

"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis
Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years.The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
Episodes
Mentioned books

16 snips
Aug 13, 2025 • 3h 14min
Dean W. Ball on America's AI Action Plan & 4 Months at the White House
Dean W. Ball, former White House AI policy advisor, shares his insights on the Trump administration's AI Action Plan. He highlights the importance of private sector innovation in AI regulation while discussing the gap in understanding between the government and AI labs. Dean also delves into the implications of U.S.-China competition in military AI strategies and the concept of agentic commerce. Personal updates reveal his shift toward focusing on family and continuing his work in AI from an external perspective.

102 snips
Aug 9, 2025 • 1h 13min
Jake Sullivan on Navigating AI Uncertainty and Managing Competition with China
Jake Sullivan, U.S. National Security Advisor from 2021-2025, discusses AI as a vital national security matter. He introduces a four-category framework—security, economics, society, and technology—to assess AI's impact. Sullivan emphasizes 'managed competition' with China, arguing for intense rivalry coupled with conflict prevention measures. He raises concerns about the Pentagon's slow AI adoption while noting the private sector's significant role in AI development, hinting at the complexities of modern warfare shaped by this technology.

18 snips
Aug 6, 2025 • 1h 43min
Sovereign AI: Geopolitical Strategy & Industrial Policy for Countries 3-193, with Anjney Midha, a16z
Anjney Midha, a General Partner at a16z with a wealth of software investment expertise, dives into the world of sovereign AI and the implications of China's semiconductor advancements. He explores how 'sovereign AI' varies between enterprises and nation-states, emphasizing local governance and cultural relevance. Midha highlights the strategic importance of U.S.-led semiconductor partnerships for Europe and warns of Huawei's rapidly closing gap in AI capabilities. His insights into balancing national interests with technological independence are both captivating and essential for understanding today's geopolitical landscape.

267 snips
Aug 2, 2025 • 1h 24min
The Revolution in Services: General Catalyst's AI Rollup Strategy, with Marc Bhargava
Marc Bhargava, Managing Director at General Catalyst, dives into the innovative world of AI-enabled roll-ups. He explains how systematic analysis uncovers service sectors where AI can automate up to 70% of tasks. The conversation highlights the transformation possibilities for industries like accounting and legal services, sparking debate on employment impacts. An emphasis is placed on the strategic integration of AI into workflows while addressing concerns around job security, marking a hopeful yet cautious approach to the future of work.

57 snips
Jul 26, 2025 • 2h 12min
Liability for AI Harms: How Ancient Law Can Govern Frontier Technology Risk, with Prof Gabriel Weil
In this engaging discussion, Gabriel Weil, an Assistant Professor of Law at Touro University with expertise in AI liability, shares his insights on harnessing traditional liability law to govern AI development. He argues for using existing negligence and products liability frameworks to hold developers accountable. The conversation dives into real-world scenarios like the Character AI case and voice cloning risks, while proposing the innovative use of punitive damages to incentivize safer AI practices, potentially making risks far costlier for missteps.

47 snips
Jul 22, 2025 • 1h 53min
Private Governance: Creating a Market in AI Regulation, with Dr. Gillian Hadfield & Andrew Freedman
Dr. Gillian Hadfield, a leader in AI regulation at Johns Hopkins, and Andrew Freedman from Fathom explore the creation of private regulatory markets for AI governance. They propose a system that differentiates between goal-setting by governments and technical rule-making by private certifiers, aiming to enhance safety standards. Key discussions include avoiding a race to the bottom among certifiers and lessons from cannabis regulation. The urgency for accountability and adapting legal frameworks around AI also take center stage, addressing the complexities of liability and compliance.

211 snips
Jul 16, 2025 • 36min
The Dawn of Dynamic AI: RFT Comes Online, w/ Predibase CEO Dev Rishi, from Inference by Turing Post
Dev Rishi, CEO and co-founder of Predibase, dives into the revolutionary shift from static to continuously learning AI systems. He explains how reinforcement learning can adapt via ongoing user feedback, showcasing its potential in healthcare and finance. Rishi also discusses the challenges of implementing these dynamic models, like reward hacking and maintaining quality. The conversation highlights the possibilities of 'practical specialized intelligence' as a more stable alternative to traditional AGI, and how it can reshape various economic niches.

116 snips
Jul 10, 2025 • 1h 29min
Cracking the Medical Code: Why Cleveland Clinic Doctors Love Their Ambience Healthcare AI Scribe
Brendan Fortuner, Head of Engineering at Ambience Healthcare, and Ben Shahshahani, Chief AI Officer at Cleveland Clinic, discuss the revolutionary impact of AI on medical documentation. They reveal how AI scribing can improve medical coding accuracy, significantly reduce administrative burdens, and enhance clinician satisfaction. With successful implementation strategies, Cleveland Clinic achieved a remarkable 75% adoption rate among physicians after just one use. The conversation also explores challenges in billing code integration and the promise of AI to improve patient care and operational efficiency.

216 snips
Jul 8, 2025 • 1h 42min
The Data Factory: Inside the $100B Race for Post-Training Supremacy, with Labelbox CEO Manu Sharma
In this engaging discussion, Manu Sharma, Founder and CEO of Labelbox—known for providing cutting-edge training data to AI labs—explores the evolution of AI training methods. He highlights the shift from simple labeling to sophisticated reinforcement learning environments. Sharma reveals how AI labs are investing massively in training data and discusses the nuances of post-training strategies. He shares insights on the competitive AI landscape, the importance of human data, and the interplay of creativity and AI in modern industries.

348 snips
Jul 5, 2025 • 1h 20min
Cheat on Everything: Cluely's Vision for Always-On AI Assistance
Roy Lee, Founder and CEO of Cluely, talks about his standout AI startup that recently snagged a $15 million investment. He introduces Cluely’s real-time assistant, which provides covert insights during meetings. Roy shares his audacious 'cheat on everything' philosophy, tackling the implications of copyright and privacy norms. The discussion touches on how young people's perspectives on work and creativity are shifting in an AI-dominated world, urging society to rethink its relationship with rapidly advancing technologies.