ShanghaiZhan: All Things China Marketing, Advertising, Tech & Platforms

For 20 years, China was about speed and scale, but it seems now that era has ended for many agencies and companies. Sales are dropping; budgets are being cut.  Project pitching is now a weekly thing for many agencies as brands focus solely on performance marketing. How should China businesses adjust for times that may not go as quickly as before? This week we speak to Mark Wang, Senior Consultant at Grace Blue, focusing on executive talent in marketing and communications in China. Mark previously led Edelman China and was Managing Director at OgilvyOne Beijing. Mark has also held positions at Lenovo, IBM and Dell.1.  How do your experiences in tech helped you transition to roles in Ogilvy and Edelman?2.  How different is it managing agencies versus managing business on the client side?3. How do you see the recent China economic trajectories influencing China's market & communications landscape?4. How will strategic planning impact businesses? It's about getting back to the core.5.  How have the agency CEOs reacted to the market and reacted to the changes?6.  Do local agencies have advantages over international ones during these times?7.  What strategies are you recommending to advertisers and advertising agencies for hiring talent in 2024?8. Any advice for those looking for a job out of college?9. A/B Test: People as a Service! Shenzhen & Shanghai (It depends)Mark Wang on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markdwang/About Grace Blue: https://graceblue.com/For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Ali and Bryce were expats in Shanghai; what's it like for two Chinese senior global marketing executives working and living in New York?  Today's podcast interviews Gary Chu and Mark Jiang from the Estee Lauder Companies, based in New York. ELC includes brands such as Estee Lauder, Clinique, MAC, La Mer, and Tom Ford Beauty. Gary was VP for the Online business from 2014 to 2020 and was responsible for leading the company's dominance in China e-commerce across 12 flagship stores. Mark was previously VP and Brand General Manager for MAC Cosmetics China. Mark and Gary are now senior VPs leading Estee Lauder's global online ambition. 1.  What are you responsible for in your current global capacity with the company?2. Where do you think your experiences in China have helped you in your current capacity at ELC?3. How is China now contributing to global beauty? Where do you think it leads to innovation? 4.  Tell us about the super-app phenomenon and how it's spreading globally. 5.  How much of what you're doing related to younger consumers that you did in China?6.  Why can't digital trends in China translate to other markets?7.  What about product innovation from China?8.  Can you explain Chinese beauty, and will it spread to the rest of the world?9.  Any advice for Chinese students now studying in the U.S.? Any tips?10.  How has your NYC experience made you a better and future China leader?11.  Why are American brands better storytellers?  Gary talks about NYC restaurants12. Given the diversity of the market, do you see yourself using more AI tools?13.  Gary's passion for living in NYC: museums, walking and parks14. What do you miss particularly about Shanghai? What do you NOT miss about Shanghai?15.  A/B: Ambiguity, Speed, Fushing or Fujian?

We're talking rock and roll with Dr. Andrew Field, Associate Professor of Chinese History at Duke Kunshan University.  Andrew is the recent author of "Rocking China", a book that traces the rise and spread of indie rock from the rock capital of Beijing to Shanghai and other places in China. Through interviews with key players, Dr. Field explores the meanings of rock music in China society and the many obstacles to developing indie rock in the country.1.  Let's start from the beginning of the "Chinese New Wave" :  how did indie rock make it to China?2.  Why Beijing? Why not Shanghai?3.  The Nirvana/Sonic Youth Effect - where were the rockers getting their ideas?4.  The Wudaokao scene & the cut CDs.5.  What was the main transformation from covers to original music?6.  The Michael Pettis & D-22 Effect7.   What's the government's influence on the rock scene?8.  What were some of the challenges in writing the book? (it was originally a movie!)9.   What was the impact of the rock festivals?10.  Is the scene coming back post-Covid? Will foreigners come back and play again?11.  A/B Test:  Favorite Cui Jian Song, Yuyintang, Hedgehog & ShanghaiGet the book:  https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-China-scenes-Beijing-beyond/dp/9888769936Bryce's 1991 Rock Moment with Cui Jian:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvn8Ql5GOYAAndrew's Chinese Indie Mixtape based on the show:  On Spotifyhttps://open.spotify.com/playlist/7lpk51moJkyxvQXSEiWzrr? si=a2acd26cb50f401cOn QQhttps://y.qq.com/n/ryqq/playlist/8899639769Andrew Field's Blog:  http://shanghaisojourns.net/For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

What does it take for brands in China to transform their businesses to be digital-ready?  We asked Wiredcraft CEO and Co-founder Ronan Berder to provide his insights into what companies need to evolve their businesses. Ronan has been instrumental in driving digital innovation and transformation for such brands as Starbucks, Nike, and Hilton and provides us with stories and strategies behind China's digital revolution.1.  What is digital transformation?  How can you work with these major companies, and what lessons can other businesses learn?2. What has led to such rapid adoption of digital transformation in China? How have payments and digital wallets forced companies to change?3. How much of China is exportable now that you're doing regional markets?4. How much of the type of transformation will help Chinese brands export outside of China?5. How successful have brands done to do it on their own without the big e-commerce platforms?6.  Are there specific categories that benefit from direct-to-consumer business?7.  Is direct-to-consumer too hard, and is it much easier to push media to consumers?8. What are your thoughts about AI, and how can brands use it to maximize their digital transformation plans?9.  What recommendations to get into a business like yours?  Is this truly the future of the advertising industry?10.  A/B Test:  Mini-Programs/Shanghai/Wechat & BurberryRonan on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronanberder/About Wiredcraft:  https://wiredcraft.com/ For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Why was China almost a no-show at the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity this year?  Is it the quality of the work, or is it because China is no longer interested in participating on the global stage? We talk to 2 people who have just returned from Cannes Lions, and they give us their unique perspectives.Today's guests are Robert Sawatzky, Asia Editor Director at Campaign Asia, a part of Haymarket Media. Robert's work has been showcased across various platforms, from CNN to Campaign UK, highlighting his significant influence in the media landscape.Joining Robert, we have Rogier Bikker; Rogier moved to China at age 21 and has made his mark on the digital sector in China over the past 15 years. Known for pushing creative boundaries and winning medals at the Campaign Agency of the Year shows, he sold his agency TOMORROW to S4 Capital's MediaMonks and is now the Managing Director of Greater China.1.  Are awards shows still important? Do they translate to business results?2. What were your high and low points of Cannes?3.  Cannes is still the "World Cup" of the industry and sets the bar for the industry's best.4.  Why didn't China show up?  Only 1% of the submissions from China5.  Is Cannes now becoming a tech show?6. Cannes is still under-represented by young creatives who can be inspired by the show.7.  Is it because Global doesn't understand Chinese creativity, or the creativity is too executional?8.  Was any cool AI stuff, or was it in the work?9. What was your favorite campaign of this show?10. Is China's global conundrum about framing China's innovation for a global audience?11. A/B Test:  Awesome or Average? Of Course, Awesome!Grand Prix Winners We Liked: Cadbury India: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US_1qLyOmUc&t=73sArgentina World Cup Ad (PedidosYa):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGh0-RlrI8Serena Williams Nike Ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehJczf2FEkRogier on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogierbikker/About Mediamonks: https://media.monks.com/Robert on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-sawatzky-80864b4/About Campaign Asia:  https://www.campaignasia.com/For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Stéphane Wilmet, a highly accomplished executive in the consumer beauty industry, joins our show today. With over 30 years of experience, Wilmet has held prominent positions in both the United States and China. Notably, he served as the Chief Consumer Officer at L'Oréal China, where he oversaw consumer strategic branding, insights, foresight, and M&A activities, playing a crucial role in shaping the company's brand strategies and understanding the Chinese market. During the pandemic, Wilmet returned to the United States and worked as the Senior Vice President, of M&A, at L'Oréal USA in New York. He works as an advisor to private equity firms and shares his expertise as a guest lecturer at various business schools.1.  Off-topic, but any interest in buying a motorcycle?2. We know that the beauty business in China is big, but are market nuances that the world can learn from China regarding how business is run here? (Hint:  scale and speed)3.  How did L'Oreal stay vigilant with new product development? 4.  How do we continue to build brands in a deep discount live stream environment?5.  Livestream help cast a net to recruit new consumers, but how do brands deal with high returns?6.  Will Western and Chinese beauty shopping behavior converge? Are shopping patterns becoming the same as digital ecosystems become similar?7.  Do beauty brands need an offline presence given the power of online?8.  Will we have a time that Chinese beauty brands will go global?9.  Any amazing Chinese beauty brands that you have your eye on?10.  How do young people get into the beauty industry?11.  Are men welcome in the beauty industry?12. A/B Test:  Authentic/New York/C/K/J-Beauty - what's C-Beauty's role?/ Virtual KOLsStéphane on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/st%C3%A9phane-wilmet-2121452/For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

We recently had the opportunity to speak with Chris Reitermann, the Co-Chief Executive of Ogilvy Asia and CEO of Greater China, about the role of AI in the advertising business in China. With an impressive 28-year career at Ogilvy, Chris has been instrumental in the successful rise of advertising in China. Ogilvy China is one of the country's largest and most respected agencies, and it was awarded Integrated Marketing Agency of the Year by Campaign Asia in 2022. So, what does Chris have to say about the future of AI in branding in China? 1.  Are we at another crossroads with the rise of AI? How will AI impact the business of advertising in China? Are agencies still relevant?2.  Will AI fully automate the advertising process?  What will be the human role in the creative process?3.  Once far ahead, is China behind the AI curve now?4.  The agency's role has fundamentally not changed, despite the mediums and tools that have changed.5.   Where will China evolve post-Covid, and how has this changed the country's optimism?6.  Where does work/life balance fit into post-Covid agency culture?7.   Is an agency a place for a new recruit, or should they join the brand side?8.  How does Ogilvy balance experts and integration under a single office network?9.  Good growth is just around the corner for both agencies and brands in China10.  Local clients vs. global client needs are different - it's the local clients that want brand building11. What are the biggest challenges for Chinese brands going global?12.  What's the importance of technology for agency services in China?  13.  What's your favorite David Ogilvy quote?14.  Hey, are you still in China? Is China a regional hub?15.  A/B Test:  Creatvity, Shanghai, MidJourney & KFCChris Reitermann on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisreitermann/About Ogilvy China:  https://www.ogilvy.com/cn/eng#workOgilvy China on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ogilvychina/For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Joanna Hutchins is the author of "Chinafy:  How China is Leading In Innovation and How the Rest of the World Can Catch Up," now available on Amazon & Kinokuniya.  In the book, Joanna explores 9 key catalysts that all businesses can effectively "Chinafy" their business.  Joanna has over 25 years of experience leading B2B and B2C businesses globally, with over 20 years of experience in China.  In addition to her many agency roles, Joanna spent over 9 years at Unilever, rising to a Global Brand Director, based in Shanghai.1.  What's the reason for the book, and why are you writing it now?2.  What's the cultural lens of the 9 catalysts, and are these innovations just a question of circumstances?3.  Are Western companies becoming too topical in their strategic planning?  Do we romanticize invention? 4.   Does the size of China makes conditions for small players to compete with big ones?  China remains the world's most competitive market5. What are Big S and Small S?  How can Western companies be more Small S?6.  How does China take advantage of Reverse Innovation, and why is it a big win for the masses?7.  China's Small S example: BYD: would America be ready for a $16,000 electric car?8. Should global brands embrace the catalysts if they do business in China?9.  Embracing China Innovation: KFC10. A/B:  Small S, Data, Year 2023, KFC, BYD & Unilever!Joanna Hutchins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanna-hutchins-aa10772/Buy the book: https://www.amazon.sg/Chinafy-Joanna-Hutchins/dp/9815044508 For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Can Tik Tok market to specific consumer occasions, encouraging trial and purchase?  Meet JJ Wang, Senior Business Leader at WPP agency VMLY&R, based in Shanghai. She's the recent author of an interesting whitepaper about occasion marketing, co-authored with Douyin/Tik Tok.  JJ has been in the industry for about 10 years and believes in building brand culture, even in digital times.  For Myers Briggs fans, JJ is an ESFJ.1.  What's Occasion Marketing, and how is it different from Mass Marketing?2. How does Occasion Marketing work in the digital space?3.  The evolution of China beverage products and the need for multiple occasion moments4. The Pick, Plan, and Lock Model Explained 5.  How many content posts are needed for Occasion Marketing6.  Could Occasion Marketing apply to other categories?7.  Is this more effective than paying an influencer to sell your product?8. Does this extend to other platforms besides Tik Tok?9. Any good insights from the white paper? Gamers love powdered beverages10.  How does impulsiveness work on a social media platform in China?11.  How does Occasion Marketing work for smaller-budget brands?12. Does creativity have a role in Occasion Marketing?  13. Is the ad business still a good place to start for young women?14. A/B Test:  Shanghai, Social, RED, InsightsJJ Wang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.cn/in/jjwangweijiaVMLY&R: https://www.vmlyr.com/ For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/

Recreational camping used to be a niche in China, but now it's become a bit of a rage. The China outdoor market reached $60 billion in 2018 and is expected to hit $100 billion by 2025. By all estimates, around 100 million Chinese go camping every year, which is a small number relevant to the population, but that's a higher number than the 40 million Americans who go camping! What's causing the sudden rise in interest in camping?To discuss this, we have industry veteran Matthew Jung, General Manager Greater China for the German outdoor brand Jack Wolfskin.  Mathew, or as his friends call him, MJ, has been in Asia for close to 25 years, first starting in the hotel industry at Starwood in Hong Kong, before he moved to Taiwan with Nike where he was Marketing Director.  He then moved to Shanghai in 2010 with Nike and later moved to the Converse brand in 2018, where he was VP and General Manager. MJ later joined Jack Wolfskin in January 2022.1.  MJ's journey to Asia through basketball and a one-way ticket2.  How long have you stayed relevant and what makes you stay in China?3.  How did you make the Converse brand successful in China?4.  Converse: a pioneer in inclusion with ShanghaiPride5.  What's made camping a thing in China, and where is Wolfskin fit in?6.  What's Wolfskin's plan?  7.  What does outdoor mean for Chinese consumers?8.  Will there be any product innovation specifically for China in the outdoor category?9.  Do foreign brands still have an opportunity in this category or will they lose to the local competitors?10. Any recommendations to get a cool career path like MJ's?  One word: sacrifice11.  A/B Test:  Basketball, Victoria Harbor & Chicago Deep DishMJ on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/mjfor3/For everything ShanghaiZhan:  http://zhanstation.com/ShanghaiZhan Theme Music:  by Bryce Whitwamhttps://soundcloud.com/bryce-r-whitwam/bad-cough-syrup?si=cfb30a6e0c0e459da78b912bf60825acBryce on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brycewhitwam/Ali on Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/alikazmi/