The DCo Podcast

AI is shifting from chat interfaces to agents that act, earn, and participate in real economic activity. Mike Hanono, CEO of Talus Network, explains how this agentic economy takes shape and why it needs crypto rails. We explore idol.fun as the first live example of agents competing and generating value. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Eric Saraniecki has spent the past decade building the infrastructure that large financial institutions need to participate in crypto. As the Co-Founder and Head of Product at Digital Asset and a core builder behind Canton Network, Eric has a perspective that few operators in this industry share. He works directly with banks, asset managers, and market operators on the problems that define institutional adoption. This conversation outlines what those institutions actually require and why most blockchain systems were not designed for their needs. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

The conversation with Justin Waldron, co-founder of Zynga and now founder of Open Game Protocol, is a masterclass in how distribution models evolve in games and how Web3 could power the next one. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

AI agents are cheap to launch and impossible to trust. This episode is for people building and backing growth-stage crypto startups: how do you pick between thousands of on-chain “trading bots,” research assistants, and execution agents when most collapse in live conditions? Andrew Hill, CEO of Recall, lays out how Recall is trying to become crypto’s neutral trust layer for agents with live competitions, skill markets, and a ranking system you can actually underwrite.Key Moments00:00:00 - Introduction to Recall00:01:26 - Introduction to Andrew Hill and Recall00:01:45 - The Need for a Curation Layer for AI Models00:03:08 - Recall's Vision and Functioning00:05:26 - The Role of Competitions in Recall00:10:45 - The Future of Recall and AI Agents00:15:26 - Demand for Agentic Systems in Trading00:17:47 - The Evolution of AI Agents and Their Capabilities00:20:17 - The Growing Role of AI Agents in Crypto Trading00:26:51 - The Approach to Evaluating Subjective Skills00:28:29 - The Behavior of AI Models00:32:45 - The Role of Curators and Boosters in Recall00:36:11 - The Future of AI Evaluation and Alignment00:41:05 - The Role of Recall's Token in the AI Marketplace00:43:38 - Revenue Lines for Recall00:45:41 - The Role of Human Judges in Recall00:48:11 - Challenges for Agent Builders and Future Prospects00:49:08 - Potential Risks and Fears for Recall00:49:20 - The Battle of Decentralized vs Centralized Intelligence00:50:43 - The Future of AI Agents and Complex Tasks00:51:19 - The Threat of a Single, All-Powerful Agent00:52:13 - Recall's Achievements and What to Look Forward To This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

In this episode, Luca Netz shares how he took a failing NFT collection and turned it into one of the fastest-growing Web3 brands. We dive into his three-pillar model of ecosystem, attention, and revenue; and explore how Pudgy has sold over 1.5M toys through Walmart and Target, signed 45+ licensing deals, and built a business where culture and cash flow compound.In the episode, talk about: • How 80% of Pudgy’s revenue comes from licensing (45+ active deals) • Why arcade machines, toys, and games beat token drops in driving brand value • What “tokenized culture” actually means—and how it becomes a moat • The future of consumer crypto and Luca’s bet on Abstract’s Portal • Why the next big crypto success might not feel like crypto at all • How to fix crypto’s broken consumer journey • How to turn IP into retail + social currency without losing the core community. Chapters 0:00 – Intro 2:45 – Tokenising Culture, Memes & Influence 10:48 - The role of speculation 15:30 – The Three Pillars of Crypto Value: Ecosystem, Attention & Revenue 21:55 – The Pudgy Playbook: Community, Marketing & $50M Revenue 27:56 – What Luca knew when he bid $2.5 million on Pudgy IP 30:45 – What's Broken in Consumer Crypto 38:20 – Fixing Onboarding: Abstract Portal & The Future of Adoption 49:43 – Building for Gen Z & Gen Alpha 51:10 – Lessons from $PENGU Airdrop 54:09 – Is Token a Product? If you want to know more about Luca, we recently published a story on him here — https://www.thetokendispatch.com/p/the-luca-netz-story 👥 Guest: Luca Netz – CEO at Pudgy Penguins and Igloo Twitter: https://x.com/LucaNetz 🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh 📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe Follow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

We sit down with Androo and Andy from HypurrFi who are building at the intersection of on-chain credit and real-world usability.While most DeFi protocols treat borrowing as a one-time action, HypurrFi is making debt dynamic. Think refinancing, real-time spending, and routing capital across markets—without closing your position.We cover:— Why HypurrFi is focused on active debt management— How they're using USDXL (a synthetic dollar) as a programmable debt rail— Why their on-chain card integration changes how crypto holders can spend— How they’re thinking about traders, tax-advantaged holders, and capital efficiency— Why building on Hyperliquid gives them a unique edge, and what the challenges are— What “debt servicing” really means (and how it differs from basic lending)Timestamps —00:00: Introduction01:30 Backgrounds02:00: The Hyperliquid Ecosystem10:20: "Everyone Is Coming" Thesis20:00: HyperFi's Core Products & Vision32:00: The Card & The Philosophy of Debt46:00: Debt Servicing58:00: Competition👥 Guest:Androo Lloyd – Co-Founder at HypurrFiTwitter: https://x.com/androolloydAndy – Head of Growth at HypurrFiTwitter: https://x.com/andyhyfi🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo PodcastTwitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh📬 Stay Updated:Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribeFollow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Kinetiq co-founder and Hyperliquid contributor Omnia joins to unpack how Hyperliquid evolved from a DEX into a liquidity layer, what HIPs unlock, and why apps like Phantom and Kinetiq are treating it as default.Chapters —00:00 Podcast Opening & Disclaimer00:19 Kinetic's Launch & Market Context03:20 Hyperliquid's Core Thesis11:33 Hyperliquid Technical Architecture20:30 Understanding Hyperliquid Improvement Proposals (HIPs)36:10 Kinetiq's Staking Solutions & Platform Decentralisation46:06 Custody and Compliant Staking on Hyperliquid01:01:24 Builder Codes and On-Chain Asset Growth👥 Guest: Omnia – Co-founder at Kinetiq Twitter: https://x.com/0xOmnia🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribeFollow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

While everyone's been copying MicroStrategy's Bitcoin strategy, Sol Strategies took a different approach. CEO Leah Wald and CTO Max Kaplan join me to discuss why they're building actual infrastructure around Solana instead of just holding tokens. Sol Strategies is a publicly listed company (CSE: HODL) - formerly Cypherpunk Holdings - that transformed from one of the first Bitcoin treasury vehicles in North America into a comprehensive Solana infrastructure company.Sol Strategies now manages more than $500 million worth of SOL through its validators.🎯 Inside the Episode:• Why Sol Strategies chose Solana over Bitcoin & Ethereum• How they generate yield through staking & validators• Why native yield changes everything for crypto treasury companies• Why premium to NAV won't last forever (and what comes next)• The future of tokenised stocks and Solana DeFi• Why institutional investors are finally paying attention• Breakdown of Solana's performance vs. Hyperliquid• What will change with new Solana validator clients like Firedancer & AlpenglowTimestamps —0:00  Introduction & The Vision for Solana Investment5:40  Sol Strategies’ Journey and Investment Thesis11:58  Market Dynamics and Fundraising19:16 Why Sol Strategies is Bullish on Solana 27:10 Hyperliquid vs Solana30:33 How is Solana going to get better?34:39  The Future of On-Chain Assets & Revenue Diversification👥 Guest:Leah Wald – CEO at SOL Strategies Twitter: https://x.com/leahwaldMax Kaplan – CTO at SOL Strategies Twitter: https://x.com/maxekaplan🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo PodcastTwitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribeFollow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

What actually happens after you hit “swap”?In this episode, Saurabh is joined by Nikita Ovchinnik, founder of BarterSwap, to break down the mechanics of routing, MEV, solvers, and the invisible infrastructure that powers billions in DeFi volume.They explore:– Why AMMs leak value and how orderbooks are making a comeback– The role of solvers, searchers, and market makers in intent-based trading– How MEV is created, who captures it, and whether it can ever be eradicated– BarterSwap’s new product, Superposition — liquidity without TVL– Why most liquidity providers lose money, and what alternatives could work better– Expansion to Solana, L2s, and building infrastructure that scales across chainsBarterSwap has routed over $11B in trades. But its model isn’t extractive — it’s about giving users more control over execution, pricing, and outcomes. This episode will make you understand how DeFi works behind the scenes.00:18 Introduction to MEV and BarterSwap03:52 AMMs vs Order Books07:15 The Role of Liquidity Providers in DeFi13:31 Exploring MEV19:29 Barter's Approach to MEV27:50 Liquidity Management with Barter's Superposition31:14 Barter's Multi-Chain Strategy33:40 MEV - Good or Bad?33:51 How Barter is Tackling MEV34:30 How Superposition Allows Users to Provide Liquidity Without Deploying Assets into a Pool36:18 Future Plans to Integrate Solana?40:47 Barter's Business Model👉 Related reading:The Inevitability of MEV👥 Guest: Nikita Ovchinnik – Co-founder at BarterSwapTwitter: https://x.com/novaovchinnik🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo PodcastTwitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribeFollow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Most discussions about crypto UX revolve around decentralisation and ease of use. Mats Olson, co-founder and CTO of Dune, dives deeper into the overlooked importance of real-time data infrastructure. Mats explains why blockchains, built as write-optimised databases, make data retrieval challenging and how Dune is solving this critical problem.We explore:• Why Dune’s community-driven approach to analytics succeeded without incentives• The pragmatic trade-offs between decentralisation and usability• How their latest product, SIM, provides real-time cross-chain data• What separates crypto teams that thrive from those that struggle with data strategyChapters — 00:00 Introduction to Dune and Its Evolution02:56 User-Generated Content and Community Engagement05:59 Expanding Beyond Analytics08:58 The Role of Data in Crypto (Retail vs. Institutional Usage)11:58 Challenges of On-Chain Data and Infrastructure15:03 Acquisitions and Future Directions for Dune17:47 The Future of AI in Data Analytics21:12 Decentralisation vs. Pragmatism in Crypto Applications👥 Guest: Mats Olsen – Co-founder & CTO at Dune Twitter: https://x.com/mewwts 🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh 📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe Follow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co