Voxology

How the church can still be a place of healing, transformation, and deep belonging—even when it’s broken. Part three of the “Why We’re Leaving the Church” series dives deep into personal stories across generations, offering a raw and hopeful conversation on why many still choose to stay, participate, and even lead within the church despite its failures and contradictions. Mike Erre, Andy, and Izzy reflect on the struggles, disappointments, and transformative beauty of church life. From hypocritical leadership and personal trauma to unexpected healing through meaningful community, this episode explores how reimagining our expectations of church can lead to renewed engagement rather than abandonment. Key Takeaways: • Reframing Church Beyond Institutions – Following Jesus means belonging to his body, even if we walk away from institutional expressions of church. • The Healing Power of Authentic Community – Izzy shares her journey from spiritual burnout to renewed faith through genuine relationships and shared vulnerability. • Corporate Worship as Resistance and Formation – Worshiping together with diverse people disrupts individualism and reminds us we're not at the center of the story. • Admitting Complicity and Staying Present – Mike discusses how recognizing his own role in perpetuating unhealthy church patterns keeps him humble and committed to transformation from within. • Ordinary Faithfulness Over Flash and Production – The path forward isn't about escaping discomfort or imperfection but choosing depth, presence, and the messy, transformative work of relational community. Guest Highlights: • Izzy – A worship leader in her twenties who vulnerably shares her painful church experience and the surprising reasons she stays—including relational healing, meaningful worship, and the beautiful weirdness of spiritual family. • Andy – Unpacks his own journey out of and back into church life and the spiritual discipline of staying engaged in community despite disillusionment. Resources Mentioned: • Why People Are Leaving the Church (Article Series) • Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller • 1 Corinthians (Letter by Paul) – Specifically Paul's critique of the Corinthian church, reminding us the early church was messy too. • Ivan Illich Quote – “If you want to change society, then you must tell an alternative story.” Share your story with us—why have you stayed? What keeps you coming back to the body of Christ? Email us at hello@voxpodcast.com. Let’s reimagine together what it means to be the church. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and follow us on social to join the journey. We're on YouTube: VOXOLOGY TV Our Merch Store: Etsy Learn more and listen to more episodes at Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/voxology Follow on Instagram: @voxologypodcast Like us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: twitter.com/mikeerre Music by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

How the church has lost its witness by prioritizing culture wars, misrepresenting love, and failing to embody the radical, self-giving love of Jesus — and why it matters. In this honest and provocative conversation, Mike Erre, Andy, and Izzy Ray dive deep into the next two points from the widely shared blog post "Dear Church, Here's Why People Are Leaving You," exploring the disconnect between the Church's messaging and Jesus’ own heart for people. This is Part 2 of the “Dear Church” series. Whether it's choosing the wrong battles or wielding a love that doesn’t feel like love, today's church often alienates the very people it’s called to embrace. Through personal stories, scriptural reflection, and candid critique, the team wrestles with the call to embody agape love — a love that costs, sacrifices, and welcomes. Key Takeaways: • Choosing Better Battles – Why the Church often fights for trivial causes while staying silent on poverty, racism, and injustice — and how that undermines its mission. • Love as a Transformative Force – Redefining love as a costly, self-sacrificial act rooted in Jesus’ example, not superficial niceness or moral correctness. • The Evangelism vs. Justice Divide – How our inherited Christianity has wrongly separated “saving souls” from addressing structural injustice, and why that needs to change. • The Church and the Margins – Recognizing that Jesus does His best work from the margins, not the center of power and influence — and why embracing marginalization may be crucial to rediscovering the Church’s purpose. • Restoring Witness through Authenticity – How building real, honest, committed relationships — even with those who disagree — revives the credibility of our faith and witness. Resources Mentioned: • James 1:27 – "Pure religion" as caring for widows and orphans. • Dallas Willard – Teachings on joyful noncompliance and spiritual formation. • Ray Vander Laan – Cultural background of the Gospels. • Toxic Charity by Robert D. Lupton – A critique of unhelpful generosity. • When Helping Hurts by Brian Fikkert and Steve Corbett – How well-meaning aid can backfire. • The Insanity of God by Nik Ripken – Stories from the persecuted global church. • John 3:16 – A deeper reflection on divine love and mission. • Luke 6:27-36 – Jesus’ call to love enemies and embody mercy. Join hosts Mike, Andy, and Izzy for a striking look at how the Church must return to love, humility, and justice to truly reflect the heart of Jesus in a hurting world. Call to Action: Help spread this conversation by subscribing, reviewing, and sharing the Voxology Podcast. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook to keep up with the latest — and if any reflections or stories resonate with you, we’d love to hear from you. As always, listener feedback is deeply valued. Send your thoughts and questions to hello@voxpodcast.com or connect with us on social platforms. We're on YouTube: VOXOLOGY TV Our Merch Store: ETSY Learn more at voxologypodcast.com Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support us on Patreon Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikeerre Music by Timothy John Stafford & featured music by Izzy Ray – izziray.com Instagram & Twitter: @voxologypodcast | @GoneTimothy | @izziray  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

How can the church reclaim its prophetic voice and connect deeply in a generation disillusioned by performance, image, and control? That’s the question Mike Erre, Andy, and special guest Izzy Ray tackle in this candid and heartfelt conversation. Prompted by John Pavlovitz’s article “Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are Really Leaving You,” the trio explores what it means to be authentic in ecclesial spaces, challenge the production model of church gatherings, and create communities that honor real brokenness, humility, and beauty. This isn’t a church-bashing episode—it’s a love letter to the mission of Jesus and an invitation to witness how weakness might actually be the church’s superpower. Key Takeaways: • Rejection of Performance-Based Church – Why young adults, like Izzy, are exhausted by overproduced experiences and long for authenticity instead of scripted perfection. • The Loss of Mystery – How rigid control and stage-managed services strip away the wonder and spirit-led surprise that gathering in Jesus’s name should embody. • Weakness as Qualification – Revisiting Paul's declaration that “power is made perfect in weakness,” and why church leaders may actually be most qualified to lead when limping. • Burnout in the Pulpit – The systemic failure of celebrity leadership models, why burnout is common, and what rest and restoration should actually look like. • Language That Connects – Replacing insider churchy language with meaningful, plain communication that resonates with real-life people. • Beyond the Building – Challenging the "come and consume" model of church and reimagining church gatherings as platforms for love, justice, and community outside the walls. Guest Highlight: Izzy Ray – Worship artist, pastor, and Vox community member representing the generational voice of an authentic hunger for Jesus. Izzy opens up about her lived experience with church culture, what she longs for in Christian gatherings, and why vulnerability and mystery matter more than polish and hype. Resources Mentioned: • Article: “Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are Really Leaving You” by John Pavlovitz – johnpavlovitz.com • Book: Power, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God by Marva J. Dawn – [Link] • Podcast: Vox Community podcast (for teachings + scripture series) – Vox Community on iTunes • Izzy Ray music – izzyray.com Join us as we embrace the beauty of the messy middle, where Jesus shows up not in sameness, but in brokenness, realness, and hope. Got thoughts or your own story about leaving or staying in church? Email us at hello@voxpodcast.com – we want to hear from you! Subscribe, share, and leave a review to help us keep reimagining Jesus’s mission together. We're now on YouTube too – VOXOLOGY TV Vox Merch: ETSY SHOP Patreon: Support meaningful conversation – Patreon.com/voxology Follow on Instagram: @voxologypodcast Join the Vox Community on Facebook Music by Timothy John Stafford (also @GoneTimothy) and guest artist Izzy Ray  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

What does it really mean to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and unto God what is God’s? In this bold and insightful continuation of the Jesus & Politics series, Mike Erre unpacks one of the most misinterpreted passages in Christian theology. Drawing from Luke 20 and Jewish historical context, Mike reframes Jesus’s response to the trap question about paying taxes—not as an endorsement of dual citizenship, but as a radical declaration that our entire identity belongs to God alone. Listeners will walk away with a deeper understanding of how Jesus subverted both political and religious expectations and how his call to wholehearted allegiance continues to challenge American Christians today. Mike and Andy explore the implications of carrying God’s image and choosing to live as citizens of the Kingdom, not of any earthly empire—even when it demands radical reorientation of our identity, politics, and gospel witness. Key Takeaways: • Reframing the "Caesar Tax" Trap – How Jesus flipped a political question into a spiritual revelation of identity and allegiance. • Image and Inscription – Understanding the profound Jewish implications behind Jesus’s use of the words “image” and “inscription” in his response. • The Myth of Dual Citizenship – Why Jesus’s statement isn’t about balancing sacred and secular loyalties but prioritizing God’s claim over our entire lives. • Politics & Identity – How Christian identity shapes political posture and why the gospel—not fear or power—should be the driving force behind civic engagement. • Peter’s Call to Submission – Reconciling Jesus’s radical teaching with Peter’s instruction to honor authority, all in service to the gospel. Resources Mentioned: • Luke 20:20-26 – The passage at the center of today’s conversation • Jeremiah 7 – The prophetic link behind Jesus’s confrontation in the temple • Genesis 1:26 – The foundation of being created in God’s image • 1 Peter 2 – Exploring Christian submission for the sake of the gospel • www.voxoc.com – Sign up at the bottom to be part of the potential Vox church community coming out of this podcast • www.subversivekingdom.com – Archive of past podcasts and resources As the idea of launching a new church community begins to take shape, we want to hear from you! If you're in Orange County and would like to be a part of what’s next, head to voxoc.com and drop your email at the very bottom to stay informed. Your prayers, resources, and talents could help form a church FROM a podcast—flipping the traditional model on its head. Stay connected by subscribing, leaving a review, and joining us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Let's keep pursuing the subversive and beautiful mission of Jesus together. As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you’re into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

How the American church’s blend of faith and partisan politics compromises the mission of Jesus and why a new, distinctly Christ-centered political theology is desperately needed. In this foundational episode, Mike Erre and Andy unpack five key points for developing a theology of politics that resists culture war narratives and reclaims Jesus’s lordship over all of life, including the public square. Prompted by a storm of Facebook backlash to Mike’s call for Christians to provide a counter-narrative to the increasingly politicized expressions of faith linked to conservative ideology, this thoughtful—and at times fiery—conversation explores how the American church often sacrifices Jesus’s witness for political loyalty. Key Takeaways: • Politics and the Image of God – Politics is not inherently evil; it’s a reflection of our God-given mandate to order and care for human society. • Following Jesus is Inherently Political – Jesus’s life, birth, and message directly challenged the Roman Empire, revealing that the gospel has unavoidable public implications. • Kingdom Above Country – The kingdom of God is not Republican, Democrat, Socialist, or Libertarian. It indicts all earthly systems and transcends partisanship. • Political Allegiance vs. Gospel Witness – How prioritizing political identity over Jesus leads to hostility, name-calling, and poor witness in both digital and real-life discussions. • How the Church Should Engage – Faithful political engagement flows from kingdom values: nonviolence, humility, justice, love of enemies, and self-sacrifice. Resources Mentioned: • Luke 2 – The politically loaded birth announcement of Jesus • Revelation – As a critique of empire and prophetic call to allegiance to the slain Lamb • SubversiveKingdom.com – Mike’s website and resource hub Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode to help others rethink the role of politics in our discipleship journey. As always, we encourage and deeply value your questions and dialogue. Email us anytime at hello@voxpodcast.com, and join the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube too: VOXOLOGY TV Snag some merch to rep the movement: Voxology on Etsy Learn more and discover previous series at voxologypodcast.com Subscribe to us on iTunes or listen on Spotify Support Voxology on Patreon Listen to our Spotify music playlist: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and like us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

How can we reconcile our faith in Christ with the real and painful experiences of depression, anxiety, and mental illness? This honest and compassionate conversation offers both personal testimony and hope for those navigating mental health struggles within the Christian faith. In Episode 10—a milestone moment for the Vox Podcast—Mike Erre and Andy dive deep into the realities of mental illness, exploring their own journeys and how they’ve found Jesus in the midst of their darkest seasons. This episode is both personal and practical, acknowledging the complexity of mental health and challenging the overly spiritualized or stigmatized tendencies found in some corners of the church. They offer encouragement for those suffering silently and insight for the friends, family, and church communities walking alongside them. Key Takeaways: • Honoring the Reality of Mental Illness – Depression and anxiety are not signs of spiritual failure. You can love Jesus and struggle with mental illness at the same time. • From Breakdown to Breakthrough – Mike and Andy reflect on the deepest moments of despair that led them to therapy, medication, and spiritual rediscovery. • The Importance of a Holistic Approach – Mental health requires attention to spiritual, emotional, relational, and physical well-being; we are whole people, and healing is multifaceted. • Presence Over Platitudes – How we can better support friends and loved ones facing depression by offering empathy, not empty solutions. • Christian Hope in Mental Illness – Through storytelling and scripture, this episode affirms that God meets us in our weakness and rewrites our suffering into stories of redemption. Therapy, medication, and spiritual support each play an important role in the healing journey—especially in a culture that prizes performance and underestimates the silent suffering of many believers. Resources Mentioned: • Scripture: John 9, Romans 12:2, 2 Corinthians 12:9 • Subversive Kingdom – subversivekingdom.com • Email for referrals or help: hello@voxpodcast.com Call to Action: Let’s create churches and communities where mental health discussions are normalized and grace-filled. Share this episode with someone who might need it today. And as always, subscribe, leave a review, and follow us on social media to be a part of these vital conversations. As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV https://www.youtube.com/@voxology Our Merch Store! https://www.etsy.com/shop/VOXOLOGY?ref=shop_sugg_market Learn more about the Voxology Podcast: https://voxologypodcast.com/ Subscribe on iTunes: https://apple.co/1Lla1Nj Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Mvxz3OQDSkEpHujXiFkkr?si=KJoEXxxxTsqE-HiGL-PfIA Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/voxology The Voxology Spotify channel: https://open.spotify.com/user/nj2l08pd1zt6zk3azs1plhmdy?si=3fb86269da0449ed Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/voxologypodcast Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford https://www.timothyjohnstafford.com Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

How does the Book of Job challenge our assumptions about suffering, divine will, and justice? Continuing their Suffering Series, Mike Erre and Andy Lara navigate the emotional, cultural, and theological complexities of recent tragic events—particularly the fatal police shootings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile—while asking the deeper question: Does God cause suffering? Using the poetic narrative of Job as their backdrop, Mike and Andy wrestle with misleading Christian clichés (“God gives and takes away”), reconsider traditional theodicies, and expose how oversimplified views of God's sovereignty can cause real harm. By exploring Job’s tale in its ancient Near Eastern literary and cultural context, the episode introduces a more dynamic, complex, and hopeful picture—one that recognizes the reality of spiritual conflict, the limitations of human understanding, and the subversive yet nonviolent nature of God's power. Key Takeaways: • The Book of Job as a Deconstruction of Simplistic Theology – Why Job's stylized, epic format invites us to abandon formulaic views of suffering and divine justice. • God vs. The Satan – How the narrative of Job introduces an adversary as an external source of evil, rather than attributing suffering directly to God’s will. • Permission Isn’t Ordination – The critical difference between God allowing suffering and God causing it. • The Injustice of the Just – How both Job and his well-meaning friends get it wrong in their own ways, and what that teaches us about speaking honestly versus speaking theologically “correct.” • Reframing the Hedge of Protection – Why spiritual protection isn’t about immunity from pain, but partnering with Christ in a war against evil and chaos. • Why “We Don’t Know” Is Sometimes the Most Faithful Answer – A humble call to accept mystery in a world where we long for clarity and control. Resources Mentioned: • Greg Boyd – Books: “God at War” and “Satan and the Problem of Evil” • John Mark Comer – Job series from Bridgetown Church • Bible Scripture: The Book of Job • Dallas Willard – Teachings on non-coercive power • Podcast Mention: Upcoming interview with “Godless” (be sure to check it out in two weeks) Join Mike and Andy as they process personal grief, societal injustice, and theological discomfort, offering a space where deep doubts and honest questions are welcome. Subscribe, leave a review, and follow Voxology Podcast to keep these crucial conversations going. As always, we encourage discussion as we pursue deeper questions together. Email your thoughts to hello@voxpodcast.com and join us on Facebook and Instagram. Catch video episodes on YouTube: VOXOLOGY TV Shop the official merch store: ETSY Discover more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe via iTunes or Spotify Support us on Patreon Music by Timothy John Stafford – Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikeerre  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

A vulnerable and wide-ranging discussion on the complexities of faith, doubt, and identity as Mike Erre and Andy sit down for a powerful conversation with a guest known online as “Godless”—a self-described agnostic atheist. Raised Catholic, born again in the Assemblies of God youth group, and now an outspoken skeptic, Godless walks us through his unexpected spiritual evolution. With humor, intelligence, and empathy, this episode unpacks how one loses belief, wrestles with deep existential questions, and grapples with the emotional weight of leaving behind a religious identity. This episode isn't a debate—it's chips-and-salsa theology. It's what happens when mutual respect replaces defensiveness and curiosity takes the place of certainty. Whether you're steadfast in your faith, sitting in doubt, or searching for space to ask hard questions, this conversation offers insight, honesty, and plenty of space to reflect. Key Takeaways: • Understanding "Agnostic Atheism" – What the label actually means and how Godless defines his beliefs and knowledge about God. • The Emotional Cost of Deconversion – How losing faith can trigger anger, grief, and a sense of betrayal, even years later. • Faith and Family – What it's like raising a child outside of religion while remaining open to dialogue and exploration. • Misconceptions About Atheists – Godless challenges Christian assumptions around morality, meaning, and spirituality in non-believing communities. • The Problem of Evil and the Bible – Candid wrestling with the moral difficulty of parts of the Old Testament and its implications for belief in Jesus. • Why So Many Leave – The role of the church's cultural posture, treatment of doubt, and inability to wrestle alongside those questioning. Guest Highlight: Godless – Co-host of the MetalSucks Podcast and creator of exclusive content for Patreon at chuckandgodless.com, Godless shares his spiritual story from devout believer to outspoken skeptic, with honesty, vulnerability, and intellectual curiosity. He also opens up about parenting a secular child and continuing to pursue conversations across lines of belief. Resources Mentioned: • Godless & Chuck (MetalSucks Podcast) – chuckandgodless.com • Hen’s Teeth and Horse’s Toes by Stephen Jay Gould – A pivotal book in Godless’s shift toward atheism. • A History of God by Karen Armstrong – One of the first books that expanded his view of religious pluralism. • God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens – A key text from the New Atheist movement. • Silverlake Life Documentary – A moving film that changed his views on same-sex relationships. • Iron Chariots – ironchariots.org, a secular wiki exploring arguments for and against belief. Join us as we continue to explore what it means to be people of peace, friendship, and honest questions. Like, subscribe, or share this episode if it moved you. And as always, continue the conversation—we’d love to hear from you. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com and engage the community on Facebook and Instagram. We're also on YouTube: VOXOLOGY TV Merch Store: VOXOLOGY on Etsy Visit the Voxology Podcast site Listen & Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Or Spotify Support us on Patreon Check out the Voxology Spotify channel Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikeerre Music by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @gonetimothy  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

Can a non-affirming Christian hold space for LGBTQ+ voices with humility and grace? Can thoughtful atheism provoke deeper faith? Mike and Andy reflect on powerful listener feedback—one from a 20-year-old gay Christian named Jeremy, and another from “Godless,” an atheist guest host—and begin a deep dive into the critiques both raised about the Bible, theology, and the church's engagement with real people. Through Jeremy’s compelling and vulnerable email, the conversation explores the complexities of same-sex attraction, love, repentance, and the experience of God’s presence even when clarity doesn’t come. Their exchange reveals a profound ability to disagree while honoring the faith journey of another human being. Then, responding to “Godless,” Mike begins to unpack why he still finds belief in God intellectually, historically, and existentially plausible—even in light of some of the Bible's most difficult passages. This two-part reflection asks: What’s the better explanation for morality, consciousness, beauty, and meaning—God or chance? And does Jesus, who proclaimed he fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, actually challenge the interpretive misuses of the Old Testament in revolutionary ways? Key Takeaways: •   Listening with Humility – Why Mike and Andy gave Jeremy the last word in their conversation on affirming vs. non-affirming theology, and what thoughtful disagreement looks like. •   A Complex Faith Journey – Jeremy’s story highlights how trauma, love, and the Holy Spirit can reshape assumptions about what it means to follow Jesus as a gay Christian. •   Maintaining Theological Tension – The Vox team emphasizes that positions on sexuality are deeply nuanced and must be held with gentleness and openness to critique. •   Why Mike Still Believes in God – Using an "inference to the best explanation" framework, Mike outlines how the existence of God better accounts for morality, consciousness, and purpose than material atheism. •   Jesus vs. Old Testament Morality – Introducing a robust critique of how Jesus actually differentiates himself from the legalism of his time and invites disciples into a more radical, coherent ethic centered on love, justice, and mercy. Resources Mentioned: •   Oriented to Faith by Tim Otto – A third-way perspective from a celibate gay affirming pastor. •   Hen’s Teeth and Horse’s Toes by Stephen Jay Gould – A scientific work that challenged Godless' Christian views. •   Matthew 5:17 – Jesus’ statement on fulfilling the Law and the Prophets. •   The Sermon on the Mount – Read through the lens of first-century Judaism and Jesus’ critique of the Pharisees. •   Dallas Willard – Insights on moral self and human flourishing. •   N.T. Wright’s Theology – On the Jewish roots and richness of Jesus’ ethical teachings. This episode acts as a bridge between radically different viewpoints—atheistic skepticism and LGBTQ+ Christian faith—and the tradition of following Jesus in truth and love, without simplistic answers or defensive postures. Part two continues this exploration into Jesus, the Old Testament, and how we interpret divine morality in tension with real life. Subscribe, leave a review, and share with your community as we navigate hard conversations with curiosity, grace, and hopeful faith. As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy

How do spiritually abusive environments form, and why do they often look so “religious”? This fourth installment in the ongoing Spiritual Abuse series dives deep into Jesus’ own critiques of religious leaders as a template for recognizing toxic patterns in modern churches and Christian communities. Mike Erre and Andy Lara explore themes of hypocrisy, majoring on the minors, and the death of mercy—all signs that a group is more interested in control and image than transformation and love. Drawing from Jesus' confrontations with Pharisees in Luke 11, they examine how legalism, performative spirituality, and prideful self-righteousness continue damaging people today—especially within churches where power dynamics, surface-level morality, and theological rigidity replace empathy, authenticity, and the true heart of the gospel. Key Takeaways: • Hypocrisy and the Heart – Jesus prioritizes inner transformation over outward religious performance. Mike reflects on how external conformity without internal renewal fosters abusive environments. • Majoring on the Minors – How churches and leaders often elevate secondary issues (like worship styles or doctrinal minutiae) above justice, mercy, and love—a pattern that mirrors the Pharisees. • The Death of Mercy – A lack of compassion reveals a distorted spirituality. “Mercy over sacrifice” becomes the litmus test for Jesus’ kind of obedience. • Idolizing Leadership – When church leaders seek admiration rather than servanthood, it weaponizes power and marginalizes the broken—the exact opposite of Christ’s model of pastoral care. • Social Media and the Illusion of Holiness – From curated personas online to platform culture in the church, Mike and Andy unpack how performative righteousness today mirrors ancient religious pride. Resources Mentioned: • Luke 11 – The “Woe” Passages: Jesus' rebuke of Pharisaical religion and hypocrisy • Larry Osborne’s book – “Accidental Pharisees: Avoiding Pride, Exclusivity, and the Dangers of Overzealous Faith” • Vox update and info on the Vox Community Church – www.voxoc.com • Voxology Spotify Channel: Voxology Radio Join us in this honest, sometimes hilarious, often convicting reflection on why Jesus’ harshest words were for the religious—and how his gentlest acts were always for outcasts, sinners, and the oppressed. Share your stories, wrestle with grace, and don't forget to subscribe, review, and follow Voxology on your favorite platforms. As always, we encourage and welcome discussion as we pursue truth together. Email us at hello@voxpodcast.com and engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube: VOXOLOGY TV Our Merch Store: ETSY – Voxology Learn more at voxologypodcast.com Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy Follow @voxologypodcast on Instagram and “like” us on Facebook for updates and new episode drops.  As always, we encourage and would love discussion as we pursue. Feel free to email in questions to hello@voxpodcast.com, and to engage the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. We're on YouTube (if you're into that kinda thing): VOXOLOGY TV. Our Merch Store! ETSY Learn more about the Voxology Podcast Subscribe on iTunes or Spotify Support the Voxology Podcast on Patreon The Voxology Spotify channel can be found here: Voxology Radio Follow us on Instagram: @voxologypodcast and "like" us on Facebook Follow Mike on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mikeerre Music in this episode by Timothy John Stafford Instagram & Twitter: @GoneTimothy