Business of Sport

This week we’re delighted to welcome Graeme Le Saux to the show. A Chelsea, Blackburn and England icon, Graeme played over 500 club games, 327 of them in the Premier League, as well as 36 caps for England. There was more than enough in here to just enjoy some unparalleled sporting nostalgia, from Blackburn’s insane Premier League title to playing in the infamous David Beckham red card match at the 1998 World Cup. But you know that’s not our style; what Graeme brings to this conversation is both a reflection on his experiences handling the turbulent world of a footballer alongside the more macro issues facing the game. He did have a different background, different interests, and unique way of approaching the celebrity that comes with football. Having been a record transfer for a defender when he moved to Chelsea for £5.5m in 1997, he also gets what it is to play with expectation and pressure that can humanise players we fans often treat as emotionless machines.It touches on many of the key points we always look to build on, from asset inflation and club overspending to the responsibility of player education. A special player with a special outlook on both football and life as a top level athlete…and as you’ll no doubt lock onto he brought a big dose of humour to accompany it. Timestamps:00:00 Intro05:28 How the PL Has Changed Since Graeme Played09:25 The Reality of Changing Teams13:08 Is It the Club’s Fault When Talent Leaves for Free?14:36 Are Players Now More Valuable Than Clubs?16:33 How Signing-On Fees Change Transfers24:22 Are Football Clubs Passion Projects or Investments?26:47 How Big Was Abramovich’s Arrival in the Dressing Room?29:56 Thinking About Finances While Playing43:26 Why Many Players Struggle Financially After Football51:01 If I Could Change One Game54:43 The Added Pressure of Social Media on Players59:23 What It’s Like Covering the Premier League in America01:00:39 The Future of MLS01:05:15 Quick-Fire RoundIn Today's Episode We Discuss:1. Life at the Start of the Premier League:What it was like to play before and after the birth of the Premier League.How TV money and sponsorship transformed football into the global powerhouse it is today.The pressure of record transfer fees and why Graeme struggled at first to justify being Britain’s most expensive defender2. Transfers, Contracts & the Media:How moving clubs is about more than football, from dressing-room dynamics to family upheaval.The realities of modern contracts, signing-on fees, and bonuses.Why players today hold more power than ever, and what that means for clubs facing Bosman deals and free transfersHow social media has changed the scrutiny players face, both positively and negatively.3. Blackburn’s Title & Chelsea’s Rebirth:Inside the story of Blackburn’s Premier League win and why money alone wasn’t the reason for their success.What really happened in the final days before Roman Abramovich bought Chelsea and how one game against Liverpool effectively saved the club from administration.Why investment can change a club’s fortunes but only if combined with identity, culture, and the right management.4. Education, Identity & Life After Football:Why Graeme refused to conform in the dressing room and why he’s proud he stuck to his values even when it made life harder.The importance of education and broader interests for young players, and why football needs to do more to support life beyond the pitch.The shock of retirement, coping with irrelevance, and why building purpose and relationships off the field is essential.A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:Stryde Bringing sports investment opportunities to your door. Visit ⁠https://www.gostryde.com/ to become part of the movement!

When we recorded this show the day before James flew out to Baku, we did not expect Williams to be up on the podium delivering in real life what James was theoretically describing to us on the show. Podiums are of course part of the development plan, but not yet. When James came to see us at Business of Sport HQ last week, we talked through both what he has done to position the team for future success, and what he still needs to do. In a sport that requires so many minds pulling together, utilising a vast array of talents, the prospect of building what is popularly termed as ‘winning culture’ could seem daunting; where do you even start? For James, it was recognising that even in a sport of technology and science, people and culture are what makes you win. This weekend’s result would place Williams ahead of where James has set expectations. But don’t get me wrong, this result in Baku will have been celebrated in the halls of Grove, because no matter how long term the strategy for success is, these wins you pick up on the way are integral to showing the team that what they’re doing is on the right path, and from James’ perspective (though he’d never look at it like this) that he’s the man to deliver for them. This is James Vowles on the business of Williams and F1…and a taste of what’s to come.Timestamps:00:00 Intro03:54 Rebuilding Williams Through Culture07:18 Balancing Past Success with a New Identity10:54 Williams’ Long-Term Plan for Success17:31 What Vowles Brings to Sainz & Albon22:35 Can Money Alone Deliver F1 Success?25:22 Does Losing Money Matter in F1 Ownership?28:23 Turning Heavy Investment Into Performance30:45 Williams’ New Revenue Streams34:25 How Teams Compete for the Same Sponsors37:37 Will Formula 1 Control Its Own Platform41:30 Overcoming Challenges as a New Team Principal46:10 The Mediafication of F1 Leadership47:30 Quick-Fire RoundIn Today's Episode We Discuss:1. Rebuilding Williams from the Ground Up:Why James left the comfort of Mercedes to take on the challenge of reviving one of Formula One’s most historic but struggling teams.How he discovered Williams was “a bankrupt organisation” on arrival and why he likens it to running a 50-year-old startup.The long-term plan to make Williams both competitive and profitable again by 2028, balancing heavy investment with financial disciplineHow James is instilling accountability, long-term thinking, and a “break everything” mindset to push the team beyond survival.2. The Culture of Performance:The importance of ego-free leadership from drivers like Alex Albon and Carlos Sainz in shaping a winning environmentThe real split between car and driver performance and why drivers remain the best “sensors” for development.What James learned from working with Schumacher, Rosberg, and Hamilton, and how those lessons are applied to Albon and Sainz today.Why humility, confidence, and resilience separate the very best drivers from the rest3. The Business of F1:The realities of cost caps, sponsorship, and commercial growth in modern F1.Why Williams’ sponsorship strategy is about authentic partnerships, not stickers on a car and how deals like Atlassian reflect the team’s values.James’ candid view on asset values, media rights, and how F1 must evolve its broadcasting model to engage younger fans4. The Future of the Sport:Why two-day race weekends could be the future, and how unpredictability makes F1 compelling.His view on an 11th team, the balance of tradition versus innovation, and how Netflix and Drive to Survive changed the sport’s global appeal.What excites him most about the years ahead: leaving a lasting legacy at Williams and returning the team to the front of the grid.A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:Stryde Bringing sports investment opportunities to your door. Visit www.gostryde.com to become part of the movement!

This week we’re delighted to welcome Patrick Mouratoglou to the show. Patrick is one of tennis' most successful coaches, working with Serena Williams, Naomi Osaka, Holger Rune, Grigor Dimitrov, Simona Halep to name a few. Perhaps most famous for his collaboration with Serena Williams where they won 10 Grand Slams together, it’s regarded as one of the most successful coach-player relationships in tennis history.Alongside this, Patrick is the founder of the world-renowned Mouratoglou Tennis Academy. The academy has nurtured hundreds of elite players including Coco Gauff, Holger Rune and Stefanos Tsitsipas through a personalized, high-performance training model. It combines cutting-edge facilities with academic programs, helping student-athletes from over 45 countries balance education and sport. The academy has become a global brand with satellite centers in China, Greece, Italy, Malaysia, Dubai and the U.S.Patrick’s new book ‘Champion Mindset’ takes the position of transferring everything he has learned in tennis to apply to everyday life. Believe it or not, what makes Serena so successful won’t be too far away from what can work for you, in business, performance, or just general life. I have put the link in the bio (not an advert!) because it’s one of the best books I’ve read. This is an inspiring conversation that I know you will love, whether a big tennis fan or just interested in the philosophies of nurturing top talent.On today’s show we discuss: Coaching the Greats:Inside the 10-year partnership with Serena Williams that delivered 10 Grand Slams and is regarded as one of the greatest player–coach relationships in history.Why courage, honesty, and “never being afraid to get fired” are central to coaching elite athletes.Lessons from working with Naomi Osaka, Simona Halep, Holger Rune, Grigor Dimitrov and others and the unique challenges of guiding champions at different stages of their careers.The Philosophy of Confidence:Why success is built on stacking “little victories” and creating positive experiences every day.How champions like Murray, Djokovic, and Serena win even when they’re not playing well and how to transfer that mindset to business and everyday life.The art of knowing what to say, when to say it, and when to say nothing at all.The Mouratoglou Academy & Champion Mindset:How his academy became Europe’s biggest and now spans 14 global centers, producing players like Coco Gauff, Holger Rune, and Stefanos Tsitsipas.The importance of combining world-class training with education to make tennis accessible beyond the elite.Patrick’s new book Champion Mindset and why the same principles that drove Serena to greatness can apply to anyone in sport, business, or life.Champion Mindset by Patrick Mouratoglou (Yellow Kite: £20)A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:StrydeBringing sports investment opportunities to your door. Visit www.gostryde.com to become part of the movement!

This week we’re delighted to welcome Mark Hammond to the show. Mark is the CEO of Bromley, one of the EFL’s emerging success stories. Having only played one full season in the football league and finishing a hugely respectable 11th last year, you’d be forgiven for thinking that the the early stages of this club’s acclimatisation to top level football would focus on consolidation and survival. You’d be wrong, as Mark clearly told me when about to assume the same thing; this is a club whose ambition is once again promotion.But it is not just the work the first team are doing on the pitch that makes Bromley such a standout case. An academy system that focuses not just on supplying players for the first team but also providing an education and opportunities beyond the pitch for hundreds of children is going a long way to fixing some of the big problems football has when players give up everything to chase the (almost) impossible dream. Mark’s career as a player, coach and now CEO is not the path you often see to top football executive, but that’s what endears. Different ideas and approaches to building exciting, sustainable entertainment products doing the best for their fans and communities requires a different approach. ‘We’re not teaching our kids to be professional footballers; we’re teaching them to be professionals in football’. On today’s show we discuss: The Rise of Bromley FC:How Bromley went from non-league football to mid-table in their first-ever EFL season.Balancing ambition with discipline: why promotion is the goal, but not at the expense of financial sustainability.Why the relationship between owner, chief executive and manager is at the core of Bromley’s success.Community and Education at the Heart:Why Bromley is built on being a true community club, with over 350 students and 58 grassroots teams pulling on the Bromley shirt every weekend.How the club’s education system provides career pathways beyond playing. Creating “professionals in football,” whether as coaches, analysts, physios, or teachers.The importance of honesty with young players about their chances of “making it,” while still giving them an elite environment to grow.Building a Sustainable Club Model:The challenge of competing with bigger budgets while staying disciplined and creative.The academy and B-team strategy that develops players at different stages and how Bromley is already producing players for the Premier League and England youth teams.Why the best coaches in the club must be with the U14s and U18s, preparing players for the toughest transitions in football.The Future of Bromley FC:Developing Hayes Lane into a 6,000+ seater stadium and building the infrastructure for long-term growth.The balance between selling talent and ensuring homegrown players get their chance in the first team.Why the club embraces being part of fans’ “second team,” and how schools and grassroots football are key to building the next generation of supporters.A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show:StrydeBringing sports investment opportunities to your door. Visit www.gostryde.com to become part of the movement!

This week we’re delighted to welcome Dominic Thiem to the show. We’ve waited nearly 100 shows but finally tennis has arrived, right in the middle of the US Open, which Dominic won in a 5 set epic in 2020. One of the few non-Federer, Nadal, Djokovic players to win a slam while those three were at their peak, Dominic’s career saw him win 17 ATP titles alongside the Slam before being forced into retirement at just 31 through injury. But in his own words, Dominic describes this as a ‘new beginning not a farewell’. From playing through the most incredible era tennis has seen, losing two French Open finals to Nadal and one Australian Open to Djokovic, receiving over $30m in prize money; this is a serious education that few could even think about experiencing. So how is Dominic applying this to his life away from the court, and what is it like for a tennis player when they move on from an individual sport that requires your 100% focus? As a big tennis fan, this was a special show to do with one of the most normal and humble athletes we’ve had the pleasure of meeting. A different conversation full of unique insight delivered through the sharing of stories that we all want to know about.  On today’s show we discuss:  The Power of Grand Slams: What makes the four Grand Slams such incredible events to participate in…and which one did Dominic enjoy the most? Playing Rafael Nadal in two French Open finals and the aura that surrounded one of the sport’s greatest ever players. Dominic’s triumphant 2020 US Open victory; coming from two sets down to achieve his lifetime ambition. The pain of loss and the 2020 Australian Open final defeat to Djokovic. The Finances of Tennis Players: Is the distribution of revenue from tournaments to players sufficient? Can you carve out a career for yourself if you are outside of the world top 100? The importance of capitalising on success to build your value as a brand off the court. A look at the ATP’s ‘Baseline Initiative’: does the effort to ensure players have a minimum fixed annual salary work? What was it like to receive his first paycheck of €4,000 just for playing in a tournament? How are the finances divided up amongst the players team when prize money is received? How it can cost nearly $1m for a young player to reach the top of the sport! The Tennis World Today: How important has the rise of Alcaraz and Sinner been to carry forward this next phase of tennis? The importance of academies and investment into tennis to make the pathway for young players easier to navigate. Is tennis about to see a LIV golf style disruption?  What rules would Dominic change to make the sport more appealing to the audience of today? A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show: Stryde Bringing sports investment opportunities to your door. Visit www.gostryde.com to become part of the movement!

This week we’re delighted to welcome Simon Massie-Taylor to the show. Simon is the CEO of The newly branded Prem Rugby. The competition has faced well publicised challenges in recent years, with clubs going bust and broader questions around the viability of the sport as an attractive investment. But with attendances on the rise, commercial income flowing, major long term broadcasting deals and the Red Bull marketing machine as a new stakeholder, this is a competition looking forward not backwards.  With talk of challenger leagues and continual disruption to the established order of rugby, this is a perfect time to understand why Prem Rugby and broader club rugby in England still holds the greatest appeal. The challenge is grabbing that opportunity; an unrelenting commitment to ensure when fans tune into the sport away from the international game, that this is the competition they turn to. Let’s see what the plans are. On today’s show we discuss:  Investment in Prem Rugby: Why did Red Bull decide to invest in Prem Rugby with their purchase of Newcastle Falcons? Is club rugby a good investment when there are so many opportunities to buy assets in broader sport? There has been a new type of investor coming into rugby. Why is this important? Can you continue to run a league when clubs continue to lose money? What type of profile to Prem Rugby want to see from prospective owners? Improving the Product: Despite all the challenges the game has faced over the last 10 years, attendances are rising, media deals are getting bigger, commercials are stronger than ever. Why? The importance of attracting a new audience while maintaining the relationship with the existing fanbase. Why more isn’t always better; the challenger league conundrum.  Aligning the global calendar to ensure a clash of major tournaments does not diminish the quality of the game.  Financial Sustainability is Essential: What is the importance of good governance in rugby? Why understanding the responsibilities of each organisation and their executives will allow for a future of collective progress; rising tide lifts all boats. What did the CVC deal allow the league to do, and is more private equity investment on the horizon? How is the salary cap facilitating more responsible financial management? What does the future hold? Better financial performance and regulation to drive the commercial and investment viability of the sport. A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show: RUNNA Whether you’re an existing use or if it’s your first time on the app, use the code below for exclusive access! https://join.runna.com/lKmc/redeem?code=BOSRUNNA  

Michael Beale is part of a top crop of young English managers. At 44, he has already managed QPR, Rangers, and Sunderland, while also forming a successful partnership as Steven Gerrard’s assistant at Rangers, Aston Villa and Al-Ettifaq. As virtually every manager quickly comes to realise, there’ll be some roles that work out, and some that don’t, but the most important thing to learn from the experiences that don’t turn out how you’d hope and come back a better coach and manager…there is a difference. Michael’s roots are in youth development, and has played a huge role in the development of both Chelsea and Liverpool’s academies over the years. Spotting, nurturing and improving talent is far away from the skills you may utilise leading a top first team, but for Michael, the root of everything is the relationships a manager has with their people and understanding how to build a culture that encourages development while maintaining an expectation to win. This is a look into football leadership unlike any show we’ve done. Don’t get lost in situations that haven’t worked for Michael; take a listen to the approach to leading in the modern football environment and what it takes to operate successfully in these now global businesses. A big thank you to High Performance who, if you’re watching, you will have noticed lent us their studio covering a last minute Business of Sport HQ glitch.  On today’s show we discuss:  The Roots of Coaching & Youth Development: How Michael’s journey began in a church hall in Bromley before moving into elite academies at Chelsea and Liverpool. The key traits he looks for in players as young as six years old, and why natural enthusiasm and competitiveness matter more than early perfection. The importance of relationships in youth development between coaches, parents, and players and how those lessons shape his philosophy today. The concept of “100 games” as the benchmark for players finding their true level. Managing at the Top Level: Why clarity of vision and remit from ownership is crucial when stepping into management roles at QPR, Rangers, and Sunderland. The demands of working with sporting directors, boards, and the media The reality of hire-and-fire culture in football, and what Michael has learned from the highs and lows of management. Why English football must allow mavericks to thrive. Global Perspectives & Opportunities Abroad: What Michael discovered working in Brazil and Saudi Arabia, and why culture is so influential in shaping players and footballing identity. The opportunities and challenges for British coaches abroad, and why he believes more should follow in the footsteps of Bobby Robson and Terry Venables. The ambition to return overseas in the future and the lessons learned from adapting to new footballing environments. Why he feels, at 44, he’s only just getting started as a manager, and what his long-term goals in football look like. A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show: RUNNA Whether you’re an existing use or if it’s your first time on the app, use the code below for exclusive access! https://join.runna.com/lKmc/redeem?code=BOSRUNNA  

It’s a different take this week; welcome to Formula 1 on water! SailGP has become one of the fastest growing sports leagues, bringing sailing to the forefront of modern entertainment. The national teams that race identical F50 Catamarans go to some of the world’s most enticing coastal locations in a Grand Prix style format with millions in prize money on the line. The franchises are valued between $50m+ and owners include major PE and finance as well as consortiums of celebrities including Kylian Mbappe, Ryan Reynolds, Hugh Jackman and Anne Hathaway. As Managing Director, Andrew is in charge of the global water show as it continues to develop its product and fan base. But how do you successfully build and establish a new sporting product that delivers both the entertainment factor while proving financially sustainable? We talk about the competitiveness of the modern attention economy; the race is on (literally) to capture that audience and develop a new type of sailing fan. If you haven’t seen what SailGP is about, I highly recommend you take a look. Let’s see what it’s all about. On today’s show we discuss:  Building SailGP Into a Global Sport How Larry Ellison and Sir Russell Coutts created a commercially sustainable sailing league from scratch Why SailGP is designed like “Formula One on water” with national teams racing identical high-tech F50 catamarans The governance issues in the America’s Cup that inspired a new model Why centralising boat design, technology, and costs levels the playing field and attracts investors Ownership, Investment & Growth How franchise values have grown from cost-covering investments to $50M+ assets What makes the ideal SailGP owner and why passion for sailing matters The role of celebrity investors like Kylian Mbappé and the importance of authentic involvement The future expansion plan, from Italy and Brazil to potential markets like China, Japan, and Mexico The Business Model & Financial Sustainability How SailGP’s cost cap protects teams while encouraging investment in marketing and fan engagement Breaking even in professional sport: how top teams generate $8–9M in revenue Key revenue streams: sponsorship, branding on boats, hospitality, merchandise, and ticketing Why data sharing between teams improves competition and performance Fans, Media & the Attention Economy How SailGP is attracting younger fans through TikTok and YouTube Why 70% of Auckland event attendees had never been on a sailing boat The league’s broadcast strategy and challenges in monetising media rights Plans for behind-the-scenes content to rival Drive to Survive The long-term vision for 20+ national teams and global fan bases A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show: RUNNA Whether you’re an existing use or if it’s your first time on the app, use the code below for exclusive access! https://join.runna.com/lKmc/redeem?code=BOSRUNNA  

Mark Devlin is the CEO of Leyton Orient, a team that’s been riding the rollercoaster of English football right on the edge in recent years. From nearly going out of business and dropping into non-league football to bouncing back into League One playoff finals, the fans have been on a ride the few would choose. However, new ownership and big plans to build both on and off the pitch make this London club a hugely exciting football proposition for the next decades.  What has this journey looked like from the inside and how is success being built into the fabric of the future? Having been so close to joining the list that no one wants to be near, alongside Bury, now Morecombe and even Sheffield Wednesday, Orient’s struggles are another glaring reminder of the house of cards an owner financing model presents to the Football League.  Mark is an experienced CEO, leading Brentford through the early years of their ride to Premier League consistency. His take on what is required to build a club for the community and fan while keeping the finance team happy is what sets the O’s apart, and promises big things for a fanbase juggling the mixed emotions of just being happy to still have a football team alongside a want and expectation to win. On today’s show we discuss: Recovering from Financial Disaster: They story of Leyton Orient's near terminal financial crisis; what happens when a club runs out of money and the owner will no longer cover the losses? Relegation to non-league football and the impact falling through the decisions has on a club. How do you claw yourself out of a situation like this. The stories are often of disaster, but Leyton Orient have more than recovered in the past few years. Are they in a better place now than they were before? The Value of New Ownership: What are the ambitions of new owner David Gandler and why did he decide to buy the club earlier this year? Where does the value lie in modern day football? What areas of the club need to be developed to both elevate the fan experience and make more money to fund the desired growth? What does it take to build a new stadium: from finding a site to financing a project in the hundreds of millions. Why this is an opportunity to build something that stretches beyond football; the value of a multi-sport model. Matching Ambition with Longevity:  Finding the balance between financial sustainbility and ambition is the hardest part of modern football ownership/management; what is Orient's plan to chase promotion while ensuring the business is safe? How much does it cost to get promoted? The crazy finances of the Championship laid bare... What did Mark learn from his time in charge of Brentford and applying some of the model they have so successfully been able to implement to reach and thrive and in the Premier League. The ambition is to be a sustainable Championship club, but do they dare to look beyond this? A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show: RUNNA Whether you’re an existing use or if it’s your first time on the app, use the code below for exclusive access! https://join.runna.com/lKmc/redeem?code=BOSRUNNA  

Peter McCormack is the Owner and Chairman of Real Bedford, who play in the 8th tier of English Football. But this is unique for a number of reasons. We always look for the stories that represent a different approach to running sports assets, and building your Premier League ambition around Bitcoin is certainly one of those. Peter is the host of one of if not the biggest Bitcoin podcasts. As you’ll hear his journey to club ownership is as colourful as it is extraordinary; this is someone who has come through some challenging times to get to where he is now. As you’ve just heard in the intro, everyone laughed at him when he laid out the plan for Real Bedford, but with a wealth of both deep pocketed sponsors and investors, most notably the storied Winklevoss twins (of Olympic rowing, Facebook lawsuit, and Gemini fame to many of you I’m sure), this is quickly becoming a team with both the resources and strategy to fly up the pyramid. With a women’s team competing in the third tier and proving equally ambitious, the plan is to build a club fully representing the community, full of opportunity and success. The usual challenges remain: success vs profit, full attendances, wider football governance. But as this is a place where we want to look at how to create sustained value beyond football’s historic and increasingly out of date financial levers, the Real Bedford model is a captivating alternative. Not for everyone, not guaranteed to work, and certainly unorthodox, but a bold attempt to break the wheel. On today’s show we discuss:  Buying a Football Club How Peter went from addiction to building a media brand around Bitcoin The inside story of how Peter bought Real Bedford FC with podcast money How he convinced the Winklevoss twins to back a team in the tenth tier Why Real Bedford is run more like a startup than a sports club The brutal financial reality of owning a non-league football team Why so many lower-league clubs are unsustainable Brand, Identity & Culture Why Real Bedford has a clearer identity than most football clubs The value of cult storytelling, local community, and crypto-native branding What clubs get wrong about women’s football and how Real Bedford does it differently How ambition and relentlessness are what drives the project Why does crypto present an opportunity on the financial side of football ownership that traditional approaches miss? Leadership & Legacy What owning a football club taught Peter about management, burnout, and ego Why he’s building a club for his kids, not just for wins How he thinks about failure and what he’d do differently next time "It's not all about winning": Having this approach allows you to recognise success in broader terms, but does it only work at a lower level? A huge thank you to our amazing partners on the show: RUNNA Whether you’re an existing use or if it’s your first time on the app, use the code below for exclusive access! https://join.runna.com/lKmc/redeem?code=BOSRUNNA