Highlights:“Good leaders are not afraid to be long” [2:00] Marcel reminds listeners that confident, strong leaders are less concerned with being right and more so with getting to the right answer.“Confident leaders are unassuming, they already know what they think; they want to know what you think.” [3:55] Listening more than speaking is a hallmark of a good leader. Marcel says leaders with the loyal following are curious and ask questions because they seek to know more.“They avoid the spotlight, and they shine it on others.” [4:50] This is the third thing that Marcel shares that good leaders do day in and day out; they acknowledge, celebrate, and boost the confidence of others!“A truly confident and humble leader stays away from gossip, or the need to speak badly of others to make themselves appear better by comparison.” [5:30] Marcel explains why you won’t find good leaders putting others down. These leaders are most concerned with being a better person tomorrow than they were the day before. Mentioned in this episode:Marcel Schwantes | Professional Profile | LinkedInMarcel SchwantesSend Marcel a text message!

Donato J. Tramuto is a global health activist and founder of the Tramuto Foundation and Health eVillages. He is the author of The Double Bottom Line: How compassionate leaders captivate hearts and deliver results.Highlights:“Compassionate leadership is empathy in action.” [11:28] Donato J. Tramuto gets started by breaking down the definition of compassion. It’s no longer enough to just say ‘I feel your pain’, you have to put something into action. “When you lack empathy, you lose your ability to adapt your approach because you can’t see further than your own point of you.” [12:13] Donato points out the problems created by not using empathy in leadership and in your everyday perspective.“84% of the workers surveyed believed that a compassionate workplace encourages cooperation, which leads to greater productivity and profitability.” [14:50] Marcel gets into the research with Donato. Why is compassionate leadership important and it is really making an impact in the workplace?“The double bottom line says it doesn’t have to be an OR it should be an AND. You can be profitable AND you can insert a soul into the company.” [17:00] What does the title of Donato’s book actually mean? Anyone in business knows the bottom line, but Donato uses this common phrase to infuse profit AND compassion. “Start off with Tenderness…then you can be tenacious. Too many leaders start off with tenacity and then they have to pick up the mess and they’ve lost the trust.” [18:10] This is the concept of the “Three T’s”, Donato’s model for embedding compassion into management while building trust but being firm.“One of the components of compassionate leadership is your willingness to be vulnerable and your willingness to self-reflect every day.” [23:00] We have got to walk the talk and lead by example. Donato believes when we hurt people it is unintentional, but how are you reflecting on that and making it right?“We have to listen to understand, not listen to react.” [26:45] Donato rebuts the “Great Resignation” as a time of “Great Reflection”. People want to be heard and they want more than just a paycheck, they want community. Leaders need to listen to understand these employees.“We have got to get back to leading with the heart. Leading with passion. Leading by caring for your employees.” [29:55] What are these key components of compassionate leadership? Donato encourages leaders to put authenticity and vulnerability into how they lead because employees do not leave their values at the door when they begin their workday.  “When you create a diverse workforce, you are sending the message that you care about the notion that we are going to live by example to embrace everyone.” [32:00] Donato confirms for Marcel that Compassion = Diversity. A compassionate workplace begins with an intentionally diverse and supported workforce. Resources:Donato Tramuto  Send Marcel a text message!

Julie is the co-author of the international bestseller, Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go, translated into seven languages, and Promotions Are So Yesterday: Redefine Career Development. Help Employees Thrive. She leads DesignArounds, a firm that creates and offers training to organizations worldwide.Highlights:“My story has this through line of learning and development…that throughline is helping people to grow.” [10:25] Julie Giulioni shares her story and her passion for working with people on growth and development, both in the workplace and outside of work.“It really does feel like Promotions Are So Yesterday, is the sequel [to my previous book] because as you know, Help the Grow really focused on the conversation, ‘how can we disarm this whole thing called career development?’.” [12:50] Before diving into her new book, Julie reiterates the message behind her first book and what that means to her research. “The climb is listed as well as your other 7 discoveries for these new alternative ways people want to grow and develop.” [17:35] Marcel and Julie touch on the 7 dimensions of development in the book: Contribution, Competence, Confidence, Connection, Challenge, Contentment, and Choice.“We found that contribution across ages, genders, levels - that was number one.” [23:30] Julie discusses the really positive meaning behind the number one dimension, Contribution, as a top need for people in the workplace. A surprising yet comforting bottom dimension? The climb of the corporate ladder. “This whole conversation around choice is really alive for a lot of employees, managers, and organizations, alike, as we try to figure out where does that decision-making lie.” [30:55] Julie explains how the ranking around choice fluctuates and has changed heavily based on COVID related shifts in the workplace.“A facilitative mindset acknowledges there is wisdom, there are insights, there are brilliant ideas inside each person just waiting to find expression” [35:25] Julie outlines how leaders can act as a facilitator by asking great questions and at the same time cultivating a silence for a safe playing field for employees to share their contributions.“With people being so busy these days, adding one more thing, to their list, to their brains….it’s gotta be really high value” [44:20] Intrinsic motivation and desire is key for employees and adding to their competence. Julie stresses that leaders and employers putting together plans need to be real in consideration of what is truly possible.“The work becomes the development, the development becomes the work.” [47:14] Marcel sums up the movement in which employees are shaping their work and the way leaders can seamlessly embed this intention of learning in any job.Resources:Julie Winkle GiulioniAssessment - Julie Winkle GiulioniJulie Winkle Giulioni, Author - Home | FacebookJulie Winkle Giulioni - LinkedInSend Marcel a text message!

Dorie Clark is a consultant and keynote speaker who teaches executive education at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and Columbia University's Graduate School of Business. She has been named one of the top fifty business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50 and the #1 Communication Coach in the world by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards. Clark is a frequent contributor to Harvard Business Review and is the author of Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You, and Stand Out. Her books have been translated into eleven languages. Highlights:“Really what I focus my work on is helping people and helping companies, figure out in the very crowded marketplace, how they can get their best ideas heard.” [7:20] Dorie Clark introduces the inspiration behind her work and her book, The Long Game.“During COVID, it’s almost like forget the long term game, everybody’s all of a sudden in reactionary mode. How do we pivot!?” [10:05] Marcel comments on the broad shift in short term versus long term thinking due to COVID-19 and changes necessary from the pandemic shutdown.“We’re forced into doing long term thinking, if there are specific goals we want to attain.” [14:10] Why is long term thinking so hard? Dorie shares a quote she included in her book as she explains the motivation and pain points surrounding long term thinking. “Why is it that we can’t stop this relentless, short term, crazy busy, ‘FOMO’. ‘I can’t measure myself up to the standards of these celebrities’ that causes a lot of anxiety for me, and unrealistic expectations. We just get busier, and busier, and busier. So how do we stop this pursuit?” [16:00] Marcel questions why we as a culture feel the need to be unrealistically busy.“I threw myself into work, as a way of just distracting myself. The way that I think about it is like how they put patients into a medically induced coma so that their body can heal, because if they were awake they just couldn’t take it. So work can be like your medically induced coma.” [21:12] Dorie shares a personal experience in her reasoning for throwing herself into work and staying busy. Making the comparison to overworking as a “medically induced coma”.“All the forces are going to be mitigating against it. Because it's always more convenient for other people if you say yes to them. So nobody is going to help you with this.” [23:48] It’s easy and sometimes the right thing to say yes often when you’re early on in your career. But Dorie stresses that at a pivotal point in your business you have to start farming the things that are already working and no longer hoping that every small opportunity might turn into something. “So one of the ways that we can really focus on the long term, is having a clear, defining...North Star.” [26:51] Marcel asks Dorie to elaborate on what it means to find your North Star, the idea of reinventing yourself or instead remaining stagnant.“The strength that we have as professionals, and the thing that actually makes us valuable, is understanding that different things, different skills, are called for at different times. And you have to be smart enough to understand when and how to apply those skills. ”[31:20] Dorie explains the 4 career waves in her book: Learning, Creating, Connecting and Reaping.Resources:Download the free Long Game Strategic Thinking Self-AssessmentDorie Clark Dorie Clark - Top 50 Business Thinker in the World - Thinkers50 | LinkedInSend Marcel a text message!

Guest Bio:Christine Porath is a tenured professor at Georgetown University’s McDonough School of Business. She’s the author of Mastering Civility and co-author of The Cost of Bad Behavior. She is also a consultant working with leading organizations to help people and communities thrive. Her speaking and consulting clients include Google, United Nations, World Bank, Microsoft, Genentech, Marriott, 3M, Verizon, Ford, World Health Organization, and Cleveland Clinic.Highlights“What are the costs of these small interactions between people, that can make them feel disrespected or small?” [6:44] Christine Porath asks the big question that makes up research on the need for community in the workplace.“I stepped out of the shower and my back went out...I could not move, and it ended up being that the stress was exacerbated by toxic management. This fear based, intense pressure cooker that put unrealistic expectations on me.” [7:29] Marcel shares a story from his personal past and how toxic management caused physical injury due to stress. “We looked at witnesses, and it was taking them off track just as much. Their performance was declining by about 33%.” [16:42] When discussing the consequences in her research, Christine shares some statistics on productivity all the way down to the witnesses of negative interactions beyond those directly involved.“Nearly 50% said because they would be at a disadvantage if they were civil or respectful at work. They thought they would be less leader like.” [18:14] Christine shares some interesting insights on the reason behind rude or negative behavior in the workplace. “I’m really curious, on what you saw as maybe one or two of the worst examples of incivility in the research.” [20:46] Marcel, intrigued by Christine's research in negative behavior in the workplace, lines up space for Christine to share some examples involving public belittling of employees during meetings.“74% of people are actually more engaged, 81% are more likely to stay with the company…83% reported higher thriving at work and a sense of being more energized, alive, and growing.” [24:14] Marcel lists some eye-opening stats on the positive impact of a strong community at work. Christine comments on the difference it would make for employees to prioritize working in an environment with a sense of community.“Everyday they would meet in this film room, and it wouldn’t be about the X’s and O’s, the strategies, the game. It was this idea of sharing information, and being vulnerable, and talking about things that mattered.”[31:10] Christine explains an example of Uniting People, with a story of coach Phil Jackson and the Chicago Bulls. “It’s these moments, that if you're mindful which is hard these days, can really make a difference to people.” [38:49] Christine talks about the impact of small moments in acknowledging and respecting people, like with her story of Empathy at Cleveland Clinic.“Given how important culture is whether you’re PTA, or a school, or a local organization, we should prioritize culture and think about how do we continue to strive to get better?” [43:01] Sharing about Boosting Wellness, Christine gives examples of small but impactful ways to improve culture in the workplace.“There’s community in so many ways, but people don’t think about community in a work sense.” [49:00] Closing out today’s episode, Marcel connects community as an important extension of love in the workplace. Resources:Christine PorathChristine Porath (@PorathC) / TwitterChristine Porath - Professor of Management - Georgetown University | LinkedIn Mastering Community: The Surprising Ways Coming Together Moves Us from Surviving to ThrivingSend Marcel a text message!

The authors of Connectable, Ryan Jenkins, CSP, and Steven Van Cohen, MSOD, are founders of LessLonely.com, the world’s #1 resource for addressing workplace loneliness and creating more belonging at work. Collectively they have over 20 years of experience helping organizations like FedEx, Coca-Cola, The Home Depot, Salesforce, Wells Fargo, State Farm, John Deere, and Delta Air Lines improve their teams. Their work has been featured in Fast Company, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, SUCCESS, Inc., and Entrepreneur Magazine. When they are not writing and speaking, you can find them sampling craft beers, attempting to play golf together, and spending quality time with their respective families. Stay connected with them on social media @RyanAndSteven.Highlights:“One of our primary goals is to destigmatize loneliness, and to make it much more accessible because it’s a universal human condition and we all experience it. So it shouldn’t be shameful, it's simply a signal.” [8:10] Ryan explains the stigma of loneliness and how he and his co-author, Steven Van Cohen, want to help.“Let’s bring the book front and center; Connectable, what’s the big idea behind it? It's not just a book about loneliness…is it?” [11:52] Marcel introduces Ryan’s book, ready to dive deep about the meaning of loneliness in the workplace. “Work is the most fertile ground to lessen loneliness because there is routine, and there’s meaningful relationships that can occur, there’s purpose, there’s learning. There’s all these loneliness lifelines that we can all grasp onto.” [12:22] Ryan shares the thinking behind his book why connection is important and how work can make the difference.“This is so real for people that are listening, they understand ‘oh this is happening right now’....let’s start with the why…why are so many workers suffering right now from loneliness?’ [15:00] As Marcel relates the rising loneliness rates to his audience, Ryan explains the big ticket reasons as busyness and social media!“Loneliness was an epidemic pre COVID, and then COVID comes along…BAM...now we’re in crisis, there is an increase in loneliness and isolation. People go remote for the first time, they don’t know how to manage…that work life blend.” [18:30] Acknowledging the escalation of loneliness caused by the pandemic and the increase of remote work, Marcel challenges how to engage isolated workers. “If we experience loneliness our reaction should be to reach out and connect with others but what happens is we turn inward and it just creates this downward spiral where we isolate further.” [26:46] In Connectable, Ryan and his co-author share 10 ways to identify signals of loneliness, here he shares a few ways to see this in your co-workers or friends. “Even as an introvert, you still need to connect as well. It is in your human design to do that.” [32:50] Marcel recognizes that there are some personality types that may be assumed to prefer less connection, but still genuinely benefit from interaction.“Leaders at any level of the organization, one of the best ways is to communicate clearly. Make sure everyone knows what's going on: What we’re doing in the organization, why we’re doing things in the organization. For every leader, they should make sure that people know how they’re fitting into that bigger picture.” [43:30] What can leader’s do to create belonging in the work environment? Ryan shares some closing advice for leaders to foster connection in their organizations. Resources:Less Lonely Connectable: How Leaders Can Move Teams From Isolated to All In Send Marcel a text message!

G. Richard Shell is a global thought leader and senior faculty member at one of the world’s leading business schools, the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. His forthcoming book, The Conscience Code: Lead with Your Values. Advance Your Career, addresses an increasingly urgent problem in today’s workplace: standing up for core values such as honesty, fairness, personal dignity, and justice when the pressure is on to look the other way.Highlights:“Nobody has prepared these people that are in career transitions. This is becoming an increasing problem in professional life.” [2:46] Marcel leads into the discussion surrounding big asks in the professional world that go against morals and conscience. “Most people perceive value based moral conflicts at work as career OR conscience. This book and my work is to show how we can have career AND conscience...I’m trying to help people learn how to stand and fight.” [11:27] Richard explains the reasoning and need behind his teaching and his book.“Why do scandals keep happening? Regardless of what generation you grow in, it’s almost like we expect it to happen.” [17:27] Marcel comments on how moral conflicts are challenged in a very common way. “This is the secret of why it happens...they can access a face-saving rationalization for doing it and the rationalization the mind is trying to promote on interest, the greedy part of our minds. It’s like a mechanism and depending on how much power you have, you can draw others in.” [18:10] Richard talks about the motivation that creates conflict are values in the professional world.“In the end, moral injury is what creates burn out. When you’re sliced and diced enough at work that you no longer recognize yourself as a moral person. So it really is a matter of protecting yourself.” [27:31] Richards gives a profound statement surrounding moral injury, supporting the need to face conflict and make changes. “What role does our personality play in ethical conflict? Because we’re all different.” [31:45] Marcel comments on how an individual's personality & values affect how they respond to conflict.“So personality in terms of how you process conflict, and some people over-do it, it’s not just under doing it. Self-awareness in terms of how you manage conflict is a really important starter in becoming effective. I’m trying to help people think not conscience or career but career AND conscience.” [33:16] Richard knows that everyone responds differently to conflict but the ultimate goal is to choose career and conscience.“Don’t be a loan ranger. You’ve got to bring in people that share your values with you, that will help you stand up to things that are going on that are unethical.” [34:47] Marcel points out to involve allies to help you stand up to conflict and provide support.“The template, I borrow from the fighter pilot strategy book, it’s called the OODA Loop and the letter stands for first Observe, and that’s face the conflict. Second O - own it, make it your responsibility. Third, Decide, survey the options. Then A is Act… and then start the loop again.” [36:10] Richard explains his simple template for helping his students make the plan to tackle these moral conflicts. “The last rule that I’m gonna jump right to is rule number ten, and that’s ‘Choose to Lead’ and it seems appropriate to me because everything rises and falls on leadership. This is how you end your book, so when we choose to lead with our values, lead with courage, you’re saying we advance our career and achieve success?” [39:25] Marcel gets Richard to explain the importance of leadership.Resources:The Conscience Code: Lead with Your Values. Advance Your Career. Richard Shell - LinkedInG. Richard ShellConflict Styles AssessmentWorkStepSend Marcel a text message!

This episode is proudly sponsored by WorkStep. WorkStep makes the supply chain a better place to work. WorkStep’s leading software empowers companies to hire and retain their hourly workforce for the long run, while improving outcomes for critical frontline workers. For more information on WorkStep, visit www.workstep.com***Dan Johnston is the co-founder and CEO of WorkStep. He’s worked with some of the largest companies in the world to help them transform their approach to workforce management with cutting-edge technology.Highlights“The shortage of these frontline workers is a real thing and it’s reached critical mass.” [2:27] Marcel opens by discussing how important frontline workers are – and why today’s conversation is more relevant than ever.“At WorkStep, we help large companies better hire and, most critically, retain the frontline workforce across their supply chain. We empower companies with software that helps them source better fit hires and help them understand why their employees are leaving, what they can do about it, and how they can measure the impact of those initiatives… It’s a win for both sides,” [9:51] says Dan, discussing the role of his company WorkStep.“The top driver of turnover is career growth. Those employees who don’t feel like their company is investing in them in the same way they are investing in the company, who don’t feel there are opportunities to grow their skills, grow their wages, and grow their careers within an organization, are the employees who are most likely to quit. Those workers who are most aligned to that growth pathway are most likely to stay,” [13:25] Dan says. According to WorkStep research, the desire for career growth is the number one driver of employee turnover.“What’s interesting about those findings is that the pay is important now, but it wasn’t the top factor.”[16:09] Marcel points out that pay, while important, isn’t the leading cause of turnover.“What tends to drive people to quit is when things are different than what they expected.”[18:33] Dan remarks that problems arise when employees encounter unforeseen issues in new roles. “Especially when we’re talking about the frontline industries, with very high turnover, that new hire period is going to be very critical. Many organizations lose half of their new employees during those first 90 days.” [28:55] Dan points this out to discuss how leaders should focus on the new hire period. “Whether you buy from WorkStep or not, ensure that you’re listening to the voice of your frontline associates, analyzing what they’re saying objectively (and ideally, in real-time), and acting on the true drivers of turnover.”[34:40] Dan recognizes that this is the singular strategy for fighting turnover. “We want our workers to succeed, even to the extent that we may lose them to a competitor. But while they’re under our care, we’re gonna do whatever it takes to empower the heck out of them. It makes business sense because if we are empowering them, and loving them well, and caring for their needs, of course, there’s gonna be a higher return on their energy and of course productivity,” [37:20] Marcel says, pointing to the importance of nurturing talent.“You can save money on turnover… But it’s also the right thing to do. You, as a leader, have the opportunity to do something that improves the job (and therefore the life) of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of workers.” [42:00] Dan ends with some important info – fighting turnover is a good business decision, and an ethical one too. ResourcesMarcel Schwantes: www.Marcelschwantes.comInc. article: https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/why-are-frontline-workers-really-quitting-you-can-boil-it-down-to1-simple-fact.htmlWorkStep: https://www.workstep.com/WorkStep RETAIN: https://go.workstep.com/retain/Contact Dan: dan@workstep.comSend Marcel a text message!

Dr. Tim Elmore is the founder and CEO of Growing Leaders, an Atlanta-based nonprofit organization created to develop emerging leaders. Since founding Growing Leaders, Elmore has spoken to more than 500,000 students, faculty, and staff on hundreds of campuses across the country. Elmore has also provided leadership training and resources for multiple athletic programs, including the University of Texas, the University of Miami, the University of Alabama, The Ohio State University, and the Kansas City Royals Baseball team. Tim's expertise on emerging generations and generational diversity in the workplace has led to media coverage in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes.com, and more. Highlights:“I needed to develop off-the-platform charisma.” [6:20] Tim shared a story of one of his first criticisms and pointed to the importance of being authentic and ‘on’ all of the time.“When we are on a platform speaking to a group of people, as the leader, if we will pull back the curtain and share a window to our own soul – maybe even our own struggle – we provide a mirror for them to see their own. We give them a window, they see a mirror.”[9:35] Tim discussed the importance of letting people see the authentic, true you. In a world of alpha males, some may mistake this openness for weakness. But when you allow people to see your genuine self, they feel inspired. They see themselves, and can improve their own lives.“Great leaders are both confident and humble,” [14:25] Tim says. This is one of the paradoxes of leadership. How can we balance both confidence and humility? Tim shares a story about Disney that shows exactly how it’s done.“Confidence makes our leadership believable but humility makes our confidence believable” [15:30] This quote from Tim really spoke volumes. When leading, you need confidence – but your team also needs to buy into your vision. Carrying yourself with humility is the way to make that happen.“I want to speak like I believe I’m right and listen as if I believe I’m wrong.” [25:00] Tim says he’s currently working on this one, and discusses it along with other leadership paradoxes.“We have to kind of lean on our employees and relinquish the control and the idea that ‘I have all the answers and I’m smarter’, because there might be smarter people in the room,” [27:30] Marcel pointed out, discussing the importance of recognizing your own weaknesses.“I’m challenging you to be a follower while being a leader… I think I’ve identified in all my team members what they do better than me.” [28:50] Tim went on to expound on this point – it’s critical that we empower people to do what they do best.“Feeling heard is so close to feeling loved that it’s almost indistinguishable.” [45:30] Tim talked about the importance of feeling heard in an organization.[48:35] Context, Application, and Belief. We ended on the importance of these three things. Those three things are what everyone needs, and can be described by another term, too: Love in Action.Resources:Marcel Schwantes: www.Marcelschwantes.comTim Elmore: www.timelmore.comGrowing Leaders: www.growingleaders.comTim Elmore on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drtimelmore/Tim Elmore on Twitter: https://twitter.com/timelmoreTim Elmore on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothyelmore/detail/recent-activity/Send Marcel a text message!

Today’s show is proudly sponsored by CAI Neurodiverse Solutions. Are you prepared for the rising demand for neurodiverse talent? As the need for highly-skilled, top talent grows exponentially across most industries, CAI Neurodiverse Solutions recruits, assesses, and manages neurodivergent individuals, while creating rewarding, long-lasting careers. For more information, contact: CAINeurodiverseSolutions@cai.io.Anthony Pacilio is an expert in neurodiverse employment and currently serves as the vice president of CAI Neurodiverse Solutions. There, he helps neurodiverse candidates find roles, as well as helps businesses maintain best practices when working with neurodiverse employees. In the past, Anthony has worked in the finance and healthcare industries with similar missions. Highlights:“You’re getting a set of individuals who have different thinking patterns, who recognize different processes, and can actually broaden companies’ returns on investment.” [11:45] Anthony tells us how hiring neurodiverse candidates can actually make your organization more money.“It’s not just finding an individual to put in a job. It’s making sure the individual we are putting in that job is going to have support systems, is gonna have mentors, is gonna have everything they need to be successful.” [12:53] Anthony described the CAI’s strategy and how it’s about more than simply putting people in jobs.“Neurodiversity in the workplace is building a program that takes individuals that have these extremely valuable skillsets and putting them in a place where they’re able to succeed, but also be able to give a return on investment. And that’s the business case. We’re not doing this for charity. This is a business case.” [18:07]The first step to hiring more neurodiverse candidates? “The first shift we need to experience is a shift of the mind. It’s a mindset to want to be more curious, rather than make your general assumptions and lean on that bias that says ‘no they’re not going to be right for our organization.” [21:30]“A neurodivergent employee has unique strengths in areas that we may not even be aware of. It behooves every leader to pull that out of that person, so that they can make an impact for the organization.” [28:55]“Everybody thinks that support mechanisms are costly, that they’re thousands of dollars, and I can tell you that they’re not.” [38:03] Anthony talked about how accommodating neurodiverse people isn’t as difficult as some people think.Anthony shared a poignant story about how families react to CAI’s work. “Parents are always worried about their children – what’s gonna happen after they’re gone, if they didn’t have their independence? Well, not anymore. ” [43:00]“When you’re speaking of what we’re trying to do and leading by example in this particular space… you’re missing a whole lot of opportunity if you haven't developed empathy.” [47:02]ResourcesEmail CAI Neurodiverse SolutionsCAI Neurodiverse SolutionsNeurodiversity Career ConnectorSend Marcel a text message!