The DCo Podcast

What actually happens after you hit “swap”?In this episode, Saurabh is joined by Nikita Ovchinnik, founder of BarterSwap, to break down the mechanics of routing, MEV, solvers, and the invisible infrastructure that powers billions in DeFi volume.They explore:– Why AMMs leak value and how orderbooks are making a comeback– The role of solvers, searchers, and market makers in intent-based trading– How MEV is created, who captures it, and whether it can ever be eradicated– BarterSwap’s new product, Superposition — liquidity without TVL– Why most liquidity providers lose money, and what alternatives could work better– Expansion to Solana, L2s, and building infrastructure that scales across chainsBarterSwap has routed over $11B in trades. But its model isn’t extractive — it’s about giving users more control over execution, pricing, and outcomes. This episode will make you understand how DeFi works behind the scenes.00:18 Introduction to MEV and BarterSwap03:52 AMMs vs Order Books07:15 The Role of Liquidity Providers in DeFi13:31 Exploring MEV19:29 Barter's Approach to MEV27:50 Liquidity Management with Barter's Superposition31:14 Barter's Multi-Chain Strategy33:40 MEV - Good or Bad?33:51 How Barter is Tackling MEV34:30 How Superposition Allows Users to Provide Liquidity Without Deploying Assets into a Pool36:18 Future Plans to Integrate Solana?40:47 Barter's Business Model👉 Related reading:The Inevitability of MEV👥 Guest: Nikita Ovchinnik – Co-founder at BarterSwapTwitter: https://x.com/novaovchinnik🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo PodcastTwitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribeFollow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Most discussions about crypto UX revolve around decentralisation and ease of use. Mats Olson, co-founder and CTO of Dune, dives deeper into the overlooked importance of real-time data infrastructure. Mats explains why blockchains, built as write-optimised databases, make data retrieval challenging and how Dune is solving this critical problem.We explore:• Why Dune’s community-driven approach to analytics succeeded without incentives• The pragmatic trade-offs between decentralisation and usability• How their latest product, SIM, provides real-time cross-chain data• What separates crypto teams that thrive from those that struggle with data strategyChapters — 00:00 Introduction to Dune and Its Evolution02:56 User-Generated Content and Community Engagement05:59 Expanding Beyond Analytics08:58 The Role of Data in Crypto (Retail vs. Institutional Usage)11:58 Challenges of On-Chain Data and Infrastructure15:03 Acquisitions and Future Directions for Dune17:47 The Future of AI in Data Analytics21:12 Decentralisation vs. Pragmatism in Crypto Applications👥 Guest: Mats Olsen – Co-founder & CTO at Dune Twitter: https://x.com/mewwts 🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh 📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe Follow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Forecasting and prediction tools are missing links in DeFi and Mode Network is trying to fill that gap.In this episode, James Ross (co-founder of Mode and Synthdata) talks about building smarter forecasting systems for DeFi. We dig into how Mode is using BitTensor’s decentralised AI network to power real-time risk analysis, how agents could drive most on-chain activity in the future, and why better decision-making tools are critical for DeFi’s next evolution.We also cover:• Why forecasting short-term volatility matters• How Synthdata's subnet incentivises accurate predictions• The behavioural challenge of trusting agents with capital• What still needs to be proven before these systems can scale👥 Guest: James Ross – Founder, Mode Network and SynthTower Twitter: https://x.com/jrosstreacher 🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh 📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe Follow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Stablecoins are crypto’s biggest product-market fit—$230B and growing. But the pipes that move them? Broken.In this episode, Saurabh speaks with Jay Kurahashi-Sofue (CMO) and Ryne Sachs (CEO) of Eco, who are building something surprisingly rare in crypto: infrastructure that actually works. Not another stablecoin—but a liquidity layer that coordinates capital intelligently across chains.We dive into:• Fragmented across venues and pools• How Eco’s “crowd liquidity” model lets users earn yield without impermanent loss• Eco's GTM and incentive mechanisms🎙️ Guests:Ryne Saxe – CEO, Eco Inc.Twitter: https://x.com/rynesaxeJay Kurahashi-Sofue – CMO, Eco Inc.Twitter: https://x.com/jayks🎧 Host:Saurabh Deshpande – DCo PodcastTwitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh📬 Stay Updated:Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribeFollow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

From regulatory battles that forced him out of DeFi, to the conviction that drew him back, Andre opens up about the unseen cost of innovation in a space that now rewards safety over experimentation.This isn’t a retrospective of Yearn or a breakdown of his past projects. It’s a look at why composability collapsed, how decentralisation became a UX burden, and why most builders today are creating walled gardens instead of primitives.We explore:• The psychological and legal toll of building in public• Why upgradability killed trust and composability in DeFi• Ethereum’s missed opportunity: 2% utilisation and a path to 8x throughput• The paradox of building secure, decentralised systems for users who don’t want to deal with either• Why Andre thinks you shouldn’t build in crypto and what to do if you still want toThis episode isn’t about nostalgia. It’s about reckoning with the systems we’ve created, and the incentives we’ve chosen.If you’ve ever asked yourself whether it’s still worth building in this space, this is the episode to watch.Timestamps — 00:00 Introduction 01:34 Navigating Regulatory Challenges in Crypto03:09 Legal Battles and SEC Interactions09:23 The Shift in Market Participants and Decentralization13:59 Innovation Stagnation in DeFi18:00 Balancing User Experience and Decentralization34:00 Scalability and the Limitations of Ethereum41:17 Innovations in DeFi Primitives44:10 Advice for Builders👥 Guest: Andre Cronje – CTO, Sonic LabsTwitter: https://x.com/andrecronjetech 🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh 📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe Follow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

Recorded just before the market was hit by tariff chaos, this episode captures a rare quiet moment—and uses it to unpack the deeper mechanics of how crypto actually works.From the Hyperliquid–JELLY saga to the evolving reality of intents, solvers, and Ethereum’s fragmentation, Jose brings sharp, grounded perspective without the fluff.This isn’t a polished panel or pitch deck walkthrough. It’s a low-pressure, free-flowing conversation that cuts through the noise—from Solana’s competitive shift to stablecoin strategies and the quiet rise of Pendle. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

In this episode, Ejaaz joins Saurabh to explore what it really takes to build usable, decentralized AI tools on crypto rails.We break down the AI x Crypto stack from first principles: – Why fragmented compute networks haven’t worked (and what might change that) – How AI agents are reshaping crypto UX – Why open-sourcing everything could backfire in an alpha-driven world – Who the actual users of crypto-AI might be—and why they’re likely not crypto-nativeWe also discuss why product-led growth beats token-first strategies in the long run, and how to think clearly when everything—from apps to infrastructure—is bleeding into each other.If you're a founder, crypto builder, AI researcher, or just trying to make sense of where this industry is heading, this conversation is for you.Key Moments —00:00 Introduction 01:10 Understanding the AI Stack10:04 Business Models in the AI Stack18:41 AI's Role in DeFi27:58 The Future of Trading Agents33:27 The Case for Proprietary Strategies35:10 Opportunities for AI in Crypto39:10 Bridging Web2 and Web3 with AI43:16 The Role of Agents in Supply Chain and Enterprise47:56 Identifying Blind Spots in AI and Crypto49:39 Accelerate DAO👥 Guest: Ejaaz Ahamadeen – Co-Founder, Aiccelerate DAO Twitter: https://x.com/cryptopunk7213 🎙️ Host: Saurabh Deshpande – DCo Podcast Twitter: https://x.com/desh_saurabh 📬 Stay Updated: Subscribe to DCo Newsletter → https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe Follow DCo on Twitter → https://x.com/Decentralisedco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

We break down why the familiar crypto playbook no longer applies. We explore the death of predictable Bitcoin cycles, how macroeconomic shifts under Trump's administration are reshaping markets, and why stablecoins like USDC could soon dominate finance. Will shares his disciplined strategy—separating long-term conviction from short-term trades—and why crypto, in his words, remains 'the purest form of capitalism.' Tune in for a grounded, insightful take on navigating today's evolving crypto landscape.00:00 Will's Journey04:19 From Trading Sneakers to Bitcoin and Market Analysis06:20 Market Dynamics and Economic Influences15:52 Investing in Private Deals20:02 Navigating Criticism and Building a Social Media Presence25:13 Advice for Aspiring Investors and Content Creators28:56 Trends in Bitcoin and Institutional Adoption32:55 The Future of Crypto: Speculation and Regulation34:10 Portfolio Management: Balancing Long-term and Tactical Investments36:37 Stablecoins38:11 Bitcoin L2s and DeFi: Exploring New Frontiers40:45 Market Cycles47:27 Building Sustainable Businesses in Crypto51:00 The Role of Regulation in Unlocking Crypto's Potential55:55 From Memecoins to Value-driven Investments01:01:03 Market Outlook: Short-term Caution vs. Long-term OptimismFollow Us: DCo – https://x.com/Decentralisedco Will Clemente – https://x.com/WClementeIII Saurabh Deshpande – https://x.com/desh_saurabh Subscribe to DCo Newsletter – https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

In a space where information is the ultimate edge, how do the best traders and builders stay ahead?Shaw from elizaOS returns to the podcast to break down the harsh realities of crypto trading, AI-driven investing, and building through market cycles. We explore:•The information edge in crypto: Why the best traders aren’t chart readers but those closest to deal flow.• AI trading agents: Overhyped? Why LLMs struggle with time-series data and where AI can actually add value.• Swarms over super AIs: The case for specialized AI agents instead of one-size-fits-all models.• Surviving market downturns: How token allocation mistakes are forcing founders into existential choices.• Revenue vs. hype: Why sustainable monetization beats reliance on speculative pumps.• Vampire attack partnerships: How some collaborations are designed to drain value rather than create it.Chapters —00:00 Introduction 02:52 The Role of AI in the Current Market05:53 Building Trust for AI-Driven Trading08:45 Exploring Copy Trading and Community Dynamics12:02 AI Agents and Swarms17:51 Practical Applications of AI Agents in Workflows28:09 Privacy and Security in Multi-tenant Environments35:12 Navigating Startup Challenges and Team Dynamics38:08 Tokenomics and Value Accrual Strategies46:21 Timing the Market and Launch Strategies50:20 The Future of Product Quality in DAOs51:09 Identifying Gaps in DAO Governance55:52 Balancing Contributions and Token Holding01:01:52 User Experience in DeFi Applications01:04:04 The Hype Cycle of New Technologies01:06:35 Lessons Learned from the Crypto SpaceFollow Us:DCo – https://x.com/DecentralisedcoShaw (wartime arc) – https://x.com/shawmakesmagicSaurabh Deshpande – https://x.com/desh_saurabhSubscribe to the DCo Newsletter – https://www.decentralised.co/subscribe This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co

We discuss Jai's journey from leading blockchain integration at Coinbase to founding DefinitiveFi, and how the platform grew from $20-30M to nine-figure monthly volumes.Jai explains the key innovations needed for mainstream DeFi adoption - gas abstraction, chain abstraction, and account abstraction - and how advanced order types like TWAPs allow large trades without moving markets. The conversation explores compliance challenges for institutions in DeFi, the intersection of AI and crypto, and token design philosophy.We also touch on DefinitiveFi's future plans, including expanding beyond spot trading to perps and yield strategies. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.decentralised.co