

BE THAT LAWYER
Steve Fretzin
BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 26, 2024 • 35min
Justie Nicol: Building a Culture of Trust and Respect Across Generations
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Justie Nicol discuss:Leading and selling without fear. Building your law firm to support you and your life. Systematizing your training processes and procedures. Running a virtual firm to invest in people over premises. Key Takeaways:There are no bad people, only bad decisions. As a lawyer, your job is to make sure that that bad decision doesn’t wreck the person’s life. Be the best you can be with the years you have with the amazing people you have. Sometimes things change and people move on and that’s okay. Self-care is extremely important for both you, as the leader, and for your team. Finding a way to be flexible and support your team in what they find most important can be culture-defining and still lead to a successful law firm. Check-ins don’t have to be scheduled and formalized. You can have informal meetings to make sure everyone is doing good and all on the same page. "Respect them for who they are and ask them, ‘Am I meeting your needs? Are you feeling like you can contribute in ways that are meaningful to you?’" — Justie Nicol Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Podcast - The ONE Thing: https://the1thing.com/podcast/ About Justie Nicol: Justie Nicol is a feisty, red-headed, nerdy, dog & toddler mom, with a variety of legal experience who’s actually a PERSON (human first, then attorney) and who wants to GENUINELY HELP her clients. Justie practices primarily criminal defense work but is also well-known for innovation, systems-design, and using legal tech to achieve great results for the firm and her clients. Justie is often teaching other lawyers about tech stacks, guest-lecturing at local universities about animal law, teaching animal control officers how to testify and investigate, or giving webinars on law firm automation. She is the Colorado Lawyer Team visionary. Justie owns two companies in Colorado and is a licensed real estate broker. Justie is a small-town girl and rural lawyer at heart and often travels to clients throughout the majority of the state of Colorado. Access to Justice is something she’s passionate about, so she keeps her costs down and is on many modest means lists for low-pay slow-pay representation. She enjoys long walks in the mountains (they’re called hikes in Colorado) and she’s horse-crazy. She’s active on social media (@Justie4Justice) where you can see regular appearances by #OfficeDogs and #OfficeHorse. She welcomes questions at any time via email to Justie@COLawTeam.com. Connect with Justie Nicol: Website: https://colawteam.com/Email: justie@colawteam.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justieforjustice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/COLawTeamInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/justie4justice Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 22, 2024 • 33min
Tim Lupinacci: Leading with Trust
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tim Lupinacci discuss:Time management and prioritization. Testing out leadership in smaller groups first. Learning from others to strengthen your leadership skills. Utilizing daily disciplines to support your leadership and your team. Key Takeaways:Get together and pour into people and allow them to pour into you. You’ll build relationships and strengthen all team members. Seeing people in action will allow you to get to know them and see their strengths and personalities. Building your team, and trusting them, will allow you to transition out of the day-to-day work as you release responsibility to them and start focusing more on your zone of genius and your leadership. Don’t neglect your self-care. Checking in with yourself (either alone or with a professional) is vital for leading successfully. "My experience has been when you build that trust, then the pie gets bigger because now you've got multiple people who can have those relationships because we've got that finite amount of time." — Tim Lupinacci Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Four Disciplines of Execution by Chris McChesney, Sean Covey, and Jim Huling: https://www.amazon.com/Disciplines-Execution-Achieving-Wildly-Important/dp/145162705XMeredith Bell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredithmbell About Tim Lupinacci: Tim Lupinacci spent the first 28 years of his legal practice focused on helping financial institutions solve complex problems arising in commercial restructuring and bankruptcy matters throughout the country. During his leadership journey at Baker Donelson, Tim chaired the Financial Services Department, the Women’s Pathways to Leadership Committee, and served as a member of the Firm’s Diversity & Inclusion Committee. He was awarded with the Firm’s highest award for both advancement and support of women and advancement and support of minorities. Four years ago, he was selected as CEO and Chair of Baker Donelson, which is one of the 100 largest law firms in the country. In these positions, he has led the Firm through significant organizational change, growth, and the global pandemic. He continues leading Baker Donelson through its five-year BakerVision 2028 strategy, and the execution of its Diversity & Inclusion Compact. Connect with Tim Lupinacci: Website: https://www.bakerdonelson.com/Website: https://www.bakerdonelson.com/Timothy-LupinacciWebsite: https://everybodyleads.org/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/addison-diana/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 19, 2024 • 35min
Julie Yusim: Building Your Law Practice by Playing the Networking Long Game
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Julie Yusim discuss:Adding a little positive self-talk to your routine. Getting value for your networking time. Going deep and playing the networking long game. Evaluating your wide network to see where you should go deeper. Best tips and tactics for effective networking. Key Takeaways:Networking is about giving, more than anything, especially at the beginning, even if you don’t see how it is going to come back to you. Have a couple of things that you can give in your back pocket, even if you are new to networking. Most networking relationships evolve and mature over time. Get to know those in your smaller circle best, but don’t ignore others in your network. Following up is where the networking really starts. Make notes about the person and conversation you had, then make sure you follow up specifically, not in a blast email selling your services. "The good news is networking works. The less-than-good news is networking is work. It’s not a horrible amount of work, it’s not taxing, it’s not expensive, but there is a process that if you want to be successful at it, you need to follow." — Julie Yusim Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: ProVisors: https://provisors.com/Boomerang for Outlook: https://www.boomerangoutlook.com/Book: Endless Referrals by Bob Burg - https://www.amazon.com/Endless-Referrals-Third-Bob-Burg/dp/0071462074 About Julie Yusim: Julie Yusim has spent the majority of her career coaching small business owners. She served as Executive Director of a Chicago-area Chamber of Commerce for 17 years, where she taught business owners to how maximize their marketing and networking efforts. As the Director of Marketing for a family-owned chain of auto repair shops, Julie built the company’s brand awareness through extensive networking and marketing. Before consulting full-time, Julie studied and mastered the marketing and compliance systems of a leading U.S. insurance company in order to build the personal brands for successful agent/owners. Julie is an enthusiast of grass-roots marketing techniques and is well-known in Chicago-area business circles as an expert “connector” of people and resources. Julie sits on the Board of Directors for Hunger Resource Network and is an Ambassador for the Northbrook Chamber of Commerce and Industry. Connect with Julie Yusim: Website: https://www.ideamaxmktg.com/Email: julie@ideamaxmktg.comPhone: 847-975-5257LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-yusim-4aa23713a/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/julie.yusim/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552727541602Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/networkinggoddess Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 15, 2024 • 32min
Lisa Katz: Building a Powerful Relationship-Based Book of Business
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Lisa Katz discuss:Starting to build your book of business from early in your career. Providing value to your clients with a network of other service providers. Things you need to know when working with counsel. The playbook for building a book of business. Having the hard conversations to experience the growth. Key Takeaways:Everything is consecutive and cumulative, the more you meet with someone and have great, but shorter conversations, the more impact it will have than one multiple-hour conversation. It’s not about the client, it is about the person behind the relationship you are building. The longer you network and connect, the more you learn and grow and keep the connections that fit you and you fit them. Everybody wins when you’re able to connect and solve each other’s problems or connect them with the person who can. Your internal network at a law firm is just as important as your external connections. "Revisiting conversations with the same people at multiple conversations makes sense because factors change. Take time to do that, even committing to a couple hours a week or 20 minutes a day." — Lisa Katz Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Book: Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg - https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Women-Work-Will-Lead/dp/0385349947 About Lisa Katz: Lisa Katz is half a healthcare lawyer, half a finance lawyer, and all broker all the time. She prides herself in being a strategic partner with her clients by acting as an outside general counsel to her healthcare provider clients and by representing numerous banks and private lenders on their healthcare finance transactions. Connect with Lisa Katz: Website: https://www.polsinelli.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-katz-17bb1321/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/polsinelli/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 12, 2024 • 32min
Andy Hite: Clearing the Head Trash to Be The Change
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andy Hite discuss:Practicing the change you want to see now. How leadership done right can change the world. Emotional intelligence and its role in leading a team and developing a strong culture. Building a strong culture.Uncovering the stories we tell ourselves, and challenging those stories. Key Takeaways:Do it now. You don’t need to wait to see the changes that you want to see in the world. Try now and make changes every day to be closer to what and who you want to be. Emotional intelligence is the true distinguisher between management and leadership. Leaders do need to manage, but managers don’t need to lead. Cultivating both skills creates impactful organizations. Releasing control will allow you to practice things that will allow you to be an effective leader. You only have so much capacity. Your values need to be more important than revenue. "A business is a macrocosm of individuals living out values. If someone really wants a strong culture, they have to define ‘Who do we want to be as an organization? What values do we want to espouse?’ Then filter every decision, action, and way of being in the world through those values." — Andy Hite Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Podcast: The Diary of a CEO with Steven Bartlett - https://stevenbartlett.com/the-diary-of-a-ceo-podcast/ProVisors - https://provisors.com/ About Andy Hite: Andy Hite is a recognized executive coach who supports entrepreneurs, executives, and their teams as they navigate the world of building businesses and lives filled with prosperity, meaning, & freedom. Connect with Andy Hite: Website: http://www.scalingminds.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-hite/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-SturkieAudio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 8, 2024 • 35min
Pratik Shah: Taking Your Business Development and Legal Tech to the Next Level
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Pratik Shah discuss:Committing to the process, not just the result, of business development. Tips to develop positive business development habits.Looking out for everyone in your business network. Going deep and wide in the right areas of your network. Key Takeaways:You should have a plan going into your networking event. There is more to it than just showing up and being in the room. Have a committed schedule for progressing your business development routine forward. You can then plan around it if it is on your schedule. Don’t be a professional taker - by helping others you will get so much more out of it. With the way legal tech is developing, you will, eventually, not have a choice to switch or start using it. Don’t be afraid to jump in and start learning to help your clients and your employees. Bring your team in to identify pain points and have someone review the tech options that could help to solve those problems. "Put in inquiries. The more options you see out there, the more you will see what fits with your firm. Every firm is so different, it is impossible to say which tech your firm should have." — Pratik Shah Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: The Lawyerist: https://lawyerist.com/Bob Ambrogi’s Blog: https://www.lawnext.com/Podcast: The Game with Alex Hormozi About Pratik Shah: Pratik serves as the CEO and co-founder of EsquireTek a leading technology platform used by litigation attorneys to help automate written discovery he is also the Associate Director of Litigation at Panish Shea Boyle Ravipudi where he focuses on business development for the firm as well as trial and litigation strategy. Connect with Pratik Shah: Website: http://www.psbr.law/Website: http://www.esquiretek.com/Email: pshah@esquiretek.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pratik-shah-8916198/Instagram: https://instagram.com/esquiretekInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecloseresq Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 5, 2024 • 33min
Mary Adkins: Changing Your Mindset About Writing Your Own Book
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mary Adkins discuss:Why you should consider writing a book today. Building trust as an author. Moving past the things keeping you from following your dream of writing a book. Tips to break down a big project into manageable bites. Key Takeaways:For many people, books are a medium that they enjoy and help them learn and retain information more than a video or audio might do. Books can replace your business card - one will do more for you than the other. Book writing is often less time and less work than people assume it will be. There are increasingly more reasons to self-publish, but there are pros and cons with both traditional publishing and self-publishing. For the first time in 2023, self-publish books are making more than traditionally published books. "A major skill set lawyers have that not a lot of people have is 1) getting their head around massive amounts of information and organizing it - which is very helpful when you’re working with a book, and 2) understanding the idea of having an outline or a skeleton that you’re going to flesh out." — Mary Adkins Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan About Mary Adkins: Mary Adkins is a writing coach and founder of The Book Incubator, a 12-month program to write, revise, and pitch your novel or memoir. She is author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick, “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping and Real Simple), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read,” New York Post “Best Book of the Week”), and Palm Beach (recently named one of the New York Post’s “Best Books of 2021”). Her books have been published in 13 countries, and her essays and reporting have appeared in the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. A graduate of Yale Law School and Duke University, she helps aspiring authors finish their books with joy and clarity. You can apply for The Book Incubator by going to apply.maryadkinswriter.com. Connect with Mary Adkins: Website: https://maryadkinswriter.com/Website: https://thebookincubator.com/Show: https://maryadkinswriter.com/podcastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-adkins/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adkinsmary/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Feb 1, 2024 • 35min
Jordan Ostroff: Applying a Litigation Mindset to Your Life
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jordan Ostroff discuss:How business planning and life planning are more similar than you might think.Building a life that makes you happy.Helping yourself make the right choices, not the wrong ones.Achieving multiple outcomes from the same action (not multitasking). Key Takeaways:Put a team together to support you so you can focus on the things that are your unique talent - in your business, and in your personal life.What low-hanging fruit are you overlooking that could change the game?Start making small changes, they will add up and result in massive changes in less time than you think.You are not the best at most things - delegate the things that you aren’t the best at. Know your limitations. "You’re not sacrificing the work, you’re empowering somebody else who is better at these things to do them better than you would." — Jordan Ostroff Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobookGiveaway: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QjhaqoRqFKG1D0mZvyFDfPIOVn0iXrU8O-1wtM8FVQE/edit Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Atomic Habits Summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ7lDrwYdZcAtomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habitsThe Four Tendencies - Gretchen Rubin: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/Delivering Happiness by Tony Hsieh: https://www.amazon.com/Delivering-Happiness-Profits-Passion-Purpose/dp/0446576220 About Jordan Ostroff: Jordan Ostroff is a successful lawyer and visionary entrepreneur. After working as a prosecutor for the State Attorney's Office, Jordan founded his own firm, Driven Law in 2015, a personal injury firm that focuses on using technology and automation to provide top-level legal work with care and compassion. Over the next few years, he went from a struggling lawyer to a successful business owner. He has made it his life’s goal to help more law firm owners run a firm they can be proud of and live a life that’s even better! Connect with Jordan Ostroff: Website: https://jordanostroff.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jordan.ostroffInstagram: https://instagram.com/lawyerwithalife Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Jan 29, 2024 • 35min
Bo Royal: Simplicity in Legal Marketing
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Bo Royal discuss:The most common mistakes law firms make on their websites and landing pages. Why you should have A/B Testing on your website. Understanding where your website traffic comes from. Tips to improve law firm websites and landing pages immediately. Key Takeaways:Focus optimization on a few key pages - you do not need to overhaul your whole website anytime there’s an issue. Invest in high-quality photo (and video) content on your website that educates your clients on who you are, who you serve, and what you’re all about. Phone calls tend to be the most high-quality leads - have a click-to-call functionality on your website. Don’t underestimate social proof. Nothing is going to sell your law firm better than a client testimonial. "All of the tracking needs to be owned by the law firm. It cannot be something that the agency owns. That data is invaluable to the law firm in the long run." — Bo Royal Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Intaker: https://intaker.com/home/Modern Wisdom Podcast: https://chriswillx.com/podcast/ About Bo Royal: Bo Royal is a former Fortune 500 advertising agency executive turned law firm marketing expert. After holding leadership positions at eBay's marketing solutions division and scaling the online advertising revenues of a variety of well-known brands, such as Calvin Klein, Bo pivoted into the world of legal marketing six years ago and never looked back. Today, Bo co-owns and operates Pareto Legal, a growth marketing agency positioned to help small and medium-sized law firms add an extra 7 figures in cases to their pipeline. Connect with Bo Royal: Website: https://legal.paretoppc.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bo-royal/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pareto-legal/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Jan 25, 2024 • 36min
Frank Agin: Next Level Networking Rap Battle
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Frank Agin discuss:Why networking isn’t pushed in law school. The science of networking and why networking is like golf. The power of small talk (and why it actually works). The three reasons lawyers do not get referrals. Key Takeaways:Networking is really about building relationships and helping others.You have to help people to help you. If they don’t know what you do or what you are looking for, they won’t know how to refer you or that you even are looking for more business. People need help from you to recognize the referral opportunities and, perhaps, even the empowering language to know what to say. Build relationships outside of the organizations you’re a part of. Meet a few of them on a deeper level, add value to their lives, and it will come around in spades. "Find something you’re passionate about and get out and volunteer. Get out there, put yourself out there with people who care about the same thing you do, and you’ll be amazed and what comes from that." — Frank AginSign up for How to Become a Rainmaker to Achieve Work-Life Balance with Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman at https://fretzin.com/events. Thank you to our Sponsors!Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/ Episode References: Three New People by Brian MillerFoundational Networking by Frank AginNetworking Rx Podcast About Frank Agin: Frank Agin is president of AmSpirit Business Connections, which empowers entrepreneurs, sales representatives and professionals to become successful through networking.He also shares information and insights on professional relationships, business networking, and best practices for generating referrals under the brand name Networking Rx. This is done via the Networking Rx podcast or the Networking Rx content sharing platform which can be found at www.networking-rx.com.Finally, Frank is the author of several books, including Foundational Networking. See all his books and programs at www.frankagin.com. Connect with Frank Agin: Website: https://www.amspirit.com/Books: https://www.frankagin.com/Podcast: https://networking-rx.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankagin/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/amspirit-business-connections/Twitter: https://twitter.com/frankaginTwitter: https://twitter.com/amspiritFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/frankaginFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/amspiritbusinessconnectionsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/frankagin43/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amspiritbc/ Connect with Steve Fretzin:LinkedIn: Steve FretzinTwitter: @stevefretzinInstagram: @fretzinsteveFacebook: Fretzin, Inc.Website: Fretzin.comEmail: Steve@Fretzin.comBook: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!YouTube: Steve FretzinCall Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.