The 18STRONG Podcast

Guest: Mike Carrol (Fit For Golf)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 361Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Listen in as we welcome Mike Carroll, the mastermind behind Fit for Golf, to the 18STRONG Podcast. Our conversation takes a thorough look at fitness within the realm of golf, exploring how strength and speed training can lead to significant improvements in your game. Mike brings his unique insights into training golfers and shares valuable dos and don’ts for consulting with professional golfers. He shares how he primarily works with them remotely, showing the flexibility and adaptability of his methods. As we continue, we explore the significance of physical training in golf, focusing on swing speed and its relationship to the technical aspects of the game. We discuss the importance of understanding the biomechanics of the swing and how to enhance the physical qualities that contribute to it. There’s a focus on prioritizing physical training to improve physical qualities while using practice time for skill development. Listen closely as we caution against getting too wrapped up in specific exercises that may not significantly impact performance. Our guest Mike, a prominent figure in the world of golf fitness, offers his insights on long-term physical training structure. He recommends three training sessions per week focusing on strength training, cardiovascular exercise, and explosiveness or power work. Listen in for a discussion on golf injuries and recovery, highlighting common injuries and emphasizing the importance of rest. Wrapping up the episode, Mike shares his favorite golf books, social media accounts to follow, and the best piece of golf advice he has received. So, whether you’re a seasoned golfer or a beginner looking to up your game, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice. Main Topics (00:04) Fitness and Golf Interview with Mike Carroll on simplicity in golf fitness, training professional golfers remotely, and improving game performance. (11:07) Physical Training’s Importance in Golf Proper biomechanics and physical training are crucial for swing speed in golf, while skill development should be prioritized during practice. (20:37) Effective Long-Term Physical Training Structure The ideal training program for golf includes strength, cardio, power, mobility, and scaling for injuries to improve physical function. (31:51) Mobility and Speed Training in Golf Mobility work and warmups improve golf performance, incorporating dynamic movements and swing speed for average golfers. (36:28) Speed Training for Golfers Speed training for golfers leads to improved swing speed through physical capabilities and skill practice, with the potential for significant gains. (49:08) Benefits of Training for Golfers Resistance and speed training benefits health, fitness, and longevity. Start slow, warm-up, and incorporate into golf routine. (57:16) Golf Injuries and Recovery Importance Golfers should gradually increase speed training, prioritize rest and recovery, and avoid overtraining to prevent injuries. (01:07:05) Golf Recommended books, dream golf foursomes, bucket list courses, social media accounts, and best golf advice from guest Mike. Follow Mike Carroll Instagram: @fit_for_golf Twitter: @Fit For Golf https://fitforgolf.blog/ Links Mentioned The Stack System Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:05 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 361 with Mike Carroll of Fit for Golf. What’s up, guys? This is the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode, I’m super excited to finally have Mike Carroll on the show from Fit for Golf. Mike has one of the most popular social media accounts and golf fitness apps out there and is really just some great things for not just the high level golfers but really the golf population in general. And so in today’s episode, we get to really kind of talk about the in and outs of strength training, building speed in your golf game, and really how keeping things simple is really the best way for you to make significant gains without overdoing it. But also, if you’re just starting out, then you’re going to be able to make much more significant gains than you think you are. And then we’re going to talk a little bit about the dos and don’ts of strength training and speed training, and so we’re going to really help you figure out what you need to do to make your game better and make yourself stronger. Right at the best, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. Go again 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. Mike Carroll, welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. 0:02:06 – Mike CarrollThanks very much for having me, Jess. I look forward to chatting. 0:02:09 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, honestly, I can’t believe that it’s taken me this long to bring you on the show. I feel like we should have had this conversation years ago, but I just love everything that you’re doing. I think when people think fitness and golf, you are definitely one of the people that they come to mind, especially in the social media world and in the fitness world. So congrats, first of all, on all your success and everything you’re doing. 0:02:34 – Mike CarrollThank you very much. I think the fact you haven’t gotten me on is probably the same that you’ve got far more interested guests to talk to, which is probably a good thing. 0:02:45 – Jeff PelizzaroSo where are you now? Obviously, people can tell from your accent that you’re not from the States, but you’re in the States now, right? 0:02:52 – Mike CarrollYeah, I’ve been in Southern California for seven years around Huntington Beach, newport Beach, irvine area. I’m from Ireland. I was born there, all my family is there, was there until I finished college and then a couple of years afterwards and I moved out here to work for, like I called Mike Hansen in a juke called Hansen Fitness for Golf. Mike’s been kind of specializing in training golfers for probably maybe 20 years now definitely over 15. And there was a job opportunity in his gym that I saw online and applied came over. So I came over in 2016 and started working for him. At the same time, I started up the Sid for Golf I had. About three years ago I stopped working for white and white full-time with Sid for Golf, which is 95% the app, and then I traveled to work with a couple of professional players a little bit, but only a few times a year. So kind of an interesting. In the last two years I basically stopped being an in-person trainer, which I had been for the 10 years previous. I’m now much more so like running an online business and, I guess, consulting with some high-level players trying to help them with their physical preparation. 0:04:26 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you said you’ve traveled to a couple tournaments. Do you have any? Are there any pros in your area that you see on a relatively normal basis, or is it all just consultation stuff? 0:04:37 – Mike CarrollSo there’s not a single PJ Torpler in Linsen, california, to the best of my knowledge, because the state taxes are so high. I think Phil was the last one and then, when his daughter finished high school, I think even he left. Obviously he’s one of the guys who’s made enough money where he wouldn’t think it would matter, but I honestly don’t think there’s any of them based here. So I currently work with three PJ Torplers and none of them live here. So I tend to see them at tournaments and what’s nice about that is I go to a tournament and I get to see two or three of them in the same week, so it’s a nice way to catch up. And how do I do that? A few times a year and then most of it is just talking to the regularity by phone and text and checking up on things that way. 0:05:30 – Jeff PelizzaroGotcha. So, yeah, a lot of online stuff. When you first meet with them, do you do an in-person assessment, like do you travel to go see them even before a tournament or anything like that, or is it strictly pretty much at the golf tournaments? 0:05:45 – Mike CarrollNo, we usually get started after a phone call, to be honest, like a nush huge on, like regimented screaming, was our assessments. To be honest, and because I think we can usually kind of start training and making progress without doing that, based on sort of the information they were made to me in a phone call and we started maybe looking over some of their trading records and some of their stats and things like that. So, honestly, when a lot of them I could be training them or, I guess, consulting with them remotely for months and like many months before I see them in person, it’s definitely nice to see them in person from time to time. You get to check up on things. It’s definitely good to sort of build a relationship as well. But, to be perfectly honest, I just don’t want to be on the road, kind of traveling like around week to week. So, yeah, that’s just the way my input is going to work. To be honest is I’m going to be mostly remote and then when I do go to maybe I don’t know three or five tournaments a year and maybe see them once or twice outside of that, if we happen to be in the same location for whatever reason, it tends to work quite well. 0:07:06 – Jeff PelizzaroNice. So you said that you came over to work with Mike, but obviously that’s a huge jump going from Ireland over to California. Were you looking to move, change locations? Or was it simply you came across that opportunity and you’re like yeah, I got to take this. 0:07:25 – Mike CarrollYeah, it was mainly I just saw the opportunity and it suited sort of what I was doing or what I was interested in at the time, like I think I was only maybe 24 or so, maybe 25. So I was shortly finished. It was only a short time after college. I was working as a trainer, like working for myself, based in a gym, and just didn’t really have any commitments. So it was just, I was very mobile in terms of I didn’t have any ties keeping me at all, basically apart from family, but ordered matters. It was easy. So, yeah, once I was able to kind of secure work and get a visa taken care of that’s always the biggest stumbling block for anyone outside the US who wants to work in the US and I was happy to come over. 0:08:18 – Jeff PelizzaroWere there any like big surprises when you came over here? Had you been over to the States before? Were there any different big cultural shifts when you got over here? 0:08:27 – Mike CarrollI’d been to the States for two summers before that, both on the East Coast, and I did the summer caddy in New Jersey and I also did an internship with Eric Cressy in Cressy Sport Performance. But that’s a little bit different when you know you’re only coming, for they were both three periods. That’s a little bit different to kind of moving over and trying to work and get properly set up here. I wouldn’t say there was any huge cultural shifts because I had spent some time here, you know anyway, and life in Ireland and the US isn’t that different, to be honest, like the cultures and things are reasonably similar and obviously there’s no language barrier. Well, the accent is nearly a language barrier. But no, there’s nothing too major, to be perfectly honest. 0:09:22 – Jeff PelizzaroI would imagine that most people that are listening have heard of you or heard of Fit for Golf. What would you say is kind of the how would you describe your mentality when it comes to fitness and golf? I think that there’s a lot of different ways that people look at what fitness should look like when it comes to golf, and I know that you have some very strong opinions on just the way that you like to train, the way that you run the app, the way that you get you maximize your golfers potential. 0:09:55 – Mike CarrollYeah. So I think if you’re trying to work with people in physical preparation for any sport, you need to be able to determine what are the limiting factors in that sport from a physical perspective. If we look at golf, what are the demands of golf when there’s two main things that are happening in the sport from a physical perspective? Number one is we’re making golf swings and number two is we’re walking. There’s some standing around as well, but it’s mainly walking and swinging and walking. The ability to walk a golf course and sustain that is very rarely a limiting factor unless there’s a serious injury or a major medical problem. Those things are generally not particularly hard to get to a level where there’s going to be no further benefits and performance. Like there’s tons of regular everyday club players that are at a level that would be more than sufficient to be PGA tour standard in terms of walking the golf course because they’re fit of people. But then if we think of the physical qualities that are involved in swinging a golf club at a level that the best players do, then we start to see that there’s a huge golf when people tend to lack the mobility, the strength and power that higher levels of players do and club at speed has the biggest relationship between differences and playing levels. When you look at, a big population of golfers across a wide range of scores saw that as due to technical mastery for sure just differences in literally quality of swing. It’s a technique broader than a physical thing. But even at the highest level of the golf we see that that’s one of the big differentiating factors. And that’s the thing to where a wide, big interest is essentially understanding the biomechanics of the swing. What goes into a now in golfers swing faster from a mechanics standpoint, and then how could we enhance the physical qualities that underpin that? And I guess that’s it in terms of working with real high level players. But probably what I’m just as interested in is essentially trying to help people get to a very high level of fitness and physical function and then be able to maintain it for as long as possible. And what’s sort of really nice for all of us that are interested in both golf and that is that there’s huge crossover in that the things that you need to do to be in a position to swing very fast also have great transfer to just stay fit and strong and healthy and everyday life. I am thinking that for decades really. 0:12:53 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s what really resonates with me when going through your stuff and watching the way that you present information online, is that while it is totally geared towards the golfer and really a lot of it is geared towards increasing their strength, increasing their swing speed you do a great job of crossing it over into the lifelong aspects of it too, because golf is a unique sport that, unlike any others, we can play when we’re five years old and we want to continue to play until we can’t swing a club anymore, and so to really work on the longevity piece I think is so important. But you mentioned really kind of diving into the mechanics of what does it take to build swing speed? What are the pieces of the body, the movement pieces, and there is always the technique side, there’s the strengthening side and, from my perspective, where it can get kind of muddied is how do we utilize the? Are people using too much or trying to use the exercises too much to work on the technique stuff as opposed to just working on their body and the athleticism? 0:14:06 – Mike CarrollYeah, that’s something that I kind of think about and talk about a lot. Really, how I usually describe it is that I think there’s a gray area where a lot of people get stuck in and in that they try to improve their swing technique and their physical characteristics like strength and power at the same time, and what often happens not always is that they end up choosing exercises that are not specific enough to the golf swing to improve their mechanics and they’re also not stressful enough to cause any type of physiological adaptation that’s going to improve the physical quality. I know they’re way better than not doing anything, like not exercising at all, but if we’re trying to get the most out of, like our hardly limited, let’s say, training time, I think we always kind of need to ask the question like what adaptation is this leading to? Is this enhancing the function of my nervous system? Like how well I can recruit muscle fibers and get them to contract? Is it a strong enough stimulus where it’s going to increase the size of my muscle fibers? Is there enough mechanical tension? And in a lot of those exercises there’s not, and the argument that could be made sort of to refute that is well, I’m doing something that he’s going to enhance my swing technique, but oftentimes I think it’s nowhere near as effective as actually practicing your golf swing with a golf club or with drills that are way, way more specific to that. So in January, I think most people are much better off trying to use their physical training time to enhance their physical qualities, use their practice time to work on their skill and allow those two things merge together, especially when it comes, I would say, to strength exercises. If we tried to get too cute with, like, simulating movement patterns, which is where a lot of people kind of would go down the specificity of route, we started running into problems very quickly in terms of not being able to load them heavy enough or have many options for progressing the long term where we can actually make progress in the long run and like, if you think of something like, say, like a cable pulley rotation or a medicine ball throw or something like that, sure they could be used to strengthen muscles that are used in the golf swing in a reasonably similar fashion, but in terms of like the coordination and speed, they’re still a million miles away from the actual golf swing. So they’re not specific exercises really. They’re slightly more specific than something like a bench press or a deadlift, but I still wouldn’t consider them very specific. They’re definitely not like technical drills that are going to have a direct impact on your golf swing. And then the other thing is like they just get challenging to load in the long term in a way that you can make a lot of progress and compare it to things that are more general in nature, are much more similar to being loaded and building strength and power of the long term. I still incorporate them a little bit because I think they’re value, but it just needs to be, in my opinion, a very clear rationale for why you’re doing a certain exercise and there needs to be a good understanding of, like what is the goal of the training and because otherwise we can just kind of fall into the trap of doing things that, no matter how much we improved at the exercise we’re doing, it just doesn’t have much potential to move the needle at terms of our performance. 0:18:06 – Jeff PelizzaroI would totally agree that you know, not asking that simple question of what’s the goal here, and I love even further going into what’s the adaptation that I’m really trying to work on and so many of our golfers I know personally in our community and I’m sure those in the fit for golf community and I would assume a lot of there’s a lot of crossover there are. We’re all stressed for time. We’re all looking to make things as efficient as possible, and that’s a message that I keep hearing from from you is you know, how do we really make the most sense of what we’re doing with the time that we have? You know, we got to practice, we got to, we got to train, we got to eat, we got to do all of these different things that are going to move us, move the needle, move us forward. But how do we, how do we help people not waste time on, you know, things that don’t really matter quite as much? So if you could, what’s a bit of a structure that you would tell people like, hey, these are the things that you really should be working on, thinking about as you’re getting ready to jump into your golf fitness training program. 0:19:12 – Mike CarrollYeah, so, generally, if I’m advising somebody with their overall let’s say, physical training, and if we take an average, you know, let’s say working person that’s maybe 60 or 60 years old or whatever, or it doesn’t really matter what age any any adult, I would say and our older adult, I’m a big fan of trying to get people to have a slot for exercise pretty much every day. The reason for that is, I think, that if people can do that, they’re much more likely to build a habit and stick to it. It doesn’t mean that every day is going to be a long training session or a very hard training session. What like is, if you think of it in terms of long term health and physical function. There’s really two elements of training that that people have to be on top of. Number one is cardiovascular fitness, what both people refer to as cardio or aerobic training. Like there’s kind of no way of arguing with the amount of research that shows how important VO2 maxes for longevity, which is basically how aerobically fit you are, and there’s also no arguing with the importance of muscle strength. So there are the two things that I get people to focus on mainly and how. I think a really nice way to structure it is is simply have three training sessions a week for each element and that might look like something like on a Monday, wednesday, friday, somebody is going to do their strength training work. It’s going to be three total body strength training sessions where they do a little bit of lower body, a little bit of trunk and a little bit of upper body. In each session, or each one of those sessions, they’ll go through dynamic warm up so that they’re getting to work out the mobility and flexibility stuff that everybody kind of wants to work on and says they need more of. Then, on the days in between, they’re going to do some cardiovascular exercise and that might be depending on what the person enjoys. They might be on a bike, they might be jogging, they might be inclined walking on a treadmill, they could be on a roller and elliptical, they might be like pick up basketball or hockey anything that gets your heart rate elevated for a sustained period of time. It’s honestly pretty much that simple for long term physical function in an ideal world. I’d also like people to incorporate some sort of what would generally be called like explosiveness or power work or race of force development work. That’s touched on pretty well by intense strength training. Well, most people don’t know is that as we get older, obviously we have a decline in physical function kind of across the board. We’ll show a like force production standpoint we lose speed and power faster than we lose strength and we lose strength faster, lose muscle mass. So we should have make our training set up in a way to help be proactive against that. And so what it tends to look like in a training session on the one day Wednesday, friday is dynamic warm up to get warmed up and work on your mobility. A little bit of lightweight, high speed power work, which might be things like explosives kind of swings, things like box jumps, lateral jumps. You can even do like short sprints or very short sprints on a bike. For the upper body it might be some medicine ball trolls or some band work that’s very, very fast in nature. There’ll be something like hitting a punch bag as hard as you can for 10 seconds and then moving into some strength work which would be kind of in general, because it’s just very efficient is bigger cup out lifts and like swatting, hinging for the lower body, pushing and pulling for the upper body and trying to get progressively stronger in those movements and then on the dick. That’s that covers really nicely mobility, explosiveness or power and strength, and those things also cover your muscle mass. And then on the days in between, do something for your cardiovascular fitness. It makes sense to vary up those things where you have maybe one one day that’s a longer, slower day where you’re trying to get the duration up. You have another day where you’re getting the intensity up and more of make an interval type fashion, and then on the other day you could do a little bit of a mixture or something like that, and that’s that’s honestly pretty much what people need to focus on from a from a physical training standpoint. Obviously it has to be scaled to their current level. You need to take into account injury concerns. They might have to choose the bold of the exercise or exactly which exercises they’re doing. And then if somebody is also really interested in getting better at golf, they need to have some time for practice and play. They need to squeeze in some time where they do like specific swing speed training, where they’re swinging as fast as they can, ideally with a radar for speed feedback, and pretty quickly the time requirement there can start to add up. So just completely depends on how much time someone’s able to commit. What cool is that? Like, even with that, say, three day of each template, even if you only had 10 minutes each of those days, the improvements that you would make compared to not doing it is absolutely enormous and so, yeah, that’s that’s kind of the way that I’ve been sort of structuring training for a long time. I think it works quite nicely for most people and gets them a nice balance across the various different elements and there’s no variety in there that it keeps people interested. 0:25:39 – Jeff PelizzaroI love how you break it down so simply and in my personal experience, talking with so many of the different coaches that we’ve had on the show, it’s when somebody like yourself breaks it down into very simple ways of doing it, that that’s when you know we can get really caught up in the flashy exercises and doing all of the different pieces. But really it boils down to getting simplified and doing the things right. Doing the strength training, doing the warm ups, doing all of that when do you because I always find this a little troublesome sometimes with clients and working in some of the corrective exercise stuff Like, if you do have people that you’re working on some other more accessory kind of things, some isolation movements where would you throw that in in kind of that template that you just laid out for us? 0:26:32 – Mike CarrollAnd honestly, I think that I think that say, like, if we’re talking about somebody who’s who’s has an injury that they need to rehab, I train you. Rehab as much as possible the same as training, because all that you’re really doing is scaling an exercise or an activity to whatever the person is currently able to tolerate and then gradually increasing the intensity to bring them towards whatever goals that they’re trying to get to. So like, for example, if someone has a shoulder issue, their upper body pulling and pushing exercises are probably going to need to be scammed back to something that’s, you know, pretty, pretty nice, maybe a slower tempo, with lighter ways and higher reps while they’re recovering from that injury and gradually build up to where they want to get to. And another element that I think is really important there for people who do have some sort of specific issue that they’re kind of rehabbing or that is having an impact on their training is don’t let an issue in one specific body part or one specific movement derail the rest of your training. Like, for example, if you have a shoulder or knee issue, train everything around that as best as you can. Why are you bringing that level? Why do you really need that area back up to par and like I would even go so as far as, like if someone like it’s really common for senior golfers to maybe get like a rotator cuff surgery or something like that Like they I you’d often might get an email from there or something saying you know, oh, I need a, you know, six week break or whatever While I get this surgery, and I’d be kind of trying to encourage them. Like six weeks of not exercising for someone in that day range like is is not good in terms of what they’re going to lose and how hard it is to build that back up. And that’s where things like machines in the gym are so, so useful because it allows you to knowledge of muscles without having to pick up any weights. So, like you could do calf raises and leg presses, you could even do upper body pushing and pulling on the uninjured side. You could be on, you know, things like bikes and rollers that you could use, you know, without using that injured body part. So I try to not, I guess, like worry too much about getting ultra specific with corrective exercises and more so. Just scale the training plan in whatever way a person needs and gradually build it up over time, like I think the person who coined the term is Charlie Weingroth, a pretty well known like physio and strength coach, and I think the phrase he uses is that rehab is training, training is rehab. There’s no difference between them. You’re just scaling them to the, to the level that the person can currently color it. 0:29:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know, anytime you have somebody even just working on things like posture and, and you know, getting a little bit more of the the upper back and, like you said, the rotator cuff, some of those different pieces, the hips just putting a little more focus on it, and I guess you talked about even in, like the dynamic warmups. You’re doing some of the things that maybe, like the smaller exercises as you would think of, I think it’s very easy to get caught up in like I just want to go, get to the gym, I want to do, you know, for for some people I want to go do my bench press or my squats or my, and get into the bigger things, but talk about how important it is to do that beginning piece and to get your body primed and ready to go for the bigger, stronger exercises. 0:30:19 – Mike CarrollYeah, that’s a good way to put it Like if you have a well designed training program that’s covering what you consider to be, I would say, like important muscles or literally just human movement, that human function in general, and then you’re you’re making sure that all of those are covered across a training week. If you could also follow a training program like that for any reasonable period of time, that’s going to be very corrective for any issues that they have like because getting stronger, getting more mobile and getting into better physical condition is going to be, like, comprehensively corrected. There’s not going to be things that aren’t getting touched on. And yeah, I think like one of the big things about a dynamic warmup is like we have to warm up before we train anyway to reduce the risk of injury and to improve the performance in the training session. So why not do it in a way that also improves our, our long term mobility? And if you can have some stuff that works on mobility of areas that need to be mobile and commonly get stiff things like the hips, spine, shoulders, neck and a little bit of mobility work on those before each workout and just adds up really nicely over time as your mobility work, and then you don’t need to. You know, devote a lot of training sessions to mobility work. And I haven’t. I haven’t done a mobility session in 15 years. I’ve been granted it in my 30s. Some people will say, wait till you know your ex age or whatever. But on the flip side, I do a dynamic warmup pretty much every day where I’m going through full ranges of motion for my spine, hips, shoulders, neck, because I’m doing that before and practicing, or playing, or before and working out, so like there’s been improvements in mobility there, without actually ever doing specific flexibility sessions. And then the other thing is that if your strength training program is well designed and you have exercises where you’re going through a full range of motion, that’s also highly effective for improving mobility. 0:32:42 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I even saw I think it was a post that you made either on Twitter or Instagram and this might have been talking about even before a round of golf. But you said, instead of thinking of it as a warmup, think of it as a little as a mini workout. And I love, I love that, right, because you see these golf, the tour players, and when you see them in the tour trailer, they’re not doing just like a stretching routine, they’re actually kind of getting after a little bit. 0:33:10 – Mike CarrollYeah, so what it actually said was think of a warmup less as stretching out. 0:33:16 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:33:17 – Mike CarrollAnd more like a mini workout. That’s right Because, like, the simplest way to look at a warmup is its preparation for the activity that’s about to go ahead and, like anyone who’s listening to this podcast is, you know, probably interested in the golf swing and being better at swinging the golf club. It’s clearly a very fast, dynamic activity. Like you go through rapid stretches, rapid contractions. It’s at high speed. Static stretching is not good preparation for that it’s. It’s very, very different to what you’re about to do. So we want to get warmed up by by moving, starting with slow movements, gradually building up to movements that are much faster and closer movement pattern to what we’re about to do with that. And what’s nice about that is those types of warmups compound over time and can actually make improvements in our physical qualities, like mobility and power, like the higher level players that I work with granted, they have more time and they have a fitness trailer at the golf course Like they all have a warmup that takes about 20 minutes Some of them actually like to do. One of them in particular likes to warm up for a little bit longer and almost, like you just said, turn it into a mini workout. But they go through their dynamic warmup routine which gets the heart rate up a little bit. It also gets them moving their hips and spine and shoulders through a full range of motion. But then they actually really like to finish the workout with things like vertical jumps, med ball throws, med ball slams, maybe even swinging like the stack or their driver like maximum speed, a few times to get really, really warmed so that when they go down to the range they don’t have to go through, like you know, 15, 20 minutes of trying to warm up and loosen up, hitting wedges and things like that. They’ll seem like that when they go to the range they could take out their driver and be ready to go without, you know, needing to get through that stiffness. And it also has the compounding effect of, if you’re doing that a few times a week before rounds, you’re going to be getting much, much more exposure to mobility and power work, which would benefits lockdown. 0:35:47 – Jeff PelizzaroTalking about swing speed. Obviously you’ve got your your stack system shared on and I know you work with those guys quite a bit and we just had Marty on the show a couple of weeks ago. You said in kind of the layout of your program if somebody is interested in the golf swing and they’re interested in getting better, that that not only practicing their golf is going to be very important, but working on their swing speed is important. And what does that look like for you and the programs that you put together for, let’s say, not the tour level guys, but just you know more of the average golfer. That’s on the fit for golf app and what can people expect if they’ve never experienced any kind of speed training before? 0:36:28 – Mike CarrollHonestly, like speed training could not be simpler, and the reason why is that there is physical capabilities, like physical characteristics that are very important, like strength and power and mobility, but it’s also there’s also a big skill element to it, and skill requires frequent practice to improve. So speed training is literally as simple as practicing swinging as fast as you can with the goal of going faster. So if you can guess a radar I think the PRG or is like I don’t have any affiliation with them I think it’s by far the best value radar on the market for speed trading. If you could do something like two or three days a week where you get warmed up and for people starting out, I think about 16 swings is a good number. As you get more advanced, you’d probably need to, like anything, build up the amount you’re doing a little bit more and maybe up to 30s or D is probably enough for the vast majority of people over in the course of like a number of months. But I keep it on the low end for as long as you can with still seeing progress. And obviously it’s that simple Like get warmed up, start taking some swings, have the radar for feedback, and having the radar also really boosts motivation and track your results and, like you, will naturally start to wrap up the speed. There’s things going on in your nervous system in terms of how well you can recruit fast twitch muscle fibers. It’s called motor unit recruitment. You’re able to send signals to the muscles faster it’s called rate coding. There are two things that happen as a result of speed training that are really beneficial. They tend to happen quite quickly. We improve the coordination of how our different muscles work together and there’s just the pure steel element of we figure out more efficient ways to swing the club, based on our bodies. Basically, and for people who have never done speed or strength training before, like for, let’s say, recreational adult golfers, it’s really common for golfers to gain 10 runs an hour club at speed in. I would say six to 12 months of training for sure. What’s interesting is that, depending from what I’ve seen, is that people who are untrained and they start speed training they can gain five months an hour in like a few weeks. The initial gains are really really quick and like the difference from gaining five miles an hour to gaining 10 miles an hour is usually like a big tougher. But it completely depends on what the person is done in the past. Like, for example, if you take the two opposite ends of the spectrum. If you take someone who hasn’t done much physical training and they have poor swing technique, they have huge, huge room for gains. Because if you only got that person to say, do workouts and didn’t work on their swing speed directly with speed training, they could probably gain five or six miles an hour with that, without really trying to work on their swing speed at all. If you got that same person and they didn’t do any workouts and they just did speed training, they probably gained similar or, to be honest, a little bit more. But if you combine both of them, like you have someone who works on speed training which is going to impact their technique. Maybe they work with an instructor that also helps with their swing and they’re doing training that’s going to prove like their strength and power. Like there’s huge, huge rule there that person might gain 12 miles an hour, maybe even more, depending on what their lowest target point is. But then if you consider, like someone on the opposite end of the spectrum, like a tour there, they already have pretty good swing mechanics. They probably already, like are aware of the benefits of being faster and have practiced some speed training and they probably already have done like workouts. They’re rather reasonable. You know level of appropriateness. So with someone like that, like if you can gain, like honestly, two or three miles an hour in like a season or two, would be hugely impressive. Like if you look at the PGA tour website where they list players, club head speeds, like there’s not many players at all gain a significant amount of speed. Like it’s impressive there’s a player gains, let’s say, two miles an hour from one season to the next, or I would say even more that three or four miles an hour from when they come out on tour to when they’re to when they’re at their fastest. That will be like really, really impressive Players your average 60 or 60 year old or 40 year old club golfers. They might gain that in a week, you know they might gain. Like, they might honestly they like actually gain that in like 10 swings because they realize, oh, I can actually swing well seven, but I’ve just been swinging 101 all the time because that’s just how I’ve been swinging. I didn’t realize if I actually tried harder there’s way more speed here. Yeah, that’s that’s what I would say. Like the people who have basically been doing less, less coaching, and have technically, let’s say, poor golf swings, have the most to gain. Like 10, 15 miles an hour is not a herd of. But then at the upper levels, like, if, like, if you’re totally engaged, three miles an hour from one season to the next, like that would be I really, unless they’re coming off, let’s say, some sort of injury or something like that, where they were clearly down from their normal, something like three miles an hour is big. I read those guys. 0:42:50 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I think that’s pretty refreshing for the that more, maybe more recreational golfer or somebody that hasn’t been working on any of it, to know. Like you know, sometimes it’s a little intimidating to get involved in some of these things and to start these things, but know that you just doing a little bit is going to give you a lot of gain 100% and, honestly, the training doesn’t even need to be hard, because when you’re a beginner to this stuff, or if you haven’t done it, not tight. 0:43:15 – Mike CarrollThe initial gains are really really easy Like they come. You honestly don’t need to work very hard at all to get initial gains and, to be honest, that’s actually what I recommend. I recommend not trying to push too hard early on, because that needs to, people either getting injured or burned out. So, yeah, like it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s nice that way. What’s interesting with training too, like and you see this across like whether it’s all in you know who, let’s say, loves to get the gym and they’re interested in you know getting their barbell it’s up or it’s. You know a runner who’s trying to get their five or 10 K times. Now, Like, there comes a point in training it’s really interesting, Like where that the early gains are very large and easy to call away. As you train more and get more advanced, they start to slow down. When that happens, what’s interesting is it’s extremely easy to maintain the progress you’ve made. So you’ll be hugely improved from where you started and maintaining that level is pretty easy, Doesn’t require much work compared to the amount of work that’s required to keep improving even a little bit. That can be huge and oftentimes like it gets to a point for people, honestly, where it’s like that’s just not work, like getting that out of this, how much I need to do it’s just not worth it. Because you know this is a hobby and doing it for fun, and it’s a case of it actually gets to a point really like where maintaining basically is progress, because as people are getting older the naturally is to decline. So if you’ve built up a high level from a few years of training, honestly being able to maintain that then for a long time and not decline is a pretty good deal, you know. 0:45:18 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s exactly what Marty Jertson from Ping in the Stack told us. He said that after the age of 40, typically you’re going to see a decline of like one mile per hour per year and so just maintaining if you maintain that for 10 years that means you’re going to be 10 miles an hour faster than your cohorts. 0:45:35 – Mike CarrollYeah, and what’s important to know too for, let’s just say, more seniors, like the older golfers, is that they often ask, like, am I too old to see improvements? And they might be 50 or 60 or 75 or whatever. And I think we’re conditioned because, like, we base almost our assumptions of, say, athletes declining from watching professional sports, and we see, you know the picture, the soccer player or whoever starting to decline. You know, maybe it’s in, depending on the sport and the position, maybe it’s their late 20s, maybe it’s their big 30s or maybe sometimes it’s their late 30s or 30, 40s. So what we need to remember there is, like those are people who have been training to reach their genetic potential for a couple of decades and then they start to see a very small decline. If you’re 50 or 60 or 70 and you haven’t been training, or you’ve been training kind of lackluster, without a good program and no real direction, when you start training, you know I would say like much more efficient matter, the rate of progress that you can see can be much larger than the rate of the natural biological decline. So that’s why he’s with people when they’re 70 or 80 or he’s an older, is that people are often thinking like, oh no, that’s an age when you start to, you know, get worse and slow down. Well, yeah, if you’re not doing anything, for sure there’s going to be a decline. But if you’re training in a pretty good fashion at that age, like you can 100% get stronger, get faster and make improvements at any age. Like one of the like coolest areas of research that I see coming out is like they do strength training studies in nursing homes with people who are in their 80s and 90s and like you see enormous increases in strength in people in their 80s from like six, like even like four or six eight week training programs. Like like 50% improvements and say like quad strength and stuff like this. Like that’s really important, for if you plans of, say, be able to play golf to a reasonably high level as you get older or even just have a high level of physical function, you know let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post workout protein shake. 0:48:13 – Jeff PelizzaroI use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the Formula One first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So make sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. It’s funny. So we just had the Thanksgiving holiday and I was over at my parents’ house and they’re both 69, getting ready to turn 70. And I was telling them how I want to order them a hex bar for their house, because what better exercise for them to just be lifting something a little bit heavy, putting low through their joints, putting low through their bones, because so many of the studies talk about not just for any kind of sports related function, but, yeah, just general health, general fitness, longevity, and they were open to it. It was kind of cool and obviously I just order one for my house. I have a 15-year-old son who’s getting into some competitive golf and I’m like you need to start lifting some stuff that’s a little bit heavier and he doesn’t get to the gym that often. And for all of you listening, you can get a hex bar at Walmart for $75. And it’s a thousand pound capacity. It doesn’t cost a whole lot. It’s a very simple exercise. I know you’re a big fan of it Just helping the population understand that just starting to lift some and heavy for you could be 65 pounds, right. 0:50:20 – Mike CarrollWell, yeah for sure, even like. First of all, I love that. That’s the exact type of thing I like to hear. Even easier than that that I try and encourage people to do is like I love to have everybody set up with bars and plates at home and things like that. It’s a hurdle, though you can have. The easiest way, I would say, to develop a high level of leg strength at home, if you don’t want to have a lot of equipment, is do split stance and single leg exercises where you can put your body mass onto one leg. Practice like step ups or step downs off of foot stools or something like that. Do some split squats, holding like any type of weight you have available. Your muscles don’t care what they’re being loaded with. They just respond to the tension that’s put on them. You can find ways to load them pretty well without elaborate equipment. That the response to that, compared to not loading them, is huge. Yeah, like if there was one message that I could send with my social media platforms and what I try to do more than anything, it’s to guess Like I’m trying to target golfers, I guess, because that’s what my demographic is, but it’s basically just to get the average person to understand the benefits and value of resistance training. Slash strength training and golfers have created the double whammy of that. It’s really beneficial for golf and like they get two benefits out of it. 0:52:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, definitely Back to the speed thing real quick. Are there any cautions that you would have for people that are just getting started or really anyone in general, as far as, like how frequent they do it? You know how you mentioned, you know not going crazy with the amount of swings, but any other cautions for somebody getting involved? 0:52:31 – Mike CarrollYeah, and it’s not an exclusive to speed training. It’s the same thing for pretty much any activity is that you should ease into it conservatively and no matter what activity you’re doing, if you start something and you do too much too soon, that’s when there’s a high risk of injury Like that can literally happen with walking and with speed training. Obviously it’s a reasonably intense activity, but we also need to remember that people who are going to be starting speed training, they generally do have a decent background of swing, like they are generally conditioned to swinging because they practice golf and they play golf. But I like the idea of if you’re going to say to two or three speed training sessions a week, I like the idea of treating your first, maybe four weeks or so as like an induction into it and not really worrying about trying to like set and break personal records and just get your body conditioned to swinging and then gradually swinging a little bit faster than you’re used to. And if you could do that like the whole gist and exercise like is that you put a little bit more stress on your body than it’s used to and adapts to it and then gets stronger. Where that goes wrong is when we put too much stress on our body and it can’t adapt to it. And then we keep doing that. That’s when an injury usually starts to pick up. So, like slow and steady, and then what you’d probably find is that you feel better and better doing it and, naturally, like you can then start to ramp up the speed. I would say that, combined with a very thorough warm like like I mean reasonably good physical condition, I can’t imagine going from like sitting at a desk for a day’s work to swinging a golf club as fast as I can. Like that would be bad idea. So you need to have like a pretty good warm up routine and the same one that you do like. I literally do the same warm up routine before every single practice session, speed session, workout and it’s just automatic. And then before you start swinging as fast as you can, spend a couple of minutes. Take practice swings where you start medium and gradually build up to full speed. Like you could do something like a set of eight medium to like normal and then a set of eight that’s like pretty fast or close to full speed, and then you should be ready for like going as fast as you can after doing your kind of dynamic warm up. The one like thing with speed trading that’s interesting, I would say like, is that the warm up and the speed training session would probably be about equal in like like. I would say like you could get a really good like, say, speed trading session done in like 10 to 58 minutes, but the warm ups probably have to be that long too, and that’s to help not get injured and you’ll also just do way better in the session. Like. You’d be amazed at how much faster you are and how much more benefit you can get when you’re only warmed up for a session as opposed to not really being ready to go. 0:55:59 – Jeff PelizzaroWould you say that three times a week is the limit of what you would have somebody do. Speed session wise. 0:56:05 – Mike CarrollYeah, like I don’t, like I don’t know the perfect answer to this, but I would be very skeptical that there is any benefit to going more frequently than that. And even if there’s potential for very, very small gains compared to three by week, I would say that it’s probably not worth this for the rate you’re increasing, picking up an injury and like there won’t be a direct relationship between how much we do and how many gains we get. Like the amount of gains we get will start to level off and then actually get to a point where we can’t recover from it. You might actually get less improvement compared to if you did less. What we need to remember in terms of, say, stress and loading on our soft tissue, like that’s a linear relationship in that the more we do, the more it’s multiplying. And that’s where I’d be worried about picking up like big goals. Like I’ve noticed in the last maybe say four or five years, that, from what I can see, more common in golfers is injuries in like the elbows and forearms and wrists. So you let me hear a lot more of golfers elbow, tennis elbow and some wrist issues, and I think it’s primarily for two reasons. One is speed training has gotten way more popular. I think we’ve died into it headfirst without really taking, you know, the kind of gradual build up that I was talking about, and oftentimes it’s combined with. People now have way more access to practicing indoors, you know, with, say, cheaper sims and large models and stuff like that, so they have a way bigger volume of practice than they’re used to and their speed training and the volume is just too high, too soon and yeah, so in the soft tissue just can’t keep up. So, yeah, I don’t think that there’s going to be. I don’t think more than three days a week is going to be worth it, to be perfectly honest. And even two days a week people make a lot of progress with. I think we’re one. So beginners will be fine, you’d probably see some progress. But what would happen is like you say, do a session, it would take maybe a day or two to recover, but then you’re going to have like two or three days of almost like using it before you get back on it, whereas if you can do a little bit, take a day off a little bit, take a day off. Or do a little bit, take two days off. Do a little bit, take two days off from speed training. I think that tends to work quite well, but that will be certainly dependent on the person. But yeah, what I definitely don’t want someone to do is like might just be training is a good idea. I can start tomorrow and I’m going to reach 50 swings a day Like a person. I would put money on them, probably running into an issue, and that would derail their progress quite quickly, as opposed to the person who sat the two or three a week for like 50 swings. I’d be gradually built up over in the course of weeks and months. 0:59:33 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m sure you’ve had this before too, but I’ve actually had a couple clients or people reach out and say hey, I’ve been doing my speed training six days a week and I’m not really seeing a whole lot of gain anymore. Well, how about we go back to two and I bet you’ll start to see some gains again, or maybe, or maybe not, but at least you’re not going to hurt yourself. 0:59:53 – Mike CarrollYeah. So what’s interesting about like speed training and city? I learned that I don’t know if there’s some video with Chris Beardsley, the striking conditioning research guy. So he’s an English guy that does a lot of like mentorship and education for coaches, but he’s written a lot about fatigue and the different types of fatigue and how it impacts, how training while we’re still under fatigue from a previous training session or training sessions kind of inhibit progress. And one of the things that he talks about which is really interesting is that when we have central nervous system fatigue which can be built up from and not a different types of workouts, and it’s primarily related to muscle damage. So muscle damage sounds scary. That basically what happens, like after an intense workout whether it’s like if you ran for you know whatever, like 30 minutes or 60 minutes or whatever someone may do like you’re going to have some muscle damage in your calves and quads and things like that. It’s not a big deal. It’s one of the signals for your muscles to repair and get stronger. And if you do a hard workout in the gym, you’re going to have some muscle damage. And when we have muscle damage, that’s going to lead to some central nervous system fatigue. And when we have central nervous system fatigue we can’t do as good a job at sending the signal from our grade through our spinal cord to our fast twitch fibers and telling them to recruit. And that’s a problem when we’re speed training because they’re the exact muscle fibers that we’re trying to get better at using. So that’s why we like over time when we’re past the beginner stage and getting to get hired. So we need to be a little bit smart with our speed training and learning that we need to find windows when we’re as fresh as possible to do the training. That’s probably not a huge concern for people just starting out, but definitely when people start to hit plateaus or if it’s people who train a lot, like you said, and they’re wondering why they’re not approving. It’s one of the hardest things for a motivated, let’s say, athletes or people to do is that when they’re not seeing the progress, they want is to stay back the amount they’re doing. It’s really hard and I think golf attracts a lot of, say, type A personalities because it’s hard and you need to put a lot of work into it and you know the feedback is very objective in terms of like your score and your handicap. Those people have done well in other aspects of their life, like school and business and work and things like that from working harder. It’s like if this isn’t going well, I need to work harder. And I get so many emails from people and they lay out you know, I’ve been training hard, I’ve been in the gym, I’ve been doing my speed training, I’m plateauing, I’m getting worse. Like what exercises do I need to add? Or like what are the workouts do I need to do? And it’s like show me your schedule. It’s like you know probably need to like cut out some of this stuff and take like more days of rest in between things. And it’s hard because they’re used to like but now I feel like I’m not doing enough, like how am I going to get better? But generally what it does is gives them a chance to recover between their workload, because the whole like a mechanism of training is that like this is kind of the oldest cliche there is. But like we don’t improve from the training session that we’re doing, generally we improve from the stimulus that that puts on our body and then when we recover from that is when we see the improvements. But if all we’re doing is applying the stimulus and there’s not enough time to recover. We can’t make that like step by step progression and that can get hard to figure out after a while. But that’s that’s one of the things that I would I would say is important to be mindful of. Is is if you’re serious about speed training and you’re not seeing the proper suit like is, don’t be afraid to play around with doing doing less basic. 1:04:14 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s such a great point and one that I hope the people listening take to heart, and that goes for their strength training, that goes for you know, running, walking, all of it, that you know sometimes you you can just be putting too much stress and stimulus into the body and you’re never giving it time to go through that repair and recovery period. 1:04:34 – Mike CarrollYeah, and that’s that’s also like when people start to get peaks and pains or get an injury and like injuries are by far the quickest way to derail progress, generous fitness and health or getting better at golf, because when you ask when you’re forced to take time out, there’s nothing more you know insuring and there’s nothing, obviously, that ruins consistency like an injury. So there’s there’s a certain faction of people where they struggle with the motivation to exercise Like they’re more. They struggle with actually showing up and doing it and getting into a routine. But then there is definitely a faction of people where they really struggle to not push themselves to act. They’re in the mindset that more and harder is always better than that’s also a problem. And when those people are basically given like some extra time to recover and maybe they put more of an emphasis on, like their sleep and nutrition rather than just how hard they’re doing their training sessions, that’s when they really start to make progress. But they struggle because you’re literally telling them no, like two days in this week or whatever, like your job is to is to not exercise Like I want you to do, like you can go for a walk or something like that, but I want you to stay like relaxed and give your body a chance to recover. I don’t want you doing another like hit session or I don’t want you, you know, doing an extra workout for whatever reason, like that’s just delaying the recovery and you can’t make, you can’t get benefits from it. 1:06:15 – Jeff PelizzaroTotally, mike, this has been awesome. I got a couple of questions that we ask everybody at the end of the show to wrap up here so we won’t take up too much of your time. So, just like we asked everybody on the show, caddy Shack or Happy Gilmore. 1:06:28 – Mike CarrollHappy Gilmore. 1:06:30 – Jeff PelizzaroI figured strength speed. You know, it’s all all about hitting bombs, right. 1:06:34 – Mike CarrollYeah, exactly. 1:06:36 – Jeff PelizzaroIf you could pick a walk up song to the first T-Box, what’s your song? 1:06:40 – Mike CarrollYeah, DMX X, gonna give it to ya. Nice, I just thought my Spotify rapped. You know that everybody was posting yesterday. Yeah, and two of my top number one of two songs were both DMX. 1:06:58 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t even opened mine up yet, but I’m gonna guess Zach Bryan’s probably at the top of mine, but there’s some probably 90s hip hop and rapping there for sure. Yeah, is there a book that you like to recommend to people, one that maybe you’ve read, that means a lot to you and that you tend to recommend or have shared with a lot of folks, whether it be golf, fitness or just something else. 1:07:19 – Mike CarrollI go with two for like everyday life stuff. I would say Katalina Cabots by James Clear. I think it was really good. Probably a popular answer, I’m sure, but it’s really good. And then for golf, I think that everybody every like teen golfer that’s better interested in understanding golf better and improving should read every shop counts by Mark Brody. Arguably nobody has had a bigger influence on the direction that golf has went in the last 10 years or so in Mark Brody. 1:07:56 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would totally agree with that for sure. If you could pick a dream for some celebrities, athletes, whoever it might be, that you could go play golf with who’s in your for some. 1:08:07 – Mike CarrollSo I never got to meet either of my crowd sawters and they passed before I was born. So I had picked both of those and probably Rory I’m a big Rory son. 1:08:22 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, can’t imagine. Why. 1:08:24 – Mike CarrollYeah, well, when I was so Rory is, I think, maybe two years older than me so like when I was a teenager playing in Ireland growing up, rory was kind of getting what he was. He was already famous in Ireland. He was famous in Ireland from when he was quite young and then obviously his progression was very, very fast and high. So, following him for like a long time I’d love to play with him Excellent. 1:08:52 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a bucket list course that if we said, Mike, we’re flying the 18STRONG jet, we’re taking you anywhere you want to go. We have access to go to any golf course on the planet. Where are you going? 1:09:03 – Mike CarrollI think I’d really like to play at Royal County Dau in Ireland, under the condition that we get a good day of weather. There’s so many really good courses in Ireland that I haven’t played because I moved here like shortly after college, which is kind of when it’s only there when you can start before the play, that when you kind of have your own card stuff. I got to play Cyprus Point last year, which was really cool, which is probably one of the more popular ones, and I went to the Masters last year as well to watch. So I’ve seen both of those places. I think I’ve seen some pictures of what can get out and heard reports and it looks really nice. So that’s probably top of my list right now. But I’m not a huge golf course. You know sicko. Some people are like, oh my God, have you seen this place? Or they’re really interested in like golf course architecture or layouts and stuff like that. I’m not huge for that. Like I appreciate a good one if I’m there, but I don’t really have a list of courses where I have to go play here. 1:10:10 – Jeff PelizzaroGot it All right. You obviously have a very robust social media presence. Is there a social media account that you like to follow, like to watch and this doesn’t have to be in the golf realm at all that you would recommend to the 18STRONG crew? 1:10:25 – Mike CarrollSo yeah, it’s funny. I immediately thought of, like educational ones. People who listen to this show, I think need to check out Chasing Scratch and they have a podcast, youtube channel, social media presence, their podcast in particular, chasing Scratch. I would say that people would really, really enjoy. Yeah, it’s basically about two guys in their late 30s with regular jobs, families there are never any gaps and they kind of come up with an idea one day Could we get to scratch in a year? And they start to document their progress and, yeah, it goes from there and they’re both hilarious, but it also has times where it’s serious and there’s some soul searching. That’s very good. I highly recommend it. 1:11:24 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, We’ll definitely check it out. And last piece what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 1:11:41 – Mike CarrollIt’s pretty cliche, but I saw it depends. I’m going to go with two. So number one is that you can’t get away. If you want to get really good at golf, you can’t get away from the importance of ball and striker. 1:12:00 – Jeff PelizzaroYou have to hit a lot of greens. 1:12:03 – Mike CarrollIf you look at the statistics between greens and regulation and average store hand-to-hand count, that relationship is very true. You have to get good at hitting the ball. You have to get used to making a lot of boring cheap-blood prayers. Obviously that requires a lot of work and time to put into it, but in terms of how somebody could maybe improve tomorrow is just trying to be present and actually follow the mantra of one shot at a time. What that means is that you’re not allowing how previous shots in the route have wiped or what the outcome of the upcoming shot might mean for your score or your handicap or place in the tournament affect how you approach the current shot. Hearing Try and treat each golf shot as a separate entity. Something that I try and do when I’m playing it might sound kind of weird but I guess like a land-shot or something that I have is I try and be the world’s best caddy to myself. I try and essentially talk to myself in a way that if I was working for my best friend or my player and trying to have them do as well as possible over each shot in the round, that’s kind of the way that I try and approach it. 1:13:26 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s probably helped save you from trying to make a few of those hero shots out of the trees cutting a ball around 100%, like I would say. 1:13:36 – Mike CarrollAn area where I’ve had to get better on the golf course and I still fall into a trap is getting too aggressive with second shots on pair of fives, what I’d not in a great position off the tee or there’s trouble over on the green because you’re thinking these are the holes where you should make birdie, should be up around the green in two, and then all of a sudden it can be really hard to make prayer. Scott Flossus has a product system called Decade which has some really good stuff about that for any kind of very keen golfers. 1:14:18 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, we actually just had Scott on the show just a couple of weeks ago. 1:14:22 – Mike CarrollYeah, his stuff is really really fantastic. 1:14:25 – Jeff PelizzaroReally. Yeah, it’s awesome. All right, my friend, this was awesome. I’ve been sitting and talking to you for another couple of hours, but this has been so great to finally meet you in person, kind of, and get to know you. But pick your brain a little bit and I know the 18STRONG crew is totally going to go check out all of your stuff if they’re not already on your platforms. But can’t thank you enough for the time and just keep up doing the great work, man. 1:14:48 – Mike CarrollThanks, jeff I appreciate it. 1:14:53 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Stay great hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Dylan Wu (PGA Tour Golfer)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 360Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary On this installment of the 18STRONG Podcast, join us as we sit down with PGA Tour golfer, Dylan Wu. Listen in as Dylan shares his journey from childhood golf games with his family to becoming a professional golfer. Get a glimpse into the life of a pro golfer, as Dylan gives us insight into the challenges of traveling on tour, prioritizing fitness, nutrition, and recovery, and the importance of having a solid support system – including his brother who doubles as his full-time caddy. As we navigate the complex world of professional golf, we get an inside look at how failure is often a stepping stone to success. Dylan discusses his experiences on both the Korn Ferry Tour and the PGA Tour, highlighting the significance of learning from setbacks and the mental toughness required in high-pressure situations on the course. Further along, we explore the lifestyle changes and challenges associated with transitioning from the Korn Ferry Tour to the PGA Tour, including changes in course conditions and competition levels. Wrapping up the episode, Dylan opens up about his off-season training and how he’s constantly working on improving his golf swing and overall performance. He also discusses the critical role of fitness and nutrition in his career, and how it contributes to his performance on the course. Finally, Dylan reveals his love for golf literature, his dream celebrity foursomes, and bucket list golf courses, as well as sharing some invaluable advice for success. So whether you’re a golf enthusiast or just love a good success story, this episode with Dylan Wu is one you don’t want to miss. Main Topics (00:03) Interview With Dylan Wu PGA Tour golfer Dylan Wu shares his journey, experiences, and support system, including his brother as his caddy and first tour win. (13:46) Learning From Failure in Golf Professional golfer’s experiences on Korn Ferry and PGA Tour, learning from failures, visualizations, and differences in competition level. (17:49) Golf Conditions and Tour Travel Changes PGA Tour vs. Korn Ferry Tour: Course conditions, competition level, travel logistics, and upcoming schedule changes for professional golfers. (28:24) Improving Golf Swing and Performance Off-season training for professional golfers focuses on improving mobility, posture, and swing changes, while also mastering skills for tournament performance. (34:26) Playing Golf Golfers of varying skill levels discuss swing thoughts, visualizing shots, and practicing effectively on the course. (46:01) Fitness and Nutrition in Golf Importance Fitness, nutrition, and mental benefits in golf, including MyFitnessPal app, warm-up exercises, and preference for Caddyshack. (52:54) Book Recommendations and Dream Golf Courses Professional golfer Dylan Wu recommends books on the mental side of golf, shares dream celebrity foursome and discusses bucket list golf courses and favorite golf shoes. (01:00:39) The Key to Success Professional golfer Dylan Wu shares insights on hard work, humility, and leaving it all on the course, with the help of 18STRONG. Follow Dylan Wu Instagram: @dylan_wu59 Twitter: @Dylan_Wu59 Links Mentioned True Linkswear MyFitnessPal Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 360 with Dylan Wu, pga Tour golfer. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everyone deserves to play better, longer. In today’s episode we are interviewing Dylan Wu, pga Tour golfer, and we get a chance to talk to him about really him working his way onto the tour from Northwestern University through the Canadian Tour, corn Fairy Tour, all the way up to the PGA Tour. We talk about his challenges, his successes and even some stories about him and his having his brother on the bag as his caddy which he’s now his full-time caddy, but some funny stories from when he first started out. And then we’re going to talk about his fitness and his nutrition and really the lifestyle that he lives on the PGA Tour Lot of travel, lot of situations where he has to really plan out what he’s doing, and so his work on his fitness game, his nutrition and really recovery is very, very important to him. So we’re going to talk about all that in this episode with Dylan. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, Dylan Wu. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. 0:02:05 – Dylan WuThanks for having me, guys. 0:02:06 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure, man. This is exciting. I’m really excited to talk to you about your career on the Korn Ferry tour the last couple years on the PGA Tour, and we were just kind of catching up about you starting out playing golf at such a young age, like three years old. So give us a little background on you and your history with your family and playing golf with your dad, and then we’ll jump into the rest of the career. 0:02:28 – Dylan WuYeah, so I grew up in Southern Oregon, a town called Medford, pretty close to the border of California, the oldest of four. But yeah, when I was born my dad started learning the game of golf and I have pictures of myself when I was one or two on the button green. I don’t remember them, but it happened and my earliest memory I remember is just carrying a set of Snoopy clubs to the range of my dad. But the one thing cool thing is my brothers are twin brothers, 16 months younger than me and they both played college golf. I played golf in Northwestern. Jeremy, who actually Caddys for me now, played golf at Valparaiso, and then my other brother played golf at the Air Force. And then my sister just graduated this past spring from Lipscomb University in Nashville. So we have four D1 golfers in the family, which is pretty cool. 0:03:33 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So I mean, obviously you guys played a ton of golf together and then your brother now is on the bag and has been cadding for you for the last few years. We had some technical difficulties, so you actually just told me the story, but I’m gonna ask you to go ahead and tell it again about you bringing your brother on the bag and what that was like. 0:03:49 – Dylan WuYeah. So I was on the Korn Ferry. This is back in 2021. I actually just qualified for the US Open and he was still working for Ernst Young in tax and accounting and he came to watch me at the US Open as a fan Boosing and just watching golf and having a good time. And I was kind of going in a different direction with my caddy and I wanted to kind of get a little more confidence in my own ability and own decision-making. So I kind of wanted to have Jeremy work one week the following week after the US Open, just carrying the bag and keeping it chill and just having good time. I also remember like told him I’d pay all his expenses at the beginning and then give him a percentage and like Maine is like the most expensive place, he’s eating lobster like 24-7. I’m like this is not a good deal for me but we end up playing pretty well. That week Finished 15th and I was like, okay, let’s caddy for a little bit. So three weeks later, playing in Springfield Missouri, his fourth week on the bag, we end up winning the tournament, which is unreal my only win on a PTA Tour sanctioned event today. But I remember a funny moment on Sunday. It was around this part three. I’m like there’s four holes left. I have a two-shot lead. And I’m like, what are you doing? You’re not even helping get a yardage. You need to do something. You’re just standing there and I’m like, dude, we’re four holes from winning. Like just let’s get through this. And he’s like, oh yeah, I probably should do something. And I even look at the notes from that week when we won and other weeks when he first started cadding for me and it’s like the most basic notes possible. It’s like right side good, left side bad. It’s like no notes of the wind or where the pin location is, how far I was hitting it. I’m just like, yeah, you basically were useless that week but we won. We actually just came out with a golf diadis article in October and I tell that story and the first review. I say that Jeremy was useless, but they didn’t really say anything after that. He’s way better at cadding now, but they kind of just left it like that. So I’m like, oh, you guys should probably say that he’s actually a good caddy now. 0:06:34 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, he’s actually getting better yeah. 0:06:37 – Dylan WuSo the chemistry now is really good. But yeah, having your brother on the bag is definitely very unique. The one thing is you can be very transparent and honest, which is good or bad sometimes, because sometimes you just want to yell at your brother, Like I’m the big brother, I’m like he’s my little brother and I’m the boss. So like yeah, you should listen to me, I’ll just yell at you. Talking to some other players, like Harry Higgs has his brother on the bag and we played with Harry one time and he just told me, like if anything goes wrong, I just want to kill Al, his caddy and brother. So it’s kind of the same way. Sometimes you just yell at your brother just to yell at them. But the one thing about your brother is that you can say anything to them. They’re always going to not take it personally and going to be there for no matter what. Like just wants the best for you. So that’s the one thing that’s been going good. Like honestly, my career has been slowly just going up and our chemistry has been just getting better. 0:07:40 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, obviously you guys are good buddies. Has it ever gotten a little heated out there? 0:07:45 – Dylan WuOh hundreds on. Yeah, I mean the stuff you hear between players and caddies. It’s like players are psycho. It’s like sometimes caddy just has to be a punching bag. Like you might be blaming the caddy, but like sometimes the caddy can do anything wrong and you just want to yell at them. You just need somebody to take it, because if you just bottle it inside it’s not going to turn out well. So sometimes I’m just like Jeremy. I’m like just don’t take it personal and just like sometimes just be pissed off and like just let just take it. But there’s times in the beginning where Jeremy is a little stubborn and I’m like he’s like talking back. I’m like why are you talking back? Do you think any other caddy is talking back? 0:08:26 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s a different dynamic, having your little brother and because, yeah, I can just picture me and my little brother out on the course and him, you know, spitting it back, but then being the boss and being like, no, like you have to listen to me right now, this is the way this goes. So, as you came out of Northwestern University and then played some Canadian tour, I believe, but then got onto the corn fairy tour, I know that you had a situation where and this was in that article, because I read that article just this past week about where you missed a five foot putt in a Monday qualifier and kind of like really had you kind of put some things into perspective, what happened there and then what was the trajectory from there to you mentioned. Then you won in Springfield, right, but Yomo, I think in the article you said that you know that really helped push you along because you were so close and then just kind of helped move you forward into having more desire to get out there and win. 0:09:24 – Dylan WuFor sure. Now I look at it, it was maybe a lowest point I’ve been in my golf career. Just because TurnPro in 2018, played in Canada, played decent, did Q-School, made it to Final Stage, which is a good big deal, but didn’t get guaranteed starts, finished like 85th at Final Stage. So I conditional set no status going into 2019. So I had to do a bunch of Monday qualifiers in the beginning of the year and I was in Kansas City. My game was feeling good, I was in the 844 playoffs and the second or third playoff hole I have a five footer to keep on going and it would have been a 3 for 2. After that and the guys who made par like were spraying it in the trees, like getting a little lucky, and I was like, okay, make this, we’ll be fine. And I remember hitting it and leaving it short and I’m like what the hell? I remember. So I literally tapped in, shook everybody’s hand, walked to the car, put my bag in the back of the rental car, closed it drove out like calmly, and as soon as I turned out of the clubhouse, I just remember just yelling and just like slamming my head into the steering wheel and just like thinking to myself like what am I doing? Like what? This isn’t even fun. Like this sucks. Like you can’t even get through a Monday qualifier. Or like when you’re playing well, it’s like every opportunity matters. I was like gosh, but it just shows that Monday qualifiers suck. It’s like it’s a very unique part of professional golf. It’s like one day just shoot out, like golf is four rounds, consistency and like every whole matters. But like if you don’t get off to a good start on Monday qualifier, you’re just like gone. Like anybody can play well on one day, especially on a Monday qualifier courses because they’re usually easier versus in a tour event in harder conditions, under four rounds. So before it still gave me a lot of confidence, but I remember that moment. I was just like this sucks. And honestly, a month later I ended up getting into the cornfield event in Springfield, illinois my second ever cornfield event and I shoot 65, 63 on the weekend getting a playoff. And then I lose on the third playoff hole to the guy who was number two on the points list and he made a 25 footer for birdie. So I went from having conditional status to having full status and being in the rest of the season. So that was huge. Yeah, it just yeah, that was. That was very huge. And then kept my card going into 2020. So, at full status, going to 2020 on the cornfield, and I started the season awesome. And if it wasn’t for COVID, I would have got my tour card in 2020. Oh, really. But because, yeah, because of COVID nobody graduated and there was two years on tour. So instead of finishing in the top 25 after 25 events, you have to do it after 45 events, which is 10 times harder. Yeah, it takes so many more points. It was so hard and that’s why that Springfield, missouri, was the end of 2021. So then I got my tour card in the fall of 2021. And now I’ve just finished my second year on tour. 0:13:10 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome and you had an event in the Bahamas, I think it was, where you said that you had a seven shot lead. You kind of let that drift away a little bit. But what I thought was really cool in the interview that you were talking about this is that you said that the ability for you to have I think it was maybe a bad a rough Saturday where you lost the lead but then you were able to grind back and get to a T2. And it sounded like you really took a lot away from that fact that you were in the lead, you were able to go low, didn’t quite win, but you were able to kind of bounce back. Is that right? 0:13:45 – Dylan WuYeah, 100%. So first event of 2020, we’re in Bahamas, exuma. It’s like the windiest place on earth and for some reason the first two days I just black out 11 under par, cuts like five over. I have a seven shot lead and it’s like probably one of the worst places to have a seven shot lead because it’s just so windy and there’s trouble everywhere. I just lost it really easily, not even like hitting that bad of shots and I was just like that’s tough, but I lost it after like the first four or five holes on Saturday and then could have easily melted and finished like what 25th, the 30th and just bad week, but kind of just hung in there and just grind it and then like every point matters on the corn for it when you’re trying to get your tour card. So finishing T2 was huge and it just gave me a lot of experience from that moment, like I’ve never been in that position before and I just learned a lot and I think that really helped me moving forward a year and a half later to winning in Springfield Missouri when I had the second opportunity and the Springfield Missouri was actually kind of new too, because I’ve never held a 74 hole lead and I think just the experiences when you fail or you just don’t win, like you just learned so much more from those and then, yeah, that just kind of helped me just catapult to the PGA Tour and, honestly, just like all the failures you have or the struggles you have, as long as you learn from them, you’ll only get better. Like, whether you’re hitting a golf shot or arounds, like as long as you see every shot or everything as an experience into your memory bank, like that you’re always learning. Whether I miss the cut or I play really well, it’s all about moving forward and helping you get better for the next time. 0:15:46 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you ever find yourself drawing on those moments like legitimately in an event, or like you know, like I got to hit a great seven iron here. Do you ever flash back to like shots that you’ve hit with that seven iron or different situations that you’ve been in that are similar to that, where you know like, hey, I’ve done this before. 0:16:04 – Dylan WuYeah, I don’t necessarily remember images of hitting it before, but having like a positive visual image or a memory or just bring it back, it really helps. Like I’ve been here before, like you said, is what I tell myself you’ve been here, you can do this, you can do this, whether you’re hitting a five footer to win a tournament or to make the cut. It’s like you’ve hit this putz so many times in practice. It’s just like you have to execute it in tournament atmosphere, which is way harder. So just anything you can draw on from experiences where it’s good or bad, and it’s very helpful, like I think, when, whatever your failures, and then the next time you’re in it you can be like this is what happened last time, like what I think went wrong, and let’s just focus a little more on like trying to not do that. Yeah, I try to do better, but yeah, all of those experiences are just. I mean, I’m 27, but I feel like I’ve had so many experiences already and I can’t even believe guys who have been playing till like they’re 60 and have like 25 years on tour and it’s just so much experience and it’s like sometimes getting mad and getting frustrated like doesn’t make sense, like what’s the worst thing that’s going to happen? 0:17:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’re going to hit another golf shot, so yeah, what’s been the biggest change from corn fairy tour to the PGA tour as far as like the, from the competitive level? Because obviously the guys on the corn fairy tour I mean we’re seeing incredible athleticism, incredible golfers. I mean we see guys coming from the corn fairy tour, straight from the corn fairy tour winning in some of these events. What have you noticed has been a big, bigger change from one to the other. 0:17:53 – Dylan WuHonestly, like a really big change is the golf courses and the conditioning. Let’s say like the PGA tour can kind of choose where they want to play every week. Like you’re playing in an area at the best time of the year, perfect conditions or at least ideal for court setup, like rough can be long, firm, it might be windy, but like it’s just, it’s just way more pure conditions versus on the corn fairy it’s a little more wet, greens are softer, less rough, and it’s kind of just score Like until you get to the PGA tour. Like college golf is closer to the PGA tour than corn fairy, almost because you play better courses in college than you do on the corn fairy. Like if a course is not hosting their PGA tour event, they want to host their alma mater. People love their schools, they want to. So like the college events I played in college you play Aaron Hills, olympia Fields, tpc, harding Park. I mean you play every. You play every cool course because people love college golf. Yeah, they don’t like mini tours and corn fairy events as much, but that’s I’d say the biggest is the setup and yeah, the level is just so razor thin, like I honestly talking to especially guys that play on both tours, like older guys who’ve experienced a lot on the PGA tour and now are playing on the corn fairy a little bit. It’s just like it’s so thin. It’s just like all about playing well at the right time, like that’s what golf is. It’s like anybody can go go hit a good shot, but can you hit it under pressure when it matters the most, like can you get through Q school when it matters the most to further your career? Career, you make the cut. You play well in the back then to make the cut, just like everybody can do it when they’re practicing, but can you do it when it matters the most and it’s just small stuff. And then being a rookie on the PGA tour is hard because you’re seeing everything for the first time. You really do feel like a rookie when you don’t even know where to register, like my rookie year, like where is parking, like what do I do? Just the small stuff. And then now I’m going to be finishing my second year, starting next year. I remember my second year was just so comfortable and basically you’re going to play all these tournaments the third time. There’s a few tournaments that I’m going to be playing for the first time, which will be super exciting. But being comfortable is also a huge part, like when you’re playing at a new place, where they’re on the Korn Ferry, on the PGA tour. Seeing something the first time, you’re a little uncomfortable. Once you have one tournament, or even one round, you’re just way more comfortable. 0:20:49 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and hopefully your brother took better notes the first time around than he used to. 0:20:54 – Dylan WuYeah, seriously, oh brutal. 0:20:58 – Jeff PelizzaroHow has the travel these days now? Because obviously, being on the tour, you’ve got your schedule laid out a little bit more. And if you could even talk a little bit about the end of the year, what the fall season was like, and then moving into next year, what do you have access to being in? I think you were finished 86 then FedEx Cup points yeah. 0:21:21 – Dylan WuIt’s so unique right now with the PGA tour because everything is changing. Like my rookie year was two years ago and it’s not even close the same as this year and next year is going to be different. Yeah, like I finished 86 after the Wyndham Championship and I usually would get into the playoffs and the playoffs were top 70. And now these fall series are finalizing the top 125s when in the past it’s the beginning of the season. So it’s so weird. Like I remember playing these fall events in the fall and I’m like this doesn’t seem part of the same season. And this past season we basically had two falls, so you had the fall of 22 and the fall of 23 in the same season and then we’ll start January calendar year in 2024 season. But, to answer your question, like the lifestyle and the traveling is very busy. I’m really looking forward to next year because it’ll be the first year we’re going to kind of plan and pick my schedule At least the normal regular full side PJ Tour events, because the designated events next year are all going to be small fields. So if you’re not a top player and didn’t finish in the top 50 in the FedEx Cup this past year, you won’t be in the designated events you kind of can play your way into if you’re playing well. So it’s just nice to know like I don’t have to play any Monday qualifiers like this past season on the PJ Tour I basically barely kept status after my rookie year because of the guys that went to live. I struggled my rookie year and I finished in the conditional category, won 26 to 150. And honestly, like kept status by one shot, like two points, two FedEx Cup points over the season, which is one shot at some point. Like I play. I felt like I played horrible that first year but like every shot matters, like I was one shot away from going back to the corn fairy and luckily, with those guys going to live, I kept status on tour and I was able to play my way into bigger events out of the conditional category. And the conditional category this year sucked because you don’t even know you’re in tournaments Like you might be in alternate. Then you get in on Tuesday or Wednesday you might have to finish your tournament, play well, finish 15, like one shot out to the top 10, and then go catch a flight to do the Monday qualifier for the next week because you’re like second alternate. So it’s like the unknown stuff and the travel logistics that kind of sucked this year. But at the same time I was one shot away from going back to the corn fairy and I literally that one shot. I turned it into a really solid season on the PGA tour where I finished 86. Like, I think, my rookie year, I played 30 events, maybe just under, and I made like 13 or 14 cuts, and then this year I made 21 with a lot more better results. I mean, yeah, the first year was a struggle for sure, but I’m just looking forward next year to just knowing I’m in the field. I don’t have to check it all the time. Now I can see who’s in the field at the end. It just makes it easier to schedule stuff. I can plan something for, say, like John Deere Classic next year already now. I can plan for the fall next year if I want to. So, like going forward, I hope I can just plan my schedule all the time because that’s what the big guy’s going to do and I haven’t really had the opportunity yet. So I’m looking forward to that. But I’m definitely not going to take it for granted, because you just got to keep on working hard Until you really win on the PGA tour, your job’s not really secure. So yeah, I mean I love having a time this off season to rest because it’s been a busy year, but I’m excited to get back going in January and just keep it going. It’s awesome to be on the PGA tour. Sometimes the golf’s the easiest part. The travel, the lifestyle just being constantly on the road is probably the worst part. But there’s no better feeling than playing inside the ropes, hitting shots under pressure, like in front of the most fans possible, like. Some of the coolest moments this year were on Saturday at the Players’ Championship On 17,. I hit first in the group, hits like eight feet First time I hit the green. The first three days I hit like on the fringe and then in the bunker. The first two days Hits eight feet. But it’s like four o’clock on Saturday, place is pretty buzzing. I hit a pretty good shot, cheer in and then my buddy Aaron Ryze, playing right behind me, oh right, no. Ting next in the same group Makes a hole in one and it was just one of the sickest moments that I didn’t even hit a shot. But I was like Holy shit, this is so cool, like the place is buzzing. Luckily I already hit my shot. Glad I didn’t have to go next. But luckily I made birdie. But that was a cool moment. I mean really cool moments this year. I couldn’t imagine, like at the beginning of the year, like these things happening, like I just had such a big increase to playing well on my second year than the first year, like I shot 61 this year at the American Express, 11 under I made an Albatross and rocket mortgage from 262 yards. I had to play with John Rom at the US Open. But that’s the one thing too is like I want I want to play against the best players in the world and see how I stack up against. So, like every time I’m playing in a big event, I want to play. I want to get paired with somebody who’s a big name. It’s just to watch them and just also learn and see how my game compares. That’s what you want. You want to play against the best. And yeah, I’m just looking forward to next year for sure, just trying to get better every year. Luckily, my career has kind of been slowly going up and up, so I hope I could just keep on getting better and better, and that’s all you can ask for. 0:27:31 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what does that look like this offseason? Because that sounds like you had a little more time to kind of relax, recover a little bit. But I know you’re working with Adam and fitness wise and putting in a lot of time and effort. What does the fitness side look like? What are you working on golf wise? How does that play out right now? 0:27:47 – Dylan WuYeah, yeah, 100%. Like right now it’s nice to have a little offseason, so like right now I’m kind of addressing some of the stuff I need to improve fitness wise and then also technical wise in every part of my game, like, say, fitness right now One of the things we analyzed is that like I did a really good job of take care of my body the whole year and working out and feeling good, nothing hurting, and everything like that, and I feel like I’m strong enough to hit the ball far if I want to. But to help me gain speed this offseason it’s kind of just do things that are going to help my deficiencies and like one of the things is my overhead mobility. Like for some reason, like growing up kind of had bad posture. Growing up I wish my parents like told me, told me the stance rate, or like when I was like eight, not when I was like 16. But like my overhead mobility is not as great. So like really even like straightening my arm here it’s like really hard to do, like even the basic stuff. So like I think that’s why in my swing, sometimes when I get to the top, it’s a little harder to hold and stabilize or like pause Sometimes, like when I’m working on something, you want to slow it down, you want to pause. It’s really hard. So I’m trying to do a lot of like more corrective stuff, like that posture stuff, like I’m doing some kind of glute strength and just small stuff versus like heavy lifting, because I do a decent amount of that during the season and I feel like my strength isn’t the problem in the gym, it’s more making sure I’m being doing the right stuff to create speed and it’s kind of correcting the deficiencies a little bit. And I feel like I’m doing strength, making sure not just being able to like, say, squat, but able to like put my leg against the wall where I’m like in a position where I can’t use any other muscles to compensate, and like use strictly glute Like. I feel like my body is good at cheating yeah, cheating. And so like trying to make it where it’s really hard and your brain kind of works a lot, basically doing corrective exercises the past week where I spend like not even that much time but like 15-20 minutes, but it’s like very brain heavy versus like working out and doing a lot of exercise where it’s golf exercises, like rotation stuff, like that. But I know it’s not going to help me as much, as if I can get a little more range of motion in my upper body and like maybe it helps me hold the club a little stronger here or helps make it help my posture, helps me get less maybe kinks in my neck over the season, just from golf. You’re just so rounded all the time but just doing that stuff. And then on this on the technical side, I saw my coach on Monday. He came to Scott, still from Chicago, just doing more block practice right now. And one thing we’re trying to change my backswing a little bit. It’s getting getting a little deep in the cross now. It’s kind of hooking the ball too much. It feels more laid off and more in front of me. So it doesn’t feel great because I’m like the club’s like pointed this way. But it’s crazy thing with golf is like you try to change something in your swing and it feels so different and it’s like you may, you may be changed, the club like this much. Yeah, you just got exaggerated so much to make changes and that’s the one thing right now with an offseason, you can actually make changes and embrace it. So, like I’m, the process right now is like when I hit balls in practice and just try to do the motion right, like just getting comfortable doing that, not really caring where the ball goes. Right now it takes more like I played golf in Oregon the last two days with my brother and my dad but I didn’t really care where the golf balls going, because I’m trying to work on this stuff, because of I it doesn’t matter, I’m just playing with my buddies and stuff like that, but I want it to matter when it when I’m playing in the Sony and I start off in January. So you just want to embrace the change, because a lot of time in the middle of the season, it’s a lot of maintenance. You can’t really make changes, like on Tuesday and you’re trying to change your swing thoughts and you think it’s going to, you’re going to trust on Thursday or Friday. It’s just so hard. So this is a time where this week I’ll do a little block practice and then basically a little before Christmas is when I’ll ramp back into like tournament prep, hitting shots, executing, practicing more no one say practice with a purpose, but like mastery and just doing things that’s going to help me perform better and execute and get ready. Get ready for a tournament versus making this swing look pretty Right to make sure it’s functional. 0:32:45 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah. So like kind of getting a little bit more into almost like games, game kind of situations where you got it, I got to hit this shot, or I got it, I got it. You know, dial in your distances and things like that For sure. 0:32:56 – Dylan WuYeah, just doing like drills for mastery and just try to get better. And then when you do those drills and you’re so you’re doing track men drills, hitting numbers, hitting the shot shapes you want, and like doing putting drills, working on your speed, pulling out a lot Then it makes golf just normal golf easier. You’re just Making your practice more tournament like. 0:33:24 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their formula one post workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym Working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the formula one, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym, but also, if you don’t know if you’re gonna be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1st Phorm dot com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula one protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is gonna be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1st Phorm dot com forward slash 18STRONG. I got a question for you, since you were just out playing with your buddies. When, when you’re playing with your buddies I mean, are they all different calibers of golfer? And when you’re out there, like what are the things that you see them do? That you’re like dude, that’s just, that’s just silliness that you’re, that you’re trying that yeah, no, it’s funny. 0:34:45 – Dylan WuI put with a lot of Normal players and pro-am, so whatever. Like I put with my brother, cat is race is a good golfer now. He’s actually better now that he was in college, which is hilarious, probably just from watching good golf. Try to think of the things that people do. It’s just, it’s really. It’s for me, it’s like if I see them swing one or two times, like I can, I can give him a pretty good tip and make it pretty simple and it helps them and they’re like surprised, like oh wow, it worked. I’m like, yeah, I know what I’m doing. Guys do this for a living. Like I can help you. Um, but just a small things I tell people, like when I do clinics or like I teach a little bit, say, if we’re like a Northwestern outing for my coach, like some small things that I try to do to help people are like go on the range and Hit the shots are actually gonna hit on the golf course because most people just play the course that they’re playing All the time. It’s like you know what you’re gonna hit, why you gonna hit. What you name is five iron. When you’re not gonna had five or when you’re playing Just makes no sense, right, I mean you might feel better but you’re not gonna hit that shot. So just practice like you’re gonna play a little and it makes it simple. It’s like just hit a few drivers and then put a lot chip. Probably not gonna hit every green, but it’s just funny watching a People play and like the stuff they say after it. It’s like I knew that was, it’s gonna go right. I’m like you guys are mental midgets kind of exactly yeah, like it’s like it’s gonna go right. I’m like how about we hit this left? Like people think that pros Don’t worry about like out of bounds or water, which is not true at all. Like I’m on a team like don’t. There’s. Some thoughts were like a don’t top this, like I can hit a bad shot. But it’s like I Acknowledge what’s out there, like the trees that abounds or the water, and I’m just like, okay, I’m gonna aim at this tree, I’m gonna hit this shot this way and see that I’m right here. The winds, here it’s gonna be. Now you’re just so focused on the shot you’re trying to hit that Hopefully you execute it decently well, but most of the time you won’t hit it out of bounds or in the water. You’re likely to hit in the water and out of bounds when you’re thinking about it, but also sometimes when you’re Pretending like you’re not, like oh, it’s not there, but then deep down there, it’s Behind, it’s just there. It’s like when you’re hitting a shot and like, oh, you know, I acknowledge in the water, like oh, it’s an easy hole, I’m like just Full-shitting yourself. 0:37:28 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, totally. When you’re out there, are you? Do you feel like at at your level and most of the pros out there? I guess you can’t speak for anybody else, but when you’re playing, are you ever Thinking swing thoughts? Or have you found it a way to really visualize your shot, feel the shot, pay attention to the shot, not so much what’s going on with the mechanics of your swing? 0:37:48 – Dylan WuI wish I could just Think the shot I want to hit and hit it. Like that’s one of my best friends, davis Riley, who’s a really good player on tour. I Just joke with him. He stripes it. I’m like, yeah, your swing thoughts are turn turn. That’s not everybody at all. I’ve always been a player that like has to have a few swing thoughts to play well. But it’s like not letting those swing thoughts like you have to control the shot you’re trying to hit. You got to feel like you have like ownership over it. Don’t just like, oh, I put this club in this position and I did that right and the shot turned out bad. Like no, let’s have, let’s have a little control and like Feel like you can hit this shot this way by doing this, you know. So I think that’s how I do it. Like I visualize shot I wanted a high cut. I’d be like, oh, did I cut? I need to make sure I do this backswing a little better for the hand. My hands are a little higher top Because I get the club a little more on plane. I don’t think like Because it gets more on plan. I’m just like I know if I have my hands higher here at laid off, it’s gonna easier to cut the ball. But I’m always a firm believer there’s like a few good swing thoughts that helps, just helps you keep it simple and have something to think about to produce the shot you want to hit. Because I mean, I had Thousand times more balls than other people and if they’re just like, imagine the shot and then just swinging, probably not gonna turn out exactly perfect every time, you got to practice quite a bit, but if you, if you know what you need to do to produce that shot, then you just focus on that a little bit and more or not it’s gonna get closer to hitting that shot, like when players slice it. I’m like let’s swing towards first base Like everybody plays baseball. Let’s get this underneath and swing right Like people. You understand that you need to swing right to draw the ball and you swing right To cut the ball and you swing left to cut the ball, which is weird. So Just small things like that. 0:39:57 – Jeff PelizzaroNow, you played hockey grown up in and I believe that it took a little while to get your slap shot out of your golf swing. Is that what I heard? 0:40:05 – Dylan WuFor sure. I think a lot of my golf swing is from a hot, like I’m a very shallow, very open rotation, like I gained speed. When I think of a speed in my swing, I don’t think like arms or like pushing up anything, I think just rotating, and it’s probably just because I opened up for a one-timer, that’s, I was a right defenseman and then every time I was on a faceoff on the right side of the zone I Would be ready for a slap shot and that’s probably why I have a really weak hand left-hand grip Because of just your stick, that versus like clothes. So a lot of it comes from hockey. I mean, that’s what, deep down on, like God, I wish I had a normal grip, like a more conventional swing. But you got a note you got to figure out which, what makes you play good golf and your golf DNA and like what makes your golf swing good, like the stuff that you grew up doing well, and your swing is probably what’s gonna be good the rest of your life. But yeah, hockey, hockey was great, it was. It was so fun. My brothers that played good way to get anger out Versus golf at backfires pretty quickly. But the one thing I loved about golf more was that like it’s all on yourself. It’s like the highs are high but the lows are low, because you have nobody else to rely on. You have a caddy but you don’t have teammates to pass the puck to To like bail you out. And I was. I was a good hockey, like really good hockey player, my brothers and I were, and I was like the captain of the team. But I would just I’d be a little mean to other players because like you guys can do better, come on like let’s, let’s do your job. But I think that’s why I love golf so much, because it’s all on myself and I’m not afraid to tell myself Like I can do it, but I can. I’m not also I’m afraid to tell myself like that was a terrible golf shot, like it’s got to be honest with yourself. So it’s that blend. 0:42:07 – Jeff PelizzaroAs you’re kind of ramping up in this offseason. You’re working on your fitness. You know you’re working on some of the block practice stuff, working on the golf game. I know that nutrition has been a big thing for you too. What are you focusing on nutrition-wise? How has that played an impact in your game? And, I would assume, when you’re traveling, that can be a big deal too 100%. 0:42:29 – Dylan WuYeah, I’ve been fortunate enough to surround myself with a good team, whether that’s my trainer, sports psychologist, my golf coach, but also I have a great sponsor in my fitness pal. They’ve been great with me. It’s been just coming up on two years. It’s the number one diet I’m tracking up in the country, just so easy for me to kind of track what I’m eating and make sure I’m eating healthy. But also making sure I’m hitting my calorie goals, because, honestly, when I’m walking around a golf I’m bringing a lot of calories. I might be working out in the gym before I even play. This is like I mean, every week I’m walking 9 to 100 holes. So making sure I’m hitting the calorie goals, like the macros, making sure I’m eating enough protein, just doing the small stuff, like making sure I’m supplying myself on the course with good snacks to keep my energy up. If I do all these things along with my fitness, then I know when I say perform badly, I’m not just performing badly because of my fitness or nutrition. That’s not a reason. And I feel like that’s a good component because you want to know why you struggle and you want it to just be basically golf. You don’t want it because you’re sleeping bad or eating bad, or feeling bad or injured, like if it’s golf. That’s why golf is sometimes the easiest part. My fitness has been great. It’s just so easy. I travel, go to grocery stores and then you can scan stuff so easily in the app and it goes right in there. I can just track what I eat really easily. I think for normal amateurs people don’t snack enough on the golf course and as a pro it’s hard to do too. Luckily I have a caddy that helps me tell me when to eat. Half his job is like all right, we’re at the turn, we’re at every six holes, let’s eat some food, or you need a snack, you need to drink water. You’re sweating a lot Like electrolytes. It’s just so important, I think. Just the fitness and taking care of your body whether that’s eating healthy or working out more or making yourself feel better by just doing a lot of mobility and stretching it’s just so important in our career, just because we’re constantly traveling, like in airplanes, driving, you’re just constantly on your feet and it’s just it’s kind of busy. So if I can kind of keep everything routine and just do the right stuff, especially when I’m on the road, that’s all I can ask for. And then I definitely I’m a big foodie, so I don’t have the greatest diet, especially a holiday season right now. Like I love to eat different foods and everything like that. But when I’m at tournaments I’m definitely a little more disciplined, like eat a good breakfast and lunch, especially when I’m playing, because that’s I just want to make sure that I’m not feeling bad or anything because I’m eating a bad meal. Like most of the time I’m eating breakfast on the road, I’m eating like an omelet with a bunch of veggies, a smoothie with protein and like spinach and stuff like that, and then some sausage or bacon, some protein or hot blood eggs, and for lunch I’m a lot of salads with salmon or chicken. Then dinner time is when I like mix it up. But I mean sometimes, when you finish around and it’s dark, just go straight to Chipotle and get a chicken bowl. That’s. That’s a go to that every, every loves. But yeah, my, my sponsor, my fitness has been great and for me, like I want to play golf for a long time and taking care of my body is a it’s a big thing and I just want to make sure that I can stay healthy, like Tiger’s playing this week Will’s out of sources coming back. He’s Will and I are the same age and he’s been out for seven months and he’s one of the best players in the world. If I can go my entire career without any problems or being basically being injured, free and healthy with no health problems, that’s all I can ask for. Yeah, so it’s just been been great to have a good team of sponsors, where it’s my trainer or my golf instructor all the way to all the sponsors are represented, and my family my wife it’s just been takes a whole team to to live in the crazy world of golf. 0:46:57 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:46:58 – Dylan WuEspecially right now. It’s really crazy. 0:47:01 – Jeff PelizzaroThere’s so many different things to manage right, and I don’t think that people give their nutrition and their hydration enough credit to how much that really impacts their game. As far as just making decisions or being and you know, most of us are playing 18 holes of golf not for, you know, not a full week of golf and for very competitive rounds, but even through the course of 18 holes or playing, going on a guy’s golf trip or something like that, where you know it just messes with your decisions, it messes with your fatigue and your ability to hit shots when you want to hit shots. And then, regarding my fitness pal, because I’ve used it quite a bit, I think that everybody benefits from track, like tracking the calories, at least some point in their lifetime to just understand, like, what am I really taking into my body? You know, here at 18th round, we’re all about fitness and health and nutrition and so a lot of our listeners are looking to get in better shape and lose weight and it’s like, well, if you don’t know what you’re taking in and you don’t know, you know what you’re expending, you’re kind of, you know, just shooting at it, shooting missiles in the air and not really understanding it. 0:48:05 – Dylan WuA hundred percent. I feel like when I use the app. It was a lot of knowledge I learned in the beginning, like how easy it is to eat unhealthy sometimes and like if I just do just simple stuff like I don’t know, just eat good food, there’s plenty of good food out there that’s healthy for you, that’s good tasting and just hydrating is just a huge part of it. But my fitness pal does a great job because you can kind of do everything with fitness, like your calories, losing weight, researching foods all under the same umbrella, which is great, yeah. So I’m proud to be an ambassador for them and I’m hoping I can stay healthy and fit for a long time. I mean, hopefully in a couple of years I will. I can be super fit like Camille of Ajegous he’s probably a perfect example of it but I’m a big foodie and I love enjoying different and sometimes I have a sweet tooth, but I just know taking care of your body is just so important. I think it’s really good for mental health too. Like you just feel better Sometimes. I always joke. This is like my slogan. Like the players challenge you, they’re like what’s your slogan? I’m like my slogan is like eat well, play well. It’s not necessarily eat healthy all the time, but it’s like eat good and you’ll play well. It’s like also feel well, feel good and you might play better. I mean sometimes it’s placebo effect. Like sometimes, if you think something’s making you feel better, you’re actually going to play better. Yeah, I mean, you’re not going to play worse by eating healthier. I’ll tell you that I think that burger on the turn is probably not going to help or that hot dog on the turn. But like when the couple snacks I carry all the time in my bag are like nuts are super easy jerky. I think it’s like go macro bars that a lot of players and caddies like to use Fruit banana. There’s some people who are players I’ve seen in the past who are very extreme. Like one guy carried a whole orange bell pepper. I’m like what are we doing? I’m like that’s a little extra. But yeah, probably nutrition is just so important. It’s just like, yeah, for me I just want to feel good when I’m getting to the golf course, like if I had 30 minutes I don’t know if I said this before, but if I had 30 minutes before around a golf and it’s going to the range without any warm up in the gym or spending 30 minutes in the gym and then rolling to the first tee. It’s probably 50-50 on what I’d rather do, because I feel so good warming up and activating the muscles that I need to swing well, when I get to the range in the tournament I feel good right away, versus, say, your junior golfer, you’re a weekend four, you just roll up, you’re like the first couple swings kind of sucks, my body is hurting, and just doing small stuff really helps. I travel with bands and I put my bands in my golf bag when I’m playing for fun with buddies, just because, even if I don’t have time to do some fitness stuff before, I can do some small stuff to make my body feel more stable, more flexible and swing the ball better. 0:51:35 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it makes a huge difference Just getting everything activated, getting it loose and ready to go. All right, man, before we wrap it up, I got a couple questions that we’d like to ask everybody that comes on the show. I might throw an extra one in for you that I didn’t prep you with, but first of all, are you more of a caddy shack or happy go more guy? 0:51:54 – Dylan WuDefinitely more of a caddy shack. Now, the funny thing with my brother he’s never seen oh, he saw happy go more, but until this year he’d never watched caddy shack. He thought the greatest golf, the greatest game ever played, was the best golf movie. I’m like what are you talking about? That’s like the worst one. I’m like geez, dude, get us together. 0:52:14 – Jeff PelizzaroLittle brothers, come on. All right, what would your walkup song be if you could pick a walkup song to the first T-Box? 0:52:21 – Dylan WuSo when we played the Zura classic with my buddy, justin Bull’s entrance song, sirens, which was really cool, but I think my personal walkup song, I think growing up my favorite song, like in high school, is Hall of Fame by Script pretty cool one, or I just I just feel like it was pretty amped. Another one that we loved for hockey was Lose Yourself by Eminem. Yep, it was a classic but probably Script of Hall of Fame. 0:52:53 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Is there a book that you’d like to recommend to people that has meant something to you, or that you’ve read multiple times, or you’ve gotten something out of that you’d like to share with people? It doesn’t have to be a golf book. It could be really add to anything, it’s got to be. 0:53:08 – Dylan WuSome of the I think it’s Golf’s not a game of perfect Some of that golf stuff books I read my dad I learned golf basically the same time I was learning, but I just love learning about the mental side of the game. Just read so much like books like that and every shot is a purpose and Zen golf they’re just like so important to my success just how to properly think. There’s definitely some other books that I’ve read that are better for my entire outlook on life I just can’t think of right now. My wife’s a big reader, so it’s more of her recommendations that I read. But yeah, I think, yeah, that’s probably the best one. 0:53:57 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, if you could pick a celebrity foursome to play with. You get to spend four or five hours with whoever you want past, present, whoever who you’re playing with. 0:54:10 – Dylan WuI mean got a first one, but Tiger I think I just put one golfer in it, but Tiger’s just so instrumental to any professional golfer who’s played in the last I don’t know 10, 15 years. He’s the reason I wanted to play golf and he’s the reason why we get to play golf for a living, for more money nowadays. I definitely want to put a football player in there. I feel like I would want to play with Patrick from the Homes, just because it seems like a good vibe. I loved watching the Netflix show with him in it. Quarterback seems like it was just a good, just all around good dude. Steph Curry I want to play with because he’s a good golfer. Yeah, and he’s unreal. I mean, he’s the best shooter of all time. And I’m trying to think of a fourth celebrity, I think another celebrity probably. This is pretty selfish of me. My crush growing up was Blake Lively. She probably doesn’t play golf, but I’ll probably throw her in there and he probably want to throw a girl in there. 0:55:13 – Jeff PelizzaroNice, I love it. 0:55:15 – Dylan WuPretty unique force up there. That’s pretty weird one. 0:55:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, Pretty good, though. Pretty good, All right. Now I know you guys don’t get to go and travel to play. You know some of the bucket list places that a lot of you know the recreational golfers do, because you guys are always traveling to play golf for your job. Is there any place that, if we said, Dylan, we’ve got the 18STRONG jet, we’ve got it fueled up, we’re picking you up, we’re going, we have access anywhere. Where are you going? 0:55:41 – Dylan WuPlace I’ve never played. I mean, I have never played in the Masters in Augusta, but I think I’m going to wait until I make it, hopefully in the near future. But I would love to play, probably Pine Valley, that’s supposed to be the best one. But I also want to go play golf overseas, like right now they’re playing golf in Australia. I’m looking. As long as my year goes well, next year I’m probably going to try to go play Australian Open next year. I mean, playing in the sand belt just sounds awesome, just looks so pure, firm and fast. Fans look awesome. But no, I’ve been lucky enough to play a lot of the best courses in the world. My favorite course I’ve ever played right now is Cypress Point. I love Pebble and Monterey so much. That’s just the best area in the world for golf. Just the views are unreal and it’s like nice sweater weather usually and it’s just such fun golf. 0:56:39 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. So the question that I don’t ask everybody, but I know that you’re a True Links wear guy and we’re big True Links wear fans here at 18STRONG. What’s your favorite on and, off course, true Links wear shoes. 0:56:53 – Dylan WuYeah, so funny story of True Links how I got into it. Middle of COVID or the summer after COVID of 2020, I was playing on the corn. Very we’re in Omaha by now, wife. It’s like you need some new shoes, just casual shoes. We’re just at a shopping mall in Omaha. I’m just trying on some shoes and I’m like, oh, looking at these knits, and I’m like these are kind of cool. And I get two of them and I’m checking out. I think I’m wearing golf clothes and they’re like these are golf shoes and I’m like what? Oh, like it’s a golf shoe company that makes this. And after buying it, I’m like doing research. I’m like I’m from Oregon, this is from the Pacific Northwest. Like how have I not even heard of this? So, literally after that, I remember reaching out to True Links after that and be like that try wearing your shoes. And it was a little different first, because I was wearing Nike shoes but I had some feet problems where, like the feet were too tight, I was getting like blisters a little bit and I was like I’ll try these shoes and I love them. But they didn’t have any spikes and I was like I was going to be an issue in the beginning but I’m like after one day with them they were awesome and I mean they’re made in Seattle Washington. They were rains like more than any other place. I’m not going to slip on the golf course. These shoes are probably waterproof. They’re probably good in the rain because they’re made there. My favorite off the course shoe it’s probably the knit. It’s like the knit threes Like I literally have every color and I travel with two or three of them I just wear. They’re perfect. I can wear them off the golf course. They look good for dinners where I’m wearing them in casual or something nice. I don’t mind using the ripstop sometimes. If I’m back home they’re pretty good. But my go-to shoe golf shoe is the Lex Tor. It’s last year’s model. That’s when I’ve been wearing a lot and the one I’ve actually been wearing the last couple of weeks. It’s like the dead golf or knit one knit hybrid, which is really cool actually, but truly it’s been great to me. I love those guys. The guys Jeremy Moore and Jason and Ryan all the more brothers that got a found. It are great. Jason runs true. Jeremy’s now my agent because of true Really. And then I get to play golf with Ryan. I mean, he’s an unreal golfer and from the Pacific Northwest, but it all happened from me as my wife telling me to go buy some shoes just casual shoes in Omaha. So that was three and a half years from now ago and I love wearing them. I mean, I sent truths to all my friends. I got married last year For all my grows and we got custom true shoes. They’re great, that’s awesome. They’re awesome. 0:59:54 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, those guys are great. We’ve had Jason on the show a while back and they’ve always been great to us. And I mean we’ve got a bunch of guys here in St Louis now rocking. You know, like we’re in the Midwest, nobody knows what true links wear is, except when you come around, our group of guys playing golf, so really cool. I got one last question for you what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever personally been given? 1:00:17 – Dylan WuI don’t think it’s necessarily golf advice, but for me and my golf career it’s like the quote I don’t know who said it, but hard work beats talent. What talent doesn’t work hard? I think it’s from MJ. I don’t know if Michael Jordan said that or Kevin Durant, but it’s a quote that I think really speaks to me. It’s like you just gotta work hard and go get after it. Like a lot of things in life won’t be given to you right away. You gotta go work hard for it. And sometimes, when you take things for granted, that’s when things go downhill. So, honestly, being really humble and just working at it and just kind of keeping your head down, like I tell myself like and tell people like if I can just keep my head down and I look up and I’m like 50 years old and I’ve still been playing on the PGA Tour, then I’ve made it Like just work hard Cause then you have no regrets. It’s like on the golf course, like I can keep my head down for all 72 holes, no matter if I had bad shots or make mistakes. Like I know I’m leaving the golf course, leaving it all out there, playing my best, and that’s all you can ask for. 1:01:30 – Jeff PelizzaroSuch great advice. Dylan, I can’t thank you enough for coming on. Man, this was a lot of fun getting to know you, getting to hear a little bit more about your story and the whole 18STRONG crew. We’re gonna be pulling for you next year, in 2024. 1:01:42 – Dylan WuNo, I appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me. 1:01:47 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Straight hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Eric Schaetty (Schaetty Strength & Fitness)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 359Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Welcome to another exciting installment of the 18STRONG Podcast, where we have the pleasure of hosting our good friend Eric Schaettyy from Schaettyy Strength and Fitness. Tune in as we navigate Eric’s remarkable journey from a 12 handicap to a 4.9 handicap golfer within a year, highlighting his background in the fitness industry and his unique training approach tailored for golfers. Discover how his passion for fitness and golf influenced his professional world and led him to work with more golfers. Get ready to immerse yourself in a discussion about the intersection of golf, fitness, and sobriety. Eric shares how golf has become a therapeutic outlet for one participant who has been sober for 12 years. We also stress the power of consistency in achieving fitness goals and highlight the strong friendships formed within our community. Later, we explore the significance of strength and balance training in golf, and how these elements enhance the overall movement in the swing. Listen as we break down the benefits of walking and consistency in fitness routines, sharing personal experiences of how simple practices like walking have yielded better results than intense workouts. We share our thoughts on starting small and gradually increasing intensity, as well as the benefits of strength training for overall health and injury prevention. Finally, Eric reveals his bucket list course, Riviera, and recommends following Barbell Medicine on social media. Get inspired as Eric encourages us to start today, emphasizing the importance of seizing the moment rather than waiting for a “do-over” in life. This episode is packed with valuable insights that every golfer, fitness enthusiast, or anyone looking to improve their physical and mental well-being shouldn’t miss! Main Topics (00:03) Golf Transformation and Fitness Journey Eric Schaetty’s golf journey from 12 to 4.9 handicap, consistency in fitness and golf, adapting training for golfers, and understanding tendencies on the course. (10:50) Training and Background in Sports Equipment and athletic background shape a golfer’s swing and success, as seen through a guest’s experience with a stiffer shaft and background in hockey and martial arts. (19:38) CrossFit, Strength Training, and Fitness Goals Fitness and golf are discussed, emphasizing individual goals and incorporating weightlifting for strength and fat loss. (32:08) Balance and Strength in Golf Training Vertical jumping, lateral rotation, and balance training are crucial for golf fitness and building relationships through the sport. (37:22) The Benefits of Golf in Sobriety Golf, fitness, and sobriety intersect in our community, emphasizing consistency, strong friendships, and the power of walking for physical and mental well-being. (40:16) The Power of Consistency and Walking Nature’s benefits of walking and consistency in fitness routines, starting small and incorporating strength training for long-term health. (47:55) Start Today Fitness and golf expert Eric Schaettyy shares his journey, training program, and love for Caddyshack and recommends Barbell Medicine. Follow Eric Schaetty Instagram: @eschats82 Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 359 with Eric Schaetty from Schaetty Strength and Fitness. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everyone deserves to play better, longer. This week is an exciting one for me. I have a really good friend of mine, eric Schaetty from Schaetty Strength and Fitness, on the show. Eric is one of my really good friends. We play a lot of golf together. We actually work together. He actually works outside of this facility with me, and we get to talk to Eric about his golf transformation. Not only his golf transformation, but Eric has an extensive background in the strength and fitness and conditioning world as well, and so we’re talking a lot about both his journey as a golfer and his fitness journey, but also how he has then taken that into his professional world and what he’s doing now, working with a lot more golfers compared to his initial start in the fitness industry, which really began with him working in martial arts and crossfit and a lot of traditional weightlifting. So today’s episode is great because we’re talking about not just different training styles, but we’re talking about what Eric did himself to go from a 12th handicap last year at about the same time, down to a 4.9 handicap, and it involved much less in regards to practice and technique than you would likely think. And so we dive really deep into what he did, how his workouts impacted that, but ultimately, from a golf standpoint, what he did. Then we discuss different training styles and how he’s kind of changed his tactics from his initial start to now working with golfers and how that impacts what you do yourself in the gym. And what’s really neat is that we talk about how, if you’re somebody who’s just kind of getting started again or getting back into the gym, how you’re going to benefit so much more than somebody that’s been working out for a long period of time. So if you’re nervous about doing that, we talk about why it’s so important that you just get started. And then, lastly, we talk about the importance of consistency over everything and how being consistent with the goal is naturally just going to produce the results. But oftentimes we don’t dive into being consistent. We rely more on our motivation, which can wane, and ultimately that can lead to failure in your goals, failure in your training program, failure in your golf practice. Whatever goal you have, you have to be consistent in the process to achieve the goal. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with, as we call them, buddy E. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strongcom, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview Eric Schaetty, buddy E. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. How are we doing? Good to be here, glad to be here, great to be here, great to finally have you. This is cool. So this is episode 356. For those of you that watched it or listened to it, we had our buddy, bobby Drummond, on in our first GoForge Yourself episode. This episode, I think, is going to be a little bit of a hybrid. You haven’t gone through the forge or anything, but I want to kind of tell your story, but your expertise is also in the fitness industry many, many years 15 plus years in the fitness industry. We work together on a daily basis. We’re running these in this podcast office Unbelievable. But you are also part of the 18STRONG crew and one of the most golf obsessed people that I’ve ever met in my life but have made a huge transformation in your golf game over the past year and then in your fitness over the past couple of decades. So we’re going to talk about all of that. So again, welcome, and I’m excited to dig in this. Finally, glad to be here. This is made it to the show. So tell the folks listening at home, the crew, a little bit, just about your golf journey just this last year, just because I think we’ll start there and then we’ll dive in everything. 0:04:45 – Eric SchaettyIt kind of started more. We was in the pit here and I was all winter banging balls in the pit, hitting, hitting, hitting, trying to shallow the club, shallow the club it’s all you hear. Now that’s the craze. I was like just trying to like make the perfect swing, record my videos over and over and over and was really trying to get after that and was really like just trying to develop a good swing, finally developed some elbow tendonitis and my elbows were bothering me. But I play hockey too. So I was thinking maybe is it from hockey, Is it from a wall to my hockey stick. I really didn’t know what was going on so I was like, all right, well, spring comes along, we’ll get out of the pit, we’ll go start playing some golf. I joined a club, pretty much playing every day I would say Almost. I was so happy. My wife can find out for that. Yeah, so can my kids. But just started going and just playing golf, got out of the pit and went and just started playing golf, finding out what my misses were, what my yardages were, and just started to kind of get around the course instead of being in a pit and not really seeing where the ball was going or anything like that. So it started out with just all right, what are your misses, what are your tendencies, what am I doing wrong? And it started from the tee and then worked my way towards the green. So it was like all right, what do I do with my drive? Started with that and then started kind of chipping away. All right, let’s get closer. What are my yardages for all my clubs carry. And then from a hundred yards in, that’s where, like right now, I’m truly trying to like the bread and butter of the game is from a hundred yards in. I think it was. It was a Gary player said he gets like a 15. Any cap led him hit a tee shot and will be a three tomorrow if he plays the rest of the shots. So kind of took that and just played all summer and went from probably a 12 last year to now about 40 at 4.9, which I’m not sure I could this morning 4.9. 0:06:57 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I think you know, as an outsider kind of looking in on this, I was able to. You know we were here. We’re banging balls together and talking, swing and, and you know, doing all this in the gym here. But it feels to me like one of the turning points was you booked a lesson with our buddy, casey, who, casey Cox, has been on the show as well and I’ll let you tell the story. But it almost and kudos to Casey Casey was almost like dude, yeah, like you don’t need, you don’t need a bunch of lessons. 0:07:26 – Eric SchaettySo Casey, great, great coach, great instructor, I mean, he is literally like, he makes you feel so comfortable, Like as soon as the lesson starts you want to say a word, you just you just start hitting balls and he doesn’t. He just sits there, it’s got his thing going and got you all hooked up. He’s banging balls, banging balls. I’m hitting balls and he, all of a sudden he goes hold on. He’s like why, why are you here? He’s like what, what are you doing? He goes you hit the ball. As far as I do, your path looks fine. There’s something like crazy going on. He’s like what are you here? So, and that’s why I was like well, listen, my driver distance does not correlate to my irons. I’m hitting my iron. You know my. You know seven iron, 165 carry. Why am I not hitting my driver 275 yards? I see guys hitting 165 for their seven iron. They’re blasting their driver and I’m only carrying mine 225 yards. So he’s like all right, we’ll get your driver out. So we hit a few. He’s like all right, all right. He’s like he grabs the club. He goes give me that. Looks at it for a second. He’s like you’re playing with an old man shaft. He’s like and this head is doing you no justice. He’s like you need to get a different driver shaft, you need a different head and I think that’ll help your driver. So it was like okay. So then Andrew, our other friend, he he’s like well, I got an extra driver. If you want to buy it off me, it’s stiff shaft title list. You want to give it a try? And then, kind of after that, I was like all she wrote. Yeah, I was all she wrote. So the driver got dialed in and then it was like let’s just take those next steps. 0:09:04 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, for those of you that aren’t watching, and even those of you that are watching, give me, give me the dimensions. How tall, how heavy are you? 0:09:13 – Eric SchaettyI am about 55 and a half and 135 hundred and 40 pounds on a good day, and that’s on a good day and in our group so we you know mandatory golf Friday. 0:09:24 – Jeff PelizzaroWe’ve had our trips down in Nashville. We play with a wide array of guys, a lot of different levels of golf, and I mean I’d say you’re in the top three or four guys as far as distances, and that includes, you know, a couple former professional guys that that we play with. Yeah, so did you see, and I’m one of the reasons that I love having you on here is because you’ve done what so many of the listeners and all of us have really want to do. Right, like we all say, we want to get faster, we all say we want to do all these things, but ultimately we want to score better, we want to play better, and we want to do that having fun with the game too, and go from a 12 down to below a five handicap, right. So over the course of this last year, when you first switched out that driver I know you immediately liked it Did you see, over the course of a year, just your distance just kind of slowly get longer and longer because you got more comfortable? Was it a confidence thing in your swing? What was the change there? 0:10:17 – Eric SchaettyIt was, it was really honestly, it was a confidence. And then the feel, like the feel of the club and knowing that like if I transfer my weight, this club is not going to be whipping around and doing crazy things, and because I could feel with my other club like I would have it in my backswing and I would go to transition and it would literally feel like I had a noodle in my hands. I just did. I was yeah, I did and I just had no confidence to transfer and get to my left side and get turned over and transfer all that weight. I was just so just scared to do it. So once I got that stiffer shaft the better than different driver it was like all right, just swing, just swing. You know that you can swing fast enough, just swing the club. So there’s more or less like all right, you got the right equipment. That’s partially sometimes issues. I was like you just don’t have the right equipment. Yes, I had no idea that I was playing with the wrong equipment. So I think it was more confidence and knowing that my body can just go and you don’t really have to think about it. 0:11:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So I want to talk a little bit about your background in sports because, you know, obviously training is what you do on a daily basis. I see what you do in the gym for yourself, I see what you do with your clientele and you start even working with a lot more golfers too. So I want to kind of talk about a little the transition of maybe how you are training them a little differently than some of the other folks you have in the past. But your background, you know, is in hockey, some martial arts, and when I watch you swing a golf club it’s a super smooth, almost feels a little effortless kind of swing. It doesn’t look like you’re trying to swing out of your shoes. But I mean your smash factor has to be so good because of the distance and we were talking the other day swing speed wise. 0:12:03 – Eric SchaettyI mean it’s not crazy speed either, right, no, no, what your speed is Go no off the top of my head, but I would say probably 105 somewhere in there, 105, 110. Yeah, you know I’m worried if you’re really getting after probably yeah, nothing wild, yeah, and I’m not swinging like a Torpro or anything wild like that, but yeah, it’s probably around 105 to 110. 0:12:26 – Jeff PelizzaroSo your background in those sports and I’m really curious to. We’ve talked a lot about hockey players on here but I’m even curious about, like, the Muay Thai and kickboxing and like I would imagine that that that quick hips, you know hip driven stuff, that makes a big difference. 0:12:42 – Eric SchaettyI was thinking about that and I was like you know, the crazy thing is that you talk about the hockey and that I’m a left handed hockey player. The only thing I do, left handed, as I shoot a hockey stick the opposite direction that I swing a golf club. So it’s like that. You know people would think, oh, I will, you do. You’re swinging the opposite direction of your golf club. So I was like you know what? What is it that made my golf swing so much different than any anybody else’s or the guys would play with? And then I thought about it. There are so many leg kicks that I have thrown, or punches that where you have to rotating your hips and it’s fast, it’s over and over and over and over. Throwing leg kicks over and over and over. And I think it has a lot to do with throwing the leg kicks, throwing the punches that you’re, you’re jittering that hip, that torque and all of that speed and through your hips and through your legs. 0:13:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine that really never really thought about it this way. But of all sports, something like that where you’re striking on a continuous basis, you know, when you’re you’re training, you might not be going boom, boom, boom, you know, but you’re, you’re striking, relax striking. That’s a little bit more like the golf swing compared to almost any other sport In movie tie. 0:14:02 – Eric SchaettyThey actually like you’re not. It’s not like kickboxing, and in that kickboxing you know it’s a lot of volume throw kicks and you want to throw them hard. In movie tie you are hitting to hurt. Like you throw a leg kick, you’re trying to chop their leg down, like that is literally what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to kick their leg as hard as you possibly can. So I think there’s a lot of that like transfer. It’s like, well, as soon as you get that pattern laid down, it is almost effortless. When you throw a leg kick it’s, you don’t even think about it. I mean, there’s some great MMA fighters. There was an interview I saw the other day. It was a Pereira, this guy who just fought and he was messing around Daniel Cormier and he goes all right and Cormier goes. He was Brazilian guy goes, throw 30%, 30% and he literally just barely tapped him and it looked like Cormier was going to fall over. And so it is. There is that transfer, but it’s a forceful power transfer? 0:14:56 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you think that that plays into? You know, talking about kids growing up and playing and we talk about speed all the time now, but kind of talking about the way that Jack Nicholas talked about this getting kids to just swing as fast as they can in order to gain speed early, because that that, Like you said, the pattern gets ingrained, the muscle memory gets ingrained. 0:15:19 – Eric SchaettyYeah, absolutely, and it’s you need to. When you’re young, when you’re a kid, there is no fear, and when we get older, it’s like I don’t know what’s going to happen in my back. I’m like I’m throwing my shoulder out and you know like you’re so worried about how hard you’re going to swing because you might hurt yourself. So I think a lot of it when you’re a kid, you know just as well as I do, like our kids are fearless. They do not, they will do anything. So I think, as when you’re really young and you get them into something, just let them start to say sweet spashes, you can’t go ahead. I mean because the odds of them getting hurt, I mean, are fairly low. We just swing your golf club, right? 0:15:54 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd, I think, repercussion wise, on the golf course they don’t care as much either. Right? So they’re losing dad’s golf balls, they’re not losing their own golf, they’re not typing their gin hand out. Yeah, so let’s talk a little bit about your world of fitness. What? What got you really involved in the training side of things? When did you start with the martial arts? Did you do that as a little kid or was that something? No? 0:16:17 – Eric SchaettySo growing up it was just hockey. I mean I did you know COIC, soccer and all that growing up, but it was mainly hockey, did a little bit of D2 club hockey in college Really was just hockey I did. I really didn’t lift weights in high school. We didn’t have like a like you know, these kids nowadays you have like an after school training program. You’re going oh, why is conditioning Isn’t that? We had none of that. I mean, it was basically you were on the ice and that was it. I didn’t touch weights. I mean. Besides, you know curls in your basement, you know, get started under the bar. Yeah, the, the, the sit around, double. It’s like it really was just that. And then basically it was in my around 2007, when I was out of college 2008, a friend of mine who worked in the bar industry with me. He was a trainer at club fitness and the old Rock Hill location, which is like a gymnastics place now, and I was just one in there one day and he kind of showed me a few things and I was like I just want to start lifting weights I’m not trying to and it was kind of the time I was getting into the martial arts a little bit and I was just like I need to learn how to lift weights, can you help me? And he helped me a little bit and through the course of like that year, I like just transformed myself. I transformed my body. Um, it was kind of like wow, this is, this is cool. Like I feel great, Like I love the way I feel, I love what I’m doing for myself, like I was like this is really uplifting. And then me, at the time I was working in bars, I was like so that same guy. I went to him one day. I was like, hey, how, how do we get a job doing this? Like I love the way I’m done this for other people. Where do I start? Like. And he was like all right, well, we’ll get you signed up or whatever. And we, you know, you got to get this certification or that certification. So I went and got to do NASM and a little trial period. But it was literally I was basically walking in the door talking to an old friend and just kind of like you know, dove in head first, yeah. 0:18:09 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd you I mean you made a pretty significant transformation in your body, in your fitness, your lifestyle, you know so. You’ve done all of that. What was your journey then into the training side? I know you worked in CrossFit. Do you weight lift? You know weight lifting certifications. What was the journey then, kind of you know, up until where we are now? 0:18:29 – Eric SchaettyYeah. So when I was a little lot younger I mean, I was not even like towards the beginning of my training side, my training career I was still like even when I was doing martial arts, like some of that, I would go out after practice and I was still smoking cigarettes. I was like I’m drinking beers, like I was not the fast food, just not the bastion of health. So once I got into the training side of it, I’m like all right, this doesn’t correlate with my image. I can’t walk in smelling like cigarettes, I can’t you know be eating fast food and whatnot. And it was like, all right, well, the Muay Thai, that training was over and I was like I need something more competitive. Like I’m really ultra competitive, I’m over competitive. So I’m like what can I do? And that’s when I found CrossFit a buddy of mine, it was the old CrossFit St Louis when I was over in a hand-lead industrial. It was like a swag when they say a box. Yeah, it was literally. It was a pull-up bar, some weights and that was it right. So I got into that. That’s super competitive. With it, you know, I got my first muscle of them. I was after that like it kind of took off and that was like all right, I really love this. I did CrossFit for a long time. I did CrossFit for five or six years something like that you ever take and I got ultra obsessed, started coaching it like was studying USA weightlifting certifications and just like was really like just engulfed in CrossFit. And I will say, like CrossFit, that’s the one thing CrossFit has done is A, is or two things actually. Community, yeah, totally Like you cannot put their community up against well, maybe ours, but you can’t really put it up against any other like community out there. Like they are so close, they’re so tight. And two, what it’s done for just fitness and weightlifting in general. You can go drive down the street now and buy barbells, yeah, and buy weights and buy plates. Without CrossFit, none of that is possible. You wouldn’t have show me weights. You wouldn’t have a lot of these different places where, like, you can just walk down the street and like I’m going to go squat today and I’m going to go drop in while I’m out of town. I’m done that. I’m going to Florida and be like, hey, do you guys mind if I just, you know, back over in the corner and squat. So you know, got to CrossFit, you know, got into these different certifications and just like, basically the CrossFit helped me a lot with the CrossFit, with like learning all the basic foundational lifts and all that, and then some of the other certifications are great, but it’s the experience I’ve acquired over the 15 years and it’s like I’ve just learned so much over the past 15 years as far as just in the gym experience and then just kind of like all right, what actually does work? What actually you know what anecdotal stuff actually works? So it really wasn’t. Oh well, you know I’m done with CrossFit. It was more like all right, let’s dive into the strength side of this a little bit more. And that’s when I kind of got into the strength side of it. That’s where I’ve been at kind of ever since, you know strength side and then kind of getting away from the hard cardio and diving back into the golf world. 0:21:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So you and I have been working together on a year and a half year, something over two years, over two years now. So one of the things that I noticed because we didn’t know each other at all before then was just the way that you train with your clients. You know a lot of barbell stuff, a lot of strength related stuff and, obviously, small gym. We listen to each other’s conversations, how we talk to our clients, and I really like the way that you explain to your clients. You know why you’re doing this. You’re really big on teaching them accountability, on learning their lifts themselves and being able to do this stuff on their own right, and so I want to kind of go into some tactics on different goals that I think a lot of the crew has, because with golf it’s different than any other sport, because we could have somebody listen to the show that’s an 18 year old male or female, we could have somebody that’s a 75 year old male or female, and all of them want to get better at golf and if they’re listening to this show, they want to figure out what’s the right thing for them to do body wise, fitness wise. But, as I know that you have told so many of your clients, you have to really focus in on. What’s the main thing that you want to focus on, right? Is it your strength? Is it your fat boss? Is it you want to just move better, to swing the golf club better? Is it you want a better golf swing? All of those different pieces are different. What would you say are some of them? And we’ll just kind of talk big rock things regarding the differences between if you want to get strong, if you want to lose some weight, and maybe the third one, if you want to just get moving better. What are some of the things that you would say like, hey, for strength, you got to do this, fat loss, you got to do this. There’s a lot of variables, yeah, yeah. 0:23:27 – Eric SchaettyThe majority of people, though I think that a lot of times a everybody is terrified to a lift weights, to go into a gym to do any of that stuff. So, first off, that you know, reassuring people that the rate of injury for weightlifting is that of non contact sports you can get hurt just as much swimming as you can, lifting weight and like. So that’s the first thing I would say to people is, like, listen, you’re not going to get hurt doing this, Just commit to it. And then most of the people that are listening are probably I’m just assuming most are not lifting weights yet, right? So most of them are going to get the best of both worlds You’re going to get stronger and you’re going to build muscle at the same time. Right? You don’t need, you, don’t? You don’t have to pick and choose which one you want to do, Because once you get more trained as you well know, is that you have to pick one another. All right, am I going to get stronger or am I going to build muscle? That’s your point. So I would say, for the strength side of it is that I would start with just basic things as far as just picking something up off the ground, some type of hip hinge, some type of squatting and it doesn’t even have to be squatting If you would rather do a leg press because you feel more comfortable doing a leg press start with that for strength. The thing is is that strength? The definition of strength would be for your bodies to contract against an outside resistance. It doesn’t matter what it is to start, just put something in your hands, get a bar on your back if you want, but it doesn’t have to be anything like you see on TV or you hear about. So, as far as strength goes, just start doing something that’s going to put your body against an outside resistance. 0:25:12 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat are a couple of things you mentioned leg press or squatting and hinging. I mean, are those the big ones for you? 0:25:19 – Eric SchaettyYeah, most of my training and the most of the way I do train people, is that there’s always the three main lifts. You’re going to do something like a hip hinge. You’ll do something about squatting, whether it’s split squat or something like that and then you’ll do something like a horizontal or vertical pressing based on their limitations. A lot of people struggle with overhead pressing or an overhead press, so you can always modify those things, but you just start with those things foundationally and then find out what drives a person, because the results, the success of a program, is 100% adherence. If you’re not going to adhere to the program, you’re not going to have success. So, find something that you want to do. If somebody says to me hey, eric, yeah, squatting is cool and all, but I want huge arms, cool, I’m going to sprinkle on some arm stuff. Or you can sprinkle them for yourself, if you wanted to sprinkle on some arm stuff, or you want to do all of my back to get bigger, and you can do that. You know, sprinkle on things that you enjoy, because if you don’t enjoy those things, you’re not going to adhere to it. You’re not going to adhere to it. Fat loss Fat loss is dependent on, you know, changing your metabolism right, the way you change your metabolism change your body composition. If you build muscle, you’re going to change your body composition. So, just starting out with just some strength training builds muscle, which changes your metabolism, and you’re already ahead of the curve because you’ve already killed two birds with one stone. You’ve built some muscle. Now you’ve changed your metabolism. Well, guess what? If you’re changing nothing else, you’re going to change how you look, yeah, and you’re going to burn some fat, yeah. 0:26:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd the mean time, more muscle means more, more burning of calories, which means, you know, a bit in calorie deficit, or you know. And then obviously the there’s the food component to to the fat loss, right, but Jeff is, it is a is a chat that we have in this gym many, many times and ultimately, you know, once you get past that the initial phase where just strength training is is doing the trick, then you have to start to dial that in. 0:27:26 – Eric SchaettyYeah, yeah, I think a lot of times people get very, I think, over the, you know, I would say, the past few decades there’s a lot of like earmongering of you can’t have this, or you can’t have that, this diet’s the best, or this diet’s the best or no, no, no, don’t touch that. Or you know, and people just like, literally, if you went through all the things people tell you you can’t have, you would almost have an empty plate. If you like, oh, there’s pesticides on those leaves. Or don’t drink that soda because that has aspartame, or, like you would literally be able to eat that tomato because it’s got yeah you’d be drinking water and that is it. So the nutrition side of it would be pick something that you want to do, because all diets have one common factor and that’s a caloric deficit Yep. So if you want to do intermittent fasting, cool. If you want to do the keto diet, cool. If you want to do high carb, low fat, that’s fine as well. Just start picking one thing and work on that. I’m going to eat better for breakfast, I’m going to wake up every day and I’m going to have enough protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, which is the process of building muscle. So start with that and then just start small goals and just work your way up the ladder instead of like all right, here we go. First of the year, I’m doing it at all Right, and before you know it, like two weeks down the road, you’re like all right, that didn’t go too well, what am I supposed to do next? So I think it’s nutrition is a lot about small goals. Work on one thing at a time after you have the you know, the strength side dialed in and just little building blocks along the way. 0:29:00 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them, them helping their customers get real results, aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually living them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis. So you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. Bring your other website, 1stphorm.com/18strong, forward slash 18STRONG and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stphorm.com/18strong that’s P-H-O-R-Mcom. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that is purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. I know that you just recently have started working with a lot more golfers, a lot of people from your club, which is really cool. When you’re now taking a lot of your traditional training style and you’ve been doing this for yourself too, working in some things for your own golf game. Have you changed anything specifically in the way that you’re training them or in the way that you’re training also for the golf purposes? 0:31:24 – Eric SchaettyYes. So as far as the training goes, so foundationally and I’ve noticed this is that strength is a vital component of the golf swing in you and it doesn’t have to be the sense that people think they need a strong squat, they need to put 315 on the bar and be squatting 315 for multiple reps. No, you don’t. If you come in and say, alright, I was squatting my body weight three months ago, now I’m squatting a kettlebell that weighs 53 pounds, guess what you’ve gotten strong. Yes, and that is going to correlate over to Training. So I don’t necessarily have to do barbells with them, I don’t. I just try to get them to do some type of squat, hinge press. We’re just gonna get them a little bit stronger and then we’re throwing in. I’m trying to and I’m doing a little more research with this is that you see a lot of correlation to Vertical jumping, height, how high somebody can jump, or the vertical force and a golf swing. You also see a lot of lateral rotation, static positions, things like that. So I do like to sprinkle in some lateral rotation stuff. I like to focus on, you know, slamming whether it’s side slam, whether it’s an overhead slam, rotations, front leg, and then the really the big thing that I am new to, especially with my clients that I’ve taken from the club, is balance. A lot of them just don’t Understand how to transfer from the right side to the left side or a left and a golf, yet left to right. Is that a lot more balanced stuff? Transferring one leg, being on one leg, focusing on finding your balance in your feet and then being able to transfer from one side of the other so it’s still the foundations of strength. But then you’re throwing in a little snippets of like alright, we’re on balance today and you we’re gonna work on your. You know your vertical, your vertical jump or and when I say vertical Jump it doesn’t mean that I know how I’m doing like crazy box jump, right, I think. But just get them to a move faster and Be get them to move a little more powerfully, yep, so I think I’ve incorporated a lot more of that into the golfer side of it. Worse, most of my other clients were really not like I’m not gonna do a lot of that stuff with right, a little more traditional, with strength stuff. 0:33:38 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, what I found with the you know, the balance stuff. I mean initially, when somebody says balance, they think, oh, standing on one leg, those. But it’s more than that. And I find that a lot of golfers feel like they’re not flexible enough to get into whatever position. But a lot of times it’s it’s more their balance, like they just don’t know how to hold a position or the body hasn’t been there. And so once you start to put them in these different situations when you’ve got them in a split stance and then they’re throwing a ball or they’re rotating with a cable, they’re like, oh, they’re a little unsteady. But as they do that week after week, then it’s like, oh, I can actually move better through my motion. It’s not because you do a bunch of stretches and you do. You know a lot of these long duration holds where or you’re working on getting them all the way into the backswing or position holds. It’s no, you’re just more balanced and you’re comfortable and you’re understanding what your body needs to do in a swing. 0:34:27 – Eric SchaettyYeah, and that was another, as he was Lee Trevino. Remember watching the video about having. He said you could take you know he lives at the driving range and looked at the range. He said take all these golfers, I could work on their swing right now, we could do all these things to it. He goes, they’re gonna show back up tomorrow and they’re gonna do the same thing they were doing before I said anything. So a lot of these people like I’m not, I’m not trying to change your swing, I’m just trying to get them to understand. Like, listen, when you get here, this is when this goes. Like I had said something to John sharing the other day. I was like you do you understand? Like, before you start the downswing, your body’s actually moving in the opposite direction. And they’re like what, wait a minute, with what do you mean? Like your body’s moving in two different directions at one point and died. So it’s things like that, like you said, getting to understand that your body’s gonna be moving in two different directions and you’re gonna have to find that balance in between those two. 0:35:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, this is mentioned. John and Sharon. It’s kind of cool to see that you have people from your club. You mentioned it. Randy is yeah, randy Ray, one of the first clients that came over from the club. Tell the story. Oh yeah, randy’s all the client. 0:35:32 – Eric SchaettySo I ended up in the club championship this year first round. I just got back from Florida. The first round went well. You know, knock the guy out in the 19th hole in the first round. So the second round had a play Randy. Nobody really knew it. It’s not like we had him bar fight. 0:35:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s about the guy on the night? 0:35:51 – Eric SchaettyThe guy out. Yeah, you know I got a little iffy out there, but uh, but yeah. So I beat Tony in the first round. So I had Randy. Nobody knew anything about Randy either. So you know, these guys like, oh my god, randy’s such a nice guy, he’s such a cool guy, you’re gonna love it, like great. So I know, plan Randy. Randy goes on a heater last four holes, shoots three under on the last four holes, comebacks, beats me. So they’re walking up back to the cars. He’s like, oh so your trainer, huh, he’s, you know, kind of shakes his head. He’s like well, have to get your number. He’s like I might have to come see you. So he’s like, after I get back for my trip, give me a call. So I texted him and next thing, you know, here I have a client now. So it was like I I lost the match but I gained a client. I did, I gained a friendship. You know we played, you know, random golf together. Now like we’re friends now. So it’s like that Bridging the, the golf was kind of like the entry into, like this friendship and the relationship and like I see a lot of it Like with our crew, is that it’s. It’s more than like CrossFit. When I left CrossFit and went home, that was kind of it right, like, yeah, you spent an hour with them, now was a. You went home, you know some people you got close with, but a lot of these guys like you’re spending four hours Together rent just talking about whatever, shooting the crap you know, like whatever you’re doing and it’s I think the community in golf is so it’s it’s it’s way different than anything I’ve ever like through myself. That I think it’s really opened my eyes, like it you can do, and especially with my sobriety I don’t think we’ve talked about that very much. Is that especially like yeah, I’m like 11 years, that well, 12 years, 12 years sober is that I Can go out with people that are drinking, that are on the golf course and Still have a good time and that even like on my own, it’s therapeutic for me to go play 18 holes, walk 18 holes by myself, clear my head, even if I have a bad day. It is literally like the most therapeutic thing I think I’ve ever done for my sobriety. That’s awesome. 0:38:00 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I think that that’s what’s so cool about you know the community that we’re building here. You know you and I and the gym and Dave here at Empire Fitness Academy but 18STRONG just in general in our mandatory golf Friday. It’s like it’s taking a little bit of that that CrossFit feel. You know some of the workout stuff that we do, but then the golf stuff. I mean so many friendships have developed outside of just you know, mandatory golf Friday start out with a lot of Myself, ryan and different people that we knew that came and played with us right. And now it’s it’s cool to see like guys in our group, like you and Bobby and Brian going and playing in these tournaments and you know getting together outside of any kind of affiliated events and it’s just so neat to see it all come together and everybody you know enjoying and I gotta give I chill it’s talking about. Yeah, like it’s so cool. I had some of the best friendships that I think a lot of us have had in recent years because you know you can, you could talk about a lot of stuff on the golf course or you can learn nothing about the guy that you’re playing with right, like, like. 0:38:58 – Eric SchaettyI don’t know me. You’re like you guys said talk about that divorce. Oh and it’s all. How many count? 0:39:02 – Jeff Pelizzarodoes he have? I don’t know idea, but he hit a great three wood, yeah, you know, in the dark, oh, so kind of. The last thing I want to talk about before we close up with our last questions is and I think this is one of the biggest things that I hear you discuss with your clients and is probably the most important You’ve kind of alluded to it already is the consistency factor, and I’ve heard you say over and over and over again to your clients the consistency comes before the motivation, right? So I want you to just kind of explain that a little bit and what that means to you and how it’s helped you, but how it’s also helping anybody out there. 0:39:36 – Eric SchaettyThe big thing that I had heard that quote somewhere recently, but it was for me. It happened before that. It was I was killing myself with cardio. I was rowing for an hour and a half. I was waking up at two o’clock in the morning, rowing for an hour and a half, then going to my job at five am, working all day, and then I would come home and like I guess I’ll do CrossFit, I guess I’ll live some way to take a nap. And I’m like I was a year we’re talking about the walking or something happened. And I was like you know what, let, maybe it worked. Yeah, might have been on the forge, yeah, I don’t know what it was. And I was like you know what? You always see these bodybuilders like walking. And then a friend of mine, jordan Fagan, mom barbell medicine guy, he had always talked about walking. How it’s like, yay, the key to fat loss is walking. I’m like this can’t be right. And I listened to this guy and I was like, all right, well, let’s give it a try. So I scrapped all that and I’m like, all right, I’m just gonna walk for 40 minutes every morning, wake up, no matter what rain or shine. I’m walking for 40 minutes. I walked for 40 minutes and like three months I had lost like 10 pounds and I was like, wait a minute, this is weird. Like I’m in better shape, I look better and feel better than I did when I was killing myself with this hour and a half of rowing three or four days a week. And it’s like wait a minute, like what am I? I’m walking every day, though Now I’m doing seven days of 40 minutes, plus, when I’m done working out or working, I’m like all right, I’m gonna be the kids, we’re gonna go play, we’re gonna go play golf, we’re gonna go do this. And all of a sudden it’s like wait a minute, like I’m more active, I feel better. Like walking is the secret because you can do it over a long period of time with no repercussions. I’ll be if you can. Like there might be some, well, some limitation, do the elliptical or whatever. But it’s all of a sudden, this consistency was like wait a minute, this is really working. And then you get motivated. Nobody walks into the gym. It’s like, yeah, I’m gonna do this for three months straight and it’s gonna be awesome. Like most people walk in like the second or third time, like I’m gonna be so sore, this is gonna hurt. Oh man, like I know it’s time for this. Yeah, like, what am I doing? And like it’s like just keep coming back, just keep doing it, just keep doing it and the consistency comes and then, before you know it, like you get your results and then you get motivated. Then the train’s on the tracks, it’s heading downhill and you’re like all right, what’s next? Like put a bar on my back right, Put a bar in my hand. Let’s do something crazy, like right. So I think the consistency people don’t understand it’s like you will get consistent, then you will get motivated. You know, just go to the gym to start going. Whether you want to or not, I promise you in a month you will change. 0:42:21 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd it works for everything too right. So it works for strengthening, it works for walking, it works for nutrition. Not trying to do it all at once, because you know that that’s just gonna fail in a week. Even if you’re the most you know motivated person initially, you go through a week of trying to do everything every single day. It just it fades, the life gets in the way. But that’s what we’ve noticed with the Forge is we don’t tell people what to do when they work out, we don’t tell people what diet they need to choose. But you have to do it for 40 days straight and it’s like just trust the process, pick these couple of simple things. Or, if you’re one of you, it’s stronger. Okay, I’m gonna go to the gym two times a week and I’m gonna lift something kind of heavy right and do that for two times a week for 52 weeks and you’re gonna see a totally different person. 0:43:09 – Eric SchaettyAnd there’s I mean there’s research and anecdotal evidence and personal experience Like that produces results two days a week or what you will see results from two. You don’t have to go to the gym every day. Just don’t do a full body workout twice a week. You will get results and there’s evidence to prove it. There’s anecdotal stuff, there’s clients that we’ve had or you don’t think the proof is in the pudding. You don’t need to go every day. It doesn’t need to be as hard as people kind of make it sound. 0:43:38 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd, as you said earlier, if you’re somebody that hasn’t done that a long time, you’re a little nervous about going or you’re just kind of dreading getting that ball rolling. The cool thing is like you’re the person that’s gonna get the most out of it initially. If you’re somebody that has been training for a while, it’s harder to dial those results in. But if you are kind of starting fresh, simple little things are gonna do a lot. 0:44:02 – Eric SchaettyYeah, I mean, even like a couple hours a week, you’re gonna transform your body, you’re gonna do things and feel things, and I think that’s the other big thing is, like, most of the people that come in and like I think, like our crew, it’s like, yeah, they wanna hit the ball further, but they don’t want their back to hurt, they don’t want their knees to hurt oh man, I’m sick of my shoulder hurt and my back hurt. It’s like just do these fundamental things. I mean your back will start to feel better, your knees will feel better, you’ll walk nine, 18 holes and be like I feel pretty good, yeah, do it again. Right, like so. I think that’s the other side of it with the strength training is that there’s other benefits to it besides just hitting ball farther or getting stronger. Like there’s lifelong things that you can acquire down the road. 0:44:47 – Jeff PelizzaroThe most of the people, I think, that are in our crew listening, that are in our local crew playing, playing men’s tour golf Friday, probably the 35, 40 plus, mostly male, right, like the guys that we play with and, to your point, like it, it’s not all about golf, and 18STRONG has really never been about just lowering handicaps, right, it’s about so much more, especially with my background in PT and injury and just moving better. But tell me if you see the same thing. I mean we’re now inner 40s, I’m 45, you’re 41. Good to be foreign too. So like we have a lot of friends now that are kind of getting to that point where they’re well-established in their careers. They have kids that maybe are, you know, in late grade school, high school, some college, but they’ve been maybe at a desk for a long period of time. They kind of I feel like we get into this place, especially as guys, where you get into your career, you’re focusing on your family, you’re focusing on doing all the other things and you kind of let your taking care of yourself go a little bit. Have you found that that’s a big part of the golf community that you’ve seen and talked to work with? 0:46:00 – Eric SchaettyYeah, a lot of the times, and I mean even like my brother I mean my brother’s a little bit younger than me, it’s the same thing Like he’s very busy with his work life and you know, it’s like it’s like he’s a graser, really good golfer, very good golfer, but it’s like he prioritizes family and everything else over other things like that right, taking care of himself, I mean in fine shape. But I just see like little examples of like, like you said, like people letting you know their other, you know the rest of their life kind of get pushed aside or family or for whatever reason, work or whatever it is. But I mean especially my advice to them just get up and walk every morning. Yeah, just start with 15. Starts walking. Just get up and be like I’m gonna go walk every morning 15 minutes, that’s all. Just start with that For you. I like, oh, I’m gonna do 20 minutes, I might do 30 minutes, because even walking is going to build the muscles in your legs. You’re gonna get muscle strength just from walking. So even like that, just starting with that, you know, when you get through a little, five pounds. 0:47:08 – Jeff PelizzaroTell me how to go back, right, Like, just start to get a little bit of resistance, Pretty much some resistance, Exactly. I have a quick story before we jump in this last question. All right, these last questions. I’ve got one of my clients, Greg, who you probably know, but I’ll never forget. Like we met and started working with each other I don’t know six, seven years ago or so, and he is now, I think, 75, but was just kind of retiring, play, wanted to start playing a lot of golf. He’s a pretty decent golfer, but he said to me at one point, after we’d been working together for like six months, like man, I would give you a million dollars if you could put me in a time machine and we could have met 20 years ago. You know, like because of he just let his body get to that point and now he’s 67 years old or 68 years old, and it’s like you can’t get it back. So I guess this is my PSA to all you guys and guys out there like it’s never too late to start, but start today, right, and that’s kind of our whole mantra of no mulligans is like hey, you don’t get a mulligan for life, right, Like you don’t get to do this over. Yeah, you’re gonna go up and down with your fitness, but like, start today and start to do something, because you don’t get today back, right. 0:48:20 – Eric SchaettyNo, and then that’s I mean. I like I would say the same thing, like I wish I could go back. But the other thing is, is that people like that? What I have done in my life has led me to this point in time. So just take it for what it is and then just move forward. Right, like you wouldn’t be staying, I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you if it wasn’t for all these little things that have happened in my life. So just take it for what it’s worth and then you just move forward from there. Like you can’t, why change it? Right, it’s happened. You can’t go back. We can’t have a time machine. Right, it’s like, let’s think about, like, moving forward, the next step. So what are we gonna do next? Right, you can’t go back in your time machine. We can do something. We can get up tomorrow, we can go for a walk, we can go put a barbell in our hands, we can go to the gym, we can go find a strength coach, we can go do Pilates or bar or whatever you wanna do. But let’s move forward and not backwards, right, right, awesome. 0:49:12 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, brother, let’s get into these last questions. Caddyshack Happy. 0:49:16 – Eric SchaettyGilmore Caddyshack 100%. It was Christmas. It was always on, always on my grandpa’s house. We watch Caddyshack every year, Love it. 0:49:27 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, the third. So walkup song that you can pick first to the T-Box at Waterloo Country Club. Well, what are you picking? I don’t know, not really Whatever you want, but walkup songs to the first T-Box, Getting Hectic by the Urge. All right, is there a different one than you would pick at Waterloo Country Club? Um yeah, Probably. 0:49:48 – Eric SchaettyI mean it depends. Do I want to intimidate people or probably be corn blind? 0:49:53 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, how about Bill? I love it, bill loves it too. Yeah, all right, let’s see what’s our next one here. Oh, is there a book that you love, that you’ve read and that you love to recommend to people, whether it be golf, fitness, life, well, it’s an actual and it’s not a. 0:50:10 – Eric SchaettyIt’s Bobby Plaguer’s biopic Tales from the Blues Bench. It is some of the funniest stories. You like things about the 60s and the 70s and hockey that you wouldn’t even like, you wouldn’t think they would do it today and you’d be like you’re gonna jail, like some of the stuff they did, and it’s just, it’s a fun read, like it’s a great story. So yeah, tales from the Blues Bench, bobby Plaguer. 0:50:32 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, who’s your celebrity forcing if you could pick a forcing to go play with, you get four and a half to five hours to walk and just kind of shoot the shit with these people. Who’s he gonna be John? 0:50:42 – Eric SchaettyDaley, michael Jordan and my grandfather so my grandfather’s the one who helped me, like learn how to play golf, but we never played like a full round together. Really, for as long as you never played a full round Cause, when I was like like drinking days and like I would love to have that back to like what I like how I am now. I would love to have that back. 0:51:07 – Jeff PelizzaroIs he still here? 0:51:08 – Eric SchaettyNo, he passed away three, four years ago, right around there. 0:51:13 – Jeff PelizzaroSo we’d love to have that. Would your grandpa get in on the games too? 0:51:15 – Eric SchaettyOh, absolutely. He was the one in the Country Club. 0:51:18 – Jeff PelizzaroHe’s absolutely he’d be at other games. We forgot to mention that you are the assistant to the chief gambling officer of the 18STRONG crew yeah man Turgoff, right. So I know there’s gonna be some serious games with MJ John Daley. All the games, I love all the games. All right, if we’re, if we’re loading up the 18STRONG jet, we’re flying anywhere you want to go? What’s your bucket list? Course, and I’m gonna throw this out, like I did to Bobby too, I’m gonna take it. You can say it if you want, but you’re gonna give me another one. I’m gonna take Augusta and St Andrews off the table. Riviera, all right, riviera. 0:51:50 – Eric SchaettyAnd it’s super hard. It’s Northern California, like it’s beautiful Riviera for sure, all right. 0:51:57 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a social media account that you think that the 18STRONG crew should go follow, whether that be golf or whatever, but big Barbell Medicine. 0:52:06 – Eric SchaettyBarton Barlow Medicine, jordan Barbell Medicine or Austin Barrocky at Barbell Medicine. All right? 0:52:12 – Jeff PelizzaroThere we go, all right, and last one what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 0:52:21 – Eric SchaettyTake your medicine, take, take your medicine, take your medicine. My grandpa used to tell me all the time just take your medicine. To get in trouble, take your medicine. 0:52:31 – Jeff PelizzaroGood advice, good advice. All right, brother, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being on. Where can people go and find you? 0:52:37 – Eric SchaettyE-Shat’s 82 on Instagram. Eric Schaetty on Facebook Schaetty Fitness Consulting. Or come see us here at Empire Fitness Academy 0:52:46 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I’m going to try to twist this guy’s arm to do a little content for 18STRONG with us here too. So we’ll be. You’ll be seeing a little bit more of him as well. So all right, brother, thank you very much. Thank you, yeah. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. And if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the mission of 18STRONG, please share with a friend. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Scott Fawcett (Decade Golf)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 358Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Unlock the key to improving your golf game as we sit down with Scott Fawcett, the man behind Decade Golf. Together, we dissect the world of golf strategy, with Scott sharing his vast knowledge from his professional golf and poker background. His innovative system helps golfers at all levels understand shot patterns and make strategic decisions, thereby enhancing their performance on the course. We then venture into the art of setting efficient targets and managing expectations. This episode unravels the mystery behind strokes gained, a concept that measures a player’s performance, and its application in enhancing your game. The conversation evolves, encompassing course conditions and their impact on your game, alongside a walkthrough of the Decade system, which has already improved the performance of countless tour players. We wrap up our conversation by revealing the power of meditation in golf. Scott takes us through his preparation for the Champions Q-School, sharing his love for the game and how physical fitness and strength training can significantly up your golf game. As a bonus, Scott shares his dream celebrity foursome and his recommended reads that can help enhance not just your game, but also your overall well-being. This episode is your ticket to making smarter decisions on the course and taking your golf game to the next level! Main Topics (00:03) Decade Golf Professional golfer Scott Fawcett shares his Decade Golf system for smarter course management and lower scores. (11:52) Improving Golf Strategy and Managing Expectations Decade system improves golf performance by choosing efficient targets, measuring strokes gained, and considering course conditions. (18:58) Golf Instruction Shot patterns, mindset, putting, shape consistency, mental game, approach strategy, target commitment, and professional struggles. (23:22) Understanding Shot Patterns in Golf Understanding shot patterns leads to better decision making on the golf course and can greatly improve performance. (27:41) Golf Strategy and Tracking Statistics Nature’s DECADE acronym emphasizes choosing the correct target, considering constraints, and accurately judging wind for successful golf strategy. (38:12) Form, Golf, and Partnership Celebration Tracking statistics and playing smart golf can improve your game, as discussed with First Form and the Decade app. (44:34) Analyzing Golf Performance and Strategy Professional golfers like Cam Smith and Zach Johnson use statistics to improve performance and manage egos and variance. (54:50) Training and Preparation for Golf Q-School Fitness, injury recovery, and love for golf are discussed by a guest preparing for Champions Q-School. (01:04:21) Recommended Books, Dream Celebrity Foursome, Power Professional golfer Scott Fawcett shares his walkup song, recommended book, dream celebrity foursome, and bucket list golf courses. He also discusses the benefits of meditation for golf and overall well-being. (01:12:19) Effective Communication in Social Media Scott shares his struggle with conveying thoughts in text versus in person and encourages listeners to follow 18STRONG on Instagram. Follow Scott Fawcett and Decade Golf Instagram: @decade_golf Website: https://decade.golf/ Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 358, with Scott Fawcett, creator of Decade Golf a tour-proven course management system to shoot lower scores. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we know that everyone deserves to play better, longer. This episode is an exciting one for me. We get to talk with Scott Fawcett, the creator of Decade Golf. If you haven’t heard of Decade Golf, it’s a tour-proven course management system designed to shoot lower scores. That doesn’t mean that it’s just for tour players. This is for every level of player. In fact, scott said it’s really designed initially to help younger players learn how to manage their course and to be able to play better, so they don’t have to go out onto the tour and learn how to do all this stuff. In this episode, we talk with Scott about the Decade System, of course, and really how most of us don’t have any kind of strategy when we go out onto the golf course. We talk about how to figure out shot patterns. Should you hit the ball two different ways? Should you learn to fade it and draw it? We talk about just making better decisions on the golf course, as well as Scott’s involvement in tour players the players that he’s worked with that have gone on to win major tournaments and really how most of the tour players, in one way, shape or form, are using some sort of background in the Decade System. This is a really exciting episode because even if you’re not a very competitive golfer, you’re like me. You’re going out on golf trips with the guys You’re playing on the weekend. You’re trying to win your club championship. This is also for you, so don’t think that this is a super complicated thing. That’s only for the tour level players. So we’re going to get into all of that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strongcom slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview Got faucet. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. 0:02:40 – Scott FawcettHey, thank you. Thank you very much. I’ve always enjoyed these conversations. 0:02:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, man. So this is really exciting. I alluded to this in an email that I was just on a golf trip with a bunch of buddies to Nashville and really wish that I would have had this podcast episode done. So I had a little more tools than the tool belt before going out there. But so Decade Golf obviously has become, I mean, just kind of blown up over the last several years. Give me just a little bit of the brief history for people that maybe don’t know Decade and don’t know kind of the story and the golfer that you worked with initially right out of the gate, that really kind of blew this thing up. 0:03:16 – Scott FawcettSure, you know I played golf at Texas A&M, got finance and economics degrees and played professionally unsuccessfully. Oh, I say that for six years out of college. I won a couple of times on the Hooters Tour unsuccessfully, meaning I did make it the PJ Tour, but I was pretty solid otherwise and then started an energy company when Texas D regulated back in 2002, which is technically still my day job but right around that time I started playing a lot of poker, which, again, I’ve studied finance and econ and math quite a bit. I never really thought of golf as a math game, but after studying poker in the early 2000s I started thinking like you know, if you get a bad beating poker, you’d better get your head around you or you’re just throwing money away really quick. And somehow that never dawned on me as a professional golfer the one I’m getting pissed off that I’m just throwing money away, but apparently I’m not that smart. But so then in 2011, they started releasing the Strokes Gain statistics and I kind of realized that with the shot patterns stuff we had, there was just like a little idea there that started kind of turning in 2011. And then in 2013, when they released the entire Strokes Gain catalog, I was like that’s exactly what I needed. I didn’t realize that they were tracking that much data with Strokes Gain. But I just realized that we could combine shot patterns from launch monitors like a four-side quad into and then combine it with the strokes to hold out. Then it’s just a giant weighted average math problem essentially. And I guess what’s funny, I spoke at MIT in Wharton last year and I’m like guys, this is just weighted average math. This is not really very advanced stuff. I’ve never felt dumber in my life, but I actually caught. I was telling somebody about this just yesterday. I wouldn’t have thought of it otherwise, but in the 2013 US Mid-Am I caught a root on the second hole and really hurt my right elbow, wound up shooting 83 and called it a day after 18 holes, so I could just go ahead and head on back to Dallas because it was not good. Well, that’s the same elbow that the week before the Texas Am. That’s right around the time that I started doing all of this work and was planning on playing a lot of golf in the summer of 2014. And the week before the Texas Am, I got a quarter zone shot of my right elbow and the doctor actually paralyzed my right arm for a couple of days, which, yeah, it was pretty wild. I mean, my arm just kind of folded up and he was like I mean he was using a sonogram. He’s the Mavericks team doctor, so I wasn’t concerned until I went back and he’s like, oh yeah, I thought I paralyzed your arm. I was like, oh really, because it just literally curled up like this and I could pull it down and sit on it. But obviously I can’t play golf with a paralyzed arm. But once it came back to life a couple of days later, he was like I would let, I would take a couple of months and not play, because I would let it just whatever would happen in there really clean itself out. And so Will Zalatoris, who I used to have to tell everyone who that is he was just a 17 year old junior golfer at my home course. I just and I’ve known him since I was on the corn fairy tour in 2009, which was right around the time he moved to Dallas from San Francisco. So he’s just a nine year old kid out there, 10, 12 year old kid, whatever and just following me around like a puppy dog. So he and I had been doing chipping and putting and playing and everything, since he was literally single digits of age. And so I called him and I was like, let’s go grab some lunch, I’m going to explain something to you. And so I kind of showed him what I did with the math and the strategy, because I mean, he’s a great ball striker now, obviously, but he was just as good back then. I mean he really was unbelievable and just kind of explained it all to him and I was like, let me catty for you next week, let me just try to play you like a video game. He was like absolutely Cause again at the time he was 3,300 in the world in the junior rankings, had never really won anything at all. And I cattyed for him and he won the Texas sandbite Now I can’t even remember if it was either three or four shot four straight under par rounds, which he’d never done before in a tournament, and just on and on. And you know it was just interesting breaking down after the fact because so much about it was just expectation management, not having ridiculous expectations, and then obviously playing approach shots correctly with, with targeting, that is so, since he’s such a good ball striker and he definitely was struggling with his playing back then also. So he’s trying to make birdies with his approach shots instead of just saying you know what? I’m probably going to birdie the par fives. I’m going to make my birdies on these par fours just within the variance, within my shot pattern, meaning I don’t even have to aim at a hole and I’ll accidentally polar push it every so often. And then it’s really about bogey avoidance, which again and we’ll talk about this a million times over throughout the thing but catty from the area one. He qualified for the US junior the following month I went down and catty for him in Houston anyone. And then that’s just really where, like I say that, the SMU coach came up to me at the US juniors, like I don’t know what you’re teaching him, but I think you’ve got something to teach these kids because you just had no idea. I’ve known him since we were in college. He played at SMU while I was at A&M, so you should have no idea how dumb these kids are. Like we were at the same time. And so a month or two later he asked me if I would come teach it all to Bryson DeShambo. Obviously, depending, bryson is one of those names you can be, can be just a one word name, even though it’s not like Tiger or something like that. So I go teach it to DeShambo. A couple of months later he wins the NCAAs. And it was just funny because, looking back at it, everybody has got crazy talent. I mean, even the listeners think they should have shot lower every single time they play. These guys are no different. That’s when a 10 handicap thinks they’re going to be happy. When they’re finally a scratch, it’s like no, you’re not. You’re 25%ile of worse rounds, feel just as bad or even worse, because you feel super stupid because you’re a scratch, you know. So it’s just about taking these young players and just cleaning up their thought process, picking better targets, having more reasonable expectations, and so next thing, you know, I’ve, you know like last year I have 11 of the top 15 players from PGA Tour. University were decade members in college, 17 of the top 30 from this year’s corn fairy class. I mean, it’s just hilarious how these young players just clean up their brain a little bit. You know, we used to always think that you had to get out on tour and learn all the shots to start making in your early thirties, and hindsight it’s like no, you needed to get older, get a prefrontal cortex that actually functions, then screw it up for a couple of years to finally learn your lesson. And here we are in 32, an actual adult. 0:09:10 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean I, you know, I look at myself, I look at my buddies I look at and many of us that didn’t play golf growing up, you know, now it’s a, it’s a huge passion of ours and many of us are just recreational between you know, say, a five and 15, maybe even 20 caps. But even just you know us as 40 year old guys. I’m like man. How much can we gain simply by understanding how to play the game better? And I have a son I was mentioning. He’s 15 years old, made the freshman golf team last year but he’s really just kind of getting into any kind of competitive golf and I’m like man. This is the stuff that really I need to put in front of him right now so he can kind of learn that. 0:09:47 – Scott FawcettI think that somehow the best players just intuitively figured it out, and Tiger would actually be one of the few that didn’t, until he turned pro. He was just so much better than everyone physically and hit it so much further than everyone that he could crush junior and amateur golf, and I’m sure he would have had a great career. But I’ve got this one video in the app where it’s from the same video, when Curtis Strange is asking him what would be a good finish this week and he’s like first and second sucks. And Curtis tells him you’ll win or you’ll learn, rather. And then it’s like no, you will actually Curtis, but yeah. And then the later in that video, that same interview though, he said you know what’s kind of some of the learning you’ve done since you’ve been out here? He said that he had played with Nick Price the prior year in the US Open and he said that after the first round he shot like 65 or six and was leading. And he asked me you know like how many pins do you fire today? He said he said he fired it too. And then he went out the next day and did the same thing after the round he asked me he said like two again and Tiger’s like well, here I was firing at every single one of them and Nick at the time was number one in the world and, you know, crushing everything and I really think that was probably the most important 36 holes of his life to realize there might be more to this than just bludgeoning a golf course. And that’s where you can really. It’s fun going back and listening to a lot of his interviews now because, man, you can really so much if it sounds like sports cliche, but you can really pick up a ton of stuff. And one of my favorite ones I remember is I can remember if it was the US Open or if it was, I think it was just a tournament at Torrey. But they asked him and Joe Lacové after the round they said you know what was the best shot you hit all day? And in unison, immediately they both said the three iron on whichever hole. That par three is on the back. And I was like there’s no chance that ball is going to be within 30 feet of the hole. But they both immediately any par three out there that you’ve got a three iron in your hand, there’s no chance the holes is target. And I just listened to that. I went back and found it. I think the shot was like 42 feet from the hole and it’s like they both said it was an absolute laser beam that is targeting and it’s like there you go, this guy’s. You know. I’m not saying anyone should be firing three irons at flags, but like they both knew that was such a good shot and was obvious where their target was. And again, just learning how to play the game correctly, like I say, it’s just that. It’s. It’s this thing I say all the time. But if you feel like you should have shot lower, there’s only one of two things possible You’re either not as good as you think you are or you made mental and strategic mistakes. There can literally be nothing else. It’s one of those two, and so once you get people, no one wants to admit they’re not as good as they think they are. So then they’re like all right. Well, maybe I’ll turn this stone over and I mean again just a hundred percent of our decade members improve. I mean it’s. I feel like such a snake oil salesman saying that, but literally everybody gets better because we can just track their stats and data. Just pull your head out of your butt. 0:12:28 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, I mean, I think that most people have no idea, really any kind of strategy. I shouldn’t say most people. I’m thinking a lot of the recreational guys, a lot of the golfers that you know are at the country clubs that aren’t tracking hardly anything in. As I was watching some of your videos on your website, you said that decade the name actually stands for six steps to choosing a target and playing efficient, patient, disciplined golf, and that doesn’t describe many of the golfers that I know. It describes none of them. 0:12:57 – Scott FawcettWell, it’s the thing that popped in my head when you said you know you’re trying to be kind by saying you know some people played with good strategies. Like no, literally everybody played with poor strategy back in the day, or at a minimum they might have chosen some good targets, but then they also had a bunch of cliches like favor this angle, leave it below the hole. You know all these other things that are just patently incorrect for no doubt a net negative. I mean, there just literally is nobody Tiger excluded, in my opinion, that probably played with just perfect patient strategy. 0:13:28 – Jeff PelizzaroCan you for all of us that you know? Strokes gain has become a huge term in the world of golf these days. We’ve actually had Mark Brody on the show a couple of years ago. But can you give us a refresher on what exactly strokes gain means, in the simplest form possible? 0:13:43 – Scott FawcettYeah, what you got to start doing is, rather than thinking of a shot in a certain amount of feet for a putt, or a certain amount of yards for an approach shot, you’ve got to start thinking in shots to hole out. So, generically, we know that from eight feet the pros are 50-50. So it takes an average of 1.5 strokes to hole out. You know it’s basically a coin flip from eight feet. So if I make an eight foot putt, I’ve moved it one and a half strokes closer to the hole in one stroke. So I gained a half a shot against my expectation. If I two putt it, I’ve moved it two shots. In essence lost a half a shot of expectation. So then you just know, from every single inch on the golf course, so from 100 yards in the fairway, it’s 2.8 shots to hole out. A 400 yard par four is where they average 3.98, basically four shots. And again, this is what’s funny is most people would, when they walk up to a 400 yard par four they’re like, okay, this is an easy hole, it’s a birdie hole. Like no, no, no, no, it’s an easy hole, it’s a hole you’ve got a better chance of making par on On tour. They’re not making birdie that often. I mean it’s just, it’s amazing Again, once you just kind of know some of these numbers. And again, they’ve marked Brody because obviously he’s a brilliant man. They’ve got a number of ways that they adjust for course conditions. So it’s not like all this is one of the things the announcers constantly get wrong, or anyone who wants to try to be like a naysayer is they’re like well, not all eight foot putts are the same. It’s like yeah, that’s why we have a daily adjustment on tour. Now, yes, generically, if I’m sitting here catting for you, I’m going to tell you this is about 50-50, but realistically it’s about like 1.47 to 1.53. It’s just not as big of a difference as most people think to be this spot versus that spot. And again, the second year, the first year rather of decade, is expectation. I don’t know that. I would have realistically known how important that was until just seeing the success of this year after year after year. I mean it’s funny because a guy like David Ogren won a couple of times out on tour. He’s catting for the 15-year-old that cattied for Bermuda next week. He’s one of his students and so David asked me the other day if we could hop on a call just so he could ask me some questions about how to catty and work with these kids’ brains and stuff. And the number one thing I told him was just to literally tell him the expected value from every shot. So just if you have to have a card in your hand, knock yourself out and just hey, right, here we are, 165 yards in the fairway. Make a three here and that’s two or average. Again, a lot of tourist players will say I don’t want to be two or average. It’s like, again, that’s not really the right way of looking at this. But if you beat this average by 3.97 and it’s four, that’s three-hundredths of a shot. But if you did that 18 times, it’s over half a shot. You’re one of the best players on the planet. That’s where, again, you just have to start thinking in fractions of shots, because not only can you only gain shots in fractions of shots, you also can really only lose shots in fractions of shots. So even if we go on to a hard hole that has like a 4.4 scoring average, if you make bogey there, yes, you dropped a shot to par. That’s kind of irrelevant. You dropped a half or a point six shots to the field in your competition. That’s not as painful and like it’s not. It’s really just not that big of a deal. But when you start making a double on a hole like that because you tried something stupid from the trees, now you’ve lost one point six shots instead of point six shots. It’s literally almost three times as bad because again you’ve got to wrap your head around that you can only gain them back in tenths of a shot also. So it really is. Yeah, it’s only one shot worse to par, but it’s actually three times ish as bad when you factor in how you’ve got to make it up. 0:17:26 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you’re talking about managing the expectations. I mean, I look at it as what you just said is this is just going to help you keep from doing stupid things, like making those stupid decisions right. I mean, how many times have we hit it, hit it left, hit it in the trees? It’s a par five. Well, now I’m going to make up that for that shot. And I got to go try this. So the first time I heard about Decade and started looking into it, I was like man, this seems a little bit complicated. Where do I even start? And then I know that you guys have now kind of even scaled down to the foundations where you have kind of a lower grade level, not for the tour players but for the guys more like myself and my buddies. So where does somebody initially start with when they’re starting to get into Decade? What’s the first step that they start to look at? 0:18:12 – Scott FawcettWell, it’s funny because even when I used to do so, I created a seminar when coach Enlo wanted me to come work for Bryson. He’s like it has to be done indoors because otherwise they would consider me a third paid coach. So I created this indoor seminar, shot a bunch of drone footage and went in and we were giving it and with my seminar it used to be just straight into approach shot strategy, tee shot strategy, putting strategy, and then I ended with an hour of mental stuff and throughout giving the seminar, multiple times, the mental stuff started working its way in earlier in the session and I’d be like well, we’re going to get to this later. I’m going to explain it to you now. And literally I completely wound up flipping it because, again, as a self described lunatic, I used to be the biggest basket case on the course back in the day, and so that’s where we start now. So when you get the app, the first channel is technically titled getting started, and it is just about here’s how shop patterns work, here’s the realities of putting. Here’s a few simple ways to pipe. Here’s why hitting one shape in a stock shot over and over and over and over again so important. So there’s probably an hours worth of content just on. Hey, this is step one of pulling our head out of our butt. And then the next section is the mental section, which is where I explain Dr Lardon’s scorecard, which is a stat we talk about. You know just how you do. Anything is everything. So there’s like five or six videos in that. And then we finally get into approach shot strategy, because I definitely have just realized if you don’t have the base, you’re just going to blow through the rest of it so fast that you’re really not going to learn it. And that’s the whole reason with the foundations is I want people to digest it. So month one is you just get the getting started stuff and then three weeks later we give you a little bit more. So what I’m really doing it’s technically all the same content, but it’s rather than you getting all of it the day you purchase it, you get it basically over about four months, every three weeks, because I want you to take the three weeks and then what I’ll say in the last video of that series, like, okay, I want you to take the next couple of weeks when you get out, hit balls, be looking for this, be looking for that, noticing your shot pattern. That’s why I have people hit at the same target all the way through the bag, because I want you to be centering your shot pattern over your ultimate target. You know missing roughly half left and half right. When you’re changing targets all the time, you don’t really get as good of a feel for that, and so one of the main things that, like professionals, get wrong and I definitely got wrong was I feel like I chose good targets back in the day but then I didn’t actually try to hit it there. I would choose a target with a seven out of maybe five or six yards right of a flag and then I would think, okay, well, I hope I pulled this a little bit. And again, I don’t. I don’t know at what point you get good enough. I know a 30 handicap doesn’t have that thought, so I don’t know at what point you get good enough that that thought starts creeping in. Because I do feel like listeners have to be like are you serious? Yes, 90% of the PGA tour I mean probably not as much anymore, but 50%. Certainly a couple of the noun 90% a couple of years ago would have that thought five or six times a day and I do believe that that’s where the outlier shots come from is just this lack of commitment. So that’s, we start with shot patterns and mindset and commitment, because that is that is the main thing I actually think I’m teaching. 0:21:20 – Jeff PelizzaroI love that you, you almost you kind of force feed us just a little bit so we can’t jump ahead and get ahead of ourselves and dive into the stuff that we want to learn. 0:21:27 – Scott FawcettAnd you know, because you naturally want to get right out to the range and go beat balls and but having that mindset, and I don’t think the production quality is that great, because it’s literally me, just a golfer and an electricity salesman just voicing over PowerPoints and you’re. So it’s not the highest quality content but the the information in it is exactly that. I mean it is just tailored for players like us who just I mean again, that’s the whole reason it goes slow, because it’s like I think that most people actually enjoy the content and I feel fear that they would binge watch it. Then I mean most I get. I get nothing but comments. I mean, yeah, it’s not, it’s not obviously produced in a, in a Hollywood studio. But man, I just can’t stop watching these videos and I’m like that’s exactly why I have to force you to stop watching them. 0:22:14 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, absolutely so. Talk to me a little bit about shot patterns and you know how, how you describe it to us and and I mean the relevance of it, and then also picking targets and and how we can kind of get a little bit better. Obviously, that’s what a lot of this program’s about, so we want them to get into the program, but give us some some scoop there, sure. 0:22:32 – Scott FawcettI mean shot patterns are just, they’re shockingly large. I mean everybody thinks that like a tour player has just got total control over it and they’re just huge. Which is why I like on reachable par fours Number six at wing foot immediately pops to mind where the layup is about 200 off the tee to leave about a hundred yards. And you know it’s just a, it’s a dead if you ship it up there around the green and then you you’re on the wrong spot but it’s, the fairway is only 20 yards wide at 200. Like, those guys aren’t going to hit that much more than about 70% of the time and so now 30% of the time you’re sitting back there in the rough. But. But so that that’s just an indication of how big shot patterns actually are. Again, with just a five or six iron for those guys they will not hit a 20 yards fairway nearly as much as you think. Now if we step it all the way back to driver, I mean they’re just massive. I mean there there are holes on the PGA tour where the shot patterns a hundred plus yards wide on a hole, that’s like they’re kind of all aiming. It’s not like this is a some huge hole at Pacific dunes or whatever band and dunes, wherever it is that all the architecture lovers love with the, with the angles, number 11 at TPC Sawgrass has a lake on the left and a desert on the right and the shot pattern is literally 80 plus yards wide every single year. And I mean, once you understand that again, like now, if we come up to a hole that dog legs left around a lake like number 18 at Sawgrass, it used to be a fader like me. We’d get up there and try to hit a draw, to work it in, it’s like, or you could just. If my shot pattern is roughly 70 yards wide with driver, I can just aim 35 yards right of the furthest pile on, I can carry and then just hammer driver, I’m kind of crossing my fingers, I hit it left, but I’m certainly not hoping I hit it left because if I do this four times it should work out to about 50, 50 or what I talk about. Winning requires luck so much. It’s also possible that just three out of the four days I happen to pull it on 18 and I’m sitting out there in the fairway. That’s, that’s just luck and that’s really convenient. So just understanding shot patterns and how to manage them around the golf course is just again literally everything. But what people need to do is kind of go hit 20 or 30 balls with the same club at the same target and just notice where it’s going. I mean, that was definitely once Will and I agreed at lunch that I was going to come loop form the Texas Sam. We went straight out to Ben tree here in Dallas cause I was like I really feel like getting him to commit to targets is the hardest part, like like in a pre mortem. What’s going to go wrong if this goes wrong, he’s going to be hoping he pulls stuff. So we went out there and I literally just sat behind him with a yellow notepad and we just had him hit balls at the same flag and I was just kind of dotting how far left and right each one was and then just kind of showed him like look at this. I mean I’ll give the kid credit. First of all, he did actually center his shot pattern directly over the target, which most people will be skewed one direction or the other. And but what’s amazing is in back then. I didn’t really know the numbers yet but I was like I mean this is incredible. Man from 180 yards. The vast majority of your shots are within 10 yards left and right of the flag here. And he was like, is that good? I’m like I don’t really know, but it seems good, cause now I think about you out there at that distance on a golf course and basically never missing the green. Yeah, that’s really good. But also what he had to notice was if we’re on a 20 yard wide green and we are aiming at the middle of the green, if the pins on the left, right, like I don’t really care where the flag is One of these shots that I just kind of handmade a track man scatterplot. I didn’t really have access to attract men in 2014. I just kind of handmade a track man scatterplot and just illustrated that to him. And again, I’ll give him all the credit in the world because that was definitely the one thing. I thought he’d screw up and just went out there in the golf tournament and this is what’s funny. I’m just gonna give him the first nine holes. He literally hit every single shot exactly where I told him to and I was sitting there like I’m pretty sure this kid would have shot lower if I wasn’t cadding today, because he would have stuffed a whole bunch, but he shot like 67, because he played the par-five as well. And then we came out the next day and he just hit it all over the face, all over the lot. He was super nervous and he grounded out a 70. And I was like, wow, that’s the difference. That should have been like a 76 with the way he hit it and where his frustration level would have been in patience and just everything. If this had been the prior week, it for sure would have been a 76. And, like I say, just understanding the realities of shot patterns and the realities of resultant expectation, just what is your expected value score from any given spot on the course? It’s just hard to get mad or frustrated. Again, trust me you can, but it’s just a lot harder. 0:27:15 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I’ve heard you talk about it in regards to like a shotgun, right, like you see, the pellets spray, and many times when we’re looking at a pin or a target, I think we think so much left to right, but also that shot pattern goes forward and backwards, right. So talk to me a little bit about like par-threes Most people are, or even just from the fairway people are talking about center of the green, center of the green, but that’s not always the case, right? 0:27:41 – Scott FawcettNo, definitely not Again. Like this is where a lot of people who like to give me a hard time they’re just like oh, center of the green, how’s this guy making money Just telling people to hit at the center of the green? I’m like it’s not even close to that. Center of the green on number 18 at St Andrew’s, when the green is 50 yards wide and you’re probably about 40 yards. That’s really bad advice. Center of the green on number 10 at Pebble Beach, where the green is only 17 yards wide and there’s an ocean on the right. That’s also really bad advice because you should be aiming almost at the left edge of the green. So really you know again, that’s just the decade acronym D distance. How far are we? We’ll skip the E because it’s expectation C. Correct target is your target based on the length of the shot. And then A analyze is analyzing the surrounding hazards, and that’s again just, it’s just not as simple as middle of the green and that’s something you said earlier too about. Like it kind of seems a little complicated and like it is. It is complicated because golf is a complicated game. That’s again, I’m just giving you a hard time but like, trust me, that’s the main thing I get all the time too, and I’m like, well, what’s more complicated, chess or checkers? Well, checkers, do you think you could beat a grandmaster at chess? I highly doubt it. I don’t care who the best player in the world is at checkers, like they’re probably not that much better than you are. It’s a pretty straightforward game, yeah, so just really understanding that choosing your target based on the constraints of the shot is by far what you need to be doing. And again, center of the green is just, I mean, it’s the correct thing, a lot, but also it’s not. I mean, there’s a number of times Mark Brody did a study on this where he was just showing he was just an eight iron, just like 170 yard shot to a back left pin, and he did the calculus with the shot pattern centered over the target and over the middle of the green and then also over the optimal target, and the middle of the green was worse than aiming directly at the flag, like. So there’s this inflection point, typically between the flag and the middle of the green, and I’ll say, like I’ve got super lucky on the system that I came up with, like I did a lot of math and I could do a lot of math in my head to come up with the targets. I got super lucky that it’s actually a pretty easy system to teach people to do again, based on this baseline number and the analysis that you do in your practice rounds. But the long and short where you originally went, we’re going with your question. I mean, people just suck to front hole locations and it’s just because you can’t over peer a shot. So if you’ve hit a seven iron 170, a single time in your life, you’re like that’s my perfect 170 club. And it’s like well, I don’t want to be negative, but you average 160 with it. And to back pins and front pins you can largely get away with it. But to front hole locations you simply can. And this is again even for tour players. Like anytime I’m working with a new tour player, I’m always just like well, I mean those amateurs on Wednesday, they’re just idiots. They have no clue how far the ball goes. And they’re like, oh my God, that’s just hilarious. I’m like, yeah, you don’t either. It’s less awful, but you’re still wrong by two or three yards. And now when the pins on the front and it’s five or six yards on and you don’t know how far you carry this club by two or three yards. That’s probably an extra 25% of the time you’re coming up short. And this is what’s hard is, yeah, I want you to carry it probably past that pin and if you hit it, perfect, you’re probably gonna have 30 or 35 feet coming back. But that’s better than you’re gonna be short. Chipping from short, which is probably below the level of the green, which is terrible. Probably in rougher a bunker Like that’s not good either, and so you just really you need to hit 30 or 40 balls. This is why I mean I don’t like just coming on and bashing Arcos, but I heard they were bashing me the other day. So whatever, this is where just telling me the average of the length of how far you hit every seven iron, that’s really pretty useless information. It’s better than nothing, but into the wind hurts more than downwind helps. Was I punching it? Was I ripping it up? Like there’s just more to it and again, like it’s great for a 10 ish handicap, 15 handicap. I’m sure that there’s enough information in there, but if you actually want to be good at this game, you need to know how far you carry every club in a static, zero wind, zero altitude or your home altitude environment, and then you need to figure out how to play for it, which guys like Jeff Smith and other people two instructors that have they’ve got the system now that my understanding is an FBI ballistics expert came up with it on how to rate, how to play and judge into the wind and downwind and crosswinds Towards. Now that’s just, it’s every caddy on tour will just have this little card in their in their yardage book cover that tells you basically exactly what the wind’s gonna do to every shot. Now, obviously, if you’re saying it’s 10 miles an hour, it’s blowing five to 15, so we still got that variable. But as long as you can put a pretty decent average number on it, the wind is almost irrelevant anymore. There’s just so much stuff like that that I don’t think people at home really realize. 0:32:40 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat. So what are the things that we tend to track? Or many don’t track anything, but what are some of the things that we tend to track that really you’re like that doesn’t even matter. And then what are the things I know? On your website you’ve got the five things that we should be tracking. So what are some of those, if you wanna share those with us? 0:32:57 – Scott FawcettTotal putts is beyond useless fairways hit, I mean, as long as it’s over 50-ish percent. I’m gonna need more information to like do you hit it 320,? Do you hit it 240? Like, I’m gonna need more information. Greens and regulation is great, and this is where Mark Brody and I were actually playing golf at Pinehurst a couple of years ago during the golf magazine Top 100. And the guy I think was Kordie Walker that was walking on and playing with us was like what’s the most important stat to track? And I was like well, I mean, I guess Greens and Regulation is the most correlated to score. So I guess Greens and Regulation and Mark cause he’s a billion times smarter than me he jumps in and he’s like well, if you think about it, scott, if you know that it’s pretty much perfectly correlated with score, you don’t really need to track Greens and Regulation, cause if you tell me you hit 60% of the Greens and Regulation, I can pretty much tell you what your average score is and vice versa. And I’m like yeah, that makes total sense. So you know, the Strokes Gain putting is a pretty good metric without being on tour. Everything else is pretty flawed using Strokes Gain Again. This is why, as a guy who sells a stats portal for a living. I try to always make people know like the stats is secondary. The point of decade is not statistics, it’s to teach you how to score so you can figure this stuff out on your own, because all the Strokes Gain stuff on tour we’ve got daily adjustments but it’s your home course. If you’re playing Harbor Town and I’m playing Augusta and we’re using the same benchmarks for Strokes Gain driving, that’s not gonna go well for you, cause you’re gonna be hitting a lot of two irons off the T’s and you’re gonna be hitting them in trees and I’m gonna hit driver on every single hole and I’m not gonna hit the trees that much. And so if you’re just using distance off the T again, there’s just a number of things that are flawed, but that’s what you alluded to a second ago. The five stats everyone should be tracking back in the late nineties. I mean, yes, tiger was doing great, but I think he won maybe three times in like 97 or eight, and then each other year was just a win. I mean it wasn’t like he was crushing it and he won eight of the last 11, I believe in 99. And my understanding is he basically started tracking. Okay, when I finish around and think I should have shot lower, why? What is it Like? It’s not cause I’ve missed a green with a four iron, it’s cause I missed the silly, this easy up and down, or I made a bogey with a wedge, or I three putted from 20 feet Like. Those are the ones that we want to identify. So Tiger came up with these five statistics double bogeys, bogeys on par fives. He tracked bogey with nine iron or less. But considering how far the ball goes and everything now and what I think, he probably hit nine or maybe I just say bogeys from inside 150, blown easy save and three putts. And again, blown easy save is subjective to his opinion. So I just have players track how many two chips. And again, if you sit down after around a golf and you think I should have shot lower and it’s not one of those five, you’re kidding yourself. I mean, that’s the situation of you’re not as good as you think you are. But if it’s one of those five, I mean again, obviously a 10 handicap is just gonna make bogeys from 140 and they’re gonna three putt. But even Tiger, it wasn’t no blown easy saves, it’s how many? Tiger figured out that if he could keep those five things to six or less, so one and a half around. I mean, again, if you think about it, that’s none. I mean that’s a decent amount of pretty dumb stuff he would win. And the actual number it’s like 6.2. Like, again, you can’t really do the blown easy saves, but the actual number when you go through and do a little math on it he was right around correct of what you needed to have a top five finish on tour, cause most of that’s just scoring data that we can go back in and actually analyze. And again, this is where when I say like I was a lunatic in my twenties, like I literally would go get all pissed off, not go to Chili’s with my buddies and talk about all the dumb stuff I did that day and then never think about it again. And here’s Tiger doing the same stuff literally at the same time. I mean I graduated from college at the same time and he’s like, well, I’d like to stop doing that and I’m just like man, this is frustrating, it’s shocker. He did better than I did, right. 0:37:08 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st phorm. 1st phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products, but really it’s the dedication to them, them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community, and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually letting them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partnered with 1st phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them Either. We use them on a regular basis. So you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st phorm. You can go to their website, 1stphorm.com forward slash 18STRONG, and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stphorm.com that’s P-H-O-R-M dot com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products. It’s including some of their fitness apparel and anything that is purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So when, after your round, you track those things, you see okay, I did this, I had this many three putts. Then what do we do with that? How do we take that and get better at it, as opposed to just what you were just saying, like, okay, tomorrow I’ll just count them up again. 0:39:21 – Scott FawcettWell, obviously, if you’re tracking them in the decade app, we send you content once a week based on your statistics. So, yeah, we’ll send you a video like hey, we noticed you made a couple bogeys with a wedge or did this or that or whatever. There’s 200 plus videos that are just like five-ish minutes long, that are kind of in this back catalog behind the scenes, and so it goes through. I could say some artificial intelligence sounds smarter than it is, but it’s a little bit of AI. Figures out which ones it sends you. Sends you stuff again each week, but if you’re tracking them on your own, it’s. There was a player on tour that he was wanting me to find something from to work on a couple of years ago and I’m like honestly, your scoring average he’s a fader. Like your scoring average from the left rough sucks. It’s like a 0.3 or 0.4 shots higher than from the right rough. I don’t really have any advice for you on that, other than notice, the next time you’re in the left rough and I trying something that’s probably a little bit harder than I need to here, I don’t really know what to tell you other than that, because I can’t see each shot and the main thing that I would tell people that want to go out and track the Tiger Five mistakes is just make them less and the next time, whichever one you’re really you’re having a bunch of, you need to be aware the next time you’re in that situation Like you know what, I’m making a lot of bogies from inside 150. I’m 120 here let’s really think this shot through, what’s my target, what’s the surrounding hazards, and then really commit and really try to make a par here. Again, it sounds dumb, but that’s the exact advice I give to our players. So, if a tour player sometimes, like you know, I’m really struggling with my gap wedge right now let’s just don’t screw this one up. And again, I don’t need you to make many birdies to average 2.9. But you just can’t make bogies. I just cannot make bogies. And again, that’s just some of the funny parts about it. There’s so many of the older guys that I’ve talked with tour players. There’s like when we were down the tiger, we just knew we couldn’t catch him because he wasn’t going to help us. And I’m like, yeah, that’s A, he’s really good, I get it. I’m not oblivious to that. But also, if you’re really good and you’re out there just trying to avoid those five mistakes. Again, I don’t really care what he says in some of his interviews and stuff where he’s like, well, you got to get the hammer down here and there and whatever and I’ve analyzed 20,000 of his shots by hand where the targets had to have been based on the sum of all of them I just don’t think that he really changed much. He just went out there and he tried to play good, smart golf from the first to the 72nd hole. And, like I say, I’m probably about to make a total idiot on myself and champions to her Q-School here in a couple weeks because I’ve not played golf in months. But I also there’s part of me that feels a little bit confident that if I can just get on the course a couple times to do some putting drills, I’m going to outthink these guys just for sure. I mean just there’s no doubt about it. I’m going to play more patient, discipline golf and a lot of times in a Q school. It’s about just not doing dumb stuff more than it is doing incredible stuff. And then if you’re taking that same mindset into your club championship or into a full tour series, it’s like if I do the right thing. For 54 straight holes, there’s a much better chance of me coming out on top. Just a little bit of luck, I mean still going to have to. You know, if you’re, if you’ve got 20 guys, they’re all kind of the same You’re still going to have to have a little bit of luck to for it to go your way, but you can certainly ensure you’re going to play well. 0:42:43 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, that’s, that’s what I’m thinking is like knowing that most people out there, especially in a club championship or you know, like some kind of a guys trip or like nobody has any strict strategy around what they’re doing out there. You know, my, we have a rider cup that we do every single year with a bunch of college buddies, wide range of players, and unfortunately I wasn’t able to make this year, but the guy that’s the captain next year, he’s like we’ve lost the last two. We got to do something this year and I’m like you know what this? I’m going to talk to all the guys on the team and just implement a little bit of strategy and it’s bound to give you quite a bit of an edge over all the other knuckleheads that are out there playing. And, you know, going to your point of managing expectations, you know I feel like so many of us feel like we’re disappointed because, simply because of our expectations, going out thinking this is a birdie hole and, like you said, no, this is just a don’t bogey hole. Or I was just talking to a client the other day and he’s like I’m really working on trying to hit the ball from right to left. He’s, you know, naturally hits the left to right and I’m like hold on a second. I’m talking to Scott Fawcett this week and I don’t think he’s going to approve of that. 0:43:53 – Scott FawcettNo, I mean, again, it’s just trying to shape the ball both directions is so overrated it’s unbelievable. I mean, and again, this this guy that just graduated from the corn fairy tour, that had an hour long conversation with yesterday, that was the one that was the most impressive, that was the one thing you want to talk about is like firm greens and shaping the ball. He’s a fader and shaping it to like a cleft pins and stuff. I’m like my definition. What you’re laying out for me is a hole that’s going to have a high scoring average. You don’t have holes that you’ve got 180 and firm greens into aren’t going to play several tenths of a shot over par. Like it just doesn’t happen. So if we can get that ball on the green and make a par again, this is the way you’ve got to think of this. Math is Okay if it. When when Cam Smith won the tour championship or not, the the the tournament champions a couple of years ago, he was 34 under par and he was 14 shots clear of the field average. The year that Zach Johnson won the Masters and all the announcers like to talk about, well, he didn’t go for a single par five. They kind of lead out the fact that nobody did that week. Literally he won it one over. It was miserable, it was 45 degrees and misting, like it was not. So he didn’t win because he didn’t lay up, he won because everybody else laid up. He was laying up anyways. And it’s just like about understanding these very basic mathematical odds. So if they’re both 14 shots clear of the field average and if we’re on a hole, that because of the firm greens and all this stuff, it’s playing with 4.2. If you can just take this shot and put it on the green and two put it, you’ve gained two tenths of a shot. That same kind of a shot. If you did that 72 times, you would be over 15 shots clear of the field average. You would literally win a hundred percent of your starts on tour with as I’m describing this to tour players 90 percent of the time. They’re like well, that’s not that hard to do. I’m like then I would do that. And that’s again where, once you start getting these younger guys to think this way, I mean again I hate like saying the sky’s the limit, but that’s why I mean just every single one of them is has got, whether they’ve, whether they’ve got actual decade background or not. They’ve all at least heard and understand the ideas now. And that’s why you’re just seeing every I mean just scores are dropping and just yeah, it’s just the games. We make the game way harder than it has to be. It’s actually I haven’t even thought of this thing in like five years, but it’s this paradox that golf is so hard that you have to play it correctly, which then actually makes it relatively easy. I mean, if you just eliminate doing all the dumb stuff we do every single day, that’s half the battle. 0:46:25 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s what’s been the biggest challenge? Working with some of the best players in the world. You know you got these guys that. I would assume you know there’s probably some egos involved. There’s guys that think that you know they can, they know their yardages, they know, they know how well they hit it. They hit it better than anyone. What’s that been like? Trying to temper that. 0:46:46 – Scott FawcettJust using math at them. I mean again, that’s, that’s it. I mean just literally stating here’s the facts, these, I mean no one’s going to do better, much better than this, these averages year and year out. Because again, when I say much better, like obviously by definition, whoever’s number one is doing really well, but if you break it down like per hole, it’s just not that much. I mean again, if you’re, if you’re gaining nine tenths of a shot in any given category, whether it’s approach or putture, putting or whatever, like you’re probably leading or right there at it, it’s 0.05 shots per hole. And again, like I realize doing that every single hole is a lot, but once you look at it on a per hole basis, it’s just not. Again, it’s indistinguishable for the most part. And that’s again where I do believe that the majority of the players that are just great, consistently, somehow, some way they just understood this stuff at a young age. 0:47:42 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you look at a guy like Scheffler, who had a year where his I think his scoring average was one of the lowest ever, but his putting was he was also one of the worst statistically on tour, I believe, yeah, I mean. What do you? How do you explain that to people? I mean honestly with him. 0:48:00 – Scott FawcettI just I don’t. I mean it’s it’s interesting because variance does play such a large role and so it’s possible. One of the two players I worked with a number of years ago. I was watching and he was like minus three and change putting, and I was just like it was the first round after we had talked I was like oh my God. But I was also like you know, every single put he has is between 15 and 25 feet. Like he just kept on hitting it to 15 to 25 feet and literally within four minutes of him finishing his round, my phone rang and I picked it up. He’s like dude, that was amazing. He’s like the putting was not nearly however bad. He’s like I have no idea what he’s doing. I have no idea what the number was, but it was all over the whole day. I was like well, that’s good. Because the thing I was going to tell you is it’s entirely possible, you putted well today, but just because of having this specific range of putts and that’s what I would say with Schaeffler is it’s entirely possible. I have no idea, but it’s entirely possible he got off to just a little bit of bad luck, a little bit of bad variance through some part of the season and then started trying to fix things that weren’t potentially really broken. And then it just becomes mental and that’s. It’s sad, but man, that’s just. That’s so pervasive and that’s what I try to tell people. I actually use the stats and strokes gained to convince players I work with they’re not as bad as something, it’s something as they think they are, at a factor of 10 to one more than I use it to say here’s what you need to work on. I mean, they just ask these questions all the time to players but it’s like what do you think the average score is from blank? And I’m not kidding, 100% of the time they say a number lower than the actual expectation. I mean you would think that even if they’re all guessing too low like maybe sometimes players would guess a higher number, a 100% of the time they guess lower the actual number by a wide margin too. And again now, if you’re out there thinking from whatever, from 20 feet, you should make some certain percentage of them and then you just keep missing 20 footers. It’s pretty easy to get mental really quick, and that’s again what I did and pretty big reason why I didn’t make it. And that’s what again, once you start taking these younger players and convince them of these numbers, you have to use the data and the math to do. 0:50:10 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, and I think, watching golf a lot, obviously we’re seeing the best of the best and we’re seeing the best shots from the best of the best. So naturally, our expectations. You know, somehow we think we should be hitting shots like those, but we, you know, so it’s already hit one. 0:50:25 – Scott FawcettSo you’re like I want to get it more, more. Yes, exactly, I just do that. 0:50:30 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s crazy. It’s crazy. But then to go out and watch and follow around of those guys you know going out to. I had the chance to go out to the corn fairy tour finals and walk and follow a couple of guys and it’s like, oh man, I didn’t think the guys hit shots like that out here, and they sure do, you know. I mean, they hit it all over the place sometimes too. 0:50:51 – Scott FawcettWell, and that’s again. I made this mistake in Houston one year. I missed the Monday qualifier so I stayed at Buddy’s house and I went out. David Duvall was my man crush at the time and I went out and followed him for nine holes and I swear to God every single shot and like I’m out there just with him. He’s number one in the world. He’s just striping everything and I’m like I drove home like I can’t compete with that. It never dawned on me. I don’t have to. I don’t have to and I’m honestly not even sure if I recognized at the time, because I was like a couple of years ago I was like you know, I’ve told that story a million times how did he do in the tournament? And I went and looked at it he won by seven or eight. I’m like, yeah, the guy was playing pretty good golf at the time and it’s just, it’s just incredible. Again, it’s all. It’s such a cliche saying that golf, you know your main competitor is the course, but it really is the course, the course and the average score. I mean what everyone else is doing is literally, it’s not irrelevant to you, but it’s irrelevant to your game. It’s the only ball Some people try to take so much mindset and other studies from other sports and applying to golf and I’m like it’s just a different sport. It might be why we all love it, but it’s just a different sport because there’s no defense, there’s no shared ball, technically aside from live with the shotgun. There’s not even a mutual clock, like you just don’t know what your opponent’s going to do until it’s kind of too late and so trying to. It’s just exhausting to be running all these iterations in your head of what, these different scenarios for the win top 10, top 25, making the cut, like no matter what, there’s always some number you’re close to and again that’s. I don’t know that. I would have appreciated this until Stuart Sink. He bought the app the week before he won in Napa. So his first win in 12 years came the week after he bought the app. And then he won six months later at Harbor town. And after his win in Harbor town I went on PGA tour radio one day and we’re talking about it and then he came on the next day and his quotes super long, but it’s amazing. But there was towards the end of he’s. Like it takes the mental energy that used to be required to deliberate and make decisions like that, and decade makes the decision for me which keeps me fresh. It’s pretty simple and I like using it and I’m like I don’t know that because I’ve really in the last seven years, since eight, nine years Jesus I haven’t really played that much golf myself, and so most of the golf I played there, most of the time I was on the golf course, was caddying for will for five or six straight years in the summers and everything just cause it was so fun. And now I’m just getting to play a little bit and I don’t think that I’ve ever appreciated how valuable that aspect is, just being less tired, and one of the main things about being less tired is just stop worrying about everybody else. Again, I talk a lot about meditation and that’s. You know I used to feel pretty spooky talking about it, like I, you know, should be in California or something like that, not in Texas. But now that’s the one good thing social media has brought is the spotlight on Kobe and Jordan and Tiger, and you get so many more interviews with these people now with podcasts and everything where they’re a little more candid than they are maybe in books and stuff and they’re talking out the cuff and you just find out that so many players have some sort of meditation routine. You talked to earlier about some of the players I work with, like frustrating stuff. Like I got one guy that should be a world beater and you know he asked me at the end of last season what do I got to do to get into that top 10? And I’m like you got to stop pouting. Like you look like you could start crying at any second out there. And that’s going to come from an awareness and that’s going to come from meditation, where you’re more aware of your thoughts. You’re not just being yanked around in any direction your brain tries to lead you. You could actually be aware of what you’re thinking and then again it’s easy to say stop thinking it. That’s the skill and why having a practice? Again, we’re now talking about people that want to get to the highest level. It’s incredible how hard it is to get people to do that. And I’ve got Tiger on audio saying I play golf as a moving meditation and my mom started me doing it when I was born. I’m like there you go. You’re not going to catch up to that guy, but you better start now. It’s just so obvious that golf is a moving meditation or the zone is a moving meditation. Golf is not a moving meditation. The zone is a moving meditation. 0:55:15 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you have champions Q-School coming up, so tell us you said you haven’t been playing a whole lot, but when is it? Where is it? And then tell us a little bit about your prep. 0:55:24 – Scott FawcettYeah. So it’s interesting. I played some pretty good golf this spring and early summer and then I had four straight tournaments in July and I played pretty good. I shot 64 in the first round of the Texas State Open and had the lead as a 50 year old amateur. But then in the third round I did something to my ankle. I just I didn’t, I was just walking and I tore muscle like the ligament that goes around the back and behind your ankle. I tore somewhere where that attaches and so I had to just basically take six weeks and do nothing but ankle rehab and I literally did. I didn’t touch a club for over two months. And at this point now I’ve played golf twice since July. I’ve got a simulator here in my house, so I’ve started hitting balls probably twice a week in the last three weeks just to start, like loosening up my joints and everything. And this is where it’s weird, man Again with what I feel like. I know I usually drive it well, I actually got to play. One of the two times I played was in the Constellation Furick and Friends Pro Am, again with my electricity company. They sent me an email like four months ago saying hey, would you like to compete with some of the best 50 year old golfers on the planet. I’m like that’s pretty ironic. Yes, I would. So I actually went and played with Alex Chetka in the Pro Am. Oh, cool, and that’s the. That was the first time I played in two and a half months and I drove it great, which is funny to me. I don’t really understand why other than the fact I don’t make it complicated I just set up and just try to hit a hammered cut every single time and you know, I’ve been doing this for 50 years, so I’ve gotten decent at it. And, honestly, the way I feel like, if I can just get out and at least put for 10 hours over the next three weeks, which I should be doing 10 hours a week, my goal is to play. I’m going to get greedy and say five times, but Q school starts four weeks or four weeks from two days ago. So Tuesday in four weeks it’s in California, out at Subobo Springs, I think. It’s an Indian casino down there, of course, looks good from the satellites, but I literally I just chose it because it was the furthest time, wise, first stage away, because I just wanted to. I knew I needed as much time as physically possible. One of the stages starts next week. I’m like that would not be good but my ankles feeling pretty good, pretty strong shoulders. I’ve also got a torn rotator cuff and some other stuff in my left shoulder but it’s feeling pretty good after doing all the rehab I’ve been on. So I’m moderate. I’m definitely overly optimistic. I feel like I can get through first stage. Now the problem is second stage is there’s only four cards and then just the top 20 guys get any sort of conditional status, which all that actually does for you on champions tours gets you through the Thursday pre qualifying. But that’s really ultimately my goals to somehow get through first stage and then somehow play solid enough to top 20 at final stage. Just I feel like I can work some sort of a schedule. But if you have to do the Thursday qualifier, you got to do the Thursday qualifier, the Monday qualifier and then the tournament doesn’t even start till the next Friday. Is a guy who runs two companies with a wife and ex-wife and a 10 and 14 year old girls. That ain’t going to happen at all. 0:58:33 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat does your, what does your training schedule or training look like? I mean, obviously you’re a very fit guy. I know you hammer a ball. I mean as far as, like you know, a lot of the listeners that we have are in the 35 plus crowd, so very curious to see in here what you do. 0:58:49 – Scott FawcettI usually try to get to the gym for at least an hour and a half or almost two hours at least four days a week. I just do old man exercises, just. I’ve definitely enjoyed a number of different golf specific guys, but I just always wind up going back to the same 12 or so exercises. I’ve always enjoyed working out. I’ve been fatter at some point in my life. I mean I’m definitely the most in shape I’ve ever been. I had surgery on both elbows in 2021 to finally clear all that up and then really just the last two years I’ve probably put on 20 plus pounds of muscle and gotten down to about 20% body fat. I can tell you’re pretty lean and fit, so 20% is probably much higher than you are. But I don’t really like the cardio and I definitely like eating like crap. So I need to probably grow up out of that. But yeah, it’s training, definitely just getting as strong as possible. I just don’t feel like that can be a bad idea, especially with all the science now of like if you’ve, if you break a hip over the age of 65, it’s like a 50% mortality rate in the next year and it’s like a 90% You’re at least going to be incapacitated to some degree, whether that’s a walker or something, and it’s like just doing the most you can to keep as much muscle on your body and that’s where, yeah, I’d like to do more golf specific stuff, but I just don’t have time for it. And I’m like half vein too, or I’m like, well, I wouldn’t mind being bigger. Also, it definitely helps me hit the ball further. I actually think the two having size is as weird as it sounds helps with your chipping and putting. I think the tiger strength was as big of an asset in in just stabilization and agility for as chipping as putting as it was for anything else. I mean obviously the guys, the goat, essentially everything. So whatever he does can’t be bad. I mean I think it’s funny when people give him a hard time saying he was on steroids and stuff back in the day. I’m like you mean, a 32 year old athletic guy can’t put on. I mean again, you literally put on over at that age over a pound of muscle a year easily, excuse me, a month at. You know, 12, 15 pounds over the course of years just is nothing. And on his frame that looks like a billion pounds of muscle. I’ve put on like nine in the last 15 months and I look noticeably bigger, like you take and I’m 220,. You take his 170 pound frame and put 15 pounds of muscle and it looks ridiculous. Yeah, I mean again, he might have been, but I don’t think that’s mandatory. If it was, he probably wouldn’t have gotten his injured. 1:01:20 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you say old man exercises, are you talking like squats, deadlifts, like that kind of stuff, Squats deadlifts, lat pull downs. 1:01:27 – Scott FawcettI do like getting on the machine where you can do the arms back as well as turn around and do the flies. I’ve been doing a lot more of the knot. I need to do the exercises where you’re abducting, I guess. 1:01:40 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah the good girl, bad girl machine. Yeah. 1:01:44 – Scott FawcettGood girl, bad girl oh my God, that’s amazing. I’ve never heard that before, somehow. That’s incredible. I like doing the bad girl version of it because I feel like that helps your right glute as much as anything. And then obviously, lat, pull downs, tricep extensions. I’ve definitely been doing more face pulls. I’ve heard that that’s really good for along the back of the shoulders, the lateral raises, front raises, calves, yeah, and then squats. You know it’s funny. I don’t know why. I’ve still never tried it, but the one where you I think it’s like a donkey kick or something, where you get on your like on all your elbows and then you’re down and then you’re just like pushing back with one leg. That seems like a hell of a lot better exercise for the glute and for the golf motion than just a squat where you’re still like seated when you’re extending it into a full plane, I guess you know, from your head to your toes or straight line, and I literally have never once tried it. I look at it every time and I’m like that looks like such a better exercise and I’ve never even gotten on the machine for some reason. 1:02:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’re talking to one where you’re almost like in a harness and you’re leaning in and then pushing the way back. 1:02:48 – Scott FawcettAnd then pushing back. 1:02:50 – Jeff PelizzaroWe don’t have one here, we had one at our last facility and, no, it’s a great machine. Plus it, you’re kind of suspended a little bit, so you’re having to use a lot of core while activating and you get that the leg kind of in front of you and have to drive from there. So it’s yeah it is. It’s a great. It’s a great machine. All right, there we go. I’m going to try it. 1:03:06 – Scott FawcettThe next time I go, I’m going to try I tell you what this is what’s weird man this is. I really have been a train wreck these last couple of years. I was planning on playing all day today and I literally last night I don’t know what I did, but between just beneath my rib cage and between my hip on the left side there’s a pain in there Like I mean it’s dicey. I mean I was asleep 15 minutes before we started because I just went and laid down. I don’t know what I did, but man, it hurts. I’m lucky I originally was like Googling and said kidney stones. I’m like I feel like if I got a kidney stone I would literally just kill myself. That is, I’m terrified of getting a kidney stone, but I guess that’s supposed to be more around towards your spine. So I was like thank God. 1:03:47 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean it could be. You know, it could be like some oblique and ab related stuff, depending on what’s going on. But yeah, if it persists, better get that checked out for sure, for sure. All right, my friend, just a couple of questions to finish off with you. I really appreciate your time today. This has been awesome, all right. So we asked us if everybody comes on the show Caddy Shack or happy Gilmore. 1:04:09 – Scott FawcettI’m changing on that as I get older. I definitely was a Caddy Shack guy all along. Adam Sandler used to drive me crazy, but now my kids like his movies and my wife likes his movies, so I’ve been watching more of them. So I’m probably going to go with happy Gilmore now. 1:04:21 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, If you could pick a walkup song to the first T box. What’s your walkup song? 1:04:26 – Scott FawcettOh, what is it? God dang it. I’ve literally answered this question just the other day and it is, oh my God, there it is the Rolling Stones Paint it Black. I couldn’t come up with that Nice. That opening guitar riff is just amazing. 1:04:46 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a book that you’ve, you know, really dug into over the years, something that’s meant a lot to you? Doesn’t have to be golf, could be anything, but you tend to recommend to people. 1:04:55 – Scott FawcettThe Art of Learning by Josh Waitskin. It is absolutely incredible. That’s actually what Zala Taurus and I. I’ve read it leading into the Texas AM. I bought him a copy. I’m like I want you to read this thing before the tournament starts. And then at the US Junior. I didn’t really realize at the time because there wasn’t as much into the meditation stuff as I was, but we were staying about 45 minutes away from the golf course and Will’s dad is a little bit of a nervous driver, to say the least, and I was like I can’t ride with this guy for 45 minutes because he’s on the brakes and on the gas and on the horn. I’m like I cannot do this in Houston traffic. So I told him I was like, hey, Will and I are just going to ride in my car so that way we can just talk a little bit and get in the right mindset. He’s like absolutely, he’s a good guy, whatever. And we literally were silent for 45 minutes every single day, driving there, just listening to the Art of Learning and just it didn’t. It doesn’t really matter where you pick it up, it’s applicable to everyone’s life, like literally every single chapter. And I don’t think I realized at the time, we were basically just doing almost an hour long just meditation Cause. Again, it was by design. I’m like, dude, we’re going to be together all day. We’ve just really shouldn’t talk for the next 45 minutes. It is exhausting, it is dehydrating, let’s just get our minds right. And he was like, okay, cool, and so that’s literally all the way to the course and, honestly, all the way home too. We would just sit there and listen to it. Just, it was one of those deals that was like our ritual that works, so we kept on doing it. I will say this is the one question I wanted to add to. Also, though, the tour player that I worked with yesterday. He was like that’s the most amazing book ever. He’s like I’ve read it at least 40 times, and, you know, over the course of the last couple years. And he sent me an Audible of a book called Richard Weiser Happier by William Green, and so I literally haven’t even started it yet. But this kid, you know, played golf at an Ivy League school and he’s a. He’s a good player and a good guy, and if I was looking at that, I was like, well, if you recommended that one, I’m going to bet it’s pretty damn good, You’re not going to recommend a book you can’t stand behind. 1:06:53 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome Art of learning has been on my list of books to read for the longest time, so this is definitely going to make me press the end. 1:06:59 – Scott FawcettI would pick that to the top. It’s amazing. 1:07:00 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah for sure. All right, who would be your dream celebrity? For some, if you got to play with anybody in the world, doesn’t matter who it is past, dead or alive anybody you’d love to play with, I mean that would definitely be Tiger, I would probably say Jordan, and then, just to keep it fun, I’ll say Mark Wahlberg. Yes. 1:07:24 – Scott FawcettAwesome, or DJ Khaled. 1:07:28 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s go golfing, all right, excluding Augusta and St Andrews, because that’s what seems to be what everybody picks. It’s kind of like a wheel of fortune. You know, we’ve taken out the certain letters. What’s a bucket list course that if we could fuel up the jet right now. And I said, scott, we’re going, where do you want to go? Where are you? 1:07:45 – Scott Fawcetttaking us? The irony of that question is I’ve played Augusta National once and it was on November 2nd seven years ago. So I played Augusta seven years ago today and it was brutal because it was actually just overseeded, so the fairways were all just long and wispy. The course is soaking wet and we played it from a step off the back at like 7,800 yards. It was actually miserable. I actually need to go play it again closer to tournament conditions. If I had died and never played it, it’d be like well, whatever, nobody gets to play Augusta. But now that I’ve played it like that, I’m like I have to see this thing closer. So I actually will say Augusta, but I will say you know, pine Valley would have to be the one, seminole. I love Florida, so Seminole would be cool, but I would probably go with Pine Valley barely over it. 1:08:31 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. All right, what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 1:08:37 – Scott FawcettThat’s a good question. Can it be advice I gave myself? Yeah, for sure I would say just start meditating To know, to finally learn. You don’t have to get mad. I mean that’s, it’s funny because I get, as you know, hundreds of thank you type emails and I would say I get as many or more you’ve helped me in my life with the content than I get. You’ve helped me purely with my golf game, I mean. And that’s if there’s any one thing, like I said before we started, like I’m not really impressed with this world we’re putting together here with phones and social media and everything. And that’s one of the reasons that, if there’s any one thing I would like to hang my hat on at the end of whatever career this is, is just getting more people into meditation and accepting that thought is just a thought and they cannot live, you know, based on whatever the next thought is in their head. I mean, again, I talk a lot about Sam Harris, but his waking up app. I literally recommend that almost more than I recommend my own app. Now, the convenient thing for me is Sam will actually give it away to you for free If you just Google waking up free. He’s a pretty nicer guy than I am, but just learning that a thought is nothing more than a thought and you do not have to just let it dictate your actions, it’s just. I wish I would have known and understood that younger. 1:09:57 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s amazing. I love it. All right, my friend, this has been so much fun. I’ve learned so much and definitely want to dig in more into the decade app. Tell us a little bit about well, first of all, where people can find it, and I know that there’s a couple different levels, so feel free to tell everybody yeah, you can just go to decadegolf. 1:10:16 – Scott FawcettWe finally tried to take this business series over the last nine months. At first I was just always kind of like, yeah, it’s fun, passive income and whatever. It’s finally got the point where it’s kind of big enough that it’s a real deal and lots of fun. So we’ve finally got decadegolf up and running. Foundations, like I say it’s the two are identical Foundations is definitely designed foundations and elite Foundations is definitely theoretically designed for a junior golfer to force them to go slower. We have free yardage books. So if you’re a person who actually plays golf and uses yardage books at all, I really tried to design the app to where it pays for itself. You get elite. You get 52 free yardage books a year should be 48. And with foundations you get one a month for the six months, because I figured those players aren’t probably playing quite as many tournaments and we do have a cost associated with the yardage book. But you just type in what course you’re playing. We’ve got all 42,000 courses on the planet in the database. If you look at it and yours is not updated, you just have to send us an email and we will get the course updated, usually in about 48 hours or less. Yeah, so decadegolf. Thankfully I punted Twitter, because it’s such a cesspool. Instagram is, I think it’s decade, underscore golf, and that’s there’s the main places. 1:11:33 – Jeff PelizzaroCool. We’ll have it all linked up in the show too. And congrats on on punting Twitter. That’s awesome yeah. 1:11:39 – Scott FawcettThat’s the best move. I mean literally. That was a top five move of my life. 1:11:46 – Jeff PelizzaroI can only imagine so much, so much more headspace now. 1:11:48 – Scott FawcettOh my God, the inbound is just incredible. And what the problem is, they think they’re arguing about opinions. I’m like this is not a mathematical certainty, like you were literally arguing two plus two is five. If you could just take a second. And what I finally realized with Twitter is you have to condense your, your idea, into one post. That’s why I’m considered like. So, just like blunt and kind of an a-hole is just because if you, I might get a hundred thousand views on the first tweet and like 10,000 on the second and like eight on the third. So it’s like if you don’t get it all into one post, you might as well not even try, because no one’s going to read it all, and then see might. It will just be as direct as you can, which apparently is really hard to do for me. 1:12:29 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it comes off a little different in text than it does in person. Exactly Awesome, scott. Thank you so much for your time and really looking forward to to sharing this with the 18STRONG crew Awesome, thank you. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG, and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we’d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Staying hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Dr. Zac Cutler (Sports Performance Chiropracter, FGLC Performance/Golf and Training Institute)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 357Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Imagine having the secret to improving your golf game right at your fingertips. The key could be as simple as understanding your body mechanics better. That’s right, we’ve got Dr Zach Cutler, the lead chiropractor at Golf and Training Institute (formerly FGL Performance), spilling the beans on how body mechanics can be a game-changer for your golfing skills. Dr Zach will talk about his thrilling experience at the 2016 US Amateur and how his golf background is instrumental in assisting his patients. Fancy knowing more? We’ll walk you through the world of sports chiropractic and its impact on a golfer’s performance with the experts from the Family Golf and Learning Center. They cater to different age groups, building strength for kids, considering past medical history for adults, and helping everyone step up their game. We’ll shine a light on common golf-related injuries, specifically low back and SI joint issues, the importance of core stabilization, and breathing techniques to prevent these problems. You’ll also get to hear about the role of T-spine and hips in back pain, and tips to improve swing speed and distance. If you think that’s all, well, we’ve got more. We’ll be sharing our personal experiences, discussing the mental aspect of golf and how it influences other life areas, not to mention, announcing our partnership with First Form, a nutritional company committed to helping customers achieve real results. Hear the stories of overspeed training, postural exercises, and the challenges of finding time to practice and train. Lastly, a professional golfer will share his best round on the course, his favorite golf movie, book, and his dream foursome. So, put your golf caps on and let’s head on to this enlightening journey. Tune in and get ready to swing your way to success! Main Topics (00:03) Improve Golf Game Through Body Mechanics Dr Zach Cutler shares his golf background and how he helps patients improve their game through body care. (10:01) Chiropractic for Golfers at Learning Center Sports chiropractic improves golf game by incorporating physical health and wellness for kids and adults at Family Golf and Learning Center. (23:45) Golf and Fitness Chiropractor and physical therapist discuss combining manual therapy and exercise for golfers, and addressing posture.. (31:28) SI Joint Dysfunction and Golf Core Strength Nature’s injuries in golfers’ low back and SI joint, core stabilization, breathing techniques, T-spine and hip involvement, and overspeed training for swing speed. (39:55) Golf Training and Personal Experiences Over speed training in golf can improve performance by understanding body movements, but finding time to practice can be challenging for busy professionals. (47:58) Memorable Rounds and Golf Dreams A professional golfer shares his best round, mental game, favorite movie and book, dream foursome, and advice. Follow Dr. Zach Cutler Instagram: @drzachcutler Instagram: @golfandtraininginstitute Website: GolfandTraininginstitute.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 357, with Dr Zach Cutler from FGL Performance.What’s up, guys? 0:00:36 – Jeff PelizzaroThis week, we are in studio with Dr Zach Cutler from FGL Performance. Dr Zach is the lead chiropractor. He’s a sports performance chiropractor over at a really cool facility here in St Louis, missouri called Family Golf and Learning Center, or FGLC for short. He’s the head of FGL Performance. Dr Zach also played very high level golf playing Division 1 at Valparaiso. He made it into the 2016 US Amateur, and so he utilizes his background in golf to work with his patients, specifically golfers just like you, to help them move better, help them improve their game through their body. So in this episode, we talk exactly about that how you can improve your game by working on your body, because it’s the only thing that you use on every single shot. So today we talk with Dr Zach about building speed, gaining mobility and really ultimately swinging the club better for a longer period of time. You have to control your body for 18 holes, 36 holes or even longer, and he helps us figure out how we can do that better. So we’re going to do that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, dr Zach Cutler. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. 0:02:24 – Dr. Zach CutlerI appreciate it. Thanks for having me. 0:02:26 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure. So this has been a little bit of a long time coming. We met a few weeks or months ago and you’re doing some really cool things over at Family Golf and Learning Center that we’ll get to talking about. But let’s talk a little bit about your background in just golf athletics. I know you grew up playing a lot of hockey. Did you play more hockey or more golf when you were growing up? 0:02:46 – Dr. Zach CutlerGrowing up it was more hockey. My dad, most of my family, is Canadian. Hockey growing up was a sport and same with my brother, so played hockey for the most part of the childhood and then gradually golf into it and over at Wing Haven Country Club, right over here. 0:03:03 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat level of hockey did you end up playing Like? How late did you play through high school? 0:03:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I played until sophomore year of high school and it was a central states team through St Louis Selects. They’re called a kind of transition into car show AAA now, and so it wasn’t quite at that AAA level but just in between that double AAA level. So I met a lot of good people through that program, but also a lot of those players were golfers as well so it was a good mesh. 0:03:33 – Jeff PelizzaroGotcha. So your golf career then started just playing with your brothers, your dad, and just kind of grew from there. 0:03:41 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so golf grew up. My grandparents lived in Branson and so they were members of the course down there. So my brother and I we would go out on their golf car playing holes after in the evening and learning golf that way and my grandpa was a huge part of giving me into golf and really just kind of grew from there. You know, every time we’re down there playing, and then gradually transition to junior golf programs and then to some local events. And you know, just led to one thing another. 0:04:14 – Jeff PelizzaroSo then played in high school and then ended up going to Valparaiso and playing Division 1? 0:04:18 – Dr. Zach CutlerYes, so with high school Timberland High School, over in Winsville, and from there in 2013 we won the state championship. So that was a great experience with the guys. And then from there I committed to Valpo, played four years of small D1 school in Northwest Indiana up there, and that was a great experience. You know, I had a small win my freshman year you know some good golfers Division 1 program up there. And then, yeah, 2016 was able to come back down here at Old Hickory golf course and qualified for the US Amateur that summer and kind of a crazy ride to get there through that qualifier, but it was fun. And then later, I think it was July or August, and it was the US Am and just a good experience for sure. 0:05:17 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that was Oakland Hills. 0:05:19 – Dr. Zach CutlerOakland Hills Country Club up in Michigan. So two courses and I think just outside of Detroit, maybe up there, and it was a great layout, great course. 0:05:33 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what was it like going into that setting? Obviously a very big deal to make it to that setting, that level. Were you nervous? Were you excited? All of the above then how did you end up playing that week? 0:05:46 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I’ll kind of start at the qualifier. So first round wasn’t too good. It was a 77 and the last round ended up shooting 666 and got into a playoff and three guys and that actually took eight holes. So it was a long second day and I got that second spot and from there I didn’t really know what I got myself into. In regards to the US Am like I always try to qualify for that. Everyone in the area try to qualify for that if you’re an Am and then you don’t really know until you’re there. When you’re there, it’s really neat how structured and how everything is set up at this US Am. It’s so professionally set up and I was nervous when we were there you had the head of the USGA that was there at the time and going through and seeing all these really well known amateurs playing in this event and a couple well known ones I mean Skychefler, colin Morkawa, were in that and some high end names right now in the PGA Tour, which is really cool and it shows that it made it to that level, made it to that tournament, and so the nerves on the first tee were high, for sure, but gradually sunk into it a little bit, didn’t play too well, but great experience and it just shows you where your golf game needs to be to play at that level. And that experience has really helped me where I’m at now with my profession and helping golfers now. 0:07:19 – Jeff PelizzaroSo metal play is how many days is it? Three days in the US Am, and then you make it to match play. 0:07:27 – Dr. Zach CutlerTwo short play days. And then top 64 and I think it was plus one or plus two for the 36 holes. There were two courses, north and south. One was the championship course, the other one was a shorter, tighter course. Out there and I think there was like 17 guys for maybe six spots to get the last few spots for the match play. So it was, I mean, a lot of players. I mean there’s 312 players or so that make it and then only 64 go to match play so you know. But you know, even though not making the match play, it was a great experience for the guys that I played with, but also, you know, guys that were on the putting green, the locker room, all that, so met a lot of people through it as well. 0:08:11 – Jeff PelizzaroWho ended up winning that year? 0:08:12 – Dr. Zach CutlerIt was Curtis Luck, so Brad Dahlke came and runner up and then I’m not really sure how Moira Kawa and some other guys did that year, but you know it was some good playing for sure. 0:08:27 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you mentioned that. You know that experience and just playing collegiate level golf has really kind of helped shape your career. What made you decide to go into the chiropractic school you went here at Logan. 0:08:39 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, right. 0:08:41 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd did you always know that you wanted to kind of get in the medical world, or is that something that just kind of gradually, you know you worked out through the years in college? 0:08:50 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo I’ll kind of start off. In high school I was definitely driven in regards to the golf aspect well, golf and hockey, but gradually just into golf and so I was very focused. I really wanted to take that as far as possible. As I was in college playing both golf and the academic side, I realized I really enjoyed the body biomechanics. I want to help people and I felt like and I wanted to work with athletes as well and I felt like, originally, physical therapy was the way to go. Nowadays we’re becoming very similar PTs and chiropractors and but the entry into schooling is a little different. So I was actually originally taking classes to go into PT school and try to get into those and transition where I met a few guys that actually were in here down in St Louis that then go into Logan and I’m like you know what, it’s close to home. I shadowed some physical therapists, some chiropractors. I love both professions and just thought you know this is the route you know to go, being close to home here at Logan, and I’m glad I went that route for sure. 0:10:00 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. I was expecting you to kind of say that maybe you had an injury that you know like that’s a traditional physical therapist story. 0:10:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerI had an injury. 0:10:08 – Jeff PelizzaroI went to rehab. I saw what they did there. I thought it was kind of cool and I want to work with athletes. But you know, to have that athletic background and wanting to go into that, seems to make. 0:10:19 – Dr. Zach CutlerI mean perfect sense, yeah, really not a whole lot of injuries growing up. And that’s the thing where you know the patients golfers I help with right now and not just golfers, some other athletes as well the routes and my experience that I’ve been through to kind of get away from those injuries, and along with just nutrition as well, along with the training, along with the treatment and management, injury management and it’s been really helpful for myself and I’m trying to help people as well with that. 0:10:50 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you work at one of the coolest places here in St Louis Family Golf and Learning Center. So first, just for people that are listening, we had Adam Betts on the show a long time ago, really right when Family Golf and Learning Center was getting ready to be opened up. But tell us about you know what’s going on over there, what the place is, because I think that you know when you hear that name you don’t really know what it is, but it really is like a premier spot for golf in St Louis. 0:11:20 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo family golf and learning center. It’s a great spot. Like you said, it has a par three course, it has two hitting bays, grass hitting bays on the side. It has a double tier range, along with a massive putting and chipping area. Not only that, where I’m inside it has a couple track bands where you can really look at your numbers, look at in and out speed, spin all that and then upstairs you have the fitness center where my office is located, helping with the physical aspect of the golfers game. So at this facility for really the average golfer, trying to get the full spectrum of the teaching pros, the chiropractic, pt, rehab side and trying to engulf the amateur golfer with every aspect that these pro and tour players have, and it’s just a perfect facility for that. 0:12:13 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you ever go there before it was taken over and redone and everything? 0:12:18 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo I’ve seen pictures. I’ve never been there, so Adam’s done a great thing to this place, so it’s a good spot right now. 0:12:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, if you were to see it. I mean, think of kind of your traditional old school driving range two tiers but small little shack and basically just a flat surface driving range. It does have a nine hole par three course out there. But then Adam the new owner came in and has just done so much tore down the old building, built a new with 10,000 square foot facility. It’s just, it’s top notch. And every time I go there so my son goes there now my son’s 15 years old, him and his cousins and buddies hey, can we go out on a Friday night and go up to family golf? When it’s 45 degrees out you can go inside and to the hitting bays or the heated bays. But it’s cool like there’s so many kids out there practicing and I think that there’s so few places and I think this probably goes for the states in general there’s unless you belong to a club, it’s hard to like go get real practicing and then to have a facility where you can go practice your short game and then you can go inside to hitting bays and then to take it another level and have somebody like you there where you know you can come and get assessed, you can come and get a training program, you can have doctors at work on you. It’s just it’s pretty cool to see that. You know it’s like the pros have their team, their medical staff, their, and you guys are kind of doing that over there. 0:13:50 – Dr. Zach CutlerTrying to hit every angle for you know the average golfer that’s in the area for sure. So you know it’s really neat too with the PGA teaching instructors there and, like you said, the kids, and it’s every age and skill of a golfer that’s there practicing and they’re able to get the instruction side but also able to get their body, their movements assessed and you know, like I said, attack all angles. 0:14:16 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I’d like to maybe break out into kind of two different groups, because you know we’re talking about some of the kids and then I think that a big demographic of our audience is, you know, guys like me I won’t throw you in the old man bus, you know, 27 years old, but you know us guys that are in our 40, 35, 40, 45 and beyond. We have our own issues that I think we’ll probably talk even a little more extensively on. But curious, when you’re working with the kids, you know, because typically you think of chiropractors, you think you know a guy that has back pain goes to a chiropractor, right? Well, you’re a chiropractor sports chiropractor that works with golfers, works with a lot of kids. What does that look like when you bring a kid in and what are some of the reasons why? You know somebody that’s listening, maybe would want their you know, 14 year old to come see somebody like you, even if maybe they don’t have pain or discomfort or things like that. 0:15:10 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so you know well, 13, 14, 15 year olds just entering high school. A lot of the golfers I work with they want to. You know they want to hit the ball further nowadays. Definitely that’s part of the game now hitting the ball further as they’re entering high school. The big aspect is just getting stronger. They’re gonna naturally get a little stronger as they get older, but strength is key and for those golfers we work on basic body motions and movements and you know we’re not doing a whole lot of weight here but we’re gradually stepping it up, progressing forward with strength, and so those game plans are a little bit different than someone that’s 35, 40 years plus that has some other past medical history going on. So, like you said, these golfers that are younger usually don’t have a whole lot of past medical history there and there trying to hit the ball further, get a little stronger and improve speed, power, strength, time, speed. So working on strength, working on speed, you’re gonna improve power and that’s the primary focus for those golfers and we’re already seeing, you know, huge improvement for the golfers I work with right now. So kind of veering into the 35, 40 year old plus golfers that I work with all skill levels. That’s where past medical history takes a little bit of a bigger play into the picture. So with the start of every session we go through past medical history and figure out, you know, any limitations before we go through the assessment. And that’s huge for the treatment side but that’s also huge for developing the program and personalized program. And then I can lead into a little bit the assessment. So with the assessment I look at mobility, I look at stability, I look at power and then I also take a look at their swing as well. So those four components we combine with these golfers goals to create a personalized program. So most of the goals are hitting the ball further and pain-free golf. Those are the biggest ones. But some people want to improve this mobility and we kind of veer that program towards what they want. So in regards to golfers, with the assessment we figure out mobility limitations, where what is moving well with the body, what’s not moving well, and that will also be able to tell us what are the stable parts of the body as well. Power assessment we’ll do a warm-up, we’ll look at upper body power, core power and lower body power. A lot of times you can kind of with doing this with a lot of people. You can tell right off the bat in regards if we need to improve different areas of power. The last component is the swing aspect. So we’ll look at some swing speed, but we’ll also look at how the movement of their swing looks. So I can compare it to the assessment and like okay, so for instance, they don’t have external rotation of their right shoulder for right hand to golfer. If we look at their swing, they’re bringing the club back here. They have no external rotation. They’re gonna be very laid off low, maybe come from the inside out and little aspects like that really correlate and it all makes sense and describing this to the golfer afterwards and they understand where I’m coming from, what we’re seeing in the assessment and what the clear picture of the game plan is moving forward. 0:18:29 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome when you bring them in and you’re looking at those things and, speaking from my own personal experience, it’s really cool when you can kind of show them like, hey, here’s what we see on your physical screen and maybe even before you do any kind of a swing assessment or anything like, here’s what we’re seeing Now, let’s just see how that plays out a little bit later, if it does at all, and then, like you just start to see like these light bulbs turn on in their head. Are there any kind of like low hanging fruit or low hanging fruit or like really common things that you tend to see in that demographic? Are there certain parts of the body that you kind of have seen Like, yeah, there’s a lot of patterns here. 0:19:08 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so. If someone comes in, for instance, with SI joint dysfunction or SI joint pain, a lot of times, most of the time, early extension is a big aspect of the SI joints so they’re not able to fully turn their pelvis. A lot of times they try to stand up or really extend their golf swing. So early extension is huge. So pelvic rotation is part of the assessment that I see probably failed the most and I don’t like the word fail. It’s a limitation that we can improve. It’s not going to be a fail all the time. We’re there to improve it and have the body move the most efficient as possible for the golfer. So I would say hip mobility. I primarily look at internal rotation. Just with, for instance, a right hand golfer, the backswing right hip internal follow through, you’re posting up on that left side. So internal rotation is huge. I find limitation with a lot of people with internal rotation. That could be so with the assessment, two different types. So, for instance, if we’re looking at lower quarter rotation, which is internal rotation of the hips, if someone’s not able to perform that motion, I actually check passively as well to make sure if there’s a true limitation in that motion. 0:20:23 – Jeff PelizzaroSo for instance Can you explain that a little bit, what that means? Passively versus. 0:20:28 – Dr. Zach CutlerVersus active. So active is with the lower quarter rotation, the patient. I’m not doing anything. The patient will actively try to rotate their hip into internal rotation and there’s a specific movement for that with the assessment. So they’re actively moving their muscles, contracting their muscles to get in that motion. So I assess where they’re able to go with that degree wise and then on the table, my chiropractic table, I check passively so that the patient’s not moving their leg at all. I’m passively moving their leg into that internal rotation and I compare if it’s the same or if it’s different. So for instance, if the golfer actively say, goes you know 40 degrees of internal rotation and I’m able to passly go into 60 degrees, then we know they don’t necessarily have a limitation. They have a mind-body connection limitation where I love those, where you know, do specific movements, golfers really able to get into those motion right off the bat, great. And then, for instance, stops, a case where if it’s 40 degrees of internal rotation, passively only able to get to 40, they have a true limitation and most of the time it’s muscular related, but sometimes it could be osteology and the bone where you know it’s gonna be a little bit tougher to get that internal rotation. Just wanna go into that a little bit. 0:21:47 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, yeah, I think that’s really important to distinguish is the fact that you can actually have the range of motion in your body, but you’re not executing it in your activity that you’re doing right. So, in your golf swing. So like you physically can do it. So if Dr Zach has you laying on the table and he’s able to rotate your leg to 60 degrees, but in your swing you’re only rotating your pelvis or your hip to that short or 40 degrees you’re like hey you have it, we just don’t know how to turn it on yet. So then let’s distinguish between what you would do in a situation like that. So in one situation you’ve got somebody. They’re just stuck Like right. They don’t have that full range of motion, they’re at 40 degrees, they’re stuck, but we want to get them to 50, 60, whatever it might be. What does it look like for that patient or client versus somebody that you’re like? No, you got it. We just need to kind of figure out how to make you use it, definitely so, the two different avenues. 0:22:47 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo in regards to the treatment side for a golfer that is truly limited in that internal rotation, this can be any range of motion shoulder mobility, it could be other aspects or parts of the body as well, but just, for instance, with the hip, I would do more soft tissue therapy. I would really work on the muscles and the tissue in that region to help them improve and loosen up that region. And with that, though, I would add in specific movements to help engage and move into that internal rotation, to add into it For golfers that just have a mind-body connection limitation, where they can get in that motion but they’re not used to really getting in that full range of motion. That’s where really just specific exercises and movements can help them get there. So that’s where I say it’s a little bit better when people have that range of motion but aren’t fully utilizing it. We can get them in there pretty quickly. 0:23:44 – Jeff PelizzaroRight, and that’s where. So there’s always this talk about golf and fitness and where do the exercises come in and how much should be golf-ish and how much should not be. But I think this is the exact specific point where being able to identify, like, the reason we’re doing this exercise, the reason we’re going into this motion, is not just because we want to make it look like a golf swing, it’s because we’re trying to get your body to be able to feel this position or move in this position Exactly, but knowing that you have that motion like, okay, we can do this. It’s not just let’s grab a cable and let’s start rotating, because I’m a golf fitness guy and that’s what we do. We just rotate, right. 0:24:25 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah. 0:24:27 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I would think that the other individual that has the limited hip or they have the actual physical limitation. This, to me, would be where, like your expertise, really makes such a big difference for some of these people. 0:24:43 – Dr. Zach CutlerYes, definitely so. Just knowing the anatomy in that region as well, and a few other soft tissue techniques play well in these cases for sure, and this is again, it’s in combination of the exercise portion as well. So that’s where I like to utilize both chiropractic care, soft tissue therapy past modality and these techniques. There’s a few techniques I can name, but all of them are trying to. They have the same goal in mind. So, yeah, so. 0:25:15 – Jeff PelizzaroHow do we so? First of all, you know when people think chiropractor or at least that’s changing now as far as, like they used to think chiropractor oh, crack your neck, snap your back and move on. Come back next week right. So do you do much of the how would you describe it to the layperson? Subluxation, or. 0:25:38 – Dr. Zach CutlerManual adjustment, manual therapy or manual manipulation, so adjustment would be easy term. So for instance, for a golfer, if we’re doing an assessment T-spine rotation so thoracic spine rotation we’re looking for at least past 45 degrees bilaterally. If someone’s coming in and they have no past medical history of the thoracic spine, everything’s green light, no red flags, and they’re limited in T-spine rotation. Well, that’s where I’ll combine my chiropractic care knowledge, chiropractic knowledge along with exercise to help improve that. So we would adjust T-spine, we would go in and do a short little assessment of chiropractic wise, but our goal is to help gain a little bit more motion in those joints. So the spines made up of many different joints that could connect bone to bone, basically with the disc in there, and if we can create more motion in those joints along with these exercises, it’s going to have the optimal outcome and benefit for the golfer. 0:26:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that’s the key right. It is creating motion but then backing up, backing up and fortifying it with your ability to strengthen, and I think that that’s where you know there’s. It’s great we have a chiro and a PT in the same room together and we do get along right and people think that natural enemies. But I think that that’s kind of initially where some of the differences occurred, where, like, the PT’s were always kind of the exercise rehab. You guys were always a lot more of the manual therapy and the adjustments. And now what I’m seeing is there a lot more crossover, not so much as far as the adjustments from the physical therapy side and again, I’ve been out of the clinical world for a while but it’s cool to go to these continuing education courses and meet so many different chiro’s and PT’s that have such similar ways of thinking and going through the same you know, education to really learn how the body’s working and you know just seeing what you’re doing with the combination of the manual therapy and being able to first of all relieve ailments but then, you know, really kind of utilize those skills and then back it up and work on strengthening and training and doing those things. So I assume a lot of your clients patients will you know, go home with some sort of homework or exercises or posture drills, or you know what are some of the biggest things that you’re constantly working on, and maybe for the kids and for the adults. 0:28:02 – Dr. Zach CutlerWell, number one for sure. Nowadays, everyone looking down at their phone anterior head carriage, rolled shoulders forward or anterior, and so a lot of postural exercises. So it’ll be chin retractions, it’ll be working on the rhomboids or the posterior muscles to help with those with the posture. So and I see that across the board for sure, and a lot of kids in school now too, sitting down hunched over I need to do a better job, I think everyone everyone does. And that’s where simple movements like this that I give golfers, patients and just getting on them daily will really help in the long run. 0:28:43 – Jeff PelizzaroSo the consistency is so important. Definitely. I want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices, but we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually living them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partnered with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game. The protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG, and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. You can go to FirstFormcom that’s P-H-O-R-M dot com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. Let’s talk a little back pain, because obviously chiropractic and back pain kind of go hand in hand. What do you see, especially with the golfers, as some of the biggest reasons why golfers tend to have back pain? 0:31:01 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so two components. So in regards to putting the T in the ground, in regards to looking at putts, the lumbar spines and the flexion are, I guess, tucked underneath where you’re putting a little bit more pressure on the disc. That’s where you know you could have some disc bowls, potentially disherniation later on, and I see that with a good amount of golfers. Also, though, the second aspect would be the rotational aspect. So usually the trail SI in the low back, that bone back there for right hand to golfer, where you’re pinching it off through your swing, we see a lot of SI joint dysfunction. So there’s different parts though. So especially for SI joint, there’s hypo mobile and hyper mobile. So you got to kind of figure out which one’s what and then it would lead down different path for treatment. So you see, you know, looking at different parts of the spine, I would say a lot of times it’s more low back as opposed to just mid back and cervical spine discomfort with golfers. A lot of times it has to do with core. Stabilization is huge. I know a lot of people think when I say that they’re like, oh, the core is up here, not back there. If you’re able to really strengthen this region and I’m not talking about crunches all the time, isometric work where you’re in the neutral position, but still strengthening that core. That’s really going to help the whole torso and help that low back. So isometric dead bugs, bird, dogs and people ask as well. They’re very simple at first, but there’s many ways to improve and make it a lot tougher. And then breathing is a big aspect of it as well. So you want to breathe through the stomach as opposed to just breathing right through the chest. You want to make sure you’re expanding throughout the whole region here, not sucking in like a six pack. You want to actually expand out and really brace that region. So just veering off that, I would say isometric core exercises are huge for golfers with low back pain. 0:33:04 – Jeff PelizzaroGoing to the breathing a little bit, because that’s become something that I’ve really gotten fascinated with as far as how that can impact your bracing. It can actually impact almost like decompressing the spine a little bit, if done right. What are ways that you have people incorporate the breathing into maybe your training programs and what are some of the other benefits? Or how does it actually work to help brace the back as well as kind of decompress? 0:33:32 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so it’s called intraabdominal pressure. And when, for instance, someone’s in a dead bug position where they’re on their back legs up and they’re just bringing one leg out, one arm out, we really want to focus on the belly, breathing outward, so almost pretend this is a cylinder instead of trying to suck in like a six pack. You actually want to feel like you’re expanding out and bracing the whole region. So a lot of times when you’re during impact of the golf swing, the pelvis slowly tilts underneath itself and the posterior tilt. Having that brace in there is super important to help support that spine during impact and throughout the golf swing. 0:34:10 – Jeff PelizzaroSo are you trying to hold that pressure in there as you’re swinging through? 0:34:16 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so usually the motions in regards to we do some kettlebell work, we do some med ball work, obviously the dead bugs and the isometric core incorporating that intraabdominal pressure is huge and we see huge relief and really not just from low back, si joint dysfunction, you know, and overall this could be for the golfer but this is for really any athlete in any sport. Rotational sports huge. 0:34:48 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what about? Something that I found is the fact that you know we a lot of people will present with back pain and maybe they even have something on an MRI where you know you see some sort of disc herniation or something. But when you really dig a little deeper, it’s not necessarily the, it’s the result but, it’s maybe not the root cause and it might be coming from other parts of the body that, for one reason or another, where are some of the bigger pieces that you found? Like Greg Rose from TPI always says, like your low back is like the big brother, like other things are working, so the big brother takes on the load, and so you’re ending up loading your back in funky ways in your golf swing and your workouts because you know other things aren’t doing their job. 0:35:33 – Dr. Zach CutlerExactly so. The low back definitely takes the brunt of the force in regards to so if someone, a golfer, is not able to fully rotate in their T-spine, if someone has limited hip mobility, a lot of times the area it’s that low back that’s trying to take that and counteract that force and take the brunt of that force. If we improve areas above and below, that usually helps improve that motion and improve that discomfort in that low back. And that’s not only just low back, that’s lower extremity as well, upper extremity, so, for instance, the legs. If you have some knee pain, okay, let’s take a look at the foot, let’s take a look at the hip, not just that source. 0:36:09 – Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, yeah, kind of looking at the whole picture not just one or the other. 0:36:14 – Dr. Zach CutlerAnd that kind of leads into why I look at the swing as well. After the assessment. I want to get a picture of how they’re actively swinging the golf club, as opposed to just doing a simple move. 0:36:28 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I think you mentioned earlier like one of the biggest things that most of us want is more distance right, and distance comes from some more speed. What are ways that you are helping some of the golfers get more speed in their golf swing? Obviously there’s tools like the Super Speed Club, the stack system and just the overspeed training devices, which can be very, very beneficial. But from more the body perspective, your expertise perspective, what are some of the things that people can do and again that population of guys like me 45, 50, where you kind of expect like, hey, my swing speed is going to go down, but you need to get off the tee box. You’re like man. 0:37:09 – Dr. Zach CutlerI used to be able to swing faster. Hit it further. So exactly so when you’re getting a 50-year-old, 50-years-old and plus more past medical history tends to come about. So when we’re trying to improve different areas, you have to take in consideration Instead of you might not be able to do the standard motion that will help improve this aspect, you might have to compensate and veer around it to help and not lead towards that past medical history. So, for instance, with speed, a lot of band work and, like I said, I focus on the upper body, core and lower body for speed. So a lot of band work for upper body, if you want to do pushes and pulls or presses and pulls work in both sides. And then with core, I like to do a lot of banded isolation or oscillation movements where you’re really engaging that core and trying to keep the body stable while moving as fast as possible. It’s a very minimal motion that is actually well done by a lot of golfers I work with, even with past medical history, since we’re not really working the joint, it’s more of just strictly core speed. There’s many others you incorporate into your program, but I would say the biggest thing for myself and working with a lot of members that are 50-years-old and plus, it’s that past medical history aspect. So it’s very easy coming someone in where they don’t have any hit history with shoulder injury, hip injury, back and we can go right into the motions. I want, as opposed to if we have knee replacements, hip replacements, maybe some back, maybe there’s hardware in the spine fusion, so you’re going to have to veer around that to still try to accomplish that same goal. 0:38:55 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you can sway any of those people from any of the overspeed training devices or just kind of teach them how to maybe minimize what their issue or injury might impact? 0:39:09 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah. So in regards to, for instance, a gentleman with some hardware, lower lumbar spine, where we want to have a little bit more rotation in the spine, the hardware leads into more of the T-spine where rotation is going to be a factor. So we’re trying to improve we’re not going to improve T-spine rotation because there’s hardware right in there and we’re not trying to affect anything with that. So we’re going to look at different areas where we’ll work out maybe a little bit more shoulder mobility, a little bit more lat flexibility to get more depth in the backswing, maybe a little bit more internal rotation to that right hip for the right hand golfer. So we’re looking at we can actually compensate a little bit on different areas to improve the same motion or the same goal. And what was the question again? 0:39:58 – Jeff PelizzaroOh, just regarding like over speed training and helping people kind of figure out whether that it’s right for them. It’s not right for them. I don’t know how you feel about it. We approach it. Everybody approaches it a little differently. 0:40:10 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, I think it depends on the type of golfer as well and their goals as well. I mean there’s some people that going through the assessment, everyone moves just a little different length than everyone else and so and it depends on two like past sports they play as well. It might be easier route to get into more of the speed training as opposed to someone that hasn’t really been involved with any sort of power or speed work before. So it might be an easier transition for some people. It might be a little slower from other people and we kind of see how the body really incorporates around that. 0:40:46 – Jeff PelizzaroSo that’s a good point. I mean, we’ve I’m sure you’ve had different people that you know. Some are like super coordinated athletic, some or not, and you can’t do the same things with those people you also made the note about. You know, like, if something is, we know that something stuck, like the T-spine that has hardware and sometimes compensation can be a good thing, right, yes, but knowing where that should come from? 0:41:11 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely exactly. So, of course, if we’re limited in T-spine, we want to work on movements for that T-spine because predominantly that motion is rotation in the thoracic spine and, like you said, if there’s any hardware in there that leads into these regions and we can’t improve that range of motion, there can be good compensation on. Okay, let’s, let’s take a look at the shoulder, let’s take a look at the, the lat, and see if we can get a little more depth in that backswing, not just from the T-spine, let’s try to get it up with the shoulders. And that’s where it depends on the person. If they had past shoulder history, medical history, then we’ll have to take it step by step and see what we can do. So, yeah, All right. 0:41:51 – Jeff PelizzaroSo how’s your game these days? And you’ve been playing a little more competitive stuff and kind of getting back in the in the game. 0:41:58 – Dr. Zach CutlerAnd so you know I’m playing college and then went to Logan University for almost four years, three and a half years, and so played here and there a little bit more not as hectic, you know, not not qualifying all this stuff. So more for fun golf and getting back into it now. Currently, metropolitan Golf Association and Missouri Golf Association hold a lot of great events in the area, in the metro area, along with the whole state of Missouri. Thank you, yeah, getting back into it, sitting at a 0.3 right now. So, you know, trying to get back a little bit better. But you know I’m pleased, you know, and that’s for two the golf side of it as well, then the golf experience and incorporating that with my chiropractic knowledge, working with these golfers has been huge and people really, really enjoy that. 0:42:52 – Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, I mean just being able to. Well, first of all, I’m sure that your clients are excited to kind of watch what you’re doing. You know when you go out and play like they’re excited to see how you did, but you know being able to talk the language, being able to understand what they’re talking about. When they go out and they come back and tell you how great they shot or how terrible they shot, what would you say are some of the biggest things that have impacted your golf game from your personal career, knowing what you do. Now you know maybe what would you have liked to instilled in younger Zach that you now know and you’re like, hey, this is a big deal and this is either helping or that was hurting. 0:43:29 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so. When I was in high school, leading into college, I definitely wish I went through this TPI process and really got to know how my body moves and what exactly you know what a personalized program for myself would look like. I wasn’t as knowledgeable back then, with that Understandable high school going into college not really sure what I’m doing. But now, knowing all this and continuing to learn, I’m incorporating into my workout programs and I’m incorporating into my golf game and you know I see results. So the biggest thing right now in college, my driving wasn’t the most, it wasn’t the best aspect of my game, it was more a short game. Now I’m actually incorporating a little bit more power moves into my workouts and hitting the ball actually further now than I did ever I did in college so, and it just makes it more exciting and more fun as well. 0:44:28 – Jeff Pelizzaroso what did your training program in college look like? Did you guys have a dedicated coach for the team? 0:44:34 – Dr. Zach CutlerWe had a strength and conditioning coach, not specifically for golf, it was a combination of a few other teams in college, so we did a lot of core work, we did a lot of legs, but it wasn’t totally designed for golf and that’s where I wish, you know, the knowledge I know now I could really help out. Thankfully, since then they’ve kind of re-amped the system in their strength and conditioning program that it’s veered more around TPI and exactly on what each golfer needs, and the team has really improved even since I’ve been there. So it’s really cool to see this stuff works. I incorporated my workouts and my routine and it shows results for sure. 0:45:21 – Jeff PelizzaroPractice wise. Since you have this facility at your disposal pretty much, you know what does it look like. Are you able to get out and actually put some practice and time then out there. Or I mean, I know you’re running crazy with sessions and clients and stuff like that too. 0:45:34 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo a lot of people think I have all the time to practice and this and that which. It’s a great facility, but definitely busy up in the office. And during lunch I try to go down the track man’s hit some golf balls and get some numbers that way. But most of the practicing is usually done on, usually in the evenings after I’m done with work and on the weekends. But I’ll try to get out when I can, so that’s for sure. 0:46:02 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s funny. We were talking about this big Nashville trip that we have coming up and I’ve got a buddy that’s coming in from LA to go on the trip and we haven’t seen each other in a long time. I think we’ve only played golf with each other maybe once a decade ago and we’re trying to figure out. I’m like what’s your handicap? And he doesn’t have one. And I’m like all right, we gotta get you sorted out. And he’s like what’s yours? And I’m like I’m a 12. He’s like, really. I’m like I’m perfect proof that working in the world of golf doesn’t mean that you play a lot of golf. And I think that probably pull any of the instructors over at FGLC and they’ll probably all say the same thing Like we’re working here all day, the last thing we’re doing is spending a ton of time. So for all of you out there that have friends that are golf instructors or golf fitness pros like realize that many times it’s working with the golfers most of the time and rarely is it us getting out, and so hopefully we’re trying to practice what we preach, but it doesn’t always happen that way 100%, 100%. 0:46:59 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo and I wanna go back to like in regards to thankful with my golf game and getting into that where it’s been now and along the help with my family, my friends, but also Nathan Carnes, pga secretary now. He’s been a huge help with junior golf and my tournaments growing up. So he’s over here at Wing Haven Country Club and a great person and a good golfer himself, so he’s been a huge influence growing up for sure. 0:47:30 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat do you have on your golf radar? Any trips, anything like that coming up soon? 0:47:34 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I have a trip with a couple golfers I work with, along with some family friends, and we’re gonna go to TPCD Run in two weekends and play there for a couple rounds and love that course, for the John Deere Classic is at not only a few hours away from here. So that’s the last really trip for this year and hopefully we can get out a little bit more next year. 0:47:59 – Jeff PelizzaroCool. Do you have an epic round that you remember as like your best day on the course? You’re kind of like blackout mode and went crazy. 0:48:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so, actually that second round of the USAM qualifier. 0:48:11 – Jeff Pelizzaroso Good place to have it. 0:48:14 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, and I’ve shot 66 a couple times, but this one was definitely the best. So nine birdies, six under 66, but it kind of hurts me a little bit. Remember I double bogeyed that last hole so it was close. But you know, and that’s where the experience of that eight hole playoff I you know, looking back at it now I mean that was huge. So just the mental aspect of it and just keeping in that grind so helps me not only for golf but also for, you know, my job and work and life and everything. 0:48:47 – Jeff PelizzaroSo mm-hmm Cool. All right, brother, we’re gonna finish up with our traditional questions here at 18STRONG. So first one Caddy Shaker, happy Gilmore. 0:48:55 – Dr. Zach CutlerHappy Gilmore. Yes. 0:48:57 – Jeff PelizzaroHockey background young guy, that’s kind of the 100% the pattern that I typically see One of the movies you grew up watching, or A little bit, you know, not too often I actually. 0:49:09 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo yes, golf, but I’m a big miracle fan. So the hockey team there, usa, so that’s definitely a big part of it. But happy Gilmore, definitely the hockey side of it I enjoy. 0:49:22 – Jeff PelizzaroSo All right, so you can pick your walkup song. What’s your walkup song to the first tee box? 0:49:28 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo growing up it was hockey locker room kind of pump up music and some rap, some EDM. So now it’s actually by, I think, drake, and a little baby wants and needs it’s called, so you should play it sometime. It’s a good one so. 0:49:45 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ll have to ask my 15 year old son, yep yep, to play that with him. Side question I didn’t prep you with this one Hockey. Being a hockey player, what’s your favorite hockey movie of all time? 0:49:54 – Dr. Zach CutlerHockey movie. Oh a miracle. Yeah, that’s for sure. Sorry, you said that, Yep. 0:49:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAny, have you ever seen the movie Youngblood? 0:50:02 – Dr. Zach CutlerI haven’t. I’ve heard of it. Okay, all right, I have homework for you, okay, okay. 0:50:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSounds good. Sorry, I had. Youngblood on the mind and I knew you just said miracle, but I basically wanted to get to Youngblood. 0:50:13 – Dr. Zach CutlerYep, yep. 0:50:14 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Is there a book that has meant a lot to you, something that you’ve read and that you’ve learned a lot of lessons from, or that you tend to really recommend to people? Golf wise, life wise. 0:50:25 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so this would definitely be more life wise, not just golf wise, and I think you can take different aspects of it of how you want, but a pretty well-known book Rich Dad, poor Dad and there’s so many different aspects of that book that you can take away into your own life and anyone’s life and it really opens up your eyes and your mind about things and I think that can really help you move forward and keep progressing onward. 0:50:53 – Jeff PelizzaroCool, still trying to get my son to read that one. 0:50:57 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo it’s huge now, audiobooks I read the book, the hard cover of it, but audiobooks now driving around pop it on in the car and that’s been huge for me as well. 0:51:09 – Jeff Pelizzaroso road trips huge Ride along university all right. All right. If you could pick a dream for some anybody in the world past present, who would that be? 0:51:19 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, I would probably do. I would probably have Rory Macaroy, tiger and my dad. 0:51:28 – Jeff Pelizzaroprobably would be the four of us, yeah, so All right, so say, we have the 18STRONG Jet, we’ve got it fueled up, ready to go. Your bucket list course that you’re like, I’m going there today. 0:51:41 – Dr. Zach CutlerMm-hmm. So it’s actually believe it or not like a tough one between, and pretty common, st Andrews or Augusta, so that’s probably pretty common. 0:51:52 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, there’s many courses that I would like to play, but those are the two main ones for sure I’m giggling, because we recently had a guest in here and I said all right, you can pick your bucket list, but it can’t be St Andrews, can’t be Augusta. 0:52:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerBecause I know everybody wants that one. 0:52:08 – Jeff PelizzaroSo if you, had to pick a third one. What’d you think? 0:52:11 – Dr. Zach CutlerOh, let’s probably. It would be neat to play, probably Pebble Beach. Yeah yeah, pebble Beach yeah, I would say that so. Or maybe Shadow Creek. So Most expensive golf course on the planet, I would say so. 0:52:33 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, is there a social media account that you’ve really been digging lately? Doesn’t have to be golf, can be anything but that. You would say like hey, you guys should go follow this account for whatever reason. Funny, you get good info whatever you like for. 0:52:46 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I’m kind of getting more into the social media side in regards to following accounts, and I like to follow a lot more of business and finance accounts, not only just golf, fitness and golf accounts, but there are a few out there that I enjoy looking at and it’s more of just like personal finance. It’s a podcast as well. It has its own Instagram account. I believe personal finance podcast would be it so, and that’s more just life and learning about finance, about business, any business, and I think that’s huge. 0:53:20 – Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, as a entrepreneur, business owner, it makes a ton of sense. All right, last one what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 0:53:30 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely. So all of it have fun, definitely. And I got into a point where I feel like a lot of golfers do, where you’re working hard, trying hard, you get on the course and it’s not really going how you want and you’re getting frustrated and you’re out here playing golf and you have fun. You’re out here, you’re supposed to enjoy this and I think once people realize you’re on the course, you have fun, you loosen up, you’re actually gonna play your best golf as opposed to being in your head. 0:54:04 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I would say have fun. Great advice, all right. Where’s the best place for people to go find you? Follow what you’re doing. I know you’re putting a lot of stuff on social media. Now these guys are getting it rolling. 0:54:14 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so at FGLC Performance it’s on Instagram and then Facebook. Dr Zach Cutler on Facebook, so it kind of goes hand in hand. Put a lot of movement videos on there as well, a lot of videos in regards to what we’re doing in the office and treatment-wise, how we correlate things, and that’s probably the biggest platform I would say. I would say Instagram. So, yeah, awesome. 0:54:43 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, dr Zach, thank you for coming on, really appreciate your time and I loved it. Your servicing the people of St Louis in the golf world. It’s cool to have somebody here that to be able to collaborate with and work with, and I’ve heard such great things about the work that you’re doing and just the mission of helping golfers get stronger, play better and just be the best Tain free golf. 0:55:05 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, 100%, all right. Thanks brother, awesome appreciate it. 0:55:11 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong, and if you found this episode helpful and wanna help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we’d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Marty Jertson (PING Director of Product Development, The Stack System Co-Creator)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 356Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Have you ever wondered how the best golf clubs are designed and manufactured? Marty Jertson, Director of Product Development at Ping and co-founder of the Stack System, joins me in this episode to shed some light on this. Marty takes us through his journey from being a professional golfer to developing high-quality golf products. He shares the behind-the-scenes of product manufacturing and the importance of data in creating golf clubs that enhance player performance. Our conversation ventures into the transformative impact of the Moneyball revolution on golf. We explore how analytics, combined with on-course data, have revolutionized club fitting and design. Marty also shares insights on the crucial aspect of club gapping and its role in determining the distance-accuracy ratio. But it doesn’t end there! We dive into the world of individualized speed training, discussing the benefits it offers to golfers of all ages, and how the Stack System has helped thousands improve their game. We wrap up the chat with Marty reminiscing about his family golf experiences and revealing the best piece of golf advice he’s ever received. If you’re a golf enthusiast or a professional in the game, this episode is a treasure trove of knowledge and tips to improve your game. So, grab your headphones, and let’s tee off this fascinating conversation with Marty Jertson. Main Topics (00:03) Golf Product Development and Stack System Marty Jertzen discusses product development at Ping, the Stack System, the 2018 PGA Championship, and his experience using the Stack System at the 2019 PGA Championship. (08:09) Golf Club Design and Engineering Journey Marty Jertzen’s journey to Ping, engineering degree, professional golf, product design, manufacturing process and data, American manufacturing, and golf club physics and design were discussed. (21:41) Prioritizing Problems and Golf Equipment Recommendations Ping uses data to prioritize goals, custom fit clubs, and analyze distance and accuracy for golfers. (26:58) Club Fitting and Shaft Selection Importance Club fitting, product engineering, controlling misses, club head and shaft differences, and individual force and torque are discussed. (36:48) Improve Golf Performance With Strength Training Marty Jertzon’s Stack System, developed with Dr. Sasha McKenzie’s research, has revolutionized golf with on-course data and custom fitting. (43:53) The Concept of Individualized Speed Training The Stack System offers 30 combinations of weights, personalized programs, and hands-free training with progress tracking. (49:21) Golf Speed Training Benefits for All Speed training offers golfers a low-risk way to lower their handicap, with the Stack System showing great results for all ages, even over 40. (55:49) Improving Golf Speed and Stack Putting Stack Putting helps golfers improve their game with analytics, guidance, and structured practice plans. (01:02:40) Golf With Family and Favorite Courses Marty Jertzen shares his golf experience, recommends Data Golf, and offers the best advice, all found online with The Stack System. (01:07:28) Discussing Fitness and Golf Training Marty discusses club fitting, strength, and vertical force, Stack System hardware and software, speed training, and Stack Putting App. Follow Marty Jertson Instagram: @jertybird Links Mentioned: The Stack System (Get 10% off with code: “18STRONG”) PING Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 356 with Marty Jertson, director of Product Development at Ping and co-founder of the Stack System. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everyone deserves to play better, longer. This week, I’m super excited about our episode with the Director of Product Development at Ping, Marty Jertson, who is also the co-founder of the Stack System with Dr Sasho McKenzie. So in this episode, we’re talking not only about the product development and everything that Ping does to make some of the greatest golf clubs on the planet. We talk about club bidding, we talk about data and how they use that data to develop different clubs to improve every single year, but then we talk about the Stack System and building speed. You’ve probably heard of the Stack System because of guys like Matthew Fitzpatrick and seeing the speed that he’s gained and him winning the US Open and that becoming a big talk of conversation with being able to gain speed even at the highest of levels. Well, the stack is one of the reasons behind that gain in speed, and there’s over 30,000 golfers on the planet now using the Stack System. So, no matter what level you are utilizing the Stack System to gain speed, to gain distance and really more control over your game. So we talk about that with Marty. We talk about his game. He’s played in multiple PGA championships and PGA level tournaments, and this product was really designed because he noticed himself not being able to hang with the guys on the tour. And that’s really where the story starts with the Stack System. So you’re really going to enjoy this episode and we’ll get into it right after this. Our partners over at Lynxhole have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Lynxhole. We’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Lynxhole’s website. So again, 18strongcom slash Lynxhole for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. So, Marty, we’re just kind of talking about the 2018 PGA championship here at Bel Rive. I mean, obviously, you have tons of stories there. Tell me. First of all, you were saying that the fans were so great. I love to brag on St Louis, so it was one of the coolest sporting events I’ve been to. But what was your experience? Had you ever been to St Louis before, and how was that event for you? 0:02:54 – Marty JertsonNo, actually I think that in 2018 was my first time to St Louis. I played saw, I think Colistro turned me in around the area. I have a lot of family from Kansas City but it’s a lot. It’s a ways away, obviously, but they came down and went to the event, which was really fun. But of all the PGA’s I played in, I think the crowd was the most like electric there. Like, I think, because golf you know, big golf doesn’t come to St Louis and in that area that all and I think that’s one of the reasons the PGA of America loved having it there at Bel Rive and the crowd was electric and there were so many kids. I remember like it’s fun for me because I’m just a working guy, like normal guy, like who somebody wants your autograph. It was fun for me being around some of our other pink tour players, like Fee Down, some of these guys and so many kids there, so family oriented, so many kids there. The crowd was just super into the goal. So it was very refreshing. I had a great time. 0:03:54 – Jeff PelizzaroMy nephew. He was there Tuesday. We were talking about how it, you know, rained a ton on Tuesday but got kids were there, like you said, to go get autographs and get things done. They stuck around as long as they possibly could. He’s got a flag with I don’t know how many different names on it and he stuck around and I think Kepka was like one of the last guys to come through so he got Kepka’s name on. It ends up going on a win, and so you know he was. He was super happy, but I mean just the whole, like you said, the electricity of the event, tiger Woods being there. Obviously, from what I, from what I heard, I wasn’t there on Sunday, but they said that on Sunday it was like hearing thunder, like just all the people running from one spot to another with with Tiger, and you made the cut that weekend. You played all four rounds that weekend. Could you, could? I mean, were you out there for any of that? Could you hear it? Could you feel it? 0:04:42 – Marty JertsonSo that actually is. So I made the cut in 19 at Beth page. But this is part of the story, because in 18, this part of my story was in 18, I played at Belle Reeve and I got up here with Luke Lewis and he obviously he’s been playing great lately but he gets the ball so far he was hitting it even further than it and I was kind of like demoralized by my distance in 18 and it was Belle Reeve was kind of soft, so he was all carry and distance mattered a ton that week as well as, like your precision iris play. And so the next I worked on some things to gain a lot of distance and I re qualified for the community championship at Beth page. This kind of relates to Tiger, cause I did play all four rounds of Beth page when I made the cut and I was two groups behind Tiger. So I teed off two groups behind Tiger and anyone on tour is like hey, you either want to be playing with Tiger or you want to be at least two groups away, Cause if you’re in the group of head or the group behind, the crowds are all coming in to get get their spot, or if you’re in the group behind. Everyone’s like trailing away. So actually it was perfect because I got to experience the Tiger Roars, cause he actually he missed the cut at Beth page but he made an eagle whatever he’d make a birdie. It was just like electric the Roars. There’s nothing like that. It was fun to actually be playing in the event in this close proximity, when we experienced a little bit of that, that’s. 0:06:11 – Jeff Pelizzarothat’s so amazing. How many PGA championships have you played in? 0:06:15 – Marty JertsonI’ve played in five PGA championships and one us open, so six majors total. 0:06:22 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, and now? Are you a PGA professional, pga instructor, or is that? How did you get into the PGA championship? 0:06:31 – Marty JertsonYeah. So yes, I am a, I’m in. I think my whole job and career is kind of like a mystery. Sometimes I even have a hard time describing it. But yes, I am a PJ of America member. So I think most PJ of America members the most common is you work at a golf course HintPro, thapro, assistantpro, gm, that type of thing. But you can be a PJ member and work in other avenues, like I think you know, mike Small, the golf coach at Illinois. He’s a PJ member. You’re allowed to be a golf coach. You got to kind of be employed anywhere in the industry. So you know, I in my role at Ping, I’m able to be a PJ member through one of the classifications there and then obviously now also have a Speed Training Aid company, the stack system. So both of those kind of qualify to be a working professional golfer and it’s kind of like getting your masters in the golf industry. Actually, the education process to become a PJ member is pretty rigorous. Takes most folks, you know, three to five years to kind of go through the whole bookwork, education, certification process. 0:07:37 – Jeff PelizzaroNow. So let’s go back to kind of your history, because you went to engineering school, mechanical engineering degree, colorado School of Miners. Is it minors or mines? 0:07:47 – Marty JertsonMines minors school mines yeah. 0:07:50 – Jeff PelizzaroVery, I heard you talk about this on the show with with your buddy, sleaze and Colt and kind of dove deep into your past. But give us a little background on. You know what took you to engineering school, what then got you into, you know, going on to the golf path and actually getting into having a career in the world of golf. 0:08:09 – Marty JertsonYeah, I mean, I think with a lot of kind of folks that do interesting things, like there’s, there’s luck along the way, you know, and knowing that you know me, the right person at the right time, or one little micro decision that sends you down a path. So I think my journey is very much like that, like I was a pretty good junior golfer, but not great right In songs, always kind of this. You know, on the fringe of oh man, I should go try to play for a big D1 school and commit to golf. And I think in the back of my head I was like I’m just not as good as some of these other kids that are kicking my butt and all the junior tournament. So I had to make that decision. Should I go try to play for a D1 team and not do engineering because the coaches won’t let you but it’s just not allowed. I don’t know what it’s like now. Or should I go to you know a better academic school where I could still play golf but make golf the number two priority? And that’s what I chose to do Chloro School, mines Now their academic program is amazing. They have the number one football team. D2 right now in the golf program is phenomenal. So I was kind of at the beginning of that ramping the golf team up from you know kind of like a hobby golf team to now we’re a legitimate team. That’s, if you’re in, want to do math, science, engineering and you also want to play golf, it’d be an awesome place to look at. So that’s kind of how I ended up there and I grew up in a small mining town copper mining town, and so a lot of the you know kind of folks that ran the mines in my town were alumni from the Colorado School Mines. That’s how I, that’s how I knew about the school and had a great time with their way of D2 golf and and spent the summers in Colorado and and that kind of shaped my future of you know, getting a little bit better at golf through college and. But then I kind of graduated from school and I was faced with decision like, do I do my engineering degree or do I play professional golf? And I gave from golf, you know, a run for about a year and I think I realized that the math just is not on your side. As a mining tour golfer. I realized, not faster than a load of my friends, and then it kind of got in the door and been doing my thing here ever since. 0:10:23 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat did you start? What was your first role at Ping? 0:10:27 – Marty JertsonYeah, it was kind of like a sort of like an intern, so to speak, even though I’d already graduated and I helped set up. You know Ping is very committed to making product in American manufacturing Super fun. We have about 800 employees here at our campus and a majority of those, the biggest chunk of those is manufacturing jobs. They’re building the gold books that you’re getting, and so we have, you know, 350, 400 employees that are doing that assembly, work, the loft and lie the gripping, the epoxy, the custom waiting, all that stuff. So my first job was working on the assembly line doing manufacturing, engineering, what’s called lean manufacturing, taking some things from like the Toyota way and how Toyota builds product in Japan and bringing some of those lean manufacturing techniques that allows us. The end goal is we can build a driver that goes into our manufacturing line and exits it about 30 minutes later. It’s literally drawing, while it’s in transit, out to the customer. So, where before that, it took, like you know, days to build one driver. 0:11:34 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then did you soon thereafter get into the designing portion of the clubs, or is that something that you kind of have to work your way into and is that something that you were really excited about doing, or you’re just kind of like I’m at Ping, we’ll see what happens, and go from there? 0:11:50 – Marty JertsonYeah, I think the design part was super intimidating to me. Like it was like how is this done? I had a little bit of what’s called count or 3D design experience, but that seemed very daunting to me to learn a new skill. It was scary, like I didn’t know if I had the belief in myself that I could actually do that one day. Right, I was kind of interested in it, but I’ve always kind of, I think, like a lot of folks out there like questioning, like can I do that? And so, yeah, I was brought in and it’s very much when you do it, when you become a product designer. In our culture we kind of have like to have an apprenticeship model, because there’s the learning curve is so steep and you cannot learn this in school. Like, I think that’s one of the big conclusions you go to school to learn baseline things, foundational things, but every but when you get out of school the real learning starts, right, I think that’s, you know, a big thing I’ve learned over the years. So it was a. It was very daunting to learn that and I had some great mentors that taught me the ropes of the foundational pieces, the design product, and then a really big learning curve to get good at the 3D design and I spent a lot of time where my brain was thinking and seeing every little object I saw how would I create that in 3D? And so there was. There was quite a few years of my life behind the computer doing a lot of 3D work and trying to really get good at the CAD side. And you have to marry that with the with the physics side. There’s tons of golf physics that goes into it. So yeah, I kind of I kind of apprenticed into that design role and started to slowly take on more and more projects and gain confidence, because I didn’t really I kind of struggled with that at the beginning, that you know kind of a lot of that self doubt. And then my confidence got higher and I started to become more interested in things beyond club head design, shafts, grips, friction span, wedge and putters, club fitting, and now it’s kind of been the basis of. I think you know how my career has evolved over. You know now 20 years doing it. 0:13:56 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat was the first club that you had a piece of like from start to finish? 0:14:02 – Marty JertsonYeah, the first one where I was like you know that was exciting time. But a high pressure time is when you get your first official project and you are literally the chief engineer, like you’re in charge of everything the graphics, how it looks, the manufacturing kind of, you know, cost optimization side of things, durability testing, player testing, performance testing. And the first one was the Rapture hybrid. Really cool. It kind of paired with our for the gold enthusiasts out there, historians our Rapture driver, which had composite in it, was our first driver that had composite back there in the in around like 2000, five, six time frame. And so I designed is the early days of hybrids. So you know there wasn’t like a rule, there wasn’t a playbook to follow. You had to kind of pioneer what the shape should be, how it should spin, the loss and materials. And I designed this really cool multi-material construction, tungsten, sole plate, high strength face all welded together. You could loft in Lyon and this type of thing. And it was, it was. It was super fun seeing that club out in retail in the golf shops for the first time. I’ll never forget, you know, working on that one. 0:15:17 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you’re you know there’s so many things I would assume that you can put into a club. You’re talking about the different medals and and ways to to piece these things together, and I mean the chemistry of it. I mean I don’t even know where to begin asking how, how you start to come up with different, different ideas of how do we make these clubs better. I mean, obviously, year after year after year after year, you guys are coming up with new technology, different ways to to make a club better, but then also I’m assuming, there’s quite a few regulations you have to stay within and you know you have to be attentive to, you know what are the rules, what’s USGA approved or what you know. How do you first even kind of start looking at okay, here’s what we have right now, like your current clubs right now. Is it something that you guys are thinking about All right now? How do we, what are we going to do next? Is it? Is it that simple, like just starting with that question and then, or is it gradually kind of improving on what’s already out there? 0:16:17 – Marty JertsonThat’s just a great framework and I think the questions that you asked are a lot of like golf consumers think about like, what are we doing? What are we doing over here? That’s exactly the problem, you know, and I think paying is is a very fun place to work and our team is super talented and we have a great kind of core mission, which is don’t get too hyper focused on the technology side. Stay very focused on defining the problem that the golfer is facing. What is the pain point, right? And so instead of sitting down saying, hey, we need to implement this technology, we at first sit down and say what problem are we trying to solve? What is the pain point for the golfer? Like in some of them can be very simple like we need more ball speed. Right, for the driver to go further, we need more ball speed. Do we need this driver to spin more, spin less? Do we need it to be more forgiving? What is? Then we go into what is the technical definition of forgiveness, like, what is forgiveness? Oh, we need the ball speed to higher at all portions around the face. We need impacts low on the face to be more similar in distance as hits high on the face. And then we say, well, how can we do that? Okay, well, we can make the moment of inertia higher or we can change the face curvature. What levers do we have to pull on? And so we start always start at the problem for the golfer and work back towards what is the technology that we can use to solve those problems. And Ping’s been super committed to that and I think it’s really paid off to help our brand be such a good long term brand that some years were bringing enormous innovations to the market, like turbulent and you talked about Jeff. One one question is I think a lot of people are thinking the exact same thing as yours oh, they’re all regulated right. Like well, one of the ways to force an engineer to be creative is to put a wall in front of them Because you’re forced into creativity. Engineers and designers a lot of times struggle If things are too open ended like it, like if you have no rules or no regulations. Sometimes that would be harder than no one you got to play within this box. I can kind of sneak around over here, sneak a little performance over here. Turbulent is a perfect example that there’s no USG regulation on how aerodynamically efficient you can make a driver right. There’s no that. Now they do have regulations on features and where you can put features and the size and shape. So I think that’s a great example of cracking the code. On having a driver that’s very big but it’s aerodynamic, it’s dry coefficient is like we have a driver that’s super small, right. So that’s a way that that’s one example where we can kind of have an innovation that’s not even in the spout and being regulated, and then we have some really strong patents on that and protected things that nature. 0:19:19 – Jeff PelizzaroSo the Turbulent? What exactly is a Turbulent? 0:19:24 – Marty JertsonThat’s a great question. It is what it sounds like it. Is it Turbulents there? No, I’m just kidding. So it’s these tiny little. Well, they’re not tiny, the size and shape of them are very exact, but they’re little ridges right on the crayon of the driver. So that’s where the face meets the top of the driver. There’s these ridges, and on our driver we have six of them. What they do is they create a micro layer of Turbulents that takes the airflow. We have some really cool videos that we’ve done in the wing tunnel. So the airflow going over the top of the meat in the face and joining the crown, it’s very blunt. It’d be like a pickup truck or something To make a driver go be very forgiving. It’s naturally not very aerodynamic, and so what these ridges do is they give the airflow more momentum to stay attached to the crown, because normally you get this vacuum effect. You get a low pressure area that creates like a you can think of it like a vacuum, like sucking the driver back, words the wrong direction, getting a net force on the driver going the wrong direction. And that’s what normally happens if you don’t have Turbulent. It’s like a pickup truck, huge weight back there, sucking the ruin in the gas mileage of the pickup truck. So what Turbulenters do? They keep that airflow more attached to the crown, give the air momentum and it reduces the drag coefficient significantly. So super cool. We developed that using Flow CFD software, which is like a virtual wind tunnel, and we did a lot of little experiments getting the size, shaped, spacing, contouring. We doing some wind tunnel testing down here at Arizona State University. 0:21:12 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, you guys probably just have the coolest toys to play with ever, I would imagine. 0:21:19 – Marty JertsonYeah, we got some good kids. Like we have a really cool Mark Nellis motion capture system which is kind of measures the twisting, drooping, lead lagging, how the shaft bends, basically, if we do that it like on 700, 800 frames a second, it’s kind of got like a live MRI of your Gulf swing. And that’s one of our favorite, favorite research pieces of kit that we have here. 0:21:41 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s so awesome. You mentioned that you guys always work from the problem back. What are, what are some of the the top problems that you guys are constantly trying to solve? I’m gonna guess distance accuracy, and you know which one do you guys tend to do? Lean towards one or the other, is it? You know, working on a little bit of everything. 0:21:59 – Marty JertsonThere’s been a big kind of money ball revolution in golf and it kind of goes down to the. The core of it was like a new statistics that showed up in all Cold strokes game and this was originated by kind of a gone father of golf statistics names mark mark Brody and his son, chris Brody works with me and for me. Here is my colleague, but you know solving problems here, so we’re very, very tied to that and I bring that up because it’s helped given a really good Framework on what our priorities are. Shouldn’t we focus more on distance? Should we focus more on accuracy? And the other cool piece that we have access to now is a long of all in course data. So I think that’s one of the coolest things is that People evaluated golf equipment through a custom fitting and then you go play golf and it’s kind of like, okay, good luck, we’ll never see again and see what you need new clubs in three, five years. Those days are kind of gone. Now we can throw things like Arcos, which is you know stats, smart stats, tracking, gps, integrated. We know what clubs you’re hitting when on the golf course, where you might be better or worse. We can start bringing that on course big data into our design and fitting environment and it’s super exciting times, I you know. Quite frankly, I think we’re just scratching the surface on that front and that’s helping us drive those priorities. Where on the golf course can we help golfers play better golf? So that’s exposing some things like your club gapping, that’s the spacing, the yardage spacing you have between all your clubs. We’re doing some really fun things that are driven by on course data. You know on course play. So I think you know of course we want the driver to go super far. We also wanted to go straight. We’re using really cool analytics to give us that ratio of how much further versus straighter and we actually have that boiled down to like a actual simple ratio. You know if your everyday player should be hitting it further in a ratio of two to one, as Compared to their straightness from up, from a statistical standpoint, stroke being standpoint. And then you know we want the copes to sound good, we want to feel good, and then we’re we’re using on course play data To help prioritize gapping and things of that nature. 0:24:16 – Jeff PelizzaroI didn’t realize that you guys had and I should have realized this that you had access to all of that, on course, stuff from Things like Arcos, and that’s amazing to me. That and just I mean goes to show how much is involved in the research that you guys are Doing and really trying to figure out. What are the different gaps? Where do people like me versus you know, super low handicappers? You know, guys like you professionals, when you guys are, I mean, obviously you have such a wide array of products for different levels of golfers. Is there one you know, handicap level or or grouping of handicapped levels that makes up the biggest demographic and does that drive a lot of what you’re doing? 0:24:57 – Marty JertsonYeah for sure that’s a great question. Yeah, is that? Bug Ping was founded by, you know, a frustrated, really good smart, frustrated engineer, carson soul, I mean. So he, he kind of solved the problem for himself, which was like he was. He was like a, you know, high-handicap golfer that wanted to get better and the game seemed too hard and he wanted to bring better engineering through the equipment. So we ask ourselves that question a lot. If, if we could only have one model of product for the entire market, what would it be? And by for that’s like our G series product, like our G430? You know, max driver in our G430 irons. By far that’s kind of like our modern-day I2 and for those that golf historians out there, they know the I2 iron which was the number one iron for like a decade in the golf marketplace. Our G430 is that iron that if we only made one it would work amazing for everybody. And but the peak of the market is your high handicapped golfer, right, your weekend warrior. They’re trying to get a little bit better when they can. But they got families, they got John’s, but they get out there on the weekends and they want something that’s gonna have plenty of forgiveness. Go relatively far go, relatively high, and that’s where our G series product is. 0:26:20 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat would you say to? Because I think that demographic is a lot of the people listening to the show We’ve got, you know, instructors and medical professionals listening to, but I like to think that our main demographic listening is obviously the fitness minded golfer, many of them probably in like the 35 plus range and Varying in all ranges of handicaps. But what are some of the things that you would suggest to to that crew Regarding what’s it, what’s most important when you’re looking at new clubs? I know I’ve heard you talk about club fitting and how important that can be. What are some of the recommendations, just simple, low hanging fruit things that you would tell these people? 0:26:57 – Marty JertsonYeah, great. Question number one is Don’t be intimidated to go get a club fitting right and be open minded. Be open minded. We’ve built some great tools. If you find a good pink club fitter out there, we have some amazing fitting tools to get you dialed so you can have your line. Be open, that you can gain Distance or performance through the club designs and equally as much, it’s like a Venn diagram. You want to gain performance through the fitting and you need to marry those two together. You want to have them both have have both the fitting in the, the product engineering Benefiting you okay. So the fitting is super important, equally as important as the product. So be very open minded to try some things like you might have a Superfast club at speed but you might be better because your transition or now you need to launch the ball in a little bit of a softer shaft, you know, so kind of maybe drop your ego a little bit, then you you might have tried in the past right, so that might be something to think about, but definitely get. You, get on, get a club fitting on a launch monitor. That’s super important and be mindful of not only your one best shot. That might happen you want to look at how consistent they are. You want to look at your how good or your missus. Golf is very much a game that you want to kind of control your misses and you want your misses to be better. So that’s one I think valuable piece of advice when you go into that fitting environment Is, yes, look at your good shots you want to hear your good shots great. But also look at the shots that you don’t hit as good, and that’s where you can really differentiate from better product in Proc that the engineering of the design is as good as your missus. I. 0:28:45 – Jeff PelizzaroLike you say, don’t, don’t focus on one shot that you hit, perfect, because I feel like that’s typically how we think in our head, like oh, my seven, I was one 165, because I did it one time and I probably sculled it. So club head versus shaft, I know that. You know, I’ve heard so many times. You know the shaft is super important. What are some of the things about the shaft and I heard you talk about this in the episode on the sub part, talking about and you even Just mentioned about the transition and how that plays a big deal in in what shaft is right for you. But club head versus shaft is one more important than the other or does it just kind of depend? And that’s where the fitting really makes the biggest difference? 0:29:25 – Marty JertsonYeah, so you’re gonna control most of the performance through the properties of the head. For example, you know I can’t give you an L flex shaft and an X flex shaft and that will not change how the ball flies as much as me giving you like a nine degree driver versus a 20 degree driver. So the head is the most important from a launch condition in a performance standpoint, but that’s not saying the shaft is not important. The shaft is really a fitting lever. So again, it’s you want to marry them both together and what the shaft can do for you is you want it to kind of match your, your, your kinetics. How do you apply force to the club? Right, this is like your signature, how you apply force and torque, and you mentioned, jeff, like your transition. So the transition is super important because that’s where you change the direction at the top of your backswing and how you apply force and torque to the handle through your hands. There’s a lot of biomechanics that goes into why everyone does that a little bit differently, but that is the secret sauce of of shaft fitting Is fitting you to the right shaft for A your club at speed. B whether you need to hit a little bit lower. But the most important thing is that you kind of fall in love with how that shaft is going to behave, bend and deflect, with how you individual golfer apply force and torque through the hands to the handle during the transition, and so a tons of our research goes into how do we build better tools and make that very easy, because that sounds hard and mysterious and overwhelming and intimidating. But we have tools to help our fitters do that and get you into the right shaft. So you have two players that both swing the club. It’s the same speed at the bottom, but they’re going to need totally different shafts based on how they transition it. One might apply a force like more straight along the shaft during the down swing and one might pull down on the handle and deflect it more. And you want to marry how much what you do there in transition to the stiffness of the shaft. 0:31:46 – Jeff PelizzaroCan you give us an example of two guys on tour that you know? You know, like two different style swings or two different transitions that maybe give us a better visual of and maybe what you know, if you happen to know what they’re using? Yeah, totally. 0:32:00 – Marty JertsonSo like a smooth transition would be if anyone out there could picture Louis Ustazen like, sweet, swinging, silky looking. I want that swing. Oh, it looks so good and he has what we call a smooth transition. So and this is a really fun story he is typically used. Even though he swings it like 100, you know, in swing to 118 club speed he is used very soft shafts. He’s even used a shaft out there called the auto flex for a while which is basically like a ladies flex in terms of the bending stiffness Well, and he kind of experimented down with the little for a little while. But he’s typically used the equivalent of an S flex or stiff flex shaft, even though you know, if you go off some some fitting algorithm it might be. Oh, he needs a triple X based on his swing speed. So he’s wanted. You can visualize him where the club and the shaft go in and then they return closer to the same trajectory on the opposite end of the spectrum, if you guys can kind of visualize well, a Victor Hovland’s the modern day example. Or Cameron champ, both very high club and speed. Cameron champs off the charts. He’s in the you know, the top of the PJ tour for club at speed but they have what we call a very abrupt transition where in that change of direction they’re pulling down on the handle a lot and that that creates a lot of deflection in the shaft. So for those players we need a shaft that’s going to minimize or optimize that deflection, and that’s generally a shaft that’s much, much stiffer in the butt section. And so if you give those guys, if you swap Louis shaft with Victor Hovland, they got the same club at speed. Both of them would go crazy and have a erratic results because we’re not marrying out their kinetics in that transition. 0:33:54 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that just goes to reiterate the importance of going and having somebody look at your swing, somebody that understands it, have the track man, be able to tell the different you know scenarios, look at the different numbers and fit you for the proper one, right, Exactly. 0:34:09 – Marty JertsonYes, yeah, you are. The shaft is all about fitting, it’s all about matching it to you individually, absolutely. 0:34:18 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually living them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, FirstFormcom forward slash 18STRONG and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to FirstFormcom that’s P-H-O-R-M com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So we talked a little bit about your experience from 2018 to 2019. You know, seeing these guys just bomb, bomb balls, it was really wet out there. It’s my understanding Is that kind of where some of the you went and worked on your speed a whole lot. Is that where the idea of the stack started to percolate a little bit, and how did you and Sasha McKenzie, who was your partner and co-founder in the stack system, how did you guys even start to work on collaborating together and give us the story of that. 0:36:48 – Marty JertsonYeah, I think my whole career has been trying to create products and I think there’s a good this is like, I think an advice I’ve read or learned about is you want to try to solve your own problem and then, if you can do that, you have like maximum skin in the game and then try to scale it and help others Right. And I think and I’ve tried to create I’ve almost created like a whole ecosystem around that, because golf is such a painful sport. It’s so hard you go out there and so rare to win. Like almost every time you quote unquote lose if in a second or worse than that. It’s such a painful sport. So, yes, in 2018, when I played the look list when I was in St Louis, that was the tipping point for me, where I was like that was my, I think, third PGA championship and I was like I could definitely get in another one of these, like I could qualify again through the PGA national championship and all those things. My skill was good in a lot of areas but by far, I was at that point where I was hitting it way too short to compete at that level and my life’s dream, my Corona dream, was to make the cut in major Like I was. Like man, I want to play the weekend in one of these things. I don’t want to just come up, come over here, be the club pro, not play the weekend, and off you go and pack your bags and kind of is what it’s going to be. Everyone could cancel. Now I want to. I want to define the odds here and play the weekend. It was fun to watch Michael blog through that this year by the way, it’s super fun watching him and I’ve talked to him a few times about it. So, yeah, that’s when the whole I guess the pain of like how do I solve it further? And so Sasha, dr Sasha McKenzie, who’s probably golf leading biomechanist he’s been a consultant for us at Ping with research, research on things like shaft video, just talked about club fitting, the biomechanics of the golf swing and how those can help with design and club fitting, and so you know he. But he’s also a track and field coach. He has tons of experience with fitness training and things of that nature, his wife’s track and field coach and a PT that’s kind of what they do up there in Canada. So I talked to him after that event. I think he was down here for a conference. I was like, man, I need to hit it further. And he was like, well, number one thing, we got to get you a little bit stronger. So he, we, you know I got a ground on the deadlift protocol that he gave me spread sheet, all planned out perfectly, and I’d never even done that. You know I was doing other training stuff, some kettlebell stuff and things of that nature, but I was like, okay, I’m in. And you know I started doing that in my garage. I got my, my trap bar, you know, started out with a couple 45s and boom, there I started then. Every time I needed to level up I’d go to play, to get in sports and get some more plates and what do you know, there I was, like you know, three or four months later I was like deadlifting like 400 pounds out of nowhere and I was like holy moly Okay. So that gave me some potential. I had some back. My back was dicey, I think you know in my early twenties the hernia disc things, that nature. My back feels to go right now like zero issues. So that’s been super fun. I think that’s a fun finding. But I kind of have that base, that base level of strength, and then it was like, okay, how do I get faster? Those are kind of two different things. I need to have the strength and the base level of strength there to make sure I, you know, felt good, have the potential for more, more vertical force. So I kind of have that now in my system, so to speak. Then I need to work on the technique and the speed training side. And he had dabbled with some research on speed training and the thing with speed training. People have kind of done this in golf they will do like gross level, what’s called over speed and overload training, where they would go like super light, super heavy, nothing in between. And he he knew from his research that you had to get much more precise with the speed training. You had to be very precise with the resistance levels, just like you would be when you’re programming weightlifting right. And so we kind of built that hardware that turned out ended up being the commercial product which is now the stack system. That allowed us to have very precise loads on the end and then cycle and build a training program and protocols around having that very precise loads and that has absolutely been the secret to both my speed gains and now that we productize into the stack system. Basically, when folks use the stack, you’re you’re literally getting social McKenzie designing your protocols for you, like it’s all all of his brain kind of packed into the, the algorithms in the app, which is super cool and then a lot of fun. So that turned my personal game around and helped me gain tons of speed and distance. I mean, I was one you know, I think for the golfers out there that kind of know ball speed I was. I was in the one. I had regressed into the 160s ball speed range, which was low on the PJ tour. By the time I hit Beth Beach in May of 2019, I was playing golf with high 170s ball speed, which means you’re, which means I was up back to above kind of standard in terms of distance, and then I even dabbled with playing in the 180s a little bit on the golf course, and now I’m trying to, you know, kind of maintain those gains and things of that nature, but it was an absolute game changer in a hundred percent the reason why I was able to a hit my driver further in Beth Beach. But then the other benefit that people don’t talk about is you hit your irons higher right, and so that was that landed steeper, have a little bit more speed out of the rough and all the. There’s other ancillary benefits that come to more speed than just hitting your driver further. 0:42:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I think that’s what we. We think of most is just the driver just off the T box when you were playing with Luke. Give us an idea like how far behind a guy like him were you at that time in 2018? And what maybe would be his typical ball speed? 0:42:55 – Marty JertsonLuke at the time was in the 190s ball speed. I think he’s actually maybe tighten things up a little bit. I know he just won on tour and his I saw some of his ball speed talk TV that were a little bit less so he may have relaxed his speeds just a little bit, but he was literally like 50 or 60 yards by me. So he was in the 190s and I was in the 160s and I would tee off and I’d be like, okay, I’d like, and there was no, there was hardly any roll there, kind of Zoysia fairways, and it was whether it rained that week and hot and humid in the summertime. So I my we were kind of exaggerated by the conditions. If you weren’t from our conditions I’d be rolling it out there a little bit more. But he was all carrying to like 330, 340. And I’d be all carry out there to my like 280 or whatever it was at the time. I’m just going oh, like mulling, but if I went back there with my speed today I would have a way better chance of bell reef. 0:43:54 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen I look at the stack system and I haven’t had a chance to use it, but I have several clients that have used it and the thing that I was blown away by is the intuitive intuitiveness of you know you think of it’s just a club that has some weights on it that you swing. Really, I mean the biggest piece is the app and the algorithms and, like you said, it’s basically Sasha McKenzie in your phone. So it’s not just a blanket program for everybody. It’s based on your performance, what you’re doing. So give us a little insight into how that works. And I mean, obviously, that had to take so much time and effort to put all that stuff together. 0:44:29 – Marty JertsonYeah, so we needed hardware that could do it. I mean, it’s definitely a hardware software, you know, combining holistic solution. We needed, we needed hardware that gave you very fine spacing so we could change the loads, right, so the hardware has five weights, but we need to do the combinatorics on how we laid out all the masses of those weights. It gives you 30 different combinations. Right, I feel like you’re going into to do curls or something. You know if you didn’t have all those weights, you’d have like 10s, 50s and 100s. I mean, how are you going to progress, right, you know through that, through that range, and so we needed the hardware to do it. And then so the hardware gives us very tight spacing and then you are absolutely right and the key is that everybody gets their own individualized programs. The first thing you do when you onboard to the stack app is you go through what’s called a baseline session. This is like your assessment, and we have you swing your own driver, you get warmed up, you all that. We have you swing your own driver. Then we have you swing the stack with light, medium, light, medium, medium, heavy, heavy loads and we generate. The app then generates what’s called a force-fellocity curve and based on that force-fellocity curve, it then generates a customized program with specific training loads for you. And then what’s cool about that is that, let’s say, you’re going through your program and as you level up your speed, so if you start getting faster, the app looks at your previous workout and will generate adjustments not only to just one six-week program. That’s not frozen and baked in time, it’s constantly looks at your progress. It will start to level up with you as you go through it. So every workout is customized. Every single workout that you do is customized in the app. And then once you get done with a training program, which is nearly around six weeks six, seven, eight weeks you do another equivalent of that baseline or assessment session, post-test, post-program assessment and then it compares how you’ve done are there any changes in your force-fellocity profile? And it will kind of ping the AI which is getting like that and saw Joe’s brain in there and they were training the algorithms with everyone who’s doing it and formulate your next program will give you the highest probability to gain more speed and the folks that have gained the most speed do it over two programs. So folks gain a ton of speed in your first six weeks. The folks that go two programs gain a massive amount of speed, like 10 to 12 miles an hour in COVID speed. 0:47:19 – Jeff PelizzaroHoly cow, I’m blue, we have so one of my friends and clients, so the podcast studio is also a test to a gym here and so, and we have a hitting day out there. And so one day I’m walking out and I hear I just hear my buddy Andrew going 96. Like. And I’m like, what are you doing? And he’s like, oh, I’m talking to the app. So you know, yeah, had the little speed monitor, so you have to have the speed. I have to have a speed monitor to do this correctly. But it was cool because he’s just you know he would record what it was and you don’t have to go type things in. It’s like he just speaks it out loud, the app captures it, puts it in the spread. That means I was like holy cow, this is just amazing, so so cool. 0:48:01 – Marty JertsonYeah, so that’s what we call that kind of voice entry mode, because you know, eventually we’ll probably have like a radar solution, that Bluetooth through the app. But for now you can just throw your radar down on the ground, you swing and that, yeah, you just talk it in and you can turn on dictation mode and Siri in the app just captures it. Boom, you can train hands free and it’s totally seamless. It has the timers in there, so it controls your rest times absolutely perfectly. And we continue to try to what we continue to kind of refine those in the app. If you break a personal record, the app goes crazy for you. It’ll start cheering for you. So we really drive a lot of the incentives in the app and that is super fun is being able to do that for Do you find that some people are almost a little intimidated when they hear speed training? 0:48:49 – Jeff Pelizzaroand you know, I mean because I’m thinking of somebody like, obviously, myself, but you know somebody like my dad who’s in his late 60s and is probably thinking I’m not gonna do that, I don’t wanna hurt myself. You know, what would you say to somebody that is kind of in that position and in that mindset where this might seem a little intimidating, might seem like too much to do? What’s your response to anybody with those questions? 0:49:11 – Marty JertsonYeah, no it’s good, I think, especially for the. I think especially for folks that are that age, like they’re a little bit older, like hey, is it too late for me to gain speed? Or you know things that nature. Well, on the intimidation side, I would say that you know speed training, if you’re a golfer that wants to get better, is the lowest gaining speed is the lowest hanging fruit. The lowest hanging fruit to lower your sport. Like it is the easiest thing to do with the stack. Like it’s just, if you do, just give us six weeks and you’re gonna gain speed and it’s the most correlated skill to golf handicap. Like if you plon handicap and speed, that’s the most macro level correlated skill. So if you increase your speed you’re gonna lower your handicap. Okay, so that’s number one. Number two, in terms of kind of the injury side or oh, I might get hurt and things of that nature you are way more probable to get hurt actually playing golf because the forces that occur when you hit a golf ball or the ground or a root or a tough lie or things of that nature are in order of magnitude higher than anything you would experience with speed training. So you’re much more likely to get hurt playing golf right Than you would be speed training. So that’s kind of one thing. Obviously, you wanna we say that with make sure you kind of or in good physical condition, you don’t have any underlying injuries and things of that nature. That’s where the baseline strength level and everything that you guys do is super important because there’s pairing speed training together with your overall fitness training. Make sure you’re in good shape for both playing golf and quality of life off the golf course. And then I would say also that we have had some of our best reviews from our stack. Customers are golfers that are 60 years of age and older and we have we actually have a good number of golfers in their 80s that are doing speed training and gaining speed and sending us notes over and saying this is a game changer, it’s really fun, and they like the structure of how we have it. Like I think that’s one of the fun things. So one thing we’ve done cause we have tons of when now we have close to 30,000 users that are doing the stack and we charted. We charted age on the X axis and speed on the Y axis and what you see is you see this peak in club and speed. This is just of all of our users, right? You see this peak around 40 years old of club and speed. And then after that, after you hit age 40, up to our 80, 90 year olds that are using it, you see this decline that’s going down about one mile an hour per year. So if you are over the age of 40, approximately gaining like maintaining speed is actually gaining speed. That’s another perspective to have on this for the older golfer. Right, if you’re maintaining, you’re gaining on your peers. 0:52:17 – Jeff PelizzaroOne of the things that we’ve been talking about a lot lately on the show is simply the fact that that whole crowd, and I would say even the 35 and 40 and beyond, tend to just kind of neglect the need to move fast and to keep that in your, just in your repertoire. And whether that be speed training, whether that be doing some things in the gym that just get your body and utilizing all of our tissues, tend to get a little tighter, a little stiff, a little less elastic, and it’s something that we can train. And obviously you guys are seeing this with the stack, and I mean up into your 80s, you can make improvements or at least really prevent any kind of loss there, or most of the loss. So that’s just so refreshing to hear, especially because you have the science and the data behind it to show people like, hey, once you hit 40, it’s not over, you still put in the work, you can make significant, significant gains. 0:53:11 – Marty JertsonOh, yeah, no, absolutely. We have stackers that have trained in their mid 50s, early 60s that have gained. Maybe they’ve lost five miles an hour speed or last decade, but now that they go with the stack they do a couple of programs and they gain 10, and now they’re faster than they’ve ever been in these 55 or 60. This is definitely possible. The other thing I was gonna say, which I’ve personally changed my mind on or I guess was an unintended consequence of the stack is that there’s a lot of value to swinging fast and training without the consequence of hitting the ball right. So I think a lot of golf coaches and teachers are very focused on hey, I need you to get to hit the center of the face and things of that nature. There’s plenty of time to work on that skill. You have three technique and golf lessons. There’s a lot of value to swinging an object fast with no consequence to hitting a golf ball. That was definitely something that I’ve really leaned into and enjoyed and that a lot of our customers I think are enjoying about training with the staff. 0:54:23 – Jeff PelizzaroTechnique was gonna be my next question, because I’ve had people say well, I don’t wanna ingrain. If I’m already working on my swing, I don’t have my technique down, I don’t wanna ingrain this improper swing and be swinging out of my shoes. How much are you thinking about technique at all when you’re swinging the stack, or is it simply go as fast as you can? 0:54:44 – Marty JertsonI think so that’s another thing. I work on my technique while I’m stacking. So let’s say I have a, you know, some restriction. My hip turn here and I wanna get in more side bend. I want to increase my hand path length. I want to work on getting more spike, the pressure under my lead foot more earlier in the transition to get more vertical force. I will actually do those wall stacking and it’s way easier to take that swing change again because I have no consequence to hitting the ball. I’m working on movements. I’m working on very like kind of internal focus of things and then when you go play golf, those things are in hit a golf ball. Those changes are baked in more because I’ve trained them while training the stack and one of the other things about speed training with the stack it’s because you get feedback on your speeds, literally every single swing. It’s maximum feedback. You get feedback on your speeds. Golfers can self explore what things are gonna increase their speed. Right, let’s say you’re a golfer, you start with hip mobility and you’re gonna go in there. You’re gonna be like I’m gonna try lifting my lead heel, I’m gonna do the step drill, I’m gonna step with the right hand of golfer. You’re gonna take a little step with your left foot, will go in the transition of your swing. You can experiment with those things. I’m gonna try a bigger shoulder turn. I’m gonna let my neck come back. I’m gonna do all these things. A longer hand path I’m gonna try some things with my wrist angles. I’m gonna try a faster backswing and you can see immediately does that spike your speeds graph? So the instant, continuous feedback to help drive your speeds is another great benefit in the stack. I just think people need to get over that worry that oh, it’s gonna ruin my tempo, it’s gonna ruin my technique. You’ve seen that Fitzpatrick literally training on the stack and winning the US Open. Do you think it’s 40 of them or not? You know Victor Hoffman. He’s got crazy on the stack. He’s driving it longer and straighter than ever. 0:56:56 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s so fun to watch these guys these days and I was talking to a PGA Tour player the other day and he’s like man. I was watching Fitzpatrick hit the ball the other day and it’s just amazing to see from a year and a half ago or two years ago or whatever to now and just how different it is and how much change he’s made. It’s pretty special. 0:57:15 – Marty JertsonI think what’s fun about him is he’s not a mega athlete. You know, he’s not Brooks Kepke out there all buff and ripped and do all the stuff. He’s in great shape, don’t get me wrong, but he just looks like your average bill person, is somebody we could all relate to. 0:57:32 – Jeff PelizzaroTotally All right. I got to ask you about the stack putting because you know we think the stack, we think speed we think. But then I hear, no, there’s a stack putting now. 0:57:42 – Marty JertsonThere’s more. 0:57:43 – Jeff PelizzaroTell me more. Tell me more. So give us a lowdown on stack putting. I know we’re running a little low on time here, so we’ll give kind of the short, brief version, because we got some questions asked before we close up. But stack putting where did this come from and how’s it doing? I think yeah. 0:57:59 – Marty JertsonSo I think both Sasha and I, like we’re busy people like everyone else, like we got jobs, families, like all this stuff in a big theme for both of us is what is the most effective use of time when I’m practicing or training? We don’t want to waste time, right, so we again, we wanted to productize this. People go to the putty green and they have it’s too open ended. They have no idea what to do. They have no idea. You ask people that miss left or they miss right. People can’t remember. If they do give you an answer, who knows if it’s right or wrong? They have no stats to back it up and so stack putting is like having Sasha so guide you to play 18 holes on the putting green. That is the most intentional practice of 15 minutes on the putting green. The app guides you through playing 18 holes on the putting green. It tells you which putts to hit and you’re hitting the putts that matter the most. From a strokes game putting perspective, that means the puts that mean the most to your score, the lower your score. And then it gives you really cool analytics to show you what your tendencies are Right, so it’ll. It could show you that you miss left or right, or 90% of the time to the left, and without tracking it you wouldn’t, you would have no idea, like people don’t, don’t know that information. So that actually the analytics in there are really cool. Spider diagrams and things of that nature are more advanced and more nuanced than even PJ Tour players get with shot link data. So, yeah, it’s super cool. Then you can create your own little programs in there with the creative mode and then you could also track very detailed your on course, putting stats as well. So, yeah, if you’re if you’re a stack or a speed trainer, you get actions to it or you can just download and do stack putting directly. Now, very intentional focus putting practice, awesome, I love there’s a quote. 0:59:52 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m trying to think who was. I think it was Trent Werner, another another PJ instructor that we work with, and he said golf is the worst practice sport on the planet. And what’s so cool is seeing things like this that are coming, coming about to really help guide us. Just like you were saying before, when designing clubs, if a designer doesn’t have any kind of like walls or anything like any direction, like we can go anywhere. And same thing with putting practice golf go to the driving range is like you can go, spend hours and hours and come back and not have achieved a single thing. 1:00:24 – Marty JertsonWe’re trying to change that, we’re trying to do it. So the stack, the speed training it tells you exactly what to do, when to do it. Send a calendar, swing it when the countdown timer goes on. You can put reminders on your phone, send them to your calendar and then putting is the same way. Do exactly this. And people love, not that not having that open, open emptiness. 1:00:44 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. All right, Marty. A couple of questions just to finish up here with the 18STRONG crew. First of all, you caddy shack, or happy Gilmore guy. 1:00:53 – Marty JertsonI have to go caddy shack just because it’s I think it’s going to stay on the test of time better, you know. But I love them both. But I’d slight, slight tip of the needle, the caddy shack. 1:01:06 – Jeff PelizzaroIf you get to pick a walkup song, what’s your walkup song to the first T box? 1:01:12 – Marty JertsonI’ve been playing this song lately in my car before my tournaments. Try to get me pumped up. I don’t even know how I found this thing, but it’s by DJ Snake. He’s, like you know, EDM type artist or whatever, called bird machine and my big name is. My big name is journey bird for birdie you know, and I’m like I want to be a bird machine when I go out and play this tournament, so I don’t know why it’s a strange one, but let’s begin me pumped up. 1:01:36 – Jeff PelizzaroI cannot wait to listen to that song. All right, is there a book that you’ve read in your past that has meant a lot to you, that you’ve learned a lot from and that maybe you tend to recommend to people? 1:01:50 – Marty JertsonYeah, I feel I have so many domains of life, like you got my family life, my work life, my corporate life, my startup life, then my, my golf life, my fitness life I kind of have a favorite in each category. I’m in the golf world, I think I mentioned every shot counts by more Brody Yep. So from a golf domain perspective of my life, I like that one. I really like joc-o-wheel-anks, I think extreme ownership. I loved applying that to aid my personal life, my family, my kids. You know how to empower people, build people up and bring that into the working world. It’s kind of a contemporary one. I like the older books that stand the test of time more, but I love the principles in that book. 1:02:34 – Jeff PelizzaroExcellent If you could pick a dream for some who’s who’s your dream for some that you get to play with Anyone in the world, past, present. You can, and you can take them anywhere. 1:02:44 – Marty JertsonYou know what, man, I’m going to say? I’m living the dream because right now I’m playing. I’ve been playing along golf this summer with my wife and my two boys. My wife, my two boys we got the perfect foursome and they’re they’re getting old. I have to really like enjoy golf and just kind of move around the golf course, and I’ve actually I’ve loved that more than anything. Playing with my family, that’s so awesome. How old are the boys? They’re seven and nine, almost 10. Great age. 1:03:11 – Jeff PelizzaroGreat ages, great ages, all right. So follow up question to that If you could take that foursome. We’ve got the 18STRONG jet. We’ve got a fueled up ready to go. Marty’s taking the wife and the kiddos anywhere you want to go play golf. Where are you going to take? 1:03:26 – Marty Jertsonthem. It’s hard not to say Augusta, because how else are you going to get on that thing unless you’re on the 18STRONG jet? Flying right in there. I’ve been there a few times but man, that’s the one that I mean. You know, even people very connected in the golf industry never, never, get away to get on that thing, augusta let’s do it. 1:03:46 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s the coolest place that you have been able to get on? 1:03:51 – Marty JertsonMan, I’ve played some great courses over the years, you know. I think Oakmont was a great one. I mean I played the whole course with my wife and my father-in-law. I played there a couple times Turnberry in Scotland. I’ve been able to play some of the great links courses in Scotland. Yeah, I mean the whole course is. The whole course, quite frankly, was very tough to be, you know, just for the whole history of it, and being able to play that a few times has been awesome. 1:04:18 – Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, is there a social media account that you’ve been following, maybe geeking out on a little bit that you recommend to the 18STRONG crew, and this could be golf, this could be fitness, this could be anything, this could be the bird machine guys. 1:04:34 – Marty JertsonThere’s one I really like. I really like what these guys do is called data golf, and they do. They have a lot of great analytics on their website. That’s kind of you know, free to use and explore. It’s a great way to explore like applied statistics from the golf industry and they always run really cool little 10 bits and nuggets from golf tournaments around the world. So data golf super fun to check it out. If you’re either a golf golf gig or a general data geek, check them out. 1:05:05 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I didn’t prep you with this question, just going to throw this one in there. If you got to play your home course and you’re playing against our buddy Drew Sleazy Stoltz, how many shots is who beating who by? You get to pick the course. 1:05:21 – Marty JertsonMan, drew, drew. I gotta say Drew plays more golf than me, right? So that I think we’re going to be pretty tight. Actually, I think I’m probably at the most if we’re playing a lot of golf, like give them like one aside. But he’s part of these amateurs here in Arizona that play more golf than the pros and, quite frankly, probably play better than the pros. 1:05:45 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a? Is there a transfusions handicap in there at all? 1:05:51 – Marty JertsonExactly. Sleazy man is good man. I tell you what he needs. I think next year might be the year they get that four ball championship That’d be sick. 1:05:59 – Jeff PelizzaroThat would be sick, all right man. Last thing what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 1:06:06 – Marty JertsonSomething that started with me a lot, you know and I think has helped me in big tournaments, in a general, even teach my kids is one very simple quote, which is move to relax. I think a golf you kind of like, even when you’re putting everyone’s holding their frozen, you’re like dense still lighting up a thousand times and then you know, and then the anxiety builds and things of that nature. I’ve turned into being like a very kind of static player to moving a lot. I waggle, I move when I tap my putter. I’ve, you know, kind of prime my nervous system before I try to hit a long drive, like the waggle is very big how you move before you swing. So I would say, even when it’s like short game stuff where you’re trying to be very precise on your putting, you’ll be afraid to move waggle, jiggle, wiggle, move to relax. 1:06:58 – Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, Marty. Last thing where can everybody find you find information about the stack? We’ll link it all up in the show notes. 1:07:05 – Marty JertsonYeah, definitely Thestacksystem.com Check us out there. Social media we got some really cool social media. You can see all of our stackers out there training and sharing their progress, gaining speed and having a lot of fun. So join that community. On the social side Folks can find me, or primarily on Twitter, twitter slash X, now at at Jerty Bird, j-e-r-t-y-b-i-r-d. Give me up, I’m so into kind of the whole trying to get better community and, you know, connecting the fitness side to the speed training side, to the design, the performance. So fun to have some good, fun conversations there. 1:07:42 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, man, this was so good and thank you so much for taking the time. It’s really cool to see what, first of all, you guys are doing at Ping, obviously, but what you and Sasha were doing and really, you know, trying to bring us all to a better way of practicing, better skills and really kind of dialing everything in. So thanks for your time here, Marty. Yeah, you got a lot of fun to join. Jeff, thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong, and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we’d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Play355. GFY Ft. Bobby Drummond: The Road to Sobriety, Fitness, and STRONGER Golf Guest: Bobby Drummond (18STRONG Crew, 40-Day FORGER)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 355Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Get ready to be inspired by the story of Bobby Drummond, a golfer who made a remarkable transformation. His journey from struggling with addiction and weight gain to achieving physical and mental health will captivate you. Bobby’s conversion, which led him from an 8 handicap to a 1.2, is a testament to the significant role of a small swing path change, thanks to Ray Farnell, a teaching pro at Whitmore Country Club. Bobby’s triumphs, however, go beyond the golf course. Prepare to embark on a walk with Bobby as he shares how the tragic loss of a friend and a broken relationship sparked a profound change in him, leading him down a path of sobriety. His transformative journey through the 40-Day FORGE and 75 Hard Program, shedding a whopping 70 pounds in 99 days, has redefined his life both on and off the green. Hear how he discovered the power of a good routine, laser focus, visualization, and a supportive community to succeed in golf and life. And guess what? Bobby’s transformation isn’t just a physical one. He opens up about how sobriety and a fresh mental approach have turned his golf game around. His favorite golf topics and his dream foursome are bound to pique your interest. So join us, as we journey alongside Bobby through his highs and lows, demonstrating that change is indeed possible when determination meets a supportive community. You don’t want to miss out on Bobby’s story, a testament to the power of personal growth and the impact of a healthy lifestyle on golf performance. Main Topics (00:03) Bobby Drummond’s 40-Day Transformation Bobby Drummond shares his experiences with the 40 Day Forge and 75 Hard Program, discussing similarities and differences, and how it improved his golf and life. (03:33) Golf Game and Personal Transformation Bobby’s golf game has improved from 8 to 1.2, aided by Ray Farnell and sobriety, plus childhood experiences and competitive high school play. (09:42) From Partying to Sobriety Bobby Drummond’s journey of sobriety, spurred by his ex-girlfriend and a friend’s death, includes walking, sobriety podcasts, and a wellness coach. (15:38) Journey to Self-Improvement and Lifestyle Changes Bobby shares his experience of walking miles, changing his diet, and taking on the 75 Hard Challenge, aided by an 80-90% clean diet. (19:44) Weight Loss Journey and Lifestyle Changes Bobby overcame drinking habits, lost 70 pounds in 99 days, and found comfort in not drinking with help from an accountability partner. (29:39) Discussion on Fitness and Partnerships Bobby shares his transition from 75 Hard to Forge 2, focusing on impactful 40 minutes, Sunday smash sessions, commitment to a healthy lifestyle, and joining EFA Empire. (36:06) Improving Golf Performance and Personal Growth Bobby shares his transformation journey, discussing physical exercise, recovery, resistance training, weight training, cold showers, and healthier eating. (48:20) Impact of Mentality on Golf Game Bobby shares his experience of mental breakdowns, the importance of routine, laser focus, visualization, 80-second moments, and recognizing the next shot. (56:50) Favorite Golf Memories and Recommendations Bobby shares his transition from 75 Hard Challenge to Forge 2, his appreciation for Dave Matthews, his favorite book, his bucket list course, and how physical exercise and recovery have impacted his golf game. (01:07:19) Finding Community and Belonging Bobby Drummond shares his journey of finding belonging through community, Forge 2 program, and golf topics such as his walk-up song and dream foursome. Follow Bobby Drummond Instagram: @bobby_drummond Links Mentioned: 40-Day FORGE 75HARD Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 355 GFY with Bobby Drummond. Hey guys, welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everyone deserves to play better, longer. This episode is a groundbreaking one. This is our first ever GFY Go Forge Yourself episode with my good friend, bobby Drummond. The Go Forge Yourself episodes are basically going to be us talking to people in the 18STRONG community that have been through the 40-Day forge, our plan and program that is geared towards helping you improve and get stronger physically, mentally, both on the golf course and off the golf course, and so in this episode, we’re sitting down with Bobby, who has an amazing story that started several years ago His transformation from weight loss to stopping drinking to playing better golf. Everything that he’s done over the last several years has been incredible, and you’re going to hear more about that in this episode. Bobby’s one of my good friends, but he’s also one of the better golfers that I play with on a regular basis, and so you’re going to get an insight into what the experience was like, not just of the 40-Day forge, but Bobby also did the 75 hard program the similarities and the differences in mindset that occurred throughout both of those challenges and through both of those programs, and hopefully you’re going to get a glimpse into what the 40-Day forge has done, not just to for Bobby, but for other individuals in the 18STRONG community. So we’re going to be doing a lot more of these episodes over the course of the next year and hopefully we’re going to continue to build out how many people are going through the forge and making huge differences and changes in their lives, not just on the golf course, but really in every aspect of their life. I think it’s really easy to have the experts and the professional golfers on our podcast and listen to their stories, but feel like that’s a little out of touch for all of us normal people living regular lives, raising families, going to work every single day. So I think that these episodes are really going to be very cool to see that transformation and hopefully help you realize that you’re strong enough to do whatever it is you’re looking to do, whatever goal you are choosing to set. That this is hopefully just some sort of inspiration to help you make that decision and make that commitment, and we’ll get into that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, bobby Drummond. Hello, what’s? 0:03:20 – Bobby Drummondup man. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. Thanks, man. 0:03:23 – Jeff PelizzaroSo this is cool. This is going to be our very first ever GFY episode Go forward yourself episode talking about the 40-Day forge. So we’ll get into all of that. But first of all we’re just kind of bantering about your golf game. Sound like you had a pretty good round. How’s the game right? 0:03:38 – Bobby Drummondnow. So it’s funny it went. It’s gone in waves this entire season, from like a winter of simulator golf, which was just hammering as hard as you could into the screen and see how far you could hit us, to getting out on the course Remembering what it was like to hit off the grass, shooting like two rounds in the 90s, to getting the game better, mental game better. Shot two rounds under par this year, couple even round, even rounds out there as well and, yeah, it’s good. Right now it goes in waves, as the golf game does. 0:04:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAbsolutely so. For those of you listening watching Bobby and I, we get a chance to play some golf together. Bobby was part of our mandatory golf Friday and is definitely one of the higher caliber golfers in that crew, I’d say. So, over the last couple of years. What’s the what’s kind of the handicap been like? I mean, have you? So? What is your handicap? These, days. 0:04:32 – Bobby DrummondSo I know exactly. It’s a 1.2 right now. All right, 1.2. 0:04:37 – Jeff PelizzaroSo over the last few years have you been like, steadily declining. What’s the game in? 0:04:41 – Bobby Drummondlike a last couple of years. Yeah, so I. I was about in 2020 and this may be something else you want to talk about but whenever I stopped drinking back in 2020. 0:04:49 – Jeff PelizzaroOh, we’re talking about that for sure. 0:04:51 – Bobby DrummondI figured we might. But in 2020 is when I really thought, okay, now that I have a clear mind, I can probably start focusing on some other stuff that I really do love like, like golf, and I was probably about an eight handicap or so, okay, and it got it down joined Whitmore country club whenever the Piedadema kick because there was nothing else to do. So I decided to spend my money on that new clubs, I got fitted for clubs and stuff like that and I just started working on my game. I got one lesson with one of the teaching pros at Whitmore Shout out to Ray Farnell, who’s awesome and changed like one tiny thing and that changed my game, like at that point. But then over the last couple of years it’s really been my swing probably hasn’t changed at all, but I focused on getting stronger in the mental games. It’s been the biggest thing and honestly, this year, nothing except for the mental game, really kind of a couple of tiny, tiny things here and there, like, honestly, the tiniest little change in grip, like where’s my, where’s my left thumb at, how strong is my grip, how weak is my grip, and that’s been the biggest, biggest change. And then just my attitude on the course. 0:06:00 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat did so? I’m sure people want to know what. What did you and Ray? What was the one little thing that you and Ray worked on? 0:06:06 – Bobby DrummondSure, so, as Ray would say, it was my swing path, cause he’s got, I can’t do a good accent for for Ray and his Australian ways. But that was it. I was taking the club a little bit too far inside in what felt like me taking the club straight back, felt like I was taking it super far out. That was the main change that we made and other than that, just feeling like athletic over the ball. I played all sorts of sports growing up big ones, theme, basketball, baseball, and then most I still play a lot of volleyball. So just want to feel athletic whenever I’m doing anything, not feeling robotic or mechanical and outside of the swing path and just a couple like little cues here and there. Those have been my the biggest things that I’ve changed. 0:06:54 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you? Did you grow up playing golf? What was your like? 0:06:58 – Bobby Drummondchildhood golf experience like Sure. I was playing golf at like 10 years old and my grandma actually was the one who I played a lot of golf with. And not to discredit my dad, cause I played a ton of golf with my dad too. I was actually a member at hidden valley, whenever hidden valley. 0:07:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, did you ever also ski slopes here Also? 0:07:16 – Bobby Drummondnow only ski slopes, no more golf there, but that was the helliest course ever. I did a lot of my playing out there. Ian didn’t Florida Whenever I say that like I live there, but every time we went on vacation there I would play with my grandma and grow up watching Tiger Woods. So I think everyone who’s around my age I got into golf probably because of Tiger. They weren’t getting into it because of Phil, let’s be honest, right, even though Phil was great there for a while. But that’s how I got into it, started playing a bunch and grandma always said like she wouldn’t play with me if I threw my clubs, cause I’ve always ran a little bit on the higher side, which a lot of people have seen, just cause I’m competitive and I protect my own. But yeah, so that’s kind of how I got my start into. It was playing golf in early age with my grandma. I just trying to. I mean, I played so much out of hidden valley I almost never practiced. I feel like playing is my practice. 0:08:15 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, did you play competitively or just for fun? 0:08:19 – Bobby Drummondwhen you’re a kid. Two, so two years in high school freshman year, sophomore year, at CBC I played golf on those teams. Junior year I literally had the shanks and I could not hit a ball to save my life. You still didn’t try out. So I decided not to try out that year and that’s actually when I found volleyball Okay, and that’s the only reason why I got into volleyball, cause I had the shanks. And I still played a junior and senior year, but just for more for sport than anything else. And into college I played with my buddies, but it was more drinking and party and then, yeah, so it was cool, but for the most part it was just for the, for the fun, right. 0:08:59 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, so speaking of the drinking, the partying, so one of the reasons I wanted to have you on and really excited for you to be the first episode here is because I know I know a lot of your backstory. I don’t know all of it, so he will dig into as much as you want to share it, sure, and you know the forge and just your whole transformation, so give me a little glimpse into. Obviously this can be an episode kind of about your transformation, so kind of tell as much of the back story as you want to, yeah, and then maybe what was the catalyst of really making you kind of flip the switch and, and you know, make some of these huge, huge changes, right? 0:09:35 – Bobby DrummondSo there’s I could. There are so many short versions, a long versions of this, so I’ll try to keep it kind of medium In between. But I mean, I came from like just one school, Mizzou, and was like a party. You was always just something like it seemed like you did whenever you went to, especially at school, like Mizzou, it’s just, it’s a fun time. And after I graduated I just kind of continued to do the party and having the fun. And I graduated I lived in Seward, which is like its own little island of a, of a tramp Honestly Right If you don’t have discipline like me up until recently but then lived downtown and just always around all the action, always around all of the fun. So I wanted to just continue to just throw myself into those fun situations and I prioritize a lot of that over what should have been a lot more important to me. So I was a little bit of blinded by that. I actually come from a family of somatics and so I didn’t really think about any of that. I thought I was okay, because I had a good job and I did throughout that entire process, but it just got to a point where it was really bad. I didn’t really see it. I was almost too close to see it where it was. I mean drinking at lunches and I’ll be completely transparent like drinking and driving on the way home from work each day. And I got to a point where it was I mean, it wasn’t just a drinking, there were some drugs and stuff like that too. But I didn’t even see myself go from someone who was in shape and I worked really hard against my metabolism and got up to about 260-270 somewhere around there and I didn’t even really notice it. But I always said, hey, I want to do this, I want to make this change. But the compound effect of just doing the same thing day in and day out drinking and smoking, pot, stuff like that, eating like shit all just led to a point where I was really unhappy with myself, and in which case I also found myself in a pretty like unhappy relationship. No ill will or anything like that as far as that goes, but I just was too close to see that I needed to make some changes and then I’d all came to a head when me and my ex we decided we were going to break up. We still were living together and we were trying to figure out how to transition out of that. The two nights later, on a Monday night, actually got just loaded and drove home. Should not have. Ironically, the last place that I ever had a drink was Bobby’s place in Valley Park, and I don’t remember driving home, was in and out, was going. I just remember seeing the flash of me going over 100 miles per hour on the way home. So not cool, right? Obviously something that should not do. I could have hurt myself, I could have heard someone else, I could have ended up in jail and next morning ex kicked me out and said, hey, you got to leave. I left and that day I knew that I needed to stop drinking for good. I had been told that multiple times by some people before, but it wasn’t until that, just like with any addict, it doesn’t matter what someone says to you, you have to want it, and in that moment I knew that I had to make that change. So that was on a Tuesday morning, june 23rd, when I got kicked out of there in 2020. That afternoon, my co-worker’s son, I found out, was pronounced brain dead Over the weekend. I did not know this, but her son was hit by a drunk driver and on Tuesday afternoon she had to pull the plug on her son and then fast forward to Thursday. Thursday night, one of my best friends, cory, actually was killed in a drunk driving accident. So from I knew I needed to stop to seeing someone affected by it, and I knew I needed to make a change then to what happened with my buddy Cory. I knew that I was making the right decision to stop and I don’t know if those things wouldn’t have happened if I still would have stayed strong and not drank, but that’s when I knew I had to stop and that’s when I started my process of. That’s when I started also my wellness journey, really, and Kelly Baker or Kelly Bugger now she actually so I trained with her there for a while and I’m going through a lot of this, but I saw coast that she put up about walking like 10,000 steps a day and this was a couple days after everything had happened with my buddy and I was just like I need to start walking and I so much of the weight that I gained was all information and just stuff that I just needed to just go walk, totally right. So I started doing that every single day, sort of listening to a sobriety podcast called sobercast and there’s just literally recorded AA meetings. I never did any sort of formal like AA or anything like that, because it was COVID, there was no readings to attend, except for virtual ones, and I was not that I couldn’t do the virtual, but it just wasn’t as intimate and I didn’t feel like it would make a big impact on me. So I would listen to this podcast that was just recorded AA meetings from anywhere from like the 50s to today and I would find myself listening to these, going on these long walks, like literally in tears, like hearing other people tell these stories, where I felt that exact same way and I engrossed myself into not only walking and doing that, but then that’s when I started my first round of 75 hard back in 2020. 0:15:38 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, a lot of stuff happened in order for me to get there so that that first week you know and I didn’t know the story about the those two, your from your buddy, corey, and your co-worker son. I mean, man, how crazy. So you? You start this journey, you’re you’re starting, you’re walking, you’re starting to listen to these things. What are you telling yourself at this time, when you’re, you know, when you’re on these walks, when you’re not listening to these podcasts, you know what are some of the things go at your head? And then I want you to even go into the 75 part, because that’s that’s for the people that have listened to the episode about the forge 75 hard had a big impact on us creating the force, the way that it is created and and you know it was obviously a big catalyst for you and and how you kind of continue to go forward, yeah, so, uh, as far as I like thoughts going through my head and stuff like that, I don’t know, I just I couldn’t sleep. 0:16:36 – Bobby DrummondSo I and it wasn’t so much like I didn’t have any weird like withdrawals, where a lot of times when people come out of like if they’re drinking a lot of stuff like that, a lot of times they have some issues and actually need to. They need medicine. Fortunately and unfortunately, it was mostly beer that I drank, so it wasn’t like I was drinking a fifth of vodka day, but, trust me, I drank more than enough beers for everyone in this gym right now. It for a week’s time probably. But a lot of what was going through my head was just, I couldn’t sleep. I’d wake up at 330 in the morning. I would go on these long walks anywhere from two miles to 10 miles just would walk until I just felt like I didn’t want to walk anymore, cause it was the middle of the pandemic, I had no work to come back to, and whenever I, whenever I left, whenever I left my ex’s place, I stayed with my parents, so I didn’t really want to go back home. There’s shame in that, obviously. But there’s not at the end of the day, like I treasure that time that I had with them. But it’s not like a good feeling as a 30 year old to go back and feel like you’re stuck, especially for someone who was doing doing great in their job. But I but obviously had some other issues. And then from like how I I guess I started walking cause I saw Kelly’s post and really wanted to get into just taking better care of myself. I knew I had some weight to lose and that’s when I already knew about 75 hard because I would. I would tell my ex I said, hey, I think I want to do this challenge and she would say, yeah, there’s no way that you can do that. You’ll never be able to stop drinking. So kind of like that that Andy for sell out crabs in the bucket theory like, oh no, you don’t need to do that Cause you’re. You’ll never stop. And that’s not her fault, that’s me. But one of the things that I decided was okay, I can do this now I’m sober, I’ve that’s the hardest thing that was on that list before was the no alcohol for 75 days, and now I’m planning on making this a lifestyle change forever. So the next hardest thing on there was follow a diet plan. I’m like I don’t know what the hell that means. Follow a diet plan? I’m like, was that me? No carbs Like what am I? Just a rabbit for 75 days? So I I hired Kelly as by like a nutrition coach and went through a whole assessment and actually I don’t even know where those pictures. I had to get those pictures, but at that point I was already 35 pounds down. Just from walking, I lost a pound a day and not drinking, and that’s right. Yes, that’s a big part of it. I was still eating like Jimmy Johns and stuff, though I tell you I hadn’t had the diet arc figured out yet, but went to her, got that assessment, figured out what that looked like to follow a diet plan and make some good like lifestyle changes. And I even read your, your, what are you? What do you call those? like a daily newsletter your emails that you sent out this morning talking about like an 80 to 90% clean diet. That was today’s buzzer. 0:19:37 – Jeff PelizzaroWas that yesterday Okay? 0:19:39 – Bobby DrummondYep, I read that this morning and I’ve been. That’s been a really big guideline for me since. But with 75 card, the all the water following the diet plan, the the two workouts a day, those were walks. I, I couldn’t do anything else. I was too fat to run, so I walked and I never. That was the first time when I really understood, like that you have to walk before you run. And I’m like, oh, this makes sense, cause I literally can, literally had to walk. Yeah, and over the course of I actually did 75 hard for 99 days and the reason I did is because we started a separate bet with a group of buddies and I so did 75 hard for 99 days and in those 99 days I lost 70 pounds. Wow, but yeah, that was my journey, man Just reading, and I had not picked up a book since Harry Potter in high school and I know I mean that’s a such a. There’s so much knowledge out there with different books, podcasts and all that. So jumping into some different books that are helping better me, along with the exercise, along with eating better and just building a routine, I mean Andy Forsella changed my life forever. Yeah, and me and him don’t always agree, I don’t know a lot of the things that he talks about, but as he can be a polarizing guy, but like I don’t like fully credit him, cause at the end of the day I did it. But if it wasn’t for that program, I don’t know if I would have found everything that I found in my journey so far. 0:21:10 – Jeff PelizzaroHow, how difficult did you find it through those 99 days probably more so even at the very beginning not drinking and even the struggle of figuring out and I know you had Kelly to help guide you, which I think is a huge, is a huge thing to have somebody that, if you don’t know where you are, what, where to start or what to do, like, find somebody that knows, find somebody that can help you Right, how difficult was it for you to make those adjustments? Let’s maybe first go with the alcohol piece. Sure, because it’s, it’s great to say like, okay, I’m going to stop drinking. And then you know you go a month and then you go two months and like, is that something that kind of kept coming back to you? Or is it something where you know you were like nope done and I’m done for good? 0:21:55 – Bobby DrummondSo big believer in people made changes either out of inspiration or desperation and I was desperate. I think if I was just inspired to make a change, I can’t say that it would have stuck. But I know what I like. I saw what I did, the compound effect of it, and I was able to like be self-aware in that moment to say, look at what you did, look at where your body looks, look at how you feel, look at the way you’ve been acting. And then I was able to look at as far as just I guess, from the alcohol standpoint, I knew what it had done to other people just recently, so I think it was one of those. It just like a switch flipped and I was just like, okay, I’m done. It also helped that it was the middle of the pandemic where there wasn’t that pressure to like go to the happy hours and stuff like that, cause I didn’t live on the St Charles side where COVID didn’t happen. I lived on the side of Lake of the Ozarks, where it did happen and everything was closed down so there were no opportunities to go do stuff like that, which I think helped as well. But as far as like, just for anyone who’s especially. I have so many friends since then cause I shared my story very publicly out there on Facebook for people to follow throughout the process and I had a lot of people reach out to me saying that they were interested in stopping asking me about my story and I’d found a comfortability with, like I could go to the most crowded crazy bar right now and I’d have no problem just going up and ordering a clip soda with a lime and hanging out. They had a fun. That’s probably not gonna be my first choice of what I do, but I would be okay. But for a lot of people out there who are wondering, hey, how am I going to do this? I think I mean first thing you gotta do is find like an accountability partner on that. You know almost declare, hey, I’m gonna do this, even if it’s for 30 days or for a week or if someone wants to make a lifestyle change. It can be hard, but I never thought I would stop drinking. It’s wild to me that I’m three and a half years sober wild but yeah, that’s amazing. 0:23:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then, what about the food set? Because you know, the food, the food piece, and these are two pieces that are in the Forge IIs, right, this is talking to anybody that hasn’t been through any kind of a program where you have to stick to this for a long period of time, whether that’s drinking, the diet piece but the food thing is one of those where you know it’s not gonna cause harm to other people. It’s, you know, like. So there’s a different mentality there, right, sometimes and I think I speak for most people listening, I know I speak for myself sometimes you’re just like that’s it, man, I want that piece of cake or those chips or whatever. And so I would imagine it would be fairly easy to rationalize that, hey, I gave up drinking, I can have this. Yeah, did you go through a lot of that, dude? 0:24:47 – Bobby Drummondyes, I literally ate like half of a bed in Jerry’s pipe last night. That’s. My biggest problem is the sweets. So it’s really easy to then revert from something like alcohol to like, honestly, to any sort of sweet, because it still gives you a little bit of that like little domain or whatever it is. Yeah, for sure it’s exciting. Who doesn’t live chomping into half-baked bed in Jerry’s? I know I do. But so on the diet piece I really like, once I understood what like following a diet plan looks like and what to look for whenever I was shopping. And Kelly was an awesome accountability buddy for me where when I was grocery shopping, I would send her pictures of like the nutritional facts on there and just be like, is this okay? And she’ll be like, yeah for sure. And I was like, okay, good, but she gave me a really good outline of some things that would be good and some ways to kind of curb some of those cravings that I had. And then finding some substitutes for someone who does love sweets to substitute for like higher percentage dark chocolate or instead drink like a drink, a protein smoothie or a fruit smoothie, and find some joy in some of those like other foods that are still really good and taste great. They’re just never going to be banjiris. So that was. That was probably the biggest thing for me was just understanding what that looks like, because I think a lot of people’s heads go straight to a diet is going to be something miserable, where you’re gonna be starving all the time, where the way that she set it up for me with the goals that I had was like it was. I still had breakfast, lunch and dinner and I had like little snacks that I could have in between, whether those were almonds or a piece of fruit or something like that, to kind of curb some of those cravings throughout the day without feeling like you had to just completely stop eating. 0:26:37 – Jeff PelizzaroRight when you could kind of actually like live a lifestyle around the food, not some depravity kind of diet where you’re cutting everything out like no cooking, no carbs, eating lettuce. 0:26:48 – Bobby DrummondRight, yeah, didn’t have to do anything like that. I still got to enjoy a lot of really good foods. 0:26:53 – Jeff PelizzaroSo then, when was it that you did the forge? Because I know that and really, really that’s how we kind of connect, I mean separately you work with Kelly, I work with Kelly. But we didn’t really know each other, we didn’t really interact. At that point we kind of had set it a little or whatever. But it wasn’t until, I believe, that you reached out or we connected and you said hey, I’m thinking about doing the forge. 0:27:18 – Bobby DrummondYeah, so that would have been, I guess, december of 2022. Right right before the Ford start in January, and I was so in the mid. I was actually in the middle of doing the whole bit part program, all the different phases of 75 hard and I just was thinking, okay, I want something else. I knew this year I wanted to, like, I wanted to have a lot of focus on golf and even though I’m not playing to make any money except for some side bets, I just I’m Uber competitive and I want to be as good as I possibly can be. So I figured, with a good routine around, a group like community of some golfers would be a cool group of people to hang around with. Plus, like golf is one of those, even though, where you think you can play it, as you get older and older, I still see people that can’t go play golf, can’t swing a golf club, and even though I was in good shape, I thought my thought process was I want some another challenge. I’m very motivated by having like a finish line out there. I was, I think a lot of other people are too but then also just wanted to be in feel as part of a community with something which was definitely captured with what you have going on with the forge. 0:28:35 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually letting them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. You can go to their website, 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stPhorm.com that’s P-H-O-R-M.com forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products. It’s including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. A lot of people going into the Forge would balk at the drinking and the diet stuff, or those are kind of conceptually the biggest, hardest pieces for a lot of them. You had already tackled those to some degree. Obviously. The drinking, for you know, completely Right. The diet, you know we can all go in waves with that. What were some of the biggest and different challenges for you with the Forge as opposed to the last year and a half of what you already got, sure, so there’s some similarities in there, but also some big differences. 0:31:08 – Bobby DrummondThat a lot of times with the water, I wasn’t always good with drinking that right when I woke up. So 24 ounces, right, Is it 24 ounces? Right off the bat I had found myself drinking like 34 just because I had a bottle that was that big. So I found myself chugging that first thing in the morning. And the EFDs I’m assuming I can cuss on this. 0:31:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYes. 0:31:28 – Bobby DrummondSee, every fucking days. I literally did those this morning. I still do those all the time. That was just another routine to get into the swing of things. But the one thing with 75 hard versus the Forge two is you have just your one IPA right, your intentional physical activity. So where the two workouts was 75 hard, Sometimes I felt like, okay, I can just do recovery day, I can go, I can go walk twice, and there’s times where a walk like makes sense for recovery, especially if you went hard the day before. But I think it really allowed me to want to do something that was going to be more impactful, a more impactful 40 minutes of my day, rather than just going for a 40 minute walk where I could. I mean we did our Sunday smash sessions here and then, other than that, did some other, some other good lifts and and whatnot to some other workouts. But those were, those were a couple of the biggest things there. And then I mean having anything revolving around golf with the right handed and the left handed swings love doing those. So it was one of those things where I wouldn’t say it’d be. I’d feel like kind of a jerk if I said it was easy for me, but to an extent I had done so much of that already and I was coming off of like the last phase of I think I was coming off of phase one, so it just became a good part of a routine. Especially at the beginning of the year. It’s really easy to just say I mean, that’s when a lot of people want to make their changes but they’re not making them for 40-Days. Right, they might be doing it for a couple of weeks. And diets not always the cleanest. So I think I still think that no drinking and the diet’s got to be the hardest thing for anybody, anybody coming into this where, like you said, the drinking is easy. For me the diet’s not easy. I just told you I had to have a pint of Ben and Jerry’s last night what? I have for dinner. Now, I can’t remember what I had for dinner last night. I was focused on the Ben and Jerry’s. But oh, we had tacos. Yeah, and those were delicious. And yeah, not a taco bowl, it was straight up. We had the, we had the flour tortillas and all, but yeah and that comes and goes in waves, and that’s a. I think that’s a big thing that I learned this year, where I just recently like I just joined EFA Empire here what it was like three weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago and up until that, this entire summer has been me, from the time I finished phase three of the live hard program that was June 5th, to just a couple of weeks ago, dude I all I did was play golf, that was it so I guess in cardio and stuff like that. But I was into volleyball a little bit here and there, but I wasn’t lifting and I realized how big of an impact that made on my body. So I just everything with life in general comes in seasons, right, like you’re going to have, you’re going to have a moment, you’re going to have down moments. You just got to try and find that balance. If you ever feel like you’re out of sorts, go back to what you need and that’s where the forge is so perfect for that. Or getting committed to something for a set amount of time and see it all the way through. 0:34:33 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat really brings out to me is it seems like every time you’ve finished something 75 hard or one of the levels, you’ve kind of thrown yourself right back into something. Yeah, I’m assuming that’s by design. Have you has there been a stretch of time where you weren’t doing some sort of program, like the forge or one of the levels of 75 hard or something where you’re in the mix of moving towards a specific time? 0:35:02 – Bobby DrummondYeah, it was just this past summer here, right, it was from June to just a couple of weeks ago, and I let myself go. I mean, I got the pictures of. I started taking pictures again every single day to see what I look like. And, oh, you know, what I didn’t even talk about was the cold showers I’ll get. We can talk about that one for sure. But I love those now, but either way, so that’s that was it like really up until this past June, when I got done with the live hard program, I was like, okay, I can, I’ve heard it, like I’m just gonna do whatever I want for a little while. And, dude, I let myself go a little bit and I talked to Shelby, my fiance, about it too, and she knows how like important it is for me to like continue to move my body and stay in and stay in shape, and that’s why joining here again has completely changed my mindset, where it’s literally on my calendar getting back into our routine and making sure that I’m doing this stuff that helps me not only feel better physically, but lifting weights and stuff like that, it helps me mentally as well. 0:36:06 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat? What differences did you notice just specifically in your golf game? Maybe the both, the way your body feels and everything too. But over the course of this summer, when you weren’t doing this stuff, you weren’t, you weren’t getting in the gym, you weren’t doing probably the EFDs quite as much, you weren’t doing a lot of the physical stuff aside from going and playing golf and going to a lot of cool places. What did that? What did you notice? 0:36:30 – Bobby DrummondSo I felt like I did not recover quickly. So whenever I would go play, even though I’m relatively young, my lower back and my shoulder they were brutal. My right shoulder still does hurt a little bit. I know we were talking about that a little bit, but I’ve been doing a lot of different exercises for that now, with some resistance, band training and some some weight training as well. But going off of something like that and trying to still go do the physical stuff, you’re leaving yourself more susceptible to get injured. Your recovery is not going to be as good Like whenever you go, especially as guys, whenever we go. Lift weights or take cold showers, eat healthier and naturally boosts strength, boosting testosterone levels, without having to feel like you need to start doing steroids. Right, definitely like do the natural things that are going to help you get there and getting getting back into this, as I mean it’s always a huge help. So I mean shoot anyone who’s stuck and not feeling their best there and it’s likely because they’re just not moving their body enough. It’s. They don’t need to take a pill, they don’t need to take more ad bill. They I mean maybe some ad fillary now and then, but probably just need to get back to lifting some weights and doing the stuff that makes you feel good. 0:37:44 – Jeff PelizzaroTell me about the cold showers Okay. 0:37:47 – Bobby DrummondLove cold showers. Now Literally took one this morning, so that was part of. Obviously that’s part of the forge I started those originally. Whenever part of phase one is a five minute cold shower, okay. 0:38:02 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s five minutes, yes, and during the winter it’s totally different. Cold during the summer and St Louis in the wintertime is very different. 0:38:12 – Bobby DrummondSo taking those cold showers at first it was one of those things that, like, I dreaded and it was the thing that I was least excited about, but I would do it first thing in the morning, but now it’s become part of my. Every time I take a shower I’ll have, I’ll use hot water for all my normal stuff and then I’ll finish with at least two minutes of a cold shower. Now, but especially whenever you’re doing the forge, if you’re starting on January 2nd and the cold weather here in St Louis, those pipes are cold. And if you’re, if you’re truly doing a cold shower and you crank that to the lowest setting that it can be on without that shower being off, it’s pretty cold shower. 0:38:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I found that you know so many people are doing the cold plunges these days, which is, from a physiological standpoint and from what I understand, is more beneficial, sex wise. But there’s something about the cold shower because it’s constantly moving water, hitting some parts of your body and you got to turn around. It’s like every move you make is almost like I don’t really want to do this, but it was so for me, like just the mentality and the confidence of like doing that and overcoming those little challenges. I forget what Andrew Huberman called it. I think he calls it like getting over the wall, like there’s something to be said for the physiological response of the cold shower, but there’s also something about the different walls that you, that you hurdle over, that you don’t want to climb over during that piece, and that’s that’s the thing that I really, really notice with cold showers. I want to talk about your, just your mentality, speaking of confidence and everything. Now, looking back three and a half years ago, where you were, where you are now, I mean, what does it feel like to know that you’ve accomplished what you’ve accomplished? Like when you look at a picture of yourself back then and you think the things you were doing, how you looked, how you felt, like what did? First of all, do you appreciate how much you’ve you’ve changed and how much you’ve done, and just speak to that a little bit for sure? 0:40:16 – Bobby DrummondSo the first thing that I think of it is I’m barely scratching the surface and I’m never satisfied, which is bad, because I have gotten a lot better with practicing gratitude and being appreciative. So I mean, there’s even more that we haven’t talked about. With the forge, with the meditation, visualization, visualization, stuff like that. I’ve been really big on that. So every once in a while, I’ll find myself just like scrolling back through my Instagram to see these pictures of me like holding these cases of beer, like I literally have. I still have a video of me on Instagram chugging a bottle of fireball, and I’m not. I won’t take it down, we’ll have to pull it up, but I think I do appreciate how far I’ve come. I mean, it’s the reason I was able to meet Shelby and my now my now fiance and I. We would have never been able to work, I would have never been fit for a relationship if it wasn’t for me being where I’m at now. So I am very appreciative of that. It’s also allowed me to build my relationship back with my family, which it’s not that I didn’t have one, but I didn’t prioritize seeing them where I like I should. I called my dad in the middle of the day today just just to catch up with him and see how he’s doing, which I never would have done. So I have I have a lot of my priority. I believe I have a lot of my priorities pretty straight and it’s allowed me to build back those relationships with family and with friends, make new friends. I was best. One of the things I was worried about with not drinking was am I going to be fun anymore? And it turns out I’m still a huge weirdo and I still I can still excel in some social situations where I didn’t know if I was going to be able to. So, yeah, I guess from a I can look back and recognize how far I’ve come, I mean whether it’s golf game or just what I’ve been able to accomplish just from a. From a personal standpoint, I do feel great about that. But, like I said, things come and go in seasons and the one thing that I know is a constant is my my no drinking. So the book, the one thing have you read that? So the one thing such that by doing it, will make everything else easier or unnecessary for me. My one thing not drinking, different for everyone, but that is something that I will hold true to for forever. And I’ve had people ask me hey, do you think you’d ever like have a glass of wine or something like that? I’m like I don’t know if I want to find out what that looks like, but all I know is like I’m enjoying myself more than I ever have. I would hate I used to used to hate being by myself because I was kind of alone with my thoughts, and now I really do treasure that time where, even though I am extroverted and in these moments people probably be like, oh my gosh, that guy’s got to be the life of the party, he’s got to have so much fun. I love the time to myself, like wind down at the end of the night, just put my phone on, do not disturb, talk to no one, and I’m very comfortable now with with myself. 0:43:13 – Jeff PelizzaroIs that something that was, there was a challenge for you? 0:43:16 – Bobby DrummondYeah, for sure. I just I always just sought out like the next thing, rather than just being present, be where my feet are. And I think that was a big part of the problem too, was there were some insecurities there. That why I drank a lot and did a lot of things that I did was because I just wasn’t comfortable with who I was. 0:43:37 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat, if any, goals do you have, kind of even just moving through, let’s say, the wintertime, the all season or just kind of in general, with with the whole trajectory that you had? You know, you said you’re you’re barely scratching the surface which I just read, a book by Dr Benjamin Hardy. Okay, actually, having read this book, yet I read the other book that he was talking about on the podcast. He was on Ed, my lead show, he was on our buddy Sean Stevenson show recently, and the book is called the gap in the game. Okay, have you, have you heard of this? I feel like I have heard of it. So it’s just fascinating to me because it reframe the way that I ever really thought about, you know, setting goals, looking goals, how we kind of grade ourselves on our goals, and it talks about the most of us look at the gap from between where we are to the ideal person that we want to be. So, like at the beginning of the of the forge, we tell people like you know, where do you want to be at the end of your 40-Days? Right, what does that look like? Who’s the person that you want to become, the whole identity thing? Well, the problem with being in the gap is that you’re always looking from the standpoint of where you are. And so, even on the 40th day and I want to ask you about, you know, your 70 or your 99th day and your 40th day, when you get there and I do this myself typically we will say, okay, cool, I’m here, but I want to be there and instead of like celebrating, like the game is what it is, you know, looking back and saying, holy shit, look where I was, look where I was three and a half years ago. But I want to be there and like not not taking that time to just be like shit, man, I did some cool ass stuff, yeah that’s a tough thing because there’s there’s student from West people can go with that. 0:45:22 – Bobby Drummondthey either are, they’re never satisfied right, or it’s the add. My lead back to add the thermostat theory of okay, I got here, I got the, I got the thermostat set up to 80 degrees, I got this thing cooking right now, but like 72 is where I’m comfortable, right. So I feel like I’ve gone the other direction where I like if there’s a challenge in place it’s like one, I guess, when you’re typing then I’m good. But once something ends and once I have something set up to start, I feel like I am one who tends to fall back into some of the bad habits. So for me, I wish I had that problem, except Shelby might not want me to have that as much because she’s like hey, like you don’t need to be working out like eight hours a day but and it’s obviously not that much, but it can feel like that whenever I’m here, gone for two like two hour workouts a day. But no, I think you had. I mean, that’s a. That’s not something that I really thought about. Where my next journey is going to be, I think for me biggest thing is developing the better habits, getting back into the gym here consistently, like your your email set today like 80 to 90%, like if you’re at 80 to 90% of your diet on a weekly basis and you’re doing the lifting, you’re moving your body, you’re doing the stretching and taking care of yourself, I think that I mean I’ll get where I want to go If I build that consistency where my problem before was I work out hard for two months and then, or three months even, and the next thing I know it was like, okay, I gave myself like a three week break and I lost so much of what I worked so hard to get back to. So biggest goal for me is just developing that consistency and with a goal of like where I want to go being I want to be stronger, how obviously well it doesn’t hurt to look at me or and be like sup, you look good today. Especially looks great after a cold shower too. And then and then I mean golf game like a shoot man. I had two rounds under par this year, two rounds, one over two rounds at even par, and my goal next year is to shoot 10 plus rounds under par, and I know that I can do that from a mental standpoint. There’s a lot that goes into that, not only on the course but off the course, but from there it’s. It’s what am I doing to make sure that I can play a full 18 holes and my body can be there through all of it in my mental game, can be there through it all too? Plus, I also get a wedding to look awesome, for yeah, that’s right. Not that my shirt will be coming off at the wedding as far as we know, but yeah, yeah, don’t drink that, don’t drink that wine. No, I think it’ll be good on that, and I don’t need any grape juice to make it feel like I’m cooler. 0:48:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYou like that, but yeah so what would you say was the effect on your? You know you talked about how, how shooting under par is going to be a ticket to your goal of 10 rounds, or whatever that is, for next year. That that’s a big mental mental game, part right. So how do you feel like your journey has really impacted mentally the way that you approached the game golf? I was there one day when you were about to shoot your lowest round ever and it’s all a little bit of a mental breakdown? 0:48:33 – Bobby DrummondI’m glad to wonder. With three years? 0:48:36 – Jeff Pelizzaroago, 203 to go, and I went a couple of bad decisions and even get went par bogey, double bogey, yeah. So shoot one out. I think so. Yeah, I think so. But nice, let’s wipe that one out of it. But that’s not maybe stronger. Honestly, what you know, what have you noticed when you know you’re obviously thinking clear, you’re not drinking, you’re eating better, but even just the tasks that you’ve complete, the things you’ve done, how has that impacted the way you’ve approached the game of golf, the way that you approach mentally out there, right, if it does it does. 0:49:06 – Bobby DrummondI mean, if you feel better, that always helps. I remember going out and playing, playing golf, whenever I was hungover or like not completely hydrated, didn’t have a routine before. So I think routine to me is everything, and I know one of the one of the rapid fire questions kind of goes into this, but I’ll speak to it a little bit now. But like, having a like like your free throw right, like a basketball player is going to have the same free throw, like, I guess, approach every single time they go do it If they. I remember Rip Hamilton. They want to. It was one of my favorite players and he would dribble twice in front of them, once to the side and then went up and shot us free. There’s players that throw it Like I think Yannis goes behind his back and does something weird twice, I can’t remember, but everyone has their thing now in basketball outside of a free throw. You don’t have time to do that in golf. Like if you I saw some sort of statistic on this that if you break down golf in like the moment that you’re actually hitting a ball, it comes out to like 80 seconds. Yeah, like there’s 80 seconds of moments that happen in an 18 whole round of golf. That is going to impact your entire round. So it’s all about the approach into it and the thoughts afterwards. So I think just from a from a sobriety standpoint like that makes I’m very clear, like just going into the day. Obviously I was listening to a, or actually was watching this YouTube video earlier with Shane Lowry and he’s talking about. I mean, shane Lowry looks like a guy that is just drinking pints. Yes, like left and right, like all day. He talks about how whenever he’s in a tournament he doesn’t have a single beer, has a single drink. He’s laser focused in on on that week and I think the clarity is one piece of it. But then feeling good, doing the stretches, knowing that you’re you’re getting your body warmed up in the right way, and then from there, like you still don’t know what’s going to happen in a round of golf, you can still mess up. I mean, shoot for for the 73 that I shot yesterday. Over the weekend I shot an 85, right, like it’s, there’s there’s a give and take to the game, so you can only do so much and then from there you just got to let the golf gods you know it from there. 0:51:06 – Jeff PelizzaroHas it played into how you react to those things? You said you know you can run a little hot. Yeah, that was that. 0:51:11 – Bobby Drummondget pissed Still kind of can still get pissed. But that’s a big part of it too is recognizing that then the only thing that matters is the next shot. It’s not the next hole, and a big part of what I’ve done is given myself. I’ll say it myself Like first round that I shot under par this year. I kept on giving myself permission to go low. Part of that is like the visualization of like and I can talk about that a little bit too but just like almost manifesting that that was going to happen and telling myself that I am a great golfer and I have the capability. I’m going to shoot under par this year. And I was doing that and I told my buddies you can ask a lot of my buddies I told them I’m going to shoot under par this year. Up until then, my best friend ever was too over par. Yeah, I’d never even shot even or one over at that point. And I just kept on giving myself permission to go low, permission to make birdies, permission to hit great shots and my only focus during the round of golf was is that specific shot Not? Oh gosh, I got the next one, you get birdie, get next par five it’s. I need to recover here. I need to get up and down from the sand or I just need to hit this sand shot somewhere on the grade to get me a chance and almost, like, almost playing the game of uh, like, where’s my miss? Like, no, I can’t short, I can’t short side myself over there, or else I’m leaving myself with almost an impossible shape If I’m going to miss. I got to miss right where I can play and I spun up there. Um, so there’s so much that goes into it and I’m not, like, the best golfer in the world, but, um, I I feel like I’m trending that direction. Where I have, I I’m very capable of playing some excellent rounds of golf, which will be, which can be a lot of fun. 0:52:51 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, what I think is really cool about you know, being able to bring you on in some of the future episodes we do is, you know, like you’re a guy that has a job, you’re a guy that is doing what most of the people listening to this podcast you’re trying to go from an eight down to a one right, or from a 15 to a nine or whatever. Whatever your level of golf you’re at, you’ve been able to do that and it’s it’s been through a lot of hard work, it’s been through a lot of dedication. Um, what would you say has been like the the biggest gratifying piece, golf wise, from this whole journey. Obviously, getting down to a one is cool, but yeah, you know, is there anything else other than any other piece that you would say is? 0:53:31 – Bobby Drummondit’s kind of like the quite a little crown like from, just like a like a result, same point. Like what was the moment? Yeah, and my first friend under par was the coolest thing ever. Man, I uh I was playing out of sand valley at uh mammoth dunes and the day before um me and the injured played, uh, aaron Hills. Oh yeah, and I shot a 92. Uh, we played from the tips there, which is stupid. 0:53:53 – Jeff PelizzaroHe’s 7,800 yards. 0:53:55 – Bobby DrummondLike Brooks Kepke, like the fact that he shot one like 18, 17 under at the US open there back in 17 is stupid that, um, but I saw I shoot a 92 the day before and going out to play the next morning morning on mammoth dunes and had a caddy that day. Um and uh, it was actually a caddy that we had had before because we we made two trips to sand valley this year. We made one in April and then one in July, so we can go play the Lido whenever that opened. And um, playing out of mammoth dunes I had uh shoot, I’m sure I know that I was playing great Like all throughout the entire day. I got to 300 with three holes to go and I kept on telling myself give myself permission to go low. Um, one of the things that Trent and chat up to Trent and Jensen, um, he’s actually not even on Instagram. 0:54:43 – Jeff PelizzaroSo if he, if he gets to see this. 0:54:45 – Bobby DrummondI’ll have the same to him. But he kept on saying throughout the round he’s like PMA, positive mental attitude. He’s like you get next shot, baby, be a goldfish. And um, I just took that to heart and just was so laser focused on what I was doing 300, three holes to go, um, I got to 300 by eagling uh, 15, uh out there at me with dunes, and then I went bogey, bogey and I’m in. I hit my, uh, my drive on 18 into the, the fairway bunker on the right there with super high left. I have to hit a pitching wedge out of it and I still have like two, 30 in the wind. I hit a three wood over the green, um, which there was a bunker right behind it. So I have to get up and down now to shoot under par. For my first round ever, I hit a shot to five feet and I have like a probably like a four inch slider left to right and bust in there for one under par and that was to me beating the course, was I mean, and that course beat me up that day, like there’s no doubt? But, um, I outplayed the course that day and I think under shooting under par to me was has always been such a big deal because it means that I beat the course, that I set out to go play Um, and that was probably the most satisfying moment. I mean I’ve had a few other great moments throughout the year, uh, throughout the year of playing, but that was the biggest. I mean it was I broke the seal right, it was um or it’s finally happened. Now it can happen again. Um, and then since then, um, two rounds, even par, another round, one under par, and uh, I mean shoot like a 73 yesterday, meadowbrook. I’ll take that all day, all day. So, uh, from there now, my next part of the journey is now I need to shoot a couple under par cause. Uh. The next step is 60s, right, get around in the 60s. So um, 69 or better is the next. Uh is the next target for like man with dunes was the. 0:56:38 – Jeff PelizzaroThe four minute miles broke that yes, so I allowed you to you know 10 and start breaking it down. 0:56:42 – Bobby DrummondAnd now my thought is like I need to go out and beat as many courses as I can. Yeah, so I love that All right man. 0:56:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWe’re going to finish up with our traditional questions. Sweet On the 18STRONG podcast Looks like you’re coming in hot and prepared. 0:56:53 – Bobby DrummondI have. I have a couple of them that I wanted to make sure I had written down, so I didn’t forget. 0:56:57 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. So first and foremost, Candy Shack or happy Gilmore, yeah. 0:57:01 – Bobby DrummondSo uh, it’s a toss up, but I think I got to go happy Go why it’s a classic. I just watched her recently too, so I feel like I’m a little recency bias. 0:57:09 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t seen it in a little while. I think it’s about time for me to introduce my son, sam, to to. 0:57:13 – Bobby DrummondCandy Shack, heck, yeah, well, he’ll love the cool scene. Yes, he will. That’s a good one. 0:57:18 – Jeff PelizzaroOh, bob gone, Get something from the kitchen. Yeah, there you go. Probably a good call, all right, walk-up song. What’s your walk-up song to the first? He’s so I’m a huge Dave Matthews fan, that’s right. Yes, tell him how big of a Dave Matthews fan. 0:57:31 – Bobby DrummondHi, so it well. What’s funny is there’s people who are much bigger fans than me, just based on shows they’ve seen. But I’ve seen 81 Dave Matthews shows now, so travel all over to go see him and they’re one of my favorites. And you know, it was hard for me to pick a walk-up song because I love so much different kind of music and a lot of people think that that’s the Only band I listen to. But I would have you go warehouse by Dave Matthews. 0:57:55 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, yeah, is there a book that you’ve read that has meant a lot to you, or something that you’ve given to people as gifts, or something that you’d love to? 0:58:02 – Bobby Drummondrecommend. Yep. So I, every person who joins my sales team, actually gets the book a relentless solution focus, so written by dr Jason Selk. He’s actually well yeah, the same Lewis, do you know? 0:58:13 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m that. I know that want to get him on the show, yeah so well I can make an intro. 0:58:19 – Bobby DrummondHim and Ellen Reed yeah, I have that Ellen on the show. Okay, sweet I. So they. They tell a lot of the same story, right, but they have different I mean different versions of it. And I’ve read that book now all the way through, probably four or five times, and Every person on my team gets that book and the whole premise of that book is it’s kind of similar to. It’s similar to the one thing where you find stuff like okay, what’s the one thing that I can do? So set by doing it will make everything else easier unnecessary but relentless solution focus is a lot more looking at like what Jason calls the mental chalkboard. So you have the problem side and the solution side, and a lot of times people will try to do one thing to make something better and it doesn’t work and they never go back to the problem side, knowing that they’re still an issue. So it’s all about being relentless in your pursuit, to continue to ask yourself what’s one thing that I can do to make this better, no matter what the situation is personal, professional, mental, emotional, physical, no matter what it might be and the whole premise of the book is that you’re a happier person and I was supposed to be ratifier, so maybe I shouldn’t do that. I’m into this detail, yeah, but the whole premise of the book is that there’s the nasty six negative emotions, which are fear, anger, stress, anxiety and depression. And oh wait, that’s five. Fear, stress, anxiety kills, depression and something else. Well, we’ll figure it out later. But those different types of feelings cause your brain to release cortisol, which is that fear-inducing chemical that causes you to profound poorly, behave irrationally where people that are solution focus, and that will actually release dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. So to me that’s okay. Like, instead of just saying I don’t notice something, or Just giving up or complaining about something, instead, if you’re trying to move yourself forward and find solutions to a given problem, you’re going to be a happier person as as you look for those solutions that happen. So big thing for me, especially on a on a team that sells insurance. We, if I have happier people working for me, I believe that happier people are going to sell more insurance, which is always good. But I also just that book. It completely changed my life and it’s a big part of why I Really do feel like I was able to shoot under par this year’s because a lot of the visualization and the mental workouts that Jason silk has throughout there. So I would absolutely 100% recommend anyone read that book. What was an immediate, relentless solution focus? Yeah, I’m saying, louis guy. Yeah, all right. 1:01:00 – Jeff PelizzaroWho would be your dream for some. Yes, you got to pick anybody, any time, any place. You know who are the people you’re taking. So these are all goats. 1:01:09 – Bobby DrummondOkay, the way just so you know, tiger, yeah, obviously, yeah, they go play with tiger, even though he’s got one leg. The goat Michael Jordan because again we’re that guy has got to be just an absolute trip. And then my, my personal, I mean, I don’t even know if they Matthews golfs, but I wanted to that golf part with me, right? So, and he’s that, he’s the go to music. Same for me. 1:01:30 – Jeff PelizzaroCan you imagine Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods and their banter and nothing on the golf course? 1:01:35 – Bobby DrummondHe’s that’d be amazing. That would be an I’d love to be a part of that. That was a hard one to come up with, because there’s I feel like there’s so many people that I would love to play with, but I feel like that would be my dream for some, for sure. 1:01:46 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, bucket list course, if we could seal up to the 18STRONG jet we’re taking you anywhere. I feel like there’s a lot of people that say Augusta and St Andrews, god damn it. And so I’m gonna. I’m gonna make this rule now, yeah, okay. Here on out it’s like it will a fortune RST LNE. You can’t take you. We already give you the okay, okay. So I’m throwing you a little curveball. Yeah, but you know, but if you have a real reason why you know, yeah. 1:02:10 – Bobby DrummondWell, you know, what’s funny is I literally put those are the only two down, plus I got some the old course. So I’m like, I’m, I’m Scottish, so and I, my family, we trace our family heritage back there. So I, that’s definitely a huge one. But if I had to pick, so because I, I don’t know, it feels like I mean, you can’t get everywhere, obviously like you want to go somewhere where no one else, yeah, can play, which is why Augusta is obviously such a huge draw. But if we were to go somewhere right now, I’d say, and it’s gonna be somewhere, I haven’t played right. Yes, I’m supposed to play there this next year, but I’d say let’s go to be in the dens, yeah. 1:02:49 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t been there yet, but I mean, everything says that’s, that’s where you gotta go, yeah or like a, maybe like a Cyprus, I don’t know. 1:02:56 – Bobby Drummondsee, now is see if I would have had a little bit more time. That’s right, I’ll have to let you know later where? 1:03:00 – Jeff Pelizzaroso if all the places you played, where would you say I want to go there again today? 1:03:05 – Bobby DrummondSan Valley. Yeah, san Valley was super special not, and it was special before I shot one under par that course there, but it’s such a cool. Like you, your stay, you stay on resort there. I’m sure Bandon’s pretty similar to this as a lot of resort golf courses to you, but the people there were incredible the caddies, the food, the experience. You walk every single round of golf and you’re playing golf the way who’s meant to be played, which is walk 18 holes right. 1:03:33 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I think you alluded to this earlier. Yep, best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given. 1:03:38 – Bobby DrummondYep so I did create your own like kind of free throw routine. If you’re anyone who’s ever played with me, if they might start paying attention to it now. But I do the same thing before every single shot. Same different club twirls, same way I line up my shot. My footwork is the exact same thing. I have the same kind of approach every single thing that I do. My kind of like the hitch in my giddy-up is what I do to get comfortable over a wall and I have a lot of it too. Between creating a free throw routine a lot of it is like then just the trigger and go. So Once you have like a good routine that’s consistent, don’t stray from that. Even if you have a bug flying your ball, something messes you up, don’t feel like you have to rush back into that shot. Create the whole routine over all the way through. But you might have different routines for Driver, to irons, to bunker, to putter, but be consistent in whatever that is. You’ll find yourself be more comfortable over your golf ball. 1:04:33 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s great you guys are in. Is there one social media? Is there an account on social media? Is there an account on social media that you think the 18STRONG career should follow somebody? It doesn’t have to be golf, I’m not give insurance, could just be somebody cool mindset or anything, all right. 1:04:50 – Bobby DrummondSo I had two for this, but I’ll start with one because he’s saying Lewis guy, the part train, oh yeah, yeah, the Evans, an awesome, follow the end. I actually want a putter from them. This past year I don’t know if I told you that, no, I want a meridian putter from them on there. And then we went back and forth and we’re talking a little bit after I told my address was a st Louis one and then I actually Play golf with one of his like high school buddies not too long ago with Corey, okay. And so the part train is great. I’ve listened to a lot of their podcasts, a lot around the mental game and I think so many of my buddies that I go play with. And Actually, back to Jason Selkin, a lot with solution focus. He talks so much about the way you talk to yourself like you’ll start to believe that. So if you tell yourself that you suck on the course, if you tell yourself You’re terrible, that you’re gonna hook this drive, that you’re gonna slice it, whatever it might be, like yours manifesting it, yeah, you, if you say it enough, you’ll end up believing yourself. So I think the part train talks a lot about that. Yeah, awesome, you had another one. No, laying up. Those guys are just awesome. They’re they’re YouTube chain. I love their YouTube channel. They create a lot of really good content, but those are both great. Great follows, awesome. 1:06:07 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, brother, I can’t thank you enough for coming on. One last question would be so anybody that is is out there Looking to make changes and this is about the forging, not about the forge Somebody that’s maybe on the fence of doing something like that Sure, what would you say to them If they’re kind of toiling, you know, I think indecision is one of the biggest things that we have that regarding making commitment, not making or making a change, and I’m not making change what would you say to that person? It’s kind of on the fence or they’re thinking about doing something like the forge. 1:06:35 – Bobby DrummondYeah, I just a full band-aid off and do it. A lot of times people, I’ve talked to a guy here recently that is like me, I’m just prepared myself to go do 75 hard and I’m like, just do it, what are you waiting for? But I get it because I hired a nutrition coach and sometimes you got to get yourself right mentally. But Not only you have to make the decision. If you don’t want to do it, then you’re never gonna do it. So you have to really know that you want it and then from there you have to employ some like your support system on that. So whether that’s a spouse, a significant other, a friend that you’re doing that with every single day, if you don’t have someone that’s kind of there by your side, through it it’s gonna be. It’s gonna be tough and that’s where, like, the forge serves that purpose. And there’s a community of people right here in St Louis that we’re getting together on Sundays and sharing posts about it on on the forge community page on Facebook. So you just got to find your community and that’s where I know I mentioned it before and it it seems kind of silly because I know a lot of people, but I mean what the 18STRONG community has done for me is helped me so much this year, where I’ve gotten to meet so many cool people yourself included, obviously and it just kind of gives you a sense of belonging. And if you don’t have something like that right now, just dude, they need to come up here and and meet you first and foremost, and then do a mandatory golf Friday or start the forge and talk with someone about it. Awesome, all right man. 1:08:06 – Jeff PelizzaroThank you enough for sharing your story and everything, and we’ll be seeing each other on the links for sure. Awesome Cool. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we’d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Play354: Brian Bradley: The Connection Between Posture, Pain Relief and Performance Guest: Brian Bradley – The Egoscue MethodHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 354Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we talk about the connection between posture, pain relief, and performance with Brian Bradley from the Egoscue Method. Brian starts out unraveling the captivating world of pickleball and its differences from golf as it relates to physical capabilities, social aspects, and injuries. Brian, known for his unique insights into body movement, shares the importance of preparation on the court and the vital role of certification and divisions in this increasingly popular sport. He paints a vivid picture of pickleball, a sport marked by its sociability and growth potential. Journey with us as Brian’s expertise extends beyond pickleball and golf into the realm of posture and walking analysis. His experiences in aiding clients achieve improved gait and balance are invaluable. Brian teaches us the art of walking with balance, demonstrating the heel strike technique as a remedy for glute amnesia. We explore activities like cold plunges and infrared treatments, discussing their potential to enhance life quality by reducing pain without getting hung up on individual significance. In our final segments, we delve into deeper territories as we explore the concept of faith in the healing process. Brian encourages us to redefine our understanding of pain – not as harm, but as a signal guiding us towards solutions. We underscore the importance of men’s health and self-care, emphasizing the need to respect oneself and halt the cycle of neglecting personal health. Discover how to navigate your way to a healthier, pain-free life in this enlightening discussion. Whether you’re a pickleball enthusiast or just someone seeking a healthier lifestyle, this episode is a treasure trove of insights. Main Topics (00:04) Exploring Pain, Pickleball, and Movement Pickleball is a social sport with potential for 70 million participants, requiring mindful body movement and preparation, and a need for certification. (08:31) Posture and Walking Analysis Brian Bradley explains the importance of walking with balance, heel strike technique, and how pickleball is the most social sport. (14:51) Body, Mind, and Spirit Jeff shares his experience with cold plunges and infrared treatments to help people enjoy life and play with less pain, emphasizing the importance of focusing on benefits. (29:30) Pain and Healing Relationship Pain is a signal, not a police light, and we discuss breaking the cycle of harm, Robert Redford’s The Horse Whisperer, cold plunges and infrared treatments, and our new partnership with First Form. (35:09) Faith, Finding the Right Path Faith, pain, commitment, and positivity are key to a successful healing journey. (48:40) Strategies for Men’s Health and Self-Care We discuss respect, strategies for physical and longevity, and effective communication and care. (58:36) Golf Improvement Tips and Recommendations Brian shares insights on faith, respect, and strategies for developing a healthier relationship with oneself. Follow Brian Instagram: @thebrianbradley Egoscue Website: Egoscue.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 354 with Brian Bradley from Egoscue. Hey South guys, welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everybody deserves to play better, longer. This episode we have with our good friend, Brian Bradley. I think this is Brian’s third time coming on the 18STRONG Podcast. Brian is the Vice President and Head of Brand Development and Special Programs over at Egoscue. He’s also on a mission to help millions of people learn how to live healthier lives and basically achieve complete fitness and pain free way of living. Brian speaks and consults with tons of corporations all over the world doing training for corporations and other organizations like Tony Robbins, the Titles Performance Institute, as well as the NFL and YPO. In this episode we talk about all kinds of different things. In fact, what I love about having Brian on the show is we always go in many different directions that I don’t anticipate going in. We talk about living in pain and really how we can utilize the idea of pain and change our perspective on pain. Rather than it being something bad and something that we have to deal with, it can actually be an alert of something that needs to be changed or something that we can do to make ourselves better, and we even talk about some other random things, including breast implants. So stay tuned for that. But Brian is always an incredible guest on the show and I know you’re going to enjoy this one. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. Go again 18strongcom slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, Brian Bradley. Welcome back to the 18strong podcast. It’s so good to be here. 0:02:28 – Brian BradleyIt’s been such a long time. 0:02:30 – Jeff PelizzaroI know, I know we got to catch up on all your pickleball and everything that you’re doing these days. You’re traveling all over. You’re at the Tony Robbins events. Tell me a little bit about the pickleball these days, cause it used to be that you’re playing a ton of table tennis, but now I see pickleball everywhere. 0:02:49 – Brian BradleyYeah, listen, the difference between the two sports is one’s not as nerdy as the other and pickleball is the most social sport I’ve ever seen in my life. Like you know, when you go golfing with your friends or whoever, let’s say, you get thrown into a foursome. You’re all pretty good friends by the time you’re done, depending on how much money you take from them. Pickleball I played for three hours yesterday total and played with 14 different people eight, six or eight of them, I didn’t even know. Now we’re all pretty connected. It’s just amazing. So it’s just much more social. There’s going to be 70 million people doing it by 2030. And you know that’s why. You know I saw this a while ago and I’m like, okay, so that’s why I started paying free pickleball for that kind of stuff, not to teach how to. It’s like teaching golf. Right, I know just enough to be dangerous to be teaching golf, but you shouldn’t be teaching golf, Brian. Lead that to the pro. So I’ll leave it to the teachers. What I am going to show you is how your body’s moving on the court. It is not serving you. So when you go for a backhand just hitting it back across, which they call a dink, I don’t know where it came from. Nice slow ping pong shot across, but you didn’t bend your legs or your knees or your ankles. 100% of that went into your lumbar spine. Your low back takes a beating and you wonder why? I got hurt by pickleball. That’s more embarrassing than saying CrossFit hurt me. Come on. 0:04:12 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine that you know and I’ve even heard this from a few docs that I know that and it used to be CrossFit. It’s funny that you said that because a bunch of orthopedic surgeons used to say CrossFit was the best thing to ever happen to their, to their profession. And I have now heard them switch that over to pickleball or say that you know that’s kind of the up and coming version of it, because they see so many people and to your point, most just aren’t prepared to be out there moving and cutting and dinking and doing all these different kinds of activities because they haven’t prepared their body, they aren’t doing the things on a regular basis or they just don’t know what they need to be able to do out there and they just jump right in. 0:04:51 – Brian BradleyListen, dave Phillips from TPI are out at a couple of car events, because we’re both car guys like to go to the track, stuff like that. When we start talking pickleball he’s like dude, I see you’re killing it, you’re doing this, blah, blah, blah. But the highest I’ll ever get is probably a four or five. Like I’m not going to go for a five. Oh, and go to the senior crow. Yes, all this stuff I actually enjoy the rest of my life outside of pickleball. But they’re going to start a whole certification and division. I guarantee you, because of it, just the numbers. 0:05:22 – Jeff PelizzaroIt makes sense. I mean, just like golf, you know, helping people prepare, especially because there’s such a huge population of non-professional players, right, people that, just like in golf, you can play this up to whatever age you want to play it. But that also means there’s that much larger of a population that needs to be prepared or needs to be in preventative treatments for those injuries or post rehab related stuff from the injuries. And so it is. It’s a huge, huge market, and I’m sure we’re going to talk about a lot of the crossover of things that we need to prepare our body for, both for pickleball, for golf, and how we can remedy or how we can prevent a lot of, really some of these useless injuries that shouldn’t even happen. 0:06:07 – Brian BradleyWell, listen and I’m not judging what you just said, other than I’m judging it let’s take the word useless out of there and go these absolutely useful injuries, because now, if we start viewing them as a gift, they’re there to teach us something. My body’s not working the way that it should. The injury is a signal. I just put this stuff up yesterday on a post on my Instagram, talking about guys you’ve got to start moving. This is you were talking about, start asking better questions. Well, the whole premise was move better, not just move, move better. You and I have been in this mindset for well over a decade more. I mean just with golf. But I would back in the day when I sat there and watched Jack Nicklaus hitting and I’m calling my dad going I just gave Jack Nicklaus a golf lesson and he was like, yeah, so much for golf. It wasn’t that I was teaching him golf. Very simply, it was in a basic nutshell are you able to separate? Well, we do the same thing with our NFL teams. I take an offensive lineman, left tackle who’s the real? You know, he’s got to be the guy that’s protecting the backside, the blind side. He gets down in his stance and his butts up like this and his head’s down. He’s already a second slower. Take a look at the Niners and just watch Bosa. He’s lining up and he’s like this. He is literally like an animal that’s ready to attack you that way not here, and then having to lift, and all you have to do is give them the disassociation test, which we can show your people here if they haven’t seen in a while. It’s the number one, in my opinion, the number one way to assess whether somebody has athletic ability or not. Second would be the hanging test. Are you hinging from the pelvis or are you bending from your back? I don’t care how you look, how are you moving? And then I’ll give them the Jeff to go golf specific or whatever you’re into. Now you know that kind of stuff. So for me it’s just such a diverse thing. Rotational athletics is what I’m interested in, but if you think of every sport you know, including walking, they’re all rotational athletics, right. 0:08:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, everything revolves around just movements of the body. You mentioned just learning to move better. When you say that, what are some of the things that you see people doing on a regular basis? I love watching your Instagram because sometimes you’ll just like take a snapshot of just, you know, people in the wild and just draw little pictures or little arrows showing what we all tend to do just naturally, positions we hold ourselves in, ways that we walk that aren’t really natural, aren’t the way that we should be doing. Can you give us a little insights and maybe people can kind of catch themselves on a few of the things that they might be doing on a regular basis that you would take a picture of and snapshot and point that out? 0:09:09 – Brian BradleySo for those of you that are driving, waiting until you get home to look at this visual, but if you’re looking at it now, I’m going to show you a gate video Somebody walking. I was in Florida and thank God I rented from Turro because I got a Tesla so I could sneak up on him because there was no noise, right, I was like the creeper, 55 year old, sneaking up on this dude. But just take a look at bilateral. For those of you listening and don’t understand, I just very simply you should be balanced. From left to right, the same arm swing, the same leg swing, the same calf size, the same calf size on the other side. The feet are turned out on one side. They should at least both be turned out. You know, if you’re going to have your feet and turning out, then have them be equal. So think of balance when you’re looking at this and then say is this person balanced? Look at the lack of arm swing on one side versus the other. Look at the calf size on one side versus the other. 0:10:06 – Jeff PelizzaroYou can even see him kind of tipping and leaning and walking to one side. 0:10:11 – Brian BradleyYeah, because he’s trying to pick up a leg that no longer works, which is why he leans that direction. That’s the arm that’s over swinging. The other one’s not swinging. So, as a therapist, we can go no, that arm doesn’t swing, that’s a problem. Versus that arm doesn’t swing. I wonder if it’s trying to lock itself down to protect you in some way. So I’m a glass half full guy and I’m going the body will never make a mistake, even with that gate. There’s nothing wrong with it. They’re just trying to get from point A to point B. They’re just doing it like this, whereas you and I might be doing it like this. It doesn’t mean we’re better, just means we’re better aligned. So I got the guy and I said hey, excuse me, sir, how are you Now? First of all, you’re driving a Tesla three, so he’s probably not threatened, because you never hear about gang members going. They pulled up in a Tesla three and they killed everybody. So you know what I’m saying. He’s not really that guy. So I pulled up as probably pretty safe. I said excuse me, can I show you something? You’re out exercising today. Why are you doing it? I’m in the field. I work with a lot of pro athletes. I dropped three or four names so he went oh, I remember those guys over golfers and stuff like that. I said look at your walking. And I said do you notice how one arm doesn’t swing? And he goes. Well, I have a lot of pain, but your, I applaud you for being out here to try to lose weight. Be more functional, get strong. He said, yeah, I retired down here a while ago, but my body’s not my body didn’t get the message. So what do you think I had him? Do I have literally 30 seconds to impress the guy as I’m the creeper or I’m the hero to him, right? So I’d rather be the second. What do you think I had him do? 0:11:49 – Jeff PelizzaroI guess you had him stand up, maybe turned his toes in, put his hands locked his hands behind his head and pulled his elbows all the way back. That’s going to be my guess. 0:11:59 – Brian BradleyYes, except I didn’t have him stay still. I said will you do me a favor and walk 20 yards forward, 20 yards back with your hands, like this, drop your traps, elbows back. Completely different, completely different, Jeff. It was so simple. But the guy came back. He’s like what just happened. I don’t hurt. And I said were you also? You’re not any thinner either, but you’d like to be. So why don’t you do some of your walk with your hands on your head? And maybe your ass will pay you back, because now you’re moving your length system. Now you’re really getting a good heel strike. Listen, there’s a heel strike. That’s how you cure glute amnesia by getting the heel to hit correctly. For those of you listening, walk around your house, put your hands on your butt cheek. Every time your heel hits the ground, your glute should fire. That means my foot’s in front of me, Jeff, when my glute fires to help me transition back to the mid stance and back through terminal. So why don’t we go to the gym and do butt blasters where we’re donkey kicking behind us? It makes no sense. That’s why, when I’m talking to a guy’s like Lance Gill, he’s like you know what? It’s interesting because I do a lot of these glute amnesia things and their glute amnesia is no better Like buddy. Their glute amnesia is a positive. Their glutes aren’t firing for a reason. Now dig into that. And for this guy it was changes thoracic spine. How about for this guy before and after? Yeah Right, that’s no different from what you just saw, except in the green shorts. I got him 14 days before that green fight and look at the difference. And he punched the guy in the MMA fight with the top of his shoulder four times and broke his nose with his shoulder. For those of you, listening. 0:13:54 – Jeff PelizzaroThat was a picture of Conor McGregor that Brian had worked with and you know that’s something that I had always noticed about Conor and I guess most of us in the field would is the way that he would stand was so internally rotated, rounded shoulders, thoracic spine really flexed over, and it always just looked so strange to me. But you write that picture. So for those of you that are listening, definitely go to YouTube and watch the video so you can see that picture of the difference in his posture there. It’s amazing. 0:14:27 – Brian BradleyListen, I don’t like to disparage him because if he gets pissed off he knows where I am and he can put a beat down on me. But I can say this probably one of the top three smartest athletes I’ve ever had the chance to work with, fred Warner being probably number one. You saw what he did to Dallas the other day. I mean the guys that he just gets it, he understands, do your functional movement and look what he does. Conor was one of those ones that just says okay, pop, pop, pop. Oh, okay, good, that’s in this position where he’s rounded over. We gave him one exercise which moved him back, kind of like hands on head, but it was all loaded up and I said now throw your punch, because I saw that his feet went from 45 degrees out to almost completely straight as he was walking. So I already knew that the base of support was firing better, his so as his deep hip muscle, the circuit breaker, was turned back on because his feet got straighter. So now he went pop, pop, pop. He looked at his coach and said I don’t know what it looked like, but that felt so much more crisp and sounded louder and faster and they were like whatever you did keep doing it because he they were getting the fighter back versus the entrepreneur, the very successful businessman that doesn’t win you fights. No, it makes you $200 million a year in the most successful athlete ever. I get it, but it’s comes at a consequence, and maybe part of his stuff was when he was working with Tony Robbins too, where he was going through the psychological stuff where he threw the thing through the bus at Khabib. I mean, you don’t talk stuff. People react like that because they’re just in a different mound. Their mind and their hearts aren’t synced into one. Is that a word Synced into one? My God, my dad taught English too. I’m sorry, father. So you know just one of these things where, when you can change the body, mind and spirit together, you have a fighter that showed up for the cowboy fight. When the, when the body is not congruent and the mind and heart are not linked up, then you have the Khabib fight, which is that before picture. He was lost and he knew it and I got him just by sending him the picture from the fight and said Khabib cheated, he had a hole in me. If you want to talk about it, and it’s not the Khabib cheated, look how Khabib entered the fight. I mean, this is, this is the picture you should be really interested in. Is this? Look at Khabib’s position versus Connor Wow. 0:16:47 – Jeff PelizzaroLook at that difference that’s so drastic between the two of them. 0:16:51 – Brian BradleyAnd it wasn’t that Connor couldn’t fight and just couldn’t breathe. And for those of you who know your diaphragm is your breathing muscle, over 24,000 times a day should be firing my body breathes in and out, front to back. It doesn’t, paradoxically, breathe like this where I’m heaving up, like that. 0:17:11 – Jeff PelizzaroCan you take us back to the gentleman that you saw walking on the road and you know you said you had yet 30 seconds with them to a minute? Why choose that specific exercise and can you tell us this cascading effects of how that impacted him so thoroughly, from head to toe? 0:17:29 – Brian BradleyOkay, you ready? This is. This is top secret, nasa level information. I’m going to give you this, so just show how smart I am. Here’s what I said. Well, one arm doesn’t move and the other one does. I wonder what happens when he puts his hands on his head and puts them both in the same position. That, honestly, was the genius at work. And remember, you have to know your stuff so well you can. I’m not calling people dumb, but you have to be able to dumb your stuff down, like we can get into biomechanics. My my talk yesterday was going into rehabilitation of the spine Pavel Kolaj, vladimir Yanda, craig Liebenson and Vojta Carl Levitt all these guys from the Czech Republic, and that’s. That’s science beyond science. But I have to be able to read something and then dumb it down where my little brain can understand it. And then I say, well, I wonder how I could even make it not smaller, more understandable, more relevant to that person. Cause, Jeff, think about marketing, Jeff, what do you do for a living? So I’m going to ask that question what do you do for a living? 0:18:42 – Jeff PelizzaroI help golfers get stronger so they can play the game longer and and better. Why? 0:18:48 – Brian Bradleydo you do that? Hold on. Why do you do that? 0:18:55 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I can help them enjoy the game more, so I can help them enjoy their, their life more, so they can, you know, go through the day with less pain and play the game that they love even better. 0:19:07 – Brian BradleyI hope everybody heard what he said. He scooted around what and why. Very well, because he clearly understands his clients. He went right to how it affects them. I don’t care what you do, Jeff, I don’t even really care. Remember it’s me. I’m the golfer. I don’t even really care why you do it. I care how it’s going to make me better. I’m selfish. So if we can all just accept that we’re all just selfish, speak to how I’m good at. Speaking to how, cause I don’t need my significance jumped up by going. Let me tell you what I do and why I do it, and make it about me. I don’t care about me and you’re looking at the most selfish human on the planet. I’ll get into a 34 degree cold plunge in the morning because it serves me. I’ll do infrared at night for 30, 40 minutes because it serves me, even if it gets in the way of doing something around the house. I’ll do that later, because if I’m not happy, then nobody’s happy. You know it’s happy husband, happy life. Okay, that doesn’t rhyme at all, but still we’ll come up with something you know what. 0:20:20 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s funny you mentioned the cold plunge, the infrared. I know that you are really involved in a lot of the restorative care, the recovery, and it’s a topic that we hear a lot about. We see people cold plunging, we see people doing cold showers. Cold showers is one of the things that we have our people do during our 40 day forge. But I want to dig into the recovery piece from your perspective. Why is it so important and why do you take so much time to educate yourself? You mentioned you do it personally, for yourself, because, selfishly, you want to feel better, you want to move better. But what are some of the biggest components that we need to know about recovery and how the heat, how the cold, how the infrared, how they impact us. 0:21:03 – Brian BradleyOkay, here we go. I just made the sign of the cross because I hope I know what I’m talking about. Otherwise I’m going to send you right to a Huberman lab and let them talk to you about it. Right, let’s just let we’ll just clip some of Andrew Huberman in here right now. We should just cut away to Andrew Huberman now talking about cold shock and heat shock proteins. So, knowing enough to be dangerous, I don’t do any of these for recovery Zero. What am I recovering from? 0:21:34 – Jeff PelizzaroDon’t know. 0:21:35 – Brian BradleyHickleball Like. But if you think about it, I am recovering from pickleball because it does beat the heck like me, but I’m not doing it for recovery. I get up in the morning to serve myself heart, mind, body, whatever. To get in that water, and there’s no. Tony Robin says it perfectly Once I get in, there’s no negotiating. Once I see that water, there’s no negotiating. You have to literally say that to yourself, otherwise you go right into that sympathetic nervous system and go. I could easily talk myself out of getting in the cold today. 34 degrees, 34 degrees and I listen does it do more than 50 degrees? On the research side, 49 degrees doesn’t really give me more than what 34 degrees does, except I’ll argue with anybody about this. I will argue with you that it does this. I’m just going to give you a visual. Hey, forget this picture with me without a shirt on. But that’s what you get, right? 0:22:37 – Jeff PelizzaroOh my gosh, the lice. 0:22:40 – Brian BradleyBut listen how calm the water is about 34. Stay in here for three to four minutes. Get off my nipple. Okay, you didn’t need that part. Okay, sorry about that part, but you know, one of those pieces of ice started to head toward my chest and I had to talk to it to get away. But that’s four inch pieces of ice that I had to break up because it was that cold. Well, that’s the psychology, that’s the known negotiating. We understand the physical side, what the liver is going to do. So during your 40 day forge cold showers, in my opinion, are more difficult sometimes because that water is just beating the H out of you. It’s just never, it’s relentless. When you get into freezing, calm water, then you can, and there’s your sympathetic to parasympathetic shift, there’s your control of that cortisol shift. Once you can control and I know controls and illusion, but let’s just use it Once you can embrace cortisol and sympathetic so it no longer has control of you, can you imagine what the toughest 40 yard pot to win the opens going to do to you? Absolutely nothing. You may make or miss the pot, but you’re not going to miss it because of the Yips. You’re going to miss it because your cat aligned you incorrectly. Okay, we’ll blame the catty, but I do it mainly for the hormonal response and my overcoming the quote fear of what the water is going to feel like. 0:24:24 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s one of the biggest reasons that we put that in that challenge because and it’s fun to hear people respond when they initially say, oh my God, I can’t do that, there’s no way and then they do it and they get out and they’re like I felt like a whole new person when I stepped out of that first shower. And there’s one gentleman in particular that I can think of. He did the forge two years ago and has done a cold shower every single day since. Because of that feeling right there, Because of I didn’t want to do it. I told myself I was going to do it. I did it. It sucked, but I got through it and then was obviously elated with the change of state, the change of physiology, but it was the building of the confidence level that also changed. 0:25:14 – Brian BradleyYou don’t know what you really don’t know, right, until somebody shows you that kind of stuff, what you’ve done. Like Wim Hof, we wouldn’t have started really looking at the fascia if it weren’t for Thomas Myers doing some guesswork, then some scientific work, and then you know. Whether he’s right or wrong about certain things, I don’t really care. It’s that he’s got us to look at. Hey, do you realize that I could release your eyebrow up here with pressure points and your plantar fascia goes away, like, what? Like, no, that’s. We were in university. Nothing like that was taught, but yet it’s effective enough for us to release. Look into the research, and it’s true. So when you look at cold, the Agassiou method which is what I do and have been doing it for 33 years whatever has completely changed my view? And Pete Agassiou himself is a great question. Asking therapist, when you report yourself in tears, I have this and blah, blah, blah, blah, he just goes. Okay, okay, he’ll let you talk. He’ll let you talk Because remember, we’ve said this before the person in charge of the conversation is the one listening. He’s looking for that one opening to speak to how it affects that person. And now we have buy-in forever. That’s how I get raving fans who just literally say I’m in this forever, and then they can’t shut up about it, because when you’re given the opportunity to live pain free and it takes a minimal dose to get it done somebody posted about this thing I did yesterday and the guy said you should just go to a chiropractor. Well, if you’re not a confident individual in your own line of work and who you are then you can’t give away what you don’t have. My answer could have gone two ways. I’m going to take that statement personally. How dare you come on my post and promote chiropractic? I’m not a chiropractor. That’s competition. No, it’s not. We’re in this together. We both, as a field, want to do this together. So I could have gone left and taken it personally and gotten in a fight. I chose to go right and say okay, real quick. Yes, chiropractic is amazing. I go to a chiropractor because I want to, not because I have to. When you do your minimal dose of a goscue every morning, you’re now making the chiropractor’s job easier, so he or she can now take you to the healing process of why they went into this work in the first place not to see you over and over and over and over again for the same stuff. So when your people do these cold showers, they are forever hormonally changed. That’s what you’re hearing. Is the hormone change? 0:28:08 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you’re talking with different clients, different people that you come into contact with athletes and they present with these seemingly impossible injuries or things that they’ve had in the past and they feel like they’ve done everything they can, they can’t change. I know that that’s not something that you believe in. How do you help them to realize that? First of all, it takes a lot of responsibility on their part to make these changes? Even the gentleman that you saw walking down the road probably doesn’t think that at this point of his life he can make a whole lot of changes to make himself better. You showed him in a quick glimpse that there are things. How do you break that barrier when somebody kind of pushes back on that, and how do you? What would you tell our audience that is maybe struggling with pain, maybe struggling with something that they’ve been dealing with for a long time and they haven’t been able to find that answer yet? 0:29:05 – Brian BradleyChange your verbal relationship with pain. So I’m going to read you something, and this book is Rehabilitation of the Spine. Just some light reading yeah, it’s a lot, but over my shoulder here. And then we’ll talk about the biocharger and not that. I other than remember we were talking about biohacking and the crazy stuff we’re doing. This is just crazy. So pain equals harm, is there? That’s their relationship with pain. Okay, I have pain If I get on that bike again at Herbie last time, so now the bike hurt me. Now I have a bad relationship with biking or golfing, and yet you want them to get over it. We got to change that from pain equals harm to pain equals. I wonder what it means. It’s a message, it’s a signal. Well, I wonder what that signal is. And the signal doesn’t have to be the police lights where it’s blue and red and you’re going oh no, somebody’s going to get arrested for bad things. I view it as Christmas lights. It’s here for a good reason, like it’s Christmas. Let’s learn from those lights. Let’s learn from that signal so that we can break the cycle, because even when the pain goes away, that bike, that son of a bike think about that person getting angry every time they look in the garage because that $7,000 bike can hurt them. Still on the wall. Well, it’s not. It’s not. You got to break that cycle by helping them embrace it. So it’s like my my knees got kicked in the face literally by a horse when she was younger, destroyed her whole face, got surgeries, all that stuff or whatever healed it. But think about the PTSD that goes with that. Does she ever want to be around a horse again? 0:31:01 – Jeff PelizzaroLikely not. 0:31:02 – Brian BradleyIt’s that movie, the Horse Whisperer. It’s literally that movie. And you know, Robert Redford the horse whisperer was able to change the psychology by going. The horse did not want to hurt you, the bike didn’t want to hurt you, the golf club didn’t want to hurt you, CrossFit didn’t want to hurt you. Break the harm cycle. But again, you can’t give away what you don’t have If you don’t have a belief system, as a practitioner, that the body is trying to tell me something versus something’s wrong. You’re always focused on something’s wrong and I’m not saying ignore kidney symptoms, ignore liver symptoms and don’t get an MRI to see if it’s the C word. You know you got to go check that stuff, but even at that point, damn, I’m as diagnosed with cancer. Okay, let’s get busy, or let’s get busy dying. 0:32:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI choose, let’s get busy. 0:32:04 – Brian BradleyIf it’s my time, it’s my time. I’m here for a good time not a long time, right, but I’d like to live like I’m 55. I’m one third of the weight through my life. I have a long time left. So if I bleed in the harm, then everything about it is harmful and then what happens is you go to fear. Avoidance equals deconditioning and then the endurance starts to wail because you start to go to bed. Rest that Instagram I posted yesterday 10% strength loss. For every week you’re immobilized. When you will mobilize a knee, you get permanent changes in how the knee is able to relate to different movements and the capsule shrink said all these different things happen. Now I don’t ever believe permanent is permanent. I believe you can interrupt permanent with the correct alignment over my left shoulder. Once you establish that, then everything becomes non permanent again. I think you can start that healing process. I think you can start that healing process. I think you can start that healing process as we’ve seen with people with bunions. 0:33:11 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. It really is the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results, aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plant or the warehouse, and it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually letting them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to FirstFormcom that’s P-H-O-R-M com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. I saw you make a post this might have been a couple of years ago and I thought it was really interesting, because at first I was like I’m not even sure what he’s talking about here. But you were talking about faith and you said that it’s important to have faith in your healing and I think when people hear faith they think of different things. But you said it’s important to have faith in the fact that what you’re doing is going to get you there and the methods that you’re doing, because if you don’t have faith, you’re not going to be committed to doing the right things right, you’re not going to be committed to doing your daily agascus, you’re not going to be committed to doing your, as we like to call our, efds. Can you speak on that a little bit, about knowing the right track that you’re moving on? Because I think that many times we’re in this place where you have back pain, you have hip pain, neck pain, shoulder pain, whatever it is, and you have all these different things you’re trying. You’re scrolling through Instagram. You see Brian Bradley post something, you see somebody else post something, you see all these different exercises and we all have this, you know, fix it now mentality, and we don’t know where to start, we don’t know where to go, and so if you don’t know which ones right, you keep grasping at straws. But when you recognize that there is a path, how do you help somebody figure out what that path is and give them that faith to continue and be committed and compliant Again? 0:36:29 – Brian Bradleythis is very scientific, almost NASA level stuff. Here you ready, we’re sharing it all. You’ve got the hashtag STFU, because if you don’t, then you’re no longer listening for the opening. Remember I said Peter Gossky was a master at listening for connection. That’s what I learned, because I love to talk, but only when there’s a goal. The goal would be to help that other person. So if my goal is to help that other person, let’s find the easiest route there by just actively listening to them. Tell me your story, take your time. Here’s a box of tissues. Okay, great. So I just have a question about your car wreck. Are you driving again? Well, of course, where’d you drive to last time? Let’s see where I’m taking them. Well, I went to Walmart. What’d you get? Well, I just bought stuff for the house and then you drove home. Yeah, but you’ve changed their state about that injury or that PTSD type of this. That will help them with the. The quote faith in their own body by getting rid of the pain equals harm. That’s not faith. That’s being scared. I’m not telling you not to be scared. We all have reasons to be scared. Look at what’s happening in the Middle East right now. I don’t even live there and I’m scared for all of them and this divergence. We have to literally find a way to have these discussions. I have faith that it’s going to remedy itself at a certain point. I truly do. It’s not going to be tomorrow, I can tell you that. But if you don’t have faith in and it’s a glass half full kind of thing, then you’re always looking for problems. Imagine dating somebody who’s always looking for problems, and that’s an analogy I give the people. Sometimes you hear yourself You’re always negative. How’s that ever going to be positive? If you’re always well, the other shoe is going to drop. Well, I was watching this show on Netflix the other day and I recommend everybody to watch the series, whether you agree or not, I don’t care. The fab five from queer I remember those guys. Yeah, dude, they just came. They just did a new series where they’re going into people’s homes and businesses and doing makeovers on everything. But there’s a young black man that’s in there with them who’s one of the five, and his play on psychology and how he understands and listens. I think the guy’s amazing. And the guy that does the hair, who wears the dressings he’s so flamboyant, makes the show, of course, but to watch. These guys have good intentions. I can’t stress enough what you’ll learn just by watching the show. And they had a young man in there where you had a really kind of beautiful fro and he was a. He’s a. I’m teaching people how to garden in their city to bring people that aren’t wealthy healthy food. I mean, come on, it’s so great on what he’s really focused on. But he had no idea because he he didn’t grow up like this. And here’s what he always said I don’t have a dress. Well, because I don’t feel like I deserve it. I don’t. I go into these board meetings with dirt on my fingernails and all this stuff and people look at me and I’m asking them for $100,000 to fund this. Excuse me, but you can’t give away what you don’t have. And he didn’t have self-confidence, self-love, until they got involved and said are you kidding? So we’re going to make you over physically, we’re going to help you understand things. Mentally, we’re going to have you walk into a new house with your wife Everything’s new because it’s time to step away from who you were not step away from what you were doing and what your goal is, but you got to bring something new to it and I just. I was traveling so I got to binge this a little bit. It was amazing to watch what they’re doing. Now. Remember, listen, I live in the Tony Robbins world. Which is what if you ask a different question? What if you do make that two millimeter shift and your faith, your belief, takes over versus you going well, I hope to someday be successful. Well, there’s a big hole in hope and when we get clients in chronic pain or limitations. I’m seeing a baseball player tomorrow who has he’s had Tommy John surgery. Now he’s worried about it coming back and I’m going to literally walk in and go congratulations, you’re all the stronger than it’s ever been. Well, what’s going to protect your shoulder? Because you’re still throwing wrong. Now let’s find a way to get you to Conor McGregor Hip drives the throw. The same thing we did with the guy walking hands on head brought his feet back in. Now he became a little bit more hip driven. You and I live in the hip driven world. If you’re not swinging a club with your hips, you’re going to lose clubhead speed. I don’t care what wedge you’re using, you’re going to skull it. You’re not going to hit under the ball. So faith is tied to beliefs and my job and all my therapists at Agasku are very well versed on shut up, listen for the opening and then ask a question. And then, when they ask a question, you can come in with your expertise. Let me show you the diaphragm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, that’s great, but that’s what we do. I need to know how this translates into how it affects that person. And when you get to how, Jeff, which you do very well, there’s few people out there that can get to how, because they don’t have calm in their life. And I mean, I don’t even know how to say it any differently than when you decide to have calm in your life. It’s a whole different story, and I have it. You know, road rage doesn’t affect me. You can drive the way you want to drive. I drive a 500 horsepower car, but it’ll never be in a street race. You know it’ll never, because that’s my ego taking over and ego stands, in my opinion, for edging God out and I end up killing somebody. Not fun. I’ll give you a little story on that real quick, because judgment is one of the biggest things that shuts down all this belief system. There was a young kid and I live in a small town here in San Diego, but it’s a smallish town, call it, 8,000 houses or something right. You know that’s what they do. You know that’s what they do. This kid’s driving like a 1994 Mustang GT and he’s coming through the downtown like a bat out of hell. I mean he’s flying and I’m thinking, my God, there’s a park there, there’s a dog park, there’s the middle school, there’s the elementary. What is this kid doing? So I would be the jerk if I chased them. So I knew there were two red lights and I’ll finally catch them. So then I started following him. Now he’s thinking who’s the creeper following me? Kind of like the guy in Florida. And I caught him on a cul-de-sac where I rolled down my window and he rolled his down. He goes, what’s up? And I said beautiful car, I’m 55. I remember having one of these GTs in 1986 when they first started moving over to the five liter. Is that the 4.6 liter? Oh yeah, I’m no longer there to fight him, but I’m going to get my message across. And I said amazing. I said you know what’s going to ruin it for you with that car when my son’s leaving middle school and you run him over because of how fast you came through downtown. Please, for your own good, slow down, because your life will never be the same if you run over someone’s dog or someone’s kid or cause a wreck. And you know what his answer back to me was. I will absolutely do that. Thank you so much for not yelling at me. You have a way to communicate to your client, your customer, or to your lover, to your partner, to whoever which is why I referenced the Queer Eye stuff on Netflix, because I’m going to post about it. I’m going to film some of the show, probably get sued for it, okay, but I’m going to say you guys aren’t watching this for any other reason than just listen to how they’re speaking to this person and how they bring this young kid who was in a car wreck and he’s in a wheelchair and he’s thinking about suicide, and how they empower this kid to use his chair as a way to empower other people. And we’re going to make it easy on you we’re going to pay your rent for the next year, wow. So you got me into an apartment that’s all wheelchair friendly. You got me new clothes so I can walk out with a shirt that says look at me versus don’t look at me, I’m in a wheelchair, don’t judge me. Why did God do this to me, changing that belief system? I mean, I’ve been around that for 30 years. Robbins was one of my first clients I ever worked on and his whole belief system was why is it happening and why is your reaction that way? What if you chose? What if Peter Gosk you? What if your pain is there for a reason? And so that guy that got out of the shower. I would say to him tell me more. Well, what do you mean? Okay, I don’t need a video, thank you, but just tell me more about what you’re really feeling. What did the cold water do? I understand? You felt like a new man. What new man? And just listen. So this whole belief system I know we’re off track a little bit on sports performance, but half of it’s 70% of it is mindset. Forgive me one more example. I did a podcast on breast implants. What the hell do I know about breast implants? I’m a straight guy and I love breasts when I was younger. 0:47:30 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, great, wait you don’t still love them. 0:47:33 – Brian BradleyNo, I love them. But see, I was the only kid out of five that breasted. So my mom said I had a fetish. I don’t know something like that. But this young lady was doing a podcast on breast implant removal. Because of the toxins that go into that, no matter what, that her body was fighting it. Well, I can get on there. And she said Well, what made you the expert? And I jumped and said oh, my heterosexual male fan of boobs, blah, blah, blah. Breast fat, all this stuff. I’m joking around about it, but this is not a joking matter to her. And I said to her but this isn’t a joking matter. Call her Lisa, lisa, this is not a joking matter, so forget what I just said. I have a question for you before we start. You’re getting your breast implants removed in a week. Yes, I’m so excited. She’s smiling. I said I just have a question for you. Why’d you get them in the first place? When you can answer that question, then you’ll really be healed, because taking them out is not going to heal you as to why you were so insignificant without them. And I said you better have a box of tissues before you start talking, because here it comes. Sure enough, she starts crying and it’s her podcast. But if all these women could learn one message what about me? Didn’t I like that? I needed to go get that. So other people liked me and I’m not judging them. They look amazing, but why’d you get them? And to joke, on the other side, my mother. She had liver tubes in and I walk in and she’s 80. She has her top off and she’s cleaning the things. I go Mom, come on please, I’m your son, I can’t see you like this. Put those away”. And she goes oh, you don’t like my 36 loans. And we had that kind of relationship and I’ll remember that because they both passed away. But things like that, they happen to you for a reason. But you’ve got to be aware of yourself to be able to have those things happen to you, otherwise you’re just gonna skim by them. 0:49:30 – Jeff PelizzaroBut I love about our conversations, Brian, is that we go in way different directions than I ever ever would imagine, but they’re always so pointed on deeper topics that mean so much more. And talking about the different, most of the people that we work with or that listen to the show we’re finding are kind of either they’re in the fitness profession, they’re in the medical profession or they’re the golfing crowd that’s pretty much kind of in the 35 and beyond, typically males. And what I found working with a lot of these guys is they find themselves in these positions where now they’ve been working, they’ve been raising a family, they’ve been working their tails off, they’re at a job all day, and it’s almost to the point where they just kind of get in this rut of doing their daily things, doing living life the way that they know how to live it, doing the best they can to get by, to support their family, and they’re not taking care of themself, they’re not doing the things that are going to really allow them. Let’s forget about golf. I mean, golf is a big piece of it, but they’re not allowing themselves the opportunity to live as fully as they can from a physical standpoint, from a longevity standpoint, and I think that it comes onto a lot of what you’re talking about, of having some of that respect for yourself and understanding that the only way that we can take care of the other people in our lives is that we have to take care of ourselves first. And what are some of the strategies that you found to help some of these types of individuals maybe break that cycle, break that mental state of I’m doing all these things and I don’t take the time to do it and take care of myself. 0:51:13 – Brian BradleyOkay, so if I heard you right, we men cavemen me big dumb animal. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus and we get upset at the woman because she doesn’t understand us and she gets upset at us because we don’t understand her. There’s not a chance that’s happening, unless you realize at first we’re different and as a man, I choose to self-deprecate a little bit and go I’m the big dumb animal here. You better dumb your conversation down so I get it and then I paraphrase stuff back to them. So when one of your guys, for example, let’s say a fitness guy there’s a fitness guy on Instagram who always has his shirt off. Long hair looks like a really bad version of Jesus. I don’t know. He’s on there, he’s like. So if you really want to, you know back pain to go away. You got to do this. I’m like whatever floats your boat, but instantly I go to my God. If this guy could only see himself through other people’s eyes and they’re asking why. You might as well get breast implants because your shirt’s off for a reason. Listen, I’m in pretty decent shape for 105 years old, but you’re not gonna see me going. Look at that. You know that bad. When I post something, there’s a reason I’m covered up, because I don’t need somebody coming in saying you look like shit or you look amazing. I don’t need either one of those, but what I am gonna do is I’m gonna speak the truth that that person needs to hear. And Paul Chek said it perfectly about nutrition, which I really liked the way he said it. He said look, there’s a lot of people teaching nutrition out there, but if you can’t teach nutrition without your shirt on, you shouldn’t be teaching nutrition. Right, that was a pretty decent statement, but that’s just not true. I’m an amazing pickleball coach. I’m even an amazing golf coach, amazing table tennis, amazing biking, downhill, boxing, baseball cause I’m a much better coach than I am player. When I watch a person throw, I’m looking not at where the ball is going, I’m looking at what they’re doing, what’s the release point, where’s the elbow, all that stuff and then simplifying it back to them when I hear and see people speaking. If you said to me, Brian, can you critique this video of this person showing core abdominals and a triangle on yoga, I would say, yeah, really wanna, really. I don’t even need to see it, just turn it up. Let me hear the language first. Okay, now let me see it. Oh, okay, now they’re barely wearing anything. Okay, I got it. But if you’re truly looking to affect people at a deeper inner level, then you gotta speak their language that fits their how. How does it affect me and how does it make me better? So when I was saying, look the biochargers over my shoulder, here I have this in my office. I do three recs a day. They’re about 12 minutes long. If I’m reading a book or like that book, I was doing some research in there yesterday Because I’m trying to get three things done at once. I don’t have so much time during the day, but when you can get a person, a male, especially because that’s the question you asked me, mostly guys when you can get a male to understand that he or she let’s see what I did there whether he or she can affect, can affect their lives in a positive way by thinking and acting differently. But you need to give them a reason to do it, which is how it makes them better, versus judging. The guy without the shirt on doesn’t speak to how it makes them better because he already thinks that does make them better. But let me tell you, sir, how it makes me feel. On the other end, I tune you out instantly. So your valuable information gets tuned out a lot of times. Listen, I’ve probably tuned people out with okay, every once in a while I drop a bad word. Okay, I get it. I’ve tuned them out with God. This guy’s loud and he loves to hear his own voice. I get it. I’m not for everybody, but the methods that I employ are absolutely for everybody. When you can get your aligned body first to do its job, then every other system, including your emotional reaction to something, changes. When you’re out of alignment and incongruent, then so is your reaction to stressors, and that’ll show up as I push the ball to the right. I suck at golf when I made 50 of these before. I can’t handle stress. I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I don’t hear any we in there. This is just about I, kobe Bryant. The Mamba mentality was not because I’m a failure, it’s I’m gonna outwork everybody, michael Jordan, I’m gonna outwork everybody. But it wasn’t to say to everybody, it was I’m gonna show you and I’m gonna perform at this level. That takes a major shift in psychology, absolutely. I know that was the longest answer to a very short question, but that’s what you get. That’s all right. That’s why we’re here. Long story, long story. 0:56:59 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s all right. That’s why we’re here. Long form podcast, right? Yep, all right, brother, I know you gotta get running. Is there anything else that that you wanted to mention anything you’re up to before we let everybody go, and where’s the best place people can go find you? 0:57:12 – Brian BradleyYeah, guys, you can find me personally and I answer all my own DMs. If you’re confused about something, upset about something, if you wanna know something else, go to Instagram under the Brian Bradley T-H-E. Brian Bradley, because Brian Bradley was taken and the guy wouldn’t sell it to me. You also have at Igotsky method. I do have a URL which would be igotskycom slash podcast. You do that. It’ll move you into a place where you’ll be opting in for some emails from us and then, if you wanna talk to me personally, my team will get you in touch with me. 0:57:43 – Jeff PelizzaroExcellent, Brian. Always a great pleasure, always fun to catch up with you. It’s been way too long and just thank you for coming on helping out the 18-ster on crew and look forward to bringing you on again in the near future, hopefully. 0:57:59 – Brian BradleyNear future would be a good thing, instead of us reading five years or whatever it was that we did because there’s a lot of good information and maybe we open it up to something where you allow some of your insiders to come on and ask questions good idea. 0:58:15 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s a great idea. We will definitely do that, and good luck with the pickleball, my friend. I expect to see some more pickleball videos. 0:58:23 – Brian BradleyYeah, I don’t need luck, I put in the work. 0:58:27 – Jeff PelizzaroSpoken like a true champion. Thanks, Brian. 0:58:30 – Brian BradleyBuddy, love you. Talk to you later. Tell your tech crew thanks for the help too. 0:58:33 – Jeff PelizzaroYou got it. You got it. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for joining us this week on the 18-Strong Podcast with our good friend, Brian Bradley. If you want any more information on this episode any of the links we talked about in the show just go to 18strongcom. It’s episode number 354. You’ll find all the information over there. And don’t forget to check out our partners, linksoul and FirstNorm. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Hayden Buckley – PGA Tour golferHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 353Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us for an exciting conversation with PGA golfer, Hayden Buckley, where we touch on his journey in the world of golf, the challenges he faced, and how he overcame them. Hayden candidly shares his experiences on the PGA tour, the effects of his rib injury, and how the new PGA tour structure impacts his participation in signature events. He also talks about his amazing hole-in-one at the iconic 17th hole at TPC Sawgrass. Listen in as we discuss how Hayden stayed competitive even after a break from the game due to his injury. He reveals the mental and technical aspects that contributed to his success and how his experience on the tour has helped him manage his thoughts and emotions in high-pressure situations. We also examine his golf strategies and his work with Scott Fawcett to optimize his performance. We delve into the balance between consistency and top-five finishes and the role of stats and analytics in golf. In our chat, Hayden unveils his unique approach to the PGA tour, limiting his time on the course and taking more rest days. Finally, he shares the thrilling story behind his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass and his experiences playing in front of large crowds. Hayden’s journey offers valuable insights for every golf enthusiast, so don’t miss this episode! Main Topics (00:03) Hayden Buckley’s Injury and PGA Return Hayden Buckley talks PGA tour structure, his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass, and Lynxhole discounts. (10:47) A Golfer’s Experience in a Tournament Hayden’s success was attributed to his positive mindset, technical game, and Si Woo Kim’s chip-in on the 17th hole. (16:48) Mental Preparation and Handling Pressure Hayden Buckley used mental and golf technique strategies to manage emotions and stay competitive on the PGA tour, taking breaks and practicing differently. (25:31) Reviewing the Golf Performance and Strategy Hayden Buckley’s performance, consistency, top-five finishes, stats, analytics, driving, and rib injury are discussed, with focus on Scott Fawcett’s optimization of off-the-tee performance. (34:29) Improving Golf Performance and Partnership Announcement Hayden Buckley, PGA, is taking a break from the PGA tour, playing nine holes a day, taking Mondays off, and partnering with First Form to promote nutrition and wellness. (39:27) Impressive Partnership and Memorable Golf Moment Hayden Buckley’s success is explored, focusing on his mental and technical game, strategies, and new approach to the PGA tour. (48:38) Crowds’ Impact on Golf Performance Hayden Buckley recounts his PGA tour experience, from his rookie year to the US Open, and his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass, emphasizing the impact of grandstands on performance. (52:33) Golf Crowds and Future Expectations Hayden Buckley shares his experience on the PGA Tour, using crowds to his advantage, adapting to the new structure, and aiming for the top 10 on the FedEx Cup. (01:02:15) Sawgrass Redemption and Season Plans Hayden Buckley, PGA, plans to limit course time to nine holes a day, prepared for tournaments like the Memorial and FedEx Cup, and shared his story of a hole-in-one at Sawgrass. Follow Hayden Instagram: @hbuckley13 Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 353 with Hayden Buckley, pga, to our golfer. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG the podcast, where our mission here is to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everybody deserves to play better, longer. This week we have our buddy, Hayden Buckley, long-time friend of the 18STRONG podcast and 18STRONG community, on our show, and Hayden’s here to talk about his year. Last year he ended up number 60 in the FedEx Cup playoffs but suffered a bit of a rib injury or intercostal injury at the end of the year. That really impacted his year. So we talked about how that impacted his position at the end and then also what the new structure of the PGA tour is going to look like next year and how that impacts his ability to play in tournaments like the signature events we discussed. You know what it means for him for the FedEx Cup playoffs and also what it was like getting back to playing in the FedEx Cup playoffs after that injury. And then we really close out with talking about his insane hole in one that he had at TPC Sawgrass on the iconic number 17 hole, the island green and what that meant to him and really how that’s going to live on and in for me from here on out, so you’re going to enjoy this episode. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG dot com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG dot com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. Hey, buckley, welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast. Buddy, sounds like it’s a little little toasty down there, huh yeah, it’s. 0:02:24 – Hayden BuckleyIt’s nice to be back. I wish I was maybe a little more north right now. I think it was 95 this morning out on the course, so I’m enjoying the AC right now. 0:02:33 – Jeff PelizzaroSo when, when are you back in competition? Now? I know this week is the as we’re recording is the Fortinet, so you’re taking this week off, but what’s what’s the first event? 0:02:43 – Hayden Buckleyyeah, I’m gonna start back at Sanderson farms. You know, the home state event in Mississippi, obviously a lot of good history there. I think that starts maybe first week of October, so we’ve got another two or three weeks. You know, I just thought, you know, I could have played an apple this week honestly, honestly, physically. But you know, with my injury at the end of last year I thought it was probably better. I came back a little early playing Memphis, I think, against doctors orders, I kind of. I may have ignored a few things, but I came back and, you know, felt great, I really I felt great sense, but I thought it’d be good to just get a full rest in and, you know, really hit like five out of seven term is this fall instead of all seven. 0:03:22 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know I’ll have plenty of chances to play good yeah, I mean, given the situation and we’ll talk about your injury in a sec here, but you know you’re going right into the playoffs kind of wanted to try to make a little bit of a run there and see what happens. So tell us, refresh it for anybody that doesn’t know what was going on with you. What happened with the injury, how did it happen? You, what was the whole, the whole thing? 0:03:46 – Hayden Buckleyyeah, you know, I think it was travelers championship I had missed a few cuts in a row. I played well to PGA championship, missed maybe two or three cuts in a row leading up to the travelers and shop four or five under on Sunday. On Friday maybe missed a cut by one, maybe two. And, you know, woke up Saturday morning, decided to fly home to Florida hang out with my wife, our dog, just, you know, a relaxing weekend. After three or four missed cuts. I needed something like that, you know. And woke up Saturday morning 6 am flight, which was pretty miserable, they all are. Got home around noon, you know, kind of complained about some pain in my ribs. You know, figured it was just from traveling, from playing kind of normal stuff for me. And you know, got home that night and I was like man, I still can’t. I still can’t really breathe. Well, it’s still hurting. Something’s kind of off, let’s sleep on it. Woke up some Sunday morning and I was like man, this is, this is the same same injury that I felt yesterday. Nothing’s improved. And sure enough, monday I was in an MRI machine getting it checked out and sure enough, it was a torn intercostal muscle. I guess it’s somewhere. You know it probably better than I do, but somewhere in the rib cage something tore and I was told you don’t really feel it. Maybe that day, because you know, again Friday I felt no pain. I played good golf, shot three or four under, kind of felt like I turned a little page in my struggling of three weeks and, you know, felt nothing at all. And then all of a sudden Saturday I’m like it was. You know we laugh about it now but I was telling my wife like I’m laying down in the bed and I can’t breathe and I’m like, look, I, I promise you I’m not out of shape or you know I’m not, I’m not getting old, I just something. Something is really happening every time I take a deep breath and it was. It was a pretty miserable week. I would say probably seven to ten days of just every breath. You know we were sitting there eating dinner. She made me last one day and I said you got to get out, I got to get out of the room, you got to get out. I can’t even laugh, I can’t sneeze, kind of those little basic things I couldn’t do. But after about ten days and started to feel better, got into Pete’s tea, found these really great doctors down here at HSS West Palm. They were just unbelievable. They I mean they. They told me about six to eight weeks was the time frame to come back and I was looking at the schedule. Like Memphis is in six weeks. You know I’m 42nd on the FedEx Cup playoffs list. You know clearly I’m in the playoffs but I’ve got a good chance of making Eastlake this year with a couple you know a couple good finishes to the year. And so it was pretty tough to hear that six to eight week minimum. But I went to PT, you know, three days a week. First two weeks was kind of relaxing, you know. As you know, you got to let the injury kind of calm down and slowly got back into it. I was a little bit scared but also I told myself you know what’s there to lose, you know I’m gonna do it right, but also I’ve got my card for next year, no matter what. So I mean, obviously I don’t know who knows the the new schedule, but the fall is not as can’t say, it’s not as important. But if you’re in the top 50 the fall really means nothing. And that was kind of where I was at the time in the top 50 and you know. So I kind of went in with like an all or nothing kind of attitude and, you know, started working hard and in about six weeks in I was at Memphis and hadn’t swung a club in six weeks, a little nervous. On Tuesday I went out and played nine holes for the first time and you know I hit some little, you know probably 280-yard drives out there right down the middle and I really felt good but I was nervous, you know, as you can expect, and you know I ended up playing well. It didn’t help that it was 140 degrees in Memphis, Tennessee, at the time. But you know, physically swinging the club I felt okay, but more physically like actually playing golf, walking 18 holes every day, that kind of hurt a little bit, I’d say. After the week, you know, I was saying I finished T40 or whatever I finished, had no chance of making the top 50. Unfortunately I’d fallen back to you know, 55, 56 at the time and needed probably a top 10 to get to the next week and you know it was one of those. Like you know, I got through it, played the playoff event like I wanted to, pretty close to home where I grew up. I’ve got, you know, as much time as I need in this fall to fully heal. So that’s kind of the goal now was let’s do as minimal golf from Memphis until now, which I’ve done. I’ve maybe played three times maybe. So on a club two or three times, let’s do a lot of PT, a lot of work. Now. Just get stronger and skip Napoli, let’s go to Mississippi and so you know, if you look at the calendar, a good, solid two months of rest, maybe a month and a half. I think that’s the recipe for me, at least long term, to get back, have success and at the end of the day I could skip every tournament this fall and still have a season next year. So you know, the goal is to be back in January and be healthy at Sony that’s. We’ve had a little bit of success there in the last two years, so that’s the goal right now. You know, unfortunate, I’m still a little upset about it. You know a lot of it’s my fault, sure, not taking care of my body for whatever reason. You know you can always be better, better food, better rest, you know, whatever it may be, but you know part of the process, I’ve been hurt before. Actually, when we met me and you was pretty much, I would say it was about a year after I got hurt, but my junior year of college I got hurt and ran into you about a year later. So good things come from injury sometimes so. 0:09:28 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you have any any issues with it at all? Do you feel it at all? Is it in the back of your head at all when you’re out there playing? 0:09:34 – Hayden Buckleystill. You know, every once in a while I and I talked to my PT about this. You might have some insight. But you know, if anything I’ve noticed, like a little bit of shortness of breath, you know it’s because it is in that rib region where you’re taking deep breaths and I, you know, I don’t know if there’s just a little damage still up there or what. But you know, I have noticed some issues with some cardio and maybe that’s just the rest that I’ve gotten the last three months and haven’t done as much walking on the golf course. But you know, besides that, not really I’m working out a lot. Even in PT we’re doing a lot of strength stuff, you know. You know, feeling kind of like myself, like I did three months ago, um, but you know I’m not trying to push anything, obviously that’s that’s. The hardest part is I don’t want to swing as hard as I can, like I used to, and, um, you know I’ll get there, though I think I’ll get there. But at the same time I’ve kind of noticed, you know, my iron plays improved a little bit, swinging a little bit smoother. You know, even at Memphis when I was hurt, it was probably the best I’ve driven the ball. I think I was top six or seven and strokes came off the tee that week. Really, I mean, it was some of the best I drove the ball all year and I know I wasn’t hitting it as far, but something, something kind of clicked, I don’t know what it was. Um, I think, yeah, I think we’re on the right track. You know, obviously you want to be cautious and not re-injure yourself. You know that’s the only thing that can keep me out of playing good golf. Um, but you know I’ll have, I’ll have good programs and I’ll be ready to go. 0:11:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’re in about three weeks so, looking back on last season, you mentioned the Sony. You’ve had some success there. Obviously last year came in second place. Um, you know you were right there all day on Sunday. Uh, See Woo Kim came in and shot a 64, I think on that that final day. Um, I mean just just came in but you had I mean I’ve got it written down here four, four rounds, I think, two, 64s, a 67, a 68. So, like, coming in on a Sunday, did you have the lead going into Sunday? 0:11:36 – Hayden BuckleyI believe it was a two, I think it was a two shot lead. I actually had a crazy Saturday round where I didn’t do anything on the front. I think I might have three putted for par on nine, a par five, and I was kind of like, you know, we, we need to do something. But again, I hadn’t played all winter. You know, last winter I got married, went on a honeymoon, we, you know, we moved to Jupiter. I didn’t touch a club all winter and showed up to Sony and it was like here we are with the lead on Sunday. It was kind of it was a little bit bizarre, but I did hole out for eagle on 10 on that Saturday round and then I think I made I want to say I parred the rest of the, the next seven holes maybe, made a bogey somewhere and then made eagle on 18. So I had two eagles and nine holes, took a two shot lead and I’m sitting there going. Man, this is like what’s going on. You know I haven’t played in a month and a half, maybe two months, it’s all kind of. But again my brain was kind of low expectations. You know, I was just kind of out there enjoying it and you know I played good on Sunday. I think I know I buried. I think I buried the first hole in Sunday and so I got off to a pretty decent start and played solid. I just I know down the stretch I made a bogey on 15. I knew I was like that’s gonna kind of hurt me, but I came back and burdened 16 immediately, had a look on 17 and had a look on 18. There you know I laugh. Now I’m working with a putting coach, eric Dietrich, down here in Jupiter, and Actually a guy I went to college with. You know we played college golf together and he’s now a putting coach and I saw him one time before I went to Hawaii. We cleaned up a few things and then we kind of joke, we look back at the videos that were on TV. You know the pot I made on 16. I had the worst stance, the worst Grip, the worst, everything made the pot. And then on 18 I had a pretty awful pot and missed it. But you know we look back at that where we were and I had a great putting week. You know looked awful from a technical standpoint but I had a great putting week and we we laughs about it a lot because now we’ve cleaned up a lot of things, my putting’s improved. I think I went from, you know, 175 and putting last year to maybe 85 this year. So we’ve, we’ve done a lot of great things this year. I’ve been really enjoying that work. But again, you know, I almost won a golf tournament Not looking great putting and I personally felt like I put a terrible, but the stats that I put up pretty good. So you know, I did everything I could. I made 30 footers for birdie all day Sunday and I didn’t lose by any means, I just got beat. That’s kind of the phrase I told myself is the guy shot six on your own Sunday and he was the last group, it’s really. He did chip in on 17, which hurt. I made a pot, I’m not kidding. You was a 10 second window. I made the puddle and 16 Everybody went nuts. You know, I’m kind of my heart’s racing, I’m feeling great. I looked up at the scoreboard and it literally adjusted. You could see it go from T1 to my name, just jumping on top and I’m like alright, this is, this is my time, you know. And then 10 seconds, I’m not, I’m not off the green yet on 16 and everybody goes nuts on 17 and so obviously I assumed he made birdie. I end up seeing the video he chipped in. You know Hit a great chip, made it and then made a good birdie on 18 and I didn’t, so just got beat. You know, looking back on it it set me up for a great you know a great rest of the year. Unfortunately it did keep me out of the Masters and you know a lot of different perks of winning, but I know that I’ll have. I’ll have many more opportunities for that. 0:15:14 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean I pretty much watched that whole, that whole day. It was awesome to be able to sit and watch pretty much every shot that you hit that day right and Text him back and forth with people. You know, people in the 18STRONG crew, they’re all, they’re all Hayden Buckley fans. So I’m getting text left and right and Literally watch you sink that putt and then you’re right, I mean it was within seconds. He chips that, that ball in. But what impressed me so much that day was just watching you and Like the way you carried yourself throughout the day and I want to get some insights into, if you remember, kind of your mindset, just kind of going through that day. You know, knowing that you’re tied for the lead, you’re in the lead, you’re, you’re right there for the lead. But you mentioned that you birdied after one of your bogeys. You had two bogeys that day and you both of those you birdied the very next hole and I thought that that was so cool to see because each time you just kind of bounce back and you’re like all right, right back in it and you know just having that mentality because we’ve all Been in our own games where you know one shot, one bad shot takes you down a rabbit hole. We see it happen into the pros, you know. I’m sure you’ve had experiences out there where you hit a bad shot or two and the round just kind of goes off the Rails. But this one you just bounce right back, you’re right back in it. So what was kind of your thought process through the day? I know you said you hadn’t played in a long time. It was kind of like getting back in the swinging things. But here you are getting ready to possibly win a pj champion or pj tournament and and you know what was it like. 0:16:45 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, I think it’s timing. Honestly, I mean, I really do. I think, it being the first term of the spring may not playing for a month and a half, I had no thoughts. You know I, obviously on Saturday night I had thoughts. I’m sitting there going, oh wow, I’m about to win a golf tournament. This is anything I was nervous everybody is. If they say they’re not, they’re crazy. And you know, I kind of fight that with myself, thinking like you’re not nervous, don’t worry about it. But it’s like man, just embrace the nerves. I Think the timing of it helped, you know, helped and hurt, right like I. You know it’s hard to find confidence when you haven’t played in a month and a half because there’s some shots that you need to hit that you know, if you haven’t worked on it in a month and a half, like you’re just swinging it hoping it works out. That happened to me on number 11. I made bogey on Sunday, a little par 3, you know I hit a shot. It was into the wind and I tried to hit a shot a little too hard, kind of forgot like hey, man, if it’s 185 into the wind, we probably can’t hit a seven. You know I kind of just from lack of, not experience but lack of playing for a month and a half. But at the same time and I’m a guy that I don’t believe in practicing every single day I do believe in, you know, trying to get better every day, but I don’t believe in like I have to swing a golf club every single day to get better. I mean, look at me, I’ve sat on the couch the last Four months and worked on my body and I feel better than I ever have golf lies. But again, I think timing, where you know that bow, you know Levin, came from lack of playing, but the birdie on 12 came from, you know, my head. I’m not pissed off, I’m just like let’s just send dry. It’s kind of a short hole guys lay up on. I said, look, let’s just send driver down there. Who cares, I’ve got a flip wedging, I make birdie and I think it was a little bit of Not playing for a month and a half. But also, you know that tournament being the first of the spring, everything’s kind of fresh because I mean, I’m not gonna lie, you know, look at my schedule. After that, I did nothing For a month and a half. I did absolutely nothing and it was frustrating. There was several rounds where, just like that birdie on or that bogey on, 11, I had a shot like that early in a round and my whole round was over and that was coming. And I’m you know I’m top 30 on the FedEx Cup. Whoa, what am I upset about? Like, if I miss a cut? You know I’m still top 30 on the FedEx Cup. You know I’m not fighting for my card. I that second at Hawaii almost locked up. I’d have to go look back at it, but it almost locked up a spot in Memphis. You know it’s 300 FedEx Cup points. I finished fifth in. Japan in the fall and though you know the fall was still counting in last year. So I’m almost in the playoffs in January and obviously you don’t know that you don’t want to just settle for that, but I do think you know you look at those two months after there were some struggles. So again, I don’t think there’s a secret code to you know, guys tell about sports psychologist and these mental people, whatever. I think I think it’s a little bit different. I think you know you’re gonna have moments that go high and low. I think managing them, managing them. And you know really, you know really turn in those like you know, if you look back at missing a cut by one or two and yeah, you’re pissed off, you know making that cut by one or two. Instead, it’s not like, oh, let’s turn this bogey into winning the golf tournament, let’s just turn this bogey into making a cut, getting 20 FedEx cut points and moving on. But again, I also am a guy that thinks missing cuts helps. I missed like six out of seven cuts last summer Before the us open and finished 12th, you know. So it’s like it’s a weird marriage of like I don’t believe in. You have to be the most positive person in the world on the golf course and if you make a bogey you should smile walking off the green. I’m actually the opposite. When I make a bogey, I want to be a little bit upset, but I want to use it. Like you said in Hawaii, I want to use that to make a birdie on the next hole. I you know a lot of people have said you know, by the time you hit your next shot, be over it Whatever. There’s a lot of things that happens when you’re in contention on a Sunday. You know your your mind’s racing if you’re not careful. And I think it’s just more experience. The more times you’re in those situations, the more you learn from it. You know from a for a regular Amateur that’s playing every day like if they’re like I want to break 80. I actually had a buddy of mine text me. I think he broke 80 for the first time, maybe two weeks ago. Uh, but the week before that he was saying man, I shot 81 today and I tripled the last hole and I said, well, what were you thinking about? and he was like man, I was thinking about breaking 80 on the last hole, 100%, and you know it’s fun to do that because, like in the same way, like I’m over here, like I want to shoot 64, and you know it’s not the same scores, but we’re all trying to do the same thing. And you know, I said why were you thinking about that? And he said, well, I’ve never done it. And I said, yeah, I’ve never won a pga tour event. But you know I was thinking about it coming down the stretch and I do think you know, did it affect me on 18 at Hawaii, when I was thinking about, hey, a birdie can win you a golf term or get you in a playoff. I don’t think it hurt me, I think it just made me realize the moment I was in. And you know I hit a great tee shot, a decent second shot, a pretty good chip, and missed a putt. You know kind of life goes on and it just so happened that that putt was for, you know, the win or for the playoff. You know I made two bogeys on that side. So you can look back again. I think timing of everything is important. You know when you make a bogey, if you make a bogey on 18 versus on 1,. You know everything’s different. So I think handling being able to handle each bogey the same way for me Is important, you know. Or each miss putt, you know the putt on 18, it’s no different than the putt I missed on 17. You know I missed a putt on 17 for birdie made par and I was pretty happy walking off the green. So again, it’s hard in tournament play to you know. Look at every little putt is the same, but at the end of the day they all are the same and they all count. So but mentally, I think you know Staying calm does help. But you look at Tyro Hatten and some other guys that are known to you know kind of express themselves. They’ll tell you this. John Rom, I play with him several times and he’ll tell you. You know he likes to express himself a little bit when he’s angry, but he won’t let it affect him on the next hole. And I think you know nobody really knows what’s going on inside of a player. I know I hear I watched a lot of golf, actually believe it or not, while I was hurt. I watched. 0:23:22 – Jeff Pelizzaroyou know this for me, I don’t watch golf at all. 0:23:24 – Hayden BuckleyUh, I wanted to watch a little bit. You know, I just want to watch the playoff. I want to watch eastlake, just kind of see how the courses were playing and smaller fields and guys got upset and they’re guaranteed to make $10 or $15 million and they’re still upset at making a bogey on the third hole of the tournament. That’s just how we are. We’re competitors and everybody wants to win. Everybody wants to play well. So I do think guys work hard mentally. I work hard mentally in different areas. Some guys like sports psychologists, some people like therapists, some people like me. I like to just talk to my wife sometimes and she does a great job of just calming me down a little bit when I’m upset after a round. That’s the hardest part is forgetting it, especially during the day, getting to the next day and having kind of a clean slate. I feel like I did that pretty well in Hawaii, but again I lost it for those two months after Hawaii. Maybe a little bit of extra pressure, like hey, all of a sudden you’re a top player, you’re in the top 30 on the FedEx, like Eastlake is calling you in six months. But it’s like, how are you thinking about six months from now when it’s January. So I think I got caught up a little bit in that last year. But again I’ll learn from that this year and not let it happen again. 0:24:45 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you look back on last year as a whole, you mentioned you had several missed cuts. You had some really great tournaments, a couple T5s, us Open, obviously the second place in the Sony Overall, and I know we know how the end finished out with the injury and everything. But when you look back at that, where do you say? What do you look at and say are you first of all happy with the way that it went, or are there things where you’re like I could clean this up a little bit? I need to clean this up a little bit. This I’m really happy about? Do you break it down like that and look at it that way, or just kind of yeah, 100%. 0:25:24 – Hayden BuckleyI think it’s probably like any business out there. You look at your end of the year statistics and say this is what we need to improve. My first year on tour was hey, you’re literally 180th in putting and there’s not 180 guys playing tournament. What’s going on? I think a lot of that had something to do with ball striking. I hit it really well, maybe had a lot more 30 footers than most guys. Whatever it may be, a lot of those things matter, but we looked at that last year. We cleaned that up again. We said if I’m ever a top 100 putter, I’m going to be a top 50 player on the tour every year. There’s no doubt. This year, obviously there’s disappointment, but I kept my job. I competed, I had chances to win. I think Hilton Head was one of my better tournaments. I really had a chance to. I think I birdied two or three of the last four holes on Sunday and really had a chance to do something. I had a close look on 18-2, especially in the elevated event that was coming off of a T9. The week before too, I had really great showings. But to me it’s kind of a balance of do I want consistency where I’m top 20 in every week or do I just want to have five top fives? It’s kind of a weird balance where you look at a guy like JT who I think he made almost every cut. He played in and didn’t make playoffs. He probably felt better each week on Saturday than I did because I missed about half my cuts. It’s kind of a weird balance of are you better off playing good two or three weeks out of the year or do you want to play? Obviously you play like Scottie Scheffler in top 12 almost every week. I think that takes care of itself. I would say, looking back, I’m impressed with the way I played. I’m a little disappointed Again. I think my strokes gained approach. My iron play was a little off. My wedge play was a little off. If you look at it I know it’s pretty deep in the hundreds, like maybe 150. Not good statistically speaking, especially with how I drove the ball. There’s no doubt that I’m not the biggest guy out there, I’m not the longest guy, but my strokes gained off the tee has been top 10, I think, two years in a row. 0:27:41 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ve got it Eighth strokes gained off the tee, which I thought was cool to hear. When you were saying that you were driving the ball about as well as you had in Memphis. It’s like that says a lot because you’re consistently up there with the tops. 0:27:57 – Hayden BuckleyRight, that’s what I was worried about was how am I supposed to make this driver swing with, if you talk about your rib, how am I supposed to make this bigger driver swing and really hit it? I was able to and it worked out. The drivers is just freed me up for so many opportunities to play. Well, your approach is not as good as it has been and your puddings improved. I’m almost sitting there waiting again. Going back to all the missed cuts, I drove the ball Napa. Actually I have this thing with Napa where I was first in strokes gained off the tee last year at Napa and missed the cut. I drove the ball better than anybody in the field and I missed the cut by a lot. It can be a lot of things, but bottom line have to improve some wedge play, a little bit of iron play. I’d say my long irons were pretty good, long par-3s. I’m making some birdies on into par-5s and two. I’m not having much trouble, just some of the shorter holes, the easier holes that guys are making birdies on. I’m not. I’m still competing making birdie from 200 yards. It’s just a matter of time, I think, until the wedges clean up a little bit. I’ve already seen improvement too, which is great. The wedges get cleaned up, the short irons get cleaned up. There’s a recipe for a lot of good golf coming, if I can get that handle. 0:29:16 – Jeff PelizzaroHow much are you guys looking at the stats and who helps you with that throughout the season? Are you looking at that and then saying, okay, this is what I need to go work on, or are you just kind of more feeling out what you need to practice and work on week to week in the season? I’m sure off season is a little different. 0:29:33 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, the tour has their database of stats that we can look at. I’ve done some of the decade stuff as well with Scott Fawcett. I think I try not to look a ton. I do let some of my team look at it and diagnose it and say this is what you really need to work on. But I also think that week to week can be so different, different grasses. I could have gotten the bad waves. Maybe I wasn’t feeling as good that week physically. I think it’s not like oh, this week I played terrible, my irons were awful, let’s go make a change. I might have just had a bad week swinging it. It’s not like if I ever have a bad week driving the ball, it’s like, hey, you have about 99% of the weeks Pretty good driving, so just kind of flush it. But I haven’t hired a stats guy officially. There’s a lot of them out there that they look at your stats every day. They come out with you and practice rounds and kind of say this is how you should play the course. But I use Scott Fawcett again with Decade. He maps out courses and kind of tells you how to optimize your off the tee especially. I think that’s one of the reasons why I’m top 10 in strokes getting off the tee is because I know exactly what club I’m hitting and I know he tells me why I should hit it. And usually it’s driver almost every time, especially the way I hit driver. But a lot of times you might say I need to lay up to 160 here because there’s a bunker on the right at 285. But based on his little program that he’s got, he’d say look, you hit driver, you aim it at this tree and you hit it every single day, no matter what, and I’ve noticed that it’s just freed me up and led to a lot more opportunities. Now, if I could just hit it closer to the hole. He can’t really fix that unless I start hitting a little bit better. But I do think everybody’s important. Everybody’s different. Some guys need every little thing detailed. You know, look at like a guy like Matt Fitzpatrick who’s got you know, he’s got his little notebook. I’ve seen it firsthand. He’s writing down notes every shot he hits and it’s like that’s different. You know, that’s something I don’t know if I could ever do that. I don’t know if I’m disciplined enough to do it, but you know, I used to do something similar in practice and I think I’m going to incorporate that in practice now just to kind of make sure what I’m working on is working. But you know, I’m kind of an easygoing, Like I’m just kind of getting out there and feeling it and trusting the people around me to tell me what to do. But you know, now that I’ve had so much downtime I’ve been looking a lot more into my stats and where I can improve. And I think you know I’m even doing a club fitting in two weeks with a guy, scott Felix, in Memphis, tennessee. So he’s just a club fitter that I’m just going to go in and say let’s make sure my arms are working and, you know, maybe adjust some lies and loss. And you know, never been to him before so kind of an unbiased just see where we are and see if we can improve. You know, again I hit the. I said don’t touch driver, don’t worry. I did tell him that. But I said look, let’s you know if we need to just swap out the four and the five iron for a different, you know a different style. You know they make. You know Tileless makes all kind of clubs now. But you know, whatever we have to do, let’s do it and get it settled before the start of this fall season, so then I can have confidence. So I’m looking forward to that. And just you know I recommend everybody do that, I think every, especially any anybody buying clubs. You know we’re lucky to not have to do that. But getting that sitting, I’ve never really had one. Really, to be honest with you, I haven’t. I’ve been out to TPI now two or three times so I guess technically that is a club fitting. But usually when I go I’ve kind of already had my clubs. You know I’ve played the same clubs for five years now. You know the AP2s and now the T100s. They’re all pretty similar but I’ve played the same stuff almost for five years. So you know we’ll get stuff figured out and hopefully by Sanderson we’ll be ready to play. 0:33:40 – Jeff PelizzaroSo now that you’re, you know, through your second year on the tour, what you know. What were some of the differences this year and what are you looking forward to next year, now that you’re not you know you’re not the rookie out there anymore, you’re, you’ve been out there, you know the ropes, you know a lot of the courses. Now what are some of the advantages of now being out there a few times, as opposed to the first year you went out there? 0:34:03 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, you know I think I don’t have to get out there and play the Monday Pro-Am every week. And you know, a lot of times as a rookie what people don’t understand is you don’t get to play the Wednesday Pro-Am. You know usually it’s limited to. You know it’s all based off FedEx the last year and you know as a rookie you’re down at the bottom. So you know Wednesdays were pretty much just practice days my whole year until you know I had a pretty good start to my rookie year so I got in some Pro-Am’s. But you know Monday and Tuesday are kind of your days to see the golf course physically and play it. And you think about travel. If you’re playing on Sunday you’re flying out Sunday night, maybe Monday morning you’re tired. You know I took several Mondays off last year and had to play 18 holes on Tuesday because I wasn’t in the Pro-Am and or two years ago, my rookie year. So even last year I saw you know I’m in the Pro-Am almost every week. You know Mondays I’m taking off a lot more. Maybe I’ll go hit a few putts or I’ll go to the gym. You know Tuesday’s kind of my day to play nine holes. That was kind of my rule which you know I thought I was doing everything I could not to get hurt. You know, unfortunately I still did. But you know I said I’m never playing more than nine holes in a day and I’m still keeping that this year. I’m not going to play more than nine. You know, maybe a rare circumstance there’s a new tournament this year in Mexico. I think we’re going to Cabo instead of MyCova. You know I might have to play 18 holes if there’s bad weather. You know whatever it may be, but nine holes a day take a lot more Mondays off. You know Pro-Am’s on Wednesday. You know most of the courses now. I think I even saw that last year. I’ve seen some of these courses once. You know I remember the pin locations. I remember places that I hit it. You know I’ll have even more of that this year. You know you can imagine Sanderson Farms. I’ve played the course a million times now but I have a lot of memories from the tournament as well, where I don’t have to go out there Monday, tuesday and Wednesday and play nine or 18 holes. I can go practice, I can relax, I can go to the gym, really take care of my body a lot more now and, you know, play a little less golf. But I think something I’m looking forward to would be you know, really I feel like I’ve really kind of put my mark in the tour now, where I feel comfortable. You know you’re rookie here, you’re not sure what’s going on. You tell yourself I belong out here, but you got to prove it. It doesn’t matter if you’re an all-American college or you’re number one in the world in college, you’re amateur. I don’t care if you won this tournament. You got to go out there and prove it, and most of the top guys do, but some don’t. And so the first year’s tough. That second year you’re kind of going all right. I got to have a better year than last year because I was a rookie last year. You know you got to do better and I saw that. And so now, on my third year, I really feel like, well, I guess the end of my second year into the third year. I really feel like it’s time to really submit myself. As you know, this is my job. I’m one of the best ball strikers out here. I’m going to have that confidence forever and it’s time to go compete in tournaments and not just be. You know I get funny tweets every once in a while. That’s like, or whatever you call them now post. 0:37:24 – Jeff PelizzaroX, I don’t know what they call it. 0:37:25 – Hayden BuckleyBut I’ll get some stuff now where it’s like I don’t even know who you are, like I’m tired of watching you on TV and you know funny stuff Like that doesn’t bother me at all, but you know it’s time to kind of go out there and really compete more. I think you know, when I show up each week, I know now that I’m pretty much one good swing away from having a chance to win a golf tournament. And you know, those first two years, even last year, there was tough moments and I think everybody goes through it. But you know I think we’re really turned to page. You know, after this injury, I think more focus is on the body getting stronger, getting back to, you know, 18STRONG, and I really think I’m going to go, I’m going to go to the next level physically with my body. I know that. I know that kind of the same feeling I had out of college and you know I think it’s going to result in a lot of good golf. 0:38:23 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’sa nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition, and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. It really is a dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices, but we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it is a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually letting them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis. So you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game. The protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG, and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to firstformcom that’s P-H-O-R-M dot com forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So you had you know, speaking of going from rookie year to your second year and starting to even have people kind of recognize you a lot more, getting some funny tweets and stuff like that. You had a pretty special moment this year that really got the name Hayden Buckley out there. I’ve actually got a little prop here in the office. I don’t know if you can see that. 0:40:45 – Hayden BuckleyOh, I did that. It’s a little. 0:40:47 – Jeff PelizzaroThe whole in one on the Island Green at TPC Sawgrass. Tell me about that whole moment, tell me how crazy that was. Our buddy TJ was there to actually see it in person. I mean it was it was nuts and you were all over the news, you were on ESPN, you were everywhere that week. So tell me about that week, but specifically that moment. 0:41:13 – Hayden BuckleyIt’s funny. I actually had a friend of mine send me a picture of it on the TV at a bar last night. I guess it just popped up randomly as a highlight. You know it was. It was an early round. You know, I think I was third off, maybe on the back nine to start, which I mean the back nine out there is pretty brutal. It’s not really where you want to start in the morning. But it was calm. It was kind of cloudy, you know. I think it must have been somewhat cold if I was wearing a jacket. But you know I had a decent start, I was playing solid and I get up to 17. I think I may be three putted. I feel like I could have three putted for par on 16 or made par and I wasn’t very happy. Well, again, you know, not super happy walking off that 16 pole because that’s kind of a easier birdie on that side. And uh, you know, obviously that tournament’s huge. You want to play well and I walk up to 17. It’s a little front right pin. I want to say I watched I can’t remember who hit before me, but I watched two different shots and I said you know what? I think I need to just hold this ball. Maybe the wind was off the right and I just need to hold this little pitch and wedge. I think it was 132 to the hole. I need to hold this pitch and wedge just right at the middle of the green. I don’t even care where it goes, just give me on the green, give me a putt. You know I hit it in. When I first hit it I thought I hit it a little hard. You know, a pitch and wedge is usually 140. So you don’t really want to go on the back of that green and have that tough putt down the hill. And you know I watched it land and I thought, you know, maybe it’ll kind of trickle back down and it was softer. I can’t remember if it rained one day. It rained, but I think it was softer out there. So it kind of spun back a little bit. And I’m watching it the guy you can watch the video. The guys are kind of walking. You know most guys are walking to the, to the green, and I’m kind of peeking between them and you know it’s looking pretty good and it disappeared and I honestly didn’t know if it went in or not. It was kind of hard to tell, but I just assumed it did and I went nuts. You know, I really kind of forgot about everything that was. I don’t really care what’s proper in golf. You know, it’s like you make a hole in one on 17,. You should jump in the lake. I thought about it. Maybe it feel it was warmer. But you know, I really thought, man, this is like this, is it? This is like a dream and I think it’s payback for if you pull up. I had a tweet somewhere at Phoenix that year on. You know, 16 is pretty chaotic at Phoenix. I hit one about two feet and missed it and I’ve never felt so much pain. I actually had a longer putt coming back and I just went over and tapped it in. Luckily it went in for par. But maybe it’s a little payback from you know, or a little redemption from that kind of embarrassing two-footer I missed. But no, it was pretty incredible and I think the best part about it was I got it up on 18, hit it right down the middle. You know, I couldn’t feel my arms, I was still going nuts. There was only about 50 people there. It was kind of funny. I got a funny story about that. But I get up on 18 and hit it down the middle, hit it to like 20 feet, make the putt for birdie and I’m thinking, wow, that’s got to be 300 through 17 and 18. It’s got to be maybe a record and I think it was probably tied, you know, probably close to a record whatever. And then I make the turn to one. I hit it to five feet and make birdie and I’m like man, I’m about to win this tournament and we won’t talk about what it. We won’t talk about what happened after. And honestly, people you know a lot of people ask me, you know, did you get too excited or what? And I said no, you know, I made two birdies after. You know, I had about a 10 footer on number two for birdie. I missed, and then the rest of the course just kind of beat me up. I hit a couple of good shots. They got in some bad places, made some bogies and then, sure enough, I’m there on Friday and I still shot, you know, even par one under. I can’t remember what I shot on Thursday, but all of a sudden I’m just playing a new round on Friday and it’s like there’s a missed cut, you know. And that’s again going back to some of the tough rounds I had, and but that moment again you mean my wife actually joked about it we said you know what, I guess we’ll take a one on 17 with a missed cut over, you know, maybe making the cut and finishing 40th, you know we’ll just, we’ll take. I didn’t have my game, wasn’t there to compete that week. Obviously it looked like I was going to win. But you know the way I played the rest of the way. I just didn’t have it that week and it’s part of it. But a funny story is I was in dining on Thursday afternoon and you know this is nine o’clock in the morning when I played. So there was only probably 50 people. You’ve seen the video. There’s not that many people. They were all kind of behind the tee box, nobody was on the hill, nobody was in the grandstands. Yet John Rom comes up to me where he’d been lunch. He sits down and he goes hey, man, nice, one on 17. I said Thanks, man. You know he’s been really, really nice to me over the last two years. And he looks at me and he says he says you know, I was on the front line somewhere and when I heard it, you know I thought somebody just made birdie. It wasn’t very loud. I just said Thanks, appreciate it. But I said yeah, it’s probably because there was 50 people on there. You know, it’s just. I mean, you know, our buddy, tj, my wife, a couple of our friends were there. I mean, besides that there wasn’t a lot of people there and it was kind of to me it felt loud. I couldn’t hear anything because I was just blacked out. But he kind of laughed about it. He said yeah, it wasn’t as loud as I thought it would be for a whole in one. 0:46:35 – Jeff PelizzaroI said Thanks, john, appreciate it. 0:46:37 – Hayden BuckleyBut that was no. He took a little jab at me but you know it’s funny. I did an interview after the round and they brought up my scorecard and did the thing and I said, yeah, let’s just ignore this. Back nine here and you know, like the five over on the back let’s ignore that, but the one was nice. So you know, I’ll remember it forever. It was. It was, I think when I show back up there next year I’m looking for another one. You know I’m looking because that feeling was probably the best I felt all year. Better than Sony, better than the fifth that Hilton had, better than Japan. I mean, it was the best feeling I’ve had all year. It was incredible. 0:47:14 – Jeff PelizzaroI can’t imagine. I remember watching it over and over and over again on all the replays and just thinking like I mean as a young kid, a golfer, like there’s not many things that are more iconic than that green to be able to go out and get a whole in one on that. And people go. You know just the world kind of. I mean literally went crazy viral everywhere. So and we’re going to see it for the rest of time. Right Like that, that highlight will be will be there all the time. Funny story. I was there on Sunday with TJ and we were sitting in the grandstand and we got to see I think it was maybe Smalley they got a hole in one on Sunday. 0:47:52 – Hayden BuckleySmalley, I think he did yeah. 0:47:54 – Jeff PelizzaroSo first of all, tj saw two hole in ones, you know, with his eyes on that hole that weekend, which was nuts. But when Smalley hit his, it bounced and just hopped in the cup and it was like quiet because nobody we were like where’d that go? Like couldn’t tell if it went in the water. And then it was like a slow clap that you know. I think that actually went in the hole. But as that was happening, so that Sunday you know the grandstands are full now and I remember sitting there thinking about you, thinking like hitting a shot in front of all of these people, like just thinking about how nervous I would be. I got to play at the next day and there was nobody watching and I dunked mine in the water, but still like nervous you know like and it’s like I can’t imagine what’s it been like for you now that you’ve been on these big stages? You’ve been able to play, like at Phoenix 16th hole, you know some of these big, bigger tournaments, the US Open, and you’ve had some crowds around you. Now you’ve played in some, some pairings where you’ve got people following. Does that affect you at all? Are you able to kind of zone out and just do your thing? 0:48:55 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, it’s funny, I think actually the smaller crowds are almost worse. You know, I think you know I had, you know I probably had 30 or 40 people come out at Memphis for the playoff event and it’s almost like you can see everybody that’s there, especially when you know them. You know it’s almost feeling I’m thinking back to Cornfury. You got like three or four people out there, sometimes literally sometimes there’s just my wife out there and it’s like I almost feel worse when I’m by myself playing and there’s no one out there than I do. You know, walking up to, I’ll never forget Phoenix. Two years ago, my rookie year, I was the last man in the field at you know Waste Management and I get paired with Ricky and John Rom because you know Web Simpson pulled out or something and it was you just take their play. You know when the T-Towns come out Tuesday, if anybody pulls out, you’re taking their place, if you’re the first alternate. So I show up on that T-Box and I mean you can’t see the, you can’t see grass going, you can only see the fairway going down the whole first hole and you know, as a rookie, I’m sitting there going. This is going to be a great experience, obviously, and you know I was nervous for the first few holes, but you get settled into it and then you have more experiences like that. The US Open on Saturday I’m in the second to last group with John Rom again, and you know, again I can’t see any grass anywhere. I’ll never forget walking up 18 and like pitch black, dark we teed off at like four o’clock in the afternoon for some reason and walking up that tee in Boston or that green and you can’t see anything. I couldn’t find my wife I couldn’t find. You know, you couldn’t see anything. It’s just almost like a blur, and I think that’s a good thing for me now, as I see more of a blur than I do. Wow, this is such a big crowd. To me it’s like man, it’s kind of like a I hate to say a backboard, but it’s almost like there’s just a backboard around you. It almost frames it for you a little bit better. You know, I’ve always said grandstands people almost benefit us more as pros than you know. Next week I go to Tupelo, my hometown, and go play some golf and it’s a little bit harder to frame some of your shots because you’re not aiming at grandstands or you’re not. You know I had a shot of Memphis that actually hit a guy. You know I was in the trees right on 17 and I was trying to snap, hook one around the trees and kind of bring it into the green and caught a flyer and you know, out of rough balls don’t turn and hit a guy in the shin and kicked it in the fringe. I mean 30 yards left onto the fringe and I two putted for par and I’m sitting there going. You know, if this was a normal day, that ball is hitting the cart path, it’s bouncing probably out of bounds into a house and so there’s a lot of advantages, I think, to play and turn them into golf and having these crowds and I think maybe that’s why I enjoy it so much. I think you know you’re still going to feel nerves. I mean there’s no doubt you know Sanderson Farms. I don’t think there will be 100,000 people on the first tee, but you know you get a big crowd, especially for Mississippi guys and you know a lot of it. When they’re rooting for you really helps. You know a lot of the times they’re, you know probably there for you know John or somebody else, and that’s fine too. But I think you get a lot of support. You know you get a lot of guys that. You know I had a kid. Actually the other day me and my wife were vacationing in Amelia Island, florida, a little north of Jacksonville, played golf, got done. One of the bad guys said hey, man, just wanted to say like I was there on 17 at Sawgrass. I was like I just walked up, we weren’t even looking, we don’t know who you are. Larry said that to my face. He said we didn’t know who you were, but we walked up to 17,. You made it and it was the best experience of my life and I was like hey, thanks, man, I appreciate it. But again, you know it’s. There’s a lot of people out there that really care about golf. I saw that a lot in Japan. You should. The crowds in Japan were ridiculous. I mean it was. They didn’t care who you were, they were lined up on every fairway and they clapped for bogies. You know it’s like you make a bogey, they’re clapping for you. So I’ve had a lot of good experiences with big crowds, you know, with people. You know you get heckled a lot too right, you’re going to get some, some people that are probably gambling on you that week and if you’re not playing well, they’re not happy, and I’ve had plenty of that. But I do think seeing these bigger crowds it’s you’re not motivation to want to play good, but it’s one of those. Like you know, we are entertainers. In a sense we have a product to put out, but it’s. It’s pretty fun here in Roars when you make putts and you get Roars and you know it’s a different feeling than you get when you’re coming up in college and cornfairy and amateur golf where there’s not really anybody watching you. So it’s, you know, a part of the big stage. I think it’s every sport right, high school football, you got, you know, 2000 people in the stands, and then you get to college it’s 50, and then you get in the pros even more, everything kind of graduates into bigger crowds and bigger pressure. And I just think from my experience now I kind of thrive off that a little bit more, where you know maybe some tournaments that are smaller I’m not getting, you know, I have to watch myself to not, you know, fall into kind of that hole of like I’m not excited to play this tournament because there’s not 20,000 people out here, like who cares, you know, like even like Sawgrass on 17,. Like there’s 40 people out here but let’s make a hole in one. You know who cares, so that I think it’s balancing that and really, you know using the crowds as an advantage instead of thinking I hope I don’t mess up. You know, I think a rookie year. I’m sitting there going. There’s so many people watching me, I hope I don’t mess up the bottom line. There’s TV cameras watching you and there’s millions of people watching. So you know, at the end of the day, everybody’s going to see what you do. So you just got to own what you do. And you know I learned that quick at Phoenix when I missed a two footer. I went viral for missing a two foot putt and you should read the comment. You can still look at the tweet and read the comments. I got some stuff for it, but you know I shot I think I shot a buggy free 69 on Saturday in Phoenix. So, like I don’t care, I mean I played a great round of golf, I just missed a putt at the wrong time. So, yeah, I’ve enjoyed the experience of getting to. You know, play in front of crowds and most of the time it’s very positive and enjoyable experience. 0:55:10 – Jeff PelizzaroSo now that you’re, I think you finished up at number 60 on the FedEx Cup. So moving into next year’s season you mentioned, obviously some things have changed with the schedule. What impact does that have on you where you’re sitting? And then also, kind of, what are some of your expectations that you’re putting on yourself for next year? 0:55:30 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, you know, I think if you look at the new, the fall series they’re calling it now like the top 50 guys are kind of, you know, knocked out of the FedEx Cup. They’re locked into the signature events next year and you know that was the goal, obviously and didn’t work out. But now we have something, really all that. You know I’ve got my card for next year. Making it to playoffs guarantees that I’m in the players championship, got my full card. You know every event that’s not a signature event. So I’ve got a full schedule. It’s great. But I do have, you know, the top 10. Top 10 on the FedEx at the end of this fall, which you know I’m number 10, you would call it being number 60. That 50 through 60, those guys are guaranteed to play. I believe it’s Pebble Beach and Tigers event at Riviera, I think, those two signature events. So that’s kind of what you’re playing for. Otherwise your only way getting into that is playing well, like the three weeks before. So they kind of made it to where they call it like the, the swing five, I think they call it. You know where you play, maybe Sony open, american Express and what’s the other one, torrey Pines, and then the top five guys from those three events qualify into, just from those three. It doesn’t matter where you’re on the FedEx, the top three guys from those five events that aren’t in Pebble get in Pebble. So that’s kind of how they’re, you know they’re, they’re playing in the schedule to be like the hottest players at the time. Get these signature events. You know the top 50 guys have nothing to worry about. So at least, if anything, this fall I’m playing for. You know, obviously I’m just playing to gain confidence, to play well. I’ve been hurt for three months, kind of get back into flow, but also playing for that top 10. Because I’d like to. You know pebble beaches of elevated event this year and you know Riviera is Riviera, I love Riviera so much. Play to USM there, want to get back there, and also an elevated event. So I’m playing for those two events pretty much this fall. You know, obviously whatever happens I want to be in those. If not, then I’ll start my season at the Sony, you know, and again just start back from zero and and hopefully have another experience like Sony Last year, maybe a little better. But you know, just, I’m going to play a lot, I’m going to play as much as I can, obviously, with, you know, kind of built in off weeks now with these elevated events. If you’re not in them, you’re going to take those weeks off. So kind of feels like a rookie year again where I’m not getting in currently. You know, we’ll, we’ll, obviously we can answer this again in the fall, but I’m currently not getting in. There’s not guaranteed that I’m in the elevated events, all of them. And so you know I’m going to approach it kind of like rookie year. I’m going to play when I can, take advantage when I can and you know, wherever it takes me. I’ll be back in Memphis next year and and have a have a better chance of getting to Eastlake than I did this year. 0:58:33 – Jeff PelizzaroWell we’re. We’re expecting it on on our end for sure. You know the 18STRONG crew is pulling for Buck and we’re looking forward to seeing some more fireworks this year from your game. That’s definite. I want to finish up just a couple of little fun questions for you, a little different than the ones we normally do, because we’ve asked you those on previous podcasts. But is there any any kind of a book or anything that you’ve been reading lately, anything golf related, non golf related, that you would recommend to the 18STRONG audience? 0:59:02 – Hayden BuckleyOh gosh. 0:59:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t read a book in a while. 0:59:04 – Hayden BuckleyJeff, I need to. I really, I actually really need to meet my wife we’re talking about the other day, what’s that? There is one book that I do I will. From a golf perspective, every shot counts. Now I read that in college. I know I was recommended to read it. I think I need to reread it. It’s very it’s. It’s a pretty influential book, just from a golf world. It’s nothing else, but it’s going to teach you some things about you know golf statistics and all that stuff. So I I love that book. I can’t remember the author, but great, great book. 0:59:34 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat are you and your bride watching these days? On Netflix or one of the other streaming services? 0:59:40 – Hayden BuckleyWe’re, we’re big. You know we’ve been watching Bravo, the channel Bravo, so Below Deck, below Deck is one of our favorites. It’s kind of a little reality. It’s like chartering yachts, you know. It’s like their reality show and it’s. We’ve been hooked on that pretty hard. And you know I’ve watched Lincoln Lawyer was probably. I just came out with a new season. That was one of my favorite. I watched the first season. It just came out with season two, I believe. So I finished that in about a day and a half. My wife was gone for the weekend two weeks ago and I just sat on the couch watch football and Lincoln Lawyer, so really, enjoyable time. 1:00:18 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s is there? A course like a bucket list course that you have on your radar, that you want to go play, that you haven’t been able to play yet? 1:00:27 – Hayden BuckleyYou know somebody mentioned to me there, dave Pine Valley. That’s always been one that you know, I think. I know I’ve heard it so much about it, I’ve seen pictures, and you know Cyprus is another one that you know. Actually my putting coach said he was playing it next week or in a few weeks. He said he’s going out there to do a little five course thing with a buddy of his and so I’m pretty jealous of that. But those two are those two are up there. 1:00:56 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat is, or has there been, a kind of significant purchase that you’ve made? You know you’ve had a chance to make a few bucks. Now what has Hayden Buckley kind of spent maybe a little more on than he would have in the past? 1:01:09 – Hayden BuckleyOh gosh, let’s, let’s go with, let’s go with a home. 1:01:13 – Jeff PelizzaroHow about that? 1:01:14 – Hayden BuckleyA house. Well, I won’t disclose where it is, but there, yeah, a house purchase is definitely a big, a lot bigger of a purchase than I ever thought it would be. There’s a lot more to it. You know, I’ve enjoyed that process, that home buying process. You live in a condo or an apartment your whole life, you know, since college. Really, it’s pretty fun to finally, you know, get close to moving into the home. But the whole process of buying one and everything that comes after is it’s been fun, but it’s there’s a lot of work behind the scenes. But you know, again, I’ve been hurt for a few months. I’ve been able to, I’ve been able to do a lot of work on that. 1:01:52 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s the worst shot you hit last year? 1:01:55 – Hayden BuckleyNo, gosh. I mean there’s no doubt it was the two footer on at Phoenix number 16. It’s like it’s based on the comments. I think everybody in the world could have made it. So you know little, do they know? I couldn’t feel my arms when I got up there. I was so excited. You know I was like this is I buried it the day before too, but that was awful. 1:02:15 – Jeff PelizzaroThen you got your redemption on 17 at Sawgrass, so it’s all good. 1:02:19 – Hayden BuckleyThat’s right. 1:02:19 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s right. All right, brother. Well, I appreciate you coming on. Look forward to this upcoming season. I know it’s going to be a big one. You know the crews behind you and we’re going to see you at East Lake this next year. Thanks for coming on, brother. 1:02:32 – Hayden BuckleyI appreciate you having me. I look forward to coming back on soon. Sounds good. 1:02:39 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG Podcast with Hayden Buckley. If you want any more information or any of the links from this episode, just go to 18strongcom. This is episode number 353 and you can find all the information on Hayden over there. Don’t forget to check out Link Soul and first form, our partners for this episode. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Jake Hutt: Golf Instructor, Content Creator, Co-Founder at DryveboxHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 352Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Prepare to be inspired as we deep-dive into the dynamic world of golf innovation with none other than Jake Hut, the co-founder of Dryvebox. This episode is a gold mine of insights, taking you from Jake’s humble beginnings as a golf instructor to his incredible journey as a successful entrepreneur. Alongside, you’ll uncover the secret sauce behind his unique teaching style, enriching philosophies, and the revolutionary concept behind Dryvebox – a portable driving range equipped with Trackman. Get ready to fuel your passion for golf as we peel back the layers on Dryvebox’s groundbreaking approach. With Dryvebox, golfers gain effortless access to comprehensive stats and data, completely skipping the need to check into a traditional golf club. Not just that, Jake takes us through the rental process, the strategic partnerships Dryvebox is forming with golf courses and the creative process that makes his content truly one-of-a-kind. We’ve also got a special treat for all you beginners and seasoned golfers out there. Jake shares his personal tips and reveals common mistakes golfers make on their journey. Also, discover the influence of other sports on golf swing and how different athletes can adapt their body mechanics to improve their golf performance. Plus, you won’t want to miss the part where Jake shares about his journey to becoming a golf celebrity. So come along, this episode promises to be a roller-coaster ride of learning, growth, and entertainment. Main Topics (0:00:04) – Starting a Portable Driving Range FranchiseCo-founder Jake Hutt discusses Dryvebox, content creation, teaching style, golf improvement, and Drivebox’s uses and market. (0:12:39) – Full Membership Benefits and Content CreationDryvebox provides an alternative to traditional driving ranges and golf clubs, allowing golfers to access stats and data, rent courses, and create content. (0:19:51) – Becoming a Golf CelebrityJake Hutt shares his journey from golf instructor to entrepreneur, discussing successful habits, learning from failure, and Dryvebox, an alternative to traditional driving ranges. (0:25:11) – Finding Inspiration and Simplifying ConceptsJake Hutt draws inspiration from various sources to simplify complex concepts, and Dryvebox provides an alternative to traditional golfing. (0:32:49) – Golfers’ Common Mistakes and TipsWe discuss golfers’ challenges, Dryvebox’s help, remembering techniques with melody and word, course environment’s effect on thinking, and thank Live Pure partners. (0:37:03) – Golf Path and Face ImportanceUnderstanding path and face to improve golf game, trusting the process and being aware of small changes for unexpected results. (0:47:23) – Teaching Golf to BeginnersJake Hutt shares insights on teaching without verbal cues, fatigue, Harvey Penick, intent, path/face, and Dryvebox. (0:54:29) – Sports’ Influence on the Golf SwingPlayers use different techniques and body mechanics to create speed and power, while trusting the process and putting in the work for unexpected results. (0:59:40) – Exploring Athlete Types and Golf PerformanceFootball and golf players need different physical abilities, intent and understanding of path and face to hit the ball, and Jake Hutt’s experience teaching without verbal cues. (1:03:26) – Music, Slang, and Golf Course FavoritesJake Hutt shares his experience of using creative words, slang, and his definition of ‘dusty’, as well as discussing the sickest courses he’s played this year. Connect with Jake Instagram: @jakehuttgolf Instagram: @Dryvebox Dryvebox Inquiries: www.dryvebox.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) Transcript generated by Podium.page Transcript generated by Podium.pageHelp us spread the word by tweeting about us at @podiumdotpage and including us in your shownotes! https://podium.page NOTE: There were 2 speakers identified in this transcript. Podium recommends using “Find and Replace” to change the speaker label to the appropriate name. Speaker separation errors can arise when multiple speakers speak simultaneously. 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 352 with Jake Hutt, golf instructor and co-founder of Dryvebox. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast, where we are here to help you build a stronger game, and this week I’m very excited to have our buddy, jake Hutt, from Jake Hutt Golf, on the show again. Jake is not only a prolific content creator and golf instructor that you’ve probably seen on Instagram or YouTube or one of the social media platforms, but also the co-founder of Dryvebox, which is basically a portable driving range equipped with Trackman all the different stats that you’re looking at being able to either work with a pro on remote location, add a golf course, do events and Dryvebox is kind of taking off all over the place. They’re starting to franchise these things. So in this episode we talk with Jake. First of all, just the trials and tribulations of starting a new company and what they’ve gone through with Dryvebox, the different iterations of the actual mobile unit that they’re using and how they’re utilizing it in different ways and learning every day from their people that from their franchisees, from their instructors, on how to utilize these things and what people are loving about them. Then we talk about just Jake’s content creation. What’s it like a day in the life of as Jake Hutt. How does he put all of this content together? Where do the ideas come from? What’s the process that he uses? And then we talk, obviously, a little bit about golf and he works with a ton of golfers still. So he’s giving instructions and we talk about his teaching style and his philosophies and really going to a lot of different ideas on how do you get better at golf. What are some of the things that he sees and what are the simplest things, the one or two things that he sees that can make the biggest difference in your game. So we’re going to get into all that with Jake Hutt right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strongcom, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. All right, man. So we got you hanging out in the warehouse, you’re in dry box, you’re Lincoln Park saying Fran. So tell us all about, like, what’s happened since you were on on the show with dry box, because it seems like it’s just kind of exploded since the last time you not shatted. Oh man I how long ago, was that I was. 0:03:04 – Jake HuttI meant to look it up it’s been two years I think I mean, you guys were just starting Okay, so we maybe had like one box. 0:03:12 – Jeff PelizzaroIt was just the one, I believe. 0:03:13 – Jake HuttOkay, awesome, yeah, we, that was our prototype. What we were doing is we were just experimenting with it. So we’d hop in it and we’d literally, like we go give lessons in San Francisco, we’d pull up to your house, we’d park on, like you know, the side of the street and bike lanes, people would pop out of their house, we do a lesson, and we’d bring it down to Stanford and experiment with it with students, just to see how you know, if people liked it, if people were having fun, and you know, just, you know 10 billion different learnings from it. What can we make better? What can we? You know, the screen in the back was still like wires everywhere and there was a you know, a crappy hitting air. It was just it was. It was a super prototype. The ceilings were too low and we’d stuck like Walmart sightings on the side and all that. And so now I guess, fast forward, whatever we’ll say, two years, we’ve got 12 boxes. We just hit go on franchising two days ago. So we’re out, you know, selling these things. I haven’t even really made the announcement yet. We’ve had just the big list of people that are interested. So we’ve kind of just been calling the people who’ve been trying to get their hands on one of these for the last two years. We are in what do we have? Four boxes in California. We’ve got a couple in Utah, salt Lake City. A golf course. Out there is leasing one Tiger Woods’ new course where he just broke ground, I guess, I don’t know, I don’t even know how long ago, but we have a box up there where you can go and essentially Trackman has that course all mapped out so you can go out and play it, just you know there. And then Launch and Vero Beach in Florida, texas, and I think by the end of the year we should have five more. And then yeah, and then so yeah, it’s just, it’s a franchise now and so it’s. If you’re interested, give us a shout. 0:05:08 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I mean, do you guys have any region restrictions or you guys kind of going all across the US and whoever contacts? 0:05:13 – Jake Huttyou and then all right. Yep, yeah, it just essentially depends on how many people are in the surrounding area. The more people, the more expensive it is. 0:05:22 – Jeff PelizzaroGotcha Sweet. So, first of all, how do people just email you? They just go on Instagram, send you a direct message. What’s the best way, yeah? 0:05:32 – Jake HuttSo if you go to Dryveboxcom there is a franchise section. It’s super easy to navigate with all the contact information. You just essentially just shoot us an email with the information on it and we contact you and go from there. 0:05:44 – Jeff PelizzaroSo who would you say has been kind of your biggest market, like certain type of golfers, golf courses Is it? Are you still doing a lot of parties and things like that, like what’s been your most successful thing and really even your most enjoyable piece of it? I? 0:06:00 – Jake Huttmean it’s. That’s a good question. I don’t know what. The everywhere is a little different. So, like I mean, we’ve done everything from you know your birthday party to a lesson on the side of the road, which we don’t do that anymore. We still do the birthday parties and whatnot, but we’ve also done. We are at the Genesis Invitational last two years will be this year again, whole 14, they do a big build out around the players lounge which is just one of the coolest places to watch golf. It’s free. You got all the the Genesis cars all lined up, you know beautiful stage and they got the big TV on the side. You go in closest to the pin. What hole is it? Hole? Like 16 is behind you. Like we were this last year. I think Tiger did play in it this last year. He was on the green behind us and a kid made a hole in one with him in the background. It was pretty cool and it’s just yeah, it’s just a. It’s a cool experience. So like we’ve we’re at the women’s us open, I think three years ago. So like you’ve got people you know hitting golf shots and they’re watching golf. It’s like what’s the one thing you want to do when you’re watching golf, you want to hit balls, right. So that’s been fun to like, be. You know, just being able to, to walk around these tournaments and have, have the box there has just been awesome. And then just seeing how people like our, our first guy, our first partner, brandon, who’s a PGA member in South Carolina he was the first person we gave a box to. He was like our guinea pig and so he’s been teaching, you know lessons out of that and you know bringing it to bars and everyone does it a little different. You know we’ve got a guy in Vasalia in central California who you know smaller town but he knows everyone and so he’s got all these birthday parties lined up and he does club fitting so he’ll bring it over to your house and you know he’ll fix all your clubs, fix your line goals, re-grip all your. You know everything while you’re in there. You know hitting balls, having fun with your buddies, and and then, yeah, you know Florida, they do it a little different Houston, texas, the markets a little different. So everyone’s just kind of still finding their way figuring out how to. You know how to sell and what’s fun and what works and what doesn’t. So still very. We’re still very young, very new, but it’s a. It’s really really cool giving someone, I guess, having a product, having something like that, messing around with it and then expanding, and then seeing how other people, what they come up with and lots of stuff that we, you know, we’d never thought of, that they’re doing, they’re killing it and so it’s. It’s super cool. 0:08:24 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, super versatile and being able to learn from the people that are using it. So what? Obviously new business, right Startup? What have been some of the trials tribulations? Obviously, you said that you started with the first box and you guys have made a ton of adjustments. I mean, I think it was just originally just a regular 18 wheel tractor trailer bed right. 0:08:45 – Jake HuttIt’s always been custom, so we had to custom design the space, the slide outs, and that’s I mean, that’s our IP essentially is is that you know, we’ve got solar panels, solar power, on top, so that was something that definitely didn’t come with with the original one. We found this battery guy who, you know, does all the crazy installation it gets made at the factory, then it gets sent to the guy who does the battery and then it gets shipped off to to the people. And we’ve had some issues you know, with I mean everything right, everything. Things have gone right, things have gone wrong. Every box is a is a new. You know, it’s always a new learning experience. There’s always something that that either, that goes wrong, that didn’t previously go wrong. We’ve had, like the manufacturers at at the, the first spot we were getting it made from, they didn’t tighten the lug nuts on one of the wheels so the wheel would fly in off two hours into like a two week long road trip. So we had to navigate that. That was fun. Literally just freeway tire gone. So that was, that was fun. Stuck on the side of the road for a couple hours. We were, everything was fine, everything was okay. It definitely the we were fine, the trailer was fine, but yeah, that was just like a. You know, we don’t work with them anymore for a reason, right, right. 0:10:09 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then you’re saying you’re actually at HQ. Which HQ? 0:10:13 – Jake HuttHQ yeah. 0:10:14 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd you’ve got a couple of hitting bays there, so do you give a lot of lessons there? Is that primarily where you’re teaching, or are you at a course as well? 0:10:22 – Jake HuttYeah, so no course, I was at Stanford for almost seven years and then COVID hit and then I co-founded this company essentially a deal, the founder of the company, he needed a golf guy and so he took a lesson from me and he was going around, you know, taking lessons from people all over looking for a co-founder, kind of like an undercover type deal. You know what I mean. And so apparently I gave him a good enough lesson. He pitched me the idea halfway through and we’ve just been running with it since. So I’m here in San Francisco once a week at Lincoln Park and then two days a week I’m down in Palo Alto where we have a box that essentially just lives as a single hitting bay. So the concept with that is you get a box and you go out, you do all these events with it and when it’s not being used you can park it and we’ve got, essentially, you book, and then you get a code and you can essentially use that bay 24 seven. It’s like you know, if you’re, you go up, show up with your clubs, type it in and it’s your hitting bay. You’ve got the music, you’ve got the lights, you’ve got the track man, and I’m also working on content essentially. So I’m kind of like trying to make it kind of like a Peloton where you’ve got because I teach with data, like I like track man, data, path, face, you know what makes the ball fly. Just most people, like a lot of you know young professionals, they come in, they’re practicing once a week, playing once a week at most, so we’re not messing around with what their swing looks like. It’s like oftentimes just a couple of subtle tweaks, couple of subtle changes and I’m just like you don’t need me, you need. You just need the data. Once you understand it, you know it may take a few sessions and then here’s a whole boatload of content that you know here. If you need to change low point, if you need to change face, if you need to change path, if you want to bring your spin rate down, if you want to bring your loft down, your ball flight down, you can. Obviously you can look at it when you’re in the box, you can bring it home with you and you go and you just get you know mess around with it. So that’s been really cool, just having that there and that’s probably 10 minutes away from where I live, so easy for me there. I’m about an hour south of San Francisco and so, yeah, we’re still trying to make that product, the self operational product, awesome and great so that, when it’s not being used, people still you know you can sell this. 0:12:39 – Jeff PelizzaroA full membership, yeah, so I mean, that’s what so many people you know, I know here in St Louis. I mean, if you don’t belong to a club, you’re then going to the local Munee or the driving range, but you don’t have access to the kind of stats and statistics you know, all the data, all the track stuff. So to have a box just sitting where you can schedule your, your session, you can go code it in, then you can just go pop your well, you don’t even need your buds because you guys have the music and you go kind of work on your own stuff, that’s pretty sweet. 0:13:09 – Jake HuttYeah, and you’re just like you’re just in another world, right, there’s no one else, you don’t need to hear anyone else hitting beside you, you don’t need to. You know, check in anywhere. You’re just like, you can park the thing anywhere and it’s just. It’s such a cool vibe because, like I mean, it literally could be in a parking lot, it could be. Again, everyone kind of figures out where that place is. Like there, you know the rent is here. It’s a little bit more expensive than most places, but, like you’re, all you need is a, you know, a pretty tiny plot of land. Like you’re paying. You know with your brick and mortar spot you’re paying, obviously a lot to break ground. You know bang walls through and you know building all that. That’s a lot of overhead with this thing. It’s just you know 500 bucks a month and park it there and then you’re done. You want to move it around and you know sell whatever, and you can do that too. We do have golf courses that lease it as well. So, like some will lease it for three months, five months, depending on how long the winter is, or sometime it’s a summer. Pull up, have it, it’s in and then it’s out and you don’t have to build anything. So we’re learning constantly. You know we get we’re at a number of different golf courses, in, in, I think we’re yeah, arizona, Utah. So it’s it’s, we’re all over. There’s a lot going on, it’s, it’s fun. 0:14:27 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s sweet. So, talking about content, obviously you know you are a prolific content creator and I’m always so amazed when I watch your stuff. You know the editing that you do, the music you do all of it. I would love to know what does a day in the life, and you actually did a little bit of a video on this recently. But day in the life of Jay Cut. What does? it look like you know you’re running a business. You’re teaching some lessons. You’re working on your you know, working on dry box. You’re working on your content. Do you have it pretty structured out and laid out the way you you post it in the video Is it? Is it that regimented? 0:15:03 – Jake HuttYeah, I mean it’s it’s always changing. So, like I mean, I have a calendar with everything on it that needs to get done for that day, but every day is just so different. Like we’re going, we’re taking the sense of doing a road show coming up, so I’ll be on the road for two weeks and so you know we’ve got. You know that’s. That’s like if I’m out launching a market, you know, like I was just in Vero Beach most recently, which is, you know, flying out there running around with the box filming everything for marketing purposes for them, teaching them how to use it, just getting to know them. And then, you know, so there’s kind of like life on the road and there’s life at home where, yeah, it’s a mixture of of teaching, I mean. So I guess like trying to think like it’s Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, I’m teaching, right, and then I’ll wake up and I’ll, you know, edit as much as I can. I work with a lot of different brands, so I owe different brands, different videos, and I’m always trying to integrate whatever brand I’m working with in the most organic way possible. I just hate ads and you know everyone hates ads, so it’s that’s been a really fun challenge for me. Is is learning to partner with these brands and make actual, enjoyable, fun content. That isn’t, you know, that’s that’s still me but also they’re happy with and that’s definitely forced me to just to, to learn to make different stuff, like I. I did one like where I was at a restaurant my buddy just opened up as a third restaurant in San Francisco, so it’s like I want to bring the camera out there and just see, you know, film a bunch of B-roll and see if I can tell a story, see what that looks like. So I’m always trying to learn and just do different stuff and just see how it turns out and learn from it. I, you know, I like my favorite content to make still is definitely kind of the the swing tip rap song which is, you know, evolved over time as well, With, just you know, more cuts, more arrows, more texts, more moving texts. So it’s just always everything is always just trying to just one up the thing from before. So that also means it takes longer, it takes more time. So I’ve got to, you know, make sure that I do have the enough time to create whatever that is and also have time for everything else. So it’s, it’s really every day. Yeah, it’s a mixture of of a ton of editing, and I’m, you know, also working on outsourcing that. So I’m planning on having kind of a like no, I don’t know if I don’t want to say competition, but it’s I’m going to throw out something like here is the song, here is a, you know, a drive full of whatever you know, 20, 20 gigs of footage. Put it together and let’s see who’s who’s is the best, so that I can, you know, maybe do a little bit more. So that’s kind of like. The next step for me, which is also kind of terrifying, is, like you know, starting to delegate a little bit more so that I don’t have to do all of it. But I do love the editing process. It is so fun sitting down and like just how do I take all of this and turn it into some cohesive thing? It’s a yeah, it’s. It’s a lot of fun. You’ve got Dryvebox, which is just. You know, I do a lot of the content, a lot of the videoing for that. We’ve got lots of people much smarter than myself who are either lawyers or, you know, went to business school. So I’m learning a ton from them as well on all the calls and all the things they’re talking about. So much of it’s over my head, but it’s really cool to be, to be a part of it and I mean it’s like. It’s like going to business school. For me, this is like my business school and I get to, I get to be the golf guy and you know and help however I can. 0:18:53 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I was wondering if you had anybody helping you yet with the video and and you know, editing stuff, because I know that that’s that’s kind of what you, what you love doing making the music and that’s the stuff that I am just terrible with. It takes me forever to do and that’s why you know we’ve got Bill behind the camera here and that kind of stuff it’s like. But you know, I would imagine that that’s the thing that you really enjoy so much that you don’t want to give too much of that away, but you have so much on your plate at the same time. 0:19:23 – Jake HuttI mean, I if I could, if I knew it would turn out exactly the same, like absolutely I’d have someone else do it all day. Just, I never know how it’s going to turn out. Like when I’m looking at it, I’m like I, you know, I don’t know. So I’m also really excited to see, like you know, I might send it in and like everyone else might do a better job than I do. I’m like great, cool, Like all I have to do now is film and send it to someone else and now that frees up a lot of time on my end. So that’ll be fun. Yeah, I, as much as I do love it, it is so insanely time consuming. Editing and like it is just, I still do it all on my laptop. I don’t have a big fancy guy. That may be the next purchase that I need to make before I go blind. But yeah, like deeper, I’ve gotten into it, is it? Just it takes so much time, so much crazy focus, so you get like lost in that world and the computer screen is like oh my God, is this ever going to end? 0:20:23 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I think we could officially say and you may not believe this yourself, but the rest of us looking from the outside in would say that you’re kind of officially a celebrity type in the golf world these days. You know, you’ve just kind of amassed huge followings on Instagram. I was just on your YouTube, about to hit, I think, 100,000 subscribers over there. When you started making some of these videos, did you ever think that you’d be working with companies like Callaway, shrixon you know all these different big brands, starting a company like Dryvebox? You know, when you were just you know giving lessons, making some cool videos, did you ever think it would be where you are right now? 0:21:02 – Jake HuttNo, no, not a million years, I did have. I mean, like when I was kind of starting it all out, I was reading a lot, and I was reading a lot of. I bought it. I was really interested in like the habits of what really successful people were doing and so, like Tools of the Titans is a really cool book, like Tim Ferriss and kind of all of those. I was just that’s kind of like where I started. I was like you know, whatever I do, I’m going to go. You know I’m always full in, 10,000 percent committed to whatever that is. And you know, in this case it was like all right, let’s, you know golf, and but I got a bunch of these books and I kind of studied like the habits of. I was just curious like what do successful people do Like? And I don’t know if I necessarily tried to copy them, but I did. Just, you know, I think it just exposed to me how, like, how hard people work and how much time they spend. It’s like your whole life, like you wake up early in the morning and you just work and you just like, you just go and you go and you go and you go and you go and you go. And so that like to me, was just like, okay, like I’m going to do this, like I this is, I kind of have an understanding of how hard it’s going to be and I knew it had to. You know I had to. I had to love it, because if you don’t love it, you’re just not going to put the time into it. That’s necessary. And so, like I loved reading about golf, I loved everything about, like when I was going to school. I didn’t love going to class when I was in college and so it was all like I went, but it’s like it wasn’t obsessed with it. And so golf, kind of I knew that I had that obsession similar to hockey, like when I grew up playing hockey I was completely obsessed with and I’d, you know, I’d go break into the rink at 10 o’clock and practice and like that’s like I knew what the healthy obsession, I knew what that was like. And so I was like I kind of found that in golf. And then I just, you know, just like a day by day thing, like I have so much fun doing whatever it is today, like making like the first videos I made. I just had so much fun doing it and it was just kind of a get through the day and just do it again and just do it again and do it again and just work really hard at it and see what happens. The book that really kind of changed how I look at things was Atomic Habits, james Clear, and I remember reading that when I was early on in my doing my book work for PGA and you gave the the ice cube analogy, right where it’s like you just take an ice cube, you put it on the table and it just sits there and you look at it, doesn’t change, doesn’t change, doesn’t change and eventually it starts to melt. You don’t really you don’t really know when things are going to start to happen, but you just put the work in and you just wait for it. And that’s kind of like how I looked at everything, which is like if I just work as hard as humanly possible, like at some point the ice cube is going to melt, I’m having so much fun anyways, I don’t really care if it. You know, whatever happens happens, and so it’s really it’s crazy kind of looking back and I mean I appreciate the sentiment so much. I mean it means a lot. I could just it’s something you don’t ever think about, I think, in the back of your head, like you, you try to put in the work that you think it’ll take to have some sort of success, whatever that is, and then, along the way, you know, just trying to learn as many skills as possible. I’ve always just been fascinated with just the learning process itself, just what does learning look like, and not being afraid of like being terrible at something, like learning this golf thing. Like grew up playing golf but I started playing really really poorly after starting to, you know, try all these different things, make a swing, look a certain way and like after being really good. You know, at a sport like hockey, where you’re not the best but you’re definitely elite, sucking at something is like I think that was probably the best thing that could ever happen to me was like sucking at something and then having to kind of come out on the other side and stick through it and learn something, like as a you know, it’s kind of. I guess I was, yeah, 25 when I started kind of this journey. I wasn’t particularly young, but I didn’t really care and I was like okay if I, if I’m okay with feeling like a complete failure and looking like an idiot, like I’m not afraid of anything, so it’s been fun. Yeah, it’s been a crazy journey. 0:25:08 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s exactly what I Hear. So many people say that our success one would ever like, you know what. I just kind of put my head down, did the thing, did the work and, just you know, kind of trusted the process, and all of a sudden come up for air and I’m like, oh my gosh, can’t believe. I’m, can’t believe I’m here, you know right, and I mean like professional golfers, all the, the the collegiate golfers, it’s like that’s, that’s a lesson, just to take it into the the world of golf and and performance. It’s like sometimes we just have to do that and have the faith and have the trust that I’m doing the right thing. I got to get up early, I got to do my workouts, I got to go hit the range, I got to go see Jake. I take my lesson, you know, and just put in the work, put in the work, put in the work and then eventually reap the benefits. 0:25:52 – Jake HuttYeah, absolutely I mean, it’s a terrifying concept when you’re in it, like it’s almost just like For me. I just wanted to mask that, like that, that feeling of you know what am I doing with? Just I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna spend all the extra time I can working so I don’t have time to forget about how terrifying the saw is. 0:26:15 – Jeff PelizzaroWith you when you’re putting together your content ideas. Is it like Do you sit down, like have structured time to do that, or is some of it like you’re working with a Student and you kind of figure out oh, they need help with this, or I keep seeing this. Maybe I’ll make a little piece of content on that. 0:26:31 – Jake HuttOh, man, I mean, it’s, it’s just, it’s all. I’m always thinking about, Just different concepts like my like, what’s what’s really fun for me? Fastening for me is taking kind of some of the more complex concepts and trying to, you know, dumb it down and make it simple, you know, and then turn it into a song and then make, you know, make the video around that. But it’s, it’s. The inspiration comes just from absolutely everywhere, whether it’s a student, or whether I’m driving or I I’m reading. Rick Rubin just came out with a book. I don’t know how old it is, but it’s all, it’s so awesome he’s, he’s, he like. He’s like the pioneer of, like the og, producer of, like hip-hop, you like yeah, like the Beastie Boys and yeah, don’t you like so? so his book it’s so. It’s so fascinating how he talks about like all these you know. Essentially it’s just all about like I Don’t know what the books call. It’s called like the creative something or whatever, but it’s like how he looks at it, there’s just so. I’m kind of like learning and like In, almost like reverse engineering, like different ideas I’ve had, or like, oh, like I’ve experienced that before. He just it’s just so cool. He talks like like last night I was reading an excerpt. He was like something like letting the subconscious mind kind of come out. So he’s saying like when you’re driving, sometimes some of the best ideas will come out because your mind, your conscious mind, is on the road, so it kind of allows your subconscious to like work in this you know, mysterious way. So I think it’s just like the ideas come Everywhere, I think traveling, staying in a hotel, when you’re by yourself Driving, or sitting by yourself or whatever like it’s all. It’s all. There’s so many different great places that ideas come from. So I’m always constantly thinking and thinking about what the next thing is going to be, your drawing inspiration from something here or there or wherever I might be well to your point of trying to make things just Simplified from complex. 0:28:24 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know topics and you do such a good job and I find myself like just growing through your, your videos and like first of all, just kind of smiling, laughing at some of your raps, and you know that the tunes and everything and it’s like. But then, like watching your content, it’s like you really do like break down some of the things so easily and you take different perspectives. You know like sometimes you’re in your socks on your hardwood floors and showing you know, different movements and and different forces and it’s like you know, so many people learn so many different ways and they and I think that’s why sometimes people will will go to different instructors because they’ll hear something a little different and it will click with them. And what I love about your stuff is you don’t do it all the same way, you. You mix it up all the time and sometimes you’ll say something I’m like, oh, that’s, that’s the feeling, or literally. I was just talking to a golf pro here who was giving lessons in our, our gym and we were talking about how he asked me how the the shaft of the club flexes, and we were. I was talking about how, you know, we thought myself and the client he was working with we’re talking about, well, it bends like this and he’s like, no, it bends up and down. Then you had a video talking about not because he was telling this guy like don’t ever just set your club on the ground, you know, because then you’re getting really upright and then literally I’ve been scrolling through, I’m like I sent it to both of those guys. I’m like, oh my gosh, jade just had a video about this. So you, you give it such a different perspective and you tackle so many different things. That I think is really really cool. 0:29:53 – Jake HuttYeah, thank you first off. Yeah, I like there’s so there’s so many interesting things like concepts and, yeah, I mean the it’s. I can’t remember where I came up with the inspiration for that one, but I think I saw it somewhere and I’m like, oh my god, like that’s that makes so much sense. And then, yeah, just trying to make a video that like just engages people and makes it I was talking to someone who, to your like the connecting the dots, to me, that’s like, if I can be the guy that like just makes it so, just so simple, stupid, like what I’ve found the feedback I’ve gotten is, like, you know, you could watch Seven different videos and everyone’s kind of trying to say the same thing, and then, like my videos just so stupid and simple, like they’re like, oh, like, now it all makes sense, like I, I, I love being, you know, the, the video that kind of helps Just simplify. It’s like I want a five-year-old to be able to watch it and be in, like, be able to hum along, do it, but also, have you know, have him or her be able to understand it. And so I think for, like, the older you get, we want to in that, you know, we want to intellectualize everything, which it’s fun. It’s fun to think about things, it’s fun to Really dive deep into something you know it’s not any good for performance. It’s terrible for performance. The more you know, almost the worse right. So it’s like that’s how my brain thinks. Like I love just like I’m reading the science of the golf, so I guess I’ve been reading now for like three years trying to make sense of it. But like all that you know the kinetics of applying force to the handle of a club, and like angular momentum and like what you know, you apply a force, you’ve got to torque it through, and like all you know, kind of. So it’s that’s. That’s why I’m definitely not the best golfer, but it’s fun. That’s what allows me, you know I’m I’m passionate about the teaching aspect though, and I’m not trying to play a tour, but it allows I think it allows that the simplicity to kind of shine through, which initially, when I was starting with everything, I Couldn’t believe how hard it was to Really to portray something simple. Like I remember the hitting record. Like you know, the first year I started doing this head of the back of the range press record with no thought, really was like, okay, I’m just gonna like talk about some golf stuff and shouldn’t be that hard. I should be able to say something relatively simple and I would, you know, just mumbling over my words for a month and I was like why I really need to, you know, figure out how to communicate. So I started kind of thinking about concepts and I would I’d you know I’d be in the shower, kind of going over like how can I erase every word from what I’m about to say? That doesn’t need to Be there? And since you turn it in like a short little poem, so that when I get there and I hit record, like I know exactly what I’m gonna say and and now it’s kind of like there’s, you know, instead of that being a, a 30-second little sentence, and you know, now it’s a song and so that’s, the song is already recorded. So now I go out and I hit record and I’ve got to look like a complete idiot, idiot on the golf course. I’m about to go out today, just like, oh god, like where can I, where is the quietest place on the course, or no one can see me? Just look like a complete clown. What I might do today, actually set up a phone and record myself recording just to show everyone how big an idiot I look like. But that’s a you know. 0:33:09 – Jeff PelizzaroI was just thinking that’s a great idea. Have you ever seen that account? It’s called influencers in the wild and it’s basically just yes, I have. It’s incredible, it’s the account of other people posting videos. So yeah, it almost be like somebody posting a video of this is what Jake really looks like before it’s all produced and. 0:33:25 – Jake HuttThat would be. I’m definitely gonna do that. I love it. 0:33:29 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it. I’m glad that that was spawned right here. Yeah, I mean, with your songs it’s like sometimes you know you’ll, you’ll give a tip or whatever, and then it just kind of rings in your head too. So when you’re standing on the driving range it you remember it because it’s catchy and it’s and it’s quick and simple, and that’s that’s been very helpful sometimes. 0:33:50 – Jake HuttThat’s great. Yeah, I mean like what I mean I think every golfer is as Shared the sentiment is like the second you step on the golf course, like that environment is just like it’s pure stress. They not feel like it, but there’s not a whole lot of space up here left for like any conscious thought or any thought period, right. So like on the range even, like you know you have your notes and your scroll and it’s like okay, you’re taking your time, you got your headphones in, you’re chilling, whatever, let’s elbow in whatever, I’m gonna try and twist the feet or whatever. Like when you go the golf course. It’s like it may be like you, all you, there’s room for three words, right, and like those words have to have some, some meaning to it. So, like having some sort of a, you know, even a little melody, or even just a, I think a, a visual in your head of whatever mixed with a word and a melody. It seems to be Maybe a little bit more memorable and maybe able to recall it a little bit easier, with less effort to recall whatever that is. So, yeah, I mean it’s hard for me to know. So it’s always fun hearing Other people and how they experience it because I just live in my head. You know those songs are everywhere. I don’t yeah, so anyways, that’s it’s. It’s it’s cool to hear it, yeah. 0:35:10 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it, my, my son. I told him that I Was like, yeah, have you ever heard of Jake how he’s like, yeah, I’m like, oh, I’m having him on the show? He’s like, no way, I’m like, yeah, I actually had him on a couple years ago, if you kind of paid attention to what your dad does at all. No, he didn’t what’s his name? Sam. 0:35:28 – Jake HuttSam, sam what’s up. Sam Tomas, say what’s up. 0:35:31 – Jeff PelizzaroI will. I will for sure. Let’s take a second to thank our partners over at live pure. Live pure is the number one hydration drink that you need on the golf course, especially when it’s getting hot out there, you’re sweating, you’re playing lots of golf. You need something more than just water in your water bottle. So dr Troy van Biesen and his team formulated one of the greatest hydration products out there. That is no sugar added, all natural ingredients and the top quality pga tour pros champions that you know are all using this on the golf course. So go over to live pure comm. That’s live PUR comm. Check out all their products. You can use code 18STRONG and let live pure champion your day. So when, when you’re dealing with your students and everything, you’ve obviously seen a bunch of a bunch of golfers. You still work with golfers all the time. I’m sure that they they help drive a lot of this thought process. For the content, what are some of the the biggest things that you see Golfers making? What are some of the biggest mistakes? Like you know that most amateurs could benefit from a couple little tips on. You know this or that? 0:36:46 – Jake HuttYeah, I mean the biggest one, I’d say in the last. Like teaching with with track man over the last really three years. Like I spent the first you know six years with with no tech. Shockingly, stanford, really nothing there You’re just, you’re on a grass range, right and you’re you’re trying to figure it out. What most people don’t understand is just how simple, like if you want the ball to end up in the middle is a bunch of different ways to do it right. So it’s like Do you know where your pad? You know where your what, where your path is? Do you know if you’re swinging out to in or end out and Do you know where your face is in relation to that? Like those two things. Like if you understand path and face, like you can get the ball to go where you want it really fast without having to change anything crazy about your swing. Most people’s path is very consistent. So I you know, like every lesson I give them, for the most part you come in, you know, give me 10, 15 swings with your six iron after your warm and we’re gonna go through. You know we’re gonna go through your path and the number is always wildly consistent. You know within a couple degrees. But you’re either swinging out to in, into out, or you’re pretty neutral and that’s gonna dictate your ball flight and what you need to feel with your face. So you know I’ll put the numbers up on the screen. It’s like all right, you’re swinging a little bit out to in. Everyone’s like oh no, no, it’s fine, you’re just gonna. We just want you to play a little pole fade, right, so You’re don’t need to think about your backswing, you don’t need to think about your downswing. But we need to figure out is what you need to feel to get your face in the right place, right, so you want your face halfway in between the target in the path. Here’s the numbers. Let’s mess around with it. So, like for me, I always just overdo everything. Like over, close the face, under, close the face. If you can do both those things, you know both those things then you can find the middle May take you 20 shots or 30 shots, but ultimately, like that’s what we’re looking at. I’m looking at path face low point where the club bottoms out with an iron. You want the club to bottom out after driver before and then impact location. Right, and so teaching students the power of intent, like everyone. I was doing online lessons for a long time and then I don’t really do those anymore because without like, if you don’t have an understanding of impact, then you get the most beautiful swing in the world, like your ball’s still not gonna go where you want, right, like. So for the average golfer, the person who’s practicing once a week, it’s like. I’m not gonna change your golf swing. Like I went through that took me 10 years to come out on the other side playing horrendous golf, practicing for hours. You know every day and like I know what that looks like. It’s awful, it’s, and sometimes you don’t come out on the other side, right? You hear plenty of stories of golfers who make it to the highest level and they go to make a movement pattern change and then they’re you know. You never hear from them again not always the case. But so I’m varied Like. I look at golf as like, as a. It’s a skill acquisition. You’re trying to skill acquisition. How do you acquire a skill? How do you get better at like? To me, it’s just. Can you get the club to hit the ground in the right place, hit the club face in the right place and then match path and face Like that’s, that’s it. And like I had a student come in the other day and like he was hooking it. He was beautiful golf swing, everything was awesome. He’s sitting the middle of the face. He’s sitting the ground in the right place. His path is a little from the inside. He thought he was swinging away from the outside. He’s thinking he’s like am I supposed to do this or that? Am I? I should be getting some width. And like all these it’s like dude, you’re just closing the face too much. So like I was like just try and hit the biggest slice ever. And he hits a perfect little draw. And I’m like do that again. And he does it again Perfect little draw, perfect little draw. And he’s like so all I have to do is close the face less. And I’m like correct. And he’s like so what am I doing here? I’m like I don’t know, what are you doing here. Let’s pull out your driver and see that he had some issues with the driver. But like that’s what a lot of the lessons look like is really just like okay, here’s what you’re doing, here’s what you’re doing good. Everyone’s already doing something good, whether it’s hitting the ground in the right place or whatever. And then it’s just you know, it’s just dialing it in and then it’s getting them to understand, like I was listening to Cameron McCormick, space coach, he’s like the magic is in the feedback. So you know he’s got track man up and he’s like, with the you can go out to the range and you can, you know, mess around whatever without the feedback. That’s great, but the magic is in the feedback. It’s knowing exactly where you’re hitting the ground, exactly where your face is. Is it one degree close at two degrees open, being able to feel those tiny little things. Like Bubba can feel an extra wrap of tape around his grip, right, like being just so acutely aware of these tiny things. So that’s really what golf is is when you go down the route of thinking about these, you know where your club is and what your arm is doing. Like certainly that’s there’s a time and a place for it. But I would argue that if you’re practicing once a week, probably not a great path to go down. So I like, for me it’s. I feel like I’ve probably hurt way more golfers than needed just because you need something to say online. Like you, just you can’t. You know, like you can’t, just say, like all you got to do is play around with the face, like this shot. It’s a little close, cause you know you can’t see ball flight from the video. They’re just sending you one tiny, you know, a swing and a sample size of eight billion. It’s like. So I just that’s kind of how I look at it. It’s like this really four things and then to get good at. You know, the next question always is like okay, well, I did it once out of 20 times. How do I get more consistent? It’s like you get come back here when I’m not here and put the work in right. Yeah, maybe you start. Maybe you start with one set. You start with a seven iron. You get really good at seven iron. Maybe the first session you do you get one out of 40, right, where you get impact location, low point, path and face right. Then you come back and maybe you get five right. Then you come back. You know, instead of once a week, now you’re practicing three times a week and now you get to the point where you’re. You know 20 out of 20 are pretty darn good. Then you start adding. You know, let’s go from seven iron to nine iron to driver, driver, we got a. You know, now you’re shifting low point a little bit further back. So you’re hitting further up, shift low point back. Now your path is changing. So you do understand swing direction, low point path, those things. So that’s like that’s kind of how how I, without getting too deep into you know the numbers is just is practicing with good feedback and every student is, you know you’re on track, man, maybe I I might just pull up face angle, close the face, open the face. Could you feel that was seven degrees closed. That feel like I’ll take away all the data and say, all right, hit a shot. What did you feel? They’ll say? I guess a number, all right. Negative three. You know faces. You know positive nine, not even close, like all right, so you can’t tell the difference between closed and open. Let’s try again. And you do it again, make that number bigger. What do you feel? You know on and on and on and on and you work with someone for you know long enough with that feedback and every single one of them get better. It’s like it’s not a mystery anymore, like what makes the Paul curve this way or curve that way? We know everything right. It’s just it’s like it’s it’s hammering in their head Like this is a skill, sport skill. Trump’s technique 10 days out of 10, like. But are you willing to put the work in? Most people aren’t and they don’t really know what that process looks like and how long and frustrating it is, and that’s a key too. 0:44:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know, I would say that the majority of the regular golfers out there you were talking about practicing once a week I would venture to say that a lot of them don’t even practice once a week. They go play once a week Maybe. Maybe play twice a week, which is fine, and I mean, if that’s what you want to do too, but you have to manage your expectations there, right. We have a net here in the gym and I’m totally guilty of just going and banging balls in the net just for the sake of repetition. And just recently I got one of the new Rapsodo, the MLM 2 Pro, and fired it up for the first time. And it’s really amazing when you don’t have feedback all the time. I would hit a ball and was like that felt really good or that you know, kind of thinking what I thought the ball did. And then you look at the feedback and it’s like, no, that’s not really what was happening there and it’s like, oh, so me just being down here banging balls, which I still will continue to do, but you know. 0:45:02 – Jake HuttSure, it feels great. Just find the middle of the base and you know. Whatever, who cares? 0:45:06 – Jeff PelizzaroBut to your point, like you don’t really know what’s happening unless you’re seeing it, unless you’re seeing those stats, and you know, and you have to be willing to go out and put in some work and do what your coach tells you or find out what you need to do from your coach, Totally right. 0:45:21 – Jake HuttYeah, I mean I’ve just had, I’ve just found it so fascinating just playing around with the numbers and trying to gamify it, like I was reading some study about trying to find. It was like players trying to hit a wedge a certain distance, because a wedge is ultimately to field shot. It’s not just like your seven iron full swing is going to go on a good one, you know whatever. 165, 170 yards, like you got to find what 50 yards is, whether you’re using a clock system or you know whatever, it’s just a field. So you know, the study was like the students found how to hit 50 yards or 70 yards or whatever it was, by first they’re trying to hit one long, trying to hit the next one short and then finding somewhere in between right. So it’s like pulling up, you know face angle, just messing around. It’s like be a kid, like pull up face angle and try and spray. You know, give me 10 open, give me 10 closed. Give me 7 open, give me 7 closed, you know. And from there it’s just like it’s so much easier to find middle. Give me a super out to in swing. Give me 10 left. Give me 10 right. Give me 7 left, give me 7 right, let’s see if we can find 0. Hit the toe, hit the heel, hit everywhere, but the middle, like Adam Young, the practice manual, the first book, really that like I was like wow, this is just, this makes so much sense. Like give someone a task and then they will let the body self-organize the movement to create the outcome. And Frans Bosch, too, like super interesting stuff. Like have you heard the name Frans Bosch? What’s the famous? He’s got this training. But he’s this. He’s a Scandinavian. I want to say like the Netherlands or something somewhere over there, dutch, whatever he works with, like the Dutch national baseball team and rugby and team sports, and like I don’t know how the book came out a while ago so I don’t know how up to date it is, but like one of the things that he would have students do Is it the anatomy of agility. 0:47:17 – Jeff PelizzaroIs that the name of the book? 0:47:18 – Jake HuttThat’s probably one of them he’s got there’s one. It’s a light blue cover. I understood maybe like a tenth of it, as a lot of it is pretty complex. But like if he was trying to get someone to like in the let’s say he’s like training baseball, trying to get someone to like put more pressure on their front leg. Like he was just all about like never telling, never using verbal cues for anything, finding ways to get them to do something without telling them how to do it right. So like he would like fatigue their trail leg. He’d have them do like one-legged squats on their right leg and then have them hit a ball and then like, look at what they’re doing with their pressure right. So like I thought that was just the coolest, most brilliant thing. As, like you know, I kind of went down the route of of like you’ve got your, you know your verbal cues versus like how these conscious thoughts are like weakly strung together, things that the brain just will never, it won’t ever work under pressure. Versus like I forget all the terminology. I was, I was, I had it all down a couple of years ago but, like you know, you want to get someone to hit it low. You can tell them lean the handle forward, lower the dynamic loft, you know. Flex your lead risk, make sure your trail risk is extended and impact all these things, all these verbal cues, that ultimately just there’s no context, there’s no meaning. So under pressure falls apart every time. That’s why everyone sucks at golf. Versus the other way is like get someone under a tree, have them hit the ball under a tree, right, they don’t know what they’re doing, they have no clue how they’re doing it. You’re going to find faster results by telling someone how to do it initially. So, like you know, in an hour or less or whatever, if you’re trying to get someone to do, you know, maybe hit one shot good, like you can tell them all the things, which is you know, whatever you’ll, they’ll be happy, but it’ll never work under pressure Versus the other students. Like you get them. It was like Harvey Penaq style, right? Like Harvey Penaq, all his stuff was just so stupid simple. You charge a nickel for a lesson someone’s hitting, like how I would look at it now. They’re hitting too much ground, they’re hitting everything fat, right? He’d just say right, go, brush leaves off of your grass for a week and come back, give me a nickel your lessons over, like that’s it. And you know, like, I just thought it was so brilliant, like, but what you know what he’s teaching? Like, the deeper I looked into it and the more down all these rabbit holes you know I went down. It’s like for something really to show up. Under pressure, you can’t really know what you’re doing, right, and that’s why, like, good players are shitty teachers because they have no clue what they’re doing. And that’s, that’s a good. That’s good If you want to play really good golf. Like you can’t know what you’re doing, some people are just blessed with it, right, they’re just they. I was talking to my friend, drew Cooper. I don’t know if you follow him, he hits it a billion yards. He was out playing, I mean just coolest guy ever and just such a knowledgeable, awesome guy. But he was talking, he was playing with this guy recently in Arizona tour pro Can’t remember his name who he said was the most impressive ball striker he’s ever played with. And you know he was picking his brain like what’s he, what’s he working on, and like where did he learn? And the guy was just like, yeah, I kind of picked up a club, but I was young and like I guess I had a pretty good swing. And you know, I’m kind of just, you know just kind of doing this, just saying you know, pretty much saying nothing, like I kind of just feel this and like literally just think. You know, drew said he went out and shot like 63 or whatever and every shot he hit he was mad at, didn’t? You know? Everything was inside 20 feet. You know like five burry looks inside four feet and he was like that’s a whole nother world but he’s like you know, that guy has no idea what he’s doing and that is why he’s able to play so good under pressure and that’s just. It’s like it’s crazy, it’s crazy and like here, you know, here we all are trying to master the swing and it’s just like it’s. It’s a crazy. 0:51:01 – Jeff PelizzaroTrying to try to like make it so complex when you know I mean, obviously you came up from the hockey background. I mean you never had those kind of thoughts when you’re out in the ice or for me, out on the soccer field or playing baseball, and I always think back to you know you’re talking about the different degrees for the wedge and you know that little system or how to feel it out or whatever. It’s like you never thought about any kind of a system for throwing a ball to, to the shortstop versus second base or to, you know, down to home from the outfield. It’s like you just kind of figured it out. You didn’t have a. I got to put my hand 30 degrees back and then I got to. I got to throw it from this angle and come out to end. It’s like no, you just you did it so many times that you felt it and you learned how to do it. And that’s what I see with the guys that that I know personally, that have played forever. It’s like they can just go out and they can just sling it, but it’s because they’ve done it a million times. 0:51:56 – Jake HuttYeah, since they were a kid, and you know some people are, are blessed to have just fit. Just, they figure it out really early and their mechanics are, you know they’re, they’re good, they’re good enough. And then you just, yeah, you just you do it enough. And then before you know it, you have just no clue, Like that’s. You know, you’re like I don’t use my hands in a golf swing. So like you tell a beginner like they’re, like, oh, someone told me not to use my hands. Like I had a guy come in the other day. He’s like he’s been playing for four months and he’d been to a couple instructors and you know he was told like he had a couple of shots. And I’m like I’m trying to figure out, like what information was this guy told? And like, cause, like they just make it some really we do some really weird things. And then we started getting into it and like his concept of a golf swing was like for, like you know, for an elite player, it’s a great field. It’s like I’m just going to rotate and I’m not going to use my hands. You’ve never learned like you’re going to better use your arms. You better use your hands. You bet you have to learn how to clothe. You got to learn all these things. So just it’s so interesting how like and I think, yeah, like it’s just it’s interesting as a newer golfer, I think there’s like certain fundamentals that just are so different than you know, than than an elite golfer, and like what you have to think of is just is so different than once you know, once you get to this point, once you’ve learned all these things. So it’s like I’m always fascinated teaching someone who’s just started, just started. Teaching this guy who played pro basketball. You know he picked up the game like six months ago, absolutely obsessed with it, and so it’s just like having a. It’s always really fun having a good athlete who has no idea what they’re doing and you get to, like you know, form them and and instill different concepts and have them watch you and you exaggerate different things and like it’s it’s just it’s just so fun teaching someone how to play and just seeing like pure joy on their face when they hit one like he, he won like three hundred and nine yards yesterday and like just went absolutely nuts. He’s out there playing today. Like it’s just, it’s such a, it’s just so fun. 0:54:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI was going to ask you just you know, like with your hockey background, obviously hockey players tend to be pretty good golfers. You know the a lot of the pros that end up going and playing a lot of golf. They tend to smash a ball a mile. Um, working with some different athletes I’m sure you’ve worked with with several Um have you found that one type of athlete is a little more prone to to playing better golf, like hockey, baseball? I’ve seen some some basketball players, golf swings, and they’re not always all that great. But just wonder if you’ve come across any specific sports that you think have really kind of carried over, or is it more person to person? 0:54:38 – Jake HuttYou know. I mean like obviously you’ve got Steph Curry incredible, um, he’s been playing since he was young and what’s interesting too is, uh, I can’t remember what I was talking to another basketball player, uh, who was? Uh, it was Damien Lee. Um, I gave him a few less. We actually pulled the dry box up right in front of his house. He’s like I have no issue with short game or putting shooters. Like our hands are awesome, touch, feel like I can. He pulls down there, ball breaks left to right, like I’ve got touch all day. You know what I mean? Like the layups that, um, and I can’t remember who said it, but it was like or where I heard it was like the. The golf swing is the culmination of everything you’ve done up until that point. Right, like it’s just a blend of everything. Um, and so baseball pitchers are awesome. They’re like I mean the trail arm, the external rotation, the separation, the slamming the lead foot into the ground, the deceleration, the rotation, like they’re just like to me, the most insane. Like what they do with their body to create to get that ball moving as fast as it does is like the sickest thing ever. Um, then you get a golf club in their hand. It’s just like whoa. Hockey players are like a very different. They create speed very differently. Like you have to have really strong forearms and hands and wrists. And so what I’ve learned along the way is like wrist grip strength plays a massive role in speed, being able to, um, like I, like drew has his next gear golf. So I went through I was like one of their guinea pigs going through like three months of uh of of their protocols, and there’s a lot of like wrist strength stuff, like kind of taking your hands, like like in pushup position, going here, going there, going there and talking to him about it too, like he had like a wrist injury. Like when you’re whipping that club around your body, you’re slowing it. You have to slow it down and then speed it up again. There’s so much force that goes into your wrist and like your brain knows what your body can handle and not. So if you don’t have the forearm strength, the hand strength, the grip strength, all that, like you’re not going to be able to generate nearly enough, nearly as much speed as the next person. And you wouldn’t be able to see it with your eyes either, like you can’t see that force. Uh, and it’s the same thing with using the ground too. Like you look at Drew’s swing and it’s like wow, it looks like he, you know, it looks like he was going at that a little bit. And you look at the club speed, it’s like 150 miles an hour and you just carry it at 380. You’re like whoa, um, and then you look at how much force he’s producing at the ground, how hard he’s pushing, um, and it’s just like it’s crazy. So, like hockey players, you know really short swings, but we’re able to again really strong forms, strong hands and then being able to dissociate on land. You know when you’re, when you’re taking a slap shot. Like you, you’re on a blade, yeah, so you really have to be good at like that lead ankle. Your ankles are really really strong, and then everyone knows how to create separation. You’re, you’re able to rotate the hips crazy open while keeping your chest closed, um, and then what’s interesting, like how we uh, every hockey player hits it really low and left. Why? Because the the a slap shot, the face is pointing down and you’re flexing the stick and that’s just like we’ve been making that motion forever. So like you pick up a golf club and every hockey player, for the most part, is going to battle a big old snap, hook, right, right, like um, and then, yeah, you’ve got. Like the football players are usually really rigid because if they’re not, then they’re going to, they’re not going to make it, they’re going to get their head knocked off, right, they’re going to be injured after one play. So rotation and dissociation is usually really really difficult for them. So they have a hard time creating speed. Um, like, that’s kind of another thing. Like in hockey, like you also do have to have a level of rigidity so that, like when you get smashed, like you don’t fall apart. So like for me once hockey was over, is I, I I got away from a lot of weight lifting and just like I was, like I just my body needed to become a little softer so it could move and rotate a little bit more and become a little spongier and um, I don’t know how in like. That was just kind of my feel. I know there’s a lot of great research out there now that obviously like, if you lift in the right way and keep mobility up, lifting is obviously great, but it is just so fascinating looking at all the different athletes and who’s good, who’s not and all the different patterns that go into it. Like I don’t know if you saw what’s his name Nadal’s golf swing like, exactly like is Like like his forehand tennis shot, like it’s literally like his backswing goes to about here, but it looks exactly like how he hits a tennis ball. It’s the craziest thing. 0:59:35 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m looking that up as soon as we get off. It’s so cool, I think you know. You mentioned, like just the different types of athletes. It’s very true, like the, the football players, and we even had dr Stuart McGill on here talking about he’s a spine expert. Sorry, doctor and you, his stuff is awesome, yeah, and he, you know, talks about how, if you’re playing you know sports like that you need to lift heavy and build rigidity in your spine, but if you’re a golf, you need that elasticity and you need to be able to move, and so everything that you just said like about the Pictures and and the hockey players almost being a little bit of a cross between the two makes it a ton of sense. And as to why, you know, for For some guys, like the football players, if they’re getting into the golf world, they need to do a little bit more like what you did and that’s, you know, work on. You got to be able to move and rotate and try to regain some of that, and in other sports you might have to to build up a little bit more strength and resilience and rigidity, because you’ve gone the other way. That’s a great point. 1:00:32 – Jake HuttYeah, it’s, it’s. It’s so fun to just get into all that stuff I was talking to drew to about, like because he’s got a background in exercise science and so like, it’s just so fun to talks about the Like you’ve got. You can do an extra, you can. You can lift really heavy and slower and then you can obviously lift lighter and faster and so kind of like Looking at what every person needs, do you need which do you need more of? To kind of find that like, is it? You know so many people that are into speed now, which is so cool? Just the long drive thing, which I’m also kind of surprised hasn’t taken off as much over the years, but it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s so cool seeing, like, all the, all the different types of athletes that are getting into the long drive stuff and that are out there just to hit the ball as far as humanly possible. That’s said. Said what L guy, the double pump guy? I don’t have seen him, oh. 1:01:24 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean just crazy speed, ball speed, it’s, it’s like we like 160 now. And now your, your boy, drew, though like watching him, he’s just got a beautiful golf swing and then it’s just that, to see how far the ball is going, how fast that club that you’re like, really it didn’t look like he put that much effort into it and it’s just just smashed. It’s awesome. 1:01:49 – Jake HuttHe would be an awesome guy to have on the podcast. You guys would have an awesome talk and he’s just the coolest dude ever. 1:01:56 – Jeff PelizzaroI would love to have him on. 1:01:57 – Jake HuttI’m happy to connect to you guys too. Yeah, as he can go into all of it like he’s just got. He grew up playing and but he’s got all the background of like. What I love about picking his brain is like so much information that I’ve kind of found along the way like which is awesome, like you’ve got it like kind of the old-school guys, which is all like what do they feel, which I think is very valuable, like insanely valuable, but is also kind of fleeting, it’s not really what’s happening. And I still feel like there’s like in the golf world, like everyone looks at golf like this like mysterious, like magical thing, that like it’s it’s not a sport, it’s like it’s it’s living in its this own world over here of like make believe, like whatever it’s like, but in reality it’s like it’s just like anything else. It’s like it’s a physical movement. That like there are laws that govern these things rotation, torque, and how to, how to create and do these things right that like it’s just it’s yeah, it’s just really cool Picking someone’s brain who kind of has the like both of those the golf skill, but also the knowledge of like the gnarly exercise science stuff that I know little about, always learning and then in being able to also execute it and then talk about all that’s anyways. 1:03:14 – Jeff PelizzaroGreat guy. Yeah, that’s what’s fascinating. He then, he then does it out there on the course you can. You can see him. 1:03:20 – Jake HuttYou can see him putting it all into action, right, it’s yep. Yeah, it does it really really well too, and it’s fun to watch. 1:03:26 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, man, just a couple questions to finish this out here. I know last time we had you on we asked you all of our kind of typical ones, so I got a couple random ones that came from some of our crew. First one is what does Jake Hutt listen to most out on the golf course? I assume you’re a music on the course kind of guy. Oh, yeah, and absolutely, and if so, who are some of the artists that you’ve listened to the most recently? Oh, man. 1:03:50 – Jake HuttI mean, I love soul hip-hop. I’ll also I mean the the. The boring answer is everything I’ll say, like my fate if it’s like a Not sunny summer day outside like I love. I don’t even know if I’m saying this right. Crew nga bin. Have you heard? A crew nga bin? 1:04:10 – Jeff PelizzaroNo. 1:04:10 – Jake HuttI don’t even know how to spell it. There’s like 8,000 letters in this, in this band. But it’s like it’s like vibey stoner hippie music. It’s kind of like got some country vibes. It’s like it’s just, it’s so relaxing. I that’s like Some of my, some of a fun outlandish one that if you’ve never heard of it, super there, they’re awesome. 1:04:30 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, we’ll figure out how to spell that. We’ll throw that one in the show. All right, I want Jake Hutt to define the word dusty. 1:04:39 – Jake HuttOh, dusty, god. It can mean absolutely anything. It can be good, it can be bad, it’s all about. It’s kind of like I was just watching what’s that movie? Good, donnie Brasco and they’re in in Johnny Depp is trying to define forget about it, yeah Right, when, like, he puts it into all these, like he’s like it can forget about. It can be this, and then different tone can be that. It can also be this, it can also be that. So, like it started out, I mean, it does these. It’s a hockey term, right, dusty is like a. It’s been used forever. I definitely didn’t make it up. Dusty is like. I Guess that the technical dusty word, which is an word at all, is just means like it, it’s bad, it sucks. Like that Person that, like that sticker, that pair look at how dusty that is. Like it’s just, it’s not good, but it’s evolved. It’s evolved like the podcast, that, that that I did. It’s just. It’s taken on so many forms. It can mean anything, just about how you use it, the tone you use. This. I’m learning so many new words with my son being in high school. 1:05:49 – Jeff PelizzaroThere’s so much new that and it the greatest thing in the world is if you’re, if you ever become a parent all the, all the dads and moms listening Will appreciate this is learning the new words and then purposefully using them incorrectly in front of your kids, especially at the dinner table. I it just it. I mean it just grinds their brains, I mean it just grinds their teeth. You know it’s, it’s one of the things I live for these days. 1:06:14 – Jake HuttThat’s awesome. What’s what’s one of the words coming up now I heard like Riz is Riz one. Riz is one. Yeah, what is that? 1:06:21 – Jeff Pelizzaroone. It kind of me. I think it comes from charisma, you know, like that guy’s got Riz, okay, yeah, and real creative with it. Yeah, what’s another one? I still don’t totally understand this one. But cap and no cap, like no cap means like I’m not lying or like. 1:06:41 – Jake HuttIt’s like exclamation point, isn’t it kind of like? It’s like, I guess so I don’t know. 1:06:45 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, we’ll have Sam, we’ll have Sam define all these. But yeah, there’s oh yeah and then sus, of course, is is one. 1:06:53 – Jake HuttOh sus, yeah, yeah, I remember hearing that one for the first time. Yeah, that’s like, and I’m old. Yeah, exactly, well, imagine having a teenage kid. 1:07:01 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s how you end up feeling. All right, last one here what’s what’s the sickest course that you’ve played this year? And then what’s one course maybe off the radar course, that that you want to get to? 1:07:13 – Jake HuttLet’s see my, I mean Lake Merced just got redone out here In San Francisco and I absolutely love that golf course. That. That’s been my favorite one this year, definitely. And then let’s see pretty I mean pretty standard Rotation out here. I don’t, when I travel I don’t get to play a whole lot of golf like I. I’m like the least traveled golfer ever. I haven’t played in very many states. I’ve played all the courses here in California. So, karik, chuck, karika, karika, there’s north and south Public golf course, australian sand belt style golf. You know lots of hit like not not the prettiest Course ever, but it’s just a different style course out here. And they have they didn’t finish the back nine of the north course, so just nine holes and you can only walk and it’s just like kind of. It’s just a like a fun vibe out here. You know most courses out here, lots of trees, this is just kind of a fun. This is just kind of a fun. We just go and you just walk around and like there aren’t any carts out there. You just got kind of vibe to it. So I’ll say Karika, north, I Could say Stanford, I mean please, stanford is is a great kind of hidden gem out here that I don’t think a lot of people have played or maybe even heard about or know about, like on the higher end. Stanford is incredible. It’s an incredible shape. They hired the superintendent from the course they play. That Used to be the safe way open. Now it’s the Some security Fortnet. Oh yeah, I think the first turn of the year. So they hired that superintendent. He just like the, the course, just in immaculate condition, so that maybe one let flies a little bit more into the radar. Awesome course. So maybe those, those three. 1:08:57 – Jeff PelizzaroSweet, and is there a place that’s on your list? If you do get a chance to travel, like, say, say, we had the 18STRONG jet Fuelled up ready to go, where’s Jake going? 1:09:07 – Jake HuttGod, I like I I probably wouldn’t go for any of the obvious ones like there’s you get like Pine Valley sounds pretty cool, that’s I feel like that’s an obvious one too. And like I don’t care about playing Augusta that’s too too obvious. I love like Tory on a nice day is just like the most beautiful place ever. It’s got a relaxing vibe like Maybe you don’t have to wear a collared shirt out there. Honestly, I don’t know. Maybe somewhere in Hawaii I’ve got a good friend of mine who’s a pro out there in Hawaii at Koalina, and he keeps telling me about these insane courses I’ve never heard of. So I might just fly over there, meet up with him and just have him take me to one of those courses, whichever ones those are. I’m not like a massive like course architect nerd. So, like I said, I still have some learn to do on that end. So I’m just gonna go to Hawaii and I’ll figure out somewhere fun to play out there, wherever that is. 1:10:01 – Jeff PelizzaroI can’t imagine many prettier views than awful one of those islands that’s. 1:10:05 – Jake HuttI know right. 1:10:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSpecial, awesome. All right, man. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. It’s always great hanging with you and I know you’re gonna continue putting out a ton of content. Hopefully we’ll be seeing a drive box here in St Louis one of these days and yes, you know, I will for sure. I will for sure, man. Thanks again for coming on and we’ll talk to you soon, absolutely Thanks so much for having me. 1:10:29 – Jake HuttThis was a blast. Happy to do anytime if there’s anything I do to help. 1:10:37 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG podcast with Jake Hutt. If you want any more information on Jake or drive box, or you’re looking to maybe franchise one of those drive boxes, just go to 18STRONG calm. This is episode number 352. We’ll have all the information there in the show notes, so check up again with us. Next week We’ll have another great guest. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page