Talk About Talk - Communication Skills Training

Introducing yourself shouldn’t be something you dread. Learn a 3-point self-introduction framework (not a script!) plus 4 general tips for introducing yourself effectively. Introducing yourself is a rare opportunity to highlight your personal brand! RESOURCES   Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20minconsult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:            https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #86 INTRODUCTIONS – How to Introduce Yourself appeared first on Talk About Talk.

What is jargon? Learn about buzzwords, corporate jargon and “big words,” including why we use these words, their impact (it’s not always negative!) and how we can learn to avoid jargon.  Words matter! JARGON RESOURCES   David Ogilvy: http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/02/how-to-write.html Annoying business buzzwords: https://www.trustradius.com/buyer-blog/annoying-business-buzzwords Annoying Buzzwords: https://fortune.com/2021/07/07/most-annoying-buzzwords-2021/ https://www.trustradius.com/buyer-blog/annoying-business-buzzwords Political Jargon: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-39418204  Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20minconsult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:            https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #85 WATCH YOUR JARGON – WORDS MATTER appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Strategic Principles of PERSONAL BRANDING: Before you start promoting your Personal Brand, you need to articulate what it is! Learn the 3 strategic principles of Personal Branding, plus the most common mistake that people make when crafting their Personal Brand. PRINCIPLES OF PERSONAL BRANDING RESOURCES   Podcast Episodes #77 PERSONAL BRANDING: Reinforcing your Personal Brand with Implicit Communication #71 PERSONAL BRANDING, AUTHENTICITY & TMI with Tom Megginson #68 Communicating Your PERSONAL BRAND ONLINE #9 RE-IMAGINING YOUR PERSONAL BRAND – with CEO & team performance expert Michael Boydell Newsletters 10 Steps to update your personal brand online Developing Your Personal Brand ONLINE Personal Brand Personal Branding: Navigating the Authenticity-TMI Tension 5 Insights to Strengthen Your PERSONAL BRAND Reinforcing your Personal Brand with Implicit Communication  Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20minconsult – Book Andrea LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:            https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #84 Strategic Principles of PERSONAL BRANDING appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Do you suffer from IMPOSTER SYNDROME? Most of us do! Learn exactly what imposter syndrome is, how to avoid or alleviate imposter syndrome, and some good news: how the discourse (talk) about imposter syndrome has evolved. RESOURCES   IMPOSTER SYNDROME “The 4 Ps of Preparing to Communicate with Confidence” Talk About Talk podcast episode #59 – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/58-communicate-with-confidence-mental-preparation/ “The ABCDEs of Communicating with Confidence in the Moment” Talk About Talk podcast episode #59 – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/59-communicate-with-confidence-in-the-moment/ Natalie Portman’s commencement speech – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDaZu_KEMCY Psychologists Clance & Imes research – https://www.paulineroseclance.com/pdf/ip_high_achieving_women.pdf EVERYONE suffers from imposter syndrome! – https://hbr.org/2016/07/everyone-suffers-from-imposter-syndrome-heres-how-to-handle-it Changing toxic work environments – https://hbr.org/2021/02/stop-telling-women-they-have-imposter-syndrome. “Confidence doesn’t equal competence.” – https://hbr.org/2013/08/why-do-so-many-incompetent-men Men including Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz – https://hbr.org/2013/08/why-do-so-many-incompetent-men Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Free 20minconsult – Book Andrea  LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:            https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #83 Let’s Talk IMPOSTER SYNDROME appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Introvert or extrovert – which one are you?  Learn 3 common misconceptions about the introvert/extrovert scale and how to leverage this personality dimension to help you manage your energy and your relationships with others. RESOURCES   Introvert vs Extrovert INC magazine – https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/are-you-shy-or-introverted-science-says-this-is-1-primary-difference.html Forbes – https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffboss/2015/09/10/6-facts-you-should-know-about-introverts-that-have-significant-leadership-implications/#390621e2182d FastCompany – https://www.fastcompany.com/90232763/5-things-youre-getting-wrong-about-extroverts “QUIET: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking” by Susan Cain https://amzn.to/3hlu7Rt Personality tests Myers-Briggs MBTI – http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/extraversion-or-introversion.htm?bhcp=1 personality test: https://d3jc3ahdjad7x7.cloudfront.net/spokaLTFBEADL9JnMd7njgJd96nyp7YNgICG2tlJWifcI7GP.pdf wiki page: extraversion/introversion Big 5 Personality Test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Weekly Email Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Book Andrea for a free 20min “communication skills training” consult Andrea on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Profanity (clean version) – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/23s2-clean-profanity-talking-taboo-with-linguistics-professor-darin-flynn/ Profanity (explicit version) – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/23s2-explicit-profanity-talking-taboo-with-linguistics-professor-darin-flynn/ THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:         https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #82 Am I an INTROVERT or an EXTROVERT? appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Taboo topics are sacred or prohibited based on morals, religion or social norms. Learn how to respond to taboo topics and the significance of context when it comes to taboos. What’s considered taboo depends on the time in history, the generation, the person, the setting, even the medium. People seem to feel more comfortable reading or listening and less comfortable talking about taboos!   TABOO SUMMARY   DEFINITION of TABOO Taboo topics are “unacceptable,” “prohibited,” “disallowed,” and/or “forbidden.” Taboos are words or behaviours that are sacred or prohibited based on morals, religion, or norms. CONTEXT IS KEY FOR TABOOS What’s considered taboo depends on the time in history, the generation, the person, the setting, even the medium. Time in history: Consider how racism evolved from being a taboo topic altogether, to being something that is commonly and explicitly discussed. (Other previously taboo topics: living together or having a child outside of marriage, phone calls after 9pm, girls wearing pants, tattoos, sexuality and particularly LGBTQ+,…) Generations & people: Consider what’s sacred to talk to our kids about vs what’s sacred in conversations with our parents. The setting: Consider what’s sacred to talk about at work versus what’s sacred in conversations at the dinner table. The medium: We might feel more comfortable reading or listening, and less comfortable talking about taboos 20 COMMONLY REFERENCED TABOO TOPICS ABORTION BODILY FUNCTIONS & EXCREMENT CANNIBALISM CO-WORKERS DEATH & DYING FOREIGN POLICY GOSSIP INCEST JOB-CHANGING MARITAL ISSUES MEDICAL/HEALTH PROBLEMS MENTAL HEALTH MONEY PROFANITY POLITICS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS SALARIES SEX & SEXUALITY SOMEONE ELSE’S SPOUSE SUICIDE 4 RESPONSES TO TABOO TOPICS Smile and nod… Call it out Listen and learn Change the subject! RESOURCES   Talk About Talk Podcast Episodes on Taboo Topics Profanity (clean version) – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/23s2-clean-profanity-talking-taboo-with-linguistics-professor-darin-flynn/ Profanity (explicit version) – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/23s2-explicit-profanity-talking-taboo-with-linguistics-professor-darin-flynn/ Personal Branding, Authenticity & TMI (taboo topics across the generations) – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/71-personal-branding-authenticity-tmi/ Youth Mental Health – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/36-youth-mental-health/ Money – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/35-money/ Death & Grieving – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/19s2-supporting-our-grieving-friends-with-psychotherapist-grief-counsellor-andrea-warnick/ Talking to Your Doctor – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/20s2-talking-to-your-doctor-with-north-york-general-hospital-ceo-dr-joshua-tepper/ Other Taboo References Taboo Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo Changing taboo topics: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/social-taboos-_n_5564560 Taboo topics – at work: https://resumeperk.com/blog/top-taboo-topics-you-should-never-discuss-with-colleagues Taboo topics – world: https://resumeperk.com/blog/top-taboo-topics-you-should-never-discuss-with-colleagues Taboo topics – Canada: https://thecanadaguide.com/culture/manners-and-etiquette/ Talking Racism: https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=AH%2FR005362%2F1 https://www.learningforjustice.org/classroom-resources/lessons/talking-about-race-and-racism https://healthier.stanfordchildrens.org/en/discussing-racism/ https://www.jstor.org/stable/3097072?seq=1 Talking sexuality: https://ok2bme.ca/resources/kids-teens/what-does-lgbtq-mean/ Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Weekly Email Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Book Andrea for a free 20min “communication skills training” consult Andrea on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ TRANSCRIPT   Can you guess what the most common communication-related topic is that I get questions about from Talk About Talk listeners? This is kind of a trick Q, since this is the TALKING TABOO episode.  But No, it’s not taboo topics. It’s confidence! I guess that’s not surprising. People are keen to learn tips to help them elevate their confidence.  They want to learn how to get rid of the jitters and appear more confident and credible.  But here’s the interesting thing. When I check traffic to the talkabouttalk.com website – there’s a different story. According to Google Analytics, the number one page on the talkabouttalk.com website for organic hits – that’s where people are most likely to land when they come to the talk about talk website? It’s a page called TALKING TABOOS. It’s a link to a newsletter I wrote just over 2 years ago, focusing on taboo topics. Obviously Taboo topics are something that people want to read about. They want to learn about taboo topics. But nobody ever asks me about taboo topics. But they don’t really seem to want to talk about taboo topics. Well, that’s exactly what we’re going to do today. We’re going to talk about taboo topics. Greetings and welcome to Talk About Talk. I’m your communication coach, Dr. Andrea Wojnicki (please call me Andrea!). Whether you’re an ambitious executive, looking to catapult your career by improving your communication skills, or maybe you’re a podcaster?  Either way, if you have a strong growth mindset – you’re always looking to learn and improve your communication skills, then  you’re in the right place.  At Talk About Talk, we focus on communication-skills-topics like personal branding, listening confidence, and storytelling. This is the critically important stuff they don’t teach you in school. It’s what takes you from a B+ to an A+ in whatever it is you do.  And if you check out the TalkAboutTalk.com website, you’ll find online corporate training, 1-on-1 coaching with me, online courses, the free weekly communication-skills newsletter, and, of course, the archive of this bi-weekly podcast. I really hope you’ll go to the website and sign up for the free weekly communication skills training newsletter. But you can choose what works for you! Welcome to Talk About Talk episode number 81!  In this episode! In this episode, we talk all about taboo topics. As in what is taboo, how taboo topics change over time and across contexts, what topics are considered taboo and why, And perhaps most importantly, for our context of thinking about communicating effectively at work… We’re going to talk about what to do when people start talking taboo at work. Yes! It happens. And we have to deal with it. You’re going to learn how. OK – let’s get into this. As always, you don’t need to take notes, because I do that for you. I simplify and summarize everything for you at the end of the episode And you can always access the episode shownotes on the talkabouttalk.com website. So just keep doing whatever you’re doing – driving or walking or housework, or whatever. Let’s start with the basics. What is taboo? And what is it about taboo topics that makes them so… alluring? So enticing? Why is that the Talking Taboos page is the number one hit on the TalkAboutTalk website? The word TABOO comes from the Tongan TAPU, the Fijian TABU, or the Polynesian TABU, (spelled TABU) and it translates to “unacceptable,” “prohibited,” “disallowed,” and/or “forbidden.” Taboos are words or behaviours that are sacred or prohibited based on morals, religion, or norms. Sacred or prohibited. Got that? And based on moral or religious grounds. Or norms. Of course, we have morals. Morals that guide us in our behaviors. And yes, morals that guide our words. And certainly, there are religious principles that guide different groups in terms of what is acceptable to do and to say – and what is not. Then there’s also norms. Norms and mores vary by group, by person, by context.  Perhaps that’s in part why taboo topics are so provocative. They reveal differences between groups and between individuals.  Sometimes critically important differences. This definition of taboo means that what we consider to be a taboo topic varies across countries, across religions, across cultures, and over time.  So, what is taboo in one context may be completely acceptable in another.  Context is HUGE when it comes to taboo topics. Context cannot be overemphasized here. Consider for example how different generational cohorts talk about – and don’t talk about – certain taboo topics. As Tom Megginson so eloquently stated in episode #71 focused on Personal Branding, Authenticity & TMI – too much information –  we code-switch across generations. We talk differently to our grandparents than we do to our kids.  Not just because of their age, but also because of their generational cohort.  The NORMS that are established for that generation. And of course, those norms include the definitions of what’s taboo. If there’s any question about this, consider this list of 9 socially acceptable things that used to be taboo. Are you ready? Visible bra straps Girls making the first move Living together or having a child outside of marriage Keeping your maiden name Asking a lady’s age Phone calls after 9pm Girls wearing pants Tattoos And, of course, there’s referencing, never mind being anything other than straight, heterosexual. There wasn’t even a word for that.  Now it’s LGBTQ+, and the term is referenced all the time. Consider the Silent Generation. Interesting label, right? Their our grandparents, the ones born in about 1925-45, they’re called The Silent Generation, in part because they were born during the depression and wartime.  But that generation can also be defined in terms of resistance to talking about many taboo topics, right?  Think about it – they’re actually called the silent generation.! Fast forward through the cooler but conformist Baby Boomers (they’re the ones that started talking about sex, right?),  then the cynical Gen X’rs, the protected Millennials, and now the inspiration- and validation-seeking Gen Zs. And it’s these younger Millennials and Gen Z’s who are calling people out (even CANCELLING people!) for violating norms around taboos. For previous generations, talking about racism or sexism may have been taboo.  Now, being racist or sexist is taboo, and if you violate that norm, you stand a chance of getting cancelled.  Wow. The younger generations are encouraging us to talk openly about other critical, previously taboo topics, beyond racism and sexism, such as mental health, money, menstruation, death and dying, and more. SO what topics ARE considered taboo? I did a little research for us. I created an alphabetical list of 20 taboo topics, according to several sources that I checked – including published lists of taboo topics in Canada ??, around the world ?, and at work ?:.  This list is by no means complete, but it’s an interesting reference of 20 common taboo topics. Alphabetically, then We start with A, which of course is ABORTION BODILY FUNCTIONS & EXCREMENT CANNIBALISM CO-WORKERS (this could be anything from gossip to harassment and everything in between. We’re not supposed to talk about the person whom we may be competing against for a promotion!) DEATH & DYING FOREIGN POLICY GOSSIP INCEST JOB-CHANGING MARITAL ISSUES  MEDICAL/HEALTH PROBLEMS MENTAL HEALTH MONEY PROFANITY  POLITICS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS SALARIES SEX & SEXUALITY Anyone’s SPOUSE SUICIDE I’ll include this list along with some of the resources for where I found these topics in the shownotes, if you’re interested. This is a pretty diverse list.  Everything from excrement to money to spouses.  Wow.  But the topics on this list all have some things in common.  All these topics are things that some people may have strong opinions about.  Not surprising, remember in the definition, I highlighted that taboo topics are grounded in moral, religious beliefs of norms?  People definitely feel strongly about these things. And all these topics are things that people can get offended about.  Whether it’s the topic in general, or a certain stance, people can get offended. When I look at this list of taboo topics, I think about stand up comedy.  You probably don’t know this about me, but I’m a huge fan of stand up.  I admire comedians.  They’re clever! And I love thinking about how they create their schticks too. How they decide what to talk about.  But here’s the thing, much of the low-hanging fruit for stand-up comedians comes from this list of taboo topics.  How many times have you heard comedians talking about poop? Or marital issues? Or sex?  And of course, they like to shock us with profanity. When I look at this list, I also think about “click-bait”. Right? There’s gossip. There’s money, there’s profanity.  Again, these are the things that people might want to read about.  Whether they want to talk about them openly is another question.  Of course some people do, in social media, for example.  But it can be polarizing, and therefore risky. Many these topics are also things that the younger, more recently generations seem to be encouraging us to talk about more.  There are relationship-related topics, health-related topics, or work-related topics here for example, where people are encouraging dialogue. Healthy dialogue. There’s one clear exception to this though, and that’s the topic of POLITICS. While many of these other topics are being encouraged, the topic of politics has seen a resurgence in terms of its taboo status.  Of course, that’s due to the extreme divisiveness, the bi-polar nature of our politics these days.  You’re either red, conservative, and republican, or you’re blue, progressive/liberal, and democrat.  There’s no in-between, and there’s certainly no discussion. At least not in polite company, am I right? Such a shame. Speaking pf polite company… let me talk about Profanity.  Profanity is on that list. I had the privilege of interviewing am amazing linguist who teaches a university course on rap lyrics, Professor Darin Flynn.  I’ll leave a link to that episode in the shownotes, I was a bit nervous about this episode. When I mentioned that I was planning this interview to a few respected friends and colleagues, I heard two distinct responses: “AWESOME!  Can’t wait to hear it and learn about profanity!” “YIKES!  Really?  You’re going to edit the swears out, right?” So, do you know what I did?  I released two versions of that episode – one unedited, with all the swears, and one edited, the PG version.  Lots of bleeps.  And lots of thanks to my sound production engineer, also my brother, Brian Campbell for that one.  Gawd bless him. That was a crazy episode to edit! Anyway, I learned so much in that interview with Professor Darin Flinn.  For example, Darin shared that there are personality differences between people who swear and those who don’t. Research shows that sweariness (I ❤️ that word) is correlated with extroversion, with riskiness, with dominance, with being disagreeable and non-conformity….  So if you swear more, you’re more likely to be an extrovert, risk-seeking, dominant, disagreeable and non-conformist. I’m thinking those traits are also consistent with people who may generally question or violate other taboos too.  Think about it.  If you’re someone who violates taboos, you might be more likely to be an extrovert, risk-seeking, dominant, disagreeable and non-conformist.  Makes sense. Hmm. My favourite point from that whole podcast was  Darin’s point that these days, the most profane, the most offensive words in the English language are the ones that are derogatory to minorities.  In fact, those are the profanities that Darin himself refuses to say. If you listen to the unedited version of that Profanity podcast, you’ll hear us – swearing – like truck-drivers, as they say.  But Darin refuses to ever say the N-word.  And he points out that we should feel optimistic that we live in a society where the worst possible things you can say, the most profane, taboo expressions, are derogatory towards minorities?  I love that. ❤️ And here we are, by the way, now we’re talking about two taboo topics – profanity and racism.  It’s a double whammy. Alright, so we’ve already covered a lot here. We’ve defined taboo, we’ve covered how taboo topics vary across contexts (across groups and over time), and we’ve listed and covered various taboo topics. What about advice on what to do when taboo topics comes up? Say you’re at work and someone says something about a taboo topic in a meeting?  Or you’re at a dinner party and someone starts talking taboo? You know that awkward silence? When everyone stops dead in their tracks? Or maybe everyone in the room pauses except that one person who’s rambling on about gossip or sex or someone’s spouse – whatever the taboo topic is.  Whatever the context and whatever the topic, you noticed people’s response, and you realize a taboo-topic has been broached.  What can you say or do? Here are four suggestions: Smile and nod… Call it out. As my teenage son does so well, He exclaims, “AWWWWk-ward !!!”Ask, “is everyone is ok talking about this?”  Talk about the fact that it is taboo, as opposed to talking about the taboo topic itself This is a great way to diffuse things. Listen. If the conversation is going full-tilt and no one seems to want to change the subject, play a game with yourself.   Challenge yourself to fully understand others’ perspectives.  Keep it objective.  Ask Qs. Change the subject – Be the catalyst who changes the subject! Talk about this podcast! (Hey, that reminds me, I just listened to this great podcast episode on Taboo topics. Th podcast is called Talk About Talk.  They talked about what to do when taboo topics are broached in conversation…”   I have to tell you a quick story to illustrate some of these techniques.  On November 9, 2016, my family was on a short vacation. (Yes,  the date is relevant.  I bet you too can think of where you were on that date!) Anyway, we were on vacation and  our hotel hosted a party in their ballroom with big screens playing the results of the U.S. election. One of my kids dressed up as Donald J. Trump – his Halloween costume from the week before.  People thought this was hilarious. He was even interviewed on TV by a local newscaster! A woman I met at the party started engaging with me in SMALL TALK, asking where we were from and all about my kids.  She even asked for a photo with my son. I said, “Sure! My son’s been imitating Trump and all his shenanigans since Halloween!”  She stopped dead in her tracks, a look of horror and shock on her face.  “Wait, what?!?  You guys aren’t Trump fans?” Oopf. I crossed the line.  Yes, it was a political party, but political affiliations are a taboo topic, remember?  And guess what?  I offended her. So, what did I do?  Let’s review my options: Smile and nod… Call it out. Listen and take it as a learning opportunity changes the subject! Can you guess what I did?  I went straight for options 1 and 4.  I smiled and nodded, and then I changed the subject. I vividly remember looking her in the eye and slowly nodding my head.  Then I said, ”So where did you say you were from again?”  In retrospect, I wish I was a fly on the wall and I could see my own facial expression when I realized she was a Trump fan and thought my son was too.  So I encourage you to memorize and then depending on the context, strategically choose which response is ideal when someone around you brings up a taboo topic.  And of course don’t just think about yourself, think about others in the room too.  Then deice whether you should Smile and nod… Call it out.  Listen and take it as a learning opportunity change the subject!  And that’s it. That’s it for our talk about taboo topics. We covered lots here, in a short time. We covered the definition of taboo. The term taboo is derived from “unacceptable,” “prohibited,” “disallowed,” and/or “forbidden.” Taboos are words or behaviours that are sacred or prohibited based on morals, religion, or norms. We also covered how what is considered taboo varies significantly by context.  Context is key! What’s considered taboo – and why – depends on the time in history, the generation, the people, and the situational context. There’s time-based context. Consider the list of things that used to be taboo – that are no longer. Remember when the topic of racism used to be taboo?  Now we talk about racism ALL  THE TIME! So yes, taboos change overtime. There’s people and generational-based context. Consider what’s sacred to talk to our kids about vs what’s sacred in conversations with our parents.  Hmm. There’s situational-based context. Consider what’s sacred to talk about at work versus what’s sacred in conversations at the dinner table. There’s also what we might feel comfortable reading about (or listening about, as youre doing right now), which might be different than what we’re comfortable talking about. Isnt that interesting? So clearly context is key. Context is critical when it comes to talking about taboo topics. I also shared a list of 20 topics that are considered taboo and I noted how these are frequently referenced in stand-up, perhaps for shock value. And also how these 20 topics are frequently used as click bait. It’s fascinating to me that people generally seem to want to read about taboo topics, but not talk about them. And last, perhaps most importantly for our context with Talk About Talk and our communication skills, I shared 4 responses that we can all consider when taboo topics are raised.  Considering the impact on not just ourselves, we can choose to: Smile and nod… Call it out.  Listen and take it as a learning opportunity change the subject!  Alright that’s it! Again, you can find a printable version of this episode including a summary, the transcript, plus a list of storytelling resources all in the shownotes. Just go to the talkabouttalk.com website, click on PODCAST and SHOWNOTES. While you’re there, I really hope you’ll sign up for the Talk About Talk newsletter, if you’re not already! This is your chance to get free communication skills coaching from me every week in a simple to digest email. I promise no spam and no more than one per week. Just go to talk abouttalk.com to sign up or email me directly and I’ll add you to the list. You can email me anytime at Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com. I love hearing from you. Let me know if you wanna talk more about taboo topics. Thanks for listening. And talk soon! THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:            https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk.   The post #81 Talking TABOO Topics appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Podcaster Dave Jackson shares general communication insights for all of us, plus specific advice for podcasters, including the most common mistakes that podcasters make, the ideal length for a podcast, and how to refer to the listeners…   RESOURCES   Podcaster Dave Jackson & The School of Podcasting Profit From Your Podcast book – https://amzn.to/35wIWKf Website: schoolofpodcasting.com Twitter: twitter.com/davejackson Facebook: facebook.com/schoolofpodcasting Instagram: instagram.com/schoolofpodcasting LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davejackson/ School of Podcasting episode with Andrea focused on Personal Branding Other References    Beyond Powerful Radio by Valerie Geller: https://amzn.to/3cPcNBH Make Noise by Eric Nuzum: https://amzn.to/3xtcqEB WE Have Cancer podcast with Lee Silverstein – https://wehavecancershow.com/ Talk About Talk CONFIDENCE episode #58 Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Weekly Email Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Book Andrea for a free 20min “communication skills training” consult Andrea on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT   Dr. Andrea Wojnicki: Thank you, Dave, so much for joining us here to talk about communication skills and what you’ve learned from podcasting. Dave Jackson: Oh, thanks for having me, I’m looking forward to this. AW: Alright, let’s start with what you see as the most common mistakes that podcasters make in terms of their communication. So we’re talking about the basics here. What do you see novice podcasters doing wrong in terms of their communication? DJ: A lot of times, it’ll be an interview, or you’ll have I always call it, you know, three guys in the basement talking about booze or whatever. But the problem is, is the curse of knowledge. And this is where Ernie and Bert know a whole bunch about each other. And they’re all talking about remember that thing with the orange Gatorade, and then the other guys like, hahaha and nobody has a clue what you’re talking about. But they’re having a great time. And I’m like, Look, if you want to have fun in the basement, talk to your friend, by all means, but just don’t look at me and go, Why is my show not growing? And like because nobody knows what you’re talking about. I had one last night where I made it two minutes in before I finally said, That’s enough. And they said something about like, are you Brazilian? And he said no, I’m not Brazilian. And they both just broke out laughing and I’m like, I have no idea why that’s funny. But they can say Oh, dude, the Brazilian thing? Are you kidding me? And I’m like, Yeah, see you, you don’t realize that there’s a whole other group of people out here that don’t know about the Brazilian thing. And they just did two minutes of non stop inside jokes. And I was just like, yeah, that’s, that’s not gonna work. AW: Well, so I’m thinking that maybe if it was Episode 100, and you had a massive following, And you audience shared your inside jokes that might be different, right? DJ: Yeah, yeah, it can be realized, you’re still gonna, there’s always going to be new people that haven’t heard your show. And there, you kind of have your own little inside jokes. There’s a famous radio sports guy that has a whole other lingo with his audience. And that’s kind of half the fun when you first join, you’re kind of asking yourself, like, what does he mean by that? And so you’re kind of intrigued, like, What? What does he mean, a clone, what’s a clone? You know, and you go on and on. So that kind of pulls you into, you’re like, wait, I want to be on the inside, you have this weird fear of missing out going on. But a lot of times, it’s you know, you still have to have some things that I understand, to make me want to get the missing piece of the puzzle. But if they’re just no puzzle pieces, just clueless I’m just I’m clueless on what’s going on, then. Yeah, that’s not gonna work. AW: Yeah, so one of my pet peeves. You know, when I was, I would say, especially when I used to work in strategic brand management, and people, we would be putting forth a brand strategy. And it would end up being about the brand instead of being about the consumer. And so I’m thinking about this, what you just said in that context, it’s like, when podcasters are so myopic, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re not thinking about their audience, right? And, I see people doing it in meetings. I hear people just like you do talking like that when they’re on podcasts. I hear people doing that when they’re interviewing other people, like you’re trying to get information from someone, but you’re talking about yourself the whole time. Give me a break. So I am with you. That is one of my pet peeves. But that leads me to my second question. What are your pet peeves when you’re listening to podcasts? DJ: Well, that’s probably the first one, just you know, I’m I never remember once my backgrounds in teaching. So I find this podcast and it’s made for people that teach computers and I’m like, that is like a glove on my hand. And number one, it was horrible audio quality. And I think I lasted. I want to say it was something ridiculous, like, I remember seven. So it was either seven minutes or 17, I just remember was an insane amount. And the whole time, he’s just complaining about Bob Seger. And I just was like, and I just kept listening, thinking, well, surely, he’s going to quit talking about Bob Seger and get to the teaching, and I just eventually, I just was like, Okay, well, that’s, that’s enough of that. And I just got out. So that’s, that’s kind of a combo of both of them not getting to the point. And then really bad audio quality, where, you know, in 2005, when I started, people, were using this little stick microphone that came with your computer, and you could get away with that in 2005, but not now. And people love to, they’ll think you can record your podcast on a phone. And for the record, you can it just doesn’t sound any good. And they’ll put it on. speakerphone? And they’ll put it in the middle and you have four people around a table. And it sounds like you’re, you know, in the Lincoln Tunnel recording a podcast and yes, like, that’s just not gonna, gonna work. AW: It sounds like exactly what it is. DJ: Yeah. AW: I’m with you on those two. But back to your point about getting to the point. I’ve had this conversation with other people in in several contexts, and I’ve been called out on it, you know, early in my career when I was giving a talk one of my first academic talks. One of the professor’s stood up in the back of the room after about 10 minutes and yelled, Andrea, what is your point? And I was like I’m getting there. No. NOW. So, so how quickly in a podcast episode, should we be telling the audience what the main point is or what the key learning is? DJ: Somewhere in the first two minutes, you’re either going to get to the point or you’re going to tease the point one of the two. Because otherwise, you know, the fun little bumper sticker for this is, people don’t get on a bus unless they know where it’s going. And you are really asking them for their most prized possession. And that’s their time. And there’s nothing worse than when I listened to 13 minutes of a podcast and realize 13 minutes in, I’m getting nothing here and go up. There’s 13 minutes, I can’t get back. Let’s move on to the next one. So I think that’s one of the reasons you need to. And I see a lot of times that people forget, like right now you could probably get away with not even reading my bio, because people trust you, like Andrew is not going to bring on somebody who stinks. So when we I remember once I listened to an episode, and the person had just read their LinkedIn page, and it was like extremely, like, wow, just decorated person, and which isn’t horrible. But at the end of it, they said, Did I miss anything? And I was like, Are you kidding me? That’s your first question. So, if I have somebody on with a really long bio, what I like to do is explain why they’re on the show. When it comes to getting to the point, I always say Exhibit A is Netflix. If you ever watch a TV show on Netflix, at the end, there’s a button that says skip credits, which means skip the end. And when you click on that, it goes to the next episode, and skips the intro. And I’m like, so if you need more proof that people like to get to the point I give to you exhibit A Netflix so AW: beautiful. I love that analogy. It’s totally relevant. I also love your metaphor about you’re not going to get on the bus unless you know where it’s headed. That is an very eloquent way of saying, respect your consumer respect your listener. DJ: Yeah, absolutely. if you if you don’t deliver value, if you don’t know who your audience is, eventually, the people that are tuning in are going to go, I’m not getting anything out of this. And there’s only I don’t know, another 2 million podcasts to choose from, I guess all check out something else. AW: Very, very well put Dave and I have this I have to confess something to you. I’ve listened to enough of your School of Podcasting episodes that I actually would have guessed that your answer to the pet peeve question would be when people start by saying, tell me a bit about yourself. DJ: Oh, that’s true. AW: Yeah, I was gonna mess with you and actually say okay, we’re here with Dave Jackson, Dave tell us about yourself. DJ: Well, what I love about that is somebody because to me that just screams Hi, I didn’t do my homework, and I really don’t know who you are. But you have a pulse and you agreed to come on my show. So tell me a little bit about yourself. And at that point, I could say, well, I was born in Akron, Ohio, I was a paper boy at the age of 13. My dad’s name is john, I’m, you know, like, whereas if somebody goes, Hey, Dave, when did you When did you know you want to be a podcaster? Okay, number one, now we’re leading into a story versus Hey, can you go read your LinkedIn bio to me? So Right, right. Yeah, that’s always fun. DJ: That would have been fun, though. But I would have laughed. AW: You know, recently, I’ve been on a couple of other podcasts being interviewed by people that are quite professional. And it always shocks me when they say, why don’t you start by telling the audience a little bit about yourself? And I’m like, do they want to hear about my marketing background? Do they want to hear about me as a communication coach? Do they want to hear about my podcast, you know, and so I try to make it as short as possible so we can get to the meat of it. Which brings me to another question that I’m curious that I think to be honest, is relevant beyond the context of podcasting. So it’s, whether you’re conducting an online workshop, whether you’re running a meeting, whatever you’re doing, where there’s an audience, I feel like there’s some things that you have to get out of the way to really excel. Right? So one of them we’ve talked about, which is, we need to tell them what we’re going to tell them Give them the punch line, so they know why they’re sitting around and listening to us or watching us or participating. Are there other things that you try to get out of the way at the beginning? Because you know, what’s going to make it a great episode? DJ: Well, I try to answer the question, why should we listen to this guy? Because again, there’s so many people listening, and this is a hard one to do, because you sound like you’re really full of yourself. But if you can somehow answer the question, why should so that’s why we start off podcasting since 2005. I’m your award winning all the fame podcast coach. Yeah, that’s a mouthful. Dave Jackson. And the reason I say that is A, how many people can say they’ve been podcasting since 2005? Yeah, one, I’ve won a couple awards, and I’m in the Hall of Fame. And I was like, Well, I guess I should probably say that, you know, it’s one of the things and I have had people friends of mine that say, you don’t realize you’re Dave Jackson, I go, what does that even mean? And they’re like, Oh, just you know. So I throw that out at the front to kind of say, Well, here’s, you know, here’s why I think you should listen to me kind of thing. Because the good news is anybody can start a podcast, the bad news is, anybody can broadcast. So you kind of have to answer that question a little bit of like, why should I listen to you? AW: So you know, Dave, I think you’re a natural marketer, although, although you haven’t doing it since 2005. So it’s only taken you 16 is it? You’re a fast learner (haha) No, but what I was gonna say is you’re establishing the reason why, which is in a, in a brand positioning statement is your consumer benefit, and then you’re providing the evidence. So why am I listening to Dave about this? Or why am I listening to Andrea about this? I absolutely agree. So you’ve been doing this since 2005? How would you describe your evolution in terms of your personal communication skills, not just what you’ve seen other people doing? DJ: it’s funny. My I just recently listened to my very first podcast, so I could just cringe all over again. Because I just recently just went over 16 years, and I started off my very first thing out of my mouth was, Hey, everybody. And I was like, Well, if I was coaching myself would be like, nope, if you’re doing the solo show, talk to one person, don’t talk to everybody because, because there’s nobody else in the car typically. So that’s one, I edit myself now, where back then it’s Oh, I’m telling you so cringe worthy. And I’m just I’m, I’m over and over and over. And I was like, the, I used to just riff off the top my head, I had my little mental bullet points, which does not work for me. I’m way too ADT to, to do that. And so I finally started writing down my bullet points. I’m not reading it I, to me, that just doesn’t work for me. But as I’m kind of, you know, riffing on it, and that whole nine yards, a lot of times, I will come up still with one more thing, but now I’m doing it as I’m recording it. Because it’s really the second time I’m going through it. So Ah, that’s probably the biggest thing that’s changed. And the other thing was when I first started, because everybody in their brother found some study that said, the average commute in America is 20 minutes. So we all agree that every podcast should be 20 minutes. And I went to my first event. And it was interesting, because I met people that actually listen to my show. And I would say, Oh, great, thank you so much for listening. And I’m like, What can I do to make it better? And I had three people say, Oh, that’s easy. It needs to be longer. Like I have a longer commute. AW: Wow. DJ: And I was like, that’s a lot of Dave. I’m like, Are you sure? They’re like, yep. I’m not diehard, on the length, I kind of like, here’s what I’m talking about. And I talk about it, and I look up and I’m like, Alright, 37 minutes, that’s good. And then the next week, it’ll be 28. And I’m like, I’ve never had really anybody complain, On occasion, I will let people know say, Hey, we’re gonna go long today, because I got a lot to talk about on this one. But I’ve never really had anybody say, Well, you know, Quit making them so long or Quit making them so short. AW: So to your point about the length of them, I think I’ve heard you say in a few of your episodes that you get asked this question all the time. And your general answer is to keep it as short as possible, so that every minute is as rich as possible, again, or the audience, right? DJ: Absolutely. I did an episode once on interviews, because I get asked about interviews all the time. So I said it was about how to be interviewed. Well, first, it was about how to conduct an interview, how to find guests, and then how to be interviewed. And so what ended up being I think, an hour and 10 minutes, which I think is my longest one ever. And I didn’t have anybody complain. In fact, I had somebody say, that was such a good episode, I had to pull over and take notes. AW: NICE. DJ: Valerie Geller has a book called Beyond Powerful Radio. And I love her quote, and that is there is no such thing as too long, only too boring. So yeah, I always try to make it as short as I can. Again, I don’t want people fast forwarding through stuff. Because it’s one of the things where people go, Well, there’s always a fast forward button. I’m like, Well, if it’s not, like if they don’t need it, they can fast forward then why is it in the podcast in the first place? AW: I think a lot of people get sloppy … they’re not sloppy, lazy. They’re being lazy and not editing in it. DJ: When I when I hear somebody say I’m going to keep it real. I’m not going to edit the mic. So let me get this straight there. There are movie editors. There’s TV editors, there’s magazine editors, magazine editors. Yeah, but everything out of your mouth is just gold. And I was like, I have a weird rule. And it’s just a weird thing that I do. If I do an interview, I am going to remove one question. I don’t know which one it is, but I’m gonna listen. And eventually I was like, You know what, that’s the one that either doesn’t deliver any value, or delivers the least amount or maybe I went on a tangent or something like that. And I just to me, I then say okay, well, what’s left is the good stuff. AW: I think that is gold. Dave, I really think that’s gold. I’m trying to do that myself even with my newsletter because I know that my newsletter can tend to be a little bit wordy. And so now I’m writing it out. And then I pull a section. And I’m like, save that for another newsletter. DJ: Yah, I just try to keep them short is to the point and anything that’s really weird I throw at the very end, I started putting bloopers at the end of my show. And that was another weird when I just, I guess I’m not afraid to experiment at times. And so I put some bloopers at the end. So many people said, I’m so glad you did that. And they go, why they said, I just thought you were perfect. And I was like, Oh, are you kidding me? No, far from it AW: sounds awesome. It’s fun, too. It’s really fun. Yeah. So as you’re going through this list of things, other than going back to edit what you’ve recorded, I’m thinking that all of the things you’re talking about, so not typing out your whole script, and not winging it, but having the bullet points and talking to one person as opposed to you guys or you all, I think these communication insights or tactics are really relevant beyond podcasting, and I’m imagining you now up on stage at PodFest, or, you know, some big conference, and you’re giving a speech, how’s it different or the same when you’re onstage? DJ: onstage, I miss being onstage with our good friend COVID. And I used to be a teacher, so I had a classroom, and I like to make people react in one way or another, whether it’s, I love to make people laugh. So if I can make them laugh, that’s kind of fun. So just the, the smile or the face of Did he just say that, or whatever it is, is fun. And the fact that you just it’s like adding another – it’s the difference between reading a book and hearing a book. Right, I now I still have tone of voice and I can, I can do — a dramatic pause if I want to. But now I can wave my arms. And I can do all sorts of stuff. And, you know, just ways to keep their attention. I remember once I was at Podcast Movement, and they have these, it looks like somebody just tied a bunch of tables together to make a stage. And I was explaining about how you are the goalie. And if somebody tries, you know, to give you content for your audience, it’s your goal to to jump up and SWAT and say not in my house. And I jumped up on the stage. And I’m not a small guy, but I’m not a huge guy. But it made a big old sound in the stage about crumbled, and I was like, okay, Note to self next time, you might want to, you know, do a quick once over… But on the other hand, it got everybody’s attention, which you need to because as you’re doing something on stage, my whole goal is I don’t want to see people looking at their phone. Because I know they’re gonna it’s hard not to. So I just tried to do that. And I walk around, and I pointed people, and I’m just, you know, for me the worst is when I walk in, and they go, okay, you’ll be talking there. And there’s the podium, and I’m like, Oh, great. Is there a wireless microphone? They’re like, no, but there’s a mic at the podium. And I’m like, so I have to stand at the podium. And they’re like, Yeah, and it’s just like, now I’m melting again. AW: Oh, wow. So do you ever feel nervous? DJ: Yes, it’s what’s what’s really funny about it, I mean, again, I i’ve, I used to teach classes every day. And it was, you know, to 20 people or whatever, you can actually time your watch by this now, five minutes before I go on, all the blood will leave my hands. They get super cold, and yet they sweat. It’s a really weird phenomenon. And when that happens, I just go, oh, yep, I got about five minutes. And it’s I’m perfectly fine with it. But I’m like, I’m, this is where I get nervous. But the minute they say please welcome to the stage, Dave Jackson. Then I hear this little voice in my head that just it’s David Lee Roth from one of his solo albums. And he goes, it’s showtime. And off I go. AW: Beautiful, beautiful. You know, in in one of my most downloaded most popular episodes, we talked about communicating with confidence. And especially when you’re working your way up, you’re mentally preparing for a big event and going out on stage and I talk about pirating or borrowing someone else’s confidence. So I choose Madonna, you choose David Lee Roth. DJ: well, and that kind of goes back to my earliest days of really being just – I got fired because I was so shy when I was a 15 year old grocery bagger. And my high school student or a high school teacher say, he goes, You need to be more like your friend Scott. And my friend Scott was like, monkey hour he was just the ultimate extrovert. And I was he might as well said, you know, grow a third arm. And I said, Well, he goes here, here’s what you got to do. And I said, Okay, he goes, just act like you’re outgoing. And I like why because yeah, if you act the way you want to be, someday you will be the way you act, which is basically fake it till you make it. Yeah. So I just started acting like I was outgoing, and eventually got used to it. AW: Oh, I’m so glad I asked you that question. That was amazing. Okay, so I want to move on to some specific communication skills topics and just get your perspective on how to do these things, I guess, specifically in a podcast episode, and then maybe in general, if you have any other insights for other contexts.  So the first one is asking questions, what makes for a great question? DJ: I think, if you anything that requires thought, and it’s on one hand, you don’t want to blindside people, because then you have to rely on their skill to improv. And that usually just falls flat on its face. I just watched, it’s funny, you asked this I just watched there’s a YouTube channel where this guy interview celebrities, while they’re eating wings, and the more wings they eat, it’s called hot ones. The more they eat, the hotter they get. And he’s and he’s interviewing John Mayer. And he’s really getting into the summer and the guy asked really good questions. It’s just weird that every time John eats one, he’s like, Okay, this This one tastes like a tire on fire now and then going on. But he asked him, he goes, is there any musician on that’s, that’s famous, some sort of pop star that doesn’t get the respect they deserve for their songwriting capabilities? he goes, wow, that’s a good question. And he goes, and because the person is so good, give me a second, because I gotta think about this one. And you can always add it out that awkward pause. So I think that’s part of it. Eric Nuzum wrote a book. He’s a guy from NPR. He’s been in radio forever. Yeah. He has a book called Make Noise. And he said, when you’re when you’re interviewing somebody, try to think of what’s the one thing that only this person can answer. So when I interviewed him, I asked him, I’m like, how do you get a job in NPR? Because he’s the only person I’ve ever known. That’s been on NPR. So I think that’s part of it. I think good questions are, you know, something that makes people think, and the other one I think that helps, and I appreciate is when somebody doesn’t ask me, the same old and I don’t mind answering this question. But when somebody goes, What was it like in 2005? In podcasting, I always want to go, like, why are you? Who cares? It’s a history lesson. But you so there’s sort of certain questions I get all the time. But when somebody asked me one that I go, Oh, wait, this is, this is a different angle. I just appreciate it. So I think that’s, and it’s hard to say what that is, but I tried to go and listen to if somebody I’m interviewing, I try to find the interviews that they’ve been on. And then anytime I’m looking for a follow up question, and the host didn’t ask it, I write it down. I’m like, Oh, I want to go deeper into this. So that’s, that’s a great, that’s a great strategy. AW: I like that. Yeah. But Dave, what’s the one question that only you can answer? DJ: That’s cool. See, that’s a good question. AW: I was listening to you. DJ: Well, I mean, I can answer what was it like podcasting in 2005? Maybe that’s why people ask that. But to me, I’m like, What value does that give to your audience? You know what I mean? It’s like it’s a history lesson. But what’s it like, AW: Don’t worry, I feel like this is this is not a question that I had thought of honestly, but you have personally experienced, but then you’ve also been exposed to so many podcasts as you’re coaching other people. Is there like a secret sauce, like a thing, a strategy, a philosophy that the successful podcasts all do and the ones that fail, don’t? DJ: There’s a certain characteristic maybe, or an attitude. And when I see somebody that their primary goal is not downloads. It’s not money. It’s not fame.  It’s not fortune. I want to serve my audience. When I’m like, they’re, again, almost on a mission again, that’s when they look at that and go, that person’s probably gonna, something’s gonna happen watch that person. Because they’re not worried about it. They’re like, No, I just want there’s, there’s this thing, and people need to know this. And I love talking about this. And I just am like, Alright, there you go. It’s not like, hey, when the opposite of that is when somebody says, so like, what’s the topic I should talk about? That would make the most money quickly. And you’re just like, you don’t need to start a podcast, you’re just gonna waste your time. So when I see somebody that Lee Silverstein comes to mind, Lee started off a show called the colon cancer podcast, because Lee has had stage four, stage four colon cancer, for going on 10 years now likely supposed to be dead. And, you know, when his doctor told him, You have cancer, he thought he had a death sentence. And he just decided he didn’t want to die and researched it. And you know, he’s had a couple of relapses and things like that. But he’s still here, and I love the guy. And he rebranded it to We Have Cancer because he realized that when you have cancer, guess what so does your family. And he just said, I want to make the podcast that I needed. When I heard the phrase, you have cancer. AW: Wow. DJ: And so he, over the years, he’s just kind of, it’s just gangbusters. My favorite thing is he reached out to a somewhat large cancer organization. It was like, Hey, I’m starting this thing. It’s cancer. Would you like to partner with me? And they’re like, podcasts? smodcast. What, huh? And then he started it. And it just kind of grew and grew and grew to where everybody’s like, Hey, have you heard about Lee Silverstein, and they kind of went back and knocked on his door and they’re like, Hi, Lee remember us? So I think that had to be such a great, I don’t know, just a great feeling to have somebody that kind of blew you off, come back and go, Hey, can we play with your podcast style? AW: So awesome story. Yeah. So that’s that’s a great example. I love your answer to that question, which by the way, goes back to the very first point that you made serving your audience. It’s all about serving your audience. DJ: Yeah, it has to be really in the in the clear picture you have of your audience. The better the content, the better the content, the more they’re going to tell their friends, the more they tell their friends, the bigger your audience, it just it snowballs. But it really starts with knowing your audience and then giving them what they want. AW: Brilliant. Okay, so for my audience, I’ve heard that they love it when I create frameworks and lists for them. And so one of the things that I’ve done is I’ve based on all of the research in interviews and experience and reading that I’ve done about communication skills is I came up with three communication skills that I call the communication superpowers. DJ: Okay, AW: listening, confidence, and storytelling. What do you think? What do you think about that list? DJ: I think it’s awesome. That’s really that’s exactly. Because when you talk to anybody about interviewing, the key to a good interview is yes, it helps to do research, know who you’re talking to. And what’s the one thing I can ask them, but the biggest one is to just listen, I usually have a list of, let’s say, five questions, and it’s on the left hand side of my desk, and in front of me is another blank slab of paper with a pen that doesn’t click, and I’m sitting there and I’m just listening because somebody will say something about you know, I remember this time and I it was great because it went gangbusters in Iowa, and I just write down Iowa because I want to go back to whatever happened that made it go gangbusters. But in the meantime, I got to continue listening. And what happens is if you sit there and you’re, you’re telling yourself, okay, Iowa, and Meanwhile, the person is still talking, and then you go, Oh, wait, there’s another thing, Iowa and you know, the Mustang, okay, I owe a Mustang and like, wait, and now you can’t listen anymore. And so they get done. And they’ve just explained how they shot someone for snoring and you go, great. Question number two, and you’ve completely missed it. So if you can write these down just a word, you don’t need to write down the question because again, it’s it’s kind of crazy. If you just write down a word, there you go, then you can go back to that, and ask that question. So it’s, I always tell people, if you’re starting out, if you’re doing a podcast, do one of two things, interview your parents if they’re around, and you’ll thank me someday. And if they’re not around, and you have them, interviewed your kids, and really the reason for that is when you’re interviewing, it’s weird. You’re listening, as you’re trying to figure out what’s next. There’s just a lot going on in your head. So that’s listening is huge. The second one was AW: confidence DJ: ok confidence. Yeah, confidence is tough. Because it’s it just, there’s no pill. There’s no way to just okay, if you just do this thing, you’ll be confident. Besides practice. And we all have imposter syndrome. We always are all thinking, why is anybody listening to me? Like who am I to say this stuff? Yeah, so that’s one. And we know, like, right now somebody has had value. Why? Because they’re still here, you know, they’re still listening. And but yet, somebody’s got Well, if you kind of don’t mind, if you think about like, if you want to share the show with somebody, maybe or I don’t know, if you want to know, if you just say Hey, thank you so much for listening. You’re still here. So thank you so much. So if you’re on a phone right now, there’s a share button somewhere on your phone, there’s a share button. And if you know somebody that would appreciate this, could you do me a favor and just share this with one person? And when you slow down and do that? It’s it’s so much different than Hey, can you do me a favor? My website is muted, even if you say it at warp speed, so nobody can hear it. You know, it’s just, uh, you know, so they say I’m laughing because I just said, you know, my buzz phrase. AW: So I love your point about graciously thanking people, though. You know, I’ve been teaching I have three teenagers, and I’ve been trying to teach them to someone compliments you on something, you quickly and graciously thank them. And then you move on. Right, and you don’t dismiss it? Just DJ: That’s hard. Yeah. AW: And I remember one of the first Apple reviews that I got for Apple on Apple podcasts. The person said, I love at the end, how Andrea thanked us for listening so graciously. And I was like, Wow. So it really makes a difference. DJ: And it takes practice. That’s something I’m still horrible at. And, you know, when I was married, my ex wife said, you don’t take compliments very well. And I’m like, she just knew me. And she’s like, Well, why don’t you just say, thank you so much. She goes, that’s really you know, she goes, you’re kind of dismissing them by not accepting the compliment. And I was like, oh, somebody would say, you know, Dave, you’re pretty funny. And I go out looks aren’t everything. Oh, you know? Yeah. And so again, I get a chance to make her laugh. And she’s like, I understand you’re trying to you know, it’s a funny joke. She’s like, but if you ever thought of just saying thank you, and I was like, I guess so it takes it’s a skill. And then the third one was storytelling. AW: I know you’re big on storytelling DJ: I love stories. I’ve been Yeah, I kind of did it is like, hey, let’s see what happens if I do this. This year. I just happened to start it on the first week. I started with a hopefully two minute or less story about me something I’m doing or whatever and how it’s then going to connect with whatever the topic is, So I shared a story about how I have two McDonald’s in my neighborhood. And I go to the one because it’s a better experience. And the other one, they never smile at me, I have to wait longer, blah, blah, blah, but the other one is actually farther away, I drive farther for a better experience. And I was like, so if you can give a better experience, you know, people might actually go there. And so I’ve had people when I get them kind of one on one, like, Hey, I kind of like that that thing you’re doing with the story at the beginning? Yeah. Saturday Night Live has kind of a cold open, if you think about it. Yeah. And I just thought the whole point is to get them sucked in, so that the phone is in their pocket, yeah, in or on the passenger seat or something so that when the show comes on, it’s too late to hit skip, or next show or whatever. So AW: yes, I did an experiment, actually, with some corporate workshops that I was doing online workshops, where, with the same audience, a slightly different topic. But I did one workshop, where I kicked it off with a story, just a short story. But that illustrated the point, why we’re here. And then another workshop where I didn’t do that. And the difference between the two, and nobody in the second workshop said, I didn’t like it, because she didn’t tell that story. But but the participants in the first workshop did say she’s a great storyteller. DJ:  Yeah. AW: So I know, it makes a huge difference. DJ: Well, if you can use if you need to make a point, if you can make that point was some sort of story about you. Now, when you deliver a podcast on a regular basis, well, now you are seen as trustworthy, And if you’re delivering value, well, then they probably like you, because you’re making them smarter, you’re making them laugh, or whatever it is. And then if you kind of share a little bit about yourself, they kind of feel like they know, you know, there’s so there’s the whole know, like and trust thing, so that in the event, you are using this to promote a business or a product and you say, hey, I’ve got a new book out. They’re gonna like, Oh, I like her. She’s great. I’m gonna buy her book. AW: Yeah. So before we move on to the five rapid fire questions, I just want to ask you, this is kind of a big question. But I’m really curious if you have any stories about mind blowing transformations of podcasters, where you actually witnessed someone who was horrific. And then they adopted certain strategies, and now they’re rocking it. DJ: I wouldn’t say he was horrific. He just wreaked of, I’m nervous. He just, you know, he kind of needed. And this isn’t a bad thing. But he needed kind of his handheld along the way. He was always like, I just want to make sure I’m not messing up, I might, you know, that kind of thing. And his name was Lance. And so we got him up and going, and you know, who’s kind of getting that, and he, I hadn’t heard from him for probably about a year. And he came back and said, hey, there’s some new technology coming out, I need your opinion. Let’s set up a consulting call. And he was like, great. And I said, You want me to listen to an episode and kind of see what’s going on? He goes, Oh, that would be great. And I hit play. And it was again, what did I hear – confidence! AW: Wow, DJ: much more comfortable behind the mic. He just, it just flowed. Whereas before, it was kind of timid. And this was confidence. And it just showed in, I was trying to think like, well, what’s he doing differently? or How did this happen, or whatever. And it was just a matter of rational repetition. Just doing it and finding out that, you know, I was kind of joking, nobody’s gonna punch you in the face. And nobody had punched him in the face. And he actually had people that were, you know, emailing him and saying, that was great. I love that. And he was helping people. And he kind of all of a sudden, you go from well, who would listen to me. So you’re worried that you’re not gonna have any audience. And then all of a sudden, this thing happens and people start listening to you. And that then makes you freak out. You’re like, well, what, but now people are listening to me. So I have to be careful with what I say or I’m not, you know, you think about this. Now you’re worried about the audience. You know, there’s an audience of listening to me. And he just kind of felt natural now behind the mic. And he knew what he was talking about, because I told him, me. He was an expert in the field, it was all about home health care, and taking care of, you know, aging parents and things like that. And this is a guy that’s been in that business forever. I’m like, you’re an expert. You know, he’s like, Well, yeah, but there are other people, but there’s always gonna be other people. Right? But one of the things when I was a teacher, you don’t have to be the expert, you just have to know more than your students. You know, so. So that was that was one that I was like, when I just remember hit play. And I was like, is this the same guy? Just the confidence that just ooze out of the speakers. AW: That must have been very satisfying for you to as a coach and a teacher. DJ: It was because, you know, he did all the hard work, but there’s a little bit of my thumbprint on that. So it was kind of fun. AW: So do you have any general advice that maybe one thing that you would share in terms of what podcasters should focus on in terms of their communication? DJ: Yeah, I, it’s too, but it’s really one. It’s, it’s my bumper sticker act, answer. And that is spend $100 on a microphone and spend 100 hours researching your audience. And you can do all sorts of cool stuff. My one of my favorites is I will type in whatever the subject is on Amazon. And I’ll look for two and four star reviews. Because two will be like, this was pretty awful. Except they did do this. So now you’re letting you know, and four is like, well, I would have given it five, but they didn’t talk about this. So these are people that are probably going to be vocal, where one is like, Oh, this was awful. And five was like, best thing ever. Well, that’s not very helpful. So there are all sorts of tips and tricks that you can do, even if you don’t have an audience to figure out who is my audience, and what’s gonna make them go, Wow, that was a really good podcast. So really know your audience. And then from there, it’s just, you have to figure out why am I doing this? Here’s who I’m talking to? What can I talk about that’s going to hold their attention and get them to do whatever the heck my WHY is? AW: respecting your audience. That has been a theme throughout this entire conversation. Amazing. Okay. Are you ready for the five rapid fire questions? I am horrible at rapid fire, but I will try. Okay, Question one. What are your pet peeves? DJ: Plastic bags. And this this is because of my days as a grocery bagger. When it was I went, it used to be paper, that’s all we had, there was paper plastic, and I used to pack bags that were probably 10 to maybe 15 pounds, because paper could do it. And now I go to Walmart and they will double bag my bread and I’m like, What are you and then you get home. You can’t throw them away. And so you’re stuck with all these plastic bags until you get them someplace that will recycle them. So I to me, I hate by just the whole grocery food thing, because you have to do it. It’s either you know, you buy them, then you have to put them away, then you take them out, then you cook them then you throw them it’s just a whole thing. And in the process of all that you’re stepping over the plastic bags. So that’s a that’s one that I just go plastic bags, you know, AW: so this is a side of you that I didn’t know well, Environmentalist Dave, Okay, question number two, what type of learner are you ? DJ: Can we do all of the above? I used to be very visual, I loved to read. And then when audiobooks came along, I loved those. But I also I realize, my one of my superpowers used to be, give me a manual and some software and I’ll know it in a day, is once I would read it, but then when you really start messing around with software, that’s really where the rubber hits the road. Yeah. And then eventually, I just quit, like, I don’t need the book. Just give me the software. And I’ll start clicking on menus and figuring out what it does. So I think I’m a little bit of every thing. But I know I now if somebody said, Would you like this on a Kindle a physical book? And I’m like, do you have an audio book, because audio books I can put on, you know, 1.5 speed and listen while I’m walking around the block. And so I can multitask now where I can’t walk around the block, and even even on a Kindle, although I love I love Kindle books, because I can highlight them and then go in and see just what I’ve highlighted. I love that feature. But so I don’t know that I have a primary I think I kind of do all the above. AW: So it’s fascinating to me that podcasters don’t all just answer this question with I’m auditory but like honestly, I’m visual. And here I am podcasting. So it’s interesting, isn’t it? Okay, question number three. introvert or extrovert? DJ: Yeah, primarily introvert, but once I get to know you, you can’t shut me up. AW: Got it. DJ: It’s very weird. AW: Question number four communication preference for personal conversations? DJ: This might be because I’m in my 50s. I still love the phone. And it goes back to communication. Yes, I can type lol. But it would be much better if I can actually hear you laugh. Because then I can, it’s just to me, it’s, you know, there when you go from Word to, to audio. Now I’ve got tone of voice. We can both laugh together, you know. So I love the phone. Auditory, it is auditory. Because I’m sitting thinking like, why don’t I do FaceTime? And I’m like God, because all my friends are old and they can’t figure it out. AW: Okay, this last Rapid Fire question. I’m actually really, really curious to hear your answer to. Is there a podcast that you find yourself recommending the most lately? DJ: Um, probably the one I recommend the most, because I talked about his book I talked about earlier is Matthew Diggs has a book called Speak Up Storytelling. But there is another person that I love that guy to death. Get to the point. He has a lot of at the beginning of his show that I’m like, I really just want to hear you critique a story. But on the other hand, he’s sharing stuff about his family. And I feel like I know his kids and things like that. So that’s probably what I recommend. AW: I hear you recommending the book a lot on your School of Podcasting. But I haven’t heard you recommending the podcast. I’ll definitely give that a listen. Thank you so much, Dave, it was great to ask you some questions that I think I’ve been wondering since I started listening to you. And I also want to thank you not just for sharing your time and your advice here, but also, for so generously sharing your advice every week with podcasters. I can tell you, I have listened to most of your School of Podcasting episodes. And I found it incredibly helpful. And I really appreciate it. And I thank you. DJ: Well, thanks for listening. I really appreciate that. Thanks.   THANKS for READING – and Talk soon! LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:            https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com  ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk. The post #80 COMMUNICATION INSIGHTS from hall-of-fame podcaster Dave Jackson appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Storytelling can elevate your communication! Learn 4 ways stories are impactful, the important elements of stories, and where to find great stories. Whether you’re giving a speech or presentation, leading a meeting, or teaching, storytelling will connect you with your audience.   RESOURCES Talk About Talk Podcast Episodes Mentioned Telling your Story with Norman Bacal – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/42-telling-your-story-with-norman-bacal/ Storytelling with Harvard Professor & author Jerry Zaltman – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/11-storytelling-with-harvard-professor-author-jerry-zaltman/ Coaching with Elite Camps founder Stephanie Rudnick – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/8-coaching-with-elite-camps-founder-stephanie-rudnick/ Communicating your Personal Brand Online – https://www.talkabouttalk.com/68-communicating-your-personal-brand-online-2/ Communicating with Confidence https://www.talkabouttalk.com/58-communicate-with-confidence-mental-preparation Other References TEDTalk – Sir Ken Robinson on “Do Schools Kill Creativity?” – https://youtu.be/iG9CE55wbtY Research: storytelling, emotions, memory: https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/EJM-12-2016-0881/full/html storytelling, personal narratives & career trajectories: https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/18-014_3a2938ae-5a6f-4173-b23a-26ed76e6c1e7.pdf Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Weekly Email Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Book Andrea for a free 20min “communication skills training” consult Andrea on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/   THANKS for READING – and Talk soon!   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:         https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com       ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk.   The post #79 How to Use STORYTELLING to Elevate Your Communication appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Upskilling, or focusing on personal development, can propel your career.  But what skills should you focus on and how should you develop them? Cherry Siu, chief of staff at Deloitte, shares personal development insights from her personal experience and observation of other global professionals.   RESOURCES Cherry Siu & Deloitte Cherry on LinkedIn –  linkedin.com/in/cherrysiu Deloitte – com Dr. Andrea Wojnicki & Talk About Talk Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Weekly Email Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Book Andrea for a free 20min “communication skills training” consult Andrea on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/     INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT Dr. Andrea Wojnicki: Thank you so much, Cherry, for joining us here today to talk about the importance of consciously developing our communication skills at work. Cherry Siu: I’m very excited to be here. AW: Why don’t we start by having you share with us a little bit about what you do in your role as Chief of Staff? CS: As chief of staff, I’m really a strategist and a connector, I drive in develop our global CNI financial advisory strategy for Deloitte. But I’m also connected in the sense that I connect different leaders from different countries together to align on the strategy, make sure we’re all leading global initiatives together, and I also lead complex projects for the firm. AW: Okay, that helps me a lot, because you know, I know these big global organizations, they have silos. So your role is to bring them all together. CS: This is very exciting, because you get to work across different cultures, different levels of executives, and try to align them into one strategy. We’re a strong believer that we stronger together as one. So I’m the person who pulls everyone together and make sure we’re all aligned and doing the same thing for bigger impact. AW: So you’re really focusing on I guess, identifying best practices, and then making sure that those are permeated throughout the organization. And one of those things, may be training people on things like communication skills? CS: Absolutely. As part of a global advisory firm, we are very strong in training our practitioners, because our people are our assets, and communications, that interpersonal skill, and how do you deal with both internally and externally with clients – is a skill set that’s fundamental to what we do. AW: But I think that’s an interesting insight, right, your organization is not selling widgets, you are selling professional services, which means you’re selling the services of human beings. And therefore, instead of investing in capital improvements, instead of investing in product improvements, you’re investing in your people and their skill development. CS: Yeah, that’s true. Especially for professional services, we’ve definitely got the technical skills. But beyond that, there’s a huge element of that interpersonal skills that people really need to develop. Because you’re not just buying a person helping you do a project, you’re really buying that relationship and someone you want to work with, AW: Oh, I love that word relationship, because if you’re not communicating, your relationship is going to suffer, right? And in your case for Deloitte, that’s internally working with teams internally, and also your relationship with your client. CS: Yes, they’re both equally important. AW: So then my question is, what specific communication skills do you think are most important in terms of these relationships, relationship building within the firm and with clients? And specifically, what skills do you see elevating the people at Deloitte in terms of them getting promoted? CS: I think one of the key things is the ability to listen and being able to synthesize information at the right level, day in and day out, I work with my clients at different level, I work all the way from C suite, the CEO, the CFO, to VP, to analysts, and you realize that they need different levels of information. I’m not going to go to the CEO, listen to him, and then give him a five-page detailed note summary of what we just discussed. Whereas, you know, if I’m working with an analyst who’s really needs the detail of everything that’s come through, that’s a different level of information. And, active listening is really important, too. It’s about being able to understand what your client is telling you, being able to read between the lines and simplifying it for them. So, a lot of times, we’re in brainstorming sessions, people throwing ideas out there, you really need to be able to understand a whole situation, being able to simplify into bullet points at the very end of it. One of my key mentors does a great thing. He can go into a three-hour conversation. And at the end of it, he’ll come back and summarize in three points. And people appreciate that, because there’s so much talking involved, it’s good for everyone to align on those key messages, and what’s the takeaway. Being able to listen is a huge thing for me. And the other thing I think is really important is being able to speak up and creating executive presence with the right people, I see people struggling to strike a balance between talking too much versus not enough. And some people force themselves – if you tried to speak up once or twice in every meeting. And I don’t think that’s the right approach to go about it because you want to add value. So I think you need to understand when you need to speak up to build trust and relationships with people. In the advisory business, my job is to solve problems for my clients. So, I need to pick the right situation and says what do I need to build relationship with my clients outside of an official meeting and speak up and have my point of view there? Or whether it is it being in the presence with every other client and being able to act as an advisor there, you got to strike the balance. And I think lastly is how you speak matters being professional in terms of how you can articulate, managing your pace, managing your tone, managing how many filter words you use – are all parts of how professional you’re gonna appear to your colleagues to your clients. That’s really important. And I try to take away filler words, trying to create pauses and not answer every single question. And it’s very difficult, I can still hear the UMMS and the AHs, but I actively count it because I know that creates a different perception to other people when they hear someone who speaks with 10 UMMS in the sentences – versus someone who’s very eloquent and can pause at the right time. AW: Wow, Cherry, that’s you gave me so much to think about, and, frankly, so much to synthesize to your point. But I love this list you. So your last point there was really about executive presence and communicating really true to the personal brand that you’re working to establish whether it’s internally with your team or externally with clients, as you said, and whether it’s you or whether it’s somebody else. So that’s music to my ears, because I’m also very much focused on personal branding, as you know. And you talked a lot about synthesizing, which, to be honest, I don’t hear from a lot of other executives that I’m talking with about communication skills. But I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, the ability to take complex messy problems, you know, complex meetings, even a complex podcast episode, and synthesize it down to main points. That is a superpower. Kudos to you for identifying that. But you started off by saying listening. I mean, I 100% agree. Two years ago, or two and a half years ago, when I started talk about talk, I absolutely thought that listening was number one, unquestionably. And I and I still think it’s up there. But more recently, I’ve identified the three superpowers of communication skills. So, number one is listening. And number two is confidence, which you articulated in terms of having executive presence and knowing when to speak, and how to speak and how much to speak and not using UMMs and AHs and all that stuff. So that all fuels into confidence. I’m curious what you think about my third superpower, though. So I based on my experience, my observation and my research, I really believe that storytelling is also a communication superpower. What do you think about that? CS: No, that’s actually really aligned. At Deloitte storytelling is everything. And it’s not just oral communication, it’s written, you know, every time we do a proposal, it’s about storytelling. How do we solve a problem for the client? And how do we take them through that journey, we actually have a course called the art of storytelling, because storytelling really helps people understand what you’re saying, and ease them into the journey. It’s easy to throw solutions at people, but you need to take them through the journey and make them understand and be part of that journey for them to build that trust and want to work with you. AW: Very well said, and I love how you use the word journey. There’s so many times because really, that’s what storytelling does. Right? It ensures that your audience or your client, or whoever you’re communicating with, is along with you. And you can vividly illustrate what you’re talking about through storytelling. So on the other hand, oh, I’m wondering, what skills have you observed just looking around, you know, at various people’s career paths? What skills do you think seem to hold people back from ascending the corporate ladder at Deloitte? CS: I think just to call the obvious, there’s definitely a technical component to it. So from a technical skills, the attention to detail, your ability to actually perform the work is one of the key things that will contribute to whether you get promoted or not. But I think that’s the fundamental beyond the technical skill set. There’s a couple of things that comes into mind, I think, one is your ability to build relationship. And it’s not just a client perspective, because we’re in professional service with also internally as well. You need to be someone who works well with other people and be part of a team player. You need to you need to be someone who people want to work with. That’s a huge component of it. I know when I first came into professional service, a colleague once told me there’s always a airport test when we hire and I asked him, what’s the airport test right? And my interviewers at the airport test is if I’m stuck with you at an airport lounge for eight hours, do I still feel like I want to talk with you on the rest of the project, or as I am, I try to avoid you for the entire duration. Because if I don’t want to be in the same space with you for a prolonged time, then you’re not someone who’s going to contribute to my happiness or someone I want to work with. So I think that’s one key component of being able to build relationships being re get along with people and be part of a team player. The other thing is flexibility. In professional service you in the guest room, a lot of different problems you can have for a lot of different projects and a lot At different industries, being able to be flexible to be a quick learner and picking up different skill sets that you need. Every project to me is is brand new. You know, one day I’ll be working on and consumer good client the next day I could be working on a technology client. While I’m still working on M&A projects for them, there’s a fundamental difference to how a technology versus a consumer goods company is operated. And I have to be very quick to learn those and be flexible to adapt to different business models. So being able to adapt is huge in our business. AW: Wow, Cherry, I love your answer. So first of all your story about the airport, I think being stuck. I could, I was imagining myself actually stuck at the airport with you. And I was thinking, that’d be great. I mean, relatively speaking. So I love that I love how you illustrated that with a story. But I was thinking it reminds me also of you know, in elementary school, in our report card, they would say Plays Well With Others. And you know, some parents may dismiss that as whatever. But no, it’s really important. If you can’t play well with others, you probably can’t work well with others. Right? I love that. And then your second point about agility and pivoting. And I think that, you know, the whole COVID pandemic has really exaggerated the fact that the ability to be agile, to move quickly, to refocus is a huge skill. And if you don’t have it, you know, your careers dead. Let’s move on then to different ways that people are working on their interpersonal skills, their relationship skills and their communication skills. And I was thinking, as I was preparing for this interview, that earlier in my career, the idea of seeking help to work on a skill, like actually hiring a coach to come in and help me work on something would be seen as a weakness, only people that were deficient in something would be seeking the help of a coach. But nowadays, people all the way up to CEOs have coaches, and they’re taking workshops. And it seems it’s really the norm. Can you talk about how personal development is perceived within your organization? CS: You know, personal development is very important, it is the new normal. And I think we all hear it all the time, you know, personal development, continuous growth, lifelong learning, it’s something that’s something that’s really positively thought of at the moment in professional service. Personal development is a never-ending cycle. Being able to identify what type of gaps you have and working to fix it is really a great sign of maturity. And a great side of confidence. AW: You know, what you’re reminding me of Cherry is the term vulnerability, right? So, vulnerability used to be a thing to be avoided, being vulnerable meant being weak, and Brene Brown and all of her advocates have now taught us that being vulnerable, maybe identifying what’s making you feel uncomfortable, or a weakness that you want to work on is actually a strength because it’s demonstrating a growth mindset you want to improve? And I guess it makes sense that those are the people that we want around, right? CS: From a personal development perspective, I think there’s multiple facets that we need to look at, there’s obviously a technical perspective, from a professional perspective towards a huge fan of getting you more accredited upskilled. So whether it’s a new certification, whether it’s learning a new skill set and new technology, that’s something the firm is very strongly supporting. But beyond that, there’s also the mental and physical aspect as well. So mental health and well-being and personal development, that aspect is also very important. So thinking about how do you work on your work life balance? How do you make yourself feel better from a physical perspective to give you that confidence, it gives you that boost of energy to do better, I think that’s also part of personal development that people need to consider. It’s not all just a technical aspect… AW: so can you suggest or outline some ways that people in your organization have been working on their soft skills? CS: You know, practice is a key thing. Being able to personally be able to feel yourself in uncomfortable situations, stepping outside of your comfort zone is a huge thing to expanding your skill set and accelerating your soft skill. Now, I’m not talking about throwing yourself in the fire and doing something completely brand new. But even if you’re a person who doesn’t like to speak up a meeting, even volunteering to lead a meeting once in a while, is something that will help you get that practice to enhance your soft skills. One other thing I do is record myself and play back to myself. And it’s horrifying thing to do. It’s a horrifying thing to do to watch yourself and listen to yourself speak and I cringe every time but then you can capture and being an observer, see what you’re doing wrong and what you want to improve on. AW: So I just want to say kudos to you for doing that. Most people even podcasters cringe at you know, going back in the archives and playing something that they’ve already edited nevermind something you haven’t edited. So kudos, kudos to you, I’m sure Cherry that that’s really paid off in spades. CS: Yes, it has. It’s been phenomenal. Seeing the type of improvements and seeing how, what the changes I’ve made in the process. That’s great. Another thing you can do is take out personal development courses. So there are communication courses, negotiation courses, leadership courses out there, both online, physical, even reading a book that will help you upskill yourself. One of the interesting things that you might want to try in terms of communication would be improv, you know, it’s like going to second city and taking that improv class, it really gets yourself out there in a safe environment. Once you get over the hurdle. And again, something that’s way outside of your comfort zone, you’ll see that talking and speaking up in that meeting is a lot easier. And it basically hones your reflexes and communication. AW: Yeah, absolutely. So I actually interviewed two improv comedians, just over a year ago, and it’s one of my really popular episodes. And, and the thing that I think most directly translates to communication skills, is listening. Because if you’re on-stage doing improv, you have to be fully engaged in what the other person is saying. And then you respond with. Yes. And and if you can translate that over into a zoom meeting, right, where someone is saying something you’re actively listening, and you respond with Yes, and you’re off to the races. That’s a great point. CS: And I also need to add that formal or informal mentorship is really important. Being able to ask someone that you trust to provide feedback for you is, it’s phenomenal. It’s difficult to ask for feedback sometimes, because we’re unsure how people will perceive us. So having that mentor as someone who you can bounce ideas off of. And someone who can give you transparent feedback and actually help you create a plan is super important. One of the things I think about feedback is, sometimes you have resistance to it. That’s why you need to find a mentor you can trust because being able to trust your advice, makes it easier for you to accept changes that you may need to make. I suggest everyone to go look for a mentor. It doesn’t have to be formal, but find that person that you trust that they have skills, and they have traits that you want to emulate, and work with them on how do you enhance your skills. AW: Yeah, and I back to the vulnerability point, if you say to the person, I’m really focused on developing my leadership communication skills. And here’s what I’m thinking, can you provide me with some feedback? I mean, the person is going to be impressed, right? CS: Absolutely. Yeah. AW: Anything else in terms of how people in your organization or even how you have worked on developing your soft skills? CS: I think one last thing is just being really reflective, being able to see the failures and the success that you’ve had along the way, and figuring out what can you do better, and what you continue to do the stop start and continue. framework really works, in terms of softening your own soft skills as well. AW: absolutely brilliant. Cherry, I wasn’t expecting you to say that. But using the stop continue start framework for yourself, consciously evaluating your own performance, even just on soft skills. And then, you know, I guess leveraging your growth mindset to improve next time. So do you have any other general career advice for folks who hope to get noticed and get promoted in professional services or really, in any career? CS: Don’t be everything to everyone. You got to pick what you want to be and how you want to proceed? Be flexible. I had mentioned that you know that being able to adapt and flexible to a situation is very important. Communication is key. It’s how you communicate, but also communicating and managing expectations. AW: Brilliant. So you’ve got three things, right? You’ve got not being everything to everyone. So really, it’s your superpower. It’s being flexible. So the ability to pivot, which again, we were talking about, it’s really amplified. And then thirdly, working on your communication skills. And as you put it, your executive presence. CS: Yep. I think those three things are key for any career and at any stage. AW: Yeah, I would agree. It’s true. It’s for whether you’re just starting out your career or whether you’re commanding the whole organization. those are those are absolutely critical. All right. Are you ready to move on to the five rapid fire questions? CS: Yes. AW: Okay, question number one. What are your pet peeves? CS: Running out of sweet things in my home and seeing a weed in my lawn. AW:  What have you tried for weeding? CS: I just pick them up one at a time. Or yell at my husband. AW: haha. okay, question number two, what kind of learner are you? CS: I’m a both a visual and a physical learner. So I learn through doing it and by seeing it at the same time, AW: that’s that’s actually a superpower in itself is knowing how you best internalize information. That’s great. Okay, question number three, introvert or extrovert? CS: I’m an introvert. But I’ve worked on my social skills. I’m very comfortable in high functioning social environments as well. AW: Okay, question number four. What’s your communication preference or medium for personal conversations? CS: for personal conversation, Whatsapp is how you get me. It’s a great tool in which I can see it the other person’s online, I can feel the conversation and know what we talked about. And if I really want to go on a video on call the same app, AW: brilliant. Okay, last question. Is there a podcast, a blog or an email newsletter that you find yourself recommending the most lately? CS: There’s two. One is called a bullet. It’s a newspaper extract. On a daily basis, I get to get the basic news. As soon as I wake up. And the other one is called get abstract. It’s business books on steroids basically give you extracts of different business books. So if you don’t have time in your day to read full books, a 10 minute extract of the key important lessons is the way to go. AW: Wow. So thank you, because you’re, you know, I devour news and I devour books. I’m going to check out both of those – The Bullet and Get Abstract. And I’m also going to share links to those in the show notes so that the listeners can also access them. Is there anything else you want to add about how people can really consciously and explicitly focus on improving their communication skills at work? CS: I go back to practice, practice, practice. Put yourself in environments where you have an opportunity to get practice. And if you think that you’re not getting in those situations, then look – actively seek for it. The more you do, the better you’ll be at it. AW: That’s great. Thank you so much, Cherry. CS: Absolutely. It was my pleasure.   Transcribed by https://otter.ai     THANKS for READING – and Talk soon!   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Web:         https://talkabouttalk.com/ Email: Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com               ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk.   The post #78 PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT: Upskilling to Propel Your Career with Cherry Siu appeared first on Talk About Talk.

Personal branding is more than just the words we say about ourselves. Learn to reinforce your personal brand through consistent implicit communication, ranging from your personal style, possessions, affiliations, how you show up for meetings, and more.  RESOURCES Dr. Andrea Wojnicki Email – Andrea@TalkAboutTalk.com Book Andrea for a free 20min “communication skills training” consult Andrea on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreawojnicki/ Talk About Talk Related podcast episodes: What Our POSSESSIONS Say About Us: https://www.talkabouttalk.com/17-what-our-possessions-say-with-russell-belk/ PERSONAL BRANDING & AUTHENTICITY https://www.talkabouttalk.com/71-personal-branding-authenticity-tmi/ ONLINE PERSONAL BRANDING https://www.talkabouttalk.com/68-communicating-your-personal-brand-online-2/ Website – https://talkabouttalk.com Free Weekly Email Newsletter – https://talkabouttalk.com/blog/#newsletter-signup           ***When referencing resources and products, TalkAboutTalk sometimes uses affiliate links. These links don’t impose any extra cost on you, and they help support the free content provided by Talk About Talk.   The post #77 PERSONAL BRANDING: Reinforcing your Personal Brand with Implicit Communication appeared first on Talk About Talk.