Systematic

This week’s guest is Jesse Grosjean, an independent developer known for WriteRoom, TaskPaper and a love of plain text. He joins Brett to talk coding, coffee, and board games. Sponsor Mint Mobile: Cut your wireless plan to $15 a month and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE by visiting mintmobile.com/systematic. Show Links twitter/@jessegrossjean WriteRoom TaskPaper FoldingText Rob Trew – @ComplexPoint – GitHub/RobTrew Rust Swift Notion Quip Top 3 Picks Wingspan Carcassonne (no longer available) Quest 2 Headset Morning Drinks Califia Farms – Oat Milk, Unsweetened Barista Blend Crema.co Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Jesse [00:00:00] Brett:My guest this week is Jesse Grosjean, an independent developer. How’s it going, Jessie? Jesse:Oh, good. Thanks for having me. Brett:Uh, you were last on in 2012. That is so long ago. Jesse:Yeah. Yeah. Um, it, I been programming ever since, although over time it seems like I programmed slower and slower, but that’s what I do. Brett:Is that just part of aging or are you becoming more careful in your, in your older years? Jesse:I don’t know. I think it’s, it’s part of, I have lots of fun programming and I learn more over time and I sort of, I think I get I’m Mo it at the moment. I’m more into like making my programs pretty and data structures and things. Not that I’m a super great person at that, but yeah. Uh, I don’t know. I’m very deep. Like, I, I can tell you the story of my last few years and it all [00:01:00] started out with all right, let’s see how to search a bunch of files. And now I’m like four years or three years into Russ programming and parallel programming and all this stuff. And it was all just to search a few files. Brett:Oh boy. Um, I have this habit, like I’ll start out a project with what I consider to be like a good. Bait like object. I don’t know what you call when you map out what properties and what objects and how everything’s going to interact. And then it gets out of hand so quickly. It’s I start adding too many properties and too many controllers. And, uh, my, my apps after a year ended up being unmanageable and I ended up having to start over. Jesse:Yeah. And I, for, for me, especially recently, I mean, I certainly have that problem. And what I do is I start over continuously and especially if I get stuck on something, my, my desktop is scattered with junk mail, junk, junk, junk, junk, junk, junk, all these little. [00:02:00] Junk things, trying to get all the mess out of the way. So I can actually figure out the massive, my existing program out of the way. So I can figure out what this one little attribute does or something. But, uh, it, I, at the moment I keep on going deeper and deeper into probably stupid. I don’t know. I just let’s see if we can reinvent this, you know, but it is fun and it’s very, go ahead. Brett:is this a, is this searching text files, uh, or searching files? Uh, is that your next project? Jesse:Yeah. I mean, basically previous my sort of application history that is inter the way I look at it. Anyway, I did a few apps early on that were just kind of learning how to develop Mac stuff. And then the first one I had success with big success was with Rite room, which is a very. Simple app that just blocks out your screen and does full screen mode. [00:03:00] And then, so the next step was task paper, which was okay. To-do list in a text file. People liked text files. I like text files. Let’s see how simple you can do that. And so task paper is a very simple syntax to make a to-do list. And I worked on that for a bit. And then. I wanted to, you know, always want to expand and make things, do more and stuff. And so the next step was folding text and that, um, the basics of has, it takes a marked on file, then it makes it so you can fold the various, like, you know, in a code text editor, how you can fold, um, regions of text. Well, it does that in markdown structure and then it also, um, I like outliners a lot. And so the, the underlying model is really an outliner and that’s the same thing with TaskPaper it’s outliners that feel like text editors and, um, [00:04:00] folding text ads, uh, also a query language. So you can filter the document by a query and it’s very sophisticated or complex or something like that, query language. And, uh, then. So, so that’s the direction I’ve been headed as time goes on, things get more complicated. I probably should have just stuck with right room, but then, then my, then my programming life would be boring. Um, and, but right room, I sort of R sorry, folding text was sort of the big effort, but I didn’t like the way it turned out, particularly, um, in that. I for all these apps, I kind of use them for the same thing, which is, I’m not a very organized person. I don’t keep like long journey. I mean, I try sometimes to do journals or something, but mostly it’s just like a pizza sketch paper. And I read out ideas on it, most of the time programming ideas, but I [00:05:00] just sort of, I’m very interested in the feel and the environment and folding text-based basing it on markdown, which. I on one hand think is great, but on the other hand, I don’t feel very calm in it with all the various things going on. And anyway, and also folding text while the sales started out great, they were dropping so that past paper was selling better. And so anyway, I did do after folding text or rewrite of task paper just to modernize it. But then my, my big project, well, all those projects, what they share in common is, uh, very much, uh, uh, plain text based approach. And then, uh, uh, strong, uh, rich, uh, I like to allow people to do plugins and things like that, so that they provide that kind of API APIs and the data model that people can change. Yeah. Extensibility. Yeah. Yeah. So I always think that’s [00:06:00] a fun, you know, I never use it basically ever in other other programs, I’m not really that kind of person, but just the idea really appeals to me. And I like it. You know, I have fun doing that anyway, providing it. Um, so they’ve all plain text files with extensibility and, you know, they’re focused. Maybe towards tasks or something, but basically there, they try to be flexible programs that you can use for lots of different ways. And so the next thing I want to do is make it so that you can support multiple files. Now, how hard can that be? And, uh, that’s what I’ve been working on since and in various forms. Um, but the, I guess the, the thing that, so basically my, my vision is. Very simple. You know, every code editor has this little file tree and you can browse through the files. And I liked that. Um, but [00:07:00] then for extensibility, I, there there’s a few details that I want different. And so for example, save searches are always something that, um, people talk about in applications and in task paper. And so task paper, I build a new separate UI for saved searches. And it shows up in the sidebar, right. And you click on it and it shows the search results. Um, with multiple files, I’m starting to think sort of, I think of it isn’t instead of a text-based UIs like a file based UI. So maybe there’s a new file type called search. And you just put that in one of your folders and it’s has a certain format, which saves your search, you know, in a plain text file. When you click on it, it will open a document, which. Show search results. And it seems to me like that’s a pretty extensible way you could do, you know, a calendar or it’s an extensible way. So you have a basic database of text files, and then you can have some text files, which are plugins [00:08:00] that they store their data and texts, but they show, you know, you can, they’re more user interface than what we think of as text file. If that makes any sense at all. right. I think they, yeah. And they that’s interesting cause yeah, I’ve tried both of them, but not in detail enough to actually have ever come across that, I guess with them. They’re both sort of apps that I love. Like, I think they’re really cool. And then I hate because there’s just, so I don’t know, it’s this foreign thing I assume. I mean, maybe it’s all plain text files that I can sync to my computer, but I don’t think it is. Um, and [00:09:00] like, I don’t know, like, I think they’re cool on one hand, but then I can’t, when I’m actually in the editor. It’s just, there’s so many different things that it can do that I don’t have that nice calm feeling. If that makes sense. I, I definitely have over the years, I don’t know that I’ve seen, I’m sure I haven’t seen it. I haven’t downloaded it. And you know, it’s been quite a while. Right. Brett:so, so there was envy old Jesse:That’s what I’m thinking Brett:Yeah, that’s been, that’s like a decade old and I, I, I stopped updating that because I started working on, uh, an app called bit writer. That was just basically going to be a modernized version of envy old. And then the guy I was working on that with just disappeared. Like I have no idea what happened to him. Stop responding to two emails, messages, just gone. Um, [00:10:00] Jesse:Never knew that it was such a phenomenon, but I guess it is. Brett:I, yeah, I’m a little worried. Like, it’s been a couple. Yeah. Since I, since I’ve heard a word, I have concerns, but so I let that, I let that project die after, after, uh, uh, kind of dragging dry, uh, what’s the PR making people, um, worry about it for like three years and, uh, eventually gave it up. And then, uh, Fletcher, penny, the guy who created multi-market down. Jesse:Yes. Yeah. Brett:he contacted me with like a rough draft of his version of envy guilt, and I got all excited and I signed on and we are developing together, uh, an entirely modern Regan re-imagining of NBA salt called NBA ultra cleverly enough. Jesse:Nice. Brett:if you want on the beta, if anyone listening wants on the beta, it’s pretty open right now, but you have to ask. [00:11:00] Jesse:Yeah. I mean, I would love to sure. Yeah, I have this whole pie. That’s one corner of my desktop is just a dump of all these various applications and it’s I do like trying them a lot. Brett:but yeah, we extensibility like we, the NV ultra has customizable themes and you can save searches, but when it comes to adding an extensibility, that’s something that I do in my projects, but I don’t tend to put out commercial apps. With that kind of, uh, like the, what folding text had. And there was a whole community that kind of developed around writing extensions for folding text. Do you think that having that kind of extensibility is worth the extra support that it causes? Jesse:um, I have no, I mean, I guess worth is so does it drive enough sales? To do do the thing I would say, I don’t know. Probably [00:12:00] not. Because if I look around at lots of popular, shiny apps, none of them support that. And if I look at my apps, they aren’t quite as shiny or popular and they do support that. Um, but it is, I dunno, it’s the most interesting part of the whole thing for me, like in the forums, talking to people. And so it makes the apps a lot more fun to develop. I think. Brett:sure. Jesse:API for extensibility. So, you know, it’s sort of, there has, and it would be practically [00:13:00] impossible to compact the two. So there, you know, I sort of, if people are doing scripts that take them, you know, half a day or something, then I think that’s a good level. Like, I don’t want to be like Photoshop or something where you, I, I’ve no idea. I haven’t used Photoshop in years and years, but I imagine, you know, they provide this. Hard API that then they don’t try to break for a long time and things like that. And I’m more into it sort of as if somebody asks, can I do this? Then I have a way to say, well, yes, you can hack it this way. And it’ll pretty much work. And, you know, and I think that’s a, been a lot of fun. Brett:nice. Yeah. Well, I look at an app like text mate. Did you ever get into text mate? Jesse:No, not, I mean, no, I, I, I used it as a demo again, but mostly I just use X code cause I wasn’t using doing Ruby or any, any of those things too much. Brett:Well, it built this, um, it was the first truly extensible editor that I ever used. And I, I [00:14:00] got into it and found this very active community, mostly via like, it was a mailing list, but, uh, but everyone building plugins and sharing themes and, uh, it, I really felt like the success of text mate hinged on. It’s extensibility and the community that, that created, um, that, you know, counterpoint to that text may really isn’t a thing anymore. So I don’t know if that’s commercially viable or not. Jesse:Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know it’s for, uh, like for example, for, um, yeah, I dunno. I, yeah, I don’t know. Um, I have fun thinking about it anyway, though. And that’s definitely a strength. Stability is a big part of what I’m thinking about for my next stuff, but. Yeah. W whether it’s a good idea, I don’t know. I’m sure for some people, it would be a really good idea. They’ll really like it. But if [00:15:00] enough people, I don’t know. Brett:So do you think the, the folding texts community is ready to kind of move on with you to whatever your next thing is? Jesse:Um, I’ve, I mean, I don’t think there’s, I can’t, I have no idea how, how many people are still using folding text, because it I’ve made it for free for a number of years. And, but it’s like free, but I just set the price to zero on the payment platform. And so like, I get, you know, sales every day and so some people are downloading it. I’ve no idea if they’re using it just as a quick demo or using it lots. And, uh, for my current app it’s or my current idea for the next stuff, if I could ever get it done is pretty. Different than folding texts in a lot, you know, folding texts, the idea was how much can I cram into the text editor and my current ideas? How [00:16:00] much can I cram into files in the file system? And so I, it’s similar in, it’s a very extensible idea, but it’s a completely, it’s sort of different ends of the spectrum. So I don’t really know if it, uh, will be appealing to them. And this, you know, maybe for a different task, it would be, but it’s sort of a different take. Brett:Yeah. I feel like people who get into it, the idea of an extensible app, it’s a very specific crowd who, uh, almost gets more excited about the idea of extending something than just the idea of using it. Uh, I count myself among those people. Like as soon as I see an app has the capability for me to make it do something new that’s, uh, that’s really appealing to me. I feel like I’m part of a small. Commercially non-viable segment of the, uh, the Mac community, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a vibrant [00:17:00] segment, I guess Jesse:Yes. Yeah, yeah. Brett:do you know, complex point Jesse:Yes. Oh, definitely. He, uh, Brett:his real name? Jesse:Uh, I know it. I have a chat window, but let’s see. Can I, um, Brett:I feel like I probably know him. In both real-world and as complex point, but I’ve never associated Jesse:I think he let’s see, um, I I’m terrible with names. Brett:while you, while you Jesse:I sh I, Brett:I’ll Jesse:I should know. Brett:I’ll tell people that this it’s a person who, Jesse:Oh yeah. Rob is Brett:Oh yeah, yeah. Right. Jesse:Rob. True. Brett:Rob true. Yes. He writes scripts and I’ve seen him in the forums for multiple, uh, apps with especially JavaScript extensibility. And, uh, he writes amazing scripts that do [00:18:00] amazing things and solve just about every problem. And I find myself very jealous of his, his problem solving skills, I guess. Jesse:Yeah. And he’s actually like, he’s definitely the one who uses task paper. The, the, the biggest expert on task paper scripting. He helps a lot in the forums when people have questions. And so, yes, I, I he’s, he’s definitely the one who uses task paper scripting, the most that I’m aware of. Brett:uh, every task, paper, scrip I’ve uh, I’ve I Britain, or that I use has at least something that, uh, that came from Rob. Yeah. I’ll put them in the show notes. Jesse:Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Cause he’s, he, he’s very nice to me and I dunno, we chat from time to time, although, as you can see, my name for memories is my memory for names is not very good. Brett:same. Yeah. Um, okay. So w you were telling me, and we’re going to get nerdy, but, [00:19:00] uh, you were telling me that the current version of task paper, uh, while it has, uh, kind of Coco elements in the front end actually has a JavaScript. Backend is that how you would phrase it? Jesse:In various ways, basically what the model of is that, uh, it reads a plain text file into an outline structure. And then it’s the outline structure that you manipulate when you’re editing. And then when you save it, it turns it back into a text file. But the, the, like if you look at test papers, scripting API, you’re moving objects around, not, not ranges of text. [00:20:00] Yup. Yup. Um, I’m uh, I have no idea why at the moment I’m. Having lots of fun with rust, which is my new JavaScript for, so now my I’m doing the back, the model layer in rust and the front end and Coco Swift. Um, and so I like I’m doing some consulting in objective C and I have to say that I like Swift a lot better just for like the experience of actually using it. There’s all kinds of neat. Uh, I don’t know, background about addictive, see and small talk and things like that. I always thought that’s the kind of person I am, but I’m really now liking rust. And that seems [00:21:00] like it’s kind of the opposite of all that. So I’m not really sure what I’m supposed to be now. Brett:you, should I learn Russ before I learn objectives or before I learned Swift Jesse:I don’t know. I, I think that if not, if you want to get something done, maybe because. Pretty much when I started on my third current thing, I started learning Russ, but for me it’s been super useful and fun as just a way to learn a little bit it’s lower level programming. Right. And so Swift, the thing that, and this is like, especially when creating task paper and just in general programming on the Macintosh, even in objective C as you’re building off all these frameworks that are closed source, and that’s always been a huge frustration for me. Um, cause I can never, I never, like, I dunno, I don’t have like a team of people or anybody I know who really programs right around me, especially programs, Macintosh stuff. And so the way to find the right way to do things [00:22:00] is, I don’t know how you do it really, you know, you search on stack overflow or get hub or something. And it used to, like when I first started out mailing lists really useful, but I haven’t got a useful answer from a objective C or Swift mailing list. And I’m not sure I have, there’s probably some Google search that will show somebody meaning that people are very nice, but a lot of the time you don’t get the answer. Like, you know, why, why is this happening? And there’s no way to find out really. And so the thing that I love about rust is that. All those frameworks are open source and you can just dig down. And also it’s small enough now that there’s, you you’re, you’re, you’re quickly humbled and how little, you know, with at least I am with all my questions to rust people. Cause they’re sort of much lower the people who are sort of the foundation of it, know lots of low level stuff that I don’t know, but I’ve found that boy, they have explained stuff to me so often and so quickly, and I’m sort of amazed now. It hasn’t actually helped me really some product, but. [00:23:00] They, it sure is fun. Brett:Yeah. Jesse:and it’s really so Swift, I always have all these problems making it fast. Uh, trance, you know, is this string in an Estring? What’s the conversion between the two, et cetera. And it just drives me nuts cause I can never tell. What’s actually really happening, if that makes sense. And it creates performance problems and it creates just general frustration. Whereas with rust it’s, you know, that what’s happening is right there in front of you. If you just look hard enough and you can see the bit turning or whatever, um, now it might take a while to actually figure it out, but that’s really satisfying to me. Brett:The source and everything is part of the beauty of something like Swift is, uh, you don’t have to, [00:24:00] you don’t have to know how everything works. You kind of, you have these simple to use tools to accomplish the tasks you’re allowed to accomplish, accomplish. Jesse:Yup. And, and I would say that you were asking, I was, should I learn rushed instead of Swift? I think probably the answer for most Mac programmers are 99.9 is probably no. Swift is definitely the straightaway to go with. That said rust is famous for being hard to learn. And I definitely, it wasn’t easy for me to learn. But I feel like I know it pretty well now. And I’ve programmed in Swift, probably just as much, but I know Swift less. Well, it feels like Swift has a lot more, I don’t know when it’s dumb, but you know, there’s like protocol or an in programming and there was some talk that they gave. And I certainly, I think I know what a program protocol is and what protocol oriented programming is pretty well, but [00:25:00] there’s all these weird little cases like. Conformance something. I, you know, I’m just throwing out words. Cause I don’t know what the exact detail was, but in rust it has some similar issues, but, and maybe I, I expect they’re probably very similar and the same answers on both of them rust. I feel like I know that the various ins and outs Swift, I never quite know why, you know, if that makes sense. And there’s some. Details to the Swift and Swift is also growing much faster. I don’t know. There’s just the language itself. I think again, I’m not an expert. And I think under the hood there, they’re very similar in a lot of ways, you know, they’re both, uh, typed with templates and all this stuff, but I tend to like Russ better. Although I suspect it you’ll actually make an app faster, especially on the Mac with Swift. Maybe not. Brett:So. Jesse:Yeah. Brett:Um, so you said something about, uh, liking markdown, but the looking [00:26:00] at the files made you uneasy. Jesse:Yeah, just, Brett:that. Jesse:well, uh, so like right now, I dunno, I’m looking at my I’m in task paper. I just have a few notes on what my three things I was going to talk about, you know, very short, a couple of paragraphs and. Even looking there, like I have questions, should I put a dash in front of it? Or should I just make a simple outline without the dashes? And I decided like, without the dashes, although I’m not sure I wanted all the Taluk, which is what task paper does when you don’t put a dash in front of it and Mark down the heading thing. I’ve never liked the way the headings look, which is dumb Brett:w like the ATX style with Jesse:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that. Big thing that ATX style. Yeah. And I’ve almost found that like, uh, I hardly ever use an iPad, but I sit with my son sometimes when he’s going to sleep [00:27:00] and I’ve been writing in like the Apple notes app with rich text and I’m like, huh, I kind of liked this better than, you know, cause it just looks cleaner. And so test paper, I mean folding texts, one thing I didn’t like was the. That style, but also just, I was trying to map it to an outline because that’s what my query language is based on and the whole API for manipulating it. And while some of it maps, a lot of it maps very cleanly to an outline, there’s all kinds of edge cases. And that was, I think, more than just the way it looks. That was probably the big thing is that it, it didn’t map to an outline. And that’s what the end goal was. And of course, I mean, it kind of does, but you know, there’s just all kinds of weird cases that it’s, it’s the who’s, what’s the child here, you know, or if you move this here, how do you keep it a valid thing? If you move this item here and the parent is a list item and you know, there’s all kinds [00:28:00] of complexity. Brett:um, so I know folding texted did this to some extent, but have you ever worked in. Any of the editors that really make like markdown look like rich texts. So like once, once you hit enter on a headline, it turns it into a like three, uh, like 21 point bold. Jesse:Right. And I, I haven’t were, I mean, I that’s sort of, I. You know, like notion and those things kind of do that kind of, I mean, they, if they’re not marked down, but they, you kinda enter text and then you set the type and then it’s set and it’s, it’s different than like select highlighting it and saying bold. Um, and I liked that, um, the. And I’ve I think I forget there was one big one with the Mac that was like the first one. I think it was a cross-platform app. That was the first one. Anyway, that I’d seen that did that for Mark down in it. It doesn’t even, [00:29:00] you don’t even have to press enter. Right. You just kind of, it recognizes it on the fly. And I liked that idea a lot. Um, but it’s hard. I don’t know. I haven’t, uh, I’m not sure. I like it enough to. I’m a little bit against magic kind of things and that’s magic. Um, but it might be, I don’t know, I haven’t I’m for it, but I haven’t done it Quip. Yes. Brett:I’m a big fan of Quip as an alternative to Google docs. Anyway. Jesse:Yeah, I’m trying to like, again, my using it’s in the pile of apps on my desktop. I don’t remember. Yeah. So I’m just opening it to remember what it looks like. It looks different now. I guess the things with, I like it. It’s neat. It does so much though. That, which are obviously an app does so much, you can just, you don’t have to do it right. [00:30:00] But still, whenever I look at it, I think of that. Um, I guess the things that sort of with notion and all these apps, they have this idea of, you know, there’s this constant, uh, button hovering so that you can change the type of items, which again, I liked that idea, but at the same time, Brett:It is a web it’s a web view. It, I think it’s. I think the desktop version is electronic, but it’s a web app. I like that. If you, if you start align with, with three hashtags hashes and then type a headline, when [00:31:00] you, when you, Oh, as soon as you hit space after the hash, is it switches the type to an H three. If you type a dash and then space, it starts a bullet list for you. And then if you copy stuff out, Jesse:Yeah. Yup. Yeah. And it, um, I do like it, so I don’t know. I’m still how far away I’m on my current project. So I go back and forth one thing, uh, So I, I guess the, the, the, to the next version of task paper on, on one hand, the idea was to, yes. Do very much that kind of thing. Like add support for bold and Italian, like, and things like that, um, that were where you wouldn’t have to type out the markdown things and links. Those are the kinds [00:32:00] of bold italic and links without seeing all the, the, the syntax or the link. Um, but then on the other hand, my other thought is, Brett:which is kind of the idea behind markdown to begin with. Jesse:I guess I would say w w w all within the same app and as by design, kind of w which, and by reports, I think of like a calendar view as a report, or, you know, a, my to-do my schedule for this week, like two dues that are due. Cause a lot of the time people use task paper and it’s [00:33:00] they for to-do lists and they always want to generate, you know, What’s going to happen next week. How do I gather my things? And I can do it in, uh, you know, the task paper has all these queries and you can do it, but it always feels to me like, boy, this would just be better if you just generated it in a nice, clean view that was displayed in a web view or something. But you could switch back and forth very quick. And then you would have super simple editing without having to worry about folds and all this stuff in your way. You kind of have both of them. And so that, that is very much like down, but not, not, uh, extending the idea beyond just a published document to other, squeezing the data into other views. Brett:all right. Well, I look forward to what you’re working on. I look forward to seeing this. Jesse:Me too. Brett:All right. Well, let’s talk about some top three picks. Jesse:All right. Um, um, let’s see. [00:34:00] So we, I have two, two kids, one in high school and one’s in fifth grade and the fifth grader, big into board games. And so the family minus the high school or wait, we play board games and a current one that we really like is wingspan, which I don’t know if you play board games, but. For me, I Brett:before the pandemic, I did enjoy a good game night. Jesse:Oh yeah. Okay. Yep. Well, w w uh, I don’t know. I always there there’s like, they’re not new anymore, but you know, the non monopoly games, so ones with lots of rules and pieces and things like that. We like those ones, except there’s sort of cooperative ones, which. [00:35:00] I guess they called it an engine building game, you know, where each person is working on their own. And there’s not too much conflict of like over territory or something, but, uh, or anyway, it’s, uh, we’re having a lot of fun with it. Brett:that sounds cool. I, uh, I, I bought, uh, the game pandemic, Jesse:Yes. Brett:Before the pandemic I bought, because I liked the idea of a cooperative board game. I’ve never actually played it. Uh, Jesse:well, we, we have pandemic too, and I love the idea, but it, in the end, in my experience, lots, I know people who love pandemic, but for me, um, I don’t know. It turns it’s more of a conversation. You, you, you don’t, you, you don’t sit there and think about your own stuff and dream up your own things. You spend the entire time collaborating with other people, which. That sounds good. Doesn’t it? But I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m not as interested in that. Brett:So [00:36:00] what’s the basic idea behind wingspan. Jesse:Um, well, the first thing, even for us who liked to play all these board games, I don’t know what the first version, the first time you play it, it’s very confusing, but it’s a game where you have, uh, cards that you draw and, uh, which are birds. You’re you’re you have an apiary, I guess it’s called and, uh, Um, so you’ve got birds which are coming in the form of cards and you’ve got eggs, which are how you get new birds kind of, and you’ve got food. And so those are your cards, eggs, and food. And then you can, uh, fill out these various habitats and cards have powers. And then when you sort of go to a habitat for a resource, all the cards that are in it, Have powers that might play. So when you kind of just, you build up an engine, you know, where, okay. Now when I do this, all these things happen. Cause I [00:37:00] planned ahead or I got lucky or something. And so when you start out, it’s slow, but as you go, it gets better and it’s yeah, it sounds, and it seems like you never, the games are usually pretty close. Like, you know, I guess 70 points is a kind of a base score and it seems like everybody’s within 10 of it. So that’s nice. And you’re not like, I don’t know. There’s some games where you can very easily defeat the other person or at least provide offend against them. And this one, you’re all kind of working against on your own with you. There’s some ways to compete, but it’s not, you’re working on your own. Then you compare scores in the end. Brett:what’s the balance in rough estimate, balanced between, uh, luck and strategy. Jesse:I don’t know. Cause I haven’t usually when I, when it’s, there’s a lot of strategy involved, but then sometimes I get unlucky and I, I don’t know. [00:38:00] Um, basically, I don’t know, cause I haven’t, I’ve played it for maybe a month. Um, but it seems like with us, everybody has one. Similar amounts of time, which would mean to me, that must be lots of luck, but when you, when you feel like you’re, you feel like you’re in control, so, you know, I that’s, that’s the best kind, right? Right. And this one, I think that there’s the competition isn’t so direct. Well, one, I’m not like we, I play board games. If I’m casual, you know, there’s lots of forums where you’ll find some expert who I’m sure has a, a much better opinion on all this, but for me, it’s just, uh, it’s more the [00:39:00] fun part. Is kind of building up your engine and seeing how it goes, and then you’ll be like, Oh, I think it’s not obvious to me either at the end of the game, which one of which, which of us has one, then you count all the points. Cause there’s a number of different dimensions that you total at the points in your, Oh, I won or, Oh, I won. So it’s more kind of building a satisfying engine, at least that’s how I see it when I’m playing it right now. Brett:all right. Well, that sounds like something I’m going to check out. Jesse:You don’t mind tell you recommended and uh, And I think actually it’s, uh, we play the board game, but it’s a computer game too, which my wife plays w w and I think I try to stay away from if I have the board game and I play it on the iPad or something, then all of a sudden the board game becomes much less fun. Cause you have to like wait forever if you’re used to going fast. But, uh, anyway, there, there is a computer game and that’s another way Brett:have you tried any of the online card games? Jesse:I haven’t no. Brett:a, there are [00:40:00] a couple online versions of cards against humanity that I’ve had. Like we started having, um, Plex based watch together movie nights, uh, after quarantine started. And, and that’s been a lot of fun and great way to, I like ’em better than actual movie nights where I had to go to someone’s house. Um, but online card games have actually been. Uh, a good, a good substitute for game nights and the cards against humanities that are out there, uh, kind of clones they’re, they’re fun. They’re sketchy. Uh, they, they crash a lot, but yeah, I have found, I don’t have a family per se. I have my partner and the two of us together are good at like cribbage. But board games aren’t as much fun with just two people. Uh, Jesse:Right. Oh, the wings, the wingspan game does, you can do it with two people since it’s pretty much just you building your own thing. So that’s, that’s [00:41:00] one good thing about it. Brett:Yeah. I would be curious about finding a board board game board poured style games that could be played by groups online. I haven’t looked into that much yet. Jesse:Yeah. It seems like that. Again, I haven’t looked deeply. I like. Uh, carcass on, on the iPad is that’s always, I’ve looked at other ones and they’re never as fun as that, that, like, I think it’s actually, there’s a new version now maybe, but the coding monkeys people, I think that people made a card game and it was like, or a board game. And I still play that one. I liked that one, but, yep. Brett:right, so what’s your second pick. Jesse:All right. Well, my second one is, is. I have lots of hesitation, but it’s the quest two headset, which is a VR thing. And it’s got it’s Facebook. It’s, you’re selling your soul when you buy it. And it’s also VR, which I’m [00:42:00] not, you know, you plug yourself in, and now you’re in a new world, which are all things that are not entirely appealing to me with that said it’s. Then I thought it’s really cool looking. So I don’t play many video games, like, you know, the 2d or, you know, fancy, uh, where you have a fancy IBM PC and you play video games. I don’t do that. Um, Brett:make PCs Jesse:right. Either. Yeah. Windows, whatever it is, the stuff I can’t play Brett:old are you? Jesse:Yeah. Um, but I do like to every five years or so, look at the latest tech and see, wow, this is how good it looks now. And. For a long time, it looks better, but I’m just like, this is still so boring. Um, but this VR headset thing, you know, we’ve only had it a month or something, but I’m very impressed the way it looks like it’s just the first one. It’s like, wow, I can’t believe technology does this. And now it’s sort of [00:43:00] a little bit boring now that you know, it’s still a video game and the actual games aren’t quite as interesting, but just for a tech demo. Um, I’m amazed that it’s possible. And I’m sure, I mean, I think VR headsets that are somewhat similar must be around for the last five years or maybe longer, but it’s the first time I’ve been exposed and I was like, wow, this is quite the amazing thing. Brett:I want to say October, uh, I, I had a guest, um, who was that? It was, Oh, Alex Cox was on and, uh, their pick for, uh, one of their, one of their top three picks was the Oculus quest, like first version. So at which is no longer available in just a short, short span of time. Since October, apparently when did the two come out, Jesse:Uh, I think October actually [00:44:00] seriously, maybe I, it was, it was before Christmas anyway. Brett:do you, you don’t have any grounds for comparison, like you don’t know Jesse:No, yeah, no, I have no idea. I’m just rather amazed like this, this one, you know, requires no separate computer. You has no chords, you just kind of plug in and it looks fancy and it tracks you so closely. It’s kind of amazing. Brett:what kind of stuff do you do with it? Jesse:Well, yeah, the best part by far for me is just the, the wow factor of, um, you know, their initial demos the first day. You’re just like, wow, this is amazing. And it’s so, and so what do we actually do with it? Um, The, the, whatever the beat saber is the only one that I sort of can play over where you sit there and slash away with music blaring in your ears, but it’s kind of fun. Yes, I think so. It’s, it’s sort of there there’s very much, again, for me, who’s not a big gamer person. I’ve tried demos of other stuff and it’s not nearly as, you know, [00:45:00] fun, but that one’s neat. And. I don’t love plugging myself in and having everything else go away, but it is neat saying, all right, maybe I’ll dry this and then, huh, that’s going to make me stand up and jump around. And that’s kinda neat. I like, I like that. Brett:nice. That’s why I bought, that’s why I bought, uh, an X-Box whatever with the connect. Uh, I thought it was after the, we came out and the, we didn’t appeal to me, but I thought that connect would make me enjoy video gaming more if it was more of a full body experience, uh, that did not turn out to be true. Jesse:Yeah, I don’t, I’m not, I’ve never tried that or really know anything about it, but what, what is the con. no, not that [00:46:00] I can find. No. I mean, for me, really, the, there there’s the beat saver. One is really neat. Um, I don’t know if you, you could get bored of it pretty quick, but ni Justin that you go do it. And it’s like, wow, that’s pretty neat. You know, after 15 minutes, my face hurts and I, you, it’s not something you do for a super long period of time, but it’s just kind of a neat experience. Um, and I ha we haven’t bought a ton of other ones. There’s like a shooting arrows one, which is kinda neat. And my son really likes that and runs around like crazy and sweats a lot. I’ve tried it and I kinda like it, but not, not really used to it. It’s more tense, beat sabers, just kind of satisfying instead of tense, if that makes sense. Um, yeah, but give a try or try a friends or something. Um, but just as far as a tech technology demo that I wasn’t aware of, it’s pretty cool. Brett:Awesome. All [00:47:00] right. Well, hopefully they’ll get more comfortable over time to think that would be the next step. Jesse:Well, yeah, although I don’t know if I really would want to spend, I mean, maybe I would want to, I don’t know if I would want myself to spend all day in there, but you know, but yup. Brett:I could see, like, if, if I could actually work, if I could code in a new environment, like it seems to open up the possibilities, a minority report style for actually building interfaces. Uh, for doing, you know, your, your work or, or your hobbies, but to, to build new paradigms of, of human input devices like that, that’s the stuff I find most interesting about, uh, the possibilities of VR Jesse:Yeah. Yeah. And they do, they do have, I haven’t tried them, but apps that, you know, allow you to open lots, your computer screen, you know, 15 times or something. And I, Brett:about Jesse:yeah, it would be [00:48:00] neat. Although I think it would, I don’t think I would be able to survive, you know, it, it would my eyes and my head and everything would get too tired. But, um, so I haven’t really tried it, but it certainly is it certainly as a new, uh, new technology that’s interesting, or one that I wasn’t aware of any way. It’s not that new kind of thing, but you know, Brett:it’s newish. Jesse:new-ish yes. Brett:All right. So what’s your third pick? Jesse:Um, I guess morning drinks. And so just espresso and tea. I drink a lot of like, I like fancy green teas and. Espresso machine. Um, I sort of, I never drank coffee and then I decided, well, I should try it out. Everybody likes it. And then I decided that, um, I would like espresso cause that’s, I sort of like processes and complexity and wasting time. And that seemed the best, the most complex way to make coffee. And so, um, [00:49:00] looked into that and then eventually got this old used broken actually too. Commercial espresso machines and then put them together. And that was a into one that worked. And so I know nothing about that kind of stuff, but it was a fun project over the maybe a year ago. I think I finally got started working. Brett:I would be really curious to, like I have, I have an espresso machine and I love it. I use it daily, but I don’t really understand how it works. would be an interesting project to me. Jesse:Yeah, it’s definitely, um, I know nothing about any, anything that’s physical and it scared me a little bit in that there’s electricity involved. Um, but there’s, you know, lots of friendly people in forms. And if you send pictures and act dumb, cause you are dumb, I got a lot of help and it was a fun project. Um, and. Oh, go [00:50:00] ahead. Brett:Can you imagine if Rob Tru was into espresso machines? Jesse:I know maybe. Yeah. There’s, there’s the, the one thing about espresso is that I think I don’t really taste stuff. I like lots of food and do lots of food stuff, but I don’t taste like I’m not, if I make it. And there was a long process, I’ll like it, no matter what, there’s no choice. And so lots of the people in the espresso forums are talking a lot about different flavors and, uh, how, how do I get this? And my machine’s a commercial one, but an older it’s like 20 years old. And a lot of them talk about temperature is sort of the defining factor. And I don’t have much control over temperature. And I also haven’t ever like had espresso with somebody who knows what things tastes like and can say, this is this. That is that. Um, so yeah, my I’m sort of. I’m missing a lot of it, but I’m still having lots of fun with it. [00:51:00] Brett:Even medium, but especially to dark, I’ve gone like all in on light roast coffee. Jesse:Yeah. And that seems from what I’ve read, that seems to be the big that’s what all the fancy espresso machines. At least in the forums I read are trying to do now is make it so that you can extract it more, you know, it’s, it’s more temperamental and so you can extract it better. And I also have kind of liked, I always describe it as sort of a sour taste. Although I think that people say that’s wrong. It’s, there’s some other better way to describe it, sours wrong, but, uh, Brett:know all the wine tastes or words Jesse:Yeah. Yeah. I think sours has negative connotations, but, but I, I also kind of like that all the, my, my wife is very firmly. Doesn’t like that sour taste and likes the darker, darker ones. So I don’t know. Brett:L L went and bought her [00:52:00] own like coffee set up like a stove, top espresso thing. Because my, when, when I get espresso, quote unquote, right when I’m really happy with it, uh, she, she doesn’t like it at all, Jesse:Yep. Brett:too bitter. Um, I, I, like I said, I don’t know all the words, like what I considered to be like the high notes. I really liked those strong and, and to her that she likes dark Rose, rich smooth coffee, which is to me a failure on my espresso machine. So she’s, she’s, you know, taking coffee, making, uh, uh, uh, on, on her own Jesse:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m still, I still get to make it and I’ve been, I usually add D like foam milk and stuff. So in the end they all taste pretty good, but, uh, Brett:I, I found out I, well, I guess I kind of knew, but I confirmed that I have a, uh, [00:53:00] lactose intolerance, so it took some searching, but I actually found an oat milk, uh, uh, barista edition. I think it’s by Oatley. That I can get a great micro-foam out of, on my espresso machine. And Jesse:Oh, cool. Yeah. Brett:enjoying that. Jesse:Yeah, I’m always, I’m always amazed. I am not, for me. It’s, it’s very much jug of milk specific. Like some jugs of milk will work so well and then some have a problem and it’s very noticeable. Just that whole jug has a problem. And then the next one is perfect the whole way. I don’t know. It’s interesting. Brett:I will throw in a mention here, uh, for you and for my listeners, uh, crema, uh, it’s uh, uh, coffee company, prima.co. Uh, they, they bend like a whole array of different roasters and different roasts. And you can create these [00:54:00] playlists and schedule like weekly or bi-weekly or monthly. Uh, just automatic, uh, that it shows up at your door. And I have found so many good coffees with this and, uh, I love it so much that I’ll give you my affiliate link and save you some money and make me some, uh, some free coffee out of the deal. Jesse:All right. Yeah, definitely. Brett:yeah, that’ll, that’ll be in the show notes. Uh, I absolutely love the service. I should get them to sponsor the show. Jesse:I’ve been buying. I, I, the, I I’ve generally been buying like five pound bags and then put them in the freezer and. So, I don’t know if this one looks like it may be a smaller, but anyway, I’ll check. Check it out Brett:can order, you can order five pound Jesse:Oh, you can. Okay, cool. Okay, good. I, I like stuff cheap Brett:I like to, yeah. It’s it’s not cheap. I spend, I spend probably 40 bucks a month on coffee. Um, But if you really like one that they send [00:55:00] you, you can, uh, load up your, your recent cause you rate your copies as you go, and you can order a five pound bag of one that you really like, uh, and get it set separately, get it sent separately from your a subscription. But, um, there is something to be said for this. I like it. If I make it myself thing, I, uh, like mushrooms, I have never liked mushrooms. Until I started cooking them for myself and coming up with kind of processes for cooking mushrooms. And as of just the last couple of months, I can honestly say I like mushrooms now Jesse:Oh yeah. Brett:of hating mushrooms. Jesse:Well, yeah, I’ve always, I kind of like most food, but yeah, I definitely have almost as much or more fun doing, like I do the wine kit stuff and a lot, lots of process, stuff like that and the results. I don’t know if I can know [00:56:00] that they’re all, none of them are perfect there, but they’re all good. But the process is very fun and it’s, and also just the. Uh, I very much like the, the, the bulk having much, much of something. So if you have 30 bottles of wine that you’ve just made, or if you have a whole espresso machine and all the beans you want, you know, it’s, it’s very fun to have as much as you want. Brett:For sure. Noah, no extinction instinct. Jesse:Yes, exactly. Brett:All right. So if people want to, uh, keep up with your work, where should they find you? Jesse:Um, well, uh, Task paper, user forums is where, uh, that’s that’s the public place where we talk nowadays. Um, so it’s task, paper.com. And then if you go to user forums, that’s where you’ll get, if you have questions or something like that. Brett:and you’re on Twitter as Jesse Gross Jean, Jesse:Oh yeah, I am. Yeah, I haven’t, I kind of read Twitter, but I haven’t, I don’t post much, but yes. Brett:that’s funny because on the folding Tech’s website, it’s [00:57:00] suggest following year. Jesse:Yeah. You know, Yeah. Yeah. You know how those things work. Brett:All right. Well, thanks for your time today. Jesse:Okay. Thank you for having me. Brett:It’s been a pleasure. I hope we, I hope we get to catch up again in less than eight years and, uh, and do keep me posted about, about this new project of yours. Jesse:Sure. I will. And, and add me to the envy all thing and, you know yeah. Ultra ultra and the, uh, that coffee thing you said was there was a link or how was that? That, Brett:Uh, I will send you, uh, my affiliate link. So if you love it, we’ll both get something out of it. Jesse:Cool. Okay. Brett:All right. Well, have a great week and everyone, I will talk to you next week. Jesse:All right. Bye-bye.

This week’s guest is Christina Warren, senior cloud advocate at Microsoft. She’s also my co-host on Overtired, so consider this a rare crossover episode. Sponsor Mint Mobile: Cut your wireless plan to $15 a month and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE by visiting mintmobile.com/systematic. Show Links @film_girl insta/film_girl Overtired Rocket Microsoft Developer on YouTube Top 3 Picks Elgato Camlink 4k Reincubate Camo OBS Wirecast Tricaster mimoLive eCamm Live Visual Studio Code FoldingText 1Password Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter.

This week’s guest is Jesse Atkinson, a software engineer at Credit Karma. He joins Brett to discuss modern web development, keyboards, movies, and the rabbit holes of new hardware. Sponsor This episode is sponsored by: Uber for Business: Keep your customers and employees engaged and happy with vouchers for rides and food. Get a $50 voucher credit when you spend your first $200 at uber.com/systematicpod. PDFpen: The ultimate tool for working with PDFs on Mac, iPad and iPhone. Learn more about PDFpen and PDFpenPro at smilesoftware.com. Show Links Jesse Atkinson @jsatk Credit Karma scala Breathless put.io Synology keyboard.io Top 3 Picks Getting a financial advisor YNAB. Personal Budgeting Software for Windows, Mac, iOS and Android The Sopranos The Talking Sopranos podcast Deadwood Wikipedia: Grimdark Blood Meridian As I Lay Dying Hades The Last of Us Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Brett [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] This week’s guest is Jesse Atkinson, a software engineer at credit karma, and a return guests to Ben since about 2018. How’s it going? Jessie [00:00:09]Jesse: [00:00:09] Uh, it’s going really good. Uh, I mean, relatively speaking state of the world of interesting right now, but it’s going well. Good. [00:00:17] Brett: [00:00:17] standard response. These days is a really good considering. So you’re working at credit karma now. Uh, what, what kind of stuff are you doing there? [00:00:28]Jesse: [00:00:28] Yeah. I’ve been, um, my kind of like my history and I might’ve went over this a little bit on the last one. So sorry if you, this is repeat for you, but yeah, I started like in 2010 doing real old school web. Design like taking Photoshop, designing what a website would look into Photoshop document, adding up the assets, turning that into HTML and CSS and, you know, um, and I, and I, I do have a college degree, but [00:01:00] I joke that my, uh, know bachelor in computer is mostly used this. [00:01:05] Like it’s mostly self-taught because what I learned was like, uh, you know, How to do Pearl and how to do like PHP. And I didn’t end up using any of that. And it was very outdated anyways. And so I, even though I have a degree, I largely consider myself self taught, uh, and moved into web design and web design, and naturally grew into what we have now, or like things like Spotify, half discord, half, they actually run our quote unquote web pages, but they’re full on web apps. [00:01:37] So if you. We’re a front end web designer, web developer, over the past decade, you’ve naturally grown into probably warning, many different JavaScript frameworks. And, uh, every year it feels, it feels like you’re never off the treadmill. You’re never off the sort of mouse wheel of learning. And so I’ve [00:02:00] been doing that for a while and I got, um, really interested in functional programming. [00:02:07] And really interested in just, uh, anytime I get really comfortable in what I’m doing. Um, I’m like, well now I’m bored. I’m not learning anymore. And so I really wanted to dive into functional programming and that kind of led me to Scala, which is one of the Kings of, I guess, that world right now, um, very math centric kind of community, uh, And completely scared me. [00:02:34] I had never dealt with anything Java or the JVM, uh, that world just terrified me. And so I started looking for jobs in that space and, uh, really dove, headlong into it and have been there something like 16 months. And, uh, you know, I F I feel like I’m pretty, pretty good at it. Now I actually [00:03:00] teach the. Class now with the, at the, uh, at credit karma, like I teach the like new hire class for learning Scala and like here’s an intro to Scala and I’ve so clearly I’ve done something right there, but yeah, it’s a, it’s a radical shift from front end for sure. [00:03:18]Brett: [00:03:18] Great. You decided you wanted to learn not just a new language, but an entire new kind of paradigm of programming. So you will. I immediately looked for a job. [00:03:29]Jesse: [00:03:29] SI sort of, uh, like I was doing it on the side. I’m very bad at, uh, I have the rare and radical belief, at least in Silicon Valley world, that 40 hours a week is a lot. Um, I think that’s a lot of time personally. I don’t, I’m not, I don’t rise and grind. I’m not a hustler. Uh, you know, maybe it’s my. Well, I was raised Midwestern and you know, my dad, mum, both just worked [00:04:00] simple, nice nine to five jobs and, and whatever. [00:04:03] I had a nice life. Um, and so I’ve always really struggled. I’ve never been the guy to work all day and then come home and like crack open the latest coding book or like work on my side project or whatever. Um, I mean, you’re a perfect example of somebody who, uh, I mean, part of our friendship is like me discovering it blog and kind of being in awe of and jealous of how productive you were and all this tooling. [00:04:32] And, and, you know, literally as we talk, I’m looking at marked right now, like I have a marked open, you know, and so I was always very jealous of that, but I, I personally have struggled to. Do that in my free time. And so it’s always been, I need to, I need to learn on the job because there’s no way like 9:00 PM on a Tuesday. [00:04:50] I’m going to be like, all right, let me sit down and like learn Scala now. Like when it has nothing to do with my day job, it’s just not going to happen. [00:04:57] Brett: [00:04:57] So did you apply for a [00:05:00] job like that? Do they not like w w w the times I’ve interviewed at places like Google, they make you do like live coding tests. And you have to like, prove that you understand at least the, like, they didn’t care so much if I knew a particular framework, but I had to demonstrate competency with a language. [00:05:20] Uh, did you have to, did you have to learn enough to get through an interview process? [00:05:25]Jesse: [00:05:25] No, because so most places I’ve interviewed now. So when I had been forcing myself to learn to a small degree, but, um, when I interviewed, you know, they’re like, Oh, pick whatever language you. Or comfortable in, and then you kind of have to solve the, the sort of coding riddle that they put in front of you. [00:05:46] Um, and in this particular case, there were, you know, Hey, we have an opening over here and it was more, it was in JavaScripts or now everybody’s using TypeScript, but whatever, same difference. Um, and then, then make [00:06:00] also, but you’re more interested in this other job. And I was like, yes. And they’re like, well, I kind of had to talk to the hiring manager and be like, Hey, I’m a fast Horner. [00:06:06] I promise all. Oh, I won’t suck. I promise. Uh, you know, so they, so they liked me. I passed the interview. Um, but yeah, I did kind of have to sell them a little bit and it worked out and, uh, I don’t know, but yeah, it’s, [00:06:20] Brett: [00:06:20] really cool, dude. [00:06:21] Jesse: [00:06:21] it’s going on. [00:06:22] Brett: [00:06:22] I really, [00:06:23] Jesse: [00:06:23] Thanks. [00:06:24]Brett: [00:06:24] like, I appreciate first the, uh, the more laid back approach to Silicon Valley that is. That is admirable in my opinion, but the ability to get the job in order to learn something, I, I can respect that. That’s really cool. [00:06:40]Jesse: [00:06:40] Thanks. Yeah. I, I don’t, uh, I guess, I don’t know. This sounds so cheesy. I just, I’m always going to be a student. I don’t like, I think when I’m 65, I’m going to be wording something I’m not comfortable. I dunno, I’ve never been comfortable, like resting on my [00:07:00] world foot. You know, I have very limited, very, very small laurels, I guess, whatever a Laurel is, but, uh, yeah, I’ve never been like I’d have made it cool and done, like the idea of like going to school, your whole, uh, w you know, first 24 years or 22 years of existence, or, you know, for some longer in school is very intense. [00:07:23] And then getting up school and your first shopping, that’s often intense, you know, it’s very intense tense, tense, and then just completely shifting gears. So like, okay, now I am, I’m in my thirties, forties, and now I’m just going to not use any of those skills I learned and really just write emails all day, you know? [00:07:44] Uh, it’s not, I’m, I’m, I’m being a little glib. I don’t mean to oversimplify like a management position, but. It’s just not appeal to me. I don’t, yeah, [00:07:53] Brett: [00:07:53] Yeah, no, there’s a, it’s weird that managers get paid more than their employees. A lot of [00:08:00] times because the employees often. They don’t, they don’t want to be managers. Their, uh, their upward mobility is not about getting a management position. That’s a whole different, like, track to be on. [00:08:13]Jesse: [00:08:13] Yeah, I’ve, I’ve definitely been talked to a few times about like, Hey, what’s the next step for you? Are you interested in management? And you know, I do. I do think I have pretty good soft skills. And like I mentioned, like I’ve mentored some folks, uh, quite a bit and uh, like, Oh, Hey, you’re good with people. [00:08:33] You want to be manager? And I’m like, no, no, I want, I want to mentor people. I want to teach, but I don’t, uh, I’m not a product guy at all. Um, And, and so I couldn’t go to meetings and have someone say, Hey, you know, what do you like talking about the product and what I think for the product, I would be like, no, I want you to tell me what to build and I’ll go build it, but I’m not like a product visionary type. [00:08:57]Brett: [00:08:57] See, I think, I think that’s where, like I [00:09:00] always thought product manager would be a good career move for me. Like, I’m good at thinking like big picture. What could this be doing? Kind of thing. Um, but I had, uh, one of my guests is a, uh, a developer advocate and talking to him, I realized that’s kind of what I wish I was doing. [00:09:23] Yeah. [00:09:24] Jesse: [00:09:24] And free. I didn’t even know that role existed until about a couple of years ago. And. Basically every, every person who gets kind of popular or not every, but a lot of the people get popular on Twitter who are also suffer, uh, engineers. I’ll kind of look at their bio and they’ll be like developer advocate at Microsoft. [00:09:42] And I’m like, what is that? That’s so cool. You know? And, um, I didn’t even know that role existed and it does sound kind of like what I think would be a role I would really like to do, uh, cause it, yeah. [00:09:57] Brett: [00:09:57] Yeah. All right. So [00:10:00] enough about work. Um, one of the things that we talked about you doing in your free time is something called the cinema clubs, spelled T S I N E M a. Tell me about this. [00:10:13]Jesse: [00:10:13] Yeah, I, uh, it’s like, I, I always like have these ideas that I want, you know, I want to do this. I want to do that with a group of friends. It’s always. You know, some people are really great. They, they want to make a community that they create a thing, right. They create a website and they get a community and then they get a discord and a Patriot and whatever. [00:10:34] Um, but often that is like a fan to a creator relationship. And one that takes a lot of effort to kind of build up the fandom. And then two, there is always a kind of dynamic there of okay. Fan and, uh, you know, The creator or head of the whole show or whatever. And I’ve always been like, well, I want to do that kind of stuff. [00:10:57] But with my friends, like friends, you know, and [00:11:00] often, unfortunately your best friends in the world might not have the same interests as you, um, And that has always been a struggle. It was like, I, you know, like my I’m a big gamer and my best friend doesn’t even own a video game system could not care less. [00:11:17] Right. So that was just a piece that we can’t share. Right. I go, Hey, I’m this new game is awesome. You should play it. And he just, no. Um, so cinema clubs started out of that kind of desire where I had watched the movie. I’m a big, big, big movie person, uh, like. Uh, it’s just one of my biggest passions. And I had like rewatched the movie breathless, uh, French famous French film by Jean-Luc Goddard. [00:11:46] Uh, it’s, it’s important, you know, in the world of cinema. Um, as I say, as pretentiously as possible cinema, uh, and I wanted to talk about it. Well, who do I talk about it with? Uh, [00:12:00] amongst my friends. Right? Uh, if they have heard of it. Uh, you know, that’s like one, they probably haven’t heard of it too. If they’ve seen it. [00:12:09] They probably watched it in college when they were trying to like do the whole, Oh, I’m supposed to watch these important movies and they don’t remember, remember it. Uh, and, uh, you know, so amongst my friends, it’s like, they don’t remember it. They’ve never heard of it. Or, you know, the alternative is, Oh, I can go to an online form or like, uh, you know, whatever, go on letterboxed or. [00:12:33] You read it or something and talk to two passionate strangers about breathless and be like, Hey, this movies, you know, this is what I thought. But, uh, so I started this whole thing as an excuse to be able to talk about movies with my friends, uh, with a sort of eye towards, you know, what’s okay. Like what’s not. [00:12:57] Maybe don’t put Avengers on the list, you know, here, like [00:13:00] maybe what’s target some world cinema. Um, we’ve kind of deviated a little bit. We have done some popular movies, but for the most part, it targets foreign indie us are known movies and, uh, the format is every week. I think there’s nine of us now. [00:13:16] Uh, every week it rotates and. Uh, somebody will present, Hey, these are my movies and they’ve kind of, they invented this and I say, Hey, like my friends, I invited to this, uh, uh, theme. So it’ll be like, this week’s theme is, is, you know, uh, native American cinema. And they’ll present four films from, uh, you know, From native American directors. [00:13:41] And, uh, we all watch the trailers and devote and then whatever wins. We of course watch it the point that week. And then we discuss it, uh, on Sundays and it has been one of the most enriching things. And it started in, I started in may and, uh, it’s been kind of [00:14:00] a lifeline or just a nice thing to look forward to, uh, in the middle of both quarantine. [00:14:08] Um, and yeah, the during I’ll just say 2020, which has been famously a difficult year. [00:14:16] Brett: [00:14:16] Yeah. So do you find that this kind of a. Watch it on your own and then get together to discuss is a better than watching it together. [00:14:27]Jesse: [00:14:27] No, I would, no, I don’t think it’s better than my favorite thing in the world to do is to go to the movies with friends, you know, some new movie and then go to the bar after and talk about it. Uh, so no, this does not. Uh, this is not superior to that, but it’s kind of what we, what we have right [00:14:46] Brett: [00:14:46] Have you tried, uh, plexes group watch feature. [00:14:50]Jesse: [00:14:50] Uh, so this sort of segues into a different thing. So I, no one in the group even has the Applex [00:15:00] set up a situation. I recently very recently just set all this up. Um, you know, we’re all just normal folks with, uh, An Apple TV or something and just rent it or whatever the hell. Um, my one buddy, uh, Liam uses something called dot IO, which is sort of in, I don’t even it’s, it’s sort of like an in the cloud torrent slash streaming situation. [00:15:32] It’s a little hard to explain, but, uh, That has a group watch thing, but it’s not supported on Apple TV. So if you want to watch it at the same time, you have to get your laptop out. Of course, make sure it’s plugged into power and then airport to your TV. And I’m too much of a diva to do that. So, [00:15:48] Brett: [00:15:48] Yeah, that’s, what’s killing me about like Hulu, Netflix, Disney plus have all added the group watch features, but at least with Hulu and Netflix, they only work on the [00:16:00] laptop. And if you try to airplay Hulu to your Apple TV, it goes black. So that’s not anyway, like Plex is Plex is free. Uh, if you co-locate a machine on a good, like three terabit, uh, upline, you can, uh, just throw a torrent on it. [00:16:23] And then all of your friends can install Plex for free on their Apple TV, and you can watch together. And I’ve done it a couple of times now with friends and it. It’s almost better than watching together in a theater because you can have a text chat on the side and not annoy anybody. It’s fun. [00:16:42]Jesse: [00:16:42] I, I just went down. I mean, I didn’t even have a Plex, uh, account until about two weeks. Cause I’m like, well aware of flex. I’ve just never had a need. Yeah. For it. Like, um, I paid for every streaming service [00:17:00] under the sun and it was just. I I’ve always avoided, especially the past, I would say like the past sort of decade, like once I got like a job job and started making money, I was just like, okay, I’m done fiddling with computers on the weekend in terms of like, you know, the number one thing is like, I don’t want my wife to say, Hey, I want to watch this and be like, Oh yeah, hang on. [00:17:20] Let me, let me open up my laptop and like configure a bunch of settings. You know, she wants to, she wants to take the Apple remote, click two buttons and be watching, you know, Whatever. And so, uh, and I don’t want to do that either. And so we started paying for all the streaming services and recently we kind of had a reckoning because we were basically, it was more than a cable bill and I was like, this is stupid. [00:17:46] And so we got, we went the flex route. [00:17:49] Brett: [00:17:49] Yeah. Um, well, I guess you’ll do what you’re going to do, but I do recommend it. Plus I heard you just got a Synology and there’s Plex available for [00:18:00] Synology. [00:18:00]Jesse: [00:18:00] Yes. So that’s, uh, I, I, it’s something I’ve eyeballed, but I’ve put off because I, again, just the, I knew I was, I knew it was going to be at, we used a weekend of fiddling. Um, no matter how easy everybody says it is like, I’m, I mean, like if I’m going to do something I’m going to like really get into it. And I knew like, okay, well, so when a Synology is not cheap, like getting it and then getting the hard drives and all that stuff and doing it properly. [00:18:33] Um, and it’s also a world I’m just deeply ignorant of. And so. I recently bit the bullet and got, uh, like I call it, you know, baby’s first a Synology I got the Synology two 20, so it’s only a two Bay, um, uh, a mutual friend of ours, those talking to about it was, uh, razzing me and was just like, Oh buddy, you went too small. [00:18:59] You’re immediately going to [00:19:00] want to [00:19:00] Brett: [00:19:00] Totally. I agree with your friend. [00:19:02]Jesse: [00:19:02] I was like, maybe, but let me. You know, when we have babies for Synology here, um, getting it set up is getting it set up is easy, getting everything the way you want. It is hard. And so right away, you know, I set up all the stuff and, uh, some of what, I guess, I’m going to be talking about peers. [00:19:29] That was a gray area legally. So, uh, I do not condone, uh, Theft in any way. Uh, you know, um, but yeah, there’s so many apps, there’s sonar and radar, and, uh, you start looking into use net, which confused the hell out of me. Cause I’ve never seen that. Obviously you look into Torin switch, I’m familiar with, but turns back the last time I was using them was in college and it was [00:19:57]Brett: [00:19:57] We should back up and for [00:20:00] anyone listening who doesn’t know what a Synology is? Um, let’s let’s [00:20:05] Jesse: [00:20:05] a lot, [00:20:05] Brett: [00:20:05] yeah, let’s explain that. Uh, in brief. I’ll let [00:20:09] Jesse: [00:20:09] I’ll do my best. So a, um, so. ISA knowledge. Well, I think Synology is a company first off, then I’ll just copy and make a bunch of stuff. But the primary thing that they make that they’re famous for is a Nass and S or a network attached storage. What this is for ideally is backing data up and redundantly backing it up. [00:20:35] Um, so if you have, you know, your computer for like any files you care about it’s. You, you put multiple hard drives in and you, there’s a setting. You can say raid one or whatever. Uh, there’s a bunch of different file settings I won’t get into, but you can say how redundant you want it to be. So let’s say you have [00:21:00] eight, let’s say you have eight hard drives in your Nass. [00:21:02] You can say, I want this to be backed up once. So that means you have four hard drives really that you’re working with. And then the other four recording. Or you can say, I want the spectrum twice. So then you really have to. Uh, hard drives that you’re, uh, working with, you know, um, or is my math right on that? [00:21:22] No, it’s not, but you get my point. [00:21:23] Brett: [00:21:23] I do. So, I mean, basically it is, uh, it’s, uh, it’s something like a Drobo, like a Ray drive, except with a Synology. It is network attached, so you can run and it has its own processor and it’s, you can actually run applications right on it to serve like media, to have a file sharing. And, uh, you can run your own, get server on it. [00:21:48] That’s where I keep all my, uh, all my local repos now is on my Synology. [00:21:54]Jesse: [00:21:54] Yeah. So I, I guess I want to distress that, like it’s what it’s intent in the same way [00:22:00] that you use net is intended for muse. Um, that’s analogy NASA’s intended for, you know, backing up your data. Um, what people really tend to use him for is yes. Back AP data. But, um, as you said, there’s a lot of really cool stuff you can do with it. [00:22:21] And, uh, just there’s so much cool stuff that you can do with them and a big pot, you know, if you go on YouTube and just type. Plex Synology, you’re going to get a million results of people teaching you how to set up a home media server. Um, you know, so one of the biggest benefits for me is just, I really wanted to be able to stream without using like the internet. [00:22:43] Like, I didn’t know, like we have really good internet, so it wasn’t so much that I was just like, I want to be able to have something where I can stream and like 4k and like, don’t even have to think about, you know, Uh, streaming speeds and all [00:23:00] that. [00:23:00] Brett: [00:23:00] So it kind of ties into the idea of, uh, owning your own data and your own. Services and everything too. Is that something you’re uh, that’s something you’re you’re you’re you’re cognizant of. [00:23:12]Jesse: [00:23:12] Yeah. Yeah. Like again, kind of the, it goes into the overhead of like, like my, my brain is always going at how. Why am I doing this? What’s the value in this or whatever. And so whenever I would hear people have snow, Oh geez. What were talking about it? That would be like, well, I don’t have that much data. [00:23:31] You know, back up my photos, my photos are backed up in Dropbox or whatever, and I’ve, uh, I used Backblaze on my computer. Okay. They’re backed up there. Um, So it was always that. And then two, in terms of streaming, like movies and TV and stuff like that, it’s just always like, ah, whatever, you know, so they take the office off Netflix, whatever, how badly do I need the watch, the office who cares? [00:23:52] You know, I would sort of just roll with the punches and, you know, I think having a show being taken away from me as a very soft punch, whatever. [00:24:00] Um, but yeah, it just. You know, like not to get too, like if you, if you go real extreme with this stuff and you end up down the, you know, total free software, open source, um, you know, Richard Stallman type world. [00:24:19] And I’ve definitely peered into that world. I’ve flirted with that world, but I’ve ultimately decided it’s not, not for me. Um, but you know, realizing like I have. Ben honestly, like I’ve, I’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars on DVDs and Blu-rays and CDs and vinyl records. So my wife and at this point, because of several moves and just trying to minimize, like, I don’t own any of that stuff anymore. [00:24:48] And well, why did I sell it? I sold it for space. I sold this cause like, you know, I [00:24:54] Brett: [00:24:54] Cause boxes of records are really heavy to carry when you’re moving. [00:24:57]Jesse: [00:24:57] Exactly. Yeah. It’s [00:25:00] like, you know, like how often am I going to get up and get, you know, a DVD out and go hook up? Doesn’t, you know, these are extremely, you know, I’m sort of first worldly problems, but yeah, so it was like, okay, I want my stuff to be as. Easy to use as it is to use Netflix, but I want it to be mine and I want it to, there’s no reason why the internet needs to be kind of involved, uh, like a local area network is well, but there’s a reason why the internet kind of needs to be involved in me watching a movie I own. [00:25:29] Um, and so, yeah, I got it set up and it is, uh, it is, uh, it can be a rabbit hole. And so I initially install, you know, I went through the apps and, uh, You know, buddy kind of helped me with that, but right away, I realized it wasn’t quite what I wanted. And I started looking into what I wanted and Oh, uh, right away, I got annoyed because I installed God. [00:25:58] What was it? I think it was [00:26:00] sonar radar. One of them installed motto and motto is a way to run dotnet applications on not unlike. Uh, windows machines, and then another app installed Python three. And I’m just like, I don’t want these on my Synology. So you start looking at this at all and immediately Dockers the solution. [00:26:23] And I am very familiar with Docker from my work as a software engineer, but I’m just like, do I really want to start doing Docker and like buy fruit like this? This is what I want to be doing is like debug, like SSH into Docker containers and. Um, figuring out what the hell is going on. And, uh, no I don’t, but so it’s a, the setup cost is high, but once I got the whole Docker compose file, exactly. [00:26:50] Like I want it and got it all set up. Now things are running like a well-oiled machine. And so it is extremely stream. We overkill extremely nerdy and [00:27:00] not for everybody, but once you have it up and running, you feel like a wizard. [00:27:03] Brett: [00:27:03] Sure. All right. Well, I’m going to take a break here and we’re going to hear from our sponsor, Uber for business, [00:27:11] all right. So what, uh, w a common topic that comes up on over-tired with Christina Warren? Um, Is is keyboards. And I feel like does someone who uses them must have a keyboard. [00:27:29] They love, what are you using for a keyboard now? [00:27:32]Jesse: [00:27:32] Wow. Um, uh, I am using, so I went on the keyboard rabbit hole and ended up on after buying several and spending too much money on it. I ended up on keyboard.io. Um, That’s literally the website keyboard dyo and the keyboard that I have was at the time, the only keyboard they offered called a model it’s just called model one or model Oh one. [00:27:57] I don’t know how you phonetically say it, but it’s written [00:28:00] models of your one anyways. Uh, they advertise because it sort of is I think it might’ve been kick-started. I don’t remember if it was kickstarted, but you know, it was definitely a community backed thing. Um, the makers are based near me in, in Oakland. [00:28:16] Um, and yeah, it is a, uh, it’s a split keyboard. It’s it’s, you know, if you probably seen a couple of those it’s it’s, but the keys are positioned slightly, um, in terms of like where your modifier keys are. And so like, Tab control backspace command shift, all that are not where they normally are. The idea being that your thumbs are probably better for kidding. [00:28:44] Your thumbs are probably more powerful than your pinky. So they put these keys nearest thumb. So that was a bit of a ramp up. But yeah, I, uh, it took me about a month to get used to, and now I own two of them and I can never go back. [00:28:57] Brett: [00:28:57] Wow. I’m a, I’m looking at them right [00:29:00] now. I remember seeing this, uh, [00:29:03] Jesse: [00:29:03] sold out. [00:29:04] Brett: [00:29:04] one that looks like a butterfly. That’s actually two pieces. Is that the one you have. Yeah. I remember when that was on Kickstarter. I actually, I think I signed up for that one at the same time, I signed up for the ultimate hacking keyboard and the uhk shipped first. [00:29:19] So, or else, like, I don’t remember how it happened. Like the uhk took so long to ship that I forgot I had ordered it when it showed up, but now it’s my favorite keyboard. [00:29:31]Jesse: [00:29:31] Yeah. Like you back something and forget it. And eight months later, you know, some [00:29:38] Brett: [00:29:38] it was two years. I think it took two years for the uhk to ship. Yeah. All right. [00:29:45] Jesse: [00:29:45] I’m familiar with it. I don’t know. I, yeah, I I’ve tried to get a few friends. It’s like, it’s like getting friends into coffee or whiskey or something like they have to have to be, they have to be in the mental state or they have to be like, okay, I am actually interested in this because if you just [00:30:00] start fours telling, Oh man, get this keyboard, they’re going to look at you. [00:30:03] Like you’re an alien. Uh, yeah. [00:30:06] Brett: [00:30:06] I note that it’s the profiles of all of the key cap seem to be very custom. So it seems like buying your own key cap set for, it would be nearly impossible. Especially these thumb keys that are around. [00:30:22]Jesse: [00:30:22] That I, I can’t, I think there’s some like FA uh, I should say fan, like community made ones, but yeah, like definitely kind of buying this keyboard it’s coming complete and they advertised it sort of as like. Hey like this is, they called it. I think like heirloom was the term they use, which is a little, [00:30:40] Brett: [00:30:40] Little pretentious. [00:30:41] Jesse: [00:30:41] maybe a little ambitious, but their idea was like their idea I think was, was, uh, and so if anybody’s listening, who’s involved with this project and I get this wrong. [00:30:52] Sorry. But, um, the idea was sort of like, Hey, you’re. You know, dad or grandpa might have these [00:31:00] very good tools that they used for woodworking and those tools are still valuable. And if they’re well-made tools, they can be passed down. Why can’t the same happen for a keyboard? Um, I don’t know if a keyboard can ever really last multiple generations, but you know, this thing is built extremely well. [00:31:19] And so I’m, I’m hoping to use it for, uh, until it breaks. [00:31:24] Brett: [00:31:24] I hope you get to pass it on to, uh, uh, a son or a niece or something someday. Um, all right. Guess what? I actually have two sponsors today. Yeah, I’m going to take a second break. To talk about PDF pen. [00:31:44] All right. Um, well that brings us to our top three picks. Uh, I assume you, you came loaded. [00:31:52]Jesse: [00:31:52] Sort of, uh, Hey, I, I came, well, I, I had trouble narrowing [00:32:00] down to three and so, I don’t know. I guess I’m going to kill two on the spot here. We’ll see. [00:32:04]Brett: [00:32:04] Like this, as I mentioned, uh, I don’t do my own, so if you need a few spaces, I’ll make room for it. Yeah. What’s your first pick. [00:32:15]Jesse: [00:32:15] Uh, this is the most, I think, of any tops or you’ve ever pick you’ve ever had. This might be the most boring, but I’m going to do it because it’s changed my life this year. Um, uh, getting a financial advisor is a pick of mine. Um, I. Hate finances and money, uh, stock market, that kind of stuff has always intimidated me, uh, in the sense of, I understand it. [00:32:48] Like I understand finance or whatever, it’s just, it’s, it’s deeply not unenjoyable to me. It’s like, it’s like doing surgery on yourself. Um, I like, yes, I understand how my. [00:33:00] Yep. I understand how my body works, but I don’t want to do surgery on myself, you know, in the same way that I, when I look at my money, I’m like, yeah, I don’t, you know, it’s in terms of buying individual stocks, somebody just will be betting on ponies, you know? [00:33:13] Um, so yeah, we, we hunker down part of the, one of the things we did in. The 20, 20 quarantine. And, uh, you know, we, we were hit, I was at financially, uh, you know, my wife was as well, uh, don’t go into that too much, but we were just like, okay, like, let’s tighten our belts here and, uh, get serious about finances. [00:33:34] And so we signed up for something called you need a budget.com or Y NAB as it’s called, um, which is like a kind of personal finance tracker. And. It is a thing you have to fully buy into fully, fully buy into. There’s no half day doing it. Uh, so be warned like, you know, it’s not for everybody. So you signed up for that and really wrangled our finances. [00:33:56] And then we got a financial advisor and, uh, he has been [00:34:00] wonderful and I’ve so much like looking at my bank account, even though I am financially stable and okay. It used to bring such anxiety to even sign in. Like I would. Feel a spike in anxiety. And I was like, I can’t do this for the rest of my life. [00:34:15] Like we need a fix. And I was like the fix. Okay. The fix is getting like an, a, a competent adult who specializes in this to advise me. And, uh, so that’s, that is my very boring pick. Get a financial advisor and maybe we’ll get, you need a budget. [00:34:30]Brett: [00:34:30] And go about finding a financial advisor. [00:34:34]Jesse: [00:34:34] That is a great question. Uh, so. There are tons of like personal, I think one’s called personal capital. There’s tons of websites and stuff for finding a financial advisor. The way I found one was talking to a friend. Um, and that’s it worked for me. I don’t know if it worked for everybody, but I had a friend. [00:34:57] She, yeah, it depends on your friend. [00:35:00] Uh, I have a friend she’s similar age as me. We grew up together and she’s buying her second house and I was like, yo, like we have similar jobs. I am guessing we have, you know, like ballpark we’re in the same tax bracket here. How are you buying a second house? What’s going on? [00:35:22] And she was like, Oh, you know, and kind of told me some personal details, but like, yeah, we’ve been working with this financial advisor and they’ve been great. And I was like, really, I would really like that. And she was just like, Oh my God, I’ll introduce you. He’s the best. Um, and so I talked to him and I talked to a few others and we ended up settling with this, this, uh, this gentleman. [00:35:41] And he’s, uh, he’s been doing it all over zoom. He used to looking at on the East coast. And so it’s been great. So how to find one, uh, You know, again, there’s tons of websites to help you find one. For me personally, I wanted some sort of personal connection and I also want in somebody who was [00:36:00] targeted at sort of financial security and growing, like keep keeping me safe retirement rather than somebody who’s going to be like telling me which ponies to bet on, uh, you know, I I’m. [00:36:15] I would love to get rich quick, overnight who wouldn’t, but I don’t, I’m not looking for like a day trader, [00:36:20] Brett: [00:36:20] Sure. Yeah. I have a financial advisor whose job for the last couple of years has been basically to grit her teeth and smile. When I asked to take more money out of my 401k. But hopefully that all turns around soon. She’s been, she’s been a Deere about it. She hasn’t made me feel like super, super guilty. [00:36:40] About eating away at my own future. But, uh, when I have more money, I look forward to letting her help me manage it. So what’s your second pick. [00:36:51]Jesse: [00:36:51] Um, by second pick, I feel like, uh, I’ve seen this on Twitter, uh, is people getting [00:37:00] I’m feeling with quarantine everybody’s for some reason, gotten into the Sopranos and. I am also a person who who’s re well Regan. So I watched the Sopranos when its sixth season was airing the final season, I was like, what was I 20 and 21? [00:37:21] I was like, okay. You know, it’s considered one of the best shows ever made, you know, and kind of kicked off this whole wave of big shooting. You know, this is before even like, you know, mad men and breaking bad, but I was well aware of, okay, this kicked off sort of. Does wave of important, uh, good TV. And so I like got all this on Netflix, like the DVD subscription thing, and I watched him and I liked it. [00:37:51] I struggled with it. It is a very hard show to watch because most of them characters are, uh, bad people like the weed, Tony. Like for some reason you [00:38:00] weren’t too like him, but he is ultimately a bad dude. He is, uh, Sexist. He is racist. He is homophobic is all of the bad things. So why would you watch a show about this? [00:38:12] Um, and it is such a damn good show and, but it’s one, I don’t know if I fully appreciated or understood when I was like 20 ish and, uh, so I decided to rewatch it, uh, Uh, you know, kinda starting one corn Dean started and sorry, started rewatching it and I’m about to finish it. And it’s just, uh, I’ve just seen so many people on Twitter talking about watching the Sopranos and falling in love with it over quarantine. [00:38:46] Uh, but coincidentally, uh, Michael Imperioli and Steve Sherpa who play, uh, Christopher Moltisanti and Bobby Backwell on the show started a podcast that also coincided with this sort of quarantine called talking [00:39:00] Sopranos. And they’re doing an episode by episode rewatch and that’s kind of been a. You know, pop culture phenomenon too. [00:39:09] And so I just recently started listening to that podcast. And if you are a fan of the show, it is just an absolute treat. And so, um, if you’ve, if you’ve never seen the show or it’s been a while, I would encourage you to listen to the talking Sopranos podcast and maybe rewatch along with it. It is just a journey. [00:39:30] Uh, but, but like serious kind of like, I feel like everybody’s just like, yeah. You know, uh, Yeah, I’m used to mature TV, but you know, Sopranos is, it’s a tough show to watch in terms of not necessarily the content, but the, uh, some really despicable characters and the show is filmed very neutrally. It is not telling you how to feel. [00:39:52] So you, uh, you’re in for some, some tough stuff that I think people kind of gloss over [00:39:58] Brett: [00:39:58] I will admit I’ve never seen the [00:40:00] Sopranos. I’ve also never watched the wire. Um, I am on my third time through the office and considered, uh, a peacock absurd. I was in the middle of going through the office for the third time. It’s it’s the show we watch with our kitten. And, uh, and then suddenly it was off Netflix and I panicked and, and got on peacock. [00:40:22] But point being, [00:40:24]Jesse: [00:40:24] We need to talk. We need to talk about your [00:40:27] Brett: [00:40:27] we can totally do that. Um, like I I’ve always the Sopranos and the wire, I’ve heard so many kind of, uh, uh, salivating things about, but have not like, it feels like an investment. Like, if I start, I’m going to end up like how many seasons of the Sopranos were there? [00:40:46]Jesse: [00:40:46] Uh, six seasons, but there’s something like 80 something, 86 episodes, because the sixth season was kind of too short Habs. HBO does this thing sometimes. Right. So they’ll have like, [00:41:00] uh, they’ve done this a few times where the do like an 18 episode season and then just kind of chop it into two halves rather than calling it two seasons. [00:41:08] I don’t know. We’ll get it, but whatever. Yeah. So it’s six seasons, but. Really more like seven, uh, yeah. It’s can we get what you mean? Like I have so many, I mean, I don’t watch a lot of them TV. Um, like I’ve still never finished breaking bad, uh, because the best show ever made, because it is, it is a big investment, but I also have to be having fun. [00:41:32] I have to be enjoying it and I started breaking out and I got into season three. Um, I’m sure. Some Whistler, another screaming, who’s a big fan of breaking bad, but I was just like the show’s missing. Like I am not having fun. I, this is subjectively well-written. This is subjective. We well acted. I am not having fun anymore. [00:41:52] Like, this is just miserable and, uh, yeah, like, so. [00:42:00] Yeah, for me, I need to have like, something like heavy, like a Deadwood is another example of a very heavy show, but I have fun while I watch it. Like, even though it is a very upsetting show, I am often laughing because it is hilarious and in the middle of all this darkness, and I need [00:42:15] Brett: [00:42:15] So I, the walking dead ended up like breaking bad. I enjoyed all the way through, but the walking dead got to the point where, uh, everything was just always so terrible. And anything that good happened was immediately going to be counteracted by something horrible before the end of the episode. And I just lost my heart for it. [00:42:36]Jesse: [00:42:36] There’s a term that I love called a grim dark. Um, and I don’t know what kicked it off, but I will, I will say Christopher Nolan’s Batman movies kind of kicked it off where. I think the wrong lessons were learned. Uh, and the perfect example of that is the then Spiderman the Spider-Man movies, not the new ones and not the old ones, but the middle ones with, uh, Andrew Garfield or like this gritty [00:43:00] reboot of Spider-Man. [00:43:00] And it’s like, no, you were learning the wrong lessons from Christopher Nolan’s Batman movies. People don’t like them because they are dark. They liked them because they are good. And Batman is a dark character and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:43:10] But people like dark things. Uh, and you’re like, no, it’s not, they like dark things. It’s that they like good [00:43:15] things. Um, [00:43:17]Brett: [00:43:17] I, yeah, I guess I’m hit and miss on it. Like I love Nolan’s Batman movies. They’re great. Uh, things that are like you say, things that are [00:43:27] Jesse: [00:43:27] Did they’re [00:43:27] Brett: [00:43:27] the sake of being dark can be a little bit, uh, tedious or, or emotionally draining depending on, depending on the product itself. [00:43:37]Jesse: [00:43:37] Right. [00:43:38] Brett: [00:43:38] All right. So what’s your third pick? [00:43:40]Jesse: [00:43:40] I really set myself up for this, uh, cause I’m about to talk about something that’s grim dark, uh, that I’ve also revisited God. I mean, I’m, I’m, I just dunked on myself. Um, I’m a big fan of, uh, I’m not a big reader and I’m a big fan of Cormac McCarthy’s books. Uh, the few [00:44:00] that I’ve read have radically. Uh, shook me and I’ve really liked. [00:44:05] And, and his most famous and beloved novel blood Meridian is probably the most difficult and upsetting read, uh, ever, and is widely considered one of, if not the best books ever made. Like if you start digging, you know, Google best books ever written or best books of the 19 hundreds or something, um, Blood meridians up there. [00:44:30] Uh, always. And it is a hard, uh, book it in a, in a, does a fictionalized karma it’s Cormac, McCarthy’s fictionalized retelling of what really happens of, uh, a guy named Glanton. He kept journals and he was a scalp Hunter. Uh, and that means that like, he was a sanctioned by the United States government. He, he went out and he was. [00:44:56] Him and a band of marauders. Uh, again, completely [00:45:00] legal in the eyes of the us government in the, in the 18 hundreds was a, uh, would go and find a native Americans and bring back, uh, kill them and scalp them and bring back the scalps for money. And this is something that we sanctioned and it is a book kind of, uh, kind of about that, but it is a book more about, um, What people are capable of and what we do to each other and kind of a dark look at us history. [00:45:26] Uh, and so this, this all sounds upsetting and it is, but there is a reason why it is so beloved and praised and talked highly about. And so I had read it, uh, hilariously on my honeymoon. I was on a beach in Jamaica, just drinking a drink and drinks, and then John life and reading this horrifying, um, you know, dark. [00:45:50] Dark night of the soul kind of book about, uh, some really dark, but real, uh, us history. Um, again, it’s a fiction book, but, but, but it’s depicting, it’s a fictionalized [00:46:00] account of things that really happened in this guy’s journal. And I re-read it this, this summer, and then my wife, uh, she, one of the biggest sources of the book or inspirations is. [00:46:12] Moby Dick. And as I, Wade dying, those are karmic. People always say, well, Cormack was really inspired by these two things. And I haven’t written either. And so my wife is a big fan of SOA dying and she still has her high school copies. So she was immediately like, well, you got to read this. And I said, well, you’ve never been ready. [00:46:26] And so we swapped kind of books. So I read as I was dying and she read blood Meridian and we’ve had a lot of, uh, discussion about it. And it’s kind of reignited my, my love of, I don’t know, clearly I like talking about. Like I like talking about things I love, uh, cause like creating, you know, after mentioned cinema club with my friends and uh, so yeah, I would recommend that book if you want to, if you really want to like, uh, Consume some heavy and good, uh, literature. [00:46:57] And you’re going to be able to pretentiously say at [00:47:00] parties that you’ve read blood Meridian. It’s good. But it’s also actually a good book. It’s, it’s, it’s really heavy, but it’s, it’s wonderful. And I, and I highly, I think there’s a lot of value in, in reading it and reading about our, um, uh, the U S as is the U S dark history. [00:47:14] Brett: [00:47:14] right. I have a question. What’s your favorite video game right now? [00:47:18] Jesse: [00:47:18] sure. Okay. Um, to be very cert well, I’m going to be very stereotypical. Uh, if anybody is listening, who is a gamer, uh, you’ve probably heard of Haiti’s Haiti is, is, uh, on everybody’s list of best game of the year. And it is so deserving of it. Um, so [00:47:40] Brett: [00:47:40] We didn’t get into a whole video video game discussion, but you, uh, you are, uh, a video game lover, a gamer, as they, as the kids say. [00:47:49]Jesse: [00:47:49] Yeah, I, yeah, it’s uh, there is like, if I read a book, watch a movie TV, whatever, it’s, there’s [00:48:00] no me in it. Like I’m just consuming. And with a video game, there is. I mean, there’s obviously the tactile thing of using your hands. And so if you’re a fidget person that can be appealing, I’m not, I, uh, but there is the like overcoming a challenge and especially when the game feels fair. [00:48:19] Um, I really don’t like easy video games. I don’t mean that in like, uh, like I don’t, there’s a term of games called, like walking simulator. Right. Um, You know, like Firewatch is a perfect example of that, where like, it is a brilliantly written game, but I did not have a lot of fun playing it. It was not my, I need a challenge to overcome. [00:48:40] And, uh, Haiti’s is I think one of the best, uh, yeah, th there’s been so much ink spilled about how good Haiti’s is, but it is one of those challenging video games. Uh, but it is also good. And typically you don’t get those together. You have. Video games that are kind of easy that everyone can play and [00:49:00] are good and have a difficulty setting. [00:49:02] And those tend to be the ones people talk about when game of the year. And then you have these sort of a cult games or indie games or sidebar games that, you know, people get into, but they aren’t written about in like, you know, the game of the year terms and Hades is that extremely, we’re a game where it is brutally challenging. [00:49:22] And everybody’s into it [00:49:24] Brett: [00:49:24] speaks to a, I think I have a very low tolerance for a game. Has to be exactly the right amount of challenging without stumping me or I lose interest immediately. I think that’s why I ended up playing mostly iOS puzzle games, not actual video games. [00:49:41]Jesse: [00:49:41] There’s, there’s an ego. They’re with me. I think what I’m putting in game and I die to a boss. I get mad and I’m like, Oh, come on. No, like I’ve played video games, the whole life. This boss can’t get me in. And I go back and I figured out, and especially if I die, [00:50:00] like. Three five times to a challenge or a boss. [00:50:05] Um, and as long as I think the game is fair and well made, which typically if it’s a triple a or big game, you know, it is, uh, then I’m starting to go, okay, what am I like? I start to analyze it. And you know, so it is a puzzle, I guess, in a way I’m trying to figure out what am I doing wrong? What can I learn here? [00:50:24] Um, You know, because if you keep doing the same thing and you keep dying or failing or whatever the game is, you know, whatever obstacle you’re trying to overcome, like, well then, you know, you can keep trying that and getting mad and frustrated and put the controller down, or you can try to go, maybe I’m doing this wrong and I need [00:50:41] Brett: [00:50:41] I only recently. Realized that people actually finished video games. Like I have all these games. I used to play at my friend’s house on like super Nintendo that I never considered, that people actually finished. Like Contra I didn’t, I didn’t, I D I [00:51:00] thought it was just something you played. I didn’t realize you ever actually got to the end. [00:51:04] And that was kind of, it, it was a revelation for me to realize, Oh yeah, there’s actually. There’s a sense of satisfaction instead of just frustration that comes from these things. But when you grow up without a video game console, and all of your experiences is being trounced by your friends who actually own the consoles, uh, you develop a different, uh, uh, different, uh, perspective on video games, I guess. [00:51:30]Jesse: [00:51:30] Yes. And like, I would say there’s a few things there too, like older. So in the early days in the Nintendo and super Nintendo era, Games are the same. The games are the dollar number, same price. They are now games are $60 or $50. But if you adjust for inflation, that is a much higher value back then, uh, that, that, you know, people were often parents were paying and games needed to last. [00:51:59] And [00:52:00] so one of the kind of things that’s often cited as games that were artificially hard, they were Contra is a perfect example of. A game that was brutally hard with the idea that it would last, you know, you would get your dollar amount out of it. Um, but for many people that was just deeply frustrating and you didn’t get past level two. [00:52:21] Um, and the other side to back this up as sort of arcades arcade cabinets goal was to make money. Their goal was to eat quarters, right. And so. There was artificial difficulty baked in. And so it wasn’t until in my opinion, it wasn’t until really the PlayStation era where games stopped being just, Hey, we want to be challenging. [00:52:47] So that you’ll feel like you’re getting your money’s worth. As you know, you started getting games that were telling, uh, richer stories and, um, you know, weren’t just trying to make you play the same [00:52:59] Brett: [00:52:59] yeah, I [00:53:00] guess I [00:53:00] Jesse: [00:53:00] and over again. Yeah, I was at, you’re not [00:53:03] Brett: [00:53:03] no, that, that actually, I, I guess I never realized there was a, a transition kind of a philosophical transition there that maybe I should get a video game console. Finally, I had an X-Box three 60 that I really only bought because it had the connect. And I wanted to hack on the connect and I bought Bioshock for it. [00:53:25] I got through like 20 minutes of Bioshock before I gave up on it. And that’s pretty much my extent of modern gaming right there. It looked cool. [00:53:34] Jesse: [00:53:34] Bioshock is a good game. It’s a it’s that it it’s such a Bret thing to buy a whole system just so you can [00:53:43] Brett: [00:53:43] I, I, I lost the X-Box in the divorce, so. That’s that’s a thing of the past now. [00:53:50]Jesse: [00:53:50] I, I will say, like, I’ve become sort of a Sherpa too. I have a couple friends, one in particular. He, he hadn’t [00:54:00] had a video game console since, uh, the super Nintendo. And he’s like in his late thirties and two years ago, he was like, there’s some game. Oh, it was the last of us. He’s like, I keep hearing people say, the last of us is really good and I’m kind of interested in meeting game. [00:54:16] Should I, should I get into it? And I was like, yeah, man, like, there’s a reason that game is so price. It’s, it’s a real powerful experience you should. Sure. And so he got into it and now he is a full on gamer and listens to, you know, Multiple podcasts and reads all the websites and files all these. And he’s more up on the news than I am, but, you know, he’ll sort of ask me like old school stuff. [00:54:41] So he’ll, he’ll, he’ll hear terms that he’s not familiar with and be like, what is Metroid veiny mean? And I’ll kind of have to explain, Oh, well this, and then he’ll go, Oh, should I go back and play those? And I can be like, yeah, that’s actually good and holds up. [00:54:54] Brett: [00:54:54] All right. Well, if I ever get back into, I shouldn’t say back, if I ever get into. [00:55:00] Console gaming. I will, uh, I will contact you and a couple of other guests who are avid gamers that know way more than I do and could probably get me over, uh, some initial humps [00:55:12]Jesse: [00:55:12] Yeah, it’s a lovely way. It’s a lovely alternative way to spend the evening [00:55:18] Brett: [00:55:18] if you’ve already been through the office three times and aren’t ready to start the [00:55:22] Jesse: [00:55:22] or whatever. [00:55:23]Brett: [00:55:23] Yeah. All right. Well, Jesse, where can people find you? [00:55:28]Jesse: [00:55:28] Oh, uh, so I finally, uh, one of the things they also did drink courting was make a website, uh, and then I haven’t written on it, but I do finally have a website now. So, uh, it’s J S a T K dot U S a. That is also my Twitter handle. That’s my handle on like everything GSAT K uh, kind of like a super shortening of my name. [00:55:51] Uh, so yeah. [00:55:53] Brett: [00:55:53] Yeah, well, the world would be [00:55:55] Jesse: [00:55:55] I’ll actually blog again. [00:55:57] Brett: [00:55:57] All right. Well, thanks, Jesse. Uh, great [00:56:00] talking to you again. We’ll have to, we’ll have to not wait what, three years next time. [00:56:05]Jesse: [00:56:05] Okay. It’s uh, it’s all I’m. I just love, [00:56:09] Brett: [00:56:09] Um, and thanks everyone for listening. We’ll uh, we’ll see you in a week. Yeah.

This week’s guest is Nikki Kinzer, ADHD coach and co-host of Taking Control: The ADHD podcast. She joins Brett to talk about ADHD coaching, the transition from organization professional to ADHD coach, and the joys of online grocery shopping, and more. Sponsor This episode is sponsored by Uber for Business. Keep your customers and employees engaged and happy with vouchers for rides and food. Get a $50 voucher credit when you spend your first $200 at uber.com/systematicpod. Show Links Nikki Kinzer – Take Control of Your ADHD facebook.com/takecontroladhd Taking Control the ADHD Podcast Pomodoro Technique Body Doubling Melissa Orlov ADHD and Marriage Top 3 Picks Untamed — Glennon Doyle Design Home Grocery Shopping Online Hello Fresh Green Chef Bravus NA Beer Misen knives and pans Grubhub Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter.

This week’s guest is Howard Buddin, a neuropsychologist and four-time guest on Systematic. He joins Brett to talk offer his perspectives on psychological health in and out of quarantine. Sponsored by TextExpander If you want to get ahead of your productivity for the New Year, TextExpander is going to be your new best friend. Show listeners get 20% off their first year: visit textexpander.com/podcast to learn more. BetterHelp BetterHelp.com, affordable professional therapy and counseling from the comfort of your home. Get 10% off your first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/systematic. Show Links @hbuddin SCNeuro Marked 2 Top 3 Picks Orange Micro Dark LEENALCHI Kite on Spotify Phillips Hue Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Howard [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] This week’s guest is Howard Buddin, a neuropsychologist, and four time guests on systematic. It’s great to have you back, Howard. [00:00:07] Howard: [00:00:07] Great to be back. Thanks. [00:00:09] Brett: [00:00:09] It’s been, yeah, it’s been about five years since we last talked. So I I’m going to assume a lot has happened. When we last talked, you had finished your postdoc, you had opened up, S C neuro it, I know that’s the web address. [00:00:22] Is there a longer name for that? No, it’s called SC neuro. [00:00:26] Howard: [00:00:26] just the neuro I mean, the it’s a short version sort of, of South Carolina. Neuro-psychology [00:00:33] Brett: [00:00:33] Yeah. I, I did put that together, so [00:00:36] Howard: [00:00:36] when I, yeah, when I was coming up with it, I want it, you know, uh, my, my wife, uh, a lot of what she does involves marketing, um, branding, advertising, et cetera, for small businesses. And so, you know, sort of by association, I I’ve adopted and learned a lot from her. [00:00:53] And one of the things is like, eh, make it easy. Right? Uh, you have, yeah. You have people who have these. [00:01:00] Horrible, uh, business names and emails, right. That just take you an hour to type out. And I didn’t want that. So yeah, I seen neuro [00:01:07] Brett: [00:01:07] anything with the word neuro-psychology and it would be unmarketable it’s just too hard to say. [00:01:14] Howard: [00:01:14] Yep. [00:01:15] Brett: [00:01:15] Yeah. So how’s the clinic going? [00:01:17]Howard: [00:01:17] Um, it is going, uh, it is going really well by most measures. Um, Of course with the pandemic this past year has made things interesting in a lot of respects. Um, we’ve had to adjust a lot for changing, um, like how we deliver services, right. Um, how we see patients, uh, in addition to keeping up with the. [00:01:42]Governmental and health insurance, billing Like it’s, it’s, it’s been a lot, but, um, we we’ve kept things running and kept everybody, uh, fortunately employed and, uh, had been able to keep, keep seeing patients. But, uh, yeah, we’ve [00:02:00] grown, grown quite a lot in the last five years. I went from a. Just one man operation more or less two, um, hiring on, uh, several employees, including, uh, opening a second clinic, uh, hiring a doc doctor, run that one and, uh, you know, fantastic support staff, office manager, et cetera. [00:02:23] So, yeah. [00:02:25] Brett: [00:02:25] that’s awesome. You guys doing a lot of, uh, tele health now? [00:02:29]Howard: [00:02:29] Yeah. Yeah. Um, in the, uh, early, early days of the pandemic, um, we, we almost Mo we, we more or less kind of shut down if you will, uh, for a couple of weeks and just did kind of limited tele-health as we were kind of getting that stuff set up. Um, and now that we’re sort of in the swing of things, um, we probably do. [00:02:53]Uh, I, I want to say like 70% of appointments are telehealth. Um, sort of [00:03:00] the unofficial rule is like, we want all patients to do tele-health and less when you’re calling to schedule the appointment, you know, if they say something like what’s a computer, uh, you know, then we’ll, we’ll, we’ll work it for an inpatient visit, but otherwise, um, you know, we try to minimize exposure like that. [00:03:17] And for in-office visits, they’re set up so that. We’re only, we only ever have one patient in the clinic at a time. Um, and they’re spaced far apart to give us time between patients to walk through the office and do, you know, grab the sanitation wipes and wipe everything down and, um, get prepped up for the next person. [00:03:37] So we’re, we’re doing our best, you know, to minimize the risk of transmission. Um, you know, of course being. Directly involved in healthcare delivery, like, and a lot of our patients being that in that older sort of more vulnerable group of [00:03:51] Brett: [00:03:51] sure. Yeah. [00:03:52] Howard: [00:03:52] um, you know, the, the risk is higher still. So we want to protect ourselves, right. [00:03:58] Uh, myself, my employees, as well [00:04:00] as, um, make sure that we’re not, you know, a spreader kind of node or vector. So [00:04:07] Brett: [00:04:07] So how have the types of problems you’ve seen, um, have they changed with the, the pandemic? Are you seeing more certain types of stress or, I mean, there are obvious answers to that, but. [00:04:21]Howard: [00:04:21] Yeah. The, the biggest one, um, as far as like, right. So, so people generally are going to be more stressed out because. Almost almost all at once. Um, all of the normal Moore’s of our daily activities and so forth, right. The anchors of stability that we really fail to appreciate, and day-to-day life were just sort of ripped out of the ground. [00:04:45] Right. Um, so when, when, when that stuff happens, right, people are going to get upset and stressed, but, um, we’re seeing in, and you’ve seen in the last couple of months, probably a lot more articles have been popping up online about the mental [00:05:00] health side of things, um, as a result of the pandemic. Um, yeah, that’s been going on here and I’ve. [00:05:07] Talk to other doctors or you know, of different, um, specialties around, uh, around and about. And we’re all seeing kind of the same thing, which is, yeah. People are coming in with really people. Who’ve never had problems before on the behavioral or cognitive side are showing up with problems. Um, primarily related to like attention and concentration and memory, um, and, uh, heightened anxiety and symptoms of depression. [00:05:35] Um, those are the big ones. Um, and without getting too, too long into it, you know, you know, there’s a, always a relationship between your mental health and your physical and cognitive abilities and health. Right. Like, it’s easy to think of, right? If you get the flu, you’re not going to be able to do the things as well as you usually do them. [00:05:55] And if at all, it’s the same thing. If you’re stressed out anxious, depressed, right. You’re not going [00:06:00] to be sleeping. You know, a lot of people have like severely disrupted sleep, um, that has an impact on cognition. Um, and so yeah, people just show up that are completely out of sorts or, you know, if they’ve been well-managed, you know, like with depressive or anxious, Um, conditions for years, it’s all of a sudden these symptoms have just blown up out of control [00:06:19] Brett: [00:06:19] Sure. [00:06:20] Howard: [00:06:20] it, it it’s, it’s the wild West. [00:06:22] It’s like hard to manage on our end. We’re kind of like, Ooh, [00:06:25]Brett: [00:06:25] Yeah. Um, the anxiety doesn’t surprise me at all, but the, uh, attention and memory is that, uh, correlated with anxiety or is that something specific to kind of pandemic life? [00:06:38] Howard: [00:06:38] Yeah, so good. Good. That’s a great, great question. At the best way to think of it is, um, Like like this. Okay. So we’ve got to pay attention to, um, things without him within, in other words, uh, if you’re driving down the road, there’s a lot to pay attention to, right? All the cars around you. And if you go to shift lanes, you’ve got to look over [00:07:00] and make sure there’s no cars next to you, et cetera. [00:07:01] Um, so you’re paying attention to what’s going on out in the wide world. Um, but you’ve also got to pay attention to the things that are in your head, right? Like you’re. On your way to the grocery store, let’s say you’re driving. Right. And you think like, Oh yeah, I need to also pick up some eggs. Right? So you’re focused on the stuff that’s going on in your head and, and the outside world. [00:07:25] Now, your brain is built to rapidly shift. Back and forth, uh, rapidly shift attention, back and forth, um, between, you know, whatever it is you need to focus on. Um, but what happens when your, um, anxiety kicks up, stress kicks up really high as he is. You’re more likely to spend more and more time worrying. [00:07:50] Right. Thinking, um, about what’s going on right now, or what’s coming down the pike in the future. And so you have this buildup [00:08:00] of thoughts that you’ve got to focus your attention on and therefore your brain you’ve got less cognitive wattage to direct, to focusing on what’s going on in the outside world. [00:08:11] Okay. Now the final piece to this is that. Um, if you’re not focused on something, um, then it’s unlikely, uh, are the chances that it makes it whatever it is going on. The chances that makes it into memory are significantly reduced. Right. Um, you know, it’s like if I, if I asked my kids, even, I’ll say like, remember to put your plates away. [00:08:35] Uh, after you eat and if they’re watching TV then, or they go, Oh, okay. Okay. Right. And I’ll say, what did I just say? And they’ll even characterize it as a memory thing. Oh, I don’t remember. Right. But really they just weren’t paying attention. Right. So it looks like walks, like sounds like a memory problem. [00:08:52] Um, But in fact, in so many cases, um, it’s a focus thing and the focus problem [00:09:00] comes from being just overwrought, overcome overwhelmed, um, with, with worry and concern for all these things we’re trying to manage as adults, uh, that normally come to us, if not automatically than easily enough. Um, But, but like I said, you know, all those normal sort of, um, rituals and things we do would do and, and rely on, um, w we can’t do those things as well. [00:09:23] If at all right now, [00:09:25] Brett: [00:09:25] so I’m not asking you to, to give any medical advice, but what kinds of things would you say in general, the population who by and large are suffering from heightened anxiety? What kind of stuff is good? What kind of mindful stuff. Can you do to kind of deal with life right now? [00:09:47]Howard: [00:09:47] Oh man. Yeah, that’s the wild West part I was talking about earlier. Um, you know, because it does vary so much from person to person, but Jen generally, um, I would [00:10:00] say, you know, number one, just kind of like being, um, w two use use the exact unit term mindfulness, right? Um, Mo most adults are, uh, pretty, not great at being mindful. [00:10:14] Um, which is to say turning, you know, the turning the focus inward and saying like, well, how am I doing in this situation? Right. You know, we tend to be thinking about like, what do I need to do here, here, here. Um, but paying attention to yourself and noticing like, Hey, you know, I’m. Boy, you know, I sure am like more irritable, right? [00:10:35] I’m like snapping at people and that’s just not me. Right. Um, it is kind of a good step one. Um, you know, recognizing when you’re under stress, uh, and acknowledging that, right. Um, paying attention to that, um, because the, a that’s going to impact everything around you, right. It’s gonna affect, you know, family members, coworkers, et cetera. [00:10:56] Um, so be being aware of that and not, [00:11:00] um, Being, uh, uh, not, not being hesitant or afraid to, to reach out and seek some additional help, whether it’s from your primary care doctor or, um, a therapist or counselor or something like that. Cause I’ll, I’ll tell you if there’s one, as far as healthcare delivery goes, if there’s one good thing, that’s come out of this pandemic. [00:11:22] Um, it is that the, with, with telehealth being fairly ubiquitous now, um, The, for people to be able to access, you know, kind of like individual counseling services or something like that is a lot easier than it used to be. Right. Cause you don’t have to like carve out time to drive out, to go see a counselor or a therapist they’re all online now. [00:11:44] They all have it all, but you know, if they want to stay in business, um, they’ve got tele-health services set up. So I would say something like that would be a, you know, a good first start. Um, it, you know, if, if it’s something that’s manageable for you. [00:11:58] Brett: [00:11:58] Yeah. I just went to my, [00:12:00] anyone who listened to last week’s episode will know that, um, Better help started sponsoring my podcasts and they do online psychiatry and I’m not being paid this week to talk about it. But I did go to my first therapy session, like in my life through them. And yeah, it was really like, I don’t know if I would have gone, like I’m not motivated to go out and set up an appointment, sit in a waiting room, go to someone’s office. [00:12:30] But if I can do it from my home, Yeah, that is great for me. [00:12:35] Howard: [00:12:35] Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, like I, especially for young adults who maybe have like kids and a job and all this right. A lot going on, they’re already, they’re already time limited. Um, I was, uh, you know, I, I’ve always been really hesitant to, um, Refer them out for therapy or to recommend therapy because it’s like, look, you’re, you’re already busy. [00:12:58] Like, what am I going to do? Like [00:13:00] tell you that the fix is a stack, something else on top. Like, even if I think it might be beneficial, um, that, that in itself can still, you know, be, be a lot to ask somebody to take on. But exactly, like you said, like now you don’t have to do all that stuff. Right. Um, and even, you know, there’s, I think, I think everybody could probably benefit at some point. [00:13:21] From like a single therapy session, even. Right. And just to like walk in or, or, or, or set up an appointment just to say, Hey, uh, I just need to, um, open this pressure release valve for, you know, 45 minutes and, uh, you know, to somebody who’s a, an unbiased uninvested third-party right. Like there’s some cathartic value in that. [00:13:41] There’s some therapeutic value in that. [00:13:42] Brett: [00:13:42] Yeah, that’s, that’s exactly what I found turns out. It’s a good thing. [00:13:48] Howard: [00:13:48] Yeah. [00:13:49] Brett: [00:13:49] so as a result of anxiety and depression, and the sudden shift to work from home, uh, productivity has become, [00:14:00] um, Uh, heightened and in my opinion, not necessarily healthy focus for a lot of people that are struggling to find their footing in a changing landscape of work right now. [00:14:14] Um, have, so one of the topics that, uh, that comes up and that I know you have some feelings on is the idea of multitasking. And, uh, in general, what is your, your, can we multitask? [00:14:31]Howard: [00:14:31] right. So the short answer to that question is no. Um, but I’ll give you a little more that this goes directly back. So, so first of all, let me, let me add to that and just say like, yeah, as far as like what I’m seeing clinically, um, to go back to that question, the, um, Boy. I, I would say the majority of people I’m seeing at least of people that are gainfully employed, right. [00:14:59] That aren’t retired or [00:15:00] whatever. Um, that productivity piece, I mean, I am seeing it in droves these days is probably the, I dunno, majority of things I see. Yeah. Um, who are having problems with. Work productivity, uh, staying on top at home, et cetera. So back to multitasking, at least the way that people normally think of it, right, is doing two or more things at once. [00:15:29] Right. Um, and like, like I was mentioning earlier, you know, your brain is wired to switch attention back and forth rapidly really, really quickly and efficiently. Right. Or efficiency being the right speed plus accuracy equals efficiency. Right. Um, so your brain is built to do that really efficiently. Um, but what your brain can’t. [00:15:50] Slash won’t do is dedicate a hundred percent of focus to two things simultaneously. It can’t be done. Right. [00:15:59] Brett: [00:15:59] yeah, [00:16:00] that makes mathematical sense. Sure. [00:16:02] Howard: [00:16:02] yeah, it would be akin to too, like I know analogies are often drawn between the brain and computers and they’re usually like much more flawed, I think, than what people realize. But if we can make that analogy for just a second, it, it would be, um, Uh, similar to, um, you know, simultaneous processing and, uh, a single core kind of processor, right? [00:16:24] Like it’s not actually happening. It’s, it’s doing the same thing. It’s swapping really, really quickly. Um, so your brain can’t do that. So we want to, you know, as I tell patients, right, like when you leave the office today, you’re going to be disabused of this notion of multitasking. Um, cause it doesn’t work and you’re just going to end up, um, You know, splitting your attention too much, trying to do too many things. [00:16:49] Uh, and instead of trying to get lots and lots and lots of stuff done, right, it’s a skill. Uh, you want to try to be able to zero in on one thing and do it to the best of your ability to see that through to completion [00:17:00] before you begin something else. Um, but, but [00:17:04] Brett: [00:17:04] what do you say to people who are suddenly facing with working in an environment where they have kids around? They have, uh, they have zoom calls going on while they’re trying to do work. Uh, whatever additional, like for me, office work was more distracting than anything that happened at home. But I don’t have kids and I’ve always had a quiet office and it’s always been a safe space for me. [00:17:28] And I know that a lot of people working from home are faced with almost a need to multitask. Now [00:17:35]Howard: [00:17:35] Yep. Um, boy. Yeah. The worst thing I could do is like pitch some sort of vibe, our, you know, disconnected solution and say like, well, you know, what you need to do is make sure you’re not interrupted, ended up. Right. It’s like you say, people are forced right. Effectively to, um, adopt, uh, or rather alter. How they do things because they’ve got kids at [00:18:00] home or, or, um, you know, they they’re forced to change their work because they can’t go into the office and the, you know, the normal support staff or, or mechanisms are gone. [00:18:10] Right. And, um, they they’ve got. All this stuff going on. And th the man that, that the simplest answer is, is that, you know, sometimes I’m just sitting there, like, how am I supposed to solve this problem? You know, it’s a boots on the ground thing. Um, in other words, like it can be so different from one person to the next that there’s not a good universal solution for it. [00:18:33] Um, there, um, what I tend to. You know, on the clinical side, what I tend to look for, um, uh, is, is more of these, um, symptomatic or clinical kind of changes, like a big one, probably the most common one is, um, People’s sleep has just thrown completely off balance. Um, either cause they’re trying to stay up [00:19:00] later to get more done or they can’t fall asleep because that anxiety piece we talked about earlier, right? [00:19:05] Like anxiety is a super common disruptor of sleep. Right. Cause you lay down, you lay down in bed and um, All the things you kind of had competing with your attention all day long are gone those outside environmental things, right. You’re just sort of left there with the internal things to attend to. In other words, your thoughts, right. [00:19:24] And so there’s kind of spiral spin up. It’s like the hamster wheel. Um, and it keeps people from being able to fall asleep and, or, um, has the, you know, waking up they’re up and down during the night, uh, you know, just waking up like a shot. With worry about what they need to do tomorrow that didn’t get done today. [00:19:42] Um, so kind of zeroing on things that I can address like that, right? Like maybe we need to recommend, um, some kind of a medication intervention to help with sleep. Um, Yeah, maybe it’s something as simple as saying like, all right, you know, you carve out some [00:20:00] time, half an hour to go on, do some exercise or a walk, right. [00:20:04] Um, to help out with that and to help with stress relief. Um, but yeah, I tend to focus more on those clinical pieces that the symptoms of, um, cognitive or behavioral change. As opposed to being able to, I mean, I would be overwhelmed. I mean, there’s no way, you know, we can solve those pragmatic problems. Um, but yeah, can offer some more practical solutions in addition to the clinical stuff, like, okay. [00:20:33] You know, to the best of your ability, try not to have, you know, a Skype call going on one end and, you know, TPS reports on the other, uh, uh, and, um, But, but yeah, at the end of the day, it’s man, that’s it that’s been one of the hardest pieces to, to address over the past several months is trying to offer some kind of, um, case-by-case help. [00:20:58] But, [00:20:59] Brett: [00:20:59] Yeah, [00:21:00] so basically single task, as much as you’re able to, but. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. [00:21:06] Howard: [00:21:06] Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then kind of like, you know, I, I, I’ve heard David Sparks use the, uh, expression. Right. You know, sometimes you’ve, you’ve got 15 gallons of water in a 10 gallon bucket. Right. Like what are you going to do? Um, in, in, in some of these cases, really like one of the, like people really so often whether they come into the doctor or talking to a friend, um, what they’re really looking for is validation. [00:21:33] Right. Like they, they want somebody to say, like, that sucks. I’m really sorry to hear that. Right. Like that’s. That’s powerful medicine. Right? Um, like we, sometimes we don’t want people to offer solutions. Right. We like to offer a solution to a problem they’ve never had, you know, we just need somebody to say like, man, I, I feel for you. [00:21:56] Right. That, that sounds like that’s really hard. Um, [00:22:00] so, you know, in addition to everything else, I mean, you know, offering that validation, right. And it’s not forced. I mean, I’m not like phoning it in. It’s like, I really feel bad for him because, Hey, I’m facing a lot of these challenges on my end. Right. Um, I mean, I’m working, I go home, uh, in the evenings and, um, have some dinner and help put the kids to bed and everything. [00:22:22] And then usually I’m, I’m back in the office, uh, at nine o’clock or so, and for another couple of hours where the work [00:22:30] Brett: [00:22:30] yeah. [00:22:31] Howard: [00:22:31] and it’s how I manage it. [00:22:32] Brett: [00:22:32] Yeah, we, uh, overtired listeners will know this already, but, uh, we had a kitten that we had for about nine months that we had to, uh, get FIP and we had to put it to sleep. And that was. Like one of the hardest euthanasia’s I’ve ever been through. And honestly, out of the outpouring of support, you know, where I, where I mentioned it on social media, uh, the things that mattered the [00:23:00] most to me, the things that, that felt the best were people that just said, Oh, wow. [00:23:05] That’s, that’s horrible. That sucks. [00:23:08] Howard: [00:23:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don’t, you really don’t want to hear the, um, everything happens for a reason [00:23:16] Brett: [00:23:16] Oh, yeah. Rainbow bridge stuff. No, [00:23:19] Howard: [00:23:19] Right, right. And there’s actually even been some research around that. Um, I think it was, uh, uh, the researchers followed a group of, um, people going through cancer treatment. And, um, and they were looking at, you know, what kind of things were helpful when talking to providers or family members or whatever, and yeah. [00:23:38] Even if at first it’s something that you think you want, it’s like, after a while, you know, the research shows us in this study, it was like, it wears on people quickly. Right? Like, I don’t want to hear that things happen for a reason. Right. I’m sick. Uh, um, yeah. You want that validation? [00:23:54]Brett: [00:23:54] So let’s switch gears and, and talk about, uh, lightsabers. [00:24:00] [00:24:00] Howard: [00:24:00] Okay. [00:24:01] Brett: [00:24:01] Tell me, tell me a story about lightsabers. [00:24:03]Howard: [00:24:03] Um, so I am a, card-carrying died in the wool, you know, long standing. Star Wars nerd. Right? I have, in fact, in my, I have a couple of star Wars art things here in my, my clinic office. And, uh, even a trashcan that I got when I was eight years old returned to the Jedi. Uh, um, and so a few years ago, um, my wife and kids and I, we went down to Disney and, um, On on the way out. [00:24:35] Uh, I picked up a one of these, uh, Hasbro licensed, you know, kind of more or less screen, accurate replicas of, uh, a lightsaber. And, um, just by my nature, uh, I like, I. Can’t leave things alone. I have a, uh, an array of tools. Like I like tinkering with stuff and, and always have ever since I was a little kid, right. [00:24:56] I’d take my toys apart. Um, so what am I going to [00:25:00] do right within a couple of months? Um, I’m I ripped the lightsaber apart and, uh, go online and start looking at like, um, You know, hacking and customizing these things and there’s a whole community, uh, as you might imagine, right? Uh, uh, probably unsurprisingly there’s, uh, uh, uh, you know, I guess relatively, anyways, a large community of people who do this stuff, either hobbyists or people who, you know, do it as they’re living. [00:25:26] Right. Um, and, uh, so I started doing a lot of research and, um, Kind of got it back together, but in a way that was heavily customized. Right. And from there I started like started, um, down the track to where I am now, which is like, I’ll, um, I don’t have like a lay there, a CNC or anything, so I can’t build my own hilt. [00:25:48] So I ordered the, uh, like I’ll order the machine Hilts and, um, get, uh, get parts together. Some of them are like 3d printed. Um, but, uh, I. [00:26:00] Install it with this, um, an Arduino board, uh, this guy, uh, Frederick Cuban that, um, was the sort of creator of these things are made in small batches, but they’re just these little Arduino boards basically that you can use, um, to power the whole thing. [00:26:17] Uh, and, uh, you can customize the code. Like you’ve got to compile it and install it, right. Upload it, using the R um, Arduino. Uh, ID, um, but you can, you can make it do just amazing things. Uh, so like the blades that she’s put in there, they’re, uh, they use Neo pixel, uh, for the lighting. And I think the blades I’ve been making have, Oh gosh, a little under 280 individual pixels. [00:26:47] Um, in there, so it’s like, you can make it right. So like, when it turns on, it kind of extends outward, like it does in the movies. Right. But, but you can program it to do anything, right. Like, you know, rainbow kind of, [00:27:00] uh, flowing along the blade or, or, uh, mimics like clashes and, uh, like, uh, blast or bolt blocks, like all the things that you see them do in the movie you can make with that. [00:27:12] Um, so it’s just really fun. It’s a good, um, Like, I always have some kind of hobby going. I usually switch every couple of years, I’ll go in like full force and then switch to something else. Um, but, uh, it’s a good way at the end of the day, like with the little free time I have to kind of go home and after, you know, the kids are in bed or something like that, go out there and, and tweak and work on it. [00:27:34] Um, I have, uh, really refined my soldering skills. I’m a Ninja with a soldering iron now. Um, these are incredibly like tiny pads. You’ve got to get and super, super small gauge wiring, but, uh, I just got a new one in the mail last week. So I’m excited to start getting to work on that. [00:27:54] Brett: [00:27:54] Have you ever seen these toys that, uh, you, you they’re like lights that you [00:28:00] wave through the air and in the kind of after trail, it spells words. [00:28:05] Howard: [00:28:05] Yeah, you can do that with these. [00:28:07] Brett: [00:28:07] that would be amazing. [00:28:09] Howard: [00:28:09] Yeah. Some, some dude, uh, I’ve only, I, I think I’ve only seen one of the videos where, um, some guy did it where, when he waved it back and forth. Yeah. It would spell out star Wars. Yeah. [00:28:21]Brett: [00:28:21] You could make it, do the opening crawl. That would be amazing. [00:28:24] Howard: [00:28:24] That would be intense. Yes. [00:28:27] Brett: [00:28:27] So, so do you find, uh, picking up new skills, like, uh, soldering for example, do you find that beneficial overall to your kind of cognitive mental health? [00:28:39]Howard: [00:28:39] Um, yeah. Yeah. So if we separate out cognitive and mental health, actually into two separate pieces. Right. Um, and, and so, you know, like I said, on the mental health side, it’s good at the end of the day, just to kind of switch off and do something different. Um, but also like on the cognitive side of things, I [00:29:00] guess there’s a couple of points there, like, as you. [00:29:03] Probably have experienced or might be fully aware of, right. There might be a problem that you’ve just been slaving over and you can’t solve it. Right. Um, you, you, you get to a point of diminishing returns and you’re like, I’m getting nowhere and frustrated and all this. And, and so often the best medicine is to walk away and, you know, do something else. [00:29:22] And the problem just sort of. Boom. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, you know, good for that. Just like switch off and do something different. Don’t keep thinking about these other things over here. Um, but uh, I I’ve come to, I was, I’m pleased to find out that, um, over the course of my training and of course, like ongoing, right. [00:29:43] We have to do continuing education, um, in order to. One keep up current with the latest and greatest knowledge to the benefit of our patients, hopefully. Right. Um, but, but, uh, also just for self edification, uh, along the way, find that, you know, uh, as [00:30:00] research continues to develop, we see that, um, in, uh, in, in that cognitive sphere, uh, that. [00:30:08] That people. It’s an interesting problem. I’ll characterize as best I can, but, um, there’s, there’s some good evidence that people who continue to learn new skills over the course of their life, um, are, we’ll say like less likely or less susceptible, uh, less likely to develop, um, Cognitive difficulties later in life, things like Alzheimer’s disease. [00:30:34] Um, right. And, and it’s, you know, we’re not sure if it’s like, okay, well, is it a top-down or a bottom-up thing? In other words, is the person already sort of predisposed to want to learn more things and new things, right? Autodidacts right. Self-teach self-taught um, or is it the act of learning the new thing itself that. [00:30:55] Um, acts as this sort of prophylaxis, protective factor against things [00:31:00] like Alzheimer’s that part’s not quite as clear. Um, but there is good evidence that, um, in middle a age, uh, you know, forties, fifties, et cetera, kind of adults, we see that the mastery of a new skill, um, actually might, um, promote the, uh, Like connectedness of a specific type of neuron in the brain that we previously thought were just like structural and didn’t do anything. [00:31:29] Um, so that’s relatively new stuff within the last five, 10 years, um, has really started coming up. [00:31:37] Brett: [00:31:37] yeah. Actually I was reading, um, There was an article that showed, I don’t remember what the article itself was about. It was about Alzheimer’s in general, but, um, it showed that, um, uh, people who, uh, switched careers, their brain scan could show so full on. Alzheimer’s like that big black area in the middle of the brain [00:32:00] scan and they would display no symptoms. [00:32:03] Like there was enough left and they had trained enough new neural pathways. Like it’s all kind of theoretical right now. They’re still trying to figure out why, as you say, but, but it it’s fascinating that that there’s that much extra brain that we could circumvent something as destructive as Alzheimer’s. [00:32:23]Howard: [00:32:23] Yeah. Um, The brain, I mean, just sort of broadly, right. Is a fascinating, fascinating thing, bang. Um, and certainly it’s what drew me into the field I’m in, you know, never a dull moment kind of thing. Right. It’s um, each, each patient is unique, um, and, and the, the, the challenges and changes that they manifest, um, Keeps you on your toes. [00:32:53] Um, but, but yeah, the brain is, you know, you see some interesting things, like, I mean, you’ll, you’ll see [00:33:00] imaging studies, I’ll, I’ll look at imaging studies that have been done and it, you know, there’s, the brain looks healthy, but the person, um, Behaviorally or cognitively is showing serious signs of impairment. [00:33:11] And then you get the inverse, right. Which is like you say, it’s like the image might show this really degenerated, uh, degraded brain tissue. Uh, and we would expect all these problems, but clinically we don’t see that corollary. Right. We don’t see the clinical correlated version. Um, the it’s a fascinating. [00:33:35] Fascinating topic. I think, um, you know, this idea of what can we do to help prevent it or stave stave off, uh, this cognitive decline. And so, yeah, if, if something like learning new skills, mastering new skills, changing careers, um, is a benefit then, um, that’s really, really useful, uh, useful information. [00:33:57] Brett: [00:33:57] Um, are you familiar at all with the [00:34:00] latest in the brain scanning technology that actually, uh, fixes magnetic sensors, like a hundred, some magnetic sensors to the scale? [00:34:09]Howard: [00:34:09] Um, [00:34:11] Brett: [00:34:11] It’s like a pet scan, but yeah, I won’t go into it cause I don’t have all the details either, but, uh, it actually uses, uh, some form of quantum computing to offer. New analysis of brain function that has never been possible before. [00:34:27]Howard: [00:34:27] so not off the top of my head. And boy, if we’re getting into, like, I would. I’ll have to go and see if I can dig some of that up because the quantum computing realm is in of itself still nascent. [00:34:41] Brett: [00:34:41] yeah. [00:34:41]Howard: [00:34:41] so yeah, the short answer is no, I’ve not super familiar with that. And that probably the best reason for that is that, uh, clinically like they’re there. [00:34:51] So MRI, for example, is a much older, uh, or is an older, uh, imaging technology. And, um, there are different weights [00:35:00] that, um, An MRI can be run out. In other words, like the resolution, uh, improves like the higher, the number of there’s T1, T2, et cetera. Um, and it was sometime last year, we on our listserv, somebody was sharing some images of a T 11 weighted MRI, which is like not safe for use in humans, basically. [00:35:21] Uh, but it’s this just, you know, I mean, just drop dead, amazing high resolution image of the brain. Nothing like I’d ever seen before. Um, but, but the point being is like the newer cutting edge research, et cetera, kind of techniques for brain imaging are the kinds that I’m least likely to see because we don’t use them [00:35:43] Brett: [00:35:43] Oh, sure. Yeah. [00:35:44] Howard: [00:35:44] Yeah. Yeah. So, but I’ll have to go I’ll I’ll [00:35:47] Brett: [00:35:47] Yeah, I was more curious if you were familiar with the technology, not so much, like using it in your clinic or anything. [00:35:53] Howard: [00:35:53] no, I’m, I’m not, I wish I could keep up with everything like that. Um, [00:35:58] Brett: [00:35:58] I watch a lot of [00:36:00] YouTube. It’s it’s it’s my, I don’t play video games. Uh, when I, when I need that distraction, I go and my watch history is such that, uh, Brain science and politics are always in my recommended videos. And, uh, I, I do enjoy, Oh, in history, like I’ve gotten really into, um, prehuman or like early human history, like prehistory, prehistory. [00:36:28] Like a hundred, a hundred thousand, 200,000 years ago, like studying, like what the world would have been like, uh, what flora and fauna and early, early man, that stuff has been super fascinating to me. And I’ve found like, it’s we go on walks every evening. Um, my, my girlfriend and I, and that’s, that’s how I want to talk about [00:36:50] Howard: [00:36:50] Check out. Um, your YouTube history sounds fairly similar to mine. Uh, but, but check out, uh, if you haven’t already run across it, I mean, I feel like you might [00:37:00] have, but, uh, PBS [00:37:01] Brett: [00:37:01] Ian’s yup, totally. EV almost daily. I watch an Yans video. Love that stuff. [00:37:08] Howard: [00:37:08] I did. Yeah. That’s a good one. I’ve got, I subscribed to that when, and [00:37:11] Brett: [00:37:11] I really should. I really should like sign up Patrion, whatever they, I watched so many of those videos, I should support them. They have t-shirts now. Get an Ian’s t-shirt. Yeah. All right. Well, if you don’t, I’m going to take a break to talk about, uh, this week sponsor one. I think you’ll appreciate, um, it’s one of my favorite apps, text expander. [00:37:35] If you want to get ahead of your productivity for the new year text, expander is going to be your new best friend text expanded, removes the repetition from your work. So you can focus on things that actually matter. Say goodbye to repetitive text entry, spelling and message errors, as well as trying to remember the right thing to say at the right time. [00:37:52] When you use text expander, you can say the right thing and just a few keystrokes. You, you save all of your repetitive tasks and you trigger it [00:38:00] with your own, whatever a short snippet works for you. Uh, it offers you flexibility and consistency for your communications. It’s better than copy and paste and better than scripts and templates. [00:38:12] TextExpander snippets allow you to maximize your time by getting rid of the repetitive things you type while still customizing and personalizing your messages, using things like fill-ins. Text expander can be used on just about any platform in any app, anywhere you type. So take your time back in the new year and increase your productivity with text expander, systematic listeners. [00:38:33] Get 20% off their first year. Uh, visit Tex expander.com/podcast. To learn more and a big thanks to smile for their continued support of my work and all my podcasts. [00:38:45]Howard: [00:38:45] right on. I’m just sitting here looking at my, uh, text expander snippets statistics. Right now. I get the monthly [00:38:55] Brett: [00:38:55] Yeah. Yeah, [00:38:56] Howard: [00:38:56] Uh, stats and, um, [00:39:00] man there, I forget most recent, but, uh, I think my most recent was like 10 hours saved the last month or something like that. [00:39:07] Brett: [00:39:07] See, so my, I, I do really advanced stuff with it. Um, I shouldn’t, that sounds like I’m tooting my own horn. I just do. I script, I script things. It accomplishes the stats measure. Basically how many words I typed versus how many words it output. [00:39:26] Howard: [00:39:26] Yeah. Yeah, [00:39:27] Brett: [00:39:27] But when, when I’m running a script, that saves me the trouble of like one that, uh, gives, uh, new licenses to Mark customers who want to cross grade from the Mac app store version. [00:39:40] So basically I can just type comma, comma, M L I C. And it will replace the work of verifying the, the Mac app store license, going to the paddle website, going to the license page, generating a new license, copying it, coming back to the email, writing [00:40:00] out here’s your new license. Here’s where you download, pacing it in and sending. [00:40:04] And I can do that with like five characters now. And it’s, it’s it. That saves me easily. Like six, seven minutes every time. And it doesn’t think it’s saving that much. So my report feels, feels undervalued. [00:40:18] Howard: [00:40:18] Hello lighter than it should be. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It doesn’t tell you that. Yeah. It, like you said, it just bases it on the, like, here’s what you did versus what you would have typed strictly, um, yeah. Between, I’m going to tell you like, one of the nice things about being in private practice is that like, And one of the driving factors behind that choice was like, I didn’t have to, um, or rather I could set things up the way that I wanted to. [00:40:42] And thankfully I have these like amazing employees who have been very careful with, I’m going to segue this into something else of interest maybe to you, but I’m, uh, very careful to not super foist my system. And way of doing things onto them entirely that said, um, they, [00:41:00] they do have to learn some new tricks as it were. [00:41:02] Um, but yeah, between Tex expander, um, keyboard, Maestro, uh, launch bar, right? Like you say, to execute these things that would normally take so much more time above and beyond just simple typing. Um, like I can’t imagine knowing how going through my training and knowing how other. Neuropsychologists and similar clinicians everywhere get their work done. [00:41:27] I couldn’t wait to start doing it my way. And I cannot imagine going back and doing it kind of the old way or the way that everybody else does. Like, I, I don’t know how people get things done the way they do Um, and um, if I can take just a, just a moment here, a minute, I’m looking at the clock, so I’m not gonna take too much time. [00:41:49] To make a case for marked two here, just for a second. Um, because I read, uh, one of your, I guess it was one of your recent posts [00:42:00] about the, um, transition over to big Sur, right? Like the w the roadblock you ran to about blurry PDFs and everything. Um, And, uh, my, my clinic runs off of all Apple hardware and, um, and I’ve got it all except for my computer. [00:42:17] Um, it’s all set up in jams. So like I have, when I read that I like immediately jumped in and changed my profiles to make sure that the operating systems would definitely not update date because I, I don’t know. I mean, I might be a little bold in saying this, but I would wager that. That collectively between all of us, we probably use marked to on a day-by-day basis, more than most people. [00:42:44] Um, because we generate my entire workflow. Like I scripted out with a bash, you know, kind of shell script that out my own, um, electronic medical records management system. And, um, it’s, everything [00:43:00] is text-based and, and everything that goes out into the wide world is a PDF. Right? So step one was make all my files readable and universal, um, because most of these electronic management systems use like proprietary file types. [00:43:15] Right. Um, and, and I didn’t want that, um, Previous result get into, but, but everything that gets converted into PDF from text runs through Marx too. All right. Um, so going all the way back to the script, right. That, that generates all the patient directories and everything like that. Like we hinge where we’re hinging on that. [00:43:37] So, [00:43:38] Brett: [00:43:38] I will get it fixed as quickly as possible. [00:43:40] Howard: [00:43:40] pulling for you, [00:43:42]Brett: [00:43:42] Yeah. That, that, that adds even more pressure. But I’ve already, I’m beholden to a lot of people who, who do, I mean, that is one of Mark’s best features is the PDF second output and how easy it makes that. So I [00:43:57] Howard: [00:43:57] right. Well, [00:43:58] Brett: [00:43:58] I’m struggling [00:44:00] my first, my first, my first solution. [00:44:03] Didn’t pan out. Um, so I’m, I’m working on another, I may end up incorporating something like Prince XML to do it now, but uh, got to deal with OEM licensing on that. So it’s coming, I’m working hard on it. [00:44:17] Howard: [00:44:17] Yeah, no, no pressure. Right? Like I said, we’re all rocking on Catalina for the time being. And I mean, I wouldn’t, honestly, since they’re all production machines, you know, I don’t tend to update the OS until usually at least six months out anyways. Um, and, uh, [00:44:34] Brett: [00:44:34] I’ll keep you posted [00:44:36] Howard: [00:44:36] I have faith. I’m not, I’m not worried. I have faith. [00:44:40] And, uh, thank you for making such a fantastic product. And we, and we do use the setup version. So [00:44:47] Brett: [00:44:47] no, thanks for the kind words and for the, uh, the continued support that that provides. [00:44:52] Howard: [00:44:52] yeah, man. [00:44:53] Brett: [00:44:53] All right. Well, that brings us to our top three picks. Uh, why don’t you go ahead and kick it off with your first one. [00:45:00] [00:45:00] Howard: [00:45:00] All right. Um, my first one is something we didn’t even talk about at all, but well kind of gets into the vein of having to switch off every now and again. Um, my number one pick is the orange micro dark, uh, Brett, you not talk before you’re, you’re a bass player. I’m a bass player, but, um, I got a guitar, a six string, uh, a couple of years ago and I didn’t have an amp. [00:45:22] Um, Since I’m not a guitarist per se, and didn’t really want to go out. And, you know, I didn’t have justification to sink a bunch of money into an amp. I did some research and found the orange micro dark. It is a, um, what they call like lunchbox style head. Um, the power supply is an outboard kind of, um, Not a wall wart, but it’s one of the like intermediary wall warts. [00:45:46] Right? Um, the, the head literally, I think it weighs just so for a pound and it’s a hybrid, it’s a tube pre-amp solid state power amp. it’s got three knobs, volume gain and a tone shaping control. Um, I’m [00:46:00] a big fan of like a minimal pathway signal pathway. Um, I have a couple of pedals out that I use outside, but it’s also got a buffer. [00:46:07] It affects loop, which is fantastic. Um, And I think it retailed for. Uh, like 190 bucks, it was under $200. Um, yeah. Yeah. And I originally had the little cabinet that’s supposed to sort of go with it and eight inch speaker, but I recently, finally, um, took the plunge and bought the orange, like single 12 inch. [00:46:28] And this thing is amazing. Like, I can not be in the same room if I have it even close to turned up. Um, it’s super loud. Beautiful, clean tone, great distortion. I mean, it’s just, uh, Miracle lineage, orange, [00:46:44] Brett: [00:46:44] That is good to know. I, uh, I, so the, the amp I used to use when I actually played out in that and was playing bass, uh, I, I pawned for drugs a long time. Long time ago. Um, so [00:47:00] basically I had just had this practice amp, uh, for years, and then kind of the advent of, uh, phone-based effects boxes happened. And I found like I’m not playing out. [00:47:13] So a lot of the, a lot of the playing I do is either into headphones or directly into my computer for recording. Um, so I haven’t haven’t needed per se an amp, but I have missed having an amp because sometimes you just, you want to play it loud, right? [00:47:31] Howard: [00:47:31] That’s where it is. Yep. [00:47:33] Brett: [00:47:33] Yeah. [00:47:34] Howard: [00:47:34] I was doing the same thing as you. Yeah. [00:47:36] Brett: [00:47:36] Yeah. Cool. [00:47:37] Howard: [00:47:37] Yeah, so, and it’s a good, it’s a good, like, you know, fairly economical, right? Like, especially from a bang for the buck kind of perspective. Yeah. So I have it set up in the back. I have an extra off a room in the back of my clinic. [00:47:51] Um, and I’ve got my like stereo and all my LPs and CDs and set up back there along with my bass amp, and now the guitar amp. And [00:48:00] so every now and again, when I’m here in the evenings or sometimes even between patients, I can go back there and crank up for a couple of [00:48:06] Brett: [00:48:06] rock and roll. All right. What’s number two. [00:48:10] Howard: [00:48:10] number two is a group. [00:48:14] Um, From South Korea. And I saw this only recently, I think it was a YouTube ad, but I, I know I saw it on TV also. Um, it’s like, uh, a tourism ad for South Korea. It was playing on it and, um, and, and this tune was just like, it immediately grabbed me. So I went online and dug it up quickly. But the name of the band is Lena algae, L E E N a L C H I M. [00:48:42] There. Band camp page I dug up, you know, started diving in and the band camp page gives a good description of them. But I mean, they’re, they’re not, K-pop, um, not, not like, you know, BTS and whatever. Uh, this is more like an old older school kind of synth based, you know, synth pads [00:49:00] kind of pop, um, and. I mean, I just, I was enthralled with the music, um, and the album, if I’m mispronouncing this, I mean, w what am I going to do, I guess is a [00:49:14]Um, but it’s, uh, the whole album, it’s like, it’s a concept record and it is telling this tale. So Gunga is a, uh, um, Uh, not apparel maybe, but, uh, a story. Um, and so the whole album kind of works through the, the elements of the story. It’s all in, it’s all in Korean. I mean, the lyrics aren’t translated or anything like that on through iTunes, but, uh, like I said, if you look on the band camp page, it kind of describes a little bit about that. [00:49:40] So, uh yeah. [00:49:42] Brett: [00:49:42] Yeah. Send me a link. I’ll check that out. [00:49:44] Howard: [00:49:44] Yeah. You better believe it. I will. [00:49:46] Brett: [00:49:46] Um, not having heard it. So this may or may or may not be related, but have you ever heard the band kite? [00:49:52]Howard: [00:49:52] No. [00:49:54] Brett: [00:49:54] you’re, if you like kind of haunting synth pop. Checkout [00:50:00] kite they’re on Spotify. [00:50:02] Howard: [00:50:02] All right. I’m making a note right now. If you can either keys, uh, um, I will. [00:50:08] Brett: [00:50:08] um, I actually found them because they came to play in lacrosse, Wisconsin. I think they’re from they’re from some Nordic country, but they had made friends with. A friend of mine who has a local band here, and they had come and played a show at the warehouse and the cross. And it was the first time I’d ever heard them. [00:50:27] And I was just transfixed, uh, delete singers, voices, a theorial and the music is it’s. Yeah, it may be one of those bands that like, I love because of the live show that I first saw them at. You know, how like you develop associations. With like, uh, the olfactory senses and the lighting. And, but, uh, but I think, I think he might. [00:50:51]Howard: [00:50:51] I am excited. I’m always, it’s hard to, I dunno, for a few different reasons. It’s hard to [00:51:00] discover new, like good music, um, for, for me right now. So I’m always like, kind of on the hunt. So I appreciate that and I will absolutely go check it out. [00:51:10] Brett: [00:51:10] All right. Number three. [00:51:12] Howard: [00:51:12] Uh, number three, um, I dunno, it’s kind of pedestrian in some sense. [00:51:18] And, um, maybe elicit some eye-rolling and, and others, I don’t know, but for me, uh, I’ve got it stable right now as the combination Phillips you home kit, um, like one and the reason I dig it so much and I, I S I’ve had it fairly stable and set up for over a year now, I guess. Um, But like, I hate overhead lights. [00:51:42] Right. Um, and, and my clinic, you know, of course is stocked. It’s just, nothing came with nothing, but the overhead fluorescent bosses, uh, which is, you know, I think pretty much everyone can agree. So it’s just categories of the worst lighting. Um, so I’ve got lamps everywhere. In the [00:52:00] office, right. Floor lamps, and table lamps and everything like that. [00:52:03] And it would just, I mean, this is first world problems, you know? No, no hate mail, please. Like, but coming in in the mornings, um, and switching on, I think it was a dozen different lamps here, right. Was just, it only took a minute or two. Right. But this was just like, ah, I be nice thing to eliminate. So. [00:52:22] Brett: [00:52:22] for sure. [00:52:23] Howard: [00:52:23] One day, I finally bit the bullet and went down to best buy and, um, and, and just started snatching up hue bulbs. [00:52:29] And I got a, um, a home pod for the clinic to, um, keep it running as a base cause home kit kind of for geo-fencing and so forth. And, uh location-based right. And you didn’t need a base going, but yeah. So now I have it set up where, when I pull up to the clinic between X and X hours, the lights. Are on when I walk in and they turn off, when I work out, I mean, it was my white whale. [00:52:53] Right. Um, and so that, and I did the justification because I realized how [00:53:00] much money I was spending on these damn things. Excuse me. Um, but, uh, I was like, okay, two minutes a day and dah, dah, dah. So it pays for itself after this time. Um, but that was a big, I dunno, that was a game [00:53:13] Brett: [00:53:13] So did you get whites or color or Hughes? [00:53:16] Howard: [00:53:16] Um, for the clinic here they are. [00:53:20] Um, there’s the intermediary one, right? There’s the one that’s just like fixed white and then there’s the, um, color ones, but then there’s the ones that can whew between like white and orange. Um, yeah, so I have that one set up. And actually I should point this out too, especially at the clinic. Cause I have it all set up at my house too. [00:53:39] And I have a couple of color ones there. Um, but at the clinic it is really useful because I will get some patients who have had. Um, a brain injury or something like that, or they have migraines and they’re photophobic right. They’re light sensitive. And so for those people, um, I can automatically, I can just say, Hey, you know, [00:54:00] uh, turn the lights at 50% or set this particular preset that changes the hue and the brightness of it, um, to accommodate those patients. [00:54:11] Um, and, uh, and I dig being able to do that, but, uh, yet at the house I’ve got a couple of car lights and like a strip around the TV, you [00:54:20] Brett: [00:54:20] Yeah, I just, I just got a, uh, kit. That’s supposed to be the LEDs around the back of the TV and then it plugs into the HTMI and it’s supposed to like chase the colors from the edge of your screen around on your wall. I have not had the, I’ve not had the motivation to actually set it up. I apparently paid for it years ago and it took them this long to ship the Kickstarter. [00:54:45] Howard: [00:54:45] no way. [00:54:46] Brett: [00:54:46] But that’s how so, how I got my, my better hacking keyboard or ultimate hacking keyboard. I, I bought it and then forgot about it. And then two years, maybe three years later they shipped it and I [00:55:00] didn’t even remember ever seeing the Kickstarter, but I got this keyboard in the mail ended up being my favorite keyboard I’ve ever had. [00:55:06] Uh, [00:55:07] Howard: [00:55:07] a nice surprise [00:55:08] Brett: [00:55:08] yeah. Yeah. So it’s kind of, it’s kind of like giving yourself a gift in the future, but. Yeah, no. Lighting is a huge lighting is huge for me. I, uh, my mood is very, very effected by even just lighting color. So I’m super picky about what bulbs I buy. Uh, the, the hue bulbs, the ones that are just in the white range from cool to warm, um, are all I really need, cause there’s really never a time. [00:55:34] I need like green or purple lights. But being able to shift from like a daylight down to a super warm uh, it’s. It it’s huge for my mood, so yeah. [00:55:46] Howard: [00:55:46] yeah, no, I, I do it here in the morning time. I have a certain setting. That’s the more cool blue and in the afternoons, I switched it over to the warmer. [00:55:54] Brett: [00:55:54] Yeah, for sure. [00:55:54] Howard: [00:55:54] Uh, yeah, no mission critical for sure. Um, uh, [00:56:00] I’m, I’m, I’m I’m right there with you. Yeah. I I’d looked at Phillips makes the, uh, an, an accessory product that allows you to change the TV color light strip, but it seemed impractical and it was like 200 bucks. [00:56:13] And just for the sheer ability to chase that color just didn’t. Yeah, it didn’t strike me as worth it, so, yeah. Um, yeah. [00:56:24] Brett: [00:56:24] Well, people can find you at H button on Twitter and, uh, S C neuro.com. Anywhere else you want to mention. [00:56:33]Howard: [00:56:33] Um, nah, nothing of any, you know, no, no, nowhere else really particular. Um, I’m we still have that. We still have a neuro-psych, uh, blog kind of website set up, but we have a buddy of mine set up a few years ago. He and I sat a few years ago called neuro-psych now, but we haven’t posted to it in a couple of years because. [00:56:53] At the time at the time we set it up, we both were, we both had a lot more time on our hands. [00:57:00] Um, and, uh, and now we don’t, uh, we’ve we both got more, a lot busier, but, uh, yeah, the, yeah, the H button on Twitter is probably the best way to, um, To, to follow me anywhere. And, uh, yeah, if anybody needs a neuropsychologist in South Carolina, especially in the Charleston area where, uh, we are open and, uh, taking new patients on an ongoing basis. [00:57:26] Brett: [00:57:26] Are you accepting out of town? Uh, tele help at all? [00:57:30] Howard: [00:57:30] We see, yeah. Out of town, like in person sometimes because South Carolina is effectively like an underserved population, as we say. Right. So, I mean, I’ve seen people from parts of Georgia and North Carolina and all over South Carolina. [00:57:42] Brett: [00:57:42] do you have to be licensed in the various States to do telehealth with people? [00:57:48]Howard: [00:57:48] good. Good question. Um, the short answer is according to the federal government, the short answer is that those restrictions have been relieved. Um, but there are still some like [00:58:00] insurance and billing requirements that are contrary to that. Uh, this is part of the ongoing struggle we have here in the clinic, uh, or in the clinical world. [00:58:09] Is keeping up with all these changes, um, uh, like their codes that have been added that we can bill for to account for some of the extra work we have to do over the pandemic, um, that had been approved by the federal government and all the regulating agencies that insurance companies still won’t allow us to bill for. [00:58:26] Right. It’s weird stuff. Um, but, uh, yeah, usually you do, but right now you sort of don’t. Um, but, uh, yeah, uh, yeah, it’s case by case kind of thing. [00:58:37] Brett: [00:58:37] all right. Well, thanks for taking the time today. Next time you come back, you get the five timers club jacket. [00:58:44] Howard: [00:58:44] nice. Nice. [00:58:46] Brett: [00:58:46] we’ll all look forward to that. [00:58:47] Howard: [00:58:47] that. [00:58:48] Brett: [00:58:48] Yeah. All right. Well, thanks again. [00:58:51] Howard: [00:58:51] Hey, I really appreciate it. I had a great time and it was great talk. It was a super fun talking to you again. [00:58:55] Brett: [00:58:55] Rock on. [00:58:57] Howard: [00:58:57] All right. Cheers.

This week’s guest is Ashley Esqueda, senior producer at CNET and woman about the internet. She joins Brett to talk about producing video at home, gaming, and some media picks worth talking about. Sponsor BetterHelp.com, affordable professional therapy and counseling from the comfort of your home. Get 10% off your first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/systematic. Show Links @ashleyesqueda Red Ventures Alpha Comic Book Club Elgato Collapsible Green Screen Neewer Camera Slider Neewer 18" Ring Light Aputure MC Light Aputure MC 12-light kit OBS Studio Cyberpunk 2077 Cyberpunk 2077 glitch Among Us The 52 things Disney just announced Top 3 Picks Spirit Farer Solutions and Other Problems Hyperbole and a Half Broken in the Best Possible Way You Are Here an Owner’s Manual for Dangerous Minds The Mandalorian Gallery: The Mandalorian Brett’s extras: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard 60 v2 Children of Blood and Bone Children of Virtue and Vengeance Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Ashley [00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] This week’s guest is Ashley Esqueda, senior producer at CNET and woman about the internet. Welcome back to the show, Ashley. [00:00:08] Ashley: [00:00:08] You for having me back? I it’s been a few years, so I figured I was on a black list. [00:00:12] Brett: [00:00:12] No, there was a year in there where systematic was just off the air. [00:00:18] Ashley: [00:00:18] I got, Oh, okay. I see. I see. [00:00:19] Brett: [00:00:19] I burnt out, I guess. [00:00:22] Ashley: [00:00:22] My PR it was so bad. My last appearance was so bad that you had to take a year long break [00:00:28] Brett: [00:00:28] was a slow burn because your last appearance was in 2015 and it just took until about 2019 for it really to sink in. [00:00:36] Ashley: [00:00:36] I get it. I get it. Have that effect on people years later, they realize what have I done? [00:00:43] Brett: [00:00:43] So how’s the pandemic treating you? [00:00:45]Ashley: [00:00:45] You know, uh, what is good anymore? It’s as we’ve discussed, it’s all relative, right? So I’m, we’re surviving. That seems we’re very fortunate. Um, we’re very we’re we are very grateful to still be [00:01:00] employed. Um, we are very grateful that, uh, we do not have to do distance learning because our. Son who was born last year is too little for that. [00:01:10] Um, we are, we are feeling very grateful for those things and, um, and just grateful that, uh, you know, the people that are closest to us have stayed for the most part, very healthy, um, and. Safe. So we’re, you know, it’s a, you know, the holiday season, you kind of start thinking of yourself, but all the things you’re grateful for, the things that you’re, you know, that you want to keep safe, the things that you care about. [00:01:35] And, um, all of those things have held thus far. So I will take it as a win. [00:01:40] Brett: [00:01:40] So when you say you’re still employed, um, what, what does your current job entail? [00:01:47] Ashley: [00:01:47] So I, well, it’s been a fun year for CNET. So, uh, if, if you hadn’t heard, we were sold, um, we do not. Uh, any longer have CBS as a parent company, [00:02:00] we are now owned by red ventures, um, who owns a lot of websites that you might be familiar with? They own, the point sky is one that a lot of people are familiar with. [00:02:09] Um, and so they. Yeah, good old Darren. Um, and so, uh, there are a lot of, uh, sites under sort of the CMG, uh, Seanet media group, um, banner that, that red ventures now own. So like GameSpot, um, Metacritic like all of the sites that CBS had, like a lot of them in interactive and digital have now moved over to red ventures. [00:02:33] So, um, so, but I’m still doing the same thing, which is, uh, that I’ve been doing for almost seven years now. I’m, I’m producing and hosting a video about technology and, uh, and all of the things that touch it, which at this point is pretty much any, anything is fair game, as long as it kind of plugs in or powers on. [00:02:51] Right. [00:02:52]Brett: [00:02:52] Yeah. So are you you’re producing and doing on-air stuff from home? [00:03:00] [00:03:00] Ashley: [00:03:00] Yes, uh, that has been a challenge. Um, I so funny story. So at the beginning of this year, um, I had just come back from maternity leave in November of 2019. And, uh, we had finished CES and I talked to my boss and I said, Hey, like I have a seven month old. Um, I’d really love to kind of spend a little more time at home. [00:03:24] Um, and the office that we were in was sort of a shared space with a lot of other CBS teams. So we struggled, uh, from time to time getting booking a space in our studio and, um, And so I said, Hey, like, because that’s the case, like I could really do something at my home office. That would be nice. Um, and he said, yeah, that seems fine. [00:03:44] Like, I’m willing to let you do that. You you’re pretty self-sufficient. And as long as you guys feel, um, at team LA that you could do your job like that. That’s cool. So, um, Huge huge props to my boss for allowing me to even just look into that. [00:04:00] Um, and as I was looking into it and sort of, kind of tinkering around with the idea, boom, the pandemic hit. [00:04:04] And so I was a little bit ahead of the curve on having a set up, um, to record from, um, compared to some of my other colleagues at work who were taken, uh, quite a bit by surprise. And the San Francisco office for seeing is. You know, it’s a, it’s a major office. It’s where most of our employees are and they have full studios there that they shoot in, in New York as well. [00:04:27] So, um, that was a little bit of a, more of a shock for them, uh, to have to work from home, shoot from home. Um, then, then, you know, maybe me, so, um, I got to work, right? So I cleaned out my office, which was. Up until that point a storage space for all of the baby stuff people had given us. Uh, and, and I just had not gotten around to cleaning it up. [00:04:50] And with the help of my very lovely husband, I was able to clear the space out and kind of rework some of my furniture. Uh, thanks to animal crossing for [00:05:00] inspiring me to keep furniture away from my walls at certain points, because that was actually very oddly helpful, uh, in figuring out how to sort of Tetris all of this together. [00:05:09] So now, um, as it stands, I actually have three different shooting spaces in about a 10 by 10, uh, office in my house. So I’ve got a desk space that is sort of a streamer setup. Uh, and it’s kind of where I do all my video meetings and there’s a bookshelf behind it, very sort of classic, uh, desk set up. And then I also have a vlogging set, which is a seated set. [00:05:34] I have a chair there it’s, it’s free standing. There’s no desk in front of it. Uh, and that is sort of more of a set set. I painted the walls matte black. I have acoustic foam on those walls. Um, I have a shelf in the back. That’s a curated collection of items that some that are some functional and some fun. [00:05:52] So, um, And then I also have an El Gato pop-up green screen, just in case I need to do a casting. So I’ve done a couple of [00:06:00] Splatoon online tournaments. I’ve done some e-sports casting with Nintendo, and I have continued to do that during the pandemic. So yeah, multiple shooting setups in here and throughout the year, I’ve kind of upgraded my gear and I just bought a new slider, which has been very exciting. [00:06:16] Cause I wanted to kind of up my B roll game. I shoot all this now by myself. It’s people send product and then I have to do all the B roll. I have to do, you know, the script and I have to sit down and then be the host. And then I have to sit down and figure out, you know, how I’m going to do transitions and, and get all the shots that my editors need and then, you know, upload all of that. [00:06:36] So it’s been, it’s been a year. It has been a tough year of adjustment, but, um, but fortunately I think that extra few weeks, like really kind of. Gave me a headstart in the way of figuring out how I could make this work. And, um, and now officially I’m I’m I think we in Los Angeles are permanent remote employees because red ventures is based in, um, back East. [00:07:00] [00:06:59] So we were kind of, the Burbank office in particular is, uh, we’re kind of like, Oh, okay, well, I guess we all just work from home, at least for now. Like, I mean, per you know, who knows if it’ll be permanent, permanent, or if it’s just like permanently until something really big changes. [00:07:14] Brett: [00:07:14] I have several questions. [00:07:16] Ashley: [00:07:16] Okay, please. [00:07:17] Brett: [00:07:17] First of all, what, when you say a slider, what is a slider? [00:07:21] Ashley: [00:07:21] So a slider is, uh, it’s this really lovely piece of equipment. And it usually is where you Mount your camera on top and then there’s some ball-bearings. So you get these really smooth. Um, side to side shots or going, you know, from kind of, if you ever watch a movie being made, you’ll see sort of, uh, the really big cameras on rails with the director. [00:07:44] And they’re like watching as like the camera moves forward. Okay. It’s similar to that, but much, much smaller. I’m definitely not sitting on it. Um, it’s just for the camera. And so you, uh, you put it, you Mount your camera on there and then you can slide your camera as it’s recording, uh, left to. Right. [00:08:00] Or if you, you know, rotate it. [00:08:01] You can go front to back. So it’s, um, it’s been very, very handy getting those really nice, like smooth B roll shots of, uh, products. So it’s, I really am loving the one that I got. I picked it up on him. [00:08:13]Brett: [00:08:13] Uh, why don’t you tell me which one it is so I can add it to the show notes. [00:08:17] Ashley: [00:08:17] Oh, okay. It’s a it’s from new year, uh, which makes a whole bunch of production stuff. I’m sure if anybody’s listening at home who has had Dubai, a ring light or any other kind of production type stuff to do video calls from home, even if you’re not in production, you probably have seen their name on Amazon, but new year, um, they make a whole bunch of different sliders. [00:08:38] And I think the one I have is about 24 inches long. Um, and it’s. Uh, it’s carbon fiber. So it’s a little, it was a little pricey, but it’s, uh, it’s a nice it’s it works really? [00:08:49]Brett: [00:08:49] Yeah, well, and you’ve, you’ve got a home studio that that is, I assume, at kind of professional levels. So your equipment is not going to be [00:09:00] cheap. [00:09:01] Ashley: [00:09:01] Yeah. I would say it’s not as expensive as a pro level studio because a lot of it I paid for out of pocket and I just, you know, Much as I would love to drop, you know, few thousand dollars on a professional grade aperture light, uh, to put in my you’ve seen like MKBHD has these like amazing aperture lights. [00:09:20] Um, I don’t have that now. Um, and also I just don’t have a lot of space. And so I’ve had to kind of find a good middle ground of, of. Relatively affordable gear. Um, that is also, uh, a lot of times if it breaks down, if I can fold it up, like I will pay a little bit extra for that, just because space is at a premium. [00:09:42] Brett: [00:09:42] So what I, there are two, two halves to this question, I guess, um, in your, uh, studio qualities, home studio, what kind of lighting do you use? [00:09:55]Ashley: [00:09:55] So I have a few different types of light. I have a regular ring [00:10:00] light that I bought from new it’s new air again. Um, really generally reasonably priced, uh, production stuff that you can get in two days on Amazon, which I that’s. That’s always very important to me. Um, so I have a big kind of like, I think it’s like an 18 inch ring light, um, and that’s kind of my streaming setup right now. [00:10:19] Uh, and then I also have, uh, oddly enough, so I have some uplighting behind the chair on this. blog set, uh, that hits the wall. It sort of washes the wall in a color. And the, um, the light bar that I bought was it was under a hundred dollars and it’s actually a DJ, a bar, a light bar for DJ that you put in like a church or at a wedding, and you can change the color on it and change the uplighting. [00:10:48] There’s only 16 colors on it, but it’s perfect. It works exactly. For what I need it for and it wasn’t terribly expensive. So I was like, this is exactly, exactly what I need. Um, so I have that. And then I also [00:11:00] have a very lovely, uh, aperture, uh, makes these little, uh, MC lights. They’re these they’re these little small handheld lights. [00:11:09] They’re little thicker than a phone. Okay. Um, and, uh, they’re, they’re fricking awesome. They’re magnetic. They have a full color spectrum available on them. You can change them from, uh, you know, white light to warm light, or you can do any RGB color that they have a full color wheel available to you. They have effects on them that you can make it look like theirs, their production lights they’re meant for short films or movies, like just full features, um, or TV shows. [00:11:36] And, uh, they have these effects on them. That’ll make it look like. The light coming from off cameras, like fireworks in the sky or, uh, police sirens or whatever, you know, like if you need to sort of cast that light on a, on a talent, you can do that with these lights. Um, and they make a kit that is called the MC 12 kit. [00:11:57] And, um, and it’s 12 [00:12:00] of these little, uh, $90 lights and, um, And so they all wirelessly charged in there. You don’t have to plug them in individually. The case is actually a wireless charging case. Uh it’s it’s really cool. It’s like really, really cool. It’s, it’s a little pricey. It’s like, I was like 1500 bucks. [00:12:19] Um, but they make smaller versions of this kit with like wireless charging. Um, they make like a four, a four light kit for $500 or whatever, but, um, they’re awesome. I use them all the time. Uh, I popped them on, oddly enough, this is like such a weird hacky thing, but. I put them on microphone stands vertically so that I have sort of like vertical lights set up that I can do green screen lighting for. [00:12:42] And it works beautifully. Like they work really, really well that way. So I’ve really been enjoying those. Um, and then I have also put them, uh, in the bookshelves, uh, of my, my blog set and change the color lighting there. And like, I mean, they’re just very versatile. So I’ve, I’ve really been [00:13:00] using those a lot. [00:13:00] Brett: [00:13:00] Nice. Um, yeah, the other half of that question would be if, and you’ve kind of already answered it. If, if someone were doing. Uh, video at home that they want it to be higher quality than your average zoom call. And they only were going to buy one light. What would you recommend? [00:13:20]Ashley: [00:13:20] Oh, if you only were going to buy one single [00:13:23] Brett: [00:13:23] We’ll say one or two. [00:13:25] Ashley: [00:13:25] one or two, um, I would say, depending on your budget, um, really, if you were being kind of static and you’re recording something, I would say just a classic ring light. You really can’t go wrong. A dimmable ring light that changes color temperature. Very, very good. [00:13:44] Um, But if you were, if you were really looking to kind of have something a little more versatile that you could use in, in multiple ways, I would say pick up a couple of small led panel lights. So yeah, like a couple of those MC lights would be great. You could get, uh, they, they attached to small, you [00:14:00] know, any tripod. [00:14:00] So if you had a little desktop tripod, you could just put them on there. [00:14:04]Brett: [00:14:04] All right. I have an 18 inch ring light that I bought for doing video interviews and it has served me well. In fact, it gets bright enough that I can use it as a side fill light, [00:14:17] Ashley: [00:14:17] Yeah, I have used mine [00:14:19] Brett: [00:14:19] purpose of the ring. But yeah. [00:14:21] Ashley: [00:14:21] I have used mine. So one of the things that I have found is my ceiling is white. And so if I tilt the light straight up onto the ceiling, Uh, for product shots, I can bounce the light and diffuse it and it looks really nice. It looks really good. So, um, yeah, like bouncing light has been like a fun, a fun lesson for me to learn during pen times. [00:14:46] Brett: [00:14:46] Yeah. I feel like a lot of people have suddenly been forced to, uh, to learn a little bit more about everything from webcams to, [00:14:53] Ashley: [00:14:53] Yeah. Production like lighting and yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s been, um, you know, but then there’s still those people, like, [00:15:00] you know, you get on your video calls and meetings and like there’s always that one person was just like, are you shooting this on a potato? Or like a webcam from 1996? Like, I, I, I somehow I just am not sure how that person has evaded upgrading their technology for, for so, so, so long. [00:15:16] Brett: [00:15:16] And then there’s always, maybe not. It might be, you might have a higher ratio in your video calls, but in my video calls, there’s always one, maybe two people who have the full, like SLR with the pull, pull, focus, set [00:15:31] Ashley: [00:15:31] I’m that? I’m that guy. [00:15:33] Brett: [00:15:33] and make everyone else look like garbage. [00:15:35] Ashley: [00:15:35] Yeah, it’s me, me and Brian Cooley are those two people on our calls. We have the full DSLR. I have a mirrorless I’ve, uh, I’ve uh, I shoot on, uh, my webcam quote unquote is a Fuji ex T3. And, um, and so, yeah, I shoot and I have an El Gato card that like feeds through it’s a whole, I guess the whole thing. [00:15:52] Um, so yeah, I have that whole setup and, um, it’s just easier because otherwise I have to like plug in and unplug this webcast. I don’t [00:16:00] want to deal with that. So [00:16:01] Brett: [00:16:01] in your line of work. There are people that show up on my calls that other than doing a lot of zoom calls, they have really no reason to own the quality set up that they do. [00:16:14] Ashley: [00:16:14] That’s fair, but are those people, people in real life, like in real life, this is real life. Uh, are those people who. Where are we not in a pandemic? Are those people who would be like really well dressed, like everyday at work? You know what I mean? Like there are the always, like, there’s always like that one lady or guy who is just so like impeccably dressed every day for work. [00:16:33] And you’re just like, man, I wish I had that level of commitment. I feel like it’s that same type of person. Right. It was just like, I just got to go all in on this. I have nothing better to do, and I can’t wear fancy clothes anymore because I’m just sitting in my house. So I’m going to buy like really nice video equipment. [00:16:47]Brett: [00:16:47] Like I w when I actually worked in an office, I loved to overdress and like, I’m the guy, I’m the guy I matched like cufflinks to sock patterns. Like [00:17:00] I’m very detail oriented. Um, I wore cufflinks to work. That’s what, that’s what I’m talking about. If I could afford it, I probably would be one of those people with the. [00:17:10] Ashley: [00:17:10] but it’s like, that’s, I feel like it’s like, it’s in the same vein, right? It’s like, that’s the best way for me to kind of wrap my head around it. [00:17:17]Brett: [00:17:17] Okay, so still on the same track because I’m hyper-focused, for some reason, I want to know what kind of software you’re using for your video production. Mm. [00:17:29] Ashley: [00:17:29] So fortunately, uh, for everybody who watches the videos that I make, I do not edit them. Uh I’m I’m fine. I can edit, uh, and, and I will edit if I have to, but I choose not to because we have so many more talented editors. Uh, we’re we’re on Adobe. So I use premiere to cut stuff if I, if I am cutting anything. [00:17:50] Um, and then I also have a comic book show that I do on Twitch every other Wednesday night. Um, and [00:18:00] that show, I. Use OBS to broadcast with. So, yeah, so, and I, I make the overlays for that in Photoshop. Like I change them every two weeks based on the comic book we’re reading. Um, and, uh, yeah, so it’s, it’s, uh, I don’t use a ton of production, uh, software, but when I do like, it’s usually, it’s usually Adobe. [00:18:23] Brett: [00:18:23] Uh, did you get a stream deck? [00:18:25]Ashley: [00:18:25] I don’t have a stream deck yet, and I want one, but I’m also just like, man, like it’s, it’s just three talking heads. You know what I mean? Like if maybe if I start actually streaming games, like that would be a thing that I would be really into, but I feel like I’m going to try it. Maybe I’ll try it on my phone first. [00:18:44] Cause I know you can do stream deck via your phone. So maybe, maybe I’ll do that. I’ll try the app first and then. [00:18:50] Brett: [00:18:50] well with [00:18:51] Ashley: [00:18:51] I I’ve heard this, I’ve heard it works very, very well, and I’m just like, okay. But, um, I’m also just like, Oh man, if I get into that rabbit hole, it feels like I’m going to be like building out a whole [00:19:00] bunch of like different layouts and overlays that I’m gonna have to change every time. [00:19:03] And I’m just like, well, let’s do I want to do that? All that extra work? Like I just, sometimes maybe it’s easier to just pretend that I, I don’t know how to do that, that I just thought I don’t have to do it. [00:19:12] Brett: [00:19:12] Yeah. Yeah. My, uh, my partner is, uh, a yoga instructor. Part-time. Um, but, uh, she has been doing a lot of her yoga over zoom. A lot of her classes, she teaches over zoom and we are working to be able to record her camera at the same time. She’s teaching zoom without recording the zoom call itself and OBS is our solution, but we keep running into problems with audio on a Mac. [00:19:46] Uh, when you combine zoom and OBS, but once we have that worked out [00:19:51] Ashley: [00:19:51] many problems with audio and OBS like so many, [00:19:56] Brett: [00:19:56] yeah. That worked out. I can’t wait to get her hooked up with my stream deck [00:20:00] though. And, and a bunch of [00:20:01] Ashley: [00:20:01] she’s going to [00:20:02] Brett: [00:20:02] lower thirds and transition. [00:20:05] Ashley: [00:20:05] And then it’s all built in that’s that’s the, really the beauty of OBS, right? It’s like, you can just have everything built in and then use stream deck. And it’s just done when it, when you’re done recording, there’s nothing to add. You just cut the crusts off the beginning of the end. [00:20:16] You’re just like, cut, cut the cross off. And you have this beautiful little package thing that’s finished. Just like that’s it’s I, that is my favorite type of production. Put it through a TriCaster, put it through a stream deck, put it through any of that. Just, I want it done finished note, no post production, like just really prep in pre-production and make it really good. [00:20:35] And then that way you don’t have to kill your editors. Like they just have a really nice, easy time. [00:20:40]Brett: [00:20:40] I, uh, I’ve been working towards doing that with my podcasts. They, uh, they still require too much manual editing, but I have a soundboard and everything now. Um, [00:20:51] Ashley: [00:20:51] That’s nice. That’s a, that’s a good, that’s a S that’s a significant thing for every podcast, right? Like the soundboard is like the key. [00:20:58]Brett: [00:20:58] so aside from [00:21:00] work, how are you, uh, how are you staying sane during the, uh, the quarantine [00:21:05]Ashley: [00:21:05] Well, I mean, I do think once again, it’s sane is a relative term. Um, you know, some days it’s, it’s, I’m reminded of, uh, I’m reminded of Spider-Man three where he’s just so happy after the alien has, after venom has infected him. And he’s just like Saturday night live in Saturday night fever and all over the place. [00:21:27] Um, Some days it’s that. And the other days it’s reliving the yellow wallpaper, uh, that the American classic short story, uh, you know, a lot of animal crossing, just so many hours of animal crossing. [00:21:42]Brett: [00:21:42] Yeah. You play a lot of games, right? [00:21:44] Ashley: [00:21:44] I, well, I will say I. I played a lot of games, but I only play a handful of them at a time. So it takes me a long time to get through a game now because I have a 17 month old and it’s like, I can only play at night, but [00:22:00] then sometimes I just fall the fall asleep on the couch by nine o’clock, like we’re just exhausted. [00:22:05] So it’s, um, It’s uh, it’s relative. I do have a, I do have a set appointment with my best friend to game every Monday. That’s like, uh, that’s a must I that’s a non-negotiable we play video games, try to like blow off some steam, play some Overwatch, um, play fall guys, maybe play some Tetris effect connected, which has been very, very fun. [00:22:25] Um, but now I have a, I just downloaded cyber punk. So we’ll probably get into that maybe this weekend. [00:22:30]Brett: [00:22:30] The only thing I know about cyber bug is the, uh, the news that’s been, uh, all over the. Internet with, um, a glitch. Uh, apparently it renders, um, uh, phalluses [00:22:46]Ashley: [00:22:46] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, well, so during character creation you can choose to customize your genitalia. Um, and, and there’s like, you know, I think it’s like big, bigger, [00:23:00] biggest, or something like that, which is very funny. A lot of wish fulfillment happening in cyber punk for so many. Uh, but, but the funny thing is, is like, there is, yeah, there’s a glitch where just everybody’s junks just hanging out of their pants, like through them, there’s this a clipping issue. [00:23:15]Brett: [00:23:15] Do you think it was, uh, do you think it was entirely accidental or was it really good for promotion? [00:23:22] Ashley: [00:23:22] I mean, so it’s hard to say, right? Because of course it’s really funny and obviously like people are going to share. People are going to share gifts of that bug. Like it’s, it’s very funny. Um, I know I did. Uh, but on that same note, like clearly the developers, like don’t intend for these things to happen and they take pride in their work and you know, it’s, it’s been, there’s been a lot of talk about it being a buggy launch. [00:23:50] Like the game is really buggy. Um, so high it’s like one of those things where it’s like my brother’s a game developer, he’s a game producer for world of Warcraft and like, I know that they [00:24:00] would never, like that team would never put out a bug on purpose. Right. It’s just like, it’s just not a thing they would want to do. [00:24:06] And so, um, so I think it’s unintentional, but also just very funny, very, very funny. I’m uh, I am absolutely a middle school child when it comes to that bug. It is just really, it’s hilarious. [00:24:18] Brett: [00:24:18] Okay. So here’s, here’s my question. If it weren’t for this bug, would you ever actually see the object itself or are they going to all the trouble to render? A realistic penis just to create a bulge. [00:24:35]Ashley: [00:24:35] I’m guessing that there are some sex scenes in this game, or some nudity in this game where it’s like, you know, maybe you like go somewhere. They tell you to strip down and make sure you’re not wearing a wire or whatever, whatever that is. I have a feeling there’s like some. Some reason for the, for nudity and the game. [00:24:52] And so, um, what’s cyberpunk, it’s edgy. It’s cool. Right? So it’s, it’s so, so edgy. And, um, and so in 2077, you know, people [00:25:00] just take their clothes off, I guess that’s like, uh, maybe that’s the thing. Um, maybe there’s maybe that there’s a whole neighborhood and cyber punk was just the colony of nudists. And you have to, you have to blend in. [00:25:10] I’m not really like I haven’t played the game yet. I can’t, I can’t say for sure. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I have a feeling there’s probably some, some aspect of the story that requires your main character V to strip down in some capacity. [00:25:23] Brett: [00:25:23] That that makes more sense than, than going to the trouble to render something that would never be seen. [00:25:29] Ashley: [00:25:29] Junk for junk sake. Yeah. That, that does seem well. And also just seems like a whole lot of extra work, you know, you got to do the physics of it, like, cause it’s, I mean, it is, this is very realistic. And so there’s like the, the physics of it and like, you know, it’s just, yeah, that seems like a lot of extra work for nothing. [00:25:44] If you’re not going to actually have some gameplay element that requires you to strip down nude. [00:25:49]Brett: [00:25:49] All right. Have you ever played, um, what’s that, what’s the game that, uh, AOC was playing among us. Is that what it was? [00:25:58]Ashley: [00:25:58] among us. Uh, [00:26:00] man, this is such a cool game and everybody can try it. If you have a mobile device, like it’s free, so you can get it on your iPhone for free. Uh, so basically how this works is. I’ve only played it a couple of times, I’m going to be playing it for my brother’s birthday next week. This is like the birthday party that we’re doing. [00:26:15] It’s our whole family playing among us, which should be hilarious. Um, but you have a group of people and I believe the minimum number of players is four and you’re all these little, uh, these little, little dudes and dudettes on a, um, on a spaceship. And, uh, one of you is a murderer. They’re like, you’re the imposter, you’re an imposter. [00:26:39] You don’t belong there. And so your job, if you are the imposter is to murder everyone else on the ship. Like that’s the end game for you. You have to kill everybody on the ship. Uh, everybody else’s job is to figure out who the imposter is and throw them out the airlock. But there’s like a lot of, because you’re all playing together, you’re talking and stuff. [00:26:59] You can say like, [00:27:00] Oh, I saw it. Like, if you’re the imposter, you can be like, Oh, I saw so-and-so come out of the engine room where that dead body was found like, Oh my God, like they, the blue is sus like that suspect. Like you got to toss them right out the airlock. So you convince people to vote for. Not you, if you’re the imposter. [00:27:20] And so there’s like, it’s really fun. Like it’s, it’s just really, it’s just so cool. It’s like a good social game and, um, perfect for the pandemic. I mean, you know, I don’t think any. Game company wants to launch their game, uh, you know, and succeed because of something so terrible, but it certainly hasn’t hurt them, that people are looking for something social to connect with their friends and to do things, uh, to have fun with. [00:27:45] And it’s, um, it’s like, you know, it’s like playing clue except one of you is a, yeah, it’s great. It’s, it’s really fun. I really love it. It’s it’s great. But I’ve only played it a couple of times, cause I, again, I don’t have a lot of time and I don’t have any friends, so there you go. [00:27:57] Brett: [00:27:57] I did, I did get to try it once with, [00:28:00] uh, with a great group of friends. And, um, I was surprisingly good at being the imposter. I took very quickly to jumping in and out of events and. [00:28:10] Ashley: [00:28:10] my God [00:28:11] Brett: [00:28:11] And learning when to accuse someone else, but also when to just kind of keep my mouth shut and let the conversation move. [00:28:19] Cause [00:28:19] Ashley: [00:28:19] or accuse yourself. That’s a good strategy. [00:28:23] Brett: [00:28:23] If you’re overly, if you accuse someone too hard, people will immediately be [00:28:28] Ashley: [00:28:28] you’re suspicious. That’s us. You gotta be careful. That’s super sus you gotta watch out for that. [00:28:33] Brett: [00:28:33] It is a great social game though. And I have not played a lot of multiplayer games in general, but this one has like regular breaks that you can actually converse with people. And you really feel like you’re part of a, a team and I, I love it. [00:28:47] Yeah, [00:28:47] Ashley: [00:28:47] it’s, it literally is like a murder mystery dinner party, except you’re all just playing on your I-phones. [00:28:52] Brett: [00:28:52] yeah, [00:28:53] Ashley: [00:28:53] It’s pretty. I it’s fun. It’s really fun. [00:28:56] Brett: [00:28:56] Um, we were talking before the show about. [00:29:00] Disney and how, uh, how crazy was it just yesterday? [00:29:05] Ashley: [00:29:05] Uh, yes. Yesterday, I’m still recovering. Actually, I feel hung over from all the joy. So 2020 has been such a downer on so many levels personally, just, just on a macro and micro level, um, that getting so much like good nerd news, like good content via, like, it just, it was like overwhelming. Uh, to get all of that like good stuff. [00:29:30] Just pumped into your veins. I mentioned on Twitter, I was like, this is literally like not eating sugar for five years. And then all of a sudden dying of a doughnut overdose, like this is, I felt, it felt so good while it was happening. But afterwards I was like, I’m exhausted. I feel like I’m going to faint. [00:29:48] Like it’s just too much, [00:29:49] Brett: [00:29:49] So give us, give us a taste. What was, uh, what was the big deal? Um, [00:29:54] Ashley: [00:29:54] So yesterday, um, was the Disney investor day. And earlier in the week, [00:30:00] Disney announced, Oh, Hey, by the way, it’s going to be four hours long. And everybody’s like, what? Why? Like, why do you need to have four hours to talk about your stock prices or whatever turns out? Uh, they literally went through all of their announcements, uh, and what they’re doing in 20, I mean it just 20, 20, 20, 21. [00:30:21] So Marvel, uh, got a new trailer, FA uh, Marvel dropped a trailer for wand division, which is like the last one said the they’re gonna release it in January. Uh, Falcon in the winter soldier got a full trailer. Finally, we got a trailer for low-key the new short, uh, limited series. That’s going to be on Disney, like Disney plus. [00:30:40] Came to play yesterday. Like they’re not messing around. This is like, they went full bore, look at all this amazing stuff we’re making, we’re going in hard on superheroes and star Wars. They announced, uh, they sh they talked about Hawkeye, the series Hawkeye. They talked about. What if, which is this animated series? [00:30:57] That’s like, uh, what if, [00:31:00] uh, there was a different, what if, um, Haley Outwell was. Uh, not captain America, but captain Britain, like, you know, like captain England, uh, what if, you know, just what ifs there, then they announced iron heart. That’s going to come on a Disney plus, which is Riri Williams, which is the kind of the successor to Tony stark in the comic books, armor Wars, like Don Cheadle is going to come back as Roddy, um, secret invasion, which they’re gonna have to. [00:31:27] Sam Jackson come back. Like, I mean, it’s just moon Knight. Shiho Ms. Marvel, uh, captain Marvel to, uh, guardians of the galaxy holiday, special Chaim group, a bunch of short films with, with little group in it. Um, they talked about black Panther too. They talked about the third ant man movie. They talked about a new, fantastic four movie. [00:31:48] They announced the director for that because Disney owns Fox now. So they own the fantastic four. Again, because Marvel, uh, and then they then announced like 10 star Wars [00:32:00] series. Are coming to Disney plus they’re like, ah, here’s spinoffs of the Mandalorian Rangers of the new Republic, a soca star Wars, the bad batch we’re going to do. [00:32:09] We’re going to do star Wars and or we’re going to do high Republic. We’re going to do Obi wan Kenobi. A droid story. Lando is going to get his own event series, like a limited series. And they’re going to do an anime anthology series where a star Wars that’s just, Oh, and by the way, Patty Jenkins wonder woman director is going to direct. [00:32:27] Rogue squadron, a star Wars movie about a dog fight against space. And then Taika YTD. We already knew he was going to make a star Wars movie. Uh, they already say, Hey, he’s going to, he’s still doing that. Um, but yeah, I mean, it’s just, there’s so much of, and that’s not, that’s just Marvel and star Wars. Like that’s not Pixar Disney animation. [00:32:49] It is just wild to me. How much. They announced and they also announced a price increase. So it’s a Disney plus is going to go up to eight bucks a month, starting [00:33:00] in March of 2021. Um, they also announced that they’re going to do, uh, they have that bundle right now that I think is, was it 12 bucks a month, 13 bucks a month, something like that, where it’s Disney plus ESPN. [00:33:16] A plus and Hulu, but with ads, they said, they’re going to do a version of that bundle with no ads for Hulu, uh, starting in January, uh, for 18 or 19 bucks a month. [00:33:30] Brett: [00:33:30] Cool. So what did they do for the rest of the four hours now? I’m just kidding. That was [00:33:34] Ashley: [00:33:34] I know, right. That was the first like half hour. And then it just, yeah, but they, they basically said they’re like, we are going to be bringing 55, zero new Marvel about new Marvel star Wars, Disney Disney series, Pixar series movies over the next few years. So like, this is, I mean, it’s just like, it is a wild thing to be that they chose. [00:33:57] Their investor day to do this because usually it would be a [00:34:00] separate event, right? We’d be like, Oh, we’re going to roll out the slate or no, they just did it on investor day. And I guess it paid off because their stock prices went up. [00:34:06] Brett: [00:34:06] Well, and I think based on numbers, it’s fair to say that Disney plus as a whole is a huge success. [00:34:13] Ashley: [00:34:13] 86 million subscribers. That’s a really big deal. That’s a really big deal. [00:34:19]Brett: [00:34:19] yeah. Enough for them to raise the price a little bit, which seems backwards to me. Like I think once you have enough users, you should be able to afford to drop the price. But also [00:34:32] Ashley: [00:34:32] it’s a double-edged sword, right though, because it’s like the more people you have, the more they’re going to demand new content, you gotta pay for it. Yeah, I paid for it. And so it’s, you know, and if the theater and the theater system right now is a mess, like the, the, the movie theaters are all closed here in the U S like it’s a disaster. [00:34:49] And so it’s, you know, they gotta pay for it. And so it’s like, you know, you get an extra $86 million a month. That’ll and that’s not even really like a lot of money in the way of, you know, making a [00:35:00] movie of, you know, a live action star Wars movie yeah. Is $300 million. So it’s like, so it’s just. They got to pay for it somehow they got to pay for it. [00:35:10] Brett: [00:35:10] And they’re not skimping on content. That’s for sure. [00:35:13] Ashley: [00:35:13] They’re definitely not. And, and I have a feeling the next few years, like some people had said, Oh, well, Disney plus is not really worth it because it’s just the Mandalorian and like all the Disney stuff. And if you don’t have a, you know, kids in your family or you don’t watch a lot of animated films like this, it’s like not really worth it. [00:35:27] Now. It seems like in the coming years, it will certainly be worth it. Um, and you know, for eight bucks a month, which is still cheaper than. You know, most like a lot of streaming starts at 10 bucks, 15 bucks and HBO max, 15 bucks. So half the price of that. So, [00:35:46]Brett: [00:35:46] All right. Well, this is where I’m going to take a, a break for a sponsor, [00:35:52] (Sponsor) Thanks to Better Help for sponsoring this episode. [00:35:56] and that brings us to our, our top three picks. Are you [00:36:00] ready for top three picks? [00:36:01] Ashley: [00:36:01] Yeah, let’s talk about it. [00:36:03] Brett: [00:36:03] All right. I look forward. Regular listeners know this because I say it every week, but I no longer do my top three picks. [00:36:13] So this is all us talking about your top three pigs. [00:36:16]Ashley: [00:36:16] Amazing. [00:36:18]Brett: [00:36:18] Um, I was, I was waiting to see if you were going to express some kind of disappointment or if you were going to be like super into that. So [00:36:25] Ashley: [00:36:25] It’s just all about me right now. It just feels really good. Um, no, I’m actually, I’m going to, I’m going to ask you what Blake, what are you? What’s the, what’s your number one? I want you to just your top one pick. What’s the thing you’re into right now. [00:36:38] Brett: [00:36:38] Um, the ultimate hacking keyboard version, too, [00:36:42]Ashley: [00:36:42] Oh, [00:36:44] Brett: [00:36:44] that and the graveyard book by Neil Gaiman, [00:36:47]Ashley: [00:36:47] that’s a very good [00:36:49] Brett: [00:36:49] also children of blood and bone and children of virtue and vengeance. [00:36:53] Ashley: [00:36:53] They’re making that they’re making that Disney plus they said the option did [00:36:56] Brett: [00:36:56] Are you serious? Oh, man, [00:36:58] Ashley: [00:36:58] they did yesterday. [00:37:00] [00:36:59] Brett: [00:36:59] that would be amazing. That book was so good. Awesome. Okay. You just made my year. Well, so [00:37:07] Ashley: [00:37:07] I asked what you were [00:37:08] Brett: [00:37:08] ultimate hacking keyboard just contacted me today cause I have been evangelizing for the version one keyboard for a year or two now. And they’re like, Hey, we, we, we noticed that you’re really into your keyboard. [00:37:22] Would you like to help test our prototype of the version two that we announced a couple of weeks ago with all of the extra modules. And I was like, Merry Christmas. Yes. [00:37:33] Ashley: [00:37:33] Yes. [00:37:34] Brett: [00:37:34] now I’m even more into it, but yeah. Anyway, anyway, [00:37:38] Ashley: [00:37:38] I love when that happens. I love when you’re a fan of something and then the company reaches out and there’s like, Hey, we just really love that. You’re a fan. Do you want to check this thing out? Like, I really, I, I appreciate that. Cause it’s like just, it feels very organic. Like you don’t feel like you’re begging for anything, but also you don’t feel like they’re begging you for anything. [00:37:53] Like, it’s just, it’s a nice as is nice. It feels, feels really good and very mutual. So mutual agreement. Um, so [00:38:00] what am I let’s see, what am I into, um, right now I am playing just a lovely. Aside from siren funk, which everybody’s playing. Um, I’m playing a lovely indie game by thunder Lotus called spirit fairer, and I am enjoying it so very much. [00:38:16] Um, it feels like a good year to play this game. It’s, it’s sad. Um, but also very poignant, very heartwarming. Uh, so you are Stella. Hmm, Stella, uh, takes over for char on. Um, so you are now the spirit fair. You are, you have a beautiful ship that you can upgrade and you have to find spirits who need ferrying to the other side. [00:38:42] To the ever door as it were in this game. And there’s a little bit of management in it. Um, there’s some cooking. You can, you have to craft a little bit, you find resources and craft to be able to upgrade parts of your ship or the little cabins that you make for the people that you pick up, the spirits that you pick [00:39:00] up. [00:39:00] Um, but the stories are just so beautiful. Um, one of the first spirits you pick up is, and they, all of the spirits manifest themselves as animals. So, uh, one of the first spirits you pick up is Gwen and. She is a deer and she, uh, she’s just beautifully animated. It looks like you’re playing a movie. It’s this beautiful, like hand drawn animation. [00:39:27] And, um, she talks about how she, she smokes. And so when she talks to you about her journey, like every now and again, she’ll talk to you as you go through her quest line about her, her life and how she lost it. And, uh, it turns out she got lung cancer and like there’s, you know, it’s, it’s just, it’s so. Um, poignant again, the word that I can use to describe it’s the best word that I can think of. [00:39:52] Um, and it’s, it’s really just such a lovely game and it’s so relaxing and calming. Um, and, and sad. I, every time I have to say goodbye [00:40:00] to one of these spirits, like I’ve cried, like, is it, if you really make a connection with them and it’s just, the writing is so good and, um, and so wonderful. And I, I cannot, um, praise thunder, Lotus enough for making this. [00:40:13] Great. Beautiful. I love indie games. I love these small, uh, stories. Cause you know, you can just tell so much love went into making it like these people who made this game just truly, uh, truly, truly loved, um, truly loved what they were making and they were really proud of it. So [00:40:32] Brett: [00:40:32] Sound really nice. Uh, what platform does that on? [00:40:35] Ashley: [00:40:35] Uh, I’m not sure all of them, but I’m playing it on switch. [00:40:39]Yeah, so, but it’s, it’s just so good and, and, and wonderful. And I. I cannot sing its praises enough. I I’m really enjoying it. And it’s um, it’s, it’s so funny. It’s like, it’s such a bittersweet game. It’s you play it. And it’s just really lovely. And there are these moments where you have, uh, you know, you give one of the spirits, their favorite dish, that the dish, they enjoyed the most in life, [00:41:00] like pork chops or whatever. [00:41:01] And they just are so happy and then you can hug them and talk to them. And then they’re like these little mini games as you go where you have to like capture lightning in a bottle or, you know, it’s. It’s really, really, really good. I, so well-made so, so, so well-made. [00:41:16] Brett: [00:41:16] Nice. It sounds like, um, it could be cathartic for people dealing with grief as well. [00:41:22] Ashley: [00:41:22] Very much so, um, I’ve recommended it to a lot of, uh, people who have lost somebody, um, either this year or previous years. I know, um, there’s one spirit in particular that really reminds me of my grandma, who I lost a few years ago. Um, sort of suddenly. And so, um, it’s just, it, it really is just such a beautiful take on, um, on death and in grief and it’s, it’s very good. [00:41:48] Very, very good. So just enjoying it so much. [00:41:51] Brett: [00:41:51] That’s an amazing Peck. [00:41:52] Ashley: [00:41:52] Yeah. So, um, that would be one. And then I am also, and I want to make sure that I get the name of this book, right? Hold on one [00:42:00] second. So if you’ve ever heard of hyperbole and a half, um, there’s a new book that she, Allie broche is back. She, she published us a second book called solutions and other problems. [00:42:14]And, uh, I am reading that right now. And it is very funny. Um, it is, it is very, very funny. Uh, she, one of the stories she tells in this book is like how she, she, how she realized as a small child that, uh, there were other people in the world, like she’s like, I, one day I realized, like, I think it’s Richard, their neighbor. [00:42:41] Richard was like another person who like, lived in a different house. Like she’s like, and I was so like, I was basically like spying on him. Like I was so interested in like what he was doing and she’s like, and then like I started, she goes in one day, I crawled through his cat flap and I was in his [00:43:00] house. [00:43:00] She’s like, and she was like three, just like digitally. I don’t know what I was doing. I was just in there. I was super interested in Richard. Like I just wanted to know what his deal was. And she started like stealing from him, like Charlotte taking little like knickknacks or like little things around his house and like putting them in her drawer. [00:43:16] And then, and then her parents asked her at one point, like, what, you know, where were you? And she was like, Oh, I was just hanging out with Richard. Who was this? Like single man by himself in this house. And so her parents are very concerned about this and they were like, uh, our daughter said she’d been hanging out with you. [00:43:33] And he’s like, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Cause he’s just the never saw her. She wasn’t actually, she goes, of course, like we weren’t actually hanging out. Like I was just in his house. And so one day. Her parents like open this drawer and see all of his stuff. And she tried to steal his cat. [00:43:49] That was the thing that got her caught. She tried to steal his cat. That was the thing that, that gave, gave up the goose. And, um, Oh my God. It’s just that story the way she tells it. It’s just so [00:44:00] funny and she, I’m so glad she’s doing okay. I know. Um, she struggles with depression and, um, she’s very transparent about it. [00:44:09] And so I was very happy to see that, um, To see that she was writing another book and, uh, and that she, and that she is just this funny as she has always been. So I, I I’ve really enjoyed that. God, it’s really funny. Just so good. [00:44:24] Brett: [00:44:24] Nice. Nice. Um, there was a new book coming out. The Jenny Lawson, [00:44:31] Ashley: [00:44:31] Yes. [00:44:31] Brett: [00:44:31] the blog is [00:44:32] Ashley: [00:44:32] blog S. [00:44:34] Brett: [00:44:34] have a new book too. [00:44:35] Ashley: [00:44:35] I believe so she’s, let’s see. I think she’s writing a new one right now to even, um, it’s called, I think the new one is called broken and next year it’s called broken in the best possible way. [00:44:47] Brett: [00:44:47] Yep. That’s the one. [00:44:49] Ashley: [00:44:49] Yeah. And then, uh, the one that most recently came out, I think was you are here and owner’s manual. [00:44:55] So, and that was also I’ve read all her books. I got, I love her. She’s just, she is so, so, [00:45:00] so funny. [00:45:00] Brett: [00:45:00] Yeah. I saw her, I saw her speak at a Barnes and noble or like do a reading and she had, she had to stop halfway through, uh, like anxiety attack, which just made her like all the more human cause. I mean, that’s the kind of stuff she writes about all the time. Anyway. Uh, so it was not unexpected for anyone there, but yeah, it was, she didn’t stick around for any book signing because she was having a rough day. [00:45:26] But again, super relatable. [00:45:28]Ashley: [00:45:28] Yeah. Yeah, she’s great. Um, I love that she, I feel so bad. She has a bookstore and, uh, she’s a physical bookstore that she bought called nowhere. And, um, And it was supposed to open this year and then it didn’t. So, um, she’s still, they’re still waiting. They’re still just waiting to open it. [00:45:48] Brett: [00:45:48] Yeah, it’s a rough, rough time for that. [00:45:52] Ashley: [00:45:52] Man. It’s just, it’s so hard out there. It’s so hard. I know. So too many people who have small businesses, too many people who, [00:46:00] you know, just like, man, I read a story today in the Washington post about a lady who was a, uh, a waitress at Disney world for 15 years. And she’s like, I love my job. And she really just expected. [00:46:11] Things to go back to normal and she just still hasn’t, you know, she was one of the, the workers laid off, um, earlier this year and it’s just like, man, it’s just tough stuff out there. So, but, um, but yeah, so I I’m, I’m enjoying definitely enjoying Allie broche I will enjoy Allie broche until my dying breath. [00:46:29] I’m sure. Um, and then I think the last thing I’m enjoying is, um, one of the things that I’m really into right now is, uh, Um, I’m really into I’m really well. I’m just, I’m torn here because it’s like I could pick a game, but I already picked a game. So I guess I might say, I mean, I’m really into the Mandalorian, but who isn’t, [00:46:53] Brett: [00:46:53] I definitely am. [00:46:55] Ashley: [00:46:55] Who isn’t I haven’t seen the most recent episode, but like, I think we can all [00:47:00] agree that if I just say, can you believe what happened on the last episode of the Mandalorian? [00:47:04] It was amazing. It’s just a blanket statement that will carry you to, whenever you listen to this episode. [00:47:10] Brett: [00:47:10] Weirdly, I can’t, my partner will watch it with me, but she doesn’t seem to love it the way I do [00:47:18]Ashley: [00:47:18] It’s isn’t it just the perfect expression of like what star Wars is supposed to be. I think it is, um, [00:47:24] Brett: [00:47:24] Because I mean, star Wars and I don’t mean to offend any star Wars fans, but star Wars is a pretty kind of like childlike view. Of this, this future. Um, [00:47:38] Ashley: [00:47:38] it’s, it’s a space adventure. It’s a space cereal. And if you think of it as like a comic book, a real life comic book brought to life, like that’s what it is. [00:47:47] Brett: [00:47:47] Like I am, I am by nature. I’m a, I’m a Trek guy, but I really enjoy star Wars for what it is. And I feel like the Mandalorian completely encapsulates that kind of childlike. Wonder for me. [00:48:00] [00:47:59] Ashley: [00:47:59] Yep. And that’s sort of like, um, there’s a handcrafted quality to the Mandalorian that like really, I think matters. And I don’t, I’m not one of those people, who’s just like completely anti special effects. Um, but have you seen, I’m sure you have it, you saw the gallery episodes on Disney plus where it’s like, here’s how we make the Mandalorian. [00:48:21] Brett: [00:48:21] are those there because I would love to watch [00:48:23] Ashley: [00:48:23] Oh, my God, Brett, you got to watch them. Okay. So on Disney plus they have this thing called the gallery. The Mandalorian. And it’s a series of, I think it’s six episodes. Um, and each one of them it’s like, they talk to the directors and then they do an actor’s round table and then they do, but one of the episodes is about the volume, which is the giant led [00:48:43] Brett: [00:48:43] I have read about it. [00:48:44] Ashley: [00:48:44] the Mandalorian on it. [00:48:45] And it’s, um, it’s incredible. Uh, the technology involved in bringing that show to life and making it look the way it does is, um, is really just an accomplishment. Just, just an absolute. Visionary thing. Like it’s, [00:49:00] it’s just an incredible thing. And, um, and to see it in action and to see how it works is just, wow. [00:49:08] Just, wow. [00:49:09] Brett: [00:49:09] I need to watch that [00:49:10] Ashley: [00:49:10] You’ve got [00:49:11] Brett: [00:49:11] I read about that set and then watch it. The show. And in my head, knowing like this, the, all these led panels, like running all of these graphics to create the set, but I couldn’t in watching it. I couldn’t imagine how it worked. Like [00:49:27] Ashley: [00:49:27] How it [00:49:28] Brett: [00:49:28] it all blended so seamlessly. [00:49:30] Ashley: [00:49:30] They do. And it’s so good. And, but to watch them the way that they feel, it’s just, it, it is incredible. Like it just, it is amazing. And it’s, it is an amazing thing in the way. It’s an amazing accomplishment in the way of, you know, you don’t need volumetric lighting added by, you know, rotoscoping and stuff. [00:49:49] Cause it’s there it’s just exists. Like it’s, it’s just right there. And th the thing that is reflecting in Mandos helmet is the thing that is in front of him. It’s just being played on a screen. And it’s just, [00:50:00] I mean, man, it’s just, it’s so impressive. So, so impressive. [00:50:04] Brett: [00:50:04] Awesome. I have some, I have some research to do. [00:50:08] Ashley: [00:50:08] Yeah, save it. So my recommendation is cause the, the final season second season finale is next Friday, right? So it’s our next Thursday night or whatever, whenever it drops. Um, so once it’s over, save it for Christmas time, like give it to yourself as a nice Christmas gift. Just relax, watch a whole bunch of episodes of it at the gallery. [00:50:27] And, um, and, and enjoy that because it is a very good behind the scenes making of. [00:50:31] Brett: [00:50:31] Awesome. All right, will do. Um, in reference to a previous conversation, I have to tell you one, one charming story. Um, I’m going to say, say her last name wrong. Cause I always do, even though I I’ve known them for many years, but uh, my friend, Jesse Chartier, uh, who is married, you may know David Chartier or Chartier. [00:50:58] Ashley: [00:50:58] I think so. Yeah. [00:50:59] Brett: [00:50:59] used to write [00:51:00] for ARS Technica and, uh, the unofficial Apple weblog. Um, anyway, she dressed up as Patty Jenkins to go with us to Comicon and then interviewed everybody who was dressed as wonder woman [00:51:15] Ashley: [00:51:15] Oh, wow. [00:51:16] Brett: [00:51:16] and the wonder women. Cause players loved it like to, to, uh, to every single one of them, uh, where it’s just ecstatic to like get interviewed by cosplay petty Jenkins. [00:51:31] Anyway, I thought you might appreciate that. [00:51:33] Ashley: [00:51:33] That is, that’s a really good idea. [00:51:36] Brett: [00:51:36] Yeah. We all thought so with Jesse’s brilliant. [00:51:39]Ashley: [00:51:39] That’s amazing. That’s so fun. [00:51:42] Brett: [00:51:42] Yeah. All right. Well, Um, where can people find you? Should they want to know more? [00:51:50] Ashley: [00:51:50] Uh, I mean, you know, the only place I’m hanging outs on Twitter, I hate, I hate even if I deleted my Facebook account, I don’t, I don’t exist anywhere else on the internet, but Twitter now, I just, I can’t, [00:52:00] I just can’t, I can’t deal. I can’t deal with Facebook anymore. Um, yeah, I’m on Twitter. I’m at Ashley’s together on Twitter is super easy to find me. [00:52:07] I’m always online. Um, I, I am. Yeah. And, um, I just like, I like talking to people, so come stop by say hello. [00:52:17] Brett: [00:52:17] Yeah, I will say a quick Google for your name. Turns up plenty of results [00:52:22] Ashley: [00:52:22] Yeah. I mean, you could Google me. That’s that’s fine. But I mean, it’s just, you know, if you want the real pure unfiltered view of the Ashlea Skedda experience, it’s definitely on Twitter. [00:52:33]Brett: [00:52:33] and lots of it. [00:52:35] Ashley: [00:52:35] Yeah, and lots of it. God don’t ever turn notifications on for me. Like, it’s just not a good idea. I don’t recommend it. [00:52:41] You, you will immediately throw your phone into space and you’ll never see it again. Yeah. [00:52:46] Brett: [00:52:46] All right. Well, thanks so much for taking the time today, [00:52:49] Ashley: [00:52:49] Thanks. I’ll see you again. In what, five years? 2025. I just say call it 2025, [00:52:53] Brett: [00:52:53] three, three to five years, [00:52:55] Ashley: [00:52:55] three to five. Okay. Three to five. [00:52:56] Brett: [00:52:56] I’ll have my people call your people. [00:52:59] Ashley: [00:52:59] Yeah, let’s say [00:53:00] January, uh, January 1st, 20, let’s say 20, 20, 20, 24. [00:53:05] Brett: [00:53:05] Yeah. [00:53:05] Ashley: [00:53:05] cause that’s about, it’s about three years from now. So this is about three years from now. So let’s just say, just send me an email, just, uh, just exclamation point. [00:53:12] Remind me, uh, to reach out [00:53:15] Brett: [00:53:15] we’ll see. We’ll see if you still remember who I am in three years. [00:53:19] Ashley: [00:53:19] I am getting old, so I might not. Let’s all be honest. [00:53:23] Brett: [00:53:23] All right. Well, have a great week. [00:53:26] Ashley: [00:53:26] You too.

This week’s guest is Pete Wright, podcaster, producer, and photographer. You may know him as the co-host of Taking Control: The ADHD Podcast. He joins us to talk about podcasting, movies, music, COVID-19 and a dizzying array of topics that only two ADHD podcasters could fit into an hour. Sponsor BetterHelp.com, affordable professional therapy and counseling from the comfort of your home. Get 10% off your first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/systematic. Show Links Pete’s Links Find Pete podcasting at TruStory.FM @petewright on Twitter Bartender Setapp The Next Reel Underworld Mythbusters: Shooting holes in a floor The Next Reel on Instagram Wobbly Board Wobbly Stool Pogo balls Bare Naked Ladies: Gordon Prince – Lovesexy Peter Murphy – Deep pomDeter – Call Me A Hole billie eilish You Should See Me in a Crown Dr. Sharon Saline on Take Control Top 3 Picks Radiant Saunas BSA6315 Harmony Deluxe Oversized Portable Sauna Withings BPM Connect Blood Pressure Cuff Prince: The Official Podcast Prince – Official Website Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! Thanks to BetterHelp.com for sponsoring this podcast. You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Pete [00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] this week’s guest is Pete Wright. Uh, podcasts are producer and photographer among many other things. I know him as the co-host of taking control of the ADHD podcast. Welcome to the show, Pete. [00:00:13] Pete: [00:00:13] Hey, Brett, glad to be here. [00:00:15] Brett: [00:00:15] So I, as far as your kind of day job goes, podcasts are a big part of your life. Is that fair? [00:00:22] Pete: [00:00:22] Yeah. Big, big part. Yeah. We’ve got, I’ve got, uh, I don’t know. It’s feels like 13 shows, something like that, whether it’s whether I’m producing for myself, like our personal shows or, uh, or for clients 13, 14, somewhere in there. [00:00:37] Brett: [00:00:37] Yeah, like a whole network’s worth. [00:00:39] Pete: [00:00:39] Yeah. True story.fm. Uh, and that’ll be the last blog. I don’t. I promise. [00:00:45] Brett: [00:00:45] Fair enough. Um, your, uh, your co-host on the ADHD podcast, Nikki is, uh, is scheduled to be a guest on this show as well. Um, she, she, she, her more from the, uh, [00:01:00] ADHD coach perspective than, than you’ll have, but [00:01:04] Pete: [00:01:04] no, I just, I just have the ADHD. She’s the coach part and that’s, that’s why we’re, you know, we’re like the wonder twins of ADHD, podcasting. So. She’s great. She’s amazing. I, I, we’ve been doing the show for 10 years this year and, uh, it’s been the community that’s come up around. It has been just really, uh, you know, for me personally is living with ADHD and my special brand of it. [00:01:24] Uh it’s the community has been incredible, um, for, for me. It’s great. [00:01:31] Brett: [00:01:31] Yeah, for sure. Um, we have a discord for overtired and systematic and the overtired discord has. Become pretty much an ADHD conversation place. Um, yeah, no, it’s really, it’s, it’s fun to connect with, uh, people who I guess know how to live with and work with their ADHD. if you spend too much time hearing from people who are [00:02:00] doing nothing, but, but suffering, like it’s fun to commiserate with people as well. But it’s really exciting to get like positive feedback from people too. [00:02:10] Pete: [00:02:10] It is, but, you know, for me, like, I really love hanging out with people who are, who are living with ADHD and people who are struggling to live with ADHD, but are trying and that, but are trying carries a lot of weight because like, that is a huge difference in the kind of people that are attracts, certainly attracted to our show and our community. [00:02:27] And we’ve got the discourse over too. And, um, it it’s just so illuminating when people come and have already given up and. You see the turnaround and they recognize that they’ve given up by just dent of hanging out in the server and watching people who are doing amazing things with their ADHD. Um, so it’s, it’s really cool. [00:02:52] Brett: [00:02:52] Well, I would say you you’ve been, uh, you’ve been a pretty successful, a good success story for ADHD [00:03:00] adult life. Um, what, what would you say if you had to say, uh, that there were benefits to ADHD, how would you, how would you coin that? [00:03:12]Pete: [00:03:12] I, uh, so, um, the, when, when I can control hyper-focus. It’s definitely a benefit. You know what I mean? Like I just find, I, I, I hear this a lot in people, particularly in the sort of people who don’t have ADHD, they’re saying ADHD is a superpower and hyper-focus is a superpower. And I just, I really. I hate it. [00:03:36] I hate that because like, those are people who don’t recognize that all the super power stuff is totally unregulated. Like I can’t control when I need to rip all my CD collection over a weekend. Like I can’t control, I can’t control that. And I can’t control when I’m working on a website and I forgotten to eat for 72 hours. [00:03:57] Like I can’t control that and it [00:04:00] directly impacts my health. And we had somebody on our show who said, um, You know, who told us that, uh, ADHD is, is one of those massively under, um, uh, acknowledged conditions. Just how dangerous it is that people with ADHD have a 12 year shorter lifespan than people who. [00:04:19] Or without ADHD because they don’t do things like take their medication. They don’t do things like, like, and not ADHD meds, like their heart medication. They don’t eat, they just eat cereal all the time. Like they just don’t take care of themselves because it’s it’s, their, their brain is not functioning in the, in the way that the system expects it to. [00:04:39] Function and that’s what makes it just so insidious. And so, you know, in terms of silver, silver linings, I’m I like to think I’m a pretty creative guy. And, um, I struggle with context switching. I get pretty engrossed in one thing, one tool for a kind of a long time. And I really struggle with [00:05:00] like, Shifting it’s been, it’s taken a lot of years to kind of, uh, build the muscles to adapt, um, and, and learn to move from one thing to another without completely like losing my thread. [00:05:11] But, um, generally I’m pretty creative and I, I really, I think I use my, my hyper-focused time. Well, when I find it. And, um, uh, apart from that, it’s, it’s kind of a lot of work being in the brain, you know? [00:05:25] Brett: [00:05:25] Oh, for sure. Um, you should try combining, uh, ADHD hyper-focus with bipolar mania. That is that’s a trip. [00:05:36] Pete: [00:05:36] Yeah, I I’m. I just I’m. I listened to some of your recent episodes now that you’re, you’re back in the, in the big chair and, uh, I’m just like God, more power to you, man. I just, your stories of what you have done to like, to, to move your brain in and around the space and time in which you live is laudable. [00:05:59] Brett: [00:05:59] That’s very kind of, [00:06:00] you. [00:06:00] Pete: [00:06:00] It’s really impressive. [00:06:01] Brett: [00:06:01] I, I feel like I’m, uh, in a constant mode of survival, but [00:06:06]Pete: [00:06:06] Yeah. I don’t think people, I mean, I think you present so well that I don’t think people, uh, largely probably underestimate how much work it is and probably how tiring it is just to, just to do your thing. [00:06:19] Brett: [00:06:19] it’s actually really nice to hear that because I feel like I, I, my, my whole life I’ve felt like. Um, if other people could be inside my head, they would be shocked. Like even as a kid, I understood that things, like I thought differently from everyone around me. And I think is it, is it an ADHD symptom to feel pain, more, uh, to be like more sensitive to pain? [00:06:48]Pete: [00:06:48] Like physical pain or others’ pain. [00:06:52] Brett: [00:06:52] Physical pain. [00:06:53]Pete: [00:06:53] I don’t know. I can’t answer that. [00:06:55] Brett: [00:06:55] Okay. I [00:06:56] Pete: [00:06:56] don’t th I [00:06:57] Brett: [00:06:57] all of [00:06:58] Pete: [00:06:58] yeah, maybe now I should just go back [00:07:00] to all the, all the stuff I’m feeling and figure out if I’m just feeling it more that makes this whole COVID thing, you [00:07:06] Brett: [00:07:06] well, I know that [00:07:07] Pete: [00:07:07] more severely. [00:07:08] Brett: [00:07:08] that ADHD people are more susceptible to issues of addiction. And issues of addiction often happen in people who are more sensitive to physical pain. So I thought maybe there was a correlation there I’m I’m, I’m both of those things. So, yeah. Anyway, yeah, we have so many different topics we can talk about. [00:07:32] Um, my ADHD brain is trying to narrow them down right now. This, this thing came up before the show, but I’m actually really excited to talk to somebody about though. Um, and it came up on over-tired as well, but there’s an app for the Mac called bartender and for ADHD, people who maybe need less clutter on their desktop, an app that [00:08:00] like basically removes things from your Macko S menu bar. [00:08:05] Is, it’s kind of a perfect ADHD tool for me. Do you use it? [00:08:11] Pete: [00:08:11] I use it. I I’ve used it for years and, uh, bartender three was just rock solid and completely just stable and trustworthy. And, uh, I really love. How easy it makes the menu bar and then, you know, big sir. And I don’t have, um, when it comes to like technology and software updates and getting new stuff, I don’t have any breaks. [00:08:36] And so I know because it’s my production machine, I should not have upgraded to big Sur. And I also knew immediately that I would. And so I did, and bartender four was only released as a, you know, big Sur ready beta and it acted as a beta. It is, the problem is it’s so beautiful. They’ve just done such amazing work on this thing. [00:08:58] And I don’t know how many, how [00:09:00] many in your like hidden sub bar? How many apps do you have in there? [00:09:04] Brett: [00:09:04] Let me take a quick look about 15. [00:09:07] Pete: [00:09:07] Okay. I’ve got, I’ve got 25. In there. And then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, that I leave always active on the menu bar. Uh, and, [00:09:20] Brett: [00:09:20] ones because I have another 10 always hidden ones. [00:09:24]Pete: [00:09:24] always hidden ones. I actually, now that you say that, I don’t know what, I let me open my preferences because I don’t know what I have always hidden. Um, always hidden. I have nothing always hidden. Um, I have a bunch that are like, you know, because it does that awesome thing. Like when there’s activity, it will show them on the primary menu bar. [00:09:41] So if it’s stuff like Dropbox, if it’s acting up, it’ll show up there or Backblaze, you know, it’ll show up there. And so I, I really, I love, love, love the way it works and it’s just, I, I complained about it because the beta broke. And it started asking you for payment and wouldn’t accept payment. I, of course I want to pay, I want [00:10:00] to pay twice. [00:10:00] Like I just give, let me have it, but something didn’t work. And I, my brain just like flipped out for a minute. The deal is with, I cannot recommend this thing highly enough if you’re on and you want to just wait until it’s super stable, wait until it’s really right, but it’s worth it. And, and the, the current beta it’s after I restarted got everything worked out. [00:10:20] It’s fine. It’s [00:10:22] Brett: [00:10:22] on Catalina, they, they dropped the secondary bar and you basically, you would have to. It, it would re-expand in the menu bar itself and there was this delay to it and it got really, um, like it was still so beneficial that I wouldn’t want to live without it, but the, the delay was, uh, annoying to me. [00:10:44] And now in big Sur, everything is back to being instant. You have the secondary bar, you can opt to have it, like have the bar display, anytime you hover over the. Menu bar. Yeah. Uh, the, the [00:11:00] beta expired, uh, wasn’t supposed to, and then it wouldn’t it, like you said, required payment. And when you go to the site, it would tell you, you don’t have to pay. [00:11:12] There’s a big banner at the top that says you don’t have to pay, but I skipped that. My brain just didn’t register that. I went straight to the pay button. Uh, pay the upgrade price. Even though I use the setup version, this is what kills me. Like I should have known, I use the setup version and I still, I like I had a, a license anyway, cause I used it prior to set up. [00:11:38] And so I paid the upgrade price then realized that not only did I not need to in order to use the beta, but I had it all for free with setup anyway. And I still don’t regret paying for it. [00:11:52] Pete: [00:11:52] How, how are the bagels paid is handled and set up. Do you had just have access to it through their license? Cause I’m not a setup [00:11:59] Brett: [00:11:59] Yeah. [00:12:00] It, [00:12:00] Pete: [00:12:00] I don’t have [00:12:00] Brett: [00:12:00] it basically like you always have the latest version at no extra charge with that app. And in this case, that means it’s running the beta for, uh, for big Sur users. [00:12:13] Pete: [00:12:13] Okay. [00:12:14] Brett: [00:12:14] You don’t have set [00:12:15] Pete: [00:12:15] Yeah, it’s fantastic. No, I know. Right. Uh, God. See that this is the, this is where I start carrying shame. I know. I probably should. I don’t know. I mean, I guess I need to look through all the, all my apps and see how many are also on there, but now see I’m I’m at that inflection point or beyond the inflection point where I have so many apps that are probably in set up that I’ve already paid for that now is how much value is there. [00:12:38]Brett: [00:12:38] well, they’ve hit 200 apps now and, and I, because I’m, I use, I use enough apps. Only on set app that it’s worth the cost to me. But then I also, all of the apps that I own licenses for, I also use the setup version. So part of my monthly payment goes [00:13:00] to those developers as like continuing support. So it’s of course I’m a developer and full disclosure. [00:13:08] I get set up for free, uh, because I have an app, I have an app onset app. [00:13:14] Pete: [00:13:14] On set up. [00:13:15] Brett: [00:13:15] Um, but that said I would gladly pay the monthly fee. [00:13:20] Pete: [00:13:20] How does it, so how does it work for you as a developer? I’m assuming it’s marked is that that’s what you have on there. You didn’t, but, okay. So how does that work for you? Do you find it as a developer? Are you getting the kind of value that you expected better? Worse? [00:13:34] Brett: [00:13:34] Eight. So it, yes. My, my monthly payments have consistently gone up for a couple of years now. Um, and it has, it has not grown at the way that they said it would when they first pitched it to developers, because that was one of the early ones. Um, but it has been a steady source of recurring income or reliable growing source [00:14:00] of income that I can count on, uh, repeating every month. [00:14:05] And it hasn’t cannibalized my other methods of sale to an extent that would negate its value. So I’m not getting rich off it, but I’m also not disappointed with what I’m getting out of it. [00:14:19]Pete: [00:14:19] Well, and I mean, any opportunity to have a line that creates a floor in your business is fantastic. Right? Given how variable everything else is. [00:14:30]Brett: [00:14:30] totally. Yeah. [00:14:30] Pete: [00:14:30] So that’s great. Okay. You know, maybe just for you, I’ve already paid for Mar I know I’ve paid for Mark more than I need to because I love it so much. [00:14:40] And also now I should just join, set up and only use Mark. Right. Is that, that helps you even more if I just, I just do that. [00:14:47] Brett: [00:14:47] It does. It’s not my recommendation. Like there are so many good, good apps on there now, but, uh, including bartender. Yeah. [00:14:57] Pete: [00:14:57] I just paid for it. [00:15:00] Uh, [00:15:01] Brett: [00:15:01] So one of your, uh, one of your podcasts, one of your many is the next real you are. Are you a big movie guy? [00:15:09]Pete: [00:15:09] Yeah, no, I’m a pretty big movie guy. I, my, uh, initial partner and partner and true story is guy named Andy Nelson. And he, um, he’s a, uh, filmmaker and producer and screenwriter. We actually met in college. We were, we were RAs together and we happen to be duty partners and we just, we went to university of Colorado and we just wander the halls of our dorm. [00:15:31] Um, Shout out Baker hall and, uh, and talk about movies and, and probably. Ignore a lot of behavior that we should have written up as RAs, you know? Uh, but we did talk about a lot of movies. And so, uh, in 2011 I finally wrote him and I was like, we need to talk about movies as podcast. Uh, this is going to be great. [00:15:51] It’s gonna be great. So we’ve been doing it ever since we, uh, each week we take, we sort of peel apart a different movie as part of a series, uh, that we’re talking about. So we’ll talk about. [00:16:00] Um, we’re, we’re in the middle of the underworld series right now because, um, Kate Beckinsale, we posted a picture of Kate Beckinsale on Instagram, like a year ago and it blew up the next real Instagram. [00:16:10] Like we get some traffic on Instagram, but Kate Beckinsale pictures are huge. And so we thought let’s just do all the underworld movies. So five weeks of underworld movies, anything with PVC [00:16:22] Brett: [00:16:22] Would that happen with any attractive woman or is there something special about Kate back in style? [00:16:28] Pete: [00:16:28] There is something inscrutable mercurial about Kate Beckinsale. I don’t know, but we’ve, we’ve got, you know, 10 years of movies and the Kate Beckinsale factor is a legit thing. I don’t understand. I don’t understand it. But, um, anyway, so we’ve been having a really good time talking about vampires and werewolves, but we’ve talked about all kinds of things. [00:16:51] So yeah, I’m a, I’m a movie guy. [00:16:52] Brett: [00:16:52] I’ll admit I’ve never watched any of the underworld movies. Yeah. [00:16:57] Pete: [00:16:57] I mean you’re you’re okay. It’s I mean, they are [00:17:00] exactly what you get on the tin. You know what I mean? Like it’s not, they’re not, not under promising anything, so, uh, yeah. It’s, uh, you know, it’s good. Uh, but they did the, the thing that I like about it, they do, they’re very creative from production design perspective. [00:17:14] Right. They do things in those movies because you could just feel that the team is standing around on set and saying, you know, what would be cool? And nobody’s there to say. But does that make sense? And that’s kind of fantastic. Right? And so that’s why it is a series with stunts that actually get tested on MythBusters. [00:17:34] And I just love that. Like, there’s a sequence where our main character, Kate Beckinsale is standing on the floor of this hallway and the werewolves are coming and she has these two, um, machine pistols and she shoots a hole in the floor around her. Right. She just starts spinning and shoots her [00:17:49] Brett: [00:17:49] Yeah. [00:17:50] Pete: [00:17:50] Right. Right. So it’s nonsense practically, but even when you see it debunked, you still love it in the movie. Like it is [00:18:00] just, it’s crazy and dumb and awesome. So guilty [00:18:04] Brett: [00:18:04] I’ll admit, I don’t listen to enough podcasts who have gotten around to this one. Do you guys get into a lot of the production details? More so than, uh, like plot and storyline? [00:18:15]Pete: [00:18:15] Yeah, we do. Um, because we’re super into, like, how did it get made? Like where did the, where the ideas come from? How did they get it financed? Um, you know, and then you know how to do an award season and how does that? And Andy is a, he’s a spreadsheet guy. And just as a producer, he loves. Coming up with metrics that kind of unify or, or allow us to normalize performance of movies over time. [00:18:37] And so he came up with adjusted profit per finished minute of the movie. And so he adjusts per era. So you can actually compare, you know, something from 1940 with something from 2012, uh, because he is rationalize those dollars. And he’s, he’s looked at the budget per finished minute of the film. So you don’t get the like [00:19:00] Titanic factor or, you know, movies that are just incredibly long are incredibly short, ending up being wildly more or less profitable. [00:19:06] So you can actually see how did these movies do in their era in terms of general performance. And it’s really fun to start looking at that and see, like, what are the most popular movies, um, you know, per finished [00:19:18] Brett: [00:19:18] Yeah, I may have to check this podcast out because this sounds a lot like the way I watch movies. Um, [00:19:25] Pete: [00:19:25] Yeah. It’s, it’s great. Uh, we, we have a really good time with it and, um, yeah, we, we like to learn about the movies as you know. It’s good. [00:19:31] Brett: [00:19:31] have you, have you ever listened to over-tired with Christina Warren? [00:19:35]Pete: [00:19:35] Yeah. Big fan. I, yeah, she’s great. [00:19:38] Brett: [00:19:38] kind of person who adds all of those details and facts too. Like we talk about a TV show and she knows like what this actor was doing in their personal life. At the time this scene was filmed and can add these dimensions, this data that I wouldn’t otherwise have. [00:19:57] I found that very intriguing. [00:19:59]Pete: [00:19:59] Yeah, [00:20:00] right. Like, for example, just speaking in, in the, uh, uh, underworld universe, we call it underworld, uh, uh, and. The Len Weissman was the director behind it. And he was married to Kate Beckinsale and he’s directing Kate Beckinsale and Scott Speedman in this like steamy sex scene. That’s also nonsense. [00:20:21] And, uh, we just like those kinds of things, like how people put them, put their heads in place as professionals to do things that personally we would, we would find challenging to do. We love talking about that? [00:20:33] Brett: [00:20:33] So it can, I, can I just rapid switch topics as if we were both ADHD, [00:20:39]Pete: [00:20:39] Dare you. [00:20:40]Brett: [00:20:40] you mentioned. So we got a standing desk, uh, mostly for my back, uh, and I have a treadmill for it, which I use on and off. Like, not all the time that I’m at my desk. You mentioned you got a wobble board. [00:20:57] Pete: [00:20:57] I got wobble. Everything. [00:20:58] Brett: [00:20:58] Tell tell me how [00:21:00] and why not the house so much as well at first, explain what it is. And then, then explain why [00:21:07]Pete: [00:21:07] Uh, so, um, there are a number of related issues to, to why I got the, the wobble board. It’s the fluid stance, balanced board for standing desk. And, uh, it’s essentially made of like old rubber tires, you know, and. And, um, it’s just a board, looks like a snowboard, uh, not as long as a snowboard, obviously, but it has a bulge in the middle that allows you 360 degree rotation. [00:21:32] And, um, I got it. Uh, four. Actually for circulation because I had COVID and we, and I’m having some long hauler stuff. And I don’t know if that’s interesting at all, but we can talk about it if you want. But the point is my doctor says, we need to try and get your feet moving more throughout the day, like feet and ankles and vascular system, and let’s get, get things going. [00:21:55] So try this wobble board. And so I got the wobble board and it did what it needed to do for that, [00:22:00] but the, the knock-on benefit that I did not see coming was. What it requires of my brain to stay engaged at the standing desk while balancing on this ridiculous thing is just enough to raise the intention level like that. [00:22:20] W that, uh, attention floor for ADHD that allows me to focus longer than I, um, have been able to here to for in the past. Like it’s amazing for me. Um, and, and it really fits my, my kind of inattentive, just having, having something that requires me to engage my core, engage my feet. And my knees allows me to focus on whatever project I’m working on, better than it ever has. [00:22:47] It’s great. Yeah, it’s crazy. It’s the equivalent. Like we can’t go to coffee shops, but I used to do that all the time. Like I, I built my entire tech stack so that I could pick it up and leave and go someplace else [00:23:00] because I need that change of environment. Like I need coffee, shop noise. I need people moving around. [00:23:04] Like something to allow me to focus through, allows me to focus more. And this is that thing at home that I’ve discovered after like 10 months. Now that is. It’s been crazy successful for me. And I’ve, I’ve been using it for a month and a half and I just, uh, I love it. I, there is not a minute that I am now standing at my standing desk that I’m not on my wobble. [00:23:24] Brett: [00:23:24] I may have to try this. [00:23:26]Pete: [00:23:26] It’s really cool. [00:23:27] Brett: [00:23:27] quite the, a testimonial. And I’m betting. That’s not how they market it. [00:23:33] Pete: [00:23:33] No, and I, I don’t think they will, but it works. It works great. And they’re, they’re not, the cheapest are a lot of models. They’re not the cheapest. This is, I just want to underscore it because when I said wobble board, like my I’ve got a daughter is 18 and she she’s, um, uh, athletic and really likes her trick wobble. [00:23:51] Set. Right. Which is like the thing that they do tricks on. Right. It’s like the wobble part is not attached to the board. It’s essentially a, like a four by eight on a [00:24:00] cone. And you do all kinds of skateboard tricks. This is not that this is not dangerous. Like if you, if you tip too far, you’re falling like an inch and a half, like you’re really. [00:24:08] Okay. Um, so that was that. Okay. And I also, [00:24:12]Brett: [00:24:12] W how, how old are you? [00:24:14]Pete: [00:24:14] I just turned 48. [00:24:17] Brett: [00:24:17] not. So do you remember in the nineties, there were these things? I think they were called Pogo balls. It was it. [00:24:24] Pete: [00:24:24] Oh, Oh, he was like a ball, a squishy jumping ball. You put your feet on it and you held onto like a rope [00:24:29] Brett: [00:24:29] no, there was like, there was like a, it was like a, it looked like a UFO. There was like a platform around a squishy jumping ball and you would kind of like squeeze the ball between your feet and then just jump up and down on it. That’s what I’m picturing every time you say wobble board. [00:24:43]Pete: [00:24:43] I don’t feel like a grownup human. When I say, I say wobble board, I don’t, I feel there is not a little bit of shame when I say, Oh, my ADHD requires a wobble board. I’ll I own that. [00:24:57] Brett: [00:24:57] fair enough. [00:24:58] Pete: [00:24:58] Yeah. [00:24:59] Brett: [00:24:59] Um, [00:25:00] so, um, [00:25:01] Pete: [00:25:01] What else you got? You’re going to change gears again. I’m ready. [00:25:04] Brett: [00:25:04] I, I probably am. Let’s talk about music. [00:25:08]Pete: [00:25:08] Okay. Yeah. [00:25:10] Brett: [00:25:10] So w w what, what, what is kind of your, your musical history? Like what, what were you into in high school? [00:25:18]Pete: [00:25:18] Um, well, okay, so. I remember there are musical moments that like, when you ask that question, I remember. So, so clearly do you have that experience? Like, cause I was just, I was transitioning from vinyl to CD and uh, because I got my first car and I was super excited about putting a CD player in the deck and. [00:25:44] I remember that driveway moment when I was also, do you remember like BMG or were you ever a part of the CD male clubs? Right. So Columbia house, I was a member of both of those because I was really a responsible with credit cards and I will never [00:26:00] forget putting the CD in the deck, sitting in my driveway and hearing, um, Hello? [00:26:08]Hey, another night, right? Gordon summer of like 92 from Barenaked ladies w is seared into my. Uh, into my brain, that was an incredible experience and a great production. And I can, I think the same thing with like love sexy in 88. Um, I’m, uh, I’m one of those that era of Prince fans, I’m a massive Prince fan. [00:26:31] And so, but I just remember that production in particular, um, Peter Murphy’s deep, uh, was 89 and I’m a huge fan of, of that era. Of music, but I mean, I’m the cure and concrete blonde and, um, Prince and I mean I’m in [00:26:51] Brett: [00:26:51] okay. Okay. Have your musical tastes changed in your, your later years? [00:26:56]Pete: [00:26:56] Yeah. Well, I think so. I mean, I, I learned to, [00:27:00] I, I also play right. I played the piano and, and, um, guitar not great. But enough to like hang around around a campfire and I sing. And actually that’s how I got through college was like singing on the street, uh, with an acapella group and, uh, in New York city. [00:27:17] And, um, that was so I, I kind of have, um, I have those musical. Uh, veins and, uh, and so they’ve, I just was exposed to a lot. And, um, so I love jazz. I love, um, but, but I also love trance and, uh, I really love nine inch nails and, uh, every time I can, I’m making dinner and I’ll just start screaming, head like a hole and my kids hate me for it. [00:27:46] Brett: [00:27:46] do you ever hear call me a hole? Somebody, uh, I forget the artist’s name. Uh, and it got pulled off of SoundCloud, but it was a mashup of call me maybe and had [00:28:00] like a hole it was nothing short of brilliant. It was [00:28:04] Pete: [00:28:04] That is high jump, low ceiling man. Like [00:28:07]Brett: [00:28:07] Um, yeah, no, I’ll, I will see if I can find a link to that for the show notes. Uh, if it exists anywhere anymore, but it is if you’re a fan of the pretty hate machine era, nine inch nails, and you have any appreciation for sugar pop, it is an amazing combination. [00:28:26] Pete: [00:28:26] So I look at what Apple music is recommending me right now. Just to give you an idea and like the top screen, Mason Williams, uh, phonograph, right? Uh, classical gas era sealed 1991, uh, maroon Barenaked ladies, uh, glee, the music volume five and Meghan Trainor essentials. What has happened here? So, uh, I am, I’m embarrassed. [00:28:49] To even say that out loud on your podcast, but that is what it exists right [00:28:55] Brett: [00:28:55] It’s out there now. [00:28:56] Pete: [00:28:56] list, in my list in now. Yeah. [00:28:58] Brett: [00:28:58] mine, mine [00:29:00] is, uh, equally eclectic, but. Um, I think, I think I’ve always, and I don’t know why, but I’ve always leaned towards what would be considered alternative. Um, and not like Nirvana alternative. Like I didn’t even like Nirvana. I wanted stuff that nobody else was listening to possibly because nobody else was listening to it. [00:29:25] Um, in, in my adult years, that’s definitely shifted. I totally get into. I ended up popular music now. Um, [00:29:33] Pete: [00:29:33] know, let me, let me ask you though. Controversial opinion. What do you, where do you stand as somebody who’s musical? Genealogy is as you state, where do you stand on somebody like Billie Eilish? [00:29:45] Brett: [00:29:45] I love Billie Eilish, like so [00:29:47] Pete: [00:29:47] too. Right? Why do my kids 18 and 14? Not like Billie Eilish. That is bananas to me. [00:29:56] Brett: [00:29:56] I’ve [00:29:57] Pete: [00:29:57] She’s like callbacks to everything that I [00:30:00] [00:29:59] Brett: [00:29:59] Yeah. Yeah. I have watched so many videos, like, uh, like behind the music type stuff, interviews with her and I love her whole process. I love her voice and she writes creepy, weird music that I love. [00:30:13] Pete: [00:30:13] So, and her videos are amazing from a filmmaking perspective, from a production today. She is stunning. She’s stunning. [00:30:23] Brett: [00:30:23] My, uh, my number one played track of 2020 was, uh, you should, you should see me in a crown by Billie Eilish [00:30:31]Pete: [00:30:31] So [00:30:32] Brett: [00:30:32] in that video, that video with all the spiders, like shot on an iPhone with spiders crawling everywhere. Amazing. [00:30:40] Pete: [00:30:40] Oh good. Well, and the other one where she used the, what is it where she’s got the, the, she falls into the oil slick and is walking with the world on fire around her. I [00:30:48] Brett: [00:30:48] I can’t remember what song that [00:30:49] Pete: [00:30:49] but the video is crazy. Good. I saw I’m talking to here’s another, I’m going to change gears. I’m talking to my mom and. [00:30:58] She’s I regret to tell you she doesn’t [00:31:00] listen to systematic. And she tells me, this is some months ago. She says, well, that’s it. I can’t vote for Biden. And I said, what’s going on? I don’t mean to get political, but I have just a little bit. And it says he was endorsed by Cardi B. And I just watched that wop video and I can’t stand it. [00:31:20] It’s contributing to the downfall of moral fabric in this country. And I was like, okay. Uh, all right. I had to learn into a massive text thread with my mother about, um, about reclaiming sexuality and hardcore rap. And it’s about damn time that we have more of this. And now we have, you know, Cardi B who’s always been kind of on the forefront of. [00:31:47] This, but, uh, you know, I think, uh, uh, Ariana Grande’s latest album is like all over the, the, you know, uh, it’s super porny and, uh, it’s it’s like, [00:32:00] I don’t know. Where do you stand on, on this stuff, but like the moral fabric of women owning their sexuality and music. [00:32:07] Brett: [00:32:07] Oh, it’s, that’s such a, uh, uh, landmine, uh, field. [00:32:14] Pete: [00:32:14] is it too? Is it, is it too much? [00:32:16] Brett: [00:32:16] I mean, because, so I hang out with a bunch of like, uh, um, feminist, uh, uh, theory professors. And I hear like, I realize every time that these kinds of topics come up, I realized that there are so many nuances to the discussion that I can’t. Like you can’t paraphrase. [00:32:41] Uh, like to the extent that I don’t have a stance so much, like there’s so many, um, questions of the, um, the entire kind of sphere of academic feminism. [00:33:00] Uh, there’s a lot of disagreement and, and rightfully so. I mean, there’s a lot of, lot of different voices to be heard there. Um, so I’m more of a, I like to listen, but I don’t ever feel comfortable, really having a hard and fast opinion on any of it because a lot of it is constantly changing and updating. [00:33:26]Pete: [00:33:26] Yeah, right, right. Well, and I totally get that. And I feel like it was a couple of years ago. I had to actually FIM my year and I wrote. Uh, above my computer on my wall, I just put a post-it that says, do you really need to care about this? And it just to remind me that I may be having an emotional reaction to a subject that is, um, that I don’t, I don’t really need to care that much about it. [00:33:51] Like it’s the world will keep spinning. I choose choose my, my heavy topics carefully. And. This one [00:34:00] surprised me because a it’s coming from family and it seemed, it seems like I’m getting more and more of those kinds of conversations where, um, where my worldview is departing from people that I care about and trust and have grown up with. [00:34:17] And that is a new thing for me in this era. And, and so, uh, I think, uh, Cardi B kind of is representative of, Oh, I gotta, I gotta develop a new muscle here. I’ve got to learn how to have these harder conversations. If there are things I care about and they’re people I care about, uh, because it’s not going to get easy. [00:34:38] Brett: [00:34:38] Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:40]Pete: [00:34:40] I dunno. [00:34:42] Brett: [00:34:42] I, uh, I, [00:34:42] Pete: [00:34:42] That’s, what’s, it’s, what’s going on in my [00:34:44] Brett: [00:34:44] I have a similar note to myself that just says, is it worth it? That makes me. Pause when I’m in manic ADHD, hyperfocused phases that I have to pause and do like a cost benefit analysis on whatever I’ve been obsessed about for three hours. [00:35:00] [00:34:59] Pete: [00:34:59] Yeah, totally. I, we had a guest on our show, uh, Sharon saline, uh, Dr. Sharon saline. She’s amazing. And she said she has an acronym. That’s wait now. And she uses it for, you know, people with who have, uh, impulsivity challenges. And the acronym is why am I talking now? And I love that so much and we’ve adapted it in our house to be like, it doesn’t work as well. [00:35:22] Why am I doing this now? Uh, because both my kids are diagnosed and, um, and so they, they. We share that as a trio, we share that, that little affirmation and we use it on each other. Like sometimes my kids will come in my office and they’ll see me just knocking around doing stuff that’s not related clearly not related to my work, like just diving into more YouTube videos or something. [00:35:45] And they’ll ask me, why are you doing this right now? And I have to stop and think, Oh God, I’ve trained them to, well, they actually see through me. [00:35:52]Brett: [00:35:52] So here’s a topic that, that might lead to more discussion than we have time for. But how has, [00:36:00] uh, how has ADHD affected you specifically during this pandemic? [00:36:06]Pete: [00:36:06] Yeah, that’s, that’s pretty big. [00:36:08] Brett: [00:36:08] Yeah. [00:36:09] Pete: [00:36:09] Um, well, okay. So the very short story is, uh, I, I spent. Uh, my, my ADHD experience is more around recovery and, um, and because I had ADHD or I had COVID, I had ADHD for the month of July also. I had COVID and, uh, and so I was, you know, I was in bed. I was, it was one of those cases where I never had to go to the hospital, but it was like we were monitoring my pulse ox every hour. [00:36:36] And if it dropped below this number, that it was called the emergency room and it never dropped below that number. But it was one of those things where I just was, I spent July not breathing and, uh, dealing with just crazy inflammation and just, it was, it was incredibly painful. And I am, I am ridiculously gun shy about this disease as a result now I don’t. [00:36:57] And so. Uh, after I, I [00:37:00] started getting better and started going back to work. We discovered lots of vascular, like cardiovascular issues that were lingering. And as a result, my doctor’s given me all these tools and things to do at home that forced me. Essentially to focus on the stuff that gives me the greatest anxiety in my life. [00:37:20] Right. And so I’m happy I’m going to take my blood pressure, you know, three or four times a day. At random times, I have to constantly get the new Apple watch. Cause I, it does the pulse-ox easily and quickly and I don’t have to carry around another device. And so I’m constantly monitoring my blood sugars level and that like, I have a. [00:37:41] A deep anxiety of heart issues and I just have lived with it forever. And it, you know, I, one of the other podcasts I do is called what’s that smell that sometimes funny podcast about humans and their anxieties and. You know, we try to learn about anxieties and people write in and share their anxieties for us to learn about. [00:37:58] And one of them is, [00:38:00] is for me, it’s just a whole internal body stuff. I’m super aware of what’s going on in my heart. Dad had a heart attack. I was his primary caregiver. It’s terrifying. It’s terrifying. And so the act of like, my ADHD is so triggering right now because I have been told. To do this, to focus on it. [00:38:21] Like I don’t, it’s not like I can sit back and be mindful and say, okay, I just don’t have to think about this right now. Try to change, change gears, try to find joy in something else. I like I have to do this. And it’s, uh, it’s bananas. It’s it’s taken me in some pretty dark places. Like just more experiences of panic, more experiences of false symptoms of, of heart attacks. [00:38:41] Like I’m, I’ve, I’ve never been more rot. By my, what my ADHD is telling me to think about. Then now it’s, it’s hard. [00:38:54] Brett: [00:38:54] so are you fighting against your ADHD? To focus on this stuff, or are you fighting or is your [00:39:00] ADHD overtaking you in this case? [00:39:03] Pete: [00:39:03] Well, it’s overtaking. I think that’s the, that’s the biggest challenge for me is that my ADHD is like, so I, I just like super into the data and the graphs and I’m charting my blood pressure and my systolic and diastolic. And how are they changing? And what are the tools that are working? And in the background, my ADHD is not letting me turn that off. [00:39:22] Do you know what I mean? Like you just, you live in that sort of ever-present void of analysis and thought and introspection, and at the same time, it’s physically exhausting. And the, the panic attacks that are, I mean, I went on this, like, it was the last panic attack I had, it was like 18 hours. And I was just like in tears, on the couch and my wife is holding me and she’s like, you know, we’re just trying to, to, you know, we’re trying to engage it and trying to embrace it. [00:39:51] And that’s, um, You know that that’s one of the things I’ve been learning with a therapist. I do a podcast with him. He said, um, you know, [00:40:00] when you’re, when you’re engaged in a panic state, um, one of the ways you can sort of start to, well, my words, not his trick, your brain is to say, okay, Panic. Like, I, I feel you come and bring it on and you can really engage it and say, look, give me that panic attack. [00:40:15] Let’s go. Here’s what it feels like. When is my left arm going to go numb? Um, when am I going to have shortness of breath? When am I going to start crying? Like, when am I going to, when are these things going to happen? And invariably. They, they don’t, when you get practiced enough at this strategy, you can engage that state enough that you can trick your brain and say, and soften the blow of what you would normally expect. [00:40:41] And I’m still very new at engaging. And it’s really hard to say, okay, let me have this terrible experience right now. Um, and, uh, you know, it’s like, it’s like the invisible bridge in. Uh, the last crusade, you know, it’s like, I want to kick dirt out and see if there really is an invisible bridge [00:41:00] there. And, uh, you can’t see the bridge and yet I still have to take a step. [00:41:04] And, and I find that very challenging. [00:41:06] Brett: [00:41:06] Do you find that the act of. Doing something like taking your blood pressure, increases your blood pressure. [00:41:12]Pete: [00:41:12] Yeah. When I first started doing this protocol, it absolutely felt that way, but my blood pressure was already like stage two. Hypertensive and like, like it was so high that they’re like, we don’t really understand how you’re walking around right now. And, uh, I don’t want to spoil my first pick of top three things, but, uh, I did find something that actually really helps me turn it around quickly. [00:41:38] And now I think I’m pretty good. And, and the blood pressure has dropped pretty significantly over the last, you know, eight weeks. And so things are, things are working. Okay. But I do have that lab coat thing, like. Uh, you know, they take my blood pressure anytime I go to the dentist and, and they, the result, the result is always, are you okay? [00:41:56] Like, do we need to call someone? I’m like, that’s fine. It’s a lab coat [00:42:00] anxiety. Right? Uh, yeah. I really struggle with that. [00:42:02] Brett: [00:42:02] I had, uh, I had to one time at the doctor’s office, I had to verbally decline to go to the emergency room. Like my blood pressure was high enough that they were legally obligated to send me to the emergency room and I had to offer a verbal, uh, verbally decline that, um, [00:42:24] Pete: [00:42:24] Now that, and that’s just like, w do you, do have you, do you have any sort of practice around monitoring your blood [00:42:29] Brett: [00:42:29] Yes. I, I check my blood pressure, not daily, but a few times a week. And I take medication for blood pressure. And the last time I had a panic attack was it was triggered by taking my blood pressure and, and thinking it was too high. And then it led to like taking it again and it was even higher and it just kind of spiraled. [00:42:50] Um, did not go well, I missed, I missed my psychiatry appointment because I was having a panic attack because I knew they were going to take my blood pressure when I [00:43:00] got there. So I wanted to have some idea like too, I could tell them no, it was, here’s what my reading was before my lab coat syndrome kicked in. [00:43:09] And then I was like, Oh my God, I can’t go. I can’t let them take my blood pressure when it’s this high. Yeah. [00:43:16] Pete: [00:43:16] How do you deal with, how do you deal with needles? [00:43:18] Brett: [00:43:18] fine with needles. I was a heroin addict. I do fine with needles. [00:43:21] Pete: [00:43:21] you know, I should’ve, I should’ve thought about that before I asked that question. Of course. I know that. I know your back’s. I know your origin story. I am hugely needle-phobic and so I have to, I have to get, like, they use the baby needles on me. They use infant needles to like draw blood, so it takes longer, but I will re like the eyes roll back and I’ll I’ll I’ll I drop every time. [00:43:40] It’s, it’s very challenging and dumb. And so, [00:43:43] Brett: [00:43:43] Yeah, that would be, that would be rough. I actually really enjoy, uh, when they, when they take blood samples and stuff, I like to watch. It’s a weird fascination I have. [00:43:53] Pete: [00:43:53] I’m not tracking with this right now. [00:43:55]Brett: [00:43:55] All right. Well, I’m going to take a quick moment here to talk [00:44:00] about, uh, today’s sponsor, which is better help, uh, online, uh, remote therapy that I’m actually really excited about. Um, so for me, living with 80 ADHD, bipolar kind of is one of the hurdles I have to overcome, uh, on my journey to happiness. Um, and I think everyone has something that’s preventing them from achieving their goals. [00:44:26] Better help is professional therapy available remotely. Uh, you just fill out a detailed questionnaire and they match you with professional therapists. That’s perfect for you licensed in the state where you live. And then you connect in a safe and private online environment in whatever way works for you. [00:44:42] You can do just text messages or you can do weekly video calls. Uh, yeah. So, uh, whatever you’re comfortable with, but all from the comfort of your own home. Uh, once you filled out your questionnaire, you can start communicating with your counselor and under 24 hours. And [00:45:00] this isn’t self-help it’s professional counseling. [00:45:02] I see a psychiatrist who takes care of all my prescription needs, but I honestly, I don’t have great access to any kind of therapy where I live. Uh, I’ve never found. A counselor that I really meshed with, uh, which is why I got excited about better help. Um, I filled out the questionnaire. I got matched with a therapist who specialized in my needs within about three hours. [00:45:26] And I had my first session last week. And I have to say I had a really great day afterward. Uh, it was easy professional, and I think it’s going to be really helpful for me. Um, it’s more affordable than traditional counseling to financial aid is available in many areas. And in addition to things like ADHD and bipolar, there are counselors who specialize in depression, stress, anger, LGBT matters, grief, sleep trauma. [00:45:51] Just about any specific need you have. Uh, I’ve had my own share of loss lately. So I found opening up to my therapist about my grieving process to [00:46:00] be a major help. Uh, and of course, anything you do share is completely confidential. So for my listeners, I want you all to start living a happier life today. [00:46:11] Uh, if you use my special link, you’ll get 10% off your first month. Uh, visit better help.com/systematic. Join over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health. Again, that’s better help. H E L p.com/systematic. So a big thanks to better help for supporting the show today. And that brings us to our top three picks. [00:46:35] Okay. [00:46:36] Pete: [00:46:36] Uh, the top three picks. This was, uh, excruciating. [00:46:41] Brett: [00:46:41] Really narrowing it down or finding [00:46:43] Pete: [00:46:43] Yeah. Oh, [00:46:44] Brett: [00:46:44] so weird. Like there’s this dichotomy of people. And I like the opposite. I think it was last week. Well, we took a month off, but last episode, um, no, two episodes ago. Yeah. [00:47:00] I have the people I talk to and it is about half and half. Can’t find three things or they can’t narrow it down to three things and it’s a complete opposite approach to this. [00:47:10]Pete: [00:47:10] That’s funny. Well, it’s like, like I went back through your show notes in the podcast just to scroll down. I love that you include links to these things in the show notes, because it’s so easy to just scan and I don’t have anything that anybody has picked yet. I don’t think, uh, so I’m, uh, I’m excited about it. [00:47:26] I hope I hope some things are interesting to [00:47:28] Brett: [00:47:28] All right. Well, what’s your first one. [00:47:30]Pete: [00:47:30] The first one is related. Actually two of them are actually related to my healing process and this one is a bit more luxurious. It is a sauna. Uh, it is the radiant sauna, harmony deluxe oversized, portable sauna, cabin size. It’s ridiculous. You look ridiculous in it, but it’s one of the it’s like cloth it’s like that heat insulated claw fabric. [00:47:53] And you zip yourself up in it in a chair and it is an infrared sauna. So your head [00:48:00] sticks out the top. And your hands. It has a little hand. If you want to like, you know, hold your phone or an iPad or do something, and then you just crank the heat. I crank it to 150 degrees and I sit in it for an hour a day. [00:48:11] And I’m not kidding you, man. It drops my blood pressure, 20 points doing immediate before and after, um, readings. Um, you get a good sweat on it. Improves my circulation. It just. It’s incredibly relaxing. It just feels great. So an in-room like we keep it in the corner of our bedroom and it’s, it’s an interim sauna and it’s, it’s crazy. [00:48:37] I never, in a million years would have expected that I would be a guy recommending a personal sauna on systematic, but here we are, this is the cross, which we will [00:48:47] Brett: [00:48:47] I, uh, I go to a, uh, health center that has a sauna available and it’s, I think it’s IRR, it’s a dry sauna and, [00:49:00] uh, I can’t go over about 120 in it. Uh, it’s like, it’s a room you go in and sit down and I get really bored and really sweaty, and I’ve never found it. Um, like, I definitely found it helpful for health reasons, but I’ve never found that to balance out the discomfort I feel. [00:49:24] So do you find this enjoyable? [00:49:27] Pete: [00:49:27] I do I do. It took a little bit and I had to work up to it. Um, especially because there’s this stage when you’re doing it, that you get the prickly heat where everything just sort of starts to itch, but you get past that. And then you’re just like, Dripping sweat. And it is an incredible detox, right? [00:49:43] You’re just like I was talking to my doctor and she said there are only three ways that we get things like we detox our body. Right. It’s like urine feces and sweat, and most people if especially, well, I, you know, speaking just for myself, like as, as a nerd, I. [00:50:00] Don’t work out a lot. Like I not to associate like nerds and working out, but I’m just one of those people that I would much rather be, you know, working on a podcast or a website or something like that. [00:50:11] And so it’s, it’s hard for me to engage and really fall in love with. With, like getting a sweat on. And so I do the bare minimum of physical activity that I can to stay healthy and then I go sweat and it’s amazing. So I don’t know, maybe it’s a dumb shortcut, but it sure is helping the, uh, the blood pressure right [00:50:29] Brett: [00:50:29] how much would one of these set a person back? Yeah. [00:50:32]Pete: [00:50:32] Oh, geez. What is it? I mean, it’s a couple of hundred bucks, [00:50:35] Brett: [00:50:35] Oh, a couple hundred. That’s I would’ve, I would’ve guessed higher, [00:50:39]Pete: [00:50:39] no, no, no. Um, well it’s currently unavailable. To the, uh, other, other ways to buy on prime two 86, 61. [00:50:48]Brett: [00:50:48] right? [00:50:49] Pete: [00:50:49] So 300 bucks, a little less than 300 bucks. Um, I love it. And it’s, I’ll, I’ll send you the link obviously to this stuff, so, yeah. That’s number one. [00:50:59] Um, [00:51:00] are you, do you now, are you doing top three picks anymore? Have you totally abdicated your responsibility to share your [00:51:05] Brett: [00:51:05] responsibility, uh, to keep myself from burning out. I [00:51:10] Pete: [00:51:10] You got to, yeah, that’s a lot of [00:51:11] Brett: [00:51:11] like I’ll throw one in here and there. Uh, especially if I have, if I have something I’m in love with that is related to a guest pick, but yeah, I’m no longer trying to do this every week. [00:51:23]Pete: [00:51:23] My next, one’s also related. I talked about a little bit. It’s the, it’s the blood pressure cuff, but I got the why things, uh, BPM connect, blood pressure cuff. If you have any reason to have one of these things around this one is really cool and it connects to all your smart devices. So you just, you know, you put it on it’s recharges by USB and it push a button and it takes your reading. [00:51:44] It has a little, a little led on it. Uh, and it gives you the reading and then wirelessly connects to its, to its network and, and gives you a report that you can then send to your doctor. And I, uh, I’m a huge fan of, uh, of it because it’s, it’s taken a lot [00:52:00] of the, like the manual reading is, is an anxiety inducing thing for me. [00:52:05] And, uh, and so it’s just fast and easy and quick, and it’s, it’s reduced the barrier to, to actually, you know, monitoring my health, especially as I get older. Right. Like, yeah. [00:52:16] Brett: [00:52:16] Is that around the wrist or the arm? [00:52:19] Pete: [00:52:19] No, it’s an arm cuff. [00:52:20] Brett: [00:52:20] Yeah, my doctor made me get rid of my wrist one and switched to using an arm cuff. [00:52:24]Pete: [00:52:24] quiet. Why? The wrist ones aren’t reliable. [00:52:27] Brett: [00:52:27] he said. Or at least not. In my case, I was getting, I was getting nonstandard readings that didn’t agree with his, his, uh, in office readings to the extent that he wanted me to get an arm cuff and it turned out I was getting more accurate readings with the arm cuff. [00:52:47] Pete: [00:52:47] Interesting. I that’s fascinating. I, you know, I think about that with the Apple watch too. I’m an Apple watch guy, so I like, I I’ve been wondering why they have not added. Some blood pressure sensor to the Apple watch. And that, [00:53:00] that makes more sense. Like they just, they, I, you know, I don’t know how anything works inside this and inside the body. [00:53:06] And so clearly I’m not equipped to comment, but that, that would make sense to [00:53:12] Brett: [00:53:12] would have to have like an inflatable band on the. [00:53:14] Pete: [00:53:14] inflatable band. Right, right. That [00:53:17] Brett: [00:53:17] there could be a definite use for that. I could see, like, especially for certain people with heart conditions, having a constant blood pressure monitored could be, it could be anxiety inducing the a hundred percent, but could also be very useful. [00:53:31] Pete: [00:53:31] Well, when my dad had his heart attack and he had, he had a quadruple bypass. And so after we were done with that process, we’re sitting in the hospital room and I’d gotten him an Apple watch. This was the series five with all the heart when they introduced a lot of the heart stuff and I would run it on his wrist in parallel to what they were doing with the hospital monitoring equipment. [00:53:52] And it was perfect. It was lockstep. So like, I feel, I feel pretty good about their ability to do that. If they’re not doing it yet, [00:54:00] there’s gotta be a reason. Uh, so anyway, that’s, uh, that was my number two. Is that a blood pressure cuff? And the third one, I got a recommend a podcast because, you know, podcaster. [00:54:10] And so I listened to a ton of podcasts. I mean, Way too many podcasts. And, uh, there, I listened to them all in order to get through them. I’ve got to listen to them at slightly faster speed, right? So, you know, speed and a half double speed, whatever, uh, just to, to stay through them all. There is one podcast that I listened to at one X speed and, uh, it, it’s not new to me, but as a music fan and as a Prince fan. [00:54:40] If you are not listening or have not listened to Prince the official podcast yet you need to do it. It is so, so good. Uh, and it is in partnership with the princess state and 89 three is at 89 three, [00:55:00] the current. Um, it’s in partnership with those two institutions and this fantastic music journalist, uh, does this episode, it was, it was in partnership when they released the extended expanded sets of, um, sign of the times, 1999 and purple rain. [00:55:16] And she interviews. Every one that has been in and around Prince’s life and, uh, they use, or they have access to every single piece of music and the princess state and the Prince library. And they, they just created a, uh, uh, like, uh, uh, I mean, it’s a, it’s a work of art, this podcast. It’s just fantastic. So if you’re a Prince fan and you haven’t experienced this particular podcast, highly recommended. [00:55:48] Brett: [00:55:48] I’m a Prince appreciator. Like I have a lot of respect for his music and, and what he accomplished. And I’m a, I’m a Minnesota guy. [00:56:00] So per Savin, new Paisley park, I’ve been kicked out of Paisley park. [00:56:04]Pete: [00:56:04] What do you, what do you have to do to get kicked out of Paisley [00:56:06] Brett: [00:56:06] have to be either with a jerk of a lead singer who pees in the bushes and gets in fights. And I did not personally do anything to disparage Paisley park, but we all got kicked out. [00:56:21]Pete: [00:56:21] That’s [00:56:22] Brett: [00:56:22] But like I said, and like, I, I, I have, uh, I have a definite appreciation while I can’t say that if I’m going to sit down and listen to music that I would choose to listen to Prince, when it’s on, I can be like, this is really good. [00:56:34] He’s a really talented guy. I, uh, [00:56:37] Pete: [00:56:37] Well, they’ve done an incredible job with these big super deluxe additions. And they’ve they brought some stuff out from the vault that sort of puzzling why they never got released, like at the time, because, and when I think it’s because, you know, they’re, they’re shaping his, his persona right. And who he is, but the variety of styles and tones that. [00:56:57] That he was capable of. Um, [00:57:00] it’s, it’s pretty stunning and you know, it’s on Spotify and Apple music and all the right places. So you, you don’t have to buy the 13 LP and DVD version of the super deluxe edition. It’s like nine hours of, of music, curated music, but it’s definitely worth, uh, you know, checking out. [00:57:18] And, uh, you know, if you, if you are a fan I’m, I, um, I’ve been a fan since I was a kid. And I just, uh, you know, I’ve seen Prince live five times and I just, uh, it’s it’s, it’s ridiculous. [00:57:31] Brett: [00:57:31] All [00:57:32] Pete: [00:57:32] Don’t cry. Don’t crush. Don’t crush my fandom Terp [00:57:34] Brett: [00:57:34] Hey, no, I, like I said, I am no judgment at all. I saw him, I saw him live at a, a block party in Minneapolis once, but I’ve never been to a like actual show, but like I said, no, I have a strong appreciation. I know, uh, no judgment, just, I was too busy with punk rock to get into Prince. I think. [00:57:59] Pete: [00:57:59] Yeah, no, I get [00:58:00] it. Well, if you, in as a parallel pick, if you’re, if you’re an enterprising nerd and you just want to see some crazy overwrought, wildly flamboyant over-designed point or takeover, crazy scrolling web design, visit prince.com because it’s obnoxious. It is obnoxious, uh, what they were able to do. [00:58:19] And for some reason, this is, this is a site I’m okay with it on because it’s prints and it, it kind of feels, it makes sense. [00:58:27]Brett: [00:58:27] All right. Well, I feel like I jumped topics enough that I didn’t get to really, uh, take advantage of your general, uh, vastness of skills and knowledge. Um, I feel like, I feel like it was a very add conversation, which to be expected to some extent, but may have to have you on again to further plumb your depths. [00:58:55] Pete: [00:58:55] No, I would love it. Brett. I’m a huge fan and, uh, of, of your work and I’m, [00:59:00] you know, as a user of your tools, uh, it’s, it’s a real thrill to hang out with you as always. So, um, whenever you, whenever you have an opening and a, you want to lower expectations, I’ll be here. [00:59:11] Brett: [00:59:11] right. Do you have a, uh, uh, a central place? People can find you and all of your work. [00:59:17]Pete: [00:59:17] Um, and it’s a true story. Dot FM is where all the podcasts are and I’m at Pete right on Twitter. I’m not there all that much, but you know, I do respond if anybody yeah. Wants to chat. [00:59:31] Brett: [00:59:31] all right. And check the show notes for as many links as I can pull together from today’s, uh, uh, broad ranging conversation and, uh, and thanks a lot, Pete. [00:59:43]Pete: [00:59:43] Hey, thank you, Brett. I think we, I think we did good. I think we really changed some lives [00:59:46] Brett: [00:59:46] Nailed it. [00:59:48]Pete: [00:59:48] All right. What do you, what do you think? How do we do? Yeah.

This week’s guest is Kelly Guimont operations manager at Technolutionary in Washington DC, as well as doing the Daily Observations podcast at The Mac Observer, The Incomparable with Don Melton, and The Aftershow with Mike Rose. She joins Brett to talk about remote work, tech support, and her love of crochet. Show Links @verso Technolutionary Daily Observations Background Mode Greetings From the Uncanny Valley Kelly Guimont on The Incomparable The Aftershow with Mike and Kelly Star Wars Crochet (Crochet Kits) The Mandalorian Top 3 Picks AD/HD shirt Intoval Wireless Charger Learn to Crochet Club: The Dishcloth Kit Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Kelly [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] This week’s guest is Kelly Guimont, operations manager at Technolutionary in Washington, DC, as well as doing daily observations over at Mac observer, the incomparable with Don Melton and the after show with Mike Rose. How’s it going, Kelly? [00:00:15] Kelly: [00:00:15] It’s going good, Brett, how about you? [00:00:17] Brett: [00:00:17] Um, man, I’m having a rough day. [00:00:20] Kelly: [00:00:20] I understand completely. [00:00:22] Brett: [00:00:22] You you’re, you’re already privy to this. Having been through a rather chaotic pre-show with me. But things are not going my way today. [00:00:32] Kelly: [00:00:32] Yeah. I know those days. I think we all do [00:00:36] Brett: [00:00:36] I’m happy that this worked out though, that I actually have you in we’re we’re recording now. So, uh, you’re wait. I thought you were, [00:00:46] Kelly: [00:00:46] So we better get to it while everything’s behaving. [00:00:49] Brett: [00:00:49] I thought you lived in Portland. [00:00:51] Kelly: [00:00:51] I do [00:00:51] Brett: [00:00:51] How are you working in Washington, DC? [00:00:54] Kelly: [00:00:54] remotely, [00:00:56] Brett: [00:00:56] I suppose that’s the obvious answer. [00:00:58] Kelly: [00:00:58] Uh, uh, well, [00:01:00] what happened was, uh, Tom bridge is one of the founders of tech Solutionary and is a friend of mine. And, uh, not that long ago in January, as a matter of fact, this year, um, he told me that he had had a conversation with the other founding partner and said, like, My friend, Kelly, we totally need someone like my friend Kelly, to just sort of like handle all this stuff so that we can be doing this. [00:01:23] And then I happened to mention that I was in the market for a new, for, for new employment. And so we sat down and had a couple of conversations about it. And so they hired their first remote person. Cause all of theirs, um, three of them total who all live in Washington DC. And it’s it consulting. So like a small place that needs an it department. [00:01:46] Or even just someplace that has somebody that mostly handles the day-to-day stuff and then calls in backup, you know, for something larger. Um, Uh, those are our clients. And so they’re all there. Like in-person hands-on and, uh, [00:02:00] in the, before times, the intent was for me to be able to schedule people and to keep track of a little bit of project management. [00:02:08] Like, um, this place totally needs their network redone. So when we have, when we have two people with a free afternoon, we need to book that slot, you know, things like that. Um, it has been different than that right now. Um, But like, there’s, there’s still a lot of people who are going into the office. [00:02:28] There’s still people like hiring, you know, there’s lots of hiring happening. Uh, we spent most of March and April helping people with VPNs and things like that. So, um, Yeah. And I’m learning a ton because I didn’t know a whole lot of like nuts and bolts, networking kinds of things. So I’ve been learning loads about that and doing lots of frontline support. [00:02:48] So people who, um, sometimes, you know, the password screen is a trick question for some people. Uh, and so I help, uh, so I help those folks out, which used to be a thing that, uh, they had [00:03:00] to do, like in the car. Like I can return phone calls while I’m driving from. One client to another client and, you know, everybody kind of has to wait until I’m done, you know, in, in the car again, before I can actually try and help anyone. [00:03:13] So, um, I ended up sort of being home-based for all. [00:03:16] Brett: [00:03:16] Yeah, so I feel like operations manager is a job title. That probably means something entirely different depending on where you’re working. So it, in your case, it sounds like it has some aspects of project manager. What exactly would you say your, uh, kind of, what is the job title mean for you? [00:03:37] Kelly: [00:03:37] Uh, well, for me, it’s sort of, at least initially again, uh, it was day-to-day operations, so it was where is everybody, if something happens, who’s going to be the available person that I can get to deploy to some sort of, you know, um, unplanned outage. Yeah, unscheduled outage, you know, that kind of thing. [00:03:57] Yeah. So a little bit of dispatch, [00:04:00] um, a little bit of being able to route the right, the racing’s to the right people. So, um, I have a work phone and my work phone is part of a, I think it’s called a ring pool. So if somebody calls the main number at techno missionary, there’s a chance my phone will ring and I’ll pick it up and answer it. [00:04:18] And you know, who is that person? What do they need? Um, Handling sort of incoming email and, uh, tickets that come from our automated system about, uh, something weird is going on with your hard drive or you haven’t backed up to, you know, crash plan or a time machine or Backblaze or something in whatever amount of time we’ve set, you know, for that particular organization, things like that. [00:04:41] So, [00:04:41] Brett: [00:04:41] so you’re also doing like actual text support too, then. [00:04:45] Kelly: [00:04:45] I do. Yes. I do a lot of tech support and I do a lot of, um, like helping folks with projects. Like if somebody decides they want to migrate from their old email system to a new email system, you know, whether it’s to Microsoft [00:05:00] office or away from Microsoft office or get everybody upgraded from whatever version of Mac S they’re on is a project I’m in the midst of now and things like that. [00:05:09] So, [00:05:09] Brett: [00:05:09] yeah, you’re upgrading yourself right now. [00:05:13] Kelly: [00:05:13] Uh, well, Mike, my own computer only just went to Catalina. I was on my hobby for a long time. Um, you mentioned I do a podcast with Don Melton and, uh, Don stance is Gramps don’t beta. And I think I might’ve caught a little bit of, uh, Gramps don’t beta from him. [00:05:29] Brett: [00:05:29] Yeah, [00:05:30] Kelly: [00:05:30] Uh, [00:05:31] Brett: [00:05:31] Catalina hasn’t been in beta for a year. [00:05:35] Kelly: [00:05:35] Well, they shipped it. [00:05:38] Okay. But we know it was in beta to like Christmas, at least. And then after that, I just never got around to it. So, uh, it’s done now. [00:05:46] Brett: [00:05:46] for the record, I am not running big Sur on my production machine yet, [00:05:52] Kelly: [00:05:52] Oh yeah. [00:05:53] Brett: [00:05:53] which is going to be a whole thing [00:05:56] Kelly: [00:05:56] Oh, yes. [00:05:57] Brett: [00:05:57] marked marked [00:06:00] my, my main source of income. My application marked, uh, it’s PDF export breaks on big Sur and the solution. Is to do a complete rewrite of marked that will then only work on big [00:06:18] Kelly: [00:06:18] on big Sur. [00:06:19] Brett: [00:06:19] So really I’m looking at D looking at developing two entirely separate applications and also trying to get NV ultra out. [00:06:27] And I’m losing a lot of sleep right now over this. [00:06:31] Kelly: [00:06:31] And I can imagine that that’s only going to increase because Apple just announced an event for next Tuesday. [00:06:40] Brett: [00:06:40] Yeah, no, I’m, I’m screwed. There’s no way I get, uh, there’s no way I get a full rewrite done by then. Anyway. [00:06:46] Kelly: [00:06:46] no, but I imagine part of that is going to be here’s big Sur, whatever date they slap on it, whether it’s the next day or not. You know, it’s, I’m, I’m hoping that will be part of the one more thing. [00:06:57] So [00:07:00] [00:06:59] Brett: [00:06:59] yeah. That’s that’s my life right now. [00:07:04] Kelly: [00:07:04] Yeah, well, I do a podcast five days a week. And so to me, like my audio set up is sort of, it’s not that it’s fragile. It’s just that I don’t have a lot of patients to necessarily sit down and mess with everything sort of over again, which is part of where my anxiety came from with Catalina, because, um, I just didn’t want to break anything was really what it was. [00:07:29] And I am often not as much as, as your friend of mine, Victor Greta jr. Has this happened to him, but I’m one of those people that like, if something weird is going to happen, it’s going to happen to me. Like, you know, all I did was upgrade my operating system, but now every time I turn my computer on. The screen is purple, you know, or whatever. [00:07:48] Like there’s always some weird thing and I will end up with that and I didn’t want to mess up my audio set up. So that was part of my inertia was just [00:08:00] everything works. Why should I go, like kick a bunch of it over and just hope that it all stays up. [00:08:06] Brett: [00:08:06] I have the opposite problem where like nothing bad usually happens to me unless I really pushed my luck. And like, to the extent where people will tell me about the weird things that are happening to them and just bye. Explaining them to me, the problem goes away. Or by having me sit next to their phone while they show me what’s wrong, it just stops happening. [00:08:31] I’m magical. [00:08:33] Kelly: [00:08:33] we call that technician proximity syndrome. [00:08:36] Brett: [00:08:36] Yeah. Yeah. I guess I’m a technician. [00:08:39] Kelly: [00:08:39] there you [00:08:40] Brett: [00:08:40] I’m not networking. Like the idea of learning, networking, networking is the biggest mystery to me. [00:08:48] Kelly: [00:08:48] it’s a mystery to me too. It’s a mystery to people who are network administrators. So I feel a little bit better, you know, in that [00:08:53] Brett: [00:08:53] there is a lot of black magic involved. [00:08:57] Kelly: [00:08:57] there is, there really is. [00:09:00] Um, within that a hundred [00:09:01] Brett: [00:09:01] Every, every time I, every time I, every time I pitch a, uh, a networking question to like Twitter, the responses I get back are half jibberish to me. Did you check your packet rate at the loop back? And I D mesh networking. Yeah. I, I can’t even translate half of the advice I get. [00:09:26] Kelly: [00:09:26] Yeah, I, I have some networking knowledge only because, uh, mr. Kelly used to be a windows user for a lot of years. And so in order for anything to work for both his machine and mine, I sort of had to be the one who knew how to make it work. So, um, I have a bunch of sort of accidental. Network administration that I’ve done through my life, just to make sure that you know, his computer and mine will both work with that. [00:09:52] And this goes back to like, Gosh, it’d be Macko S nine. Like 10 days [00:10:00] when, uh, trying to get everything to work together on the same network, you know, it was a pain in the neck or, um, having to write config files by hand, just to make sure that the printer would print for both machines, you know, and things like that. [00:10:13] So, um, I have, uh, uh, a little bit of out of necessity sort of network. Knowledge and, uh, part of that, uh, now comes from a home smart home home kit, internet of things, sorts of devices that we continue to, to bring home and hook up to my network. [00:10:35] Brett: [00:10:35] Um, so you were, you were going to speak at the max stack that didn’t happen this year. [00:10:41] Kelly: [00:10:41] I was, I had a talk all planned out. [00:10:45] Brett: [00:10:45] the theme was play, which was a tough one for me because the things that I consider play are they don’t translate for other people. Like, I like to write regular [00:11:00] expressions for me. That’s it’s, it’s, it’s, that’s fun. [00:11:02] It’s, it’s a puzzle to solve. Um, but it’s hard to like say that to a group of people. So I had to like search really hard. I ended up picking a topic around like automation, home automation, because that, that is unless you take it very seriously, that’s all play. We we’re all just kids having fun with making lights turn on and off, but, um, So that was my pick. [00:11:27] What, what, what direction did you go with yours? [00:11:30] Kelly: [00:11:30] Yeah. Uh, mine was going to involve, uh, yarn time basically. Um, because, uh, it’s a full-on break. From whatever else you’re doing, sort of, um, you ha uh, like if you, like, if you’re typing, you know, or something like that, uh, you have to be. Engaged in doing something, you know, with yarn, like if you’re going to [00:12:00] crochet, for example, and I was going to use crocheting as a way to do that. [00:12:03] Um, and part, uh, and, and for like part of it is, uh, if you are trying to do a lot of stuff that ends up being sort of brain intensive, like you need to give it all, you need to give like your subconscious, a chance to process and stuff. And that’s where like, um, sleep comes in super handy. Is it sort of helps. [00:12:22] You know, work, all that stuff out overnight, sort of set the things that you’re, you’re able to remember and having to leave those things alone. And so one of the things I kind of wanted to talk about was the importance of getting to take a break and, and that it’s necessary to take a break and it’s important to take a break and it’s, it’s the same sort of thing is like sharpening a pencil. [00:12:42] Like you can’t write with a pencil. While it’s being sharpened. Like you have to, you know, you have to take a minute, go sharpen it, come back, and then it’s ready to go. But after a while, like it’s dull and it can be hard to write with. And, you know, it ends up like, you know, sloped down the one side where it’s all weird and [00:13:00] like, it’s not a great experience. [00:13:01] You have to take a break and sort of sort all of that out and then come back to it. And your brain needs that too. So, uh, I was going to talk about, and, uh, I still. I never got around to the logistics of it, but I was going to try to find a way to, um, get yarn for as many people as were going to be at my talk and sit down. [00:13:22] And I’m going to show you one easy thing that you can do do this and that, like do this, you know, for a row. And then. Turn around and go back and just keep doing that because it’s a complete context shift for most people. Um, a lot of people who sit in front of computers are dealing primarily with words, and this is basically not dealing with words. [00:13:44] And if you’re sitting in front of it, dealing with numbers, if you’re doing like complex calculations, there’s not a lot of complex math that comes into the, into something. If you’re using a pattern. Already, like, if it’s a known pattern that you’re just following, you just have to follow it. So all you have to do is be able to count. [00:14:00] [00:13:59] So, you know, you have it’s, it’s 34 stitches across, so you have to be able to count to 34. That’s it not square root of two, or like nothing complicated at all. It’s just count all the way across count all the way back and. Just showing like a very easy way to make that happen. And another thing that’s nice about it is, uh, there’ve been there’s science behind taking a break and there’s science behind, uh, like knitting while. [00:14:26] You listened to a video, you know, a web video while you’re taking a class or knit, while you sit in a meeting and there’s proof, there’s proof that like retention is higher and it’s a little easier if you’ve got this other things sort of low key distracting, uh, the very distractable part yeah. Of your brain, because you’re knitting or your crocheting while you’re listening to someone talk. [00:14:46] Right. That doesn’t mean you’re not listening to them. It just means that like, The part of your brain that would normally be veering off in some other direction is consumed with, did I make it all the way across? [00:14:56] Brett: [00:14:56] I know [00:14:56] Kelly: [00:14:56] I have to chain one in turn and come back. [00:14:59] Brett: [00:14:59] I know that’s [00:15:00] true of ADHD people. The, uh, the need to fidget while absorbing information, is that true of everybody? [00:15:08] Kelly: [00:15:08] Um, I think it’s true of a lot more people than just ADHD people. I don’t know if it’s like a hundred percent neuro-typical people or not, but it’s, it definitely helps to have that other thing to do. I mean, we’ve seen like, I mean, I know you and I have seen so many sort of fidget as toys that have gone by, you know, there’s spinners. [00:15:28] There’s the little cubes, like the one I’m looking at right here on my desk that has like each, each side has a different thing that you can push or pull on or whatever. Um, yeah. And I think, you know, so there there’s, you know, there’s something to that. And part of the nice thing about this, about having this as a hobby, because I, uh, I aspire to knit. [00:15:50] I’m not very good at knitting. Um, but I aspire to knit and crochet. And one of the things that I like about it is that there’s something to show for the hour [00:16:00] that I spent sort of goofing off or whatever. Um, and I, I liked that piece of it. And another thing I like about it is that, um, there are so many things out there, especially now, like just in the last, you know, in the last 10 years or so as more people who are nerds or whatever, Um, in whatever you want to pick, if you’re a nerd or a geek or you super belonged to some fandom, like a lot of those folks intersect with yarn in some way. [00:16:28] So like right now, something that I’m doing is from a kit that I got last year for Christmas called star Wars crochet, and I’m crocheting a Yoda. Out of this little book it came with, it was a book and it came with some yarn and some stuffing to make, um, adorable little star Wars guys. And so I’m crocheting adorable little star Wars guys right now. [00:16:47] Um, and, and so there’s lots of fandoms out there. Like I’ve seen the same company makes kits for like Marvel characters and there’s wizard of Oz. And there’s like, um, the frosty, [00:17:00] the snowman and Rudolph Christmas specials. Uh, you can get those characters and it’s all in this little prefabbed kit. Uh, and then there’s all kinds of other stuff. [00:17:08] Like you can knit. I have done this actually. Um, you can knit, uh, one of the scarves from Harry Potter for whatever house it is that you prefer. Um, There’s lots of other, uh, sort of yarn craft around other sorts of fandoms as well. So there’s a lot of things that, that give you an opportunity to also sort of continue to be part of whatever fandom it is that you like. [00:17:32] So like I’ve got a couple doctor who patterns, I’ve got some star Trek patterns, I’ve got more star Wars patterns. Um, there’s lots of stuff out there that you can also still be sort of enjoying. Whatever thing it is that you like to enjoy while you’re doing it. So like, I sat and worked on my, on crocheting, my little Yoda guy, uh, while I watched the Mandalorian last Friday. [00:17:56] Brett: [00:17:56] so my interest in, I, [00:18:00] I do not knit or crochet, uh, [00:18:03] Kelly: [00:18:03] believe that between L and I, this hasn’t happened. [00:18:05] Brett: [00:18:05] Well, I was going to say, you know, my girlfriend L and she is, she’s become quite the, a knitter and crochet hair. And I always mix the two up and she always corrects me. It’s crochet. No, it’s knitting. Um, and [00:18:20] Kelly: [00:18:20] you tell crocheting is one stick. [00:18:22] Brett: [00:18:22] right. [00:18:23] Kelly: [00:18:23] takes both hands. [00:18:24] Brett: [00:18:24] when I look at the finish product, I can’t always tell, Oh, that was crocheted or that was knit. [00:18:30] Like, [00:18:30] Kelly: [00:18:30] Look, look, you have to look close, but if there’s V’s, it’s knitting. [00:18:35] Brett: [00:18:35] Okay. Also, I don’t care, but I, I, she, she, she is convinced that if I sat down and did what you just described doing with the max stock audience, if I just knit a row and, and began to feel the, just kind of the rhythm and the pattern. That I would get into it. And next thing I know [00:19:00] I’d be, I’d be knitting clothing and all [00:19:03] Kelly: [00:19:03] so nice. [00:19:04] Brett: [00:19:04] It is, she is, she’s made me stuff that I love. Like my favorite hat in the world is one she made for me last year. And it is the coolest looking best feeling hat I’ve ever owned. And yeah, I would like to make stuff at that. That was that cool. But also I like to play games on my iPhone. [00:19:25] Kelly: [00:19:25] yeah, I do too. [00:19:27] Brett: [00:19:27] And that tends to like all the time she spends knitting with you. [00:19:32] Like w w w we do it while we watch TV. She knits well, while we watch TV and I have to tell if things happen on screen that are visual only, like if, if the character reads something on a sign, but there’s no audio to go with it. I will usually like. I’ll be her, uh, kind of like audio subtitles and [00:19:54] Kelly: [00:19:54] the audio description? Yeah. [00:19:56] Brett: [00:19:56] what it’s happening on screen. [00:19:58] Um, but [00:20:00] in the meantime, like with my ADHD, it’s hard for me to just sit and focus on the TV show. So I’m always fidgeting and I have an array of fidget toys, but I it’s so addictive to play. IPhone games while watching TV, maybe knitting is a solution to iPhone addiction. [00:20:23] Kelly: [00:20:23] I think it can be at least like for me, it’s one of the things that I have used to try and cut down on the time that I spend goofing off and iPhone games. And so, because I sort of think about like, I could be, you know, I could be knitting something or I could be. Uh, working on, you know, whatever that is. [00:20:40] Cause I also like really useful stuff. Like that’s the other piece of it. So, uh, the whole reason I sat down and decided I wanted to learn how to crochet in the first place. Cause I started with crocheting. Cause it seemed like the one stick was easier than the two sticks at the same time. Yes. Uh, at least for me, it was much easier to learn [00:21:00] because I only had to worry about. [00:21:02] Holding onto one stick with one hand holding onto yarn with the other hand, as opposed to like a stick in each hand, but also yarn and like that’s a whole thing. Um, so I got a bunch of fundamental stuff sort of out of the way by learning to crochet first. And the other great thing about crocheting is that it’s really forgiving. [00:21:18] So whatever the stitch is, if you’re doing it wrong, let’s say, but you do it wrong the whole way, and it doesn’t come unraveled or anything like it’s not fundamentally like. Wrong then it looks fine. Like no one will know that you didn’t do 100% the stitch in the pattern or whatever. Like if you’re consistent about it, it usually comes out. [00:21:39] Okay. So it’s pretty forgiving in that way too. So I, I, I like it for that. Um, and I started learning to crochet because I wanted to learn how to make the towels that my grandma used to do, where you have the little loop across the top so that it doesn’t fall off the oven handle. When you put the towel there. [00:21:57] So this has a button and you put, [00:22:00] you know, you button it to the oven handle or the refrigerator handle or whatever, and then it doesn’t fall off. And it’s the, like in my kitchen, it’s the greatest thing. It’s, it’s part of the landscape. It’s been that forever because my grandma made them for everybody. [00:22:14] And so it was just sort of a thing that ha that happened in, you know, the houses of my people was the towel was always buttoned to the thing and wouldn’t fall off. So. That was why I learned how to crochet was just to be able to make those for myself out of thing, out of towels I wanted and out of yarn I wanted. [00:22:34] And so I. That was the whole thing that got me going with it again, like, you know, from, as an aside from like sort of sitting and goofing around, you know, while she was crocheting, you know, sitting with her, you know, making chains a mile long or whatever, I could do something else. So, um, that’s how I ended up getting back into it. [00:22:52] And I, I really enjoy it for the fidget factor of like, I could be knitting, but also. You [00:23:00] know, taking a class online or watching TV or things like that. So I sort of like having something to show for my TV time so that it doesn’t feel like I just slacks off. Like I wasn’t just goofing off. Like I made five of these little, you know, kitchen scrubbies, you know, and now I, now I have those in my stash of like, Like, you know, gifts to give people or whatever. [00:23:24] Oh, a friend of mine moved. I can go give them like one of these in a dish cloth and, you know, coordinate with their kitchen or whatever, that kind of thing. [00:23:32] Brett: [00:23:32] I’m going to pause for one second because there’s some weird background noise on my end, and I’m going to isolate it real quick. I’ll find it. [00:23:52] Oh, it’s L and the shower. It’s the pipes, the pipes, the pipes are calling. [00:24:00] Okay. 24 minutes. Noise break. All right. So back to it, do you, do you want to know what El is making right now? [00:24:19] Kelly: [00:24:19] I do very much. [00:24:20] Brett: [00:24:20] So like right now I’m wearing something. She made me last year there knit mukluks, [00:24:26] Kelly: [00:24:26] Oh no, [00:24:27] Brett: [00:24:27] are like boots. [00:24:29] Kelly: [00:24:29] that sounds amazing. [00:24:30] Brett: [00:24:30] yeah, they’re awesome. And they’re, they’re orange and I love them. Um, but right now she’s knitting socks, like with sock yarn, like form fitting socks, which to me [00:24:41] Kelly: [00:24:41] I am. I am so intimidated by socks. [00:24:46] Brett: [00:24:46] Like people, like we know like the, I don’t mean to stereotype, but the old ladies in town who knit, um, The knitter circle. Uh, [00:25:00] most of them are also apparently intimidated by socks. Oh, you’re making socks. Oh my. [00:25:06] Kelly: [00:25:06] Yeah, well, a [00:25:07] Brett: [00:25:07] almost done. Like it’s going really [00:25:09] Kelly: [00:25:09] get second sock curse, like is, I think is what it’s called or second sock syndrome where like you knit the one and you get partway into the second one and [00:25:19] Brett: [00:25:19] Well, she’s doing them on, she’s doing them simultaneously. [00:25:25] Kelly: [00:25:25] Oh, okay. That [00:25:26] Brett: [00:25:26] they’re both on the, the loop at the [00:25:29] Kelly: [00:25:29] circulars. Yeah. I’ve heard about that. Yeah, it sounds cool. I’m, I’m super intimidated by them because it’s a thing you actually wear, but not a hat. And like, I haven’t made clothing besides hats, so I’ve done. Oh, I made a scarf. I’ve made a couple of scars. Um, but otherwise it’s mostly like most of what I’ve made has just been hats and like scarves, scarves. [00:25:56] Like if it’s a little short. Oh, well, if it’s a little [00:26:00] wide. Oh, well it’s not like you can’t wear it because it’s just a scarf. So. Yeah, that was actually the first thing I ever sat down and knit was, uh, my, my, uh, Gryffendor scarf. And, uh, cause I looked at the pattern and went, okay. I don’t think switching colors would be that hard. [00:26:17] Uh, and it says, you just do this spiral forever. So it’s a tube scarf. Um, and then I discovered when I went to buy all the yarn, I took my pattern with me and went to the yarn shop, said, hi, I want to make this in these colors. Can you help me? And it turned out to be a thousand yards, a yard. And that’s a lot of yarn. [00:26:35] Brett: [00:26:35] like a thousand yards. [00:26:37] Kelly: [00:26:37] It’s like a thousand yards a yard and that’s what I did. And so that was my first project. Um, I need a lot of dish clauses after that to sort of make up for it because the other great thing about some projects is like most people have multiple projects going on at, at the same time. Um, and part of the reason for that is because if you do, let’s say a dish cloth, And you use a stitch that’s that’s [00:27:00] taller than even if all you do is sit down and do and crochet one row across you’ve made progress. [00:27:07] It’s like an inch and a half longer than it was when you started. And that’s like, that can be even just like 10 or 15 minutes worth of, I’m going to sit down and double crochet across here. And now it’s like, you see noticeably. More project than it was when you sat down. So like sometimes the gratification of it with a smaller project is really nice. [00:27:28] Sock. Yarn is very thin. And so, um, like if you knit a row of a sock, you may not necessarily appreciate the progress there. So that’s part of what I, that’s another thing I really like about particularly crocheting and crushing dish claws in particular, I’ve made loads of them and I, because a, I like doing it B they don’t take that long. [00:27:48] See, I can always give them to people. And like my mom, at one point I gave her one and she was like, well, I don’t, I don’t want to use it. Cause I don’t want to wreck it. And I’m like, mom, that’s, that’s the point. And I had to sit down and be like, mom, look [00:28:00] the ball. Like I had to go buy yarn to make this dish cloth for you. [00:28:05] And I spent about $2 on the yard and I got five dishcloths out of it. Okay. So the cost of it, don’t worry about it’s 100% cotton. So it works just like all the rest of your disc clause. And if you don’t use it and wear it out, I can’t make another one and give it to you. So just use it please. [00:28:26] Brett: [00:28:26] your dish claws out of 100% cotton. [00:28:29] Kelly: [00:28:29] Yeah. [00:28:29] Brett: [00:28:29] I would think like a poly wool combination seems suitable to me. [00:28:36] Kelly: [00:28:36] Will will, would be nice. But, um, a lot of those you can’t put in the dry, [00:28:42] Brett: [00:28:42] you put [00:28:42] Kelly: [00:28:42] so if it’s just going to be, yeah. [00:28:45] Brett: [00:28:45] Fancy you [00:28:46] Kelly: [00:28:46] mean, when they come out of the wash, they got to go somewhere. So, um, so I [00:28:51] Brett: [00:28:51] don’t do laundry enough. [00:28:54] Kelly: [00:28:54] or at least don’t wash dish closet very often. Um, that [00:28:58] Brett: [00:28:58] like Tish clots are self [00:29:00] washing. Like it, like you get them wet and soapy and then you rinse them and you bring them out and they’re clean. Right? [00:29:08] Kelly: [00:29:08] sometimes, sometimes if [00:29:11] Brett: [00:29:11] Yeah. Elle would disagree with me on that too. [00:29:14] Kelly: [00:29:14] Yeah. Sometimes if you leave them for awhile, it’s, it’s not so much so you to kind of, you know, do something else. So [00:29:22] Brett: [00:29:22] So, uh, it came up a couple times already, but you are a, uh, you’re a pretty hardcore star Wars fan. [00:29:33] Kelly: [00:29:33] I am. [00:29:34] Brett: [00:29:34] and I figured if, if the knitting conversation wasn’t compelling enough to people. Maybe we could get into like a star Trek star Wars argument. No, I’m just kidding. We’re not going to do that also. I know you appreciate star Trek. [00:29:48] Kelly: [00:29:48] I really liked star [00:29:49] Brett: [00:29:49] have to be a binary choice [00:29:51] Kelly: [00:29:51] it’s not, I do love star Trek, but my heart is with star Wars. [00:29:55] Brett: [00:29:55] and, uh, [00:29:56] Kelly: [00:29:56] I love star Trek. I went and saw like lots of the [00:30:00] movies, like opening day or opening weekend in a theater, you know, like as soon as they could get my hands on them, I went and saw them. I love next generation. Um, I’m watching discovery. [00:30:10] Picard was great. Like, yeah. It’s not like I don’t, I mean, hi rod. It’s not like I don’t love starting. So [00:30:18] Brett: [00:30:18] but, but I’m curious to hear your take on the Mandalorian. Don’t give away season two. [00:30:25] Kelly: [00:30:25] I will not. Um, I adore the Mandalorian and I think what it is about it that I like is, um, well, I th th what I’ve discovered about it, that I, what I, that I like about it a lot is that it’s showing us a whole lot of. The star Wars universe that we didn’t see before. So, um, and the reason I discovered this is because like, when we end up in a location that seems familiar or we see, um, aliens that we’ve seen [00:31:00] before, that looked familiar, that we recognize from something else. [00:31:02] I sort of get not bored, but I’m like, Oh, we’ve seen this. And I’m a little less interested in what’s happening because like we’ve been there. We’ve seen that, show me something new and that’s, and I. It sits with me. Like I was sitting thinking about it as I was rewatching season one before season two started last Friday. [00:31:22] And. I realized that specifically what it is, that’s what it is about it that I like so much is that it’s expanding the universe that we already have. And it’s one of the things that I don’t like in star Trek when we do that, like, I didn’t need to see the wrath of Khan again. I saw it once you don’t need to retell me that story. [00:31:41] Um, Like tell me you have the whole universe to play in and you, you, you take me back to this for the third time. Like that just seemed unfair. Um, and it like in bummed me out because there’s this whole universe of stuff that you could be showing me and you’re showing me something I already know. Um, and that’s one of the things that I really like [00:32:00] about the last Jedi as a star Wars movie. [00:32:02] Um, I really liked that it was trying to make the universe bigger and show us other things and show us different stuff. That was also part of the universe that we’ve been inhabiting, you know, with these movies for so long. And that’s what I really like about the Mandalorian. I love the, the, you know, the clan of, to the Wolf and Cubs story, you know, that we’re getting with that, that we saw through the arc of season one. [00:32:25] And I really like. How it came together and, and it’s, it’s another, it does right now, what the Mandalorian is doing is what star Wars does when it is at its best, which is you’re telling me an interesting story about interesting characters that happens to be set in space. [00:32:42] Brett: [00:32:42] Yeah, well, [00:32:44] Kelly: [00:32:44] That piece is in that piece is almost incidental. [00:32:47] To what’s happening, which is, which is the part that I, which is the thing that I like about it. Like when it’s, when it, when star Wars is really hitting its stride, it’s doing that. And, uh, you know, it’s, it’s the same thing. I like [00:33:00] another. Other storytelling, you know, when the point of it is not space, the point of it is not the aliens. [00:33:04] The point of it is the relationships. The point of it is whatever it is that, that this group of people is trying to accomplish together or whatever, you know, that, that’s the part I really like. And I, I enjoy seeing like the. The weird aliens and the goofy politics that, that different folks have here and there. [00:33:26] And, you know, all that kind of stuff is stuff that I really enjoy. So I, anything that’s sort of making the universe bigger, particularly in an interesting way. Uh, that’s the stuff that I like about, about particularly the Mandalorian [00:33:39] Brett: [00:33:39] did you read at all about the set that they shoot on? [00:33:43] Kelly: [00:33:43] it is mind blowing. I can’t believe that they do the stuff that they do with that. And I just love it. [00:33:51] Brett: [00:33:51] explain it, explain it to me if, as if I didn’t. Cause I have this like vague idea of these like crazy led [00:34:00] screens and everything, but I don’t think I fully understand what is happening. So explain your understanding of it for me. [00:34:09] Kelly: [00:34:09] so I think like, If I’m like parsing this properly. Right. And I’m not a filmmaker, so I don’t, I don’t know for sure. Um, but they film the bulk of, of the show in this thing called the volume and it’s like this massive. It’s this room and it’s, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s like a sound state. I don’t even think it’s like 10,000 square feet. [00:34:34] It’s I think it’s less. And so what they do is they take these screens and they put the scenery on the screens around the room instead of using like matte paintings and things like that. So, um, they they’re doing a lot and it, so it allows for like, Everyone to be in the same [00:35:00] place at the same time, regardless of where they’re filming. [00:35:02] So, uh, like with the, uh, with the original movies, they had to film like part of it in Tunisia and part of it in another place and part of it in another place. And then some at a studio in London and with the volume, they didn’t have to do that. Um, it’s sort of like, instead of having it, it’s. Similar to green screen, as an idea in that the backgrounds and stuff are all computer generated. [00:35:30] They’re all something that was synthesized from someplace else. But, um, they take it a step further by making it, uh, by, by sort of broadcasting [00:35:38] Brett: [00:35:38] Right. [00:35:39] Kelly: [00:35:39] on the walls so that you can see it so that all the people that are in. The scene that’s supposed to be taking place in the desert. Like the ground is covered in, you know, the, the floor that they’re standing on is covered in sand and there’s, you know, set pieces around them. [00:35:53] But you know, a few feet away you’re seeing like way, you know, it’s, it’s a vertical [00:36:00] wall, but it looks like, you know, the horizon is way out there and it goes on for miles and all that kind of stuff. So, um, they’ve [00:36:06] Brett: [00:36:06] a reason they didn’t call it the holodeck? I mean, would that have been crossing too many lines? [00:36:14] Kelly: [00:36:14] It may have been, um, I don’t think this was developed for Lucasfilm, um, or ILM or, you know, whoever it is that they say is in charge of that stuff these days. But, um, uh, it, I think the company that came up with it, I don’t know. I don’t know why they named it that, but I just think it’s. But it’s super cool. [00:36:35] Um, if you have any, plus in are watching the Mandalorian, they did this, um, additional series alongside of it called like the Disney gallery. I think something like that. And they talk more about the Mandalorian and like how the story came to be and that sort of stuff. And there’s one episode that just deals with like the logistics of filming in this space. [00:36:55] And it’s really cool to get a chance to watch. [00:36:57] Brett: [00:36:57] Yeah. Have you, uh, [00:37:00] since the, uh, since the whole pandemic thing, have you tried having a, uh, a digital watch party at all? [00:37:06] Kelly: [00:37:06] I have not. I should. [00:37:08] Brett: [00:37:08] We did for, uh, for Halloween, we got, uh, Dan Peterson from agile bits and Dave Chartier and, uh, Christopher gambling wall and Jack, and a bunch of cool guys and girls and gals. And. Um, actually there was, I think always the no Ellen and Honda both showed up. [00:37:31] Um, but anyway, like it’s a zoom call plus the hu not Hulu, uh, Plex watched together feature. And then while the movie’s playing, we mute the zoom call and switched to messages. [00:37:46] Kelly: [00:37:46] Oh my [00:37:46] Brett: [00:37:46] For like the running commentary and the wisecracking we do over like text messages and it is, it takes, it, it’s a lot of brain space because like, you’ve got two screens, three screens [00:38:00] going at once really. [00:38:01] And, and you’re trying there’s, you know, there’s that whole, like, I want to enjoy the movie, but I also need to be witty about this. Uh, the whole MST three K thing going on. Um, it it’s a blast though. And honestly, even with all that, they’re still easier to pull together than our real life watch party with friends. [00:38:22] Kelly: [00:38:22] Oh, for sure. Yeah. Um, uh, Dawn and I used to sort of, uh, when Westworld was airing, we would watch, we would watch air quote together, um, where we would also go, like we would just sort of over messages. We would kind of coordinate, like, I’m going to start at six 30. So am I okay. Like let’s just hit play at six 30 and then we would just sort of text each other at the same time. [00:38:44] Like if, about something that was happening or, um, Uh, as soon as I could name that tune, I would send him the name of it because he always wanted to know I, so like we would do that. And, um, and he, he enjoys [00:39:00] those exchanges immensely. And we’ll occasionally, like when we were doing the show, the podcast, he would talk about, you know, and this is when Kelly texted me, you know, whatever it was. [00:39:09] Brett: [00:39:09] Yeah, no, I really like, I like remote watching with people. There’s something, there’s something very. Yeah, I, I won’t say it’s better, but it’s very different. Uh, not being in the same room, but still sharing the movie with someone. [00:39:26] Kelly: [00:39:26] sharing that experience and that’s it, like I’ve watched other, other stuff kind of, kind of at the same time, not exactly, you know, like what you’re doing. Um, but I have done stuff like that and sort of had, you know, had the conversation sort of going on the side, just in messages, you know, as I was watching it at home or whatever. [00:39:47] And I think part of it is the little bit of normal that you, that comes from. Being able to talk to the person, you know, [00:39:55] Brett: [00:39:55] yeah. [00:39:56] Kelly: [00:39:56] like you would normally be able to like lean over and whisper that to [00:40:00] somebody by, you know, now you just send it in messages. And so it’s kind of a little bit of normal, uh, in 2020, which is, which is hard to come by and therefore appreciate it. [00:40:09] Brett: [00:40:09] Yeah. Yeah. It’s much like, uh, when things get back to normal, there are certain things such as. Uh, digital watch parties and, and for a non-trivial part of the population work from home, um, things that people don’t necessarily want to go back to the way they were like, sure. We still want to have movie nights with friends. [00:40:35] That would be great to get back to, but also these digital watch parties are fun in their own special way. And I would do them even if I didn’t have to. [00:40:45] Kelly: [00:40:45] Well, and I think part of that is just sort of. Uh, the possibility, right? So now that we have much easier technology that makes it so that we can all watch the same thing at the same time, like, it also means that you and I can watch something [00:41:00] together regularly where that would not be a possibility most of the time. [00:41:03] Brett: [00:41:03] right. Yeah. Like the, the last one was people from Chicago and Ontario, not Ontario, Ohio somewhere. And, and Minnesota, like all just getting together on Halloween night and watching John dies at the end. Have you ever seen that movie? [00:41:24] Kelly: [00:41:24] Uh, no, I heard about it. [00:41:26] Brett: [00:41:26] You would be hard pressed to find a single good review of that movie, but it’s actually not that bad. It’s weird. It’s weird. It was a good Halloween movie. It wasn’t too scary, but definitely a trip. [00:41:42] Kelly: [00:41:42] Cool. [00:41:42] Brett: [00:41:42] Anyhow, should we do some top three picks [00:41:46] Kelly: [00:41:46] Uh, we certainly could. [00:41:47] Brett: [00:41:47] top, top two or three? All [00:41:51] Kelly: [00:41:51] I’ll give you as many picks as you want. Cause I, I have a great number of things to pick. [00:41:55] Brett: [00:41:55] What’s let’s start with one. [00:41:57] Kelly: [00:41:57] Okay. Um, so I’m going [00:42:00] to give you. I will send you a link. Uh, this is, uh, a t-shirt. It should not surprise you that, uh, I’m sending you a t-shirt, but, um, you did mention to me that a lot of your audience is, uh, ADHD people. [00:42:17] And so, uh, I have this shirt that says in the ACDC font, it says ADHD. And then below that for, because I know like, Picking a t-shirt on the podcast makes it riveting. But underneath that, it says for those about to, Ooh, we’ll rock and, Oh, [00:42:34] Brett: [00:42:34] I actually, I own an ADHD ACDC shirt, but it does not have the tagline under it. [00:42:42] Kelly: [00:42:42] That’s what I thought you would dig this. Uh, so, uh, this, the, the shop that makes these shirts is a friend of mine. His name is Eric. Hi, Eric. And, um, Uh, he has some other shirts too. He has a fat lives. T-shirt that he’s been selling forever for [00:43:00] people who, uh, disbelieve that sequence on tattooing. [00:43:04] And, you know, they’re in the middle of return of the Jedi. Um, and he’s got a, he sells one that says, bring your re game, which I love very much. Um, And it might be because I said, I just, all I want in life is a shirt that says this and so made one. Uh, and then he’s got, uh, some other ones too. I have one for a raise salvage, uh, that says now accepting portion pal. [00:43:28] Um, there’s a, there’s just like some fun sort of goofy star Wars t-shirts there that I really enjoy. So, um, there’s some of those, so that’s, uh, that’s my first pick is a clever t-shirt. [00:43:41] Brett: [00:43:41] I saw, I saw a welcome mat the other day, that in the ADA, in the ACDC font, it just said without any context, it just said for those about to knock. [00:43:55] Kelly: [00:43:55] Yeah, I like that. [00:43:56] Brett: [00:43:56] Yeah, it was good. [00:43:57] Kelly: [00:43:57] That’s a good one. Yeah. [00:43:59] Brett: [00:43:59] All [00:44:00] right, hit me with another one. [00:44:01] Kelly: [00:44:01] Okay. Uh, so I have. Uh, this is a pic that I have, like I said, I don’t remember if we were recording or not when I said this, but, uh, I’m always looking to optimize and I want it. Like, whatever, whatever it is I’m doing, I want it to be as convenient as possible when I’m trying to get it done. So, um, one thing that I have found lately is that I’ve been, I’ve taken to wearing my Apple watch 24 seven basically. [00:44:28] Um, because I wear it for sleep tracking and, uh, for the alarm. Because my alarm goes off half an hour before mr. Kelly’s alarm goes off. So it feels like having it tap me on the arm is a little bit nicer than just having it Blair 30 minutes before he needs to be out of bed. So, um, I’ve started doing that. [00:44:48] So it means that, um, I’ve been looking for a way to. Uh, charge my device and charge my charge, all of my devices, basically. And I found this [00:45:00] particular, uh, charging station, I guess. Um, so it’s got the, it’s all wireless charging. It’s got an upright place to set your phone and, uh, the base for that, uh, Is just another charger it’ll charge headphones, like your, um, I have like three sets of headphones right now that do wireless charging and all of them charge on this, uh, wireless pad kind of in the back. [00:45:26] And then the top of the, the top of the place that holds the phone sort of folds back to be, um, flat so that it’s horizontal. And it’s got another charger there that you put your watch on. So this will charge three things at the same time for. Only slightly more than the space of a regular sort of upright charger. [00:45:46] If you have a wireless charger that holds your phone upright, like on your desk or whatever, um, So I found this because I went looking for one because I saw a couple that looked kind of interesting, but kind of big, and this [00:46:00] isn’t that much bigger than the wireless upright charger that I already own that I have on my nightstand. [00:46:05] So I have this one on my desk and I have it there too, because I like first thing in the morning when I first get into work, I will usually start, uh, I will charge my watch for awhile then, and then I’ll charge it, uh, for a while later. Like during other stuff during the day. So I get a couple of good opportunities to make sure it’s full and it’s an easy way to charge my work phone and kind of have a place for my work phone to live. [00:46:28] Like if I’m not carrying it around, it can just sit right there. And then I always have a place to charge my headphones. And so, um, I have found that super duper handy. I like that one a lot. [00:46:37] Brett: [00:46:37] Yeah, I just, uh, I put little standup watch chargers all over my house. Cause I also use it for sleep tracking and they use it for workout tracking, but then there’s all these time in between where I’m really just checking the weather or the time on occasion. Um, And the, and so just here and there, I’ll just find half an hour to just leave it on the [00:47:00] whatever dock is near, where I’m sitting. [00:47:02] Um, uh, I, I, yeah, it’s, it’s a weird charging schedule. Also, the battery lasts for like, uh, I would say two days at a time on this watch I’ve had for a couple of years now. Uh, it’s [00:47:16] Kelly: [00:47:16] I was going to ask which one you have. [00:47:17] Brett: [00:47:17] It’s a series three, [00:47:19] Kelly: [00:47:19] Oh, nice. [00:47:20] Brett: [00:47:20] bizarrely long battery life for its for its age, but, [00:47:24] Kelly: [00:47:24] I have before, or, and I, I basically don’t have, don’t have trouble if I can get two good stretches of time on the charger in a day. And I mean like less than an hour, if I can get two good stretches, I’m solid. So, yeah. [00:47:39] Brett: [00:47:39] And I built a, a flush Mount. She charger into my standing desk. [00:47:45] Kelly: [00:47:45] Nice. [00:47:47] Brett: [00:47:47] just lay my phone down on the desk and it charges. Um, it’s not fast. I, I, I don’t fully understand what I would have to [00:48:00] do to make it a fast charger, but at [00:48:03] Kelly: [00:48:03] just need a different wall plug. [00:48:06] Brett: [00:48:06] I’ll work on it. I don’t, I don’t care that much. I [00:48:09] Kelly: [00:48:09] I said probably like a lot of times that’s all it is like usually the it’s not the cable. That’s the problem. So [00:48:15] Brett: [00:48:15] good to know. All right. Uh, what do you have for, uh, maybe a third pick. [00:48:20] Kelly: [00:48:20] uh, my third pick is something that, um, I’ve been, uh, I’ve been looking at because I do have a friend who wants to learn to crochet. And so, uh, this is what I was looking at. Uh, it’s a kit for $17. That will teach you how to crochet a dish cloth. So it’s got the hook that you need. It’s got three balls of nice yarn to use for this. [00:48:47] It’s not super duper, fancy yarn or anything. It’s just really great for dish cloths. Um, I’ve been using it for a while and I really like it. Um, it’s got the pattern that you need, and it’s got a little booklet that has basic stitches [00:49:00] and, uh, the crochet hook that they give you is, is a very nice one it’s made out of this cool wood. [00:49:04] And it’s got like some nice colors in it. [00:49:09] And like I said before, like a dish cloth is an easy way to make progress. Uh, you know, even if you can just sit down and, and crochet one row, uh I’ve you know, and I use, like, I kind of always have some very small project going so that even if I can just make one lap, I feel a little better about whatever it is or, you know, if I just need to get out of my head for a little while I can take 15 minutes and go crochet a row or two and be, and be done. [00:49:34] And sort of context shift from whatever it was I was doing before and get out of my head and quit overthinking something. Uh, so that’s another nice thing about dish clauses. You can just go forth or force and back, and then, you know, you’ve made some progress. And, uh, and, uh, like I said before, like crochet is not that complicated. [00:49:53] Um, and this is $17 and for $17 you get a load of good stuff and it comes in a little nifty [00:50:00] box and you can start making disclose. [00:50:02] Brett: [00:50:02] all right. Fine. [00:50:06] Kelly: [00:50:06] Okay also, uh, and this is, uh, this pic is a kit from nitpicks and I really like nitpicks. Um, yeah. [00:50:14] Brett: [00:50:14] Did I tell you what else has gotten into she into spinning? Like making her own yarn crazy. She, she tends to, she tends to do deep dives. I’m a very like surface level person and wants to pick up a little bit of everything. And she like gets to one point in the ocean and then just dive straight down until the next thing you know, she’s got like a little llama farm [00:50:42] Kelly: [00:50:42] I was going to say next, [00:50:43] Brett: [00:50:43] she wanted to [00:50:44] Kelly: [00:50:44] going to get a note [00:50:45] Brett: [00:50:45] has llamas. [00:50:46] Kelly: [00:50:46] yes. Yeah. Um, well, if, if she tries to go for llamas and alpacas, cause the yarn is a [00:50:53] Brett: [00:50:53] she prefers alpacas as animals as well. I think she, she [00:51:00] constantly shows me pictures like cute alpacas. [00:51:05] Kelly: [00:51:05] Well, I look forward to her inevitable yarn store so that I can buy alpaca yarn from Ella and knit with that instead. [00:51:13] Brett: [00:51:13] Yeah, I will. Uh, I’ll keep you posted on that. She’s she’s. She wants to learn how to, I don’t know the, the words, but there’s a type of spinning you can do while you’re walking. So she wants to get to a point where we can walk the dog and I can hold the leash and she can spin. And I have, I have reservations about being the guy. [00:51:40] Who walks the little dog with the woman who’s spinning yarn. I don’t know. It’s something some deep seated. [00:51:47] Kelly: [00:51:47] Are you talking about like drop spindles or something? Okay. [00:51:51] Brett: [00:51:51] Yeah, I am, but I don’t know why it bothers me. It shouldn’t. I should. She’s she’s a wonderful lady and I [00:52:00] love, I love that. She’s so crafty. [00:52:02] Kelly: [00:52:02] She’s super crafty. [00:52:04] Brett: [00:52:04] Yeah. [00:52:04] Kelly: [00:52:04] It’s pretty great. Yeah. [00:52:05] Brett: [00:52:05] All right. Well, That’s a pretty good show. [00:52:10] We did there. [00:52:12] Kelly: [00:52:12] All right. [00:52:13] Brett: [00:52:13] Um, for anyone who isn’t already there and Kelly, you have an invitation, there is a discord server with, uh, quite the growing community where you can come talk about the podcast or anything that happens to be on your mind. Uh, we were just talking about, uh, let’s see, my cat, my cat comes up a lot. But there’s a lot more than that. We talk about keyboards and cats and Taylor Swift, because it it’s a shared discord with the over-tired discord and they have separate chat channels within the discord, but there’s also a Taylor Swift disco audio channel that I will on occasion play music in. [00:53:00] And I’ll be honest. [00:53:01] It has been a lot more. Punk rock than Taylor Swift, because nobody’s in there listening to it. And I’m not going to spend Taylor Swift just for nobody. [00:53:16] Kelly: [00:53:16] I sort of enjoy that. I I’m glad to know that there’s punk rock happening. That makes me happy. [00:53:21] Brett: [00:53:21] Yes. All right. Well, tell Kelly, tell people where they can find you. [00:53:27] Kelly: [00:53:27] okay. Um, you can find me five mornings a week over@mackobserver.com, where I host the Mac observer daily observations podcast. Uh, we talk about Apple news and, um, And there’s actually another podcast, uh, that, uh, I think is on the horizon that, uh, people should keep an eye on the Mac observer.com for, to check out. [00:53:50] Um, I’m also doing an episode while we’re talking Mac observer. I will be on an episode of background mode with John Martellero. Okay. Uh, in the coming [00:54:00] weeks, I don’t remember exactly when that’s going to go live. Um, but yeah, John and I usually get together and talk about the TV that we’ve been watching, the TV and movies that we like. [00:54:09] And, and, and we disagree on stuff pretty often. So sometimes it’s fun to go check that out. Um, you can also find me over at the incomparable where my show with Don Melton is called greetings from the uncanny Valley. We talk about Westworld and, um, You can also find me over there on some of the other shows around the incomparable. [00:54:27] We just did a game show episode. Uh, I also did an episode where we talked about Shaun of the dead and for agents of smooch. And, uh, I did a podcast about, uh, the movie aliens. Uh, for the main show feed, um, and the rest of the time, you can find me with Mike Rose talking about whatever comes to mind over@aftershowpodcastattheaftershowpodcastwithmikeandkellyataftershowpodcast.com. [00:54:53] And if that’s not enough listening to me talk, you can find me on Twitter as we’re. So. [00:54:58] Brett: [00:54:58] Verso. [00:55:00] Yup. That sounds like a very, a very complete list. You talk a lot. I know. I don’t mean that in a bad way. [00:55:08] Kelly: [00:55:08] No I do. And it’s only when I have to sit down and make this list that I’m like, wow, that’s a lot of [00:55:13] Brett: [00:55:13] I got exhausted just hearing about all of the talking that you do. [00:55:18] Kelly: [00:55:18] Well, the Westworld podcast generally is only on, well, Westworld is airing, so we’re not doing, that’s sort of on hiatus right now. [00:55:25] Brett: [00:55:25] Yeah. But one of your, you do five days a week on. Yeah, no, you, it’s very impressive what you do and, and you have a day job. [00:55:36] Kelly: [00:55:36] I do. Yeah. So that’s, that’s sort of my lunch hour every day. Um, uh, even though it’s 9:00 AM, uh, because I keep East coast office hours. Um, so I spend my lunch hour. Uh, we get together over at Mac observer. We have our, our morning meeting and, uh, chat about whatever it is. And then we go record the podcast and I posted it and then I go back and work for the [00:56:00] afternoon. [00:56:00] Brett: [00:56:00] Wait, so you get up at like your, your day starts at 5:00 AM. [00:56:04] Kelly: [00:56:04] Um, my day starts at six that’s when my alarm goes off at five 30. [00:56:09] Brett: [00:56:09] Oh, it only takes you half an hour to get going. That’s cool. I’m much the same, but I live in a house where it takes people more like an hour and a half, so I have to get up. [00:56:20] Kelly: [00:56:20] Yeah. Well, but I also don’t have to go anywhere. So I do have that. I do have that like advantage, you know, I don’t like my commute is a flight of stairs, so [00:56:30] Brett: [00:56:30] yeah, that’s been my commute for 20 years now. And I’m [00:56:36] Kelly: [00:56:36] been my commute for eight years because our, our, our old house was only one story. [00:56:40] Brett: [00:56:40] and I’m doing interviews fascinating. So I don’t even have to have breakfast, basically. It’s roll out of bed, Kappa coffee. I’m ready to go. Except for Monday, Mondays and Fridays. Now we’re back in the, uh, in the studio for yoga. So I do actually have to leave the house. [00:56:55] Kelly: [00:56:55] Oh, okay. [00:56:57] Brett: [00:56:57] I like zoom yoga. That’s another thing I think we [00:57:00] should keep when things get back to normal. [00:57:02] Kelly: [00:57:02] Zoom yoga sounds awesome. [00:57:03] Brett: [00:57:03] It is it’s it’s like going to yoga except you don’t leave your house. [00:57:09] Kelly: [00:57:09] Well, I also liked the idea of, of the, the lack of judgment of whatever outfit I’m wearing or like my downward dog is in downward downward enough or whatever. Like I don’t have to worry about anyone else in the Oh, okay. [00:57:25] Brett: [00:57:25] You have the option to not turn on your video. But I mean, the fact is it goes into presenter mode. So even if other people are on this screen from where, from your mat, you can actually make out other people or anything. But [00:57:40] Kelly: [00:57:40] that sounds a little [00:57:41] Brett: [00:57:41] of course I’ve only been on the teacher side of it. [00:57:43] Like I live with the teacher, so I’m always behind the computer. Just kind of like. Doing it along with the class, I’ve never actually attended a zoom yoga class as like a [00:58:00] zoom. [00:58:00] Kelly: [00:58:00] full on attendee. [00:58:01] Brett: [00:58:01] Yeah. I’ve always had the zoom yoga in person, which kind of defeats the whole zoom thing. But anyway, okay. Again, thank you for being here. [00:58:11] Uh, this went better than I had hoped based on how the rest of my day has gone. [00:58:16] Kelly: [00:58:16] Oh, well, I’m glad it, I hope it improved your day a [00:58:19] Brett: [00:58:19] It did. Yeah. Yeah. It was a delight. And, uh, and thanks everyone for listening. I guess this is, this is an awkward, sign-off [00:58:32] Kelly: [00:58:32] Okay. See, I, that’s why I came up with a sign off. So that’s why I ended up of daily observations with be excellent to each other. [00:58:39] Brett: [00:58:39] do it now. Say it. [00:58:43] Kelly: [00:58:43] This has been systematic with Bret Turkstra. He will talk to all of you again soon in the meantime, be excellent to each other.

This week’s guest is Jay Miller, a podcaster, developer, and, as of recently, a developer advocate for Elastic. We chat about what a developer advocate does, adventures in productivity, and the joy of building things that help people who build things build things. Sponsor This episode is brought to you by ExpressVPN. Keep your information secure using ExpressVPN. It’s one click to protect all of your internet browsing and activity. Visit expressvpn.com/systematic to get three extra months for free. Show Links kjaymiller.com @kjaymiller github.com/kjaymiller The PIT Show Let Me Google That For You Let Me DuckDuckGo That For You Bullet Journal Bookworm By The Book Bunch Bunch for Alfred Treating ADHD With Video Games ProgrammableWeb Stream Deck Elapsed Time Keyboard Maestro Macros exist.io Slogger Top 3 Picks Diagrams Setapp Brett’s Setapp Script OmniGraffle Pie-hole Jacob Collier All I Need (Breakdown) Sleeping on My Dreams Join the Conversation Come join the Discord community! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Brett_1 [00:00:00] Brett_1: [00:00:00] My guest this week is Jay Miller, a podcaster, developer, and as of recently, a developer advocate for a Elastic. How’s it going, Jay? [00:00:08] Jay_1: [00:00:08] I’m excited to be here. This is, this is several years of dreams come true. Finally. [00:00:13]Brett_1: [00:00:13] It’s really nice to hear that. I have been on your show before, and I would say that if you feel like reverting to interviewer mode and ask me questions, it’s totally cool because that’s what makes my job way easier. [00:00:28]Jay_1: [00:00:28] I would just say, just stop me and be like, Hey, no, this is my show. Where are you doing? [00:00:32] Brett_1: [00:00:32] You are now a developer advocate for elastic first. Tell me what is Elastic? What do they do? [00:00:39]Jay_1: [00:00:39] So elastic is the search company. I’m not going to say a search company. We are the search company. That’s right. Google shots fired. Let’s do this. But the way that I explain it to people, when I’m doing the advocacy thing, is that. Elastic is the search that you want to work. So you don’t have [00:01:00] to go to Google. [00:01:01] And I mean that in, when you go to Yelp, you want to find tacos in your area. That’s powered by elastic search. When you want to go to, you know, When you’re on Uber and you want to like, you know, hail a ride and it’s checking your area, checking for cars in your area. It’s making sure it has a list of, you know, who you’ve worked with in the past and who you don’t want to have, you know, driving you that’s elastic search working in the background. [00:01:25] We are search company through and through. And what we’ve kind of been able to do learn is that search works. Beyond a UI bar and a little magnifying glass. In fact, we can search logs. Um, I think I showed you a picture of this, but we can search RSS feeds and look at trends in history. Of people’s posting frequency and things like that. [00:01:51] And I know of course, when you start talking about data and the consumption of data, it can get creepy. But the general idea is [00:02:00] we’re only able to collect the things that people give us and looking at it from the database perspective, we are simply a database that focuses on retrieving the information that you’re looking for as you’re looking for it, or really, really fast. [00:02:15] Brett_1: [00:02:15] The creepy thing happens when it’s gathering data, you don’t realize you’re putting out there. And when you find out that they’re selling that data, that’s, that’s when it gets creepy using actual public data. That’s what data is for. That’s what it’s there for. I, uh, [00:02:35] Jay_1: [00:02:35] actually started working on the San Diego police call records for the last five years to see if there’s any trends and over-policing in different districts based on their nine one, one calls. [00:02:48] Brett_1: [00:02:48] Really? I would, I would be curious to see your findings. [00:02:53] Jay_1: [00:02:53] uh, right now I’m just trying to get the things to work. So we’re getting there. [00:02:57] Brett_1: [00:02:57] I did. I noticed with your, [00:03:00] uh, your, your analysis of my RSS feed. Um, it made a pretty clear graph of my bipolar disorder. You can see where I was manic and then these lulls where I was depressed, it was, uh, perhaps the, uh, the best mood meter I’ve seen yet. [00:03:18]Jay_1: [00:03:18] Well, a lot of that comes from the idea. I’m sure, you know, Wolfrem from Wolf from alpha fame, but one of the things that he’s done is collect so much data on himself that he’s able to just make these correlations to things that no one else would think of. And hearing about that. I’ve wanted to do something similar. [00:03:42] And you mentioned like working with RSS feeds and seeing if it has a way to track, like, you know, mental health or having peaks and valleys. If you, if you have to track, you know, your mood to me, being able to log that data in it in a [00:04:00] way that you can make those connections is something that. I don’t think is necessary for the business end of companies. [00:04:08] I think that’s a personal journey because I think everyone’s data is different. I mean, that’s kind of where we start to fall off in productivity is everyone tries to follow the one way when there really isn’t the one way, it’s your way, whatever you decide to do, that’s what’s going to work for you. And I mean, not to be too much of a shell, but one of the things I like about elastic as a company is that all of our products are open source. [00:04:32] So we, we get paid post data when it’s asked of us. But in terms of all of our products, anybody can download them. Anybody can run them on their machine, you can set up your own system and you can configure it. And we see none of that data ever. And to me, that is the package power of an amazing product, not an amazing company. [00:05:00] [00:04:59] Brett_1: [00:04:59] Um, I, it’s probably not your fault, but I’m surprised I’ve never heard of elastic before. [00:05:05]Jay_1: [00:05:05] I think that that’s a victim of doing our job because you know, the internet outrage machine doesn’t yell at us too much. And in fact, the only advertisements that I’ve seen that are like, talking about competitors are often, like, do you have all of these problems that other databases have. Well, I’ll try our database cause you’re not going to have them with us. [00:05:28] So I can, I can tend to, uh, definitely understand that the common world doesn’t really know of us, but I mean, I didn’t know that I was working for a company that, you know, we’re trying to reach like a billion dollar company status and like we’re publicly traded and all of these things. And I didn’t know that until I got the offer letter and it was like, Oh, Oh wow, we’re bigger than I thought we were. [00:05:54]Brett_1: [00:05:54] So, so you you’re obviously you’re advocating for them right now, but what does a [00:06:00] developer advocate do? [00:06:01]Jay_1: [00:06:01] So I like to think of a developer advocate as like a influencer for a certain segment of the tech community. And for me, it just happens to be in the world of dealing with search. So. Advocates are often the people that you see speaking at conferences, if they’re not engineers. In fact, I think one of the funny trends is as more and more conferences have gone to online only events. [00:06:31] A lot of the advocates that I know have been getting into live streaming more. And it’s, they’re realizing, Oh, wait, you mean, I don’t have to prepare a talk. I don’t have to, you know, figure all this stuff out. I don’t have to travel, you know, three weeks out of the, out of the month. I can just on a computer, turn on a camera and talk and that’s like doing my job. [00:06:53] Okay, sign me up. That’s great. But one of the things that I like to say, and that I’m glad happened was we’re [00:07:00] longer evangelists, you know, it’s great when we can preach the amazingness of our product, the speed, the relevance, all those things. But. To me, this switch from developer evangelism, which is what it used to be called for a long time or developer relations to developer advocacy. [00:07:22] Is that when we speak on behalf of both sides too, The other side. So for folks in the community, we’re out there listening to their concerns, we’re out there trying to help them build the things that they want to build. And when there are headaches where the people that are, you know, logging the issues, updating the documentation, speaking to people on the engineering team saying, Hey, When, you know, when Brett uses our system, he’s getting this error. [00:07:56] This error could probably be written better. I’ve already submitted a [00:08:00] pull request to update the documentation for it. Can you just make sure that this is done? And then when it is reaching back out to Brett and saying, Hey, thank you so much for catching this. I’ve made sure that it won’t happen for anyone else. [00:08:13] Brett_1: [00:08:13] I need a developer advocate for my software. [00:08:17] Jay_1: [00:08:17] Yeah, I’ve been trying for years, but I’m just a terrible, terrible in maintaining some of the things I’ve helped make. [00:08:25] Brett_1: [00:08:25] I, yeah, it would be great to have someone in between me and the get hub issues. That could kind of, um, I it’s a D it’s a diplomatic position. Uh, you, you I’m sure that like when developed, when things go wrong for developers, they’re not always kind about it. Uh, I’m sure you hear the angry side of things and have to translate that into the actual, like a report and then go back and try to be nice to someone who’s perhaps being a bit [00:09:00] confrontational. [00:09:00]Jay_1: [00:09:00] I think the best. Example of that is whenever there’s a, like a tweet of someone that’s just struggling to get something working and they shout and they shout and they shall, why is this so complicated? Why does this not work? Why is this wrong? And sometimes, yeah, we have to accept that there should be egg on our face, you know, Hey, we messed this up so, you know, when you want to say all of those things, but you can’t because you have to think of like, what is the best diplomatic response to that? And it might be, Hey, we’re sorry, you’re having a difficult time with that. [00:09:36] Have you looked at this log that, you know, Clearly shows the exact same issue that you’re having that I found in a quick Google search, because my Google Fu or I guess my duck duck Fu is, you know, kind of attuned to these problems. Here you [00:09:54] Brett_1: [00:09:54] Yeah, I see that I can do that. I have this strong temptation to have you [00:10:00] used, let me Google that for you. [00:10:02] Jay_1: [00:10:02] yes. [00:10:03] Brett_1: [00:10:03] did you know, there’s a version for duck, duck? Go. [00:10:05] Jay_1: [00:10:05] Yes. [00:10:06]Brett_1: [00:10:06] I’m always, I, I so rarely get a chance to use that when I know that the other person will find it funny. Cause it is so it’s so sarcastic. For anyone who hasn’t used, that it’s a site you can go to. [00:10:22] And when someone really should have just Googled for an answer that they would have found for like first try, you can type in the query for them and it’ll give you a link and when they follow it, yeah, it’ll open Google show, an animation of typing it in and then do the search for them. It’s it’s delightful. [00:10:42] Sarcasm. [00:10:43]Jay_1: [00:10:43] And I mean it’s, and it’s not to say that the person hasn’t gone and done those things it’s again, and you know, I’m learning this stack as I’m helping advocate for it. So there are plenty of times where someone says, Oh, why is this not working? And I go. [00:11:00] I don’t know why is this not working? And then I go, you know, message someone that’s on the development team and they go, Oh yeah, totally. [00:11:06] This is what’s wrong with it. Here’s the exact link. And I can go, Hey, can we turn this into a blog post so that that’s easier to find. So it’s, again, it’s, it’s kind of that idea of you want to be the face of like reason and calmness for the company, but then also when something does come up, you want to be able to. [00:11:26]Shield the, as you mentioned, shield that engineering team from just a barrage of why are you doing this wrong? Don’t you know how to code my goodness. It’s like, you’ve never written a line of code in your life before. And again, these are people that are just frustrated because they have their own deadlines to worry about. [00:11:43]Brett_1: [00:11:43] Yeah. I, I, I truly appreciate that. I, I work hard to, uh, re respond to angry messages with kindness, and I generally get a very good result from doing that. But when I can afford to hire you [00:12:00] away from elastic, it would be so nice to not have that responsibility on my plate. [00:12:05]Jay_1: [00:12:05] I would say the thing that I’ve done, this is like my, my mini productivity hack. I actually just say what I want to say and then let text expander translate it for [00:12:15] Brett_1: [00:12:15] I do that. Yup. I think I, I think I have a blog post about a text expander snippet that converts my, my very sarcastic responses into. In two, thank you for reporting this issue. I’m sorry. You’re having this problem. Um, yeah. Anyway, so in your, uh, your off time, you, you have something called the pit show [00:12:39]Jay_1: [00:12:39] Yeah. [00:12:40] Brett_1: [00:12:40] that’s been going on for a few years. [00:12:42] Now, tell us about that. [00:12:44]Jay_1: [00:12:44] So the pitch show was this idea of. I was really unproductive. Well, and I wouldn’t even say I was unproductive. I didn’t know what productivity was. And I really wanted to learn [00:13:00] from people that were, that I considered to be productive. So I did what any normal person would do. I started a podcast and said, Hey, who wants to be on my show? [00:13:11] And. Yeah, six years later, we’ve got a community. We, you know, we’re still putting shows it was out. And, um, I’ve had you on the show, a couple of, because you know, you, you change your style up every once in a while, and it’s good to see what’s been working and what hasn’t been working. And ultimately the show has kind of evolved over time from a lot of feedback, a lot of feedback from the audience saying like, Hey. [00:13:39] We love the interviews, but we want to know what you’re doing. So then I started putting my own like 2 cents in the ring, and then there were people that were like, yeah, we like what you’re doing, but we want to hear from more people. So eventually, you know, the current iteration of this, this is now the pit show, which is. [00:13:58] Literally me [00:14:00] talking about something relevant to whatever happened that week and then playing a snippet of an interview that I, I had with someone and then wrapping it up with how do these two things come together neatly, and then I just ship it. And, you know, it’s, that’s kind of been my working. Stands for awhile. [00:14:21] Like just do the thing, ship it out. People listen to a great, if people don’t listen to it, you still wanted to make it so no harm there. [00:14:30] Brett_1: [00:14:30] That’s it. It’s pretty cool. You found a balance between you and your interviews. Um, how so do you, would you say that doing this format where half of it is just you talking, do you think that takes more or less planning than doing a full interview show? [00:14:47]Jay_1: [00:14:47] I think that it eased up the interview, I guess dilemma. Cause I mean, as someone that does an interview show, you [00:15:00] know, that it is a pain in the butt to, first of all, find people to talk to then record the interviews, then edit the interview. And on top of all of that, Have it sitting there for who knows how long so that you can publish on a regular schedule. [00:15:16] And I think what this allowed me to do was take all the interviews that I have left for this year, which I think if I released the one interview a week, I would have enough interviews to go into like late December. And basically cut those in half and turn them into little snippets that are no longer time sensitive that I can go. [00:15:40] Hm. What happened this week? Well, this and this happened, that kind of reminds me of that conversation that I have with such and such. Let me pull that interview up and, you know, play this 10 minute clip of it. And. It just transformed it into a different way of thinking. Not necessarily like the job got easier or harder. [00:15:59] It was more like [00:16:00] when I had to come up with things to think about. I struggled with filling time when I was only doing interviews, the interviews would often either become irrelevant or they wouldn’t kind of match what was going on in the space, especially now where, you know, every week there’s some scandal fiasco while thing happening. [00:16:18] So. I kind of just took the best of both worlds and like jammed them together. And it it’s, it feels very much now like a talk show more than it does me hosting a podcast. It’s me getting up and giving my monologue, having a guest, asking them a few questions, thinking everybody for listening to them and then wrapping it up with my closing monologue. [00:16:39] And then the music plays [00:16:41] Brett_1: [00:16:41] Except you don’t have a team of writers. [00:16:44] Jay_1: [00:16:44] exactly. I mean, if I had a team of writers that the show would be even better. [00:16:48] Brett_1: [00:16:48] Yeah. Well, when I have enough money to hire you away from your day job, uh, hopefully we’ll be able to hire some writers as well. [00:16:56]Jay_1: [00:16:56] I mean, you’ve got, you’ve got the discord now I’d say, just ask them [00:17:00] like, Hey, these are the shows aren’t gonna produce themselves. [00:17:03] Brett_1: [00:17:03] Yeah. For anyone listening who is not already in the discord, uh, there is a growing community. There’ll be a link in the show notes. Come join us. You can, you can ask Jay questions. It’ll be fun. So you talked about starting the pit show because you wanted to be more productive. Did it work? [00:17:21]Jay_1: [00:17:21] I mean, did starting the PID show make me more productive? Yes. Did the focus on wanting to be more productive? Make me more productive? Absolutely not. Um, Kind of the long story short, there was, I’m a military veteran. I served in the Marine Corps. I got out of the Marine Corps, got a regular job job. And in that job, I didn’t really fit. [00:17:48] What they needed, but I was what they had. So it kind of worked. The issue was five years. I had been told when to wake up when to work out, when to go [00:18:00] eat, when to stop eating and then like when to go on vacation, quote, unquote deployment. So having that amount of direction, especially at a young age, [00:18:13] didn’t really prepare me for, Hey, here are your responsibilities. No, one’s going to really tell you what to do. You just got to balance it and figure it all out yourself. So then the immediate switch to that was I do everything at like 15 screw 10, screw 11, screw, all the other ones I’m going to like it’s either all or nothing. [00:18:34] So I was like, I need to know how to be like the productive person. I want to know what the Eisenhower matrix is. I want to know what GTD stands for. I want to read all the books. I gonna listen to all the shows like I’m subscribed to like 300 podcasts still. And like, I don’t have time to listen to all of them. [00:18:53] And out of that became. A ton of stress, to be honest of just like, [00:19:00] I can’t do this. Like I can’t be GTD. I can’t get things done. The David Allen way, I can’t make Kanban fit. Every situation. And that just, I meant that I stressed more and more and more, and I started searching for other solutions and asking other people, what are they doing? [00:19:20] They’re using 12 week year. Let me do that. I’m throwing out all these buzz words, just to prove that I know them, I guess. I don’t know. But at the end of the day, something funny finally clicked. And by the way, I’m a bullet journalist now. So I did find something that kind of worked for me. But the thing that I learned was. [00:19:37]My productivity is my productivity. Like I could write a book on all the things that I do that make me productive, and I’m sure that someone else would read it and go, Oh, wow. I’ve never thought about this one particular thing. Let me just try that. And that’s when I realized the value of having all of these guests on the show, but [00:20:00] not fully adopting their entire process, looking for like the one. [00:20:05] I call it like the nug, like the one nugget of truth that you can incorporate into your system, or that you can be thinking about. How does Brett manage this one thing, which I know it’s been a while since I’ve asked you like how, you know, task Meister and all these other things are working for you for that exact reason is like, I’m glad that they’re just working for you. [00:20:27] It’s like I see their success. I don’t need to know how you’re doing it. The hope that I can emulate that. I know it won’t work for me. [00:20:33]Brett_1: [00:20:33] I’m glad I didn’t have to go through the long journey to realize I couldn’t adopt to any one system. Um, that my brain just would never focus on one system long enough to feel like I could make it work for me. Uh, like GTD pretty much, uh, It made sense and immediately I let it go. And the one thing I took away from it though, was the whole, [00:21:00] like, uh, the, the brain dump and just getting things out of my head and into buckets so that I could. [00:21:08] Uh, think clearly and know that they were in a safe place like that, that aspect of GTD stuck with me and it, I use it to this day. Everything else about it, I don’t follow. Um, but I get what you’re saying. Uh, the, the obsession with productivity is a huge impediment to productivity. [00:21:31]Jay_1: [00:21:31] I think the best way to look at kind of the pathways to. Managing productivity. Uh, there’s a good friend of mine, Joe Buhlig. That is very, very bright. He does this podcast called bookworm with Mike Schmitz and they read a self help book every two weeks. I believe. Meanwhile, I think I’ve read like, A full book this year, maybe. [00:22:00] [00:22:00] So for me, I just, I know, like I’m not going to be able to do that. And I’m sure there are people that are like, yeah, you just read like five, read five paragraphs a day and then you’ll catch yourself wanting to read temp. It’s like, yeah, I know the tricks. The thing is I don’t. Care. Like, I don’t like them. [00:22:18] The tricks are stupid. I don’t want to do those things. So I’m not going to, and I mean, maybe I blame it on the ADHD, but. It’s in me. I feel like that’s just a normal thought. Someone says, Hey, you should do this. You go, I don’t want to do this. I mean, I’ve got a daughter, so I hear that all the time. And it’s, it’s like, if you don’t want to do it, then do the thing that you want to do, but find a way that you don’t get fired. [00:22:44] You know, that, that was my goal. At the end of the day, it was like, how can I do the job to the level of completion that I don’t get fired at the end of the day? And if I can do that on a regular basis, then I can keep doing whatever the hell I want. [00:22:59]Brett_1: [00:22:59] How do you, [00:23:00] I can’t imagine reading a self help book a week. [00:23:02]Jay_1: [00:23:02] I don’t know. [00:23:04]Brett_1: [00:23:04] There, there was a podcast called by the book where they did something very similar. And for every episode they read or they pick one rule from a self help book to follow it down to the letter a for, for each episode. And that’s a fun social experiment, but I can’t imagine, I can’t imagine that amount of reading. [00:23:27]Jay_1: [00:23:27] I don’t know how you would be able to come to a complete system if you’re constantly adding to it every single week. [00:23:36] Brett_1: [00:23:36] well, I’m not sure. I’m not sure they kept following a system of any one system after the week was over. I think it’s more of a do by Friday thing. See how it works for the week. [00:23:49] Jay_1: [00:23:49] Uh, [00:23:50] Brett_1: [00:23:50] And I assumed that that Joe B and Mike S are not, um, Uh, compiling every self [00:24:00] help book into concatenating them and continually building one bloated system. [00:24:06]Jay_1: [00:24:06] definitely you have to have one of them on the show. They’re they’re amazing. [00:24:10]Brett_1: [00:24:10] Mike Schmitz has been on before I should have him back. I’ve never had Joe on. I definitely should. Uh, I met met both of them through, um, A max stock actually. And where, where you spoke at the last step or 12 max stock. It was really [00:24:29] Jay_1: [00:24:29] was one of the weirdest events for me because I knew everyone in the room and nobody knew me. Well, I guess you knew me. He added a couple people that knew me, but it was just like, Oh, Hey, have you met Jay? And I’m like, Oh, Hey look at all these people I’ve listened to for years. And they’re like, Oh no, who’s Jay. [00:24:49] I’m like, yeah, that’s what I thought. [00:24:51]Brett_1: [00:24:51] Yeah, no, I, uh, yeah, I can’t relate people, people, I don’t, I don’t follow anybody. So it always shocks me [00:25:00] when people do know who I am. [00:25:01]Jay_1: [00:25:01] I think about like internet celebrity in that weird essence of you never know who’s your biggest fan until like you meet them. And then it’s just kinda like why, but why though? [00:25:15] Brett_1: [00:25:15] Yeah, no, but I’ve actually like the people that I’ve met because they were, uh, like fans of my work. And then to the extent where they wanted to meet me and they’d, they’d find me and either email me or meet me in person at a conference. I I’ve never had a bad experience with that. I know that it could very easily go wrong, but everyone I’ve ever met that way has become a friend. [00:25:41] They’ve all been cool. [00:25:43]Jay_1: [00:25:43] I don’t want to break Twitter, but I’m pretty sure the way that I got you to guest on my first show. Like. God like five, six years ago was straight up. You saying, I need to learn how to make new [00:26:00] friends. And I just replied, well, if you want to come be on my podcast, I’ll be your best friend forever. [00:26:04]Brett_1: [00:26:04] And I took you up on it. [00:26:06] Jay_1: [00:26:06] You [00:26:07] Brett_1: [00:26:07] And now we’re friends. [00:26:09] Jay_1: [00:26:09] I completely freaked out. I was just like, Oh, well shoot. Okay. Let’s uh, let’s, let’s figure this out, I guess. [00:26:18] Brett_1: [00:26:18] Yeah. So you also, in addition to running a show and working a day job, you make a lot of stuff you were talking about, uh, some of the data, uh, analysis stuff you’re working on. And I know you, you build tools like, uh, what, what, what kind of stuff do you do in addition to the things we’ve already talked about? [00:26:40]Jay_1: [00:26:40] Yeah, I will say that some of the projects are now merging into work projects because I can give talks on them. And [00:26:49] Brett_1: [00:26:49] That’s awesome. When that happens. [00:26:51] Jay_1: [00:26:51] yeah. It’s like if I mentioned search once I’m allowed to work on it during the Workday, I love it. But the. My, my [00:27:00] business statement, by the way, Pitt is a business as well. [00:27:04] Um, but it’s always been buildings that help people that build things, build things, but I know that’s kind of weird, but that, I mean, that’s kind of the mantra is I want to make the things that help people who are making things for other creators. And I think that’s where following your work for the longest time. [00:27:25] Really helped to influence that because I saw. The tools that you’re creating and then realize you’re making tools for people that want to create, not necessarily people that want to just consume and a few examples of that. And don’t add any of these in the show notes. Cause they’re all terrible. And that’s not my imposter syndrome kicking in. [00:27:46] That’s like I have failing test. So, uh, let’s not add those, but one of the things that I’ve been doing lately is working on making transcriptions better. Um, I’m sure a lot of people are doing that. Machine [00:28:00] learning is a powerful drug, but the way that I’m wanting to approach this is I’m wanting to make transcriptions better for developers. [00:28:09] And it sounds like that’s not a challenging thing, but anyone that has to write a good variable name can tell you like, okay, if the variable is solve for Y. That can be written out many different ways. So how do you make that better? And again, that’s an ongoing journey. And then some of the other things that I’ve done is, um, render engine, which is a static site generator that is designed to. [00:28:41]Take all of the fidgetiness out of static site generators. Uh, basically you just write in markdown and then you put it in a folder and you say, Hey, run. And then it builds it. And you don’t have to think, um, well you have to think a little bit, but not too much. And then from there, everything else that I’ve [00:29:00] built has been. [00:29:01] How do I solve a problem that I’m having that I’m sure someone else might be having? Um, for instance, this developer, I know named Brett Terpstra made this app called bunch. And I, it was like, Hey, this would be really cool if I can trigger it via Alfred. And I know that that developer named bred term stra uses launch bar and he doesn’t use offered. [00:29:22] So. He’s not going to make it, so I’ll just make it and then I’ll share it. And people will complain to me and not him. And I’ll ignore them because that’s what I do. [00:29:32] Brett_1: [00:29:32] You did, you did a really good job of running all the support for that. [00:29:35]Jay_1: [00:29:35] I mean, it’s, I think the hardest part of that is. Keeping up because you add so many things that eventually I was like, you know what? This is just going to talk to the CLI and if breast supports it, it works. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. [00:29:53]Brett_1: [00:29:53] So when, when you, when you’re scratching all of these itches, uh, do you ever [00:30:00] build stuff just because you found, uh, cool. That looked fun. [00:30:04] Like it would be fun to play with. [00:30:05]Jay_1: [00:30:05] I don’t think that I grab a hammer and started looking for nails. But I do look for nails that I can hit with whatever new hair or that I bought. [00:30:18] Brett_1: [00:30:18] It’s not the same thing. [00:30:20] Jay_1: [00:30:20] I don’t think so because I think one would say, Hey, here’s a new framework. Like for instance, a good example of this view, three just came out and like Python 3.9 just came out and there’s some really cool features in there that I would love to play with, but I don’t have it yet use case forum. [00:30:40] And it’s like, I’m not going to. I’m not going to build an app that just so that I can play with those tools, but at the same time, if I do say, you know, Hey, I want to track my mood and align that with my Tetris scores. You know, because Tetris is a known [00:31:00] therapy method for people with ADHD, look it up. Um, I can do that and Hey, I get the opportunity to play with this new technology that just came out. [00:31:10] I think that’s the difference, I think. And I think that this is the going back to that productivity problem. There have been apps that came out that said, We are here because we want you to rethink this problem. And there were people that would say, well, I don’t really have that problem, but this tool looks so cool that I’m going to spend the money to download this product and just see if it improves my life somewhat instead of going, Oh, well, I mean, I don’t have that problem, so I don’t need to spend the money. [00:31:39] Brett_1: [00:31:39] Yeah. Um, I subscribe to an RSS feed of, uh, of web API APIs. It’s just a, a site that, that posts, they have a page for like every possible API on the web. And I watch for things that. Uh, [00:32:00] log social activity or manipulate text in some way, or do a machine language or machine learning analysis for sentiment of, of a blog post, stuff like that. [00:32:11] And I frequently find myself, um, finding, um, finding nails because, uh, the hammer looks so cool. And then I go and. I like to think that I am always solving my own problem, but I’m pretty sure I often make up problems just to try out new tools. [00:32:32]Jay_1: [00:32:32] I think for me, I get excited when I see something that can solve a problem that I’ve had for a long time. Um, a good example of this, like the idea of. Hey, I just bought a stream deck. Uh, why is, why do I need a stream deck? To be honest, I don’t. Nobody does, but they’re cool. And I won’t, so I bought one and [00:33:00] the thing that was great about this was that. [00:33:03]When you’re starting a new job, you have like all these new websites you got to check and you gotta do all this stuff. And you gotta remember what the URL to everything are. Well, I don’t have to because I just made a folder and put it on my stream deck. So it’s like, Oh, Hey, I need to go look at that one thing. [00:33:21] Where is it at? I don’t know, push one button, push two buttons. Hey, there it is. [00:33:25] Brett_1: [00:33:25] So does that, does that end up being like your cell phone where you don’t know anybody’s phone number? You just know that you hit the button? Yeah. I can see that I got my stream deck by, by accident or as the result of a job. Um, I don’t know. I had always kind of, uh, It had always appealed to me, but it was one of those things I couldn’t justify because I didn’t have a problem for it to solve. But then when it came to me, I, uh, I did find plenty of things to do with it. [00:33:59]Jay_1: [00:33:59] Oh, yeah, [00:34:00] it was going to be one of my picks, but I haven’t done enough with it to be honest right now it’s just a really good bookmark tool. [00:34:07] Brett_1: [00:34:07] Like, as we speak, I have a button I can push any time and it will insert the timestamp into my show notes. [00:34:16] Jay_1: [00:34:16] Oh, that’s nice. [00:34:17] Brett_1: [00:34:17] since we started recording, thanks to some, uh, some keyboard, Maestro macros, uh, from the good folks at backbeat media, um, which I will link to in the show notes. Let me put a timestamp in here. [00:34:31] Um, yeah. Um, anyhow, did you ever see exists.io? [00:34:37] Jay_1: [00:34:37] I did. [00:34:38] Brett_1: [00:34:38] Did you ever use it? [00:34:40]Jay_1: [00:34:40] I think I signed up for an account and then I forgot about it. [00:34:43]Brett_1: [00:34:43] I used it very, uh, like daily. I don’t want to say religiously cause I don’t do anything religiously, but, um, I use it daily and it goes back to something we were talking about earlier on, um, this idea of, of [00:35:00] mapping data and it would map. Not just the mood that I told it I was in, but it would also keep track of how many GitHub pushes I had, how many, uh, Twitter posts I made, how many Instagram photos I shared, and it would create these correlations and they weren’t always, um, deep, but they were often correlations. [00:35:25] I never would have looked for. And every, every day it would kind of give you like you do this more when this happens. And it was very interesting. I kind of fell off of using it. Um, I still we’ll get the notifications from it telling me that I haven’t entered anything and I keep them because I keep meaning to get back to it. [00:35:44] But it’s that kind of it’s that public data, it’s, it’s extra meaning from stuff that we are publicly sharing anyway. [00:35:52]Jay_1: [00:35:52] I just wonder though, there, there is the idea of like false correlation. [00:36:00] [00:35:59] Brett_1: [00:35:59] Oh, totally. Yeah. [00:36:01] Jay_1: [00:36:01] And I always wonder, like, when you’re trying to make these discoveries, like, Hey, If I can predict when I’m going to hit like a depressive, you know, point and just like my mood swings. Like, yeah, that would be great. However, I think that I’m pretty good at identifying when those things are about to happen. [00:36:26] Like I don’t, I don’t necessarily need something to reading all of my tweets for sentiment analysis and going up, he’s about to hit rock bottom again, watch out everybody hide the RSS feeds. He’s about to do a big dump on everything. So it’s like, I don’t, I don’t think I need that. I think it’s like, If I catch myself and I go, huh, I’ve been playing a lot of Tetris lately. [00:36:48] I should probably talk to them doctor about my medication and, and see like, like explain this, or I should probably reach out to my therapist and like, just let them know. And I [00:37:00] think that if we, if we are like, If we’re trying to track all this stuff to a level that we start self-diagnosing ourselves based on the weather, like, Oh, well, it’s going to rain in three days. [00:37:10] So I see a, a mood swing happening in five. Like I think that’s a dangerous place to be in. [00:37:18] Brett_1: [00:37:18] What if it, what if it really worked though? what if it could learn enough about you to pick up on things like mood swings before you normally would, would that change anything? [00:37:30] Jay_1: [00:37:30] No, because I don’t want anybody having that much information on me. [00:37:34]Brett_1: [00:37:34] But what if, what if, what if it could tell enough about your habits that were already, I mean, you’re already sharing, you’re already posting the Twitter. You’re already, you’re already recording your Tetra scores. Like what, if that data could paint a picture that was truly useful. I guess I don’t know what truly useful. [00:37:55] Yeah. Be because there’s not, I mean, yeah. You could go talk to your doctor about your meds, but what are you going to tell [00:38:00] them? Indicators say that I’m about to have a mood swing. Can we adjust my meds now? Even though I haven’t actually had anything happen yet? Yeah. It could be a very police state world, I suppose. [00:38:12] Jay_1: [00:38:12] You mentioned painting a picture of all that data. Um, I’m sure you’ve seen the subreddit data is beautiful, right? I’m more interested in than just painting pretty pictures. [00:38:24] Brett_1: [00:38:24] Well, and that’s a lot of what I like about exists IO is that it lets me see a record, not so much about correlations and predictions as it is a well, and do you remember? I had an app called Slugger. Did you ever see that. Uh, like that was it drew in from all of my social media platforms and put them into a day, one journal where I could see them by calendar and by tag. [00:38:52] And that’s what that was for was this kind of, um, retrospective picture of, of what I had done. And [00:39:00] I did like that. I let it die, but I did like that. [00:39:03]Jay_1: [00:39:03] Oh, man, I need to, is that source code public of the time I get home? [00:39:08] Brett_1: [00:39:08] It is, it’s a, it’s a mess of a Ruby script, but you’re welcome to revive it. If it, if it can be [00:39:15] Jay_1: [00:39:15] Well, I mean, if you could put all that in elastic and actually let it handle the visualization, so you don’t have to. [00:39:22] Brett_1: [00:39:22] That would be the reason I let it die is because day one changed their database format. And while, while Slugger had gotten popular enough, that day one specifically kept like a backwards compatible import feature for Slugger. Um, it, it was complex enough that I didn’t, I just, it was too much work. I let it go. [00:39:46] Jay_1: [00:39:46] Oh, man. I can blow your mind with some of the stuff that we’re able to do. A lot of these API APIs, we already have built out. [00:39:52] Brett_1: [00:39:52] Oh, I bet [00:39:53]Jay_1: [00:39:53] Oh, this’ll be fun. Uh, I gotta stop talking about work. They’re going to make me log my time or something. [00:39:59]Brett_1: [00:39:59] you get [00:40:00] paid. Be on my podcast. [00:40:01] Jay_1: [00:40:01] I, I told him, I was like, Hey, I’m going to be on a friend show. Um, I’ll try to talk about elastic if I can. [00:40:07]Brett_1: [00:40:07] If it comes up. 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[00:41:04] Every time you go online, the app connects with just one click it’s lightening fast, and the best part is express. VPN costs less than seven bucks a month. Listen, if a breach can happen to capital one, it can easily happen to an individual like you or me. Protect yourself with express VPN, the number one VPN rated by wired CNET, the verge and countless others. [00:41:27] Use my special link express vpn.com/systematic right now to arm yourself with an extra three months of express VPN for free that’s express, vpn.com/systematic for an extra three months. Thanks again to express VPN for sponsoring the show. So. That brings us to the top three picks. I’m excited to hear what you have. [00:41:51] Jay_1: [00:41:51] Me too. It was funny. I messaged you saying like, Man, no wonder you stopped doing your own pigs. This is, this is hard. And it [00:42:00] was because I feel like I get all of my picks from this show. So everything that I’ve wanted to talk about, it was like, Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know if, if this has already been covered or not, but I think I have some. [00:42:16]Brett_1: [00:42:16] back on five by five. I had a scraper that would pick up the top three picks from every episode, which would be like six picks back when I used to do my own and then would compile one big markdown list. That I would publish on my blog. And when I had guests on, I could send them to that page. [00:42:35] You can just do like a tech search just to see if your pick had already been used. But I, after after three different networks, I lost track of how to do that. So I, uh, let’s assume that yours haven’t been picked in at least the last 10 episodes. [00:42:50]Jay_1: [00:42:50] Okay. I think I’m good. In that case, I would. I know that one of the things that I do on my show is, is similar to [00:43:00] that where I tell people like, Hey, at the end of the show, you’re going to interview me. It’s going to become your show. You asked me questions and everybody always freaks out about like, Oh, but what if I asked like a bad question or what if the question’s already been asked? [00:43:12] And I’m like, that’s not your responsibility to know, like, it’s my job as the. The podcaster in chief of my show, I guess, to answer that question in a way that it’s still fresh and relevant for my audience. So I love that. You’re like trying to create all of these ways for people to check, to make sure they’re not duplicating stuff, but at the same time, like everyone’s got their own opinions, but share, share why that [00:43:40] Brett_1: [00:43:40] and I’ve told people, you can duplicate stuff too, if you really feel strongly about it, go for it. So what is your first pick? [00:43:47]Jay_1: [00:43:47] My first pick is an app that I don’t use that often, but I used it today. So I really loved it. It’s the diagrams and it’s on Setapp. So, uh, if [00:44:00] you’re on Setapp good job, make sure that you open marked at least once a day. So break, get some money and then. Joe checkout diagrams. It is simply a diagramming tool, but it is like the most lightweight diagramming tool I’ve ever seen. [00:44:14] It’s not designed to be a power tool. You’re not going to build a house with this thing. You’re simply going to add shapes and lines and connect those things. And maybe some words here and there. And that’s what I love about it because. One of the things that I’m trying to do more and more with my projects is design them first. [00:44:34] So that the code that I write is very deliberate instead of just, I’m going to write a bunch of code, doing a bunch of other things. And then eventually I go back and remove all of that code. I was, I was able to transform 40 blocks of shapes and arrows and tools into six. [00:44:55]Brett_1: [00:44:55] Yeah. Nice. [00:44:57] Jay_1: [00:44:57] that was just like one of the most powerful things. [00:45:00] [00:44:59] I’ve I literally went on stream thinking I’m going to be writing a ton of code. And we sat there and we played with shapes for two hours and it was like, Oh man, no wonder toddlers love doing this so much. And it was just like, I now have a clear idea of how I can implement this, not just in Python, which is my language of choice, but if I wanted to, I could do this in react. [00:45:22] I could do this in Ruby. I could do this in whatever language, you know, suits me best. And to me, that is, that is so powerful in that. It’s the simplicity of it. That makes it so amazing. [00:45:36] Brett_1: [00:45:36] Yeah, I haven’t used diagrams for years since, before setup was a thing. But I remember when it came out, I, I blog about it being the, uh, the perfect, lightweight, alternative to something like Omni Graffel and [00:45:52] Jay_1: [00:45:52] Which I also own, [00:45:53] Brett_1: [00:45:53] sure everyone owns OmniGraffle. How often do you use OmniGraffle though? [00:45:57]Jay_1: [00:45:57] it’s not a minute in this [00:46:00] new job. I haven’t just put it that way. [00:46:02] Brett_1: [00:46:02] I don’t do a lot of diagramming in general. Maybe if I diagram more, I might open OmniGraffle, but. It’s one of those things that you have a use for at some point, and it seems like a great app and it is a great app. Don’t get me wrong. It’s very powerful. Uh, but then your use case passes and now you just own a really good diagramming up. [00:46:23] How much does diagrams costs like 20, uh, if you were [00:46:26] Jay_1: [00:46:26] I have no [00:46:27] Brett_1: [00:46:27] because you have it on setup, right? Uh, it is $20 a month. Uh, if you wanted to buy it directly from the Mac app store. [00:46:35] Jay_1: [00:46:35] Oh, wow. That’s a lot. [00:46:37] Brett_1: [00:46:37] Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, setups a great deal [00:46:42] Jay_1: [00:46:42] There really is. [00:46:43] Brett_1: [00:46:43] and Oh, they keep adding apps that I already own, which is [00:46:47]Jay_1: [00:46:47] You [00:46:48] Brett_1: [00:46:48] great. They’re good apps. [00:46:50] Jay_1: [00:46:50] that’s a good problem to have. I mean, I wouldn’t say I haven’t, I think I’ve marked twice. And now it’s [00:47:00] like, I’m not buying it a third time. I have it on setup so I can make sure that I’m giving you a little bit every time that I use the app, which is quite frequently, it’s an I, to me, I think that that’s a better approach than, Hey, subscribe to this. [00:47:17] Like I’m, I’m struggling now with so many apps subscriptions that it’s, it’s not that I don’t want to support them. I really do. I just feel like. An app like diagrams, a good example. If I’m not using that app every single week, I feel like I’m just burning the money that it would cost to. To do that thing to, to get it versus, Hey, let me just give you 50 bucks or let me just pay, you know, $15 a month. [00:47:44] And you can stretch that out to all of the different tools that I use. Honestly, if set up, charge me per application and they were like, Hey, you just got to pay a dollar for every application that you use. Okay, that’s fine. [00:48:00] I mean, at least I know that like the people that, the tools that I’m using, the developers are getting paid for that that’s perfectly fine. [00:48:06] I would rather do that any day than to say, well, some app just updated. I think like reader five just came out and it’s like, do I really want to spend $45 on an app that I’m going to use for two weeks and then get rid of probably not. I’m just going to keep building my own RSS reader. [00:48:22]Brett_1: [00:48:22] So, I, I know I’ve mentioned this on the show before, but, uh, when, when you run it. If, if you own an app and have it on setup, the setup developer only gets paid when you run the setup version. So I wrote a script that will go through all of your installed applications and tell you which ones are available on set app, which ones you might have, like two installations of. [00:48:49] And then you can use that to delete. The original versions of the app. So you automatically run the setup version that that’ll be linked in the show notes because [00:49:00] Hey, it’s how you get the most out of setup. Anyway, what’s your number two. [00:49:04]Jay_1: [00:49:04] Alright. So my number two pig, I’m going to, I’m going to make an audible here. Um, But a lot of people I would think are nerdy enough to use a pie hole. Um, are you familiar with it? [00:49:17] Brett_1: [00:49:17] I am not. [00:49:18]Jay_1: [00:49:18] So I have a raspberry pie, [00:49:21] Brett_1: [00:49:21] I, I am familiar with this. I, yeah, it took me a sec, but yes, go ahead. [00:49:25] Jay_1: [00:49:25] so I have a raspberry pie and I wasn’t sure what I would do with it. Again, you see a hammer, you, it looks shiny. It looks new. You want to buy it just to buy it? I decided that I was going to let it become my primary DNS server. And I set up a pie hole, which is quite literally the best anti-trafficking ad blocking tool that I’ve ever used. [00:49:54] I will say that it has blocked things to the point that they don’t function. [00:50:00] Like they should. Which to me is more of a knock on the app developer than the software itself, because I’m sorry, like I think a good example of this is on my iPad. My YouTube history doesn’t update on my, on my computer. It does. [00:50:23] On my iPhone. It does, but on my iPad, my history doesn’t update unless I’m not on my network. And then it updates. So to me, it’s like, wait a minute. What are you, what are you doing that some tracker is blocking on the iPad that is preventing my history from being updated only on my iPad, when everything else runs through the same network, using the same protocols, like it’s all doing the same thing. [00:50:51] Why? And like, my wife gets mad because she plays a lot of games that have ads, you know, built into them. And she’s like, I’ll just [00:51:00] watch the ads. And it’s like, well, you, you can’t, she gets mad. Cause the games crash. And I’m like, all right, well, here you use, you get tracked. I won’t. And I know that Apple has their own builtin protection of sorts. [00:51:18] But if I go to Safari in the last seven days, 118 trackers have been profiling me. I turned on my I, my pie hole yesterday. Cause I broke the power cable by mistake. Um, but I got that fixed and then I turned it on yesterday. And since yesterday I’ve blocked 1,168 queries out of 10,000 total. So 10 per 11% of my queries are being blocked. [00:51:50]Brett_1: [00:51:50] That’s good, right? [00:51:52] Jay_1: [00:51:52] I mean, it’s a lot better than 118 [00:51:54]Brett_1: [00:51:54] Nice. All right. How hard was it? How hard is it to build one? [00:51:58]Jay_1: [00:51:58] by [00:52:00] raspberry pie. Go to the pie hole website and copy paste. [00:52:04]Brett_1: [00:52:04] Oh, alright. I S I still have never played with the raspberry PI. [00:52:09]Jay_1: [00:52:09] I, I got it. Thinking I was going to, do you remember the Amazon dash buttons? I saw a talk and I can’t remember who it was or where it was from, but basically when you push those buttons, it sends a broadcast signal out on your network. And I wanted to figure out how to intercept those buttons and make my own custom stream deck because yeah, that’s, that’s definitely not a hammer searching for a nail. [00:52:38] Um, So I never wound up doing, I got it to where I could intercept the signal as it was happening, but I’d never followed through on the, when I push this button, do a thing, I just got to the, Hey, when I push a button, I can see the thing and it doesn’t actually buy new products on Amazon. And then after that they [00:53:00] discontinued the dash button. [00:53:01] So I was like, alright, well, I’m not going to play with this. If Amazon’s not going to continue it. [00:53:06] Brett_1: [00:53:06] Fair enough. So what’s your third pick? [00:53:09]Jay_1: [00:53:09] My third pick is an artist. And I know that that’s, that’s going to be challenging. Um, have you heard of Jacob Collier? So Jacob Collier makes music that musicians, especially jazz musicians, like in everyone, else’s like what in the hell is happening? but the thing that I like about Jacob Collier is that he’s a logic user, which I am as well, but he’s the logic user that we all imagine ourselves being, um, a really good song. [00:53:43] And I’ll, I’ll send you a link, uh, that he did was, it’s all I need. It’s Jacob, call your Mahalia and Ty dollar sign. I know that’s a weird combination, but that track that four minute and 16, second track had over [00:54:00] 800 tracks in logic and he will sit there on YouTube and go through how he. [00:54:07]Produced and arranged that logic session over like a three hour live stream. And if you love music, if you love logic, if you love the idea of like, Hey, how does someone think in terms of music? This by far is like just gold is just pure amazingness. [00:54:31] Brett_1: [00:54:31] Yeah, I could get into that. I, uh, I, as, as part of researching, when I, when I relaunched the podcast, I wanted to get better at audio editing. And I’ve been using digital audio workstations since like early Sony, carnations and Cubase back on a PC in like the nineties. And I’ve never felt really, actually good at production. [00:54:57] And so I started [00:55:00] studying and a lot of it, I just looked into editing, like podcast, vocals, compression EEQ, stuff like that. But in the process of researching that I would get into these, uh, like vocal compression for, uh, for pop music. And you, you you’re dealing with 10 to 50 takes of the exact same track. [00:55:24] And the way that people would blend and, and pan and, uh, compressed, and these five tracks are going to this bus and then sent back through this. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. And like, I can’t imagine getting that deep into a music recording. I would, it would be more than I think my brain could handle, but it’s definitely fascinating. [00:55:50]Jay_1: [00:55:50] So I grew up around the music. I guess seen, I don’t want to say industry. Um, my uncle was a [00:56:00] producer and an artist. He still is, I guess, but he was one too. Um, but he currently owns an old Motown studio, like one of their actual old studios. And so I, I had a human Cubase. I remember recording on that. Like a, probably a it’s probably like a. [00:56:20] And Epiphone Les Paul piped into like a zoom guitar to digital, like audio interface into like this PC that I like Frankenstein together and recording directly into like Cubase Ellie, because that’s the way it came with the zoom audio. Oh, I definitely call you there. And I mean, even some of the things that I’ve learned just. [00:56:47] Watching him do things like, like you said, there’s no way, like I’m never going to use half of the things that he’s doing for an hour long podcast asked, but [00:57:00] I might learn a little bit about bus chaining and I might learn a thing or two about compression and you know how to make sure that. Your audio isn’t too Basey or isn’t too tinny and being able to take those little things. [00:57:17] Yeah. I mean, again, that is kind of been the culmination of what I’ve done in the podcast. Passing space is. Taking things that other people are doing that I’m not, I’m not going to do. I’m not going to be them. But if I can find like one little bit of something that can inspire me to do what I’m doing slightly different, then that’s. [00:57:39] That’s what I’m looking for. And I mean, again, I, I just, I love the music, but I love the music more because I hear all of the little things that often get drowned out because he, he takes time to emphasize them. Like there’s I think in one of the tracks that he [00:58:00] did. Oh, it is it sleeping on my dreams? Like there’s a cartoon animation sound of like kind of a hammer hitting an anvil and like Yosemite, Sams, like gunshots going off. [00:58:14] And you can hear, you can’t hear them in the full song, but then when he stops and gives five minutes on. How it came to him to use that animation and how it just kind of completed, you know, it filled in some of the empty space that needed to be filled. And then for that, every time you hear the song, you hear those notes and you, yeah. [00:58:37] There’s, there’s that Yosemite Sam like piece and you’re like, Aw, man, that’s amazing. Like it makes you see things differently when you know what it took to make those things happen. [00:58:49] Brett_1: [00:58:49] Totally. Yeah, I’ve enjoyed. Uh I’ve. I mentioned it on the show that Eric Linder was on, but, uh, Billie Eilish and her brother Phineas put down a lot of, uh, [00:59:00] song breakdowns and they talk about like all the different sounds that. Got incorporated into the mixes. And there’s one where they’re talking about this a street. [00:59:12] I like the crosswalk sound in Australia that I pulled out a pocket recorder and just picked up, picked it up. Cause it was, it sounded cool. And then you can hear it once, you know, to look for it. You can hear it. I think it’s in. Bad guy. Maybe. I don’t remember. I don’t know if you’re a Billie Eilish fan, but, but yeah, like those, that kind of audio engineering is totally, uh, totally in my wheelhouse. [00:59:39] Like that’s the stuff I get really excited about. [00:59:42]Jay_1: [00:59:42] Yeah, Jacob Collier is one of those that I think he has a video on wired that is explain harmony and five levels of difficulties starting with the child and ending with Herbie Hancock. [00:59:54] Brett_1: [00:59:54] Oh, those wired videos on YouTube. Yeah. I love those. Cool. [01:00:00] All right. Well, let’s tell people where all they can find you. [01:00:04]Jay_1: [01:00:04] So, if you want to read what I’m writing about, go to KJ Y miller.com. That’s KJ miller.com, but everyone never spells out the J a Y part. So yeah, KJ a Y miller.com. If you want to hear what I’m. Tweeting about follow me on Twitter, KJ Miller. Uh, and then if you want to know what I’m doing in my job, the job and projects that I’m doing, just follow me on GitHub at the same. [01:00:34] And yeah, you can even sponsor some of my more socially active passion projects, like finding more developer advocates of color to follow and stalk through RSS. [01:00:46] Brett_1: [01:00:46] And then, uh, the pitcher. [01:00:48]Jay_1: [01:00:48] Oh, yeah. I forgot to do that thing too. Right. Um, so the pitch shows that productivity in tech.com. Um, again, also I tweet about it. So you can catch an episode on Twitter. They come [01:01:00] out weekly ish, like, um, usually weekly. Uh, but yeah, that’s a productivity in tech.com and then hit the podcast button at the top. [01:01:10] Brett_1: [01:01:10] Alright, well, thanks for being here. [01:01:12]Jay_1: [01:01:12] Again, dreams accomplished.

Alex Cox, Senior AV Producer at Cards Against Humanity and prolific podcaster, joins Brett to talk about gender, bipolar disorder, and the wonders of virtual reality. @alexcox Two Headed Girl @twoheadedgirlfm Do by Friday @dobyfriday Repo Man Women’s Roller Derby Has a Plan for Covid, and It Kicks Ass Don Schaffner Show Links Top 3 Picks Why Fish Don’t Exist Descript Black Leopard Red Wolf Virtual Reality Occulus Quest Jaron Lanier Lawnmower Man Upload When Did I…? doing Join the Community Join us on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at systematicpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. Find Brett as @ttscoff on all social media platforms, and follow Systematic at @systmcast on Twitter. Transcript Brett + 2 [00:00:00]Brett: [00:00:00] My guest this week is Alex Cox, senior AAV producer at cards against humanity and a prolific podcaster. Welcome to the show, Alex. [00:00:09]Alex: [00:00:09] Hello. Thank you so much for having me. [00:00:12] Brett: [00:00:12] Again, actually, this is I think your second time, right? [00:00:16] Alex: [00:00:16] yeah, the first time I was on, I threw up before and after we recorded, because I was so nervous and listening to that episode last night, I’m like, well, you know, it’s not the best, but you sure can’t tell how I want to vomit. And I should say the reason is. Because this has been such a formative show for me and to be on it a couple of years ago was just wild. [00:00:42] And it’s still wild to be here. Thank you so much. [00:00:47] Brett: [00:00:47] I love hearing that from you because you are an amazing, uh, con content producer. Um, my girlfriend has actually, you, you guys met briefly in Chicago, [00:00:58] Alex: [00:00:58] Oh yeah. It was so [00:01:00] fun when people were allowed to hang out. [00:01:04] Brett: [00:01:04] right. In large, large groups. But, uh, but she became a huge fan of yours. I shouldn’t make it sound like she’s the crazy fan girl, but she, she follows you very closely. [00:01:15] She loved you. Um, she actually helped me come up with some of the questions on my slate today. [00:01:20]Alex: [00:01:20] Oh, Oh boy. [00:01:22] Brett: [00:01:22] So say hi, Elle. [00:01:24]Alex: [00:01:24] Hi. Hi L I, I miss you. And I hope that one day we get to hang out in real life again. [00:01:31] Brett: [00:01:31] That would be so much fun. [00:01:32]Alex: [00:01:32] In 20, 29. [00:01:35] Brett: [00:01:35] I literally just, I just started going to Comicon in like 2019, [00:01:41]Alex: [00:01:41] Yeah. I mean, I don’t miss it yet for sure, but that’s because a, it’s very much part of my job, your job, but, um, I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s pretty wild. [00:01:56]Brett: [00:01:56] So, let’s see right now, [00:02:00] you, in, in your podcast life, you have a couple of really cool projects. Uh, the first one I want to mention is two headed girl. which is a podcast you do with your partner, Matty. And, uh, tell us a little bit about what that project entailed. [00:02:17]Alex: [00:02:17] Girl is a podcast. I like you said, I make with my spouse, Maddie, and it’s all about transitions and. Some, some what? Uh, notably it’s about gender transition and he’s a trans mask person. Um, yeah, and I am, who knows what the heck I am a gender queer. Non-binary some people would call me trans. You got to listen to the show, I guess. [00:02:48]Go to two headed girl.transistor.fm. Um, but we have for the past, maybe three years just been, um, [00:03:00] recording our own like small, personal interactions about how we feel. About gender, um, and our mental illnesses. Uh, we’re both bipolar. Uh, and yeah, it’s kind of just an exercise in being vulnerable and an exercise in, um, documenting like our young adulthood into what I hope is medium adulthood. [00:03:31] As we both turned 30 this year. And. Uh, I mean, I don’t know. It’s, it’s, it’s very much like, uh, it’s very, very good, but that’s because of Matt, not, not because of me, it’s, it’s kind of a, uh, sort of journal personal journal type show. So yeah. [00:03:51] Brett: [00:03:51] Yeah, I think it’s been, I think it’s been really informative for a lot of people inside and outside of the trans community. I think there’s a lot [00:04:00] to relate to there for everybody. You might need to help me out. What is trans mask mean? [00:04:05]Alex: [00:04:05] Uh, just, uh, well, when you say just, and then related to gender that’s that’s that doesn’t ever, [00:04:14] Brett: [00:04:14] It’s [00:04:15] Alex: [00:04:15] uh, Well, as you, as you know, Bob, um, but I don’t want to speak totally for him, but, uh, trans mask person is just someone who is traditionally very far to the more masculine side of sort of the gender spectrum, but not fully like a doesn’t fully identify as a binary man. [00:04:42] Does that sort of make sense? Yeah. It’s and the thing is it might not make sense to some people and that’s okay because, uh, you know, who cares it, it shouldn’t, uh, I, it’s not that gender shouldn’t interest people, um, [00:05:00] it’s that most of the time, gender isn’t relevant, relevant, uh, but part, part of the reason we also did this podcast is because there’s a lot of, uh, tone policing. [00:05:11] And nervousness around asking questions about gender, um, and still sexuality, honestly. And we’re kind of like, no, ask us the questions that you think are problematic. Uh, like learn, be good allies. Nobody is perfect. Like c’mon like, it’s okay. It’s okay. So that’s kind of, um, another thing we, we try to hit on because I have my own, uh, internal, you know, like, uh, Internalized transphobia and stuff like that. [00:05:43] So it’s, we try not to preach to the choir too much, um, except in terms of our bad, bad jokes and puns. Um, but I mean, yeah, there’s a lot of things that don’t make sense and that’s okay because the [00:06:00] world isn’t fair or logical and neither is gender. [00:06:03]Brett: [00:06:03] What is in your opinion, one of the more interesting questions that you’ve, uh, you’ve tackled. [00:06:10]Alex: [00:06:10] Oh, yeah. Oh, that’s I mean, there’s interesting. And then there’s embarrassing. My favorite question that has ever been asked was about, um, the literal growth of a penis. Um, which was an absolute delight because people truly don’t know how the human body works, which is also like, okay, because I don’t know how the human body works. [00:06:39] The president of the United States doesn’t know the human body works. Uh, [00:06:43] Brett: [00:06:43] a low bar [00:06:44]Alex: [00:06:44] I know. Yeah, not theirs. Uh, there’s only up from there really, but I think the most interesting questions we get are the ones that related to sexuality versus gender, because they are two [00:07:00] very separate things. Um, it just so happens that they. [00:07:05] Oh, overlap with one another. So, um, I’m trying to think of a specific example, like, uh, Oh, uh, folks will ask. So did you, what part of queer did you know you were first, did you, did you know that you were queer in the, like you typic, typically liked women or did you know you were queer in terms of like trans or gender queer and. [00:07:29] My answer to that is usually like, Hm, I’m still figuring that out. Let’s just Gus that, uh, because I think the way that we have mushed gender and sexuality together is, uh, interesting, but also can be damaging for, for folks. [00:07:51]Brett: [00:07:51] Um, I’m not sure. I think answering that question would depend on the person and at what, at what [00:08:00] point they learned about spectrums. Cause I think most people don’t. Don’t come to understand gender, spectrum and sexuality spectrums at the exact same time. [00:08:10]Alex: [00:08:10] Absolutely. Yeah. And I, I did not. And also that, that, that penis question actually came as a, uh, like, like was. Asked, uh, in a healthy good, good way. Like I w we often invite these questions because, uh, normally don’t ask anyone what’s in their pants when it’s not appropriate. Uh, but on this podcast, uh, we attend, we intentionally do Q and A’s where we’re like, yeah, Go for it. [00:08:41] Go buck wild because you know, there’s, there’s a dad sitting in the middle of camp, Kansas, uh, who has like somehow around my work through either cards against humanity or Merlin man. And then it’s like, Oh, I understand this a little bit more. [00:09:00] Or, uh, he might be like, I don’t understand this at all, but I see now that it doesn’t really matter. [00:09:06] Okay, cool. So, I mean, I don’t like to say that it’s an educational show, but that’s how some people have described it. [00:09:18] Brett: [00:09:18] I hate to tell you, but it really is. Uh, [00:09:21] Alex: [00:09:21] Thank [00:09:22] Brett: [00:09:22] it, yeah, no, it serves as a really good resource. Uh, you. Not too long ago. Uh, I don’t want to say documented, but, uh, discussed, uh, Maddie’s top surgery, [00:09:33] Alex: [00:09:33] yeah. [00:09:34] Brett: [00:09:34] was, I mean, for someone coming from like way outside of any of that, I have a lot to learn there. [00:09:41]Alex: [00:09:41] I mean, I had a lot of book, both of us had a lot to learn, um, because it’s not something that’s talked about often. Um, not just because of the stigma of being trans, but because there is a [00:10:00] stigma amongst trans folks who, um, They, they have opinions about what is consent centered, the quote, right way to transition to female, to male or male to female. [00:10:16] Uh, and, and there are some folks who are like, if you don’t get full. Like a w w what they would call it a full transition, like be on hormones, get all sort of gender. Like every gender affirmation surgery, you can get a, if you don’t do that, then you’re not really trans. And that is the. Narrative that I know, not that I believed, but, um, that I heard until I was in my late teens, probably early twenties, actually. [00:10:48] So, uh, we really wanted to document that process, especially because this happened after we had been, um, Together said I, Oh gosh, I [00:11:00] don’t know. Uh, but, but w we are married and we’ve been married for three years, I think. Oh, no four. Cause we got married after Trump was elected because we were scared. Um, and I think that’s also kind of an interesting component of the show. [00:11:16] Uh, and I’ve, I find, um, couples who have transitioned later in life. Really interesting and can, uh, like I get along well with them because there aren’t a lot of, um, adult trans narratives just because are ones that are like visible that, uh, aren’t aren’t some buddy, like, uh, who’s why. See, that’s the thing where I’m like, who’s a famous binary trans person, uh, who isn’t problematic. [00:11:53] Uh, yeah. That’s like most people think that like Caitlyn Jenner is the only trans woman that [00:12:00] exists just sucks. And I’m like, The here here’s a, an then I direct them to one of my favorite YouTube creators, Contra points who talks about gender as well as fascism. Um, some and, and it’s, it’s great. Yeah. I’m babbling more than I did the first time. [00:12:21] You said you had questions. [00:12:22] Brett: [00:12:22] I do. I [00:12:23] Alex: [00:12:23] It’s your show. [00:12:24] Brett: [00:12:24] that. You you’re doing great. [00:12:26]Alex: [00:12:26] Thank you. [00:12:27] Brett: [00:12:27] before we leave the topic of two headed girl, Um, you, you mentioned, and I hadn’t realized that, uh, you’re both bipolar. Is it, is it safe to talk about this? [00:12:39] Alex: [00:12:39] Oh, for sure. [00:12:40] Brett: [00:12:40] Okay. Cause I’ve been, I’ve been trying to be more open about my own bipolar disorder, uh, as of recently what’s it. [00:12:48]So in my relationship with L um, I’m the only bipolar person, but we’ve kind of learned to. Recognize mania prepare for [00:13:00] depression and, uh, kind of ride that roller coaster together. how complicated is it to have two different rollercoasters, probably peaking at different times in a relationship. [00:13:13]Alex: [00:13:13] the roller coaster analogy is, is perfect. Um, but yeah. I beat because, um, for me, at least sometimes roller coasters are a good and maybe not fun, but, uh, they D doesn’t have to be a terrible experience, both of us. Um, like we, and in fact, when we met, I think we, I don’t know how the topic of mental illness came up, but, you know, we went to art school and feelings just happen all the time, but. [00:13:48]We vary because we were so open about it. Um, we kind of learned what each other’s, uh, like peaks and valleys [00:14:00] look like and what were kind of the signs that a manic episode might be coming and how to prepare for that. And also, um, we definitely, we’ve definitely noticed that, um, When one of us is in a more extreme, low, um, or in a really high point or mania, uh, w it’s. [00:14:31]We’re able to be self aware enough that it’s like, okay, we are both in bad places. So let’s find outside help. Whether that means like, Hey, I like you should make an extra therapy appointment or, Hey, did you take your meds on time? So really little stuff like that, honestly. And sometimes there, there can be like big flare ups and it sucks a whole lot, but really communication has. [00:15:00] [00:14:59] Been key and, uh, not, not just for like maintaining a good relationship, but it has made both of our lives better. Like even if it was not a romantic partnership, like having, uh, having my best friend know what is inside my brain a lot of the time is just super helpful and I’m very, very lucky. [00:15:24] Brett: [00:15:24] Yeah, it’s communication. I would say is the number one, uh, strategy that Elle and I have for dealing with my own manic and depressive episodes. Just being able to clearly, and honestly communicate what we’re seeing and what we’re. Feeling and having, for me, having someone there to say this isn’t real, not, not that my, my disorder isn’t real, but what I’m feeling, especially in my depressed, uh, episodes that what, the way that I’m seeing the world at that point, isn’t real. [00:15:57] And it is so helpful to have someone who can [00:16:00] just tap me on the shoulder and say, you know what, you’re depressed. Like th things aren’t th the, the world is not as agonizing as it looks to you right now. I promise. Although in 2020, you never know. [00:16:13] Alex: [00:16:13] exactly. Exactly. It’s it’s uh, yeah, I always appreciate another person’s perspective in with the two of us, even if we are both in a really bad place. And, you know, in 2020, it happens more often. It happened in, you know, more often than not, um, But, uh, such a good point, having another person to say, um, this isn’t real w whether it’s me, um, like sometimes I will have auditory and visual hallucinations and. [00:16:47] I’m lucky enough that usually I can tell that it is just a manifestation of an anxiety, uh, but to have a be like, don’t worry. [00:17:00] I know that that this fear is real right now, but that is not real what you’re seeing or hearing. And I can say to him, um, When he has misperceptions about his body or the way people feel like, Hey, this is okay. [00:17:15] Just you’re you’re spiraling and yeah. Wow. I’ve never thought about it like that before. That’s great. Thank you. [00:17:24] Brett: [00:17:24] Yeah. Yeah. I’m happy to share what I go through because literally if I don’t document, um, in some form or another, the things I figure out, I will forget them the next week. [00:17:36]Alex: [00:17:36] Do you track your mood at all? [00:17:40] Brett: [00:17:40] I was really good about it for a long time. And then I found that using a sleep tracker was almost a perfect indicator of my moods. And well, it was for a while. And then that stopped working and I didn’t go back to manually [00:18:00] tracking my moods, but, uh, multiple times over the last few episodes, I said that I was going to start tracking my moods again. [00:18:08]Alex: [00:18:08] The well, and, and that’s, that’s why I asked because I’ve also kind of fallen off the wagon with that. I used to be really good too, and I am really good at tracking my sleep. Uh, and it’s, it can kind of correlate, but right now I’m just doing like the old. Fashion like journaling, like how was my mood today? [00:18:33] But I want that I really like, you know, graphs and pie charts. And I want to see the data, the, the, the, the, the data that my irrational brain is putting out. [00:18:46] Brett: [00:18:46] Yeah, for sure. I, I really, I had a couple years where I was tracking all of that stuff and, uh, was able to look and kind of see patterns and peaks and [00:19:00] it. It helped make sense of a lot of things. I think it actually helped me get better treatment by being able to share that with my doctor. And as I’m saying this, I realized I really do need to get back to that. [00:19:11] That is good data to have. Do you, when you have manic episodes, do you still sleep? [00:19:17]Alex: [00:19:17] It’s a pen. I mean, I have. Uh, but, uh, bipolar one. And I think we talked about this a little, a little bit before. It’s like the more there’s bipolar one and there’s bipolar two and bipolar one is typically the difference is like really extreme forms of mania. Like not sleeping for days. On end. And that very much used to be me. [00:19:48] Like it used to be me in terms of, um, one not sleeping too, hallucinating a whole, a whole bunch. And then three having like the [00:20:00] most irrational thoughts possible. Um, now I’ve gotten to sort of a state where I am. I’ve got. But I’m pretty stable and high functioning on the meds. I’m on. Luckily, uh, But even, so I have what people consider hypomanic episodes, where else sleep, but like for two hours, two to four hours a night and that’ll happen for a couple of weeks. [00:20:30] And then I’m just destroyed. And I kind of slip into a depressive period, which this all sounds very sad, sad to people, or it might sound sad to some people, but like it’s actually a lot. Better than it used to be. And that, uh, for, for me also the data of, Oh, these months went by where you didn’t track your, uh, mood is it’s become almost as important as my sleep tracking. [00:20:59] Cause [00:21:00] it’s like, ah, yes. Is the sleep tracking as I get less and less sleep, I am tracking my mood less and less. So I mean, even a lack of data has been helpful, I guess. [00:21:10]Brett: [00:21:10] Yeah. I, uh, my, my episodes, uh, over the last, probably couple years, they have been consistently only, uh, between three and six days long. And, uh, and I, I generally will sleep between zero and two hours a night during. A manic episode. And I, by the end of it, like, I will be, my brain will be working at manic levels, but my body will be so tired out that I ended up just kind of like staring at look, I’ll, I’ll want to sit in front of my computer and I’ll want to code. [00:21:51] Cause that’s, that’s like my favorite thing to do when I’m manic. My brain just wants to write code. And I’ll end up just sitting and staring at, uh, [00:22:00] my text editor for hours. It’s, uh, I hate it. I really do. I really want to, I don’t. So then I get like depressed and, and I, I expect that to happen and things are awful for another three days to a week. [00:22:17] Uh, so relatively short episodes, but then I get stable. And after a week of being stable, I miss being manic. And I don’t, I don’t go out of my way to try to trigger manic episodes, but I definitely have this thing in my head where this would be so much more fun if I were manic right now. and it didn’t, I didn’t use to think of it in those words, because I didn’t always realize that it was mania. That it, that was what I was making it enjoyable for me. I thought I just had. Um, good reactions to my meds or something. I don’t know what I thought, but yeah. Anyway, that’s my story. [00:23:00] [00:22:59] Alex: [00:22:59] What happens after you come down in, in your stable? How, like how long does it take you to get back into a regular sleep cycle? And like, does that affect your body? Uh, physically? Well, you can say you’re just sitting at, uh, the tech center or, uh, staring, but what about just. You know, like, do you get sick more often? [00:23:28] Or what do do you just kind of just completely shut down so that there’s really nothing that your body has to do. [00:23:36] Brett: [00:23:36] Um, so like right after a manic episode [00:23:40] Alex: [00:23:40] Yeah. Like to get rid of sleep debt and [00:23:43] Brett: [00:23:43] yeah. Which I’ve learned is not, not a possible thing to do, but, um, [00:23:49]Alex: [00:23:49] right. [00:23:50] Brett: [00:23:50] on, on the day that it ends and I can feel it ending. I can, all of a sudden my brain will just. Relax. [00:24:00] And we’ll know that the mania has done and I’m about to sleep and I will sleep hard and I will sleep most of the time for like three days and eventually get back to a pretty normal sleep schedule. [00:24:16] And, uh, as far as getting sick, I, I wouldn’t say I am the healthiest person in the world, but I, I. I do yoga regularly. I keep myself going despite, uh, emotional and mental circumstances. And, um, I couldn’t run, uh, uh, I couldn’t run more than a mile without dying, I don’t get ill very often. [00:24:43]Alex: [00:24:43] No, that that’s. That’s awesome. Um, one thing I realized, uh, during, you know, this pandemic is how much mania has affected. My [00:25:00] physical health, because I really haven’t gotten, I got maybe like one sinus infection in April. Um, and typically I it’s just like a genetic thing. I get a lot of sinus infections every, every single year. [00:25:16] Um, But now that I’m not around human beings, uh, it, I don’t get sick anymore. And that the only time, uh, that, that I got sick, it was because I didn’t sleep for, I don’t know, four days it was getting up to the point where I was like, all right. If I, if this keeps going, like I have moved some, something’s got to give, um, But I mean, yeah. [00:25:43] Um, I think I’m going to be like a mask lifer now. Uh, because I am like, Oh, this is, so if I stay away from people’s germs, I’m not going to be all sniffly. This was, this was awesome masks all the time. [00:25:59] Brett: [00:25:59] I [00:26:00] think, uh, when you met Elle, she was, she was already wearing a mask. Wasn’t she? [00:26:04]Alex: [00:26:04] Oh yeah, yeah. Go ahead of the curve, man. [00:26:08] Brett: [00:26:08] Wait. And as soon as, as soon as her health improved enough that she didn’t have to wear a mask anymore, she had to wear a mask again because of, you know, [00:26:15] Alex: [00:26:15] Oh, that sucks. [00:26:18]Brett: [00:26:18] at least she already owned cool looking masks. [00:26:22] Alex: [00:26:22] trill. True. Silver linings. [00:26:25]Brett: [00:26:25] Um, but by the time I get to the end of a manic episode, though, I am physically a wreck. Uh, I. I’m delirious. I don’t communicate. Well, I shake, um, um, just basically extreme sleep deprivation without the like quiet mind. Yeah. It’s okay. I’m a wreck. I should document better what it’s like at the very end, because I wrote a post for my blog, uh, basically from the middle of a manic episode. [00:26:59] Uh, [00:27:00] fully knowing that I was in a manic episode and wanting to document it. Um, and then I wrote it, I was going to write another one from the depression side, but then I was depressed and I was not writing. Um, so I waited until after that passed, I asked and then wrote about it in retrospect, but that I’m way better at documenting the mania though. [00:27:26] Because it just kind of pours out of you. Like a, [00:27:29] Alex: [00:27:29] Oh, [00:27:30] Brett: [00:27:30] I just want to talk, talk, talk, talk, doc, tell everyone everyone wants to hear everything I have to say. Let’s do it. Uh, it’s a very different mindset. [00:27:38] Alex: [00:27:38] I mean doing a weekly podcast for the past. Um, Oh gosh. I don’t even know for here. Oh yeah. Four years. Um, having to, I never like fake. Enthusiasm or happiness on, uh, [00:28:00] shows at least I hope I don’t. Um, but I’ve noticed that people can absolutely tell when I am depressed or more often they can tell when I’m, you know, hypomanic during a due by Friday episode, because I’m like just talking real, real fast. [00:28:19] And I’m stammering more. I bet other stammering more than usual or not stammering at all, neither of them, but I it’s, it’s kind of an intro interesting way of being held accountable because there’s always that tiny temptation in the back of my mind of like, yeah, I could get to that manic state that I find to be productive really easy if I just, you know, avoided these few white pills and then I. [00:28:47] I I’m like you, I, when I am depressed, I don’t talk about how happy I am that I have medication and how it keeps me from not feeling like this. So, uh, [00:29:00] yeah, I guess once again, important for me to have the data and I need to track it more myself. [00:29:08] Brett: [00:29:08] So how, how much time do you have tonight? [00:29:11]Alex: [00:29:11] Oh, um, however much you need. [00:29:15] Brett: [00:29:15] Okay. Cause I’m realizing that I had not planned for the bipolar discussion and that took up a big part of the show. No, it’s awesome. I’m really, like I said, this is something I’ve been wanting to talk about more. Uh, but I have this whole list of questions. Um, did you know that Alex Cox directed repo man? [00:29:34] Alex: [00:29:34] Oh, I do indeed. And sit in Nancy. Good. It’s good stuff. [00:29:41]Brett: [00:29:41] I Googled. I was just trying to make sure I was caught up on, on you and, and your public persona and it can repo man came up and I love that soundtrack. It was such a good movie. Nice job on that. [00:29:55] Alex: [00:29:55] It’s I know I worked a little lot on it. Um, and like 10 years [00:30:00] before I was born too, it was, it was quite a trip. [00:30:03] Brett: [00:30:03] about mania. So here’s a question, a post, when I was brainstorming questions with Al uh, to ask you one that we thought would be interesting is simply, do you think technology can save us? [00:30:19]Alex: [00:30:19] no, uh, Yeah. Well, I think, uh, I think people you’re going to save us and technology is going to be a big, big part of that, but I don’t think tech in itself is going to save us. In fact, when it’s. When technology is implemented to solve problems, it, uh, I mean you’re a year, a big computer person. You note that it can often break things more than it solves problems. [00:30:52] Uh, and often that’s due to, uh, user or manufacturer error, [00:31:00] uh, because whether it be a single person or an entire team, A lot of times, uh, there’s not a lot of diverse input. And when you’re designing like a, an entire, um, the potential artificial intelligence, it’s kind of important to have a lot of different people on that. [00:31:21] So, yeah, [00:31:23] Brett: [00:31:23] con conversely, and I think it would, I expect a very similar answer, but do you think technology will destroy us? [00:31:31]Alex: [00:31:31] no, uh, I think [00:31:33] Brett: [00:31:33] will destroy it. [00:31:35]Alex: [00:31:35] I do think, um, yeah, people, people will destroy us. And I, and I don’t want this to sound like, uh, the only thing that can stop a good guy, bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Um, but I think just destroy as an interesting word, because I think some things. [00:32:00] Should be destroyed. [00:32:01] So like what, what do you mean by us? Like, uh, technology has destroyed a lot of things. Good, good and, and bad. Um, hopefully it doesn’t destroy democracy. Um, but you know, uh, what, what do I know. [00:32:17] Brett: [00:32:17] actually, I think I, I hadn’t considered the us in that sentence. Um, but I, I do think that in my head, when I asked that question, um, I’m wondering about America and American democracy. And I guess that’s where my head goes right away. That’s not to say that’s where the question was intended to go, but I think you’re right about that. [00:32:40] Alex: [00:32:40] Yeah. I mean, that’s sort of, this thing is like, okay, the. Biggest news stories of the day, almost always break off on Twitter, which is where, what my friends used to. We used to text each other in high school [00:33:00] because you know, not everybody had unlimited texting yet, so we would just use Twitter and then check our phones or computers later. [00:33:08] Uh, And, uh, so yeah, it’s, it is how we use it and I actually, Hmm. I’m gonna probably get in trouble. Oh, it depends. I don’t know. Uh, but I it’s somewhat similar to the goal. Gut gun argument is, is regulation and how we are handling check. I mean, Facebook. It sure has been in the limelight along with Apple. Um, I hadn’t, I don’t know. [00:33:43] I don’t think tech has the ability to destroy us. Basically. It’s going to be the humans using tech poorly. [00:33:52] Brett: [00:33:52] Yeah, that’s fair or, or, uh, or, um, maliciously even. [00:33:57]Alex: [00:33:57] well, I mean, even, even if they, [00:34:00] I really, I do think Facebook was started with malicious intentions. In fact, I mean, canonically, it has been, it was created with malicious intentions, but I don’t really think. [00:34:11] That’s how Twitter was created, but, uh, here we are. Uh, and now literally the most powerful man in the world is, goes on what may or may not be psychotic or diluted episodes. And it’s very frightening. Uh, but. We see that Twitter has the power to change that. And they sometimes they, they usually don’t make the right call in my opinion, but maybe that’s how baby the next Twitter could not save us, but put it push us in the right direction. [00:34:54] Brett: [00:34:54] Hey, if you wish death on a white man, [00:34:58]Alex: [00:34:58] I’m sorry. That was [00:35:00] the scene that tweet go around was wow. Twitter really forgot about Gamergate. Well, I, um, I, I mean, I, if people, some, for some reason don’t know that, uh, Twitter. Put they put into place, the practice of removing content that not even wishes death, just wishes, harm on the president. Uh, like, uh, you might be suspended and it’s going to be taken down. [00:35:35] And one of my friends and in fact reply it like, uh, wasn’t that, wasn’t your stance when you sent me this. And it was somebody sending him a death threat or, or something. And, uh, then just the, literally that was sons of replies then to that tweet of just screenshots of Twitter, uh, saying, Oh, Nope, [00:36:00] this doesn’t, uh, violate our terms. [00:36:02] Yeah. Oh, all those. Yeah. Um, the, the community standards on Twitter really. Really want women to kill themselves, but not white men. [00:36:16]Brett: [00:36:16] So you’re pretty well known, uh, maybe not famous for, but known for, um, uh, researching some odd things, uh, going down rabbit holes as they say. Uh, so I’m curious, what is right now, the weirdest thing in your browser history without getting, you know, weird, weird. [00:36:39] Alex: [00:36:39] The, [00:36:40] Brett: [00:36:40] the, let me see, let me phrase it as what’s the most odd ball thing in your browser history. [00:36:47] Alex: [00:36:47] I don’t even know. I mean, [00:36:49]Brett: [00:36:49] Define odd ball. [00:36:51] Alex: [00:36:51] Yeah. Like that’s the thing is like, even if I had some, like, Intro. If I had some like spicy porn up here, it wouldn’t be, [00:37:00] it would be like, look at these queer people, kiss it. Like it would be boring. Uh, let me, let me pull up my history here. Um, Oh. Oh. Why did I hit command a no, no, no, it’s not. [00:37:15] It’s it’s not bad. I just got, I’ve been changing key bindings around and messed it up. That would be, I mean, there is always, typically actually some thing in my. Browser, uh, like I’ve tried to really lock Firefox down, but there’s typically something really like some crazy conspiracy theory from Q Anon or the alts. [00:37:41] Right. Um, I guess eight Chan yeah. Eight Chan is up here. Okay. So I guess that’s the, the, the weirdest, just one, I think that is more, uh, in line with like, My, I won’t say my values, but, [00:38:00] um, the things that won’t make people sad are the current meta statistics of Pokemon goes, uh, go battle league teams and the. [00:38:12] Basically like an analysis of the current numbers of each Pokemon and how to either win or ch it’s a C it’s so embarrassing. It doesn’t make sense. Basically. Video game crap. It’s what’s up here. I re uh, D during the pandemic. I mean, I. Really didn’t want to like start a bunch of new ones, hobbies, because I didn’t want to make myself pandemic busy as, uh, Mike Hurley says, so I’m like, alright, I’ll just do a deep dive on the one thing that I can’t turn into a job, which is playing video games. [00:38:59] You [00:39:00] absolutely can turn into a job, but playing this specific video game, you cannot. So I’ve just. I’ve been kind of obsessing over that. Yeah. What’s the weirdest thing in your browser history right now. [00:39:10] Brett: [00:39:10] Oh, geez. Let’s see. I honestly, I should have been prepared for that to be turned around on me, but somehow I was not. Let’s see history. What’s weird. Roller Derby COVID protocols. [00:39:26] Alex: [00:39:26] Oh, that’s not weird at all. That’s soup. Oh gosh. Yeah. Oh, man, that made me sad, but, well, you know what I mean? That’s [00:39:37] Brett: [00:39:37] you know, do you know about this? Um, I think it’s Texas. Uh, there was a roller Derby league that had a couple of, uh, trauma workers and, uh, health professionals on it. [00:39:52] Alex: [00:39:52] Oh, [00:39:52] Brett: [00:39:52] the li no, it was it’s all good. The league came up with a plan. Uh, Wired’s article on it is [00:40:00] titled women’s roller Derby has a plan for COVID and it kicks ass, and they came up with this, like, I remember nine to 12.9 tiered system of like, this is what we can do when these criteria are met. [00:40:14] And it’s so like clear and unambiguous and it’s flexible so that if this, we go back to this tier and, uh, yeah, it is such a professionally through plan that, uh, people from all over the country are contacting them and implementing it. Um, yeah, I’ll add that way. It’ll be in the show notes from the overtired that will have gone up a week ago already, but. [00:40:42] Um, the, yeah, that was, that was what, the weirdest thing in my browser history today. [00:40:48]Alex: [00:40:48] and it is now in my browser history. And I’m stoked to read this later. [00:40:53] Brett: [00:40:53] It’s cool. Uh, vice did a piece on it too, if you, uh, if you’re on the vice YouTubes at all. all right. [00:41:00] Okay. So let’s, let’s switch here and do top three picks because yours I’m absolutely certain are going to be. If not fascinating, at least interesting. [00:41:13] Alex: [00:41:13] they’re, they’re definitely not fascinating and fiction. In fact, I had to go and make sure that I didn’t copy. The, uh, your past few guests, especially Merlin with descript, which I’m just going to say, if you’re an audio person at all, uh, or a video person, if you work in any type of nonfiction production, uh, you want to try out D D script. [00:41:40] Uh, but my first pick is my favorite book. I’ve read this year and is already probably one of. The best books I have ever read in my life. Like I’ve already, I’ve read it three times this year. Um, it’s called wife. Why fish don’t exist by [00:42:00] Lulu Miller? And I don’t really want to say a lot of bout it, except that it is a book about life that will make you cry. [00:42:13] And it. It’s by a woman who is the co creator of an invisible Invisibilia, which is a one of my favorite podcasts. And it’s a science podcast. So this. Book is kind of like that podcast encapsulated, which is a researching something very scientific and then unraveling it to the point where you try to figure out like the nature of the universe and yourself. [00:42:50] But it’s also very short and sweet and funny. And I don’t want to say anything more. [00:42:56] Brett: [00:42:56] I could go for short, sweet and funny. I just [00:43:00] started black, black leper red Wolf by Marlon James. [00:43:04]Alex: [00:43:04] Ooh, what’s that? [00:43:06] Brett: [00:43:06] it was recommended to me as a queer as fuck. I’m going to [00:43:11] Alex: [00:43:11] I don’t know. I don’t know if we’re allowed to swear. I’ve been good. I was very good. [00:43:15] Brett: [00:43:15] I know. So I basically, I have this, this new, new, if a, if a guest swears more than twice, I just leave it. And Mark, the episode is explicit, but if we get through without swearing, then I can, uh, I can Mark it as not explicit. And I don’t know what effect I haven’t done the research to know if that actually affects any of my listeners or not. [00:43:39] But, um, Anyway, the book was recommended to me as being a very queer book that I might enjoy. And I’m still, I’m still figuring out what it’s about. Uh it’s. I seem to be, it’s being told from the first person of [00:44:00] a black man in some kind of, yeah, I, I don’t, I don’t want to say too much about it until I figure out what is going on here. [00:44:09] Um, So I’ll just, I’ll put a link to it and anyone wants to check it out. Can I have a feeling when I have a Mary Jo Klinker on the show, again, this will be a topic of discussion. So stay tuned for that. [00:44:24]Alex: [00:44:24] Oh, that makes me so excited. Yeah. [00:44:27]Brett: [00:44:27] Okay. All right. So what’s your second pick then? [00:44:31]Alex: [00:44:31] Virtual reality. Uh, just in general, when. Lockdown started in March. I immediately ordered an Oculus, uh, not an Oculus rift in Oculus quest, which is the VR headset, unfortunately made, acquired, and now made by Facebook. Um, but it has [00:45:00] like VR to me has gotten to a point where we’re really at like, okay, This is soon going to change the worlds. [00:45:09] I haven’t felt this excited about something since the rumors of an iPhone and the, like the idea of having a computer in your pocket, like the eye. So I ordered my VR headset in, in March, I said, but it didn’t get it here until, um, I put it on my calendar too. Uh, wait. Nope. Yup. Uh, July 8th, I marked it down because it was such a monumentous day where I’m like, Holy heck, uh, is going to change my life. [00:45:45] Yeah, it has like, I’ve used it virtually, virtually every day since then. Um, barely to play games, actually, a lot of times I am just going into. Uh, Google earth, they have a great [00:46:00] VR app, um, and just like walking around the rain forest and like looking at beaches. Um, and I’ve been really, I mean, I could list. [00:46:14] A million things, but like, um, I’ve been reading a lot. Jared, Jared Lanmyer, Jerry Lee. I heard J Jared, the virtual reality guy, highly linear, um, his, his stuff. And I think I’ve always liked the idea of VR in abstract, um, and especially, uh, AR um, augmented reality, but. Being able to use it every single day is like all it’s it’s mindblowing. [00:46:48] Like, I, I am still one of those people who rarely leave my apartment, um, just for convenience and like health [00:47:00] reasons. And this is the only, like I put on a stupid hat basically. And my. Uh, my, my brain is transformed. Like not just not it’s, it’s so hard to articulate because it really is unlike any, anything I’ve experienced or whenever I have someone try it, they’re like, what the heck was that? [00:47:29] Even if they have tried a VR headset in the past, like five years, um, Being like, we’re really close to a place where like, yeah, offices are just going to be, uh, in our goggles or glasses. Have you ever tried VR? [00:47:48]Brett: [00:47:48] No. Uh, my, my impression of VR, anytime someone talks about it, you ever see lawnmower, man. [00:47:56]Alex: [00:47:56] Wait. Oh, yes, yes, yes. [00:48:00] Yes. [00:48:00] Brett: [00:48:00] what I think of. And it’s, it’s not good looking. Um, so I, you’re making me very curious to find out what modern VR actually looks like. [00:48:11] Alex: [00:48:11] That’s the issue too is like the best. It had set in my opinion right now is owned by Facebook, which is de yucky. And I am sure that, uh, eventually Apple, I mean, that’s my, you know, new beat now wish, wish to all was still still around to cover the potential AR glasses that are going to be coming up. But, um, I mean the ability. [00:48:43] For people to spend, just not, I say just as if it’s nothing like $400 is just a while old amount of money, but it’s also kind of a wild amount of money when you’re like, Oh, $400 and then I can. Be almost [00:49:00] anywhere every day. And I mean, that’s, I don’t know. People are like, what game console are you getting? [00:49:06] I’m like, I’m just, I’m done with that. Let me walk around on my virtual beach. [00:49:13]Brett: [00:49:13] Yeah, I could see that. Um, when the pandemic’s over, I’ll come use yours. No, I’ll buy my own. Can, can you like meet people in virtual reality? Can you like hang out? [00:49:25] Alex: [00:49:25] No. I mean, yes you can, but it’s, it’s not at a place where everybody can afford it or that everybody can [00:49:33] Brett: [00:49:33] I know, but if I. [00:49:35] Alex: [00:49:35] Facebook. [00:49:35] Brett: [00:49:35] If I had an Oculus quest and you had an Oculus quest, could we have a virtual coffee? [00:49:42] Alex: [00:49:42] yeah, but we wouldn’t we’d have to use like, um, What app could we use? Unfortunately, we couldn’t like see each other. We could see each other’s avatars. Um, we’ll well, no, but we’re, we’re close to being like, yeah, this is a [00:50:00] hologram of another, another person, which is what I’m, I’m stoked for. So, I mean, like having a coffee in, in VR right now is. [00:50:09] Kind of the same as having one over zoom. Uh, and so I’m, I’m excited for like, you know, we’re gonna like the haptics of when hugs are like legal. Again, it, if they never are obese, I’m all for putting on a suit and you know, our, uh, our armor elbow bumping with people virtually, it’s going to be cool. [00:50:34] Brett: [00:50:34] Yeah. Um, there was, uh, an Amazon show, uh, and I cannot remember the name of D download. No, [00:50:42] Alex: [00:50:42] Oh, I think upload [00:50:44] Brett: [00:50:44] maybe it was just called upload. It was good, but they had these, uh, Like conjugal visit suits, uh, like the, [00:50:52] Alex: [00:50:52] yeah. [00:50:53] Brett: [00:50:53] premise was when you die, you get uploaded into this kind of, uh, uh, virtual [00:51:00] reality and you continue to exist as an avatar, uh, who can then communicate back with living people. [00:51:08] And, uh, you could get, you could rent a suit, uh, and I have a contract we’ll visit with your, your dad dead, [00:51:16]Alex: [00:51:16] yeah. It’s. Yup. Uh, ghost boning. It was very, it, it was, it was super interesting. Uh, I actually really, um, uh, this is my 2.5 pick is, is the show upload on an Amazon? It’s definitely not for everybody, but, uh, one thing it does illustrate really well, I think is. Uh, the pool, the dark places, we can go with wealth disparity when VR become like real fast, it’s gonna get into like, all right, how much can you pay to subscribe to this virtual world where you need [00:52:00] to work or play or, or whatever. [00:52:02] Um, and it, but it does it in a humorous way as well. So it’s not like full on black mirror. [00:52:07] Brett: [00:52:07] Yeah. Uh, I want to Gibson’s recent William Gibson’s recent novels was I have [00:52:14] Alex: [00:52:14] Oh, Oh, just yes. I mean, same. I’ve been reading a lot during, uh, the same pandemic is just weird still for me. Um, but during the pandemic, uh, I’ve been reading a lot and sometimes the dystopian. Fiction kind of gets jumbled up. Even if it is someone as good as William grip gets them. [00:52:37] Brett: [00:52:37] Yeah, for sure. All right, so we’re on 2.5. What’s three. [00:52:43]Alex: [00:52:43] the iOS app. [00:52:45] When did I? So this is, I don’t know when I found this, but the, I wish I remembered the name of the woman who [00:53:00] develops it. Um, I’ll definitely send it to you for notes, but it’s just an app where you can create a list of things. Um, for example, get a haircut, change, a razor change sheets, uh, by Pokemon go coins. [00:53:18] You know, examples that are, everybody can relate to. Um, And whenever you do a certain thing, you just select, I’m like, yep. I changed my sheets today or, yep. I got a haircut today. So now, um, you now, you know, the last time you did something, so I called my grandma six days ago, so I should probably am like, Oh, I should probably, uh, do that again. [00:53:46] And what I sort of like about this is it. It is a habit tracker [00:53:54]But I don’t know. It was, it’s still hard for me to [00:54:00] articulate why this has worked for me more than habit trackers have. And maybe it’s like the negative reinforcement of like, Oh, I haven’t changed my sheets in how many days, what now? Uh, but I just use this, um, with the series of, uh, iOS, uh, shortcuts to, you know, no Mark, like Mark off my regular stuff of like, I took this medication six hours ago. [00:54:30] So if I’m. It it’s it’s like, uh, Oh, here’s a good way to do it. It’s a good way of like tracking feelings almost like what is the, I do have like last manic episode. Like I have that in there as well. Like stuff you don’t want on your mind constantly, but stuff that it’s still in, like this liminal space that you can’t like GTD at, it is kind of always in your head. [00:54:58] Like, it is always in my head [00:55:00] of like, when did I. Go call my grandma. Well, when is the last time I changed the, that pillow case? It’s just been really, really helpful. Yeah. [00:55:11] Brett: [00:55:11] Yeah, I built a whole command line system around this premise. Uh, it [00:55:17] Alex: [00:55:17] Oh, of course you did. [00:55:18]Brett: [00:55:18] It was a little script app called doing, and it let me, while I was at my computer, uh, just write down what I was doing or what I had just done. And then it gave me a task paper formatted file that I could search and see if, and when I last did something, uh, and I designed it pretty much specifically for manic episodes, uh, when I would be. [00:55:44] Doing more things than I could possibly keep track of. and it would be suddenly 10 in the morning. And I wouldn’t know what, what I had spent the last eight hours on. And, uh, it w it [00:56:00] has proven very useful for me. And I can see exactly why an iOS app, like this would be a boon, especially to someone who does have. [00:56:12] Uh, vastly varying States of mind. [00:56:16] Alex: [00:56:16] Yeah, and for me, it’s super useful with the like audit automation stuff built in, but. If you just want like a very simple list, it’s incredibly accessible and easy to set up and I’m was super, super impressed by, uh, just, I don’t know, it’s an application with personality too. Like it’s not like skeuomorphic or anything, but I, I met, I miss apps having character, I guess. [00:56:49] So. Yeah, I like that about it too. [00:56:51] Brett: [00:56:51] Alright. Cool. Um, yeah, so we did it. We even with extra questions, we, we came in and around an hour, which [00:57:00] was always my goal. [00:57:02] Alex: [00:57:02] Nice. Nice. [00:57:03] Brett: [00:57:03] Well done. Um, we actually almost completely skipped talking about Dubai Friday and we should at least mention that that show is going strong with you and Merlin and. [00:57:14]Alex: [00:57:14] Yeah, you should, you should, uh, come, come on some time and. Come up with a weird challenge for us to do that will inevitably fail at, and then you can tell us the amazing script you created to do the challenge for us. Uh, and it’ll, it’ll be great. [00:57:31] Brett: [00:57:31] This is a serious invite. I’m totally down. [00:57:34] Alex: [00:57:34] We Oh, yeah, dude. But like, that’s kind of the whole premise of, of Dubai Friday is, uh, obviously to pick a challenge each week and that challenge could be, um, you know, drop butts or re, or like reorganized your, your, to do list to three D print something. [00:57:58] Um, but I mean, [00:58:00] really it’s an excuse just to. Talk to the people we like and the people who do and people who do interesting things that we kind of want to collect them and bring them into our, our friend circle, like, uh, our amazing friend, dr. Don Shaffer, uh, who hosts the food safety podcast. Like I dunno, I’ve just met so many. [00:58:23] Interesting people over the past four years and learned so much, and that’s very much thanks to Merlin and the, honestly the Apple and tech unity at, at large, it’s been awesome. [00:58:37] Brett: [00:58:37] Yeah, I, uh, I would be honored to join the ranks. I will, uh, I will start formulating a challenge for you. All right. Any other podcasts you want to link to? Or should we, uh, say two headed girl and do by Friday. [00:58:52]Alex: [00:58:52] You have two, two headed girl and a two by Friday. And, uh, keep an eye out [00:59:00] on re relay FM, I guess. [00:59:02]Brett: [00:59:02] awesome. Um, where can people find you? Should they wish to learn more or, and, or contact you? [00:59:10]Alex: [00:59:10] I’m on Twitter at Alex Cox, bill Cox, not the other way. Um, and not the other way people ask me all the time, especially now over the phone. Oh boy. Um, but. You can also go to Alex cox.me, which is just a, Oh wow. I don’t even know. No, just follow me on Twitter, twitter.com/ Alex Cox. It’s probably my tumbler. [00:59:36] Yep. It’s my tumbler. Oh boy. Oh. [00:59:40] Brett: [00:59:40] All right. Um, and, and like you said, the podcasts, uh, 200 girls on transistor.fm. [00:59:48] Alex: [00:59:48] Yes. Uh, I think, uh, yes. Yes, it is to girl.transistor.fm, but also on we’re on Twitter at two headed girl FM, uh, two spelled out [01:00:00] T w O M and. If you want to find Dubai Friday, it we’re also on Twitter at Dubai Friday, but it’s spelled D O B Y Friday. I’m not the many other ways you could spell, do and buy. [01:00:15]Brett: [01:00:15] Awesome. Alright, well, thanks for, uh, thanks for coming on today. Thanks for being open about bipolar and for, uh, and for being just a terribly interesting person. [01:00:24] Alex: [01:00:24] No, no, thank you. [01:00:27]Brett: [01:00:27] All right. Hope to talk to you again soon. [01:00:29]Alex: [01:00:29] Totally. Thank you so much. Uh, how can I send, Oh, wait, you’re doing the outro. Aren’t [01:00:36] Brett: [01:00:36] No, I actually, so the funny thing about the outros is. [01:00:41]Alex: [01:00:41] so that’s that’s I love the what, what have you, uh, what, what are you using for a soundboard? Just like a stream deck. Um, ma Oh man. I, Oh yeah. I saw that you got the, the big stream deck. Uh, yeah. [01:00:56]Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s what I [01:01:00] have. Uh, and it’s pretty much all your it’s just, it’s basically my, my Terp stra deck. It might as well be. Yeah, thank you for bunch. It makes, I mean, Anton veal, I don’t even think you for by computer basically. That’s usual. I am or no, or sorry. I am not, I don’t know why I said I am with such confidence because I don’t think I, no, I’m not, but also, I don’t know what, like valuable feedback I could provide except I broke it. [01:01:32]Oh yeah. Thank you. [01:01:35]Oh, yeah, totally. Cause I, yeah, I use a lot of drafts. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I am. Yeah. I’m really stoked to try this. Thank you. [01:01:44]Probably yeah. [01:01:47]whatever works. If you want me to give you a server to upload it, that’s fine. [01:01:51]Oh yeah. I’ll just, yeah. I’ll send you a Dropbox link to the, the file. I think I know shag about whatever it’s. [01:02:00] Called these days. Yeah. Yeah, I, I don’t ever have the links expire because I’m not because I am, huh. I actually do have to head out now, but thank you so much again, uh, I have very slow internet, so it might not show up for about a half hour. [01:02:23] I’ll I’ll send you the, I know. Good. Perfect. Wonderful. All right. Have a nice night. And I hope that, uh, are you, are you doing doing all right, cook. Cool. I hope you guys are hanging in there and let’s, let’s talk soon and yeah, definitely. We want to have you on Dubai Friday. See you, man. Bye.