
Vertical Playpen
Want to learn more about Adventure and Experiential Education? Then this podcast is for you!
Listeners of this podcast will get;
- Adventure Programming Theory
- Facilitation Tips
- Activity Ideas
- Industry Career Advice
- Interviews from Industry Professionals
High 5 Adventure Learning Center is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to helping individuals, teams, schools, communities and businesses improve the way they live, learn and work together. Connect with us at high5adventure.org
Latest episodes

Mar 4, 2025 • 27min
AEE APAC Conference 2025 Reflections
Phil (AEE Board President-Elect) and Sherry Bagley (AEE Executive Director) discuss their experiences at the AEE Conference in Hong Kong, focusing on the significance of the Asia Pacific region, lessons learned, the role of academia in experiential education, and the importance of engaging the next generation of educators. They share unique cultural experiences and reflections on risk management and child safeguarding, emphasizing the value of building connections and community within the field. The Asia Pacific region is vast and diverse, requiring tailored approaches to experiential education. Experiential education is more about the 'why' than the 'what' or 'where'. International inclusion means sharing knowledge from all regions, not just the US. Academic legitimacy is crucial for the growth of experiential education in Asia. Workshops on risk management highlighted the need for practical application of policies. Engaging students and new educators is essential for the future of the field. Cultural experiences can enhance personal growth and understanding. Building relationships is key to fostering a strong community in experiential education. Unique experiences, like calligraphy classes, can deepen cultural appreciation. Future conferences should prioritize first-time presenters to encourage new voices. Connect with Sherry Bagley - sherry@aee.org Connect with Phil - pbrown@high5adventure.org Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Feb 18, 2025 • 33min
The History of Experiential Learning | Professor Colin Beard
"Education wasn't for certain people." In this conversation, Phil and Professor Colin Beard delve into the history and evolution of experiential learning, exploring its prehistory and the cognitive capacities that have shaped human learning. They discuss the limitations of traditional educational models and the importance of recognizing the contributions of lesser-known figures in education, such as Maria Montessori and Marina Ewald. The conversation culminates in the introduction of the Holistic Experiential Learning Model (HELM), emphasizing the need for a more complex understanding of learning that incorporates various human capacities. Humans have been learning throughout their entire existence. The evolution of learning capacities spans millions of years. Traditional educational models often overlook essential cognitive functions. Maria Montessori's contributions to education are significant yet underrecognized. The complexity of learning requires a holistic approach. Experiential learning should utilize all human capacities. Simplicity in educational models can lead to limitations. The importance of questioning in the learning process is paramount. Silenced voices in education highlight systemic biases. The Holistic Experiential Learning Model (HELM) offers a new perspective on learning. Connect with Professor Beard - colbeard2@outlook.com Connect with Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - @verticalplaypen Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Feb 11, 2025 • 14min
What Are Your Questions?..and more helpful phrases
Phil shares five key phrases that enhance his training and communication. He emphasizes the importance of preparation on the ground, reframing questions to encourage engagement, and fostering creativity through vague responses. He also discusses the value of embracing mistakes as learning opportunities and the significance of connecting through shared experiences and purpose. If you can do it on the ground, do it on the ground. Reframing questions can lead to better engagement. Encouraging creativity requires intentional vagueness. Normalizing mistakes is essential for learning. Connection is more about the why than the what or where. Preparation is key to effective problem-solving. Asking 'What are your questions?' invites participation. Mistakes are part of the learning process. Shared experiences create stronger connections. It's important to allow space for questions in training. Connect with Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org instagram - https://www.instagram.com/verticalplaypen/ Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Feb 4, 2025 • 16min
Understanding Rescue Plans | Loui McCurley
Phil is joined by Loui McCurley to discuss the essential components of effective rescue plans, emphasizing the importance of understanding the subject in distress, the need for timely response, and the implications of suspension trauma. Loui highlights the significance of training and preparedness in rescue scenarios, as well as the potential for growth in the ropes course industry and its impact on personal development and safety practices. Rescue plans should focus on the subject in distress. Timely response is crucial in rescue situations. Suspension trauma can have serious medical implications. Training should include both verbal and physical reach techniques. Extrication methods should prioritize safety and efficiency. Calling emergency services early can save lives. Understanding the risks of suspension is vital for safety. The ropes course industry has significant growth potential. Rope access techniques improve safety and efficiency in inspections. Adventure education fosters personal growth and teamwork. Contact Loui - lmccurley@pmirope.com Contact Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/verticalplaypen/ Music and sound effects - https://www.epidemicsound.com/

Jan 28, 2025 • 26min
Navigating Fall Protection Standards | Loui McCurley
Phil is joined by Loui McCurley to discuss the intricacies of rope access and fall protection, emphasizing the importance of understanding various safety standards and the role they play in ensuring safety at heights. He highlights the differences between fall protection methods, the significance of training and competency, and the value of cross-industry knowledge sharing in enhancing safety practices. Rope access is a specific type of fall protection. Fall protection encompasses various methods to prevent falls. Understanding safety standards is crucial for compliance. Standards development involves diverse perspectives. Experience is essential for understanding safety systems. Competency involves recognizing hazards and taking action. Qualified individuals have relevant experience and education. Cross-industry collaboration enhances safety knowledge. Training should focus on practical understanding and experience. Knowledge sharing events foster innovation and safety improvements. Contact Loui - lmccurley@pmirope.com Contact Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/verticalplaypen/ Music and sound effects - https://www.epidemicsound.com/

Jan 21, 2025 • 22min
Brain Games and Who Smarted? Creating Engaging Learning Through Play | Jerry Kolber
Phil and Jerry Kolber (producer of the tv show Brain Games, and the podcast Who Smarted?) explore the intersection of play and education, sharing personal anecdotes and insights on how to make learning more engaging and relatable. They discuss the importance of memorable moments in life, the role of play in education, and the inspiration behind the show 'Brain Games.' Jerry emphasizes the need for humor and relatability in teaching, while also highlighting the impact of educational content on young audiences. The conversation concludes with reflections on sustaining passion in education and crafting engaging learning experiences. Play is essential for effective learning and engagement. Memorable moments shape our experiences and learning paths. Education should be fun and relatable to spark curiosity. Humor can significantly enhance the learning experience. Experiential learning allows for creativity and critical thinking. Creating opportunities for play in education can lead to better outcomes. The education system needs to evolve to meet modern needs. Engaging content can inspire students to pursue their passions. Sustaining passion in education is crucial for both educators and students. Connect with Jerry - jerry.kolber@atomicentertainment.com Listen to Who Smarted? - https://whosmarted.com/ Connect with Phil - podcast@high5adventure.org Podcast instagram - https://www.instagram.com/verticalplaypen/ Music and sound effects - https://www.epidemicsound.com/

Jan 14, 2025 • 34min
The Reggio Emilia Approach and Adventure Education | Honor Woodrow
In this episode, guest host Anne Louise Wagner and Honor Woodrow (Winston Prouty Center) discuss the Reggio Emilia approach to early childhood education, emphasizing the importance of viewing children as capable and competent learners. They explore how the environment plays a crucial role in facilitating learning and how educators can create engaging spaces that promote exploration and play. The conversation also touches on the challenges educators face in adopting child-led learning approaches within structured educational systems, highlighting the need for balance between freedom and structure in teaching. This conversation explores the themes of trust, risk, empowerment, and conflict resolution in education. The speakers discuss the importance of allowing children to take risks in their learning, the biases educators may hold, and the concept of 'lighthouse parenting' as a guiding philosophy. They emphasize the value of conflict as a learning tool and the emotional aspects of education, advocating for a supportive environment where all emotions are valid and children have the right to learn and express themselves. The Reggio Emilia approach emphasizes children's capabilities from birth. Learning is co-constructed through play and exploration. The environment should be intentionally designed to foster learning. Facilitators must be responsive to children's interests and needs. Child-led learning does not mean a lack of structure. Cultural context influences educational practices and philosophies. Educators face challenges in letting go of control in the classroom. Documentation of learning processes is essential for reflection. Building relationships is key to effective learning environments. The goal is to support children in becoming healthy members of society. Trust is essential in educational settings. Risk-taking is a crucial part of learning. Educators must be prepared for potential risks. Children need to experience challenges to learn effectively. Biases can be positive and aligned with values. Empowerment and autonomy are key in education. Lighthouse parenting offers a balanced approach. Conflict can be a valuable learning opportunity. Emotional experiences are integral to learning. All children have the right to learn and express emotions. Connect with Honor - honor@winstonprouty.org Connect with Anne Louise - alwagner@high5adventure.org Connect with Phil - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/verticalplaypen/ Music and sound effects - epidemicsound.com

Jan 7, 2025 • 36min
Balancing Risk and Growth in Parkour | Toby Segar
In this engaging conversation, Phil and Toby Segar explore the themes of connection, passion, and the importance of experiential education. They discuss how sharing personal interests can foster deeper connections, the role of failure in learning, and the significance of vulnerability in adventure. The conversation also delves into the perception of risk and how childhood experiences shape our understanding of it, ultimately emphasizing the value of embracing challenges and learning from mistakes. They alson discuss the importance of allowing children to experience risk to foster confidence and resilience, the psychological implications of safety measures in climbing, and the evolution of public perception towards parkour. The dialogue emphasizes the balance between managing risk and encouraging growth through experiential learning. Failure is an integral part of the learning process. Vulnerability can enhance connections in adventure sports. Experiential education allows for creative learning opportunities. Risk perception is often influenced by societal norms. Childhood experiences shape our understanding of risk. It's important to create environments where people can explore without fear. The relationship with one's ego evolves over time. Sharing vulnerabilities can make experiences more relatable. Engaging with risk can lead to personal growth and confidence. Allowing children to experience risk fosters confidence. Risk homeostasis can lead to increased danger despite safety measures. The perception of safety can create a false sense of security. Experiential learning is crucial for personal development. Public perception of parkour has evolved positively over time. Understanding risk is essential in adventure sports. Failing often and learning from it is key to growth. Community engagement can shift perceptions of extreme sports. Teaching risk management is more beneficial than eliminating risk. The journey of skill development takes time and experience. Check out Storror's Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/@STORROR Toby Segar on Instagram - @tobysegar Connect with Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - @verticalplaypen Music and Sound effects - https://www.epidemicsound.com/

Dec 31, 2024 • 29min
Challenging Gender Roles In Outdoor Education | Dr. Steve Sassaman
* The conversation in this episode is focused on gender. We both acknowledge that gender identity exists on a spectrum but will be discussing gender specifically as the socialized binary of male and female. This conversation explores the challenges and dynamics of gender roles and expectations in outdoor education. Dr. Steve Sassaman shares personal experiences and insights on how societal norms influence behavior in outdoor settings, the importance of role modeling, and the need for inclusivity in outdoor programs. The discussion highlights the shifting dynamics in participation and leadership roles, particularly among women, and emphasizes the importance of addressing privilege and identity in creating a more equitable outdoor experience. In this conversation, Phil and Steve explore the complexities of masculinity in outdoor education, the importance of redefining challenges to increase accessibility, and the need for intentional programming that prioritizes mental health and community building. They emphasize the value of critique and continuous learning in teaching, advocating for a humble approach that fosters trust and genuine connections with students. Challenging gender roles is crucial in outdoor education. Personal experiences shape our understanding of gender dynamics. Intentionality in shaping outdoor experiences can challenge norms. Masculinity can be expressed positively without dominance. Role modeling is essential for fostering inclusivity. Privilege can be used to empower marginalized voices. Inclusivity in outdoor spaces benefits everyone. Gender diversity is increasing in outdoor programs. We must address safety concerns for all participants. Creating true inclusion requires ongoing dialogue and reflection. Ego and socialized norms around masculinity are pervasive in outdoor education. Redefining challenges can increase accessibility for all participants. Intentional programming should prioritize mental health and community building. Saying 'no' can be just as impactful as pushing through challenges. Critique is essential for growth and improvement in outdoor education. Building trust requires humility and a willingness to learn from students. The history of outdoor education often overlooks contributions from women and people of color. Creating space for critical thought enhances the learning experience. Outdoor educators should focus on human skills alongside technical skills. Continuous learning is vital for educators to remain effective and relatable. Connect with Steve - steven.sassaman@asu.edu Connect with Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - @verticalplaypen Music and Sound effects - https://www.epidemicsound.com/

Dec 24, 2024 • 33min
Why Do Most Icebreakers Fail? | Mark Collard
In this conversation, Phil and Mark Collard (Playmeo) delve into the critical elements of effective icebreakers and team-building activities. They explore why many icebreakers fail, emphasizing the importance of fun, interaction, and creating a non-threatening environment. Mark shares his insights on the five key elements that contribute to successful icebreakers, encouraging facilitators to focus on nourishing participants' souls and ensuring activities are engaging and comfortable. The discussion highlights the need for facilitators to be mindful of participants' experiences and to create opportunities for genuine connection. In this conversation, Mark and Phil explore the essential elements of effective icebreakers and group activities. They discuss the importance of choosing what to share, connecting through technology, and the need for simplicity in instructions. The duo emphasizes creating a success-oriented environment that fosters interaction and vulnerability while aligning activities with the group's goals. They also introduce a litmus test for evaluating icebreakers and conclude with a recap of the key principles for successful group engagement. Icebreakers often fail due to poor execution. Fun is essential for effective icebreakers. Activities should be highly interactive to engage participants. Non-threatening environments foster better connections. Facilitators should avoid introducing activities by name. Comfort zones are crucial for participant engagement. Public speaking is a common fear that should be considered. Renaming icebreakers doesn't solve the underlying issues. Activities should nourish participants' souls. Building relationships is the ultimate goal of icebreakers. You can choose what to share based on comfort. Technology can enhance personal connections. Simplicity in instructions is crucial for engagement. Activities should be success-oriented, focusing on interaction. The litmus test helps evaluate the effectiveness of icebreakers. Align activities with the group's goals for better outcomes. Activities can be adapted to fit different contexts. Understanding the 'why' behind activities is essential. All five principles of engagement are interrelated. Success metrics should focus on energy and vulnerability. Check out playmeo - https://www.playmeo.com/ Connect with Mark - ceo@playmeo.com Connect with Phil; Email - podcast@high5adventure.org Instagram - @verticalplaypen Music and sound effects - https://www.epidemicsound.com/