On this episode of This vs. That, we tackle the complex balance between church and family priorities in ministry life. We welcome special guests Jenna Allen and Stephanie Gilbert from Pastors' Wives Tell All who share raw, honest perspectives about navigating the demands of church leadership while protecting family wellbeing. Through candid conversation, we explore how to set healthy boundaries, support children in ministry families, and handle expectations from congregations. Our guests offer practical wisdom about making tough choices when church and family needs conflict, and share how their approaches have evolved over years in ministry.The episode concludes with rapid-fire advice for pastors, their spouses, church staff, and congregations, along with valuable resource recommendations for ministry families. Join us for this insightful discussion about finding balance in the intersection of church leadership and family life.---In this episode we mention The Pastors' Wives Cohort from Anchored Virtual - an eight-week virtual program offering weekly teachings and counselor-led small groups, creating a supportive space to navigate ministry life together.For more information about the cohort visit www.anchoredvirtual.com/cohort---We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide.In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways.To listen search for Consult the Counselor wherever you listen to podcasts.---- Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana.This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith.Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore how to effectively help those suffering from depression without unintentionally causing more harm. Our guest Kathryn Butler, a former trauma surgeon turned writer, shares her unique perspective from both sides of depression - as a medical professional and as someone who has experienced it personally.We discuss the complexities of depression, including its various causes and manifestations, the role of antidepressants, and how to approach Scripture in ways that offer genuine comfort rather than quick fixes. Kathryn shares powerful insights about the deadening of joy that comes with depression and offers practical wisdom for both sufferers and those walking alongside them.Through our conversation, we explore how the church can better understand depression as both a spiritual and physical reality, moving beyond simplistic solutions to offer Christ-centered hope and presence to those who struggle.---We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide.In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways.To listen search for Consult the Counselor wherever you listen to podcasts.---- Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana.This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith.Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc⁠⁠⁠⁠

Collin Hansen, vice president and editor-in-chief of The Gospel Coalition and author, discusses the tension between hope and despair amidst suffering. He explores where God is during evil and shares insights from his forthcoming book. Hansen highlights the role of lament in worship and the importance of building resilient hope within church communities. He delves into the impact of technology on our perception of suffering, using Job's story to emphasize the depth of human experience. Ultimately, he calls for a genuine engagement with hope that acknowledges life's complexities.

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the challenging balance between anxious parenting vs. parenting with hope. We're joined by author and speaker Melissa Kruger, who brings wisdom and practical insights to this important conversation.We discuss how parental anxiety manifests in different seasons - from checking if babies are breathing to teaching teens to drive. We examine how social media amplifies parenting pressures and the overwhelming number of choices modern parents face.Through personal stories and biblical wisdom, we unpack how anxiety can shape our reactions to everyday situations and explore the difference between normal parental concern and anxiety that controls our homes. Melissa shares her journey of prioritizing spiritual disciplines as anchors in parenting and reminds us that our children's journey doesn't end at 18.If you've ever found yourself lying awake wondering if you're doing enough as a parent, this conversation offers hope and practical wisdom for the journey.---We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide.In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways.To listen search for Consult the Counselor wherever you listen to podcasts.---- Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana.This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith.Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc⁠⁠

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the important distinction between practical theology and prideful theology with guest Wendy Alsup, author and math professor. We discuss how true theology should lead to humility and practical life changes, while examining why theological discussions sometimes become prideful and condescending. Through personal stories and biblical wisdom, we unpack how genuine knowledge of God naturally results in humility and transformed lives. Together, we consider ways to foster meaningful theological discussions that build up the church rather than create division, and explore how our understanding of God directly shapes our daily actions and emotions.---We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide.In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways.To listen search for Consult the Counselor wherever you listen to podcasts.---- Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana.This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith.Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc⁠

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the complex relationship between neglecting and embracing emotions with Joe Hussung, Director of Ministry Partnership and Senior Counselor atFieldstone Counseling. Our conversation examines the role of emotions in the Christian life, cultural differences in emotional expression, and how the Bible speaks to our emotional experiences.Joe brings unique insights from his doctoral work on empathy, his personal journey with anxiety, and his extensive counseling experience. We discuss how different cultural backgrounds, including religious traditions, shape our emotional responses. Through examining Biblical examples, particularly the Psalms, we explore how Scripture provides guidance for understanding and expressing our emotions in healthy ways.The conversation also addresses practical challenges like managing emotions in our busy modern lives and finding ways to stay emotionally present while navigating demanding schedules. Joe's upcoming bookLearning to Listen: Essential Skills for Every Counselor releases March 24th.---We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide.In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways.To listen search for Consult the Counselor wherever you listen to podcasts.---- Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana.This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith.Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at⁠⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the fascinating topic of good stress versus bad stress with our guest Eliza Huie, Director of Counseling at McLean Bible Church and biblical counseling instructor at Reform Theological Seminary. We discuss how certain types of stress can actually be beneficial for growth and motivation, while other forms can be detrimental to our wellbeing. Drawing from her expertise as a licensed professional counselor and author of "I'm Stressed: A Path from Pressure to Peace," we examine the differences between "eustress" (good stress) and "distress" (bad stress). We also explore how stress can strengthen us physically, mentally, and spiritually, while uncovering practical ways to manage and understand the role of stress in our daily lives. Resources Mentioned: Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care by Eliza Huie I’m Stressed: A Path from Pressure to Peace by Eliza Huie Knowing God by Jerry Bridges Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers by Robert M. Sapolsky Gentle and Lowly: The Heart of Christ for Sinners and Sufferers by Dane Ortlund The Knowledge of the Holy by A.W. Tozer --- We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide. In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways. To listen search for Consult the Counselor wherever you listen to podcasts. ----  Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana. This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith. Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc

On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Robert Cheong, founder of Gospel Care Ministries and former pastor of care at Sojourn Church Midtown. We explore the critical distinction between normal ministry tiredness and burnout, discussing how we can recognize the signs when regular exhaustion begins shifting toward burnout. Drawing from his extensive pastoral experience, Robert shares valuable insights on maintaining healthy rhythms in ministry and understanding the challenges faced by church leaders today. Whether you're in vocational ministry, serving in your local church, or simply want to support those in ministry, this conversation offers practical wisdom for navigating the complexities of spiritual leadership while maintaining personal well-being. Resources Mentioned Gospel Care Ministries Restoration Story: Why Jesus Matters in a Broken World – Robert Cheong Restore: Changing How We Live and Love – Robert Cheong God Redeeming His Bride: A Handbook for Church Discipline – Robert Cheong Gentle and Lowly: The Heart of Christ for Sinners and Sufferers – Dane Ortlund You’re Only Human: How Your Limits Reflect God’s Design and Why That’s Good News – Kelly Kapic The Imperfect Pastor: Discovering Joy in Our Limitations through a Daily Apprenticeship with Jesus – Zack Eswine The Unwavering Pastor: Leading the Church with Grace in Divisive Times – Jonathan Dodson A Praying Life: Connecting with God in a Distracting World – Paul E. Miller Abide in Christ – Andrew Murray The Night Is Normal: A Guide Through Spiritual Pain – Alicia Britt Chole ----  Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana. This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith. Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc

On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Toni Collier, founder of Broken Crayons Still Color. We explore the powerful contrast between hiding vs. healing, as Toni shares her journey from a challenging childhood to becoming an author and speaker. We discuss what it truly means to heal, the importance of being honest with our pain, and how we can find hope and security in Christ even when life falls apart. With raw authenticity, Toni helps us understand that healing isn't about erasing our pain, but rather increasing our capacity to hold it while walking in faith. Books Mentioned Brave Enough to be Broken by Toni Collier Boundaries for Your Soul by Dr. Alison Cook --- ⁠ Anchored Virtual⁠ provides practical help to those hurting, by anchoring their hope in Jesus, and helping others gain a better understanding of his promises. We offer reputable, biblical counsel to those suffering or experiencing difficult seasons. Our counselors are highly trained, and bring a vast experience in addressing the various issues of life. To meet with a counselor, visit ⁠anchoredvirtual.com⁠ and schedule an appointment today. --- We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide. In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways. The first episode drops February 1st. I hope you'll join us. ----  Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana. This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith. Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at ⁠anchoredvirtual.com/tgc

On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the fascinating tension between fear of man and fear of God with special guest Ed Welch and guest co-host Jonathan Holmes, Executive Director of Fieldstone Counseling. We trace Ed's journey of writing his influential book "When People Are Big and God Is Small," which began as a response to the codependency movement of the 1980s. Through our conversation, we discover how Ed's perspective shifted from a sharp critique of cultural trends to a more pastoral approach as he began seeing these themes everywhere in Scripture. We discuss the evolution from codependency to today's independent mindset, and explore how the fear of God isn't about being afraid, but rather about awe and reverence that draws us closer to Him. Through personal stories and biblical wisdom, we unpack what it means to love Jesus more than we love the approval of others. ---  Anchored Virtual provides practical help to those hurting, by anchoring their hope in Jesus, and helping others gain a better understanding of his promises. We offer reputable, biblical counsel to those suffering or experiencing difficult seasons. Our counselors are highly trained, and bring a vast experience in addressing the various issues of life. To meet with a counselor, visit anchoredvirtual.com and schedule an appointment today. --- We're really excited to tell you about Anchored Virtual's new podcast, Consult the Counselor. There are very few spaces that are designed for long form conversations on difficult counseling topics. On Consult a Counselor, that's what we want to provide. In each episode, we invite two of our counselors at Anchored Virtual into a deep dive conversation on a counseling topic. Once a month, we'll release episodes on issues such as addictions, trauma, church hurt, infertility, forgiveness, abuse, and more. You'll get to hear expert counselors discuss the nuances and challenges of these issues and ultimately apply the hope of the gospel in practical and meaningful ways. The first episode drops February 1st. I hope you'll join us. ----  Have you ever experienced the pain of church hurt? Whether it's disappointment caused by leaders, hurtful actions from fellow members, or wounds from the larger church community, these experiences can leave us wondering why we should stay. Join us for Finding Purpose and the Pain of Church Hurt, an auxiliary event at the Gospel Coalition Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana. This special session will take place on Wednesday, April 23rd from 4:45 to 6 p. m. hosted by Anchored Virtual. Join Rebekah Hannah, Dr. Michael Keller, and Dr. Michael Kruger, as they explore how God can transform even the deepest wounds into growth, resilience, and renewed faith. Whether you're in the pew or the pulpit, this session will speak to anyone navigating the hard realities of church hurt. Join us online or in person. You can register now at anchoredvirtual.com/tgc