
This Is Not Church Podcast
This Is Not Church podcast offers a compelling and thought-provoking exploration of the intersections between deconstruction, activism, spirituality, and the LGBTQIA+ community, as well as vital issues like Black Lives Matter and First Nations' rights. Hosted by passionate individuals who are dedicated to fostering open and inclusive conversations, this podcast delves into the complex journey of deconstructing one's faith, while simultaneously embracing and advocating for the rights and stories of the LGBTQIA+ community, as well as the fight for racial justice within the Black Lives Matter movement and the preservation of First Nations' cultures and rights. With a focus on examining the evolving landscapes of faith and identity, "This Is Not Church" provides a safe and informative space for listeners to engage with narratives of self-discovery, resilience, and transformation, ultimately encouraging a more empathetic and understanding society.
Latest episodes

Jul 25, 2022 • 1h 5min
Purity Culture - The Shaming Of A Generation: A Conversation With Linda Kay Klein
In this episode we chat with Linda Kay Klein.
Linda Kay Klein (she/her) is author of the award-winning book, Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free. She is also a religious deconstruction & purity culture recovery coach, and the founder and president Break Free Together, a not-for-profit organization serving individuals recovering from gender- and sexuality-based religious trauma.
Linda has spoken around the world from the TEDx stage to The Apollo’s Women of the World Festival. Her work has been featured by the New York Times, NPR, CBS, NBC, Elle Magazine, and over 150 other outlets. Linda is a trained Our Whole Lives (OWL) sexuality education facilitator, and holds an interdisciplinary Masters degree in gender, sexuality and religion from New York University.
Linda has worked in the social change sector for over two decades. Her background includes founding a program on how to find and follow your purpose used in over 200 universities for the social entrepreneurship incubator, Echoing Green, and working with million dollar donors supporting women and girls through Women Moving Millions.
Linda is married to a writer and social change agent who inspires her every day, and has a daughter in diapers and another in college.
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jul 18, 2022 • 1h 25min
Evangelical Anxiety: A Conversation With Charles Marsh
In this episode we chat with Charles Marsh.
Charles Marsh is a professor of religious studies at the University of Virginia. His books include God’s Long Summer: Stories of Faith and Civil Rights (Princeton), which won the 1998 Grawemeyer Award in Religion, and Strange Glory: A Life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer (Knopf), which was shortlisted for the 2015 PEN/Jacqueline Bograd Weld Award for Biography and won the Christianity Today Book Award in Biography/History. Charles' latest book Evangelical Anxiety was released june 2022. He lives in Charlottesville, Virginia.
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Check out the Lived Theology website
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jul 11, 2022 • 1h 12min
Stay Put, Save The Planet, Be Happy: A Conversation With Frank Schaeffer
In this episode we chat with Frank Schaeffer.
Frank Schaeffer is a New York Times bestselling author of more than a dozen books. Frank is a survivor of both polio and an evangelical/fundamentalist childhood, an acclaimed writer who overcame severe dyslexia, a home-schooled and self-taught documentary movie director, a feature film director of four low budget Hollywood features Frank has described as “pretty terrible.” He is also an acclaimed author of fiction and nonfiction and an artist with a loyal following of international collectors who own many of his paintings.
You can connect with Frank on:
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jul 4, 2022 • 1h 13min
A Participatory Theology: A Conversation With GabrielGordon
In this episode we chat with Gabriel Gordon.
Gabriel Gordon graduated with a double major in Anthropology and Cross-Cultural Ministry from Oklahoma Baptist University. He is currently working on his Master of Theological Studies at Portland Seminary. He is the director of student ministries with Christ Church Episcopal and a co-founder of The Misfits Theology Club: a blog dedicated to working towards unity amongst diverse Christians. Hist latest book God Speaks: A Participatory Theology of Biblical Inspiration was published by Quoir Books in June of last year.
You can connect with Gabriel on:
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Check out the Misfits Theology website
You can purchase God Speaks at Amazon.com
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jun 27, 2022 • 1h 43min
Deep Diving Into Deconstruction: A Conversation With Phil Drysdale
In this episode we chat with Phile Drysdale.
Here is Phil's bio in his own words. I’m not a world renowned theologian, I’ve not been through years of seminary, I’ve not even been a pastor of a church. However I have something going for me that many do not… I’m never scared to ask questions of what I believe. If what I’m standing on is a solid foundation then it will stand. If not – then I’m glad to be shot of it! My heart is to get you to think for yourself, challenge everything you’ve ever been taught, driving you to a conversation with God, a study of the Scriptures to find out if any of your beliefs need to change.
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Check out the Deconstruction Network at this website
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jun 20, 2022 • 1h 10min
How We Love Matters: A Conversation With Albert Tate
In this episode we chat with Albert Tate.
Albert Tate is the founding and lead pastor of Fellowship Church in Los Angeles County California. He began his ministry pastoring just a few families at Sweet Home Church in Mississippi before serving the historic Lake Avenue Church in Pasadena, California. Hearing the call from God to plant a church, Albert and his wife, LaRosa, launched Fellowship Church in January 2012. In its short history, this gospel-centered, multiethnic, intergenerational church has already established a solid foothold in the region to the glory, honor, and transformational power of Christ. As a dynamic communicator, Albert is passionate about sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ both locally and globally. He serves on the Board of Trustees at Azusa Pacific University, the Global Leadership Network, and Global Church Planting Organization, Stadia. Albert is the Founder and CEO of The Greatest Story, Inc, and President of Harambee Ministries. He recently published his first book entitled, "How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation". Albert is the proud father of four children: Zoe, Bethany, Isaac, and Micah.
You can connect with Albert Tate on:
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You can purchase Albert's book How We Love Matter at Amazon.com
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jun 13, 2022 • 59min
Stepping Away and Reclaiming a Faith: A Conversation with Barton Breen
In this episode we chat with Barton Breen.
Barton Breen is 59 years old. Originally from Canada he is a dual citizen in the US and has lived in the US for 40 years. He was a minister a district worker and church administrator for 20 years in an evangelical conservative denomination. he left church in 2005 has worked secularly since then. He left church entirely in 2008 while working through a period of deconstruction/reconstruction. He returned to church in 2018 in an Anglican church that focuses on social justice and is embracing and affirming of the LGBTQIA+ community. He is an ally for the gay community and also an ally for the indigenous community. His wife is Cherokee and is a social worker to indigenous families. He lives in Ottawa Canada. Barton has no books to sell, no programs to promote. What you hear is what you get.
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

Jun 6, 2022 • 1h 2min
God Is A Black Woman: A Conversation With Christena Cleveland
In this episode we chat with Christena Cleveland.
Christena Cleveland Ph.D. is a social psychologist, public theologian, author, and activist. She is the founder and director of the Center for Justice + Renewal as well as its sister organization, Sacred Folk, which creates resources to stimulate people’s spiritual imaginations and support their journeys toward liberation.
A weaver of Black liberation and the sacred feminine, Dr. Cleveland integrates psychology, theology, storytelling, and art to stimulate our spiritual imaginations. She recently completed her third full-length book, God is a Black Woman (HarperOne), which details her 400-mile walking pilgrimage across central France in search of ancient Black Madonna statues, and examines the relationship among race, gender, and cultural perceptions of the Divine.
You can follow Christena on:
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

May 30, 2022 • 53min
Do I Stay Christian: A Conversation With Brian McLaren
In this episode we chat with Brian McLaren.
Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a faculty member of The Living School and podcaster with Learning How to See, which are part of the Center for Action and Contemplation. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest book is Do I Stay Christian which was released May 24, 2022 by Macmillan.
You can connect with Brian on:
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Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!

May 23, 2022 • 59min
Chasing Lakes: A Conversation with Katey Walter Anthony
In this episode we chat with Katey Walter Anthony.
Katey Walter Anthony PhD is a professor of aquatic ecology, biogeochemistry, and permafrost science at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. Her research focuses on methane emissions from Arctic lakes, the degradation of permafrost, and their associated feedbacks to global climate through the carbon cycle. She and her work have been featured in National Geographic, Washington Post, 60 Minutes, Vice, The Guardian, the New York Times newsletter, Newsweek, Nature Magazine, and Leonardo DiCaprio’s documentary Ice on Fire. Katey's book Chasing Lakes: Love, Science and the Secrets of the Arctic was released on May 17, 2022 by HarperOne books.
Here is a link to an article about Katey in National Geographic
You can purchase Katey's book Chasing Lakes on Amazon.com
You can connect with us on Facebook Instagram Twitter TikTok
Also check out our Linktree for all things This Is Not Church related
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!