Mormon Discussion Podcast

To the Orthodox Believer who still holds belief that Doctrine in our faith equals Truth.  Or the idea that when the prophet speaks or when all 15 top leaders are unified that we have certainty that God has spoken.   It may not be that simple.  Lets explore. I validate that Doctrine in the Church as a word has been unanimously used by our culture and even officially within our Church to mean absolute truth from God.  When we speak of the Doctrines of the Church we speak of the most serious guiding principles of our faith. The Church defines “Doctrine” in this way. Doctrine is the word of God as found in the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets and apostles. This seems simple enough but let’s explore the many ways Doctrine comes to us. 1.) Canonized Scripture Scripture is defined by the Church as Words, both written and spoken, by holy men of God when moved upon by the Holy Ghost. To go one step further canonized scripture is defined by the Church this way The authoritative collection of the sacred books used by the true believers in Christ. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the canonical books are called standard works. Many Latter-day Saints assume that all “canonized” Scripture is “The Word of God”.  Take a listen though to Brigham Young and how he defined scripture. I have heard some make the broad assertion that every word within the lids of the Bible was the word of God. I have said to them, “You have never read the Bible, have you?” “O, yes, and I believe every word in it is the word of God.” Well, I believe that the Bible contains the word of God, and the words of good men and the words of bad men; the words of good angels and the words of bad angels and words of the devil; and also the words uttered by the ass when he rebuked the prophet in his madness. I believe the words of the Bible are just what they are; but aside from that I believe the doctrines concerning salvation contained in that book are true, and that their observance will elevate any people, nation or family that dwells on the face of the earth. The doctrines contained in the Bible will lift to a superior condition all who observe them; they will impart to them knowledge, wisdom, charity, fill them with compassion and cause them to feel after the wants of those who are in distress, or in painful or degraded circumstances. Journal of Discourses 13:175 (May 29, 1870) Brigham seemed to hold a very nuanced view of canon and scripture.  That in essence found within it is the “word” of God but that the words are not necessarily the “words” of God.  That not all the ideas, stories, and wording can be described as the “mind and will of God”. Joseph Smith seemed to hit on this as well for example when he suggested that the Song of Solomon were not inspired writings.  Yet consider this….  The Song of Solomon is canonized scripture.  That is not debated.  It is part of our canon and has been accepted by the saints as such.  In essence one is not debating whether it is scripture but rather whether it contains the word of God.  It should also be added as a paradox that While Joseph taught that the “Song of Solomon is not inspired writing Joseph also used wording from the Song of Solomon three times within his revelations In light of this we could go further in recognizing that from member to member in our faith there will be differences in whether one takes certain stories as literal, figurative, allegorical, or simply as the words of men.  Even Leaders have disagreed on such concepts.  Take for instance these quotes from several leaders suggesting many aspects of the Creation, Garden, and Fall are likely figurative. 2.) The Prophet While we believe that the Prophets can communicate with God, the question is how to recognize when that is happening and what our expectations should be of how often this happens. Many Latter-day Saints suggest that when The Prophet declares information was received from God it can be trusted to be such. Except consider the following examples Brigham young taught several ideas as God revealed Doctrine that we now disavow as false.  One of these was regarding Adam, the first mortal, as actually being Elohim or Heavenly Father. Brigham taught this repeatedly and in official venues such as General Conference as can be seen by the following quotes HERE  and   HERE   and   HERE.  In terms of where he got the idea is debated but the key is Brigham declared publicly to the saints that it had come from God by revelation.  For example the following quote. “How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me – namely that Adam is our father and God – I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. – Prophet Brigham Young, Deseret News, v. 22, no. 308, June 8, 1873 President Young didn’t care how many members disagreed because he felt secure that this “Doctrine” had come from God. The trouble is that President Kimball runs counter to President Youngs teaching when he stated the following. We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the Scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine. – Spencer W. Kimball, “Our Own Liahona,” Ensign (November 1976) There are several instances of this occurring on one scale or another but suffice it to say that even when Prophets claim to have received “Doctrine” from God, it is not always the case.  It may be helpful to keep in mind that Joseph Smith said “A Prophet is only a Prophet when acting as such”. Elder Christofferson clarified this point when he said At the same time it should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such. But it should also be noted that when multiple leaders state on multiple occasions some teaching we still have instances of said teaching being incorrect. 3.) When all 15 top leaders are unified This goes one step further than #2 and essentially is based on the premise that while the Prophet might declare and institute false doctrine, that when all 15 top men are unified on a matter, it can be trusted to be the word of God.  this seems to be reinforced by Elder Neil L. Anderson when he said the following. A few question their faith when they find a statement made by a Church leader decades ago that seems incongruent with our doctrine. There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find. But this concept also is problematic. Consider the following example.  Starting with Brigham Young, people with black skin were banned from Priesthood and the ordinances of the temple.  Our leaders officially pronounced theories surrounding this policy. For example Mark E Peterson taught. ” If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection. He will get a place in the celestial glory.” But among these teachings were some that were very official.  These included that people with black skin had the “Curse of Cain”, that they were less valiant in the pre-mortal life, and that inter-racial marriage is sin.  In the 1940 we have two documented instances where the Church states that such teachings are “official” Doctrines of the the faith.  The first is a written correspondence between a Dr. Lowry Nelson and the First Presidency where George Albert Smith and his counselors declare to Dr. Nelson the following this is contrary to the very fundamentals of God’s dealings with Israel dating from the time of His promise to Abraham regarding Abraham’s seed and their position vis-a-vis God Himself. Indeed, some of God’s children were assigned to superior positions before the world was formed.” – (First Presidency letter to Lowry Nelson, 17 July 1947) “Your position seems to lose sight of the revelations of the Lord touching the preexistence of our spirits, the rebellion in heaven, and the doctrines that our birth into this life and the advantages under which we my be born, have a relationship in the life heretofore.” – (First Presidency letter to Lowry Nelson, 17 July 1947) “From the days of the Prophet Joseph even until now, it has been the doctrine of the Church, never questioned by any of the Church leaders, that the Negroes are not entitled to the full blessings of the Gospel.” – (First Presidency letter to Lowry Nelson, 17 July 1947) Furthermore, your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now. God’s rule for Israel, His Chosen People, has been endogamous” – (First Presidency letter to Lowry Nelson, 17 July 1947) “We are not unmindful of the fact that there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.” – (First Presidency letter to Lowry Nelson, 17 July 1947) We also have a 1949 First Presidency letter which states The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes. As we can see, to have the top 15 men, all prophets, seers, and revelators, united on some teaching or belief does not necessarily make it truth or “True Doctrine”.  Hopefully you will see that it is messy and that arriving at truth simply by believing another person or group of people regardless of their authority has the risk of being wrong. This leads to another point.  We often in our manuals, lessons, and talks repeat a teaching that originated with Wilford Woodruff and Heber J Grant.  The quote is as follows. “I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God.” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13.) This quote is problematic.  If we take it to mean that the Prophet will never teach “False Doctrine” and never lead many of the saints to believe and implement said false teachings into their lives, we have already shown above that such occurs.  So what can it mean to lead astray?  This is a tough question that must be approached carefully.  One thought would be that while the prophet may err and may lead the Church down a false path on various ideas, that he can never be permitted to corrupt the saving ordinances and cause the Priesthood to retreat back into the “wilderness”.  Regardless of how one reframes such an interpretation we must step outside of the cultural interpretations we have used to frame such things.   Even Elder Bruce R McConkie admits that the Lord permits the Prophet to introduce and to disseminate false doctrine throughout the Church when he said Nonetheless, as Joseph Smith so pointedly taught, a prophet is not always a prophet, only when he is acting as such. Prophets are men and they make mistakes. Sometimes they err in doctrine…. Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits, and all the related things that the cultists ascribe to him. This, however, is not true. He expressed views that are out of harmony with the gospel….. I do not know all of the providences of the Lord, but I do know that he permits false doctrine to be taught in and out of the Church and that such teaching is part of the sifting process of mortality…. Another oft used quote is from Marion G Romney in general Conference repeating a story from his youth “I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Heber J. Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home … Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’” (Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78.) since we already have covered the complexity of “being lead astray” the issue here is whether one will be blessed for following the prophet even if one feels he is wrong.  The quote could be interpreted to mean follow the Prophet and the Church generally, even if one dissents and does not follow a specific issue.  I personally can hold that space and it still leaves the statement to be true in a much more nuanced way.  In asking the question of whether we should follow a leader on specific instances we feel them to be wrong we should consider the following quotes. “Standard Works judge teachings of all men.  It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them.  Let us have this matter clear. we have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man’s doctrine.  You cannot accept the books written by the authorities of the church as standards in doctrine, only in so far as they accord with the revealed word in the standard works.  every man who writes is responsible, not the church, for what he writes. If Joseph Fielding Smith writes something which is out of harmony with the revelations, then every member of the church is duty bound to reject it.  If he writes that which is in perfect harmony with the revealed word of the lord, then it should be accepted.  –  Joseph Fielding Smith Mormon Church’s president, Spencer W. Kimball stated when referring to the quote about following even when wrong that he was concerned and that it possibly would lead to “an unthinking ‘follow the leader’ mentality” Consider this quote in the Church’s official Periodical which seems to teach the exact opposite of the quote being discussed. “The questions is sometimes asked, to what extent is obedience to those who hold the Priesthood required? This is a very important question, and one which should be understood by all Saints. In attempting to answer this question, we would repeat, in short, what we have already written, that willing obedience to the laws of God, administered by the priesthood, is indispensable to salvation; but we would further add, that a proper conservative to this power exists for the benefit of all, and none are required to tamely or blindly submit to a man because he has a portion of the Priesthood. We have heard men who hold the Priesthood remark, that they would do anything they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong: but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should ot claima rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly” – 13 Nov 1852 Milennial Star I finish this article with the Lord’s own words found in D&C in the very first section.  The Lord seems to be setting the tone for what to expect from our leaders and to permit them room to be very flawed at times. D&C 1: 17-28 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments; And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world; and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets— The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh— But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world; That faith also might increase in the earth; That mine everlasting covenant might be established; That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers. Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding. And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known; And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed; And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent; And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time. God seems to be saying that our leaders are human just like you and me.  they are weak, they will error, and they will sin, they will at times teach us false doctrines.  But as we all move forward in faith we as a Church might from them receive the word of God every once in a while or from time to time.         The post 226: Nuanced Approach to Doctrine appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

For the Orthodox Believer who holds that everyone needs to join Mormonism in order to be be exalted by God, It is not that simple.  Let’s explore. We often refer to our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as “The Only True and Living Church with Which the Lord is Well Pleased” We also speak at great Length about being the only place God has Authorized its children to “hold” Priesthood and to administer saving ordinances.  Below are some ways God has given us to see these things. 1.) Church – And how God defines that word. D&C 10 has God saying several things – one of which is Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven. There is this idea that no matter what God promises, whosoever is in his Church shall inherit his kingdom or exaltation….. hmmm.  Do we currently believe all members of the Earthly institution called “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will inherit God’s kingdom?  Is there another way that God defines Church that we are missing?  Consider just a few verses later God says Behold, this is my doctrine, whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church. Now consider that.  Also consider that this revelation was given before out Church was organized in 1830, before there even was a earthly institution.  God seems to be defining Church another way…. That in essence who ever is making positive changes in their life and pressing forward towards a more Christlike life is of his Church. 2.) That God wishes for us, as member missionaries, to convert all nonmembers to his earthly organized Church in order to save them and bring them into his plan and set them on the path. Otherwise what is all this Missionary work about right? Except that members of the Church only make up “point two percent” of the current world population.  And this doesn’t even take into account that 65% of that “point two percent” that are inactive members.  Or that when one considers all who have lived, are living, and will live versus all the members of the Church there has been makes the number even exponentially smaller than that.  If one need be Mormon the plan is actually very ineffective at the surface.  I know what your thinking…. Yeah but we do work for the dead and so we provide a way for all those folks.  I hear you and I validate that.  But I am asking a different sort of question that progressive Mormons like myself dare to ask.  Does being a member of the LDS faith in mortality increase my chance of receiving exaltation?  Think about that.  Are my non member friends and family at a spiritual disadvantage because they are not in the Church?  As you let that question just sit there lets see a quote from Elder Orson F. Whitney regarding non-members. Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of his Church, to help it along. They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. Consider that.  That God may consider non-members as auxiliary members of his Church.  That they do more good for administering his plan outside the Church than in.  He continues Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the Truth; while others remain unconverted—for the present; the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in his own due time. That their not being placed into the Church is for a Wise Purpose of God’s and that he will in his own due time open their eyes to the fullness of the gospel.  This brings in another point. 3.) The Church is his official organization that is called to carry out his plan right?  This is where those who are called and authorized to do his work are found correct? Elder Orson F Whitney also said God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of his great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous, for any one people. Consider that.  God is not just using our Church to carry out his work.  What is his work? For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. This work is to vast, too arduous.  why?  The only explanation is that God is working to bring every single child of his home and The earthly institution is too small and too ineffective to accomplish it on its own.  But hasn’t God already told us that? The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. In this way are not inspired men like Mohammed and Confucius “Called” and “Authorized” to carry out God’s work. Don’t we already in our faith make the assertion that men like the reformers such as Luther, Tyndale, Wesley and others were called and authorized by God to carry out parts of his plan?  Don’t we already assert that Christopher Columbus and the George Washington and a whole host of others were “called” and “authorized” by God to carry out parts of his plan? Elder Whitney finished by saying Again I say, the Lord’s Work has need of auxiliaries outside as well as inside, to help it along. And I argue he is absolutely right. So why can’t a Latter-day Saint hold the belief that Pope Francis, the Catholic leader, is “called” and “Authorized” by God to be assisting this work?   And Once we come to grips that Mormon theology permits individuals who are “called” and Authorized” and “inspired” to be moving God’s work forward we are left with a very inclusive, expansive view of Mormonism. 4.) But we as members of the Church have the Priesthood and the Saving ordinances by which all must enter, right? Yes and No.  We have the only earthly institution in this dispensation that has “offices” within the priesthood.  But are we the only people using Priesthood on the earth?  Elder Oaks already has acknowledged that our sisters have “Priesthood Power” and “Priesthood Authority” when he stated. We are not accustomed to speaking of women having the authority of the priesthood in their Church callings, but what other authority can it be? that the Relief Society “[has] been given power and authority to do a great many things. The work which they do is done by divine authority.”… Thus, it is truly said that Relief Society is not just a class for women but something they belong to—a divinely established appendage to the priesthood. Isn’t that what Priesthood is?  The POWER and AUTHORITY of God given to his children to carry out his work. We have already discussed how many outside the Church were “Authorized” by God to carry out parts of his plan.  In other words we have already acknowledged the Church teaches these mean had “Authority” from God.  Now the Question is if they operated under God’s power.  Take Christopher Columbus for example.  Here is what Nephi says about him And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land. And then consider what our faith teaches about how Columbus felt  The Lord was well disposed to my desire, and He bestowed upon me courage and understanding; knowledge of seafaring He gave me in abundance. …Our Lord unlocked my mind, sent me upon the sea, and gave me fire for the deed. Those who heard of my [enterprise] called it foolish, mocked me, and laughed. But who can doubt but that the Holy Ghost inspired me? Was he not operating with God’s power?  We can ask the same about others.  When God blesses those in other faiths to be healed in their acts of faith, for example a Catholic Guatemalan Mother Praying for her sick child calling down the powers of Heaven…. is that not Priesthood Power?  When Martin Luther and John Wesley and William Tyndale worked to reform their faith and make room for the restoration were they not in effect operating under Priesthood Power to do what they did? So yes, we as an organization have been blessed to be delegated by God to be guardians and administrators of the sacred and saving ordinances and have been blessed with offices within the Priesthood to administer those ordinances but consider this.  Every person who has taken on a mortal tabernacle on this earth receives those ordinances and every male receives a priesthood office.  Think about that every ordinance required will be given to every single son and daughter of God.  And While Priesthood offices to males seem exclusive to males in the Church, every male who has ever lived will receive a priesthood office.   Baptism may be the gate but all who have ever and will ever live pass through that gate.  When one ponders on the straight and narrow path I am left wondering if that path began in the premortal life.  That the only way we can step off the path for a time or forever is to stop trying and to personally choose to move away from God.  That as long as we are facing him and willing to be better and trying to be better that we, as in all of God’s children, are on the path. I hope as you ponder these thoughts you will see that God is working to bring all of his children home.  His gospel is not exclusionary.  Rather it is inclusive.  He is working both within the Church but also through many other people, organizations, and faiths to influence his children and to encourage them onward.  That God has provided a way for all of his children to come home.  God is working directly in the lives, of not .2% of his children, but 100% of his children equally manifesting his Power, Inspiration, Encouragement, Mercy, and Grace. Lastly may I revisit the question asked at the beginning.  If my chance at salvation is not increased by being a member of the Church in mortality then why the push to join and to remain in the Church?  I simply look at this questions from the perspective of a loving Father.  In the lives of my children, I want them to be happy, I want them to be supported by others.  I want them to be challenged and have opportunities to grow.  I also want, when those challenges get to difficult, for them to have others around them who care for them and think of them as brothers and sisters and who they can depend on to strengthen their feeble knees and Lift their hands when they are hanging down.  I can think of no organization on earth that does this as a whole better than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  For that reason I am honored to stand with the Saints and to serve them and be served.  I am honored to be a Mormon and ride out this mortal journey within this Church. The post 225: A Nuanced View of The Church and God’s Plan appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today I talk a little about Eastern Philosophy and discussion of the Eastern Principle of “The Way”.  We Americanize Jesus and we Mormonize Jesus but we fail to Easternize him and understand him in the context of his culture.  When we do this we better understand what he is asking of us and why a flawed church is necessary.  Today I talk to those who have stepped away from the Church or are considering doing so.  I validate your pain, your tension, your frustration, and your disillusion but simply want to push back a little and ask if this is part of the “Narrow Path” that so few find. The post 224: Stepping off the Narrow Way appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Included here is the PDF Transcript of my July 2016 Sunstone Presentation: Handshakes and Drawn Swords.  The audio may be added at a future point.   PDF of the Presentation The post Sunstone Presentation July 2016: Handshakes & Drawn Swords appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today I sit down and explain why I maintain faith in Jesus Christ.  I share my grapple with the historical Jesus and why logically and spiritually I throw in with Jesus.  I hope this is helpful in your journey to lead with faith. youtube.com/watch?v=QeY8lndPsdE The post 223: Throwing In With Jesus appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today I sit down with Mormon Philosopher Adam Miller.  It’s his third time on the program and we talk about his newest book “Future Mormon”.  We talk about various aspects of the book which he wrote to his children and to future members of the Church.  What will the future of Mormonism look like?  Time will tell but till then we can hope in the next generation of Mormons’ ability to rise above the flaws of the present and carry us to a better Mormonism. You can purchase the two books mentioned in the podcast here: Future Mormon Nothing New Under The Sun The post 222: Adam Miller Future Mormon appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

  I sit down with Chris and Clay again and this time we are dissecting the First Vision and all that surrounds it.  We talk about the four First Hand accounts and their discrepancies as well as similarities.  We explore the historical context of each account, who the audience is, what factors into why Joseph perhaps shapes each account the way he does.  We talk about the valid reasons to see contradictions and why some lose faith but we also “lead with faith” showing that their are valid and serious ways to tackle this issue that actually build faith in Joseph and in the sincerity of his “First Vision”.   https://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts?lang=eng http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/history-circa-summer-1832#!/paperSummary/history-circa-summer-1832&p=1 http://www.mormonismi.net/pdf/significance_1stvision_allen.pdf http://www.jamesjudithmcconkie.com/uploads/sites/2/3/8/0/8/38081735/dialogue_larson_another_look_at_joseph_smith’s_first_vision_(2).pdf http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2012/02/The_First_Vision.pdf http://889af4bde363a9603c4b-678500d623ddb25493e7806da7642fe7.r43.cf2.rackcdn.com/Hodges-%20Joseph%20Smith’s%20First%20Vision%20Accounts.pdf http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_first_vision.shtml http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/FirstVision-RelTolerance.pdf https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/064-22-29.pdf https://beggarsbread.org/2013/04/01/a-documented-history-of-joseph-smiths-first-vision/ https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/approaching-the-first-vision-saga/ The post 221: First Vision – The Founding Event Of The Restoration appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today I sit down with Patrick Mason, LDS scholar and author of the new book “Planted”.  We talk about doubt, the struggle that a faith transition is.  We talk about the messiness of issues and what is needed for us to better support our struggling brothers and sisters.  Patrick takes on all questions and pulls no punches.  This is as honest and authentic as anyone I have had on the podcast.  If you do nothing else, purchase planted and read chapter 1 and give it to those whose support you need.   From the first Chapter he deals empathetically and honestly with both the doubter and the person who loves and supports them.  What an amazing interview….. I hope you like it.   Purchase the Book Purchase the book ‘Planted’   Info on Patrick Mason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Q._Mason http://www.cgu.edu/pages/9241.asp http://claremontmormonstudies.org/chair/   Resources http://religionnews.com/2016/01/15/staying-mormon-planted-with-patrick-mason/ Planted: An Interview with Patrick Mason https://www.ldsliving.com/Surviving-a-Faith-Crisis-with-the-Help-of-Church-Members/s/80563 http://mi.byu.edu/planted-now-available/   The post 220: Patrick Mason – Planted appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

Today I sit down with LDS Author Gerald Smith.  He has written the book “Schooling The Prophet”.   Often among scholars is the discussion of just how little Joseph uses The Book of Mormon in his sermons, his theology, and in the restoration movement generally.  Jerry helps us see that the Book of Mormon played a much larger role than generally thought.  He helps us see that within our Doctrine, Rituals, Priesthood, and in our theology there is evidence that the Book of Mormon played an important role. The post 219: Jerry Smith – Schooling Joseph appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

This is the audio from a Gospel Essentials Class I taught on “Prophets”.  This lesson gives some insight into how to approach a nuanced lesson in a faithful way that also hits on the reality of the messiness of such topics. I hope you enjoy. It should be noted in my ward the Gospel Essentials class does not have investigators or recent converts.  If the class had those I would have approached the lesson much more basic. The post 218: Nuanced Lesson on Prophets appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.