Over the last few years, Microsoft has been working overtime to become a carrier-grade hyperscaler for the industry. For this episode, I talk with Microsoft Chief Technology Officer for the Worldwide Telecommunications Industry Rick Lievano about the recent general availability of Azure Operator Nexus, its work with AT&T, and Microsoft’s $13 billion investment in OpenAI. Listen now to hear:Where telcos are today with their move to the public cloud [02:33];How Azure Operator Nexus is poised to change the game [04:02];The latest on Microsoft’s network cloudification work with AT&T [7:17]; andThe company’s big bet on GenAI and how it’s paying off for telco [12:57]. Links and ResourcesCheck out this awesome story in Fast Company, Microsoft’s Satya Nadella is winning Big Tech’s AI war. Here’s how.Learn more about Azure Operator Nexus and read the announcement about it becoming generally available this summer. Listen to Rick’s first time as guest on the Telco in 20 podcast, episode 5, The BFCs: Putting Microsoft Azure to the test for telcosReady to hear more great stuff about GenAI and telco’s future with the public cloud? Catch my keynote at MVNO Nation Live, running October 23 - 25 in Valencia, Spain. Learn about the ninja move of pickleball, the Erne, and learn how to do it yourself!You can find the transcript for this episode here. Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on X @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Rick LievanoRick Lievano is the Worldwide CTO for the Microsoft Telecommunications industry. He works with customers and partners in developing telecommunications industry solutions and reference architectures to address the rapidly changing needs of service providers across the globe. He is an enthusiastic participant and speaker in many industry communities, an advocate of industry frameworks and open standards, and holds TM Forum Open Digital Architecture and Business Development Manager Career Certifications. At TM Forum, he is a member of the Collaboration Sub-Committee, overseeing the effective creation and adoption of pragmatic best practices and standards to deliver value to the membership. Rick currently leads initiatives to help operators achieve more by infusing artificial intelligence across their business. Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

Nokia revealed a significant rebrand at Mobile World Congress 2023, signally a shift in the company’s focus to enterprise and B2B, which it sees as the future of telecom. For this episode, I talk with Nokia Vice President and Chief Technology Officer for Europe Azfar Aslam about Nokia’s new direction, the challenge of refactoring legacy products, and what’s in store as the hyperscalers work to become carrier-grade cloud providers. Listen now to hear about:The balance of hardware and software in Nokia’s portfolio [04:34];How the company is adapting products for a public-cloud-driven future [06:44];How it weighs the benefits of refactoring for the public cloud against maintaining a common software base [10:30]; andAzfar’s thoughts on network workloads running in public clouds [12:51].Links and ResourcesCheck out Nokia’s technology vision for 2030. It talks about the network of the future (a network of networks!) and how open APIs and the monetization of those APIs will be key. Hmm, sound familiar? 🧐Read about Nokia’s super cool rebrand in The Verge.What is cloud native, and how can you be sure that vendors are designing their applications correctly? Watch my hilarious Top 5 List with TelecomTV and Ray LeMaistre where I explain this misused term.Check out Totogi’s Whoosh! offering that can help CSPs pull developers from Twilio’s ecosystem and into an operator’s. You’ll need this for those network APIs.Check out Nokia’s press release about its work on DISH’s 5G standalone core networkLearn about what DISH is doing with the public cloud and then check out my conversation with DISH Wireless EVP and Chief Network Officer Marc Rouanne.You can find the transcript for this episode here.Did we talk about dinosaurs in this episode? WE DID! RAR! 🦖 Sometimes dinosaurs can be cool, like when they’re movie stars and scare common folks. Watch the official trailer from Jurassic Park 2, which was filmed on Asfar’s favorite Hawaiian island, Kuwai.Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on X @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Azfar AslamAzfar is passionate about driving customer success and has shaped technology and business strategies for over 60 Communications Service Providers and Large Enterprises globally. His experience spans new technology evaluations and product introductions, from portfolio and investment optimizations to E2E evolution of communications networks and AI-enabled automation. Azfar has also been deeply involved in corporate strategies, including M&A, new market entry, and establishing new lines of business. His current focus includes helping customers chart their journey toward new value creation in industry 4.0 in the high-performance critical networks era.Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

The telecom industry agrees that the future of 5G and enterprise telco lies in monetizing network APIs. But communications platform-as-a-service (CPaaS) company Twilio has been eating telco’s lunch by not only capturing messaging revenue, but also dominating enterprise IT departments. For this episode, I’m sharing my recent TelecomTV talk about how telcos can beat Twilio and take back what’s theirs. I share a three-step plan for regaining a strategic position within enterprise IT departments, and give a sneak peek at a new Totogi CPaaS product that can help. Click play to hear: What’s happened to telcos’ Application-to-Person (A2P) APIs market share over the last decade [03:51];The big difference Twilio-compatible APIs could make [05:35];How telcos can use owner economics to undercut Twilio pricing [06:38];How Totogi’s latest product, Whoosh!, can help [07:45]; andWhy telcos need to start now [09:26].Links and ResourcesCheck out the video version of my talk, released as part of TelecomTV’s Cloud Native Telco Summit. You know how much I rock a video talk!Learn more about the awesome power of Whoosh!Twilio has been running circles around telco. Read about why it happened in my monster blog, Telco execs: Are you jealous of Twilio?Read about the activist fight over at Twilio in The Information (subscription) and Reuters.Check out Twilio’s Investor Day 2022 deck - tons of great information in this resource.Come meet the Totogi team at TM Forum’s DTW - Ignite in Copenhagen on September 19 - 21. Grab a delicious coffee at the Totogi Supercharged Cafe (plus, we’re donating to Unconnected.org for every cup served), and stop by our stand for a Whoosh! demo.We’re partying in Copenhagen! Don’t miss our launch party on September 19 – DM me on X or LinkedIn for details and an invite.Why all of the sudden interest in Twilio? Learn more about TelcoDR’s purchase of CPaaS company, Kandy.View the transcript for this episode.Did you catch my Mickey Mouse hands at the end of the video? It’s so I can slap Twilio around on behalf of telco. I’m thinking of taking the hands to Copenhagen and wearing them at the conference. Want a pair of your own? Buy them hereWanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20Follow DR on X @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

The Communications Platform as a Service (CPaaS) market is expected to hit $60 billion by 2030. Telcos deserve a big piece of this revenue—after all, their networks power CPaaS. But up until now, they’ve lost customers and revenue to companies like Twilio that make it easy for developers to add capabilities to products without having to navigate complicated telco organizations. But the landscape is shifting. With the cloud native capabilities of 5G and initiatives like the GSMA’s Open Gateway, there are signs that telcos can take back the CPaaS reins. For this episode, I talk with Yesmean Luk, principle consultant and practice lead at STL Partners, about the future of CPaaS and what telcos need to do to recapture lost enterprise revenue.  Listen now to hear:Why CPaaS is a huge opportunity for telco [04:32];What needs to happen to make Open Gateway work [07:13];Why enterprise developers will be key to recapturing lost revenue [14:49]How having a software mindset can help [16:09].Listen now by clicking play above or subscribe through your favorite podcast platform—see the links in the right column above. Links and ResourcesDon’t miss my September 5 TelecomTV talk about why now is the time for telcos to take on Twilio. It includes a sneak peek at an awesome new Totogi CPaaS product.The Totogi team will also be demonstrating our CPaaS offering and our game-changing Charging-as-a-Service at TM Forum’s DTW - Ignite in Copenhagen from September 19 - 21. (And of course we’ll be throwing an awesome party. DM me on X or LinkedIn for details and an invite!)Yesmean and I met when we took part in a CPaaS Acceleration Alliance panel. Check out its recent State of CPaaS report.Recent headlines confirm that a lot is happening in the CPaaS space:March 8, 2023: Skyvera Acquired American Virtual Cloud Technology AssetsJuly 17, 2023: Proximus Group acquired a nearly 60% stake in Route MobileJuly 21, 2022: Ericsson completes its $6.2B acquisition of VonageRead my recent blog, Telco execs: Are you jealous of Twilio?You can find the transcript for this episode here.Yesmean and I both think telcos are ready for a CPaaS comeback. Check out this highlight reel from one of the greatest comeback stories in sports history, when the New England Patriots rallied from being down 28 points to beating the Atlanta Falcons 34-28 in Super Bowl LI.When you’re done, take a look at this video of LL COOL J’s Mama Said Knock You Out, aka “Don’t call it a comeback!”Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on X @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Yesmean LukYesmean is a principal consultant at STL Partners and leads the Private Networks practice. She has led major strategic growth projects with both operators and technology companies globally. Her focus has been on helping clients figure out how to drive growth in a B2B2X ecosystem, including in domains such as private networks, network slicing, edge computing and network APIs. She has also authored several thought-leadership reports across these areas and is a regular speaker at renowned industry events. Before joining STL, she held various consulting roles at Deloitte and IBM.Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

During this year’s Mobile World Congress, the GSMA announced a game-changing initiative called Open Gateway. It aims to revolutionize how operators collaborate with developers and each other, with the goal of opening up new revenue streams beyond traditional rate plans through the use of network APIs. For this episode, I sat down to talk with GSMA Director General Mats Granryd about the Open Gateway initiative and how network APIs may be the future of enterprise telco. Click play to hear our conversation about: How opening networks will help telcos monetize 5G capabilities [03:29];Why telcos are excited about Open Gateway and jumping on board [05:42];The shift that’s needed to make telcos easier for developers to work with [08:59];Strategies to attract enterprise IT developers to use Open Gateway APIs [13:55]; andHow 5G can enable new technical monetization models [16:23].Links and ResourcesI thought my conversation with Mats was so important that I flew across the Atlantic to meet with him in person. We met at The Shard in the center of London and recorded our interview, which you can watch here. Check out that view!Learn more about the GSMA’s Open Gateway initiative.Surely you heard the news that TelcoDR bought Kandy, a CPaaS company, out of bankruptcy in March of this year.Be sure to catch the announcement of a new Totogi’s CPaaS product that will help telcos take on Twilio. I’ll be sharing a video about it on September 5 as part of TelecomTV’s Cloud Native Telco Summit. Don’t miss it—it’s MUST-SEE TV!Come meet with the Totogi team at TM Forum’s DTW - Ignite in Copenhagen on September 19 - 21 so we can give you a demo and snag an invite to the launch party. DM me on X or LinkedIn for details and an invite.Twilio has been running circles around telco, taking the enterprise IT developers and owning the platform. Read this monster blog I wrote about why it happened in Telco execs: Are you jealous of Twilio?View the transcript for this episode.I caught a few Wimbledon matches while I was in the UK. Check out this montage of 2023 highlights.Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on X @TelcoIn20Follow DR on X @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Mats GranrydMats Granryd is Director General of the GSMA and a member of its Board. He leads the GSMA in supporting its global membership across three broad pillars: Connectivity for Good, Industry Services and Solutions, and Outreach. Under Mats’ leadership, the GSMA has been instrumental in the advent of the 5G Era, advocating for timely and affordable spectrum access, supporting the global rollout of 5G and mobile IoT networks, creating an eSIM solution and providing the world’s largest platform to convene the mobile ecosystem and industry verticals at the MWC and M360 series of events.Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

Cloud migration is on every telco's roadmap these days, but a lot of leaders worry about runaway costs. Today’s guest, Rahul Subramaniam, is the founder and CEO of CloudFix, a cool SaaS platform that automatically optimizes AWS spend. It identifies savings, and after you approve them, implements them automatically without manual effort from your team. Listen now to hear:How CloudFix works and what makes it fast and secure [05:15];The profile of the AWS customer that can benefit the most [07:41];Real-world savings success stories [08:25];Why AWS wants to help customers save money [13:05]; andThe special discount telcos can get on CloudFix from TelcoDR [15:55].Listen now by clicking play above or subscribe through your favorite podcast platform—see the links in the right column above. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Links and ResourcesRead about TelcoDR’s exclusive partnership agreement with CloudFix that can save telcos moneyListen to Rahul talk more about CloudFix on his AWS Made Easy podcast with co-host Stephen Barr, then check out the AWS Made Easy episode with Jeff Barr, chief evangelist for AWSVisit the CloudFix websiteRead how organizations can reduce compute, networking, and storage costs by up to 66% by migrating workloads to AWS in a report from Enterprise Strategy GroupTo learn more about controlling cloud costs, check out episode 4 of Telco in 20 with cloud economist and consultant Corey Quinn, who talked about how his business, the Duckbill Group, can help you control cloud costs, and episode 39 with Michael Kearns from Virtasant, the maker of business software that helps optimize cloud spend.Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on Twitter @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Rahul SubramaniamRahul is Founder and CEO of CloudFix, and a board member of the FinOps Foundation. Throughout his career, he has successfully migrated 140+ enterprise software products to AWS and created revolutionary products that transform how users build, manage, and optimize in AWS. Rahul is also the founder and co-host of AWS Insiders, an industry podcast offering a no-holds-barred look at the state and future of AWS and cloud computing.Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

Almost every telco I talk to is doing some kind of work with Amazon Web Services (AWS). It has the biggest market share of all of the hyperscalers, operates tons of data centers across the globe, and keeps churning out powerful software and custom-built chips that are perfect for operators.For this episode, Chivas Nambiar, director of worldwide solution architecture, AWS for telecom, joins me to talk about how AWS is working with our industry, how cloud software is changing the landscape, and the future of telco in an AI-driven world. Click play to hear our conversation about: What telcos are looking for when they come to AWS [03:08];What holds them back when adopting the public cloud [05:37];How the ability to easily run experiments with the cloud is moving the ball forward [08:38];How SaaS solutions like Totogi are unleashing value and speed [10:49]; andHow GenAI will affect telcos business model and future [15:55]Listen now by clicking play above or subscribe through your favorite podcast platform—see the links in the right column above. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Links and ResourcesLearn more about AWS for Telecom.Check out Chivas’ recent conversation with RCR Wireless about what it means to be a tech-co and why that's important for operators.Get a demo of Totogi’s cloud-native, SaaS solutions for telco.I first met Chivas outside of my awesome talk at MWC 2022 —The Public Cloud is NOW—which opened with an epic performance by a Taiko drummer. Watch it on demand and learn more about Taiko drums.I’m so impressed that Chivas is learning to swim. Check out this scene from Ice Age where Sid the sloth helps saber-toothed tiger Diego overcome his fear of water.Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on Twitter @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Chivas NambiarChivas Nambiar is the director of worldwide solutions architecture for the global telecom business unit at Amazon Web Services (AWS), leading a worldwide technical team focused on enabling communication service providers, network equipment providers, and independent software vendors to transform their business by moving to the cloud. Prior to joining AWS in 2020, Chivas spent 17 years in the telecom industry at Verizon Communications Inc. Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

Hey, look at that—I’m a guest on a podcast! I recently joined host Robert Curran and principal analyst John Abraham on the Appledore Research Podcast, and now I’m bringing that episode to you here. We talk about everything from the state of charging in telecom to CLOUD CITY’s rockstar takeover of Ericsson’s space at MWC21—a takeover that included an ACTUAL rock star. Click play to hear our conversation about: How and when I became a public cloud convert [04:54];The birth of Totogi and what it’s doing today [09:13];The mission behind the $1 billion Telco Transformation Fund [13:37];Why Totogi decided to go all in with AWS [22:19];And one of my favorite topics—how to drive the culture change you need to make your digital transformation a reality [28:30].Listen now by clicking play above or subscribe through your favorite podcast platform—see the links in the right column above. You can find the transcript for this episode here. [LINK]Links and ResourcesLearn more about Appledore Research and check out the Appledore Research Podcast.Find out more about Totogi’s cloud-native, SaaS solutions and get in touch to set up a demo.Check out my Siebel vs Salesforce talk from TelecomTV’s 2021 DSP Leaders World Forum.We touched briefly on Open Gateway and network exposure function APIs. I wrote two recent blogs about these topics; Is Open Gateway the answer to telco’s Twilio woes? and How to save 50-90% on compute with spot instances. Give them a read!I love talking about change management, and so does my buddy, transformation guru Jim Abolt. He talked about this topic on the very first episode of Telco in 20, and then came back for episode 7 to share even more insights.My favorite Bon Jovi song of all time is Living on a Prayer, which he sang in CLOUD CITY. He doesn’t do it all the time because he told me once that the octave ranges are too tough on his vocal cords, but he did a sweet acoustic version for us that night and it was EPIC. What a magical experience!Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on Twitter @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s bioAbout Appledore ResearchAppledore Research is a global research and consulting firm specializing in the telecommunication and software market. It provides market share, forecast, business models, industry trend reports, and custom research in the areas of network automation, 5G, Edge compute, SD-WAN, SDN, AI, and analytics, in the telecommunication and media market segments. Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson 

In 2020, award-winning British MVNO giffgaff decided to go all-in on the public cloud with AWS. The bold move sped its software release process by 1000x, allowing it to focus on what matters: its members. Now the company is an all-star player in customer service and cloud innovation. In this episode, giffgaff’s Chief Operating and Technology Officer Steve McDonald shares the inside story about how the courageous move happened, the challenges giffgaff faced along the way, and lessons learned that other telcos should know. Click play to hear our conversation about: How technical debt was strangling the business [02:20];How long it took to see release success and code improving [07:37];What prompted giffgaff to speed its move to AWS [09:18];What it did reel in cloud costs [12:17]; andWhat Steve would do differently if he did it all over again [15:35].Listen now by clicking play above or subscribe through your favorite podcast platform—see the links in the right column above. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Links and ResourcesLearn more about giffgaff.Watch my talk from MWC23’s MVNO Summit, SUPERCHARGE your MVNO with personalization. I feature giffgaff’s journey to the public cloud prominently.Keep up with the company’s IT evolution on its tech blog.Read the 2020 announcement about giffgaff’s plan to go all-in on the public cloud with AWS.Read how pundits said the move was a bad idea. Boy, were they wrong!Get blown away by the performance of Yunchan Lim, the 2022 Cliburn gold medalist, audience award winner, and winner of the award for best performance of a new workSteve McDonald loves Chopin. You know which piano piece I can’t resist? Linus and Lucy by Vince Guaraldi, better known as The Peanuts Song. Which character are you in this clip? I’ve always identified with the twin dancing near Pigpen.Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on Twitter @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Steve McDonaldSteve McDonald is Chief Operating and Technology Officer at giffgaff. Having joined the company in 2017, he is driving significant change and innovation throughout the company. In 2020, he led the network’s milestone move as the first MVNO in Europe to move to Amazon Web Services. He is a motivational and inspirational leader, known for building high performing, agile teams. He uses technology to meet business ambitions by engaging teams across all verticals to apply cutting edge software solutions. Before giffgaff, Steve spearheaded the software development at major brands including Tesco, Sage Pay, and Deutsche Bank.Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson

Telco stocks used to be Wall Street darlings, but in recent years have become stable dividend plays for grandpa investors. Can they return to their former glory? Today’s guest, Recurve Capital Founder Aaron Chan, has well-informed thoughts on what the industry needs to do to restore its shine. He’s at the forefront of investment strategies and market trends in telecom, and not surprisingly, he sees its future linked to the public cloud. Before you listen, it’s important to note that the thoughts Aaron shares in this podcast are his opinion, and do not constitute investment advice. Now, hit play to hear our conversation about: What needs to happen to bring telco stocks back into the spotlight [04:02];The opportunity the metaverse presents for the industry [06:28]; How the public cloud and hyperscalers can help telcos get back in the game [11:21];How Starlink changes the equation for the rural broadband market [15:37].Listen now by clicking play above or subscribe through your favorite podcast platform—see the links in the right column above. You can find the transcript for this episode here.Links and ResourcesLearn more about Recurve Capital.Hear more from Aaron on Greg Bryan’s TeleGeography Explains the Internet podcast.Want to read a book about creating outsized shareholder returns by taking calculated risks? Then pick up The Outsiders, by William Thorndike, which focuses on eight unconventional CEOs like John Malone of Liberty Media. He focused on generating cash flow, using leverage to create value, and investing in businesses with strong competitive advantages.I’m running a vertical SaaS enterprise software company called Totogi. In a nutshell, we’re trying to run this thing using the Rule of 40. Software is soooooo much easier than telco; maybe after reading about Rule of 40 some telco execs will want to join me?Aaron compared Elon Musk’s Starlink to The Avengers’ Thanos. Check out this video clip of Thanos snapping his fingers to destroy half the universe, so the other half could survive.Wanna talk public cloud? Telco execs, set up a meeting with our team to learn how to tap the immense business value it can bring.Follow DRHave an idea for a Telco in 20 podcast guest or topic? Send it in!Want to sponsor a podcast? Let us knowFollow Telco in 20 on Twitter @TelcoIn20Follow DR on Twitter @TelcoDRThe Telco in 20 podcast won a 2022 Platinum MarComm Award, a 2022 Gold Hermes Award, and was recognized as a Forrester Top 100 Channel Podcast and Feedspot Top 10 Telecom Podcast.  If you enjoy the podcast, would you leave us a short review? It takes you seconds to do in your app and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. And I love reading your feedback and reviews!This week’s guestAbout Aaron ChanAaron Chan is the Founder and Managing Partner of Recurve Capital. He has 20 years of long/short investing experience. Prior to founding Recurve Capital, he spent more than six years at MIG Capital, a long/short equity hedge fund. Before MIG he was a Sector Manager at Facet Capital Management, where he oversaw investments in Media and Telecom sectors. From 2011 to 2013, he was a Portfolio Manager at QM Capital, and began his career at Criterion Capital Management, a long/short equity fund focused on Technology, Media and Telecom sectors. He earned his B.S. in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford University in 2004.Podcast CreditsExecutive Producer and Host: Danielle Royston, TelcoDRSenior Producer: Lindsay Grubb, TillCo MediaEditor/Marketing: Alisa Jenkins, Springboard MarketingEditing: Andrew CondellAssociate Producer: Kriselda DionisioMusic: Dyami Wilson