BibleProject

Dr. Michael Heiser joins the hosts to discuss the significance of God's name and the commandment to not take it in vain. They explore the reverence and respect associated with the divine name and the power and presence it represents. They also delve into the connection between the human-like figure encountered by Joshua and the revelation of the divine name Yahweh.

This is our third Q+R in our God series. Thank you to everyone who sent in questions! Tim and Jon discussed four of the questions we received. Here are the questions and timestamps: Q1: (1:05) Bryce from Chicago I'm currently studying in Chicago at the Moody Bible Institute. A bunch of guys from my floor were watching the Season 5 premiere, and we had a specific question for the God series: How does God's interaction with the world, that is, wanting to co-rule with celestial and terrestrial creatures, relate to God's transcendence and sovereignty? And to all of you at The Bible Project, your work is inspiring and helpful every day––thanks so much! Q2: (11:42) Linda from Portland, Oregon I've heard a Tim Keller podcast sermon on Abraham's conversion with the three visitors he entertains in his tent before they go down to bring judgement on Sodom and Gomorrah as being an intercession like the one between Moses and God. Can you comment on how this earlier Abraham story contributes to the intercession paradigm you talk about from the example of Moses? Q3: (25:15) Brian from Cleveland In God E7, you mentioned Christopher Wright's commentary and explanation of Moses' intercession and the purpose of the narrative. Moses is counting God's consistency despite God's threat. When God relents or changes His mind, He's actually showing Himself to be consistent. My question is this: Is something similar happening in Genesis 22 when Abraham is asked to sacrifice Isaac? There's no explicit mention of Abraham praying or interceding, but his faith in God's consistency is evident. Thanks! Q4: (43:45) Maggie from Wisconsin Tim said that people that are interested in the spiritual realm today usually disconnect it from the political power structures, even though the biblical authors saw the two as intertwined/mirrors. However, it seems that the majority of the demons that Jesus was casting out within the New Testament were in individuals that were not politically powerful people. Show Resources: Archie Wright, "The Origin of Evil Spirits: The Reception of Genesis 6:1-4 in Early Jewish Literature" Clinton Wahlen, "Jesus and the Impurity of Spirits in the Synoptic Gospels" Brian Doak, "The Last of the Rephaim: Conquest and Cataclysm in the Heroic Ages of Ancient Israel" Michael Heiser, "The Unseen Realm." Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents Show Produced By: Dan Gummel Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode continues our series on the development of God as a character in the Bible. This week Tim and Jon have part two of their conversation on God’s attributes used as a character. They discuss God’s Spirit, God’s wisdom, and God’s word. In part one (0 - 33:05), the guys briefly recap last week’s discussion on “God’s Glory.” Then Tim outlines the attribute of God’s word. Tim outlines the first story where “God’s word” is used. Genesis 15:1: "After these things the word of Yahweh came to Abram in a vision, saying, 'Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.'" “The word” is the subject of the verbs (“came” “spoke”). it is “seen” in a vision, and it speaks in first-person divine speech. Tim says that often this nuance gets overlooked, that God’s word appeared in visible form. It’s depicted as a character that can appear to someone. Tim says the point is that often times the weird wording is intentional and should not be overlooked. Tim shares another story in the Old Testament about God’s word. 1 Samuel 3:1-7: "Now the boy Samuel was ministering to the Lord before Eli. And the word of Yahweh was rare in those days, visions were infrequent… and Samuel was lying down in the temple of Yahweh where the ark of God was… then Yahweh called Samuel; and he said, 'Here I am.' Then he ran to Eli and said, 'Here I am, for you called me.' But he said, 'I did not call, lie down again.' So he went and lay down. Now Samuel did not yet know Yahweh, nor had the word of Yahweh yet been revealed [lit. “made visible”] to him…. Then Yahweh came and stood and called as at other times, 'Samuel! Samuel!' And Samuel said, 'Speak, for Your servant is listening.'" Tim shares a final story on God’s word. Jeremiah 1:1-9: “The words of Jeremiah, son of Hilkiah...to whom the word of Yahweh came… [v.4] Now the word of Yahweh came to me saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you…' [v.6] Then I said 'O Yahweh Elohim, I don’t know how to speak, I’m just a youth…' [v.7] Then Yahweh said to me, 'Don’t say ‘I’m just a youth…’' [v.9] Then Yahweh stretched out his hand and touched my mouth and Yahweh said to me, 'Look I have put my words in your mouth.'" Tim says the point is that in all of these passages, Yahweh and Yahweh’s word are the same, and yet distinct. Yahweh’s word is a physical embodiment (it can appear, be seen, it has hands, etc.). So in light of all of this new information, let’s go back to Genesis 1:1-3: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God spoke, 'Let there be light'; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness." God’s identity has three facets in this opening scene: God, God’s ruakh (breath, invisible presence), and God's word. Tim then draws attention to Psalm 33:6, 9: “By the word of Yahweh the heavens were made, all their hosts by the ruakh of his mouth… For he spoke, and it was, He commanded, and it stood.” Tim moves on to discuss God’s Spirit. God’s Spirit is his invisible personal presence, that is God himself as he is experienced by people and personally present in the world. God’s Spirit influences and works through human agents, especially these type of people in the Bible: Prophets: Micah 3:8: "On the other hand I am filled with power—with the Spirit of Yahweh—and with justice and courage, to make known to Jacob his rebellious act, even to Israel his sin." Kings: 1 Samuel 16:13: "Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of Yahweh came mightily upon David from that day forward." Wise people: Genesis 41:38-39: (Joseph) “Pharaoh said to his servants, 'Where else can we find a man like this, in whom is the Spirit of Gods? … There is no one with wisdom or understanding like him.'” Artists and Leaders: Exodus 31:1-4: (Bezalel) “Then Yahweh said to Moses, 'Look I have chosen Bezalel...and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom and understanding, with knowledge and skills, to make designs in gold and silver…'" Deuteronomy 34:9: (Joshua) “Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the Spirit of Wisdom.” God’s Spirit = the divine thoughts and purposes = “mind” Isaiah 40:13-14: "Who has measured the ruakh of Yahweh, And who has informed him with advice? With whom did He take counsel, to be given knowledge? Who taught him...knowledge, or who informed him with understanding?" Notice this close connection between God's Spirit and God’s wisdom. Jon makes a fun analogy by pretending he’s a gerbil. If he was a gerbil and he were to see Tim as a human, he would only understand limited ways that Tim interacted with him. So similarly, when biblical authors experienced God through one of his attributes, they recognized that it wasn't God in his entirety but rather an aspect of him with which humans have been able to interact. In part two (33:05-46:10), Tim continues to outline God’s Spirit. Jon says that he doesn’t think of his presence or mind as an attribute. So why is God’s presence/Spirit considered an attribute? The guys have a brief discussion on the different ideas in philosophy and science asking, “Is our mind distinct from our ourselves, or is it ourselves?" Tim comments that it’s hard for a modern person to have an understanding of God, a being with a mind, but with no known “hardware.” In part three (46:10-52:30), Tim outlines God’s wisdom. Tim says that all of the attributes are designed to flow in an out of each other. So when someone acts under or with God’s Spirit, they are also acting with God’s wisdom. Tim says in the Bible, God’s wisdom is depicted as an influential urban woman who calls out to humanity. This is literary personification. Proverbs 8: 8:1-2: “Doesn’t wisdom call out, and understanding offer her voice. At the top of the heights, by the crossroads she stands…” 8:15-16 “By means of me kings reign, and leaders make just laws. By means of me rulers rule, and officials, and all those who rule with justice.” 8:22-23: "Yahweh possessed me at the beginning of his way, before any of his works of old. From ancient times I was appointed, from the beginning, from the oldest times…" 8:30" “I was beside him as an ‘amon’, I was delighting day by day, rejoicing before him.” "Amon" is an ambiguous word, used only here in ancient Hebrew and is capable of multiple interpretations. It could mean “workman," "apprentice,” but also “child," "nursing-child.” In part four (52:30-end), the guys jump into the New Testament, specifically John 1. Tim says God’s word, Spirit, wisdom, and Genesis 1 are all creatively retold in John 1, but now Jesus is the central character. In this first chapter, John says as clearly as he can that Jesus is Yahweh, but he is also distinct from Yahweh. Jon asks what "only begotten son" means in the Bible? Tim answers that there have been lots of debates over time. The phrase comes from the Greek phrase, "monogenís gios." Some have suggested that it means “the only born son," whereas other theologians have suggested it means “only of its kind.” Tim suggests that people shift their language away from “only begotten” to something like “Jesus is the one and only unique son of all the spiritual beings because he actually shares in God’s identity and is one with God.” Tim offers that in pop culture, often times people are skeptical of the idea of “the trinity.” They think that because the word “trinity” doesn’t appear in the Bible, it might be a later invention of Christianity. Show Resources: Frederick Danker Dictionary. Find all our resources at www.thebible.project.com Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents Praise Through The Valley, Tae The Producer Another Chance, Tae the Producer He’s Always There. Tae the Producer Show Produced By: Dan Gummel Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode continues our series on the development of God as a character in the Bible! Today Tim and Jon zoom in on a confusing part of the Bible: God’s attributes, specifically, God’s name, glory, word, spirit, and wisdom. Today Tim and Jon will be covering the first two attributes, God’s name and his glory. In part one (0-7:15), Tim outlines God’s name in the Bible. Think of God’s name as his “reputation,” and his name is a big deal in the Bible. Tim briefly outlines and says that God’s attributes take on a life of their own. Literally. The attributes play a similar role in the story of the bible that the Angel of Yahweh does. The attribute can be both distinct from and be Yahweh. Tim says that the first time God’s name is revealed in the Bible is at the burning bush in the story of Moses in Exodus 3. God reveals his divine name to Moses, and it is utterly unique and undefinable: “I am who I am.” Yahweh = he is who he is. Tim shares a quote from scholar Gerhard Von Rad: “The name Yahweh was committed in trust to Israel alone among the nations… In it alone lay the guarantee of Yahweh’s nearness and of his readiness to help… This name shared directly in Yahweh’s own holiness, for indeed it was, so to speak, a double of his being. And so it had to be treated as holy in the very heart of Israel’s worship, to 'call on the name of Yahweh' was equivalent to true worship.” Von Rad Old Testament Theology, Vol. 1, p. 183. In part two (7:15-25:55), Tim continues and says that in Deuteronomy we see a fascinating repeated phrase. Moses says that when Israel crosses into the promised land, God will lead them to set up a place of worship, a temple: Deuteronomy 12:4 says, “You are to worship at the place Yahweh your God will choose from among all the tribes to place his name there for it to dwell/take up residence. That’s where you will seek him and go there.” Deuteronomy 12:11 says, “And the place where Yahweh your God chooses to cause his name to dwell, that’s where you will bring your offerings…” Tim says the point is that the unique name of Yahweh in this phrase is personified like a person or being who “lives/dwells” in the temple. Tim moves on and outlines another attribute, God’s glory. God’s kavod = the physical manifestation of God’s important status. Tim highlights Exodus 24:9-11 and God's glory on Mount Sinai. "Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under his feet there appeared to be a pavement platform of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet he did not stretch out his hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank." While this passage doesn’t use the word kavod, they see a physical manifestation of God. This isn’t the only story of a physical manifestation of God. In 1 Kings 22:19, the prophet Micaiah says, “Therefore, hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right and on his left." Then again in Isaiah 6:1-3, "In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of his robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said: “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, The whole earth is full of gis glory (kavod).” Tim says the point is that there is uniformity in these stories. Everyone sees a glorious seated royal figure. Then Tim expands the point with a crazy story in Ezekiel chapter 1. “Now it came about in the thirtieth year, on the fifth day of the fourth month, while I was by the river Chebar among the exiles, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God... As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire. Now over the heads of the living beings there was something like a platform (Hebrew word, raqia, from Genesis 1), like the awesome gleam of crystal, spread out over their heads. Now above the platform that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like sapphire in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a human. Then I noticed from the appearance of his loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of his loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of Yahweh. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking." Tim’s point is that the Ezekiel story is a culmination of this theme. God’s glory and God can be both distinct and indistinguishable from each other. Tim also offers Psalm 26:8. “O Yahweh, I love the house where you dwell, the place where your glory (kavod) dwells.” As a final point, Tim says that all the attributes can weave in and out of each other. God’s glory can also dwell somewhere, just like his name can. In part three (25:55-end), Tim takes a sneak peak at how these themes of God’s attributes pay off when reading the New Testament. Tim dives into John 17. This passage is often called Jesus’ “high priestly prayer.” John 17:1-3, 5: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son, that the Son may glorify you, even as you gave him authority over all flesh, that to all whom you have given him, he may give eternal life. This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent...Now, Father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was.” Tim says the point here is that Jesus was the pre-existent word and wisdom of God, and the embodiment of his divine glory. Then in John 17:11, we see, “Holy Father, keep them in your name, the name which you have given me, that they may be one even as we are one.” Tim says that Jesus and the Father bear “the name” showing that they are one. John 17:20-26: “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in me through their word; that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that also they may be in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. The glory which you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as we are one; I in them and you in me, that they may be perfected in one-ness, so that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you have loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am, so that they may see my glory which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, although the world has not known you, yet I have known you; and these have known that you sent me; and I have made your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.” Thank you to all of our supporters! Check out all our free resources on www.thebibleproject.com Show Produced by: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents He’s Always There, Tae the Producer Another Chance, Tae the Producer Show Resources: Von Rad Old Testament Theology, Vol. 1, p. 183 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In part one (0:00-7:35), Tim outlines the biblical authors' idea that God is totally transcendent and above creation, but they also work hard to show that God gets involved in human activities through mediators. Tim briefly mentions that there are a lot of old Hebrew traditions surrounding different beings like “the watchers.” These figures are often portrayed in movies like the new Noah movie by Darren Aronofsky. and much of the literature written about them comes from other Hebrew literature and tradition. In part two (7:35-17:25), Tim says that the Hebrew word “malak” means “messenger,” and it's the word used for “angel.” In the New Testament, the Greek word “aggelos” is used, which is then translated as “angel.” Jon asks if they have wings, and Tim says there is no winged angel depicted in the Bible. Tim says there’s a particular elohim/spiritual being depicted in the Bible that is called “malak Yahweh,” or “messenger of Yahweh.” One notable appearance of this character is in the story of Hagar in Genesis 21. The story starts out with Hagar conversing with the Angel of the Lord, but then later she says she had conversed with God (Yahweh). Jon asks if this is a sign of the literary seams of different sources as this story was told throughout the years. Tim says this is possible, but he also wonders if it’s intentional. Is the Angel of Yahweh Yahweh, or is it distinct from Yahweh? Tim thinks it's both. Tim mentions the story in Exodus 23. Yahweh says, “See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my name is in him.” Jon asks what it means to have Yahweh’s name in someone. Tim says this is a really unique phrase in the Bible. Tim thinks the point is that there’s a balance beam the biblical authors are walking. They want to present Yahweh as distinct from the Angel of God, but also they can be the same. In part three (17:25-26:55), Tim outlines the story of Gideon in Judges 6:11-23. "The Angel of the Lord came and sat down under the oak in Ophrah that belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, where his son Gideon was threshing wheat in a winepress to keep it from the Midianites. When the Angel of the Lord appeared to Gideon, he said, 'The Lord is with you, mighty warrior.' 'Pardon me, my lord,' Gideon replied, 'but if the Lord is with us, why has all this happened to us? Where are all his wonders that our ancestors told us about when they said, ‘Did not the Lord bring us up out of Egypt?’ But now the Lord has abandoned us and given us into the hand of Midian.' The Lord turned to him and said, 'Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian’s hand. Am I not sending you?' 'Pardon me, my lord,' Gideon replied, 'but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.' The Lord answered, 'I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.' Gideon replied, 'If now I have found favor in your eyes, give me a sign that it is really you talking to me. Please do not go away until I come back and bring my offering and set it before you.' And the Lord said, 'I will wait until you return.' Gideon went inside, prepared a young goat, and from an ephah of flour he made bread without yeast. Putting the meat in a basket and its broth in a pot, he brought them out and offered them to him under the oak. The Angel of God said to him, 'Take the meat and the unleavened bread, place them on this rock, and pour out the broth.' And Gideon did so. Then the Angel of the Lord touched the meat and the unleavened bread with the tip of the staff that was in his hand. Fire flared from the rock, consuming the meat and the bread. And the Angel of the Lord disappeared. When Gideon realized that it was the Angel of the Lord, he exclaimed, 'Alas, Sovereign Lord! I have seen the Angel of the Lord face to face!' But the Lord said to him, 'Peace! Do not be afraid. You are not going to die.'" In this story, the character keeps alternating between “the Lord” and “the Angel of the Lord.” Why is this? Is this just lazy writing, or is it a biblical contradiction? Tim says he thinks this is a strange story on purpose. Tim thinks that this is a human figure that can appear, a figure that is Yahweh but also distinct from Yahweh. The point of this story is to form a mental shelf in the reader's mind that there is a human figure, a messenger who acts as God and also on behalf of God. This figure has “my name in Him,” according to Exodus 23. In Part four (26:55-end), Tim outlines the history of the ideas surrounding this figure. Some traditions and scholars think that this figure is Michael, archangel or chief angel. Tim says there’s a book called “The Apocalypse of Abraham.” It's a second temple Jewish text that tries to give more background on this figure. In that text the figure is called “Ya-ho-el.” In other Jewish traditions, the Angel of the Lord is known as Metatron. The early church fathers believed that this being was a pre-incarnated Jesus. Tim says there are lots of ideas, and the biblical authors, especially the New Testament authors, consider Jesus to be “greater than an angel.” This theme is especially noticeable in the book of Hebrews. To a modern reader, the meaning slips past us, but to an ancient Jewish reader, saying that Jesus was “greater than an angel” or that he was the Angel of Yahweh was equivalent to saying that he was Yahweh. Thank you to all of our supporters! Show Music Defender Instrumental, Tents He’s Always There, Tae the Producer Another Chance, Tae the Producer In the Distance, Tae the Producer He’s Always There, Tae the Producer Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins. Show Resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metatron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_of_Abraham Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Celebrate the 100th podcast with live Q+A insights from the audience. Delve into the intriguing question of why God refers to Himself in the plural in Genesis. Explore the implications of the divine council on perceptions of the Trinity and the uniqueness of Jesus. The hosts engage with complex ideas like ‘elohim’ and its relationship to Jesus’ divinity, intertwining biblical justice themes with personal reflections on spirituality. Enjoy a special musical interlude as part of this vibrant community event!

Discover the captivating dynamics between God and Moses as they navigate Israel's rebellion with the golden calf. The discussion highlights the unusual role Moses played as a mediator and how his intercession potentially influenced God's intentions. Delve into the mystery of prayer, examining whether divine decisions are ever swayed by human pleas. The conversation also explores the significance of hope and the anticipation of a future mediator beyond Moses, all while uncovering profound themes of divine love and justice.

In part 1 (0-20:20), Tim shares a insight from biblical scholar Richard Baukham. Baukham outlines the differences between ancient Judiasm and other ancient religions of that time period. Specifically a “Binary view” vs. a “gradient view” of reality. A “gradient view” can be characterized as: polytheistic worldviews (like Israel’s ancient neighbors, and the Greek and Roman world) draw distinctions of degree between the most powerful divine being and other divine beings and humans. A “binary view” can be characterized, by looking at this quote from Richard Baukman “Monotheism understands the uniqueness of the one God in terms of an absolute difference in kind from all other reality. We could call it ‘transcendent uniqueness… understanding the uniqueness of the God of Israel as that of the one Creator of all things and the one sovereign Ruler of all things. In ancient Judaism, this binary distinction between their God and all other reality was observed and promoted by monolotry -- their worship and allegiance and prayers were offered only to the one God of Israel. In a gradient worldview, many beings are accorded honor, to the degree appropriate to their rank on the cosmic scale. Judaism turned their monolotry into a powerful symbol of exclusive monotheism.” -- Bauckham, Jesus and the God of Israel, 109. Why is this important? Because a binary view of reality eventually sets the stage for Israel’s belief that God can be both transcendent and personally knowable. And the biblical authors paint a picture of God who can be relatable to the world most often through a human mediator, but at the same time can be utterly unknowable. Tim says that these overarching thoughts set the stage for Christian beliefs like the incarnation and the trinity. In part 2 (20:20-25:20), Tim outlines “God’s complex relationship with the world”. When you pick up the Bible you first notice that God is portrayed as very relatable, with human like qualities. In Genesis, God is portrayed as walking around the garden. Other times, God’s attributes becomes personified, his wisdom, his justice etc all have stories where they act as a character. In part 3 (25:20-40:00), Tim outlines portrayals of God through humans. When Genesis starts, God self limits himself by willingly wanting to partner with humans who are made in his image and commissioned to rule the world on his behalf. What’s the problem with that? Humans rebel. But God continues to work through humans who he uses to accomplish his purposes. The first person that is a great example of this is Moses. When God calls Moses at the burning bush in Exodus 3, God says he will deliver Israel out of Egypt, but then he tells Moses to go do it. Tim says this is a good example, that most stories in the Bible show God acting through a person, or a mediator and its actually very rare to see God doing something without a mediator. In part 4 (40:00-end), Tim expands on this point by illustrating the biblical theme of “God’s outstretched arm”. Where does this image come from? Does God actually have an arm? Tim says this theme starts in the plagues in Egypt (Exodus 7). “Then Yahweh said to Moses… “Go to Pharaoh in the morning as he is going out to the water, stand on the bank and take in your hand the staff… and say “Thus says Yahweh the God of the Hebrews, ‘By this you will know that I am Yahweh, with the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile and it will turn to blood.’ Then Moses did as Yahweh commanded… he lifted up the staff and struck the water in the Nile. Tim says the point is Moses arm with the staff = Yahweh’s arm. Moses’ physical actions become merged with Yahweh’s actions. Moses is not God. Moses is an image of God. Jon says that this is really interesting because it seems that Moses is becoming conformed to the image of God, their seems to be a fusion of God and Moses. It makes Moses truly human and brings justice and life for the Israelite slaves in Egypt. Thank you to all our supporters! Show Resources: Richard Bauckham, Jesus and the God of Israel. Show Produced By: Dan Gummel. Jon Collins. Matthew Halbert Howen Show Music: He’s Always There - Tae the Producer Eden - Tae the Producer Another Chance - Tae the Producer Defender Instrumental - Rosasharn Music Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The discussion kicks off with the contentious Genesis 6 tale of the Nephilim, pondering their identity as divine beings versus human kings. Fascinating connections are drawn between biblical texts and ancient writings like 1 Enoch. Listeners explore the implications of God's sovereignty through the lens of an evil spirit tormenting Saul. Further, the hosts unpack the 72 disciples' experiences with demons, linking it to the fall of Satan. Throughout, themes of rebellion, authority, and the cosmic battle against evil weave a rich tapestry of insights.

In part one (00:00-14:00), the guys quickly go over the previous three episodes on God and identify one of the shortcomings of those discussions. Mainly, they never discuss the origin of the other Elohim/gods/ spiritual beings in the Bible. Where do they come from? Where and how are they created? Tim begins to outline an idea to explain the origin story of the other Elohim, and it starts where everything else starts in the Bible––Genesis 1. Tim explains that there is no wasted or careless word, phrase, or idea placed in the creation story. Tim zeroes in on the “lights” created in Genesis 1 in the heavens. On day four of creation, “the great light” and “the lesser light” are created. Tim’s point is that these lights have roles to play in creation; they are for “signs and symbols.” "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,' and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day." – Genesis 1:14-19 In part two (14:00-54:17), Tim continues to expand the analogy. His point is that in the ancient Hebrew worldview, the sun, moon, and stars were very central in their worldview. To the Hebrews, they were symbols of Yahweh’s love and rule. Tim explains how this is supported in passages like Psalm 36. "Your lovingkindness, O Lord, extends to the heavens, Your faithfulness reaches to the skies. Your righteousness is like the mountains of God; Your judgments are like a great deep. O Lord, You preserve man and beast. How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings. They drink their fill of the abundance of Your house; And You give them to drink of the river of Your delights. For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light." – Psalm 36:5-9 Tim says that verse 9 is important. The Hebrews believed that physical light (photons, electromagnetic, waves, etc) is a symbol, a representation of the creator behind it. Jon says he is struggling to understand this. Tim expands on the point by illustrating that in the new creation, John says, “the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.” – Revelation 21:23. Tim goes back to Genesis 1, saying that it’s important to understand that God is delegating authority to the “lights” (sun, moon, and stars) by giving them authority to rule in the heavens. Tim says only two things are given ruling ability in the creation story: humans on earth, who are God’s image to rule on the earth, and the lights in the heavens, that are God’s symbols to rule in the heavens. Jon remarks that he has never seen this idea in the creation story of Genesis before. Tim says that he thinks the biblical authors believed that the “lights in the heavens” were “spiritual beings,” so the other Elohim would have been created and given authority when God created the “lights in the heavens” in Genesis 1. Tim makes a distinction saying that whereas an ancient Canaanite or Egyptian would have worshiped the actual sun, moon, and stars and have heavy habits of astrology, the Hebrews would have insisted that the being to worship is the being behind it all, Yahweh. Tim makes an additional point that in Genesis 1, humans are the ultimate symbol of the divine, whereas the stars are symbols. Tim says this can be seen in Psalm 8. "Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory in the heavens. Through the praise of children and infants you have established a stronghold against your enemies, to silence the foe and the avenger. When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them? You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. You made them rulers over the works of your hands; you put everything under their feet: all flocks and herds, and the animals of the wild, the birds in the sky, and the fish in the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!" – Psalm 8:1-9 Tim offers Genesis 6 as a recount of the spiritual rebellion where the “sons of god” rebel by taking human women. In Psalm 82, God confronts the Divine Council. "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: 'How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.' They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.' Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!" – Psalm 82:1-8 Tim says this is a key passage to understand that God/Yahweh is talking to the spirit realm here, to the other Elohim. God promises that he will render his judgement on them. At 54:15, the guys transition to a mini Q+R. Here are the questions and timestamps: Q1. (54:47) Cole from North Carolina: “My question is in regard to episode 2 of the God podcast where you discuss the idea of "other Elohim," and so my question is kind of two-part. 1. Are the other Elohim timeless and uncreated like God? 2. And if they aren't, does that mean that God created these inferior Elohim to oppose him?” Q2. (57:33) Brandon: “When God says, 'Let us make man in our own image and our own likeness,' who's the us' he's referring to in Genesis 1?” Q3. (59:25) Ivan from El Salvador: “I have a question about the deity of Christ. Tim spoke in the podcast that Christ said (that Jesus said) that he was God in a very Jewish way, and in John 8 when he said to the pharisees that before Abraham "I AM." I just have one question. I was looking at your video about the word LORD in the Shema, and he says that the word was "Ech Yeh," and I want to know if Jesus said that before Abraham, "Ech Yeh" that means that only God can say that. I've been thinking about this question. I know that it was written in Greek, but Tim said that even though it's in Greek, think in Hebrew and think in Aramaic. So when Jesus said "Ech Yeh," did everyone just freak out?! Or did we lose something in translation? What do we think that Jesus said?” Q4. (1:01:50) John from Colorado Springs: “When you discussed Saul and the medium, you used her explanation of calling Samuel's spirit an Elohim as evidence that Samuel's spirit was in the same class as the rest of the gods. I've always read that as her being more surprised at seeing a spirit come to her. I'd always assumed that the author was telling us what she said, not agreeing with her declaration. Is there evidence in the text that I'm missing suggesting the fact that Samuel's spirit was indeed an Elohim and not just a case of mistaken identity by the medium? And if Samuel's spirit is in fact in the Elohim class, wouldn't that imply that there's no difference in between humans and the rest of the Elohim in the spiritual world, since we would all have some of the same Elohim within us?” Q5. (1:05:12) Matt from Kansas City: “You mentioned that you do not think there is a way to put the Old Testament Divine Council vignettes into a coherent narrative, but as I was listening to your podcasts, one of your explanations sounded to me like a clear and coherent narrative. Elohim rebelled before the fall of man, and later God gave man over to his rebellion by appointing over them (Deut. 32) the Elohim that they desired. This is also consistent with the point that Paul makes in Romans 1. What do you see as the shortcomings of the harmonization?” Thank you to all of our supporters! Have a question? Record it and send it to info@jointhebibleproject.com. Next week, Tim and Jon will respond to questions in a full Q+R. There are other Q+Rs scheduled for the future as well. Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Rosasharn Music Show Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins, Matthew Halbert-Howen Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.