Made You Think

"The Lord said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil and Nat discuss the next book on their Great Books Project: the book of Exodus. We pick up from where we left off in Genesis and dive into the many key themes of Exodus as Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt. We cover a wide range of topics including: Exodus as the origin story of Judaism Exclusionary vs. inclusionary nations  Operating systems for building a successful community Connections between the Code of Hammurabi and Exodus Early human civilizations in the 2nd millenium BC And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Cleopatra lived closer to the computer age (3:44) CrowdHealth (14:48) Babylonia (44:34) Göbekli Tepe (46:18) 2nd Millenium map (46:27) Notre Chico - Caral-Supe civilization (47:50) Easter Island heads (48:55) Angkor Wat (49:46) How Exodus revises the laws of Hammurabi (1:01:49) Books Mentioned: Epic of Gilgamesh (0:22) (Book Episode)  Genesis (0:43) (Book Episode) The Iliad (1:03) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Qur'an (1:42) (Book Episode)  The Network State (8:55) The Odyssey (24:37) (Nat's Book Notes) People Mentioned: Hammurabi (31:45) Marco Polo (50:43) Show Topics: (0:12) In today's episode, we're continuing the Great Book Series with Exodus. If you haven't checked out our previous episodes from our book list, make sure to go check out Epic of Gilgamesh and Genesis! (4:23) When reading stories that have stood the test of time, there has to be some reason for their significance. Even without the religious aspect to it, they wouldn’t have been passed along or written down if they weren’t important in some way.  (8:52) What is a nation? Some nations are very closed and exclusionary where you can’t become a member or citizen. The U.S. is a more missionary-type nation that allows people to become citizens even if they were not born here. (12:36) A more exclusionary type of nation can often lead to a higher quality of life. Conversely, if you let more people in, there would be less resources for all. An open society that is also highly supportive with enough resources, is it possible to have both?  (17:13) Genesis ends with all the sons of Israel going to Egypt and settling there, however they’re living there enslaved. God communicates to Moses to get his people out of Egypt. When we think about why the story of Exodus has persisted through the years, one of the main themes that gets discussed is the fear of God aspect that was shown to the Israelites and Egyptians through the plagues. (20:04) The 10 plagues. There were locusts, hail, and disease which were likely interconnected as one thing leads to the next. However, at this particular time there may not have been a realization that these are connected, and instead, the people saw them all as individual plagues.  (25:58) Much of the story has a narrative style until we reach the chapters stating God's law. When we go back to thinking about how this was passed down orally for potentially hundreds of years, these stories and laws may have been told differently at one point and these were the parts that settled and got written down. (31:22) The Old Testament provides a layer of ethics for others to follow, and it was a huge advancement to not take one wrongdoing and kill someone over it but rather to punish them for what it is they’ve done. If you have a society that escalates violence, it will always become more and more violent. (34:57) There’s an element of the story where God is a protector to the Israelites, and although they were enslaved in Egypt, they were ultimately able to be led out of there through Him. (37:24) Monotheism and polytheism. In the text, other gods are being referenced, and those other gods are depicted as merely false idols made up by the enemy or misinterpretations. Genesis starts with Adam and Eve, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the start of the whole world, rather just where this story and Jewish history begins. (43:05) Many developments happened in the areas of Israel, Egypt, and Babylonia around this time. It could have also been that they had the means of documenting their stories where other areas didn’t. Nat and Neil discuss these very early on civilizations and cities. (49:39) The dates and timeline of some historical events can be really surprising. It’s hard to wrap our heads around the fact that the world was way less interconnected than it is today. We live in a time where everything has already been explored and accounted for. (53:51) Western culture tends to be more isolated whereas other cultures tend to be more communal. It’s common for people who come to the US to feel lonely compared to their home country. Operating systems for building a successful community with longevity. (59:10) Kosher laws and its importance. Not all of these laws have held up today, for example not eating shell fish and pork. This was also an era before refrigeration. The language 'eye for an eye' and 'tooth for a tooth' is vastly similar to the Code of Hammurabi. Did Hammurabi come up with the idea and the surrounding areas adopted it or was it already a fairly widespread idea at the time? (1:02:16) It can be challenging to judge the intent of someone’s actions, so often times it’s judged by the outcomes of their actions. Neil gives an example. Charging and collecting interest on debts. The burden of the responsibility falls on the lender where they have to be sure they make a good decision about who they lend money to. (1:08:54) Laws are a big theme in Exodus, this includes laws on the regulation of slavery. As Moses led them out of slavery in Egypt, they provide some basic human rights for people coming out of slavery. There’s also the idea of a covenant, which is an agreement between the people and God. If you follow it, you get rewarded. If you don’t follow it, you get consequences. (1:13:18) The idea of canceling debt every 7 years in the Bible. Would that work in practice? Nat and Neil share their final thoughts on Exodus and how it compared in their minds to Genesis. (1:17:38) Thanks for listening! Next on our book list is Iliad by Homer. Make sure to stay tuned and check out our list of what's next. You can catch our previous 2 episodes of the Great Book Series here - Epic of Gilgamesh and Genesis. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Neil and Adil discuss the next book on their Great Books Project: the book of Genesis. The book begins with the story of creation and wraps up with the lives of Jacob and Joseph, with numerous stories, lessons, and genealogies in between the 50 chapters.   We cover a wide range of topics including: Science and religion: Do they conflict or complement each other? The beginning of time and formation of Earth How depictions of God, or a higher power, differ across religions The stories of Adam, Eve, Jacob, Joseph, Abraham, Isaac, and more Whether the Bible should be interpreted literally vs. allegorically And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Jordan Peterson’s Bible series (1:17) Aaron Rodgers on the Aubrey Marcus podcast (10:58) Ayahuasca (11:05) Unicellular organisms (26:32) Fermi paradox (29:59) Idiocracy (37:26) Idiocracy opening scene (37:42) Islamic attitudes towards science (39:55) Unmoved Mover (1:07:40) Watchmen (1:13:35) Books Mentioned: Epic of Gilgamesh (0:58) (Book Episode) The History of God (7:45) The Bible (Karen Armstrong) (7:49) Bhagavad Gita (19:10) (Nat's Book Notes) Rare Earth (28:04) Vehicles (31:25) East of Eden (58:30) (Nat's Book Notes) Of Mice and Men (1:00:44) The Grapes of Wrath (1:00:52) Biocentrism (1:11:16) People Mentioned: Jordan Peterson (1:14) Karen Armstrong (7:24) Nassim Taleb (41:15) Jennifer Lawrence (58:55) Steven Spielberg (59:28) John Steinbeck (1:00:30) Show Topics: 0:28 We continue the Great Book Series with the book of Genesis from the Old Testament. 3:30 Adil and Neil talk about their familiarity with Genesis before they read it for the show. The book was passed down through the oral tradition, and wasn’t written down until hundreds of years after it was spoken. It has also been translated into over 700 languages. It poses the question, who wrote down the story, and how much of it has changed being passed down orally?  7:11 Adil talks about books he has read previous to Genesis by Karen Armstrong. One thing he notes is that the Bible was not meant to be read literally. Of course, there are parts that can be taken literally, but many of the stories are allegorical and symbolic in meaning. 12:45 Jacob's story: Jacob wrestles with someone who is unnamed, though interpreted as God. At one point, they touch hips and he walks away injured, but he has that injury for the rest of his life. This story, if not taken literally, can allude to the internal scars that you have battling and wrestling with your inner demons. 14:01 The structure of Genesis. First comes the story of creation, followed by the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The term Toledot meaning “generations” or "descendants. The last section of Genesis is dedicated to Jacob, which sets up for the following book in the Bible, Exodus. 15:27 The story of Joseph and Jacob. This story resonates on a moral level with people because it serves as a reminder that the journey is just as important as the destination. Your journey may not always go as planned. Even if you have everything you want, you may still have regrets about how you got there. 19:00 Neil makes a connection to the Bhagavad Gita. One of the morals of this story is very similar. In the end, the good guys got what they wanted and won the war, but lost everything in the process. Was it worth it? It’s a similar message that Jacob’s life represents in Genesis.  20:05 The redeeming arc for Jacob came through his brother Esau and how he forgave Jacob for his wrongdoings. When they met, it may appear that Esau was upset and Jacob was ready to meet his fate, yet he ended up being forgiven. Through that forgiveness, Jacob was transformed. 23:21 We’re all on our own path to learning, both spiritually and religiously. Growing up, you tend to adopt the beliefs of your family and other surroundings. We often believe that when something isn’t completely certain, that it must be wrong. 27:16 Evolution, the beginning of time, and extraterrestrial life. When you think about how everything has been formed in a way that led to life here on earth, it’s astonishing. If the universe is indeed infinite, then it’s very possible that it lines up for other life forms to exist elsewhere, and they could exist under completely different conditions than on Earth. 31:23 Adil makes a connection to the book Vehicles. The knowledge we have isn’t always solid and requires faith to believe in.  34:10 Organized religion has tended to go with a more literal meaning, for example modern Christianity in America. One common belief is that if you’re scientific, you can't also be religious and it’s made into a dichotomy. It's possible that they can be completely aligned with each other. Both can be viewed as tools for understanding the world better, and they don’t have to necessarily be viewed as opponents. 36:03 Why do subjective experience exists? If the goal of life is just to produce offspring and continue the circle of life, why do we have this personal experience of life, and how is it beneficial? There isn’t much of a scientific explanation for it. 38:55 A lot of the early scientific research in Europe was done by religious people to prove God was real, and that aspects of religion that can be backed by science. The two stories diverged and this led to religious texts being interpreted more literally. However in other religions, Islam for example, it's typically believed that science and religion work together. 41:34 Adam and Eve story, and the significance of the serpent if you take the Bible symbolically. The snake has a unique hold in human psychology. Neil and Adil talk about different animals and how they’re perceived in different communities and religions. 46:15 Eve's name means "living" in Hebrew, but it comes from a root that can also mean "snake". There are a lot of unanswered questions that came up, and as we continue to Exodus, we may learn some of these answers to these questions. 51:20 The curses in the book of Genesis are all tied to the knowledge of self awareness and the future. Childbirth was the curse passed on to women, and even early on, women have a knowledge of the pain of it. Men have the curse of labor and work. While the benefits of knowledge and self awareness are received, this also comes with these curses. 53:00 Two main ways that God both gifted and punished His people were through fertility and land. Neil and Adil discuss the story of Abraham, Issac, and Ishmael.  1:01:33 "In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return." In Abrahamic religions (including Christianity, Islam, and Judaism), they bury their dead. In other religions, there is no burial. 1:06:33 Depictions of God in different religions. In some religions they feel a depiction of their god it’s a good way to connect, but in others it can feel alienating. 1:07:13 With each theory about how the universe was created, you can keep asking the question, "What came before that?" The infinite universe as constantly expanding and contracting. The idea of biocentrism, and how it's the observer that makes something a reality. 1:14:36 Thanks for listening! Stay tuned for our next episode on the book of Exodus, and be sure to keep following along as we work through our Great Books List.  If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“Humans are born, they live, then they die, this is the order that the gods have decreed. But until the end comes, enjoy your life, spend it in happiness, not despair. Savor your food, make each of your days a delight, bathe and anoint yourself, wear bright clothes that are sparkling clean, let music and dancing fill your house, love the child who holds you by the hand, and give your wife pleasure in your embrace. That is the best way for a man to live.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil, and Adil begin their Great Books Project starting with the oldest book on their list, Epic of Gilgamesh. This piece has been regarded as one of the oldest written stories to exist. It follows the story of Gilgamesh, who is two-thirds god and one-third man, as he searches for the secret of immortality following the death of a loved one. We cover a wide range of topics including: How written stories have been passed down through centuries Parallels between Gilgamesh and other religious texts An assortment of theories such as the flood myth and the Black Sea hypothesis Should you interpret ancient texts literally? Why not all science is necessarily good science And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.   Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: The Ancients (7:02) The Library of Alexandria (7:59) Sumerian Kings list (10:17) Images of the tablets (23:11) Flood myth (35:35) Black Sea Hypothesis (34:51) Letting children choose their diets (41:32) Masa Chips (42:11) Definition of Europe in early- to mid-antiquity (52:43) Nat's essay - Church of Science (55:04) Remote Viewing (57:22) Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab (59:16) Princeton ESP lab must have foreseen its end (59:24) Sleep paralysis (1:00:40) Books Mentioned: Theogeny (1:13) Works and Days (1:17) (Nat's Book Notes) The Iliad (1:19) (Nat's Book Notes) Tao Te Ching (1:29) The Egyptian Book of the Dead (6:41) The Three-Body Problem (8:09) (Nat's Book Notes) The Hero with a Thousand Faces (12:22) (Nat's Book Notes) The Power of Myth (12:23) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) The Denial of Death (14:24) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Socrates (21:52) (Nat's Book Notes) Magna Carta (26:02) The Prince (26:08) First Bite (39:32) People Mentioned: Confucius (1:33) Plato (21:50) Aquinas (26:15) Dante (26:16)   Show Topics: 0:05 We start the Great Book Series off with with The Epic of Gilgamesh. From order of oldest to most recent, we will be reading this list of books and creating new episodes every 3 weeks until the list is complete. Follow along, and read the books with us as we go! 5:34 This book is estimated to date back to as far as 2100 BC. With how old the writing is, it's fascinating to think about how much of the story has changed along the way from the original text. The way a culture recorded its information determines how we think about it today. In the time and location of Gilgamesh, everything was rich in clay so they used clay tablets to record everything.  8:58 With stories that are orally passed down, it's similar to a game of telephone where details get changed along the way. This leads to different areas of the world telling the same story in very different ways. 11:49 There are several themes to the story, and many of these themes and stories are told throughout history. They’re not new by any means. One of the main themes talked about in this part of the episode is immortality. 14:50 At the opening of the story, Gilgamesh is portrayed as almost villain-like. As the story goes on, he ends up redeeming himself on the journey to find immortality. In this book, even the superhuman are very humanized, and they still fall into impulses and desires that all of humanity faces. 17:48 For the stories that stand the test of time, why did they last among the potentially thousands of stories that didn't make it? Gilgamesh starts out as someone so vain with no fear of death. After experiencing a great loss, he seeks to obtain immortality, and tries to reconcile his fear of death. It’s only what you build that will outlast you. This lesson is ironic considering that this is one of the oldest books to exist and was physically written onto tablets. 21:36 How much of this story got lost? While much of the story was able to be pieced together from the Babylonian tablets, not all of the tablets have survived, and some are damaged beyond repair. 23:54 Flood story: There have been numerous flood stories from around the world. There are some parallels of Gilgamesh to the story of Noah's Ark. While some details are general, some details are extremely similar.  As Gilgamesh goes to seek immortality, he encounters a character who resembles the Biblical Noah. 30:35 With many ancient cities being located on large bodies of water, a large flood would affect them much more than we realize. Part of Rome’s advantage was being hilly so that they were able to endure catastrophic events much better in comparison to other cities near water. When stories were written thousands of years ago, we often forget to account for how their geograpical location plays out. 33:32 Flood myth, Black Sea hypothesis, and the aquatic ape hypothesis. The story of Gilgamesh and other stories in history, and understanding how the context of local geography adds to it. 37:45 If you are in tune with how your body is feeling and what it needs, would you naturally know what food and other nutrients your body needs to grow and heal? Often times the noise and busyness make it more difficult to be in tune with our mind and body.  45:24 When they found the story of Gilgamesh on the 12 tablets, it was the first time they found stories very similar in nature to the Hebrew Bible. Other parallels between Gilgamesh and religious text: a 7-year drought, and the story of Adam and Eve.  50:44 The literal interpretation of the stories in the Bible is a relatively new phenomenon. How much of it was cross-cultural influence for other religions that read their Bible completely literal? 55:02 Science can be both good and bad. Not everyone is scientifically literate, and not every study is reliable. Anything you want to prove, you can most likely find a study to prove your point, whether that scientific experiment is fully credible or not.  59:43 Sleep paralysis, dream state, and shared dreams. There are common, unusual experiences that humans have shared while sleeping, with one of those being able to see or sense a shadow being. 1:01:11 Thanks for listening! Next up on our Great Books List, we will be reading the book of Genesis, followed by Exodus. You can keep track of our list here and reach out to us if you have any suggestions.  If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“No matter what I believe to be true, there always seems to be another side to the question. If you were to put me to the torture, I’d probably confess that this is my analytic ideal: to consider the question from as many relevant perspectives as the mind can hold.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about their key takeaways from The Revolt of the Public by Martin Gurri. With technology giving us access to more information than ever, the overall trust level between the public and the governing elite is at an all time low.  We cover a wide range of topics including: The relationship between sources of information and their level of authority Nihilism resulting from a lack of trust in authority and the current system How cancel culture may keep people from taking action on their passions Power relations between the elites and the public The move from criticizing people to criticizing the systems themselves And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: NASA Begins America’s Mars Exploration Approach (30:08) Palmer Luckey - All In Summit (30:41) Anduril (30:55) Manhattan Project (33:38) IRB (34:53) Ben Shapiro’s on cancel culture (40:56) National Enquirer (42:02) Nat’s thread on taking action (43:25) Roe v Wade (48:31) Occupy movement (55:33) V for Vendetta (1:00:24) Pocket Casts (1:24:34) Stitcher (1:24:34) Books Mentioned: Revolt of the Public Seeing Like a State (0:53) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Fourth Turning (9:03) (Book Episode)  The Dictator’s Handbook (1:11:33) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Iliad (1:17:39) Chaos Monkeys (1:25:50) People Mentioned: Alex Jones (15:01) Dan Carlin (15:06) Joe Biden (19:14) Donald Trump (19:30) Joe Rogan (21:21) Elon Musk (23:44) Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (25:53) Nassim Taleb (29:56) Jason Calacanis (30:50) Neil Ferguson (38:44) Ben Shapiro (40:37) Jeff Bezos (42:00) Greg Abbott (45:30) Beto O'Rourke (52:00) Andrew Yang (52:13) (Episode #47, #48) Antonio García Martínez (1:25:50) Show Topics: 0:43 In today's episode, Nat, Neil, and Adil are discussing Revolt of the Public by Martin Gurri. This will wrap up our crypto series, and if you're interested in more like this, be sure to check out some of our previous episodes! 4:02 Adil goes over some of the core ideas of the book, with one of them being the relationship between sources of information and their authority. When there’s fewer sources of information, each source has greater authority. So if there’s only one source, they are the sole authority. There’s been an increase on news sources, and with so many sources, it opens up more opportunity for contradiction between them. 7:10 Negation; Many elections have been won by negation rather than inspiration. As we gain access to more and more information, it can become harder to trust authority. There’s a need for a new system of trust and authority to emerge that can exist within this hyper-access to information we have. 12:09 In the Choices section of the book, there were two parts: 1. What individuals can do 2. What government can do. Gurri frames our current paradigms around authority as being emergent from the Industrial Age. When the public needs answers, they turn to institutions rather than individuals. "That passive mass audience on which so many political and economic institutions depended had itself unbundled, disaggregated, fragmented into what I call vital communities: groups of wildly disparate size gathered organically around a shared interest or theme." 16:33 How can you influence people in a subtle way? Adil makes a pyramid analogy, where the elites are at the top and the public is at the bottom. The elites are interested in increasing the distance between the top and the bottom, however the author argues that in order to succeed in the age of the Revolt of the Public, you actually need to reduce that space. "The quality that sets the true elites apart – that bestows authority on their actions and expressions – isn’t power, or wealth, or education, or even peruasiveness. It’s integrity in life and work. A healthy society is one in which such exemplary types draw the public toward them purely by the force of their example. Without compulsion, ordinary persons aspire to resemble the extraordinary, not superficially but fundamentally, because they wish to partake of superior models of being or doing." In the Industrial Age, it was common to believe that politicians and CEOs were super-people, but as we got more access to information, we became more aware that people aren’t super-people, and that everyone is human. 20:46 It’s not a matter of whether elites are good or bad, there’s tradeoffs to having a society that leans more towards the elite side vs. public side.  26:37 The last chapter of the book is an updated edition, speaking on Trump and how he is in a way, the ultimate nihilistic politician. Reducing your distance from the public as a political figure helps you sell your story more. It’s also about the way that you tell your story. Failing governments vs. failing companies- What’s the difference? 32:34 Lack of big national projects in our lifetime. One big project was the Covid vaccine, but it wasn’t the government that implemented this project. 33:59 The threshold for what’s acceptable in research has changed since the 1970s, so there’s a lot of work that we wouldn’t be able to do now that may have been allowed decades ago. A lot of what politicians and other public figures do is almost immediately knowable due to technology and the speed at which news travels. A possible consequence of this could be fear of taking action. When we get to a point of wanting to take action, we may worry about things that we’ve done in the past that would be resurfaced. 40:03 Cancel culture. If you want to become a positive leader, negative things coming out can hurt you. By acknowledging your faults or even getting ahead of it, you can deflate some of the claims made. 43:04 Many people don’t take action on something that they’re passionate about. By posting about it, it takes away the felt need to act on it. It feels as if you’ve already acted on it, and the job is done. A protest may not convince people to change their mind that much, but a lot of the power comes from reminding politicians that they work for us, and also serves as a release of anger. Democracies have led to this tendency for politicians to promise more than they can deliver, and the public will vote for the politicians that promise to deliver the most, regardless of the amount of faith they have that they can execute those promises. 48:05 There’s room for either political party to step up and bridge the gap on big issues, especially with with the recent Roe v Wade decision.  53:04 Covid’s role in the Revolt of the Public. It changed our relationship with government authority. During this period of time, for many people it was the first time they really felt the presence of government in their life. 55:27 The book has a section about mass protest movements in the US and Europe. The citizens taking place in the protests are generally in the middle or upper-middle class, college-educated, and not actually the ones struggling in society.  59:10 Nihilism as a threat to democratic institutions. As institutions leak credibility and legitimacy, the blame shifts from individuals in the system (such as bad politicians and leaders) to the system. This results in lack of trust of authority, and in turn, people want to destroy everything to feel like there is progress being made in some type of way.  1:04:10 If you could implement one policy what would it be? Adil shares an idea of subsidizing exit costs from one state to another, where if someone wanted to move out of their state, they’d be provided with services and support. This would allow states to see the numbers of people staying and leaving, and there’s consequences for passing unfavorable legislature.  Nat’s idea would be to have government agencies to cut their budgets by 90% for one year. A lot of the problems that exist in our country stem from financial irresponsibility. Neil shared that he would make Congress 10x larger while making it a part time, work from home job. The number of influential people in Congress is so small that it’s easy to bribe them with their district. Initially, being a Congressman wasn’t initially a full time job, as most had other roles and they just happened to serve in Congress too. They were more in touch with how people lived. 1:15:38 Nat shares a new technique he's using to track books he reads. He jots the date that he started reading the book with some notes about what’s going on in life at the time. When finished, he will write in the book what book he’s reading next. Over the years, the books will be networked together in physical form. 1:17:12 This concludes the crypto/libertarian series on Made You Think! The next book we’re reading is The Iliad. We’re using Tommy Collison's Great Books List to guide future episodes, and we're expanding it to encompass a wider range of books. Got any suggestions of books to add? Let us know! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"Everyone should have an intense interest in what money is and how it’s manipulated by the few at the expense of the many. Money is crucial for survival. It is necessary for maintaining a free society. A healthy economy depends on it. Limiting political power is impossible without it. Sound money is essential for preventing unnecessary wars. Prosperity and peace in the long run are impossible without it."   Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil are joined by their official new co-host, Adil Majid! In today's episode, they discuss their key takeaways from End the Fed by Ron Paul, a book which explains the fundamental problems with fiat money and provides a history on banking in the US. If you've never challenged the role of the Federal Reserve, this is an episode you won't want to miss. We cover a wide range of topics including: • Currency vs. money; How are they different? • The shift in power from countries to companies • Money printing, inflation, and the fate of the US dollar • The Cantillon Effect, and who benefits the most from this • Why utility is important in the longevity of currency And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.   Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Great Books Program (2:11) Growth Machine (8:22) Audit the Fed, Sanders and Paul (10:04) Taylor Pearson - Cryptocurency and the Turkey Problem (12:28) Luna (19:45) Tether (20:08) Nat’s Tokenomics 101 (22:35)  Nat's Tokenomics 102 (22:35)  Starlink (26:46) The Tim Dillon Show (29:16) Reagan tells Soviet jokes (35:04) Flexport (36:50) Bank of North America (39:18) First Bank of the United States (39:23) Second Bank of the United States (39:24) Independent Treasury System (39:27) Jekyll Island (48:14) Cantillon Effect (49:45) Fiat money (54:28) 40% of US dollars in existence were printed in the last 12 months (59:15) Iron (1:00:12) DAI Stablecoin (1:01:11) Russia's "Gold Standard" (1:05:06) Ruble as Year’s Best-Performing Currency (1:05:10) Books Mentioned: End the Fed The Revolt of the Public (1:40) The Iliad (2:20) The Odyssey (2:21) Gödel, Escher, Bach (7:23) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order (23:08) People Mentioned: Tommy Collison (2:12) Aristotle (3:29) Seneca (3:30) (Book Episode) Douglas Hofstadter (7:21)  Bernie Sanders (10:00) Ben Bernanke (10:24) Tim Dillon (29:16) Warren Buffet (32:33) Show Topics: 0:32 We're stoked to announce that Adil Majid (who has joined us for episodes #7, #33, #34, #35, #71, #74, #75) is officially a co-host of Made You Think! Nat, Neil, and Adil talk about what's next for the podcast, and share the Great Books list that will be used to guide their book choices on future episodes. 4:01 Why some books have lasted so long, and why there are very few good philosophy books that have come out in the modern world. These old books were written over a long period of time, covering a wider span of history as compared to books written today. 8:32 The book we're discussing today is End the Fed by Ron Paul. One idea brought up in the book is auditing the Fed to see what exactly it is that the Fed is doing and where the money is going. We use the terms money and currency interchangeably but conceptually they’re different things. The U.S. dollar is not money, it is currency. 15:34 Paul makes a case that there should be a free market of currencies, and people should create currencies that compete with the dollar. This ties in well with cryptocurrency where there are numerous coins, all with different rules and tokenomics for each currency. Historically, it hasn’t always worked this way. 19:00 Creating stablecoins in crypto, they fail when they don’t have a clear and necessary utility. Many projects will create new stable coins pegged to the dollar, but unless there’s a specific market where that coin has utility, it falls out of circulation. 23:49 One interesting change that we’re living through is the shift of power from countries to companies. Because many of the big and powerful companies are in the US and tied to the US dollar, the dollar retains it value and utility. 27:19 The era that we grow up seems to play a role in how we view and trust the government, as well as our support level of major wars. When things feel the best is when the down trend begins. Likewise, the uptick begins when things are at their worst. 32:54 With a pessimistic attitude, we have to remember how resilient countries are. We also don’t have to solely rely on the government to fix the slump that we’re in, there are companies that can fix some of these issues we're facing. 38:22 What is the Fed, and what systems were there before it? There were 4 systems before: Bank of North America , First Bank of the United States, Second Bank of the United States, and the US Independent Treasury System. Adil gives a brief history of these systems and how it has led to where we are today. 45:13 When you think about different sectors of crypto, sound money is underrated in the US. Gold for example, Neil shares the significance of investing in gold in Indian culture. Rising inflation rates in the US. 48:14 Jekyll Island and the Cantillon effect. Whoever is closest to the money printer benefits the most. Some people are effected more than others by inflation. How banks benefit from inflation. 54:28 Funding war with Fiat vs. hard money. Once we had the ability to print unlimited amounts of money to fund war, we didn’t have to stop due to the economic cost of continuing as we may have had to before. 57:50 We keep having to print more and more money to get out of each economic downturn, and Paul predicts that at one point there will not be any amount of money to get us out, potentially leading to the collapse of the US dollar. What happens if or when we get to this point? 1:04:30 Hypothetically speaking, is there a way for the Fed to transition to having backing for the dollar? Does it have to collapse, and where are we in the current collapse? 1:08:54 Consumer debt crisis- if that all starts to collapse and unwind, the effects of that could be pretty devastating. Parallel economies. 1:11:43 Thanks for listening! Next episode, we will be covering The Revolt of the Public, so be sure to pick up a copy before our next episode! If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS, @adilmajid, @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“A story told by the conscious mind has a beginning, a development, and an end, but the same is not true of a dream. Its dimensions in time and space are quite different; to understand it you must examine it from every aspect-just as you may take an unknown object in your hands and turn it over and over until you are familiar with every detail of its shape.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! After years of mentioning Carl Jung and his work in previous episodes, we're excited to jump into a Jung book. Man and His Symbols  explores the subconscious mind and the symbols that are revealed to us in our dreams. Is it time for us to start paying deeper attention to the messages we receive in our dreams? We cover a wide range of topics including: How the subconscious mind communicates through symbols in dreams Your shadow side, and how to acknowledge your shadow rather than silence it The effects of different drugs on the brain Nuclear vs. communal family structures and how this has changed over time Why true control is about letting go rather than trying to maintain your control  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat and Neil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.   Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Plato's Chariot Allegory (32:27) Crows remember faces (35:04) Elephant intelligence (35:50) LSD and the Elephant (36:11) Milgram Experiment (38:50) MAPS (39:54) NASA spider experiment (40:58) Visakan Veerasamy's thread on quitting smoking (43:02) More Americans are seeking mental health treatment (53:38) Books mentioned: The Power of Myth (0:47) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) God is Dead (11:35) Switch (31:25) The Elephant in the Brain (34:05) (Nat's Book Notes) The Revolt of the Public (1:07:19) The Alchemy of Finance (1:18:45) People Mentioned: Carl Jung (0:36) Jordan Peterson (0:42) (Book Episode) Sigmund Freud (5:18) Plato (14:52) Sam Harris (19:56) Chip and Dan Heath (31:20) Mircea Eliade (33:48) (Mythic Consciousness)  Kevin Simler (34:07) Robin Hanson (34:07)  Andrew Yang (1:09:41) (Episode 47, Episode 48) George Soros (1:18:50) Show notes: 1:17 In this episode, Nat and Neil are talking about Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung. The idea of the unconscious brain is of the main themes, and while we don’t have direct access to it, dreams serve as symbols to better help us understand our unconscious.   5:11 Jung argues that the symbols we see in dreams are not universal. If the same object appears in several people’s dreams, it could be interpreted differently for each person. A lot of what makes Jung's work compelling is that he’s not trying to argue things as scientific fact. Through sufficient practice and learning what dreams can represent, you can get closer to understanding how the subconscious and unsubconscious mind interact.   9:02 Believing things empirically vs. scientifically. Jung ties religion to this idea: There are many religious symbols that we may not understand directly, but there’s an empirical reason why people believe it, even if it's not scientifically backed.    11:51 We want to feel in control and not feel like there are things beyond our control. We have thoughts, likes, and ideas that are all unique to us- where do they come from? "Many people mistakenly overestimate the role of will power and think that nothing can happen to their minds that they do not decide and intend." 15:45 There’s a rational argument brought up by Jung in the book. If dreams exist, it must have some sort of evolutionary purpose and that’s how it came to be. What is that purpose of these nighttime hallucinations? There has to be a reason why certain symbols show up for people. 19:00  We’ve lost a lot of contact with our subconscious, which could be why psychedelics are so effective. If we re-established this connection with our subconscious, there wouldn’t be such a need for pharmaceutical facilitation for this connection. 21:54 Part of why we lost touch with our subconscious could be because we have so many distractions, whether in our conscious mind or surrounding environment.  25:12 When you’re always busy, you feel like you’re in control because you feel like you’re moving forward and making progress. There’s a sense of comfort feeling like you’re in control.  29:06 The multi-part mind vs. the solo persona: How does one begin to think of their mind through a different lens? Nat makes a comparison to Switch- There’s an elephant and a rider. The elephant is the subconscious and the rider is the mind who is rational and who tries to control and direct it, but there’s only so much control you have over it. 32:47 The way we think about consciousness is a newer phenomenon than we previously thought. There also wasn’t always language to describe these ideas, so it was purely symbolic.  38:25 Science and experimentation have both changed over the decades too, with more regulations put into place now. Nat and Neil talk about the affects of different drugs on the body, as also shown in some animal experiments too. 43:40 Caffeine, tobacco, nicotine, THC, alcohol, and effects of different drugs on the brain. In some cases, the delivery of the drug (smoking or vaping, for example) ends up being more harmful to your body than the substance. 49:22 Jung talks about how we have this shadow self that makes us uncomfortable. One way to deal with our shadow side is to numb it. The solution is to “turn directly towards the approaching darkness” to find what it wants from you. It’s about how you incorporate your shadow rather than silence it or hide from it, which is not a long term solution. 53:35 Therapy has become more popular now over the years. Is there a reason for this? If you’re using therapy to work through challenges in your life, it can be very helpful. It becomes unproductive when you use it as a crutch to avoid doing the harder things you know you need to do.  57:02 Parenting and fostering independence in your child.  Remembering that raising them in the home is not forever, and after they move on from your care they will need to be able to help and support themselves in society. Nat and Neil discuss nuclear vs. communal families and how those dynamics are different. 1:03:24 The faith in governmental institutions is very low at this point in time, it brings to question how the future may change in terms of education and homeschooling. 1:08:41 The people that we respect the most are the ones who act like real humans, and this stands for politicians too. If a politician is willing to be personable and fully believes in their ideas, they tend to be more well-liked among the people. 1:12:28 Your shadow can be very powerful. Whatever you find you dislike in someone else may be what you actually dislike in yourself. Seeing it reflected in another person is painful because it reminds you of that trait in yourself. It's important to acknowledge the shadow rather than avoid it. 1:17:29 Thanks for listening! Make sure to pick up a copy of Man and His Symbols if you were intrigued by this episode. In future episodes, we plan to read End the Fed and The Revolt of the Public. Make sure to grab a copy and read up before the episode!   If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

"The despot is not a man. It is the Plan. The correct, realistic, exact plan, the one that will provide your solution once the problem has been posited clearly, in its entirety, in its indispensable harmony. This plan has been drawn up well away from the frenzy in the mayor’s office or the town hall, from the cries of the electorate or the laments of society’s victims. It has been drawn up by serene and lucid minds. It has taken account of nothing but human truths. It has ignored all current regulations, all existing usages, and channels. It has not considered whether or not it could be carried out with the constitution now in force. It is a biological creation destined for human beings and capable of realization by modern techniques."   Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil are joined by Adil Majid to discuss their key takeaways from Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott. This book discusses how states seek to make the territory more legible in order to guide its functioning. However, this planned social order often disregards vital features of any real, functioning social order. How do certain schemes to improve the human condition end up failing?   We cover a wide range of topics including: Government’s desire for legibility vs. local control and power Infinite coastline paradox The importance of feedback loops and adaptability in a system How high modernism has been implemented and why those implementations have failed Connections between the book and cryptocurrency   And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.   Links from the Episode:   Mentioned in the show: High modernism (5:58) Window tax (20:25) The Blind Cafe - San Francisco (35:32) The Infinite Coastline (43:22) Rise Roar Revolt (1:07:14) India’s Economy Hinges on the Return of Workers Who Fled to Their Villages (1:14:58) Stepn (1:31:38) Will STEPN Bring Crypto to the Masses? (1:36:23) Slate Star Codex Book Review (1:40:57)  A Big Little Idea Called Legibility (1:42:25) The Intellectual Yet Idiot (1:42:36) Books Mentioned: Seeing Like a State Extreme Ownership (22:31) (Nat’s Book Notes) Scale (23:19) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Four Thousand Weeks (37:47) Merchants of Doubt (49:49) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Fourth Turning (1:08:55) (Book Episode)  The Dictator’s Handbook (1:20:43) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) The Conscience of a Conservative (1:39:43) People Mentioned: Nassim Taleb (9:06) Jocko Willink (22:32) Geoffrey West (23:19) Arthur Hayes (1:26:28) Barry Goldwater (1:39:44)   Show Topics: 1:04 Today we’re joined by Adil Majid (previously in episodes #7, #33, #34, #35, #71, #74) to cover Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott. There’s often an assumption that it’s the fault of the people when planned systems fail, when really it’s the fault of the governing body implementing these rigid systems.   5:58 There are a few major concepts in the book. One of these main concepts is legibility. A state needs to understand what’s happening on the ground and also needs a way to measure it. Scientific forestry as a way to produce timber more efficiently.   11:56 “Thus, plants that are valued become "crops," the species that compete with them are stigmatized as "weeds," and the insects that ingest them are stigmatized as "pests."”    Scott argues that there’s more variables than any of the high modernists can understand. A high modernist cannot acknowledge that there are more variables than they know, and that they are not in full control of those variables. You can’t adjust one variable and be able to fully predict all the effects.   15:01 One of the mistakes of the high modernist desire for legibility is confusing the visual external order with internal underlying order and structure. Things can have a deep sensible underlying order that doesn’t make sense from the outside. Trees as an example; The distribution of roots, stems, and leaves is efficient in capturing light and water but if a human designed a tree, it may look real different. This same idea can be applied to cities.   17:10 The systemization of last names.    19:48 There are consequences of implementing these rigid systems. Many times, the systems put in place end up changing the exact thing that they’re supposed to regulate.    21:31 The government uses legibility to make things easier to understand, and it’s how they gain control. The amount of control you have can depend on how many levels are within your system. This ties into Extreme Ownership where the military has different levels of hierarchy, but on the ground, you get a lot of individual freedom to execute the mission. If you try to maintain strict order all the way down, things can go poorly. If you allow things to spread out and have variation at the ends, the system tends to be more resilient.   25:11 Authoritarianism is high modernism without feedback loops and democracy is high modernism with feedback loops. Adil describes metis (local knowledge) and techne (mathematical absolute truths). Things naturally float to the top, and you have to fight to keep the local knowledge at the local level.   29:10 High modernism is suitable for techne. You need to have these slightly chaotic systems where you can experiment and fail in order to better develop. The beauty of the local knowledge is that it’s experimental. Feedback loops and being able to adapt.   34:11 How did our five senses evolve to be the way they are? Our visual life is very stimulating. We lock on to things that are bright, surprising, fast-paced. Screens give us so much of that novelty that other things can appear boring to look at.   39:18 The book talks about grouping people, and they lose their individual characteristics by being dropped in the buckets based on non-representative characteristics. The map vs. the terrain.   43:08 The infinite coastline. The more you zoom into it, the more you have to add variations which makes it longer and longer. Theoretically as you zoom into something so deeply, you have an infinitely long coastline. Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss: What are the implications of higher fidelity?   46:30 High modernism works if you can convince people it’s the best way forward. The element of authoritarianism; the more you try to force people to go along with an idea the more negative pushback you’ll get. The recycling and no smoking movements.   51:37 Complex systems can get wrecked by very small changes. Some systems need every moving part in order to run efficiently, and just the absence of one part can throw the system for a loop.    55:22 Adding chips to farm equipment. What was the efficiency improvement? These highly industrialized systems can be good at increasing output, but one little ding in the system and it can fall apart.   1:03:45 India and their legibility efforts. Neil talks about the national ID card for banking and other purposes. A lot of underground stuff goes on in order for people to avoid getting their ID card. The government has gone as far as banning the largest paper currency note overnight and issuing a new one in hopes to get people to go to a bank to switch it or deposit it.    1:08:58 Would India be a country if the British had never come there? India was originally made up of hundreds of individual states, so there are many regional identities still today.   1:11:17 National languages and global languages: How do they come to be, and is it even possible to change them now that they're established?   1:14:48 During Covid, people in India who moved to cities for jobs ended up moving back to their villages as the cost of living wasn’t worth it. Within the village is their support system. This move from a legible system back to an illegible system is a good thing for the individual, but not necessarily for a government that wants more legibility.   1:17:27 Nat summarizes the core ideas of the book. Highly authoritarian states such as China and North Korea and censorship on the internet. How North Korea has been so authoritarian for so long and has been able to keep it that way.   1:21:35 Work-to-rule: This is where employees do just the minimum that is required from them and follow all regulation and safety guidelines. This in turn can lead to a decrease in productivity as workers are no longer working during weekends, breaks, etc.    1:23:31 How does this book tie back into crypto? A lot of the early crypto crowd is inherently anti-legibility.    1:32:42 Stepn is a lifestyle app that encourages its users to “move-to-earn”. Nat shares 3 ways you can tell that it’s time to exit the project so you don’t lose your investment.    1:39:20 Thanks for listening! Got any book suggestions for a future episode? Hit us up on Twitter!   If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“A Fourth Turning lends people of all ages what is literally a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to heal (or destroy) the very heart of the republic.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil are joined by Adil Majid to discuss their key takeaways from The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe. The authors uncover how history moves in cycles, or "turnings", and how our past could very well predict our future. This episode will challenge the way you have traditionally thought of time as linear, and open your eyes to cycles that are much bigger than ourselves. We cover a wide range of topics including: What is a turning, and how does each generation influence the next turning? Gold, Bitcoin, and inflation of the US Dollar The possibility of parallel systems Current events that may be leading us to the climax of the crisis era The four themes (High, Awakening, Unraveling, and Crisis) and the ways they have tied in to the events of American history And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat, Neil, and Adil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Athletic Greens (1:41) Major brands freeze Youtube ads (2:15) Blinkist (2:48) Oatly: The New Coke (3:25) Bankless (5:09) Martyrmade Podcast: Thoughts on Ukraine (47:05) China and Taiwan conflict (50:14) SNL Skit: Republican or Not (1:06:19) SNL Skit: Black Jeopardy with Tom Hanks (1:06:39) The Political Compass (1:08:40) Balaji Srinivasan on Communist Capital vs. Woke Capital vs. Crypto Capital (1:09:59) Full Send Podcast with Donald Trump (1:15:34) Man enters White House with knife (1:22:56) "I support the current thing" Meme (1:25:32) What You Didn’t Know About the Apollo 11 Mission (1:28:54) Operation Warp Speed (1:32:00) Cases of Polio-like Symptoms in the Bay Area (1:35:07) Dalio's Long-Term Debt Cycle (1:38:32) Episode 7: A Crash Course in Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cryptocurrency (1:40:12)   Books Mentioned: The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe Dictator’s Handbook (4:23) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Sovereign Individual (6:15) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) King, Warrior, Magician, Lover (32:14) (Book Episode) The Mandibles (43:14) Seeing Like A State (54:15) (Nat’s Book Notes) Demon in the Freezer (1:30:48) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1:37:35) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Alchemy of Finance (1:39:13) Denial of Death (1:40:21) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Scale (1:40:35) (Book Episode) (Nat’s Book Notes) Sapiens (1:40:40) (Book Episode 1) (Sapiens Episode 2) (Nat's Book Notes) Homo Deus (1:40:40) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes)   People Mentioned: Neil Howe William Strauss Ray Dalio (45:36) Lyn Alden (51:04) Joe Rogan (1:14:05) Steve Bannon (1:35:35)   Show Topics 0:19 Adil Majid joins the podcast today to help Nat and Neil break down The Fourth Turning by and William Strauss Neil Howe. You may remember him from some of our previous episodes (#7, #33, #34, #35, #71), so go check those out if you haven't already! 4:39 The Fourth Turning was written around the same time as Sovereign Individual, and shares some connections as both books discuss adapting to the next phase or cycle in civilization. 9:18 The four turnings: "The High", "The Awakening", "The Unraveling" and "The Crisis". The current cycle, also known as "The Crisis", would have started around 2005, and may go on until around 2026. These turnings are such a zoomed out way of looking at periods of time, and most people that are living have not been around long enough to experience each turning. "Over the millennia, man has developed three ways of thinking about time: chaotic, cyclical, and linear. The first was the dominant view of primitive man, the second of ancient and traditional civilizations, and the third of the modern West, especially America.” 14:51 Neil talks about some of the bigger, zoomed out cycles such as the ice age cycles and climate cycles. We only see the micro-cycles because that’s our perspective on time. 15:40 In some religions such as Christianity, time is thought of as linear. Rather than accepting the cycles and seasons of the year and time, we try to fight them to create this linear constancy, because that's what we are familiar with and what we can see. 17:50 Trends in substance abuse and alcohol. The way that our parents' and grandparents’ generations treated alcohol is much different than how the younger generation treats it. This brings us to the four archetypes discussed in the book: Prophets, Nomads, Heroes, and Artists. Prophets give birth to Heroes, and vice versa while Nomads give birth to Artists, and vice versa. In theory, this will determine your archetypal behavior. 24:17 The turnings tie into the generations. As one comes of age, they influence the next turning. Based on the timeline from the book, we’ve all been in a Crisis era for most of our adult lives (if you’re around 30). What does it mean now that we’re within a few years of coming out of this period of crisis? 26:06 The "High" occurred post World War 2, between 1946-1964. This period of time was big on collectivism and community. It was not a High for everyone, however, as this was before the civil rights movement and the women’s suffrage movement. After WW2, people began creating a better life and enjoying the high after surviving the war. Their children grew up in a time of abundance, but the abundance wasn’t experienced by everyone, and this led to different civil movements as they entered the period of Awakening. 30:55 Between the Awakening and the Unraveling is a long period of decline. The Awakening is a period of challenging the morals of the previous generation, and the Unraveling is putting those things into practice. From there, it then leads to the period of Crisis. 34:36 We see this conflict today where older Gen Z and Millennials are growing up with student loan debt.  The previous generation grew up in a period of abundance off the High of post WW2, which paved the way for that generation to live a comfortable life. 38:28 Where did the Crisis start? Nat, Neil, and Adil discuss several events such as 9/11, the Iraq war, and the 2007 financial crisis that may be marked as the start of the Crisis. 45:26 Not every Fourth Turning has to end in war, but every previous one has ended in a war, thus why the conflict in Russia/Ukraine is so notable, as well as conflict between China and Taiwan. 50:33 Gold, Bitcoin, and inflation. Which country could tip the scale?  55:03 Preparing for the Fourth Turning. Neil makes a connection to The Mandibles, where if the Government ever decides to cease wealth or shut down the stock market, the value that we currently hold in the market will decrease significantly, although we may have thought it was safe.  “Really know where your money is.” 1:00:28 Adil describes the technological arms race that’s happening. Ideas shifting in political parties even within the past decade.  1:09:55 Woke capital, communist capital, and crypto capital. Is there a possibility for parallel systems where one area of the country/world may align with one ideology and another area aligns with another approach? The Internet, as an example. 1:16:59 Another symptom of the crisis mentality is mistrust of organizations that were typically trusted by previous generations. 1:21:09 The storming of the Capital on January 6th. This had the potential to be a climax moment, but didn’t end up turning into something massive. 1:25:29 This year's Oscars brought a shared moment between everyone. Most things you see in the media will produce two total opposite reactions, whereas in this particular moment, the experience and reaction was very much the same across the board. These shared moments create a sense of unity. 1:35:16 This book is controversial, partly because the concepts in this book are hard to prove as factual. It’s comfortable to think we have everything figured out, without challenging anything or institutions. 1:38:41 Thanks for listening! Make sure to grab a copy of the next book we will be covering, Man and His Symbols by Carl Jung. Stay tuned, as Adil will be back for another future episode where we discuss Seeing Like A State.   If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“The man who is striving to solve a problem defined by existing knowledge and technique is not, however, just looking around. He knows what he wants to achieve, and he designs his instruments and directs his thoughts accordingly. Unanticipated novelty, the new discovery, can emerge only to the extent that his anticipations about nature and his instruments prove wrong. . . . There is no other effective way in which discoveries might be generated.” Welcome back to another episode of Made You Think! In this episode, Nat and Neil discuss their key takeaways from The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn. While the book is geared towards an academic audience, a lot of interesting ideas were brought up in terms of scientific progress, where Kuhn argues that science is anything but linear.  We cover a wide range of topics including:  Paradigm shifts in science (and other areas, too!) What is normal science, and how does it differ from paradigm-shifting science? Connections between science, religion, and politics The direction and timing of inventions over time How sciencing everything may lead to negative outcomes  And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat and Neil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode. Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the show: Copernican system (11:20) Monday Medley (11:56) The Joe Rogan Experience (18:03) Nat’s SS and Medicare tweet (20:50) Burton Oil (29:24) Neil’s tweet on rationalists (35:20) Dancing Gorilla experiment (47:07) Bobbie formula (53:15) Obesity rates in Mexico (57:34)  WTF Happened in 1971? (58:22) Metamask (1:00:28) Rainbow Wallet (1:00:29) Outside the System (1:03:46) (Check out Neil's new podcast!) Fountain (1:03:50) Lightning Network (1:04:30) What Viagra was originally used for (1:10:56) Tesla's vision of wireless energy (1:15:21)  Riverside (1:23:40) Books Mentioned: The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (Nat's Book Notes) Gödel, Escher, Bach (0:58) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Finite and Infinite Games (3:23) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Happy Accidents (3:37) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) King, Warrior, Magician, Lover (28:53) (Book Episode)  The Dictator’s Handbook (41:03) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Merchants of Doubt (41:56) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Energy and Civilization (42:56) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) The Three-Body Problem (1:20:50) (Nat's Book Notes) The Martian (1:21:21) (Nat's Book Notes) Hail Mary (1:21:27)  Seeing Like a State (1:24:19) (Nat's Book Notes) Infinite Jest (1:24:44) (Book Episode I) (Book Episode II) (Nat's Book Notes) People Mentioned: Malcolm Gladwell (2:35) Albert Einstein (6:45) Isaac Newton (14:53) Nicolaus Copernicus (14:53) Werner Heisenburg (14:56) Nassim Taleb (24:44) Al Gore (28:36) George Bush (28:39) Joe Biden (28:56) Nikola Tesla (1:14:59) Andy Weir (1:21:23) Adil Majid (1:24:12) Show Topics: 0:43 Today, Nat and Neil dive into their takeaways from The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn. The phrase "paradigm shift" was coined by Thomas Kuhn and used throughout the book to describe fundamental changes in underlying assumptions.  4:47 Kuhn argues that science doesn’t progress linearly, it goes through cycles. There are foundational truths and beliefs that current science is being built on, and when those beliefs crack, we have to establish new ones. It doesn’t mean the old ideas were unscientific, but perhaps insufficient or incomplete. 8:01 Neil applies the 'map vs. territory' analogy. Territory is the real natural world, and every theory and paradigm we test out is the map.  11:54 The book talks about normal science as trying to solve a puzzle. When you buy a jigsaw puzzle, you know what the picture looks like and that all pieces will fit together somehow. In the same way, theories of experiments have already predicted what the results of your experiment should be, you’re just running the experiment to confirm it. Paradigm shifts are so rare and accidental because most of science is filling in gaps of the current paradigm, as that's also where the funding is. "The scientific enterprise as a whole does from time to time prove useful, open up new territory, display order, and test long-accepted belief. Nevertheless, the individual engaged on a normal research problem is almost never doing any one of these things." 15:20 What are the things in science today that feel like they might be invented to explain the anomalies in the current paradigm? Dark matter and gravity for example. 17:59 There aren’t enough debates on science, and it’s important to ask the question WHY to better understand the underlying assumptions. If you disagree with one of the provided assumptions, you can challenge it.  22:09 The book explains how science is an ever-evolving process that requires challenging the current assumptions in the paradigm. Asking questions is the scientific thing to do. We can have conflicting paradigms and ideas, and use those to get an accurate view of the world, but obviously nothing is perfect.  25:50 Over time, science has become more politicized. Global warming rebranded into climate change. 30:31 Most issues are never completely binary like they're positioned to be. The abortion debate  for example. There are 2 different paradigms with completely different underlying assumptions: 1) Individual choice is more important than when life begins and 2) Life begins at conception and it’s not an individual choice type of thing.  35:03 Every choice has a tradeoff. One problem in politics is when candidates aren’t upfront about the tradeoffs of a certain choice or pretend that there isn’t any, which makes it harder to believe them. Nat and Neil talk about the start of Covid with the stay-at-home orders and wearing a mask. 39:08 Linking to Dictator’s Handbook (episode here), it is advantageous for politicians to say problems are more urgent and pressing than they are because you can use that to retain power and influence. 43:41 Differences in generations and the trust in scientists. Younger generations are starting to suffer the consequences of explorations like combining science with food. Does science need to be added to everything? 46:41 People find what they’re looking for. If you go in with a set of beliefs, you won’t be looking for anything that confirms against your beliefs, in fact you may discard anything that argues against what you think is right without acknowledging the other set of values. 51:20 What's a Made You Think episode without a tangent? Nat and Neil talk about the vaccine/Autism debate. With dietary changes and other factors in the first year of a child’s life, why are some scientists so set on vaccines being connected to Autism? 58:22 Paradigm shifts aren’t in science only. Nat and Neil talk about paradigm shifts in technology, Web3, single sign-on, and more. 1:05:29 A new paradigm of community ownership, fundraising, and access to capital arose as NFTs became bigger. There are now new standards for membership, and how we can own music, art, etc. 1:07:05 Paradigms are like little blips on the map, and occasionally one will present a lot of solutions to existing problems. The same things happens in both science and technology. 1:11:46 Normal science vs. paradigm-shifting science. What would have been figured out anyway vs. what was truly a leap forward. 1:14:44 The direction and timing of different inventions. There are some things that develop slowly for years but then have a period of rapid development because the underlying technology catches up. Are there things that we are technologically ready for now but just haven't come up with yet? 1:19:28 Inversely, there are also inventions where the timing wasn’t dependent on the underlying technology. 1:23:30 Thanks for listening! If you want to read ahead before our next episode, make sure to pick up a copy of The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We’ll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!

“It can be said that life's perhaps most fundamental dynamic is the attempt to move from a lower form of experience and consciousness to a higher (or deeper) level of consciousness.” In this episode of Made You Think, Nat and Neil discuss their key takeaways from King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette. This book presents the 4 archetypes of manhood, and explores what undeveloped masculinity looks like in the form of the archetype Shadows. In this episode of Made You Think, we cover a wide range of topics including: The differences in Male vs. Female adulthood initiation King and Tyrant energy in politicians The rise in adult male virginity in the past decade The Shadows of each of the 4 archetypes Underdeveloped masculinity (Otherwise known as Boy psychology) And much more. Please enjoy, and make sure to follow Nat and Neil on Twitter and share your thoughts on the episode.   Links from the Episode: Mentioned in the Show: Maasai Ritual (15:59) The Business of Being Born (30:53) Tonic Masculinity - Dr. Cam Sepah (42:03) Manager vs. Leader (47:15) Warrior Genes (59:18) Adult male virginity stats (1:08:40) Filtering by height on Bumble (1:09:21) FDA tweet on national cereal day(1:14:21) Colin Powell's 40-70 rule (1:40:53) OKCupid blog archive (1:47:14) SolPay (1:50:15) Books Mentioned: King, Warrior, Magician, Lover The Way of the Superior Man (1:07) (Nat's Book Notes) 12 Rules for Life (1:57) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) The Laws of Human Nature (2:10) (Book Episode)  Man and His Symbols (2:14) The Fourth Turning (11:09) The Power of Myth (15:10) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Escape from Freedom (22:13) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) The Dictator’s Handbook (57:01) (Book Episode) (Nat's Book Notes) Mate (1:06:06) (Nat's Book Notes) Models (1:06:08) (Nat's Book Notes) What Got You Here Won’t Get You There (1:17:08) Extreme Ownership (1:23:48) (Nat's Book Notes) The Alchemy of Finance (1:39:20) Flow (1:43:43) Thinking, Fast and Slow (1:44:23) Layered Money (1:53:46)   People Mentioned: David Deida (1:09) Joseph Campbell (2:01) Robert Greene (2:07) Carl Jung (2:14) Paul Millerd (2:34) Robert Moore (5:17) Douglas Gillette (5:17) Tucker Max (31:00) Dr. Cam Sepah (42:01)  Jordan Peterson (52:44) NLE Choppa (1:05:49) Mark Manson (1:06:08)  James Altucher (1:28:05) Tony Robbins (1:29:47)   Show Topics: 0:30 In today's episode, Nat and Neil cover the book King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by Robert Moore and Douglas Gillette. This is the first book episode since Episode 66 with just Nat and Neil (featuring pop-ins from Pepper and Baby Eliason!). 5:12 King, Warrior, Magician, Lover provides a blend of psychology and ancient tradition. Moore and Gillette define four male archetypes that stand out through history, as well as the shadow forms of each of the archetypes. 7:52 Masculinity doesn’t mean these ideas are just for men; it’s a spectrum. It's just as beneficial for women to know and understand these archetypes and their shadows, too. 10:15 Knowing all forms of these archetypes, including the shadow form, can allow you to better adapt as an adult. The book's definition of patriarchy: "In our view, patriarchy is not the expression of deep and rooted masculinity, for truly deep and rooted masculinity is not abusive. Patriarchy is the expression of the immature masculine. It is the expression of Boy psychology, and, in part, the shadow—or crazy—side of masculinity. It expresses the stunted masculine, fixated at immature levels." 14:12 Boy psychology. A lot of what may be considered toxic masculinity today is what the book would call underdeveloped masculinity, or Boy psychology. Today, there seems to be a lack of societal rituals or clear transitions that take you from your boy stage to your man stage. In essence, your Boy ego has to die for your Adult ego to be created, it's not clear where that happens. 18:57 During your teenage years, you’re somewhat psychologically competent to be an adult, but with so many restrictions on schooling, parenting, etc. it doesn't allow a lot of freedom to explore independence. It also creates a household struggle because there’s not much externally to struggle against. If you’re not being psychologically stimulated and challenged outside of the home, you may create that challenge in the form of conflict within your home. For many, the desire for challenge and quest is met through sports or other extra curricular activities. 22:04 School doesn’t solve this desire for challenge, it may arguably make it worse. The struggle teens face with school isn’t a struggle that is meaningful or fulfilling. In school, your work is mainly about following a rubric or certain criteria, which limits creativity and fits students into a box. It’s not until college where young adults are given more autonomy and responsibility. Even then, many students still fit themselves into the box that they think they’re supposed to be in. 27:51 The difference between male adulthood initiation and female adulthood initiation. There are completely different experiences between men and women who become first-time parents, because women are the ones carrying the baby and experiencing all that comes with it. 30:30 It can be argued that in some ways, modernity is destroying the womanhood initiation ritual around giving birth. The birthing industry in hospitals isn’t designed around creating the best experience for the mother or retaining the sacredness of the experience. 36:38 Being more aware of environmental factors, diet, sunlight risks, etc. once you’re a parent. 40:22 "They are all boys pretending to be men. They got that way honestly, because nobody showed them what a mature man is like. Their kind of “manhood” is a pretense to manhood that goes largely undetected as such by most of us. We are continually mistaking this man’s controlling, threatening, and hostile behaviors for strength. In reality, he is showing an underlying extreme vulnerability and weakness, the vulnerability of the wounded boy." This quote gives insight on the wounded boy mentality, similar to what Nat and Neil reference a high-chair tyrant. 42:44 Nat and Neil introduce the 4 archetypes: King, Warrior, Magician and Lover.  King energy in many ways is father energy. Being a good King isn’t about being a ruler, it’s about being a good leader and being able to provide strength and security. Kids want a noble father figure to look up to in order to see a sense of security and leadership. When they don’t have that, they don’t feel as secure within the family unit.  47:49 King energy is feeling present, centered, and in control. The inverse of King is similar to a Tyrant, who is never satisfied. The Tyrant is always looking for more material things, more work, and worries nonstop. 51:48 We all have King energy in us, and when you don’t think you can rely on your own King energy, you form a dependency on someone else for that security instead. As a child, your father should be the source of the King energy, and manhood is when you begin develop your own King energy internally. 54:01 King energy in politics. On some level, the sense of hopelessness as civilians may come from a lack of King energy in politicians. Not many leaders are strong in their sense of King energy, but many give the Tyrant energy. King energy in political leaders fosters a sense of security and hope. 58:25 Warrior energy. Warrior instinct is a part of us in our psychology. You need to embrace your Warrior energy so the shadow side isn't manifested. Nat and Neil talk about warrior genes. How to channel your Warrior energy for good uses.  1:02:08 How do you measure if you’re the best you can be? It’s hard to test that. There's physical combat, physical challenges, intellectual challenges, but there’s not much else to accurately measure this. If you have weak Warrior energy, everything is happening to you and you feel like nothing ever goes right. With positive Warrior energy, you’re in control and choosing your fate. "The warrior is always alert. He is always awake. He is never sleeping through life. He knows how to focus his mind and his body. He is what the samurai called “mindful.” He is a “hunter” in the Native American tradition." 1:06:05 The choice of letting a situation or environment rule you can evoke the shadow version of these archetypes. Inversely, if you maintain control of your situation, you can harness the proactive and positive versions of these personalities. Sometimes you have to do what’s hard to live a fuller life, and not settle for the easier choices that end up being unhealthy for you. 1:08:32 The rise in male virginity, especially since 2008. Is it due to dating apps and advance in technology? 1:15:04 Shadow Warrior energy can appear similar to an obsessive-compulsive personality. This is where  you overcommit and take on too many challenges. The compulsive personality digs in and works harder rather than taking a step back when faced with danger signs. The healthy Warrior knows what to destroy in order to create. 1:20:16 Magician archetype: There’s a duality in the Magician and Warrior archetypes because the Warrior is the one who acts and implements while the Magician is the thinker and the planner. It pays to have a healthy balance of both archetypes. 1:23:45 A good leader is able to step back and observe so the best decisions can be made. If you’re too high on Warrior energy without the Magician energy, you may be doing too much action with little to no thought. And vice versa.  1:27:02 Using access to special knowledge for selfish purposes or for power, similar to negative gurus with overpriced content.  1:34:25 The Manipulator is the shadow side of the Magician. They always seek to control their experience and how others perceive them. “Whenever we are detached, unrelated, and withholding what we know could help others, whenever we use our knowledge as a weapon to belittle and control others or to bolster our status or wealth at others’ expense, we are identified with the Shadow Magician as Manipulator. We are doing black magic, damaging ourselves as well as those who could benefit from our wisdom.” 1:37:29 Lover archetype, perhaps the most spiritual one. The Lover is very creative, and is in touch with their premonitions or intuitions about people, situations, or their future. 1:40:53 A lot of people want to have 100% of the information before making a decision, but it can take too long to have all of the information. If you have 40-70% of the information needed to make a decision you should make the decision. Any less than that, you may not make a good choice. 1:44:48 The Addict is the inverse to the Lover. The Addict rides on the ultimate and continuous high, adventure to adventure. Addictive behavior. 1:48:21 Thanks for listening! If you want to read ahead before our next episode, make sure to pick up a copy of The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a review on iTunes and tell a friend. As always, let us know if you have any book recommendations! You can say hi to us on Twitter @TheRealNeilS and @nateliason and share your thoughts on this episode. You can now support Made You Think using the Value-for-Value feature of Podcasting 2.0. This means you can directly tip the co-hosts in BTC with minimal transaction fees. To get started, simply download a podcast app (like Fountain or Breez) that supports Value-for-Value and send some BTC to your in-app wallet. You can then use that to support shows who have opted-in, including Made You Think! We'll be going with this direct support model moving forward, rather than ads. Thanks for listening. See you next time!