The Kevin Rooke Show

Udi Wertheimer is a developer by trade, and one of the most thought-provoking and controversial figures on Bitcoin Twitter. We’ve had a few back-and-forths on Lightning adoption on Twitter, so I wanted to do a full episode. In our talk, Udi explained his views on Bitcoin and the Lightning Network, the value of stablecoins, as well as the Metaverse, Web3, Web5, and tribalism in crypto. → Udi’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/udiWertheimer Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zeb.gg/rooke Before every show, I ask listeners on Twitter to send in their best questions for future guests. I read off all the questions for the guest, and pick one listener to receive a split of the sats earned for the episode. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 03:15 - Udi Wertheimer Intro 08:58 - How Udi’s Views on Decentralization Have Evolved 12:30 - The State of Bitcoin Development 32:32 - Scaling Bitcoin on the Lightning Network 55:59 - Taro & The Role of Stablecoins 1:12:33 - Lightning Wallet Usage 1:19:16 - The Lightning Round

William Casarin is a Bitcoin and Lightning developer working on a new project called Damus, built on the Nostr protocol. We had a technical discussion where William explained why he sees the Lightning Network as a communications layer for the Bitcoin economy, the ways the internet may evolve over time, and William’s work on LNLink, Nostr, and Damus. → Damus: https://damus.io/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ Before every show, I ask listeners on Twitter to send in their best questions for future guests. I read off all the questions for the guest, and pick one listener to receive a split of the sats earned for the episode. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 03:15 - William Casarin Intro 07:49 - BOLT12 10:35 - The Web and the Lightning Network 22:57 - Will Lightning be the Communications Layer of the Bitcoin Economy? 28:40 - The Issues with Centralized and Custodial Solutions on Lightning 40:28 - Building on Core Lightning vs. Other LN Implementations 45:52 - The Nostr Protocol & The Damus Client 59:51 - The Implications of Embedding Value in Internet Apps 1:08:01 - The Lightning Round

Max Webster is the founder of Hivemind Ventures, an early stage fund investing in Bitcoin startups building on the Lightning Network. In our conversation, Max explained why he’s investing in Lightning Network startups today, we explored the business opportunities for Lightning nodes, liquidity marketplaces, and emerging payment apps, and we got into startup valuations, identifying strong founders, and finding product-market fit in the Lightning ecosystem. → Hivemind Ventures: https://hivemind.vc/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ Before every show, I ask listeners on Twitter to send in their best questions for future guests. I read off all the questions for the guest, and pick one listener to receive a split of the sats earned for the episode. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:49 - Max Webster Intro 09:07 - How Lightning Solves Problems Crypto Can’t Solve 12:42 - Lightning Network Scalability 17:15 - Lightning Nodes & Railroad Networks 25:08 - Is Max Worried About Centralization on Lightning? 30:45 - Lightning Network Liquidity Marketplaces 38:33 - Emerging Lightning Native Applications 40:53 - Stacker News 55:36 - More Than 2 Billion People on Lightning in 2032 1:02:31 - Investing In Lightning Startups 1:14:45 - The Lightning Round

Jared Nusinoff is the founder and CEO of Mash, a Lightning powered platform helping anyone on the internet earn more for the content they create. In our conversation, Jared explained how Mash works, how independent creators can benefit from Mash in the same way independent retailers benefit from Shopify or Etsy, and the ways the internet will change when native payments are ubiquitous. → Mash: https://www.getmash.com/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ Before every show, I ask listeners on Twitter to send in their best questions for future guests. I read off all the questions for the guest, and pick one listener to receive a split of the sats earned for the episode. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:27 - Jared Nusinoff Intro 05:47 - How Does Mash Work? 07:00 - Why Is the Lightning Network Essential for Mash? 22:20 - Mash Enables Creators Like Shopify Enables Merchants 28:24 - Mash’s Total Addressable Market 37:50 - Pay As You Enjoy & Value 4 Value 42:06 - How Much Can Creators Earn on Mash? 54:51 - Web3, Web5, and the Future of the Internet 59:46 - The Lightning Round

Roy Sheinfeld is the co-founder and CEO of Breez, a self-custodial platform for streaming sats to podcasters, accepting payments as a merchant, and sending Bitcoin all on the Lightning Network. In our conversation, Roy shared insight into Breez adoption and the types of users on the app, and we explored the business of supplying liquidity on the Lightning Network. → Breez: https://breez.technology/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ At the end of every show, I answer any questions listeners send in over the Lightning Network. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:39 - Roy Sheinfeld Intro 11:20 - Streaming Sats on the Lightning Network 16:31 - Why Podcasts Adopted Lightning Before the Music Industry 25:26 - Breez’s Point of Sale System 31:48 - The Future of Payment Types on Lightning 39:06 - Breez’s Roadmap 52:16 - Lightning on the Internet vs. a Lightning Internet 57:59 - Breez’s Liquidity Service Provider Business 1:05:29 - The Lightning Round

Alex Leishman is the founder and CEO of River, a platform for buying Bitcoin that also happens to be one of the largest players on the Lightning Network. In our conversation, Alex explained why River launched their Lightning integration way back in 2019, we explored some of the new use cases Taro could unlock on Lightning, and examined the risk-reward tradeoffs of earning yield on Lightning vs. other forms of yield. → River: https://river.com/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ Before every show, I ask listeners on Twitter to send in their best questions for future guests. I read off all the questions for the guest, and pick one listener to receive a split of the sats earned for the episode. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:51 - Alex Leishman Intro 04:48 - Why Alex Built River 11:23 - Why River Integrated the Lightning Network 17:19 - Important Lightning Trends for River 25:59 - Will River Facilitate Asset Exchanges on Taro? 35:27 - Lessons Learned from Operating Lightning Routing Nodes 45:01 - Earning Yield on the Lightning Network 53:26 - Will Bitcoin Flow to Lightning As Yields Rise? 57:00 - Risks of Operating a Hot Lightning Wallet 59:14 - Exponential Lightning Network Growth 1:01:48 - The Lightning Round

Paul Itoi has built two of the most popular Lightning applications to date, Sphinx Chat and Stakwork. These platforms already enable people to chat and earn over the Lightning Network, and Paul’s vision for where these platforms will go next is incredible. In our wide-ranging conversation, Paul and I discussed the concept of earning Bitcoin, how AIs and humans can work together to truly build a world computer, and how decentralized knowledge graphs can help people learn faster than ever. → Sphinx: https://sphinx.chat/ → Stakwork: https://stakwork.ai/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ At the end of every show, I answer any questions listeners send in over the Lightning Network. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:26 - Paul Itoi Intro 05:29 - Why Build on Lightning? 10:36 - What is Stakwork? 14:53 - How Humans and AIs Can Work Together 21:10 - How Earning Bitcoin Can Change The Way We Work 32:52 - Stakwork’s Real World Impact Today 46:19 - Sphinx & Their Decentralized Knowledge Graph 51:47 - Knowledge Graph Use Cases 1:04:36 - What Else Will Be Built on Bitcoin? 1:08:49 - The Lightning Round

Michael Levin is a Product Manager at Lightning Labs, a company building tools to bring Bitcoin to billions. In our conversation, Michael and I discussed the dual adoption curves of Bitcoin, we explored the entire suite of Lightning Labs products, and we discussed Taro and the future of the Lightning Network. → Lightning Labs: https://lightning.engineering/ → The Dual Adoption Curves of Bitcoin (Part 1): https://michael-levin.medium.com/part-1-the-dual-adoption-curves-of-bitcoin-2ffafbc5d5e7 → The Dual Adoption Curves of Bitcoin (Part 2): https://michael-levin.medium.com/part-2-lightning-network-bitcoins-crossing-the-chasm-superpower-7fe4fd4702dc Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ At the end of every show, I answer any questions listeners send in over the Lightning Network. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:21 - Michael Levin Intro 05:27 - Bitcoin as an Asset & a Network 14:49 - The Lightning Network’s Crossing the Chasm Moment 17:33 - Value 4 Value 27:58 - Lightning Labs and LND 39:27 - Lightning Loop 44:40 - Lightning Pool 59:04 - Plebnet & The Role of Routing Node Operators 1:09:26 - Lightning Network Usage, Fees, and Capacity 1:15:06 - Taro and a Multi-Asset Lightning Network 1:30:46 - Lightning Network Predictions 1:39:24 - The Lightning Round

Henrik Skogstrøm is the founder of LN Capital, a company building capital management software for routing nodes. In our conversation, Henrik and I discussed LN Capital’s first product Torq, the challenges routing operators face today, the addressable market for Lightning Network payments, and the skill and capital requirements for being a successful Lightning node operator. → LN Capital: https://ln.capital/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ At the end of every show, I answer any questions listeners send in over the Lightning Network. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:07 - Henrik Skogstrøm Intro 07:27 - The Addressable Market for Lightning Routing 13:54 - Measuring Routing Efficiency on the Lightning Network 19:53 - Bitcoin as a Productive Asset 24:09 - Factors Affecting Lightning Income Yield 29:01 - Ways to Earn Yield on Lightning 38:45 - Automating Lightning Node Operations 43:04 - What Skills Make for Good Routing Node Operators? 53:56 - Regulations & the Lightning Network 57:45 - Lightning Network Predictions 1:05:40 - The Lightning Round

Rene Pickhardt is an independent researcher working on improving payments on the Lightning Network. In our talk, Rene explained his experience doing independent Bitcoin research, how multi-part payments and zero base fees can improve Lightning payments, and some of the limitations of the Lightning Network today. → Rene’s Website: https://ln.rene-pickhardt.de/ Sponsors → Voltage: https://voltage.cloud?utm_source=kevinrooke&utm_medium=Youtube&utm_campaign=1mo → ZEBEDEE: https://zbd.gg/ At the end of every show, I answer any questions listeners send in over the Lightning Network. To ask a question, send a message, or to support the show, download Fountain from the App Store and load your wallet with a few sats. → Fountain: https://www.fountain.fm/ → More Episodes: https://play.fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT → Lightning Address: ⚡kerooke@fountain.fm Links → Twitter: https://twitter.com/kerooke → Books: https://www.kevinrooke.com/book-recommendations → Blog: https://www.kevinrooke.com/blog Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 02:21 - Rene Pickhardt Intro 10:40 - Rene’s Experience Writing Mastering The Lightning Network 15:41 - Rene’s Experience as an Independent Researcher 27:41 - Multi-Part Payments 47:51 - Reliability, Fees, and Latency on Lightning 54:15 - Zero Base Fees 1:09:57 - Real-World Parallels for Lightning Network Architecture 1:16:41 - Limitations of the Lightning Network 1:21:01 - The Lightning Round