Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. On this episode of the WP Minute+ Podcast, Matt chats with Toby Cryns, founder of Minneapolis-based agency The Mighty Mo!, about what it’s like to run a WordPress agency for 20 years. From building sites in Flash before pivoting to WordPress after Steve Jobs’ infamous “Flash is dead” moment, Toby reflects on the evolution of the web industry, the rise of page builders, and the growing influence of AI on development and client expectations.Toby shares his journey of overcoming fear around AI, his experiments with ChatGPT and Copilot, and how he’s using these tools to develop a WordPress-based project management app. He discusses how the small business and nonprofit web design market is shifting, the impact of DIY platforms like Wix and Squarespace, and the growing divide between clients who want $300 websites and those who need reliable long-term partners. Through honest anecdotes and hard-earned lessons, Toby explores pricing strategies, client relationships, project management, and the power of sticking with WordPress – even amid uncertainty in the ecosystem.Key TakeawaysAI and WordPress Development:AI is useful as a junior-level coding assistant but still requires deep domain knowledge.Tools like ChatGPT and Copilot have saved Toby hundreds of hours on plugin development.AI won’t replace agencies but it will change workflows and create new opportunities.Adapting to Market Shifts:The entry-level web market is increasingly lost to AI and DIY tools.High-end clients may be exploring prototyping internally before approaching agencies.Adaptation is key: agencies that don’t evolve risk becoming obsolete.Running a Sustainable WordPress Agency:Project managers and account managers are game changers for scaling without burnout.WordPress plugins like Beaver Builder and services like ManageWP streamline delivery and maintenance.Raising prices (even a little) can be a healthy, overdue adjustment.Community and the Future of WordPress:Despite recent governance controversies, Toby remains hopeful about the WordPress community.The community is WordPress’ greatest asset – leaders must help rebuild trust and direction.Gutenberg may yet become the publishing backbone of the modern web.Important LinksThe WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribeVisit Toby’s Agency: https://themightymo.com/Connect with Toby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobycryns Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★

Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. In this episode of the WP Minute+ Podcast, Matt sits down with Mario Peshev, founder of DevriX, to discuss how marketing agencies must adapt to industry shifts in 2025. Mario shares insights from running a high-level WordPress consultancy, working with enterprise clients, and navigating the rapidly changing landscape of digital marketing, SEO, and AI. He shared his agency’s transition from general web development to specializing in complex, high-traffic websites and B2B SaaS, all while balancing the demands of an evolving tech ecosystem.The discussion covers the impact of AI on marketing, the diminishing effectiveness of SEO, and how agencies should focus on strategic partnerships with platforms like HubSpot and Salesforce. Mario also shares his perspective on the current turbulence in the WordPress ecosystem, how agencies can stay competitive, and why embracing AI as an operational tool rather than a replacement for human creativity is crucial.Key TakeawaysWordPress & Agency Growth:Agencies must specialize to remain competitive – generalist approaches are becoming less sustainable.WordPress remains a core tool for enterprises, but clients are increasingly exploring alternative platforms like Webflow.Transitioning to consultancy-based models can provide stability in uncertain markets.AI’s Impact on Marketing & Web Development:AI enables faster prototyping but does not eliminate the need for experienced developers.AI-generated content is becoming oversaturated, requiring businesses to differentiate through authenticity and human insight.Marketing agencies should focus on AI-assisted operations while maintaining human-driven creativity.SEO & Digital Marketing in 2025:SEO has become highly volatile, with algorithm changes reducing its reliability as a primary acquisition channel.Agencies should diversify their marketing strategies beyond just organic search.Strategic partnerships with platforms like HubSpot, Salesforce, and AWS can provide sustainable business growth.Navigating WordPress Industry Changes:Ongoing debates around WordPress governance and Automatic’s influence create uncertainty in the community.Despite industry shifts, WordPress remains a powerful publishing platform with a strong ecosystem.Agencies must balance their reliance on WordPress while exploring other viable business models.Important LinksThe WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribeConnect with Mario PeshevTwitter/X: https://x.com/no_fear_incWebsite: https://mariopeshev.com/DevriX: https://devrix.com/ Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★

Nathan Wrigley, a leading voice in the WordPress community and podcaster, dives into the transformative effects of AI on development. He shares personal insights about his initial skepticism towards AI tools and highlights their potential to speed up prototyping while maintaining creative integrity. The discussion also tackles the philosophical implications of AI, such as its capacity to disrupt traditional business models and the evolving role of WordPress professionals in a rapidly changing tech landscape. Wrigley underscores the necessity of adapting to these advancements to thrive.

Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. In this episode of the WP Minute+ Podcast, Matt welcomes Robert DeVore, a seasoned WordPress developer and entrepreneur, to discuss how open source changed his life. Robert shares his journey from launching a cannabis-related WordPress plugin in 2015 to rapidly developing AI-powered tools for the WordPress ecosystem today. He reflects on the challenges he faced in the cannabis industry, particularly being “debanked,” which ultimately pushed him to explore new opportunities in tech.Robert dives into his current projects, including Plugin Pal, an AI-powered WordPress plugin generator that helps developers quickly create and customize plugins. He and Matt also explore the broader impact of AI on development, the sustainability of WordPress in an evolving landscape, and the importance of continuing to innovate within open source. Throughout the conversation, Robert emphasizes how WordPress and open source provided him with a career path that transformed his life and enabled him to give back to the community.Key TakeawaysRobert’s Journey in WordPress & Open Source:Robert initially built a cannabis-related plugin but faced financial barriers due to industry regulations.He learned valuable lessons about business constraints and industry challenges.Pivoted to AI and rapid product development, releasing multiple WordPress tools.AI’s Role in WordPress Development:AI enables faster development, but human oversight is still crucial.Tools like Plugin Pal generate structured, modern WordPress plugins.AI is not replacing developers but augmenting their workflow for efficiency.Challenges & Opportunities for WordPress:WordPress remains a powerful platform for new developers and business owners.Competing with newer, AI-driven platforms requires emphasizing the flexibility of open-source solutions.Governance and leadership concerns in WordPress are ongoing but shouldn’t deter innovation.Building a Business with Multiple Products:Robert embraces a diversified product approach rather than focusing on a single flagship plugin.Rapid product development allows him to test ideas and iterate based on user feedback.Twitter/X plays a key role in his marketing and community engagement.Important LinksThe WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribeConnect with Robert DeVoreTwitter/X: https://twitter.com/DevioRobertWebsite: https://robertdevore.com/Plugin Pal: https://pluginpal.app/ Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★

Steve Burge, founder of PublishPress and expert in WordPress plugins, discusses why publishers continue to favor WordPress amidst competition from Substack and Ghost. He reflects on his journey through education and content management, emphasizing the strengths of WordPress as an open-source solution. The conversation dives into the challenges posed by simpler platforms, innovations like Newspack, and the role of AI in publishing. Burge also highlights the need for clearer governance in the WordPress ecosystem to ensure its future sustainability.

Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. In this episode of the WP Minute+ Podcast, Matt welcomes Nat Miletic, founder of Clio Websites, to discuss the challenges and strategies for scaling a WordPress agency in 2025. Nat shares insights into the evolution of WordPress development, the role of AI in agency workflows, and how agencies can adapt to a rapidly changing digital landscape. He emphasizes the importance of standardizing workflows, focusing on client relationships, and leveraging AI to streamline operations while maintaining the human touch.The conversation also covers the ongoing debate around page builders vs. custom development, why clients are drawn to platforms like Webflow, and how agency owners can differentiate themselves in a crowded market. Nat highlights the need for agencies to specialize, build efficient processes, and offer value beyond just website development. He also shares his experience growing Clio Websites from a solo venture to a thriving agency, including his hiring strategy and project management approach.Key TakeawaysWordPress Agency Challenges & Growth:WordPress remains a powerful CMS, but fragmentation in tools and workflows can be overwhelming.Specializing in a particular stack (like Elementor or Bricks) helps streamline development and improve efficiency.Scaling requires hiring the right people and removing bottlenecks in workflow management.AI & Automation in Web Development:AI is a valuable tool for SEO, content creation, and code assistance, but it won’t replace human creativity.Agencies should embrace AI to optimize processes, but client relationships remain a key differentiator.Future pricing models may factor in AI usage, with clients choosing between human-led and AI-assisted development.Competing with DIY Platforms & Other CMSs:Platforms like Webflow and Wix appeal to clients due to their branding and perceived simplicity.Education is key—agencies must communicate the long-term benefits of WordPress over closed ecosystems.Many businesses prefer expert-built solutions rather than relying on DIY website builders.Scaling a WordPress Agency:The key to agency growth is hiring strategically and standardizing processes.Transparent pricing and client pre-qualification save time and lead to better-fit projects.Implement clear project management structures and defined SOPs (standard operating procedures) to improve workflow efficiency.Important LinksThe WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribeConnect with Nat Miletic:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natmileticTwitter/X: https://twitter.com/NatMileticClio Websites: https://cliowebsites.com/ Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★

Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. In this episode of the WP Minute+ Podcast, Matt sits down with Tessa Kriesel, a seasoned expert in developer relations and founder of Built for Devs. Once deeply involved in WordPress, Tessa now works with developer-focused companies to help them engage technical audiences authentically. She shares insights on how companies can build trust, engage communities effectively, and think strategically beyond traditional marketing.The conversation examines challenges freelancers and agencies faced in 2024 and what to expect moving into 2025. Tessa discusses the shift in DevRel from casual relationship-building to strategic engagement, the evolving role of AI in development, and how the tech industry is tightening budgets while demanding clear ROI. She also shares advice for WordPress product makers on pricing, sustainability, and community-building. She encourages them to challenge outdated practices like underpricing plugins and relying solely on Black Friday sales.Key TakeawaysThe Role of Developer Relations (DevRel)DevRel isn’t just about attending WordCamps and networking; it requires strategy and delivering value.Companies must build authentic relationships with developers while aligning with business objectives.WordPress has a strong community, but other ecosystems also foster deep connections.Challenges in 2024 & Looking Ahead to 2025Economic pressures are causing tech companies to scrutinize spending and demand clear ROI.VC funding has shifted focus from user adoption to revenue generation.The lack of trust in marketing and business interactions makes it harder for companies to gain traction.WordPress & Business GrowthMany WordPress companies still underprice their products, following outdated open-source pricing models.Product makers should focus on value-based pricing rather than low-cost models with limited revenue potential.Relying on Black Friday discounts as a primary sales strategy is shortsighted. Products should be priced for sustainability year-round.The Role of AI in Development & BusinessAI is a powerful tool for efficiency but still requires human oversight.Companies investing in AI-driven solutions must balance automation with trust-building.Developers who integrate AI into their workflows will gain a competitive edge but won’t be replaced entirely.Important LinksThe WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribeConnect with Tessa KrieselLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tessak22/Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/TessaK22Learn more about Built for Devs: BuiltFor.Dev Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★

Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. In this episode of the WP Minute+ Podcast, Matt welcomes Laurence Bahiirwa, a WordPress developer at Freemius and the creator of the TechiePress YouTube channel. Laurence shares his journey from being a high school ICT teacher to freelancing and eventually landing a role at Freemius. He discusses how his YouTube channel played a crucial role in securing his current job, acting as both a portfolio and proof of his expertise.The conversation explores content creation challenges, the importance of balancing a full-time job with a YouTube channel, and how AI is transforming WordPress development. We also explore the role of WordPress in education, how it serves as a gateway for aspiring developers, and how AI tools like ChatGPT and GitHub Copilot make coding more efficient. He also gives insights into Freemius’ latest initiatives, including improvements in data portability for plugin and theme sellers.Key TakeawaysWordPress as a Career Path:Laurence started as a high school teacher before transitioning to freelancing and Freemius.His YouTube channel helped him stand out in job applications.WordPress serves as a foundation for learning broader web development skills.Content Creation & YouTube Journey:Laurence started creating videos to fill gaps in WordPress development content.Balancing content creation with a full-time job is a challenge.Technical videos require significant preparation and editing time (6+ hours for a 15-minute video).AI & WordPress Development:Using AI tools like ChatGPT and Copilot for development efficiency.AI accelerates problem-solving but still requires human oversight.Laurence sees AI as a tool for educators to enhance learning, not replace it.Freemius & Data Liberation:Works on improving data export options for Freemius users.Freemius has trained an AI-powered bot to assist with documentation searches.Emphasizes transparency and control over user data.Important LinksThe WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribeLaurence’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@techiepressConnect with LaurenceTwitter/X: https://x.com/omukiguyBluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/omukiguy.bsky.socialWebsite: https://omukiguy.com/Freemius: https://freemius.com/ Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★

The podcast dives into the overuse and misinterpretation of 'open source,' especially within WordPress. It discusses the nuanced differences between open source code and brand value, alongside the evolving dynamics of WordPress governance. Concerns are raised about Matt Mullenweg's control and the growing appeal of closed-source alternatives. The conversation questions whether society is transitioning toward proprietary solutions, influenced by real-world business needs and the sustainability challenges of open-source models.

Say thanks and learn more about our podcast sponsor Omnisend. In this episode of the WP Minute+ podcast, Matt sits down with Victor Ramirez, an experienced technologist working at the intersection of WordPress and data analytics. The conversation explores the challenges WordPress professionals will encounter in 2025, from increasing competition in the CMS market to the impact of AI on development and marketing.Victor shares insights from his career working with enterprise organizations like News Corp, The Knot Worldwide, and Sotheby's. He discusses how AI is reshaping development workflows, making some roles obsolete while creating opportunities for those who learn to harness AI effectively. He also discusses the evolving WordPress landscape, including the shift toward headless WordPress, the potential decline in enterprise adoption, and how professionals can adapt by focusing on best practices and scalability.Matt and Victor also explore Upwork's role as a viable platform for high-level WordPress professionals and the increasing importance of SEO, metadata, and analytics in an AI-driven search landscape. They wrap up with a discussion on Gutenberg's impact on WordPress usability and the ongoing debate over whether WordPress should cater to end users or web professionals.## Key Takeaways### WordPress in Enterprise- Large organizations are questioning whether to continue investing in WordPress or transition to platforms like Webflow.- The strength of WordPress lies in its flexibility and open-source nature, but governance and product direction concerns are growing.### AI's Impact on WordPress Development- AI accelerates workflows but also threatens repetitive, low-level development jobs.- Developers who learn to integrate AI into their processes will have a competitive edge.- AI-generated code often lacks consistency and sustainability, reinforcing the value of WordPress as a structured platform.### Freelancing & Upwork Insights- Upwork can be a viable channel for high-level professionals, particularly in enterprise WordPress projects.- SEO plays a critical role in discoverability, with Upwork profiles often ranking higher than individual portfolios.### SEO & WordPress as a Publishing Platform- SEO is evolving beyond traditional keyword strategies into metadata and AI-driven search.- WordPress remains strong for content publishing but faces increasing competition from headless solutions and alternative CMS platforms.### Gutenberg & WordPress Usability- The WordPress Block Editor remains a divisive tool, praised for flexibility but criticized for its lack of structure.- Professionals and businesses need guardrails to prevent content management chaos.### Important Links- The WP Minute+ Podcast: thewpminute.com/subscribe- Connect with Victor Ramirez:Website: https://www.isvictorious.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/isvictoriousss- Learn more about WordPress Enterprise Solutions: https://wpvip.com/  Support us for as little as $5 to join our members-only Slack group. ★ Support this podcast ★