
Vertical Playpen
Want to learn more about Adventure and Experiential Education? Then this podcast is for you!
Listeners of this podcast will get;
- Adventure Programming Theory
- Facilitation Tips
- Activity Ideas
- Industry Career Advice
- Interviews from Industry Professionals
High 5 Adventure Learning Center is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to helping individuals, teams, schools, communities and businesses improve the way they live, learn and work together. Connect with us at high5adventure.org
Latest episodes

Aug 1, 2023 • 20min
High 5 Symposium 2023 | The Shared Experience
Join us in this podcast episode, "The Shared Experience," recorded live at the High 5 Adventure Symposium. Hosted by Phil and featuring a panel of enthusiastic attendees, this engaging session delves into the transformative power of adventure education. The episode kicks off with an exploration of the profound impact of adventure education on everyday life. Next up, the focus shifts to one of the core aspects of adventure education - encouraging participants to listen actively. The panel discusses various strategies and techniques they employ to create a supportive and open learning environment where individuals feel heard and valued, fostering a genuine sense of connection and growth. Intriguingly, the discussion then delves into the psychology behind the Dunning-Kruger effect and Imposter Syndrome. The conversation concludes with valuable tips on how to approach a challenging situation - talking to a supervisor about a disagreement. The participants share their experiences, offering practical advice on maintaining professionalism, articulating concerns effectively, and fostering constructive dialogue in the workplace. Join us in this episode as we celebrate the power of adventure education and hear from different perspectives as we share our experiences. Send us your questions - podcast@high5adventure.org DM on Instragram - @verticalplaypen Music and Sound Effects - epidemicsound.com

Jul 25, 2023 • 28min
Facilitation and Final Fantasy | Cam Miller
In this episode, join host Phil as he sits down with his long-time friend in the industry, Cam Miller, the Challenge Course and Facilitation Director at Kieve Wavus Education. Cam takes us back to the roots of his introduction to the world of adventure, recounting the pivotal moments that sparked his passion for pushing boundaries and exploring the great outdoors. Discover what has fueled Cam's commitment to the adventure industry and how his role as Challenge Course and Facilitation Director allows him to make a profound impact on the lives of others. Of course, it wouldn't be a complete conversation without a little fun! Join Phil and Cam as they draw unexpected parallels between their favorite Final Fantasy characters and their real-life personalities and what characters they would assign each other. As the episode draws to a close, Cam opens up about the advice he's received throughout his career – the nuggets of wisdom that he holds dear and those that he respectfully disagrees with. This is an episode packed with camaraderie, and valuable insights for anyone passionate about adventure, facilitation, or simply seeking personal growth. Connect with Cam - cammiller90@gmail.com Learn more about Kieve Wavus Education - https://www.kwe.org/ High 5 is Hiring - https://high5adventure.org/about-us/jobs/ Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Jul 18, 2023 • 26min
Thoughts on Trainer Credentialing | Niels Damman
In this episode, Phil is joined by Niels Damman, the Course Services Manager at Experiential Resources (ERI), to delve into the world of challenge course training. Niels brings his experience and expertise to shed light on the pros and potential hurdles associated with trainer credentialing in this field. Challenge courses have gained immense popularity as powerful tools for team building, personal growth, and experiential learning. However, ensuring the safety and effectiveness of these courses requires skilled and knowledgeable trainers. Phil and Niels discuss the importance of trainer credentialing and how it contributes to maintaining high standards and professionalism within the industry. They explore the numerous benefits of trainer credentialing, such as enhancing participant safety, ensuring consistent and quality experiences, and building trust with clients and participants. While trainer credentialing offers significant advantages, the conversation also delves into potential hurdles that may arise during the process. Phil and Niels discuss challenges such as establishing universally recognized standards, addressing the cost and accessibility of training programs, and navigating the evolving landscape of technology and innovation in experiential learning. Join Phil and Niels as they engage in a thought-provoking discussion on the importance of challenge course training, the benefits of trainer credentialing, and the potential hurdles that the industry faces. Whether you're a professional in the field, an enthusiast, or simply curious about the world of experiential learning, this episode will provide valuable insights into the evolving landscape of challenge course training. Learn more about ERI - https://www.experientialresources.com/ Connect with Niels - niels@experientialresources.net High 5 is Hiring - https://high5adventure.org/about-us/jobs/ Level 2 Training - https://store.high5adventure.org/collections/multi-day-workshops-and-trainings/products/beyond-basics-level-2-training?_ga=2.4017907.256024607.1689279033-69781410.1683822041 Music and Sound Effects - epidemicsound.com

Jul 11, 2023 • 31min
Connection Accelerators
In this episode Phil and Lisa explore different strategies and techniques that can enhance and deepen our connections with others. Drawing from their personal experiences, Phil and Lisa shed light on various connection accelerators that have the potential to transform our relationships. They discuss topics such as collective novelty, emotional significance, joy, and the accomplishment of challenging tasks. They emphasize the importance of sharing our WHY and not just our WHAT, allowing us to forge more authentic and meaningful connections. They also explore the role of choice and autonomy in engagement, highlighting how these factors contribute to building stronger bonds. They provide practical insights and actionable advice on how to apply these connection accelerators in our everyday lives, helping us navigate both personal and professional relationships more effectively. Whether you're seeking to enhance your social interactions, strengthen your team dynamics, or cultivate deeper connections with your participants, this episode offers a wealth of inspiration and guidance. Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - @verticalplaypen Music and Sound Effects - epidemicsound.com

Jun 27, 2023 • 16min
Rescue Plans and Suspension Trauma | Loui McCurley
We are joined on the podcast again by Loui McCurley, of PMI ropes and SPRAT (Society of Professional Rope Access Technicians). In this interview, Loui shares her invaluable insights on the critical topic of rescue plans, emphasizing their importance in ensuring the safety of individuals participating in ropes courses and similar activities. We delve into the essential components of a rescue plan. Loui offers practical advice and guidelines for creating effective rescue plans, highlighting key factors such as risk assessment, emergency procedures, communication protocols, and the significance of ongoing training for staff. Suspension trauma, a potentially life-threatening condition, also finds its place in our discussion. Loui sheds light on this physiological phenomenon that can occur during a fall arrest situation and explains the detrimental effects it can have on the body. She shares insights on preventive measures and the importance of prompt rescue interventions to mitigate the risks associated with suspension trauma. Looking to the future, we explore Loui McCurley's perspectives and hopes for the growth of challenge courses and the rope access industry. Tune in to this captivating conversation with Loui McCurley to gain a deeper understanding of rescue plans, the significance of staff training in ropes courses, the dangers of suspension trauma, and valuable insights into the future of challenge courses and the rope access industry. Note: SPRAT (Society of Professional Rope Access Technicians) is a non-profit organization that promotes safe rope access work practices, provides certifications, and establishes industry standards. Learn more about PMI - https://pmirope.com/ Learn more about SPRAT - https://sprat.org/ Connect with Loui - lmccurley@pmirope.com Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Jun 20, 2023 • 26min
Fall Protection | Loui McCurley
In this episode Phil had the privilege of sitting down with Loui McCurley, an expert in fall protection and rope access, CEO of PMI (Pigeon Mountain Industries) and original founder of SPRAT (Society of Professional Rope Access Technicians). One of the key aspects of fall protection is understanding the distinction between fall positioning, fall arrest, and fall prevention. Loui guides us through these different approaches, illuminating how each method serves a unique purpose in safeguarding individuals working at heights. Loui also delves into the contrasting approaches of active fall protection and passive fall protection. Clear communication is vital in the realm of fall protection, and Loui emphasizes the importance of using the correct terminology when describing fall protection systems and equipment. She discusses how accurate terminology eliminates confusion and ensures effective communication between professionals, workers, and regulatory bodies, ultimately promoting a safer work environment. Standards play a pivotal role in fall protection, and Loui highlights their significance in maintaining consistent safety practices. She delves into the process of creating fall protection standards, discussing the key principles that inform their development and implementation. Furthermore, she enlightens us on how these standards principles can be effectively taught to professionals, empowering them to uphold the highest safety standards within their respective industries. In the world of fall protection, being authorized, competent, and qualified are distinct designations defined by OSHA. Loui explains the nuanced differences between these terms, shedding light on the specific requirements and expectations associated with each. Listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the qualifications and competencies necessary to ensure optimal worker safety and compliance with regulatory guidelines. Join us for an incredibly informative conversation with Loui McCurley, as we explore the realm of fall protection, its intricacies, and its profound impact on worker safety. Whether you're an industry professional or someone interested in height safety, this episode promises to deepen your understanding of fall protection, leaving you equipped with valuable insights to promote a safer working environment. Be sure to check out the next episode where we continue the conversation with Loui, this time discussing rescue principles and techniques. Learn more about PMI - https://pmirope.com/ Learn more about SPRAT - https://sprat.org/ Connect with Loui - lmccurley@pmirope.com Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Jun 13, 2023 • 26min
Media Training and Avoiding the Rut | Matt Marcus
In this episode Phil is joined by Matt Marcus, the Manager of Adventure Gear and Sales at Challenge Design Innovations. With a wealth of experience and enthusiasm for the adventure industry, Matt takes us on a journey through his career, volunteer work, and his thoughts on the future of adventure education. One of the highlights of Matt's journey has been his involvement with the Association for Challenge Course Technology (ACCT). We discuss his volunteer work with the ACCT, including his contributions as a board member. As we peer into the horizon, Matt shares his insightful predictions on the future of the adventure industry. He discusses emerging trends, technological advancements, and the evolving needs of adventure enthusiasts. We also explore Matt's belief in the importance of media training for adventure educators and facilitators. Recognizing the power of storytelling and effective communication, he discusses how media training can elevate the skills of those in the industry, enabling them to connect with participants on a deeper level and create impactful experiences. Learn more about Challenge Design Innovations - https://challengedesign.com/ Connect with Matt - mmarcus@challengedesign.com Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Jun 6, 2023 • 30min
Creative Community Building | Spud Marshall
Join us on this insightful episode as we sit down with Spud Marshall, a creative community builder and facilitator, to explore the nuances of facilitating and harnessing the power of collective wisdom. In our conversation, we delve into Spud's personal journey and ask the thought-provoking question: "When have you felt most alone?" Discover how Spud's insights on navigating these feelings of solitude have shaped his approach to community building. As an introverted facilitator, Spud provides a unique perspective on engaging with others while honoring his own energy. Learn how he leverages his introversion as a strength, allowing him to listen attentively, create safe spaces, and foster deep connections within the communities he serves. One of the key aspects we explore is tapping into the collective wisdom of groups. Spud shares strategies, techniques, and stories that demonstrate the power of bringing diverse voices together to generate innovative solutions and collective intelligence. Finally, we dive into the benefits of focusing on long-term outcomes for participants. Spud's experience reveals how nurturing a community's growth and development over time leads to lasting impact and transformation. Gain insights into the ripple effects that can emerge when facilitators prioritize the bigger picture and guide participants towards sustainable growth. Learn more about Spud - https://mycreative.community/ Connect with Spud - iamspud5@gmail.com Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

May 30, 2023 • 16min
Accomplishment vs Achievement
In this thought-provoking episode, Phil and Lisa unravel the essence of achievement, a realm where goals are often set externally, driven by the expectations and judgments of others versus the realm of accomplishment, where individuals set their own goals based on personal growth and learning. By empowering ourselves to define success and progress on our own terms, we explore how accomplishment provides a more intrinsic and fulfilling motivation. Drawing connections to the field of adventure education, we explore how educators can inspire and guide learners to cultivate a healthy balance between achievement and accomplishment. We reflect on the importance of encouraging students to set their own goals, fostering a sense of ownership and agency in their learning journeys. What did this make you consider regarding the way you work with your participants? Let us know either by email - podcast@high5adventure.org or via instagram - @verticalplaypen NY Times essay - "What we lose when push our kids to 'Achieve'" by Adam Gopnik - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/opinion/youth-achievement-happiness.html Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

May 23, 2023 • 19min
Answering your questions
In this episode Phil answers the following questions submitted by you, the listeners; - Is there room for introverts in facilitation? - How do you stay genuine in a "performancy" profession? - What is your favorite icebreaker question? - Best closing to a single day program? - Most under-appreciated facilitator skill? - What's something you are bad at and are working on improving? - What's your process when you have a bad day? Submit all future questions to - podcast@high5adventure.org or send a message via instagram - @verticalplaypen Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com