Ask David What do you do when someone won’t stop asking questions? Hello David, It’s been a while since I’ve emailed you, but that’s because I’ve been doing really well thanks to you! I started a new job 3-1/2 months ago, & this woman seemed to take to me right from the start. It was nice at first having someone to talk to etc, but it has quickly turned bad. She sits in the cubicle right next to me. All day long she talks to me asking me questions. What did I do after work? Who was I with? How long was I gone? What did my husband do? And on & on. It feels like she’s interrogating me because the questions never stop. I’m trying to get more vague with my answers hoping if will deter the conversation, but no luck. It really becomes distracting at times & then other times it just feels like she’s being nosy & freaks me out. I just want her to leave me alone! I think this would be a good opportunity to use the 5 secrets of effective communication, but I’m struggling. Could you help? Thank you, Brittany Hi Brittany, Will send to Rhonda for an Ask David. But a simple approach would be to tell her that you admire her and appreciate her interest, but that you sometimes find the questions distracting from doing your work. Perhaps you could sit down with her for lunch or something, and then use your five secrets skills. Using the relationship journal, you could write down one thing she said to you, and exactly what you said next. Then we can see exactly what you are doing that is fueling the problem! I've attached one, and you could send it to us after you have completed Steps 1 and 2. David Thank you for the reply! It really made my day. I attached the relationship journal. It was actually more helpful than I thought it would be for this situation. Once I was able to think of a good example, I realized that maybe my lack of inquiry or showing interest in her is causing her to ask me all these questions. Although if I ask her more about herself, I don't know if it would result in her talking even more? Hard to say. Thanks for your help, and I appreciate your thoughts on my relationship journal. -Brittany Hello, Wanted to give you an update on how it went using the five secrets. First thing Monday morning my coworker started right up with the questions. I used the five secrets & said something similar to what I wrote to you. She apologized for bothering me, & things have been great all week! She actually brought in headphones & has been listening to music now. And there’s no tension or animosity between us which was my fear initially. We still chat here & there & are friendly. Thanks again! -Brittany How can a pastoral counselor get training in TEAM-CBT? Dear Doctor David, I am a pastor from South Africa, married to an Australian, living in Dubai :) I was struggling with mild depression & came across your book "feeling good" and read it & applied all your techniques & it has been life-changing - THANK YOU! What surprised me most was the simplicity and effectiveness of the exercises. I believe that much of what you teach is life skills everyone should have! I wish I was taught these things when I was younger! Over the years I have helped people, from all walks of life - inmates, students, business people, etc., but primarily from a spiritual perspective. I believe I can be more effective and help so many more out there if I learn how to apply your exercises to others. I would love to train in TEAM and learn how to apply these techniques with the people I minister to, but I am not a psychologist or certified as per your requirements. I realize practice and critical feedback is paramount in order to get really good in TEAM. Please advise me on an alternative route. Any help with this regard would be highly appreciated! Thanking you in advance. Yours sincerely, Gareth Noble Hi Pastor Noble, Sure there is a certification program at the Feeling Good Institute. I believe pastoral counselors would be very welcome. They offer many online introductory classes in TEAM-CBT. Check our my free weekly Feeling Good Podcasts, too. I will include your question, with your permission, on an Ask David Podcast. I also offer a free depression class on my website, and about to post an anxiety class too, also free. There are tons of resources, almost all free, on my website, www.feelinggood.com. You can check out my website page from time to time for online workshops. Dr. Angela Krumm angela@feelinggoodinstitute.com is head of the certification program at FGI, which is www.feelinggoodinstitute.com. Angela and I are both PKs (Pastor’s kids)! All the best, David Is love an adult human need? Rhonda said that people in the TEAM certification listserve thought they heard David say that love is not an adult human need. Is this true? David comments on hearing Dr. Beck say that decades ago, in one of Dr. Beck’s weekly training groups at U. Penn, and what he (David) discovered. What’s the best training program to learn TEAM-CBT? David and Rhonda, I hope this note finds you well. I'm writing for a few reasons. The first is to thank you for your podcast and related resources. I found your podcast and started listening at the beginning of COVID-19 (mid-March) because I was feeling acute anxiety. The T.E.A.M. approach and your teaching are such an amazing gifts. The positive reframing in particular is truly life changing and revolutionary for me. Considering what my negative thoughts show about me that's positive and awesome and then finding the cognitive distortions has provided me such relief. I have been so excited about T.E.A.M. therapy that I often discuss it with my husband, friends, and family. I really loved David's comment in the most recent podcast that good therapy isn't evangelizing; rather it's letting the patient define problems and goals within his/her own values. I also liked your comment that doing therapy well is like an artform or a dance- that's such a beautiful sentiment, and I've been able to see the conversational "dances" you perform in the amazing, transformative, empathic live therapy sessions with Michael, Rhonda, Sarah, and others. These sessions have often brought tears to my eyes. This brings me to my second reason for writing. Listening to the podcast has been transformative for me in another way- it's made me seriously consider becoming a therapist myself. I have considered this possibility over the years, but now that I'm familiar with the T.E.A.M therapy approach and can see how helpful it is, I'm excited to explore this path more. I have a B.A. in psychology so I would need additional education- do you have suggestions for masters programs that you think would provide good alignment with the T.E.A.M. approach? I live in Charlottesville, Virginia and have two young children, so a local or online program may be the best bet for me. Thanks in advance for any ideas you may have. All the best to you, Molly Hurt Thanks, Molly. We can read your wonderful email on an Ask David if that is okay with you, but here is the quick answer. In graduate school, you don’t typically learn much that is useful. It is more getting a license to practice, then you learn from mentors, workshops, etc. The FeelingGoodInstitute.com has training and certification programs, including 12 week beginner classes in TEAM that are excellent. The whole area of coaching is emerging now too, and the certification is rather informal. If you get a degree like a masters degree in social work online, and then get licensed to do therapy, that is one approach, but there are many ways to get certified—counselor, psy d degree, marriage and family therapy, and so forth. So in short, I would, personally, find some way—the easiest way—to get certified so you can legally do therapy. But concentrate on learning TEAM as the tool to use. In California, as an aside, anyone can call themselves a “psychotherapist,” but you need the degree and license to call yourself a “psychologist.” Good luck, and thanks again! david Why are should statements considered distortions? Thanks for your quick and helpful reply. It's useful to have a better sense for how to prioritize my time and training. I'm excited to continue to explore T.E.A.M. therapy! And you are welcome to read my email on the podcast, thanks for asking. If I may, one other question for you: how do you recommend someone defeat "should" statements when his/her behaviors aren't healthy or beneficial? For example, "I should not overeat when anxious" or "I should not procrastinate" or "I should not be impatient with my daughter." I understand that saying "should" in these cases adds pressure and can lead to shame, but I don't see the distortion in these statements. In other words, these statements may not be helpful to a patient, but how are they not 100% true? I would appreciate any additional guidance you can offer on what I find to be the most difficult cognitive distortion! Thanks again to both of you for generously sharing your loving and kind approach to helping people deal with their problems and feel better. The impact you're having is profound. I love listening to you empathize with patients- it makes me strive for building an even more loving connection with my husband and daughters, as well as others in my life. Best, Molly Hi Molly, You may want to listen to podcast #205 pm Should Statements. You can also find a lot in my books, like Feeling Good, which you may have already read. There is also a chapter on how to crush should statements in my new book, Feeling Great, which will be released on September 15, 2020. Shoulds are distortions because they are not valid. It is not true that you “should not overeat when anxious.” You SHOULD overeat when anxious because it is very appealing, tasty, and makes you feel better. A correct statement would be, “It would be preferable if I did not overeat when anxious.” This statement removes the shame and pressure, while honoring your goal. There are three correct uses of should: the moral should (thou shalt not kill), the legal should (you should not drive 90 miles an hour because you’ll get a ticket) and the laws of the universe should: this pen should fall to the floor if I drop it because of the force of gravity. But overeating when anxious is not immoral or illegal, and it does not violate the laws of the universe. So it is not a valid use of the word. There is a podcast on this, I think, and you can search for it on my website use the search function. Rhonda and David  

Today, the Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit Focuses on Blame This is the final podcast on the Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit. Today, we focus on techniques to combat Blame. There are two common forms of Blame, and both can be deadly. Self-Blame: You beat up on yourself and blame yourself for things. Self-Blame is nearly always accompanied with self-directed Should Statements: “I really screwed up. I shouldn’t have done that!” Self-Blame triggers depression, worthlessness, and guilt, and sometimes triggers feelings of hopelessness and suicidal urges. Other-Blame: You beat up on others and blame them for the problems in your relationships. Other-Blame is nearly always accompanied with other-directed Should Statements: “He’s such a loser. He shouldn’t have such ridiculous beliefs!” Other-Blame triggers anger and conflict in relationships, and can sometimes trigger rage, violence, and even murder. Rhonda describes going on a bicycle trip with her husband. But when they got to the trailhead, they realized that her husband had put the wrong bicycle for Rhonda on their car. Sadly, the much-anticipated bicycle ride was ruined, and Rhonda began fuming and blaming her husband for having made this mistake. but then she decided to back off and think about her own role in the problem, and soon they were bake in a loving mood again. Unfortunately, for many people, the outcome is different, with escalating arguments and lasting feelings of resentment and indignance. David describes his work with a married woman who blamed herself for sexual difficulties and a history of sexual abuse as a child, who stood in front of a mirror with a razor blade to her neck the night before her first session with David. She was debating, “Should I just slit my throat and get it over with, or should I show up for my session in the morning?” Rhonda presses David for details about the treatment, which had a glorious outcome. David also gives a dramatic example of Other-Blame—a man who shot two obnoxious and aggressive teenage boys with his crossbow during a road rage incident. He shot one of the boys through the heart, and he fell and bled to death. Then he shot the other boy through the spinal column, and that boy survived but ended up paralyzed for life. The man was arrested and given a life sentence in prison. When interviewed by a television reporter and asked if he had any remorse or regrets, the man said, “Regrets! Hell no! That was the greatest accomplishment of my life! I think about constantly and it makes me euphoric. If I had the chance, I’d do the exact same thing again!” And that the huge problem with Other-Blame. Although negative thoughts containing Other-Blame are nearly always extremely distorted, just like the thoughts that cause depression, thoughts with Other-Blame trigger feelings of moral superiority and anger that can be extremely addictive. That’s why anger and relationship conflicts can be way harder to treat than depression and self-blame. One potentially helpful technique is a Blame Cost-Benefit Analysis, listing all the many advantages and benefits of blaming others for your problems and relationship conflicts. Once you’ve seen all the benefits, you can list the disadvantages, and then balance them against each other on a 100-point scale. if the advantages of blame are greater, there’s no reason to change. If you’re interested, you can check out this link to a Blame CBA that my daughter and I prepared. Check it out! David explains how he used this technique to help a physician with chronic, refractory depression and episodic rage attacks in a single therapy session! It’s a great technique to try if you’re feeling unhappy and blaming others for the problems in your relationships with them. Rhonda and I have  enjoyed creating this series for you. If there are other series you’d like to hear, let us know. For example, we could have a series of podcasts on all the different kinds of anxiety, illustrating the most helpful techniques for each one. We could also have a series on all of the different kinds of Self-Defeating Beliefs, like the Spotlight Fallacy, and how to defeat them. Or, if there are techniques you want us to highlight, we'd be more than happy to do that, too! Rhonda and David

Today, the Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit Continues with Should Statements Rhonda begins by reading a beautiful email from one of our listeners, and I give a brief shout out for my new book, Feeling Great, which can be pre-ordered on Amazon now (see below for the link). Thanks to your support, as of today (July 2) it is already the #1 best seller in the Amazon depression AND anxiety categories for impending new books! David and Rhonda briefly summarize the history of Should Statements, starting with the Buddha 2500 years ago, and culminating in the work of Karen Horney and Albert Ellis in the 20th century. They both emphasized that nearly all emotional suffering as well as relationship conflict results from “Shoulds.” David and Rhonda describe the four categories of Should Statements: Shoulds directed against yourself cause depression, anxiety, guilt, and shame. and even lead to suicidal urges. Should directed against others cause anger, and can even lead to violence. Shoulds directed against the world cause frustration. Hidden Shoulds. They also describe the three valid types of Should Statements: Moral Shoulds Legal Shoulds Laws of the Universe Shoulds David and Rhonda provide vignettes illustrating the tremendous emotional damage that can result from “Shoulds” and describe a number of strategies for combating them, including: Positive Reframing the Semantic Technique Socratic Questioning the Acceptance Paradox The final podcast in this series will focus on the two types of Blame: Self-Blame, which nearly always marches hand-in-hand with Self-Directed Shoulds Other-Blame, which nearly always marches hand-in-hand with Other-Directed Shoulds Rhonda and David

Today we feature a brilliant and beloved colleague, Dr. Alex Clarke. At the start of today’s podcast, Alex describes his unexpected journey from psychoanalysis / psychodynamic therapy to TEAM, but discovered that TEAM can actually be viewed as a type of psychoanalytic therapy. In fact, the two fathers of cognitive therapy, Albert Ellis, PhD, and Aaron Beck, MD, began their careers as psychoanalysts. They were simply looking for specific techniques to help their patients develop rapid and tangible change, and not just understanding that unfolds over a period of years. David and Alex discuss some of the surprising overlaps between TEAM and psychodynamic therapy, as well as some of the striking differences. Similarities Changing the Focus: Often there’s tension in the room, especially during therapy sessions. When you bring it to conscious awareness in a kindly way, it will often lead to therapeutic breakthrough. The Relationship Journal: This is a rapid way to highlight the recurring patterns that cause conflicts in intimate relationships. Interpersonal Downward Arrow: This is a high-speed version of psychoanalysis which reveals your “core conflict” in ten minutes, as compared with five years on the analyst’s couch. Hidden Emotion Technique: This is the idea that anxious individuals are overly “nice” and feel they have to suppress certain kinds of positive or negative feelings, which then emerge, in disguised form as some type of anxiety, such as chronic worrying, a phobia, a panic attack, OCD, and so forth. Differences T = Testing techniques: Most analysts are dead set against testing, thinking it will somehow hurt or ruin the “transference.” TEAM therapists are convinced it is difficult, if not impossible, to do good therapy without session by session assessments to track how patients feel, and how they feel about the therapist. E = Empathy training and methods: TEAM therapists get highly accurate and sensitive empathy ratings after every session from every patient. Many therapists get failing grades from most patients at most sessions. The patient’s criticisms are not taken as evidence for the patient’s distortions of the relationships, but rather as valid indicators of the therapist’s actual errors. This information is used to deepen the therapeutic relationship. A = Assessment of resistance: Freud devoted his career to understanding and trying to solve the puzzle of resistance—but his free association on the couch was not terribly effective. TEAM therapists bring subconscious resistance to conscious awareness quickly, and melt it away rapidly with a variety of techniques. This opens the door to the possibility of ultra-rapid recovery. M = Methods: TEAM therapists use more than 100 methods drawn from more than a dozen schools of therapy. The therapist and patient work together collaboratively to solve specific problems, and homework between sessions in mandatory. Alex’s current passions span a broad range of mental health treatment, and as a result, provide lots of great opportunities for fun and collaboration with David, as well as the rest of the TEAM community. Clinical work: Alex sees patients three days per week, using TEAM and occasionally medications if needed. Training / teaching: He teaches with David and several other experienced TEAM therapists at David’s weekly training group at Stanford. The Feeling Great app: Alex is assisting David and Jeremy Karmel in the process of making TEAM Therapy accessible to everyone as an electronic app. The app will include real-life examples bringing the techniques to life along with step-by-step instructions for how to put techniques into action. Putting these powerful psychotherapy ideas and methods in patients’ hands provides an exciting opportunity to accelerate healing and augment therapy, since the tool can be assigned as homework between therapy sessions. Also, when patients get stuck with topics in the app, they can discuss these with their therapists, deepen their understanding, and bring them to life through role-plays, etc. Statistical modeling: With David’s mentoring, Alex is working to learn data analytic and statistical modeling methods that can help investigators explore and understand how effective psychotherapy actually works. Measurement and Search: Alex has joined David’s son, Erik, on the exciting mission of promoting measurement-based and feedback-informed treatment as the standard of care in mental health. They are currently in the final phases of developing and rolling out an electronic system for use by therapists and patients to assess mood before, after, and between therapy sessions in order to assess changes in therapy as well as relapses between sessions. This system will provide unique insights for clinicians as well as patients about what’s helping, what’s not helping. The tool will also have a search-engine celebrating clinicians who commit use measurement consistently in their clinical work and will help patients find clinicians with outstanding skills in the areas where they need help. Alex was born in Seattle and grew up splitting his time between the east and west coast. Alex went to high school and college in North Carolina and played in a band for several years after finishing college. He also worked in restaurants, real estate, audio engineering, and even owned a vending machine business for several years! He’s always been a giant outdoors enthusiast, loving to hike, ski, climb, and surf. When Alex went to medical school, he planned to become an emergency room physician because of his love for adventure and wilderness. During medical school, Alex fell in love with the operating room and almost decided to become a surgery resident. However, during a summer research internship, Alex became increasingly interested in neuroscience and began devouring literature on consciousness and emotion research, as well as the brain-machine interface. When he discovered psychiatry during his clinical rotations, he was sold. Psychotherapy struck him as particularly awe-inspiring and he decided to dedicate himself to its learning and practice. In his final year of medical school, Alex traveled around the country doing rotations at medical centers across the US in an effort to learn how mental healthcare is practiced in different settings and regions. He searched broadly for psychotherapy mentors and feels wildly lucky to have found Dr. David Burns during his residency at Stanford. During residency, Alex trained in several different schools of psychotherapy, including advanced psychodynamic training with the SFCP (San Francisco Center for Psychoanalysis). As he puts it “there are lots of metaphors for human experiences, but all of these schools for some reason feel a need to use their own jargon, which can sometimes be off-putting or confusing.” I, David, would add that I agree with this 200%. For example, there is a concept called “projective identification.” For years I felt intimidated by this term and couldn’t figure out what it meant! Then someone explained it to me, and for a brief moment, I “got it.” But now, I again have no idea what it means! Alex decided that understandable language was important and discovered that Dr. Burns had been developing “common language” for important psychotherapy ideas as well as a framework for understanding how effective treatment works. Alex loved this and decided to join David is his mission of translating essential psychological and philosophical ideas into practical, usable healing techniques. One of things that Alex expresses that he admires most about David is his strength in taking complex ideas and bringing them down to a simple, digestible, human level. I, David, would add that I love working with Alex, and have learned so much from him, both in terms of the numerous technical discoveries and amazing breakthroughs that have evolved in our research, but I have also learned a little about the incredible value of humility and “selflessness” from this kindly gentle giant! I, Rhonda, would liked to add that I also love working with Alex.  I admire his kind soul, his gentle disposition, and his perceptive mind. Rhonda and I feel extremely lucky to be working with Dr. Alex! Rhonda and David Dr. Alex Clarke can be reached at: 650-382-2090, alex@clarkemd.com   Alex is available by video appointment for anyone located anywhere in the state of California.  He provides psychiatric evaluations, TEAM psychotherapy, and medication management for any condition, so don't hesitate to reach out to him by phone or email anytime to discuss evaluation/consultation options or treatment needs.  He is also available to clinicians for TEAM case consultation.   Thank you!!!    

Today, the Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit Continues with Emotional Reasoning Rhonda begins by reading a beautiful emails from a listener who was greatly inspired and helped by the personal work Marilyn Coffee did on several previous podcast. I also give a brief shout out for my new book, Feeling Great, which can be pre-ordered on Amazon now (see below for the link). Rhonda and David begin with a brief overview of Emotional Reasoning. this is a term i coined when I first created the list of ten cognitive distortions in the mid-to late 1970s. There is the definition: Emotional Reasoning is when you reason from how you feel. Here are several examples: “I feel like a loser, so I must really be a loser.” “I feel hopeless, so I must be hopeless.” “I feel anxious, so I must be in danger.” “I feel like a bad therapist, so I must really be one." “I feel judged. This means that people are judging me.” “I feel guilty. This means that I did something bad.” Emotional Reasoning is a distortion because your feelings all result from your thoughts. And if your thoughts are distorted, then your emotions / feelings will not reflect reality. Sometimes, your feelings are no more realistic than the images you see in funhouse mirrors in an amusement park.  This is worth knowing because for decades mental health professionals have promoted the ideas that getting in touch with your feelings is the key to mental health. There's truth in everything, and this is sometimes true. Being open with your feelings can be an important key to intimacy and to genuine relationships with others. But your feelings can also deceive you. For example, the feeling of hopelessness is always based on distortions and is never true. But sometimes believe it so strongly that they attempt suicide as the only escape from their suffering. David and Rhonda discuss examples of emotional reasoning and the techniques that can be helpful, including, but not limited to: The Double Standard Technique The Socratic Method Truth Based Techniques, such as: Examine the Evidence The Experimental Technique The Survey Technique David describes a father who was convinced he was a bad father because he shouted at his sons, and Rhonda describes an aspiring writer she recently treated who felt like she was dull and unimportant prior to a meeting with prospective agents. We are nearing the end of the distortion series, but still have two mega-important distortions to discuss: Should Statements Blame David mentions that Emotional Reasoning is not only important in emotional problems like depression and anxiety, but also in anger and conflict with others, as well as racial and religious bias. You feel like other racial or religious groups are inferior, and you feel superior, so you think you are right! Thank so much for listening. If you like our podcasts, tell your friends, colleagues, and patients about them! This is all volunteer work, so our only marketing budget is your good will. Each month our downloads are increasing, thanks to you, and we will hit three million downloads early next year or late this year. Rhonda and David  

Today, Rhonda and David discuss seven great questions submitted by podcast fans like you! Are depression and anxiety states of self-hypnosis? How do you deal with somatic symptoms in TEAM? Should we forgive Hitler and Stalin? What if a patient feels stuck and unable to identify emotions? Do you still really believe that depression and anxiety, regardless how severe, can be treated even without the use of prescription drugs? Do you have to work on your negative thoughts the moment they appear? What role, from your years of practice, does spirituality have in the psychotherapy? Are depression and anxiety states of self-hypnosis? Hi David, I have two questions after listening to Corona Cast 7: “My Struggle with Covid-19! Is it REALLY True that only Our Thoughts Can Upset Us?” I was struck by thinking of anxiety as the result of hypnotizing ourselves into believing our fears. Can depression by thought of in a similar way, except that we hypnotize ourselves into believing our distorted thoughts about ourselves? How do you deal with somatic symptoms in TEAM? Can you do an episode about how to deal with unpleasant somatic situations, as Michael was experiencing during the recording, that suggest there might be some psychological distress but don't seem to have thoughts associated with them? Thanks! Hi Derek, Another great couple of questions, thanks! Will add these to the next Ask David podcast, but the short story is yes, for sure—both depression and anxiety can be thought of as states of self-hypnosis, or trances, because you believe the messages you give yourself, (eg your negative thoughts) that are not true. I think one could add other positive and negative emotions to the list as well, including anger--believing the other person really IS wrong, bad, inferior, and so forth--as well as mania and narcissism, telling yourself that you really ARE a superior person, etc. This is a hugely important topic, and "emotional reasoning" fuels these trances: I FEEL worthless / inferior, so I must BE worthless / inferior, and so forth. With regard to your second question, you might want to listen to yesterday’s live session with Sarah, (Podcast 193, https://feelinggood.com/category/dr-davids-blogs/feeling-good-podcast/) since it focuses on intense somatic sensations generated by emotions, and you can actually hear the exact moment of recovery, when the physical sensations disappeared. David Should we forgive Hitler and Stalin? Hi Dr. Burns, Do you honestly think what Hitler and Stalin did should be forgiven? Albert Ellis said one should. I disagree! Tom Hi Tom, I only help people with problems they are asking for help with. I am not an evangelist or moral authority! David What if a patient feels stuck and unable to identify emotions? A new comment on the post "Uncovering Self-Defeating Beliefs (SDBs)--For Therapists (and Interested Patients) Only!"/ Hi Dr. Burns, Awesome blog post! Your accessible and kind demeanor shine through clearly. What if a client feels stuck and unable to identify emotions? Holly Do you still really believe that depression and anxiety, regardless how severe can be treated even without the use of prescription drugs? Hi Doctor Burns, My name is Jasmine, and I just started going back to therapy about a year ago. I have really improved, and both my mom AND my therapist recommended you HIGHLY. I’m a millennial and I’m just happy you are still alive! I also wanted to ask, do you still really believe even today that depression and anxiety, regardless how severe can treated even without the use of prescription drugs? I am asking because I just bought about three of your books and want to make sure that your confidence in these theories has not wavered. Sometimes I feel like a lost cause because this is the first time in my life that I am truly dealing with and facing my own problems instead of turning the other cheek. Also, how are you doing, sir? Jasmine Hi Jasmine, Doing great, thanks! The new techniques have added even more power to cognitive therapy. Check out my free Feeling Good Podcasts, free depression class, and more on my website, www.feelinggood.com. All the best, David PS My latest book, Feeling Great, can be pre-ordered on Amazon and will be released in Sept. Check our the link below. Do you have to work on your negative thoughts the moment they appear? Hello David, My name is Shivam, I wanted to ask you a question regarding the double column technique for disputing your thoughts. Do we have to work on that moment(upsetting) immediately as it happens or we can work on it later when we get free time? How often should we do it? Its very effective but consumes a lot of time as I keep writing on and on. Any suggestions? I really appreciate that you reply me back. Thanks for everything. love Shivam. What role, from your years of practice, does spirituality have in the psychotherapy? From: Jerry Souta Subject: spirituality in psychotherapy David: Your seminar today (Psychotherapy Leading Voices) was awesome! What role, from your years of practice, does spirituality have in the psychotherapy? Is there a correlation between spirituality and between feeling good/feeling great? Thank you for time taken in response to my in questions! Blessings! Jerry Souta, Jr. (MSW/LCSW/MDIV) Thanks, Jerry. I will answer this on an Ask David, we will be recording it soon. Your question will be featured on a Feeling Good podcast. The short answer is yes. Deep and rapid change nearly always involves a spiritual dimension, for example, one of the four “Great Deaths” of the self. There’s a whole section on this in my new book, Feeling Great.

Today, Rhonda and David discuss three great questions submitted by podcast fans like you!  This thoughtful question is from our beloved Rhonda! . . . And the answer may surprise you! When something terrible happens, like being raped or having your house burn down, or being a victim of racial discrimination, doesn’t the event itself upset you? Do you really have to have a negative thought before you can feel anger, fear, grief, or worthlessness? Hi David! For example, if our house burned down and we lost everything, or we or someone we loved was raped--doesn't the event affect you directly? Do you really have to have negative thoughts before you can feel sad, depressed, anxious or angry? Do all of our feelings REALLY result from our thoughts?  What about people who have been treated unfairly or been discriminated against because of their race, religion, gender identity, etc.  Aren't their feelings a direct result of their experience  and not just their thoughts? Rhonda What do you do when patients fall in love with you? Hi David and Rhonda, My name is Ben and I live in Maryland. I started listening to the feeling good podcast about 3 years ago when I was in a period of life transition. The podcast has been incredibly helpful to me as I dealt with my childhood trauma, explored my motivations and drives for life, and reoriented my personal relationships and career, away from what I thought I should be doing, toward what I love and deeply want for my life. In part because of the podcast's inspiration, I have decided to pursue a master’s degree in social work, and hope to become a psychotherapist. Thank you for all that you do, and the amazing help you have been to me personally. I do have one question. In one past episode. You mentioned the possibility of using five secrets to defuse the situation when a patient falls in love with the therapist because they feel understood and cared for. This has happened to me a few times when I talk with a friend about their personal difficulties, and they begin to develop feelings for me. I would like to keep these relationships friendships, rather than romantic. I would love to have your advice on how best to both inoculate against and resolve such situations. Thank you again. Ben What can you if your boss is not empathic? Hi Dr. Burns, You guys are always so good at empathy. I’d love to hear one day your method about how to cope when there is lack of empathy, but you still have to keep a relation. For example: when your boss doesn’t empathize with you and his message makes you feel bad, but you still need the job. I had an experience like that and it really hurt the ego. Cheers, David. Have a great day! Andres Hi Andres, One can always learn a lot from one exchange with the boss. What did he say and what, exactly did you say next? Waiting for empathy from others is never something I have recommended! That’s a really long wait! But you CAN discover how you are provoking the very problem you are complaining about if you have the courage. This empowers YOU to change. David Questions on the next Ask David: Are depression and anxiety states of self-hypnosis? How do you deal with somatic symptoms in TEAM? Should we forgive Hitler and Stalin? What if a patient feels stuck and unable to identify emotions? Do you still really believe that depression and anxiety, regardless how severe, can be treated even without the use of prescription drugs? Do you have to work on your negative thoughts the moment they appear? What role, from your years of practice, does spirituality have in the psychotherapy? Rhonda and David

Podcast #200: Meet Linda Jackson! We celebrated our one hundredth podcast with an interview with Professor Mark Noble, who talked about TEAM-CBT and the brain. Today, we celebrate our two hundredth podcast with another special guest, Linda Jackson, the publisher at PESI Publishing and Media Company.  You may know of PESI for their work in continuing education programs as well as training products for mental health professionals. You may not be aware that PESI is the publisher of my new book, Feeling Great, which will be released in September, 2020. One focus of our interview with Linda was the teamwork that is so important between any author and his or her publisher, as well as the editor. I have been really thrilled with the incredible teamwork and support that PESI has provided on this project, under Linda’s skillful leadership. That was my strong motivation in selecting PESI, and I’m really glad I made this choice. It will be their first general public “self-help” book, and I hope it is a huge success for them, and for me! Rhonda asks how this book compares with my first book, Feeling Good. It is the first true sequel, although I have written many spin-off books based on the cognitive therapy techniques I first described in Feeling Good. But now, after 40,000 therapy sessions with individuals struggling with mild to extreme depression and anxiety, as well as four decades of research on how psychotherapy actually works, I have many powerful new techniques that you can learn about in Feeling Great. Feeling Great is based on the TEAM-CBT that has evolved in the past ten to fifteen years in my weekly psychotherapy training and development group at Stanford. My book Feeling Good was about cognitions, and how to crush distorted thoughts.  What I have learned over the past 40 years of practice, research and teaching is that cognitions, while massively important, are not the only dimension in change. Of course, it is still true that when you change the way you think, you can change the way you feel, but now there is another powerful component:  many people seem, tp get stuck in depression or anxiety and resist change. They sometimes “yes-but” their therapists and often fail to do psychotherapy homework between sessions. Why? In Feeling Great, you will discover why people resist change and you will also learn how to eliminate resistance. The developments have ushered in the era of ultra-rapid recovery from depression and anxiety. Therapists who are interested in learning these new techniques will now have a clear guide, and members of the general public who are struggling with negative feelings will have the chance to use these techniques on their own, whether or not they are in treatment with a therapist. Linda talks about her personal history and how she happened to find a career in publishing. She describes her passion for writing, journalism and editing, going all the way back to her teenage years, something that I can totally identify with. Linda also describes her background in marketing, and her appreciation of its importance. You could have the greatest book in the world, but without a strong marketing effort, it will just sit on bookstore shelves unnoticed. Linda explained that PESI has been absolutely committed to publishing practical guides that therapists can use to improve their clinical work. But now, PESI is branching into publishing books for the general public as well, because people want answers to their questions of how to deal with feelings of depression, anxiety, and inadequacy. Linda said that PESI was not looking to publish a self-help book, but when someone in their organization heard that David was looking for a publisher, they felt it was “meant to be” that they would publish his new book. Linda believes that this book is going to help so many people who want to “feel great.” Something I (David) have deeply appreciated about working with Linda and her PESI team has been the comradery of the writing, editing and publishing process. We discuss my brilliant editor for Feeling Great, Jenessa Jackson, who happens to be Linda’s daughter-in-law. I (David) felt especially lucky to work with Jenessa, who not only provided incredibly helpful editing, but her background in neuroscience as well as clinical work were tremendously helpful. She clearly “got” my message, including the special chapter on "micro-neurosurgery" by Professor Mark Noble. I also am especially grateful for the marketing support PESI is providing for my new book.  I described the complete lack of support I had from the publisher of Feeling Good shortly after it was first published. That was understandable, because at the time I was an unknown author of a book on depression, and the president of the company (William Morrow & Co.) was convinced that Feeling Good had little or no commercial potential. As a result, in those early years after it was first published, I had to do everything on my own—and it was really hard! I encountered rejection after rejection when I tried to interest magazines or radio or TV shows in interviewing me about Feeling Good. In fact, it took eight years before I finally landed a top national TV show in 1988—the Phil Donahue Show—and the book immediately jumped to the top of all the best seller lists within minutes of the airing of that show. It was like magic! With Linda’s strong background in marketing, we are hopeful that Feeling Great will also get the market support it needs to help as many people as possible. After all, you owe it to yourself to Feel Great! Rhonda and David

Today, the Cognitive Distortion Starter Kit Continues with Labeling Rhonda begins by reading two beautiful, inspiring emails from listeners, and I give a brief shout out for my new book, Feeling Great, which can be pre-ordered on Amazon now (see below for the link). Rhonda and David begin with a brief overview of Labeling. There are two types of Labeling: Self-Labeling and Other-Labeling: Self-Labeling is where you attach a negative label to yourself, such as "I'm a loser," or "I'm a failure." Self-Labeling can be further divided into Labeling your role or Labeling your "self." Here are some examples of Labeling your role: "I'm a bad father," or "I'm a bad mother," or "I'm a lousy teacher," and so forth. Here are some examples of Labeling your "self:" "I'm a loser," or "a failure," or "worthless," or "defective." Other-labeling is exactly the same, except that it's directed at some other person, as in "he's a jerk," or "she's a loser." Labeling can be extremely hurtful, causing intense depression and anxiety, as well as anger, hatred and rage. However, labeling is a distortion, because a human being cannot be captured by a label. Humans are more like rivers that flow--in this direction and that direction, without a specific "shape." We have many, many dimensions, perhaps an infinite number! Many techniques can be helpful for Labeling, but it is always necessary to use any technique in the context of working systematically with the TEAM model, and doing great T = Testing, E = Empathy and A = Assessment of Resistance before trying any M = Methods. It's almost never a good idea to throw techniques at patients without these other vitally important steps first. And if you're working on yourself, it will be vitally important to do the A step before the M step too! David and Rhonda illustrate two techniques that can be especially helpful for Labeling: Let's Define Terms and Be Specific. They do a role play to bring the first technique to life, and play an actual recording of a portion of a TEAM session to bring the second technique to life. We are nearing the end of the distortion series, but still have three hugely important distortions to discuss: Emotional Reasoning Should Statements Blame Thank so much for listening. If you like our podcasts, tell your friends, colleagues, and patients about them! This is all volunteer work, so our only marketing budget is your good will. Each month our downloads are increasing, thanks to you, and we will hit three million downloads early next year or late this year. Rhonda and David

Today, Rhonda and David discuss ten great questions submitted by podcast fans like you! I can’t find any distortions in my thoughts! What’s the cause of this? Crushing Negative Thoughts. Do you have to write them down? Can’t you just do them in your head? PTSD Question: Does the trauma have to be life-threatening and experienced in person/ How can I get over anxiety and panic? Do demons cause depression? How is Sara now? Is anger just “ossified tears?” How do you explain the basic concepts of CBT and cognitive distortions to patients who are not familiar with your work? Can I help myself as much as Rameesh did? How can I start a self-help group based on your book, Ten Days to Self-Esteem? How can I find my favorite podcast? I can’t find any distortions in my thoughts! What’s the cause of this? A new comment on the post "001: Introduction to the TEAM Model" is waiting for your approval https://feelinggood.com/2016/10/27/001-introduction-to-the-team-model/ Hi Dr. Burns, I just ordered your book and am writing my cognitive distortions daily. I ran into one I did not know how to label it. I am a 73-year-old, attractive woman, When I see a young beautiful woman having a great time, say in an ad, I feel angry, sad and jealous. This does not apply to family members only strangers. charlotte Crushing Negative Thoughts. Do you have to write them down? Can’t you just do them in your head? A new comment on the post "190: How to Crush Negative Thoughts: Overgeneralization" is waiting for your approval https://feelinggood.com/2020/05/11/190-how-to-crush-negative-thoughts-overgeneralization/ Dr. Burns, Why is writing the negative thought down important? Can’t I just pinpoint it in my head and simply switch the negative thought to positive one? I know it will not work but i am not able to convince others or myself why I have to write them down. Why is the writing process so important? After practicing for a while will you have the habit of think positively? I am wondering why some people have this way of positive thinking without even practicing? Toni PTSD Question: Does the trauma have to be life-threatening and experienced in person/ A new comment on the post "147: High-Speed Treatment of PTSD?" is waiting for your approval https://feelinggood.com/2019/07/01/147-high-speed-treatment-of-ptsd/ Hi David, I am a fan of your great work and contribution to psychology. I have a question about PTSD: does it necessarily have to be life-threatening in person or can it be caused for example by a threat via online message? Thank you! MB Thanks, MB, great question. Only your thoughts can upset you, not the actual trauma, so the answer is yes. Anything that is profoundly upsetting is profoundly upsetting, period! There is no objective way to measure the impact of any trauma other than via your own thoughts and feelings! This is so important, and yet most of the world, including those who have written the DSM-5 (and all earlier editions) / don't yet "get it." The DSM states that for a diagnosis of PTSD, you have to have some trauma that is “objectively horrific.” But there is no such thing! david How can I get over anxiety and panic? Debby asked a question about podcast 189: How to Crush Negative Thoughts: All-or-Nothing Thinking I have your book When Panic Attacks. I am at a loss at what to use to get over anxiety and panic. It is exciting because you said that you can get rid of both fairly soon; which would be great Hi Debby, Thanks for your excellent question! The Daily Mood Log described (I believe) in chapter 3 of When Panic Attacks is a great place to start. Do it on paper, and not in your head, focusing on one specific moment when you were anxious. Thanks! One teaching point is to focus on one specific moment, and not try to solve anxiety or any mood problem in generalities. A second teaching point is to record the situation, your feelings, and your negative thoughts you were having at that moment. This is always the starting point for change! You’ll find tons of resources on my website, feelinggood.com, including the show notes for all the podcasts with links, search function, and way more, all for free. You can learn a great deal if you put in the time and effort. For example, I am now creating a free class on anxiety and it will soon be available on my website! David Do demons cause depression? Brian W. commented on Podcast 189 on All-or-Nothing Thinking Hi Dr. Burns, Amazing podcast as always doctor Burns! Question: have you ever encountered anything in your patients that you might consider supernatural? I'm Catholic and there's the idea that demons can cause depression or mental illness. I know it sounds crazy, but I've seen weird things. Thank you. Brian Thank you for your question, Brian. Depression results from negative thoughts, not demons. That's good because you can learn to change the way you think and feel. The type of therapy I do is entirely compatible with all religions, including Catholicism, and there is often a spiritual dimension in recovery. All the best, david How is Sara now? Is anger just “ossified tears?” Dear Dr Burns, Though doubting that you’ll ever read or answer this, nevertheless I’ll cast it to the cloud for something-or-other! I’m an old fossilised blind British harpsichordist (good combo?!!) and a devoted fan of your podcasts, as well as selectively slowly making my happy way through the 27 hours of RNIB’s Talking Book version of ‘Feeling Good’ (Must tell you that the Braille Music Translation Programme I use invented by a great buddy in Pa. is called ‘Goodfeel’, so you guys must have something in common!). Alas I have 2 questions. First, as a ‘floating’ OCD sufferer for 70 years or so, I wildly enjoyed Sara’s ‘high speed cure’ in podcast 162. However, surely with this new Coronavirus threat – the virus remaining on cardboard for around 24 hours and other surfaces including shopping for at least 2 days or more -, her cure must have now been reversed? The fact, and I mean from much research ‘fact’ is that ‘what you touch could kill you’. Sure, it might not but, in as bad health otherwise as I am, I believe it’s imperative to be as careful as pos. which, courteously put, is screwing my brain! How about Sara?! Finally, well I suppose it’s a comment more than a question. I’ve been enjoying and, indeed, beginning to benefit from your section in the book on anger. I wonder though whether, unless I haven’t got there yet (which is eminently possible!!), you might have left out one aspect of anger? I’ve often thought that it, as well as hatred and violence could be designated ‘ossified tears’ and, believe me, in my case, if so, they’ve turned into unbreakable rocks!! Keep up the great work, Dr Burns. We all need such an unique communicator and erudite intellect as you, oh and I fervently hope you can stay clear of this virus. Very best and thanks, John Henry (Not the old American horse, . . . but rather a British, almost human John Henry!! David and Rhonda respond to both of John's questions! How do you explain the basic concepts of CBT and cognitive distortions to patients who are not familiar with your work? Hi David and Rhonda, You previously answered a question of mine on your podcast. It was quite helpful, thanks! I have a new unrelated question. While the live sessions have been very illuminating in many ways, your patients have always been trained therapists who are already familiar with the concepts of CBT and cognitive distortions. I understand this is an ethical necessity. As a family physician I struggle with that first step - how do you introduce the concepts of CBT and the cognitive distortions to non-therapist clients? I imagine it must take at least a full session just to do education on the distortions. This may be a question best for Rhonda. Thanks again! Calvin Hi Calvin, Thank you for another great question. If you prescribe the book, Feeling Good, it can help you and your patients in three ways. First, they’ll get all the concepts and some sound psychoeducation, saving you time. Second, the book is at least as effective as antidepressants, so it is prescribing something that may be very helpful with no side effects. Third, it will be a test of their motivation. Motivation appears to have a massive effect on recovery from depression. Also, there are tons of great classes in TEAM for beginners if you check them out at FGI (www.feelinggoodinstitute.com). There are also free classes on depression and other topics on my website, www.feelinggood.com. These classes may also help your patients. On the show, Rhonda will explain how she introduces these topics to her patients as well! All the best, David Rhonda’s note to Calvin: You flatter me, because all questions are best answered by David, but I will give it a try. I do ask all my patients to read David's book Feeling Good, which is superb at describing what CBT is and why it is effective. I have an intake telephone call with all my new patients before we start working together, and before they read Feeling Good. In that call I explain CBT like this, imagine a triangle that has Thoughts, Feelings and Behavior at each point. Your thoughts drive your feelings and your behavior. So, if you can change the way you think, you can change the way you feel. David gives the example of someone walking in the woods who hears a twig break. Imagine that hiker thinking that a murderer is creeping behind him or her, what do imagine he or she would feel? But imagine that same hiker thinking that his or her best friend is joining the hike? What would he or she feel then? There are lots of examples like that: two students who have studied the same amount. One walks into the test room thinking, I did a good job studying, the other walks into the test room thinking I should have studied more. Who do you think will do better on the test? This is an actual study that has been done, and if you guessed the student thinking more confidence did better, you would be correct. It makes logical sense. I don't explain cognitive distortions in my intake discussion, but when we first start working with a Daily Mood Log, after we have gone through T = Testing, E = Empathy, and after A = Assessment of Motivation, when we are going through the M = Method "Identify the Distortions" for the first time. I explain that cognitive distortions are embedded in our negative thoughts, and they are simply ways that our mind convinces us of somethings that aren't really true. By this time patients have read part of Feeling Good, so they have more psychoeducation. But I find if patients still don't understand the concept of cognitive distortions, as we go through the Identify the Distortions method, they soon understand what distortions are. I hope that makes sense, and that you find this helpful, Rhonda Can I help myself as much as Rameesh did? Hello Dr David, I saw how Ramesh changed dramatically and I want that kind of change in my life. but I am doubtful. It was you who managed to melt away his resistance using different techniques. Is it possible that we can manage to change ourselves so effectively? Shivam Hi Shivam, Thank you for this incredibly important question. Research indicates that many people have been helped by reading my books and doing the exercises, such as Feeling Good. Motivation and hard work are critically important in personal change and recovery. I am also working on a new app, and hope to get data to answer this exact question! Best of luck! Will make this an Ask David question, as it is so important! David How can I start a self-help group based on your book, Ten Days to Self-Esteem? Dr Burns, I know your book, Ten Days to Self Esteem, has a group leaders manual. Can anyone start one of those groups of do you have to be a therapist of some sort? Has anyone told you that they started one? How did they say it went? Any tips for starting one? Thanks Richard Hi Richard, Many pilot studies using this program with lay leaders have been effective. The program at my hospital in Philadelphia, also using lay leaders, was very effective. David How can I find my favorite podcast? Hi David I am a therapist and was reminded of one of your podcasts as I was listening to a particular patient. I wanted to share the episode and then couldn’t find it so felt silly. It was an episode where a father (perhaps Indian? Maybe a doctor?) empathizes and listens in a whole new way to his adult son and has a miraculous turn of events in the relationship- simply by being present and not being defensive when the son tells him how he feels about his father. It was beautiful and moving. A great example of “opposite action”- agreeing with the criticism rather than defending against it. Does that episode ring a bell and can’t you point me in the right direction to retrieve it? I know how busy you are. Thank you for your wonderful podcast and for any help you can provide. Thanks, Pam Hi Pam, It might be the follow-up to the live therapy with Mark. Use the search function on my website. He is from Iran, and is an OB-GYN doctor who has faithfully attended my Tuesday training group for years. He is one of my favorite people. Learning the Five Secrets takes lots of commitment and practice. He has formed his own Five Secrets practice group with friends and colleagues who are not shrinks. They’ve met weekly for years, so his skills are quite refined now. Thanks! David On the podcast, I emphasize the search function you can easily find on every page of my website, www.feelinggood.com. Pam’s comment on the Five Secrets is also important. Desire, commitment and ongoing practice are the keys to mastery! Rhonda and David