Learn True Health with Ashley James

Get Kathleen Gage's training for free: https://www.learntruehealth.com/powerup IT'S HERE! Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen Use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Check out IIN and get a free module: LearnTrueHealth.com/coaching Join the Facebook group: LearnTrueHealth.com/group Song: MBB - Beach (Vlog No Copyright Music) Music provided by Vlog No Copyright Music. Video Link: https://youtu.be/bfjxyOtpvlA   Why Food and Mindset Are Critical To Success https://www.learntruehealth.com/why-food-and-mindset-are-critical-to-success   Highlights: Inflammation was gone after going whole food plant-based Benefits of going whole food plant-based on physical activities What’s the quality of life you want? Headaches disappeared after going whole food plant-based Don’t believe everything at face value Tips on how to start a podcast How to get on other people’s podcast   How do you lose weight healthily while still eating a lot? A doctor told Kathleen Gage that she would need to lose weight or have a heart attack and stroke. She has tried many diets, but the best diet she’s tried is going on a whole food plant-based diet. Since going plant-based, Kathleen has more energy to run and finish marathons, and she’s not at risk of having a heart attack and stroke. Besides sharing her whole food plant-based journey, she also gives us tips on how to start a podcast and how to get on other people’s podcasts.   Intro: Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. You’re going to love today’s interview with Kathleen Gage. She’s giving away her program for you for free with a bunch of free goodies as well that she’s put together. You can get everything that she’s giving us, the Learn True Health listeners, by going to learntruehealth.com/powerup, that’s learntruehealth.com/powerup. I also want to make sure that you know about the Learn True Health Home Kitchen. If you’re looking to increase the amounts of fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes beans, and whole healthy greens in your diet if you want to increase the amount of nutrient density in your diet to stave off infection and disease, support your body’s ability to heal itself, and maintain optimal health, then join the Learn True Health Home Kitchen. Just go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen and check it out. Be sure to use the coupon code LTH for the listener discount. So go to these two links today, one is learntruehealth.com/powerup for the free goodies that Kathleen Gage is giving you, and go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen to get the free tour and check out the membership site that I created for you with all these wonderful recipes and healing information, so you can walk into the kitchen and use your kitchen to support your body’s ability to heal itself. Delicious recipes that support you and your family in optimal health, learntruehealth.com/homekitchen.  I hope to see you there. Enjoy today’s interview.   [00:01:47] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 428. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have a really special guest. Kathleen Gage has been an inspiration to me for several years. Kathleen, I met you back in I want to say 2012 or 2013 back in Portland.   [00:02:15] Kathleen Gage: Yeah, it was quite a few years ago. I remember it well. It was at the old historic hotel. Drawing a blank on the name of it, but down in a lower room. Yeah, I remember it.   [00:02:29] Ashley James: It was really beautiful. Kathleen was leading a weekend workshop for entrepreneurs that was like a personal growth and mindset workshop, something you’ve done for many years. My husband and I really enjoyed it. We enjoyed connecting with all the wonderful people in your class and learning from you. Then afterward, we became Facebook friends, and I followed your journey. Your life has gone in a similar direction as mine has. It was really interesting to see what has transpired. I’m really excited for you to share your story today. You have two platforms that are merging together. You teach people how to make their own podcasts, so entrepreneurs but also holistic health professionals, health coaches. You teach how to make a podcast that, how to market your podcast, and how to grow it so that you can get more clients, you can educate, and help. You can really help people because I know that your entire mission is about helping people. Then you have this other platform based on what’s happened in your life the last few years that has led you to become a health coach of sorts. I’m going to step back, and I really would love you to paint the picture of your life because you have this amazing life story. It really does help us understand the work that you do and how you can help us now.   [00:04:01] Kathleen Gage: Thank you. It’s so interesting the journey that my life and my business have taken because I’ve had my business for 26 years. I started as a corporate trainer, and I was working with a lot of government agencies. Through the process of just my own personal growth and the evolution of business, now where we’re at with the whole COVID-19 situation, what I really focus on is helping experts who have a big mission. They want to get their message out to the market to either start a podcast show and use that as a platform to get their message out, or to get on a lot of podcast shows and saturate the market with their message in the most appropriate way. On the flip side, I actually discovered plant-based eating. I’m coming up on about 20 months of being a plant-based eater. Initially, I started because I’m going to be 66 very shortly. Like a lot of women my age, I was getting inflammation, so I was looking for a solution. Everything led me back to plant-based eating. What’s amazing is within a couple of days of deciding to go plant-based, this was back in September of 2018, the inflammation was gone. The first week I dropped five pounds, and I wasn’t doing it as a diet, but I thought, hey, I’ll take it. Within about three months, I dropped 38 pounds, I had more energy than I’d had in a long time, and the most important thing, which I love, Ashley, is that it was so aligned with my love of animals. Amazingly, I’ve worked in the pet industry for years. That came about as a result of doing a lot of animal rescue. I did a fundraiser for one of our rescues, and somebody from the pet industry saw me, asked me if I’d come and speak at a conference. One thing led to another, and at one point, about 50% of my business was in the pet industry. One day, before I actually went plant-based, I remember feeling like there was a disconnect between rescuing animals, loving animals so much, talking about the well-being of animals, and eating animals. When I went plant-based, it was that big aha like that’s what the disconnect was. I was so out of alignment with what I said was true, but I wasn’t walking the talk. Now, where my life is is that I do have two primary—what I call—buckets in my life and my business. One is working with experts—really helping them to gain the visibility to get their message out to market, and also living a very plant-based life. I’ve got a Facebook group, I’ve got a podcast, I’ve got a blog, and I’m so passionate about getting the message out about plant-based eating. What it does for your health, what it does for animals, and what it does for the planet.   [00:06:46] Ashley James: I’m in your Facebook group, I love your Facebook group. I love the resources.   [00:06:50] Kathleen Gage: Thank you.   [00:06:52] Ashley James: Every day you’re posting articles and book recommendations. You’ve asked me a few times to share some episodes like my interviews with Dr. Joel Fuhrman and Dr. Neal Barnard. I’ve got a few really good ones where these doctors are reversing disease using diet. I love those interviews. I love interviewing doctors who have the clinical experience of completely reversing diabetes, and this is type 2 diabetes, obviously. You can significantly improve type 1 diabetes with plant-based eating. When I say plant-based I mean whole foods plant-based, no processed foods, no oil, for example. We have seen, under the care of these doctors, type 1 diabetics, significantly reduce their insulin usage healthfully even though they’re eating more carbohydrates. It blows their minds because they’re actually eating more carbs. Of course, they’re completely different carbs so this shouldn’t even be called carbs. A banana, a donut shouldn’t be both called carbs. It’s just two totally different things to the body. So type 1 diabetics are significantly improving their health and lowering their medical expenses. Type 2 diabetics are 100% reversing type 2 diabetes. Heart disease patients who have actual blockages in the heart are reversing blockages in the heart, are getting off of medications, getting so healthy that they’re getting off of medication, and the list goes on and on. A dear friend of mine, Naomi, went plant-based last summer. I remember the day. She came from her appointment where she was told she had heart disease, and she had had Angina. She goes for daily walks, but she was winded, walking slowly, and she could never keep up with her three kids. She was getting chest pain, tachycardia, and heart skipping. Her heart was skipping and also beating fast. In the middle of the night, she’d wake up with her heart skipping and beating fast, and it was scaring her. She thought it was her hormones, she thought it was the EBV that she’s been fighting for years, and it turned out it was actually heart disease. She came over to our house, and she thought how am I going to get my family to eat whole food plant-based? She came straight to our house from that appointment, and I had just made fresh rolls—like these big wraps with these leafy greens wrapped with a bunch of vegetables inside. I made a homemade peanut dipping sauce, and she loved it. She said, “Man, I could make this for my family.” She proceeded to go home and start her plant-based journey that day. Then her family got on board with her, her three kids got on board. She’s not strict with them. If they go out, they’re going to eat meat outside the house, but there’s no meat in the house, and they’re actually really happy. They love the food she cooks. But then, she got her parents to go plant-based. Her dad, who had heart surgery. Both of her parents have arthritis. They’re maybe a little bit older than you, and her mom, within weeks of going whole food plant-based, her arthritis was 100% gone. Her pain was 100% gone. She couldn’t believe it. Not only is she losing some excess weight she had problems with, but all of her inflammation, all of her joint stiffness and pain went away within weeks. This is the thing I’m hearing over and over again. It’s so exciting. You started eating whole food plant-based, and you started noticing these changes in your body. Then what happened?   [00:10:32] Kathleen Gage: Dramatic changes. A great example is this morning, I went on a 2 ½ mile run, and that’s a low run, that’s a small run for me. It hit me as I was getting ready today, I thought, wow, here I am. I’m going to be 66 years old. I remember growing up when you looked at somebody in their 60s, they were old. I look at a lot of women my age and they’re really old because they have bought into the belief that there’s not much they can do, but when you change the way you eat, when you change what you put into your body, and you get rid of the inflammation producing foods, a lot can change. For me it’s I have much more energy, I have incredible focus. It’s so amazing right now with all that’s going on, so much stress in the world, and that people are getting sucked into this downward mindset that for me, I’m not stressed. I’m not feeling the stress that a lot of people are feeling, and I felt guilty a few days ago. I was like, what’s wrong with me? Why am I not feeling what everybody else is feeling? Well, I’m not eating what everybody else is eating. Now, there was a period in my life when I was caretaking my mom, and she passed away in 2011. As I was her caretaker, I was consuming so much sugar and processed food, and I had gained. I was at my heaviest weight. I was 212 pounds at that point. I had no energy, I was depressed a lot, I was sad a lot, and of course, when you’re losing your mom you’re probably going to be sad. I’ve often thought, I wonder what my life would have been like and how I would have been able to respond even more than I already did had I not been eating the way I had been eating. So for me, I feel like I’ve discovered the fountain of youth. I follow all the doctors like Dr. Fuhrman, Dr. Campbell, Dr. Greger, I follow all of them, and I really love their work. I also love talking to people that have had these reversals like your friend. I like talking to individuals who have had life-changing experiences. I interviewed a gentleman the other day. Brian Rogers is his name. He was 300 pounds, had six major diseases, had liver disease, he had heart disease, and he was borderline diabetes. It was just phenomenal what was going on in his life and his health. He was going to get bariatric surgery, and they decided to wait a little while because of insurance reasons. He looked at it and he said, “Okay, I need to make some dramatic changes.” That was 140 pounds ago, that was six diseases ago. He’s reversed every single disease. When people say that there’s nothing they can do about their health, they need to look at is that true or is it that you haven’t explored one more option? Because the one more option they have just so much amazing information on what plant-based eating can do for people. For me, as I get older, I keep getting healthier, and healthier, and healthier. The last time I went for my physical, my doctor, she just kept doing this. She goes, “Your numbers are amazing. These are some of the best numbers I’ve ever seen. They’re getting better and better every time I see you.” The first time I saw her when I went plant-based, it was about three months into it. She was just like, “This is incredible.” Because at one point, she said, “You better lose some weight. You better do something with your health because you’re ready to have a heart attack, and you’re ready to have a stroke.” She goes, “You’re not a kid anymore, and you need to realize you’re putting your life at risk.” She was going to put me on some medication. I said, “Well, let me lose some weight.” Of course, I did what most people do, I went on a crash diet. Lost some weight, but then I gained it all back and some. For the first time in my life, I don’t diet, I don’t count calories, and I eat a lot. As you said, it’s the difference in the type of carbohydrates that we eat. Unfortunately, carbs have gotten a really bad rap because it’s not the carbs themselves, it’s the type of carbs—the sugar, the doughnuts, the cookies, all of the bad foods. I would encourage people that if you’re feeling like you’re not living up to your full potential, give it a shot for a week. Try 100% plant-based, and what that means is as close to nature as possible. A lot of people assume, Ashley, that it means that you’re only going to eat salads, and there are so many choices. Oh my gosh. Actually, for breakfast, this is bizarre. For breakfast, we’ve been taught that we need bacon and eggs, pancakes, toasts, and all this stuff. For breakfast today what I had was split pea soup. It’s homemade split pea soup with leeks in it, with onions in it, and with carrots in it. I made it from scratch, and that was so good. The energy it gives me is unflipping believable.   [00:15:37] Ashley James: I love it. Yeah, we have to question our belief system around food. The belief that we need cereal, we need a certain breakfast, or we need a certain lunch. Just know that there’s this whole world of what we don’t know we don’t know out there. I love that lesson I learned from Landmark Education way back when I was a teenager. I took the Landmark Forum, which is a personal growth and development course. They say the world is made up—there are three things. The world is the things you know you know, like you know you know how to drive, right? That’s a small percentage of the world, let’s say it’s 5%. You know you know how to set the timer on your phone like the things you know you know. Then there are the things you know you don’t know, and you know that you don’t know how to operate a rocket ship, right? You know you don’t know how to fly on a trapeze, the things you know you don’t know. That’s maybe a bit larger. Maybe it’s 25%, but then the majority of the circle is comprised of things you don’t know you don’t know. We live life like the only things that exist are things we know we know and things we know we don’t know. We tend to ignore, we tend to negate this whole other world, which is the majority of existence out there, like the stuff we don’t know we don’t know. When all of a sudden we learn something we didn’t know we didn’t know, it’ll hit us hard. Either we accept it and we go, wow, this is new information. I didn’t even know this was possible. I didn’t know I could heal my body with food 100% and not with drugs. We accept it or we reject it because it doesn’t match our belief system of, well, this doesn’t fit into the box of the things I knew I didn’t know and so I’m going to reject it. We have to be careful. We need to make sure we keep our minds open enough, which I think my listeners do that’s why they’re here listening. They’re listening for what they don’t know they don’t know and the aha moments that come from that. You were having those revelations, right? Because like you said, you didn’t diet but as you switched over to plant-based eating, can you share some of the aha moments as you were learning from these doctors?   [00:18:13] Kathleen Gage: Absolutely. It’s also interesting about what we think we know that we know, and it’s based on hearsay, it’s based on propaganda, it’s based on media, and it’s based on marketing dollars. Most people think they know that they need to have animal protein, and that is the furthest thing from the truth. The first thing I often get from people when I say that I’m plant-based is, where do you get your protein? I know that you’ve heard that too. Well, you get your protein from beans, from legumes, and from greens. I mean, plant-based food has as much if not more protein than animal-based, but it doesn’t have all the garbage that goes with it. For people to look at what do you think that you know that you know that maybe you don’t know that you don’t know—it’s like a tongue twister on that one. With factory farming, for example. I had a woman the other day who got upset because I posted something about the factory farms that are being shut down. I said, “Yay, I’m so glad that’s happening,” and she got defensive. Apparently, her family has a family farm. I said, “The two are night and day.” I said, “The way that family farms are run compared to factory farms are night and day, so don’t take it so personally because personally, I’m very glad that the factory farms are shutting down, and I would like to see more sustainable food being grown so that it’s healthier.” Because you look at our health system, and what has happened with COVID-19 was really the straw that broke the camel’s back. The system was broken, and for it to fall apart that quickly with this crisis indicates that something we were doing is really wrong. We need to get into the foundation and fix the foundation. As far as the things that I’ve learned, one I’ve learned a lot about nutrition, so much in fact that I decided to get my certificate of completion from eCornell University. March 2nd is when I graduated from that course. It was pretty phenomenal to just learn where the studies come from. For example, when you read a study, maybe it says this study says that milk is good for bones, it makes strong bones. Well, 9 times out of 10 that study is going to be funded by the milk industry and the dairy industry. When you’re reading a study, you want to look at who funded the study. That’s one thing that I’ve learned in the time that I’ve been plant-based. Another thing that I’ve learned is I really love cooking. I never like to cook. That comes from a previous marriage. When I was 19 I got married to my high school sweetheart, and he was very demanding with the way that I cook. I was working all day, I would come home, and he wanted me to cook. I ended up hating cooking because nothing I did was good enough. I mean, it turned out to be a pretty bad marriage. We were married for three years, got divorced, and it was a rather abusive relationship. I actually formed a belief that I was a bad cook. I formed a belief that I hated cooking until I went plant-based and I started experimenting because nobody was going to cook for me unless I cooked when it came to plant-based. It was like the thing with your friend where she started and then pretty soon, her kids got into it and her parents got into it. What I’m finding is I have friends and family now that are going plant-based as a result of me cooking for them. They’re like, “Wow, this is really good.” It’s like really, are you just telling me that, or is it really good? I’m like, “I think it’s good.” My mother in law, I love cooking for her because she’s in her mid-80s, she’s at high risk with the whole situation going on, and she has cystic fibrosis of the lungs. We have to be careful with her health and make sure that she eats really healthy. She’ll come over and she goes, “What kind of soup did you make today?” It’s like oh my gosh, I have somebody who loves my cooking. Of course, applaud me and I’ll cook more. I’ve learned that I really enjoy cooking, I’ve learned a lot about nutrition, I’ve learned to balance my meals, and I’ve learned that there were certain foods that I thought that I couldn’t do without that I absolutely don’t like anymore. I was so addicted to doughnuts, candy, and cookies. When I was eating sugar, I would go and buy a box of doughnuts—the six in a box doughnut. If anybody ate one of my doughnuts I got so upset that I would go and get another box and I would eat that box too. In one sitting, I would eat a box of doughnuts. Now, the thought of eating doughnuts just does not appeal to me at all. What I learned is my taste buds changed, and that’s what a lot of people fear is that they’re going to miss certain foods. Well, you find out that your body adjusts to that and your body craves the really healthy foods.   [00:23:07] Ashley James: Yes, it’s so true. It’s so true. I used to be a chocoholic, I used to totally be addicted to chocolate, and I used to totally be addicted to sugar. A few years ago, my husband and I did the 30-day sugar detox challenge, you know what I mean? Just cut out all sugar to the point where I got so strict. I’m a label reader, I read labels. I call myself a food detective. I think we should all be food detectives. If you’re going to buy something with ingredients on the package, read the ingredients, know what you’re eating. I love hot sauce, and that’s something that I didn’t ever love until I met my husband. He started ramping up the heat in our meals. Now I just absolutely love hot sauce. I was looking for hot sauce, and I was hard-pressed to find a hot sauce that didn’t contain sugar. I thought that’s interesting how much sugar is hidden in all of our foods. We’d been gluten-free since 2011, but I would get a gluten-free bread—sugars in it, what? I’d eat a gluten-free waffle—sugars in it, what? Now, I don’t eat cereal, but I’ve been looking because we have a five-year-old. I’m looking is there a healthy cereal out there that he can eat. There’s not one cereal that I can find that doesn’t have sugar in it, that’s just all-natural ingredients. It’s very hard to find. I did find something that was like made of lentils, just these little O’s that are made of lentils. Almost no grocery store carries them. I thought that Rice Krispies didn’t have sugar in them. When I was growing up, they didn’t, now they have sugar in them. For me, there’s sugar in everything. I couldn’t believe it. We did 30 days with no sugar, and I became so aware. When I say no sugar I mean no processed sugar, no cane sugar, no beet sugar, no maple syrup, no agave, just no processed sugar. I could still eat a banana, something natural I would have. For 30 days no sugar, my taste buds changed, and now, I have this 100% dark chocolate from Trader Joe’s sitting in the cupboard. It’s been sitting there for weeks. If I feel like I want some chocolate, I’ll take a little square, and I’ll eat it with half a date or a whole date. I don’t even need a whole date because it sweetens it, and then I’m fine. I’m like, oh, I’m fine. I look at it and it’s been sitting there. It’s slowly getting whittled away—one tiny square a week or something. I’m thinking to myself, first of all, I wouldn’t have bought the 100% dark chocolate because it wasn’t sweet. But in the past, I would have eaten three bars because I was a chocoholic. Now, when I open the cupboard and I see it there—this half-eaten bar still in its wrapping—I’m like, I don’t even want it. I don’t want it. I’m looking at it, it doesn’t thrill me, whereas before, it was like chocolate controlled me. Now it just has no thrill, but the food I’m cooking is amazing. I have friends that when we go over to their house, obviously not right now with all being quarantined, but when we go over their house I always bring food because they’re like we don’t know what to make you guys. I’m like great. Don’t worry about it. I’ll make you food. They had the question. They’re like, “Where do you get your protein from?” I said, “Plants,” and they’re just like, “What?” Like everyone, they think that there’s no protein in plants. I said, “Well, plants. Any plant. Just eat a plant you’re getting protein. It’s a misconception that protein isn’t in plants. I make the most delicious food—soups, stew. Yes, I did a salad last time I went there, but I sprouted lentils, which is the easiest thing to do. You look like a wizard in the kitchen. I sprouted lentils. I made sprouted lentil soup, it’s so easy. You can actually get kids to do it, it’s so easy to make kitchen sprouts in your kitchen. They’re really hard to mess up. Just the food is so delicious. There’s so much more flavor in this food. Of course. It’s also very healing. Tell me a bit about the nutrition course. You took a plant-based nutrition course from eCornell University. Tell us about your experience going through that certification.   [00:27:46] Kathleen Gage: What I realized was that I actually knew a lot more than I thought I knew because much of it was stuff I had already researched because I’m a researcher. I love reading books, I love watching videos, and I immerse myself in a topic. For example, I’ve been sober for 36 years. When I was out drinking, I drank until I blacked out. I mean, that’s just the kind of drinker I was. When it was time to stop, and it wasn’t that I one day said I think I’ll stop. It was like my life fell apart. I was out on the streets, I was broke, and I was broken the whole nine yards. I had to build my life from that point that was 36 years ago. I’m very black-and-white in a lot of ways. Once I decided to really immerse myself in this, I studied everything I could get my hands on. You name a book I probably read it. We’re talking everything from the China study, Eat to Live, Sugar Salt Fat, that book is really great for anybody who wants to find out about the hidden sugar and why we’re so addicted to it. When I took the course, I was actually pleasantly surprised at how much I did know. The one thing that I really discovered were the reports and really looking at studies that are done, that part was fascinating to me. One of the tasks that we had, we had to write articles, which I’m a writer so that was really easy for me. As I watched people struggling with that, I was like well this is so interesting. It’s something that now is a part of my life. We learned about nutrition, we learned about studies, we learned about different resources available, and this could be a springboard to other things we’re doing. For me, as I mentioned, I’m very black and white so when I started, I wrote an e-book. Within three months of going plant-based, I wrote the Beginner’s Guide to Plant Based Eating. I didn’t know there was another book by that name, but it was my journey of how I made the decision, what happened in the first three months, and then here are some healthy foods that you can eat. That book is available on my website. Then I started the Facebook group, then I started the blog, and then I started the podcast. One of my goals, when the whole situation is minimized and we can get out there and do speaking engagements again, I want to speak at conferences, not necessarily plant-based conferences but conferences where it’s about health and wellness, it’s about mindset, it’s about taking control of your life. When you were talking about the whole thing with sugar, a lot of people confuse the topic of sugar just like carbohydrates. Real natural sugar is good for us like the fruits that we have. Before we started this call, I actually made myself a drink. It’s a blended drink of fresh pineapple, fresh banana, and fresh orange. I put some water in there, I blend it up, and it’s a beautiful drink. It gives me so much energy, and I can’t believe that I just said it’s a beautiful drink. I look at food now and it’s so beautiful. I just get excited about food. I would recommend that people look at the books available that can change your life. One is Eat To Live by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. Fast Food Genocide, oh my gosh, that book is unbelievable. Sugar Salt Fat—you look at the controls that manufacturers have over people’s lives, it’s scary when you pull back the cover and you start digging deep. It’s no wonder that we have become such a sick society—physically sick, emotionally sick, and spiritually sick. It’s because we have these chemicals that are going into our body and we’re not even aware of it. When I started doing my research and I realized, like you said, reading the labels. How much sugar is in processed food? It’s scary. That’s how our kids are being raised. It’s so wonderful to hear that you’re raising your—it’s a son or a daughter?   [00:31:46] Ashley James: Son.   [00:31:47] Kathleen Gage: A son.   [00:31:48] Ashley James: I know it’s confusing because he has long hair, so does my husband. We’re just a bunch of hippies. We’re hairy hippies.   [00:31:53] Kathleen Gage: Hippies are good, hippies are good. I was thinking, this whole process that we’re all going through right now, what a great opportunity too. I was talking with Karen earlier. Karen’s my wife and we’ve been together 30 years. She does weight training, and she found some old equipment that she’s actually cleaning up and refurbishing. She goes, “We’ve become such a throwaway society.” She goes, “People just get things and they throw it away,” and it’s so true. We have become such a disposable throwaway society. What’s happening here is people are either resisting it 100% and they’re not looking at the blessing of what’s going on right now. Then other people are looking at it and saying what’s the lesson I can learn here, and what can I do differently in my life? For example, I became aware of how mindless I was about hopping in the car and running to the store, hopping in the car, riding to the post office instead of planning my trips out more consciously. This whole situation with COVID-19 is giving us the opportunity to step back, and we’ve been asked to stay in our homes. It’s the internal home that we get to go into. We get to dig deep and really look at what’s truly important in life. It’s interesting to hear how some people are really having struggles in their relationship because they’re spending so much time with their spouse. Karen and I have been talking about what a blessing it is that we get to do one more thing we get to go through together. That’s a difficult thing on some levels, but on other levels, it’s such a blessing. What I’ve noticed is that there are people that are becoming very conscious about the choices that they’re making and the actions that they take in. If anything, I hope that’s the lesson people take away from this experience.   [00:33:45] Ashley James: You mentioned the word distractions. You’re talking about people who are—you painted this picture for me. I don’t know if you said the word distractions exactly, but you painted a picture of the people who are either embracing this and learning from it, or the people who are stressed out, upset, and maybe distracting themselves. One of my favorite comedians is Zach Anner, I don’t know if you’ve heard of him. He has cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy lives in—   [00:34:17] Kathleen Gage: Yes, yes, yes.   [00:34:18] Ashley James: He is hilarious. He makes fun of himself, he makes fun of everything. He’s very intelligent—very, very intelligent humor. I laugh so hard I can barely contain myself, so I love Zach Anne. Not only is he a comedian, he wants to bring awareness to special needs and those with disabilities and also make people feel more comfortable so that we can have more connection and less distancing. One of his videos he recently made for Cerebral Palsy Awareness Month, which I think was February. It’s a very recent video that he just made this year. He shares the lessons he’s learned in the last 30 or 40 years of his life having cerebral palsy. In this particular video, it’s not a slapstick comedy like most of his videos. It’s actually very heartfelt, but one thing he said really hit me. He said, “Passions over distractions.” Let’s say video games, for example, or a distraction could be alcohol. What are you using to distract yourself versus your passions? If someone’s passionate about their gaming community, playing a video game with their friends, it’s not hurting their life to do it, and that’s are enriching them, that’s fine. But is it a distraction? Are you using it? Are you using something? It could be food, it could be alcohol, and it could be TV. Are you using something to distract yourself, or are you following your passions? He says, “Distractions will destroy your life, but following your passions will enrich your life.” I think right now, there are people who are following their passions in this time of restriction, and I think there are people who are diving into distractions. They’re going to come out of this not as enriched, obviously, as the people who are following their passions.   [00:36:33] Kathleen Gage: That is so spot-on. My sister is a fine artist, and she’s also a very social person. She spends a lot of time with friends, out at galleries, and her artwork is all over the Bay Area. She’s done very well as an artist. I asked her recently, I said, “How are you doing with all this?” She goes, “I’m loving it. This is giving me an opportunity to really dig deep into my art and express myself in a whole new way. I go to my studio and I work for hours on end. I get lost in the process of creating art. I don’t miss it at all. Now, when we’re able to go out again, I definitely will do it, but right now, I’m seeing this as a very spiritual process that I’m going through.” I absolutely love that. You’re right about the distractions or the passions. For me, I’ve been doing a lot more writing. As you were sharing that, I see in business people do that a lot where they get involved in the distraction of running their business, and they get involved in the minutia of running the business, and the little detail things that they could actually outsource. For a few bucks, they could get it done, but rather than paying $20, $30 to have somebody who can get it done right away, they spend hours and hours and hours trying to figure it out themselves, it’s like okay, and then they get frustrated. If you’re getting that frustrated, why don’t you invest in bringing somebody on who can help you to free up your time. With passions, I love that because as I’ve been writing—some of the articles I’ve written are maybe 1,500 to 2,000 words. I literally just do a download, I’m not really thinking about what I’m putting on the computer screen. I’m just sitting there typing, I’m channeling some thoughts, then I go through and I clean it up, and I do the research on it. But initially, I’ll get an idea based on something somebody said like with the factory farms closing down and people were getting frustrated, where’s our food going to come? The chain’s going to stop and the supply is going to end. No, this is wonderful. I’ve actually been writing a lot of the big show hosts like—I’m trying to think of the woman that I wrote today and it was on Good Morning America. They had somebody that was doing a plant-based recipe. I sent her my blog post. I’m reaching out to people, and I’m just sending my information. I have no idea where it’s going to land. It may land somewhere, it may not, but it’s something that I’m so committed to that I want to get the word out about the fact that just because the factory farms are closing down, it doesn’t mean that’s a bad thing. It means it could be a good thing, and let’s look at the other options for food. Now, granted a lot of people are losing jobs, but if they could make the transition and have more sustainable food, these people could work in a different environment and a healthier environment.   [00:39:37] Ashley James: As you were going through the Cornell certification, what things did you learn that you were really surprised to learn?   [00:39:51] Kathleen Gage: Again, I think it was more about where the studies are funded. That was the most shocking part to me.   [00:39:58] Ashley James: That was the biggest one?   [00:39:59] Kathleen Gage: Yeah, because there was a module where you had to dig deep and you had to bring proof to the table. You couldn’t just say I read a report and it was from such-and-such. You actually had to spend quite a bit of time documenting exactly where the information came from, and basically, you were a researcher and you were a detective to figure out who really funded that study that says that milk is good for our body, or who funded the study that said you need animal protein, or who funded the study saying bacon’s not bad for you. It was the pork industry, what a concept. For me, that was the biggest aha that I had is pulling back the covers and really looking at who’s behind it. For example, somebody sent me a video recently of a congressman who was talking about the food supply drying up because the factory farms are closing. I mean he made a good argument, it was a really good argument. I simply went on Google, did a little research, and I found out he’s funded by the pork industry, isn’t that interesting? He’s a voice for the pork industry, and it’s the pork industry who has funded him.   [00:41:12] Ashley James: Wow.   [00:41:13] Kathleen Gage: Yeah, yeah. It didn’t take long to figure that out because I learned it through the eCornell University course. Had I not learned that I probably would have taken what he was saying at face value, so of course, I did a blog post around don’t take everything at face value.   [00:41:31] Ashley James: One of my favorite books on all nutrition, probably my favorite nutrition book of all time is Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis. I mean I love all the books you’ve mentioned, they’re all really great. Proteinaholic was like the cherry on top of everything. It was everything for me. He sums it up so well, and I think it’s chapter 9, it’s up there in the later chapters of the book where he goes through studies. He goes through who funded the studies, and he completely tears it apart. He talks about all the studies that are grouped together that talk about how much we need dairy for our bones and all the studies that the dairy industry paid for. They do these studies where they do 100 different ones, for example. They do these small groups of people. The ones when the people don’t have good outcomes they throw it out, and they only keep the ones that have good outcomes. They’re cherry-picking the studies, and they keep repeating it until they can smudge the numbers to say that it is helpful right. But then, he goes through the science of showing, and I know that Dr. Neal Barnard paints this very well in his book about cheese. That when we consume dairy, we are depleting the mineral supply from our bones. Communities, countries that consume more dairy have more osteoporosis. Cultures that consume no dairy or very little dairy have very low rates of osteoporosis. We can look at those big numbers and see that there is a correlation there, but that dairy itself is not a great delivery system for minerals. One of my favorite Naturopaths who’s mentored me, Dr. Joel Wallach, he says, “Cows can’t make minerals. Let’s get this straight. You think you’re getting your minerals from a cow, cows don’t make minerals. Cows are fed supplements. They’re fed a feed with calcium in it.” He says, “Skip the middleman, take the supplements.” We’re all imagining cows are sitting out in a pasture grazing on grass, but let’s be honest, if you’re drinking milk, it’s coming from cows that have never seen grass in their life. They’re in a building their entire life since birth in a very small compound. They’re being fed a feed with supplements, antibiotics, and other stuff that’s not very great. They’re then making milk with some of those nutrients in it. You could just skip the middleman and take a supplement, or you could eat—if a cow was allowed to go out and graze, they’d get the minerals from the plants. We’d be skipping all the hormones, and all the immune compromising compounds of milk, but we’ve been marketed to since birth that milk is really good for us. We have to again see the marketing and realize that the industries that have to invest in marketing and lobbyists are not out for our health. There are no lobbyists for kale. There are no lobbyists to eat an apple, eat a banana, and eat some spinach. There’s no marketing in that, so you have to go, well if there’s an industry that will pay for studies, that will pay for lobbyists, and pay for marketing, why do they have to convince us to keep eating their food? The egg industry is legally not allowed to say eggs are healthy, legally. I thought that was very interesting. They have flashy commercials like with Kevin Bacon. Have you seen those commercials where Kevin Bacon is lying on the counter in the kitchen complimenting the wife for having made eggs with Kevin Bacon? Make eggs with Kevin Bacon?   [00:46:01] Kathleen Gage: I have not seen that one.   [00:46:03] Ashley James: They make these fun commercials, but they’re not actually out for our best interests in terms of our health.   [00:46:17] Kathleen Gage: I’ve thought of the very famous people who are part of the whole marketing process. Should they decide to go plant-based, what would that look like? Because they would be giving up some funding and a level of income that gives them a pretty good lifestyle, but also, they’re contributing to the ill health of a lot of people. Because the reality is, the majority of people in the world are lactose intolerant. The very thing that they’re saying, does a body good really doesn’t do a body good? African Americans are much more susceptible to that. The antibiotic issue, they have done studies where they’ve drawn blood from people that eat meat but they haven’t taken any antibiotics for quite a while and they find antibiotics in their body. What people don’t realize unless they do the research unless they get the real information is when they eat meat, they’re getting not only a lot of drugs, they’re getting the antibiotics, they’re getting the toxins, they’re getting the cholesterol, they’re getting all the bad things, and very little good. There’s not much good in the meat that’s processed in factory farms. I had a discussion with a friend of mine not too long ago who’s very integrated into the animal industry. She was saying, “Oh, Kathleen, you’re just making a big deal out of it. I grew up on a farm and we raised our animals with a lot of compassion. They only have one bad day.” I’m thinking that is the worst argument. One bad day, slit their throat and it’s a bad day. No, the life on a factory farm is a lifetime of pain, of suffering. If you follow the whole premise of energy, and that we take in a lot of energy from everything that we do—there’s a thing called earthing where you take your socks and shoes off and you put your feet on the earth and it balances your electoral energy. But when you put animal products into your body that have been raised in factory farms, energetically, you’re taking in pain, suffering, anger, and fear. It’s no wonder that people are so neurotic because, energetically, they’ve taken that into their body and it’s a constant. It’s not like it’s once or twice. When you really dig even deeper beyond the surface level of health but you go into the emotional and spiritual health—what I always invite people to do is before you eat that piece of meat, sit and meditate on where that meat came from. Take it back the whole process to when the cow was impregnated, then they had the baby, then the baby was taken away, then the cow lived a life of misery caged up, then they had their throat slit, then they were cut up, then they went through the whole process, and it was put on your plate. If you can still eat it, then God bless you.   [00:49:21] Ashley James: We’re taught that it’s healthy. Think about it, our grandmother, our mom cooked us this meat, gave it to us, and told us to eat our meat. It’s even in a rock song, don’t get your pudding unless you eat your meat. It’s something that we—from a very young age—have been taught is good for us. Some people say I feel good when I eat this way. I’ve been on over 30 diets in my life, probably over 40 diets at this point. I’d read a book, this doctor makes a lot of sense, okay I’m going to do this diet. I remember at times when I felt like meat made me feel good. Of course, I was incredibly unhealthy, and I was trying to find my health. It was simply because I wasn’t eating crap food. For a short period of time, I felt good on Atkins—not long. After three months on Atkins, I felt sicker than I’d ever had in my life, and I actually tried it three different times. I always felt there was something wrong with me that I couldn’t keep eating Atkins because Atkins is supposed to be really healthy, so there’s something wrong that I can’t eat bacon all day, right? I kept failing on this diet. Well, Dr. Garth Davis, in his book Proteinaholic, paints this picture so well. He explains that you did not fail this diet, this diet failed you. This diet was not healthy. With all the science, he breaks down why that diet is not healthy, why we’re not supposed to eat a carnivorous diet. The human body is not designed to do that long term. We can do it short term as part of survival, it doesn’t mean it creates optimal health. Dr. Joel Fuhrman says, “Listen, just because it makes you feel good doesn’t mean it’s healthy. Cocaine is going to make you feel good, it doesn’t mean it’s healthy.” This idea of in the short term, some way of eating, for example, I feel good when I eat salmon, pork, or I feel good when I eat eggs in the morning. That I feel good doesn’t necessarily equate to it’s a better health choice for your body.   [00:51:46] Kathleen Gage: Absolutely.   [00:51:47] Ashley James: I noticed everyone who gets on a whole food plant-based diet, or at least consumes more vegetables, more plants—because some people can transition. I transitioned slowly, my husband overnight. He woke up one morning, this was almost 2 ½ years ago, he woke up and said, “I’m never eating meat again.” Me, it took me after that because I had decided to stop cooking meat. I slowly transitioned, and I was consuming all this information, but I slowly transitioned to where I wasn’t eating meat 100%. Some people will cut back their meat consumption, and cut back their animal products—their eggs and their dairy—and they’ll start to feel the shift, and there is a shift. I’ve gotten so much information from people saying that a whole food plant-based diet has been life-changing for them, has been amazing. They feel they have so much endurance. You run marathons now. Tell us about your endurance. Tell us about the amazing physical fitness you’ve gotten over the last 20 months of eating a whole food plant-based diet.   [00:52:56] Kathleen Gage: I’d be happy to, but I will tell you that my claim to fame is I always come in last on a marathon, so there it is. I’m not a fast runner. When I first started running, I had people say are you going to win? Oh, hell. If I can cross the finish line without dying I’m good to go. I’m not a fast runner, but I’m a persistent runner. The first time I tried I did power walking. I had heard a commercial from the Lymphoma Leukemia Society. I was overweight at the time and they were saying, “Do you need to lose weight? Do you like to do good things for the community? Then join us for this run for life,” or whatever they call it. I thought okay I’m going to. I started doing power walking and was getting in pretty good shape. Of course, doing the crash diet because that’s all I knew at the time, still eating meat. I was probably doing the bone broth diet, or I was doing the Atkins, or whatever I was doing. What’s so interesting is I was going to do the Portland Marathon and this was when I was 55. I was on mile 8 of a training day and something told me that I should stop, but I went against that. My gut was saying stop, stop, stop. Next thing I know I hit a pothole and I cracked my ankle and literally heard it crack. It was awful. Turns out, yes, I did break it. I was so frustrated because I had put so much effort into losing the weight, I had put effort into the training. As it turned out, I believe that there’s always a higher purpose for what’s going on. Right after I broke my ankle, my dad was diagnosed with brain and lung cancer, and within four weeks he passed away. I think that it was life slowing me down to literally stop in my tracks to be there as fully as I could be there. I stopped for quite a while, and it was when I was 60 that I picked up the sport again. I was doing power walking, and then I got involved with a group of women that would run on Saturdays. We called ourselves the slow fat girls. We were the slow fat girls because I had gained weight again. I was like this is pretty cool. I started getting faster and faster and never got to where I was going to win a marathon, but I enjoyed the sport because I was finding it was very meditative, I was connecting with these women, and we’d get together once a week, and then when it was twice a week we were training for marathons. The first marathon I did was at 61. Again, I finished last so I’m proud of that.   [00:55:31] Ashley James: The fact that you finished is amazing—finishing a marathon. I don’t know if even 10% of our listeners have finished a marathon. How many miles is a marathon, 16, 18?   [00:55:43] Kathleen Gage: 26.2.   [00:55:46] Ashley James: 26 miles.   [00:55:48] Kathleen Gage: 26.2. It’s so funny because I actually hired a trainer because I wanted to do it the right way. I think I coaxed her into coaching me, and I said, “Tell me what you charge, I’ll pay you.” She goes, “I don’t really coach people.” I said, “But you do marathons. Please, coach me, coach me.” So she gave me a price, I gave her a check, and she started coaching me. She really wasn’t into it. On the day of the marathon at mile 19, I was dying. I was in such pain, and Karen was on her bike next to me going, “Come on, you got to do it, you got to do it.” My coach came up, and she said, “You know, 19 miles is respectable. You could quit,” and Karen goes, “The hell she will. If you quit now you will never forgive yourself. Get off your ass, get up. I don’t care if you crawl across the finish line.” That’s what I needed. I love that woman dearly thank you so very much, and of course, I’m cursing her out and everything, but I crossed the finish line. She said, “You had to finish. You worked so hard for this, you had to do it,” and I did. The next year, all I wanted to do was improve my time, and I improved my time by an hour and a half. Now, what I do is I do half marathons. I did do a sprint triathlon for my 64th birthday. For my 66th birthday, I have no idea what I’m going to do because we’re under quarantine right now, we have to stay home. I don’t know that I can go do anything, but I go running on a daily basis. I usually get in anywhere from 2 to 5 miles. Today was a little day like I mentioned, it was 2 ½ miles. I thought isn’t that pretty amazing? What I find is, since going plant-based, I do go longer distances, I’m not as exhausted, and the recovery time is amazing. That’s where I really noticed an improvement is the inflammation is not there like it used to be. The first marathon I ran, I literally for days I was down. I couldn’t move hardly, I was in such pain. Now, if I go on a 10-15 mile run, the next day it’s like okay, let’s go do something else and it’s no big deal.   [00:58:01] Ashley James: There’s a big difference between being a vegetarian or being a vegan and being a whole food plant-based. Some people have reported to me, well yeah, I did that thing. I went vegetarian and I didn’t feel healthy, or I still had my inflammation, I still had my brain fog. When I was 16 I decided to go vegetarian for the summer. I was really into studying Reiki, and the person who was going to teach me Reiki said I had to stop eating animals as part of the energetics because you’re better at doing Reiki when you don’t eat animals. I was just like, “Okay, I’ll do whatever you say. I want to learn this.” Well, what did I eat? I went across the street. I worked at a spa as the receptionist and managed the front end of the spa. It was an all-natural spa, it was cool. They had no chemicals. I mean, this is back in the 90s. They had essential oils, they had Aveda products before Aveda was bought out by the big company that bought it out—I think L’Oréal. But it was all-natural skincare and hair care products. This is in Muskoka in Canada. I went ahead and had this great summer job. I just loved it, but what did I do? Every day, I walked across the street and I bought a cheese pizza because it was vegetarian, right? Of course, I knew I was allergic to dairy, I bought a cheese pizza or I bought a vegetarian sub, and then I’d come home and make pasta. There are almost no vegetables in my life. There was 100% processed flour, wheat, carbs, and dairy—even though I knew I was allergic to dairy. I was a teenager so I’m not going to make the best choices. I felt horrible. Within a matter of months, I gained 25 pounds even though I was physically active. I just felt exhausted and horrible. Then I started eating meat, I stopped eating the processed crap, and I went back to eating meat, vegetables, and things like that. I thought meat makes me feel good and vegetarian is bad. This idea got clicked into my head, and I’ve met so many other people that say this that I tried that and it didn’t feel good. It’s two totally different things. Whole food plant-based is cutting out processed crap food that you may have never in your life lived for one-week—solid seven days—without at least eating some processed food. Doing so, cutting it totally out, is life-changing. It makes such a big difference. As you said, the inflammation goes down, but people become afraid, what am I going to eat? What can I eat? I know that you have pointed out a lot of resources. My friend and I created a video training on—it’s like a little membership. We filmed ourselves in the kitchen for months, we filmed ourselves cooking. It’s a cooking membership, teaching people how to do that. There are so many resources on YouTube. You can also just search for whole food plant-based on YouTube. But Kathleen, you have resources, you have a book that you’ve written, you have your Facebook group, which I love your Facebook group. There are tons of resources, but you have now entered what you don’t know you don’t know, and you’re starting to take it in and go okay, now I’m realizing that I don’t know that there’s this whole world of delicious foods that are so healing to my body that I don’t even know how great I could feel one month from now.   [01:01:57] Kathleen Gage: You’re bringing up some really good points because there’s a huge difference between being vegan and being plant-based. It’s interesting because in one Facebook group that I belonged to, there was a big argument that some vegans were attacking plant-based eaters saying you eat meat, and I said “No, I actually don’t. I’m 100% whole food plant-based. That means the elimination of all meat.” Now, in theory, and ethically, I am a vegan. I mean I don’t eat any animal products. When I buy shoes, I make sure it’s not leather. I am looking at all the different aspects of what it means to be vegan, but as far as the eating, it is whole food plant-based, which means as close to nature as possible. A lot of beans, a lot of legumes, a lot of greens, and a lot of fruits. One of the best books for anybody just starting out would be Joel Furman’s book Eat To Live because he really outlines it. Then there’s the whole discussion of do you eat oil, do you not eat oil? I choose the non-SOS, which is no added sugar, no added salt, no added oil—processed oil. I eat nuts, I eat avocados. I think that we have to give ourselves permission to make mistakes on it, whatever you consider a mistake because I have to say that sometimes, I do fall victim to my craving for salt. It’s so interesting, it’s like anything. For me, if I ever took a drink again, I have no idea where it would take me, and I don’t want to find out because I’ve had people say don’t you think you could have one drink? It’s like I don’t know and I don’t care. I just know that when I did drink—I probably quit dozens of times. Every time that I went back to it, it was worse than the time before, so I’m not willing to mess with bait. It’s the same with the foods that I eat. This is what I need to do for me. I think that people need to choose what’s right for them. What it all boils down to is what’s the quality of life that you want? What’s the quality of life that you want to give your children? What’s the quality of life that you want to give your relationship? It’s not really about what’s right or wrong, it’s really about what is the quality of life that you deserve to have so that you can have the vibrancy, the focus, the balancing of moods, and just the energy to live fully. Because I got to tell you, there’s something really exciting when I go out on a run, and I think to myself, I’m a senior citizen. When I got my Medicare, it was like yeah, that’s pretty cool. Because that’s not what I thought it would feel like. I remember when I was on the phone with Social Security doing all the stuff around Medicare, I was joking with the kid on the phone. I was telling him what I did that day for a run, what I eat, and all that. He goes, “I wish everybody was like you.” It’s like, “Oh well, I’m trying.” I’m trying with my blog, with my Facebook group, with my books, and I’m working on another book that’s going to go up on Amazon. It’s going to probably be called Discover the Real Fountain of Youth. But it is about the quality of life that people want, and what are you willing to do to get that? I remember when I quit drinking, I had a sponsor who said to me, “You have to want to be sober more than you want that drink, it’s that simple.” Sometimes, we complicate the whole issue of health and vibrancy, and it doesn’t have to be that complicated. It’s very, very simple. What are we willing to put into our bodies to honor our bodies to give us the life that we deserve?   [01:05:42] Ashley James: So beautiful. You’re 66 now?   [01:05:49] Kathleen Gage: Well, next month. In May I’ll be 66.   [01:05:50] Ashley James: You’re 65, you’re turning 66, you can just get up in the morning, and you can run a few miles. It doesn’t hurt you to run a few miles. It makes you feel great.   [01:06:07] Kathleen Gage: I love it.   [01:06:08] Ashley James: That’s something that so many people in their 60s can’t do right now. That they don’t have the health even to just get up and run 3-5 miles. There are people who are younger than you who can’t run 3-5 miles a day and feel healthy. You started running before you went plant-based.   [01:06:34] Kathleen Gage: I did, I did.   [01:06:35] Ashley James: Tell me how soon did you notice a difference in your running after going whole food plant-based?   [01:06:43] Kathleen Gage: Within days. It was so incredible how quickly I noticed that the inflammation left. That was initially why I started a plant-based diet. I had inflammation in my right hand, and as a writer, that was limiting me. Then I noticed it in my recovery time, so almost immediately. What’s interesting with the whole issue of health, if you look at the people that are being most compromised by the COVID situation, the ones who are at highest risk are the ones who have diabetes, heart disease, they have high blood pressure, the obesity issue. There’s a lot of reasons why people are dealing with complications, and so much of it has to do with their nutrition. For me, the change was so rapid. It was almost unbelievable. I was like could it really have happened that quickly? I just steadily noticed improvements. I sometimes look at myself now and I go wow. I’ll look at my bone structure and the toneness of my body, I didn’t expect that kind of a result. It seems like I’m getting healthier and healthier every single day.   [01:07:58] Ashley James: It would be cool to do bone scans every year and see it—   [01:08:03] Kathleen Gage: I’ve had it done, I’ve had it done. When you get to 65 they do it automatically. My doctor said, “Your bone scan is great.” I have a very, very good bone structure—and what is it?   [01:08:18] Ashley James: The density?   [01:08:19] Kathleen Gage: Density, yes, yes.   [01:08:21] Ashley James: I’ve heard that people on a whole food plant-based diet can reverse osteopenia and osteoporosis, especially because you’ve got the vitamins and the minerals—it’s so dense like the vitamin K. There’s a lot more that goes into building bones than just taking a calcium supplement. We need the vitamin K, we need the microbiome, and we need to do the physical exercise like running, walking, or any kind where there’s an impact on the resistance and impact going back to the bones—stimulating the bones. What you’re doing sounds like a formula for the fountain of youth, I love it.   [01:09:11] Kathleen Gage: I do resistance training too. Right now, I don’t have the availability of the gym. I was going to the gym probably four days a week, and I was running four or five days a week. Here’s the thing that I really noticed that blew me away, Ashley, is that when the gyms were open, I would go to the gym in the morning, and then I’d run in the afternoon because I had so much energy. The first time I did it if was like that was pretty cool. Then I did it again and I’m like this is bizarre. I have so much energy, that I had a great day in my office, and now I’m out doing a run after I worked out for an hour this morning, that’s bizarre.   [01:09:50] Ashley James: Have you always been able to fall asleep easily at night, wake up, and jump out of bed in the morning, or did that change when you went plant-based?   [01:10:01] Kathleen Gage: It’s interesting because I have bizarre sleep patterns. I fall asleep instantly, that’s something that I do—my head hits the pillow, I’m out. But I tend to get up early like I got up at 4:00 AM this morning, and that’s just the way my body is. I like to get up early because I have that quiet time in the morning where I meditate, I do yoga, I watch some inspirational video—usually, it’s from Eckhart Tolle or could be Wayne Dyer, or Gregg Braden, but I’d like to fill my mind and my body with healthy things. When I first went plant-based, I was sleeping a lot deeper, but with a lot of what’s going on right now, energetically, I just feel like I’ve been picking up a lot so I get up. I don’t stress over it because a lot of people say aren’t you worried about that? No, actually I’m not. I do something productive with that time, and by productive, it’s not necessarily working, but it’s doing something internal that gets me centered and balanced.   [01:11:06] Ashley James: Stressing about it and worrying about it is not going to change it.   [01:11:09] Kathleen Gage: No, not at all.   [01:11:10] Ashley James: I’m not saying to become an ostrich and bury your head in the sand. Again, distraction is destructive, and following your passions is constructive, but at the same time, focusing on all the things to worry about is not going to change them. Focusing on what you have control over is going to change your life. I can never affect politics by worrying about them. I can never affect the planet by worrying about it, but I can follow my passion and focus on what I can control right now. I can control what I eat, I can control the food that comes into my house and how I nourish my family, I can control how I move my body, I can go for a walk, I can go garden outside, I can do things in the house, I can read a book, so I can control that, I can do the podcasts, I can get on social media and connect with other people, I can help people from my home, and I can connect with them, but worrying about it is not going to help it. I teach, actually, this whole course on how to eliminate anxiety since 2005 because I’m a master practitioner trainer of neuro-linguistic programming. I teach people how to eliminate anxiety because there’s a mechanism in the brain that turns anxiety on and you could turn it off. What I say to people when I’m teaching this, I say, “We often think we’re preparing, but we’re not preparing, we’re lamenting.” I live in a zone where there’s a high probability that one day we’ll have a major earthquake—just outside of Seattle. For years, the media loves to fear monger. When’s the big earthquake? It’s going to be 9.0, we’re all going to die. The whole Pacific Northwest is going to fall into the ocean. They love saying these things and getting people all ramped up. If you have anxiety around it you’re not preparing, you’re lamenting. Some people go I have to prepare. Listen, preparing is going down the list of what should I have? I should have a family plan, okay, we’ve covered the family plan. I should have emergency supplies, know how to turn off the gas in the house, know the basics of first aid, just all the things you should know to best prepare for any emergency, and then you stop thinking about it, you turn it off and you move on with your life, but we don’t.  We lament, we stay up at night worrying about and imagining these worst-case scenarios, which is sending signals to the body that we’re under threat, and that’s turning on the stress response and creating anxiety. It’s actually causing physical harm to the body and weakening the immune system. When we focus on things we’re afraid of—because everyone’s sitting there going what if I’m going to get COVID, what if my grandma gets COVID, oh my gosh, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if?   [01:14:17] Kathleen Gage: What if, what if, what if, what if. Dr. Greger wrote a book years ago How To Not Die From A Pandemic. When he first wrote it they said you’re crazy. He has the healthy dozen, whatever he calls it. He said he had a dozen steps of how to prepare for a pandemic: rubber gloves, masks, sanitizer, and on and on. He said back then, nobody wanted to publish the book, read the book, and now, they’re coming to him and saying what do we do? It’s interesting because I was certified in NLP in 1994. Suzy Smith and Tim Holburn were my instructors in Salt Lake City. Today, when I was running, I was tapping into, in my mind, I was like, okay, what’s my strategy for running long? What’s my strategy for enjoying running? I was just going through this process of how do I most enjoy this? When we can find the strategy for feeling good, we can model that, and we can replicate it.  One of the quickest ways to ruin our day is to switch between CNN and Fox News. It’s like an equal opportunity. Watch both of them. The other day, Karen said to me, “What are the numbers today?” I said, “I haven’t got a clue. I’ve been busy watching Eckhart Tolle. I don’t want to know,” because I already know we have the situation, and I also know that there’s a really good chance I’m not going to be impacted by the disease directly because I eat healthily. If I get it, I’m not going to run into the complications, most likely.  Dr. Joel Fuhrman talks about that. He says, “I’m not worried about the epidemic. The pandemic is not going to hurt me because I eat so healthy,” but we still have to respect the boundaries of other people like the people that we could impact. I do respect the physical distancing, I do respect wearing the masks now when I go out in public, and I do respect the fact that I wash my hands. There are certain things that I do that it’s out of respect for other people. It’s not because I’m afraid of getting the disease. You’re right, we could sit there and just really mess with our head by saying what if this happens, what if that happens. Instead of saying what if the bad happens, well what if the good happens? What if I can come up with a new idea in my business that turns my business around like never before? Those are the what-ifs that we should be focusing on.   [01:16:49] Ashley James: I love it, I love it. It’s like you have a boat with leaks in it. Notice the areas where the leaks are, and the leaks are places in your life where fear, fear-mongering, and anxiety are leaking into your life. Where things that are disempowering, it might be relationships, it might be the news outlets, it might be your own obsessive thoughts. We can switch our thoughts. It does take practice, but catching it and becoming aware is the first step. The first step to recovering from alcoholism is admitting that you have a problem, admitting your alcoholic, and becoming aware of it.  The first step to cleaning up your life going from avoidance and distraction, which is destructive into focusing on building a life you love full of your passions is finding the areas. Maybe we should journal this. Write it down, where the leaks in my life that are leaking, that are leaking fear into my life, that are triggering fear and anxiety into my life, and what can I do to follow my passions instead of the distractions? I feel so deeply for those who are suffering at this time. I know that people are suffering, I know that people have lost jobs, they’re in economic despair.  I have one friend, about a month ago, went into quarantine. He said, “I have $35 to my name and I don’t know how I’m going to eat.” There are people in despair, and I feel for them. Absolutely. I want everyone to get out of this better regardless of where you are, I want everyone to come out of this empowered and an even better person. Regardless of where we are, we have the ability to, as you said, we can go internally. We have the ability to build ourselves up whether it’s making the different food choices, whether it’s taking in different information, turning some information off, and taking in good information. Follow Kathleen’s Facebook group, I love it. We’re of course going to have all the links to everything that Kathleen Gage does in the show notes of today’s podcast including her Facebook group. Following outlets like this podcast, you mentioned some great inspirational people that we can follow, follow that and fill yourself up with the richness of personal growth and development, and find the cracks in your life that bring in misery, that bring in anxiety, and fill those cracks so they don’t bring that in anymore.  I have been really enjoying my time in quarantine. I know that sounds weird because I also very dearly miss—I miss going out. I miss the freedom, and I’m really looking forward to this being over, but I have been thoroughly enjoying it. I’m an extrovert so keeping me at home is not fun, but I’ve been enjoying it because, in times of restriction, restriction increases creativity—if you let it. If you choose to have it, restriction increases creativity. I was just talking about this in a different interview that Dr. Seuss wrote his number one best-selling book—I think it’s the number one best-selling children’s book Green Eggs and Ham—because he was given the restriction. It was a challenge that he was given by his publisher to take the 50 most common sight words and only write an entire book using the 50 most common sight words, and he did it. He wrote a creative book. You don’t feel like he was restricted at all, but he sat there in that restriction and it made him more creative. We’re squeezed in a vice, and hopefully, we’ll come out as diamonds. We’re squeezed under the pressure of this current situation, and I hope that we can take these restrictions and find the ability to become even more creative, resourceful, and grow. This is a perfect, perfect opportunity to change our diets. We’re not eating out at restaurants. I guess you could go out and take out and bring it home, but you could also go to the grocery store, fill your cart with plants, come home, learn how to cook a whole food plant-based diet, and take the next few weeks to nourish your body. Regardless of what your family members choose to do, you could choose to be an example. Like my friend Naomi, she chose to go whole food plant-based, and then her family started following suit, but she didn’t force it upon them. She just said, “I’m eating this way, I’m doing the cooking in the house. If you’re going to eat meat you can choose to go do your own cooking or go elsewhere, but this is how I’m eating,” and they really enjoyed it. If they didn’t like it, they could go to the fridge, and get something else because she was eating for her health. Healthy boundaries, using food as our medicine and also choosing this time to do more personal growth and development. That we can build ourselves up and become even better people when we leave this quarantine, we could become even better people. I know listeners are going to be listening to this episode even years from now, and this will be like a historic event. At any point in your life, you can choose to turn it around and make the life you’ve already had, make your past mean something, make the suffering you’ve had mean something. Like Kathleen, you took those years where you suffered as an alcoholic, you turned it around, you made that suffering mean something, you learned from it, and you’ve now helped thousands of people to build a life they love because you teach them how to become better entrepreneurs, how to become heart-centered businessmen and women, and you’ve been doing that for many years. I definitely want to talk about your program for those who are interested in learning how to gain clients through marketing themselves through a podcast, because I think that’s very relevant. Obviously, we’re on a podcast so it’s very relevant.   [01:23:21] Kathleen Gage: Very relevant, yeah. I’d love to talk, if I may, about the quarantine and what a blessing that is because I think of people like Anne Frank that she and her family were confined to an attic and out of that came a masterpiece book. Just incredible because she had no choice. Man’s Search for Meaning, a prisoner in Auschwitz that out of that experience, he has impacted millions of people with a book. A lot of people are looking at this as such a restriction instead of saying how can I grow from this? I have to say, I agree with you that this whole quarantine and being restricted, if you call it a restriction, to me it’s a blessing. I’m finding things to do that—even little projects around the house. I encourage people to look at one little project, even cleaning a drawer out, doing it, and then having a sense of completion. Because if you just sit and you worry about the fact that you can’t do anything, you’re doing that to yourself, it’s not being done to you. I also really want to acknowledge the healthcare workers, the people on the front line. They’re the heroes. They’re the real heroes. A friend of mine posted the other day on Facebook and said, “The people I want to see on the red carpet are the nurses and doctors. I don’t want to see movie stars anymore. I want to see the real heroes,” and I agree with that because they’re there answering a call, so I want to acknowledge that. I want to acknowledge the people that right now, like your friend, who had $35 to his name. That’s a tough place to be in, and that’s where we get to ask for help, that’s where we get to extend the help and offer to help other people. There might be elderly people in your area that, for the people listening, maybe somebody who you don’t know needs a helping hand. Go visit your neighbors, when we can, and just see if there’s anything that they need. There are plenty of groups on social media where you can reach out to people in your immediate area and say does anybody need groceries? I have an elderly couple I’ve been communicating with and so far, they haven’t asked for any help but I’ve extended the help. I have no idea who they are, never met them other than on social media. The woman initially was telling me so much stuff that was too personal.  She was telling me where they live, that her husband just had a hip replacement, and on and on and on. I said, “Okay, I need to stop you. I want to give you some advice that I think is going to help you. Don’t give so much information away to a stranger. I said, “I’m a nice person. I’m not going to bring you harm, but you never know. There are scammers out there so I called to protect you in this.” I said, “We’ll keep in touch with each other. If you ever need me to run to the store for you I’m here for you, I’ll be happy to do it.” She goes, “Well, how will I compensate you? I said, “What do you mean?” She goes, “Well, how will I pay you for your time?” I said, “You won’t. That’s my gift to you.” I think there are plenty of things that we can do, one is if we need help to ask for help. If we have the ability to help somebody else, go buy groceries for somebody because they may need your help. This is a time for us to all step up to the plate, but as far as like in business, the big thing that I’m focusing on right now is either teaching people how to go out and find podcast opportunities where they can share their message. I teach them how do you find the right podcast, how do you reach out to a host, how do you prepare your marketing materials so that when they say I need your bio, I need your introduction, I need your headshot, you have all of that ready, and how to get over the fear of the microphone. Because what always amazes me, Ashley, are the people who have a great message, but they get in their own way. They’re so afraid of making a mistake that they never make an attempt to reach out to a host. I have one client, love her dearly, she is amazing. She had a stroke six years ago, wrote a book about it, it’s called Stroke Forward, and she hired me to teach her how to get on podcast shows. I remember the first show that she got on, she goes, “Well, what if I make mistakes?” I said, “You probably will and that’s okay because it just shows that you’re human.” She was so concerned about that first show. She did it, she calls me up, and she goes, “That was so much fun. I want to do it again.” In a matter of 2-3 months, she was on 25 shows. I gave her a strategy. I said, “Here’s what you do. Here’s how you reach out to the host. Here’s how you find the shows.” We went through the whole process of finding shows on iTunes, on Blog Talk Radio, and all sorts of opportunities. She started reaching out, and I said, “Don’t worry if you don’t hear back from people. Just reach out again because they may not have gotten your first message.” Now, she can’t get enough of it. One day I was talking to her and she goes, “I’m so disappointed. I don’t have anything booked for this week.” I said, “Well, get off your rear end and start reaching out,” and she did and she got two shows booked. She did exactly what I asked her to do. Where I’ve had other people that I give them the strategy and they go months and months and months without doing anything but research and fine-tuning. I had one person that kept fine-tuning their one sheet. It’s like okay enough already, your one-sheet is good. Go out and take a risk of being told no. What people find is that once they get over the fear of the microphone, all they have to do is be themselves. This conversation that we’ve had, it’s been a delightful conversation. I’m not trying to be perfect because I can’t be perfect, I can only be me, and I bring my experience to the call. That’s what I encourage people to do when they’re looking for shows. For those who want to start a show, let’s look at the time involved, what it takes to find the right platform, are you going to do video, are you going to do audio, do you have the time, are you disciplined enough, do you need to bring in a support person? What needs to happen in order for you to start a show, but if you’ve got an important message, you owe it to the market to put your message out there. There are so many amazing people that I work with. I work with a lot of people that are into health and fitness, into spiritual topics. I work with one woman who wrote a book called The Food Codes and it’s all about intuitive eating. I so love working with people who are clear on the fact that what they have to say is going to make a difference in people’s lives.   [01:29:56] Ashley James: I love it. I know, as I said, I’ve been following you, I’ve been learning from you. I was actually in one of your webinars I think about a year ago or just under a year ago because you had just gone plant-based and you were teaching about how to get on people’s podcasts. When people ask me advice, should they start a podcast? There’s so much work that goes into a podcast. Once you have momentum it’s a little easier, but there’s so much work that goes into it. Then to build up an audience, there’s a ton of work. If you have a message, I think it’s even better to just get on other people’s podcasts because you’re leveraging their audience. You’re bringing value, you’re leveraging their audience, so it’s a little bit of a harder road if you launch your own podcast. When I set out to do the Learn True Health podcast, I told myself that I wouldn’t quit until I had published 800—and I’m not saying I’m going to quit. I’m just saying that—   [01:31:09] Kathleen Gage: Don’t quit, no, no, no.   [01:31:10] Ashley James: I’m not quitting, I’m not quitting, but I said to myself, I’m not even going to entertain the thought of stopping until I have 800 episodes. Of course, if I had gotten into this and no one was listening, I had no listeners, I’d have to reevaluate. But for me, I know that podcasting is not a short-term thing, it’s like growing a garden. It’s long-term, you invest a ton of time into it, and you invest years into it to grow the podcast and to grow a community. It’s something that takes time, whereas you can get out there tomorrow. If you have a message, if you’re a health coach and you have a message, maybe you have written a book, or maybe you have a blog, or you have a membership, or you want to take on more clients, you can get out tomorrow and be on someone’s show and you’re leveraging their audience. You’re creating value because you’re teaching, you’re bringing information to their audience, and you potentially will get followers and clients, and you keep doing it over and over again rinse and repeat. You’re going to eventually build up your own audience and then launch a podcast. Kathleen teaches that.   [01:32:23] Kathleen Gage: Yes.   [01:32:25] Ashley James: We’re going to have, actually, your whole course on how to do that. We made the link easy learntruehealth.com/powerup, that’s learntruehealth.com/powerup, and of course, all the links will be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. You have this wonderful program for that, and then you also have this separate thing, although you said they’re merging together. I love that your passion for helping people is always heart-centered. That you’re ethically focused on helping entrepreneurs who are ethical, who are heart-focused. Sometimes when people hear the word entrepreneur or profits, they think of this cutthroat industry where we’re going to do whatever we can to get money out of people, and it’s very unethical and very shady. That’s the Hollywood version of it, but really, the type of people that you work with and that you coach are the wonderful beautiful people who genuinely want to help their followers and help their clients. That’s why I love that you’re moving towards merging how you teach also around the plant-based world. Tell us what that’s going to look like for the rest of 2020 and moving into years to come. What does this look like?   [01:33:57] Kathleen Gage: Yeah, that’s a hard one to answer especially in light of the fact that I am a professional speaker. A lot of how I’ve built my business is going out into a community and being on the platform. Well, that’s on hold right now so it’s looking at all the online resources available, but it’s going to be the coaching, the consulting. For people who maybe want to start a business, I can consult with them. The whole issue of the money side of it, the more money that you make the more good you can do in the world. We do a lot of animal rescue. Our business has supported many, many animals as a result. They show up on our property, as we were talking about before we started this conversation. I’m working on a book right now. It’s a lot of what I’ve been doing in my business for 26 years that’s just being married over into the plant-based world. But one of the things I wanted to point out for people that are looking for opportunities, and I’m in 100% agreement with you that it’s a good idea to start by getting on other people shows. Start with shows that our smaller shows, that they’re really in need of an expert like you, and make sure that it’s a match. For example, on my plant-based show, if somebody is not 100% whole food plant-based, they don’t come on my show. That’s what the platform is about. I want people from all walks of life that they subscribe to a plant-based lifestyle. Maybe they’re a business owner, maybe they’re a mom that’s raising kids that are plant-based, whatever it may be. I had somebody contact me the other day, and they tried to make it fit. I said, “Are you 100% plant-based?” They said, “No, but…” and I said, “Oh no. There are no buts. I don’t want you on my show. It’s not that I don’t think you’re a good person, I just don’t want you on my show.” Then I had a woman that contacted me and she said, “I listen to some of your episodes, I went to your website, this is what I do. I’m 100% plant-based, I’d love to talk about being on your show.” I said, “Okay,” everything I’ve read so far, I went to her website, I looked at it, wrote her back, I said, “You’re on.” That’s all it took was for her to be a good match. When you look for opportunities, make sure that it is a match for what your message is, and there are plenty of opportunities. I think there’s like a million podcast shows now, but what you want to do is look and make sure that they have current episodes, and there are things that I teach my clients how to find out if somebody’s current. Because if somebody hasn’t had an episode for two or three years, reaching out to them probably is not going to be the thing that’s going to get them to say oh gosh, now I need to have my show again. But if they, once a week, once a month but it’s consistent then, reach out to them, but don’t expect them to say yes right away. I had this happen recently where two people reached out to me, I never got their messages. I’m so grateful that they reached out again, both of them like on the same day. This was really bizarre. Individually, they said, “Oh, I reached out to you and I haven’t heard back. I’m just wondering, would I be a good fit for your show?” It’s like, “Thank goodness you reached out again.” Because a lot of times people will reach out, they don’t get an immediate yes, and they figure they don’t want to interview me. It may have nothing to do with that. Right now, people are in a lot of confusion, people’s businesses may be struggling and they’re trying to figure it out, so work with them, and bring value to the experience. It’s not about them serving you, it’s about you serving their market.   [01:37:33] Ashley James: I love it. Yeah. Definitely don’t bother contacting a podcast that doesn’t have a new episode that’s been at least two months. If I don’t publish three a week I feel guilty. I try to do three a week, but it’s between one and two a week most of the time. Sometimes I get three episodes a week. If someone hasn’t published one in months, they’re probably not a full-time podcaster and have moved on. Also, I almost never reply to the first email.  I get solicited to dozens and dozens of emails every day—solicited to be on the show. I almost never reply to the first one, it’s just I’m busy. I see that they’ve written to me every day, hey, I just want to make sure you got my email. I finally click through and then I’ll write them back and let them know whether I want them on the show or not. People are welcome to ask, it’s just that you’ve got to be persistent because there are some people that will write me five times and then I’ll go oh my gosh, thank you for writing the fifth time. I just saw your email pop-up. I missed the other ones because I get so many of them.   [01:38:50] Kathleen Gage: Yeah. We get busy. Another thing is if you’re an author, be willing to send a copy of your book to the host and just ask them, may I send you a copy of my book? How would you like it? Would you like the physical copy or the PDF? I had one client that wanted to charge the host for her book. I said, “If you do that, you will never get on a show. Why in the world would you charge somebody for your book?” It’s like no, no, no, no, no. You got to learn that this is all part of your visibility strategy, but really, it is about just bringing as much value, and it’s not going on in overtly selling stuff. I’ve had some people that want to go on, and well, I’m going to promote my book the whole time. That’s a mistake. You want to create value, and if you create enough value, people will want to get your book. I think you asked me a question and I completely sidestepped the question. I don’t even remember what it was, but I’ll blame it on age.   [01:39:45] Ashley James: No, no. I tend to throw three different questions at someone because I get so excited. I’m like what about this and what about this? I let the guest pick and choose what they wanted to answer. It’s a casual conversation, and we go back and forth. It’s all good. I want to just take your brain and empty it out for all of us to just learn from you, just empty your whole brain out to us. I did want to know more about what you’re doing in the plant-based world and what it’s going to look like—merging your passion around plant-based eating. Now, you take on clients as a health coach because you have your certification through eCornell. You’ve been a coach with many hats for many years like you said in the 90s, you became certified in NLP. You have coached people from an entrepreneurial standpoint, from personal growth and development standpoint, and now, from a health and wellness standpoint. It’s been separate from your business and now they’re coming together. What does it look like teaching people how to market themselves on podcasts or launch your own podcast, how to market yourself, and then also the plant-based world? You told us about your wonderful podcast, which is really cool so that’s a great resource, and then your Facebook group, but what does it look like moving forward to merge those two together?   [01:41:18] Kathleen Gage: It’s kind of interesting because what I’m noticing, I don’t call myself a health coach per se, I’m not going to sit there and create menus for somebody. That’s not my passion. My passion is helping them to live fully in whatever expression that happens to take form in. What I’m noticing is many of the clients that before I started focusing on plant-based eating, they were meat-eaters, and now they’re plant-based eaters. They said, “I’ve been following your advice,” and I’m like, “Oh, really?” We have an even deeper connection, but what’s just so exciting is that as I trained somebody how to find podcast opportunities, I use my plant-based podcast show as an example. I’m able to integrate it in saying okay, I’ve got this plant-based podcast show that I started probably on that 1-2 months ago. I started my PowerUp show in 2014. I did about 125 episodes in about 8 months, burn myself out, I pod-faded for about 5 years, started it up again, pod-faded again, and then about probably 6 months ago then I got serious about it again because I love that platform for business topics per se. With my plant-based show, I’m using that as an example of how to grow a podcast show, and that one’s growing very quickly. I’ve gotten some nice position on iTunes, I’m getting some amazing guests, I’m going to be interviewing Dr. Pamela Popper—who is very controversial in the plant-based movement and especially now with COVID-19, and I’m just getting some incredible people on there. I want to have you on, Ashley, for sure.   [01:43:03] Ashley James: I’d love that.   [01:43:05] Kathleen Gage: Absolutely. What I’m doing is I’m actually growing that show, and I’m growing that market. Just through organic means, I’m merging that over into the entrepreneurial world, and entrepreneurs are grabbing hold of it and saying maybe I should try this plant-based eating. So without forcing it, they’re becoming plant-based, but as far as being a coach for people going plant-based, that’s not my passion. My passion is entrepreneurs who have a big message that wants to take it out into the world but I want them to be aligned with their message. If they say that they love animals, let’s see how true that is.   [01:43:49] Ashley James: Awesome, very cool. When we follow our ethics, when we follow our hearts, and when we have our business be an alignment with our values, it allows us to become niche—niche down. You can attract the right clientele, that you’ll have a more meaningful and rich relationship with your clientele because you niche down and you’re serving them in a way that aligns with their values as well. If someone is Christian or Catholic and they’re really, really passionate about that, then incorporate that into your business and serve your community. If you’re in the LGTBQ community, serve that community. Find your community. For me, the whole food plant-based, I’m very passionate about it. It’s okay to niche down, serve that community, and also educate people. We have to bring tolerance and love because there’s a lot of misunderstanding. There are people who have been raised to believe that we need to kill animals, eat them, and survive, and that that’s the best thing for humans. I’ve met some people who were vegetarian, they became sick, and they started eating meat, and then they became better, so then they associate meat with health. I don’t want to bring any shame or any guilt, there are some people who are just not ready and they get turned off by this message. I’ve had people write me emails that say that they don’t want to listen to the shows that have plant-based messages, and I’ve equally been sent emails by listeners who say that they won’t listen to shows that talk about meat. I can’t win, I can’t please everyone, but what I can do is ask that we have an open mind. My biggest homework is to eat more plants. Maybe you’re not ready to try going 100% meatless and going 100% whole food plant-based—eat more plants. Eat more plants, eat more plants, eat more plants. Crowd out your plate—I learned this from the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. The founder of it, he talks about how as a health coach, we’re not telling people don’t eat this, don’t eat this, don’t eat this, don’t eat this, and all of a sudden well what can I eat? We tell them what to eat a lot of. Eat a variety of colors of vegetables, crowd out your plate. If you fill up on, and I learned this for Chef AJ, eat a pound of vegetables before you have the rest of the meal. That’s about two and a half cups of broccoli, which is not that much—maybe for people who never eat vegetables. Eat a pound of vegetables at breakfast. The first thing she eats in the morning, she steams some vegetables, which is very quick. It’s very quick to steam vegetables, and she eats a pound of it. You could drizzle some delicious balsamic over it, fig balsamic, or maple balsamic. There are all kinds of delicious balsamic that taste like candy. You feel like you’re eating candy. You feel like you’re cheating, but you eat a pound of vegetables and then eat the rest of your meal. You can also do it in a form of a salad or raw if you wanted to, but eating a pound of vegetables and then eat your potato, or your brown rice, or your beans. If you’re choosing to eat meat, eat the meat last. Fill up on your plants first, and you’ll notice that maybe you’re not going to eat a 12-ounce steak, maybe you’re only going to eat a 4-ounce steak. I’m just using that as an example that you’ll feel full. Then try some meals with no meat like meat meatless Mondays, or no meat till 6:00 PM is another one. I have a woman who joined—when we launched the Learn True Health Home Kitchen, she said to me right off the bat, “I will never,” and I’ve known her. She’s been a Facebook friend. We’ve met through a different nutrition community, and she became a listener of the show since episode one. We talk very candidly to each other. She was, “I’ll never go meatless. I live in the heart of America where we’re meeting potatoes, that’s all we eat. I can’t ever see my family going meatless, but I’m going to join your membership because I want to learn how to eat more plants.” I said, “Great, that’s fantastic. You don’t have to go meatless.” But it’s like the gateway to going whole food plant-based—could be just eating more vegetables and then noticing you actually like them. In the first module of my course, I talk about to try the meatless Monday. Try one meal without meat because before doing this, I had never in my life eaten a meal without meat. It was amazing. It took a huge mindset shift to choose to eat a meal without meat because, in my mind, I didn’t think you’ve had a meal until there was meat. Having a meal without meat was the most foreign thing to my body and the most foreign thing to my thinking. Just try one meal that’s plants only, and it might be the most foreign thing to you but just try it, or try meatless Mondays where your whole family tries it as a fun experiment, or try no meat until 6:00 PM so your breakfast and lunch is a bunch of plants. What she did was she filled up her fridge with vegetables, she started watching all the videos that we teach how to cook these different foods, and she started doing it with her family. She decided to do the no meat until 6:00 PM. She’s like listen, “We’re not going meatless, but we’re just going to eat more plants.” I said, “Great.” Five days into it, she wrote a testimonial. It’s in our Facebook group, but she wrote it, and I read it in one of our episodes. She said, “I’m five days in and my chronic headaches are gone. I took Advil almost every day. My chronic headaches are gone.” This is a woman who takes supplements and has eaten healthy for years because she reversed a major, major health condition with food, eating less junk food, and taking supplements. She goes, “My chronic headaches are gone. I have more energy. I have significantly reduced my coffee intake, and I still have more energy.” She has three young kids in diapers. She goes, “I am actually falling asleep at night,” because she’s been a night owl. She’s on the East Coast and at midnight she’d be messaging me so I noticed she never gets sleep. She goes, “I’m actually feeling sleepy at night. I have energy during the day. My kids are eating vegetables they’ve never eaten before and liked it.” This was five days in to just choosing to do this one experiment where she was no meat for breakfast and lunch and eating more plants.   [01:51:04] Kathleen Gage: You just reminded me of one of the other things that changed. I used to get really severe headaches, and it was on the side of my head. I was in the dentist’s chair about a year into eating plant-based, and I had to open my mouth because he was doing bridgework or whatever he was doing. For two hours my mouth was open and I got this headache and all of a sudden it hit me. I have not had a headache in over a year. It was something that I had grown accustomed to was having the headaches, and then when I switched to plant-based, the headaches disappeared, but I never connected the dots until I was sitting in the dentist’s chair. That’s another benefit. I love what you say about just do what’s appropriate for you because again, people will decide based on the quality of life they want. I know that sometimes with me, people ask about being plant-based, and when I share what I do and what I don’t do, they’re like I could never do that. I said, “Well, I’m not asking you to. You’d ask me what I do, I’m just going to share, and you’ll do what you want to do. If you like your misery, go ahead and keep it, but there you go.” They say that in recovery. They say just try this for 30 days and if you want to go back to the way you were, we’ll give you your misery back, no problem at all.   [01:52:30] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, I love it. I love it.   [01:52:33] Kathleen Gage: For me, I really am passionate about this, and I’m so grateful that I’ve had the opportunity to share my insights and what it’s done for me because honestly, the quality of life that I get to experience today—I don’t care how long I live, I just care about the quality of life I have. Because when my mom passed away, for two years, she had a really, really tough time after my dad died. She was a very unhealthy woman. She had a lot of chronic illnesses. I saw them literally take her away a piece at a time, her intestines, and she would go in for a surgery, they took another foot, and then another foot. That was her life. I didn’t want to end my life that way. I want to have a quality that really gives me the passion to live fully each and every day, whatever that may mean to me. If it’s working in my garden, great. If it’s cooking a meal, if it’s spending time with family, whatever it may mean, I just want to give it 100%.   [01:53:34] Ashley James: This way of eating and also this lifestyle you’ve set up—the getting up early and filling your body with inspirational food—with spiritual, with mental, and with emotional food. Then going for a run and also filling your body with plants, unprocessed foods, and avoid of all these chemicals out there. 80,000 chemicals have entered our bodies in the last 50 years. New chemicals that were man-made—man-made chemicals through air, through water, and through our food supply. There are chemicals that are legally allowed to be sprayed on our food, and in our food supply, they don’t have to disclose it that are illegal in other countries. The entire European Union, there are whole batches of chemicals that are put in our food. This is another one that really hit me, when you buy ice cream, which of course I don’t buy ice cream, but when you buy ice cream—I make my scream at home. I make homemade ice cream, I know all the ingredients that go into it, it’s absolutely delicious and nutritious, but the ice cream you buy in the store, when you read the ingredients, it doesn’t say anything about food-grade antifreeze because it’s industry standard. In the food industry, when you buy processed food, there are all kinds of chemicals that are in that food that they don’t need to disclose. If you buy a box of crackers, there are chemicals in your food they do not need to disclose is an ingredient because it’s industry standard, it’s used as an emulsifier, or used as some kind of agent, or it’s one of the pesticides, it doesn’t need to be in the ingredients. Just because something looks okay, these Cheerios looks okay. Sure, they also are full of glyphosate, which is a roundup. It’s a key later that dumps heavy metals into your kidneys and into your brain. I’ve had a Dr. Stephanie Seneff on the show twice. She’s an MIT top research scientist. Her background is not in medicine, her background is research and understanding the numbers. She’s gotten together with a team of MIT and other top Ph.D. research scientists who have brought together all the information around glyphosate. They could show the damage it does to the body. Of course, this is Monsanto and Bayer now fights this. They try to suppress the information, but these scientists, they’re not making money doing this. She came on my show, she’s not making a dime doing it. She’s a whistleblower. She’s trying to get the information out there. Our food supply is tainted. We can’t trust when we buy packaged food that it’s clean. We need to buy organic as much as possible—organic locally grown. If it’s not certified organic, get a local farmer, get a relationship with them, and learn that they do organic farming but they haven’t paid the hundreds and thousands of dollars to become organically certified, or they’re transitioning over because they think it’s a five year period to transition over into becoming an organic farm. We want to support those guys, those farmers as much as possible buying foods that are local, foods that are organic, or foods that are at least are void of the pesticides, and have your own garden if you can run, or get together with other people who have gardens. You grow broccoli, they grow potatoes, and you guys share. There are all kinds of things we can do, and we have to get creative and resourceful, but we can cut out these 80,000 chemicals that are in our environment. We can significantly reduce them, which is going to extend the quality of your life, and it’s also going to extend your life itself. I tell this story, and I’ll be very brief. I was very sick. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome, type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections for which I needed monthly antibiotics. I was told I was infertile and I’d never have kids. I was in my 20s, I was a prisoner of my own body—totally sick. The first health change I made was I went organic. I shopped the perimeter of the store so we ate less processed food, we didn’t go 100% free of processed food, but we cut out some processed food, but we ate 100% organic. After going 100% organic, within one month, my chronic infection stopped. I stopped needing to take antibiotics, and I turned around and I went that was the impact on my immune system that all of the chemicals that are on all of our food. Just going organic and eating less processed food made my chronic infection stopped, made my immune system not so taxed, and that was the beginning of my journey of getting my health back, of reversing these all these diseases. Now I don’t have those diseases. Of course, we naturally conceived our child. We don’t have any of those diseases, but that’s the impact of just choosing less processed food and going organic.   [01:58:57] Kathleen Gage: Absolutely, and it’s incredible. It is a journey because I remember when I was about 20 or 21 years old, I had endometriosis, and that’s before they even had a name for it. That’s 40 some odd years ago. They just did test after test after test, and one doctor wanted to do experimental surgery and open me up like completely open me up. My ex-husband was like—I think that’s the only really good thing he did—he said, “Absolutely not. We’ll find another doctor.” When we found a doctor that had just started learning about laparoscopy I think it’s called where they went in through the navel and they put a microscope inside of me, he said, “You’re filled with cysts.” My mother-in-law, she said, “Do you think it’s from the cheese that you’re eating?” Because he was Hispanic and she was from Mexico, she did a lot of cooking with cheese. I said, “No. How can it be cheese?” That was before the cheese was even processed the way it is today. I thought of this probably a month ago about her comment, do you think it could have been the cheese? It could have been the cheese. Back then it was like absolutely not. It’s a journey that we’re on, and a lot of times people say I don’t want to give up meat because I love the taste of meat. I have to tell you, I love the taste of meat. We would have big meat meals, but when you look at the journey of where you started and where you go to when you start making these changes, it’s incredible, and it is a journey. It’s not something that just suddenly everything changes. For some of us, we are very black and white, but it’s a journey of discovery. As I said, I did the bone broth diet, I’ve done the Atkins diet, I’ve done the Mediterranean diet, and I’ve done the starvation diet. When liquid protein was a big deal, and this was in my 20s, I literally, literally went three months without eating. I did liquid protein for three months, ended up in the hospital almost dead. They said the potassium was hardly even registering in my body. It was just a really, really critical situation. That’s how dramatic I was in the way that I would try to lose the weight instead of looking at a healthy lifestyle. That’s what I love about the choices that I make today, being able to bring awareness and shine a light on a healthier way of living. This whole thing with the factory farms, I see it as a blessing because if we could get those farmers to go more into organic produce, oh my gosh, what a blessing that would be. There are a lot of blessings that are going on right now, and we just need to look at it that way.   [02:01:37] Ashley James: I love it. You had mentioned earlier you don’t consider yourself a health coach because you don’t make food plans for people.   [02:01:48] Kathleen Gage: It scares me, it scares me.   [02:01:50] Ashley James: I understand that.   [02:01:51] Kathleen Gage: I’m a sissy when it comes to that.   [02:01:53] Ashley James: It’s funny, it’s funny. I’m a health coach, and I have to tell you that majority of health coaching is exactly what you do. Very little health coaching is making a food menu because most people won’t follow a food menu. Most people, what they need is they need you to point them in the right direction. You could give them a list of some ideas, here are some recipes that are really great, or what kind of foods do you like? Would you like Mexican? Here are some plant-based versions. Most people don’t want menus or food plans because it’s too regimented, and they won’t follow it long term. You want to teach them to fish instead of giving them the fish. As a health coach, most health coaching is enlightening, is empowering, lifting them up, helping them to uncover their passion, helping them to find the resources so that they can make the best choices for themselves, and also then having an accountability partner. I think you’re a health coach based on everything that you do.   [02:02:58] Kathleen Gage: I’ll take it, okay. I think because I didn’t want to be boxed in on that’s all I do because there’s so much—I like to live by example. I like to show through example what’s possible. As I said, I love to read and so when I read a good book I’m always posting about it. I like to share these resources. You know, I’ll take it. If that’s what being a health coach is, I’ll take it.   [02:03:27] Ashley James: Awesome. I totally get it. We were of the era where no one’s fitting into a box, there’s no box anymore.   [02:03:35] Kathleen Gage: Absolutely. Well, now I got to go get new business cards. No, I’m just kidding.   [02:03:42] Ashley James: What is it called? Is it the Renaissance man? What is it when someone is a master of many hats?   [02:03:49] Kathleen Gage: Yeah, Renaissance and would it be bohemian too?   [02:03:53] Ashley James: Maybe, well we are. We’re quite bohemian, aren’t we?   [02:03:56] Kathleen Gage: Yes, absolutely.   [02:03:57] Ashley James: It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show, exploring your world, and how what you do in the entrepreneurial space is also helping people to get their health back. You’re also helping people who work in the health space, like health coaches and doctors who have a message, and they want to get their message out there. I know you’ve had several clients who teach raw vegan, which is such a niche, such a niche market. You have clients in this space and you help them to get their voice out there so they can get their books sold to more people, so they can get more clients. I know that about 20% of my listeners are in the holistic health space, many of my listeners are health coaches, Naturopaths, chiropractors, acupuncturists, even nurse practitioners who are also like health coaches in a sense. There are many different roles, many different professions that my listeners are in, and many of them are in the entrepreneurial space who would love to grow their business. You teach us how to do that. Listeners can go to learntruehealth.com/powerup, and of course, the links to everything that Kathleen Gage does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show. I can’t wait to be on your show.   [02:05:19] Kathleen Gage: Let’s get that taken care of. This has been delightful. I’ve had such a great time. You’re doing amazing things. I know you and Duffy with your son are just making a difference in the world, so I really appreciate all you’re doing.   [02:05:35] Ashley James: Absolutely. Thank you. I want to make sure everyone knows, what’s the name of your podcast?   [02:05:40] Kathleen Gage: It is Plant Based Eating for Health.   [02:05:43] Ashley James: Awesome. They could also search Kathleen Gage and probably find you as well in iTunes or whatever.   [02:05:49] Kathleen Gage: Yeah, a boatload of stuff.   [02:05:51] Ashley James: A buttload of stuff will come up.   [02:05:55] Kathleen Gage: A buttload or a boatload.   [02:05:59] Ashley James: Whichever you prefer, there’s going to be a lot of it. Awesome. Kathleen, do you have any homework you’d like to give us to wrap up today’s interview?   [02:06:09] Kathleen Gage: Yes, I do. What I would like people to do is sit down and describe your ideal life. What would your health be like, what would your family life be like, and what would your community be like, and start with your health? Based on that, what choices can you make that will get you closer to that decision? I did a visioning class about two years ago. I mapped out the kind of life I wanted to have, and it included so much about plant-based eating, and I didn’t even realize it at the time, but I did a vision board. When I looked at that a few months later I was like oh my gosh, everything I put on this board has become a reality, including a new rescue dog. We lost one of our dogs, and I put an image of the kind of dog I wanted. I had no clue that I even put it on there until I looked later. We have Roxy now who is just spitting image of what was on that vision board. I would say, sit down and really convene with yourself, come to a place of honoring who you are meant to be, and then take the action from there.   [02:07:17] Ashley James: I love it, such great advice. Awesome. Thank you so much, Kathleen Gage, for coming on the show. I can’t wait to have you back on the show at a later date. Keep coming back and sharing with us, and also, I can’t wait to be on your show. It’s going to be a lot of fun.   [02:07:31] Kathleen Gage: Absolutely. Thank you, Ashley.   [02:07:33] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview. Please go to these two links today, one is learntruehealth.com/powerup for the free goodies that Kathleen Gage is giving you, and go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen to get the free tour, and check out the membership site that I created for you with all these wonderful recipes and healing information so you can walk into the kitchen and use your kitchen to support your body’s ability to heal itself. Delicious recipes that support you and your family in optimal health. Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. I hope to see you there.   Get Connected With Kathleen Gage! Plant-based Eating For Health Facebook Group Plant-basedefh – Twitter Plant-based Eating For Health – Instagram Kathleen Gage – Twitter Kathleen Gage – Linkedin Kathleen Gage – Instagram   Recommended Reading Eat To Live by Dr. Joel Fuhrman

Get all the bonuses from Dr. Anna:  learntruehealth.com/ketogreen Keto Macro Calculator + 1-day personalized meal plan: https://dranna.grsm.io/KG16-KetoCalc-ashleyjames1757?utm_campaign=KGBookLaunch Making Keto Work for Women Over 40 E-Book: https://dranna.grsm.io/KG16-over40-ashleyjames1757?utm_campaign=KGBookLaunch   Keto-Green 16 https://www.learntruehealth.com/keto-green-16   Highlights: What Keto-Green is What makes urine pH acidic What keto alkaline is The cortisol-oxytocin disconnect Importance of fasting   As an obstetrician and gynecologist trained with the best in the country, Dr. Anna Cabeca was baffled when she experienced premature menopause. That’s what led Dr. Anna to find the root cause and solutions for her premature menopause. Keto-Green 16 is not just any diet, it is also a health community that aims to boost oxytocin. Men too can do the Keto-Green 16 diet as the Keto-Green 16 book has a chapter on men’s health. Dr. Anna shares with us today the importance of testing urine pH and fasting. She also gives us some of the 16 foods from her book.   Intro: Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health podcast. I’m very excited for you to learn from Dr. Anna Cabeca today. She is giving us amazing bonuses. She talks about it in the interview, and I want to make sure you have this link. Go to learntruehealth.com/ketogreen. That’s learntruehealth.com/ketogreen. Of course, that link is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast as well. Go to that link, and she gives you all kinds of awesome bonuses, digital downloads, really cool guides, recipes. Everything she talks about, she gives you all these great free bonuses she gives you, and then it also allows you to pre-order her book, which is launching right now.  I think her program is fantastic because she focuses on nutrifiying the body, alkalizing the body with mineral-rich antioxidant-rich foods. I absolutely love her way of measuring the body stress levels and measuring the body’s alkalinity levels to make sure that you are supporting your body in being out of a disease creating state, and in a healing and restorative state all while achieving healthy hormone levels, metabolism levels, and your weight loss goals as well. She really nails it. I think nutrition is key, using food as medicine is key, and she teaches you how to do that, but also how to measure your success along the way to make sure you’re on the right track, which is so great. I know you’re going to love today’s interview. Please go to learntruehealth.com/ketogreen to get all the information, all the bonuses, and everything that she talks about in today’s interview. Share this with all of your female friends, although men will learn a thing or two from today’s interview. So men, stick around, but please, share this episode with all of your female friends. It’s never too early or too late to support your body’s ability to heal itself and create healthy hormone levels. Enjoy today’s interview.   [00:02:21] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 427. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show, Dr. Anna Cabeca. Dr. Anna was here on the show in episode 326, so it’s almost been 100 episodes since you were on the show, and so much has happened. Welcome back.   [00:02:52] Dr. Anna Cabeca: It’s so good to be back with you, Ashley. We’ve been big fans. I had told you my daughter, Amira, who we just brought back from the Netherlands where she was studying, turned me on to your podcast in the first place.   [00:03:05] Ashley James: It’s so cool. I love it. I love how this works. I love how podcasting works because it connects  us in such a unique way and allows us to really be together as a community. Your message, you help women to balance their hormones, and this is such a relevant topic because so many women now in their 30s and 40s are going through premenopause. Back in the day, it used to be the 50s or 60s, and we’re just seeing this huge, huge spike in women really being out of balance with their hormones so much so that their body just says, “Alright, we’re depleted. I guess we’re just going to go into that next stage of our life.” Way sooner than it’s supposed to, and that affects our vitality, that affects our bone density, that affects our longevity, it affects the quality of our life on so many levels. You help women to regain that balance and to regain their health in every system of their body. I’m such a fan of the work that you do because you are all about using food as medicine to balance the body. Today you’re coming back to share about your latest book. It’s been about a year since you’ve been on the show, and since then, you’ve written a new book. I’m so excited. Tell us about your new book that’s coming out.   [00:04:48] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yeah. Thank you. My first book was The Hormone Fix, and it’s all about really working on our major hormones because it takes more than hormones to fix our hormones. I launched that out on February 26 and introduced it to your audience in that last podcast. Now, Keto-Green 16, which is my next book is releasing May 5th, and it really is like a kick-butt plan to get results very quickly in 16 days, and uplevel so that we really push our system to uplevel itself. So to become even more efficient, more energized, slimmed-down those stubborn pounds, and get out of a metabolic plateau or metabolic stall that we often hit when we have hormone imbalance issues.   [00:05:39] Ashley James: Take us back to after you launched, a year ago after you launched your book. I mean, that’s such a big feat to have launched a book, busy promoting it, and you’re also a busy doctor, and then turn around and write another book. Was there a specific aha moment when you said, “Okay, this is the next book I’m writing.” Did you have a, “Oh, this is exactly what I need to do now,” moment?   [00:06:05] Dr. Anna Cabeca: It evolved as I was in the process after I had written The Hormone Fix and was working with more clients online going through the programs. I wanted to take it to the next level. There is so much in The Hormone Fix beyond what we eat. There is how we manage cortisol, how we manage oxytocin hormone disruptors. For Keto-Green 16, I wanted to simplify it to say, “Okay, here’s the basics.” You don’t need necessarily all the reasons and science why I’m recommending this, although I’ve got some in there, of course, can’t help it. But here’s the plan that really works and we’re going to uplevel it, push it to a higher level that is doable, and quicker, and simpler. I have beautiful recipes in The Hormone Fix, and lots of great information, and a great plan, but in Keto-Green 16, I trimmed it down to 16 key ingredients to make shopping easier, 16 key ingredient types. I pushed our fasting window. I was recommending 13 to 15, starting out 13 to 16, so I really push everyone to 16-hour intermittent fasting. Also, there are some other fun things around the number 16—16-minute exercise routine, 16 days. There is some good stuff here. I just wanted to simplify it, make it easier for people, but plus also bring the men into the picture. Make it so men can adapt it for them, and there’s a whole chapter on men’s health in their men’s health and men’s sexual health, and really get everyone doing it together. My vision with Keto-Green 16, because the community is a big boost to oxytocin, a healthy community, the more we can be a healthy community, boost our oxytocin. My goal also with Keto-Green 16, you don’t have to do it alone. Do it with your work teams. Do it with your virtual communities now as we’re creating virtual communities. Do it as part of a corporate health program, 16 days. First 16 days of every month. I mean, let’s do this together. Let’s bring food in together. Let’s talk about this together.   [00:08:23] Ashley James: Very interesting that you did a whole chapter on men. Statistically, men don’t go to a doctor for regular check-ups as much as women do. That statistically, men wait until it’s really bad or their wives drag them in. Now, we do have male listeners, and they’re the proactive ones. They’re the black sheep. But statistically, the majority of men out there don’t really hone in on their health and practice preventive medicine.  You mentioned sexual health, and I think that ED, erectile dysfunction, is when men go, “Wait a sec, there’s something wrong.” Because erectile dysfunction can be caused by numerous things. It’s sort of like the canary in the coal mine, and it’s saying, “Hey, you might be headed for heart disease, diabetes. If you don’t handle it now, you’re going to be in a grave soon.” ED is something that shows that they have significant health issues that they might have been ignoring. When men can’t perform, that’s when they take action. So you have a chapter on how they can reverse ED and gain control of their health, is that correct?   [00:09:41] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Absolutely, absolutely. I’ve worked with men. I always tell the men that come to see me, the men that are listening in general that are proactive of their health, but I tell the men that come to see me, “You know, you really are a strong male when you come to see a gynecologist for answers.” It’s true because very often, I’m working with their wives or their significant other, and they’re like, “You know what, she’s doing great, and I’m falling behind.” or “I see what you’ve done for such and such and such and such, so I want help too.” Men who came into my practice on their own, and it is about that. It is about getting to the underlying, underlying reason why we’re having problems to begin with. It’s not symptom treatment when you come to my medical office. It’s not symptom treatment. It’s getting to the underlying reason you’re having the symptoms and fixing that, and that’s what’s taken me on this journey, Ashley. I mean, this is really what’s taking me on this journey is that I kept looking for the underlying, underlying reason to what my problems were: my weight gain, my obesity, my depression, my trauma, my infertility, my premature menopause. I mean, just name it. I could probably keep going. I have a long list but I have none of that anymore. Yes, I am infertile because now at age 53, I am finally really menopausal and delivered my last baby at 41. A lot shifted. A lot’s really shifted as we get to the underlying reason why we’re having these problems to begin with. For me, there was no good solution available. My doctor’s bag was empty. I had to create solutions that worked.   [00:11:20] Ashley James: We did go over your bio in the last interview, but for those who haven’t heard it, you were a doctor and you had health issues, and you were looking around going, “Wait a second. I wasn’t taught how to heal my body. What’s going on? Can you give us a little bit of an insight into the aha moments you had as you began to heal yourself using food, and that’s not something that is taught to doctors.   [00:11:52] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Right, yeah. It’s definitely food has been a part of it. Absolutely. I would say it’s not just about what we eat, and that’s why diets–93% of diets fail, right? Because it’s not just about what we eat, when we eat, where we eat, who we’re eating with, and what we eat ate. All of the things have to do with how we’re going to do, and so true. For me, I was 39 years old. I was running my medical practice, a medical spa. I was a National Health Service Corps scholar, and I practiced here in southeast Georgia—rural area—for payback in a community–a shrimping village–that I had.  As a result of trauma, really, I was plunged into early menopause, and I failed the highest doses of infertility treatments, the highest doses of recommended injectable. I pushed the limit. I trained at Emory University with the best reproductive endocrinologist in the country, in my opinion, and I had no ovarian response. I was 39 years old as an OBGYN, told I would never be able to have another baby again. We were devastated. Then to be diagnosed with early menopause.  I had severe depression. When I got out of bed in the morning, it hurt to put my feet on the floor. I ached. I can remember that. I just ached everywhere. My hair was falling out, just name it. I was basically given the option of antidepressants because of course, I was depressed. That was what was recommended. As well as I was offered egg donation as an option for my infertility. That wasn’t the answer that my husband and I wanted to go with at the time, and it really took me on a journey around the world. I left my medical practice for a year, I took a sabbatical. An angel, I call her an angel. Dr. Deborah Shepherd came as an answer to a prayer and took over my medical practice for that year enabling me to do this. I had two daughters, one 6 and one 9 or 7 and 10. They’re just turning 7 and 10 at that time. We traveled around the world. I homeschooled them for a year.   [00:14:18] Ashley James: I love it.   [00:14:19] Dr. Anna Cabeca: That was entertaining. I am not the homeschool mom. Right now, kids are home, and I am glad Ava Marie. Homeschooling is not for me. But it took me on a journey around the world to discover all different types of medicine: traditional, Eastern, Western, I spoke with some of the best scientists in the world, and I met some of the most amazing indigenous healers, and none of it was planned. Anyway, none of it was my plan. I’ll say it was God’s plan, but as a result, I reversed my infertility, reversed my early menopause, became pregnant, and delivered a healthy baby girl at age 41. That was the beauty of it.  As a result of trauma, as a result of PTSD, the underlying consequences of PTSD, especially as we enter this perimenopausal stage, I call it a period of neuroendocrine vulnerability. I’ve really dug into this a lot since our last conversation and since writing The Hormone Fix. I’ve really dug into this neuroendocrine vulnerability because more is coming up about it now as we’re starting to image the female brain. There’s some great neuropsychiatrist and brain researchers looking at the female brain, really, for the first time in history, honestly, in the way that it’s needed to be done. We’re finding out some interesting things.  As a result of my PTSD and this trauma, a consequence to that was what I call in my book the cortisol-oxytocin disconnect. In other words, a hormonal disconnect, a burnout. You no longer feel love, you no longer feel connected, you feel isolated and dissociated. It doesn’t matter how many people around you love you. You don’t feel it. As a result, my relationship went through a divorce, and then he had a traumatic brain injury. So then, I was both a single mom and dad to my kids. Then at age 48, I went through the second period of early menopause with the brain fog and I had teenagers. One in elementary school, one in middle school, and one in high school. I had irritability, brain fog. I mean, some of that we can deal with, but the worst part was gaining weight.  I gained 20 pounds. My patients would say, “Without doing anything different?” And when they would tell me that, “I mean, really.” I’d be like, “Really. Really you’re not doing anything different.” Sure, you’re doing something different. No, but it happened to me. Really, I wasn’t doing anything different. I gained 20 pounds overnight, and it’s very fascinating how that happened. That’s what took me into my journey of discovering the keto alkaline, which I now called it my Keto-Green way. Getting my body into ketosis, but adding the alkalinizers on to increase hormone balance, and also using my urine pH as a measure of how well I’m doing because stress creates an acidic urine pH. Too much of an acidic or inflammatory diet creates an acidic urinary pH.  Using that to guide me and to develop this program to really fine-tune the dietary component plus the lifestyle component that improves our physiology. Doing that combination, getting into ketosis on a regular basis through intermittent fasting and low glycemic diet plus healthy fats, as well as, those alkaline components really make a difference. It’s been a fascinating journey, honestly. It really has been fascinating as kind of hacking the midlife physiology.   [00:18:17] Ashley James: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Especially like you said, this is really being studied for the first time. When we look at the history of medicine, women’s health and women’s brain health has not been explored, especially the way that they’re exploring it now. So this is very, very exciting. Urine pH test strips. There’s a brand I love. I can’t remember the name, but I’ll link it in the show notes. Do you sell them, or do you have a brand that you love? The ones that I get, you can use to test your saliva and your urine.   [00:18:54] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Okay. I’ve got one better for you because urine pH really makes a difference. I actually created urine pH test strips with ketone pads on them. They’re called the Keto-pH Test Strips. I’ll give you a link to those. We want to check the urine. Salivary is good and it’s interesting to check too. It will also relate to what you eat, but urine is kind of, “Okay, what’s the end product? At the end of this moment, what’s the result here?” You can fine-tune your day based on your urine pH. Say, for example, you check your urine pH in the morning. Now, I want that to be alkaline, but what’s very interesting, the more you push your body into ketosis after periods of fasting, for instance, you’re going to be acidic, so you really have to balance up the alkalinizers and the practices that increase the alkalinity. I’ll share a story with you. Urine pH testing and urine testing for ketones, Let me tell you, urine is another vital sign. Urine pH testing is absolutely another vital sign. As we are exposed to a lot of stressful thoughts and situations right now, I think it’s more important than ever to be checking urine pH—more important than ever to be checking urine pH because that really helps us fine-tune what we’re doing and even our thoughts. I was just on a consult call with a client of mine. She lives up in Rhode Island, and she said over the last week, she was doing everything. She was really trying to get alkaline, and the news every night, and she was feeling stressed, and she goes, “Well then, we had a virtual Skype birthday party with my two-year-old grandbaby. With my next urination, I couldn’t wait to check, and lo and behold I was so alkaline. I was so alkaline.” She knows. Oxytocin shifts your pH, shifts your physiology. We have focused so much on the wrong things. We focused just on the wrong things. We would ask, “Why would this healthy eater, this vegetarian, or this vegan, or this really healthy athlete, and very conscientious about nutrition, why would she get cancer? Why would she get inflammation? Why would she be struggling with this or autoimmune disease?” Really, it’s more than about what we eat. Figuring out what our physiology is, I love it. It’s like getting your Nancy Drew on and you’re just discovering. Okay. “Well, when I interact with so-and-so I’m acidic right away.” I mean I can tell you, I could have told you that, but having my urine pH prove it to me, that’s pretty fun.   [00:21:40] Ashley James: That is so funny. I was just watching a TV show where a police officer was wearing a Fitbit-like thing that monitored his stress levels. Every time a sergeant walked up to him it’d start beeping. It’s funny to think that we could measure our stress levels in such an easy way, such an easy way every time you urinate. I was going to ask when’s the best time you test, but through your story, you’re sharing you could test anytime throughout the day. Should we, as an experiment, test every time we pee, or only in the mornings, or what’s the best way to go about testing our pH to balance as good feedback?   [00:22:33] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yeah, all throughout the day. It’s so fun to do, honestly. I know it sounds terrible, and most of my clients, when I run my programs, are like, “Oh, do I really have to?” I’m like, “Yes, yes. You have to, and I promise you, you will love doing it at the end.” This client, she’s been with me for three years, she’s like, “Oh my God. I couldn’t wait to test my urine pH.” I knew that. I felt so much better. That’s the beauty of it. With my urine pH test strip, there’s 100 in a container, there’s 50 in a separate foil so they stay fresh because humidity and light affects them. It’s inexpensive. It’s like $12 or $13 for 100 tests.  Check at least three to four times a day especially getting started. Your first pee in the morning, I’d love for everyone to wake up with a urine pH of seven. I would love that. That just makes me happy just thinking about everyone waking up with a urine pH of 7. An alkaline urine pH is more associated with healthier bones, decreased risk of inflammatory conditions like diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart disease, and cancer. If we can monitor this, again, because it’s not just about what we eat, it’s how we manage stress. Also, Ashley, what’s really fascinating is I have a terrible dairy sensitivity. I discovered all this as I figured stuff out. Let me step back a second and tell you how I recognized that cortisol in my urine pH, I mean, I never learned that.   [00:23:59] Ashley James: In medical school, this is something they don’t teach?   [00:24:02] Dr. Anna Cabeca: No, I didn’t. No, I never learned that. We look at urine for ketones. There’s a pH pad on our urine test strips, like our 11-count urine test strips, but we’re looking at ketones. That’s on there too, but typically, we’re looking for white blood cells and nitrites for a urine infection or bilirubin in our urine. There are a few different things that we look at in our urine. It’s like, “Okay, well you’re not too far on this side and you’re not too far on this side. I guess it’s not a flag.” When I started really recognizing that when I get into ketosis through my ketogenic diet, I was getting inflamed, and irritated, and kind of angry, and cranky. I called it going keto crazy. That’s where I recognized, “Okay, I’m just too acidic.” Check my urine pH. It was as acidic as the urine pH paper would read. That’s when I’m like, “Okay, add in the alkalinizers like kale, kale soup, collard, collard greens, chard, Swiss chard, and also beet greens, not the beets, but the beet greens.” I’ve got some great recipes in my books for those. Very alkalinizing and so mineral-rich, and I kept piling those into my diet until I would start to see some alkalinity, and as well adding apple cider vinegar, and increasing my Mighty Maca Plus, and incorporating some additional herbs and spices to help with alkalinity as well. Then the mornings I walked on the beach, I was more likely to be alkaline all day. I started to test that, and certainly, the mornings I take my gratitude journaling, the mornings I walked on the beach, the more alkaline all day. The mornings I woke up late, and hurried, and rushed my kids off to the school bus, and ended up driving them to school because I missed the bus with them, certainly, much more acidic all day. That was a big aha moment for me. Even when I was thinking. “Oh my god. I have the stressful situation that I have to address at the office or in my personal life,” that created more acidic urine pH. As I started discovering this in myself, and treating, and coaching other women to discover this for them also. Find out what makes them more alkaline, what makes them more acidic, and we just started doing this. I’ve been doing this for six years now. Food sensitivities, I can tell right away if I’ve been given something with dairy. I’m incredibly dairy sensitive, so for example, a pesto sauce has some parmesan in it, I will be acidic the next morning. That sensitive. It can help us figure out that food sensitivity too, the inflammation. At least that’s what I’ve been playing with that because I haven’t read that anywhere. It’s pretty interesting.   [00:26:55] Ashley James: Are there ever times when our urine should be acidic? Like, “Oh, that’s a good thing it’s acidic.” Because it means that it’s getting rid of something.   [00:27:07] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Definitely after our workouts. Lactic acid is secreted in our blood, certainly, and we’ll become more acidic. When we’re dehydrated we’re more acidic. Definitely, after an intensive workout, we’re more acidic and you’ll see that.   [00:27:21] Ashley James: Any other times other than that? That’s good to know about dehydration because I think that the majority of people walking around are dehydrated and they don’t know it. That’s good to know. If they can’t dial in their pH urine, maybe try increasing their water intake after a workout. Are there ever any other times in which we would expect or we would want to see a urine pH that is acidic?   [00:27:55] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Not that we’d want to see it acidic, not that I can think of.   [00:28:03] Ashley James: When we’re first entering ketosis, or when we’re fasting, or when we’re burning fat, all of that?   [00:28:12] Dr. Anna Cabeca: We don’t want to see it. We really want to see it more alkaline, but we will definitely. This is something my community has Q’d me in on. All of them was get alkaline first, then push into ketosis. Many women, once they’re in ketosis, have a really hard time regaining that alkalinity, but the combination is powerful. The combination is so powerful, so certainly, when we’re fasting, we’re going to be acidic. Don’t stress about it, but if you can hydrate more, add some minerals to your water, anything that we can do to nourish our bodies while we’re fasting, that’s awesome. I’ve also done some dry fast. Very acidic during those for sure.   [00:28:51] Ashley James: Can you explain the biochemistry of what it means to be alkaline or acidic in our pH? What is present to make it acidic, or what’s the body not doing well? Is it too much hydrogen? Not enough carbon? What’s going on that’s causing acidity?   [00:29:13] Dr. Anna Cabeca: This is very interesting. When I’m looking at urine pH, because we’re not talking about blood pH when we’re talking about acidity and alkalinity, at least I’m not. Sometimes you’ll hear the alkaline myth, “It doesn’t matter, your blood pH stays stable no matter what.” It does, for the most part, unless you’re really sick. If I had a client coming into my emergency room and they were really sick. I would put a needle in their radial artery, not the vein, the artery, and draw it on arterial blood gas. Now, we’re going to measure that pH, and that pH has to be so close to 7.4. It’s just slightly alkaline, and if it’s a little high, a little low, that person’s really sick. Most commonly, they’re coming in acidotic. In that case, the first thing we do, we’ll give them IV bicarb. We’re going to give them something like baking soda, not IV, but we give them bicarbonate IV to alkalinize them. We’re going to get them an alkalinizer like baking soda is very alkaline. Half a teaspoon of baking soda in some water, drink that down, you’ll have some alkaline urine pH. There’s that shift on physiology, but our blood pH is going to stay really stable. How does it stay really stable? It robs Peter to pay Paul, so if we’re fasting, we’re going to get our minerals from our bone, from our muscle, from ourselves. We’re going to rob Peter to pay Paul essentially to keep that blood pH super stable. Consider the urine like a thermometer is telling you, “A little bit cold, a little bit hot. Okay. You’re too cold. Let’s warm you up a little bit. Let’s get more alkaline.” When we’re looking at this across the kidneys, when we are stressed, cortisol increases hydrogen ion secretion across the renal tubules, so we see that as a more acidic urine pH—power of hydrogen. We’ll see that. We’ll see that. When we’re more inflamed, more malnourished, or eating very high sugar inflammatory foods, also when we have high glucose, we’re also going to push out cortisol, so we’ll see more of an acidic urine pH. It really has to do with the ions across the cell membranes. I mean, sodium, potassium, chloride, magnesium. I mean, we look at all the different minerals going across the cell membranes as well. Looking at that from, again, the underlying, underlying reason why we’re not feeling good, we always go back to the cellular level. That’s how it guides us. The physiology guides us.   [00:32:12] Ashley James: Interesting what you said about baking soda. Is it because we’re deficient in something that baking soda provides? Like we’re having a deficiency in sodium? Does it mop up something? I mean, is this something we should all be supplementing with, or is it just a stopgap, and what we really need to do is eat greens because they’re so alkalizing?   [00:32:39] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Really, we should eat more greens because they’re alkalinizing and give us fiber, but bicarb for a short term anyway, what bicarb does it just helps with the alkalization. The abbreviation for bicarb is HCO3, not that that really matters, but it’s a byproduct of our metabolism. It’s more alkalinizing to our body. Not 100% sure how that works with sodium, and potassium, and chloride—the other electrolytes—but it does help with the pH balance. Our body will produce it naturally. The body will make bicarb as a byproduct or basically carbon dioxide. It’s essentially a form of CO2 gas. When we look at the cell exchange, the membrane exchange, you have sodium, potassium, chloride exchanging over the membrane. When we take sodium bicarb orally, we’re giving this alkalinizer, these highly-charged alkaline molecules, essentially, that quickly we’ll see that by-product in our urine.   [00:33:58] Ashley James: Did you have an aha moment around testing urine pH? How did you come across that piece of information? Because you must have started testing yourself first, right?   [00:34:12] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So just in studying functional medicine from early 2000, one of the things that we’ve learned when we’re detoxing our bodies, eating more alkaline foods like our tenet is 80% alkaline, 20% acidic, really want to look and check your urine pH so that it’s alkaline. So there, it was all about food. That’s when I really had pushed that with my clients and my patients as part of our detox regimen in hormone balancing. But now, here I was, gaining that weight at age 48. What I used to do wasn’t working any longer. That’s when I went strictly ketogenic, but at that point, I had stopped testing myself because I’ve been pretty much on a healthy regimen for a while. During that time, I was like, “I’m feeling crazy, keto crazy. Why is keto not feeling good like it does for my male counterparts?” That’s when I just said, “Okay, well let me just check my urine and see what’s going on.” I mean it makes sense that I’d be a little bit more acidic, but not as acidic as I was. The aha was that once I really pushed those alkalinizers on board, and I was alkaline and in ketosis, or how I had an alkaline urine pH and in ketosis at the same time, and I felt so much better. I had the clarity, I felt energized. I call it energized enlightenment. I felt peace. I told you I had three kids in three different schools, and yet, nothing in my external environment changed, but I felt peace. I was able to respond instead of react. I was at home in my body again, and the weight just came off.   [00:35:50] Ashley James: You knew you were on to something.   [00:35:56] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yes, yes. I knew I was on to something. When I discovered that for myself, that’s when I brought in some of my most difficult patients/friends that were part of my medical practice and my community. I brought them in, I said, “Once a week for eight weeks this is what you’re going to do. Exactly what I’ve been doing. You’re going to get keto green. You’re going to follow this.” I wrote out a menu plan, I created a regimen, gave them a checklist—a to-do list, made them do questionnaires. I put all of that in my book, The Hormone Fix, and like, “You’re going to do this with me. You’re going to do bone broth in between for some evenings,” I made this whole regimen. That’s basically my plan in The Hormone Fix. Every one of them felt better. Everyone who had been at a metabolic stall lost that stubborn weight and just, again, symptom scores dropped by—gosh, in that group—over 70% to 80% within a few weeks. That’s what’s really beautiful, and that’s what we see. What we’ve seen now with Keto-Green 16 in the 16-day intense plan that I’ve created, again, it’s work, it’s a discipline and a practice, but it definitely works. We’ve seen as much as a 90% decrease in symptom scores in 16 days. We’ve seen some really beautiful stuff.   [00:37:11] Ashley James: Have you published any of these, or are you planning on doing clinical studies, or getting it out there to the scientific community?   [00:37:22] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yes, definitely. I’ve written about a couple of the studies in my book Keto-Green 16, and we will be publishing some of these clinical trials that we’ve been doing. So my Keto-Green 16, we have a pilot clinic near the University of Gainesville in Florida, Dr. Angeli Akey’s clinic. She’s been running group medical visits for the 16-day plan for my Keto-Green 16 plan. We were playing with it as I was making the menus and recipes. I couldn’t give the recipes from the book, of course, so I had approval from the publisher and had some Galley copies to use. We finally have been able to do that, but even with the rough guidelines, we’ve had amazing success. With Keto-Green 16, another group is running through it right now. We’re gathering results, gathering research. We’ve seen an improvement in diastolic blood pressures, improvement in resting pulse rate, and again, up to 90% improvement in symptoms, and definitely an improvement in hemoglobin A1cs. We are going to publish this data when I have time. We’re getting, ideally, some interns or residents to eventually help me with the research.   [00:38:48] Ashley James: Cool. If there are any listeners out there that this is their specialty, then contact Dr. Anna. We got to get you some more interns, some more residents so we can get this out there.   [00:39:03] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Definitely. There are residents who have a requirement like we did at Emory to do research, so I welcome it. I definitely would like someone to write up this stuff.   [00:39:13] Ashley James: Very cool. So you picked number 16, why is that: 16 days, 16 food, 16-minute exercise? Is there any science behind it? What’s up with the number 16?   [00:39:33] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Definitely. And 16-hour intermittent fasting. The number 16, in general, is a good number. There are not many 16-day plans. I actually don’t know of any other 16-day plans out there, so that makes it new. A colleague of mine just said, “You know what, if you’re used to doing 10-day plans, you’re used to doing for two weeks or 21 days, having a different number really is like, ‘Okay, this is new. I can commit to this. This is something that’s different.’” I didn’t even realize that until recently, but the number 16 is about beginnings. About beginnings and completing/finishing. Also 16, sweet 16, it’s just a beautiful number. There has been research that showed within 16 days, we can really see some scientific results, some good scientific results. As well as 16-hour intermittent fasting. That’s part of the 16 plan, so 16-hour intermittent fasting. Ideally, between dinner, the night before, eaten by 6:00 PM or 7:00 PM and breaking fast 16-hours later with a Keto-Green meal, typically between 10:00 AM or 11:00 AM.   [00:40:39] Ashley James: That’s totally doable. That’s very easy. I’ve done the one meal a day intermittent fasting. I’ve done water-only fasting. I’ve done where you just have breakfast then you have dinner, playing around with it, but just basically having dinner that’s between 6:00 PM & 7:00 PM and then not eating until 10:00 PM or 11:00 PM. I think some people do that by accident, so that’s pretty easy. Should people not do something more intense? Is there a reason for that, or is this a minimum like 16-hour intermittent fasting minimum? But could people do 20-hour, 22-hour if they wanted to do one meal a day, or do you see evidence to suggest we shouldn’t do that?   [00:41:27] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Well, I think that in general, if you’re a type 1 diabetic on insulin or a type 2 diabetic that’s poorly controlled, you need to be under your doctor’s supervision to do this, and if you’re pregnant, or breastfeeding. Although, I definitely have taken care of many moms that inadvertently were hyperemesis that fasted for extended periods of time, so healthy, healthy babies. But we can’t recommend that, so I would say not without your doctor’s guidance. Each of us is different. So if you have issues, but the person is like, “Oh, I have to eat very often, very frequently because I get low blood sugar.” I address that in the book. We can definitely get you intermittent fasting. It’s about blood sugar stabilization. Ashley, what’s really fascinating and fun is that as part of creating the recipes for Keto-Green 16, I discovered and started using over a year ago the FreeStyle Libre, which is a 14-day blood sugar monitor. It’s a sensor that goes in your arm. It’s technically only for diabetics, but any doctor can prescribe it for you. It goes in your arm. It just taps in. It’s just a filament that’s in there. There’s no needle in your arm or anything just in your triceps area. It stays in there for 14 days and reads your blood sugar—essentially interstitial sugar levels, glucose levels—around the clock. As I created the meals, as I worked with intermittent fasting, as I pushed the limits, created the combinations of food so that it doesn’t spike your blood sugar at all. What that means, you’re not going to get a peak in blood sugar, and you’re not going to get that deep valley—that low blood sugar that’s causing the hypoglycemic reaction because the meals are really well-balanced. Then I teach those principles too like combine your healthy fat, good high-quality protein, and lots of greens, and low carbohydrate greens, so that you get good fiber in there, which also helps with blood sugar stability.   [00:43:36] Ashley James: I love it. I interviewed Dr. William Davis, the author of Wheat Belly. He’s a cardiologist that believes the key to healing the heart and preventing heart disease is balancing blood sugar. He said in our interview that 100% of the adult population should own a glucometer. It shouldn’t be an issue of whether you’re diabetic or not. We should all use a glucometer an hour or two after each meal to see, “Was that a good meal for me or not? Is my body responding well to that or not?” And to use it as a guide just like you’re talking about using pH as a guide, also using a glucometer as a guide.  You’re saying, we can wear one if we get our doctor to prescribe it, we can wear one for 14 days. That would be fantastic if we wrote everything down that we ate, did a food mood journal, write down our sleep, our stress, our water intake, and our food, and how we feel throughout the day emotionally and also physically. Then look at what the monitor says, and go. “Oh, those times I’m stressed. What’s my pH urine doing? What’s my blood glucose doing? Oh, those times I didn’t get enough sleep. Wow. That really affected my blood glucose. Oh, the times that I ate,” like you said, “the parmesan in the pasta. It’s amazing when I eat pasta without parmesan versus with parmesan how much does that make a difference.”  Just dialing it in and figuring out that our blood sugar can be affected by more than just eating a doughnut. It could be affected by stress, sleep, and food sensitivities. Also, some people can’t handle grains, some people can’t handle whole grains. Some people can’t handle legumes or beans, some people can. Some people do better on the green keto, and they’ll see that, they’ll see that in the numbers. That feedback that you get when you see, like you said, your urine pH go up, your urine pH go to a healthy alkaline level, and your blood sugar blood glucose go to a healthy level. That’s the feedback that allows us to say, “Hey, it is really working.”  I feel as though many women who’ve dieted many times have a distrust of their body, and it’s like the mindset. Even though, let’s say, they buy your book, which we can pre-order right now. Keto-Green 16, we can pre-order it. I know it’s going to be out on audible, I’m excited for that. You’re recording it, it’s going to be your voice, which is super exciting, just like your last book. But I feel like women and men who have been on many diets don’t trust their body especially if they’re in their 30s and 40s and they’re premenopausal, we feel like our bodies have betrayed us. I’ve met a lot of people, I myself have been through this. The mindset, having to heal the mindset around my body, but the feeling that our body’s betraying us, or the little voice in the back of your head says, “You know, this works for other people but it’s not going to work for me.” We could be on the diet for a few days, let’s say the Keto-Green 16 diet. We could be on it for a few days, and that little voice is going, “It’s not going to work for me, it’s going to work for other people.” But then to get the external results of watching blood glucose normalize, of watching pH come into a healthy level. The little tests that we can do at home would help to affirm that we’re on the right path.  If they’re going in the wrong direction, then we can go, “Okay, there’s something here to uncover,” like you said, like Nancy Drew. There’s something here to uncover, and figure out, and decipher about my health, but it’s giving us extra feedback externally that will allow us to dial in our health. Are there any other tests at home that we could do to help us see that we’re on the right path? Maybe something we could journal or something we could see that goes, “Oh, yes. I know this is working for me. I know I’m gaining health because of these results.”   [00:48:13] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yeah, absolutely. I definitely have loved wearing the 14-day monitor. Anyway, we can just check finger sticks of blood sugar too. That’s helpful as well. But it was really another interesting point, before we leave, the monitor. What I didn’t know was that when I did my boxing, my high-intensity boxing workouts, and they’re an hour and a half or so, that my blood sugar would go up to 150, it went 200, and that’s fasting because I’ll eat after my workouts. So that blew my mind. Because I check urine pH and ketones, I check with my Keto-pH urine test strips, I was like, “After this great workout, why am I not in ketosis? Certainly, I’m definitely acidic. Why am I not in ketosis after I’ve just worked out so hard? Surely I’m using fats at this point, right? Especially I was in ketosis before I went.” That blew my mind to see, “Oh, yeah. That makes sense though because our muscles release glycogen so that we have glycogen for fuel and for energy during our workouts.” I thought that our body’s so brilliant, so that was beautiful to see and a surprise for me, but it absolutely makes sense. I wouldn’t have realized that unless I was wearing my 24-hour monitor. That was fun. Then, of course, urine pH and ketone testing because if we’re not testing we’re guessing, and that’s a really big thing too. Just things, observation like observing, doing your weight. As much as we don’t like to, I encourage people in the 16-day plan, do weights day because sometimes we eat a food sensitivity, and that’s going to make us heavier despite doing everything right, and we have to decipher that for ourselves.   [00:50:03] Ashley James: If you all of a sudden gained 5 pounds in 24 hours, that’s not fat, it’s inflammation and water. I use the scale every day because I’ve caught foods that all of a sudden I’m five pounds more or seven pounds more, I’m like “Well, that’s water.” Then I cut out that food, three days later it’s all gone. I know that I had to put that on the list of the foods that my body doesn’t tolerate. So it’s really interesting. We have to make sure that we’re emotionally—I don’t know. We don’t want to get triggered because I feel like some people, whatever the scale says, they’ll end up doing some self-harm like going off their diet completely, or bingeing, or anorexia—starving themselves, or depriving themselves. We have to understand that the scale is feedback not for fat because women lose weight very slowly. A quarter-pound a week, half a pound a week, if you’re like really, really trying, that’s fat. If you start losing pounds, that’s water and inflammation. If you start gaining pounds very quickly, that’s likely water and inflammation. I mean, it could be other things like constipation, but we just need to understand that if it goes up really fast or down really fast, it’s probably either dehydration, or losing inflammation, or gaining inflammation. We have to check in with ourselves emotionally to make sure that we don’t take the numbers on the scale and then do self-harm as a result.   [00:51:56] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Right. The numbers on the scale should not determine our mood.   [00:51:59] Ashley James: Right, or our behavior. We should use it to correct behavior in a positive way, but not in a self-harm way.   [00:52:10] Dr. Anna Cabeca: I agree. It’s information-gathering. So, definitely, I have clients that are like, “Nope, I’ll never use the scale. I just feel how my clothes fit, how my rings fit,” and that’s perfect too. That’s absolutely perfect too. If you know the scale’s a trigger, don’t use it, but I want you to be observant. I want you to discover what works for you, and what doesn’t work for you. The same thing with how hydrated are you. When you use the bathroom, is your urine clear? That’s just a simple look. Look and see. When you’re having bowel movements, do they look like dark brown bananas? That’s a good thing. That’s what we want, okay. That’s good. Little self-assessments like that are really beneficial. And our energy level.  In my books, in The Hormone Fix, I have questionnaires for medical symptoms, toxicity questionnaire, hormone symptom questionnaire, and a checklist on a daily basis. I have clients start out with choosing and saying their cheer word—a word that makes them smile when they think about it and say it. That’s a cheer word. I have them do gratitude journal on this checklist, what are you grateful for? Write it down. Then check your pH, check your urine ketones. Have you done your alkalinizing drink? What movement have you had? Bowel movement and physical movement. Those factors that help guide us through making sure I’m doing the best I can do for me during a day, and I know when I get away from doing that. I’ve created this checklist years ago now, but when I get away from doing it on a regular basis, like now with kind of all this stuff over the last couple weeks, it does make a difference. I’m like, “Yeah, I got to go back to doing my checklist.” How many hours am I sleeping at night? How much water am I drinking? Movement every day and just checking in with myself in this way. That’s helpful. That’s been really helpful for me for sure.   [00:54:16] Ashley James: What’s the relationship between insulin, and cortisol, and our other hormones that we need to be aware of? Many people say, “Well, I’m not diabetic,” but insulin, even if we’re not diabetic, or pre-diabetic, or have metabolic syndrome, insulin still is a hormone that we want to keep in balance. Could you explain cortisol? For those who don’t know what cortisol is, could you just explain insulin and cortisol, and the relationship between those two, and how they affect the rest of our hormones?   [00:57:46] Ashley James: You’re not lying. This is exactly what happens. I can’t tell you how many people, and I’ve been doing health coaching for several years, and how many clients have told me that their numbers continue to get worse year after year, and their MD said, “Come back next year, you’ll be diabetic then, and then we’ll get you on XYZ drug. But you’re borderline right now.” None of them were given guidance besides, “Well, maybe see a dietitian,” and the dietitian told them like what they can and can’t eat at McDonald’s. I mean, it was just ridiculous the ignorance, and it’s focused on the system. The system is focused on wait to get sick and then get on a drug. If your blood numbers, if your lab results are moving in the wrong direction but you aren’t sick enough to get on a drug, they have nothing for you. They have no resources for you because they’re not trained in medical school how to correct the body. These diseases are caused by our diet. Why are doctors not trained in this? It drives me up the wall. The majority of deaths and diseases in the United States are caused by diet. Why are we waiting to get sick, and then throwing drugs at the problem when the problem is the diet. So I love that you’re teaching us how to correct the problem with a healing diet and then how to monitor our own health. Of course, see a doctor, see a great physician, see a functional medicine practitioner, or Naturopaths. You see a doctor that actually has dedicated their life to studying how food affects the body. We should all have a doctor like that and use food to heal the body and use the pH test strips and the glucometers so that we can dial in our health. I love that when we’re in our 50s, be like you. Your body thinks you’re 30. You’ve got wonderful A1c hemoglobin levels. Now, does this way of eating, this very cleansing way of eating, does it also increase insulin sensitivity? See this is the question, I’ve heard from some experts that if you eat a diet with oils and high fat that you don’t increase insulin sensitivity. I’d love for your input. Have you seen that people on your protocol get insulin sensitivity? You can see it in labs, and then if they were to go back to eating, I’m not saying eating the standard American diet, but if they were to go back to eating let’s say potatoes, or brown rice, or they incorporate some more carbohydrates, does their blood sugar spike up again, or do you see that they have achieved insulin sensitivity and so they’re more balanced?   [01:01:08] Dr. Anna Cabeca: That’s a great question. Well there are many ways to do a ketogenic diet, right? There’s keto dirty and there’s keto clean, which is Keto-Green. You can be ketogenic and eating all day, essentially, eating fats all day, you know what I mean? Then you really can get into ketosis that way, but that’s not ideal. That’s why especially for perimenopausal, menopausal, and postmenopausal women it’s that we are more insulin resistant. We are designed to conserve energy, to be the last ones to eat. I think in my household they’d like me to serve them and then eat. So our body is designed for that, and the more insulin resistant we are, the more hot flashes we have, the more problems we have with diabetes, hypertension, and cardiovascular disease. The more likely we have inflammation, aches and pains, and lower quality of life. That’s the more insulin resistant. Hot flash is a big, big issue in these clients. What we’ll see very quickly as we shift to be more insulin sensitive through intermittent fasting and no more snacking, there’s none of these three meals, three snacks. That is just not a care. Eight-hour feeding windows, or even four-hour feeding windows. I’m like, “No, no. We don’t do that.” We break fast and then we don’t eat again until our next meal, and no snacking. We hydrate in between because if we’re drinking all our fluids we’re supposed to be with our meals, we’re diluting our digestive enzyme that’s meant to break down the food. I mean, that’s just pure chemistry. We’re also flushing through partially digested food is one of the reasons why probably many people have [sebum 01:02:50]. So free refills with your meals, that’s destructive. I absolutely see an improvement in insulin sensitivity with my Keto-Green plan 100%, and even with myself because I have been traveling. Came back from Portland the other day, I was wearing my monitor still as I’m playing with some feasting recipes. I wanted some dark chocolate, didn’t have any, but I had some dates in the house. I had five or six dates, which typically, three is my limit because that’s like my full carb count on three dates, but I had six dates. My blood sugar went up to 200, no lie, but it was only up there like for not even a few minutes. My interstitial glucose went up to around 180 or 200. I was shocked. I was like that was just six dates, but it was right back down again. I mean, insulin did the job it needed to do. I was pretty [inaudible 01:03:46] to see that. I was like, “Darn, darn.”   [01:03:49] Ashley James: No, that’s good. That’s actually great. That’s what your body’s supposed to do.   [01:03:55] Dr. Anna Cabeca: That information it’s exactly what it supposed to do, yes. No low either. It didn’t go way low to get that hypoglycemic as if I’d had simple carbs.   [01:04:04] Ashley James: Yeah. You ate five or five or six dates. They’re very, very high in sugar, but the sugar’s natural. It’s a fruit. It’s very concentrated. It’s like a superfood, but you don’t want to do it too excess. Every time I see dates in the store I’m like, “If I buy them we’re probably going to binge them.” They’re so good.   [01:04:26] Dr. Anna Cabeca: So bad. [Inaudible]… in baking.   [01:04:29] Ashley James: What I think I’m going to do the next time I buy dates is I’ll prepackage them in little reusable Ziploc bags. I’ll go, “Okay, here’s three at a time,” or something. Because you grab a bag of dates and then all of a sudden you realize you ate 10. They’re very sweet. With dates though it caused your blood sugar to go up, and then you saw it immediately go back down, and that means you have insulin sensitivity. Because insulin resistance means it stays high for a really long period of time, and that’s what causes the damage. This is my understanding, and please feel free to add more information. That the longer we have high sugar, as the sugars high, so you’re sure was high for a very short period of time, and then it got back. It got into the cell because the insulin brought it into the cells. It left the bloodstream, and then your cells were able to turn it to energy, and that’s exactly what they’re supposed to do, but if the insulin receptors are not working correctly with insulin, then the blood sugar stays outside of the cell. So the cells are starving and we are having high blood sugar for a longer period of time in the blood on the outside, and that causes inflammation and damage to the cardiovascular system and to our brain, which is what Dr. Ayman is seeing. That high blood sugar is causing dementia and causing basically holes in the brain, in the cardiovascular system of the brain. The culprit is the insulin resistance, and of course, the bad diet, which causes it. But you’re seeing that your Keto-Green way is balancing insulin sensitivity, bringing back insulin sensitivity, and balancing blood sugar, and it’s also affecting the cortisol and the oxytocin. I’d love to hear more about what you’re seeing in these hormones as they’re balancing.   [01:06:35] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yeah, well I agree with you 100%. A big part on blood sugar in the brain, which is so eye-opening to me, is that gluconeogenesis and the brain, ability for the brain to use glucose for fuel, is an estrogen-dependent phenomenon. So as our hormones start to decline, especially progesterone—when progesterone starts to decline and now in this time of stress high cortisol, I mean progesterone is needed to make cortisol. It’s also higher up on the food chain, so to speak than estrogen and testosterone. So as our body is pushing to make our stress hormones, we’re also depleting our reproductive hormones even more. In the case of estrogen needed to be on board for gluconeogenesis in the brain, the brain fog, the dementia, the memory loss, the some timers—my patients would sometimes call it some timers. “I have some timers, Dr. Anna. What should I do?” I had experienced that, but ketones are not estrogen-dependent, so that is why getting Keto-Green is really mandatory for really every woman over 40, and periodically. We bump into ketosis and then we have a couple of feast days and we bump out. We want that metabolic flexibility, that’s just part of life and living. That’s okay, but we need to use ketones for fueling the brain to eliminate that starvation mode despite having an abundance of glucose, which is they are causing damage and oxidation.   [01:08:08] Ashley James: Now, could we get the same results if we ate, let’s say, a whole food plant-based diet where we were eating 9-12 cups of a variety of vegetables a day, and then doing intermittent fasting or water only fasting three days a week or something where our body’s going into ketosis because we’re not eating for three days, or eating very, very little like drinking broth or something. Our body goes into ketosis naturally because we’re fasting, and then we come out of it, and we eat lots and lots of vegetables. Instead of eating high fat, could we get the same results by eating plants, and then fasting, and going back and forth between the two, or is there something magic in eating high fat as well?   [01:09:03] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Really, we need the flexibility, Ashley. In my program, I encourage extended fasting as well. I’m absolutely encouraging it because we want our body to make its ketones, not just from the fat we’re eating. We want to encourage that, and there’s a place for fasting. Before I make a major decision, I fast for three days. I make sure I’m Keto-Green for sure, but I’ll certainly do an extended fasting, and that makes a difference in our lives. It really does, especially the older we get. We get that clarity, we really get that alertness, and really, if we’re doing it right, we are even more energized. I have in Keto-Green 16 because I have a lot of clients, for personal reasons, they’re vegans or vegetarians. I don’t judge. I created a plan to help them get Keto-Green and be a vegetarian or vegan. I want them to have enough protein, enough healthy fats, and to incorporate principles so that they can experience the same benefits. Because of this whole inflammatory factor, many of my vegetarian clients breathing way too many carbohydrates, and their hemoglobin A1cs were unacceptable. In this way, through lifestyle, through intermittent fasting, through low carbohydrate protein sources, increasing healthy fats, and spacing the meals, that helps them improve insulin sensitivity. Certainly, with my plant-based eaters, extended fasting is very doable and desirable as well. For me too, at least once a month, I’m doing three days of fasting.   [01:10:54] Ashley James: I love it. I think I shared this in our last interview, but for those that didn’t hear it, I had a very interesting experience with the ketogenic diet. I feel like I eating way healthier than the dirty keto, but I wasn’t eating as clean as the Keto-Green. We were eating vegetables like kale, but I feel like we were eating more meat. It felt almost close to an Atkins diet, which I think a lot of people accidentally do. When they’re trying to achieve Keto, they end up going Atkins. It’s not about the 24-ounce steak on your plate with some butter. That’s not ketogenic. It was doctor-led. We, my husband and I, did it for three months. Weekly meeting with a Naturopath, testing our blood ketones and testing everything and our blood sugar. Every week we’d adjust the diet based on what our results were, and she also would hook us up to this machine that would test to make sure that we’re not losing muscle mass. Then we had our labs done. My husband had kidney damage so bad he had to be put on two medications. My liver became so inflamed that I went for an ultrasound, and they said my liver was very inflamed. All my liver enzymes were through the roof. My doctor said that if it didn’t start to go down she wanted me to get a liver biopsy. It was really scary to see that a diet, which was doctor-led, could cause so much damage. It took us over a year to get my husband healthy enough, to heal his kidneys so that he could get off of those two medications. I did a lot of work to heal my liver. It took me a while. It made me shy of the ketogenic diet. Looking at it, I see, “Okay, yeah. You know what, it was probably more meat and definitely not enough vegetables.” I feel like you’re diet, Keto-Green, there should be a different name for it. We could disassociate your diet from the Atkins, keto dirty diet that a lot of people out there are doing. Now, my husband and I were not doing cheese because both of us are dairy sensitive. But we were doing a lot of bacon, a lot of ghee. We were doing a lot of nuts, and a lot of coconut oil, and a little bit of kale, and a lot of bulletproof coffee—a ton of bulletproof coffee. Very acidic foods besides the kale, very acidic. I’m sure if we had tested our pH, which man that was missing. Because if we had tested our pH, we would have seen early on, “Hey, something is unhealthy here.” We might have been able to course-correct and not do that damage. I want to share my experience to help the listeners know that just any keto diet is not okay. That there’s a significant risk if you do the dirty keto or Atkins. Have you seen this in your clinic? Have you seen people have really unhealthy results from a keto diet that isn’t your version, which is incredibly alkalizing?   [01:14:48] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yeah, absolutely. I hear from clients all the time that, “I tried keto before, and I hit a wall. I tried keto before, I didn’t feel good.” I mean that’s what it was for me, I didn’t feel good. The inflammatory markers can definitely increase in keto. There is a right way and a wrong way to do it, and that’s how it is. Especially men have 10 times as much testosterone as women. That’s very protective. We are more fragile when it comes to this, so we have that alkaline piece. I can’t emphasize it enough. Plus the choice of foods, the menus, the recipes. In Keto-Green 16, 16 key ingredient types for hormone balancing, for good protein sources, for digestion, and just name it. It’s really designed to be very balanced, healthy, and get results at the same time. Absolutely. There are women who all have had so many significant problems. In fact, I just had this testimonial that came in today, let me see if I can find it real quick, that was from one of my clients in my Magic Menopause program. I have a 10-day Breeze Through Menopause program. She said, “I’ve been having hot flashes for three years. My OB-GYN put me on a medication normally used to treat depression but was also known to help hot flashes. The medication helped ease the intensity but not get rid of them. I decided to try the Breeze Through Menopause program. On my fourth day, I noticed I didn’t have any hot flashes. I was so excited but thought it was a fluke. I completed the program one month ago, and I followed The Hormone Fix. I have not had a hot flash since. Doing regular keto made me feel terrible, but your way just made the difference,” Donna.   [01:16:43] Ashley James: I just wish there was a different name. We need to erase dirty keto from our mind and Atkins, just erase it.   [01:16:58] Dr. Anna Cabeca: When we’re talking about ketogenic it’s the creation of ketones, but when we think of a ketogenic diet—high-fat, bacon, and butter—we think about that keto dirty diet. But getting our body into ketosis gives us so many benefits, it really does. A high energy source. We’ll have to come up with another name. For now, it’s Keto-Green, Keto-Green 16.   [01:17:25] Ashley James: I love it. I love it. Can you tell us some of the 16 foods that are in the Keto-Green 16 book?   [01:17:32] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yes. Certainly healthy meats like grass-fed beef and bison, wild-caught fish like salmon or a white fish. Those are great choices. Avocado gets its own category. I just think it’s so great.   [01:17:46] Ashley James: I have an avocado every day. It’s so great.   [01:17:50] Dr. Anna Cabeca: So good, so good. My heart hurts for people with avocado sensitivities. They’re so good. Also, that’s very rare, but every once in a while, I come across someone.   [01:18:00] Ashley James: My son is allergic to avocado. If he avocado just touches his food he gets asthma. He has a severe allergy. There was a California roll or something and I took the avocado out but there is trace amounts, and he immediately got asthma. He’s so allergic to avocado, which is really sad. It’s so sad because he used to love it. He just developed the allergy, just boom, all of a sudden. I eat an avocado every day. I just love it. I can feel for the people who have avocado sensitivities. I definitely want to finish your list, but just tell us, why is avocado such a superfood?   [01:18:40] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Healthy fats, minerals, nutrients. It’s just one of that. I don’t know. It’s really this protective fruit, really. Just from the fatty nature that it has and it’s rich in phytonutrients. I don’t know. It’s just one of those delicious superfoods.   [01:19:05] Ashley James: It has fiber. It’s also the satiety factor. I can have an avocado and that’s it. I’ll eat up avocado maybe with some greens or some sauerkraut because I’m really busy. I’ll just throw it on some greens like a salad, and boom, four, five, six hours later I’m good. I don’t have to eat. It’s really wonderful for that satiety.   [01:19:35] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Because it has that healthy fat in there too, and that it’s creamy. When you’re eating it, it’s creamy and delicious typically. That’s a nice sensation when we’re eating it too. Putting a little bit of avocado into your smoothies makes them so creamy, and making some great desserts like key lime pie with avocado. I’ve come up with some great recipes.   [01:19:59] Ashley James: Are you kidding me? Is that is one of your recipes?   [01:20:02] Dr. Anna Cabeca: So good. Yes, that is one of my recipes. That’s one of my favorite recipes. It’s either in The Hormone Fix or Keto-Green 16. It’s probably in The Hormone Fix. If not, it’s one of my bonus recipes. Key Lime Avocado Pie, let me tell you. We found some really great ways to use avocado. Then you mentioned sauerkraut. Fermented vegetables such as sauerkraut, kimchi, that’s one of the sixteen. Some of them are categories. Cruciferous vegetables because we need that for healthy hormone metabolism, and lots of good fiber so cabbage, broccoli. You can mix and match. You can substitute any cruciferous vegetable for the other, but they’re all so good for us and for hormone balancing. Those are some of them. Added in a couple of fruits for digestive enzymes to use as part of our evening meal, but if it keeps us from getting into ketosis, I recommend that we eliminate it. Papaya, mango, and pineapple. Again, just the not overly ripe, just ripe, just right so that it’s not too much sugar. A little bit goes a long way, and it really does help at the end of a meal, adding a little bit of digestive support, plus it’s a fresh fruit for dessert. We get a little bit of that in there in the plan, but yet if it’s too much to keep us out of ketosis, we just eliminate it temporarily. Those are some, and then of course, onions. The concept between the greens and the different ingredients, we want things that are going to support our detoxification in our metabolism that have methylators, sulfurators. Rich ingredients to help with, again, hormone balance and decrease inflammation in our system also help with elimination. Many people on a ketogenic diet have a lot of trouble with constipation. Everyone really needs to have a bowel movement a day. That’s part of it too, part of a plan.   [01:22:14] Ashley James: How many grams of fiber are on your program would you say per day?   [01:22:20] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Well, in carbs in general, I didn’t separate fiber grams but about 40 grams of carbs.   [01:22:27] Ashley James: On your program, people have at least one bowel movement a day?   [01:22:35] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Mm-hmm.   [01:22:37] Ashley James: That’s much different from the dirty keto, which is very constipating.   [01:22:43] Dr. Anna Cabeca: It’s the other things like the instructions to drink in between your meals, not with your meals. To really chew your food until it dissolves in your mouth versus swallowing half-eaten bites of food, which I know I’ve done. Also, intermittent fasting can really help. Plus, if we need to, probiotics, magnesium, vitamin C because I instruct, if you’re getting constipated, you have to do these things. Increase your oil, adding extra olive oil can be beneficial to help with that too or omega-3 supplementing. But we have to have bowel movements every day. That’s definitely one of the objectives.   [01:23:23] Ashley James: How do you handle the keto flu? In the first three, four days of doing the ketogenic diet, people feel flu-like symptoms. They feel pretty crappy because their body’s been depending on glucose. It’s run out of all the glucose in the muscles and in the liver, and now it’s just starting to turn over into making ketones for fuel. But somewhere around there, as we’re being deplete in glucose, we haven’t quite yet got the ketones up. We’re feeling pretty crappy. How is it that your program lessens that?   [01:24:02] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Because of the alkalinity factor. I really push towards getting alkaline first. Getting alkaline first, hydrating really well, and then we don’t get keto flu or keto crazy as a result of it. Nope, not at all. I have worked with clients. They’re like, “Oh, I just went right into ketosis.” I’m like, “Well, you didn’t follow instructions. Let’s do this. Stop what you’re doing and let’s backtrack.” It does, it makes a difference. We don’t want anything that’s going to create more free radicals or inflammation. Granted, keto flu, it will eventually come to an end at some point or another, but that’s not what this is about. It’s not. I want healthy from step one. I want to feel good from step two. I mean, I want to feel good right away. Why would I do it? Why would I do it again, and again, and again? That’s my… [inaudible 01:25:02].   [01:25:03] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. You don’t want to feel sick while you’re eating to get healthy. What the heck? If you’re feeling sick, there’s something wrong. That’s your body saying there’s something wrong. So you’re saying that when people get the keto flu it’s because they’re acidic and they’re dehydrated.   [01:25:20] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Right, right.   [01:25:22] Ashley James: Very interesting. Would that be the same? Would you say that people should get alkaline and hydrated before they start a three-day water fast? That would be the same concept that we should go into it.   [01:25:34] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Absolutely.   [01:25:35] Ashley James: My friend, who eats a whole food plant-based diet, we both do, she eats probably 12 cups of green vegetables a day, at least, or drinks them. She makes a smoothie that’s kind of insane. She fills the Vitamix with all kinds of wonderful greens. It’s great. She pushes her Vitamix to the limit. She recently went on a five-day fast, water-only fast. I did a fast recently too. We were both expecting to feel some weakness. Imagine yourself, because every time we fast is usually when we’re sick in bed like, I’m too sick to eat, right? Most people don’t go, “I’m just not going to eat for a few days and see what happens.” What we noticed is that we had more energy, not less. That we didn’t get shaky, we didn’t get weak. We actually were more motivated. She said, “I can’t believe it. I am doing things around the house.” She listed off everything. It was 11:00 in the morning. She listed up 20 things. She goes, “It’s not even noon yet. I did more in a half a day than I normally do in an entire week.” She just noticed that emotionally, her motivation went through the roof. That’s really, really exciting that this idea of getting the body alkaline, and then getting into a ketogenic state, whether we’re fasting or eating the Keto-Green diet, would improve our mood, improve our mental clarity, but also improve our motivation, and our drive to do things in life. Have you seen that as well in your clinic?   [01:27:25] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Absolutely, absolutely. In my own life, are you kidding me? It’s like oh my gosh. I’m looking at my room right now. I’m like, yeah, I need about a three-day fast. That’s why I fast before I do any major decision to really gain that clarity. I always joke, and I’ve said this on stage. At that point I was 48, I had brain fog, mental fatigue, I was making some really bad decisions. I was making some really bad decisions. I mean, I was even engaged to the wrong person, let me tell you. I made some bad decisions, and that’s brain fog. We can’t have that. There’s just so, so many references to fasting, biblically certainly, and in so many religions around the world. I really believe the reason is that higher spiritual connection, that clarity that removes all the clutter, takes off the ceiling, takes off the roof so to speak, and really have that higher level of connection. That’s why it’s this energized enlightenment that we experience with the Keto-Green plan. Getting alkaline and in ketosis at the same time, it changes our electromagnetic energy, changes our physiology. It raises our vibration without a doubt, and that’s where we want to be. If we’re going to do it, it takes a little bit more tweaking to get Keto-Green, but it raises our vibration. It feels so much better. The same with fasting. Again, as you discovered, actually, once you get through day two, because our ghrelin hormone is so high on day two, it gets easier. It just gets easier.   [01:29:02] Ashley James: I love it. Oh yeah, the ghrelin hormone. Aren’t there three hormones that affect hunger?   [01:29:13] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yes. There’s leptin which is that we’re satiated, and there’s ghrelin, which is like the gremlin, the hunger hormone, and that makes us feel hungry. There are a few others, but adiponectin is another one that affects our appetite and also our metabolism. As we get older, that one goes down as well. I really believe that’s tied to a different biologic clock than our reproductive clock hence that 5, 10, 20-pound weight gain without doing anything different. It has a lot to do with the adiponectin hormone. Those are the three major ones that I deal with in really working through this program. There are actually 13 hormones that I talked about in Keto-Green 16 just for awareness that it’s complex, and the plan I created addresses every one of them.   [01:30:09] Ashley James: Have you ever tested those three hormones that affect hunger and satiety in patients before and after doing your program?   [01:30:19] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Only adiponectin so far, not really leptin and ghrelin. I think that is really pulsatile so I think it’s hard to test, and not so sure on the results with adiponectin. In the couple clients, testing myself and testing a couple of their colleagues, we see a little bit of an improvement, but not much. We didn’t really see moving the needle significantly with that, but we definitely have seen the scale move in our hemoglobin A1c improve.   [01:30:50] Ashley James: I had my levels tested a few years ago. My entire adult life I’ve been dieting. I’ve been dieting for health, I’ve been dieting for weight loss, and I’ve been working on healing my body my entire adult life. In my 20s I was incredibly sick. It was in my late 20s that I started to turn my life around. I was able to heal type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections for which I needed monthly antibiotics for, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility. I was very sick, so using food and supplements to fill in the gaps, I navigated. I had to go, “Okay, this works, this doesn’t work.” I had to keep shifting my diet and finding. I’d go three steps up, one step back, and I just keep going. My whole 30s has been about healing my body. I have to look at it from every angle because health isn’t just physical, it’s emotional, and spiritual as well, and mental. I had to look at, well, what’s going on emotionally and mentally that am I overeating? Why don’t I feel full at times? Why is my plate bigger than other people’s plates? Is it that my metabolism is different, are my hormones different? What’s going on? Is that emotionally I’m doing something? I found that no matter what, I just never felt full. I never felt satiated. Even if I ate a full meal, I always felt there was something missing. So I did emotional work, I did mental work. I’m very happy for the personal growth. I put years into growing as a person. Then I came across these hormones about satiety and hunger. I had to also work on my relationship with hunger. When I start to feel hungry what emotions come up for me? There’s this fear response. What’s going on there? Is this part of our ancient neurology to be afraid of starvation, or is this something that I have for my childhood? I did a lot of personal work, but I also went and got these hormones tested, and sure enough, they were so out of whack. They were so out of whack my doctor, she’s a Naturopath, and she goes, “No wonder. No wonder you feel the way you feel.” She explained it. “Your brain thinks you’re a 90-pound starving person. Your brain is getting the wrong signals from your body. Your brain is saying, “Quick, we need more nutrients. We’re starving, we’re starving, we’re starving.” I’ve been fighting, I was fighting against these hormones because everything was out of balance. Everything interplays with each other, and you’ve described this, but this whole endocrine system is not compartmentalized. They’re all affecting the cortisol, and oxytocin, and the insulin, and all of our sex hormones. They all play off of each other and affect each other. Of course, everything I was eating was affecting them, and here I was fighting with food to figure out, what’s going on? Why am I always hungry? Why am I never satiated?  Switching to eating a whole food plant-based diet, for me, it’s like it turned something on in my brain. Maybe it was all the fiber, maybe it was the alkalizing, maybe it was all the vegetables, maybe it was cutting out processed food, maybe it was all of them. But I feel satiated. It’s past 1:00 PM here. I haven’t had breakfast. I haven’t had lunch. I feel fine. I feel great. If I feel hungry, it comes and goes really fast, and the panic in my body doesn’t happen. I’d love to go back and get my three hormones tested again just to show, but I could feel it in my body. I’ve shifted something big, and I’ve been doing this eating more alkaline for the last two years now, and I just really feel that eating the way you described where you’re eating getting healthy fats like avocados. If you eat meat that you make sure it’s the cleanest meat possible. If you fish, you’re getting the wild-caught. You’re eating really clean, no processed foods, and you’re getting tons of vegetables, and you’re focusing on alkalizing your body.  I felt so desperate for so many years, and I felt I was suffering for so many years. Then just the light bulb went on when I switched into eating this way. It’s just so healing. It’s so healing. My body’s now coming back into balance. I’d love to see more research done on those three hormones, but I can tell you that I feel it. You must see it with your clients because you said, they’re getting tremendous results with balancing their weight and balancing their hormones. I’d love to hear about the feedback of how their relationship with food changed emotionally.   [01:36:20] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Oh my gosh. That’s such a big topic. I feel like I wrote this book for women like you, for women like me, for those of us that have been a slave to our physiology, that’s been screwed up because we were just doing the wrong stuff. We thought we were doing right, but we’re doing the wrong stuff. There’s that physiologic imprinting, so to speak, the habits that are formed. Like I said, I used to go to bed thinking about food and wake up thinking about food. I was a slave to hunger. My mom was a baker growing up. I could drink syrup, basically. I had such a sweet tooth. I love it, I love it. That hormone ghrelin, that’s a really big one. That hunger hormone is a really big one for women and men to override, but it is possible. That’s where the healthy fats are so necessary, and that’s where blood sugar stabilization is so necessary, that’s where the combination of foods, and ingredients, and when and how we’re eating is so important to master because physiologically, it honors our physiology, and we’re in control, and no longer feel like we’re in a battle with willpower. Because willpower is not an issue anymore, it’s just like okay. We’re not a slave to a habit, or physiology, or the ghrelin hormone, or the hunger hormones, or becoming leptin resistant. We never feel satisfied. Oh my gosh. Did you ever see the Hamilton musical, Ashley?   [01:37:47] Ashley James: I haven’t. I haven’t. It’s not here in Seattle.   [01:37:50] Dr. Anna Cabeca: So good, so good, but there’s a song in there, I will never be satisfied. You just got to listen to the soundtrack. It’s a great song. I mean, that should be my theme song, seriously.   [01:37:59] Ashley James: Okay, I’ll check it out.   [01:38:02] Dr. Anna Cabeca: You’ll have to listen to it. It’s great. It really is very interesting how our hormones can drive us versus us drive our hormones. I lecture on hormones all over the world, you know that. I lecture on testosterone and estrogen, and one of my big peeves with some of these testosterone clinics is that look, testosterone can increase your novelty-seeking behavior. Can create divorces, can create affairs because you’re upleveling the testosterone into super physiologic zones, and that affects mental reasoning, without a doubt. Behavior affects physiology, and physiology is affected by behavior.  In the plans, and I laid it out in The Hormone Fix in really good detail. I just kind of blended it in Keto-Green 16 by creating a lifestyle, creating patterns, creating behaviors that empower our physiology like intermittent fasting, like no more snacking, like feeling satisfied enough out of a meal with the combination of foods that we’ve eaten to not have that hunger in between meals. A little bit of hunger is okay. We recognize that. A little bit, right? A reasonable amount. It’s okay to say, okay I’m not overstuffed at a meal, not to be completely full or overstuffed at a meal either. To start to dial those things in. That’s okay too. It’s listening to our body and empowering our physiology.  I was totally a slave to my physiology with willpower, and hunger, and binge eating, and struggling for decades of my life. It was only over the last decade and a little bit that I’ve been liberated from that.   [01:39:47] Ashley James: I love it. We can use food as medicine to heal our body. I’ve interviewed four or five cardiologists now. All of them use slightly different diets, and they all get great results at healing the heart, but the one that has the hands-down best results with healing heart disease, and reversing—even four blockages in the heart—reversing heart disease, and angina, and high blood pressure, is Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn. His diet is very low fat, although, he says you can have a handful of nuts and seeds a day. There are zero oil and zero animals or animal products in his diet. It’s tons of vegetables, and I mean tons of vegetables, whole grains, and potatoes, but mostly vegetables. He sees very rapidly clogs in the heart clear up. He’s got people, basically, off of death’s door. That’s a very specific diet. That diet would not be optimal for healing hormones. You’ve talked about hormones need fat, but if someone has heart disease and they’re on death’s door, go do that diet because he’s published studies and shown that that diet is incredibly healing for the heart. If we’ve got hormone imbalance and we don’t have heart disease, then this diet is shown to be healing. There’s no one diet that fixes everyone. That would be ludicrous to think that we could put everyone in one diet and be perfect because everyone’s got different health problems. We have to triage.   [01:41:38] Dr. Anna Cabeca: On that note too, men and women are different, right? Men have 10 times as much testosterone as women. They have bigger muscle mass than we do, bigger bone mass than we do. There are differences between men and women. The menopausal women need something different for sure, not just for hormone imbalance, but for cardiovascular protection. We need healthy hormone levels, healthy estrogen, healthy progesterone, healthy DHEA. We need as much testosterone as we can get circulating for healthy bones. This is really important. We know statin medications lower cholesterol, lower our testosterone levels. We look at this, but it’s not just what we eat. This is where it’s not just about the diet, it’s not just about what we eat. The when, the with who, the other aspects of what we’re eating and what we eat ate become really critically important. Timing of meals, intermittent fasting, no more snacking. These principles give us more flexibility too in what we’re eating so we can fine-tune it for us. But ultimately, we have to test not guess. In the case of the cardiologist, monitoring the patient so we’re seeing improvement. We have to do as much of that as we can. We have to self-monitor as much as possible. How am I feeling? How does this resonate with me? What results am I getting? How’s my urine pH test? Everyone’s going to go get some urine pH and ketone test strips right now.   [01:43:08] Ashley James: You’re going to give us the link. We’ll put it in the show notes.    [01:43:13] Dr. Anna Cabeca: It’s so important. By figuring that out, discovering what works for us and what doesn’t work for us I think that’s critical. It’s not just about following a diet plan, it’s a lifestyle. It’s a lifestyle within what we know works for us. Within our fasting regimen, I’ll say, 80% Keto-Green regimen and then another 10% feasting regimen so that we’re having, we’re experiencing life, we’re laughing, we’re playing, we’re doing more of the things that really are as if not more important than what we’re eating. I love that there are different things, different ways for people to explore and play, and ultimately, to see and decide what works best for them. It can be different over time. What I did in my 30s and early 40s, I mean, it stopped working when I hit 48. Despite not doing anything different, the scale moved. The brain fog, came on, and all that stuff. The timing too and maybe different stress levels in our life too. We have to do different things as well. That’s important to realize.   [01:44:28] Ashley James: Your message is really relevant now because the whole world is stressed out. In the next year, we’re going to see women’s health decline across the board because stress affects hormones, and hormone imbalance affects women’s entire life. It affects our brain, our ability to function, it’s very significant. Your message is very relevant right now and for the coming year. Stress is always going to be there, we’ve got to do things to mitigate stress. But using the pH test strips for example and going, “Oh wow. Okay. I’ve got to do something to balance my stress because I was watching the news yesterday, and my pH has gone down, that my acidity has gone up.” For those people that don’t know, like you said, 7 is good pH in the AM, but some of us don’t remember it from high school science. Can you talk about the pH scale, and what’s good, and what’s not good?   [01:45:42] Dr. Anna Cabeca: In general, our pH scale is 0 to 14, so the lower the number the more acidic we are. When we think of acidity, I always like to think of acidity like New York City—industrial, a lot of concrete, kind of inflammatory. Alkalinity, all the way at the other end of the scale, from 7 to 14 that’s on the alkaline side. Think of the Amazon jungle. Think lush, greenery, think of being outside, enjoying yourself, a waterfall in the background. I mean, it just sounds lovely. So that’s more alkalinity. Again, our blood pH stays around 7.4. Different parts of our body have different pHs. Our stomach is very, very acidic, and the vaginal pH is acidic to kill off sperm and bacteria. It’s naturally acidic. It gets more alkaline as we get older. The skin has a lower acid pH, and again, it’s part of our defense mechanism. Then different areas are more alkaline, which is so fascinating to me how the body is so interconnected, and yet there are organelles running at different pHs. Pretty cool. How it can shift based on what we’re experiencing, but urinary-wise, again, emphasizing we want to see that urine pH at 7.4-7.5 above that in general, but most people when they start checking, they’re at a urine pH of 5 or 6. A lot of shifting has to be done. Now, I forgot your question.   [01:47:29] Ashley James: You answered most of it. It was, explain the pH scale for those who don’t know it. You did beautifully and brought in the analogy of New York City versus the Amazon jungle, 1 to 7 being acidic or New York City, 7 to 14 being alkaline. A 7 is sort of the middle, right? But neutral.   [01:47:51] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Neutral. Seven is neutral.   [01:47:53] Ashley James: Then upwards towards 14 is the Amazon jungle. That we don’t want to alkalize our stomach acid, for example. Don’t take a bunch of baking soda right before a meal. We don’t want to alkalize our stomach acid. We actually want to support the acidity of our stomach acid to help us have healthy digestion, and that’s a whole other topic because most heartburn is caused by too little stomach acid not too much. I’ve had several guests talk about that on the show, pH in different parts of the body, very interesting, but the pH that we can learn from is our urine.  What numbers are really good to see throughout the day? You said if we had a 7 in the morning, our first-morning pee, if it’s a 7 that’s great, but throughout the day, it would be different, right? What are good parameters to see throughout the day?   [01:48:51] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Definitely depending on your activity level. To really maintain it, 7, 7.5, or 7 to 8 throughout the day, at least above 6.5. Now granted though, after a workout, after a hard run, anything like that, after a stressful situation, you’re going to be more acidic. After a good workout, you’re going to rehydrate, have a good Keto-Green shake, something like that. So you want to really work to optimize so that you run a urine pH 7 to higher. Now, if you’re going to bed acidic and waking up acidic, you’re probably not sleeping well. Your body’s probably not repairing itself well while you’re sleeping. So if we can shift to get alkaline before we get to sleep, and then ideally wake up alkaline. Now it can take a lot of time for some people, especially if you have high blood sugar or other chronic inflammatory conditions, but don’t give up, be persistent, continue to see what works for you and what doesn’t. We can supplement with additional minerals like magnesium at bedtime and even hormones, certainly, like progesterone. During this time of stress, adding progesterone, if we’re over 40, at bedtime on a cyclical basis can be very beneficial for us too, because again, stress will produce cortisol, which we rob progesterone to make so to speak. There may be some additional hormones that we can use or adrenal adaptogens like my Mighty Maca Plus. One of the reasons I created it with the combination of ingredients was to add those alkalinizers, so think chlorella, spirulina, and maca is an adaptogenic alkaline root. There’s turmeric in there so we can make a turmeric tonic, a turmeric tea. We can add some green tea during the day. That’s also an alkaline tea. Adding some of those, that’s like 30 superfoods in my Maca Plus, Ashley. It’s a good combination.   [01:50:52] Ashley James: I love it. I love your Mighty Maca Plus.   [01:50:55] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Thank you.   [01:50:56] Ashley James: I’m sorry. I totally interrupted you because I’m so excited. It tastes so good, and my body buzzes in a good way. If you eat a really great kale salad your body’s just buzzing. It’s like, woo, your body’s so excited. My body gets so excited when I drink your Mighty Maca Plus. It’s refreshing, it tastes delicious, and I don’t drink coffee anymore, but it would be a great replacement for coffee. It feels so good. Actually, I ran out, and I’m like, “Oh man. I could totally go for some right now,” because it is so delicious.   [01:51:31] Dr. Anna Cabeca: I’m going to send you some.   [01:51:33] Ashley James: I love some. I totally recommend listeners buy and try it. It’s delicious. Try replacing your coffee or your tea with it because the maca has natural caffeine, but it wasn’t overstimulating. I could totally fall asleep at night, and I’m very sensitive to caffeine. If I were to have chocolate, like a little bit of dark chocolate at 4:00 PM, I can’t sleep. That’s how sensitive I am to caffeine. Your drink, I could drink it during the morning. I even had some in the afternoon, and I totally was able to get into sleep, so I found it to be very gentle, but my body buzzed. I love it. It’s so delicious. You talked all about your journey, and how you discovered the ingredients, and formulated it in episode 326, so listeners can go back and check that out. That is awesome.   [01:52:30] Dr. Anna Cabeca: That’s awesome. We’ll give your audience a free trial too. We have now four single pack, so a four-day trial of it. Just give it a try, taste it, because the biggest fear factor with greens is the taste, right?   [01:52:44] Ashley James: It tastes amazing.   [01:52:45] Dr. Anna Cabeca: It looks like fear factor, but it does taste.   [01:52:48] Ashley James: No, it has almost a little bit of a mint flavor to it. At least that’s what I perceive, but I thought it was delicious. It was very refreshing. It tastes very refreshing. I enjoy it tremendously. That’s fantastic. So we’ll get the link to that and put it in the show notes, so listeners can check out your four-day trial as well. That’s wonderful. Before we wrap up, I wanted to cover this last topic. You talk about cortisol, oxytocin, and how you can get to the point. So for those who don’t know what these two hormones are, cortisol—the stress hormone, oxytocin is the feel-good love hormone. If you hug someone for 30 seconds you get a boost of oxytocin. I had a friend that would count as we hugged because she’s like, “We got to get the oxytocin. Let’s count to 30 together and hug each other,” so it always stuck in my mind. Cuddling your animal, your dog, or cat, or your children, or your husband, or wife, or whatever. You got to cuddle for more than a five-second hug. It’s got to be a long hug and then you get this oxytocin, but you were talking about how we can get disconnected. Women live in the state of cortisol to the point of burnout, but we can get disconnected where we don’t feel oxytocin, where we’re not feeling the joy in life, we’re not feeling the satisfaction. Even to the point where we’re not just feeling the love for our family or for ourselves. Suicide is on the rise. It is very scary especially in the generation, I believe, ages 10 to 24 it went up over 50% in the last few years. It’s the number two cause of death in that generational cohort. So suicide is on the rise. I imagine if someone has a cortisol-oxytocin disconnect, especially for veterans who come back from the war. They have a tremendous amount of cortisol, and you’re talking about this disconnect. Can you explain how that works in the body that we have a disconnect, or where we can’t feel our oxytocin, and how can we correct it?   [01:55:05] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Yes, absolutely. Because I’ve lived it, and I am definitely worried about our society too with the social isolation add that into the hormonal, physiologic disconnect that we’ll be experiencing if we don’t take these practices to heart. That’s why I’m so passionate about getting this message out, Ashley. This cortisol-oxytocin disconnect is when cortisol goes high, oxytocin goes low. There’s that, okay, if cortisol is high and I’m fighting an enemy, you don’t need to love your enemy. Okay, God, I know what you said. Love your enemy. There’s a reason for that practice, right? There’s some philosophy behind that statement because I mean, hate it affects our liver, it affects our detoxification organ. I mean, it really does. Cortisol goes up, oxytocin goes down, and then when cortisol is up for a long enough period of time, it’s like frying out our nervous system.  So the constant hits of oxytocin, the news in the morning, and the afternoon at night, or daily, and just fear. Fearful thoughts, real or perceived fear, is going to affect our cortisol levels. So when cortisol is up for a long enough period of time, it’s basically frying our nervous system, but our brain is smart enough not to let that happen. So a command center in the brain called the paraventricular nucleus turns and shuts down that cortisol, so it’s like putting the brakes on cortisol. So all of a sudden, now cortisol is low and oxytocin is low at the same time. So you feel disconnected like, “I know I love my husband, I don’t feel love for him. I know I love my work, I don’t feel love for work. I know I love to paint, I just don’t ever pick up the paintbrush anymore.” Whatever it is. The activities I love to do I’ve stopped doing. Also, you stop going out, stop taking social engagements, stop interacting, more and more isolated, and that’s a physiologic disconnect. Now what’s really interesting is there was a recent article published at the end of 2019 that looked at soybean oil because soybean oil has been used in so many food manufacturing businesses, and frying, and this [that 01:57:16] and the other. Well apparently, soybean oil can affect our oxytocin receptor site too. That’s pretty crazy, right? That’s just really crazy. So kind of getting a generation hit from both ways between we’re in a war against a virus right now and how we eat. By getting Keto-Green, getting the ketosis part creates insulin sensitivity. The green part manages cortisol and empowers oxytocin. That getting alkaline part is learning not just about how we need to nourish our body but the activities and lifestyles that temper cortisol and increase oxytocin. That’s where we really honor and empower our physiology. We have the mental clarity, the joy, and the passion to do it.   [01:58:08] Ashley James: I love it. We all could use less cortisol and more oxytocin.   [01:58:15] Dr. Anna Cabeca: More oxytocin, yes, yes, yes. Laughter increases oxytocin.   [01:58:21] Ashley James: Now, I’ve heard that during fasting we have a spike in cortisol. Have you seen this?   [01:58:27] Dr. Anna Cabeca: I haven’t measured it, but yes, I’ve heard that.   [01:58:31] Ashley James: We get all these great health benefits from fasting, and so the increase in cortisol is, I guess, part of that. It doesn’t create negative outcomes.   [01:58:47] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Not for short duration. I don’t believe so, no. I’m not 100% sure why physiologically we do have a spike of cortisol, unless that’s to get glucose like a spike in glucose as well. So increased cortisol, increase glucose to just squeeze any of that out through fasting, that kind of life-saving mechanism. But I agree, I don’t think it’s detrimental in the short term. It’s when it’s on persistently, that’s the issue.   [01:59:21] Ashley James: Right. We want cortisol to be there. If all of a sudden a boulder’s in our way when we’re driving or something, we have to react quickly. If we have to react quickly, we want the stress hormone to help us stay alive, and then we want it to turn off, and turn the feel-good oxytocin back on. Fasting, although has been around forever, it was taboo for so long in the United States. I feel just since 2012 we’re just starting to study it. All the studies are coming out. It’s starting to become more acceptable to study. It’s becoming more acceptable for doctors to prescribe it. The next 10 years is going to be very interesting to see all the results that come out from intermittent fasting, and from water-only fasting, and from one meal a day, all these different things. Of course, there have been studies here and there, but really, just in the last 10 years, we’re starting to see a spike in acceptability within the medical field. So it’s very exciting.  We’ll see more information come to light about cortisol’s role and how fasting affects the different hormones. Because we have to get over this idea, and I think we’ve just been marketed too that we need to eat three meals a day. It was really good marketing for the food industry to make lots of money. Look at what our ancestors did. Our ancestors went long periods of time without food, and our grandparents would eat breakfast, and then work in the fields, and not eat lunch, and come home, and then eat dinner, and that was normal. So it’s normal for us to not snack like you said. No snacking between meals.   [02:01:15] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Right. Absolutely. No snacking between meals. Even for religions, over the centuries, fasting is part of it. We’re in the spirit of Lent right now. So there’s extended fasting, and the Orthodox Church, they fast over 200 days a year, the Christian Orthodox Church and Greek Orthodox. I mean, there’s so many different fasting like on Sunday, you don’t eat until after Communion. Little things like that have been built into cultures, and it just amazes me because I’m like, “Ah, they must have had a good reason for that.” I always think of this season of Lent. This is usually when harvest is low anyway and people are already seasonal affective disorder. So fasting is really powerful to clear up the mind, to elevate the spirit, to have that higher time of connection. It’s interesting how things have adapted to these principles and put them in place in many different ways, in many different societies. I love it. I just want science to look at women and men differently. So we study and we publish women and men differently, and that’s the biggest thing that was part of my journey, part of understanding how some things can work in men but not women. Certainly, for men doing my plan, they get amazing results.  I had this one guy, we call him Big Bill. He met up with me in Gainesville when I was down leading, just kicking off this next group of clients, 30 people going through the group medical visit for Keto-Green 16. He said, “I’ve been struggling with this, that, and the other thing, but I’m all-in to do this. Anything I need to know because I’m 250-pound male versus many of the women that are in the group. I said, “Yeah, you got to figure out what works for you and what doesn’t work for you. You’re going to measure. I don’t want you to feel like you’re starving. I want you to eat.” And laid it out for him.  I just heard back from him yesterday. He’s like, “I have already lost seven pounds, and I’m just feeling so great.” I’m like, “Yeah, that sucks,” because men get better results quicker. It’s just not fair. They have more testosterone. That’s part of it. They’re also black and white. “Okay, she told me to do this. I’m doing it.” There’s no gray. I even have the grey zone. I’m like, “Oh well, we’re going to have that glass of wine tonight,” or whatever the reason is to have a glass of wine. I can probably find a lot of them. We’ll find the grey zones, and men are black and white. I think for this, this is where the self-discovery part for women comes in, then you really know, you know. “Okay, this is what this is doing for me, or this is what I have to do in order to feel this way and to get this result.” That helps us as women do what we need to do. At least for me anyway.   [02:04:16] Ashley James: I love it, I love it. Let us know about all the ways we can work with you. You mentioned that you have some online classes, and people can work with you online. Just walk us through all the different ways we can learn from you.   [02:04:30] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Definitely join me at my website at drannacabeca.com. I’ve got tons of research there, but I have my online communities. I have a group called Magic Menopause, and I have my Keto-Green Community, a private community group on Facebook. I’m always showing up in Instagram, but really, it’s in my online groups, and through connecting with my office, and joining in one of my programs is probably the best way to work with me.   [02:04:58] Ashley James: Brilliant. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show. Man, we could talk for hours and hours. This is wonderful. Definitely, I recommend listeners check out your book. All the links to everything that Dr. Anna Cabeca does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Keto-Green 16, get the book on pre-order now. The link will be in the show notes. The audible, I’m so excited, is going to be by Dr. Anna Cabeca, so you’ll hear her wonderful voice instead of a voice actor, I love it. I love it when doctors do that. Is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interviews? Is there anything you want to make sure that the listener is left with? Maybe some homework or something about mindset. I just want to make sure that we wrap this up in a pretty bow for the listener so they understand they can heal their body with food.   [02:05:52] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Oh, yes. Go back to that time where here I was, a board-certified gynecologist and obstetrician, trained at one of the best institutions in our country, and my doctor’s bag was empty. It was a pretty hopeless bleak situation, especially when you’re working with some of the best in the field. Honestly, it’s great if you’ve worked with the best of the best, but listen to your body, and don’t give up hope. You know you can be better tomorrow than you are today, I guarantee it. Finding the wisdom that’s inherent to our body, removing the clutter, it makes a difference. I will tell you, I stand behind it. Get Keto-Green and just feel the difference.   [02:06:34] Ashley James: Wonderful. Get alkaline, try some fasting, get Keto-Green. I like that you said remove the clutter because that’s exactly what I felt like when I started doing fasting. It really removed the clutter inside so that I could move the clutter outside. That’s exactly how I felt. That’s really cool. Awesome. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show. Of course, you’re welcome back every time you come up with a book. Your track record is once a year, so let’s see how many books you can get out every year. You’re welcome back every year.   [02:07:07] Dr. Anna Cabeca: Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I look forward to talking with you again, Ashley. Thanks so much.   [02:07:14] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s episode with Dr. Anna Cabeca. Please, go to learntruehealth.com/ketogreen. That’s learntruehealth.com/ketogreen to get all of the awesome bonuses, and downloads, and free recipes, and ebooks, and everything that Dr. Anna talked about today. Go to that link.  In the show notes of today’s podcast, there’ll be other links that you can go to. Dr. Anna has her Mighty Maca. She’s got a sample pack that you can get, and also you could put in your information and it will spit out your exact macros and a meal planner for you that’s personalized to your lifestyle. So check out those links as well in the show notes of today’s podcast, but for sure right now, go to learntruehealth.com/ketogreen to access all the bonuses before they go away because I know it’s a limited time. I know that they’re only going to be up for a while while she’s launching her new book.  Awesome. I hope you have a fantastic rest of your day, and thank you so much for being an amazing listener of Learn True Health podcast.   Get Connected With Dr. Anna Cabeca! Website Facebook YouTube Instagram Twitter Pinterest   Books by Dr. Anna Cabeca Keto-Green 16   The Hormone Fix  What’s Happening To My Hormones (Free E-book)   Recommended Links Breeze Through Menopause Masterclass (Free class by Dr. Anna Cabeca)   Song: Nekzlo - Palm Shadows (Vlog No Copyright Music) Music promoted by Vlog No Copyright Music. Video Link: https://youtu.be/NjaN0uA0LjQ  

Check out Dr. Perlmutter's latest book Brain Wash: https://amzn.to/34X3eeC IT'S HERE! Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen Use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Check out IIN and get a free module: LearnTrueHealth.com/coaching Join the Facebook group: LearnTrueHealth.com/group   Brain Wash https://www.learntruehealth.com/brain-wash-dr-david-perlmutter Highlights: Amygdala vs prefrontal cortex Amygdala-based behavior opens the door for these chronic conditions: diabetes, coronary artery disease, obesity Why eating grains lower people’s immune system Our immune system is represented in the liver, in the heart, in the brain, and in the lungs Feed-forward cycles can be used to our advantage or to our disadvantage Disconnection syndrome   The lifestyle choices we make and the food we eat have a big impact on our overall health. In this episode, Dr. David Perlmutter, author of best-selling book Grain Brain, joins us on the show. He talks about the difference between decision-making based on the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex, and how our decisions relate to our health. He shares with us lifestyle changes we can do, the importance of sleep, the foods we need to eat, and the foods we need to avoid to improve our immune system. Intro:   Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. You’re going to love at today’s interview with Dr. Perlmutter. He’s giving away a copy of his latest book, and you can win a copy of his latest book by going to the Learn True Health Facebook group. There’ll be a post in the top, a pin to the top for the next few weeks. If you’re listening to this and it is April or May of 2020, jump in the Learn True Health Facebook group and win that book. If it’s past 2020, if its past April or May of 2020, no worries, still come join the Learn True Health Facebook group because we do great giveaways there all the time. Our guests love to give away their books and other goodies, so come join the Learn True Health Facebook group. We’d love to see you there. It’s a wonderful supportive holistic community. Now is the perfect time to implement what you’re going to learn today from Dr. Perlmutter. He is going to teach you how to avoid disease, how to even support your body in the face of the coronavirus, and how to support yourself in living an even longer healthier life, so fantastic interview. I’m really excited to share it with you. One thing I will say, since we have extra time on our hands, and we all are at home, and a lot of us are doing home cooking, now is the perfect time to join the Learn True Health Home Kitchen. I teach you how to use food as medicine, to make delicious food for yourself and your family that is also incredibly nutritious and healing for the body. We have recipes that kids love, we have recipes that husbands love, we have recipes that the in-laws love, we have recipes that the whole family loves. Come join the Learn True Health Home Kitchen. Go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. That’s learntruehealth.com/homekitchen, use coupon code LTH for the list of discount. I made it affordable for everyone, and when you join, you’re also supporting the Learn True Health podcast. We regularly upload videos to the membership. There are well over seven hours of content, of videos, of recipes in the membership right now. Great videos teaching you all kinds of wonderful recipes, and tips, and tricks in the kitchen to use using your kitchen as your pharmacy to heal your body and to also stay healthy. Come join Learn True Health Home Kitchen. That is learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. I look forward to seeing you there. Awesome. Enjoy today’s interview. Please share it with as many people as possible so we can help our friends and family to learn true health.   [00:02:53] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 426. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have one of my heroes in the holistic health space, Dr. David Perlmutter, who wrote the book Grain Brain and also wrote his latest book Brain Wash. I am very, very excited. This is absolutely revolutionary—the information that you’re bringing. I love that you bring in so much science to back up everything that you’re showing. Today, you’re going to show us how to gain health on a whole new level using food as medicine. Welcome to the show.   [00:03:41] Dr. David Perlmutter: I am totally excited to be with you today, Ashley.   [00:03:46] Ashley James: Absolutely. A few years ago, maybe about three years ago, I heard a lecture you gave on a summit. For the life of me, I can’t remember which summit it was because I listened to so many of them. Your talk was the best talk in the entire summit, and there were some pretty awesome people there. It totally blew my mind, and I’ve been wanting to get you on the show ever since because of how much I learned from you. I’m very excited to have you here today. Before we dive into talking about your latest book and what we can learn from you, can you tell us a bit about your background? Because you’re an MD. Most MDs don’t get into nutrition and healing the body with food, and I’d love to hear your story. What happened in your life that led you to helping people heal their body with food?   [00:04:36] Dr. David Perlmutter: Well, Ashley, don’t let me disappoint you but there was no epiphany. There was no moment of transition. I’ve been, obviously, asked that question many times, “What was it that turned you in favor of looking at the world through those eyes?” I can’t say there was a moment. I will say that I’ve always been a bit of a disrupter. Even as a kid, I was never satisfied with the status quo of explanations for anything. Obviously, that wasn’t necessarily a good way of behaving in high school, but as years went by, I became a neurologist, and entered a very mainstream neurology practice, and practiced according to the book for 10 years. I became really very dissatisfied with what I was doing with my life. I was treating symptoms, I wasn’t treating disease. I was treating the smoke and ignoring the fire. Around that time, 10 years in, I began looking at was there any evidence that lifestyle choices had any role to play in the development of these challenging neurological problems that I was dealing with on a daily basis? Whether it was brain degenerative disorders like Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s, or seizures, or headaches, or any of the common things that we as neurologists would see. In fact, even back then, the literature was quite robust in terms of making, at least, the correlations between various modifiable lifestyle factors and risk for developing these situations. I felt that offered me a lot more tools for my toolbox, whereas it wasn’t necessarily going to focus on letting people get better right now, which is something I’d probably already mastered because it was in the book how to do it, but rather how to keep these things from happening in the first place—what an idea. I began pursuing that and began realizing that there were a lot of people out there in the world who are like-minded. I began attending integrative conferences and functional medicine conferences and realize that there were a lot of people out there who recognize that we don’t need to be practicing reflexive medicine, but rather pre-emptive medicine. That we could really create lifestyle plans to keep people healthy. What a notion. Especially in our time right now. The notion of healthcare, which is something, with all due respect, not being practiced in America. We talk about our healthcare system, but truly, much as my neurology practice was so very long ago in the early 1990s, we aren’t practicing healthcare, we are practicing response to diseases. We are responding to patients who develop a list of criteria that allows them to get a named disease, and then we respond to manage their symptoms. So very little going on in our so-called health care system that has anything to do with health, that has anything to do with care—in the most important sense of that word. I found that this is where I wanted to be and that I could be much more effective as a doctor—meaning a teacher—if I could focus on ways of keeping people healthy.   [00:08:20] Ashley James: I love that you identify as a teacher. The root of the word doctor is doceri, which means teacher. We should look to our doctor to teach us because we can’t take our doctor home with us. Our doctor isn’t going to cook for us, and tell us when we should go to bed, and tell us how much water we should drink, and follow us around. We have to go to our doctor, a doctor is going to teach us, then we have to take that—what we learn from them—and we have to apply it to our daily life.   [00:08:47] Dr. David Perlmutter: That is fundamental because we just realized, in writing Brain Wash, that that moment that you just described, for those of us who practice integrated functional type medicine, that’s where the system breaks down—three steps. First step, we as the healthcare provider do everything we possibly can to stay up to date, to learn the best information we possibly can. Step two, we impart that information, we act as the teacher, we give that information to our patients, and we depend on step three, that they then implement that they utilize the information that we’ve given them to change their lives for the better. What we’ve learned is that it’s step three—the utilization of the information—where the system breaks down the most. That between 50% and 80% of the information that we give to patients—that we impart—is not acted upon. For many years, until quite recently, I like many, would accuse the patient who comes back week after week, continues to gain weight, continues to have blood sugar climbing, or whatever the metric is that we are following knowing full well that they are not engaging what we’ve recommended. They haven’t adopted the diet, they decided not to meet with the dietitian, they’re not exercising, you name it, and there was really a sense that we would blame them for that. What we’ve identified now is that the actual decision-making part of the brain has been hacked by our modern world. It’s unfair for us to point fingers at patients as it’s unfair for them to point fingers at themselves, “Why can’t I do these things? I know it’s important that I do these things. I’ve went to the doctor. I got this information. I bought all these wonderful books. I attended these online symposia. I know what to do, but why in the heck can’t I do it?” The reason is that, again, our decision-making apparatus is under siege by so many aspects of our modern world. Therefore, it’s not necessarily appropriate anymore to blame patients for not following through, or for people to blame themselves for not being able to act on good information because they don’t have the brain connections anymore to make that happen. That should certainly be one of the areas that you and I focus on moving forward with our time together today. What is it that has so hacked our decision-making ability, and perhaps most importantly then once we understand that, what can we do to regain connection to the better decision-making part of the brain—the prefrontal cortex—so that we can act in a way, make choices that think about the future, that take into consideration how my decision today will impact me moving forward, but also impact my neighbor, my community, the planet upon, which I live moving forward. That is, bringing back our connection to this area of the brain called the prefrontal cortex.   [00:12:20] Ashley James: Can you give us some examples of how our decision-making has been hijacked?   [00:12:26] Dr. David Perlmutter: Certainly. The decision-making parts of the brain are many, but for purposes of our discussion today, I’m going to simplify between two areas. One, as I mentioned earlier, the prefrontal cortex. That is an area of the brain that allows us to bring to bear on our decisions—on our choices—a lot of information from our past experiences, our understanding of the decision that we have to make especially as it relates to the future outcome. What will be the long-term consequences—good or bad—of whatever I decide to do right now? That’s the prefrontal cortex. In contrast to making more impulsive decisions—choices—that come from the area of the brain called the amygdala—the impulsive amygdala I like to say. That is an area of the brain to which we are getting more and more attached by multiple mechanisms these days in our modern world. We know, for example, that even one night of not having enough restorative sleep tends to significantly lock us into making decisions that are short-term, that are impulsive, that are based upon narcissism, and us-versus-them mentality coming from the amygdala. Even one night of not enough restorative sleep is associated with as much as a 60% increased activity of the amygdala. We depend upon a vital connection between the adult in the room—the prefrontal cortex—and the more childlike behavior that stems from the amygdala. The connection allows the adult in the room—the prefrontal cortex—to supervise, to make recommendations, to influence and exert control over more impulsive behavior as would otherwise have been brought about if the amygdala were in charge. So many factors in our day-to-day lives tend to sever that connection between the prefrontal cortex exerting its top-down control over the more impulsive decision-maker—the amygdala. I’d like your listeners to be thinking about this model in the context of what we talked about earlier and that is that critical point whereby we give our patients great information and they don’t act upon it. They don’t make good decisions, they make decisions based upon impulsivity as opposed to thinking about the long-term consequences of an apple versus a jelly-filled doughnut. I want the jelly-filled donut now I’m going to eat it, or in the long run, if I cut back on refined carbs and sugar my health will be better, my immune system will be more balanced, my inflammation markers will be reduced, my likelihood of having a sudden explosion of inflammation should I contract COVID-19 virus, for example, might be dampened. It’s interesting to think about our decision-making as it might pave the way for diseases like diabetes, obesity, coronary heart disease, and even how our long-term decision-making affects our immune responses, and how that might be certainly germane vis-a-vis at COVID-19 discussion. Again, it’s all about, do we tap into our more adult part of the brain—the prefrontal cortex—and let that exercise top-down control, or do we simply lock into the amygdala and live our lives without thinking about future consequences? Now, one of the most powerful influences on whether we’re going to lock into the amygdala and exclude the adult in the room is, as I just mentioned, the quality and quantity of our sleep. Who knew? Not some exotic expensive nutritional supplement, but simply getting a good night’s sleep. Now, what can we add to that? We can add exercise, eating a diet that’s lower in likelihood to cause inflammation, exposure to nature, keeping a gratitude journal. All of these things are really very important ways that we can re-establish a connection to the prefrontal cortex. Perhaps one of the most important daily activities is a daily meditation. The research showing how powerfully meditation practice amplifies the activity of the prefrontal cortex goes back at least 15 years and is really quite profound because you’re able to demonstrate by functional types of brain imaging studies virtual lighting up of the prefrontal cortex—that really good decision maker by simply engaging in meditation.   [00:18:01] Ashley James: When they’ve hooked people up, their brains up to scans, and they have them meditate, and they see then even after meditation—if someone were to meditate every day, how long after meditation do they see the amplified usage of the prefrontal cortex over the amygdala?   [00:18:20] Dr. David Perlmutter: It’s an excellent question, and the answer is for people who are regular meditators that these pathways become more permanent. The more we amplify our connection to the prefrontal cortex through a process of neural plasticity, the more we strengthen that connection then between the prefrontal cortex and its ability to top-down, regulate, or calm down the amygdala activity moving forward. This is, as you well mentioned, this is a benefit that we get even while we’re not meditating. The more we do it, the more indelible, the more strengthening we observe of those pathways that connect the prefrontal cortex to the amygdala.   [00:19:12] Ashley James: One thing I learned about stress is that when we’re in the sympathetic nervous system response, the body shunts resources away from the prefrontal cortex so that we don’t overanalyze things—at least this is how it was explained to me. That we become more reactionary in the moment, like if our house was on fire, we’re in the second floor, we need to just react—jump out the window. If we weren’t in that state of fight-or-flight, we might start overanalyzing something. Is this true that when we’re in a state of stress—and we might not feel cause stress isn’t an emotion—if we’re in a state of stress, and we’re in the sympathetic nervous system response a fight-or-flight, do we really lose or dampen our prefrontal cortex—the adult in the room—that kind of decision-making, and have more of an amygdala response to our decision-making?   [00:20:08] Dr. David Perlmutter: In a word, yes, and there is a very powerful upside to being reactive versus being reflective. There are times when we want to react, we want to react very quickly. As an example, you’re in your car in your driveway, and you’re backing up, and suddenly a child on a tricycle appears in your backup camera. Your foot goes on the brake, and you stop, and a child’s life is spared. Now, that is not the time when you want to engage the prefrontal cortex, think about, “Well, if I step on the brake now, then I’ll slow my car down, and come to a stop, and then likely I won’t hit this kid, and that’s probably a good thing.” If you’re going through that, the kid’s already been hit. What happens is a reflex basically happens that your amygdala kicks in, bang, foot on the brake, and then you catch yourself. You said, “Whoa. What just happened? I responded so quickly, luckily,” whatever. That’s good. So we need that sort of response. It’s life-saving. The problem becomes, however, when we constantly engage the amygdala, we enhance our moment-to-moment connection to the amygdala at the cost of our connection to the prefrontal cortex so that much more of our decision making becomes fight or flight, becomes fear-based, becomes tribal, becomes us versus them, becomes a response to a perceived or real threat. This tends to lock us out of being able to access the prefrontal cortex. That beyond simply having a role in our decision-making is the part of the brain that subserves empathy and compassion. The more we lock into self-serving decision-making, narcissistic behavior, us-versus-them mentality—what we call tribalism—and impulsive behavior, the more we will act in that way. The more we will interact with the world around us from an amygdala-based perceptive point. How do we enhance our connection to the amygdala? Well, watch the evening news, don’t get a good night’s sleep, eat foods that increase inflammation, spend a lot of time on social media to lock you into one frame of reference, one perspective. The average American spends north of six hours a day in front of one screen or another, be it their tablet, phone, or computer, or television. That tends to fan the flames especially these days of fear, of doom. It’s been said that when you’re doing one thing, you’re not doing something else. Spending that much of your waking hours in front of a screen means that you’re not then exercising, preparing your meals, interacting with other people, getting out in nature, doing all the things that tend to relinquish our connection to this fear-based amygdala and allow us to reconnect to the prefrontal cortex. These are the central tenets of our new book Brain Wash. We published this book on January 14, 2020, before there was a single case of COVID-19 in North America. How incredible it is that now we are experiencing a challenge that threatens our good decision-making, threatens our ability to look at long term consequences of the things we want to choose to do today. When we understand that engaging things like social distancing, hand-washing, all the things that we are being to that can limit the spread of this virus, on the one hand, looking forward, as opposed to the ideas of simply, “You know what, screw it. I’m going to go back to work. I don’t care. I’m not going to wear a mask. Come what may. Because I want to do this today,” short-term decision-making. So it has really well characterized this disparity between short-term decision-making and long-term decision-making. It’s important, no doubt, for people to get back to work, and it’s also important for us to go through the behavioral modifications to help limit the spread of COVID-19. Having said that, these are not mutually exclusive concepts. We can do both, and the key here that allows us to get people back to work, and at the same time, reduce the spread of this virus is forward-thinking by implementing testing as aggressively as we can. Let people go back to work who have developed antibodies who are probably immune, and certainly isolate those individuals who test positive in the molecular testing that looks for the activity of the virus. We can satisfy both camps on this one if we are able to amplify the number of tests that are being performed, at least here in America, by at least three-fold.   [00:25:49] Ashley James: I love that you said that we can do both, it’s not black or white. We can get the amygdala thinking, and start reflecting, and having three-dimensional thinking to solve this problem. That takes the prefrontal cortex. That takes getting out of the stress response that we are triggered in when we watch the news or spend time on social media.   [00:26:10] Dr. David Perlmutter: Let me develop this theme just a little bit more because I’m just thinking about something. That is, what are the major risk factors that pave the way for bad outcome as it relates to COVID-19 infection? They are chronological age, biological age, chronic degenerative conditions like obesity, coronary artery disease, type 2 diabetes. Now, the only thing here that it’s not a variable that we can control to any degree is our chronological age. We can’t erase the number of birthdays that we’ve had and that we’re going to have, but our biological age is certainly something we can modify especially as it relates to the immune system. The point is that amygdala-based behavior, “I want to smoke. I don’t want to exercise. I want to eat crappy food.” All of these things open the door for these chronic conditions: diabetes, coronary artery disease, obesity, cigarette smoking, and all of these then are dramatically associated with worse outcome as it relates to this particular infection. So in a very real sense, what’s going on here is decision-making coming from the amygdala is paving the way for worse outcome as it relates to COVID-19. Making better decisions—better choices—as it relates to lifestyle, as it relates to the food you eat, the sleep that you get, the fact that you decided not to smoke, getting some exercise are ways of reducing your risk or even reducing the worsening of these diseases should they have already been established. Therefore, reducing risk for a bad outcome as it relates to COVID-19. It was quite a surprise when this infection began affecting the United States because there was an interesting statistic that became obvious, and that was here in America, younger people were ending up in the hospital and having bad outcomes. It was a great puzzle in the news because people were saying, “Why would our young and healthy individuals in America having such a bad outcome?” That is an interesting statement, isn’t it? Our young and healthy Americans. Understand that young, in America, doesn’t necessarily mean healthy.   [00:28:48] Ashley James: No kidding.   [00:28:49] Dr. David Perlmutter: That is very, very important because we have extremely high rates in North America of things like type 2 diabetes, certainly obesity, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in younger individuals. These issues pave the way for a bad outcome. These are issues of immune dysregulation, and that is the cardinal point here. That’s where COVID-19 takes full advantage of an individual and paves the way for a bad outcome. That’s where COVID-19 insinuates itself into a dysregulated immune system and does its damage. Understand that our immune system is represented in the liver, in the heart, in the brain, and in the lungs. This is why this in infection is having manifestations across the board through our various so-called systems. Yes, it affects the brain. Obviously, it affects the lungs, and yes, liver issues are becoming quite common in people who have bad outcomes, and certainly, the gastrointestinal system as well.   [00:30:01] Ashley James: Let’s talk about diet because the book that turned me on to your work, Grain Brain, focuses on the things that we can cut out and the things that we can implement into our diet that decrease inflammation, but that also, your diet prevents these diseases. The idea of going grain-free or gluten-free, for many people, is a shocking idea. Why is it that eating grains is lowering people’s immune system?   [00:30:37] Dr. David Perlmutter: What an excellent question. Why is it that eating grains is lowering people’s immune system? Think about that. In the context of where we are right now, eating grains, refined carbohydrates—that’s basically what most people end up eating when they’re so-called eating grains—the wheat products that people are assuming that make up 40% of the food that people consume in America. That this is generally in its refined ultra-processed form, and what does that do? It dysregulates our immune system through multiple mechanisms. It disrupts our gut bacteria that influence our immune system through the permeability of the gut lining that then influences where 70% of our immune system is located—the gut-associated lymphoid tissue. That’s one extremely powerful mechanism, but in addition, perhaps through its effects on the gut and elsewhere, it dysregulates our ability to control our blood sugar. That has an effect on immune functionality as well. One of the most powerful predictors of how a person is going to do once they’ve been hospitalized—good outcome or bad outcome—is their blood sugar when they come into the hospital. Higher blood sugars are dramatically associated with poor outcome. Another interesting report coming out of China several days ago calls our attention to one of their laboratory study that’s dramatically associated with a bad outcome, and that is a liver transaminase called ALT. ALT is a marker for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. A metabolic issue that’s for sure, which is extremely prevalent now in younger Americans who are eating diets that are higher in fructose and ultra-processed carbs of other sorts. This all then fits together that we see this dramatic dietary shift that has been going on now progressively for the past 12,000 to 14,000 years since the advent of agriculture. Now that seems like an awful long time, doesn’t it? The reality is that for 99.6% of the time that humans have walked this planet, we did not consume any significant amount of grains. Truthfully, the idea of these highly processed grains giving us sudden spikes in our blood sugar, for example, is something that’s only happened really pretty much in the past couple of centuries, if not even the last century, to the extent that they’ve entered our food supply as we see today. In a very real sense, what we are seeing is the response to COVID-19 very much reflects the types of foods that are eaten in a given country. That is particularly alarming when we recognize that this so-called pro-inflammatory Western diet is very rapidly becoming the global diet just as COVID-19 has become a global pandemic, so has this westernization of our nutrition, which bodes, therefore as we’ve connected these dots, for a worse outcome as it relates to being infected with the COVID-19. So in a very real sense, when I wrote Grain Brain and called out to get back to your question, the dangers at multiple levels to having higher levels of refined carbs, eating a lot of grain-based product that this is a way of increasing inflammation—the cornerstone of our chronic degenerations—which now are those diseases which pave the way for the worst outcome with COVID-19. That also the idea of persistent elevation of blood sugar by a higher carb diet in general leads to a higher risk for insulin resistance that vis a vis the name of the book Grain Brain focusing on brain health, insulin resistance is devastating for the brain. We recognize that Alzheimer’s is, for the most part, a manifestation of a fuel issue fueling the brain, being able to allow the brain to use glucose appropriately that is front and center in terms of being looked at as an etiology player as it relates to Alzheimer’s as recently as January 2020 in the Journal of the American Medical Association. That’s what underscored the importance of diet as it related to general health, as it related to obesity, and certainly, as it related to brain health that we talked about so many years ago now in Grain Brain. Thereafter, we began looking at diet as it related to our gut bacteria, as we began to recognize how important the gut bacteria is in regulating so many of the parameters that are important for our health, our ability to resist disease, and even our longevity. That’s when I wrote a book called Brain Maker. Again, the importance of diet on determining the health of our microbiome, if you will. Why dietary fiber is so important? Why diets high in refined carbohydrates and sugar threaten the diversity, health, and functionality of our gut bacteria, and as such, threaten both our immune systems and our ability to regulate inflammation. Now, we come to 2020 when our son Austin Perlmutter, an internal medicine MD, and I looked at this whole notion, as we talked about earlier, Ashley, of decision making, and realized that making the right decision in terms of lifestyle—like food choices, like going to bed on time—has a huge role to play in regulating immunity, regulating inflammation, and in even making good decisions. That’s where we landed on this, and that is the idea that, again, our decision-making is a manifestation of our lifestyle choices, and that choosing a lifestyle that favors inflammation will cut us off from the prefrontal cortex. Inflammation, in and of itself, tends to allow us to make more impulsive decision, tends to amplify our connection to the amygdala, and therefore moving forward, our choices are poor, we make continued bad choices related to food and other lifestyle issues, fanning the flames of inflammation locking us more into an amygdala-based decision-making paradigm. That’s what’s going on in America right now because we’ve eaten this standard American diet, fanning the flames of inflammation, locking us into poor decision making. We make poor decisions as it relates to our dietary choices, and thus, we continue to be in this feed-forward—what a term—feed-forward cycle where we really can’t get out of the idea of making poor decisions. What we are emphasizing now as we are beginning a training program using Brain Wash as really a course guide for physicians involved in functional medicine, and that is to first not give patients ideas in terms of what they should be doing for their particular ailment, but rather, at first encounter with our patients, give patients options that will enhance their decision-making ability. Let me give you an example. A patient you are seeing with diabetes and obesity comes in, and at the first encounter with this patient, that patient is very surprised because at the first visit we didn’t even talk once about diet and exercise. Why? Knowing full well that these recommendations won’t be carried out, generally. What we do it the first visit is we work on the ability for that patient to regain the likelihood of making better decisions. We work on decision making at the first visit. Here’s a patient, you’re seeing this patient. Clearly needs to be on a diet, clearly needs exercise, but at the first visit what do you talk about? Well, maybe it’s sleep. Maybe that patient sitting across from you in the office, what we’re talking about is, “Hey, let’s get you a better night’s sleep so that in two weeks, when you come back to see me, then you’ve regained better decision-making skills. Reconnection to the prefrontal cortex that then will allow you to make and stick to those decisions that have to do with diet, that has to do with exercise, etc.” Maybe our entrance ramp is sleep, or maybe it’s meditation. Whatever we can do to reconnect to the prefrontal cortex, to offset what we described in Brain Wash as disconnection syndrome, will then pave the way through feed-forward activity to allow that patient then to move forward and engage the rest of the program. As opposed to say, “Here you go. Here’s a list of foods that are low in carbohydrates, high in fiber, high in good fat. Take it home. Hope for the best. That doesn’t work. We know that doesn’t work. Why do we know that doesn’t work? Because time and time again, that patient’s going to come back and have a higher blood sugar, their A1C is going to be worse, their insulin resistance markers are going to be deteriorating, and they’re going to be gaining weight. So that doesn’t work until we work on re-engaging better decision making by actually restructuring their brains.   [00:41:39] Ashley James: Absolutely. Sleep also has a huge impact on blood sugar. I was type 2 diabetic. I reversed it naturally with diet and lifestyle changes. I noticed that if I got poor sleep, for the next 24 hours, I was hungry, my blood sugar was out of control, and it was consistent. But if I got a really good night’s sleep, the next day I could be just smooth. My blood sugar could be stable.   [00:42:09] Dr. David Perlmutter: Ashley, I have to stop you there because what you just said is it’s worth the price of admission. I mean, that’s an e-ticket at Disney World. What did you say? You said you used to be a type 2 diabetic. First of all, just the notion that you are no longer a type 2 diabetic flies in the face of how mainstream medicine treats this problem. Mainstream medicine treats type 2 diabetes with drugs. What happens when you stop the drug? Blood sugar goes right back up. So you didn’t treat the problem. (A) You, on the other hand, treated your problem type 2 diabetes by dietary and lifestyle intervention. (B) You noticed a direct effect of your blood sugar of having a good night’s sleep or not, and that is absolutely profound. When you don’t have a good night’s sleep that is a stress. What is your body’s response to stress? It turns on the production of blood sugar because you need it because you’re in a fight or flight scenario, or so your body thinks. Your cortisol level is higher, your amygdala is activated that very next day, and your food choices are less appropriate. It’s been demonstrated that people who chronically don’t engage in restorative sleep, night after night, consume at an average of 380 more calories per day without an increase in caloric burn in comparison to people who age match, individuals who do get a good night’s sleep. No wonder what you just said has such profound meaning. That’s take-home information. That’s great.   [00:44:04] Ashley James: You said the term restorative sleep. What is the difference between just getting sleep and getting restorative sleep?   [00:44:14] Dr. David Perlmutter: Another great question. I mean, there are plenty of people who will tell you I get 7 to 8 hours of sleep every night, and yet, their cortisols are high in the morning, their blood sugars are spiking, inflammatory markers are elevated, and their decision-making is poor. All of these markers that maybe that sleep was not as restorative as they thought. How would you know? Well you might not know—you will not know—unless you’re able to evaluate, not just sleep quantity, but sleep quality. How can you do that? You need to know that many people think they get a full night’s sleep but have constant interruptions of their sleep by periodic leg movements, by apnea—meaning that they stop breathing—by sleeping with a partner who may be bumping them, or kicking them, and causing their sleep to drop out of the deeper stages though they don’t fully awaken and recognize that their sleep is not restorative. If you’re somewhat asleep, how do you know if you’re getting into the deeper stages of restorative sleep like a deep sleep, like for example, REM sleep? These are important parts of sleep that do good things for our bodies that are very, as we talked about, restorative. You won’t know unless you apply some technology. Now, this can be going into a sleep lab and having a formal what is called a polysomnogram that looks at your brainwaves, and looks at your EKG, that looks at your oxygen saturation with a little device connected to your finger, which I’ve done. That said, we know that there are some pretty darn good wearable devices that can also give you an indication as to the quality and the quantity of your sleep. I use a device called an Oura Ring that downloads into my smartphone in the morning and gives me a very good sense as to how long it took me to fall asleep, how long did I remain asleep, how long was I in the various stages of sleep, and then it allows you to make certain lifestyle changes, to improve certain aspects of your sleep based on what you then know. I think in this day and age, there is technology available to us to not just determine how long we are asleep but what is the quality of that sleep. That is absolutely fundamentally important as it relates to things like our immune function, our blood sugar, our cortisol levels, how active our amygdala is in terms of decision making, etc.   [00:47:04] Ashley James: I just bought an Oura Ring. Actually, it was gifted to me, and I’m really excited to use it. I haven’t used it yet. I just got it in the mail. You mentioned that I’m like, “Oh, I’m going to start playing with it.” That’s really cool. You mentioned that when we don’t get restorative sleep, that we consume on average 350 more calories a day. That doesn’t seem like a lot, but when you add it up over a year that’s 36 pounds. If someone continued that behavior over five years, they’d have gained 180 pounds. What seems like, “What’s 350 calories a day?” It doesn’t seem like a lot, but this is where one bad behavior done over a course of five years can significantly impact the quality of your life, the longevity of your life can either contribute to basically being in an early grave and being in a disease state for the rest of your life. Something as simple as going to bed an hour earlier, putting on blue-blocking glasses, not eating refined sugar, cutting back on the caffeine. These little tiny choices that we would not make if we were in the amygdala because we want the instant gratification. “I want to stay up later and watch more Netflix. Just one more episode,” or “Oh, I feel like a chocolate bar. It’s 11:00 at night. I feel like a whatever.” That’s when people start making really bad choices around snacking and staying up later and later and late because they’re in the amygdala, not in the prefrontal cortex. The more we lose sleep, the more we’re going to just make worse and worse choices, and we’re just spiraling downhill. It just keeps going and keeps going, and it just compounds on itself.   [00:48:48] Dr. David Perlmutter: Exactly. Keep in mind that this doesn’t have to take five years. If you gain 15-20 pounds—you’re going to gain about a pound a week if you’re not sleeping well, as an average. When you gain body fat, a couple of things happen. Of course, you increase inflammation, you increase your connection to the amygdala, but body fat directly translates into less quality of sleep. What happens? You have less quality of sleep, you eat more. You eat more, you gain weight, and you have less quality of sleep. That is a gross example of what is called a feed-forward cycle. That the problem worsens itself over time, and that’s the bad news. The good news is that while in Brain Wash, we outlined eight different on-ramps that you can engage. You don’t have to. You can pick one, and it might be, for example, sleep, and doing the Amber glasses—blue-blocking glasses—cutting your caffeine consumption in the afternoon, getting perhaps more exercise, not snacking after dinner. All the things that we all know are important parts of sleep hygiene that you could say, “I’m going to do this for a week.” If you do, then you’re going to improve your decision-making, then the rest of the plan is far more easy to engage. That becomes a feed-forward cycle that works to your advantage. That’s what we’re looking for.   [00:50:21] Ashley James: I love it. My husband, when we had our child, we lost a lot of sleep. He gained some weight. It wasn’t a lot of weight, but he gained some weight, and all of a sudden he started snoring like crazy. I mean just really loud snoring, and he blamed our new mattress. We got this amazing Intellibed mattress. It’s the best in the world. I can fall sleep in one position, wake up eight hours later in the same position. I just was like solid sleep in that position because you don’t have to roll around. I love the Intellibed. In fact. I interviewed the founder, the creator of Intellibed. It’s really neat how much science goes into it. My husband was blaming the Intellibed. Then he got really serious and cracked down, and he lost about 15 pounds or so, and all of a sudden his snoring went away. He also did some stuff with his diet to decrease inflammation. He did some fasting. Immediately, almost overnight, the snoring went away. It’s not like he had fat around his neck, it wasn’t like anything was pushing, but it was something about decreasing inflammation, losing a few pounds, and all of a sudden his snoring stopped, and he started sleeping better. Of course, then I started sleeping better. It was really interesting to see how some little changes—it all affects each other. Everything affects each other.   [00:51:39] Dr. David Perlmutter: That’s right. We can take advantage of your statement that everything affects each other in a positive way. Everything affects each other also in a negative way. Eat crappy food, gain weight. Sleep poorly, make worse food choices. Again, don’t exercise, you won’t want to get outside, you’re going to binge-watch, and all these things, and spend more time on social media. We can use feed-forward cycles to our advantage or to our disadvantage. It just depends on really finding, as we’ve talked about, an on-ramp that works for each individual. It might be sleep, it might be exercise, it might be keeping a gratitude journal, it might be nature exposure—powerfully effective in reducing cortisol, reducing inflammation. That’s what we need today. We need to offset our risks for chronic degenerative conditions, and that will help us in terms of our outcome if we should contract COVID-19. Look who’s involved with this in terms of bad outcome. I’m sorry to say but it’s people who have unfortunately made poor lifestyle choices that manifest as these chronic degenerative conditions, and that will also cause manifestation of a bad outcome as it relates to COVID-19 infection.   [00:53:06] Ashley James: In the grocery stores I like to go to, there’s a few of them. I like to go to one’s a local co-op here that has all organic, and then there’s another one at Whole Foods. There are different grocery stores I go to, and I kind of do my little circuit to get different things from different ones depending on what I’m out of. I noticed that at all the grocery stores in my area, everyone I’ve gone to, the baking section is empty. It’s completely emptied out. In my local Facebook groups, people are saying, “Who bought all the baker’s yeast? I’m trying to make this.” I’m seeing on Facebook all my local friends are baking like crazy. They’re all of a sudden baking and eating muffins and cakes. It was just on and on and on and they’re also drinking a lot of alcohol. I don’t know if you noticed that, but on Facebook, everyone’s celebrating at home with their alcohol. I’m thinking to myself. “You are worried about getting an infection—getting the virus—and you’re consuming exactly what your body needs to have the worst outcome in case you did get it.” Alcohol, and sugar, and flour are the worst things we could be consuming right now.   [00:54:24] Dr. David Perlmutter: There are two reasons for this. First is obviously pragmatic thought that these are non-perishable, so that’s why people buy flour and non-perishables, and then end up baking and doing all the things with them. I think more to your point, these are so-called comfort foods. During times of stress, people tend to gravitate toward—it’s why they’re called comfort foods. Because you’re satisfying your amygdala-based behavior, you’re releasing dopamine, and you’re satisfying the craving in the short run. This is the time where you need to double down on all the right recommendations as it relates to the foods that you’re consuming and your other lifestyle choices because you desperately need a good functioning immune system, a balanced immune system that can rein in inflammation, for example, that can be so devastating with this infection. Now is the time when all of those lifestyle issues that we’ve all been talking about for such a long time need to be implemented to the highest degree possible. It’s not like we’re cashing in our chips right now. If you do, you’re going to gain weight, you’re not going to sleep as well, your immune system is going to become dysregulated, and as such, you’re going to increase your chances for a bad outcome should you be infected by this virus. That said, it’s been predicted that’s somewhere between 60%-80% of people globally are going to catch this virus at some point.   [00:56:08] Ashley James: Right now, right now, your book is so relevant. Brain Wash is so relevant. In fact, all your books are so relevant because you’re teaching us how to support the body’s ability to mount a healthy defense, and to also, if and when we do have the infection, we could be one of the people that are asymptomatic. That the body is so healthy it moves through the infection, fights it, and mounts a response, and we don’t have to be hospitalized. Those who weakened their body by not getting enough for sort of sleep, by eating a diet that causes inflammation, that tears down the body instead of builds it up, by not getting out in nature, not exercising gratitude, or not meditating, not taking the time to actively de-stress. If we don’t do that and instead we stress ourselves out, don’t get enough sleep, inflame our body with a poor diet, and stay in the amygdala response, we are guaranteeing we will have poor outcomes. You’ve really painted this picture. As you’ve been talking about the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala, as they relate to our decision-making, I’m reminded of the old cartoons that I used to watch. The Looney Tunes cartoons where there’d be a little flying devil with a pitchfork—a little red devil on one shoulder—and there would be a little angel with a harp and wings on the other shoulder all dressed in white. They would each try to get the cartoon character to do something good, or do something about it. It’s almost like spiritual warfare at this point. We have to think about every decision we make we are either giving in to that devil on our shoulder, that amygdala that wants the instant gratification, that wants us to fail and be sick in the future, or we’re taking a step back, we’re reflecting, we’re taking sides with the angel on our shoulder, and we’re building a better stronger body for our future. We can, even though we might not be getting the instant gratification of the instant dopamine by eating that doughnut and staying up late bingeing on Netflix right now, the dopamine we could achieve through meditation, and gratitude, and nature, and starting to enjoy nurturing our body with delicious nutritious whole foods and also having really restorative straight sleep, that gives us dopamine too. But it’s not this roller coaster of highs and lows. It’s this constant even keel joy that we could fill our life with if we followed the prefrontal cortex path instead of the amygdala path. So I love this picture you’re painting. I would rather have this nice smooth ride down the river of joy of prefrontal cortex rather than the highs and lows of the very short-lived life of the amygdala because we will shorten our life if we do follow the amygdala. Your painting this picture very well, and that you’re giving us the tools that we can take home with us, and we can implement. We start with one thing so that we can build our strength. Talking a bit more about diet because I’ve come up against this resistance with people when it comes to going gluten-free or grain-free when cutting out barley, wheat, rye, and oats for example. Many people I’ve talked to say, “Well, I was tested and I don’t need to avoid those grains because I am not allergic to them.” Other people say, “Well, I went gluten-free for a month and I didn’t notice anything, so I’m not allergic to it. I don’t have to do it.” What would you say to those people who don’t believe, or they think either those grains are healthy for them, or they don’t believe that they’re excluded. That only a certain percentage, only celiac people need to avoid it, they don’t, and you see that everyone needs to avoid it for better health.   [01:00:15] Dr. David Perlmutter: It’s a good point. The actual risk of so-called wheat allergy as an allergic reaction is pretty low. Certainly, celiac disease is extremely infrequent in our population, though there are some genetic determinants. Ultimately a small bowel biopsy is done to confirm that diagnosis, but it’s somewhere south of 3%-4% of the population, that’s for sure. Celiac disease is not what we are talking about. Wheat allergy is not what we were talking about. We’re talking about some fundamental events that occur when we consume alpha-gliadin—a protein found in wheat, barley, and rye—it’s a component of gluten. How that leads to an increase in gut permeability or leakiness, and this may occur in all people. Who has what is called non-celiac gluten sensitivity? Don’t know the answer to that in terms of percentages, but it’s perhaps 30%-50% of the population. Meaning that there are observable manifestations, symptoms that are generated when this group of individuals ends up consuming a product that contains gluten. That said, I think the best recommendation is that we go off of these products. There’s nothing wonderfully salubrious about the gluten-free aisle in the gluten in the grocery store. That is where you’ll find highly-processed, ultra-processed carbs, highly-refined grains of other sorts that will spike the blood sugar that will wreak havoc with the gut. What we want to do is really start to re-emphasize what humans have eaten for almost our entire existence, and that is vegetables. If you choose to be someone who consumes animal products, untainted animal products if that is, again, your choice. It’s not just the gluten part of the story though, it’s the refinement of the carbohydrates, the effect that has on blood sugar, how that amplifies inflammation, how that degrades our effectiveness in terms of our immune response, how it leads to things like insulin resistance and other aspects of metabolic syndrome. It’s a much bigger picture. As we go through that from Grain Brain to the microbiome in Brain Maker and now to Brain Wash, how then this affects the wiring of our brains, and our decision-making, and how that takes us to the current time of what will our response be to infection, which is likely going to happen to most of us—if not all of us—with this COVID-19 based upon the dietary choices that we thought were important over the years. It’s really very interesting that in a sense, this COVID-19 is selecting out individuals for the worst response based upon more amygdala-based decision making as it relates to lifestyle choices.  Our world is conspiring to lock us into our amygdala based upon the foods that we are eating, the fact that we think we need to stay up late at night to accomplish various things, the negative aggressive fear invoking nature of our social media experiences and news exposure. The world is a fearful place and this becomes a way of stoking the fires of our amygdala, which makes us make more choices that are not going to be in our favor. Our mission this time around in writing Brain Wash is to give the tools to decouple this, to get us away from amygdala-based decision making and re-establish connection to the prefrontal cortex to offset what we described in the book as disconnection syndrome. It’s fascinating for Austin and me to observe that Brain Wash has now been picked up by 18 country, 18 languages around the world. It was just published here in America because I think people are getting this message that at the cornerstone of what’s going on here is our decision-making. Because it’s our decision-making that leads to these chronic degenerative conditions that leads to bad outcome.  That’s how we’re reading into why do 18 languages, why does Brain Wash coming out of 18 languages around the world? Because people finally get the fact that decision making is really important today more so probably than ever before in the history of humankind.   [01:05:26] Ashley James: That there’s a direct link between diet and how we function in life. Because I think a lot of people walk around, going through the drive-thru not seeing that there is a connection. There’s a big disconnect between what we put in our mouth and everything else in our life. That it could actually not only affect our health—our physical health—but it could affect how you do your taxes. It could affect how you treat your spouse. It can affect your behavior.   [01:05:53] Dr. David Perlmutter: Disconnection syndrome. We were very surprised early on in January this year, when Brain Wash came out, that it became such a big seller in England in the financial community. We did not predict that. We did not see that coming, but decision-making in terms of investments either is impulsive buy and sell because, “Oh, I feel this is going to be a good thing. I’m going to make money,” or take a deep breath, what’s going to work here by looking at data, and let’s be an investor for the long-term. That’s a prefrontal cortex. So we didn’t see that coming. It was really quite an interesting surprise.   [01:06:36] Ashley James: That’s so cool because you’re reaching people who’ve never really thought about enhancing their diet or their lifestyle, enhancing their health for their decision-making for their brain. So you’re reaching people who don’t normally look into the health space, which is really neat. Now, when you are researching to write this book, as you were writing it with your son, what changed in your life? How did this book change you?   [01:07:02] Dr. David Perlmutter: Yet another great question. I think it did a number of things to me in a very positive way. It certainly helped to reconnect me even at a deeper level to my co-author, who happens to be our son, so that was an interesting thing that happened. In fact, we just was with him this morning and his girlfriend. They’ve done everything right. They quarantined 14 days, and then came to visit, which was totally acceptable.  It also really transcended for me though the level of our messaging. Writing a book like Grain Brain saying, “Eat this, don’t eat that. It’ll be good for you.” Other books that I’ve written, other books that my colleagues have written about various diets and their lifestyle choices that we were working on something that was at a higher order. Whereby, “Yeah, it’s great to read all these terrific books, and watch these programs, and attend these summits, and learn all this information, but guess what, all the books are useless to you if you don’t implement what they’re talking about.” We realized that we were dealing with a higher order overriding plan that could help people engage in whatever goal they wanted to achieve. Be it weight-loss, be it better health, be it being more financially sound, and having talked about that recently. It was a bit transcendent, and beyond that, it certainly helped me reaffirm why I do what I do in terms of day-to-day lifestyle choices, and really double down on so many of the things that I think are important. Double down on the value of meditation, of exercise, of eating low carb, of intermittent fasting. All the things that we think are very important. Now, with the recognition that this is affecting my brain wiring, not just helping me have a better insulin response. I think that was very enlightening.   [01:09:18] Ashley James: I love it. I love that you got even closer to your son who also chose to be an MD. Did he choose to become an MD because of you?   [01:09:27] Dr. David Perlmutter: Who knows? Did I choose to become an MD because of my father? I don’t know, but it’s given us so much common ground. We relate on so many other levels as well in the things we like to do together. We got to go fishing recently, which was quite wonderful. We’ve always enjoyed that. We looked at each other a couple years ago in a conversation and said, “You know, it’s the decision-making where our efforts are breaking down. It’s not that we don’t know a lot of stuff, and it’s not that we don’t teach a lot of stuff, it’s the patients and their decision making. That’s what we need to write a book about.” That began our research, and that was the manifestation of Brain Wash.   [01:10:10] Ashley James: I love it. I’m a trainer and Master Practitioner trainer of neuro-linguistic programming (NLP). NLP is all about how what in our brain is affecting our results in life, and decision-making is at the root of it. I love that you’re laying this out with all the science. It’s brilliant. Because our mood, even just your mood, if you’re sitting there and you’re feeling down, people think that they’re a victim of their mood. If you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, “Oh, well the whole day is ruined.”  You’re in a mood because our mood directly affects how we’re going to behave. Whether I’m going to go do the dishes, or whether I’m just going to sit in front of the TV. If I’m going to go for that walk and make something healthy to eat, or if I’m just going to order takeout. We become victims of our mood. If we’re in a mood, we’re probably in the amygdala. There’s a way, like in NLP, we learn how to immediately change our mood. You are laying out these steps. If you someone were to go meditate, do a gratitude journal, walk around the block, get some exercise out in nature. Make sure you’re resting, go take a nap, but there are so many things we can do, what we call in NLP, a break state, and we can choose to activate a different mood. We can get out of a bad mood. From a mood where we’re excited, and joy, and happiness, then we’re able to more easily connect with the prefrontal cortex, we’re able to more easily make adult-based decisions, and then our results in life come from that. Catching ourselves when we’re in a bad mood and going, “Okay, I’m not a victim of this mood. I’m not going to let this mood control me. I’m not going to let the amygdala, which is like this four-year-old terrorist in my brain, try to control me. I am going to switch over, and I’m going to do something right now. One thing I can do, one thing. What can I do right now to switch over from this bad mood into the prefrontal cortex? Picking one thing from your book Brain Wash. I love it. What do you eat? You sort of alluded to eating a whole food plant-based diet, and then you said, “If you want to eat animal products, then make sure they’re clean.” Are you whole food plant-based? How do you eat? What’s on your plate every day?   [01:12:33] Dr. David Perlmutter: Let me go back to Brain Wash for just a moment. We wanted to be as inclusive as possible as it relates to food. What we called for in Brain Wash was OMD, One Meal a Day, being entirely plant-based. Fully recognizing that in and of itself, that was a lot to ask. But for environmental considerations and health considerations, just to get people more into the mindset of the idea of plant-based. I think it’s ultimately better for people to engage in a more plant-based diet. Understand I said more, I didn’t say complete. I know plenty of people engage a fully plant-based diet, but not everyone does that, and I want to be as inclusive as possible. I am on a mostly plant-based diet. I do consume eggs, pretty much every day, and we eat a lot of wild fish. I allow those things. I think they’re good for us. I mean, for my family based upon how we respond and based upon our genetic profiles, as we’ve seen. We try to put out in Brain Wash the most inclusive but good recommendations that we could.   [01:13:57] Ashley James: Based on science, based on results. You’re seeing that more whole plants, more vegetables. What about legumes? Grains, you talk about not eating grains, but what about whole grains? What about legumes? What about potatoes or sweet potatoes?   [01:14:15] Dr. David Perlmutter: The grains that we objected to are the ones you had mentioned early on: wheat, oats, and barley, and rye as well, of course, but oats are on the on the list where they can go either way. It really depends on where they are milled. If they’re milled in a gluten containing factory, then I wouldn’t include them. But not processed oats I think can be eaten along with other grains, which by definition are seeds of grass, so that would include some wild rice. Other things like amaranth and quinoa. We’re not necessarily talking about by definition grain, but I think there’s a place for these as part of a whole food kind of diet.  Here you are talking to the Grain Brain author, and I’m saying that plates should be mostly colorful above ground vegetables. Frankly, I’ve been saying that since day one. When Grain Brain came out so many years ago, “So this is this Atkins all over again. Dr. Perlmutter wants to eat bacon, and short ribs, and that’s all we’re going to eat.” Anything but. I think a diet, my personal opinion, is that a diet that’s based on mostly meat—a so-called carnivorous diet—that’s getting some attention these days, my feeling is—and I’m entitled to that—that’s not necessarily going to be a healthful diet for most people. Might there be somebody, who based upon his or her genetic polymorphism, that might be a good diet for? I guess so, but I think having spent so much time involved in understanding the role of our gut bacteria in terms of our health and disease resistance, to create a diet that is most appropriate for our gut bacteria is important. That means a diet that’s high in dietary fiber, which nurtures our gut microbes, our gut bacteria.  There is no fiber in any animal product whatsoever—zero. So a diet that’s focused just on animal products isn’t going to give your gut bacteria what they need, and therefore, I think that one should be concerned about a purely carnivorous diet. I think for me, legumes are acceptable if they are cooked. I eat legumes. We do eat a lot of dal, which is lentils. We’ve been doing that for many, many years after I studied Ayurvedic medicine. I think it’s a very calming dietary approach. Coupled with a carbohydrate can be a good source of protein. I don’t necessarily spend a lot of time worrying about lectins per se, but that said, our legumes are cooked.   [01:17:26] Ashley James: Awesome. Very cool. You mentioned that some oats, like gluten-free oats, could be okay. What about gliadin in oats, which is a protein similar to gluten? I’ve heard that could be the reason why we should avoid oats.   [01:17:42] Dr. David Perlmutter: I don’t think that it’s a big issue to worry about in oats. We don’t really use much oats, but my wife does make oat milk and almond milk that we use in coffee. I just think from all that I’ve looked at in terms of oats that are certified gluten-free, I don’t see that as a problem.   [01:18:08] Ashley James: Very good. I love that you say, “Fill your plate with a variety of colorful vegetables that grow above ground,” and then you can have the other things too, but make sure the majority of that plate is filled with a variety of colorful fruit vegetables. What you talked about genetic testing with yourself with some others, polymorphisms was mentioned, how important is it for us as individuals to get genetically tested, to speak with a functional medicine doctor? Is that something we should do? Is it really important to know, or if we ate the way you’ve outlined in your book, we should be good?   [01:18:50] Dr. David Perlmutter: I think in an ideal world it would be very, very helpful for each of us to know what our genetics are, what are the polymorphisms that we carry. I think it’s exceedingly valuable to know this information that what we might be at risk for, and more importantly, how we can offset that risk based upon this knowledge by making certain more aggressive lifestyle changes and interventions, changes in our diets, our supplement regimen, etc. based upon our uniqueness. This is the cornerstone of personalized medicine. I think understanding our genome, and perhaps even our microbiome, are extremely valuable.  I have done several of these studies, and have had my genetics interpreted by several algorithms, and have learned quite a bit about myself that I would never have known about risk for certain things, and about changes that I can make, whether it’s using a methylated b-vitamin or higher levels of vitamin D because I have polymorphisms for vitamin D receptors. My risk for inflammation. A higher risk for melanoma, for example, therefore going to the dermatologist with more regularity. All kinds of things good to know because knowledge is power. As it relates to knowing your genetics and your risks, this is exceedingly empowering.  I know that it is a bit elitist, especially in these times, to be having this conversation because clearly, people are not going to go out and get these tests as readily. But for the most part, these are things that may be able to be sent in the mail from a practitioner to a patient, and then forward it on to a laboratory, and then allow a virtual interaction with the treating physician to go through what it means. Therefore give a patient an individual some very valuable information.   [01:20:51] Ashley James: Right. Also, there’s going to come a time where we’re all integrated back into society, and the virus isn’t an issue anymore. We can just keep this information in our pocket for when it is easier to get this testing. I like that you have thought of a way that we could do it now. There is a way we could mail it in. There is a way we could have a virtual conversation. How does your son Austin or yourself see clients or patients? How would we go about finding the right practitioner to have this genetic testing done?  I’d like to see a holistic approach, so the practitioner doesn’t go, “Oh, well you need to get extra mammograms because you might get breast cancer more because of your genetics.” Not that standpoint, but the, “Oh, because of your genetics, you definitely want to eat even more antioxidants. Or here’s the things you could do to prevent disease so that we cannot have the epigenetic changes occur by having a bad diet, for example.” So a holistic doctor that looks at the functional medicine to support the person and their lifestyle choices, which is what your book teaches us. Is there a website where we can search for a practitioner?   [01:22:22] Dr. David Perlmutter: Sure. I would say first, though, you do want to have a practitioner who might consider mainstream interventions be it CAT scans, MRI, or mammography for example. You want to have access to good technology at the same time that you have access to this good nutritional information, lifestyle modification, supplementation, etc. I think a great place to start would be ifm.org. That’s the Institute for Functional Medicine. You can search that by zip code, by area, and determine who’s practicing in your vicinity, and then interview or at least visit their website. Determine if they do in fact employ genetic testing, if that’s where your interest lies.   [01:23:16] Ashley James: Yes. To clarify, I didn’t mean never have the mainstream medical approach, that kind of prevention where they’re screening for things, but unfortunately, I know some people who got genetic testing and their doctor said, “Well, we need to do a double mastectomy and remove your uterus. Do a whole hysterectomy to prevent cancer.” She was in her early 30s and this is their approach. They see, “Oh, your genetics show that you may be more at risk, so we’re going to remove all these parts of your body.” Rather than, “We’re going to screen you more, we’re going to get you on a really healthy lifestyle to help you prevent it.” Unfortunately, some doctors are taking the approach of screening and going in not in a holistic direction where they’re helping their patient create a whole lifestyle of health.  Of course, if someone went to IFM, they’d be finding a functional medicine practitioner or functional medicine doctor that looks at the body as a whole, which is what we want.   [01:24:29] Dr. David Perlmutter: That’s right. I would say that it would be very unlikely that a mainstream doctor would really be in a position to even offer up this type of genetic testing much less for counseling. Certainly, as it might relate to I think what you were inferring there the BRCA2 gene, for example, that might lead to hysterectomy, oophorectomy, and mastectomy. That is something that might be prompted by that type of physician who took care of this individual sister, or mother, or who knows what, but I think by and large by its nature, that physicians who are using genetic widespread screening and interpretation are generally more integrative/functional.   [1:25:24] Ashley James: Excellent. I do have one final question about grains because I think that this is one you’ve been asked a lot, and you have such a great answer. There are grains in the Bible. We’ve been eating grains for thousands of years. Why now go grain-free? Haven’t we always eaten grains?   [01:25:41] Dr. David Perlmutter: Give us this day our daily bread. I would ask you, when was the Bible written? When was it written? I don’t know. I mean it was written about 2,000 years ago, right? That probably represents less than one-quarter of 1% of our time on this planet when we weren’t eating daily bread. Our genome undergoes changes that are significant. It takes about 70,000 years for a significant genomic change to impart itself, and our genome is refined by our environment by environmental pressures like the foods to which we have access over time.  This just happened. Let’s go even 14,000 years ago when agriculture was developed. This happened in the blink of an eye, just happened. We’ve not had time to genetically adapt. So, that’s the explanation. We haven’t always had bread. We haven’t always had grains. We have almost always had none of this.   [01:26:54] Ashley James: I love it. I love how you just simply put, our genetics are not designed to, our bodies not designed to eat this way because we’ve just started eating this way. When we look at the history of our genetics, we just started eating this new way. Especially when you look at what you eat when you go through the drive-thru. All these refined oils and, all the refined sugars, and everything our body just doesn’t even know what to do with. Then we end up with a huge amount of our population obese, fatty liver disease, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease. All diseases of living in the amygdala.   [01:27:41] Dr. David Perlmutter: Living in the amygdala, and all diseases that set a person up for a bad outcome these days as it relates to this pervasive infection.   [01:27:51] Ashley James: Well, I think your book would be such a great gift now that most people are at home. We could jump on Amazon and gift your book. We could send it to our friends and our family members who could benefit from reading it. Right now, we have lots of time. We can turn off Netflix, and listen, or read. Your book’s an audio book, they could listen to it because I know my listeners like to listen to things, or they could get the Kindle edition and read it right now, or they could get the hardcover and get it shipped to them, or they could ship it, or gift it to their friends and family.  This is the perfect time when our routine has been disrupted. I think you mentioned that. This is the perfect time to read your book, and implement these changes, and create a new routine, so when we’re able to integrate back into society, and start living life again, we’re not going back to the old way. We are adapting, and we’re elevating, and we’re evolving, and we’re going to create an even better way to live. I’d love that your book would help us to do that. Of course, the links to everything that Dr. Perlmutter does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com.  You are so kindly gifting one of our listeners your book. We’re going to have a contest. It’s going to be in a Learn True Health Facebook group. All the listeners now can go in and comment under that post, and one lucky listener is going to be chosen to win your book. I’m very excited about that, but I think all of us should go and gift your book, start listening to it, or start reading it, and start implementing these changes. Whoever ends up winning it and if you’ve already bought the book, you could gift that physical copy to someone in your life. I’d love for you to leave us with some homework. Is there something that you’d like to tell us to go do today?   [01:29:52] Dr. David Perlmutter: Yes, I would. I’d like your listeners, if they feel so inclined, to over the next one week to everyday write down five things for which they are grateful, and just do it for one week.    [01:30:10] Ashley James: Beautiful. You know what, that’s going to be the part of the giveaway. That’s going to be in the Facebook group. Everyone’s going to write down what they’re grateful for, and then one person will be chosen at random. Sometimes I get my five-year-old son to come in and just point at someone in the comments and that person wins it.   [01:30:32] Dr. David Perlmutter: There you go. That’s pretty random.    [01:30:34] Ashley James: Yeah. He likes it. The last person that won something, because I like to do giveaways in the Learn True Health Facebook group, they were very happy that they were chosen by my son. So it’ll be a lot of fun. Awesome. It has been such a pleasure having you here today.   [01:30:50] Dr. David Perlmutter: Oh, it’s been a wonderful pleasure for me. Thank you so very much for having me today.    [01:30:54] Ashley James: Absolutely, please come back on the show anytime you want to come, and teach, and impart your information. We’d love to have you back.   [01:31:01] Dr. David Perlmutter: I’m delighted. Thanks again.   Get Connected with Dr. David Perlmutter! Website Facebook Twitter YouTube Instagram Books by Dr. David Perlmutter Brainwash Grain Brain Brain Maker Song: Osheen & JayJen - Flying (Vlog No Copyright Music) Music provided by Vlog No Copyright Music. Video Link: https://youtu.be/DElsMp9Mp2M

Watch this video of Dan's 6 year old doing Algebra and see his homeschooling programs: EinsteinBlueprint.com/lth Listen to my first interview with Dan: https://www.learntruehealth.com/homeschool   Daniel Louzonis and Ashley James https://www.learntruehealth.com/homeschooling-crisis-schooling-and-distance-learning-amid-covid-19   Highlights: Zoochosis and the school system Eat math for breakfast What to do with a defiant child Importance of cursive handwriting Importance of math, reading, and writing All education is self-education Einstein Blueprint   More parents are now turning to homeschooling because of the new vaccination policy in the US. Recently, parents have also been forced to do some form of homeschooling because of the coronavirus. There are many approaches to homeschooling, which one should we follow? Should we be letting our kids learn from computers and cellphones? Daniel Louzonis is back on the show with us, and he gives us some tips on how to homeschool successfully.   [00:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 425. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show, Daniel Louzonis. Daniel was in episode 258. That was a really impactful interview. After I did that interview, I went and listened to it three times because I listened to it with my husband, I listened to it with my mother-in-law, and then I can’t remember who else I listened to it with, but I listened to it with other people. We would pause it, and have a discussion about it, and then play it again. It’s one of those interviews that really sticks in my mind because I have a child, because I’ve thought about the impact of homeschooling versus having my child be in a school system, in a schoolhouse with 30 children and 1 teacher. I’ve been thinking about that for a long time. Interviewing you was really eye-opening. Then I heard from other listeners that it was also very eye-opening. When the COVID-19 thing started to happen, they shut down the schools in my state—in the state of Washington. Now, it’s basically summertime. They started summertime in March, and the children will not go back to school until September. Because I’m friends with a teacher that teaches public school, the teachers are worried that they’re not even going to be able to go back to school in September. That this is going to keep going. There’s mass panic with parents because they’re sitting at home with their kids and doing distance learning. Crisis schooling is what I’ve heard this new term being thrown around. Many parents are now turning to homeschooling. All the homeschooling Facebook groups I’m in are flooded now with new parents wondering what curriculum should they follow, should they join an online school, should they just let their kids have a summer. So many questions are being thrown around. You are an expert in homeschooling. I definitely recommend listeners to check out episode 258 with Daniel to get his amazing, amazing story. I want to jump right in. First of all, I definitely want to hear what you’ve been up to since I had you on the show because I know that you’ve been up to a lot. I also really want to speak to the parents that are going through this crisis right now. Many of these children, their school year ended abruptly, and they’re at home. The parents have to figure out how to do some form of education with their children because of COVID-19. There are other reasons why people are choosing to go to homeschooling. Some parents didn’t choose to, it was thrust upon them. Some parents have chosen to go to homeschooling in the last year because of vaccine laws, for example. There has been a very large shift, a very large movement towards homeschooling especially in this digital age it becomes easier. Daniel, welcome back to the show. I can’t wait for this very enlightening discussion. I hope that we’re able to empower those parents who feel that they’re in a crisis right now.   [00:03:47] Daniel Louzonis: It’s great to be here. We’ve been talking, you and, I have been talking back and forth about when I was going to come on next. We have a crisis reappearance. The urgency came. Everybody is now a homeschooler. Everyone now is a remote learner, and a distance learner, and a homeschooling parent. You put that in the context of all the other things going on. Transitioning to homeschooling is difficult. Oftentimes, the kids are reluctant. The spouse may not be supportive, grandparents, in-laws do what in-laws do and they’re just always unsupportive. In peaceful times, it’s difficult for most people to transition, and now you have the economic, and financial stress, and the fear that people have of—at least where I live—basically everyone. Everyone that walks within 6, 7, 8, 10 feet of you. By the way, now you have to figure out how to educate your kids. Yeah, crisis is the word they are using. Nobody wants to hear the positive spin on it, but I will say, right off the bat, that this is not homeschooling. Homeschooling, you can actually go to the park. You can actually go to the museum. You can actually travel. We were trying to go to Florida a few weeks ago, and we weren’t going to go because the beach was closed, and the hotel pool was closed. I hope your audience doesn’t do what some people are doing is conflating what’s going on now with actual homeschooling. I’ve heard people say, “Well, I could never homeschool because my kids are crazy at home,” this, and that, and all these other reasons, all these other complicated reasons. This is not homeschooling. This is not even living as far as I’m concerned.   [00:05:37] Ashley James: This is captivity. We’re getting a taste of what the animals at the zoo feel like.   [00:05:43] Daniel Louzonis: Zoochosis, is that what they call it? Are you familiar with that?   [00:05:49] Ashley James: No.   [00:05:51] Daniel Louzonis: Zoochosis is something that anybody listening should go google and just get the dictionary—standard dictionary definition of it—and maybe even click on a couple of links. All these animals in the zoo, it’s well known that they’re miserable. What do animals taken out of their natural habitat—any animals—do when they are miserable? They mutilate themselves. They get depressed. All these zoo animals, this is a well-established fact, these zoo animals are getting injected with Prozac and the like all over the world because they need to sedate them. They have trouble getting them to mate. Zoochosis, when I first read about this I said, “OMG. This is school. These kids don’t want to sit still in school. They’re medicating them just to pound that square peg into a round hole. It’s an unnatural environment. It’s not natural to have kids wearing shoes all day when they’re five and six, and sitting all day, and being indoors. This is not natural. What you see in school is just a human form of zoochosis.” It’s definitely worth checking out looking into.   [00:07:03] Ashley James: Very interesting. I’m from Canada, we call it cabin fever. Cabin fever is serious. If you’re snowed in for a few weeks, man, you want to tear the paper off the walls. You need to get out. We’re meant to be out there, and children are definitely meant to be out. I can’t remember what country did this, but they were able to cut ADD rates and ADHD. They were able to cut it so significantly it would blow your mind. They increased recess to two hours a day and ADD went down significantly, that was one. Then there was another study where they increased sleep by—and this is my friend who is a first-grade teacher—increased sleep in children by 30 minutes. Just going to bed 30 minutes earlier, and 60% I believe is what he told me, they were able to cut down the ADD symptoms. It’s like sleep and exercise people. We’re making children sit in a room all day. They’ve cut down recess in a lot of schools. They get to medicate the children because the children are going crazy because they’re stuck indoors, they get zoochosis.   [00:08:30] Daniel Louzonis: We’ve already got huge overlaps here with everything. The other study talks about—and there’s an actual movement afoot to get schools to have later start times. It’s a little bit of fool’s gold. They’re finding that if they have the high schoolers start later, because basically, in school districts, the high school kids are expected to go to school early because they can get earlier. Then the buses, they want to use the same buses for the middle school and the elementary school. They don’t all start at 9:00 AM. They don’t all start at 8:30 AM. It’s a staggered start. They’re finding that once they delayed the start of school, that not only in these schools has academic performance gone up, but school suspensions have gone down. That’s just one study, and I don’t think it’s actually tenable because anyone who has teenagers know, they sleep in later they’ll stay up later. They’ll just spend more time, they’ll have more energy at midnight to be on social media. With ADHD, homeschoolers, I’ve known this for over a decade. I can’t tell you how many parents I’ve heard this say, “My kid needed the ADHD medicine when they were in school. Once I pulled them out, they didn’t need it.” The other thing about fidgety kids in school outside of their natural environment, they’re finding standing desks are going a long way towards behavioral control, focus, and all that. You can google the guy in California, Kelly Starrett. He’s got a whole movement about trying to get schools to have more standup desks. They’re also finding that if you say a seven-year-old kid is anxious, if they let him lay on the floor in his stomach, that he’s totally fine. If they force him to sit in a chair, his behavior is off the wall. One of the reasons I’ve heard bandied about is it’s something about core strength. These kids, they can’t sit or whatever. There’s a huge overlap between physical health and academic performance. Physical health and what goes on in the brain. It’s so underappreciated. If you asked Richard Branson, the billionaire, why he’s so successful, he says, “Because I workout.” He said, “Because I workout, I have an extra hour a day of energy, and leverage, and all that.” Every single one of these high-performance experts is hacking their body to almost an extreme extent. You touched on already, they have removed recesses from school. When I was a kid, we had three recess in school. Before you know it, it was down to two, then it was down to one. Now, I hear some schools don’t have any recess whatsoever. Even beyond recess, kids used to walk to school. There is research that shows that kids who walk to school have better grades. Wow. Oxygen flowing to the brain. A little bit of movement. It doesn’t matter whether they’re rich or poor, walking to school is highly correlated with academic performance. Not to say that academic performance is going to set you up for life. I can tell you firsthand that having an Ivy League degree, it doesn’t guarantee you anything in this world. There’ll be so many cans of worms opened up here, so many Pandora’s boxes that we’re going to be on air for about 24 hours straight if we don’t focus ourselves.   [00:11:58] Ashley James: Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do a marathon, so a 24-hour marathon about homeschooling. I think we could do it. I’m just remembering all the grades where I walked to school or biked to school. I was about a half an hour for me to get to junior high, for me to get from grade 5 and up was about a half an hour I’m thinking. Then I was about a 15-minute walk for me to get to grades 1 and 2. Then high school was only about a seven-minute walk, but for me, those walks to school woke me up. I remember the walks home helped me destress, especially the long ones. Even though I’m like, “Oh man, I wish I’d be home right now.” I would either ride my bike, or rollerblade, or walk, depending on the weather. It really helped me. It was just the solitude, it would help me to decompress from my day because I had a lot of social anxiety, and I was bullied, and it would help me just to work it out. By the time I got home, I felt refreshed, I felt emotionally recharged. That time, to be able to just move your body really helped me. Then in college, I drove to college. I remember just feeling sleepy the whole morning because I just wake-up, get in my car, and go. I miss that. I miss that—moving my body in the morning, having to walk there. Yeah, that does make a lot of sense.   [00:13:35] Daniel Louzonis: Cars are killers. If you think about it, and I’ve heard people say this, television passive video consumption in the car. Those two innovations—if we can call them innovations—what they’ve done to the human body is pretty bad. You could almost get rid of all that stuff. If you turn off the TV, or throw it out, and don’t get in a car—I moved to London five years ago, six years ago and I was already pretty thin. I lost 26 pounds because I didn’t have a car. I wasn’t sitting at 90 degrees with my stomach disengaged for two to two-and-a-half hours a day. People used to be really thin. They used to walk everywhere. They used to walk to school uphill in the snow both ways. They used to walk. Nowadays, the kids are getting chauffeured to school—door-to-door. The bus used to drop kids off at bus stops where kids would walk to a quarter of a mile whatever. The buses started picking up kids right on their doorstep, especially in wealthier areas like where I live in New York area. There are reasons for it. People think it’s safer, it’s less of a liability, but these kids are going from a bed, to a chair for breakfast, to 90 degrees sitting on a bus, to sitting in a desk all day long. They’re never ever getting that chance to decompress in nature, never getting a chance to exercise their body and be in nature at all. It could be for a month or two. It might be by accident.   [00:15:13] Ashley James: It’s such a shame. You, over the years, have become an expert in teaching parents how to homeschool in a way that best supports their child in their education. I don’t want to get too much into your bio because I want listeners to go back and listen to episode 258, but your experience with your two children’s wonderful. You’ve been coaching for a long time. Even parents who say, “I don’t know if I can do it. My child is too hyper. My child is this, or my child is that.” There’s a way to shape homeschooling for each individual child, but before we get into talking about this crisis and what we can do now, I’d like to just catch up. What has happened, what has transpired since we had you on the show in episode 258?   [00:16:12] Daniel Louzonis: I was trying to figure out what date that was, but I will say that—   [00:16:17] Ashley James: It was about two years ago.   [00:16:19] Daniel Louzonis: The last two and a half years, we’ve lived in Manhattan. Two and a half years ago or two and three-quarters years ago, we’re living in a 3500 square foot home in suburban Long Island. I knew there was something missing. It was suburban life, it was driving all day to homeschooling activities, and driving around to the community activities, the soccer, the dance, the karate, and I was going nuts. My kids were about 10 and 11, or 11 and 12 years old. They were at that stage where they needed some autonomy. I did this radical thing. There were other reasons too, health reasons.  My wife was commuting to Manhattan. She was getting up at 4:15 AM to go to CrossFit for 5:00 AM, to get on a train at 6:50 AM, to go into Manhattan—an hour commute there, just about. Then coming back late at night. I just knew that that wasn’t good for her body, it wasn’t good for our relationship, anything. There were about five reasons that were all pointing towards me selling this big house. Another reason was I believe the stock market was going to crash. The real estate market was going to crash. It was an aggressive financial bet. I sold the house for an insane amount of money, and we moved three minutes away from my wife’s office, right next to the World Trade Center. Her commute went to three minutes—two elevators. If it rains, she just doesn’t even grab an umbrella. She’s a risk-taker. She thinks she can duck under and make it as she did this morning. My kids, like I said, they were like 10 and 11, 11 and 12. I wanted them to be able to walk places. We moved into Manhattan next to the World Trade Center, a place that 10 years ago, I never would have thought I’d moved next to the World Trade Center especially seeing how my wife was downtown when the towers fell. Things change. Your mindset changes, and your approach toward certain types of risk changes, but my kids could walk to playgrounds. They could walk to Barnes & Noble. They could walk to the deli and buy something that they shouldn’t be eating. Soccer practice is 9/10th of a mile away right up the Hudson River. At 11 years old she was riding her scooter up the river with a bunch of her teammates, every single day, four days a week. I said, “Try to put a value on me not having to drive my daughter to soccer.” I was literally talking about health. I was literally ready to blow my brains out at all the driving and the chauffeuring that I had to do. I killed so many birds. I killed a whole flock of birds with this one move, and it was the best thing that I did. Of course, we’re living in an expensive tiny apartment, it has its own challenges. But even in New York City, I wanted my kids to work. I could already see that there was more work in New York than there is in the suburbs. There’s this expression, if you can make it in New York you can make it anywhere. I actually disagree with that. I actually think it’s easier to make it in New York. If you want to work nine days a week, 30 hours a day in New York, you can do it. A one-bedroom apartment, here in my building, a one-bedroom is $4000 a month. You could even pay $5000, but that’s a one-bedroom. The reality is, you could walk dogs just in this building and more than pay your rent. Even though the cost to be here is high, the opportunity is even bigger. My kids, they’ve been working, let’s see, since we last spoke my son wrote a book titled Kid Trillionaire: How a Little Kid Can Make a Big Fortune. It’s just that. It’s about how kids can make money. What’s the template? What’s the process? What do they have to start doing, stop doing? Who they have to follow? All these things. Terrific, terrific book—Kid Trillionaire. We didn’t put it on Amazon. The only way he was selling it was he was standing on 6th Avenue with a table. I wanted him to stop heads, talk to people, figure out how to deal with whoever would talk to him. He spent many, many hours over the last couple years on the streets of Manhattan selling his book hand-to-hand, and he sold, I believe, over 1200 copies of his book now, not only that, he also got all sorts of media attention. He was instantly on several TV stations, he had a full-page article about him in the New York Post. This is what is possible when you operate with extreme flexibility outside the system. You can literally move where you want to move. How many times have you heard somebody say, “I don’t want to move to disrupt my kids’ social life,” or “We moved into this house because of the school system.” We’ve never been beholden to any limiting beliefs like that. We moved to London for 15 months and our school goes with us. We go to Florida in the winter for a month or five weeks or so. Our school is totally uninterrupted, nothing changes. They have libraries down there. We’ll bring the piano keyboard. We’ll do our math, and our chess, and our reading. We’ll go to the park at 2:000 PM, 3:00 PM when all the other kids are out of school. We go to the beach or whatever. Something I want to point out here, I might have pointed out in the last episode, is that I had two young kids. We go to Florida in the winter from Boston. It takes a massive bite out of the winner. For three years, with two little kids, they didn’t have a sniffle or a cold between them. I attribute that to a couple of things. One, being able to go down in Florida and get out of the stale indoor air of frigid New England. Also, they’re not going to school, which people are seeing more and more now that they—   [00:22:19] Ashley James: Petri dish.   [00:22:21] Daniel Louzonis: They’re a petri dish. They’re germ factories. Somehow, nobody knew that six weeks ago. That’s a little bit of what we’ve been doing. That’s John. Let me just say, Christine, she’s 13 years old now. She’s a little hustling entrepreneur herself. A year ago, she said that she wanted to go with her soccer team to France. There was a summer trip during the Women’s World Cup in the summer. Now, going to Europe in the summer is expensive, World Cup tickets, and they’re going to mark this thing up because that’s what they do. Nobody organizes trips for free. Four thousand dollars, we said, “Sure, if you go make the money you can go.” What do you know, in about a few months, she put ads up on the building forums. “I’ll babysit, I’ll mother’s help. I’ll teach your kids piano.” She made that money within, I would say, four or five months. That was just the start of it. Since then, even though I’m against all the smartphones and stuff, she bought her own for $800 with her own money. My kids now, they are semi-fully launched entrepreneurs. I don’t have life insurance or more than, I don’t know, $50,000 worth. My life insurance, my wife’s life insurance, is that we’re arming our kids, we’re making them future proof, we’re making them socially intelligent, resourceful. At this stage of our homeschooling with teenagers, our focus is strictly on entrepreneurship. They’re not going to go to college. I’m not paying for it. They’d have to pay for it themselves, which I don’t think they would do. What makes my homeschooling philosophy very unique is how aggressive we start out. We started out with up to three-hour math sessions when they’re four years old. That’s what I did with my kids at least. Very aggressive early on, very strict with the screens like no TV, no video games. Then at the end, an aggressive start and also an aggressive end. The end game is where a lot of homeschooling families lose it. They have 18-year-old kids who are well-rounded, and smart, and have hobbies, and this, and that, but they don’t really have any vocational skills. They don’t really have any interest in the economy, and therefore, college becomes like a default choice. They just get sucked in. They’re more well-rounded, they’re more mature or whatever, but they’re still getting sucked into the college system. Look, I went to the University of Pennsylvania. I have an Ivy League education, and I didn’t major in impractical things. It was math and economics. I was trading derivatives and futures right out of college in 1995. I can tell you, they don’t really teach you anything about business even in the top schools.  I’m very pro-parent, very pro-education, I’m very anti-outsourcing it. There are certain things that you can’t outsource that you have to do yourself. Far too many people believe that they can outsource the raising in education of their kids. It would be great if I could punt my kids out the door and they came back mature, and well-rounded, and civilized, but unfortunately, what goes on in the schools has gotten so bad. We can talk about this, the last 10 years, it is escalating.   [00:25:40] Ashley James: It is so bad.   [00:25:41] Daniel Louzonis: It has gotten so much worse. With the iPhone, it has gotten so much worse. On the other hand, with the internet, with podcasts, with the bounty of the Information Age, with the ability to connect with anybody on the planet, with the ability to get chess lessons from a grandmaster in India for $10 an hour. The chasm between going in one direction and in another, going to college, going the traditional route versus going hard on entrepreneurship like Gary Vaynerchuk style. Mark Zuckerberg was a dropout, Michael Dell was a dropout, Steve Jobs was a dropout, Bill Gates was a dropout. People are missing it that the most successful people on this planet cannot attribute their success to education. There’s a whole new breed of people out there. The next Bill Gates, and Zuckerberg, and Michael Dell, they’re not going to be kids who went to college for a year and dropped out. They’re going to be kids who never even went to school in the first grade. I have a good friend and she’s homeschooled her kids for years. Her son applied to MIT and Stanford, got into both, didn’t even think about going to them. The only reason he applied to those schools was because grandma, for years, was saying, “You’re not getting education,” nagging mom and dad. They should be in school. So MIT and Stanford actually applied to him. It wasn’t the other way around. They applied to him and he rejected them. I have stories. Because of what I do, I have stories and anecdotes like this one after another after another after another. Nobody’s really put them all together. It’s always between the cracks. People aren’t seeing it. The kids who are educated outside the school system are dominating basically everything. In terms of chess, for example. Half of the top youth chess players in America are homeschooled—half. You literally can’t compete with the kids who were sitting home all day playing 11 hours a day and using chess engines. Spelling bees have been dominated by homeschooled kids for ages. Writing contests, you name it. The school system is proving to be an assembly-line from a bygone industrial era that is no longer compatible with the goals. It really never was compatible with the highest goals the parents have for their kids. It doesn’t have any chance or it precludes any chance of our kids discovering, no less reaching their full potential. In the last 10 years, there’s a whole new reason to home-school. I’m not even going to get into corona. I won’t even put that one in there or the force vaccination schedule that’s going to come. You can’t control the technology in your kid’s lives when all their friends have smartphones. If you were to go back in time 20 years and say, “Hey, we’re going to give every kid, every 12-year-old boy, a device in their pocket. 24-hour television. 24-hour video game consoles.”   [00:29:00] Ashley James: No way. Absolutely not. We would say, “No way.”   [00:29:03] Daniel Louzonis: It also has a stack of porno magazines that goes to the moon. Go around and try to count how many parents, even if you don’t give your kid a phone, their peers all have it. It has become pretty much the dominant social force. There are 20 reasons to homeschool your kids, whether they’re getting bullied, or whether they’re going to be a tennis prodigy, or whatever. Any one of these 20 reasons to home-school is sufficient all by itself. The new one is now you can’t control the tech in their lives, and therefore, you can’t control a lot of other things. Go ahead.   [00:29:39] Ashley James: Their lives are at stake. When we look at ages, I believe it was, 10-24, this range that suicides went up by 60% in the last 10 years. It’s the second leading cause of death in that generation. Basically, in school-aged children, suicide is the second cause of death. I don’t know what the first one is. That’s ridiculous. Suicide is on the rise so much, and these are children who shocks the parents. They’re able to be constantly bullied. I was bullied as a child, but like I said, those walks home I could decompress. Then when I was home, I was away from the bullying, and I could call my best friend, and I could go escape into a book, or I could turn on the TV, or do my homework, or talk to my parents, and I could go bike riding with my neighbor. I could escape for hours until the next day. Whereas now, children are bullied 24 hours a day because they all have these devices, and it’s nonstop for them. That’s just one reason why the environment of school is completely different than when you and I, because I went to school in the 80s, I’m 40. I’ve talked to some teachers. They said that in the last 10 years, the children are different. One of my friends who’s been a teacher for 20 years, and he has three kids of his own. I’ve talked to other teachers who have been teachers longer, and they said that the children are different. Maybe it’s because they have tablets. Maybe it’s because they don’t have the recess. They have the tablets. They watch way more TV. They’re way more sedentary. They have the ability to constantly chatter with each other through cell phones and through devices. It’s like the key latch kid of our generation. I’d come home. I had a key to the house. I’d walk home, and I’d be 10-13 years old, somewhere there. No one was home until my parents got home later in the day. We had to learn how to make our own snacks, and do our own thing. We were independent at a very young age. These children are also independent because, in a way, the kids are going off and using these devices the parents aren’t part of it. There isn’t an adult looming over them monitoring the situation. We’re just seeing in the classroom there’s way more bullying. There’s way more backtalk. There’s way more defiance. The children are just rude. They’re becoming violent. It’s crazy.   [00:32:45] Daniel Louzonis: Let me jump in here for one second. You’re going to have people listen to this, listen to me. I’ve been me for a long time. They’re going to hear things like three-hour math sessions when they’re young, aggressive. You’re going to hear them, “Let them enjoy their childhood.” I’ve heard a lot without going into how I want them to enjoy their adulthood too or that whole argument. People say, “Kids aren’t developmentally ready to read until a certain age.” I completely disagree with almost everybody who says it. They have their mind made up.   [00:33:18] Ashley James: My son, when he was 18 months old—18 months old. This is when most children don’t form sentences. They can say words like car like, “Ca, ca.” “Oh, it’s a car.” My son, at 18 months old, knew the entire alphabet backward and forwards. We could pick random letters and he would pick it up, and he’d be able to say, “This is a C. This is a D. This is a Z.” He could say all of them, uppercase and lowercase. We weren’t doing three hour English sessions with him. We were just actively playing with him with letters. I was just blown away that an 18-month-old knew all the letters, and then was able to start recognizing more than letters—was able to start recognizing words. By the time he was two-and-a-half, he was writing his name. He was holding a pen and writing his name. Then I met a four-year-old, a friend of mine has a four-year-old, who at age four did not know what an A was, did not know what a B was, wouldn’t recognize any part of the alphabet. She was just waiting to put him in public school. If every child has the potential to know the alphabet at 18 months old—he was having fun, it was play. He wasn’t suffering. If every child could know the alphabet at 18 months, could start to read and write by two and a half, and love it, and enjoy it, and it’s fun for them. Then by the time they’re three or four reading complete books and enjoying it and loving it, why not? What are we doing wrong that children are suffering? All of a sudden they start hating learning, and they start pushing back.   [00:35:10] Daniel Louzonis: Those are huge, huge great topics. First of all, the next time someone says the kid’s not developmentally ready for reading—to read now—why don’t you say, “Well, they’re not developmentally ready for the iPad or a television but that’s not stopping you either.” Those are dangerous, dangerous things. But about loving to read and loving your letters, my daughter, she had her letters and she’d carry them around with her all the time. I definitely fondly remember those years 10 years ago. If anybody hates exercise and nutrition, what does your body going to look like? This is just so obvious. People understand the health analogies, and I always go back to them. If you hate healthy food and you hate to exercise, you’re going to hear people say, “I hate to run. I hate this. I hate vegetables.” Well, what’s your body going to look like? Well, what if you hate to learn? What if you hate to read, and write, and think, and focus? What is your whole entire life going to look like? Unfortunately, that’s the essence of education, right? You’re never going to achieve anything in life, you’re never going to even scratch the surface of your potential—your God-given potential—if you hate to think, and learn, and read, and write, and meet people, and experiment. You don’t even have a chance, but what school does is it makes kids hate to read. It makes them associate reading with coercion, with obligation, with sitting inside, with conformity, with all these stifling activities. This isn’t proven, this is just like internet stuff. They say that 40% of college graduates will never read another book. When I first read that, I said, “Well, that’s true. After I graduated college, I didn’t read a book until I was about 29 or 30 years old.” Luckily, I actually discovered reading on my own, and I discovered that books were extremely fascinating. They could solve all my problems and open doorways to every path of abundance on this planet. Life’s treasure really is in books, but sadly, these kids are leaving the educational system with not just an unwillingness to read but active bibliophobia. Stand next to my son on 6th Avenue, and when people say, “Hey, what’s going on? Hey. Who are you?” or whatever. He’ll say, “Oh, I have a book here.” You will see them actually take two steps back. The concept of a book is scary to people. In my world, Satan has won. What worse oppression can you will upon someone than making them think that they’re not intelligent, making them think that effort won’t be rewarded, and closing their mind? They don’t have to be in prison. They’re in a prison. They’ve got their hands cuffed. They’re in a straightjacket forevermore, unless something shocks them into a resurrection, or some type of reincarnation, or invigoration.   [00:38:16] Ashley James: Wouldn’t it be amazing if we all picked up a book? Most of us are isolated at home. We don’t have much to do. The parks are closed. The movie theaters are closed. The restaurants are closed. We shouldn’t go visit anyone. If we all picked up a book and reinvigorated the love of learning and love of reading. It might make it worth it. This whole—I don’t know. There’s a lot of bad going on, but let’s focus on the good because we can’t control. It’s out of our control, so instead of feeling helpless, let’s focus on what we can control. What we can control is the environment right now that our children are in and also our own mental environment, our internal environment. If we could all do things like pick up books and remember how much reading is fun. I know that in the last year or so your business has really taken off because of the vaccine laws in your area, some states. It was because of the measles, right? That parents took their children out of school for multiple reasons. Some they’re not for vaccines, but some parents they had to because their children would be harmed from the vaccine because they were known to be susceptible. They had no choice other than to start homeschooling. Tell us about that journey.   [00:40:05] Daniel Louzonis: I believe it started in California where they—I think California got rid of the religious exemption for vaccines. In other words, kids go to school, they have to get punctured. I don’t know how many dozen times, how often. There was always a loophole that said if you have religious reasons to not get it you could still go to school. New York followed suit. I believe it was in August this year, so school in New York starts in September. In August, this law came out and there were all these families that under no circumstances we’re going to get their kids vaccinated and sent to school. It was public school and private school. There was a little bit of tyranny. There was nowhere to hide except in homeschooling. They are all reluctant homeschoolers much in the way that all COVID-19 parents have become reluctant homeschoolers. The number of homeschoolers in Manhattan, or New York City, it doubled. We usually grow 5% a year, whatever. There’s a lot of organic growth every year in homeschooling, and it has been since the 1980, but it doubled. I mean a 100% increase in the number of people homeschooling in New York City.   [00:41:29] Ashley James: Because of the measles? Because of the removal of religious vaccination?   [00:41:35] Daniel Louzonis: Yes, it doubled. What you have was you have all these people who were reluctant homeschoolers. They didn’t actually want to homeschool, they just didn’t want to go to school. There are really two types of homeschoolers.   [00:41:47] Ashley James: They didn’t want to homeschool, but they had no choice because they didn’t want to have the vaccinations for their children, either because they’re against vaccinations, or because their children would have been harmed by them because they knew that they were susceptible.   [00:42:04] Daniel Louzonis: Yeah. Let me get into that. It was a culture clash to start out with. I even did a podcast, are they pro-homeschooling, or are they just anti-vaccine? Anytime you get an influx of people, a bunch of them move into the neighborhood, some people are welcoming, some people are not, some people are saying, “They don’t look like us. They don’t talk like us.”   [00:42:24] Ashley James: The culture changes, right?   [00:42:26] Daniel Louzonis: Right. There’s been an ongoing assimilation process in New York City for—the change is more for them than for us. Homeschoolers, they know how to self-quarantine. They know how to draw boundaries. No one’s forced to really do anything with anybody. I did get to meet some of these new people. Like I said, they were in nooks and crannies. You didn’t realize how many. I was astounded by how many people it was. It turns out, there were tons and tons of people and when you talk to them—I always ask people, it doesn’t matter if you’re sitting at the bar, or sitting next to me in church, or I bump into you, I’m always going to ask you, “Where you’re from? What’s your story?” I’m just interested. I will always ask people why they’re homeschooling. Nowadays, you can just almost say, “Do you have vaccines?” And half the people, it’s yes. When you hear their stories the reasons why they’re homeschooling, they’ll talk about their sister who was in a coma for three months after this, or their son who had eczema so bad, all these things from vaccines. You and your people probably know, you might even know more about this stuff than I do, but it’s the vaccine injury Club that’s not publicized. That if you talk about it on TV you’re going to get audited and thrown off the air. You’re going to get delisted by Google and all this stuff. There’s a huge community of people out there that were just trying to get by and send their kids to school normally without the vaccine, and all of a sudden they couldn’t do that. The worst thing now that’s happening is that this virus is going to probably—and I’m sure you have a lot of strong thoughts on this too—it’s probably going to make the vaccine enforcement even more militant. They’re talking about medical martial law and how you can’t go anywhere without showing your papers that you’re fully vaccinated, that you’re up to date.   [00:44:19] Ashley James: Yeah. They’re saying it’ll have an RFID chip, you won’t be able to get your driver’s license, you won’t be able to pay your due taxes. There’s just talk. It’s just talk at this point, but it is infringing upon our freedom and our rights especially when you understand the complexities of vaccines. Even people who are pro-vaccine. Again, I try to stay neutral because I’m not here to—I don’t know—fear monger. I’m not here to tinfoil hat anyone. I’m just asking people to please question things.   [00:45:02] Daniel Louzonis: Do their own research.   [00:45:03] Ashley James: Please, do your own research. Please, just question. I had someone message me once after a really great interview about vaccines. She’s like, “I’ve been listening for a while. I really love your show, but I’m really confused. Why isn’t the flu shot great? I thought it was the best thing in the world.” It’s just people believe what they’ve been told by their doctor, or by some TV commercial, or by some news broadcast, or by what their mom said. I remember, the last time I got a flu shot I was 18 years old. This is back in the 90s. I remember my chiropractor was giving them. She thought it was the best thing in the world. My mom said, “This is a new thing out. We can get vaccines,” this is in Canada, “We can get a shot and we won’t get the flu.” The thing is, my mom and I saw Naturopaths. We ate non-processed foods. We ate, it was like a Paleo diet at the time. They didn’t call it Paleo, but we didn’t eat processed foods. We got a lot of sunlight. We took our vitamins. We never got sick. I mean never. I have no idea why my mom was so excited about the flu shot, but she was told by her chiropractor that it was the best thing in the world and we’ll never get sick if we get this flu shot. We both got it, and we got so sick from it. We were sick for two weeks. We were so violently sick from this flu shot. My mom and I just turned to each other and we’re like, “What were we thinking? This is ridiculous.” I had no idea that there were heavy metals in it. That there was a fetal tissue in it. That there was DNA from other animals in it. Just the list, you go down the list of ingredients. I had no idea, but it definitely didn’t make me healthier. That had me just a little back in my mind like, “Oh, wow. Interesting that that could happen,” because it was sold to us. They only talked about how it’s healthy. My thing is when someone tries to sell you a man-made drug or treatment, and they only tell you the good, and they don’t tell you the bad—because everything has a side effect—and they only tell you the good. If you just question. If you just go, “Hey, that sounds great. Can you tell me about the bad?” or “Hey, can you tell me about the ingredients?” or “Hey, can you tell me about the studies that prove that it’s safe?” All of a sudden, people come at you and attack you personally. “Oh, you’re an anti-vaxxer.” You start getting attacked personally just by asking questions. You weren’t attacking the drug or the treatment, you were just wanting more information. If someone is attacked for asking for information, then you know that there’s something up. There’s a culture that’s been created that it’s not safe to ask questions around vaccines.   [00:48:07] Daniel Louzonis: It’s the expert culture.   [00:48:09] Ashley James: What do you mean?   [00:48:11] Daniel Louzonis: You can’t get on TV unless you’re somehow seen as an expert. They have a degree from here, a Ph.D. from there. Just because someone’s on TV—I’ve been on TV, that doesn’t make me an expert. What makes someone an expert is the results that they get, and who needs experts? “Oh, people who can’t think for themselves,” or who can’t think for themselves? Well, people educated by a system. People who never even planned out their own day until they were 22 years old, if ever. The school system is an obedient system. It has lobotomized brains where people can’t think for themselves. We all have friends and family members, but if you ask them their opinion on something, every single word that they say you’ll know is straight from a certain publication. They literally can’t form their own opinions. It’s called received opinion. This is what experts need. This is what people in power need. They don’t need or want anybody who can think independently. Going back to what type of kids are we going to raise? If we don’t teach our kids to be able to think critically and understand that people on TV, people in the media, politicians, that they have an agenda. If they don’t see that, then they will take a lot of things at face value. The flu shot you’re talking about. Do you know that they actually pay you to take to get the flu shot now? Did you know you get a $25 Amazon gift card?   [00:49:40] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.   [00:49:42] Daniel Louzonis: They started out saying, “Oh, it’s only $60.” Then it was only $25 or $30. Then it was only $17 at CVS. They got it into the retail establishments. Now, if you get a flu shot, they will give you a $25 gift card. That started I believe this year. Your viewers can google that. Yeah, they’re literally paying you for this loyalty oath, and it is a loyalty oath. It’s a faith in science, faith in doctors. It’s its own pseudo-religion. Meanwhile, what they know about the body is still zero.  The body is a mysterious thing and nobody should ever speak with certainty about a treatment, about a medicine, or anything because they really don’t know. This is—my brother taught me this term years ago—a god complex. I had to look it up. This was before Google, but a god complex is a belief in infallibility. If you go to a doctor and say, “Hey, well what about this, this, and this?” Not only are they going to call you an anti-vaxxer, are they going to call you a Google mommy. There are a lot of complicated reasons. First of all, that doctor has been giving that vaccine to thousands of people. In his own mind, he can’t one day think, “Maybe I’ve been hurting people.” When a person’s income, and their livelihood, and their ego depends on them doing a certain thing, they’re not going to be easily moved or easily encouraged to reevaluate that. It’s just human nature. We all kind of dig ourselves in, and so there’s that too.  A friend of mine in Florida, in Naples Florida, his son got a round of vaccinations when he was really young. His son came home and started staring at ceiling fans and just dazing out. He says, “Oh boy.” He didn’t know what it was. He’s googling. He became a Google Daddy. He found out that it looked like his son—he saw him, he’s craving carbs. I’m just telling you what he told me. His son got a diagnosis out on the edge at the autism spectrum, okay, whatever. Daughter comes along next year-and-a-half, same doctor. He says to the doctor, “I want to pass on this round of vaccinations.” The doctor started dropping f-bombs on him, and told him to get the bleep out, and go find a new bleeping doctor. You talk about being called a Google mommy is one thing, but trying to find a doctor who will take you, that’s a whole other. The homeschoolers in New York have had a hard time finding doctors who will even take them on, finding pediatricians. Even before they started ramping up the forced vaccinations, they were going up to doctors and saying, “Well, we’re not going to give you insurance if you don’t have a 98% or 99% vaccination.   [00:52:33] Ashley James: Premera actually pays a bonus. In certain states, Premera pays a bonus if they have a certain percentage of vaccines. It is such a good bonus that it keeps the lights on. It’s the difference between profitability and loss for these pediatricians. I’ve had this covered in an interview, but it was covered a little bit in The Truth About Vaccines, which is a docuseries. I have had a few interviews worth that went into detail. I think Dr. Paul Thomas talked about it, off the top of my head.  Listeners can go to learntruehealth.com and type in Paul Thomas. He’s a great pediatrician in Portland who wrote a book called Safe Vaccines. He’s not anti or pro. He’s actually pro-informed consent. He wants to give you all the bad. You’re told all the good, here’s actually all the bad, and you should know. You should know both sides, and you should know what to do instead. Half of his practice chose not to vaccinate or actually maybe a bit more. During flu outbreaks, when I interviewed him, there was a massive flu outbreak. The hospitals in Portland had six-hour wait times. This was about two winters ago, I don’t know if you remember.    [00:54:00] Daniel Louzonis: 2018.   [00:54:01] Ashley James: There was a big flu scare, and all the hospitals in all the cities were just completely slammed with influenza. His clinic has four doctors and a few nurse practitioners. It was a big clinic. They have thousands and thousands of patients, over 10,000 patients. Friday afternoon, they’re expecting because they called around. They found out that every hospital in Portland was like a six-hour wait because of influenza. They said they went home early Friday. They got zero phone calls from the parents. None of their patients were sick with influenza. They actually went home early because they were just like, “Okay, we can wrap it up. Everyone’s fine.” Whereas they were expecting to be slammed also, but he said he attributed that to the fact that the children take vitamin D, they get plenty of sunlight. He educates his patients on how to eat healthy, not junk food, but how to eat healthy, real food, and they choose not to vaccinate, and they choose to do alternative things other than vaccinations. He just saw, he sees it in his practice. You say expert opinions, he sees it in his practice that the children who get to run outside, who are homeschooled, who get to eat real food, and who aren’t put on a ton of drugs, they’re the ones who have really healthy immune systems.   [00:55:36] Daniel Louzonis: What about stress too, right? How much does constant stress reduce the immune system? I’m not an expert on it, but I’m pretty sure that there’s a high correlation between vulnerability and the amount of stress that kids who are studying for math tests every week, and being woken up early, not getting enough sleep, who are on devices all the time, and who are just constantly being pushed, poked, and prodded.  Stress is a big deal. I tell my kids all the time, I could yell my head off at them all day long and they wouldn’t experience the natural organic stress of being in school, being under a microscope having kids. I’m 100% serious. Always worrying about, “Are my pants a little too purple? Or this, or my hair. Do I have big zit on my face? What’s this person going to say? Is this person going to…?” The constant accumulate micro stresses of being in school. Look, every personal development expert knows the concept of a mastermind is that you go join a group of other entrepreneurs or other social circles where people are operating at a high level, and just by being in that group of fast-charging achievers you level yourself up. They level you up. What happens in school on so many different levels is that because it’s age-graded, the students all pull their ignorance.   [00:57:12] Ashley James: It’s the lowest common denominator. It’s the Homer Simpson model. You look at the Simpsons. I choose the Simpsons because I learned the idea of the lowest common denominator back when the Simpsons were really popular.   [00:57:31] Daniel Louzonis: Wait, not in math class? [00:57:33] Ashley James: Its ideas that why is it that Fox, for example, or whatever, or CBS, why do they put out shows that are so dumb? They’re funny but they’re really dumb. It’s this idea that they need to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Let’s dumb down everyone down so that everyone can participate in the entertainment that’s dumb instead of trying to raise people up. This idea that’s like, “Let’s get everyone like Homer Simpson where we’re all dumbed down together instead of challenging people to and pulling them up.”   [00:58:24] Daniel Louzonis: What’re low expectations, right? I think it was Condoleezza Rice. I think she was working with Bush—the Bush two. She’s talked about an expression or she bandied about an expression, “The bigotry of low expectations.” If you have low expectations of people they will never break through that ceiling. You have to have high escalating—even if you’re a parent. If your kids were doing the dishes and making their bed this month, well, what can you add to that next month? You have to be pushing people. They have all this potential. They respond to it. They feel respected when you ask more of them. It’s not just the TV. The newspapers, I remember years ago them saying that, going back into the 80s at newspapers were now written at a fourth and fifth-grade level. Online, they say, “Oh, keep your videos short. Use one-word sentences. Use one-sentence paragraphs because nobody has any attention span.”   [00:59:25] Ashley James: My shows are two hours long. I probably could get more listeners if it was like a five-minute show, but it would be, again, appealing to the lowest common denominator. I want to raise people up. I want to dive deep into these discussions, and pull information out of the brains of the guests, and enrich the listener as much as possible. We have to challenge ourselves so that we can rise up.  This brings up my question for the practical application. My five-year-old son, back when he was two and a half he loved doing this—picking up a pen, start writing, but now he’s fighting me. This idea and I’m watching my friends’ kids who don’t want to do chores. You’re saying, “What could you add to the list next month?” What about the children who are defiant, or the children who don’t want to do that? They don’t want to sit down and do math work. They don’t want to do the dishes. They don’t want to do their bed. How do you get to the point where they’re excited to do it, and they want to do more, and they feel that the responsibility is you respecting them, and they’re excited about the responsibility? How do you flip it so that they go from defiance to excitement?   [1:00:45] Daniel Louzonis: Some children are actually that ODD, that oppositional defiant disorder. There are some children who feel so uncomfortable doing anything that they’re told, that if you say, “Up,” they’ll say, “Way down.” If you say, “Yes,” they’ll say, “No way.” Even to their own self, like destruction. This will be hard for you if you do it this way. They don’t care. They really have trouble. The good thing about those kids is that they will not just listen to the authorities. You probably heard the expression, “The strong-willed child.” I’m sure there are books about, “the strong-willed child.” One thing we say about my daughter because my daughter is in this category. My kids are the opposite. My son will do anything that you ask him, but only what you ask him. My daughter will do nothing that you ask. I actually have two polar opposites. He needs to be a little more self-motivating, and she needs to be a little more receptive to people who are wiser than her and even people who pay the bills. Maybe you should do this one thing. What we say about her is that, euphemistically, “Well, she has leadership qualities. She’s not a follower.” To answer your question specifically about Brave, some kids don’t like math because of the curriculum. Some kids don’t like math because they’re just testing whether or not it’s optional. You get tests, they get tests, you get tests. Sometimes, the kid may, this is like a 5% chance, they may have dyscalculia where they have trouble seeing three fingers is three really quickly. But in my experience, there’s a lot of things you can do especially if you have the ultimate leverage and flexibility that is homeschooling. There are a lot of things that you can do with him. For example, if he’s five—I’ll even walk you through specifically what I would do with him. I would have him count by twos. He can count, I’m sure. The first thing when you start with young kids—count to 30, great. Count to 60 by 2s, great. Now, count by 3s to 90. Count by 5s to 150, 10s to 300, and we just skip count over and over and over and over again. This is a karate kid drill that can be done verbally in a car while you’re driving, when you’re walking, it can be done on paper, and we can add many, many layers of complexity to it. We would say, “Well, how do we add 10? 17 plus 10, well it’s 27. The kids can pick that up. Well, how do we add 9?” Well, we go up 10 and we come back 1, great.” “I want you to count by 9s to 270.” We start with 9 and we say, “Well, it’s not 19, we come back 1 is 18. It’s not 28, we come back 1, 27,” and they learned to count by 9s up to 270. Then they learned to count by 8s, and then we learned to count by 7s, and 11s, and 12s, and then we count backward. We say, “Count from 270 to 0 by 9s. We do these same self-mastery drills over and over and over and over again. We time them. There’s a time component. To count by 9s, it took them 4 minutes you write it down. They can see. Now it took them three minutes. Next thing you know it’s a minute and a half. They feel good about what they’re doing. They can see their progress. They know they couldn’t do it. They remember they couldn’t do it a week ago, and now they’re starting to own the numbers. This is all without word problems. It’s all without common core, and it just keeps it very simple. Math is very, very important. It’s become lost on the public with the common core mishandling of it that math is a foundational skill. My whole life was built on math. I was captain of my math team in high school, and we won the New England championship, which at the time, one of the most competitive leagues in the country. I look back—my kids, everything I’ve been able to do with them: read thousands of books, win chess tournaments, play multiple instruments. All these things that we’ve been able to do build entrepreneurship. It’s all built on math. Like I said, school is ruining kids for reading, it’s also ruining everybody for math. The homeschooling world does not do a good job with math because they don’t know what to do. They don’t know what’s different about school math. They tend to use a lot of manipulatives and stuff, but the rigor of school math is important. We have to infuse our homeschool math with some rigor. The number one tip I have for infusing rigor is to do it every day first thing. If you try to do math at 3:00 PM after he’s been running around all day, or 8:00 PM after you’ve been working all day at night, it’s not going to happen. My top tip for, not just everyone else but myself included, is you get up and you do math right away. The first academic subject you do is the toughest one. Even if it’s 30 minutes, or 40 minutes, or 20 minutes, you just do it right away, and then the rest of the day will run downhill. I can definitely give you all these—what would we say? I can give you some videos to watch on this skip counting, and I can even give you a link so that your listeners can see exactly what I’m talking about. It might not come over the ear so expertly. We do basic drills with paper and pencil, and this skip counting drill will teach your kid addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and even factoring all in one swoop. It’s the most powerful drill that I have all my little four and five-year-old math genius students doing and really enjoying. That’s the building block that I have for math before we even go on to algebra and stuff. We have this one thing here. What else do you want to know? What else can I help you with? Is it the pen that he doesn’t want to touch, the pencil specifically?   [01:07:06] Ashley James: Oh, no, no. It’s the act of now sitting down and doing it. It’s like he would rather be doing something else. We’ll do one page of schoolwork and as we’re going through he goes, “Can we just do one page?” I’m like, “No, we’re going to do more.” He’s halfway through the next page, “Can this be the last page?” It’s just the constant, “When’s this going to be over? When’s this going to be over?” Any time I go, “Okay. It’s time to do schoolwork.” He’s like, “No,” and he runs away from me. It’s funny though because he started out really loving it, and then something shifted, and now he doesn’t like it.  I see it in other parents and other kids. I thought it’d be great in general, especially parents who are now stuck with their kids at home because of the COVID-19. They’re not used to getting their kids to sit down and do work. Then they’re finding that their kids are, “I’d rather watch TV. I’d rather go play my video game. I’d rather chat with my friend. I’ll do that later. No. I don’t want to do that right now.” Instead of punishing them, because the thing is I started saying like, “You’re going to get a timeout.” I started bringing out the stick instead of the carrot. Now it’s a punishable offence to not do school work so now school work is punishment. It’s like, “Geez, how do we get this to be fun again?” What he loves doing is leave him on his own. He’s like, “I’m going to go do a science experiment.” All this morning he was playing with baking soda and vinegar. He really, really wants to make science experiments, and he wants to make things explode, and make elephant toothpaste, and stuff like that. We’ve got the ant farm. He’s all about finding bugs and worms. He helps me in the garden. He’s really about learning about insects. If it’s something that he’s really excited about, we could do that for hours, but when it comes to the things that he isn’t excited about. He’s just fighting me on it, which I think it’s kind of normal for some kids. If other parents are struggling with that, how can we turn it around? How do we help the parents go from crisis schooling to homeschooling where it’s really getting the child excited and motivated about their education?   [01:09:39] Daniel Louzonis: Look, all that stuff he’s doing with science experiments, that’s awesome. You have a lot of currency to play with, and there are a lot of people who could never get their kids to show such enthusiasm, and such curiosity, and focus. That’s good, but I maintain that if you add in the rigor of the math, and I’ll give you a couple of tips on how you can get it in, that that stuff will go to the next level. This goes back to what I was saying, math is incredibly important.  All of our life we’re trying to figure out problems. We have to put them on paper, we have to deal with abstract issues, and try to identify variables, and solve for unknowns. Math is actually a powerful tool. Actually, doing algebra itself is not, but the mindset, the discipline that you need to have to do that, that’s transferable into everything. Again, in the morning, I call it math for breakfast, you do math right away. With some kids, they say, “Well, you’re not eating breakfast until it’s done or until half of it’s done.” For some kids you only have to do that once, and they realize it’s a lot easier to do it. I understand your reluctance to use punishment, but the reality is that the world punishes our lack of discipline. We’re preparing our kids for the outside world. The real world is going to be way harsher on our kids than we could even ever—I mean, you’re 40 years old too. You know the real world will chew you up and spit you out a million different ways. Having your kid do 20, 30 minutes, an hour of math, that is not going to destroy their love or learning. What that’s going to do is that’s going to say, “Hey, in the real world, sometimes you guys do things you don’t want to do.” Again, you would use incentives. With my son John, we have a Lego set on top of the refrigerator when he was young. I said, “When you finish these three workbooks you could get that Lego set with Star Wars or whatever,” so he had some little thing to work towards positively. Negatively, if my kids didn’t do like I say, “We’re going to do four pages,” we’re on sixteen, I turned the page, I circled the fourth page. Any lip whining, bad job, distracting the other kid, whatever, “Now we’re doing five pages.” You just do it like you would do all disciplining. The way that all these experts teach. Just do it dispassionately. You do an extra page, that’s it. If they complain, it’s another extra page. You have to let them know that they can’t go out into the real world and complain about things that they don’t want to do. You’re raising your expectations every week, every month, or whatever. 20 minutes, 30 minutes of math, he can handle it. He sounds like he’s very bright. As a homeschooling parent, math is a major pain point because it involves a lot of stress. People feel like they’re failing their kids if they don’t do math. Math is the one subject that you have to generate momentum in because everything is built upon that which comes before it. You can’t take a month off from math. In school, they take two months off in the summer from math, and every year, the kids slide back 2.4 months. This is why if you buy a Kumon book, or any of the math workbooks, if you buy a 3rd-grade math book, you’ll see the first 15%-20% of it is review. They assume you’re going to constantly slide back. Math is my only thing. If I would say there are two things you can’t do without, it’s math early on, it’s for the kid as a building block, it’s also for mom and dad to generate some self-confidence, and then they can do whatever they want the rest of the day. I’m sorry, math and then reading, and they can do whatever they want the rest of the day. If they just sit an hour of math, and an hour of reading, and or writing — like writing, like freewriting, transcript of writing —from 8:00 AM-10:00 AM. If they just did that, they would probably be qualified to almost get into Harvard. Just those two habits, but you can’t take the summers off. You can’t take weeks off. We’re on spring break this week, “Well, look, mommy’s not on spring break. Mommy has to do dishes.” You don’t get breaks, just two hours a day, and it’ll be automatic. They wouldn’t even know that it was optional to not do it. A fish doesn’t know that it’s wet. It’s just normal to get up every day, and read, and whatever. The reading thing, look, not enough people understand that reading is like the homeschooling parents’ secret weapon. I used to drive to Florida from Boston in New York with two little kids in my car and my wife wasn’t with me. We wouldn’t put a movie on or anything. They would read the whole way. The homeschooling families who have done the complete screen detox and have turned their kids into raging bibliophiles, they have so much leverage because they can take their kids anywhere. I used to take my kids on consulting gigs. I would sit and I would work with other families, and my kids would sit on the couch for 3 hours, 10 feet away, and not move. My client just couldn’t stop looking at my kid like, “How do you get your kid to sit like that?” What parent doesn’t want their kid to be able to sedate themselves, to fire up their imagination, expand their vocabulary, and all those great things with a book? They’re sedating kids with devices and with over-scheduling.   [01:15:05] Ashley James: Dumbing them down.   [01:15:07] Daniel Louzonis: Over-scheduling too. Some sign them up for activities. It’s two days off from school. It’s one day off. “It’s Martin Luther King Day, I got to sign them up for something.” Really? One day?   [01:15:20] Ashley James: I love it. I love that idea that the children are jumping into books instead of jumping in the screens, and that’s enriching them. What do you think about learning from screens? Because I see in some homeschooling groups, “Oh, ABCmouse is so great. My son is doing a lot of tablet learning.” What do you think about that?   [01:15:45] Daniel Louzonis: It’s not good. It’s definitely not good.   [01:15:47] Ashley James: Can you cite studies or what’s your experience to show that it’s not good?   [01:15:53] Daniel Louzonis: It’s that books are so much better. It’s that moving their bodies is so much better. Anything that gets between a child and bibliophilia I want out because books are so, so important, right? I was just telling my wife this yesterday. Someone was saying, “Oh, my kid. I was showing him the flashcards, and they were identifying numbers 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 10, and when it came to the 11th number they said pause.” They thought 11 meant pause. They’re saying at kindergarten, they come in, they give them a real book, and they don’t know how to turn the page. They’re trying to swipe to turn the pages of a physical book. Look at a child who’s on a tablet, look at their posture.   [01:16:40] Ashley James: Oh, it’s horrible.   [01:16:42] Daniel Louzonis: They’re not going to blink. They’re not going to be moving their bodies. We haven’t talked about it but this is a health podcast, and I should definitely bring it up. Fine motor skills. Fine motor skills is something that people don’t have any clue about. I honestly had no idea either. I thought that cursive handwriting was utterly useless, and then I saw some guru talk about how it’s been proven that nothing fires up the brain like cursive handwriting. They put the electrodes on the head, and they show that when you write the cursive handwriting—ideally cursive handwriting on a blank sheet of paper—is a very powerful intense brain exercise. I saw this guy, and then I went down into this rabbit hole of hit the guru behind the guru. Not only did I start changing my homeschooling approach and incorporating more writing in cursive, but personally, what I do every day is a form of active meditation is I do cursive handwriting. What I’ll do is I’ll write out famous quotes by Einstein, or Lincoln, or Oprah Winfrey, or whatever. I’ll write it out with my best cursive— right-handed—and then I will take the pen and put it in my left hand. I will write it out going from the right side of the page back to the left in reverse mirror-image cursive. What I’m doing when I do that is I’m using both sides of my brain, and I’m cultivating ambidexterity. The gurus behind the guru, they’ve basically proven that all these geniuses—like going back to Leonardo da Vinci—were ambidextrous. That the rest of us are using half of our brains when they’re using their whole brain. I think it was Michelangelo when he was painting the Sistine Chapel for hours and hours and hours, paintbrush overhead, hoisted up there, when he got tired with his right hand he would just switch to his left hand. Leonardo da Vinci could write with one hand and draw with the other one. Some people consider him to be smarter than Einstein, but he could write with one hand and draw with the other simultaneously. Lost in what’s going on with this shift to screens is that kids don’t get enough time wielding a pencil. You and I took it for granted. How many times did we get a piece of paper and write our name and our date and just go? Nowadays, with Khan Academy, and with all these online classes, and with millennial teachers who are giving kids forms, and multiple-choice stuff, bubble tests because it’s easier for them to grade, the kids are not using their hands. They’re not using their hands to knit and sew, and they’re not exercising their fine motor skills whittling things. They’re just not using their hands. The net effect of that is that they’re not developing their brain with the most powerful tools they can. Like I said, it’s been proven that cursive handwriting is like the best thing, best exercise you can do. I started teaching math, I don’t know, 10 years ago—officially—to other kids, and I started noticing their pencil grips. They had these caveman grips. You couldn’t even understand how they could wield the pencil that way. This was my introduction to it, and I started to see. You don’t notice anyone’s a parent until you’re pregnant and have a kid yourself. You don’t notice anyone has a Toyota Camry until you start shopping for Toyota Camrys. I didn’t notice anybody’s pencil grip until I started doing this, and it’s gotten worse and worse over time. One of the reasons is these kids aren’t getting enough time with paper and pencil. One reason is not getting enough reps. The other reason is that the hyperstimulation of video games, and Spongebob, and TV, actually fries the part of the brain that controls fine motor skills. The video games are making it so these kids, not only can’t use a pencil or a pen properly, but they hate it. You think they hate books? They hate writing like you would not believe. Then they get to math, and there are a lot of kids, and I’ve had a lot—especially boys and girls who are good at math. They know that 8 times 7 is 56. They’re just good with it, they understand it, but then they get to pre-algebra. In algebra, they have to write out step-by-step. You have to use scrap paper. You have to do a lot of work—multi-step calculation and computation. Because they hate the pen and the pencil so much, they won’t write 3x + 7 = 85, 3x = 78. They won’t do it because, again, they have this weakness. It’s almost like somebody who has no wind, no stamina, they’re out of shape. They can’t play soccer if they don’t have the cardiovascular training to move to get to the ball. These kids that can’t wield a pencil or a pen, they don’t have the fine motor skill cardio to be able to sit down with paper and pencil. There’s a reason why the top—I wonder if you know this or not—but the top-selling book categories on Amazon are adult coloring books. The reason is, it’s a form of active meditation. You’re forced to focus. It’s taking you out of that multitasking, a hyper-distracting state we are where we have inbound on social media, text messaging, and whatever. It’s really, really good for the brain. I’m dead set against all this fake tablet education. I have yet to see a kid, and I’ve met a lot of kids who were super accelerating geniuses who were on the device a lot. I have never seen one. All my kids who were at super high levels four, or five, or six grade levels above normal, they’re not on screens at all. I know they’re not necessary, and I actually believe that they’re pretty bad on several fronts. Hopefully, in that long-winded answer, you could catch wind of a couple of those fronts where I see it’s risky, right? You’re opening a Pandora’s box. You give a kid an iPad, and they tilt it away from you, and your friend shows them how to do this or that. Their ability to be sneaky on that is it’s like sending letters by rabbit. It’s not going to get there. If you’ve seen this at the airport where you’re going through airport security, and a kid has a device, and they have to put the device through the machine. I’ve seen it multiple, multiple times where they have to take the device from the kid, and the kid has an absolute meltdown because they don’t want to put the device through the metal detector for a minute. I’m a little bit of, I don’t know. Your viewers can put their own label on me, but I will go up to people in public where I have done it and I’m like, “Why are you giving that kid the iPad? They’re two years old. Why do you have a mounted iPad on the stroller?”   [01:23:36] Ashley James: It drives me crazy when I’m at the grocery store that parents give cell phones to their children and young—young children. I’ve never handed my cell phone to my son to sedate him at a grocery store. I don’t hand my cell phone to my son, but I’m just saying, it’s an opportunity for learning. The whole time I’m talking to him. He’s sitting in the cart. He could walk but it’s a lot easier to have him—he could walk now. Sometimes he helps push the cart, but I actually prefer him to be—him and I can look at each other, we can talk, he can see what’s going into the cart, and he can help pick things out because he can see all the produce because he’s above it all, sitting in the cart facing me. We’re talking the whole time about what’s going in the cart, and about what we’re going to make for dinner, about what he wants, and we’re having a discussion. He says, “Oh, what’s that?” I said, “You want to try this? What kind of new vegetable do you want to try? Do you want to try a new fruit?” Sometimes he’ll just start eating the kale raw before we bought it because it’s not weighed, it’s by a bushel, like $2 a bunch or whatever, not a bushel. He’ll just start eating it, so he’s engaged. I remember, this happened recently, him and I are talking, and I walk into the produce section with him, and there was a mom with a kid. Maybe about a year, year and a half younger than my son. That kid was just hunched over, neck totally hunched over, playing on a phone, and the mom was not talking to the kid at all. It just blows my mind because no matter how hyper your kid is, you can get through to them, and you can have this really meaningful conversation with them when you’re doing things like grocery shopping. It can be this incredible educational experience. My son points out things that—he goes, “Oh, grab a turnip.” I’m like, “Which one’s the turnip?” He knows which one the turnip is. I always get them mixed up with the rutabaga. They all look the same to me, these root vegetables. He knew which one the turnip was, and so I grabbed it, and then I had to google it. I pulled out my phone and I’m like sure enough. My husband and my son and I, we all go grocery shopping together because it’s a fun family experience. We were guessing which one’s the rutabaga, which one’s the turnip, which one’s the parsnip—I know what a parsnip looks like. The rutabaga and the turnip I always get them mixed up and my son doesn’t. He knows. He learned it once and he figured it out. He was the one that got it right. The three of us were having a bet like, “Okay, who’s got it right? Let’s all guess which vegetables these are.” He wanted us to buy it. He goes, “Can we make pancakes out of these?” He comes up with these crazy recipes. If your child is on a cell phone, they’re not making meaningful connections. They’re not learning about the world. They could be learning about food and how that nourishes the body. He’ll actually point to stuff and he’ll say, “Does that have sugar in it? What’s in that? Can I have this?” I’ll read the ingredients, and he’ll tell me, “Can you read the ingredients of this?” I’ll say, “Oh, no.” I’ll list off the ingredients and he goes, “No, I can’t have that.” Because he knows. He doesn’t feel good when he eats certain things, and he wants to feel good.  We don’t do foods that are high in sugar or any sugar. If it’s fruit, that’s one thing. There are natural fruit roll-ups and that’s a treat for him. There’s no sugar in it, it’s just fruit concentrate. He gets those kinds of treats, but he knows to ask to read the ingredients. I show him. I’m like, “Do you see the word sugar?” I’d show him the ingredients, and he looks through, and he tries to read it. He’s getting word recognition, and he’s also allergic to weird things like garlic. We have to really be careful, and I’ve shown him the ingredients. I say, “Do you see the word garlic here?”  Going to the grocery store is learning. Even now, this is the only place we can go is the grocery store, but we can use every time we go out the door. Even at restaurants. We look over and there’s an entire family on their cell phones, the kids included. I always look at them, I’m like, “How is it that every child in that family, plus the parents, all own a cell phone? These things are expensive.” Whereas you can be having a meaningful conversation. We were given to it for Christmas by a friend. It’s all these magnets that you can put together to make a robot. Just a little stuff. You could bring these puzzles. You could bring word games. You could bring things to the restaurant, or to wherever you’re going, or you can have the kid read the menu with you, or you can just talk about what you want to eat, or talk about what you want to do next. Just want to engage with your child versus the children that are just glued to the screens. They’re not learning how to communicate and how to engage.  I don’t want to shame the parents who do that because I know that they’re doing it for a reason. Maybe they feel that it’s made it easy for them, or they’re stressed out, and it gives them a break. I get that, but I think what gives us a break in the short-term—kind of like drinking a glass of wine every night to calm down. What is helping us in the short-term is harming us in the long term. “Oh, I just need this alcohol to relax. Oh, I just need my son to hold a cell phone to relax, to have a break.” It’s the short-term gratification that actually creates a far greater long-term problem.   [01:29:54] Daniel Louzonis: Well, here’s a quote for you, “Talking to children is as important as feeding them.” When you think about that, we didn’t get into language skills and language acquisition. One of the huge predictors of kid’s success in life is what their vocabulary is when they’re four, or five, and six years old. You almost can’t change it. Here’s the data point. I might have given it to you way back when, I’ll give it again. I think it’s 1950, the average working vocabulary by this one study of a five or six-year-old kid was 4,000 words. Today, it’s not 4,000 words anymore, it’s closer to 1,000. There are only two things, two reasons. One is actually preschool, daycare, and the other is the change since the 50s is television. The problem with preschool, daycare, and television is that they crowd out conversation. There are no adults talking to kids. There are no kids asking questions. Everyone’s on a device, or everyone’s being sedated by a device, or three-year-old kids are off at daycare amongst other three-year-old kids. You can’t learn any new vocab words from one of your peers. You learn vocab words from somebody speaking directly to you personally about something you can relate to or put in context and that has a bigger vocabulary than you. We didn’t even talk about language acquisition. A lot of people meet homeschool kids, and they can’t believe how mature they look, and act, and sound. The maturity thing is because they’re not being raised amongst kids their own age. They’re spending a lot of time with adults, but the rest of it—the rounded out education—is books, and it’s the vocabulary that they are acquiring from being around complete sentence wielding people. People who don’t speak in emojis and illiterate YouTube comments. Now that iPad, everybody has to understand that that iPad was designed to be addictive. The people who design it are Harvard psycho whatever neuropsychologists. They are watching, and trying to figure out, and trying to hack what makes an app addictive. They did this Sesame Street back in—   [01:32:27] Ashley James: Gamification.   1:32:28] Daniel Louzonis: Back in 1970, Sesame Street actually pioneered this. They would have three groups of kids, and they would have one in this room, and they’d be watching them like lab rats. They would have music, and sound effects, and a purple graphic versus a blue graphic. They would figure out what they had to put on the screen to keep the kids more glued to the screen. Spongebob is considered to be the worst. It was rated the worst cartoon for kids because of the number of rapid scene jumps and the overall anti-intellectual level of what goes on. Spongebob was built on Sesame Street. It was built on an industry that has figured out that getting you addicted to watching it is money in their pocket. They don’t get you addicted, they actually don’t have a product. That’s what’s going on with this iPad. Even the marketing. Go look at the marketing for all these apps. They’ll tell you that it’s been proven to advance, teach kids reading, and this and that. It’s all baloney. It’s all hogwash. I don’t see any kids coming off apps doing anything great. If anything, you’re introducing massive, massive risks into their future. I consider that personally, and it’s a little bit harsh. I consider giving a child an iPad an act of child abuse. Just like when the doctor tells you if you don’t give your kid 900 shots that you’re abusing that child. I think giving a kid an iPad is also setting them up to struggle in school, in terms of their personal self-esteem, and all of that. What you’re doing with Brave is awesome, but imagine if you had eight kids, right? If you have eight kids—and I know people who can handle eight kids with no screens, and no crutches, and whatever. I only have two kids, it’s a lot easier. Some people, they could be a single parent, they could be working a job and a half. It’s not so easy to resist the call of these screens. It gets very hard to fight with your kids and have them be the only one that’s not playing video games, the only one that’s not on the devices, the only one that doesn’t know what happened on Friends last night. Because I don’t know if you know, but apparently, Friends is a new show according to the 13-year-old kids who found it on Netflix. Did you know this? It’s been resurrected?   [01:34:51] Ashley James: That they what? Did they come up with a new Friends? I don’t know.   [01:34:56] Daniel Louzonis: Walk around New York City you’ll see all sorts of young kids wearing Friends t-shirts. There’s a location up here in lower Manhattan that has all these people standing out in front. I guess it’s where the Friend’s apartment was scened and these bus tours. Because in Netflix, Friends has been rejuvenated. The Office has been rejuvenated and so is Friends. All the young kids.   [01:35:24] Ashley James: Are into it. That’s funny.   [01:35:26] Daniel Louzonis: If they’re all talking about that, and look, I have a 13-year-old daughter. All her friends are talking about that stuff, and there’s no TV, there’s no Netflix here. She’s like, “Why can’t I watch it, this, that?” “You know, it’s not good for you. It’s inappropriate.” But it’s very hard. I’m a very tough person, but not everybody can fight and win that battle or has enough bandwidth to do that. Life is hard. Let’s go back to entrepreneurship and homeschooling education like our whole overall mission. What I’ve discovered is that life is really hard. It gets more complicated. Problems multiply and they compound. The things that you don’t know—what you don’t know about your career, or your body, or relationships, these grow. They grow, they metastasize in our lives, and we end up with kids, and aging parents, and financial difficulties—possibly or not. We’re trying to figure out all these things for ourselves when the root of all of it is that we didn’t learn about these things. Brave probably knows what xanthan gum is. I still don’t know what it is. We didn’t learn about these things when we were young. There’s no reason why you can’t learn about personal development and nutrition when you’re young. There’s no age minimum. There’s no reason you need to go out into the corporate world and burn out in order to learn about entrepreneurship, no. There’s just a crooked path that everyone else is following basically to nowhere, and we’re all just like going along with it. I remember I was 10 like it was yesterday. You wake up, you’re 40-45 years old, and you’re playing defense, you’re playing catch-up, you’re trying to read books, and learn things. It’s not good. I don’t want that for my kids. I want them to be playing offense from early on, like aggressive early offense. I want them to be future proof. [01:37:24] Ashley James: When is it a good time to introduce a computer? I’m sure someone’s thinking, “Well, we’re only moving away from pens and paper, moving more online, moving more digital.” We just bought a car a few months ago. It was 100% digital. They had just transitioned. It was Volkswagen. I love our GTI, by the way. It’s the best car I’ve ever owned. I love this thing. If you’re looking for a cool car, man, it’s so great. It’s so great. I’m really happy with the purchase, but the entire experience was online, it was digital. We sat there at the dealership for a few hours signing papers on an iPad, and walking through everything on an iPad. They said, “Yeah, we just transitioned. All of Volkswagens transitioned to digital.” I said, “Well, what if there’s a power outage?” She said, “We can’t sell a car.” Maybe they’ll break out the old papers for that, but basically, the whole world’s going digital, so are we doing a child a disservice by not having them learn how to use a mouse. Having them learn at a young age how to type on a keyboard and use a mouse. At what age should they learn how to use a computer since their entire future is going to be on a computer?   [01:38:51] Daniel Louzonis: Did Jeff Bezos grow up on a computer?   [01:38:54] Ashley James: No.   [01:38:56] Daniel Louzonis: No, he didn’t, and he still figured it out when he needed to. He grew up with a very strong traditional academic background in a massive work ethic. The idea that they’re going to fall behind—this is a fallacy. These kids, they have these neuroplastic brains. You could be five years ahead of them on say Adobe Audition—I don’t know if you use that for your podcast. You’d be five years ahead of them, they could catch you in like three months. There’s no risk of them falling behind. In fact, they will get further ahead because they can sit down and they can operate with paper and pencil. I have a great book recommendation for your audience. It’s called The Revenge of Analog. I can’t remember the author’s name, I’m not going to look it up right now, but The Revenge of Analog. You can put a link to it. Apparently, if you go to Google headquarters, everyone’s walking around with a Moleskine notebook. The idea that these people aren’t using paper and pencil is absolutely untrue. Jeff Bezos, if you work at Amazon and you want to call a meeting, I believe he demands you write a six-page paper to hand out to everybody before the meeting. You have to have writing skills to work for him. What do writing schools require? Well, you need to have some clarity of thought. He doesn’t want you calling a meeting with some random agenda that might or might not be based on a good idea. The idea that these kids—they need to be on a device otherwise they’ll fall behind is absolutely misplaced, so don’t let that enter your mind. When should you put them on a computer? When should you give a child a gun, right? Say you’re on a frontier 200 years ago. Your child needs that gun to hunt, to protect the family. Even if they’re 11 years old, your 11-year-old needs to know how to use that gun in case pa is off a field doing something. When that 11-year-old learns to use a gun, pa is right behind him —like right over his shoulder. It’s a dangerous weapon. He’s really not developmentally ready for all it entails. If you’re going to use computers, I strongly believe you should use PCs, desktops. That’s my first choice. If you saw my house, back when we had a house, we had three PCs in a row, and I sat right next to my kids. They couldn’t turn the monitor away from me. It wasn’t a laptop, they could disappear into the basement or anywhere, but I was right next to him the whole time. My son learned Adobe Audition. They played chess online. They did Khan Academy math and IXL math. My kids both have blogs. Now, my kids, they work online. Right now, Christine is running an online book club. A new business she started about two weeks ago where she has a bunch of kids read a book or first five chapters of a book, and she has a slide show, and she’s doing it over Zoom. You can’t keep them off the computer. It’s very hard, unless you want to go ultra-Amish or whatever. When they’re on it, they’re not on it with free-range. They’re not just googling randomly, they’re not watching cat videos, and you are in the room with them. It’s a must. The best is a desktop PC next to mom or dad. The second best is a laptop, but I don’t like those either. Then the iPad and the iPhone, they get to where you’re just playing with absolute fire. They can learn coding on a PC. There’s nothing that they need an iPhone or a tablet for that they can’t do on the computer.   [01:42:48] Ashley James: Now we have online as the best way to—especially because of all the libraries—I mean, I don’t know about every state in every country, but where I live, every library is closed right now for the foreseeable future. It was like until May 4th but we might extend it longer. They’ve been closed for well over a month. In some places in the world, we can’t just go take our children and go do homeschooling in libraries and in public, so the best resource for a lot of people is online. What subjects work best online? You talked about interacting with math, but you also just mentioned Khan Academy. You’ve mentioned, in the past, people can take music lessons online or play chess online. Of course, the parent is looking over the child. What should we do offline, and what are some really good online resources?   [01:43:53] Daniel Louzonis: Let me just tell you, math is good online in the sense that if your child filled out a worksheet—just say addition or multiplication—they could get all the answers wrong, and they can be doing it incorrectly. Someone has to manually correct it, and then come in and say, “Hey, you did it all wrong. Redo it.” If you do math online, the major benefit is what I call instantaneous negative feedback. You get corrected right away, like ooh, the buzzer goes off. That is definitely good.  If you have multiple kids, you kind of have to use—if you have five or six kids, they’re all at different levels—you can’t have one math class. Some of my drills, you can use simultaneously at different starting points, but you have to use the computer when you have a lot of kids. Math lends itself well towards that. Khan Academy is—anything that’s got Bill Gates money in it is always a little bit messed up. There are sections to skip and best practices. If you use it incorrectly you can end up thinking it’s stupid, but guess what, it’s free and it’s not stupid. It’s not fatally flawed. It’s just imperfect like everything else on this earth. I have almost all my students, except for my super high-level math genius students on Khan Academy. There’s no risk to using it. If you were a chess teacher, and you went and hired someone, and they met you, they would be constantly moving pieces and setting the board up back and forth. It’s very labor-intensive to create all sorts of positions to get the child to study or to think about what would happen here, or what’s the benefit, or the risk here. On a computer, they can preload all sorts of positions in. They can hit the forward button and the back button. Chess actually is way better. The teaching power of chess online is far superior to anything that could ever be done online. One-on-one instruction, not necessarily apps because I don’t really like Duolingo that much, but you can hire somebody overseas to teach your kids a foreign language very, very cheaply. Ten dollars an hour you could do really, really well. My brother hired a Ukrainian professor to teach him Ukrainian for something like $3.50 cents an hour. You’re not using it like ABCmouse. You’re using it for one-on-one lessons. I would even encourage parents to use it for research. How often does a kid ask you something and you say, “Well, let’s google it.” Google image is the coolest thing in the world for kids. I had them make up flashcards. You can go to Google Slides, and you just drag a picture of a huge rock—a quartz rock— and the next slide it says quartz. You can create your own flashcards. I actually had my kids blogging when they were 4 and 5 years old, and they were just sharing what they were learning. They had to Google one thing a day. You don’t need the apps. The library, we suffer from the closed libraries here too, but you probably have books in your house that they can read and that Brave can read. Everybody has books in their house or their neighbor has books in their house. You know what, not long ago, people used to have one or two books, and they used to read it over and over and over and over and over again. Real bibliophiles, which my kids are, they read the same books over and over and over and over again without any loss of enjoyment.  It’s like everything else, you got to make do with what you have. You’re camping for a little while. You can’t get to the libraries, and that does stink. Personally, I’m looking at my bookshelf right now. I have a lot of books on my bookshelf that I bought or someone gave me and I haven’t read yet. Just work through what you have. Resourcefulness, right? The confinement, there’s a virus, whatever you want to call it. This is a constraint. Even Jeff Bezos is a big believer in constraints. He’s like, “You got to have constraints around you so that you can invent your way out.”    [01:48:08] Ashley James: This. I love this. I love this because I read this amazing article about Dr. Seuss that he was challenged to write a book. I’m sorry. I don’t remember his actual name. His name isn’t actually Dr. Suess. He was challenged to write a book with I believe it was 50 words?   [01:48:32] Daniel Louzonis: Yes, you’re right.   [01:48:35] Ashley James: The 50 most common sight words for children and the constraints of that led him to write the number one bestseller kids book ever. He actually talked about how the constraint of being given 50 words, “Okay. Here’s the list of 50 words. Write a book.” And write a good book. That actually improved his creativity. That in constraint—so imagine if I were to only give you two colors. I said, “Okay, paint a masterpiece. Here are two colors.” If I give you a constraint, and I love these challenges when chefs are given a mystery box. There are only five ingredients. “Make a three-course meal with these five ingredients.” I love that. I do that all the time in the kitchen. It’s my favorite thing, I love opening the fridge, and grabbing some ingredients, and just making a totally new dish with mystery ingredients. “What’s about to go bad that I need to cook?” Give someone constraints and it can improve their creativity. That’s the thing though that I find that parents—and maybe I’m experiencing also—is that we don’t have any constraint. As a homeschooling parent, we’re left with this endless possibility. I’m in this overwhelm—we have this huge miasma of just there are so many things we could choose from. We could choose all these apps, all these things online, all these things offline. You google homeschooling kit or whatever and you could buy hundreds of dollars-worth of different curriculums. There are just too many choices, which one’s the right one, which one’s right for my child, which one’s right for me as a parent? There isn’t a constraint necessarily.  With the COVID-19, we do have more of a constraint because I can’t go out and meet up with other homeschooling groups in person and also go to the library. I think we have too many choices and that leaves us feeling like the grass is always greener. No matter what I choose, there’s probably a better program out there. Am I doing this right? Could I be doing it better? I know that there’s sometimes this feeling that there’s too much. You have so much experience. You not only homeschooled your own children—who are doing phenomenally well—you’ve coached other families to homeschool and dial in their homeschooling. You’ve created a program to teach parents how to do it. You’ve created a package for the listeners. The link is going to be in the show notes of the podcast, einsteinblueprint.com/lth. That link is going to be in the show notes. Can you address this, this idea that there are so many choices? How do we know as parents we’re on the right track, we’re making the right choice? Should we do this free schooling, or should we go buy a curriculum somewhere? Should we go buy an online curriculum, or a physical curriculum where there are 20 books and textbooks mailed to us? I’ve seen this. You join a few homeschooling Facebook groups and there’s always some of them trying to sell their curriculum like this giant box. I’ve seen this, oh my gosh, this one parent had a room full—a room full of textbooks. They homeschooled all their kids and now, they’re selling all of them. It’s overwhelming. That might be out of date. Is that the right program to use? Maybe common core, not common core. We just end up having these millions of questions, which one’s the right program for us? I’m sure you’ve been asked this before.   [01:53:08] Daniel Louzonis: Sure. First of all, the book is Green Eggs and Ham the Dr. Seuss book.   [01:53:14] Ashley James: That was the first book I ever read, by the way. I remember it clicking. Remember when you were riding a bicycle, and you’re falling off, and falling off, and falling off, and then you remember that moment you got balance? I remember because I was a late bloomer. I was about seven years old. My husband was riding a bike at age three so he thinks it’s crazy that I couldn’t ride a bike until I was seven, but I had my training wheels on until I was seven because every time we took them off I just fall over, fall over, fall over. Then one day, I got balance and it just clicked. I went, “Oh, that’s what you wanted me to do,” and I never fell off a bike again.  The same with reading. It’s like I didn’t get it, I didn’t get it, it didn’t click, didn’t click. I was holding that book and all of a sudden everything fell into place, and I could read full sentences. I went from not knowing how to read to just everything clicked. I remember that moment. I was sitting in the car, we were on a two-hour drive up to the cottage, and I was holding the book, and it was a sunny day. It was a sunny morning on a Saturday morning, and everything clicked. I read that book. I was like, “Oh my gosh. Sam I am. I got it. I was so excited.  I’ve been looking back on my childhood analyzing it—now that I’m a parent, obviously, we do this. I now realize I wish my parents had given me more books and less TV. I was put in front of the TV so much as a child, and I wish I was put in front of a book because I loved reading.   [01:54:54] Daniel Louzonis: Let’s talk about that because I had the same parents that were just a couple years ahead of you. The TV was the iPhone of its time. My kids don’t understand this. If you missed a movie at the theater, you could never see it again. They would actually come back three years later. You’d see Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back comes back at the theater, so you couldn’t see it. The movie theater was magical, and the TV was limited. Then there’s this new thing called cable TV, and it had a couple of movie channels. They had this thing called Home Box Office, and they had the movie channel. You could actually see movies that you couldn’t see before.  Our parents, your mom and dad, my mom and dad, they were fascinated by this thing. It’s the iPhone of its time. They didn’t have any manual. They didn’t know that that color TV that started out with 32 cable channels was going to go to 57, and then 200, and 1000. They didn’t know that it was going to lead to obesity, and it was going to lead to bibliophobia, and it was also going to create distortive narratives about men and women, and what to expect in life, and defer to [inaudible 01:56:06]. They didn’t know. Technology is always disrupting society at the frontier, and nobody knows what the effect is. Let’s go into the curriculum question about what do you do in the face of all these options. When most people start homeschooling, they say, “I don’t know what to do. What do you do? What do you do?” That’s a little bit of a joke where it rapidly becomes a joke because pretty soon they get in there and they said, “There are all these great things I want to do, I don’t know what to cut out. I don’t know what to cut out.” The reality is that when we’re 12 years into our home school here, we have to cut out some really, really important good things—carefully chosen things—in order to do anything new. That’s just how it goes. It’s an embarrassment of riches on some levels, but it’s just also very hard. I said to my son at one point, “All right. No more hour a day on the piano. You’re down to a half an hour.” I’m like literally cutting him down on the piano, but that’s the type of real currency and leverage that you have to play with once you get going. Pinterest is what I call fake homeschooling. You see all these pictures of these beautiful homes and no mess in the background. That is not a successful or a real homeschool. That is staged, and I understand why people do it, the same reason anybody stages anything on deep-seated insecurity, marketing, whatever, fear of what other people think of them, or some type of conformity, “This is what it’s supposed to look like.” No. You try to create this beautiful homeschooled that’s ripped from Pinterest, I guarantee you that it will stress you out. You will never feel like you’re doing it right, and it will be contrived. It won’t be real.  What you’re doing with Brave, and having a real conversation, and doing experiments, that’s homeschooling. That’s homeschooling at its absolute best. So no, stop thinking the grass is greener, the homeschool is better somewhere else. It’s easy for me to say, “Stop looking around,” but practically, what you want to do is you want to generate a lot of self-confidence and a lot of security in what you’re doing. There are a couple of ways to do that. So that when you look around there and you look at Pinterest— I look at Pinterest and it doesn’t move me because I know that it’s actually not true, and not real, and those kids aren’t on a steeper track than mine as if it’s a competition in the first place. How can you get that confidence?  This is why I strongly advise parents to get their kids accelerate with reading and math right away. Nothing gives a kid self-confidence, and nothing gives a parent self-confidence like seeing their kid go vertical very, very quickly. That is something that the parent—that’s confidence that the parents can build on. Then people are meeting your kids and they’re like, “Whoa, whoa. What am I doing wrong? What are you doing? Can you help me?” Be more aggressive with what you’re doing. That will help you worry less about what everyone else is doing in any field.  Look, in terms of buying a curriculum, everyone, when they start at homeschooling, says, “I need a curriculum. I need a curriculum. I need a curriculum.” The reality is you don’t. You need a library card, and a little bit of discipline, and you need a philosophy. You need an understanding of what education is, what it’s not, what your goals are, and then it’s very simple. When I meet with coaching clients I said, “Well, what are your goals? We’re not going to talk about math, or reading, or college, or anything without having some goals. What are your goals?” A lot of people just don’t have any goals.  My goal, when we started out, was raising academically accelerated kids. Now, they evolved. At some point, I said, “You know what, I want to raise extremely well-rounded kids.” Then they evolved again, and I said, “You know what, I want to raise kids who are entrepreneurs. This way that they have maximum time and money leverage in their life, and so that they can really do as much as they can possibly do.” Your goals will evolve, but you’ve got to have goals. You have to set your own agenda. You can’t look at what everyone else is doing. No matter what that boxed curriculum says, no matter what those testimonials say, they never work.  I call them curriculum hoppers. People would rather buy a curriculum than actually read a homeschooling book and learn about the principles of effective homeschooling. They would rather buy a curriculum than sit down with mom, and dad, and the kids, and say, “Well, what are our goals? What are we afraid of? What do we want to do? Where do we want to go?” They’d rather just buy something as almost like a placeholder, as almost like fake work—fake effort. People do the same thing with fitness, “Oh, I’m going to join a gym. I’m going to buy $100 Lululemon pants. I’m going to buy Peloton bike.” We’ve got a lot of Peloton bikes coming into my building here in the past couple of weeks.  At its root, all education is self-education. It’s all going to come down to reading, writing, and arithmetic. It’s all going to come down to what Albert Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge. Everyone wants to complicate things. Usually, when people complicate things, that’s the lazy way out—saying something is complicated. No, it’s not complicated, and you don’t have to make it complicated. Pinterest, you can pull that up and you can definitely feel inadequate, or you can feel like you’re going down the wrong path, but you have to judge people by their results. This is what I talked about earlier with these experts and these doctors.  Who do you want to take fitness advice from? From somebody who used to be hurt, and is now 50 years old, and ripped, and overcame all sorts of problems, or do you want to take exercise advice from some doctor who’s never run a quarter marathon? You have to look at the results. It’s very, very important to have models to see, “Hey, look at this family over here. Look at how well-behaved those kids are. Look at how,” if they’re religious, if they got God first, “I want a family like that. Look at these kids over here. Look at how helpful they are around the house. Look at how advanced this one is in math. Look at how advanced these people are with getting their kids selling lemonade on the street and hustling and grinding. I want that.”  Pick and choose, find people that have achieved what you want manifest, and then just plug into them. That’s the whole philosophy behind having mentors and role models. It’s way, way more effective than trying to purchase stuff, right? It’s hard to do. You could just go to my website. All these people have told me, “I wish I met you 10 years ago. I wish I met you 10 years ago.” I hear it all the time. “Had I known that you could be homeschooling that way I would have done it five years ago, but I didn’t meet you.”  Look, I had nobody at all to guide me. Google was very underdeveloped 12 years ago. A lot of homeschooling parents don’t put what they’re doing out on the web, they don’t share it, and so you don’t even know. You can’t even plug into them, but now, there are lots and lots of people out there homeschooling and sharing. Just find the ones who have teenage kids, who are college kids, and plug into them. Ask them for advice. Read their books. You’re better off as a homeschooling parent reading a book on the philosophy of homeschooling than you are at buying any ABCmouse, or math curriculum, or complete curriculum. That’s the ultimate magic pill. “I’m going to buy a complete curriculum for my kids with a day planner and this and that. We’re going to check all the boxes and all the subjects.”  It doesn’t work. Ideally, as a homeschooling parent, you will cobble together a curriculum. You will have a philosophy, you will have goals. You will have do’s and don’ts, you will have habits, you will have role models just the same way if you’re running a business. It’s the same success. The success principles are the same whether you’re talking about trying to run for a marathon, training for the Olympics, run a business, or run a family. You have to use eclectic resources.  The more work you do on it, the more work you do in terms of gathering research, in terms of reading books, in terms of experimenting, the more work you do on your own mind, and unpacking the mistakes you made, the mistakes our parents made, the regrets that we have. The more work you do on yourself—in research in general—that’s all leverage for what you can do with your kids. That’ll give you confidence and clarity on what you’re doing. If you’re suffering from confidence, you’re suffering in confidence or a little low on that, it’s because you’re not getting the results that automatically give you confidence. Then, it comes down to like, “All right. Well, how can we improve our tactics?” Not what else can we buy. Is that a good enough answer or scratching the surface?     [02:05:19] Ashley James: Yeah. I like it. I really, really like it. I like it. You mentor people and you also developed a program. When listeners go to einsteinblueprint.com/lth, tell us a bit about the different programs that you offer so that they can understand the resources that you provide.   [02:05:39] Daniel Louzonis: Okay. Well, I have a homeschooling consultation, which if you consult with me for an hour and you buy that, I give you basically the skeleton—the overview—of I think I have about five or six hours-worth of videos and content. I just basically tell you everything that I’ve done. That’s at the lower level. I have that introduction to homeschooling, but it’s still powerful because more than half the people who buy it have been homeschooling already. They get stuck. They hit an obstacle. They hit a ceiling. Homeschooling is like marriage, it should get better every year, you should get closer to your spouse every year. If it’s not, you’ve got leakage. You’ve got dangerous, dangerous leakage.  I also have my overall—my flagship product—is called the Einstein Blueprint. It’s not the Dan blueprint, it’s the Einstein Blueprint. It’s what would the ideal education look like? Well, what did Oprah Winfrey say about what was key to her success? What does Abraham Lincoln, what wisdom has he bequeathed to us? Einstein, da Vinci, Michelangelo. The whole point of the Einstein Blueprint, it’s broken down into 116 modules, is reverse engineering extreme success. That’s it.  What does Jeff Bezos say about writing and about constraints? Things we touched on. How can you incorporate that into the education of your children? Literally, within the Einstein Blueprint, we have our kids brainwashed, inculcated in what did Tony Robbins say about momentum? “People who succeed have momentum.” If you say to your 11-year-old kid, “People who succeed, blank.” Brave knows what xanthan gum is and all this other stuff, you want him to know that he needs to have momentum in whatever he’s doing in life. You want his operating system, you want him to be pre-programmed with all the wisdom of all the most successful people so that he can accelerate, he is going to be totally hyper-accelerating on every front. Again, it’s not the Dan blueprint, it’s not even what I did with my own kids because quite honestly, I didn’t know this stuff when I was flying by the seat of my pants with my own kids. I’ve learned this over the years, and through copious research, and extensive work with a lot of families. All sorts of economic and financial, I mean, I’ve had billionaires that I work with, and I’ve had single moms. Guess what, the single moms do a better job, you might suspect. It’s not money that people need. It’s grit. It’s really constraints. It’s focus. I’ve worked with a lot of people. My Einstein Blueprint, it’s powerful stuff. I read it. Even though I’ve been doing this for years and years and years, I read my own blueprint. I go back constantly to my own blueprint, to my own like—I wouldn’t say ten commandments because there’s about 116 of them—but that’s what I use on an everyday basis. Someone asked me, “Why is there so much personal development for the parents in the Einstein Blueprint?” Well, parents are teaching their kids. More is caught than taught. Whether you’re homeschooling or not, you’re setting an example. You’re letting the technology in the house. You have the expectations. Honestly, we know a lot of parents who spend more time helping their kids with homework than some homeschooling parents spend with their kids overall.  Look, your moms and dads are responsible for their kids’ outcome no matter how bad the teacher is, how bad the school district is, or Common Core, or whatever. Principally and ultimately, we’ve been given these children, and we have a responsibility to give them more opportunities than we were given. I think it’s a very exciting thing. A lot of people meet me and they get depressed. I overwhelm them. Well, yeah. This is a big deal. At the intersection of the big three categories—the big three marketing categories: money, relationships, and health. They tell you, “Oh, pick a category, and then pick a niche within a niche. Don’t try to do it all.” Guess what, if it was a Venn diagram, at the intersection of money, relationships, and health, at the very intersection would be education. This is where the Einstein Blueprint resides. We cover everything.  Everything that we have and don’t have, everything we can do, can’t do, haven’t done it, we can all trace it back to something that we learned, or didn’t learn, or were misinformed about. Education is everything. Lost in all these complaints about common core, and in vaccines, in college, the price of college, and what everyone else is doing, lost in all that is the sheer power, the atomic, like nuclear, power of what education can do for kids. What’ll happen if they don’t learn? If they become lobotomized in any way, shape, or form.   [02:10:43] Ashley James: You had mentioned in our past interview—definitely recommend listeners check out if they’re interested in homeschooling or improving their homeschooling—episode 258. You said that you experience this and then everyone that you coach experiences this. Every year you do homeschooling it gets easier. You’re less and less hands-on. A four-year-old obviously needs your undivided attention, although you can leave them alone with a project. A two-year-old definitely needs your undivided attention when they’re learning math, and writing, and stuff like that.  A six-year-old who’s reading on their own, you can hand them something to do, teach them something new, hand them something to do, they can go, like you said, write a blog, they can make a slideshow, they can read a book, they can write a book, they can build a science project, whatever. They’re more independent. You obviously are monitoring them especially, like you said, if they’re on a computer and they have access to the internet, they should absolutely be monitored. You just find though that as they get older and every year that you do homeschooling—and you should do homeschooling even during the summer, even on weekends. It should be a 365-day thing that you don’t take breaks from, but you also don’t have to do it six or nine hours a day.  If you do it two hours a day every day until they move out of the house, until they’re at the point where they’re old enough to move out, they’ve actually gotten an accelerated education because you don’t have to spend those two and a half months, like you mentioned, before catching up from the summer. They accelerate much faster because it’s an immersion. Every year that you do homeschooling, it’s less and less hands-on as the parent because they can pick stuff up and go do it by themselves like go read that book over there, good do that project.  I think the fear for some parents is, “Well, I don’t have the time to do that because I work from home now. I can’t spend six hours a day with the children. I can’t spend six hours a day with each child.” Before someone even gets into homeschooling, they put up a brick wall. “I can’t do it because. I can’t do it because I don’t have money. I can’t because I don’t have enough time. I can’t do it because I don’t think it’s going to work for me.” They come up with these limitations, but now, we’re at the point where they have to do it, they literally have to do it. That’s why they’re calling it crisis schooling. People have to do the homeschooling either from mandatory vaccine laws, or from the COVID-19, or for other reasons. They’re at this point where this restriction has been placed upon them will actually increase their creativity. They’re going to start problem-solving. The light at the end of the tunnel is that the first year is probably the hardest, and which is what you expressed in our last interview. The first year or two is the hardest, and if you buckle down and get disciplined, especially learning from the Einstein Blueprint, which I love your program. I love the personal growth in the program and the discipline.  If we as parents buckle down with the principles you have in your program, if we buckle down now—it’s the marshmallow test. It’s the emotional intelligence for the future because if we can really invest now for the first one or two years of homeschooling, then it actually gets easier, and easier, and easier because we’re handing off the education to the child. Because a child is able to take on more, and more, and more, and more by themselves.  Like you said, right now as we’re having this interview, your children are in their rooms doing their own entrepreneurial homeschooling programs. You don’t have to stand over your child for six hours a day per child to do your homeschooling. How much time would you say you actually are with your children instructing them on homeschooling in any given day?   [02:15:15] Daniel Louzonis: Right now, it’s 4:49 PM and I haven’t done anything with the kids. John taught a chess class this morning. He produced and edited a podcast for one of his clients. My daughter is actually not in the other room. She’s at my wife’s office, on the 42nd floor, across from my wife. While my wife is working, she is doing her work—her math, and she’s running her book club. I texted her and I said, “Don’t come home. I’ve got an interview here.” I haven’t spent a minute with them. Now, we have expectations. We say, “You’ve got to have four hours of math done this week for Christine, and John has books to read.” He has deadlines with his clients. He has clients that he actually has to answer to as well.  We have structure, but the structure is like say you had a business and you have the business, and systems, and a virtual assistant, and all sorts of processes in place. The goal is not for mom to go from teaching her 3-year-old phonics to teaching her 18-year-old whatever. The goal is to teach him to fish. Like I said, you want them reading because when you can throw books at them—big, ugly, nasty, books written in Old English, or written in science, or about things they don’t even want to read, if they can read, you can just throw a book to them. Just to give you an example, we don’t teach history or science, we just throw books at the kids—book, after book, after book, after book. It’s a far superior education—science and history education—than anything you’d get with a common core textbook, and questions at the end, and quizzes, and the stress of quizzes and tests. You want to get it running on autopilot, and this is why these single moms and stuff—these people, they have constraints on them—they do a good job because they crack a whip and they say, “Look, you got to do it. I got to work, you got to work.” There’s nobody lounging around. The goal is to unlock their full potential, but also, the sign that it gets—I wouldn’t say it’s easier every year because I think life, in general, gets more complicated every year. As we age, we thought it looks so simple back when we were 25 and doing one-and-a-half things. Homeschooling is not—going back to the limiting beliefs—people think it’s a lot of work upfront. It can be, and even if it was, it’s way worth it, right? My kids are not going to college so that’s going to save me whatever college is. It’s almost $600,000. Between the two of them, we would have to earn $1 million in income to pay for them to go to college to learn stuff that’s irrelevant. We have the confidence to not send him. We have the option to not send them. I could have been earning more money when my son was four or five if I did something else, but I was investing just the same way you’re investing in Brave when you have long conversations with them even if you’re tired. Homeschooling parents are investing in their kids early. You don’t want to buy Microsoft in the year 2020, you want to invest in Microsoft in 1992. You need to invest early. Starting early is one of the core components of the Einstein Blueprint. It’s a concept that doesn’t go away. I’m going to introduce logarithms to kids who are eight, nine years old. Why? Because when they learn when they’re 15 on Monday what a logarithm is and have a test on Friday on logarithms, it’s extremely stressful. They could have been introduced to that concept way back when. Kids can learn about marketing, and the stock market, they can learn about social intelligence, and shaking hands, and making eye contact, and writing thank-you notes. They can learn all these like powerful tactics early. We’re just pulling everything forward. Like I said, instead of waiting until someone’s 45 years old and burnt out in the corporate world, I’m going to go find Tony Robbins. Go look at Tony Robbins. You’ll see all sorts of bald people in the audience, which is awesome that they’re still learning, but you should also see kids there because there’s no age minimum. We’re just accelerating the learning curve. Get them to travel sooner, get them to learn about xanthan gum sooner, and all other things, and is there sugar in that, huge, huge things. I didn’t know how to read a food label until I was in my 20s. I didn’t even think they had food labels until my future wife pointed out to me. I still didn’t know what it meant. I didn’t know what it was.   [2:20:05] Ashley James: My husband keeps asking me to make a course on how to read food labels, and I keep saying, “Everyone knows how to read this.” He’s like, “No, they really don’t.” You’re just affirming that I really should just sit down, and make a course, and teach people how to read labels because I guess I just assumed that everyone is a food detective like I am. It’s really important. If you’re going to eat processed food, you need to know what’s in the processed food. Don’t put your head in the sand, man. That’s like every molecule that goes into your mouth is building healthy cells or cancer cells. As far as I’m concerned, reading a food label is detecting whether there’s cyanide in the food like. Seriously, it’s that important to me. My husband jokes because I’ll go into the grocery store for one item, and I come out half an hour later. He’s like, “What took you so long?” If he’s in the car like our son would be taking a nap, and he’d have to stay in the car because we don’t trust to leave our son alone napping in the car while we go inside. He would just be like, “Oh, you read the labels.” It’s true. If I go to the grocery store, and I’m buying anything that’s just one ingredient like there’s broccoli, I’m going to read the labels. To me, it just makes so much sense, but to other people, it doesn’t even occur to them. You have that same mindset around homeschooling. It’s just like it’s second nature. It’s like you just wake up and start breathing oxygen. It’s just like you said, the fish doesn’t even question water, but for other people, it’s very foreign. It’s very, very foreign this idea of homeschooling. I love your program because you get into the mindset because the first thing we got to do is handle the mindset. You keep hedging Tony Robbins. I was surprised to find out some people don’t know who Tony Robbins is. He is a personal growth guru, a great guy. I do recommend following him. He has a podcast too and lots of YouTube videos and stuff out there. Some of his stuff though—he swears or brings up sexual references, so I wouldn’t say it’s PG. You’d have to watch it first before your children can watch it. He does that for shock effect to break up someone’s pattern. If they’re stuck neurologically in a victim state, he’ll say something shocking to do a break state, which neurologically interrupts the synapses so that we can start to reprogram the person. They stop going to that old problem and start actually coming out of it neurologically into a new solution. It’s called the behavioral pattern interrupt, and it’s part of a neurolinguistic programming method. Unfortunately, a lot of times, he uses foul language, or sexual references or things that can really—it’s a shock-and-awe effect. Of course, there are lots of videos where he’s PG, but you have to monitor first before children can watch it. This has been wonderful having you on the show. You mentioned that we could have a 24-hour marathon. I’m pretty sure we could easily go six hours without blinking. Einsteinblueprint.com/lth. You’re creating a special page for the listeners. I want you guys to go there and check it out. You have these wonderful resources. You’re very passionate. You’re, obviously, well-educated and well-versed in this subject. For parents who want to improve their homeschooling and for parents who are now stuck homeschooling because of the world events—the current world events—you really are going to help cut through so much of the BS. I’m watching some of my friends sit back and wait for the public school system to come up with an online way to distance educate the children. It’s very tedious and slow. They’re trying to do Zoom calls with the children. They’re trying to implement something. It’s up to each state to come up with a system. For the children who are like in Washington State had to leave school, the children are not going to get the last half of this school year. If we just sit back and wait for the public school system to come up with a way to handle it, it is like the Homer Simpson effect. It’s like the lowest common denominator. We’re just sitting and waiting to dumb ourselves down to the lowest common denominator. We can’t leave our children and leave our children’s futures up to this broken system. That’s why I love the work you do because you’re going to make it so easy for us. We don’t have to get overwhelmed with the millions of homeschooling programs and curriculums out there. Like you said, we can get really distracted by all those online programs, or just throwing our children in front of a tablet. “Here, learn whatever Khan Academy on this.” We need to get really clear on our goals, on our philosophy, and create a schedule that we do every day with our children in a way that is motivating and encouraging, in a way that enriches them and strengthens our relationship with them. We encourage them as they grow, it will motivate the whole family. The work that you do at einsteinblueprint.com allows us to cut through a lot of the chaos and dial in the right program for the individual family. You have this program that we can do as parents, and then you also do coaching with children, and you have, like you said, about five hours of educational videos as well. You’re going to compile all of that with a special for the Learn True Health listeners when they go to Einsteinblueprint.com/lth. Daniel, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show. I know we touched on a lot of stuff, and I want listeners to follow you. Your kids do stuff too, which I love. I love following your kids. Your son produces podcasts for clients. Your daughter has a book club for children. How can listeners plug into what your children are doing as well?    [2:27:28] Daniel Louzonis: If they listen to my podcast the Einstein Blueprint podcast, I’m always talking about and sharing the links for those. John has a podcast right now. It’s the second podcast. It’s called the kids get rich podcast. It’s very good. We’re always letting people know what we can do to help them. We’ll put a link to it on your LTH page. One thing I didn’t mention is I do have a dedicated math program, which is nearly 100 hours of me teaching math to my students—one-on-one instruction. It has all the drills I use, and it basically is an extremely low price. We’ll have a link to that. We call that 100x math program. We’ll have that because math is a pain point, and everybody needs it. I haven’t met anybody who doesn’t need my math program. We’ll have a link to that. It’s currently closed, but we’ll put a link for your listeners to get in on that. It’d be at a negligible cost too.   [02:28:27] Ashley James: They can’t buy it if they go to your website, but if they go to Einsteinblueprint.com/lth, they’ll be able to get it?   [02:28:34] Daniel Louzonis: Yes. I closed it. I launched it. I always launch things at a very low price, and then I build them up, and work intimately with the group that’s there, and then I add more value, and I raise the prices. But yeah, they can get in on that at the price that I launched today, which is very negligible. It’s like $80 a year or something like that. We’ll have a link to that. The last thing that I want to say is—the reason this is such a big deal—parenting—when we were in high school or whatever, it was popularity, it was sports, it was all these things going on, boyfriends and girlfriends. But right now, at this stage of our life, our past—our entire past—our whole present, and also our incoming future, it’s all wrapped up in our kids. This is why it’s such a big deal. There’s an expression, “No other success can compensate for failure in the home.” I believe it was David O. McKay. He’s a Mormon who said it. I’ll say it again, “No other success can compensate for failure in the home.”  We could do all these wonderful things, and have a great marriage, and whatever, but if our kids are going to struggle in this world, it’s going to haunt us to our last days. At the same time, being a parent and having kids, it sheds a light on so much of what went wrong, or let’s call it our imperfect past. All these things come to the fore. I hope that none of your listeners are getting stressed out by anything that we’re talking about here. We’re talking about it with such passion and with such certainty because it’s so, so critical. It’s not, like Ashley said, to condemn or to shame anyone. If you saw me when I was in my—I call it—deformative years, I was very far off course. This is the wonderful thing about human potential and about life is that we can break bad habits, that we can tap into our inner genius. I never thought I was creative for a minute my whole life. Now I have more ideas, more creative self-confidence than I even know what to do with. I grew up in a box.  This is an exciting thing. Having kids and being in control, being able to listen to a podcast is something that our parents couldn’t do. Having the internet, being able to buy things on Amazon Prime, being able to work from home. We are so blessed in this day and age to do so many things. It’s only right that we channel all these assets into our kids today, this very minute.   02:31:15] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much, Daniel. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show. I know you’re also active in our Facebook group, Learn True Health Facebook group. If any listeners have any questions for Daniel about his programs, they could ask it in the Facebook group. I’m sure we could have a discussion about it there. Of course, we can go to einsteinblueprint.com/lth. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show again. I can’t wait to see what the future holds, especially I love following your children. I love watching their success because it gives us hope that our younger children are going to be as awesome as your kids are because you gave them such a wonderful opportunity of homeschooling. Now, they’re able to grow in such a beautiful way, that they’re not constrained. I love what you do. I love what your children are doing. I’m really excited to see how it grows over the years. Please, please come back on the show every few years and continue to teach and share with us.   [02:32:21] Daniel Louzonis: I look forward to that. Thank you for having me.     Get Connected With Daniel Louzonis! Official Website Facebook Twitter Youtube Linkedin Recommended Reading by Daniel Louzonis The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto

IT'S HERE! Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen Use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Check out IIN and get a free module: LearnTrueHealth.com/coaching Join the Facebook group: LearnTrueHealth.com/group   Messages from Eric Thorton on COVID-19 https://www.learntruehealth.com/messages-eric-thorton-covid-19   Highlights: We need healers of all types Heal our heart chakra issue to fight the virus The immune system doesn’t work right when we have fear and anxiety Eat right and support community Fear is weak, and love is strong   Fear and anxiety have weakened our heart chakra over the years. When we have a weakened heart chakra, we have a lower immune system, and it’s harder for us to fight diseases. Eric Thorton is back on the show with us to help us understand how a weakened heart chakra relates to COVID-19 and how to get our heart chakra back in balance. He also tells us what we should do to eliminate the COVID-19 virus.   [00:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 424. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Eric Thorton. This is your ninth time being on the show. I’m pretty sure this is your ninth time.   [00:00:23] Eric Thorton: Yeah, I think it is. It’s pretty amazing. I get a lot of great feedback from people too. I enjoy doing it. The guides have a lot to say, and that applies to us particularly right now.   [00:00:40] Ashley James: Right, right. So for listeners who are tuning in for the first time and haven’t heard our past eight other episodes with Eric Thorton, Eric is an exorcist. He was born with the ability to talk to and see—communicate with angels and guides. He is a spiritual—it’s like a spiritual health coach. I’m a health coach, you’re a spiritual health coach.   [00:01:09] Eric Thorton: That’s right, and a healer.   [00:01:12] Ashley James: Right, yes. I like to say on the show, “I’m the biggest open-minded skeptic.” I’m like okay anything. I could just keep my mind wide open, why not? Why not just be open-minded, but I’m also very skeptical. Our first interview was really cool, but there’s the back of my mind going, “Well, maybe it’s just him saying he’s doing this stuff.” My husband had a session with you before I had a session, right? My husband was going through something and so he said, “Can I go first?” I’m like, “Okay. So I dropped my husband off, he works with you for a few hours, and I came and picked him up. His voice dropped like two octaves. It was really neat. It was very interesting. He was in constant background anxiety, constant fear, constant worry was running in his body at all times. His voice was a little high. The things you guys worked on spiritually and energetically turned off the stress response and it healed. Whatever you did that was like, I don’t know, six months ago, eight months ago, something like that. He had a great first session. Then I had my session with you, and I had an outstanding totally undeniably amazing session. Really, really, really got that the work that you do is real. I had first-hand experience of it several times. Since then, my husband and I have worked with you several times, and you’ve also worked with several of our best friends. They have all had great experiences with you. This is something that not every therapist is meant for every person.   [00:03:13] Eric Thorton: Correct.   [00:03:15] Ashley James: That’s why you do an intake at the beginning when you work with people, and you talk to the guides, and talk to their guides, and see if it’s a good match. The work that you do is so broad because you’re working on emotional, mental, spiritual, physical issues on a different plane of existence that we’re used to handling things on. It’s the unseen, but we definitely have an effect. We can feel it. Sometimes we can hear it. I’ve talked about that in my past interviews. We can feel it.   [00:03:49] Eric Thorton: Right, it’s also helped past lives and how past lives affect us too. It gives us stressors and makes us vulnerable to take you on other people’s words, energies, thought forms, etc. We work on a very different level than most healers. I’m not invalidating anyone here. It’s just the levels we work on are different. We need healers of all types. It takes a village. I am very, very open-minded and encourage everybody to, you got a problem, find your village. If I’m a part of it, great. If I’m not, that’s fine too. Sometimes my job is to unlock one little key in someone. They may not be really happy with the session, but then they go on to another healer and it works.   [00:04:54] Ashley James: Because you untrapped things, you got things moving. You removed blockages that were stopping them, and then other things can work. My son all of a sudden developed some very weird allergies out of nowhere. I asked you to check on him and you received the information that he had activated some trauma from a past life, and it made total sense as to what he was experiencing now. We were able to work on that for him. I’ve been taking him to doctor after doctor after doctor, and of course, these doctors are looking at what medication—either a natural medication like homeopathy, and what herbs, and what vitamins can we give him, what things can we do with his diet? Then an MD is like, “What drug can we give him?” Of course, we want to obviously look at physical health on the physical plane. It’s not resolving if the root cause is in the spiritual and energetic realm. You’ve mentioned before on the show is that—for thousands and thousands of thousands of years—we used to have healers like you in every village—the shaman, or the priest, or the energy healer. In the last 500 years, it’s really been suppressed. Our power’s been taken away. Now, the healers are starting to pop back up because information is free now. We’re not suppressed like we were 100 years ago. Information is free.   [00:06:41] Eric Thorton: In our country, be careful. We got to remember that. It is in our country. We still have a lot of persecution and things in our country. The beautiful part is, science has helped us in many ways. It has taken us from burning people at the stake because a cow or a series of animals had mad cow disease or something that they didn’t know. There were these tiny microscopic bacteria so they blamed the person and called him a witch or something like that. It’s taken the mystical out of our lives, and so we can actually get to healing, and get to understanding, and full understanding of what’s going on the planet—or a much fuller understanding—so that we can look at it as a whole. Where we go—I feel we go wrong—as a race is we try to say ours is the only way. Western medicine, it’s only this way. Naturopathic, it’s only this way, etc. I’m here to say, “No, it’s all of it. There are benefits to all of it.” If you have a block in any of them—let’s say you’re allergic to a medication that a Western medicine person can’t give you, it isn’t going to work. You’re allergic to it. If you got something that’s causing you to be allergic to it that’s energetic and we remove it, all of a sudden the medication works. That goes for Naturopathic, that goes for acupuncture, Reiki, on and on and on, all modalities. That’s why I’m very much encouraged all kinds of village to help people heal. Maybe with your son, us removing that block made it so his body can heal, can look at it in a different way, and the Naturopath can help him where maybe they couldn’t have before. He was young so hopefully, we were able to reduce his allergies quite quickly, but like I said, I haven’t talked to you about that until now. Anyway, there are many, many things that go into our daily lives. It is not one single modality. When I’m talking, like today, I sometimes will use information quoting somebody, but most of it’s coming from my guides. I quantify that. I do not diagnose, I do not claim to know the whole truth in any way, shape, or form. These are ideas that I get from my guides. The work seems to be proven out by science or an end results, that’s what I like. Like with what’s going on today, there are many, many reasons energetically why we are weak and susceptible to the COVID-19 virus. There are many reasons. Today, I want to like to discuss a few of those.   [00:10:06] Ashley James: Sure, sure. There are people on both sides of the fence right now. In terms of the COVID-19, there are people who are demanding that our rights be taken away, that we have more restrictions on us, that we should become even stricter to force people to stay at home nationwide and in other countries as well. There are people who want martial law essentially because we have to stop the spread. There’s this school of thought, and then there’s another set of people who are upset that our rights are being taken away. That no one’s protesting that, and they believe that this is hurting more people than saving people by forcing people to stay home and shutting down businesses. We have both sides, right? Then you see there are so many articles out there with opposing views, with information that conflicts itself. Some say that the common flu, influenza—Influenza A, whatever influenza it is—more people die each year of that. “Why don’t we take these kinds of measures for influenza if more people die of that than the coronavirus?” That’s what they’re saying, and then other people are saying, “Well, look at the rate at which it spreads. It’s much, much, much faster.” I think it’s like almost 10% more, but they’re showing that you’re much more likely to be infected by the coronavirus. It spreads quicker, it has a higher death rate, but the numbers—the problem is—there’s not enough testing. There’s definitely not enough testing. Studies today or articles written by doctors today talking about how they believe—and this was like in Yahoo News or something, this is mainstream. This isn’t just someone somewhere saying this in a blog. There’s a belief that millions of people have had it, and are already immune to it, and this has actually been around a lot longer—the COVID-19 has been around a lot longer. Anyway, there’s so much opposing information. I don’t necessarily want to say disinformation because I think that there’s a lot of people trying to pull together very quickly, because this is happening very fast. It was March 8 in the state of Washington, all of the bars and restaurants were shut down. This is just a few weeks ago that my state was starting to take action. The government was starting to implement actions, so things were starting to crack down and get serious just a few weeks ago. We’re scrambling to try to make sense of the numbers because the death rates, Italy being the highest, something like 9% now, I just read in an article, whereas a few days ago they were saying it was 4% death rate. If we’re not interesting enough people, we’re not testing, we’re only testing the people who are sick. What if millions or more people actually had it and just didn’t have it so it wasn’t really severe? Again, we want every death to be prevented. I’m not saying that we should just all go about our business. The point is that lots of information, lots of conflict, and it’s a stressor. Again, because society has something to fight about and to shame each other for. One of my friends is really afraid to leave her house and go for a walk because she doesn’t want her neighbors to be angry at her because people are actually being angry at each other for being outside. You are not going to spread the virus if you’re going for a walk. That’s not how it works. You’re going for a walk in nature, you’re in sunlight, that’s actually recommended. The misinformation, people are taking it to the extreme. What I’d like is just to cover, gain some clarity. What information have you received or can you receive from your guides, from angels, from the spiritual realm that can help us to understand. What could we do? What could we do to create the Goldilocks effect? Should we all stay in our homes? Is this something we should be really worried about? Is this going to blow over like the H1N1, and Zika, and all those other ones where it gets really big and then blows away? Is it worse than we’re thinking, or is it not as bad as we’re thinking? What information are you receiving from the spiritual realm?   [00:15:37] Eric Thorton: I’m working with a number of people that have been exposed but not have it. Some people have it. The information I get from the guides is the reason this virus has taken such a large hold—and it is real. We do need to take care, but we need to not panic. The reason we’re panicking and in ego is because of the years we’ve had of heart chakra issues. This is what the guides have pointed out very clearly to me—a number of times with a number of different guides too—is for the last three and a half years, we have had a tremendous amount of political unrest. I’m not siding with either side—both sides in our country have problems—but there has been so much political unrest. We were through 9/11, which directly affected the heart chakras. We were through the 2007-2008 crash, which directly affected our safety which affects our heart chakras. Now, remember, the heart chakra concludes the lungs. We go through these cycles where we are informed, misinformed, things like that through the news media through our own interpretations of what is being said out there. That affects us and give us anxiety. Remember, anxiety is in the heart chakra. After this three and a half, four years of this, our heart chakras are like with any chakra—if it was affected that much—the physical tissue within that chakra becomes weaker. We’ve had this political unrest for all these years. I don’t care which side of the aisle you’re on, you got the political unrest, so our heart chakras are weak. Any virus would affect our lungs very easily. Because we’ve been under this stress and this anxiety, it hasn’t led up. Now we’re in the middle of a political campaign, and all this crap that’s coming out in that—and excuse me I’m using word crap loosely here.   [00:18:13] Ashley James: It’s a technical term.   [00:18:16] Eric Thorton: It’s a technical term describing a whole lot of things that I don’t need to discuss right now, right? It’s their agendas, and it keeps us all in turmoil, and then this hits. It’s not a man-made virus. The coronavirus has the CDC it’s very clear that it’s been in animals in the United States for the last 20 years. It started transferring—just as though it’s what the CDC said—and it was proven out by what’s occurred, which I’m just going to go quickly with this. That it started to transfer from animal to human. That’s generally not a problem—at least through history. In history, you have an animal that’s sick, it dies. We try to keep the animal alive, we keep them in herds, the disease spreads within their herds because we eat meat. Animal husbandry is what keeps the animals together, which keeps viruses together, which builds the viruses within the animals. That also includes parasites which is something else we’ll talk about later as well, other diseases. The virus has been there just like every other virus we’ve ever had. Neanderthal Homo Erectus had no viruses. They had bacterial infections from the earth things like that, but they had no viruses. They died from bacteria from getting cuts just like a leopard would or a giraffe. If they got a big cut, they would from the abscess, or die from malnutrition, or starvation because they couldn’t get food at the time. That’s what killed them. Today, we keep animals in groups. It’s been proven—beyond any shadow of a doubt—that eating animal flesh, there’s a little bit of benefit to eating a little bit some people, but most of us animal flesh causes 180 of our major diseases. Then all these viruses: the bird flu, the avian flu, all the measles, all of polio, things like that all coming from eating animals. Just saying, I’ve been shown that we should be reducing that to keep the health of the planet going.   [00:20:51] Ashley James: When you say the health of the planet, it’s not just pollution or global warming stuff agenda. The spread of viruses is from animal husbandry.   [00:21:04] Eric Thorton: Right, when it’s a problem, the way Western medicine looks at it, when the virus transfers to a human, they better get a vaccine. Now, vaccines have their problems. I don’t want to discuss that here right now, but when it goes from an animal to human, that’s when they start doing the research. When it transfers from one human then to another human, that’s when we get a problem. They started studying the coronavirus and doing work at the UW that’s called the Kaiser Permanente Lab and the CDC lab in Shoreline, as well as all around the world. The pandemic organization within the CDCs around the world, tell people when these viruses have transferred to a human, so they can all work together to create a vaccine. Well, it happened. In our country, which is a major amount of money goes to this, generally speaking. It was being done at the University of Washington here in Seattle at the Kaiser Permanente—what’s called now Kaiser Permanente Lab—because they’re funding and they’re paying for the sign on the outside. I don’t know what it is. When number 45 became president, they were ready to test the vaccine on humans. They also had that massive ability to build good quality testing for mass quantity testing ready to go as well. They put that, and then they lost the funding, and it shut down completely. Within a week of March 8, if you recall, the UW Lab announced that they were, it was within 10 days, that they had announced that they were revamping this thing that had been on nitrogen—this vaccine. Within a few days, they were testing it on people.   [00:23:30] Ashley James: They didn’t just invent it, they invented it a while ago.   [00:23:33] Eric Thorton: No, they had it. They invented it when Trump was going coming off this 2012 or what? No, this is 2019 so it was to 2016, it’s when they lost their funding. So it was just sitting there on ice ready to go, and now it’s going. It takes years to develop a virus to get it to the point of being able to try it out on humans.   [00:23:58] Ashley James: You mean a vaccine?   [00:23:59] Eric Thorton: A vaccine, excuse me. To try it on. You’re right. They were already doing it because it was sitting there on ice because the money was taken away. They’re trying it. It takes at least a year studying it to see if it does harm, or how much to do, and how much to give people? Again, vaccines aren’t the greatest thing in the world, but if a bunch of people gets the vaccine and it stops the virus, then it protects everybody. Now, ethically, there’s a whole lot of questions about that, and there are other ways of creating vaccines rather than having heavy metals in them. That’s proven by other countries of the world, but it’s still—if we had a vaccine—it would help slow this. We don’t have the vaccine so we have to keep apart. We don’t have a way of stopping it yet for a large portion of the population whether you agree with vaccines or not, have one yourself or not. A lot of people do, and they do work very well. They can cause other things too—again, I don’t want to talk about that right now, but they do work. There’s a threshold—and I forget the name of it, and I’m not going to recall it right now—of the amount of people that need to be vaccinated in order to stop like TB, or measles, or the chickenpox, or whatever else. There has to be a percentage, and they’ve got to figure it out. It’s like measles is highly contagious so 93% of the population—they figure—should be vaccinated in order to get rid of the measles around the whole planet. I believe it was polio they needed 70% of the population vaccinated to get the same effect. So different things, different diseases require different amounts of the population to have these vaccines. Do I wish they made the vaccines better? You bet you. Didn’t put the heavy metals in them big time, but we don’t have that now. The virus is out there. It is irrelevant where it came from at this point. It is irrelevant—in my opinion—who started, who’s blaming, this and that and the other. If we can get out of our ego and get our heart chakra back balanced, we’re not going to fight this. The only way to fight a pandemic—if you don’t have medicine for it—is to not spread it. When our heart chakras out of balance, our integrity goes out of balance, our anxiety goes up. Like you said, your friend won’t go out of the house. Well, why not? It’s because she’s full of anxiety, and so her integrity is out of balance. Then someone says something and their brain is going to fill in the blanks and turn it into—let’s say someone says, “You need to be 40 feet from somebody to not get it.” Well, a person full of anxiety is going to go, “Oh my god. It’s got to be 40 feet wait,” and they’re going to take that as God’s truth. Yet it’s just hearsay. We got the younger generations. Younger generations will be listening to this. Well, frankly our generations too. We’ve been spoiled by our own work, our own efforts, our own technologies, etc., and we don’t like to give them up. So people sit there and go, “I don’t want to do that. It sounds all about me.” The more anxiety we have the more it’s about me. We’ve had this three-four year build-up of anxiety, and this is like a big fat cherry right on top of a sundae of anxiety. The anxiety they’re having—I have noticed, and the guides have said—this is from the political agendas around the world, and the disruption to the matrix of the human matrix around the planet. They’ve shown me—very clearly on many people through the years, not just with this—that when we have anxiety our immune system goes down. This is also proven scientifically. You can go look it up. I’m not going to quote anything right now because there’s so much proof with that. When we have anxiety, the immune system doesn’t work right. Our adrenaline is through the roof. Our endorphins are low because we have so much adrenaline that’s firing off to get the hormone cycles. We need a dopamine that it doesn’t come through joy. When you get the hormone cycles through joy, the end result is endorphins, which kill viruses, kill bacteria, kill funguses, kill cancer, but when we get our hormones through the adrenal cycle, we get very little endorphins. Those endorphins are part of our defense system. Then, also, anxiety makes us digest food wrong. When we digest food wrong or we eat the wrong food—as many people participate in as looking at the grocery stores today—we eat junk food, our immune systems can’t operate correctly. It’s interesting, everybody knows—because of many things in my life—I became whole food plant-based and learned a great deal about it, and I promote that because it is the only major science on nutrition. I go to the grocery store these days, and you look through the stores because there are so many people that are hoarding, the shelves are empty of all the junk. You go over to the produce department, it’s full. That’s what we need to eat to kill the viruses.   [00:30:24] Ashley James: Yeah, I just did a two and half hour interview with a really good Naturopathic physician, and we talked about that. We talked about exactly what you can do to prevent, I don’t want to say prevent getting it, but it’s how can you set your body up for success so you can be the 80% of the population that is asymptomatic. That will get the virus and have zero symptoms, and the body mounts a response, the immune system figures out its antibodies, figures it out, kills the virus, gets it out of your system, and you’re done. Now, your immune system knows what to do when the virus comes back around. It knows exactly what to do. The 80% of the people out there that are completely asymptomatic are not deficient in zinc, are not deficient in vitamin C, are not deficient in vitamin D, are not at high, high, high cortisol stress, are not sleep-deprived, or eating a balanced diet. They’re taking care of their body—they’re the ones eating the nine cups of fruits and vegetables a day, or taking some vitamins. He talked about exactly what we can do to build our health from the ground up. His first thing, the number one most important thing you should do is a whole food plant-based diet to support the immune system. He says it’s absolutely the most protective. Out of all the diets out there, it’s the most protective of the immune system. He is not against using other diets therapeutically, for example, like a green ketogenic diet or whatever. He uses other diets for specific people, specific instances, but in the general broad, if you want to build your immune system, whole food plant-based no processed food, so no sugar, no processed.   [00:32:25] Eric Thorton: No processed foods, no sugar, no oil. No oil, no meat. No oil outside of what’s in fruits and vegetables and they’re full of oil.   [00:32:35] Ashley James: Nuts, and seeds, and legumes, and whole grains.   [00:32:40] Eric Thorton: Right, right. It’s because these items are God-given and antioxidants. That’s where we get them from. When you get them in whole food, your body uses them better. Yes, you can get them in supplements, but the body can’t use them as well as if you get your zinc from your spinach.   [00:33:04] Ashley James: The thing is though—I agree with you—and with one exception. One caveat is minerals are hard to make sure that you get enough because if that spinach has grown in soil that’s low in zinc, you’re not going to get the adequate amount of daily zinc. If you eat a variety of fruits and vegetables every day, and a variety of color, and you’re eating nine cups of fruits and vegetables, you’re definitely getting 1000 different phytochemicals, you’re getting lots of vitamins. In these times of uncertainty, you could definitely fill in the gaps. Supplements are like the mortar food is the bricks, you can fill in the gaps with some minerals, take some zinc. You can also go to a Naturopath. There are some lab tests you can do. There is an interesting way of telling if you’re mineral deficient. There are certain symptoms we have that are really easy, but if you’re eating a whole food plant-based diet, there are very few people that end up being deficient in nutrients.   [00:34:12] Eric Thorton: Yeah. As you know I recommend vitamin patches for that very reason especially in the wintertime. Our fruits and vegetables have been sitting around oxidizing for weeks oftentimes. The minerals and stuff rust away basically. Yes, you need those. At this time, add a supplement or two, but if we put too many supplements in us that overloads the kidneys and liver, and that causes problems. That lowers our immune system. That’s why I particularly recommend vitamin patches where a lot of other people will do it in pill form, which is fine too. I have noticed when it goes through the skin, our bodies use it better. That I’ve noticed in the blood testing that Naturopaths do that it actually raises the blood levels of these essential nutrients because most people’s digestive systems can’t handle a major influx where a vitamin patch gives it to you a little bit all day long, and it doesn’t go through the stomach and the intestine, so it’s a little easier on us. I work with a lot of very sensitive people though, and that’s why I don’t want to say don’t take vitamin pills. Because I work with sensitive people, a lot of their bodies have been overwhelmed for so long they can’t these vitamins anymore, but the patches work well for them because they’re soft and they’re very gentle. I don’t want to poo-poo anything else. It’s just the population I work with sometimes the patches work better for them. I’ve been very much shown that the end result of all of this chaos has been the very much weakened chakras and weakened immune systems. Our work, we dumped this chaos that each individual has. You’ve heard me call it on your shows before—wheelbarrow loads of things we’re hanging on to. That lowers the stress on the body and the immune system picks up. Oftentimes, people—after work here—will go into what’s called herxing, which is when the body starts to detox and it starts to feel a little bit sick because the immune system is actually working better. It takes a few days, and the body’s, immune system is working, getting rid of these toxins, so they can fight off new ones. Whenever you relieve a load on anybody for anything, the body can repair itself. If you have less anxiety from energy in your energy field, you’re going to sleep better. You’re also going to process food better. You’re going to process your ego better if you’re not in anxiety. You will learn to turn off a lot of this hearsay. Today, I heard somebody say, “If you eat lots of ginger all day long you’ll never get the coronavirus.”   [00:37:40] Ashley James: I got a text today from one of my friends saying, “The Russians have solved it. They eat ginger all day long, and they don’t have the coronavirus.” There’s so much misinformation going on.   [00:37:51] Eric Thorton: Right. There’s another one the other day. It’s basically saying along that same lines, and this part of it is actually true, “If you are constantly salivating and swallowing, if you’re drinking lots of fluids, when the coronavirus, if it gets in our mouth, not our eyes, but if it gets in our mouth we then swallow it, and it gets killed by the stomach acid.” If you’re eating ginger all day long, it’s going to make you salivate. If you do get it in your mouth, ginger is an antiviral, and it makes you salivate because it’s very powerful. Then you’re going to swallow it, it’s going to get killed in your stomach acid, but it’s not going to solve it coming through your eyes or your skin. These are hearsays that are out there that there may be an inkling of truth to it, but we add our own. “Oh my god. Everyone run and get ginger.” Well, you could just have a glass of water. Sip on water all day long, or a little nice tea, anything to keep your moisture moving in your mouth to prevent it from entering your system through your mouth. All this information is causing this chaos. This is one of the interesting things that the guides were really big on talking about today, and I don’t know how this will work out, but they showed me when I was doing some healing work on myself with my assistant and friend Judy, lovely gifted person.  They showed me what the new-age calls the matrix, which is the energy generated by all humans that is circling in on the planet at all times. Psychics can reach into this information and get intuition about different people in different places. People who do remote viewing use the matrix to view places that are of distance. I can sit here, and tap into the matrix, and feel the chaos of the whole planet. I teach people about the points of pathology so they learn to shut this down. In this matrix, it is so chaotic that it can’t heal itself at this point. What that means, the way they explained it to me is like this, if you take—I used the example with you earlier, what do they call this soybean stuff. Put a mark on this.   [00:41:02] Ashley James: Tofu.   [00:41:03] Eric Thorton: Tofu. You scramble it up in a blender, and you put it back in the dish, and you just let it sit, it’s going to make itself solid again. It’ll make itself solid in an entirely different arrangement even though it looks the same. Any bacteria that have been in it have been disrupted. The tofu can actually last longer in your refrigerator or on your counter because the bacteria, and viruses, and things like that deteriorate the tofu has now been completely disrupted, and yet the tofu has reassembled itself in a healthier place. I’m looking at that I’m going, “Ah, the energy of disruption.” Another friend showed me there are dowsing rods that are called disruption laws. You use them around people or animals and it can disrupt their energy field, and it’ll reset itself, and they can get over diseases. They’re saying, we need to do this as a planet.   [00:42:10] Ashley James: Your guides are saying we need to do this as a planet?   [00:44:58] Eric Thorton: As a planet, we need to scramble the matrix—whatever that looks like—and let it reset itself so that it can heal. They pointed out to me, we’re all trying to—healers of all sorts around the world, and intentions, the gift of petition, prayers, things like that—are all trying to help heal someone through our own personal point of view, our own cognitive biases. Some people think you need Jesus to heal, some people think you need chlorophyll to heal so they’re going to send chlorophyll, some say you got to send some aconite the palace in a homeopath, some people think you need steak to heal, some people you need the prayer of a thousand people, the power of eight, the this or that, or the other, which is all harnessing thought and sending it. Biblically, it’s called the gifts of petition. You’re asking for healing, but you’re asking through your own agendas. We can’t help it, we’re human. Where Gaia, the planet, has this amazing ability to heal itself, but the human matrix above the planet is now so full of anxiety from these years of disruption and unrest that it’s not able to organize itself and to disrupt some of these viruses. What they’ve said is basically we need to ask people to put the effort out, in their mindset, throughout many times throughout the day. If we could do it in sequence at night like at 9:00 PM every night throughout each time zone throughout the planet. That everybody who hears this or words pass, at that moment, they astral travel if they travel, put the intention out of scrambling the atmosphere. It’s not going to scramble physically, but what they’re saying is it’s scrambling the energetics, so it will reorganize itself like the tofu did, comes out looking the same, but all the viruses and bacteria have been disrupted, and the levels can then start to fall. I don’t know what that looks like.   [00:44:57] Ashley James: Can you ask them?   [00:44:59] Eric Thorton: I don’t know what it looks like in that how people will play it out. How it would look like if everybody did this is the coronavirus would then be susceptible to the energy of Gaia killing it.   [00:45:18] Ashley James: What’s protecting the coronavirus from not being susceptible to dying off like it should?   [00:45:26] Eric Thorton: Ego.   [00:45:28] Ashley James: What do you mean?   [00:45:29] Eric Thorton: When we’re all in anxiety, that’s a state of ego, and we’re putting out all this fear into the matrix. So that’s what we’re going to manifest. It’s literally called manifesting. You put out fear, you put out anxiety, you’re going to manifest the reasons for fear and anxiety.   [00:45:51] Ashley James: The fear and anxiety that we’ve had mounting up globally for the last 20 years are manifesting plagues, our collective mass hysteria is manifesting pandemics?   [00:46:16] Eric Thorton: Right. That’s what they’re telling us.   [00:46:17] Ashley James: I like to mention the power of 8 because I just interviewed the author of that recently, and we started a power of 8 group. Any listeners who want to join, go to the Learn True Health Facebook group. We started a group, and we’ve done two little groups together so far. It’s really cool. There’s eight of us or whatever, and we all come up with one thing to focus on for 10 minutes for one of the people in the group. Then we discuss the results. We all have a very similar experience, and the person really feels it. There’s only a handful of people that are focusing the same intention, so we’re all focusing the same intention for that person, and that person is getting results. One woman has MS, and she started feeling tingling, she started feeling sensations. Another woman has had a really chronic, a really bad sinus infection. She started to feel her head, warmth, and energy, and things were clearing.   [00:47:24] Eric Thorton: How hard was it to get eight people or however many you had to even be quiet for ten minutes?   [00:47:32] Ashley James: We have a few thousand people in the Facebook group, but only eight out of the few thousand decided that they wanted to join. Maybe the timing was off or whatever. Very small percentage of people will sit down for 10 minutes and do a collective thought experiment.   [00:47:56] Eric Thorton: The guides are saying the same type of thing.   [00:47:58] Ashley James: If you could get a small percentage of people to all—   [00:48:03] Eric Thorton: To all scramble this matrix—it’s an imaginative thing, I know that—but put the intention of scrambling the energy on the planet, it can then reorganize, and see, and it’s very similar to the power of eight. Humans are very hard to actually put their intention for any length of time together, but when we do, it’s amazing.   [00:48:34] Ashley James: It is, it’s absolutely amazing. She did experiments and they were able to—long-distance—make plants go more. They were doing it in universities. They had universities plant a bunch of seeds and then labeled them seed A, seed B. The universities all watered them the exact same, treated them all the exact same. They didn’t know which ones the intentions were being sent to, but 100% of the time, the ones that were getting the intentions from the groups were growing exponentially more. Then they also sent negative intentions to some seeds. They did not do as well as the controls. They also did experiments where they would get a group of people and send good intentions, and then send a bad intention, then a good intention, then a bad intention. The students were reporting the findings, and sure enough, it was a zigzag: good then bad then good then bad. This is part of quantum physics. Quantum physics is trying to explain this. I love the movie What the Bleep Do We Know because it goes into this in a fun way. Kids can watch What the Bleep Do We Know. Your whole family can watch it. It came out in the early 2000s. What the Bleep Do We Know, definitely get that movie because it connects spirituality with quantum physics, with science. They’re trying to explain how we actually do as humans with our intention, with our emotions, where we focus our intention and attention. That we affect our physical reality, but we also affect—like you call it—the matrix. We’re tapping into the—   [00:50:32] Eric Thorton: Unconscious collective.   [00:50:33] Ashley James: Unconscious collective. Yeah. That energy net that we can tap into. Even though we think we’re physically apart, we’re connected. We’re all really, really connected. We’re all driving blindfolded like we don’t know that we’re driving and we’re just running around, so we’re creating chaos when we could be creating harmony by harnessing our gifts.   [00:51:09] Eric Thorton: I mentioned it earlier, when 9/11 happened, like anybody else, I was shocked. It really hit the heart chakra. I said to my guides—I don’t impose anything I do on anybody, I wait for guidance. I don’t think it’s ethically right to look into anybody’s energy field to help out. I think the universe has plenty of help. If they want the etheric energy of somebody to anchor something or the astral energy, they can ask, and that’s what healers are for. When 9/11 happened I said, “If you need some help somehow over there—I can’t imagine how you would need help—I’m happy to help out whatever you guys say.” About four days after the tragedy they said, “Eric, what’s going on over there?” I said, “Really?” They go, “Yeah.” We astral travel. We’re above the area, and they told me just to observe. I sat there and I observed. I was seeing all of these wonderful intentions from all these healers. People praying for the aid workers, for the people that have died, for their families, for all this stuff, and helping to move people to the other side. I sat there and I just went—I had this huge realization. I was watching all this wonderful intention cause complete chaos. All this intention—a lot of your listeners are going to go, “Huh?” But people have guides and angels. When we die, they’re there for us. It doesn’t require a healer to help you to the other side. If you’re not going to go to the other side it’s an egoic issue. That would be a ghost, and it can go on to other things, which is another subject. It doesn’t require the matrix if you will. The universe knows how to do this. All of these people with these wonderful intentions were actually making people—the aid workers, the firefighters, etc.—more tired. They were actually holding back souls from moving on because, no you have to do it my way, the Catholic way, the Presbyterian way, the new-age way, then whatever, it has to be my way. Yet the universe has been doing this for trillions of years, but somehow the egos of people sit here and, “It must be my way.” This is what the guides are pointing out is happening now. We’ve got so much chaos. It can’t organize and help stop the virus from spreading and help calm down the anxieties of the individuals. It’s building up and building up and building up, and we fill in our own blanks. I mentioned a book to you earlier which I’ll mention now because it’ll be a terrific interview for you. It’s called Nerosculpting for Anxiety and we had talked about this. She points out how we fill in the blanks of partial information, and we swear it’s God’s truth. For example, if you have a crowd and you make some statements that are odd or not complete, and you put it out into a crowd—whether the crowd is together or the crowd is individual around the planet—you make a statement that is not like—you say some beautiful statement that your intention is for. I’m trying to think of an example. We talked about one with something I read to you earlier about how the virus is a great equalizer, well it’s not, but it sounds beautiful. People will read into it, “Oh, yes. We’re the same as rich people,” except it didn’t say that. The statement didn’t say that we’re the same as rich people. It was a great equalizer. There’s a lot of celebrities and stuff that have gotten the coronavirus. Well, they get to afford a whole bunch of care, but the poorer people don’t. It’s not a good equalizer, it’s a divider, but we read into the statement made by a very famous person, “Oh, that’s so sweet and lovely.” We filled it in. Our brains consciously—when we are in fear—think one in two-dimensionally. We fill in the blanks consciously that are not there. You have a crowd, you make a partial statement, and the crowd is seated with people to say words. I don’t want to get into the political agendas and stuff like that now, but they plant words out there or they make a statement, “Oh, yeah. He means this,” and everyone goes, “Yeah, he means that. Yes, he means that. He’s wonderful,” and he didn’t do anything. He or she makes a partial statement. We do this more when we are in anxiety. We sit here and we go, “Okay, eat ginger. Oh, that’ll cure it. Quick, everybody run and get ginger.” Where the statement, “Eating ginger cures the coronavirus,” isn’t proven by anything. What’s proven is if you keep your mouth moist, and you keep swallowing, if the coronavirus goes in your mouth, it goes down into the stomach acid and gets killed, but it can still come through your eyes. Everyone figured, “Oh, it’ll cure if I eat ginger.” Well, this just makes it all day so you don’t get it through your mouth, but you can still get it through your eyes, and skin, and through your nose. We filled in the answer, and it was untrue, or it was a partial truth. The news, the political agendas, we’re all doing this, and it’s causing us more and more conflict, more and more information in the matrix, and more and more anxiety, which is also going into the matrix, weakening our heart chakras, and taking our defense systems down. Our personal defense systems and Gaia’s defense systems are down. The guides are asking everybody, I would put it at each time zone at 9:00 PM, start doing the intention of scrambling the matrix, and let’s see what happens in a week. If nobody does it, maybe nothing will happen. Maybe if 80,000, or 200,000, or 1 million people get a hold of this thing, maybe it’ll change it. It’s worth a try. It gets people to focus—like with the power of eight—on one thing. I’ve worked with you in another situation with the power of eight and got some great benefits from it. It’s difficult to focus. It’s difficult to get people to even do anything. Except these days, rushing for toilet paper. I get a kick out of that one. Anyway. I’m putting it out there, 9:00 PM every time zone all the way around the planet. Everyone work at scrambling. However, you think you can, scrambling the matrix so it can reset itself. Let’s see what happens.   [00:59:57] Ashley James: That’s what the guides showed you?   1:00:00] Eric Thorton: That’s what the guide showed me. They also showed many other ways that our immune systems are dramatically affected. We’d already talked about meat and oil. We tried to have another conversation before about parasites, chemicals in our bodies, food probiotics, and the signals they give us that keep our immune systems from functioning correctly.  There are so many chemicals in the environment that the parasites and things like that have actually gotten out of hand. Chemicals generally don’t kill parasites, and we eat parasites, we breathe parasites, and viruses, and bacteria. Our body generally takes care of them, but when they get overloaded, our bodies can’t do a good job.  Our bodies are alive because of symbiotic relationships with what we call beneficial parasites. If we ate naturally, which would be more along the lines of what we already discussed—whole food plant base—we get fewer chemicals in us because of whole food plant-based. We should be eating organic—if you can possibly afford it—but also the chlorophyll in things help remove pesticides and such from our bodies—amongst many other things.  Eating proper minerals, like we discussed, help remove toxins from the bodies. But we get parasites and all that stuff. In North America, we get most of the parasites from our fruits, and vegetables, and from meat. We get loaded up with them. As you move to the warmer climates you get more and more parasites that come in through the water, and through the air, from bugs lining on us, planting their eggs in us, and things like that. Well, these are problems for us because each parasite—when it gets hungry just like humans or if you ever watched a cat get hungry—they start getting aggressive, and they start running around. They’re giving you a signal to feed them. Well, scientifically, they have proven this. I’ve looked it up one time. There are tens of thousands of studies on the biochemical signals that a parasite gives you to feed it.  Let’s say you get a parasite from a cow from eating beef, and the parasite’s running out of cow to eat. It’s going to send a signal that it’s hungry. It’s like a dog that’s trained to tell someone they’re going to have a grand mal seizure because this dog can smell it. Your body is starting to give off a biochemical signal that a dog can smell. This is how animals become service animals because they’re trained to react to these smells. Parasites do the same thing. They give off these biochemical signals, they go to our brain, and they say, “Eat more meat.” If you quit eating the meat, the parasites die. It takes a number of months. Then all of a sudden you eat meat and it tastes like ugh. I’m not a hypocrite. I thought meat tasted great. Now, I taste meat and it tastes like, “Ugh. I don’t really need that anymore.” I don’t have anything in me giving me the signal to eat the meat.  Well, if you take things like sugar. Sugar ups your anaerobic probiotics. The anaerobic probiotics, I suppose to be between 10% and 20% of our probiotics, preferably around 10%. The more sugary things you eat or eat processed food, the more that those anaerobic probiotics get to eat, so their numbers go higher and higher and higher. Those probiotics are alive like a parasite. When they get hungry, they tell you to eat more of the food that they want themselves. They tell you to eat more sugar, more junk food, go to the places to get the things that feed the anaerobic bacteria. You can look at most of your grocery stores full of the things that eat that because it gives us cravings and we buy more. Once you’ve been off of these foods, the anaerobic bacteria goes down, the quantities go down, so your cravings go down. There’s a book called The Pleasure Trap by Dr. Goldhammer that explains these biochemical signals that our own probiotics give us and parasites give us to eat the food that keeps us sick. When you stop eating these foods, the anaerobic probiotics levels go down.  They talked about, in the movie Game-Changer, what meat does to our vascular system. As long as you’re eating that meat, it rots, you don’t digest it very quickly, so it starts to rot in your intestine. The rotting meat is what the anaerobic bacteria eat. They’ll eat the rotting meat so you do eventually digest it, but the anaerobic bacteria has gone way up in numbers. Now you’re low on meat and it asks for more, so then you crave meat. When you’re craving meat and oils, it kills the aerobic bacteria. It smothers it like if you take an apple and you wash it underwater, the water beads up. If you wash it under olive oil, the olive oil coats the apple. If the apple had to breathe air, it would die.  Well, aerobic bacteria have to breathe air. Every time you swallow food you get air with it. That aerobic bacteria is what digests the grains, the fruit, and the vegetables. With a low number of that, we can’t get the nutrition from those foods, and that’s where we get the wheat belly. That’s where we get even from ancient wheat. That’s where we get problems digesting the grains, and problems digesting the plants and the fruits. If you treat them correctly, they have the least amount of parasites on them.  We don’t crave them. We crave the things that grow the parasites and grow the anaerobic bacteria. The aerobic bacteria just sits there and waits for more oxygen and to do its job. When it runs out of oxygen, it dies off. Then the anaerobic levels go way up, and we get stuck in these cycles of eating very bad food that drops our immune system, which makes us so we can’t fight off viruses, and bacterias, and funguses. Between the bacteria in our intestines, and the parasites that we eat that come from food that is easy to digest—because parasites like food that’s easy to digest too—we have this pleasure trap, if you will, that we can’t get out of. That’s why even during this coronavirus outbreak, what’s on the shelves? Everyone’s taken all the junk food off the shelves. That’s what they brought home to eat. That you go over to the fruits and vegetables, it’s full. Nobody’s eating that stuff because nobody’s craving it. Nobody’s trying to satisfy anything and lead these urges that we get these chemical signals make us want the Oreo cookie, “Well, cookies taste good,” but if we’re craving them, there’s something wrong. We’ve talked about this eating zero cookie in the situation before, but it applies again today. People need to eat fruits and vegetables like your previous guest said. They need to eat whole food plant-based. They need to have some vitamins and mineral supplements, they need to get their antioxidants up, they need to get the anaerobic bacteria up, and their aerobic bacteria down, then your immune system can handle it.  When you swallow the coronavirus, you want something in there that’s going to kill it. That’s your digestive enzymes, your prebiotics. A digestive enzyme is when your pancreas gives out, so we want it to come from our pancreas—if possible. That goes down and goes down through the digestive system, and makes it so that nothing’s going to live. The coronavirus isn’t going to live in your body. If you don’t have the antioxidants in your body, you swallow the coronavirus, they’ll probably live and you’ll get the disease. This is why people that eat better are not getting the disease or getting very minor cases of it. That includes older people. I’m here today. Guys, eat better. Eat your fruits and vegetables, and cut down or eliminate the meat, and the removed oil from vegetables. Don’t eat that if you can help it. Help your immune system come up.  The whole food plant-based group recommends a 21-day challenge. Well, in 21 days you’ll see your whole body change dramatically for the better, and your immune system comes up. It’s amazing. Even in my household, there are three of us that eat whole food plant-based, and there are two that don’t. Well, the ones that eat whole food plant-based, when the other two get sick, we don’t get sick. We giggle too. We look at them and go, “Well, you know the solution.” It doesn’t mean you’re not going to get it, it just means you’re not going to get a bad case of it. So once in a while, the ones of us who eat whole food plant-based will get the sniffles, will get a little bit, but we don’t get the full-blown thing. Our bodies fight it off correctly. Anyway. I recommend everybody do parasite cleanses, and liver cleanses to get the parasites out of your system.   [01:12:17] Ashley James: What do the guides recommend as being the most effective ones, or does each person is kind of different?   [01:12:28] Eric Thorton: I have noticed they like the typical, they like the natural anti-parasite things. You’re going to want—what is it cloves, wormwood—and there’s another one. Let me recall what it is.   [01:12:45] Ashley James: There’s one out of India, which is mimosa pudica. I did two interviews about this, really effective protocol by Dr. Jay Davidson. Listeners can go to learntruehealth.com/cleanse for that one.   [01:13:03] Eric Thorton: Gaia has provided many different things to kill parasites. I use one that doesn’t have grapefruit seed extract because that’s not good for my body right now. I use one called Parastroy. It’s cheap, it’s easy. There are many combinations, and I’m sure you have lots of recommendations. Ashwagandha works at killing certain bacterias, and viruses, and parasites. I know that’s one of them. Organic or not, if you can’t afford the organic, it’s better to just do it anyway with not organic just to get these parasite numbers down so your body doesn’t have to fight the parasites. Believe it or not, remember, a parasite is alive. They have excrement, and your body’s got to fight all that off. That’s literally poison in your bloodstream that your body has to fight off first before it’s going to fight the coronavirus. Lower the parasite—the non-beneficial parasites that you have in your body, the more energy your immune system has to fight this incoming disease. The better your intestinal tract is operating, the higher your aerobic bacteria is—that’s the first part of your immune system is your intestines. It’s the aerobic bacteria that do the work. The higher that is, the higher your immune system can function.  Also, when you digest food right, it heals your large intestine so you don’t have leaky gut, so you don’t have all this what’s called triglycerides going through your intestinal wall and going into your bloodstream, and then your immune system has to fight all that off too. Our immune systems are amazing. They do so much work 24/7 keeping down systemic diseases, keeping down the incoming, taking care of chemicals we breathe, or get on us. It’s an amazing thing. If we can give some relief, it’ll focus on the things we need it to focus on. That’s what we’ve talked about today so far, how to give it some relief? If you can reduce your anxiety by not listening to the news so much, yes we need to know what we have to do at this point.   [01:15:53] Ashley James: Don’t put your head in the sand, but you talked about that we fill in the gaps. I want to address this because I teach. I’ve been teaching since 2005 how to eliminate anxiety. That’s one of my strong suits. What you were talking about is a different way of describing what I teach.   [01:16:12] Eric Thorton: I remember you telling me something. It was really interesting. It was really good.   [01:16:16] Ashley James: Thank you. The body—the physical body—is always listening to the mind, and the mind is always filling in the gaps. I give the example of we’re driving in traffic, and everything’s fine. We’re driving to work and all of a sudden we see red lights ahead of us, all the brake lights turn on, and all of a sudden we have anxiety. Like boom, sweaty palms, the body’s freaking out, heart’s pounding, shallow breath, and we’re going, “What is going on?” Maybe a knot in your stomach or a frog in your throat. You don’t even realize that what just happened in that split second is your mind filled in the gaps and went, “Oh my gosh. There are brake lights. There’s going to be a traffic jam. I’m going to be late for work. My boss is going to fire me. I’m not going to be able to pay the rent, or pay the mortgage, or pay the grocery bills,” or whatever. We’re going to all end up homeless and dead. The mind perceived those brake lights as a direct threat to your survival right now, and turned on the stress response of the autonomic nervous system’s fight-or-flight response, the sympathetic nervous system response. Because we’re either in cortisol response, or we’re in oxytocin. We’re either in feel-good, healing, relaxed, in a loving state, or we’re in survival, fear, worry. We become so used to, like you said, our heart chakras had taken such a hit—gosh, you just keep thinking back—the last 20 years, right? But think about before that, and think about before that. We’re under constant threat and the media loves, loves to feed on this. I was just having a conversation the other day with a very intelligent friend of mine who said that this is a spiritual war, and then just today, before we hit record you said that. I thought that was very interesting because this is a spiritual war, and it’s been waged much longer than before we were even born. Our heart chakra is constantly taking it from all sides, keeping our heads in the sand, keeping us dumbed down, keeping us living in a low vibration state, fighting over toilet paper. Because if we’re fighting over toilet paper, then we’re not evolving, we’re not empowered, we’re not taking control of our own destiny. They’re keeping us in a low vibration, fear state. My friend was even talking that they feed off of this energy of fear. It’s like a parasite that they feed off of keeping the masses dumbed down, fluoridated, and buying into junk food and drugs, and keeping them doped up on the dopamine—the pleasure trap. Go through Vegas, it’s close now, but go through Vegas when it’s not closed—because I used to live there. Walk through any casino and you will see.  Plato wrote the Allegory of the Cave where he describes a person who breaks free of the chains, of the reality that constrained him, and that he comes back to warn all the people who he was in this prison with, and they all try to kill him because they could not even perceive being out of the matrix, being pulled out of the matrix. I think it’s a 33,000-year-old or 35,000-year-old story. It’s basically what the matrix was based on, is this idea that when you pull your head in the sanding, you look around, and you go, “We are all buying into this system that keeps us suppressed and keeps us sick. What are we doing?” On social media, people are all in their homes, sharing videos and pictures of how much alcohol they’re drinking, and how much junk food they’re eating, and they’re celebrating ill health, and yet if you go out for a walk in the sunlight—not near anyone—but you go for a walk in the sunlight, and you share that, then you would be condemned. There are so many people angry about that because, “How dare you leave your house?” It’s this wacky world where we are not celebrating health.   [01:20:39] Eric Thorton: [Inaudible]   [01:20:41] Ashley James: Exactly, exactly.   [01:20:43] Eric Thorton: It’s like you were saying. You hit the brake lights and your subconscious mind thinks of all these different things. Like you said, if you change the script like, “Thank God we got brake lights here so we didn’t cause a car accident. That’s wonderful. What a great invention.” Your immune system is still working. If you’re in the other one. If you’re in the, “Oh my God. I’m going to be late from work,” your immune system has to go and take care of that. You just manifested how many minutes of your immune system not functioning correctly.   [01:21:22] Ashley James: Absolutely. The doctor I just interviewed about that said, “When we’re in cortisol, when were in a stress response, our immune system is 100% compromised.”   [01:21:30] Eric Thorton: 100%.   [01:21:31] Ashley James: Our brain is doing this all the time because this is how we were raised.   [01:21:36] Eric Thorton: It’s part of our culture now.   [01:21:38] Ashley James: But it’s part of the global programming to focus on what we don’t want to have happened. It’s also genealogically. Basically, the pessimists were the survivors, and the optimist didn’t think there’d be a bear in the woods so they were the ones that got eaten. So really, genetically, the people who are the most cautious were able to survive and pass on their genes. If we just blindly follow our basic instincts, “Oh, I feel like Oreo so I’m going to eat them. I feel like this, I’m going to eat them.” Who’s telling you to feel that? Is it your gut biome because there are so many studies, and you pointed to me, you showed me this. There are studies that prove that the gut biome hijacks the brain, sends chemicals to the brain. If we have a bad gut biome, like the Homer Simpson of gut biomes that have been created by eating—I keep picking on Oreos. If we go through the drive-thru every day, even one meal a day, and you eat that kind of food, you’re creating a gut biome that’s going to hijack your brain and make you want that more and want the kale less. I’m not even saying go vegan. I’m not saying cut out all meat. I’m just saying eat more plants, more and more and more plants, and more vegetables. More variety of vegetables, fruits, more whole foods.   [01:23:05] Eric Thorton: Right. Every bit helps.   [01:23:08] Ashley James: Yeah. You cultivate a gut biome that then tells you it wants that more.   [01:23:13] Eric Thorton: Dr. Goldhamer, when I was there, he goes, “If you eat this way,” they recommend 100% eating this way, but if you’ve eaten 70% of that way, you cut down your meat 70%, and your oil 70%, you have 70% less stuff in you damaging your immune system. So your immune system can work better. If you can go 80%, go 90%, you got that much more working for your health instead of for the corporations for the corporate profit. This is where we bring up the idea of enlightenment. Enlightenment is when you can look at these things and make a choice that says, “No.” Enlightenment is when you have a problem. You got to go to Jack in the Box because you’re craving their lovely food, but your brain goes, “You know, I don’t really need that today. I can choose something healthier.” Enlightenment is when you look at the negative things and find the positive things out of that. We know scientifically that these junk foods are terrible for us, and we know these other health foods are healthy for, us but we keep choosing the ones that feed the corporate ladder and this biofilm within us. Someone who is enlightened is going to look at the problem and go, “Well, okay. This is going to hurt my body, so we’re going to override those cravings until we don’t have those cravings anymore. We don’t obsess about it.” It’s like, “Yeah, that’s what my body is craving because I put all this crap into it for all these years.” This is why Buddhist philosophy teaches enlightenment. It takes every negative that we could think of and turns it into a positive. Enlightenment doesn’t mean not having a Jack in the Box, McDonald’s around, it means being able to make a decision for the health of your body. It doesn’t mean not having the issues, it means we can make a decision to help our bodies. In the case of the coronavirus, an enlightened person is going to—because there is no other way to stop this now that it’s out there, no matter how it got out there, it’s there. An enlightened person’s going to go, “Yeah, okay. That’s what we need to do.” A person who is not enlightened is going to go, “Oh my god. I got to have so much TP. I got to have the cookies. I got to have the Jack. What am I going to do?” They’re stuck on their greed and their habits instead of what is non-egoic, what’s good for your body, and what’s good for the planet.   [01:26:34] Ashley James: I don’t know if I’d call it greed because those people are so—they have been living in that vibration of fear for so long without knowing it. They’ve been living in that survival mode that they need to feel a sense of control. When we’re hit with chaos, we need to feel like we’re in control. When my mom was diagnosed with cancer, my dad and I—how we processed it—we immediately went to the health food store and bought her a juicer like that moment. When I really should have just stayed home and like hugged her, and held her, and not left her alone. I don’t know what we were thinking. The moment we needed to feel like we were doing something. We needed to do something to help. People need to react and feel like they’re doing something to help their family and themselves whether it’s buying two cases of toilet paper and four boxes of Oreos. Obviously, those weren’t the decisions that were best supportive of their immune systems. Now, there are some supplement companies that have completely run out of supplements. Some people are buying up supplements, some people are buying up Oreos. We need to take a step back and go, “What can we do to support our family and our body mentally, emotionally.   [01:27:56] Eric Thorton: And our community.   [01:27:57] Ashley James: Yeah, and go beyond just our household. That’s right. Go beyond just our household. First, we got to feel like we’re not under threat. Have a week’s worth of food. Everyone should always have a week’s worth of food anyway in case there was any kind of emergency like a tornado, or something, earthquake. We should always have some. I lived in the part of Canada where this was somewhere in the early 2000s. The entire eastern seaboard lost power for I think it was a week. Something in Niagara Falls. Niagara Falls gives energy to a lot of Canada and the United States, and there was no power in Boston, there was no power in New York City. I think it was a week, I mean we could Google this, but I just remember having a ton of fun because my friends and I go camping all the time, so we just went camping. We’re like, “We already have all the food.” It was several, several days, and there are people who were stuck. If there was no electricity, some people can’t cook, some people can’t get down 50 flights of stairs because they live in an apartment building, so there was a lot of chaos. Back then, we didn’t have the cellphones we have now, we didn’t have the internet. We all managed, but if you have a week’s worth of food for your family, that makes sense, right? Make it the right kind of food that supports the immune system—just moving forward. People were in reactionary mode, and I think now, they’re settling down and looking at, “Okay, what can I do to protect ourselves?” So many people will not have money next week because there’s a large percentage of people who live paycheck to paycheck. I was just talking to my friend, he goes, “I have $30.” He’s a music teacher. He does his private classes. He goes, “I have $30 to last me until this is over.” There are so many people who are now in that state of fear. We have to get out of fear even though there are real threats to our survival right now, we have to get out of fear in order to support our immune system, and in order to support our ability to solve the problems because we cannot solve problems when we’re in the state of fear because the autonomic nervous system shuts down the frontal cortex in order to have us make reactionary decisions for survival. In the long term, it is not good because we cannot think clearly and make critical decisions, which is something that you’ve talked about. How can you today help the listener? All the listeners are listening that are worried about the COVID-19, what advice do the guides give? What can we do today right now to support ourselves, our family, and our communities?    [01:31:08] Eric Thorton: Well, to pull this together. One, eat right if you can. Two, support your community. If you’ve got someone that’s got $30 and you got more, help them out. The government’s trying to get checks out through their system. It’s going to take a little longer. If they need driving or they need to get help getting to unemployment offices to get money. If they need help with their business to get, like you and I are private businesses, how do we keep our income coming in, or do we need help? When you’re in safety mode, if you got $30 left, talk to people. Let them know that there’s a problem. Maybe, if people can get out of their own fear and their own—I use the word greed earlier—greed, that they’ve got to have it. They don’t want to be in that guy’s position and only have $30 left. There have been many stories around the area I’m at where people are buying people’s groceries where they don’t have enough money to pay for their groceries and other people are coming up and paying for that. That’s a wonderful thing. That heals the heart chakra. That makes us feel, everybody feel good. If we can pass that forward or what do they call that? Pay it forward. If we can remember the good things we have. When I get into fear—I’m human too. When I get in the fear, I think of all the people that I get to help. They’ve proven that energetic medicine kills viruses. I’m a healer, and I get to help do that. Each individual has the ability to harness healing energy even when you’re in fear. If you can sit there, and someone’s got the coronavirus, and you can sit there and feel the love that you have for that person, and put your hand over their heart chakra, don’t touch it, just put it over their heart chakra, and just let them feel your love. Like you said, one of you should have stayed home and just held your mom when she was diagnosed. That is huge. This is why bringing families together from being separated. We can help our community that way. I get to help people on a regular basis doing that, but we all have the ability to conduct love. We all have the ability to conduct Gaia, which is peaceful harmonizing energy. If we just put our hands over the top of someone’s heart chakra between the lower sternum and the top of the sternum and just send love. You can do this from a distance. If you have a friend that has the virus. I was working with someone—I work everything long-distance right now and I was working with them. I just said, “Can I send you healing energy?” Because I will always ask. They said, “Sure,” and then I’m able to just put my hand where their heart chakra would be—duplicated in my mind’s eye—and just send them that love. They felt better immediately. That’s something we can all do. If we can all do the 9:00 PM scramble of the matrix in our own mind’s eye, let’s do it. The power of 800 million maybe, or the power of 8,000. The power of anything to put our intention instead of fear. To put it to love in our humanity, our fellow human beings, and touch each other through the energetics whether we’re with them or not. Call, I have been calling friends. I check up on people that I know. I know thousands of people, and I text them, and email them, and things like that. I want to know how they’re doing. Anyone I’ve worked within sessions, I can send them healing energy very easily. It seems to shorten the time and severity of any virus. Everybody can do that. I can do it differently, really well, but everybody can still do that. That calms the soul. It calms the heart chakra for both people and all participating. So let’s do that instead of watching all the hearsay and listening to it all the hearsay. It’s here guys. The only way we’re going to stop it—it isn’t through eating ginger. It’s going to be through love. It’s going to be through holding each other in that space of love and not shoo.   [01:36:38] Ashley James: Well, love turns off the stress response.   [01:36:41] Eric Thorton: Exactly.   [01:36:42] Ashley James: You also mentioned things that could be described as gratitude. The thing is we have to catch ourselves because we unconsciously automatically fill in the gaps. A really good practice is triviumeducation.com teaches you how to do critical thinking and listen for linguistic fallacies. When you listen for linguistic fallacies, you realize how much we fill in the gaps, and we always need gaps in a way that may threaten our survival and so it turns on the stress response a lot of the times. You and I have talked about this. It’s something that at first, it’s like unconscious incompetence, and then we become conscious of it, and now we’re consciously incompetent. Now we’re catching ourselves every time we’re in anxiety, or worry, or stress, or fear, and we catch ourselves and we go, “Oh, there. I’m doing it again. There, I’m giving in to the worry and the fear. I’ve been giving in to it. How do I break this cycle?” We have to start breaking the cycle and it could be 20 times a day focusing on what’s good about this.   [01:37:56] Eric Thorton: One of my therapists and also a doctor told me this. He goes, “Eric, you have a busy life, you have stressors,” they all know what I do for a living. They go, “Instead of trying to answer consciously the issues you’re having, Eric, why don’t you do this? Do a little visualizing so you can pull in both halves of your brain.” When you’re in the fight-or-flight, you’re in the conscious effort, you’re using the logic side of your brain, and it’s only 5% of your brain’s power when it’s used alone. When you combine it with the artistic side of your brain, you can now use 95% of your brain’s power. They suggested this, “Eric, put your problems,” they suggested a visualization. They said, “Put your problems on a raft and you’re going down a river. You see the waterfall coming up, and you see the rapids before the waterfall. You can make a choice. You can get off that raft with all your problems, and go to the side of the river, and sit there, and watch that raft and all your problems go down the river and off the waterfall, and then you can go down to the end of it. Get on the raft again if you want.” What you’ve done at that moment is you’ve included the artistic side of your brain in your thinking process, and you’re watching this thing happen through your mind’s eye, so you’re turning off the conscious fight-or-flight—the part that turns on the cortisol. You’re turning it off, and you’re pulling in the artistic side of the brain, so then your brain is actually doing a full three-dimensional thinking subconsciously. That’s when your answers come to you. When you’re constantly trying to figure it out, like you said, different ideas have different words for this, but it’s the cortisol response from your adrenal glands. When you include the artistic side of your brain by launching it to the moon. We talked about the energy exchange. Everyone who’s heard my talks, we talked about the energy exchange where we are visually giving back the person their stressors. It’s telling our brain consciously, “Oh, that’s not mine,” and subconsciously it’s like, “Oh.” You can think about them, how to actually help this person by supporting them and letting them figure out their problem. If you answer their problem, you’ve prevented them from learning and growing, but if you sit back and you go, “You know that’s their problem, it’s not mine, but I can hear, and I can listen to them, and I can be here for them, and I can just keep giving it back to them.” Your immune system doesn’t get compromised then. Your thinking power goes into a 95% use of your brain, and you can come up with solutions for ideas to present them, but not demand, so that this person’s brain can think. Their imagination can think. We have a problem. We start listening to the news today. Launch it to the moon. Take it, and throw it into the matrix, and just scramble it up in your mind’s eye. Imagine clouds and you’re up there and you’re just scrambling them up. That’s pulling in the artistic side of your brain and logic centers, calming the reaction down so you don’t feel hopeless, you’re not in the fight or flight, and your immune system, again, works better. These are doctors. This is my MD that told me this, and I already knew it, but it was amazing that he actually said that, and a therapist. Again, I knew this. It’s common knowledge is the point, but we don’t do it.   [01:42:18] Ashley James: We’re listening now.   [01:42:21] Eric Thorton: We need to do that. Right. We need to do this. We need to sit there and go, “Yeah,” whatever we’re in the middle of the seat COVID-19. We’re in it. We’ve got to do the distancing whether we like it or not, and if we don’t like it, shoot it to the moon. Go climb a tree if you don’t like it. Go hug a tree. Go for a walk. If people glare at you, give them their energy back. If they’re glaring at you because you’re within 10-feet, okay, accept that. Get away from them—or I guess it’s 6 feet. Other than that, it’s their problem, it’s not yours. Give it back to them. Go admire some moss. Ever looked at moss with a magnifying glass? It’s amazing.   [01:43:03] Ashley James: Moss is so cool.   [01:43:05] Eric Thorton: It is so cool. You ever just sat there for an hour and watched water run in a brook or a river? Or imagine yourself sitting there in a river that’s warm, and there’s no crocodiles or anything, any fish that are going to eat you. You’re just sitting there enjoying it and enjoying the smells. All you imagine is the smells. Maybe you can throw in any smell you want.   [01:43:34] Ashley James: Of nature.   [01:43:34] Eric Thorton: It just smells amazing. Of nature.   [01:43:35] Ashley James: Not of the Hudson River.   [01:43:36] Eric Thorton: Yeah, I’ll agree with you there. I’ve only flown over the Hudson River. I never swam in it. Anyway. If you can clean your imagination, it turns off the things that are going to give you all the cortisol. Helping, imagining running the energy into your friend’s heart chakra. Imagining the Sun coming up in the middle of the night. Tomorrow’s going to be another day. The sun helps cleanse the earth and gives Gaia. There are so many things to do that pull in all of the brain so that we can relax, and unwind, and get over, get through this yet another pandemic. It’s not the end of the world.   [01:44:33] Ashley James: Do they have any information right now? Because they know who’s listening because there is no time for them. What information do they have for the listeners who are listening right now?   [01:44:50] Eric Thorton: I’ve been listening to the guides through the talk, so do the things we’ve talked about. Use your tools. Use your tools. Use the things you’ve learned from your healing group. Connect with people and talk about things and imaginative. Talk about joy. When this is done, what we’re going to do? How we’re going to have fun? When this passes, there comes a time of peace and prosperity.   [01:45:29] Ashley James: Is that they’re saying?   [01:45:31] Eric Thorton: They’re saying, yes, use the tools you’ve gotten from your healing team. The people that listen to you have healing teams. It’s not a time to panic, it’s a time to rest.   [01:45:48] Ashley James: Yeah, mandatory staycation.   [01:45:52] Eric Thorton: Mandatory staycation.   [01:45:54] Ashley James: Go chill. Netflix and chill.   [01:45:57] Eric Thorton: If you can help someone that needs money, help them, buy them food. The other day I was at Whole Foods near us. This older guy, clean-cut, you can tell he didn’t have a lot of money, but he was clean, good shoes. He was just desperate. He came up to me. He goes, “My wife and I are waiting for a check from the government. It was supposed to arrive today. We have to sleep in our car tonight. Here’s our car.” Not a new car but it showed they were getting government help. He had a decent hat on, and it was clean so he wasn’t just a drug addict or anything. You could just feel they were hungry. My heart just went, “Oh my God.” I thought, “Well, okay.” My heart felt this and I needed to do something for this person. I thought, “I could.” He didn’t want money, he wanted food.” I was coming out of Whole Foods so I thought to myself, I go, “Well, I don’t really have a meal here for him.” I thought, “What can I do?” I just said, “I’m sorry. Let me think about this.” I literally got in my car and I drove to a place. I got a meal, a good-quality meal for him and his wife, not a banana, or an apple, or a bag of something, or cream corn that everybody likes to give their junk to food banks. I got them teriyaki food. I asked him if he ate meat and he said yes. I got both of them a full teriyaki chicken dinner with all the trimmings. I brought it back to them. I drove through the parking lot, and he was still there. I opened my window, and I said, “Here.” I handed in the bag. I said, “I bought you and your wife full meals because you are worth it.” He looked at me and he started to cry. I did too, I’m crying right now. It was a heart connection. He needed some help, and he wasn’t a drug addict. He wasn’t begging for money to go get another hit. It helped him through the night. I bought him that, and I bought him potato soup because maybe one of them was allergic to wheat or something and I didn’t know. I bought him something without any wheat in it. It still touches my heart. That’s what we need. The guides just reminded me of that story. We need to do this. That’s how we open up. That’s one of the ways we open up and repair the heart chakra. I hope he can pay it forward one day. I hope I can do this again for somebody else, and I will. It helps everybody.   [01:49:36] Ashley James: Beautiful. I love it. In my neighborhood, there are 270 something people in a Facebook group, just our little neighborhood. Just our little one-mile radius kind of thing. We already have posts of people saying, “Hey, let me know if you need something. I can go to the store.” Every day, there’s been a post like, “Okay, who needs something? Who’s at risk? I can run to the store for you.” I’m in a bunch of other communities, Facebook groups of other areas in my area. I’m seeing this, I’m seeing people reach out. Instead of posting fear-based scarcity posts, post love, gratitude, helping posts. Look to help others because that will get you out of stress response.   [01:50:39] Eric Thorton: I have friends that are older, and we keep in contact with them. They’re not poor. We brought them some homemade granola. I just set it on the bench in front of their house, and they had made some rosemary organic sourdough rolls, and they left a bag of that out there for us. Just an exchange, just to show we care. That opens up and heals the heart chakra.   [01:51:18] Ashley James: Yeah. The one caveat would be if either one of you would be high-risk, you could technically give each other the virus. Although you would work energetically to remove it.   [01:51:31] Eric Thorton: I also took precautions, did the precaution.   [01:51:35] Ashley James: The Naturopath I just interviewed said if you have bread, for example like those rolls, to kill a virus, you have to freeze it for three days. I didn’t know that. I thought that was really interesting. If it’s in a package, then you can wash the package. To make sure you’ve killed a virus, you have to freeze something for three days.   [01:51:57] Eric Thorton: That’s after it’s been cooked though. Cooking kills the viruses.   [01:52:01] Ashley James: Right.   [01:52:01] Eric Thorton: If you’ve handled it after you’ve cooked it and you have the virus on your hand, then you’ve got it on the rolls. There are several steps here. We took precautions in that case, and we should. I happen to know because these are friends that are also clients, so I knew they didn’t have the virus and they’re taking the precautions. I know I don’t have it right now. No one in my family has it right now. We’re good, but we still took the precautions anyway. The door didn’t open. I just rang the doorbell, it was there. I was using gloves, and we did the exchange. Those things help the heart chakra, and yes, do the precautions. If you can help someone that really needs it, do it. It’s just a kind gesture and just to allow people to feel you’re above, and you’re caring, and allow you to express it, and to receive it. That’s how we strengthen the heart chakra, and we strengthen the lungs, and we reduce anxiety. All of these things we’ve talked about today are all in the same line. We’ve heard it how many times—it’s love that cures all. It is. Without the heart chakra functioning the third chakra suffers, the second chakra suffers, your first chakra suffers, and you get sick. Yes, do everything you can to help your fellow humans and take the precautions. Because no matter what anybody says, it’s here. Stop paying attention to all the hearsay about why it’s here. It is just here and deal with it. Turn off, listen to music, read a good book. You know how beneficial reading is. Write. Creative imagination, write if you’re a writer. Even if you’re not a writer, write. It’s fun. Just don’t post it on the Internet.   [01:54:49] Ashley James: Why not?   [01:54:51] Eric Thorton: Gee, it might get lost in the crowd of crap.   [01:54:57] Ashley James: I have a list on my fridge I wrote. There’s like at least 50 things of really positive activities to do that raise my vibration, and I want to give homework to all the listeners to go sit down with a piece of paper and a fun pen and write out a list. I didn’t even use line paper, I just used a blank paper. I just wrote columns. You can write more than one page, but write out a list of everything you can do in your home or around your home that brings you joy. It could be out in nature. If you can get out into nature, if you can get out to, because a lot of the parks are closed, so you have to get creative to get out there. If you can go out in your backyard and sunbathe in your backyard. Right now, it’s spring here where I am. I know it’s still cold like on the East Coast, but you can still bundle up and get out in the sun. Write a list of everything you can do that brings you joy. I was really surprised. I gave myself this homework, and I started writing, and it gave me so much clarity to write this list. What happens is you’ll get about 7 to 12 down, usually around 9, you’ll get 9 in and you’ll draw a blank. That’s because of how the brain works. We usually only hold about 7 different thoughts in our heads.   [01:56:30] Eric Thorton: In our conscious mind.   [01:56:32] Ashley James: In the conscious mind. It clears, all of a sudden you draw blank. You ask yourself the question again, and you start thinking about it, and then another 7 will come. You’ll just have that really interesting experience of the brain emptying out and then refilling, and emptying out and refilling because your unconscious is bringing it to your consciousness.   [01:56:52] Eric Thorton: Right. One way of doing that we already talked about. You’ve come to your list of say 7 or 9 and you’re at a blank. Think about climbing that gorgeous tree out there, and all of a sudden you have a whole bunch more ideas. Think about doing cartwheels when you were a kid, or giggling until you were out of breath, and all of a sudden you got more ideas. It is because you’re pulling in the subconscious mind, the artistic part of your brain, and giving the conscious mind the ability to write something down. It’s amazing. If you just had the list of nine and you went through and visualized them all in your head, another bunch would show up, so the same thing we’re talking about. Those to-dos are real. They’ve proven it, quantum physics. They’ve proven this stuff, and we can do this, and we need to do this for our own sanity so we can all get back to, hopefully, a calmer better and life. We’ll have learned, maybe, we need to stop paying so much attention to the frustrations around the planet and pay more attention to the things that are beautiful, the things we have in common. That will help the heart chakra and our immune system as well. There’s a lot to do folks, there’s a lot to do. It’s not like we got nothing. I’m sitting here with the same fear as anybody else has. I tell people, “I will work on anybody who’s been here having a session before because otherwise, I’m going to be overrun. If you’re a client of mine and you get the virus, let me know or something else.” Because again. I am only one person, so, unfortunately, I have to set up boundaries. Maybe we can help you out and maybe we can teach you to help yourself out. I take time with you. With clients I’ve had, I don’t charge for the time. I would never take advantage of the situation. I would never charge someone to work on the pandemic because that’s completely immoral to me, but I will help anybody who I’ve worked with before. Again, that’s just a filter. It’s not an elitist thing or anything else. It’s just a filter, otherwise, I get overwhelmed, and I’ll die. If you hear this, if you got a problem, I’ve worked with a number of your listeners. I am happy to help out if you think you’ve got a problem or you know you’ve got a problem—if it’s the virus type of thing. If it’s other things, you need to process and work on things, you need another appointment. Again, I’m not going to charge to send someone healing energy or healing vibrations to work on the virus. Sometimes, I will work with people, and someone will be sick, and I’ll say, “Look, I need other people around them. I need family around them.” I said, “Call me back when you have anyone around that’s family or friends in the vicinity. If they got the coronavirus, they’re obviously not going to be in the same room, but we want to meet at this and such time because we need to harness everybody’s energy for this.” It really opens up all of their hearts and helps them all deal with this stuff, so that’s why we do this sometimes. Again, the more people, the more the intention. The more clarity, the more the person feels it, and feels held, and supported, which helps their immune system again, and opens up their heart chakra. We do different things for different people in different situations, or even the same situation will be different for different people. I’ve had someone with a child that was ill with it. I had the mom at a distance, because we’re not doing anything in person, hold the child a certain way, and then we ran the energy through it. The mom could feel it. The child could calm down. Again, I can’t make any claims here, but it goes away. It goes away. That’s what we like. For whatever reason. That’s what we want. Anyway. I don’t know where we go from here.   [02:02:20] Ashley James: I think we can wrap it up.   [02:02:23] Eric Thorton: Okay. I really hope people can do this. I’m going to work on it every day at 9:00 PM. I’m going to spend about 10 minutes. I didn’t mention the length of time on that. Maybe we should do that.   [02:02:43] Ashley James: Okay.   [02:02:44] Eric Thorton: I’ve asked everybody to, at 9:00 PM, the guides have said this to me. At 9:00 PM, your standard time, whatever time zone you’re in, 10 minutes. Just like with this book, the Power of 8. Put the intention of scrambling the matrix so it can reset itself and heal itself so that it can help Gaia kill the virus.   [02:03:12] Ashley James: Because we’re trying to override the amount of fear that has sickened the matrix, essentially.   [02:03:18] Eric Thorton: Correct, exactly. The fear is weak. You scramble it like a bacteria, it dies. Love is strong.   [02:03:28] Ashley James: So we’re not going to love into it when we’re scrambling it? We’re just scrambling it and letting Gaia reset it? This is what the guides have told you?   [02:03:38] Eric Thorton: The guides have said, “Let Gaia reset it.” No intention except to scramble it. No intention of putting healing in it, no intention of anything. God made this system for a reason, whatever you want to call God, and it works. Just like they showed me at 9/11, we can really mess things up because we think the universe needs us specifically and it doesn’t. The universe—our planet—works very well without us. We die every hundred years or so, and it’s amazing how the planet keeps going on without us in-between lives. It doesn’t need us all to do this. Sometimes we have to help the planet reset and set itself. Just put out the energy of scrambling the clouds maybe, if that’s what your imagination needs. For 10 minutes at 9:00 PM your time zone. I’m just getting it and they’re giving me 10 days. Let’s see what happens. See if there’s enough energy here to harness it. See if we can get the coronavirus numbers to start going down throughout the whole planet. See if some of the tension and the disconnect that all of these countries have right now, see if some of that goes away too. See if some of our own anxiety drops when we do this. I think it would be an amazing experiment, never done it before. I mean I helped yet the other day with it but never done anything like this before. I’ve never heard of anybody doing this, and this is what the guide said to do. Have your listeners pass it on to everybody. If the word could get out and everybody did this, I don’t know how long until this is published, but if everybody did this, it’d be an amazing thing. Just the commonality would help heal everybody’s heart chakra without even trying because of the commonality. We’re the human race working together in every country of the world. That would be pretty amazing, and I could see, energetically, the power or something like that. I’d like to see what would happen. That’s just my opinion. It’s an idea from the guides to do to suggest to everybody. I’d like to see it. I would be just as amazed as the next person.   [02:06:35] Ashley James: To wrap it up, I’d love to hear a bit more. Tell me what the guides have shown you when this is all over, that you said there’s going to be peace and prosperity. Can you elaborate on that?   [02:06:48] Eric Thorton: Whenever the human body gets out of tension, we get the massive oxytocin. Say we’re done with this in July, or June, or something like that, we still have the political problems, but the world has conquered then a major thing. There’s a common humanity there. That alone is going to give us—even the political leaders—it’s going to make them think again, “Oh my God. These people are all working together. We better be careful. We better do the right thing.” If we’re all thinking similarly and we’re all on the same thing, we all start to get back to work, and we can appreciate more than what we are having. When the appreciation goes up, the heart center vibration goes up, and everything starts to prosper more. When we’re in fear, we’re in cortisol. In those types of hormones we make wrong decisions, or misinformed decisions, or decisions we filled in the blanks on as we’ve talked about. When we come through a stressful situation, there’s a period of aura, of release, of—what’s it called when you’ve had a lot of tension—even afterglow, I guess you might call it. There is, there’s that afterglow that comes, and it lasts for quite a while. There can be a lot of prosperity, and it’ll have nothing to do with our politicians that are currently running the planet. That will only have to do with one human being helping another. That is prosperity. People feel that euphoria, and they feel free, and they start moving, and shaking, and having excitement, and ideas start to flow when this type of thing, tension ends. That’s why there is always a period of prosperity after any worldwide problem. That includes wars as well as pandemics and whatever else people can think of. Just hope we won’t screw up humanity. There’s always a period of euphoria afterward. If we pay attention to the politicians, they’re trying to get it back to the way that they have it. Where if we pay attention to what our cells, and our love, and we keep the love going, then we’re going to create a new political environment as well because they’re not going to fit it anymore. They’re not going to fit the matrix if we scrambled the matrix, for example. They will be voted out of office, and new people will come in. Good or bad, it’ll be different. There will be prosperity. Anyway.   [02:10:11] Ashley James: I like it. I like it. I said in an earlier interview this week that this last few months and the next few months, from January 1, two quarters of 2020, is going to be studied for years to come. Because we now have the ability to have such a global response and global media with the internet, with social media, with the way we’re interacting with each other, communicating with each other, and the way we’re able to share studies, statistics. We’re able to share things faster, get things done quicker. We’ll see this and we also are experiencing this meme, the whole world. I was just talking to a friend that lives in Mexico, and I asked him, “What’s the climate like?” He’s from Mexico. He’s lives near Panama, and he’s in an area I’ve never been to Mexico so I didn’t know what it’s like. What’s the culture like down there? I said, “Yeah, what’s it like down there?” He described to a tea what Seattle’s like. People are afraid. They’re stuck in their homes. They’re hoarding huge amounts of different kinds of things. He says, “No one’s freaking about toilet paper, but everyone’s buying up the Lysol. When you go to the store, you’re only allowed to buy one per person.” They’re actually enforcing people stay indoors. There’s great panic, fear, and hoarding of these items. When he was describing what’s going on down there, I was like, “Wow, that’s exactly what’s going on here in Seattle.” I just wonder how many other places in the world, how many other countries in the world are experiencing something very similar because we’re able to share these experiences around the world. When we, as a globe, conquer this virus and get to go back to “normal,” that huge relief will feel like we won almost like when we won World War II. Unfortunately, there was part of the world that didn’t win, but this time, all the countries are fighting a war. That we all have a common enemy. We’re going to have this huge relief. You’re saying that your guides have showed you a world soon where we, as a global population, have a sigh of relief, and it’s going to bring us into it a time of peace and prosperity. Hopefully, it’ll allow us to really gain perspective because we’re look back and reflect on what happened over the course of the last few months. We’re going to see how our actions impacted the ecology of the planet. Hopefully, we could learn them.   [02:13:27] Eric Thorton: Hopefully, we can learn from it. This is the one thing I’m hesitant about. Mark this because I don’t know if you’re going to want to put this out there or not. The political system is trying to—they’re saying, “Okay, we’re going to send you something in the United States. We’re going to send your money. We’re going to take care of your business so you don’t go out of business, so we can keep the economic system going, so we can keep what’s going politically.” They want to hold their political power. They are afraid. You can see it in some of these, people I can see it. They are afraid that when this global unity comes together and this euphoria from conquering this as a planet, we’re going to throw out these people that are based on fear. They want to control us with fear. They are afraid we are going to overrun them. Frankly, it could happen because once people realize that this fear has contributed to this pandemic and this division within our own families, within our communities, within our state’s in our countries, they’re going to be thinking about this going, “This isn’t how to solve the problem. The problem is to do it with love.” That to solve a problem we do it with love. We do it by supporting one another. I see this as if you look at the polling numbers, as the virus goes up, the popularity of the people in power is going down. In times of prosperity, the people that are in power, when it wasn’t prosperous, are thrown out. If you look at history, Winston Churchill was a hero during the war. Since the war was over, his point of views were based on fear. He was voted because the euphoria voted to be Prime Minister and then gone because his political points of view were no longer valid. All the politicians that are running the world right now realize that happened, and that didn’t just happen to Winston Churchill, it happened all over the entire world after World War II. This is why the politicians are going, “We got to get back to work. We’ve got to get the country back to work.” Because they’re afraid of exactly what we just talked about.   [02:16:39] Ashley James: Once we’re out of fear will let turnaround and not resonate with these fear-based messages they’re trying to sell us.   [02:16:47] Eric Thorton: Right. That’s a huge thing. That’s why you see the medical system arguing with the political system. The political system wants this, “No, no, no, no, no,” so people don’t have time to deal with this. They want a solution, they want an immunization, so people can’t solve it spiritually through love. They can keep controlling them. The medical system is going, “No, this is going to take months. The political system is going, “No, we got to be back on target by Easter.” It’s like, “Well, okay.” They want it on target by Easter so that they can maintain the control, the political control. Because the longer this goes and it’s out of control of these people in politics, it makes them look really bad. People will look at that and they’re going to change the regimes. Again, I don’t know if you want this portion in there or not.   [02:18:07] Ashley James: Oh, yeah. That’s interesting. I think it’s all very interesting. It gives us a good perspective, get the 30,000-foot view. We’re going to pull out of this. We need to do our part now to rise above the fear, help our communities, help ourselves. Practice the social distancing so that we protect those who are vulnerable: the smokers, the people who are over 65, people who are nutrient-deficient, people are immune-compromised. They’re going to be ones that are hit hard. What’s interesting—one of the things that one of my guests said earlier this week is—they need us to self-quarantine as much as possible so that they can catch up and have enough ventilators. Most of the population will be asymptomatic, but the percentage of people—and they keep throwing around numbers, we don’t know the accuracy of them. 20% that end up in the hospital, 5% and up in ICU, and they still don’t have enough ventilators. They’re busy making them.   [02:19:26] Eric Thorton: Right, but that’s what the numbers they have.   [02:19:27] Ashley James: Those are the numbers they have.   [02:19:28] Eric Thorton: One of the things I’ve seen with them dragging their feet with testing is if they tested everybody they could create a graph showing just how big this has become, and everybody would panic. When most of us don’t have symptoms, and they won’t be a problem, but we would still test positive. It creates even more panic.   [02:20:00] Ashley James: Right. Because the majority of people will be asymptomatic. There are also false positives. I’ve been looking at studies. That there’s something like 9% of the coronavirus tests are false positives. Plus, they can’t, they don’t have the ability to test the whole population. Those are billions of people. We can’t test everyone.   [02:20:30] Eric Thorton: It’s not necessary, and it would panic everybody anyway because most people are going to be asymptomatic. If they find out everybody has it around them, everyone’s going to be panicked even more, and then more people will get sick because it causes so much anxiety. I’m going, “Heck, if you don’t have symptoms, don’t be tested. Just stay away in case you have it, to social distance.   [02:20:58] Ashley James: Social distancing, focus on gratitude, focus on love. If you live in a household with other people and everyone’s healthy in your household, do cuddling and hugging because that also increases the immune system. We need to protect the vulnerable in our population, and deliver them food, keep them safe. The doctor I interviewed said, “By July this will be gone because this virus—viruses in general—is very sensitive to heat. That’s why in Hawaii, which they’ve shut down Hawaii. No tourism, they’ve shut it down. I just yesterday spoke with a woman, one of my guests who lives in Hawaii. She said you have to be under quarantine for 14 days before you’re allowed to come to Hawaii, and you can’t really do anything or go anywhere when you’re in Hawaii now because it’s shut down. There’s a very low proliferation rate.   [02:21:56] Eric Thorton: Right. It doesn’t like heat or humidity.   [02:21:59] Ashley James: It doesn’t like it. Whereas in Boston, they’re getting more of a spread. Here it’s been very cold. It’s been irregularly cold for this time of year for us in Seattle, and so it’s spreading faster in the colder regions. If you’re in Las Vegas, for example, you’re always in AC. There are places where you think it’s warm, but everyone’s always in buildings spreading the virus with each other. Get out in the heat. When it heats up in the summertime, it’s going to die down. This is something we need to tell help each other for the next few months. Get in gratitude and love.   [02:22:39] Eric Thorton: Right. If people go back to work too early, the way the politicians want it, it’s just going to start another round of it. That’s why the head of the CDC is telling our leaders, “Probably won’t happen by Easter.” It’s got to be long enough that we don’t reinfect when we all go back to work. It may take a few payments from the government. Anyway. Set the intention for 9:00 PM your standard time, your specific time, and scramble the matrix, however, you can imagine it in your head. Do it for 10 minutes.  [02:23:30] Ashley James: Ten minutes and then focus on love as much as possible throughout the day, gratitude, write down a list of everything you could do in your home that brings you joy, figure out how you can help your community, stay safe, and stay sane. Don’t give in to the fear but give in to the love as much as possible. We will get through this.  I love that the guides have told you, we are going to come into a time of prosperity and peace after this. I learned something from Tony Robbins several years ago that’s really helped me in my life, and my husband as well. It’s in times of desperation asking what’s good about this. It’s not to belittle it, you know what I mean? Let’s say I had cancer—knock-on-wood, thank God I don’t. Let’s say I had cancer, asking, “What’s good about this?” is like, “What can I learn from this? How can I shift my mind from it?” This virus is like we’re all affected by it in one way or another, but what is good about this?   [02:24:36] Eric Thorton: That brings in the whole brain’s thinking power when you ask that question. It calms you down, it calms the conscious fears down. Soon as you ask a question like that, Tony Robbins understands how three-dimensional thinking works. He’s saying, “Get away from your fears.” He’s got human problems like everybody else, okay, but he’s right on this. If you bring in your imagination instead of sitting there trying to figure it out, you bring in just like what you said, all of a sudden you’re thinking three-dimensionally, it calms you down, and brings up your immune system.  He is correct, and that’s beautiful. That’s exactly right. There are a few other groups like Tony Robbins used to do, I don’t know if he’s still doing it, that promote the imagination. You get a full three-dimensional thinking process so you calm down. Do that. Do all the things that we just suggested. We’re having this ride. You have a choice. You can either be angry, upset about it, or you can be neutral about it, or you can find everything positive you can. It’s your choice. That one second is going to go by and so is the next one, and so is the next one, and so is the next one, whether you choose A, B, or C. If you need help, don’t be afraid to ask for help. If you see someone that needs help, help them. It heals the heart chakra, and it increases your immune system, drops all the cortisol, and all the things we’ve talked about. We need to be kinder, we need to be softer, we need to step back from this machine that has been going on for three and a half years and go now. Sit back, launch it to the moon, and yeah, you need a little information, but you don’t need to dwell in it. Anyway.   [02:27:21] Ashley James: Just to clarify with the practice of scrambling, what about people who are like Reiki masters who want to send healing love to the planet? Is that helpful? Because we’re all adding our own intention, which is just making it worse.   [02:27:41] Eric Thorton: Right. What one person thinks is healing love is different than another person’s because we’re all different. Every one of us is a different frequency. We can’t literally put out the same frequencies. We have to trust, have a little faith that the universe will work in spite of human interference, and if we can lessen the human interference.  I’ve been shown this so many times like the story I told of 9/11. I’ve been showed it so many times that our egos prevent the universe, if you will, or work against preventing the universe from straightening itself out. It is designed to do that. The universe does not need me, it doesn’t need you, it doesn’t need any healer on this planet in any way shape or form in order to heal people. We are points of contact between the angels—healers are points of contact between the angels, and guides, and humans, and other beings because we live in this realm, so we operate best in this realm. Like me, when I astral project somewhere, it takes me a while till someone can actually see me. It’s worked for an angel to be in our realm so we can see it. It’s harder for it to work, so they use healers all over the world basically as a fuse between that realm where they exist in the realm where we exist. If we let it work instead of thinking the almighty human is going to solve everything in the universe and God has to have us in order for the universe to heal. If we stop that egoic thought, and we stop putting our own agenda to the energy we’re putting out here is what they’re asking us to do. Just a unified agenda of scrambling the matrix so it can reset itself, so that it can heal the virus, and the planet, and the people within it. Again, I’ve never heard this thought before. The guides just gave it to me.   [2:30:14] Ashley James: Yeah, the guides just you, right?   [02:30:16] Eric Thorton: They told it to me. It was three days ago. I was just phenomenal. I was literally—what is it called—gob struck or something like that.   [02:30:27] Ashley James: Gobsmacked.   [02:30:28] Eric Thorton: I was like, “Oh my God.” I just went, “Oh my god. That’s what you’ve been showing me over the years, but now you’re putting it on a larger scale,” and they’re going, “Yeah.”   [02:30:43] Ashley James: Cool. All right. Let’s do it. Let’s do it and see what happens.   [02:30:46] Eric Thorton: Let’s do it.   [02:30:47] Ashley James: Thank you so much, Eric. It’s always a pleasure having you here.   [02:30:51] Eric Thorton: Thank you. Thank you.   [02:30:53] Ashley James: Yeah. Just getting out there. My show Learn True Health podcast focuses on health, but health is not just physical health, it’s emotional, mental, spiritual, energetic, and its health of your whole life. I have had interviews with wonderful marriage counselors, with physical therapists, with Naturopathic doctors, with you. It’s encompassing everything to do without your whole life.  Having you on the show, really, I was so worried that people would take it the wrong way, and instead, I had a flood of listeners saying that your interviews have been the missing key in their life. That your interviews have been so significant to make their life make sense. I definitely encourage listeners to go back.   [02:31:46] Eric Thorton: Thank you.   [02:31:47] Ashley James: You’re welcome. Go back and listen to my past interviews with Eric. You can go to ericthorton.com. It’s Eric with a C, ericthorton.com. There’s a tab or something that says interviews, and if you click there, you just get actually redirected back to my website, which shows you all of the interviews that we’ve done together. You can just search Eric Thorton on my website at learntruehealth.com, and it allows you to go back.  Listen to the earlier ones, especially the first one. All of them are great, my favorite one though is when you share the story of your life. What a unique life you’ve lived. It’s very cool, but it gives us hope that there’s more here than the mainstream wants us to focus on. This is a spiritual world, we are spiritual beings, and that we can use our intention, our attention, our focus, prayer, energy, thought. That we can use all of that to affect our health and the quality of our life.   [02:32:56] Eric Thorton: I want to say something to you too. Without you doing the interviewing, it wouldn’t be here. You’re doing a wonderful service to the world.   [02:33:06] Ashley James: Thank you.   [02:33:08] Eric Thorton: I think your listeners need to appreciate that too. They need to tell you that.   [02:33:13] Ashley James: I feel the appreciation. We just got to keep sharing it and getting it out there. Got to help as many people as we can.   [02:33:20] Eric Thorton: We’re not perfect. People comment this, that, or the other. Nobody’s perfect, but you know something? You’re doing a service. I’m a part of it, and so are all the other people you’re interviewing. It’s a wonderful service and keep doing it. It’s great.   [02:33:41] Ashley James: Thank you. I’d really like to see this get as big as it can and help as many people as possible, so please share these interviews with those you love so we can help as many people as possible. For me, I want to see this take off. We are reaching thousands of people, and I want to reach hundreds of thousands of people so we could help more people. Because more people need to know this information that the body has an amazing ability to heal itself. That they can heal. They can use food as medicine, they can supplement, and fill in the gaps. That there are natural remedies out there that are even better than drugs.   [02:34:23] Eric Thorton: Yes.   [02:34:25] Ashley James: I’ve had listeners write to me and say, “I never knew what a Naturopath was, but now I’m seeing one because of your show.” I’ve had several emails over the last four years. I’ve been doing this podcast since 2016. I’ve had several emails say, “I was in pre-med to become an MD and I’ve switched. I’m now going to become a Naturopath. I never knew that Naturopathy was a choice, but I learned about it through your podcast.” That to me is such a big win that people are learning about chiropractors, about acupuncturists, about in Naturopaths, about osteopaths, about functional-based medicine. They didn’t even know those tools were available to them.   [02:35:11] Eric Thorton: That’s why I’m so glad you’re doing this because it truly takes a village. It’s not just a cliché statement. It truly does, and it takes a global village sometimes. Right now is one of those times. I hope you can get this podcast out real soon.   [02:35:35] Ashley James: I will, yeah. It’s going to be episode 422. I’ll get it out next week, so listeners who are listening know that it’s really fresh. We’ll get it out there. Thank you so much, Eric, for coming on the show. As always, it’s a pleasure.   [02:35:49] Eric Thorton: Thank you. Thank you. It’s been great.   Get Connected With Eric Thorton! Official Website Facebook YouTube Recommended Reading by Eric Thorton Educating the Souls, Spiritual Healing and our Eternal Psychology   Check out other interviews of Eric Thorton! Episode 386: Microdosing Psilocybin Mushrooms Therapy Episode 380: Understanding Your Aura Episode 375: Spiritual Healing In The Real World Episode 359: Lives Of Discovery Episode 336: Energetic Boundaries (Part II) Episode 335: Energetic Boundaries Episode 327: Spiritual Healing

TrueHealthEating.com   How To Stop Nighttime Eating And Cravings https://www.learntruehealth.com/how-to-stop-nighttime-eating-cravings   Highlights: Use hard and fast rule when it comes to eating Addictive patterns can be changed if you want to Intervene and make rules for yourself that would dictate healthy behavior and eliminate decision-making Eight-part protocol to stop nighttime eating Control impulses with discipline   Are you finding yourself eating more and more throughout the day because there’s nothing much to do these days? Are you struggling with overeating or nighttime eating? In this episode, Dr. Glenn Livingston is back on the show with us, and he talks about his pig and pigula. He also shares some tips on how to overcome overeating   [0:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 423. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Dr. Glenn Livingston. Glenn was in episode 56, 249, and 231, so it’s been a while since you’ve been on the show. Although it just feels like yesterday. It’s amazing, time—although linear—doesn’t feel linear, does it Glenn?   [0:00:41] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It goes by so quickly. I think the last time I was on this show I had all my hair and teeth.   [0:00:48] Ashley James: And you still do?   [0:00:50] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I still do, yeah.   [0:00:52] Ashley James: Okay, good.   [0:00:55] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It was back in the days when I had all my hair and teeth. Time goes really quickly.   [0:01:02] Ashley James: Yes it does. When we had you on the show last—episode 231—you had just published your second book. Now listeners can get a free copy of your book Never Binge Again  by going to truehealtheating.com. That’s truehealtheating.com. Your book is fantastic. One of our listeners—I should have pulled up the actual quote in our Facebook group. We have a Learn True Health Facebook group. One of our listeners—after listening to episodes with you—said, “Tonight is the first night I ate dinner without anxiety.” She was like, “This is no kidding. I have never felt at peace while eating. This is my first experience feeling at peaceful while eating.” She made me cry. She was so grateful for the information. Some people don’t even know their constant anxiety around food. There’s the constant pressure and stress around food, and all the emotions wrapped up around food, that’s their norm. When they go through your literature, your workshop, all your information, your free book they gain a sense of peace with food.   [0:02:21] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Does my heart good, really does my heart good. There’s misinformation in the culture about how to develop a peaceful relationship with food. Most people think we’re supposed to use guidelines like, “I avoid chocolate 90% of the time.” It’s a good guideline. It’s a good idea in theory. It’s like a good North Star to shoot for, but the problem with it is that every time you’re in front of a chocolate bar there’s this little voice inside you that says, “Is this part of the 10% or is this part of the 90%? Am I being good or am I being bad?” It’s almost like having a little kid and they see a candy bar in your hand. “Mommy, can I? Mommy, can I? How about now? How about now? How about now?” Because they know that sometimes they can. Whereas if you use the hard and fast rule and you said, “Well, I’ll only ever have chocolate on the last three days of the calendar month.” You’d still be avoiding chocolate 90% of the time but your decisions would have been made for you, and there’d be no reason for that little kid to keep asking all month long until the 27th. You’d have a newfound peace with food having made really hard and fast decisions about what role the chocolate was going to play in your life. You wouldn’t be constantly struggling with all these thoughts of maybe I should and maybe I shouldn’t, which is what ruins people’s relationship with food. I think that information is just that out there. When people adopt it, and they create a very clear rule, and they declare themselves confident they actually become confident. That voice shuts up eventually.   [0:04:06] Ashley James: To be able to have that peace where the voice isn’t all the time there. Some people have had that for so long they don’t even believe that’s possible. You’re saying that going through the work they can get to a place where that voice doesn’t control them anymore.   [0:04:22] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I suffered for 30 years. My life was about, “When am I going to get to the deli? When can I get to the pizza place? How much chocolate will I have? How will I stop? How will I make up for it? How will I hide the evidence? How much weight am I going to gain? Will anybody notice? Will I be able to see patients when I’m all charged up on chocolate?” That was my life. I’d be sitting with a suicidal patient and I’ll be thinking, “I want a chocolate Pop-Tarts.” Thankfully, I never lost anybody. I was really dedicated, but really I was not 100% present because I was very drained and distracted by these constant thoughts about food. Once I discovered that there is a way to find peace, which it didn’t require me to solve all my emotional problems. Yeah, I was going to chocolate because I was lonely and depressed. I was in a bad marriage. I didn’t really have a lot of satisfaction in my life. That was all true, but it didn’t have to solve all that to stop bingeing on chocolate. I just had to be really clear about the rules, be clear about what that underlying voice of justification was that said, “You worked out hard enough so you can have chocolate even it’s not the last calendar three days of the month.” Or “Chocolate comes from a cocoa bean, which is a plant and therefore it’s a vegetable.” Or whatever that voice was saying. Once I learned that I could hear that and ignore it or logically refute it, then I found peace. I wish I had love in my life. I wish I was coupled at this point. I still struggle with some of those things. I still have loneliness and brokenhearted moments and everything like that, but I don’t have to binge anymore.   [0:06:15] Ashley James: You don’t have to go to food to medicate it, to numb the pain of feeling lonely.   [0:06:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Yes, that’s true. I think that the self-medication paradigm is only half the story. I think that in it of itself it fuels overeating. The actual paradigm that I’m eating for comfort, I’m eating to numb myself out because I’m unhappy, and uncomfortable with my life, and it’s the only thing I’ve learned how to self-soothe. When people tell me that, for example, they’re eating too much chocolate to numb out, I’ll say, “That’s really interesting. Have you ever been to the dentist to fill a cavity?” They all say, “Yeah.” Because most people have had a cavity. I say, “Well, did the dentist say to you, ‘I’m out of novocaine. I think I’m going to inject you with some chocolate instead, is that okay?’” The point of that is that chocolate is not really something that has a numbing effect. Donuts, dentist is not going to inject you with donuts either, or bagels, or potato chips, or any of the other things that people supposedly turn to for comfort. The point I’m trying to make is that there’s another impact of the artificially counterfeited sources of pleasure we call comfort. That impact is a food high. You’re having chocolate because it’s a concentration of theobromine, and caffeine, and sugar, and fat, and vanilla, and all sorts of other good-tasting neurological stimulants that give you the feeling like you’re in love and really change your perception of the world like a drug. It’s perfectly legal. I’ll fight for your right to do it if you want to do it. I’m not saying we have to eliminate chocolate, but it is a drug. Part of the reason that we’re having it is to get high with food. We’re not just numbing out we’re getting high with food. That is a paradigm people need to shift to if they really want to stop overeating. Because if you think you’re just eating for comfort or to numb yourself out, you’re going to want to be empathetic to that lizard brain voice inside of you. When it says, “Eat, eat, eat,” you’re going to go, “Here you go, poor baby. Poor baby, you need a hug.” There are two problems with that. First of all, the part of the brain that responds to food addiction—which is the same part of the brain that’s responsible for the feast and famine response, for the fight-or-flight response—it’s a very primitive reptilian part of the brain. When it evolved, it didn’t really know love. Here we are thinking that food addiction has everything to do with not being loved enough, not offering yourself enough self-love, but the lizard brain doesn’t really know love. It looks at something in the environment and it says, “What am I supposed to do with that thing? Do I eat it, do I mate with it, or do I kill it?” That’s the level—that’s the primitive level—at which the lizard brain operates. We’re all here trying to love it out of its impulse. What we should be doing is dominating it instead. It’s like your bladder. Your bladder forces for expression. It says, “You really got to pee. You got to pee right now.” You say, “Oh, wait a minute. I’m in charge. I’m in a meeting now. I’ll definitely take care of you later, but I’m going to do it in a particular way at a particularly time of my choosing.” I’m very comfortable with that impulse, not at all frightened of it. I know that I’ll give myself a bathroom break in an hour and a half or so if I need it or sooner if I have to. As a civilized human being, I go about my day. I don’t compulsively pee in the street or in the middle of a meeting. People are very mixed up about how you’re supposed to handle the impulse to overeat. They don’t think of it is a pure biological impulse that they’ve developed a very bad habit around. They think of it as the manifestation of an emotional conflict. They think of it as associated with all these loving memories with their mother, or the grandparents, or their dad. As a result, you could spend 30 years in psychotherapy trying to work through all your innermost conflicts. You might get a lot of benefit out of working through your innermost conflicts in psychotherapy, but if you’re like me, I did that. I became a very soulful person. I think it’s a big part of who I am, but it didn’t stop me from overeating. I binge my way through 30 years of psychotherapy. That’s why I think we need to shift paradigms from self-medication to getting high with food and from the love yourself thin paradigm to the alpha wolf paradigm which says, “Look, this thing in my brain—this primitive part of my brain, my feast or famine response—it’s challenging me for leadership in the same way that a lower member of a wolf pack might challenge the alpha wolf. When the alpha wolf is challenged in a wolf pack—challenge for leadership—it doesn’t say, “Oh my goodness. Someone needs a hug. Come here you, poor baby. Let me take care of you. Let me feed you.” The alpha wolf growls, and snarls, and says, “Get back in line or I’ll kill you.” My big discovery was that I had to break out of this love myself thin paradigm and into this alpha wolf paradigm where I just refuse to let my lizard brain take control.   [0:12:19] Ashley James: This part of the brain that is responsible for mating, killing, and eating for survival because that’s all we have to do to make sure that we can pass on our genetic code to the next generation. Eat to stay alive, and mate to reproduce, and then kill to survive, and eat. Why does that part of the brain want to overeat? Why doesn’t everyone overeat?   [0:12:54] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Most people do overeat at times beyond their best judgment. There are other people who choose other vices. People do too much marijuana, or they get involved in negative sexual relationships, or they get involved with gambling, or some other type of impulsive vice. Most people struggle with the lizard brain’s expression in some way. What was the first part of the question again? Why doesn’t everyone overeat? Ask me the question again, I’m sorry.   [0:13:28] Ashley James: That part of the brain that’s responsible for us to mate, eat, and kill—that very basic instinctive level—why does it want to binge?   [0:13:42] Dr. Glenn Livingston: There are several reasons. It’s a really good question. They all involve the idea that a biological error has been made. The reptilian brain has been made to think and made to really believe that the binge food is like oxygen and it’s required for survival. If you think about where we evolved in the tropics—kind of depends upon your theory of the world, I’ve done a lot of reading on nutrition and the human diet—and I really believe that we were evolved to eat mostly fruit, leafy greens, and an occasional handful of nuts or seeds. That’s what I think we really evolved to. Some people would add wild game in there. It’s very rare that you see people bingeing on fruit and leafy green vegetables—whole, fresh, ripe for our fruits and leafy green vegetables—very few people binge on that. Most people binge on industrially concentrated foods. A bag of potato chips, or pizza, or pasta, or some concentrated form of starch, or sugar, or fat, or salt, or excitotoxins that wouldn’t be found in nature, is triggering the part of a brain that says, “This is where you can find an ultra-dense source of calories and nutrition,” even though the nutrition isn’t really there. The brain makes a biological error, and it says, “Well, why would I continue going after fruits and vegetables when there are so many more calories available for so much less effort in such a much smaller space over here.” Then these things are made to be convenient, and they’re packaged up to look like they’re nutritious. One of my classic stories is working with the VP of Marketing for a major food party manufacturer. They told me that their most profitable insight was to take the vitamins out of the bar and put the money into making the packaging look very diverse and colorful instead because in nature, a shiny diversity of colors would indicate a diversity of nutrition that was available. Think of a salad with purple cabbage, and yellow carrots, and deep green arugula, or spinach, or romaine lettuce, or something like that, and blueberries, and cherries, whatever you want to put in that salad. Those colors are a signal for a diversity of nutrients that are available. What this guy was telling me was that they actually figured out a way to trigger the part of the brain that responds to that diversity of nutrients but they did it with less nutrients. That happens all over the place. The brain finds the calories. If I see calories and so it says, “There’s got to be something.” It says, “Well, wait a minute. There’s not enough nutrition.” It creates this pleasurable but empty experience. That’s why I say people are looking for love at the bottom of a bag, or a box, or container. You can’t ever really find satisfaction there, but you can find craving that creates more craving that creates more craving. That’s what drug addicts would call chasing the dragon. You can’t really get to the satiation level and so you just keep craving more and more and more. There’s this loop of confusion. What tends to happen is because the brain has made this biological error and is now going after the wrong stimulus, it’s not actually getting the nutrition that it needs which sets up more craving. Since the brain has now learned that it’s supposed to go after this alternate source of craving, it starts to down-regulate its interest in fruits and vegetables where the real nutrition is. Most people who are struggling with obesity or overeating will say they don’t really love fruits and vegetables. They know you have to eat more fruit and vegetables to really lose weight but they don’t love them. It’s just a downward cycle. Then the advertising is really strong to support that notion. The addiction treatment industry says that you can’t quit even if you want to. The best you could do is abstain one day at a time, which is not true. People can change their addictive patterns if they want to. It’s nothing more than a very, very, very bad habit that’s in a very, very, very well worn [inaudible 00:18:57]. The experience of addiction is the experience of powerlessness. You really believe that you don’t have a choice, but you do have a choice. That’s what’s going on in our world today. I’ll give you a very practical solution. You probably find that after you eat your binge food that you’re presently thinking about the next time you’re going to have the binge food and you’re craving shifts more towards that food. If you want to retrain your biology to crave what it’s supposed to crave, if you force yourself to have—assuming there’s no medical reason that you can’t have, there are some people who can’t have greens—but if you throw away half-pound of leafy green vegetables—I like romaine lettuce or sometimes with kale juice—you throw that in the blender with some water and you drink it down like it was a vitamin just like medicine, you’ll find that suddenly you’re craving the binge food less. The reason for that is you’re showing your survival drive that genuine nutrition is actually available and you’re showing where it’s available. It stops the obsession. It’s another way that you find more peace with food. Part of the philosophy is to intervene and make rules for yourself that would dictate healthy behavior and eliminate decision-making, like we talked about before. The other half of this to figure out, “What is the biological error that my brain isn’t making, and what does my body with authentically need instead?” That’s why I always say that I got off of chocolate, not just by saying, “I’ll never have chocolate again.” I started out with 90% of the time, but I eventually evolved to never having it again. I didn’t really do it just by saying, “I’ll never have chocolate again.” I also did it by running to a banana kale smoothie whenever I had the chocolate craving.   [0:21:08] Ashley James: Even if people say, “Oh, I hate vegetables,” or, “I don’t like vegetables,” or whatever. You take it like a medicine, suck it up, and throw it in a blender, and drink it fast, or whatever. It’s telling the brain, “Here’s where the good nutrition is,” and then you start getting less and less cravings. Sometimes, people start noticing that they’re craving kale, they’re craving greens, they’re craving oranges, and tomatoes. They just start craving plants because that’s where the majority of our minerals and pretty much all of our vitamins are going to come from. By eating whole plants, we could retrain our brain, but that’s where the nutrition is going to come from. Of course. They have created Frankenfoods that hijack the brain because salt, sugar, and fat all trigger the brain to want more of it. They figured out how to hijack it. I interviewed a woman—I might have mentioned this before in a previous interview with you—but I interviewed a woman who called herself a food sommelier because she was actually a chemist who for many years worked in the food industry—something like four Doritos, one of those companies. There’s this new flavor of—I’m just going to say Doritos because it’s one of these brands that’s like Pringles or something. Everyone knows this brand—Cheetos—whatever it was. Her team was responsible for creating new flavors. They did experiments and they were very excited about this. I asked, “Was there any point like an evil like maniacal overlord come down from the CEO office who clearly had a pact with Satan. Like there’s some evil about these companies. They really want to hurt people. Was there ever a time where you felt like there’s this evil agenda?” She said, “No. The scientists geek out on how can we make this food craveable? How can we make this food addictive? How can we make this food trigger the brain even more, hype up the excitement centers of the brain even more? How can we make this food be edible crack?” They weren’t looking at the ethicacy at all. They were encouraged and they were rewarded for making something fun. They felt like they were making an amusement park for the mouth. This is innocent and it’s very compartmentalized. These scientists work together and they got so excited when they could figure out that the certain chemical makeup—this new chemical makeup, new flavor, new type of oil mixed with some kind of hybridized salt and sugar could trigger us in an even more addictive way. Then the food company gets so excited because they’re making lots of money and people are you know wanting to eat more and more of it. Then the scientists feel like they’ve done the job. She eventually left that company coming to her wits, coming back to reality, realizing that she was a part of a system that was definitely creating harm in the world when she looked around and realized that one in three people are obese, or have diabetes, and we’re going down the wrong path. She started getting into whole foods and started getting into plants, but she saw that you could then take the same principles as they did in the lab and apply it to eating healthy food. How can I make this kale be so delicious and so healthy? We can. We can do that. We have to understand that these packaged foods are delicious for a reason. They have scientists who study our brains and figure out how to make us be addicted to it. It’s like the cigarette industry and the alcohol industry. I just feel like maybe 100 or 500 years from now, eventually, they will have the same restrictions, the same warning on packaged food as they do on cigarettes. It’s already happened in California. People are going to get it. We’re going to wake up one day. People have to wake up one day and see that these packaged foods are harming them and they’re trying to hijack that part of our brain that wants to overeat. It’s our responsibility to be in control of our brains. You give us the tools on how to do that in a very systematic way. One thing I wanted to address is something you brought up in a past interview. It was a really big aha moment for me and for many listeners. You’ve talked about your story and how you have a memory that made you love chocolate or had you associate chocolate with love. Then you spent years and years trying to heal it, and years in therapy, but when you figured out your system for just being in charge of, like you said, the alpha wolf. Just commanding the urges in you and being able to override it and logically have rules set up so that in your mind you control it. You noticed that it didn’t matter whether you’d healed the past or not because you could stop bingeing without actually having to do the work. Although doing the work is very rewarding and we should all invest on our own personal growth. What I got was that in the brain—let’s say it’s some event that you associate love with chocolate when you’re 5 or whatever—that root cause is still in there with all the work to be done on it. But then you start a habit of eating chocolates—let’s say overeating or binge eating. That habit—although may have originally come from this root cause when you’re five—actually separates from it in your mind and they become two separate things. So if you heal the root cause—you heal that thing that happened when you were 5—you still have the ingrained habit. So it’d be two separate things. For so many people, we’re told that if only you heal the root cause then you would stop doing these behaviors, but it’s not the case. The hardwired behaviors that we need to override and reprogram ourselves become separate things from their root cause. We should work on both. Let’s first work on gaining control of the system and then doing hours or years of therapy to heal.   [0:28:33] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It’s like if there’s a raging fire in your house the first thing you do is not to say, “Well, who set the fire? How did this fire start?” You don’t want to spend a year figuring out how the fire started. You don’t want to be a detective at that point, you want to be a fireman. You want to put out the fire. Then, if you want to go look and figure out what caused the fire that’s okay. The fire has a life of its own once it’s burning. You need to put out or contain the fire. That makes sense?   [0:29:06] Ashley James: Absolutely.   [0:29:08] Dr. Glenn Livingston: What I wanted to say—which really struck me—was the idea that there’s some evil CEO who’s coming down and saying, “Yes, I will take the blood and tears of all of these people that I’m addicting so I can laugh all the way to the bank.” How it’s not really like that. It’s a byproduct of the capitalist economic system. Winston Churchill once said that capitalism was the worst form of government except for all the others. I don’t know of a better form of government than capitalism, but I do know that it puts the onus on the consumer to be aware of what the motivations of the people on the other side of the transaction are. Of course, scientists who are getting rewarded for geeking out on how to maximally excite these centers of the brain are going to focus their life energy on doing that. They’re thinking even of themselves as good people. They’re saying, “This is just really fun. Anything in moderation is okay.” Ignoring the fact that they’re making it difficult for anyone to moderate it. What you also need to know is that the market as a whole—consumers in particular—they like good news about their bad habits. They’re asking to be lied to. They want and they want an excuse to have as many calories in the smallest places possible for the least amount of money possible. They want to be told that it’s healthy. That’s why you could find some potato chip that’s made with avocado oil, and people think that that’s healthy for you. They ignore the fact that every study that’s ever done on heated fats says that it’s carcinogenic. That the acrylamides that were formed by frying the chip are also carcinogenic. That the particular kind of oil—once it’s fried—might clog your arteries anyway. Say, “Now with avocado oil.” They want to say, “Avocados are healthy. I could do some avocado oil.” It’s very easy to get that by consumers because consumers want to be lied to. Where this leaves us is with the necessity of doing some serious thought for ourselves. An investigation into what’s healthy, what’s not, and then where’s your personal line. Everybody draws a line between live fast and die young—the Hell’s Angels philosophy or I think James Dean said, “Live fast die young and leave a good-looking corpse. Live slow and enjoy the ride.” Most people will say, “Well I don’t want to be an angel and if I died five years earlier or if I suffer a little at the end of my life because of the choices I make in my 20s then I want to enjoy my 20s more. I think that’s okay. Everybody’s got the right to make that choice, but you need to think through what trade-offs are you making and what role do you want these foods to play in your life? I’m not saying we should never have chocolate. There are a lot of people who can have chocolate on the weekends. My sister can take two little squares out of her purse and say, “I’m going to fold the wrist up for later.” She puts it all back in her purse. I don’t understand how she does it but she does that. God bless her. She likes the trade-off. It works for her. Certain chocolates are better than other chocolates. There’s dark chocolate, and there’s chocolate with dairy chocolate, without dairy. I’m not a nutritionist, I’m not going to make those arguments. What I’m saying is that you can’t rely on industry and government to protect you from their profit motive that is an industry and government. You really need to think through what role you want these foods to play for yourself. You need to investigate to figure out what the truth really is because the more you investigate, the more surprised you’re going to be at what’s actually healthy versus what you’re being told is healthy. That’s why I love the brand of your show by the way—Learn True Health. We’re just in a situation where it’s a perfect storm. Part of it is because we’ve really embraced freedom. You really can’t have a free country without the capitalist system. You can’t have it be overly controlled. A byproduct of a capitalist industry is things that are not necessarily good for the populace, they’re desired for the populace. Industry will make whatever’s most desirable, not whatever is healthiest. It’s up to you as the consumer to decide where that healthy line is for yourself.   [0:34:12] Ashley James: We must vote with our fork. There was once a time when there is some weird hormone. There’s four letters like HR something BC or whatever. I can’t remember the name of it right now, but it’s on all the dairy products. It says no such-and-such a hormone. I don’t buy dairy products. I’ve been dairy-free for a long time. If I did buy dairy products I’d probably know this name, but this hormone used to be in all the dairy because they would put it in all the cows. They would basically hop the cows up. They do give cows other things that are in your milk that are very, very scary, but this one particular hormone was shown to cause negative health results to humans. It was passed on through the milk and then whoever was drinking it or eating the dairy products was getting that hormone. It was making it so they could make more milk. The industry wanted to keep this hormone in, but the consumers didn’t. Now, how do you think us as individual consumers changed the entire dairy industry? We voted with our fork. The largest a voice in that will surprise you—Walmart. Walmart noticed that their consumers were not buying the dairy products—significantly less sales were going on with the dairy that had the hormone in it. So Walmart was one of the companies that lobbied to only provide the hormone-free—this specific hormone-free dairy. As a result—because we voted with our fork—the companies took notice and they followed the trend. We have to—as individuals and also—spread this information. We as individuals need to vote with our fork because it does matter because these companies will follow suit. So just to recap, when we have cravings, we can take food—maybe we don’t necessarily like kale. I use kale as an example because some people really hate it. We can take a healthy vegetable and feed it to ourselves even though we don’t like it. We’re adults, we can suck it up for the three minutes we’re tasting the flavor. We can just do it.   [0:36:38] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It can be three seconds in the case of a blender full of romaine lettuce and a little water. You can get a half a pound of romaine lettuce into you in three seconds if you blend it up and drink it down.   [0:36:50] Ashley James: So for the seconds that we’re tasting it what we’re really doing is retraining our neurology to start enjoying or to get that the nutrients are actually coming from over here and then you’ll start to enjoy it more. I had this experience with kale, never really liked kale, and then my friend started making it. So I started trying it because in the last few years it’s been the superfood. Then I started noticing that when I saw kale in the grocery store I’d have a Pavlovian response that I’d actually start salivating. I think about kale, “Oh, I’m going to make a kale boat for lunch,” and then I start salivating. I noticed that my body was actually getting excited at the thought of having kale. I make this great kale boat where I take Dino kale, which can be like a taco, and then I do some kind of stir-fry sometimes with maybe a handful of cashews, and some beets, and some celery, and some cabbage, and mushrooms and some seasoning like taco seasoning or whatever, and maybe some onions. Just stir fry it up, and then you put it in the kale like it’s a taco, and then you eat it. It’s very crunchy. It has lots of beautiful flavors.   [0:38:03] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’ll be right over. I’ll be right over.   [0:38:05] Ashley James: It’s so good.   [0:38:06] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’m on my way.   [0:38:08] Ashley James: Then I just started eating kale raw. I remember not liking it like just detesting that the taste of kale, and now I actually love the taste of kale. I’ve witnessed this. I think I’m picky with a lot of things, and I’ve just noticed that my palate has really changed because I forced myself to just eat it. Because I thought, “Okay, this is a superfood. It’s healthy. I got to get into me.” But then my palate changed. I also cut out the foods that contained the chemical, salt, sugar, oil because I knew about how much they’re hijacking my brain and they weren’t good anyway. I just noticed that over time, my palate changed, and my cravings changed, and my neurology changed. I really had that experience that you’re describing, which is really exciting.   [0:38:59] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Has doing your podcast changed your life? It sounds like doing your podcast changed.   [0:39:03] Ashley James: Yeah. I think I share a lot in the show about my experience of how it has changed, how I’ve evolved. I’ve always been on a road of personal growth. My whole life I’ve been really excited about personal growth. Before the podcast, I healed type-2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and infertility. I did that with natural medicine. That’s why I started the podcast because I healed so many things. We have a healthy five-year-old. I was told by an endocrinologist I would never have kids. I was completely infertile. We conceived naturally with only natural medicine, with food, and supplements. Supplements being herbs, and vitamins, and minerals, not specific for conceiving but just to create health. To be able to basically go against all these MDs that said I would always be diabetic, I would always have polycystic ovarian syndrome, I would always be infertile that’s what they said. If I believe them and listen to them I would not have our child. I would not be happy. I don’t even know if I’d still be alive. So using food as medicine and supplements to fill in the gaps when needed, that changed my life so much that I want to start the podcast to help others. I knew that it wasn’t just physical. It had to be emotional and mental because I recognized that I had overeating, and binge eating, and that there was emotional stuff around that, there are other factors. We’re not separated. Our emotional and mental body affect our physical body and vice versa. So we have to just get that true health is about all aspects of our life, and wanting to improve them, and seeking the information to improve them, and being willing to try new things. So every time I interview someone it’s like I’m trying new things and implementing them in my life.   [0:41:13] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I love it.   [0:41:14] Ashley James: Your work has been monumental. You really, really help me. Actually, listeners can check out your podcast because I was on your show. You did your system, like a little taste test of your system.   [0:41:27] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I coached you for a session.   [0:41:29] Ashley James: Yeah, you coach me for a session. You helped me breakthrough something that I felt like I had no control over. In one session—it was very cool. Listeners can hear that. Give a plug, what’s the name of your podcast?   [0:41:47] Dr. Glenn Livingston: You could find that at—just go to neverbingeagain.com and click on the blog and all the podcast episodes are there. If you go to truehealtheating.com and you sign up for the book, you’ll get copies of full-length coaching sessions that I did where you can not only hear me coach Ashley but other people too. It’s all free. That’s over there.   [0:42:11] Ashley James: Cool. So truehealtheating.com and then you sign up for the free book. Then in addition to the free book, you’re getting recordings of these coaching sessions.   [0:42:22] Dr. Glenn Livingston: You get recordings of the coaching sessions, you get free food plans starter templates for every type of dietary philosophy—low carb, high carb, vegan, point counting, calorie counting. We’ll show you sample rules that people use for different dietary philosophies. So truehealtheating.com and sign up. That’s the best thing you can do. Click on the big red button, sign up for the reader bonuses, and you’ll get a free copy of the book, and you’ll get the coaching sessions, and you’ll get all the other goodies.   [0:42:56] Ashley James: Nice. When we had you on the show last—episode 231—so it’s been a while, I can’t believe it. It’s been just under 200 episodes ago. That doesn’t even sound right. I’m friends with Glenn on Facebook since I had him on the show the first time. I guess I just felt like I had interviewed you more recently since I feel like we talk every day through Facebook. By the way, Glenn is a really fun person to follow on Facebook. He’s got probably the best Facebook posts I have out of every single person I’ve ever followed. I’m serious, I’m serious. Your posts are so fun, and sometimes very insightful, and sometimes very silly, but they’re always really beautiful. So I appreciate that. While everyone is complaining, and griping, and there’s so much drama in the world, you bring such a lightness to it that’s also sometimes very contemplative. It’s light. I definitely encourage people to follow Glenn Livingston on Facebook as well. Since we had you on the show of many moons ago you had just published your second book. You have done a lot since then. Update us, what’s been going on in the world of Glenn Livingston since then?   [0:44:25] Dr. Glenn Livingston: The first book contains everything you need to stop overeating, it really does. Like I said, you can get a free copy of it on the site where we told you. What I found though—after I published the book—there was a great desire for coaching. At first, I started doing the coaching, and then I developed a program, and then I had coaches that were coaching underneath me or with me—it’s more accurate—who I train and supervise. We heard all these very specialty stories like, “I managed to never binge again with everything except for nighttime eating. I can do really well until 10 o’clock at night and then I blow it,” or “I’m really good except when I have my period,” or “I have the hardest time when I’m traveling. I have the hardest time when I’m super, super tired.” We recognized that there was a need for a book about very specific situational triggers, so we wrote a book called 45 Binge Trigger Busters. That’s probably the most popular alternate book that we’ve written so far, but then we wrote a book on nighttime eating. I say we, I have a business partner. I’m the primary author for most of the books, but he really does help me tremendously. His name is Yoav Ezer. He’s the CEO of my company. I’m old enough and mature enough to know that I don’t make a good CEO. I’m more of a mad scientist, and psychologist, and a marketer. We wrote a book about nighttime overeating, which has some very specific protocols associated with it that seemed to help. We wrote a workbook for people who either couldn’t afford the coaching program or were more do-it-yourself kind of people. That actually has turned out to be—we just launched it about a month ago. It’s been extremely popular. I had no idea how much even demand there was for a workbook in the market, but we thought through a lot of the exercises we were doing with coaching clients, we put it in there. Whatever books did I write? I wrote my autobiography as it pertains to food called Me, My Pig, and I.   [0:46:46] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, that’s so cute. Did you come up with that one yourself?   [0:46:53] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I came up with that myself, yeah.   [0:46:53] Ashley James: Did you come up with the title before you wrote the book? Did you have an aha moment? I want to know, how did you come up with that one?   [0:47:02] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Jim Carrey has a movie called Me, Myself and I and it happened to be on Netflix or something as I was writing the book. I said, “That’s it. It’s Me, My Pig, and I.”   [0:47:14] Ashley James: Love it. Isn’t it Me, Myself and Irene or something?   [0:47:18] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Is that what it is?   [0:47:19] Ashley James: Something like that, yeah. I think so. I saw it ages ago. But that’s so cute. If they haven’t heard the past episodes, tell us a bit about the pig for those who haven’t heard about it.   [0:47:34] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I went through the whole story in this episode about the difference between loving yourself thin and being an alpha wolf that takes charge. The way that I took charge was I decided to call my reptilian brain my inner pig. This was before I was a vegan or knew anything about the treatment of pigs in the world or anything like that. It was not something I was going to publish. It was going to be a private journal—just my way to overcome my own food problem. I named it my inner pig. I would make a rule that says, “I’ll never have chocolate Monday to Friday.” Then if I heard a little voice on my head that said, “Come on, Glenn, you worked out hard enough,” even though it’s a Wednesday. “You’re not going to gain any weight, you might as well.” I would say, “That’s not me, that’s my pig. I don’t want chocolate. Chocolate is pig slop during the week. I don’t eat pig slop. I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do. Stop squealing. Go back to your cage.” That’s how I got better. All the years of sophisticated psychology—for the people that don’t know, I was also a corporate consultant. I was doing these million-dollar projects. I was publishing all these papers. I was on TV and radio. I had all these sophisticated things to say, and I think I’m a compassionate person. I’m joking around a little with you today, but I usually come off as more compassionate. The way that I recover was to say, “I don’t eat pig slop. I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do.” It would wake me up at the moment of impulse, and it would give me this extra microseconds to remember who I was and why I wanted to make that rule in the first place. It wasn’t a miracle. Sometimes I make the wrong decision anyway, but it eradicated the sense of hopelessness and powerlessness. It eradicated the sense of you failed a thousand times before so you’re going to fail forever. I started to feel like I have the ability to make choices. I made choices and I got better. If you look at my top weight versus about where I am now, it’s about 80 pounds different. My triglycerides went way down and my psoriasis and rosacea went away. I developed the ability to stick to the plan that I would make for myself. I wouldn’t take anybody else’s diet or rules. I don’t recommend anybody take my diet or rules. I guide people in the principle to autonomously decide what they want to eat and how to stick to it. That’s where the pig comes from. You don’t have to call it a pig. I kind of wish that I didn’t in retrospect.   [0:50:12] Ashley James: No, I think it’s brilliant. I think it’s brilliant. Some people could get confused because they have a different perception of pig. Of course, you’re using the Western stereotype of the pig that just binges, and just can never get enough, can never be satiated. It’s also used as a negative insult, but that for you was a break state. That allowed you to just stop the old pattern long enough to take control.   [0:50:47] Dr. Glenn Livingston: But you can call it your food monster or your food demon. What you don’t want to do, you don’t want to think of it as a wounded inner child or a cute pet. It’s not an alternative part of your personality. You’re not trying to reintegrate this. Most forms of psychology will say, “You need to own your shadow. You need to look at these disowned parts of yourself and recognize that this is part of you and love it also. That way you won’t be so frightened of it and it won’t be able to act out on its own.” That’s not the solution that worked for me. The solution was to disavow these impulses. To define pig squeal as any thought, feeling, or impulse would suggest that I will ever break my rules between now and the day that I died. By definition a squeal is destructive. Why would I want to identify with those destructive urges? I cast that out of my identity. I assigned all doubt on uncertainty about my ability to stick with the plan. I got a lot of this from Jack Trimpey, by the way. He wrote a book called Rational Recovery. I had to remodify an awful lot of things to make it work for food. I found that that empowered me to develop a success identity because all of these destructive thoughts were no longer me. They were just neurological junk as Kathryn Hansen says, and I became a different person. After a while, it was not just white-knuckling it and sticking to rules. It was changing my identity about the kind of person that I was with chocolate, and pasta, and pizza. I didn’t have to think about it after a while. Just like the first couple of months you’re learning how to drive. You’ve got a concentrate on the rules or road, but then after a while, you can daydream, and listen to music, and talk to your friends. I want to tell you a funny story about the pig. The one place that it’s not good that I really wish it didn’t—people don’t always know my name because the idea of pig, and pig slop, and I don’t eat pig slop, and I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do. That’s so salient that they think of me as, “Oh, he’s that doctor who has a pig inside him.” Once in a while—I used to like to do this if I go on a first date or something—I’ll be in a bookstore and someone will come up to me look start pointing like I’m familiar to them but they don’t know my name. They just go, “Pig guy, pig guy, pig guy.”   [0:53:15] Ashley James: This happened when you’re on a date?   [0:53:17] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Yeah.   [0:53:18] Ashley James: No way. Tell me. Tell me what happened.   [0:53:21] Dr. Glenn Livingston: She thought it was funny and I explained it to her. It’s not really the impression you want to make on your first date.   [0:53:27] Ashley James: Did you guys go out on a second date?   [0:53:29] Dr. Glenn Livingston: No, but I wouldn’t have gone out with her a second time either. I hope she doesn’t hear this.   [0:53:37] Ashley James: It’s all for the greater good. It’ll all work out in the end. I really do believe that there’s some kind of serendipity that happens. The universe sometimes—it all plays out for a reason.   [0:53:54] Dr. Glenn Livingston: She was not an awful person or anything, we just were not a good match.   [0:53:58] Ashley James: Right, right, right. It’s so funny that you’ve been known as the pig guy. Glenn Livingston’s a really easy name to recall—for me at least.   [0:54:09] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Dr. Livingston, I presume.   [0:54:11] Ashley James: Yes. Of course, of course.   [0:54:15] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Something you’ve never said, thank God.   [0:54:17] Ashley James: Dr. Livingston?   [0:54:19] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Dr. Livingston, I presume.   [0:54:21] Ashley James: I presume that’s who you are. Sure.   [0:54:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’m older than you. I’m older than you. There’s a famous story about an explorer that goes to Africa named Dr. Livingston. When his assistant/friend finally finds him he says, “Dr. Livingston, I presume.” Ever since I was a kid there are about eight doctors in the family.   [0:54:46] Ashley James: Oh, people are using that. I have a friend named Forrest and he actually loved the Forrest Gump movie. He grew up with it and everyone used to yell, “Run, Forrest, run.” He thought it was funny. I’m just surprised he didn’t grow up scarred from it.   [0:54:59] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Because by the 47th time someone else says it you think, “No one else ever said that to me before ever.”   [0:55:09] Ashley James: When you talked about your inner pig in our past interviews I actually got the name of my inner thing right away. It just came to me that I have an inner brat. She’s an inner brat.   [0:55:23] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I remember that.   [0:55:25] Ashley James: Right. She wants what she wants when she wants it. She’s like a little nasty five-year-old that is hopped up on sugar. She throws tantrums—little inner brat. When you made that distinction it was like the light went on like, “Oh, okay. I have a little inner brat. I need to tell her, ‘No, we’re not having a second serving of pasta or we’re not going to go through the drive-thru. We’re going to eat kale. You’re going to enjoy a kale smoothie and you’re going to stop nagging me.’” It’s been very clear to me that by putting it in that context—and you said like with the pig. It’s good to like make it a little bit comical because I feel like it’s part of that break state and part of you getting control back. But like you said, it’s not about reintegrating, it’s not about loving it. It is a part of our brain that wants to kill things, eat things, and sleep with things. The thing is we can’t, like you said, you don’t pee on the street or pee in a meeting. You have control of your body. Good, good, good that you do, but we also don’t run around just having sex in the street or killing people—thank God. I’m knocking on wood here. That we all keep control of these urges, but the one urge that we let go is food because it’s socially acceptable. If we say that bingeing is that same part of the brain that wants to just mate with everything it’s like, “Okay. Well, I’ve been able to my entire life control the urge to just randomly mate with something in the street or kill someone just because they made me angry. I’ve easily, easily been able to control that and I can figure out how to control that urge to overeat because that’s part of the same mechanism.”   [0:57:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It’s just another element of being a civilized person in society.   [0:57:29] Ashley James: Right. Yeah. Tell me more about this not eating at night or this nighttime eating because that’s the thing I’ve been working. I’ve heard people say—guests have said on the show—we only have a certain amount of willpower. I think even you talked about it. By 11:00 PM we have no more willpower left. For me, I’ll eat really healthy during the day, but if I’m staying up past a certain hour I get hungry again and then it’s like the willpower is not there.   [0:58:04] Dr. Glenn Livingston: There’s an eight-part protocol that we came up with after having—we paid some researchers to do an exhaustive secondary research survey, look at all the research that’s been done. Then we did our own research into our own population. We did either surveys, and we talked to everybody. We figured out that there were actually eight things that people were doing who successfully stopped eating after a certain time at night. The first one was they knew the difference between nighttime and daytime. This sounds kind of silly but there was a very clear demarcation point. If you think about a vampire movie, the characters always know the difference between sundown and the daytime. They know when the sun sets. There’s a variety of activities that they go through. They might put garlic on the door. They might pour salt around the house. They might prepare their secret wooden stake weapons or something like that. They might post a [inaudible 00:59:09] at the door. The heroes in a vampire movie—and the music always changes when the sun is down and the mood of the movie is much different because everyone’s on high alert. There’s a very clear demarcation point and there’s a ritual that people go through in order to punctuate that demarcation point. We found that the people who were successful, they adopted some type of ritual. It wasn’t necessarily at the same time every day. It could be as soon as dinner was done. Some people will say, “I’ll stop eating at 8:000 every night unless dinner doesn’t start before 7:00,” and then they’re allowed to go a half-hour later or something. There’s a ritual. One of our customers Liv—I have permission to say all this. She claps her hands and she goes, “Dinner and done.” The dishes are away. She goes, “Dinner and done.” Saying that out loud ritualistically moves her from her lower brain to her upper brain. She knows that now she’s got to protect herself from we call it pigula. Pigula whispers at night. The pig squeals during the day and pigula whispers at night. Pigula is more seductive. Then once you’ve done that ritual, another ritual could be clapping your hand three times as if you’re dusting them off and saying, “Kitchen is closed.” Other people have more physical rituals where they’ll change clothes, or take a shower, or go through a moisturizing routine, or do something to their body—which feels like it’s in a physically different state so they know that they’ve entered the decompression time living night time before bed when you start to let go of the day and wind down to go to sleep. Those were the most obvious things that people were doing, but then we found that the people who were overeating at night—who stopped overeating at night—most of them had not been breakfast eaters beforehand. Most of them didn’t like to eat until they were 11:00, 12:00, 1:00 in the afternoon. They would say that they just don’t like breakfast, and part of the reason they don’t like breakfast is because they’re eating late at night and they’re too full in the morning. They discovered that they had to move their first meal to earlier in the day and that needed to be more substantial. They couldn’t let their pigula be saving calories for late at night. They needed to keep their blood sugar up in the morning, afternoon, and evening. That was something that when we work with people, they have to force themselves to do this. It’s something that comes naturally to them, and most of them don’t want to. A matter of fact, a lot of people try to shut me up when I tell them that. A lot of people are very involved with intermittent fasting. I will tell them that—I don’t dispute the medical benefits of intermittent fasting. I think that it’s very valuable in many ways, but I prefer that if someone’s involved with binge eating that they don’t do that for six to twelve months after they recovered from the binge eating. The reason is I think there’s an evolutionary mechanism in the brain that says, “If calories and nutrition are not available for a period of time when they are available we need to hoard them.” I think that’s the essence of the feast and famine environment that we evolved in. I think that overcoming binge eating involves signaling the body—and the brain in particular—that there’s a regular reliable course of nutrition and calories flowing through at all times. That’s part of why we’re finding the people that overcome nighttime overeating are eating more in the morning. They also have a more satisfying lunch. We came up with a saying that says, “Add some crunch to your lunch.” Can you put some celery, or carrots, or peppers, or something that makes you feel like you’re actually chewing, and crunching, and getting some of that oral aggression out while you’re eating. I’m actually not joking. It is funny but it feels like a meal. It feels more like a meal. If you’re having a good solid breakfast, and you’re having some crunch with your lunch, by the time you get to dinner, you’re not quite as overwhelmed. The other thing has to do with self-care. It goes along with the fact that there are only so many good decisions we can make during the course of the day. See, it turns out that your decision-making tank about food is also impacted by your decision-making tank about non-food items.   [1:03:55] Ashley James: How so? That’s very interesting.   [1:03:57] Dr. Glenn Livingston: If I make you do math problems before I offer you a marshmallow, you’re more likely to have the marshmallow than if I didn’t make you do those math problems because I engaged you in thinking and decision-making about the right answer. If you’re spending an awful lot of time doing email during the day, every email is a decision, “Is this spam? Do I delete it? Do I delegate it? Is it critical? Do I have to respond now? Can I defer it?” There’s a lot of brain glucose that gets burned up while you’re figuring out what to do with each email. If you’re living in an environment where you’re constantly impinged upon for decision making—and those kinds of decisions could involve, “Mommy, who’s taking me to soccer practice? Mommy, are we going to have pizza or hamburgers for dinner tonight?” If you’re constantly impinged upon to make decisions all day long, taking two ten-minute breaks during the day or even two five-minute breaks during the day where you put down your phone, and you turn off your computer, and you walk away from people, and you just breathe, or walk outside for a moment, and get away from all the input. Get away from all the input. Get away. Don’t make any decisions at all for ten minutes twice a day. You can restore the decision-making capability to a certain extent. It would be better if you can go for a jog. It would be better if you could take a nap. It would be better if you could do something a little longer, but those two 10-minute breaks a day can make a difference. You’ll find that when you get home at night it’s easier. The other thing that people do is since our decision-making capability is worse at the end of the day than the beginning of the day, decide what’s for dinner and prepare it before you leave in the morning. Put it in Tupperware, have it sitting in your refrigerator so that when you get home you can just put it in the microwave and go to town. You don’t have to make any more decisions. You’re eliminating a lot of that willpower draining energy at night that you’re not good at.   [1:06:03] Ashley James: Delete the word microwave, replace with stove because I don’t promote microwaves.   [1:06:15] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I don’t even use the stove. I’m a raw vegan for people that don’t know. I don’t force this on people.   [1:06:24] Ashley James: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally, totally. I was just teasing because you’re like put it in Tupperware. I’m like, not plastic. Put it in a microwave, no microwave.   [1:06:31] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I’m trying to speak in the language of the masses because I don’t want to put up too many barriers for people. I want them to stop bingeing first and foremost because if you stop having 20,000 calories a day and you microwave a bowl of brown rice and peas, I think you’re a lot better off.   [1:06:49] Ashley James: Yes.   [1:06:52] Dr. Glenn Livingston: But I agree with you, Ashley. Look, my ideal is that I eat fruit and leafy green vegetables. I actually have a dehydrator on top of my stove because I don’t use the stove. I don’t understand why people think that the byproducts of fire are good for us in any way, shape, or form. Didn’t we learn our lessons with cigarettes? It’s a whole different story, right? No microwaves, no stoves. If you were to come live with me for a month you’re going to be shocked.   [1:07:21] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. I think I’d love it. If you do all the food prep I think I’d love it. I was raw vegan for six days and it was great. I did it during the summer. Easy to find all the fresh produce, but I got bored with eating the same food over and over again. I got bored. So day seven I’m like, “Oh, man. If I have to eat another zucchini noodle bowl with marinara,” which was so delicious. I think I just figured out how to make one good dish and it was delicious. My husband was like, “I could eat this way the rest of my life,” but I don’t know if I’m cut out to do raw vegan but I definitely eat raw sometimes.   [1:08:04] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I don’t push that at all. I work with people on all sorts of diets.   [1:08:07] Ashley James: No, no, you don’t. You don’t. It’s interesting that some people find liberation in restriction. Back when I lived in Toronto, I was friends with a woman. I could see her face. I think her name was Jen—beautiful, wonderful woman. I was a teenager and she was in her 20s. We were taking a leadership program through Landmark Education where we had to meet once a month on the weekends. We met weekly on Tuesday nights. Saturday—for those of the Jewish faith—is the day of rest where you’re not supposed to do anything. You’re not supposed to carry anything but the Bible. You’re not supposed to drive a car, turn on a light switch, and she was transitioning to Orthodox. She was going to marry an Orthodox Jewish man, and she was transitioning to Orthodox. She said, “I want to attend on Saturday but I have to walk if I want to go.” She lived on the other side of Toronto—the other side. I volunteered to walk with her. I got to her house before the sun rose, and we walked clear across all of Toronto and got there in time for our course. The whole time we talked about this because I was really fascinated. She was a dancer. She had long hair. She was very free and why was she going to choose to be in a relationship with a man where she had to shave her head, make a wig out of her own hair, never allow anyone to see her hair again, never dance with people other than women, never show any skin beyond the wrists or something like. Just the restriction after restriction. Why was she happy and excited? Beyond the fact that she was in love with this man. She was actually excited to become an Orthodox Jew. She explained to me in our very long walk that in the amount of restriction—she was raised in a setting where she had no restrictions, and she was loose, and could do whatever—she found that she just ended up not really liking herself. But with these restrictions in her faith, it actually gave her more room to be who she was. She actually found more comfort in the rules that she decided to take on. That twisted my mind because I always thought that freedom and no restrictions were the ultimate way to live, but people—in certain circumstances—find that restrictions forced them to become more creative, and more self-expressed, and feel more comfortable, and at ease. Your example is your system, you create rules around your food. That ends up giving you more freedom. It’s like restriction could equal freedom in a sense. It’s really neat.   [1:11:21] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I don’t think of it as restriction necessarily but you could. I’ve got a lot to say about this. Can I talk for a moment or two?   [1:11:28] Ashley James: Absolutely. Please do.   [1:11:30] Dr. Glenn Livingston: First of all, I believe that freedom sits on top of discipline, it’s not opposed to it. It’s only because of the discipline of the engineers who put together my car that when I turn the wheel 30 degrees to the right and I press on the gas pedal that it goes in that direction. I can open up my radius of locomotion and travel all over the city. It’s only because of the discipline of the city planners who put stoplights in the most dangerous intersections and yield signs in the ones that weren’t so dangerous. They organized it and really looked at the whole city in the way that was laid out that I can freely move about. It’s only because of my discipline, and having learned the rules of the road, and abiding by them that I can go about the day and do all that. Anybody who’s more than 16 years old knows the tremendous freedom that comes once you learn how to drive, but there’s a discipline you have to develop first. It’s only because—I’m a jazz musician—I studied the scales exhaustively and I know the structure of music that I can improvise outside of them and express my soul. Jim Rohn said, “A life of discipline is much better than a life of regret.” What I think is that either you’re going to be free or your pig is going to be free. Either you’re going to be the master or the pig is going to be the master. I want to be the master of my fate. In order to do that. I’ve got to accept the adult responsibility of controlling my impulses with discipline. It’s a fact of life and I think that people are confused about freedom versus discipline. They think that they’re giving something up. My pig could say, “You can’t give up chocolate, that’s way too boring. You can’t live without that stimulation and pleasure.” By giving up chocolate, I have largely lived free of any major health concern. I am 80 pounds thinner than I used to be. I could walk on the world as a thin, confident, healthy, handsome man, and be a leader in my field. I can hike a mountain a lot quicker, which means I get to spend more time on top enjoying the sunset, or the fresh air, or the view, or feeling the bit of hike a tall mountain was the feeling of owning the mountain when you get to the top. It’s only because of all those disciplines that I thought I can do that. If I continue to eat chocolate, then I would be depriving myself of all of those things. It’s never really that we are depriving ourselves of pleasure. It’s a question of which pleasure are we depriving ourselves of, and have we made a fully informed choice? Well, because the pig will concentrate you on, will focus you on the short-term pleasure that you’re giving up. But that’s not all there is. There’s long term pleasure too.   [1:14:46] Ashley James: Instant gratification.   [1:14:48] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Right. Maturity involves recognizing that sometimes we sacrifice short-term pleasures to pursue longer-term pleasures. Sometimes we give up the roller coaster of highs and lows for more of a contented life. That’s the difference between going to an amusement park, and having these adrenaline rushes, and then having to wait in long lines between them versus floating down the river in a kayak, and enjoying the fresh air, and watching the breeze float the willows back and forth. As we get older and we mature, we usually opt for more of the contented sustainable pleasures in life rather than the fleeting pleasures that burn us out quickly. We move more from the live fast and die young end of the continuum to the live slow and enjoy the ride, which is necessary when you get older because there were fewer years left, right? So you want to make them last as long as you can. The last thing I want to say, Ashley, about that is that your pig will tell you that boredom is intolerable. We live in a world of excessive stimulation. Go count the number of scene changes on any television show or movie. How many bombs, and naked women, or scantily clad women, or car chases, or fireworks are you seeing when you are looking at a coming attraction? We’re led to believe that we need this constant input and constant overstimulation of our senses. The natural experience when you let go of that is the experience of boredom. When you experience life the way that it is meant to be, it seems boring because you don’t have all that stimulation. There’s just you, and there’s nature, and there’s other people, right? It takes a while for your nervous system to adjust to that. There’s a phenomenon called down-regulation, which means if you overstimulate the nervous system in some way you will stop responding. If you live underneath the subway, after a couple of weeks you don’t hear the trains going by anymore, you sleep like a baby because your nervous system has been overstimulated and it doesn’t respond to that noise anymore. If you have a chocolate bar every day, you stop enjoying the taste of it as much as you did when you first started, you don’t get the same level of pleasure, and you certainly don’t get this pleasure from an apple like you used to. Thankfully that process reverses itself in a phenomenon called upregulation. If you stop having sugar, for example, then within six to eight weeks your taste buds double in sensitivity, and your neurological system starts to produce the dopamine that it used to in response to apples, and produce, and that kind of stuff. The upshot of this is that the experience of becoming unaddicted from food is always the experience of going through boredom. On the other side of that are two things. First of all, there is the enjoyment of the way that life actually is. There’s a calming of the nervous system. There’s a satisfaction, and contentment, and peace that comes into your being. We started this whole conversation by saying this woman has found peace at dinner when she never had that before. That’s on the other side of boredom, not that far away. Maybe six to eight weeks you start to feel that, but on the other side of that is your life purpose. See, when you’re not distracted by the overstimulation, then your libido—your life’s energy—can start to go into what’s really important to you. You’ll start to want to take on some other project. Maybe that just means spending more time rolling around on the floor with your kids. Maybe it means tidying up the house. Maybe it means applying for a promotion. Maybe it means volunteering. I don’t know. For one way or another, you’re going to find yourself inspired to channel the pleasure-seeking energy that you used to channel into excessive taste stimulation. You’re going to channel it into things that feel very worthwhile to you. When you do that, pig slop looks pathetic. It’s much less interesting in contrast. So your pig doesn’t want you to get there so it says, “This is way too boring.” Now the truth is, I don’t mean to push you to be a raw vegan. I don’t have any need for you to do that, but the people that do it successfully, they spend a lot of time researching at first—different ways to stimulate the senses with raw vegan things. There are all types of recipes. You can make where I’m eating pizza. You can make raw vegan mac and cheese. There are all kinds of things that you can do and they’re pretty darn good if you put the time, and energy, and you got the equipment to do it. Over time, even that starts to seem too stimulating, and you gravitate towards what most people would think are very boring meals. More days than not, I have bananas and romaine lettuce for breakfast and lunch. More days than not. Then I’ll make myself some kind of special salad at dinner. I’m not bored at all with it. I really look forward to it. I don’t really want the excessive stimulation because then I spend more time thinking about food. Over the years, I’ve gotten so much more excited about all these other things that it doesn’t seem natural to me to find all my pleasure from food anymore. I feel like I spent 30 years looking for all my pleasure in food. I want to spend the balance of my life making a difference and putting my energy someplace else, which is not to say I don’t get pleasure from food anymore, I do, but it’s not the same. I don’t have the same proportion of my libido dedicated to the food pleasure as I used to. Does that make sense?   [1:20:51] Ashley James: Absolutely. Everything you said, I was thinking about we’re all going through COVID-19 right now. This is what’s happening now, although people listen to these episodes even years after we record them because they’re still relevant information. At the moment, the whole world. I was just listening to Al Jazeera. I find listening to foreign news even more interesting than our news because you get like just a little bit of a different spin sometimes. There’s Artie. I like listening to many different news outlets and just seeing the different opinions, but there are countries that are shutting down in Africa. There are several countries shutting down cities—completely shut down. There are some cities that made it illegal to travel. It’s just the crackdown is happening more and more. I’ve lived just outside of Seattle with my family so we’ve been in quarantine and only leave the house—well, we get out in nature go, go for walks. Even now, the governor of Washington is starting to say—he was saying like a week ago, “You can still go for a bike ride. You can still go for a walk.” A few days ago he said, “Don’t leave your house no matter what even if it’s just for essentials.” Now he’s saying don’t even go outside to walk your dog. It’s just getting to the point where people are people are stir-crazy. Luckily we live in a house, but if I was living back in our old apartment, man I would be going nuts. I had no room in that apartment. I’m feeling, I’m feeling for the people who don’t have a yard to walk in. At least I can go in the backyard and garden. I can get in the sun. Our kid can run around.   [1:22:36] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Can you imagine what prisoners feel like?   [1:22:39] Ashley James: Yeah, exactly. Or what animals that we put in the zoo. I’m thinking about people or animals who are always held captive. We are all going through that. We’re all affected by COVID-19 in one way or another, but I’ve noticed in the last week my eating habits shifted because I’m home more. I found myself eating because I’m bored. I’m not doing anything because normally, we­’re always out and doing stuff.   [1:23:18] Dr. Glenn Livingston: You’re sinking the input.   [1:23:19] Ashley James: Then I just noticed I was walking around the house because I had to move around. I always end up—the kitchen is in the center of the house and I’m like, “Oh what’s in the fridge.” Look in the fridge for the 50th time today, “Oh, look in all the drawers. Oh, yeah. Okay, all the avocados are still there. What should I make for dinner? What should I make now? It’s 4:00 PM, too early for dinner. What can I eat now?” It was just food becomes an event because there’s nothing else to do. I watched this happen because I like becoming the observer, and watching the behavior, and then going, “Ah, isn’t this interesting? This doesn’t need to control me but I can observe it.” Then that’s when it hit me, “Oh, good. We’re interviewing Glenn in a few days. We get to talk about this because I bet a lot of people have noticed bingeing or that justification. That little voice that wants to mate, and eat, and kill is getting a lot more attention now because we’re stuck at home.   [1:24:19] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Our business is actually up a little bit.   [1:24:21] Ashley James: I thought so.   [1:24:24] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I feel guilty about it because everybody is suffering. I’m working super hard. I’m working to help people. I don’t take much money out of the business.   [1:24:35] Ashley James: Glenn, Glenn, you have such a kind heart. Who else would feel guilty? You are helping people. Just think of the woman listener who said that through tears in her eyes that, “I have peace now. For the first time ever I ate dinner without anxiety and I have peace.” The money that you and your company make is a reflection of how many people you’re helping, you’re touching lives. Your book—although you give it for free—is the number one bestseller on Amazon. There are tons of fantastic reviews. Thousands and thousands of people have been helped.   [1:25:13] Dr. Glenn Livingston: We just crossed 4000 reviews today.   [1:25:17] Ashley James: That’s amazing. Congratulations.   [1:25:20] Dr. Glenn Livingston: That was the neurotic Jewish person in me, feeling guilty about making money and stuff.   [1:25:28] Ashley James: No, no, no. It’s so human. I’ve been looking around at these companies that are blatantly making a profit off of people suffering and the COVID-19 crisis. I’m in a lot of Facebook groups, but I’m in a marketing Facebook group and someone said, “Okay, covidpreneurs out there. What are you doing to turn a fast buck in this?” Because of this situation. I got angry. I said to myself, “I don’t want to make money off of anyone because of this.”   [1:26:06] Dr. Glenn Livingston: The truth is, it’s actually more unethical for me not to make money because I have to support a bunch of people in the company. We have to keep expanding the advertising. The banker doesn’t tell me at the end of the month, “Gee Glenn, you’re a really good person. You’re helping all these people. You don’t have to put your mortgage.” I wish they would.   [1:26:30] Ashley James: In your situation, your money means you’re helping people. There’s a direct correlation. Right now, people are stuck at home. They’re suffering and they’re seeking an answer.   [1:26:41] Dr. Glenn Livingston: It’s a good time to get a coach. It’s a good time to buy some of these books and look into it.   [1:26:46] Ashley James: Glenn, it has been such a pleasure having you on the show again as always. You can come back any time. Every time you publish six books just come back on.    [1:26:57] Dr. Glenn Livingston: I think I’m out for a while. I have those six books in me because we’ve done thousands of coaching sessions. I knew what all the issues were and we developed the answers. I not only do this myself, but I work in concert with these four other coaches plus my business partner, Yoav. They’re always coming up with insights, always looking at situations, and so I had all these answers in me from all the specialty situations. Never Binge Again was a book that really took me eight years to write because I did eight years of journaling before I turned it into a book. If you looked at it, it was only a month in the actual writing but it was eight years in development. It’s kind of the same thing for these six books. There were about four years and thousands of sessions in development, and I think that I’m out. I think I have to see another few thousand people before I come up with more.   [1:27:48] Ashley James: Very cool. You’re welcome back on the show any time. If a listener wants to work with you or wants to join your coaching program and become a coach, should they just go to truehealtheating.com and get the information there?   [1:28:00] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Everything starts at truehealtheating.com, sign up for the reader bonuses, and you’ll be led to the podcast, you’ll be led to the coaching program, you’ll be led to the Facebook forum, you’ll be led to the free copies of the book, and Kindle, Nook, or PDF format. If you want the physical copies, you can get them. There is a charge for those. Yeah, truehealtheating.com.   [1:28:21] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Glenn Livingston, I presume. It’s been a pleasure. Stay safe. Stay healthy, everyone. Thank you so much for your beautiful episode. I just know this is going to help a lot of people.   [1:28:35] Dr. Glenn Livingston: Thank you, dear. It went by quickly. Thanks.   Get Connected with Dr. Glenn Livingston: Official Website Fix Your Problem Facebook Instagram Never Binge Again Podcast Book by Dr. Glenn Livingston Never Binge Again Book  Recommended Reading by Dr. Glenn Livingston: Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey Check out these other amazing episodes with Dr. Glenn Livingston! Episode 249: The Impact of Eating Right Episode 231 – Willpower To Stop Bingeing Episode 56 – How To End Binge Eating

Visit learntruehealth.com/hand and use coupon code LTH for your gift   All-Natural Hand Sanitizer Against Coronavirus https://www.learntruehealth.com/all-natural-hand-sanitizer-against-coronavirus   Highlights: How Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner was created All-natural hand sanitizer as the first line of defense against coronavirus Safe ingredients without synthetic fillers   Proper Handwashing is one of the primary defenses against COVID-19, but what if you’re out and about and can’t wash your hands right away? In this episode, Faith Flatt shares with us the hand sanitizer that they formulated that doesn’t only kill coronavirus and germs, but it also conditions the skin.   [0:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 422. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have on the show Faith Flatt who is the Head of Merchandising of a US-based company that normally produces all-natural pain creams, but since COVID-19, they formulated a hand sanitizer. Because let’s be honest, I cannot find any hand sanitizer anywhere. I’ve been to every store, even online. It is all sold out, or they jacked up the prices on eBay and Amazon. People on OfferUp are making homemade sanitizer, I mean it is crazy right now. When I found out that one of my favorite all-natural pain cream companies had formulated an all-natural hand sanitizer that kills—what is it like 99.9% of germs?   [0:01:12] Faith Flatt: Yes, it does.   [0:01:15] Ashley James: Not only that because we could all just douse ourselves in alcohol, which would just dry out our skin, make it crack, and bleed, and then we’d be more susceptible to germs. You guys produced a hand sanitizer that actually conditions the skin and moisturizes the skin leaving it protected on many levels. You guys are producing 30,000 units a day so that people who are like me in hot spots—I’m just outside the Seattle area where there is zero hand sanitizer available in any store—that I can gain access to hand sanitizer. This is so important because yes, of course, we should all wash our hands, but when we go grocery shopping, we’re constantly touching things. We want to just have that extra level of protection for ourselves, and our family, and our loved ones—who are elderly and more susceptible—by immediately using hand sanitizer so we don’t bring a potential virus home with us and infect someone who could potentially die. So a little bottle of hand sanitizer can save a life at this point. Your company is providing these all-natural hand sanitizers. So that’s why I’m very excited. I’m excited to have you on the show to tell us about this hand sanitizer. Listeners can go to learntruehealth.com/hand to buy some right now. When you go to learntruehealth.com/hand, it gives you the ability to also get some discounts by buying in bulk or buying a whole pack of them. If you use coupon code LTH you also get a gift, so that’s great. I want to hear more about what’s in the hand sanitizer, why is it that it’s natural and that it actually conditions the skin? Because when I use it—I have it, I’m holding it right now. My son who has really sensitive skin—I’m going to put some of my hand right now so I can just describe the sensation because it feels like I just put cream. I can smell the alcohol because, of course, there’s 70% alcohol in this, but it doesn’t feel like I put alcohol on my skin. It doesn’t feel like all those other hand sanitizers. It actually just feels like I just rubbed cream on my hands. My hands feel moisturized, and smooth, and soft. I want to know why is it that your hand sanitizer is the bomb, first of all. So we’re going to talk about that, but first, is Tim your father-in-law?   [0:03:52] Faith Flatt: Yeah. This is a family business, and he’s my father-in-law.   [0:03:56] Ashley James: Right. I had Tim on the show—I don’t know, maybe about a year ago—to talk about Real Time Pain Relief—your company—and the natural pain creams, and their benefits, and the amazing stories of success of people actually reducing pain medications because of how effective your pain cream is. When listeners go to learntruehealth.com/hand, they’ll also be able to see your other products—if they’d like to try your pain creams. Right now, the focus is on the hand sanitizer, which is really exciting. Tell us a little bit about you and your story. We heard about Tim’s story, Tim being one of the founders of Real Time Pain Relief. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got into working with Real Time Pain Relief and the history of your family-based company.   [0:04:50] Faith Flatt: Well, with all family businesses if it’s something that people are passionate about, everyone in the family kind of gets sucked into it, into the vortex. The Flatt family and their business partner Ron Snodgrass—the Snodgrass family—are just very consumed and passionate about helping people with topical pain relief. I married into the family about a decade ago, but even before I married in, this was a passion project for them. They were really focused on making sure that people had better alternatives to pain relief. So about 20 years ago, Real Time Pain Relief introduced their first pain relief formula, and it was developed with the pain relief habits of their children and their sports teams in mind. Pretty soon, they found out that it wasn’t just children and their sports teams that were needing a better alternative to pain relief. Everyone really needed an alternative to popping OTC pain pills as if they were harmless. That was very concerning to the Real Time Pain Relief family. Soon we found that parents, grandparents, they were some of our more predominant users of the Real Time Pain Relief formulas, and that was how a company was born and a business was built. One of the founding pieces of Real Time Pain Relief and our commitment to our customer base from then and to this day is that all of our formulas would be rich in nature’s ingredients and that we would always steer clear of the synthetic fillers that are in most of the formulas that you’re going to find on OTC shelves inside of stores. So parabens, SLS, artificial dyes, NSAIDS, acetaminophen, all of the Real Time Pain Relief formulas steer clear of that. For me personally, getting to step into the family business, I have gone out to so many farmers markets, and state fairs, and eventually Boston Marathon, New York City Marathon, just places where we would go and personally sample the formulas that Real Time Pain Relief carries. It’s so fun to watch—through the years in the last decade that I’ve been involved—how the consumers out there are becoming more conscious, and how you’ll even have younger people much more interested in alternatives that are good for them. So for me personally, getting to work in the merchandising and helping to communicate all of the wonderful features of the Real Time Pain Relief formulas and now our new hand sanitizer is really meaningful and very enjoyable part of my family life.   [0:07:38] Ashley James: Absolutely. Yeah, I’m looking at the bottle, no parabens, no SLS, no artificial dyes, and no fragrances. You guys decided not to even put essential oils in here. Someone could just add essential oils—a few drops to their hand if they want to, but there is some chamomile in here. Like I said, when you put it on I briefly smell the alcohol. Now it’s been a few minutes, I’m smelling the hand, I don’t smell anything. It’s very, very, very faint if anything, but my hand feels very soft like I just got a hand treatment.  There’s something about this that is very—it says it’s a hand conditioner. There’s not even a better word than hand—it’s not a moisturizer. It really conditions the skin. It left my skin feeling very moist, it’s not cracked anymore because my hand was getting dried out from all the other alcohol-based hand sanitizers. I’m really enjoying it. I think I mentioned this but my five-year-old—who has sensitive skin—doesn’t react to your hand sanitizer, so that’s really exciting that some people with sensitive skin would also be confident using your hand sanitizer. Then, of course, you have a hand treatment in addition to this they could get if they have really, really dry skin. We need to protect our skin right now more than ever. It’s our first line of defense when it comes to our immune system because it keeps germs out, but if there’re any cracks in your skin—even if your cuticles are cracked—that’s a potential for where the viruses can get in. We just want to protect your skin as much as possible. Obviously, sanitize it and then moisturize it. That’s why I really like this stuff. When did you guys develop the hand sanitizer? Was this years in the making or did you guys just see the need and jump on it?   [0:09:42] Faith Flatt: We work with a wonderful chemist, and we have access to wonderful ingredients from nature. We have—in the past—dabbled with hand sanitizer, but it wasn’t really an essential like it is right now. It wasn’t the commodity that it’s become, so it was never a part of our permanent product line. We had the ability to very quickly adjust to what the market was needing, and we realized very quickly that our customer base was in need of this essential. If we could make it available to them that that was what we wanted to do.  While we normally spend many years developing a formula, we developed this one and brought it to market within about a week and a half. That was about three weeks ago, so it was a very quick turnaround time as the crisis began to really unfold and make hand sanitizer, like you said, really a first line of defense that everyone needs. If you’re at home it’s nice when you can just wash your hands with an antibacterial soap, but almost everyone still has to go out to get groceries and things like that right now. If you leave the house without a hand sanitizer you’re really walking out unarmed. So realizing that, our customers—who because of the way our product was founded and the ideas behind our product—that basically if you are a Real Time Pain Relief customer you’re a member of the family. Our formulas were formulated for family at the beginning. As our customer base has grown, we’ve always just felt anyone who was turning to our formulas was someone that we considered family. So if our family members all across the US we’re doing without hand sanitizer, we wanted to make this first line of defense available to them. All of those nourishing ingredients that you’re talking about in the formula and that feeling you get afterward is very intentional. Certainly, it makes it more fun to use the formula if it doesn’t leave you cracked and dried out at the end of the experience, but at least you know, okay, if it has 70% alcohol then its killing 99.99% of the germs. Also, on that note, according to the CDC,` I’m sure a lot of people are aware of this at this point, but even the CDC says that if your hand sanitizer contains 70% alcohol that it will kill 99.99% of germs including human coronavirus. That gives you a really strong sense of security when you have hand sanitizer, but the question right now is do you have it in stock? So us making it available to our customers was the first step, and the second step was to make sure that it still lived up to our customers’ values. That we kept it clear of the unwanted fillers that are in most hand sanitizers right now. That we infused it with ingredients that would prevent that cracking because as you’ve said, Ashley, that opens your skin up to the infection. That opens your body up to any type of disease and infection when you have a cut. So right now, this is definitely not the time to back down on your health principles or those things you look for inside of your formulas normally. So we wanted to make sure that those rich formulas were available to our customer base, so glycerin, chamomile, vitamin E, aloe vera, things that if you don’t have our formula you want to look for some lotions to put on after you apply a hand sanitizer, but when you can get it all in one application that’s really a lovely spot to be in. So our hand sanitizer, we went ahead and named it Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner because we wanted you to recognize—our users, our customers—that they would be getting a full-range experience. This is really a hand sanitizer unlike anything else in the marketplace. It’s an antimicrobial gel that delivers the perfect solution. Since alcohol does dry out your skin, this moisturizing experience in conjunction with the alcohol is really the perfect duo, and it conditions even as you clean. So it’s the best of both worlds.   [0:14:13] Ashley James: I read somewhere that you only need it to be 65% alcohol to kill the coronavirus, is that correct?   [0:14:20] Faith Flatt: There are two different types of alcohol. One type of alcohol it takes 70%, and that is the type that we use inside of our formula.   [0:14:33] Ashley James: Got it, got it. Do you know the reason behind choosing the type of alcohol you guys chose over the other type?   [0:14:41] Faith Flatt: I’ll tell you that I’m not the person who directly oversees our alcohol purchases, but it is very difficult right now to obtain alcohol. I’m sure that perhaps that had something to do with our decision, but we are committed to getting alcohol in stock and keeping it in stock because we think this is so necessary and important for our customers. One interesting thing as well is that the price of alcohol has more than doubled since the crisis began. So we’re really in a battle for the commodities and essentials that everyone needs and that we even need to make this formula, but we are committed to making this available to our customers. We really want to bring all of the resources that we with our FDA-monitored facility, our ability to make FDA-approved labels to give people a formula they trust from a brand they trust in this—what is really a—warlike effort right now where all small businesses, all-hands-on-deck need to come together to help fight the crisis that we’re in the middle of. As a company, for us, this is our positive action. We’re willing to fight and find the alcohol that we need to source for this formula.   [0:16:06] Ashley James: Awesome. The very first ingredient is aloe juice, which I think is really cool. Everyone knows that aloe juice is very healthy for the skin, it’s anti-inflammatory, it’s very soothing. I had an expert on the show about aloe and the healing benefits. There are several scientific studies that show that aloe increases healing time so much so that it almost doubles healing time.  So when you put aloe on a burn or a cut, you will see it heal in half the amount of time it would take. If it would take, let’s say, three days to heal a burn, you put aloe on it it’s only going to take a day and a half. You have the first ingredient is medicinal, it’s something that helps to heal the skin, condition the skin, and keep it healthy. It’s like a layer of protection. Can you tell us about the other ingredients?   [0:17:06] Faith Flatt: Sure. Most of them are ingredients that the average person is going to be familiar with. Aloe vera—as you were mentioning—chamomile, vitamin E, and glycerin. While those ingredients have really positive connotations and I absolutely believe what you’re saying about aloe vera and love those types of ingredients for my own personal use with my family, we are very limited in what we’re actually able to say that each ingredient specifically does inside of the formula. We mix those in so that you do get nourishing effects, but as far as the individual benefit of each ingredient, we’re limited in what we can say that it actually does for you.   [0:17:52] Ashley James: Oh, right because you can’t make health claims as a company. You can’t say, “Buy our hand cream and your psoriasis will be gone.” You can’t make health claims, whereas if someone were to take these individual ingredients and they could go search the NIH or PubMed, they could find the scientific studies showing that these individual ingredients are safe. That they’ve been proven to be safe, and some of them are proven to actually be medicinal and healing, but combined together it’s made a hand sanitizer, that it protects your hands, and it also protects your skin.   [0:18:27] Faith Flatt: Right. We can promise you that this is going to condition your skin, and it’s going to leave you feeling nourished and moisturized. Certainly, I encourage you to do some research on these ingredients and see what some of the extra benefits to you could be.   [0:18:46] Ashley James: Right, right. Well, it’s funny because you’re at the grocery store and some of the grocery stores still have hand sanitizer to offer the customers, not to buy but just like a giant jug. We were at Whole Foods and they had this giant jug of this just regular run-of-the-mill hand sanitizer. I’m pumping it to my hand, giving some to my son, and my husband turns to me and he goes, “Isn’t that carcinogenic?” I look at him, I’m like, “Yeah.” We normally don’t use this stuff—the generic hand sanitizers—because you look and there are parabens and there are all kinds of carcinogenic, like you said, fillers, and preservatives, and whatever that is known to cause cancer, that is known to cause damage to the body. We normally—as a family—don’t touch those with a ten foot pole, but now it’s like, “Well, either that or we might accidentally get the coronavirus.” Of course, we’re self-isolating now, but back when we were seeing our son’s grandparents a few weeks ago I was worried. I was like, “Well, what’s going on? What’s going to happen?” I’d love to get them because they go grocery shopping, and I’m just worried about them. They’re almost in their 80s, I’m worried. I’m worried that they might catch the germ when they’re out grocery shopping because they don’t have access to hand sanitizer. So I’m definitely going to get them. I’m going to ship them a tube of this for sure. How much do you use, because it’s only like a pea-sized amount? This tube is going to last me forever because you just put a pea-sized amount. Because it’s a gel, it covers both sides of your hands really quickly. Is there a recommended how much you should use on your hands to make sure that it works?   [0:20:39] Faith Flatt: No. The only recommendation, really, is just to make a little drop. A lot of people don’t know this but you do want to rub your hands all around your hands until it’s dry, and then that will make sure that the alcohol gets a chance to activate and to actually kill the germs. Right now especially, we want to make sure we’re using the hand sanitizer properly. I’m glad you mentioned the tube as well. That’s one of my favorite features of this formula. The container makes it very easy to share with your kids, or if your friend or somebody around you wants to borrow some hand sanitizer—you don’t necessarily want them touching your pump bottle—so the tube just makes it really easy to drop a little bit on the top of their hand and not share germs in that way.   [0:21:30] Ashley James: Pump bottles waste so much because you end up getting way too much in your hands. That’s what everyone thinks they need that much, but I think it’s intentional that these companies do that so that you go through it faster and then you buy more. Whereas with yours, you get to squeeze out however much you want and it’s, like you said, a gel. I squeeze out about a pea-sized—maybe a large pee, maybe an edamame size—and then I rub both sides of my hands, and in between my fingers, and then it dries really fast—within seconds. That’s actually good information about rubbing your hands until it’s dry, but I use so much less with yours versus the pump ones, so I really like that. Now you said your company—for years—has been dabbling with so I’m sure you guys had like a formula in mind or did you kind of go back to the drawing board and start from scratch three weeks ago when you were inventing the hand sanitizer?   [0:22:33] Faith Flatt: I think we knew the base of what we wanted to do, and then just getting it into that finalized position, and getting all of the marketing material, and making sure that we were able to communicate clearly, that we had the correct label on the formula. That was really what the focus was over the last week and a half, but we certainly had a good idea of what ingredients would work well so that you do get that wonderful experience you’re sharing with us. We’ve got some wonderful testimonials from some early users of the formula, and I just wanted to share some of those with you. Let’s see, Elisa, she said, “That the smooth finish and silky filling are delightful,” which is not something you commonly hear after using a hand sanitizer. It’s usually a dry icky feeling. Joe said, “Clean hands with no dry feeling. Perfect.” Bethany loves that it’s not scented. Then Ryan said that it doesn’t dry his hands out. We’re definitely getting the results we wanted from this formula, and the feedback so far is that people are happy and happy to have it. Like you mentioned, you want to send this to members of your family. It’s a strange time to live in where hand sanitizer is probably one of the best gifts you could get right now, but it’s so hard to find and it’s so essential as a first line of defense against this disease. That we’re happy to be doing it. It really fits back into who we are as a company. Real Time Pain Relief’s primary goal is to make sure that individuals have a first line of defense when pain enters their home, and so that’s what we’ve been passionate about with our topical pain reliefs for a long time is to make sure that you have an option that doesn’t have those fillers inside of it, that doesn’t lead you to popping a pain pill anytime pain enters your home. Because one of the best ways to avoid a bad habit or to make good health choices is to make sure that you have an alternative. So we’re happy we’re able to provide that non-carcinogenic hand sanitizer to our customer base because everyone needs it right now, and now you have another alternative.   [0:25:02] Ashley James: Absolutely. Yes, I’m loving it. I started thinking about all the families I know that are multi-generational like my dear, dear Aunt Sally—who I love to bits—lives just outside of LA. She’s in her 80s—I think she’s 86—and she lives with her grandchildren, and her son, and her son’s wife. These kids—well, now they’re not going to school—they might be going to the park, they might be running around, maybe they’ll have a playdate, maybe they’re on lockdown I don’t know. They might go out and maybe they see a friend in the street. Maybe they accidentally catch the virus, or maybe they go to the grocery store. If they don’t have access to hand sanitizer, they might bring it back and in fact my aunt who is in the vulnerable population because statistics are showing that those who are seniors are much more likely to have severe effects of the virus versus youth. So think of all the people you know where a senior citizen lives in a family, where there are maybe younger people, they may be asymptomatic if they catch the virus, but if they bring it home it could be fatal for someone else in the home. That’s why this hand sanitizer is so important that the younger generations use it to protect the older generations right now. Of course, the older generations should use it too. Everyone should use it. I just think that people—like teenagers and people in their 20s because I remember I was there—we kind of feel invincible. Like, “Oh, whatever. If I get it, it won’t be a problem.” What if you get it and you’re asymptomatic, and for two weeks you’re shedding it and giving it to everyone you come in contact with. That is potentially murdering people. I know I’m being extreme and normally I’m not a fear monger—I feel like I’m being one right now—but just to paint the picture, something as simple as keeping a hand sanitizer with us at all times can save lives. Just like people are saying, “Well, masks in certain situations can save lives.” Hand sanitizer, I think, is more important because you are going to touch something and then you touch your eye. That through the eye—they’re saying is one of the biggest ways that we can catch the coronavirus.  Obviously, through eyes, nose, and mouth, but even if you’re wearing a mask—if you’re wearing a mask and you’re wearing gloves—and then you touch the virus, and you don’t realize it, and then you accidentally rub your eye—even with gloves on—you’re still potentially putting the virus in your eyes. That’s where hand sanitizers are the most important thing to do. I know we’re not going to make a huge long interview on hand sanitizer, but I wanted to just cover it as much as possible to let the listeners know that I was so excited that it’s available.  So listeners go to learntruehealth.com/hand. That’s learntruehealth.com/hand and grab some. Grab some for yourself, grab some for your neighbors, grab some for your loved ones. Your company will ship it to them. How fast is the shipping? You gave me the information that you are producing 30,000 units a day. Are you able to produce more than that or are you shutting down making your other products? Could you make more than 30,000? Are you selling out? How fast does it ship? Is it selling out or is there any fear that you’re going to sell out? We want to know.   [0:29:01] Faith Flatt: We started out really slowly even though—like I said three weeks and then a week and a half later it’s available—it doesn’t sound too slow, but we’ve taken it cautiously. First of all, no, we’re not stopping producing our topical pain relief formulas. So to anybody who uses Real Time Pain Relief, don’t panic. We’re still doing that because pain relief is an essential service, and we definitely know you need that. We’re just taking more precautions, and cleaning our facilities, and making sure that you’ve got a clean delivery every time. We have transitioned a portion of our production line into putting out 30 units a day. At first, we thought, “Okay, that’s really going to be enough to supply our customers. Get them all caught up and we’ll be in a good spot,” but what’s interesting, Ashley, is within about 48 hours of releasing this formula to a limited group of our customers at first—because we wanted to make sure we had our stockpile good before we released it to all of our customers—we were being hit up by major organizations and businesses across the country saying, “Hey, we need this too.” So we realized quickly that we could service and help in this fight, not just by making hand sanitizer available to our customer base but also to supplying America’s workforce. By this, I mean organizations and corporations who are really keeping America running right now. We hear so much right now about the heroes who are our nurses and doctors. They’re getting a ton of attention, and they deserve that so much, but there’s another segment that really has become a hero—all of the grocery store operators, all of the truckers, all of the takeout deliveries services. These people are literally risking their lives much more than those of us who are able to isolate at home, and they need hand sanitizer. They’re low on hand sanitizer. I live in a small town in New Hampshire so you get to know everyone at the cash register and they become your friends. You realize they’re still out there right now, I’m isolating at home with my children and their heroes. It just almost brings tears to your eyes to recognize that some of them don’t have access to hand sanitizers. So when we started getting those calls we realized we were going to make this a big priority. We were able to put together a large enough supply, and we believe we’ll be able to maintain it. We are able to offer wholesale packages to businesses and organizations starting at 42 units—depending on the size of the company. Maybe you have friends or family who own a business or organization, 42 units all the way up to 100,000 units. If you know somebody who’s in need of a large quantity of hand sanitizer, we want to help. We want to make that available to you because we believe that everybody deserves to have access to hand sanitizer as a first line of defense from this disease.   [0:32:27] Ashley James: I love it. You started out making 30,000 units a day, what’s your production now?   [0:32:33] Faith Flatt: Right now we’re still producing 30,000 units a day. We do have it in stock at the time of this recording, but just for peace of mind for customers, we do have an estimated ship date on the landing page. So whenever you go to order it’ll indicate when your hand sanitizer will ship.   [0:32:58] Ashley James: Yeah, and it was fast. That’s great news. Shipping right now is kind of—like Amazon, for example, I ordered something and it said it’s not going to arrive until April 21st but then it arrived the next day. So I’m like, “What’s going on?” I think shipping’s being a little weird for other companies like USPS, and FedEx, and UPS. I’m not sure if they’re limiting their staff, or if they’re maybe overloaded because everyone’s home so they’re ordering online, or if they’re limiting their staff because they have to do social distancing. What I do know is that I got my shipment from you guys superfast. I was really excited about that, and so far, all your customers that you released it to were able to get it, and start using it, and give feedback so that’s great.   [0:33:57] Faith Flatt: Yeah. We’ve actively been able to fill orders, and we have enough right now to be filling very quickly, and we’re still servicing large accounts that are calling us and needing the supply. Our first priority is to our customer base, but we do have everything in place to be able to service these organizations and unsung heroes with hand sanitizer as well. One thing I wanted to throw out as well is that we’re not the only company contributing in the hand sanitizer realm right now. There are a lot of small businesses lending a big hand. I’m sure you may have heard that a lot of distilleries right now are making hand sanitizer. One thing about those is the distilleries are not licensed to both produce and sell the formulas. So that influx of hand sanitizer doesn’t necessarily make it out to the general population. What most of that is going to—most of those hand sanitizer supplies—are being donated to first responders, and government officials, and nurses, so that’s wonderful. We’re really happy that the distilleries are helping to fill that gap there. Then we’re happy to be here helping just the everyday consumer. One thing for healthcare officials compared to just the everyday person, you have to wash their hands up to a hundred times a day—so much more than we do—they’re going to be going through that quickly. So it’s nice that we can all partner together in this really warlike effort to help make sure that everyone is taken care of.   [0:35:39] Ashley James: I just thought, wouldn’t it be cool if you have the means—the listener who’s listening right now—to buy ten bottles, for example. If you have the means to do so, give a bottle to your mailman, give a bottle to UPS driver. We have a Facebook group of 270 people that are just our neighbors in our little neighborhood of maybe three square miles, and our UPS driver joined our Facebook group, which just blows my mind. He posted updates. He’s like, “I want to let you guys know that I am sanitizing my hands in between every single delivery.” Back when we had the snowstorm where no one could get out of their driveway for over a week—unless you had a four-wheel drive—he posted that because he couldn’t even get into our neighborhood. He would stay for an hour by the gas station near our area, and for those who could get out, he’d be able to give their packages to them. He’s been in communication with us in times of crisis, but he said, “I promise you, I am doing everything I can to make sure that your deliveries are safe. That I keep myself sanitized.” I’m just thinking these postal workers who are actually taking the time to buy their own hand sanitizer—if they can, which no one can find any—so I would love to get him a bottle because everyone’s running out. So your mailman, the checker at your grocery store if they don’t have any, the people that you run into even though we’re supposed to be self-isolating, but the people that you do run into when you go like the checkers, and the mailman, and the delivery people, and your neighbors, and your loved ones, obviously. We could—if we have the means—buy some extra bottles so that we can give it to those who have to be out there. Like you said, delivery people who have to be out there and don’t have access to it. That’d be really cool to pass it along. One of my friends posted on Facebook that their church is encouraging them to leave toilet paper out on their front porch. Obviously, not in the weather, but underneath the roof or whatever. Leave some toilet paper out on the porch, and so if anyone needs some they’ll see some toilet paper and they’ll get it. Then other churches I heard were encouraging people to make a clear plastic bin with essentials like food and toilet paper with a sign that says, “If you need some please take it.” That way, we’re helping our community, we’re helping each other especially those in need because there are those in our community who lost their jobs, who were living paycheck to paycheck. Now they have to figure out how to make ends meet.  If even just buying one bottle of hand sanitizer for that person because now they’re going to do Uber Eats or something, and they’re going to be a delivery person just to make ends meet that’s supportive of them. If we can get together and figure out how we can support the people in our community who aren’t being supported by giving them some extra toilet paper, or giving them some food, or giving them a hand sanitizer then we will all help each other. Arising tide floats all boats. I love that saying because I imagine all the neighborhoods being lifted up because we are all the tide that’s rising. We are all doing that effort together.  So if we can think about how we can help others in our community, if we have the means, if you have the means help. Do what you can. Do it safely, but do what you can. Just because we’re such a social distancing doesn’t mean that we don’t still help each other and still care for each other. It has been so great having you on the show to talk about this. I’m really excited that you’re providing this really essential service. Is there anything else that you’d like to say about your company, about this hand sanitizer, just any of the science or the studies? Is there anything that you really want to make sure that you got to say today?   [0:40:21] Faith Flatt: I’d love to thank you, first of all, for having us just to talk about this new formula that really can make a difference. I want to say, “Make sure you are practicing good hygiene and utilizing any hand sanitizer, but of course, the Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner from Real Time is wonderful, but first of all, we believe that everyone deserves the ability to fight off germs.” As you said, Ashley, we all have our part to play to protect those around us, so hand sanitizer is just very important right now. We’re excited to be doing our part. I want to say one last time that if you’re an organization, or a business, or you know of one that’s a need of hand sanitizer, or you yourself just want to share it with others, as Ashley recommended, we’ve got some wonderful bundle options available. We’re just looking forward to partnering with you to get Hand Sanitizer + Skin Conditioner into more people’s hands.   [0:41:25] Ashley James: Awesome. Listeners can go to learntruehealth.com/hand. That’s learntruehealth.com/hand to buy the hand sanitizer—either individual or like you said the bundles. You can also use the coupon code LTH to get a fun gift. It’s been such a pleasure having you on the show, Faith. Thank you so much for all you do. I know you’ve been working like a fiend the last three weeks to help get this hand sanitizer out there. I’m really impressed that you guys could turn around in that short period of time and produce such a high-quality product, but I shouldn’t be surprised because that’s what you guys do. So it’s been pretty awesome. I also recommend—if listeners do have any pain—check out their other pain creams. I am a big fan of the MAXX Pain Cream myself, but you guys also have other formulas. George Foreman has his own formula, which has everything in it. I haven’t tried that one yet, but I’ve heard that it’s now everyone’s favorite formula.   [0:42:32] Faith Flatt: It’s a knockout, I’ll tell you.   [0:42:36] Ashley James: Well, I loved everything George Foreman’s ever done, so I wouldn’t be surprised. So listeners, when you go to learntruehealth.com/hand and you buy your hand sanitizer, then if you do have any pain, or if you know a friend or family member that has pain then also check out the different pain creams, the George Foreman pain cream. I looked at all the ingredients, I was really, really impressed with everything that was in it. That it actually does work. I have even given some of your pain creams to some friends who are in chronic pain with fibromyalgia and with osteoporosis. They were so thankful. I’ve heard nothing but good feedback from experiencing your pain cream so I was really happy. The fact that people significantly reduce their pain meds when using your pain creams is so beautiful because those pain meds are so harmful to the body. If we can do it naturally then we’re really protecting that person in the long run. So, thank you for everything you do. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to hearing from the listeners. Listeners can go to the Facebook group—the Learn True Health Facebook group—and share with us your experience with this hand sanitizer. How you and your family are enjoying it. I would also love to hear from the listeners—in the Facebook group—how you gifted this hand sanitizer to someone in your community. I think that’s so inspirational. I love those stories of pay it forward. So if you do buy the hand sanitizer for someone else please post it in the Learn True Health Facebook group. I’d love to hear that story. It’s like one of those Christmas tales where the whole town doesn’t have any presents or something really bad happens. We all come together and we end up making a Christmas miracle. So we’re all going to come together, and give each other hand sanitizer, and support each other in this really crazy time. Faith, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for producing this hand sanitizer. I am going shopping today and I can’t wait to bring it with me. I feel very happy that I have this tube right now when I go grocery shopping today.   [0:45:05] Faith Flatt: Well, I’m glad you have it too. Thank you for having me, Ashley.     Get Connected With Faith Flatt: Official Website Facebook Twitter 

To Buy The Supplements That Dr. Cabral Talks About: EquilibriumNutrition.com/LTH and use coupon code LTH10 for the listener discount! More links to info from Dr. Cabral: StephenCabral.com/virus StephenCabral.com/podcasts Instagram.com/stephencabral IT'S HERE! Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen Use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Check out IIN and get a free module: LearnTrueHealth.com/coaching Join the Facebook group: LearnTrueHealth.com/group   Myths and Facts About Coronavirus https://www.learntruehealth.com/myths-facts-covid-19-stephen-cabral   Highlights: Myths and facts about the Covid-19 Foundation vitamins and supplements to take What type of meals to eat Benefits of monolaurin Importance of a healthy gut biome Power of sauna therapy and heat therapy   As Covid-19 affects most countries around the world with increasing infections, countless myths and theories have come out about Covid-19. Dr. Stephen Cabral is back on the show with us and he debunks some myths about the Covid-19 coronavirus. He talks about the facts surrounding the Covid-19, and he also gives us some tips on what foods to eat and what supplements to take to have a higher chance of fighting off Covid-19. Intro: Hello true health seekers and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. This one is amazing. I’ve been so excited to get this out there for you. Dr. Stephen Cabral answers all of the listeners’ questions on the Covid-19 virus and what we can do to support our body’s ability to stay as healthy as possible. I think you’re going to love today’s interview. Now, I want to let you know that Dr. Stephen Cabral gives the listeners a discount on his website. He did this when he came back on the show the first time. You can listen to my two previous interviews with Dr. Stephen Cabral by going to episode 271 and 301. You can find them on your favorite podcast directory, or you can go to learntruehealth.com. Dr. Stephen Cabral’s website is equilibriumnutrition.com/lth. If you put the /lth that gives you a special website, and then you use the coupon code LTH10 for a 10% off for the listeners. Go to equilibriumnutrition.com/lth, and use the coupon code LTH10. That information will also be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Dr. Stephen Cabral also talks about the power of sauna therapy and heat therapy. I did share how much I love my Sunlighten Sauna. If you are interested in getting a sauna they even have personalized one person saunas that you can pack up, and put away, and fits into your closet when you’re not using it. It’s called the Solo System. You can go to sunlighten.com and check out their amazing saunas. I’ve had one for over two years now. Our whole family loves it. It’s low EMF, non-toxic. It’s actually ultra-low EMF and non-toxic. It’s the only sauna that gives you the entire spectrum near, mid, and far infrared. I’ve also interviewed the founder of Sunlighten. Actually, I’ve done a few interviews on the Sunlighten Sauna there science and all the research that went into making those saunas. It took me a while to figure out exactly which sauna I wanted to buy because there are so many great ones out there, but when you dig deeper you find that a lot of them are toxic, or they’re high in EMFs. My favorite is the Sunlighten Sauna for the fact that it is ultra-low EMF, non-toxic. Non-toxic wood, there are no glues. They put a lot into making sure that it’s a very safe product. Also, it has the full spectrum, so you’re getting the benefit of the near, mid, and far infrared spectrum. I’ve done interviews specifically about why each part of that spectrum is so important. The fact that we have receptors on our cells for that light—sunlight or light—is actually a nutrient that the body is missing. If you can’t get outside and get in the sunlight for an hour a day, you’re deplete in this nutrient, which is just amazing. It blows my mind. I did a whole interview with Dr. Khan on that subject. If you’re interested in getting a sauna, check out Sunlighten. They do give a great discount to the listeners. They give free shipping, and shipping for saunas is usually around $500. Then on top of that, they also give us $100 in a variety of the accessories that would go with your sauna. They usually also give the listeners something really cool. Go ahead and call Sunlighten, get more info from them. Let them know that you’re a listener of Learn True Health podcast with Ashley James, and they will hook you up. Awesome. Make sure that you remember equilibriumnutrition.com/lth, and the coupon code LTH10, or just go to the show notes of this episode for all that information. Enjoy today’s interview, and please, share it with absolutely everyone. I normally say share my episodes with those you love or those you care about. This is one of those episodes where you want to share with literally every single person you know, your mailman, just email it to everyone. Get it out there. We have to get as many people as we know—hundreds and hundreds of people. If you have 200 Facebook friends, all of them need to know this. We’ve got to keep sharing this information because Dr. Cabral answers all the questions and gives us the answers that we really need. We need all of our neighbors, and our loved ones, and our co-workers, and our church friends, and everyone to know this information. I’m really excited to get this information out there because we’re going to save a lot of lives and help a lot of people to stay healthy. Excellent. Have a fantastic rest of your day and enjoy today’s episode.   [0:05:03] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 421. I am so excited to have back on the show Dr. Stephen Cabral. You were in episode 271, 301, and now episode 421. There’s something going on with the ones. It’s such a pleasure to have you back on the show.   [0:05:32] Dr. Stephen Cabral: It’s great to be back. Thank you for having me on, I appreciate it.   [0:05:34] Ashley James: Absolutely. I’ve been reaching out to the holistic health community, the Naturopathic doctors that I work with, or that I interview asking if there’s some expert information that you can bring to the table for the listeners around Covid-19 and the coronavirus. What we should do for preparedness, for prevention, to boost the immune systems, to support the terrain of the body? What we should do if we get it, and how to avoid it? Should we be panicking? Is the closure of the world necessary? Are we jumping the gun or should we really all stay at home? Just getting the advice from the doctors who have pored through all the studies and the information. They really do know how to help us make the safest decisions for ourselves and our families without letting fear run our lives. I’m really excited to have you on the show to clear up a lot of misconceptions. Because you come from a science background, you’re deeply involved in the results in the science, but you have a holistic approach—which is much different. You have different tools in your tool belt than MDs do because you have a strong foundation in holistic medicine and supporting the body’s ability to heal itself. I’m really looking forward to diving into today’s topic. Thank you so much for coming on the show and helping clear up some myths around Covid-19.   [0:07:10] Dr. Stephen Cabral: It is great to be on. What I want to do today is really come at this from an integrative approach. My philosophy has always been that there is simply no alternative than alternative medicine—as what conventional medicine calls it—for chronic-based disease. That means if anybody’s suffering from high cholesterol, high blood pressure, autoimmune, migraines, none of that can be successfully dealt with through pharmaceuticals or conventional medicine. It simply masks the symptoms. However, when there is an acute-based disease sometimes we do need conventional medicine, and it’s actually life-saving. What I want to do today is to show you—just like you said—the best ways to boost your immune system, the best ways to absolutely stay healthy. That is by balancing the body. Then if you were—specifically a parent or grandparent—to get this particular Covid-19 virus, what you may look towards in terms of conventional medicine in order to help those people as well. I’m really looking forward to being on and going through all the actual facts. Not a lot of what’s being spread by the fair machine, which is the media right now.   [0:08:19] Ashley James: Awesome. Well, today is March 24th just before noon, Pacific Time. Very up-to-date information. I’m going to be publishing this sometime on the weekend, so just in a few days from now. Those who are listening, this is still very new information, very relevant especially because you’re taking an integrative approach. Let’s start by you maybe just explaining what the virus does, how it spreads, and myth-busting any misconceptions that are going around right now about it.   [0:08:57] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Absolutely, and it is very similar. That’s why we know a bit about it because it’s very similar to severe upper respiratory syndrome—a specific issue that’s affecting a lung tissue. It does seem to have an affinity for lung tissue—meaning this particular virus—but it does enter through the eyes, the nose, or the mouth. That’s why although a lot has been made of hand-washing—that’s absolutely true—but really, what we need to do is it’s not going to enter through our hands or our skin unless there is a cut. Really, the only way it’s entering our body is from our hands touching our eyes, nose, or mouth. That’s why this is one of those times to teach our kids and to teach others, keep your hands away from your face for sure. Also, there is the other factor, which is it’s airborne. The same meaning it can be transmitted in the same way as the flu. This has a lot of similarities to the influenza virus and the flu as well—one and the same. The difference is that this virus seems to live a little bit longer outside of the body—on many surfaces—up to 72 hours. The new research does show—on metals and things like copper—it’s only a couple hours that it survives. On other surfaces maybe 24 hours, but we know up to 72 hours as well. People can feel pretty good though because it does not seem to be able to be passed on through food, or supplements, or medications, or anything like that. So it can definitely put our minds to ease in that way. A bigger part of this as well, we’re doing a lot of research, a lot of research has come out over the last couple weeks, and I’d love to be able to share that in a moment too of what is working. We are also seeing that the virus—at least initially—is being effectively stopped slowed I should say. Stores are actually beginning to open in places like China. Their numbers are not rapidly increasing where we did see a rapid increase in the beginning. Other places like South Korea have made tremendous strides by implementing social isolation or social distancing, increasing the amount of testing that they have for people, and also having enough ventilators for those people most in need. In terms of what we’re seeing right now, we’re actually seeing some positivity. That’s allowing us to stay—well right now we’re at 407,000 cases worldwide so this a pandemic based issue. We are slowing the spread as of right now, which is good as we develop a lot of these life-saving tools that we will need.   [0:11:41] Ashley James: Can we become immune to it by having it? Can we become immune like, “I had chickenpox and now I’m immune to it?” I’ve heard—it may be just a myth or some misinformation spread around—that this particular virus cannot be something that we can become immune to. So each year it could come around just like the flu and we could reget it.   [0:12:07] Dr. Stephen Cabral: This is a great question. It actually has to do with this strain. I’d like to explain that because 80% of people who get Covid-19 show no symptoms—for the most part very, very minor. We know that children and even teenagers under the age of 19, it seems, are almost non-affected. Keep in mind, they are still getting the virus, they’re just not showing symptoms. Well, there’s a hypothesis. There’s hypothesis they have greater amounts of melatonin, which now we’re showing that melatonin is actually helping tremendously. They have typically not as high cortisol based production, so they don’t have as much amino suppression. They have a more balanced which is called Th1, Th2 based immune system. Just keep in mind that anybody with a good healthy balanced immune system, they get the flu, or they get Covid-19, and they have maybe a day or two of feeling a little rundown, but that’s the most symptoms they have. Then other people, when they get the flu, they might have it for 24 hours. They might start to feel a little bit, again, more fatigue, more joint pain, a queasy stomach. Then there are others that then get the full-blown symptoms of the flu, which is the joint pain and the fever. Then with Covid-19 the bigger difference is the lungs are getting inflamed. We are getting an inability to actually produce—as an expectorant—the mucus out of the lungs. People aren’t actually dying from the virus per se just like they don’t die necessarily from the flu. They die from the complications, which is pneumonia. That’s why the average age of death mimics the flu with Covid-19, not a lot of people talking about this. The average age is well into the 70s. Right now it’s 77.4 years old to 81 depending on the source. That’s because until about the age of 65, we’re seeing a very low mortality rate, but it spikes dramatically over the age of 70-75. That is why when it comes to social distancing it’s unfortunate, but we can’t have kids and young people around our parents and grandparents because they’re most susceptible, and they show no symptoms at all. Can you get this virus again? Most likely and potentially, but it would have to be the same meaning you could build up antibodies to it for sure—because that’s what our body does—but the virus for the flu each year changes as well in terms of strain. There’s actually 200-300 different strains of virus. I know it’s complicated, but hopefully, that makes a little bit of sense.   [0:14:35] Ashley James: I’m just seeing this world like I don’t know if this is my fear-based mind going like, “Are we just going to—every flu season—need to completely shut down the world for three months every year because this is going to mutate and keep coming back and keep coming back and keep coming back? Or are we going to all eventually have enough herd immunity because enough of us have had it—even though we’re asymptomatic—and have mounted an immune response to where it’s not going to be a pandemic every year?”   [0:15:04] Dr. Stephen Cabral: It’s a great question, and I don’t quite know the answer because I don’t know if the reaction right now is appropriate. We’re taking all the proper precautions, which I think is appropriate because maybe this does get to the point where—I mean we have Harvard epidemiologists saying, “Well, this could affect 40% to 70% of the population across the globe.” That’s 3 billion people. I don’t know anything that’s ever affected 3 billion people in this way. The flu, in the United States, affects 30 million, some people say 50 million people a year. I believe this Covid-19 virus has actually affected 10 times the amount of people. We have 407,000 cases. It’s probably more like 4 million people. The reason is just people are not showing signs. I mean you can see all these people out there saying, “Oh, I was tested and I had it.” Well, yes you did and you had a healthy balanced immune system. So your body—unknown to you—fought it off. That’s what our bodies are meant to do if they’re healthy and balanced. Now, many other people don’t have healthy immune systems because they smoke, they drink too much alcohol, they don’t get enough sleep, they’re on medications that suppress their immune system. Yeah, we are at a lot more risk, and it’s one of the reasons why Italy did not fare as well. One, they didn’t take it fast enough. Two, many people smoked in Italy, and they have a higher aged population, and they live in very close quarters. Meaning the way that it’s spread is about 1 to 1.5 people. Every person with the flu has the ability—doesn’t necessarily happen. Average infection is they infect a 1 1/2 other people. With this, it seems to be about a 1 to 3 so you can see that it does affect twice as many people as the flu. Let’s say it did that, would we reach then 100 million people? Maybe, but I just don’t know. Again, we have to take the proper precautions, but if we didn’t do it for the flu, should we be doing it for Covid-19? I just wonder. The reason is that we’re not really social distancing. If you allow people to go to the grocery food store, and you allow them to go to doctors. You only allow 10 people at a time. I’ve gone to places, ok I get it, but I’m standing in line with 100 other people outside the store. People can be asymptomatic for 14 days. I don’t necessarily know that all of this working. It is working from, okay, maybe we can slow it in order to increase hospital beds and ventilators. I get that and I believe in it, but really, what we need to do is be careful and really watch out for our most at-risk populations. I don’t have the answer, but certainly, we can’t do this every year because just the restaurant industry alone, 7 million jobs lost in the United States. These are people’s lives. These are people’s literal lives as well. I feel for people on all sides of the fence.   [0:18:06] Ashley James: You’re saying that potentially, one of the more conservative ways we could have gone about it is to isolate all the older population from the rest of us to protect them from being exposed?   [0:18:23] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I’m trying to think of it from every side of the equation. That’s just because I have family members and friends. They’ve lost jobs. Now their family’s lives are at stake. Meaning, literally, their livelihood, paying their rent. I don’t know what the right answer is because I don’t want this to spread, but now that I know that most people—because I see the curve—are going to be okay even if they get the virus. Now I want to protect those people that are most at risk. As a doctor that’s what I want to do, but I also want to help the entire economy and the world because this will end. Then what happens when it ends? I’m just trying to think of it from many perspectives.   [0:19:04] Ashley James: What kind of precedent will we put in place now for future outbreaks? Will we go, “Okay. This works.” So now we shut down the world every time. The problem is if we overreact people lose jobs and become homeless. That’s also not helping the population, but of course, we don’t want to under-react and people die. We need the Goldilocks of responses and hopefully, enough grounded, science-based people come together in governments. Hopefully, we can pray that they make rational decisions, especially for future outbreaks. You said a person with a healthy balanced immune system, they don’t have a problem. When they get infected they’re often asymptomatic. So really, the best thing we can do right now is focus on having a healthy balanced immune system since those who are exposed to it—who have a healthy balanced immune system—either are completely asymptomatic or have much milder symptoms because the body moves through fighting it quicker. Then you talked earlier about how children have higher melatonin and lower cortisol, which cortisol is the stress hormone. You mentioned that cortisol suppresses the immune system. Fear increases cortisol—fear and worry. If you’re worried about not being able to pay rent and worried about having lost your job—7 million people just in the restaurant industry, those are 7 million people with high cortisol right now. Cortisol is lowering their immune system making them more susceptible to the virus. We need to lower our stress and lower our fear to help bring down our cortisol, to support ourselves in fighting this. It’s kind of this catch-22.   [0:21:02] Dr. Stephen Cabral: You’re exactly correct. I do something to my practice called the DESTRESS protocol. It’s diet, exercise, stress reduction, toxic removal, rest, emotional balance, supplement protocols, and success mindset. If you look at the STRESS part of it—the rest which is sleep, the emotional balance, and that success mindset—that’s four out of the eight. We’re really looking at a mind, body, mental, emotional-based equation. Because not a lot of people believe that, but when you look at it from a science perspective when your mind perceives stress, the hypothalamus in the brain tells the pituitary gland to tell the adrenals to produce stress hormones. When that happens your immune system or your body shifts into that fight-or-flight—the sympathetic nervous system. At that time, mucus production actually starts to slow. It goes down. Mucus production contains what’s called our secretory IgA white blood cells. That’s our first-line defense in our nose, our mouth, and all throughout the mucous layer of the body. That’s exactly what the elderly lack. One of the reasons why the elderly are more susceptible is thinner mucous membranes natural killer cells, and less balanced immune system, more prone to inflammation, and less reserves—like less vitamins, less minerals, they’re more catabolic, they have less protein. When we look at that we could see stress actually mimics your chances of having a worse reaction to a virus—any virus, or any disease, or any bacteria. This is the time actually—and it’s obviously easier said than done—to calm our bodies as much as possible. Whether it’s going and doing some meditation, or yoga, or a lighter at-home workout because we don’t want to do a super hard workout right now, which would again stress our body and lower immune system. Binaural beats is a great one, tapping like flow tank, Epsom salt baths, whatever works for you, essential oils to calm stress, I can’t recommend it enough.   [0:23:07] Ashley James: Excellent. I say make a list of the things that you know that calm you and get out of the fight-or-flight response and keep posting notes around the house, especially those of us in states where we’re quarantined in our homes so that you’re reminded. Laugh every day. Make sure you watch some funny YouTube videos of comedians and laugh every day. I love the essential oils. You can do home yoga. Cuddle, get the oxytocin up. Oxytocin goes up, cortisol goes down. Our 30-second hugs and cuddles with your pets and your other humans in your house, and give each other back rubs or shoulder rubs. Do things that increase joy, and oxytocin, increase the love hormone and that will decrease the stress hormone. That is going to help boost our immune system because high cortisol, you said, is an immune suppressor. That’s the opposite of what we want right now. The virus spreads airborne. I heard somewhere that when someone sneezes and they have the virus that it could travel 12 feet before it hits the ground. Once it’s hit the ground—so if we’re 12 feet away from someone, so even this idea of 6 feet social distancing doesn’t necessarily work if someone sneezes and it travels 12 feet. If we walk on the ground and the virus is on the ground, then it gets on our shoe, and we come home, and we don’t take off our shoes. We walk around the house, and we track the virus in our house, and then the dog walks on it, and then the dog licks its paw, then the dog licks our face. Can it get to that point where it’s traveled to us in that way or does it die off by then?   [0:24:53] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Most likely, and again I can’t—today I’m not here to provide medical advice and certainly can’t do that over a podcast. I just want us to make sure that we’re treating, diagnosing or giving personal. Hypothetically speaking, that most likely is not a likely scenario. Is it possible? Potentially. Really, what we’re looking at is someone coughs, someone sneezes—they’re not doing it into their elbow like they should—it does become airborne. It does touch your face your, your hands, or your clothing, and then you touch that and you touch your eyes, nose, or mouth. That is how you’ll be exposed. After it’s been on an object—if it’s fresh, it hasn’t been moved around, rubbed, dropped, anything like that—then yes, you could absolutely get it from touching something else. The likelihood of you picking it up from the ground is very, very low. If it touches your dog—so that’s the thing. That’s the interesting thing about this virus is it’s not spread from animals to humans. Nobody really knows how it made the jump from bats or other types of animals to humans because this shouldn’t happen. Meaning your dog shouldn’t get human viruses, typically, and you shouldn’t get pet or animal-based viruses. Your dog licking you should be totally fine.   [0:26:19] Ashley James: What other myths are you really excited to bust today or some clarification you want to bring to us too about Covid-19?   [0:26:29] Dr. Stephen Cabral: There are so many myths. It’s unbelievable on social media. I’m literally getting 500-1000 Slack messages, comments, emails. I do look at them. I really do. I can’t respond to every single one. I do my best to, but I mean people are really grasping at anything for what could be the potential cause, what we’re really looking at. I try to just stay grounded in what we know it is, what the facts are, and then I try to say, “Has anything like this ever come about before?” We know that we have SARS, and we know that we also have another one called MERS—the Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome. What I try to do is draw from that. These particular cases and viruses did not make the massive jump to hundreds of millions of people. I feel optimistic in that way. The other thing is that we don’t know that this a bacteria causing this, or gut-based. I don’t want to get into all of them now because what people will do is start to Google them, and I don’t believe that they’re true. If there’s one that I could myth bust and it’s that elderberry—people are saying is bad for you. Have you heard that? That it causes a cytokine storm?   [0:27:52] Ashley James: Yes. Thank you. Yes, yes.   [0:27:56] Dr. Stephen Cabral: We don’t know that. That’s completely skeptical. We know that it works really well for the flu and that it’s scientifically proven meaning science-based research showing that typically three teaspoons three times a day shortens—or if not halves—the duration of the influenza virus. We know that this—although and not the same—mimics a lot of these ways. People say, “Well, it causes cytokine storm.” First of all, that’s just a catchy name. It increases certain cytokines, that’s correct, but the cytokines that increases actually help to increase the body’s immune system to destroy certain things. Yes, it can be pro-inflammatory, but when the body creates inflammation, well, it’s inflammation. It helps to repair the body, believe it or not. What elderberry does is it actually coats the virus. Think of the virus as kind of like a spiky ball, and what it does is it coats it in order to not allow it to replicate. What I’m telling people—for right now at least—they’re saying that because it creates this Th1. Th1 is how the body fights bacteria and viruses acute base tissues, where Th2 is more for chronic long-standing inflammation like allergies, asthma. If we’re going to go down the rabbit hole of saying elderberry’s an issue well, then we have about another two dozen foods and supplements we need to talk about besides elderberry. I don’t see any been talking about those. So to put people’s minds at ease, it’s probably only people would be at risk at all if they were Th1 dominant meaning that they had rheumatoid arthritis, they had Hashimoto’s. Even for them, I would say elderberry is probably still fine to use. If you were to get Covid-19, then maybe you would stop using it. I’m just playing in a conservative field. I don’t think it’s an issue at all, but just to be conservative people may want to stop that if they do end up with Covid-19.   [0:29:59] Ashley James: But they take it when they don’t have it? Why?   [0:30:03] Dr. Stephen Cabral: If you wanted to boost your immune system right now and you wanted to use that as, “Oh, I was exposed let me use this. I have no symptoms, and to help it.” We can go through the natural vitamins if you want that do work such as zinc. There’s a great correlation right now. They found this in South Korea that a lot of the younger people who ended up experiencing symptoms—one of the very first symptoms ­was a loss of taste or a loss of smell, which is very interesting because people in natural health fields—myself included—would say, “Well, that’s a really good sign of a zinc deficiency.” It didn’t mean that these people were necessarily zinc deficient in typical everyday diet, which is just breaking even, but they didn’t have enough zinc reserves. So when their body came under stress from a virus, well, it used up all those zinc reserves. That’s a really good reason to begin supplementing with zinc, zinc picolinate, or other great forms of zinc in order to boost the immune system and boost white blood cells. We’re recommending the foundation of vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc, melatonin right now. Melatonin would be probably more in let’s say the 35-40 plus range where your melatonin production might be a little less, or if you’re experiencing high levels of stress. Remember, cortisol and melatonin have an inverse relationship. If cortisol is up, melatonin is down. If melatonin is up, cortisol is down. We actually used melatonin right now as a way to reduce and drop cortisol at night, so you can get into a deeper more regenerative sleep. Happy to go into dosages things like that if you’d like, but I figured I would at least mention them.   [0:31:47] Ashley James: What about vitamin A for lung protection?   [0:31:52] Dr. Stephen Cabral: We’ve got three research studies coming out of China for high-dose vitamin C—seems to be quite effective. Zinc looking quite effective. We know these are nice immune boosters anyways. Vitamin D, typically 35 IUs per pound of bodyweight for both children and adults—assuming that you’re not maintaining a tan wherever you are in the world. Vitamin A is a tricky one. Vitamin A absolutely boosts the immune system, no doubt about it. The problem with vitamin A is in order to get that high dosage you have to take a synthetic form. A synthetic form of vitamin A can absolutely cause liver issues. If you take beta-carotene, I’m all for it. We recommend 5000 IUs of beta-carotene on a daily basis, keep your immune system balanced. We’re all about that. A little bit of the retinol palmitate, fine, but if you’re talking about 50,000 IUs, which a lot of people are right now, of vitamin A and it’s coming from the synthetic form, I can’t recommend that because I know what it does to the liver. The liver can’t process that amount of vitamin A. If we’re talking four days, five days if you were to get Covid-19, okay. Again, I’m okay with things in the short-term, but we’re using this as green medicine meaning we’re using high-dose vitamin A and high-dose vitamin D, which would be 50,000 IUs rather than like 4000 to 5000 IU’s a day as a natural form of medicine essentially because that’s a very strong dosage that I don’t recommend over time. Same with vitamin D.   [0:33:26] Ashley James: Got it. My Naturopath has people—who have lung illnesses like Covid-19—on 100,000 IUs for three days of vitamin A in addition to these other nutrients, but not long-term. It’s just during because it’s protective of the lungs. Would you agree with that?   [0:33:51] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I would. Short term usage with no previous history of liver-based issues. Someone’s not on medication that could affect their liver such an Accutane for acne, then I’d be okay with that. Same with for the high dose vitamin D, yes. Again, it comes down to people’s comfort levels as well for what they could do, and 50,000, 100,000 per day is something they could do in the short term. Under a doctor’s care, by the way. You should be under a doctor’s care if you’re doing that. Ginger—especially as a dried herb—quite effective for lungs and as an expectorant as well. Ginger is one I would recommend. Then just a few you know easy ones to that people could do would be a Manuka honey. Believe it or not, Manuka honey and black coffee is a great expectorant. Another one that’s a great expectorant is pineapple juice, fresh-pressed pineapple juice and that would include the core of the pineapple, which contains the most amount of bromelain. Those are highly effective, but again if you are really suffering from symptoms of Covid you should go to the hospital, and you should get medical care.   [0:35:07] Ashley James: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I found that I had pneumonia two years ago or three years ago. I found that taking—a Naturopath told me to do this, and I was doctor’s care—as an expectorant to break it up and get it out, a handful, a big handful of fresh time put in some hot water, steep it for 10 minutes, and drink it. It was so effective for me. It was really amazing. It’s was a good cough suppressant but also helped me move stuff. NAC as well to help move the mucus out. You’ve obviously heard of those.   [0:35:52] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Yes. Thank you for bringing it up. That’s great. Another one that’s amazing specifically for the lungs is Mullein extract, M-U-L-L-E-I-N. Absolutely amazing for smokers or people with mucus in the lungs or a lung congestion, it helps bring it up and break it up. Then one other one would be licorice root. Licorice root and viruses is very well known for not only destroying the virus, stopping replication, but also licorice supports the adrenals. The adrenals have a direct connection with the lungs. People that are the most susceptible to bronchitis, mucus production in lungs oftentimes have weaker adrenals. What I mean by that is they have less actual stress hormone production and they’re not able to respond as well. Everything we just mentioned there—that’s why you don’t have to use one specific thing, oftentimes. There are many that work for many different people, but the foundation is always the vitamin C, the vitamin D, the zinc on a daily basis. Two to five grams of vitamin C we’re recommending right now, up to 50 milligrams of zinc on a daily basis, about 5000 IU’s for adults 35 IU’s per pound of bodyweight for children. Of course, if you feel any symptoms you can go double on those as needed. The other ones we mentioned the Mullein and the different extracts are all great to use. Oregano oil, amazing to use as well, but I’m not having people use them unless they start to feel rundown or they’ve been exposed because it can get to the point where this is probably going to go on for 12 more weeks, and so we don’t need to use these for 12 weeks meaning the extracts. The Mullein extract, elderberry, oregano oil.   [0:37:39] Ashley James: For the next 12 weeks, what can we take or what can we do to create a healthy balanced immune system? You’ve already talked about decreasing stress. What other really effective scientifically-proven things that we can do? What kind of self-care we can do to just make sure that we’re doing everything we can to support our body so that if we had Covid-19 we would have a successful outcome or our body would completely mount a response and we’d be asymptomatic.   [0:38:12] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Absolutely. I’ll give you a quick rundown of what we’re doing in our practice and what I’m just teaching right now for the DESTRESS protocol specific to Covid-19. The first part of that destress is diet. If you haven’t already started an elimination diet, or eliminating inflammatory processed foods, or eliminating sugar, eliminating a lot of alcohol, which is an immunosuppressant, now is the time to do that. Meaning there’s never been a better time, so if you’re looking to kick-start that—especially with the spring coming around in the US—a great time to just go on a lower processed food diet. We do a spring detox every year. We’re modifying that slightly for people that are rundown so that they don’t have to do a couple days of fasting if their body’s not feeling strong enough. That’s because if you fast for too long, well, you become a little bit more stressed, that’s just natural. That kind of flows into the—and do stop me anywhere if you have questions—exercise part.   [0:39:15] Ashley James: Fasting, short-term fasting, like a three-day water-only fast. Doesn’t that boost the immune system?   [0:39:21] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Well, what happens is the body comes under greater stress, and it can actually start to suppress certain parts of the immune system while increasing what’s called autophagy. Autophagy, it’s happening all the time but it takes into a greater degree after about 18 hours— we’ve seen in the research. This is what allows your body’s immune cells to start to scavenge proteins and necrotic tissue to break it down, and that includes cancer cells to remove it from the body, so very, very powerful. However, fasting—and if you drop in blood sugar—actually increases a cortisol response. Whatever your body needs to break down liver glycogen, it does so by increasing cortisol. Because what happens is when you spike cortisol your body says, “Okay, we need a fast fuel source.” Contrary to popular belief that is not ketones or body fat, it’s actually sugar. Even if you’re in ketosis your body—well, it depends if you have any liver glycogen left or muscle glycogen, which you do because it’s stored, it could break down muscle tissue or liver glycogen for that. That’s why if you’re doing a longer fast we recommend you do be in a little bit more of a rest-based state. Hopefully, that helps.   [0:40:34] Ashley James: Yeah. Chill, Netflix, fast. Cuddle dog.   [0:40:39] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Yes. I still do recommend. If you don’t have a dog, adopt a dog right now if you’d like. Twelve to sixteen hours a day is a great amount to be fasting. We typically recommend—if you go to bed at 10:00, which a lot of people do. 10:00 PM in the health-based world, stop eating at 6:00. It’s three to four hours before bed. That means all the foods out of your stomach, now your body can concentrate on a deep rejuvenating sleep. Don’t start eating again until about an hour or two after waking, which a lot of times is around 8 AM for people. That’s a very simple 14-hour fast. You break your fast when you start to come under stress for the first part to your day. People can do longer, they can do shorter based on hypoglycemia, adrenal issues. They’re more of a restful morning. It really depends on the person, but 12-16 hours every day I still absolutely do recommend for fasting.   [0:41:32] Ashley James: If we did 19 hours then we would have gotten one hour of stimulated autophagy. Like you said, it starts to really ramp up at 18 hours. If we ended up doing the one meal a day or a feeding window of four hours, would that decrease our immune system? Would that increase stress, or would that be a really healthy thing for someone who’s already healthy? For someone who’s not, obviously, in a weakened state, like you said, hypoglycemic. Would now be a good time? If we’re slated at home, would now be a good time to play with lowering our feeding window to eight hours or four hours because it’s beneficial?   [0:42:13] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Different people have different philosophies. I do not subscribe to that philosophy. Although I’m on the latest science, and research, and functional medicine Naturopathic medicine, I really studied Ayurvedic medicine quite in-depth. That’s the oldest form of medicine, 5000-6000 years old. I really believe that unless people have a very low-stress day, an eight-hour feeding window can be more stressful on the body. It works more for younger people 25 to maybe 45, but not so much after that when the body trends more towards a catabolic state. We see in my practice a lot of women with issues, and I know we’re kind of getting off-topic, but I see a lot of women go into hypothyroid quite often when they’re following a keto-based diet or they’re following an eight-hour feeding window. It’s simply because if your body’s in a state of stress, getting the kids ready in the morning, or having to work on a work presentation at work, or fighting traffic, whatever it is your body’s naturally looking for food. Food and specifically carbohydrates are what is actually cutting the cortisol response. Fat and protein don’t do that. I recommend a light easy to digest breakfast. The largest meal somewhere around 11:00 to 1:00, 11:00 in the morning to 1:00 in the afternoon. Then a smaller dinner. That has always worked well in the society. I believe that you can fit that in a 10-hour to 12-hour window. It allows for both anabolism or the body’s ability to build itself up, and then catabolism the body’s ability to break down and digest whatever it needs. That seems to work best for most people, and then at the same time, we typically recommend a once a week 24-hour fast. We’re working in all things. To me, again, that would make more sense. You might go a day without eating, so from Sunday night to Monday night I fast. That means that I have dinner Sunday night and then the next time I eat is with my dinner Monday night. Then after that, I do breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and I fast for 14 hours every day. Some people in my practice, I only recommend 12. Some people very, very small percentage, they need a little snack before bed only in the short-term because they’re hypoglycemic and they’re dealing with adrenal-based issues. Then there are many people who do well with a 16-hour fast, but we break our fast around 10:00 AM, and we do still three meals a day. The reason is for one meal a day, how do you fit in nine servings of fruits and vegetables, which is what we know is the only proven anti-cancer based diet out there. We know that keto-based diets can help with tumors and brain tumors specifically. I’m not saying that there’s not a time and place for that, but I just don’t know how you eat nine cups of broccoli at a meal and get all of your protein requirements, which is about 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight, so about half your body weight, and then your healthy fats. I mean that’s a lot on the digestive system in terms of stress. At a minimum, two meals a day, but I still like three easier to digest meals, in my opinion.   [0:45:20] Ashley James: I like that you bring up the point about how do you get in the nine servings, the nine cups of fruits and vegetables a day when you’re only eating one meal. A lot of people—and even some listeners who are listening—they eat three meals a day plus three snacks and they’re still not getting in their nine cups of fruits and vegetables. The guidelines around eating for your immune system, you’ve mentioned cutting out sugar, cutting out junk, now is a great time to do an elimination diet. Can you paint a picture of what someone’s breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Give me an example, like what did you eat for the last 24 hours? What would be good on our plate right now?   [0:46:06] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I actually just outlined this for our community, so we’re combining our two diet plans or our detox diet plan with now the immunity protocol. What we do is pretty straightforward, and I can just give you a sample day. Waking up and doing one scoop of the Alkalizing Vitamin C. It’s very interesting because some of the drugs that are working right they believe they’re actually working. For example one of the anti-malaria drugs, it’s called—let me see if I can even find it here I think it’s called—hydroxychloroquine, I believe it’s called. They believe it’s working by bringing the pH of the tissues up a half to one point, which to me is very interesting because a virus can’t live in an alkaline-based solution. We know the blood maintains about a 7.356 pH, which is very standard because you can’t live above a 7.5 or 7.2. Our body does a great job of regulating that, but our tissues can actually change the body. That has to do with everything else but your blood. I love reading that because we know how to alkalize our own tissues and that’s through minerals. So good quality sea salt, and calcium, magnesium, potassium, greens. Eat more veggies. If you’re not someone that eats a lot of fruit right now, well, maybe still a cup of blueberries, which is one of those ACE inhibitors that we keep talking about. Dark chocolate, blueberries, prunes, flax, all of those are great. Anyway, we do the Alkalizing Vitamin C, which is buffered with all the minerals. Then at breakfast, we’re doing a smoothie with our Daily Nutritional Support because you just don’t want the vitamin C, the vitamin D, you want all your B vitamins. You want all your minerals, the detox factors. We do something called a Daily Fruit & Vegetable Blend, which is 22 organic fruits and veggies, mix as a powder, no sugar, and you can just put that in there. Then one or two cups of berries, and then mix in a healthy fat if you want, and it contains 15 grams of a vegan protein. You can make that as carbohydrate heavy or as light as you would like, but easy to digest. Make it into a smoothie bowl, make it into a smoothie. I don’t recommend chicken sausages and eggs and all that for breakfast. One of the things I don’t right now is a heavier breakfast, and one that someone might be doing on a carnivore diet or maybe even more of like a keto-based diet which is heavier on a fatty-based breakfast. Maybe it’s eggs, and sausage, or something like that. It’s just not something I can recommend, and the reason is it’s harder to digest, it takes a lot more energy from your body that early in the morning, and it’s also much more acidic. I know a lot of people don’t really play into the acid and alkaline, but the truth is that there are foods that are acidic and there are foods that are more alkaline. The foods that are more acidic, the way that you alkalize those foods back to a normal pH in the body is that you actually use minerals from your body and use reserves. Instead of using those I simply recommend saving those heavier proteins—if you choose to eat them—for something like a lunchtime meal.   [0:49:19] Ashley James: Does eating excess cheese, eggs, meat, does that affect the immune system? Does that lower it? With someone on a whole food plant-based diet see increase in a strong immune system? What’s your take on that based on the science?   [0:49:38] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I would say more to a plant-based diet is going to be more beneficial in terms of the immune system. The reason is that we know that if you increase your fruit & vegetables—especially a rainbow of colors—you’re going to increase your vitamins minerals, but you get the plant-based phytonutrients as well. All of those come from the different colors of each vegetable.  We get the blues and purples from things like blueberries, we get the reds and oranges—which are quite high in vitamin A and vitamin C—from peppers, and from oranges, and strawberries. So you can go down the line. One other thing that we know too that we get from certain vegetables—namely the cruciferous ones such as broccoli, and bok choy, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts—is we get the sulfur-based amino acids. That allows us to actually ramp up our body’s natural detoxification, which allows the liver to better process any die-off in the body at all. Whether it be a virus, or hormones, or plastics, toxin from the environment. I definitely recommend getting at least two to three cups of your cruciferous vegetables per day, and that would be amazing as well. Now typically, cruciferous vegetables should be cooked. It’s easier to break down the plant cellulose and you still get all of the great benefits from the actual plant-based food themselves.   [0:50:59] Ashley James: Wonderful. You mentioned what they’re speculating, the reason why these anti-malaria drugs are helping. Back a few weeks ago—when it was first coming out of China and South Korea because they were using different malaria drugs in China than in South Korea, but they were seeing similar results.  One speculation was that the anti-malaria drug increases the uptake of zinc into the cell, which would then show, like you said, for those who are just borderline zinc deficient or just about to be zinc deficient, if that drug would force more zinc into the cell, then they would also exhibit symptoms of zinc deficiency. To have zinc be forced into the cell, that zinc then disrupts the virus from hijacking the cell’s RNA production, the virus cannot then reproduce. Have you heard of this theory?   [0:52:04] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I’ve seen a few theories, and I don’t know which ones are correct. These are all small studies. For example, hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine are drugs from the US, but the study is actually being done with something called the azithromycin in France. They show that the combination of these two drugs was remarkable in the recovery of people especially in 50% of the time in this small study in France.  Again, it was only 36 people and it is a small percentage. We have the Japanese antiviral drug, Avigan I believe it’s called, and it seems to prevent the virus from replicating, but just like you alluded to, we don’t know why. We just know that it seems to be working. To me, that’s okay. That’s a good start. Remdesivir is another one that is another antiviral drug. Then we have Interferon Alpha 2B from Cuba and another one seems to be working. The last one—I’m trying to think—specifically for HIV. I believe it’s called Kletra or K-L-E-T-R-A. This also seems to be working with the replication and preventing that RNA-based replication. I’m optimistic about one or multiple of these working, which is why I think in another three to four weeks—even if the spread continues—we will at least be able to help those people most at risk and cut down the mortality rate.   [0:53:42] Ashley James: I wish we could throw as much money to funding natural studies as the pharmacy companies are so excited to throw money at finding a drug-based solution. Because like Dr. Klinghardt says—he’s an MD who’s been on my show who’s been practicing for over forty years. His favorite thing to do is to find whatever drug someone needs and then go find the natural version that the drug company tried to copy. He says nature always works better than synthetic drugs because synthetic drugs are the man-made copy of nature. In his 40 years of being a doctor having great success he says very rarely he will need an actual drug, although he’s open to it. He’s open to the best tool possible, but his favorite thing to do is to find the natural cure—the cure that lives in nature because it seems to always work better than a drug with obviously less side effects. There’s a theory going around that we should all drink tonic water because it contains the natural molecules that they used to mimic the malaria drug. Have you heard about this?   [0:55:03] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I have not heard about that. Just to comment on what the previous MD you said is, I completely agree. Also, 50% of all pharmaceutical drugs are based on a plant. It’s a derivative, an extract that they can patent. For example, one of the best-known ones is a statin drug being an extract of red yeast rice. We know what kills a virus: zinc, l-lysine, monolaurin, colloidal silver.  For me, I’m a board-certified doctor of Naturopathy. I don’t use any drugs in my practice nor can I like. That’s not what I went to school for, but what I want to share is this, in life-saving based conditions the drug is more powerful. When someone’s life is on the line, for example, a staph infection, or bilateral pneumonia, please don’t take any chances. This coming from someone who only uses vitamins, herbs, and the best science of that. I just want to share that with people. Don’t try to prove yourself right in a situation where you’re on a ventilator and you refuse medication. That’s all. I’m just saying that. I agree. If you get a regular virus I’m using coconut oil, and I’m using my zinc and monolaurin. One thing we haven’t mentioned is fire cider. Fire cider is an amazing thing to be using once or twice a day now, which is apple cider vinegar, garlic, onion, horseradish, ginger. You can make your own or they sell it.  This is a really great way to not only kill anything in the back of your throat, which is how this Covid virus seems to be entering. There’s so much to talk about. This is one that if we had tonsils the people with tonsils like children typically aren’t showing symptoms because the tonsils get to sample the virus and the body then creates the right antibody for the right antigen, and then we’re able to kill it at a faster rate. I don’t have tonsils. Mine got taken out when I was 10 years old. Can I kill it without adenoids and tonsils? Yes, but my body takes a little bit longer. I used the natural-based solutions, and hopefully, never get the major symptoms.   [0:57:17] Ashley James: Thank you for saying that for all the parents listening. Please, please, please if your doctor says, “All right, time to take out the adenoids tonsils and put in some earplugs.” Please, find a Naturopathic pediatrician because often times it’s a food allergy that’s causing the chronic infections in your children. I had chronic, chronic, chronic ear, nose, and throat infections until I was six years old. My mom took me to a Naturopath, Dr. D’Adamo, the man who created the Eat Right for Your Blood Type Diet in Toronto. He took my blood, looked at my eyes, ears, and nose, and he said, “You are allergic to milk, yeast, wheat, and sugar. Stay away from them.” Overnight my life changed. My mom cut out those foods. Within 24 hours my chronic sore throat, my chronic infections, my chronic feeling lethargic, and horrible, and headaches, and everything they all went away within 24 hours of being taken off of dairy and sugar. My problem was dairy, and so many children are being given the foods that are causing their chronic infections. Then the MDs go, “Well, it’s time to take out these body parts that you’re having problems with.” Meanwhile, these body parts 10-20 years down the road could save your life. That just drives me crazy that the tonsils are that important. Like you said, they sample the pathogen and help our body mount an immune response much quicker. It’s amazing.   [0:58:45] Dr. Stephen Cabral: 100%. Yeah, 100%. The very thing is most children’s tonsils—even if enlarged—go back to a normal size by seven years old. That’s what they don’t give you statistics wise as well. The thing is this, just like you said if, even if you don’t have a doctor in your neighborhood that knows a lot of these specific things, cut out dairy and gluten. The third one is oftentimes eggs. You can run a food sensitivity test right at home. My practice is about 80% a little bit more women. A lot of times husbands just don’t believe it like, they just don’t. It’s just the way that it is. Guys have such a hard time understanding how what we eat and what we do actually affects our health. I’m a guy so I think I could say that. Just run an at-home food sensitivity test. Run a test and say, “Do I have a food sensitivity to dairy, gluten, eggs? It could be anything.” If not, eliminate cow’s milk, goat’s milk. Sheep’s milk doesn’t seem to be as much of an issue. I’d still eliminate them to be safe and eliminate gluten. I know it’s more challenging, but you don’t do it forever. At least do it for six weeks and then you can start to slowly introduce back in and see if the symptoms come back. If they do, well, then there you go. You have your proof right there.   [1:00:13] Ashley James: Exactly. Don’t slowly add them in. Do 30 days without and then have an entire day with ice cream, and yogurt, and cheese. Do a whole day with dairy, and if you have zero problems after that then there you go. Or gluten, right? No barley, wheat, rye, or oats for 30 days, and then have a whole day with bagels, and bread, and pasta. Most people that do that, by lunchtime they don’t ever want to eat barley, wheat, rye, and oats again. Their body is yelling at them. You mentioned monolaurin, I got mine right here. I’d love for you to talk about this because it’s actually something that’s never been talked about on the show. My dear friend Naomi—who I started the Learn True Health Home Kitchen membership with, believe it or not—is more into holistic health than I am. I think I’m a pretty crunchy granola very, very big fan of natural medicine. She’s even more into it than I am. She gave me this. She gave me this big thing of monolaurin. Because she beat Epstein-Barr virus. I mean this one of the things she uses, but she beat something that is considered something you can’t beat, and she beat it. Tell us about monolaurin. How much to take and how it works?   [1:01:33] Dr. Stephen Cabral: If we’re looking at where it comes from naturally we could say it’s coming from coconut oil, and it’s coming from something specific within coconut oil, which is called lauric acid. Monolaurin is actually far more effective, and I would say a lot more natural that the body can use. Monolaurin, we’re talking about in terms of viruses but it’s actually, in general, it kills anything any negative pathogen that it touches. It kills any different microbes in the body, viruses, bacteria, yeast, fungus, mold. When you look at someone with Epstein-Barr virus, which I also had as well many years ago, you’re looking at a virus. Epstein-Barr virus is something like a herpes-based virus that replicates inside the body. It can go dormant, it can wake back up, and it does that when you’re most stressed, and you’re most rundown. What monolaurin does is it helps to kill the specific virus, stop it from replicating. Its effect works right away, once it gets in the bloodstream. It typically gets in the bloodstream within about three hours. However, it takes 72 hours—like most things—to work. That’s because what happens is you are actually seeing the effect as it spreads through the body, and it’s also why there can sometimes be some worsening of symptoms. You can actually have die-off from taking too much monolaurin too fast, just like you can have too much die-off from doing a detox, or from using too much oregano oil. The reason is that we call that a Herxheimer reaction. We first put it into science when we were using antibiotics—meaning conventional medicine was used in antibiotics and they coined it a Herxheimer reaction after the person who basically coined the term—for killing too much bacteria too quickly. You get brain fog, and you get fatigued, and you might get flu-like symptoms in the joints. If you’re using monolaurin for the first time, I would start slowly. You can go pretty high dose in this meaning you can use 3000 milligrams a day, which is what we’re recommending for l-lysine when someone has herpes, or Epstein-Barr virus, or virus. We do divided doses 1000 milligrams three times a day, it’s easier for people to take. Typically, in general, vitamin C and all these things 500 to 1000 milligrams is the max. You take that three to six times a day. Same with monolaurin. I’m typically recommending a 500-milligram dosage three times a day. We do something called the Candida bacterial optimizing program. Monolaurin’s in month three, it’s very strong. What we do is we spread that. We actually do that in month three when a lot of the die-off has already taken place, so it’s much gentler. If you just want to dive into it, then okay. Start with 500 milligrams the first day, 1000 milligrams the second day. Still, feeling okay? 1500 milligrams, which is 3 500 milligram dosages right off the bat. Now again, if you’re doing this prophylactically to not get the virus I don’t think that you need to. You can use it if you have a virus, but to use it when you don’t have a virus, I don’t believe that it’s needed. Just because there’s so much you could do.   [1:05:01] Ashley James: Okay. Someone who maybe is high risk, could they take it for the next 12 weeks or someone who is an older population, or someone who is maybe a worker in the health industry and is potentially being exposed to pathogens all the time, would they take it all the time preventively?   [1:05:23] Dr. Stephen Cabral: There’s a couple of ways to look at this. It can’t replace your foundation, so use a good daily activated multi or the Daily Nutritional Support. Use your omega-3s every day whether from a vegan source or an omega-3 fish oil source that’s tested for impurities, use a daily probiotic. Ideally, use some type of Daily Fruits & Vegetables blend, some type of greens. That covers all of your vitamins, and your minerals, and your anti-inflammatories because we know inflammation is a big part of all this, so that’s your foundation. After that vitamin C, vitamin D, and zinc. No doubt about it, that’s what I’d be using right now. If your finances still allow for more, now we can look into specific viral-base things that you can use on a daily basis. Monolaurin absolutely could be one of those, but not for long-term use because there is some potential—not proven yet—correlation between higher dose monolaurin and killing off some of the gut bacteria because it is antibacterial as well.   [1:06:29] Ashley James: Right. So we need to be careful. We definitely need our gut bacteria. What relationship does a healthy gut biome have in keeping our immune system healthy?   [1:06:43] Dr. Stephen Cabral: We’ve heard the term 80% of the immune system is in and around your 26 feet of intestine or so, which is the truth, but it goes much beyond that. The reason is that if someone has an imbalanced microbiome, and they have an overgrowth of Candida, yeast, or an overgrowth of bacteria that we call SIBO—small intestinal bacterial overgrowth—what happens is your immune system is always on. It’s always trying to keep the body in balance. If you have SIBO, or yeast, or Candida overgrowth, you most likely have some type of intestinal permeability as well, which means you’re allowing proteins, bacteria, yeast, waste products to move through the intestines where they were never meant to move through the intestines—they were moved to meant to move to the bowels—and they get into the bloodstream. Now you have elevated levels of IgG—these are just immune white blood cells, IgA responds, IgE responds, IgM responds, so the immune system is always on. If it’s always on, it wears down your body. Over time, your immune system says, “Listen, we can’t do this on a daily basis,” and it starts to slow. That’s why your gut is so important when it comes to your overall immune health. It’s also why many people never recover from their Hashimoto’s, autoimmune, Epstein-Barr virus, migraines until they fix their gut. Because your gut is what regulates a lot of the inflammation that we’re talking about and your overall immune system.   [1:08:18] Ashley James: It’s like fighting a war on all fronts. If we’re constantly fighting a war on all fronts, then our resources dwindle and we can’t do it. You can’t fight a war on all fronts, and our immune system is our army. If we send out our army over there, and over there, and over there, and over there, and are constantly fighting all fronts, then how can we defend home our home territory? We can’t. To look at it it’s just like you want to keep your military, your immune system, keeping your nation, your body where you live to be healthy instead of having to fight on all fronts. It comes down to something as simple as what you put in your mouth can be building you up or tearing you down. Is it worth the five seconds of it, “Oh, but the pizza tastes good, but the ice cream tastes good, but the beer tastes good?” Is it really worth five seconds of it tastes good for the days, or hours, or weeks of the effect of we’ve put stressors on our body, we’ve torn our body down, we’re not building our body up, we’re not providing the nutrients our body needs. Is it really worth it? My aunt used to always say, “A moment on the lips, forever on the hips,” but it’s more like a moment on the lips and weeks, and weeks of our body being out of balance. So bring it back into balance, and we can actually find delicious ways to make healthy food. That’s why I created the Learn True Health Home Kitchen membership. To teach people how they can make delicious food that also nutrifies the body. Being dairy-free in our household, and also sugar-free, and having a four-year-old—who’s almost five—he asks for ice cream. I’m not going to say, “No, you can’t have ice cream.” We get into the kitchen and we make whole food ice cream, and he loves it. I throw some spinach in there too, some frozen blueberries, some spinach, some coconut milk, and blend it all up either in the Vitamix or I put it in an ice cream maker. It is so delicious. Sometimes I’ll add stevia or I’ll add dates, and he loves it. He loves helping make it. He knows he’s getting nutrients into him. It tastes even better than what you can get in the store because it’s not a chemical crapstorm—if you look at the ingredients in ice cream. There are ways to utilize food and utilize the kitchen to support the body. I love that you brought that into perspective. Thank you. The listeners—in the Learn True Health Facebook group—asked a bunch of questions. I want to make sure we get to them. Of course, you’ve covered a few just by sharing what you’ve shared today. The first one from Zachary, “Have him address the nonsense of not taking elderberry,” which you just did, “and vitamin D. Apparently there’s nonsense going around that we shouldn’t take vitamin D. On another note, explain how this virus is not changing the microbiology of how viruses attack the cell.” Have you heard anything about that? The virus is not changing the microbiology of how the viruses attack the cell? I guess he’s talking about the elderberry and vitamin D.   [1:11:39] Dr. Stephen Cabral: No, I have not. They’re not necessarily saying that Covid-19 is a complicated virus necessarily to get ahold of and really figure out. What seems to be the issue is its affinity for lung tissue and why. I have not seen any answers to that, that’s why we’ll continue to do weekly updates. I have a daily podcast, my main virus page is stephencabral.com/virus. I would invite people to continue to check up on what the latest is there, but I have not heard that so I’m not able to speak on it.   [1:12:24] Ashley James: Great, Kelly asks, and I feel that you’ve covered this to a certain extent, “Can we build immunity against Covid-19? I have read some reports of people getting reinfected, but a vaccine is constantly being hyped. It doesn’t make sense that both could be true.”   [1:12:40] Dr. Stephen Cabral: In my opinion, if it is the same exact strain, your body—if infected with this virus—will create the proper antibodies to fight off these particular antigens. If that’s the case, you could certainly get it again in your body, but you will most likely be asymptomatic. The virus can enter your body, it enters children’s bodies. People are saying children are immune to it. Children are not immune to Covid-19, they just don’t show any symptoms, for the most part. They still get the virus but their bodies are super healthy for the most part. I shouldn’t say super healthy. They’re super balanced, and they just haven’t lived enough life. They haven’t missed enough sleepless nights, and studied, and been up all night for term papers. They haven’t done all that, and they have all their reserves, for the most part. If it’s my opinion that if it’s the same exact strain next year, then our bodies will be absolutely fine and immune to it. Again, it will still affect the same people, 65-75 plus that have an imbalanced immune system that can’t mount a normal inflammation and immune-based response. I don’t see why if we are all getting this that we would need that vaccination next year. I don’t understand that part to it. Here’s the thing with the flu, they’re guessing at what the strain is going to be. There are 100 plus strains of the flu. The US flu vaccination is often found to be about 30% effective, and this is based on the Center for Disease Control—their specific stats. They base it on what’s already happened in other parts of the world for this particular flu season. Sometimes they’re right and sometimes they’re wrong, but they have to guess at the strain. They use about two to three different strains maximum.   [1:14:31] Ashley James: I’ve seen some studies coming out that show that getting the flu vaccination increases susceptibility to Covid-19. Have you heard about this?   [1:14:45] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I have read on that I’m just not speaking on it because, again, it’s one of those things that I don’t know if there’s any validity to it.   [1:14:52] Ashley James: Got it.   [1:14:55] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Could be true.   [1:14:57] Ashley James: We should do a whole episode on vaccines because we put a lot of stock into, and we’ve obviously been marketed to that they’re the most safe and effective way. If you look at it, if we look at history, if we don’t study our history we’re doomed to repeat it, and we’re definitely doomed to be duped time and time and time again because media is wonderful at controlling how we think. If we look back on when they implemented a marketing campaign around breastfeeding versus formula, they said that formula is so much superior than breast milk, and that we should switch to feeding formula to babies because our scientists made it. Therefore, we’re smarter than God, or we’re smarter than nature, and we should stop doing all breast milk. Now, of course, we know that that wasn’t true. Although, I am so grateful that formula exists because there are times when mothers can’t breastfeed. In those times, the baby should always get fed no matter what. Breast milk is so much more superior to anything we could ever make in a lab. The immune system is so much more intelligent than anything we could ever make in a lab. We, of course, want to use we use allopathic medicine when it’s a good tool. We want to use natural medicine when it’s a good tool. We want to know when each tool is necessary, and unfortunately, it’s very unlikely we’ll ever be told the truth because money’s involved. If companies like pharmaceutical companies can make a ton of money, they’re going to push their agenda and lobby and everything. We have to step back at the 30,000-foot view, talk to Naturopaths—like you—and look at the science and the research. I’ve interviewed so many people in vaccines. This idea that flu shot, for example, harms the innate arm of the immune system and leaves us more susceptible the next year to catching the flu and ends up weakening people. It creates a weakening like a hole in our defense system. For some people that could be fatal. There’s no perfect solution, but it’s interesting that several people have brought up this concept to me or have shown me these studies where they’re seeing—and these are one of the studies was within the Pentagon—that people who get the flu shot are the more susceptible to like upper respiratory infections, and could potentially be more susceptible to the coronavirus should they get it. There’s another concern—because I’m here in Seattle—that’s where we’re testing in the United States. Currently, they’re testing the first run of the vaccine, and the concern is that it’s actually going to create more of a spread because it’s a live virus. Vaccines, you can have shedding. Is this true? Should we be concerned that if someone gets a vaccine—like a coronavirus vaccine—that they could then potentially infect others?   [1:18:14] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Without a doubt, to me, I don’t believe in experimenting on people. I think that that is very, very dangerous with unproven things. Keep in mind we already have evidence of this. When SARS came about a couple of years ago, they rushed to create a very quick vaccine. They discontinued it because they found that many people who got the vaccine—not all—ended up with something called Guillain-Barré syndrome. This is a damage to the liver. You literally permanently damage the liver, and that was from directly tied to the vaccination. I don’t believe in experimenting with human life. I also am very worried about companies that are not liable. If I do anything, if anybody else does anything well you’re liable, but these companies that produce these things can come out with them very quickly, and they don’t have to have a lot of necessary science behind them because there’s no liability and that’s what was passed. I also believe that unless you are part of that special population that’s more immune-compromised, getting the virus creates your own natural immunity. I don’t believe people like—we’re talking about relapses. Relapses maybe, but maybe you never fully recovered from the virus. That’s more likely, meaning that okay, you slowed the replication so your symptoms started to slow, but you didn’t kill the virus. Then you became under greater stress, or you stopped your specific protocol—whatever you were doing—and the virus then started to replicate again. That’s very common. That happens in the herpes virus, and Epstein-Barr virus, and with mononucleosis all the time. There are relapses all the time. It’s still the same one. Then in terms of getting on a yearly basis, you very well may, but the symptoms would be so much less. Don’t let anybody fool you. People who get the flu vaccine still get the flu. I know many people who got the flu vaccine and still got the flu. Their rebuttal is, “Well, it was not as severe as what it would have been.” How do you know that? I’m just really like, “In what a parallel universe do you live that you know it wouldn’t be as strong?” I don’t get that. Viruses have always been around. I’m not saying that this not a scary thing and that this is not serious, it is a serious situation. I don’t know that the tools we currently have with conventional medicine hold our answers. That’s all that I’m saying. [1:20:42] Ashley James: Yeah, I’m right there with you. Mandy says, “Is a global shutdown necessary or is it an overreaction? Is this virus worthy of global economic collapse?”   [1:20:53] Dr. Stephen Cabral: If you were to ask someone who is 77.4-81 years old, you’re asking them is the economy worth the trade-off for their life? That’s a hard question to answer, right? What is more valuable? It’s an impossible choice, and it’s an impossible question to answer. My parents are in their mid-60s so they’re over 65. I’ll want them to stay healthy and safe, but the only way for them to stay healthy and safe is to take this very seriously because they are the most at risk. They can’t see their grandkids right now because their grandkids could be the carriers right now and not even know it. Those are all challenging things, but at the same time, like you just said, okay so now 100 million people now become homeless. That creates mental health—I don’t know. That’s a really hard question for me to answer. I worry about both sides of the equation. What I’m seeing right now is that this is the same demographic as those who are at risk for the flu. So creating a global shutdown not only is unrealistic, but not possible. Again, you’re going to be waiting at the supermarket. When you are at that grocery food store you’re exposed to other people. You are now bringing that back to your family. They’re being exposed to other people. A virus, unfortunately, has to run its course. Our job is to slow it as much as we can, but it has to run its course.   [1:22:33] Ashley James: Right, right. This is a very interesting global lesson in, I don’t know, in ethics? We’re really looking at the ecology of a situation because on one hand, people might become homeless—whole families. It’s really disruptive. On the other hand, people are dying. We need to mount the Goldilocks response, but we don’t know what that is yet. I just saw this last night, the latest the CDC has brought out is that we have in the United States begun to lessen the curve. That we’re on the other side of the curve. We don’t know if there’s going to be another spike because people all leave their homes again because they see this information, or now, more states are hunkering down and giving people mandatory house arrest, self-quarantine. The good news is though that the CDC is seeing that we are lessening the curve already. The measures that we’ve taken already have begun to slow it down, but like you said, the virus needs to run its course. We need enough ventilators, we need to know what medications work, and we also need to support the terrain of the body and teach people. You and I were talking about this right before we hit record that the shelves are empty in grocery stores. All the Oreos are gone, all the Twinkies are gone, but the fruits and vegetables—you and I stocked up on our—I got a fridge full of fruits and vegetables because I always do. I’ve got a big freezer full of frozen fruits and vegetables as well. I’ve potatoes, and rice, and beans. These are foods that easily keep. We’re always eating fruits, and vegetables, and potatoes, rice, beans. These foods are easy to get because people are stocking up on junk food and alcohol and not on the healthy foods that are going to boost their immune system. It’s kind of maddening but it’s because they just don’t know. They just don’t know that what the food, every single molecule they put into their mouth could actually be supporting their body to the point where their body could mount a healthy response, and it would increase their survival rate. Hopefully, those who are listening can share this episode with those they love. The Oreos, alcohol, and pizza, and whatever, all these processed foods, and sugar could potentially give them a worse outcome instead of a better outcome if they were to be exposed to the virus. That they need to take that just as seriously as they are taking the vaccine and the different medications that are being proposed to work.   [1:25:36] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Absolutely, 100%.   [1:25:38] Ashley James: Jessica says, and we did talk about this a little bit, she says, “Exactly how is it spread,” you talked about that, “and how could we prevent it from spreading,” and you talked about that, “just breathing the same air? So if we’re all just in the same grocery store just breathing that air is that enough or do you have to cough or sneeze out the droplets?” So could someone be just breathing out these viruses and they float around for 6 feet or 12 feet? She also wants to know about the hype around the masks. Does any kind of mask work? Could we sew our own? A lot of people are sewing their own masks or sewing masks for healthcare providers. Does that work or does it have to be some special kind of filter?   [1:26:22] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Yes, and that’s one of the biggest things is that most masks are proven not to work for this virus and many other viruses. That’s because it’s not the proper material used, and it’s not tight enough fitting. I see people on planes and walking around and the whole side of the mask is open. I just don’t understand that. If you’re breathing in, you’re sucking air into your mouth and nose that’s not going to work. An N95 mask is what you’re looking for, and those will be tight-fitting because they know how to make those masks specifically. Now those are on backorder pretty much everywhere, but you want to make sure you get a good quality if you choose to use one N95 mask. In terms of breathing in the air, the reason they’re saying six feet is that, just like you said, they’re giving it buffer zone, but someone could cough or sneeze and it goes who knows, 15 feet. Twelve is an arbitrary number, but if some people sneeze, yeah, they could go straight across the room. There’s no doubt about it.   [1:27:25] Ashley James: The gold Olympics of sneezers.   [1:27:26] Dr. Stephen Cabral: You should down and into your elbow.   [1:27:28] Ashley James: If we sneeze down into our elbow we’re preventing the spread?   [1:27:31] Dr. Stephen Cabral: It could be a long jump.   [1:27:34] Ashley James: The long jump of sneezes.   [1:27:37] Dr. Stephen Cabral: There will be fluid with it, so it’s going to be spread airborne through that way. A normal breath should not spread the virus, however, that’s why they’re giving the buffer zone of six feet because three feet is typically where a breath might move out to, but not six feet, and that will drop, it will fall. It won’t fall immediately, but whatever comes out of the mouth will eventually fall. That’s the best that I can give right now, but again, if you don’t have a healthy body you shouldn’t be out right now because you just don’t know. That’s just a chance. Then if you do go out, well, you can wear gloves and you can wear an N95 mask.   [1:28:21] Ashley James: A lot of places can receive groceries, and delivery of food, a delivery of groceries. Let’s say someone’s at risk let’s. Say they’re 77 years old or maybe they’re a population is at risk like they’re on immune suppressants because they have some kind of illness, autoimmune, or they’ve had cancer, or they have asthma, and they know they’re at risk, and they want to stay home, so they’re getting home deliveries. If the person that collected the food and put it in the bag coughed, and now it’s spread on to that, and then get the home delivery, can they just wash the fruits and vegetables, and wash everything and that’ll be enough to not get it? I know this again hypothetical. I’m just wondering how? Do we need to like Lysol the bag as it comes in the house? What preventive measures? If we’re quarantined at home and we’re receiving shipments of food into the home, what are some common-sense things to do?   [1:29:26] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Well, whoever’s delivering it can just leave it right at your door, so that’s the first. If you are 65-plus, hopefully, you have someone that could potentially shop for you or you can have it shipped to you. So have them leave it outside the house so you don’t need to come into contact with them. If anything can be frozen, freeze it. That’s because it will kill a virus typically within two to three days, so keep in your freezer for two to three days.  It’s the same thing with fish and parasites, you just freeze it, it will kill the parasites if there are parasites in it and so on and so forth. It’s funny but if you get moths in your closet people will freeze their clothes for two to three days and it kills any of a lot of eggs basically from it. Freezing does a really good job at that. Anything that you’re going to put in your fridge you could absolutely use—on the packaging—some hot soap and water or any type of wipe that’s been shown to kill a virus. There are many of those wipes. You can use a more natural one with essential oils, or you can use more of the Lysol wipes and that would be fine. Whatever you feel comfortable. Pretty much everything is packaged, so that will that protect you for the most part. I wouldn’t be too worried about that.   [1:30:37] Ashley James: Very good. Cool, cool. Those masks that people are making—the homemade masks that are not N95 masks, it would help people who have—maybe they’re asymptomatic and they have it and if they cough or they’ll actually have it and they have a fever and they’re coughing. If they wear the mask then they’re preventing—if they’re not going to cough in their elbow they can wear a mask and it’s actually just going to prevent the particles from entering the air and infecting other people. People who have it could wear a mask to help others, but it wouldn’t help themselves.   [1:31:08] Dr. Stephen Cabral: You’re saying a homemade mask and one N95 mask?   [1:31:13] Ashley James: Homemade mask instead of an N95 or all the masks that are not N95. Basically, the homemade ones, the flimsy ones it’s not going to help prevent it for that person, but if the person has it they could wear the mask to prevent them from spreading it because it’s blocking the particles from spreading?   [1:31:35] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Only the majority but the problem is that the filter on the mask is not small enough to allow the particles to be completely trapped. That’s why the N95 is a smaller filter. It’s almost like when you look at certain air filters for your home, some do a great job up to 95%, some do a great job up to 99%. The N95, the 95 I believe stands for 95% for the filtration rate.  Yes, any mask is better than no mask. There’s no doubt about it. A mask is better than no masks, but that mask will not prevent the stoppage or getting of the actual virus itself in some cases. Now in many, okay, it blocked it, yes, good. But no, I can’t say that that would actually be effective completely.   [1:32:23] Ashley James: Okay, so it could lower the chance slightly but not 100%?   [1:32:29] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I would agree with that, yes.   [1:32:31] Ashley James: Okay. Stephen says, and I love this question, “Can colloidal nano silver help aid in making the body an unsuitable host for the coronavirus?”   [1:32:40] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I wouldn’t say that it’s going to make it unsuitable because we’ve talked many times about the terrain. The terrain is the body’s ability to have a balanced pH, to have a balanced natural killer cells in the body. What colloidal silver will do is it will kill a virus or other things like that inside of the body. It’s not that it makes it unsuitable because I don’t even think that we’re necessarily talking about preventing you from getting the coronavirus. What we’re talking about is for you not having the major symptoms and being able to fight it off, and colloidal silver could be used when you do get it. So I just want to clarify that as well. To our knowledge, there’s nothing that we know that we can prevent it, but we know how to boost the immune system.   [1:33:21] Ashley James: Boost the immune system to the point where you’re asymptomatic or you have very little symptoms. It’s kind of what’s to be expected. It’s spreading around, we’re all going to mount an immune response, and so we just got to get our bodies as healthy as possible. Follow Dr. Cabral’s protocol for getting your body as healthy as possible. I love your protocol. It’s so well-balanced, and it’s so effective.  We just got to get our bodies as healthy as possible, get the terrain as healthy as possible, so when we do get exposed to Covid-19 or any other virus because let’s be honest, there are many, many, many pathogens out there that could be potentially fatal if our body is not healthy enough to fight it. We walk around with our heads in the sand stressing ourselves out to the max, staying up too late, eating junk food, drinking alcohol. We live like the masses, and our bodies—as a nation, as many nations in general, not specifically us listeners because I think my listeners are more health-conscious—but the masses have not created a terrain of the body to support the body’s ability to fight healthfully and to thrive. The problem with that is we were looking at these big statistics of the population. If the whole population ate nine cups of fruits and vegetables a day every day and didn’t eat junk food, my goodness would these numbers ever be different in terms of survival rate. It’s not a death sentence. These pathogens aren’t death sentences, but if you don’t take care of your body, then yes it is. I like coming back to the analogy of a car because men, they wouldn’t put the wrong oil or the wrong fuel in their car knowingly. It’s the same thing. It’s like put the right fuel in your body. You wouldn’t put a 50:1 or what’s that mixture? Five to one or what’s the mixture where you put in your car? You wouldn’t put like an oil-gas mix in your car, but you would in your jet ski or some lawnmowers. You just wouldn’t put the wrong fuel in the vehicle. Yet the majority of people out there are putting the wrong fuel in their bodies.  You take a car who hasn’t had an oil change in a very, very, very long time, has had the wrong fluids put in, wrong gas. Take a Ferrari and put in just regular gas, which is going to throw the timing off, put more stress on the engine, and then you’re not giving it an oil change after 20,000 miles, and then you decide to drive you know 100 miles an hour through the mountains, and it breaks, of course, it does. That’s what we’re doing is we’re not taking care of the body, and then we put it under a stressor. Those who are under high stress—like the children in South Korea are under high stress because socially, they are taught to get very little sleep and study a great deal because there’s only a handful of universities there—the top universities. They are all taught that you should only sleep four hours a day and study the rest of the day so that you can get into the right university. So socially, from a very young age, children are taught to be incredibly stressed out. Then we’re seeing the young adults having certain symptoms of the Covid-19, whereas others in other countries are not because of the terrain of the body. If you’re under a high amount of stress for a long period of time—we’re not getting enough sleep—that is enough to throw the body out of balance. It all comes back to getting that 30,000-foot view, taking care of the terrain of the body, so that when you are hit with any pathogen that you will overcome. Of course, we want to run to allopathic medicine when the symptoms become to the point where we need it because that’s where they thrive, that’s where they shine. Drug-based MD medicine is great at emergency medicine. That’s where they’re really good, but they really suck at helping people get the body healthy, and in chronic health conditions, which is what you’ve talked about before. Amy says, “What’s the best precautionary measures to boost the immune system,” which you’ve already talked about, “It’d be nice to understand ways that don’t cost a lot of money, the basics.” For those who are on a budget, what’s the absolute basic thing that people could start to do today that gives the biggest bang for the buck?   [1:38:13] Dr. Stephen Cabral: If I could only do two I would do something we call the Daily Nutritional Support and vitamin D3 because that’s maybe $50 for the month, and it would give you all of your B vitamins, it would give you some vitamin C on a daily basis, 15 grams of protein because you need those amino acids to help boost the immune system as well, and then you get your vitamin D for overall immunity. There’s already zinc in there, there’s already—like I said your—electrolytes and minerals.  That’s what I would do Daily Nutritional Support, and I would do liquid vitamin D3 so that you could dose it for your kids and you could also dose it for yourself. That’s the least expensive. If I could add one more on to that I would do then the extra vitamin C, and then I would do the extra zinc, and then after that, I would do the extra omega-3s, again, if you’re on a budget.   [1:39:05] Ashley James: Got it, and switch over to healthy foods, and cut out sugar, and processed crap, and alcohol.   [1:39:11] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Well, that comes first. Food always comes first before supplements. I don’t want anybody to think they can supplement their way out of it. Whole food diet comes first and the supplements are just like they say, they are a safeguard to anything that you may have missed in your healthy diet—which just letting you know from 20 years of practice and doing people’s food on a daily basis—we’re all short a little bit somewhere. The supplements just help to fill in the gaps, and then times like this they boost the immune system when we need it the most.  As you were saying, the problem in the car analogy makes perfect sense. The problem is your car won’t run without the proper fuel right. I guess the good and bad thing is our bodies will run for 15, 20, 40 years before they start to break down with the wrong food. So let’s start eating the right food now so that we are healthy. We’re a healthy 75-year-old. We don’t want the medication.   [1:40:07] Ashley James: It’s really sad that the majority of adult Americans, that over 70% of the population in America is on at least one prescription medication. That is not health. Being on a medication means that you don’t have perfect health, for the most part. Like type 1 diabetes, obviously, there are certain medications that are life-saving. High blood pressure medications, that’s an indication that something’s out of balance nutritionally or out of balance in some way—stress, nutrition, the terrain of the body—and the bodies were mounting a response.  Then the MDs come in and suppress that response instead of looking at the root cause. In so many cases, people are on multiple medications and then they need medications to manage the side effects of those medications. It’s poisoning the body, it’s causing stress on the liver. Medications and this is very common knowledge you can google it, but most medications actually have us burn through our nutrients faster. So there are nutrient deficiencies that arise from taking certain medications diving us deeper into nutrient deficiency and creating more and more stressors on the body, taking us further and further away from a balanced healthy terrain, and taking us further, further away from the body’s ability to mount a healthy and balanced response when the immune system needs to. That’s why I love Naturopathic medicine, and that’s why I love the work that you do is that for listeners that are on medication, and they’ve been told by their MDs they’ll be on it for the rest of our life like metformin, “Oh, you have to be on it for the rest of your life.” This is such baloney. Those doctors should be held accountable because the information is out there that we can heal our bodies with food and nutrition that we can bring our bodies back into balance, and it’s science-based.  I don’t want to say, everyone just throw their meds out, don’t do that. Go work with Dr. Cabral, work with Naturopathic doctors, work with functional medicine practitioners and doctors, and get your body so healthy it no longer needs medication. That’s the goal. That’s the goal to be so healthy. In our 70s, 80s, 90s be a Centurion, be so healthy that we don’t need medication, and it’s possible. MDs will tell you it’s not possible because that’s their training, because their training has been backed by pharmaceutical companies for the last 100 years, but don’t get me started. Sherry says, “Awesome comments so far. I’ve also heard that it’s killed off by heat,” The Covid-19 is killed by heat, “and that it starts in the nasal passages. That’s where our body is coolest. There’s been some talk of using heat from a blow dryer,” can you imagine standing there with a blow dryer and breathing it into your nose? That’d be really annoying. “Or getting in a sauna. Is there anything accurate about that about sweating in a sauna every day to help kill the virus or breathing in heat through a hairdryer?”   [1:43:15] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I can’t recommend the heat from a hairdryer for so many different reasons. We could get into EMFs, we could get into just burning off—you’re basically burning out your mucus in your nasal passages. I don’t recommend that, but it is true. That is why I’m very optimistic about this as well, and that’s why I’m okay with the social distancing, and the quarantining for right now because we need to catch up to the point where we can get more ventilators, that we can get more testing to people earlier, that we can do all those things. Then hopefully, in the future, we’re more prepared.  I’m very optimistic either way because most viruses—we don’t know about Covid-19 yet because we just haven’t, but it is a coronavirus. We have experience with coronavirus. Coronavirus has been around a while. This is a different strain of a coronavirus. Now, from the previous knowledge base, we can say viruses don’t do well in this summer heat, which is why the flu is typically a winter-based virus.  I’m very optimistic by June-July this will slow down regardless because the virus will have more difficulty living outside the body. Going back to the sauna, you can replicate summertime now in a sauna—will heat up your core temperature. Heating up your core temperature is akin to a fever, which kills viruses and also speeds up the flow of white blood cells. I absolutely do recommend a sauna.   [1:44:41] Ashley James: I love that. I have a Sunlighten Sauna and I just love it. For those who don’t have enough space in their home, they have one that’s an ultra-low EMF, non-toxic that you can lie in. It’s like a cocoon, and it heats you up. Then you can just wipe it off, pack it away, and put it in the closet when you’re not using it. Even people in apartments can use it. You would say one sauna session a day, heat up your core temperature may be between 30 minutes and 60 minutes—depending on your hydration level—would be good as a preventive, or would be good to do when you have the virus or both?   [1:45:24] Dr. Stephen Cabral: The research on sauna is incredible for using it five times a week at 19 minutes per day. I did a podcast on that.   [1:45:30] Ashley James: Really? That’s great.   [1:45:32] Dr. Stephen Cabral: It’s incredible. Again, going back to medication, there’s no medication that comes close to this, but if there was it would be a trillion-dollar drug. If you use a sauna for 19 minutes a day, now this is a Finnish sauna so an infrared sauna is not going to get as high of heat so you’ll double the time. Anyway, so when you look at that, 19 minutes a day decreased all-cause mortality by just about 42%. It decreased all cardiovascular risk of death, which is the number one killer by over 60%.  Again, if you could decrease all-cause mortality—any cause of death—by over 40%, it’d be a trillion-dollar drug. You can get that with a sauna and using it for 19 minutes, five days a week. It was a huge study. I have a podcast just called 19 minutes. You can just type that in at stephencabral.com/podcast, and I’m telling you right now, you will want to invest in a sauna after seeing the research on saunas. It’s incredible.   [1:46:31] Ashley James: Wow. I love that. That’s new to me. I always love looking at all the research around saunas, but that is so cool. I’m going to go listen to that episode. That sounds great. We should just do that anyway. So for infrared, you could just do 40 minutes where if you stay hydrated throughout the day the 40 minutes five days a week is totally doable, but if you get a headache after, or if you get a headache the next morning you did not hydrate enough, or you need to back off and not do 40 minutes, and then you work your way up to it.  It’s just a matter of keeping well-hydrated, also drinking some coconut water if you feel like your electrolytes are off. If you drink some coconut water and a big glass of water and your headache immediately goes away, then you know that that was maybe an electrolyte or a dehydration. That’s my thing is dialing that in because I like to see how long I can sweat in the sauna, but not more than an hour. I’ll get in there, and I’ll really know I did not hydrate enough or balance it out enough if I wake up the next morning with a headache. I’ve had to dial that in.   [1:47:41] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Yes.   [1:47:42] Ashley James: Sorry, did you have any more to say about that?   [1:47:45] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I was just going to say for people starting out with the sauna, ten minutes, twenty minutes is great. Just see, do you get lightheaded? Does your heart rate start to increase? Just because you might not be used to the heat. We’re both saying the same thing, we don’t want you to start right away at forty minutes or whatever you might need, and it’s also based on temperature.  An infrared sauna you actually get more benefit by staying in longer because it’s not just about the sweating, it’s actually the absorption of the far infrared rays. So 120 degrees, 250 degrees maximum for an infrared sauna, and then a Finnish sauna is about 160-180 degrees. That’s why you can go in for less time because of the higher heat. So the lower the heat a little bit more time, and then the higher the heatless time. Hopefully, that helps.   [1:48:33] Ashley James: Right. I was just in a Finnish sauna and it was 180 degrees, and I was so uncomfortable. We couldn’t even last five minutes in there. I was just so uncomfortable. The air was really hot, the seats were hot. My body was kind of screaming the whole time, whereas when I’m in an infrared, oh, man. It’s easy. The air is cool and easy to breathe like 120 or mine gets to 132. My body is just sweating bullets within 30 minutes, but I am comfortable the entire time. It’s very enjoyable, and it’s not stressful.  I commend those who can sit in the Finnish sauna for 19 minutes because I couldn’t do five, but in my Sunlighten Sauna I can do 30-40 minutes and feel very, very, very comfortable. Those who are afraid of heat or couldn’t handle Finnish saunas—just know that infrared saunas. Of course, you got to get a brand like I love Sunlighten. You got to get a brand that’s low EMF and non-toxic. There are so many cheaper saunas out there that are cheap for a reason, so you have to really, really be careful—buyer beware about that. Rosemary says, “I heard A1 receptors in the lungs are what the virus adheres to. What enhances these receptors and what decreases the attachment?”   [1:49:53] Dr. Stephen Cabral: That’s a great question. I actually believe this, although that’s not proven yet as well. Its most doctors believe this now so I do agree with it, and if we’re looking at natural foods what decreases the adherence would be—and people usually like this recommendation—dark chocolate, like real dark chocolate, not milk chocolate. I typically say 75% plus, prunes, green vegetable juice, flaxseed, omega-3s, and blueberries have all been shown to be highly beneficial.   [1:50:32] Ashley James: You know what, they ran out of frozen blueberries at my Costco. I was like, “Really? What health thing did I not hear? I’m going to go have to run to Trader Joe’s because I love their ultra-dark chocolate. I got a little trick for you, get the super ultra like—I don’t know—100% percent. This probably says 95% but one of those crazy, crazy, crazy dark chocolates that do not taste good. You get a square of it, and then you put a date on it. If you want to get really decadent, you put a little bit of nut butter on it, and then you eat that, and it’s like a truffle. It tastes amazing.   [1:51:12] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Sounds amazing.   [1:51:13] Ashley James: You could cut the dates in half too, you could just do a little thing, but yes, it’s very delicious and very nutritious. Dark chocolate, prunes, green juice, blueberries, flax, omegas, those are all things that we could start to incorporate right away. Could we eat greens or does it have to be juiced?   [1:51:32] Dr. Stephen Cabral: No, you could absolutely eat your greens and you should. It’s just when you do the green juice you just get more of the nutrients. You just wouldn’t be able to eat five pounds probably of vegetables at that meal.   [1:51:43] Ashley James: I will take you up on that challenge. I get one to two pounds of vegetables a day or more. After about one pound of vegetables at a meal, I am full. Yes, you’re right. We should probably start juicing those greens. You can get it to Costco. My Costco always has a giant bag for $4.95, a giant bag of organic super greens. Grab a bunch of those. What if we grabbed a bunch, and juiced it, and froze the juice? Would it still be effective or does it need to be fresh in order to preserve the enzymes and the nutrients that help us with this?   [1:52:28] Dr. Stephen Cabral: You’ll still receive the majority of the nutrients, but you won’t receive the enzyme. If possible, I love the juice to be pressed and then consumed right away—at least within 30 minutes—but you’re still getting massive benefit either way. I can’t complain if someone’s saving it, and freezing it, and using it later.   [1:52:50] Ashley James: Great, thank you. Leslie asked a question I feel like you’ve answered, “What does the future of this virus look like? Will it ever go away or is this going to be around for another season?” It’s going to be a seasonal thing. You’ve said that this in the works, this is just one of the many viruses that we’re going to be exposed to every year, but we’re going to, hopefully, our bodies will—of course, we got to take care of ourselves—be able to mount an in immune response, and then it will eventually no longer be a problem. Is there anything you’d like to say to Leslie about her question?   [1:53:21] Dr. Stephen Cabral: My answer would be that we do seem to see these viruses come and go every year to two years. Again, there has been less sleep for me over the past couple of weeks just really looking at the research to bring people the truth of what is really happening. We’ve seen the swine flu, we’ve seen SARS, we’ve seen Zika, we’ve seen all of these different things, and they typically have one season to them, and then they move on. So I’m not sure, well I’m not saying we won’t see it again, and I’m not saying that we won’t see another virus next year or the year after that.  Severe acute respiratory syndrome, which is SARS, MERS, swine flu, all of these have come and gone. I’m not as worried about seeing this again next year as they would a different coronavirus, a different strain, because remember, this is a coronavirus. It’s the Covid-19 coronavirus. Maybe there’ll be a different strain next year, and that would be more likely than seeing the same exact one, in my opinion.   [1:54:37] Ashley James: Okay. SARS was way back in the early 2000s, and we haven’t heard of any kind of outbreak of it since, so that makes sense. The media is really good at hyping anything to be afraid of, and we really haven’t heard of any reoccurrence. Just using that as an example, I like your idea, but viruses can mutate, they can always change. Like you said, we’re going to see more viruses in the future.  Hopefully, we’re going to learn as a globe. We’re going to learn as a whole planet is going to learn how to create a healthier like more Goldilocks approach to this. This is going to be very interesting. In the last few months and the next few months we’re going to be studying the numbers for years to come and using and figuring out a global response that is more balanced. Hopefully, we’ll be able to create a better ecology for everyone. Tracy asks a great question about vitamin C, “Which kind should we take, sodium ascorbate, ascorbic acid, plant-based vitamin C? The information is so confusing out there.” She says she has some sodium ascorbate. What about you hear buffered? Oh, buffered vitamin C, and of course there’s acerola cherry powder. There are all kinds of different forms: powder, pill. What kind is the best to take or if someone has access to basically Walmart, this is what they have. Should they just take any vitamin C because any vitamin C is better than no vitamin C, or is there some vitamin Cs in the market that should not be taken? What’s the best?   [1:56:29] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I formulate for Equilibrium Nutrition, and I just obviously—I want full disclosure there—I create all of the different formulas for the company. What I’ll say is it’s a functional medicine company, and the reason I mention that is a functional medicine company is like a thorn, a pure encapsulations in Equilibrium Nutrition. They do things differently.  They typically will not use genetically modified corn and other products like that. If you go to a Walmart, or Costco, or BJ’s, any of those places they’re looking at cost, and so they use the lowest quality ingredients to sell it at the lowest quality price. If you’re buying vitamin C from those places, you’re most likely—I don’t know that for sure—but you very well may likely be getting a GMO corn that I’m not an advocate of using. However, viruses do respond to an ascorbic acid, which is a less expensive form of vitamin C. If you’re using higher dosages I do recommend a buffered form. On a daily basis, I recommend a product called Full Spectrum Vitamin C, and it’s part functional medicine, which is the ascorbic acid non-GMO form. Then it also is part acerola berry, hibiscus, and other natural forms of vitamin C that I love from a food base. So I get the best of both worlds.  Then for higher dosages, you can be very well served with a buffered vitamin C, and it’s buffered with either the sodium—that sodium ascorbate is sodium mixed with essential ascorbic acid, it’s bound to that—or calcium, magnesium, and potassium, which is what we do that are great alkaline-based minerals. Of course, if you want to add a little sodium, you could absolutely add a little pinch of sea salt, and then you have all of your electrolytes right there. Because you don’t want to do a lot of straight ascorbic acid at one time, and the reason is that it could affect your actual stomach lining as well.   [1:58:27] Ashley James: Very interesting. Right, we got to keep conscious of supporting the digestion because if we throw the digestion off then we’re throwing everything off. That’s the center of our health, very cool. I love the formulas that you’ve come out with. We’ve talked about that in our past interviews: episode 271 and 301, which I recommend listeners go back and listen to because Dr. Cabral talks about his overall formula for creating a healthy terrain of the body in detail in those interviews. Jeff says, “Would be interested to know if,” he believes this virus actually originated from bat soup or some other nonsensical animal theory. “Could it possibly be a manmade virus cultured in a lab in China or some sinister objective? Wonder why China tried to suppress any knowledge of this horrific catastrophe from leaking out to the wider world?” Can we get into the conspiracies? What do you know? Let’s just stick with what the facts that you do know.   [1:59:36] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Conspiracy theories?   [1:59:37] Ashley James: Well, hey. I’ve got the biggest tinfoil hat of everyone out there, I’m sure, but I want to stick to what is known, what’s factual, what you know is factual at this point.   [1:59:50] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I’m not saying that the conspiracy theory is not true, I’m not discounting that at all. We just don’t know that to be true. We do know that the virus—or a virus very similar to this one—originated in the same city in China at a lab there. We know that that is at least possible, whether it was purposely or by a mistake released, again, that’s speculation. We don’t know.  Could it come from bat soup, people are saying that but as we know right now it can’t be transferred from a bat or there are a few other animals as well—or nonhumans that carry the virus—and we don’t know how that made the jump. No one has any idea how it made the jump to humans. Whether it was purposely released, non-purposely released—by accidents, someone was exposed in the lab and then walked out of the lab like not on purpose, that’s a possibility—or that it did come from a nonhuman species. I have absolutely no idea. There are all sorts of theories, and I’ve read some of those theories. They very well may be true. I just don’t know that part to it.   [2:01:01] Ashley James: Right, yeah. Well, we’re hearing a lot out there. So we just need to stick with what we do know and also focusing on the conspiracy theories that there is an agenda, like a depopulation agenda, whatever, there are lots of them out there. Those will create stress. The fact is we will never know the truth. If it was man-made, if it was released on purpose, if it was released by accident, if this absolutely just 100% natural and just happened because the virus has happened. Focusing on the idea that there’s a sinister motive behind it creates stress, which lowers our immune response.  I like being awake and aware, I want everyone to be awake and aware, but at the same time, the more we focus on that there’s some evil out there that wants to kill us, the more we’re just stimulating the sympathetic nervous system response of fight or flight, the more we’re decreasing our immune response. We’re shooting ourselves in the foot. What we need to do is yes, continue to be awake and aware and detach from that.  If you are a person that believes in God connect with God. God is love. This is the time to hunker down and get more spiritual, get more connected to your Creator. Get surrounded—within your home while social distancing—by those you love, and your animals, and do things that decrease your stress because that is known right now to help your body.  If you believe that there’s this evil force out there that wants to depopulate us, well, they’re going to win simply by you fearing them because fear—living in constant fear is going to decrease your immune system and potentially leave you susceptible. It’s a catch-22. We have to focus on what we can control. What is within our control? What’s within your control is your breath, what you put in your mouth, who you surround yourself with that’s within your control. Knowing and following our wonderful doctor’s advice today on what we can do: supplements, and food, and lifestyle changes will make a huge difference in our outcomes. Also in our mental and emotional health. Thank you for going over this question because it’s sort of the elephant in the room for many of us.  The thing is that whatever the fact is we’ll never know the truth, but whatever it is—because there’s no way to prove or disprove. Really, without a shadow of a doubt that this is one way or the other because it can always be manipulated, but holding on to a constant fear of something will harm you in the now. That is the truth.  We’ve got to detach ourselves from that fear and attach ourselves to love as much as possible and vibrate on that level because that really is great for the immune system. We’ve got a few more questions, I just want to blast through them really quick. Do some blood types have a greater immunity to the virus? I’ve heard this to be true.   [2:04:28] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I’ve read that research as well saying that type A blood type is the most susceptible, and type O seems to be—again, small sample size, small studies. It’s possible, each blood type has their own specific proteins. Possible but I don’t want people to focus on that because every blood type—with a strong healthy immune system—will most likely be totally fine regardless of your blood type.   [2:04:57] Ashley James: Great. Kathy says, “If I do contract the virus, at what point are we not contagious?”   [2:05:06] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Fourteen days with no symptoms is what the medical establishment is saying.   [2:05:11] Ashley James: So if I get it today, let’s say I’m getting a fever, and a headache—cancel, cancel, cancel—and I move through. Three days later I have burning lungs, I have lung problems, and then a few days later I’m in the clear. Maybe I’ve been sick for 5-6 days. I have to wait 14 more days before I’m not contagious?   [2:05:36] Dr. Stephen Cabral: That’s the current recommendation. However, you are contagious before you even had symptoms. That’s the hard even if you do get symptoms, you’re still contagious before that. Is it 14 days from when you first started to feel symptoms or 14 days afterward? I can’t give you medical advice on this podcast for sure, what I can tell you is that you will not—I mean, again, I’m speculating myself—but you’re not going to be contagious 14 days after that. It’s very precautionary, but again, not a bad precaution, not a bad precaution.   [2:06:12] Ashley James: Okay. Daphne says, “I’d love to know more about the effect of painkillers and fever reducers on glutathione levels, and how that affects the immune system and brain health.” I love her question. We should do an entire episode on that alone, but let’s stick with just the Covid-19. If someone starts getting a fever, they’ve been tested, and they have Covid-19, or they’re suspicious of it, and they start pumping the ibuprofen because they want to lower their fever, how is that negatively affecting their overall outcome?   [2:06:45] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Yeah, it does actually. This was one I was saying was speculation in the beginning but possible. Ibuprofen is now being contraindicated in China, in France, and possibly South Korea as well. I’m going with that. I’m agreeing with that because of its possible immunosuppression making you less likely to fight off the Covid virus. That I would not recommend ibuprofen for a fever.  The problem is you’re typically then going to switch over to acetaminophen, which would be more like a Tylenol. When you take Tylenol it does deplete the body of glutathione, and glutathione is the main detoxifier—at least while in phase 2 liver detox. If you had to choose one or the other, you would still probably choose acetaminophen, but keep in mind that a fever—as long as it does not get too high—is the body’s way of killing a virus as well as speeding up the flow of white blood cells to the infection.   [2:07:47] Ashley James: Okay. So if we can, don’t use any fever reducers or painkillers—if we can. I know there’s also natural—I mean homeopathy has been proven really effective, and I just did an interview on this. Because there are homeopaths who are treating many people with Covid-19, and they’re moving through the symptoms much faster because of the homeopathy. There’s homeopathy for fevers, but it doesn’t suppress the fever. It helps the body regulate the fever in a healthy way. That’s good to know that there are those options out there.  For a fever as we’re watching it as an adult, what’s an unsafe fever versus a safe fever? When should we go, “Maybe I should suppress this,” or is there never a time when we should think to suppress this.   [2:08:43] Dr. Stephen Cabral: A lot of people will say never suppress a fever, however, I’m a little bit more conservative in my approach. I have a 5 and 7-year-old daughter. By not suppressing a fever you do run the risk of seizures, and that can affect the brain. I’m not willing to do that. Again, I can’t tell you what to do for you, but what I can tell you with my daughters is we don’t let it get above 102.5 because we don’t want it to go above 103. Once we see it get to that level we’re going to lower the fever, and of course, we try to do that naturally. We do that through Epsom salt baths, you can use some homeopathic-based treatments as well, a lot of hydration. For an adult, we don’t want it to get above 105. Once we start to see it get to 103.5-104, then as an adult—at least for myself and my wife—that is when we would start to lower that fever. Luckily, as a healthy human, hopefully, it doesn’t get that high, but of course, that’s not a bad thing. If your body shows symptoms of a fever say, “Oh, okay good. My body is fighting whatever it is.” The problem is, your body can’t keep fighting and fighting and it gets to be too far and then you, of course, do have to lower that fever—at least in my opinion.   [2:09:59] Ashley James: Seattle Children’s Hospital—anyone could google this: fever myths Seattle Children’s Hospital. I love them. They do a ton of fantastic work. They actually do a lot of more holistic research, so I’m very happy with the work that they do. They say fever—I believe it’s 108 or 109 as long as the child is responsive, can talk, or making eye contact, and not limp, and lethargic, and drooling, and not making eye contact, but a very high fever in a child can be healthy and safe.  Then just recently, when I did my interview with Cilla Whatcott, who’s a Ph.D. in homeopathy, she says that very interesting—and maybe you can comment on this—that the seizures that happen in children are due to a calcium deficiency. The sudden onset of a fever in a child, there’s not enough of the minerals for the muscles and the nerves to function correctly, and that causes the seizure. So we want to support the child, give them some calcium. Have you heard of that?   [2:11:14] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I have not. Magnesium and calcium are used by the muscles to allow them to contract and relax, and the nervous system is made up of fats, and certain minerals as well, and B6. The issue is you always weigh the pros and the cons, and so that’s what I do. Everything we do is from a natural-based perspective, but we’re talking about acute-based circumstances.  How do you know if your child is potentially calcium deficient in the muscles or the nervous system as well? Keep in mind, the brain is also heating up, so this is also affecting the brain. I don’t know if anyone’s ever seen someone with a 105-degree fever. They are absolutely close to hallucinating, and they’re dehydrated. People have different risk tolerances, and I’m not willing to roll the dice. That’s me. Maybe 108-109, I’ve never seen that before, and I couldn’t recommend that.   [2:12:21] Ashley James: Maybe in the hospital, while they’re being hydrated and monitored, who knows, but I like your more conservative approach of after 105, start to take some precautions.  Cindy, she has several questions. You’ve already answered some of them, so we’ll just get to what I really like about her question. She lists pretty much everything you’ve listed: the garlic, vitamin D. She says astragalus, bee propolis, zinc, red algae, oregano, licorice root, vitamin C, probiotics. If we start to show symptoms, should we stop taking Echinacea, spirulina, and elderberry due to the possibility of a cytokine storm, which is what you already said no for the elderberry? Are any of these other supplements—all these supplements you mentioned—good? That we could just take all the time, in general? If we have the Covid-19, are there any that we just 100% should stop taking—beyond what you’ve already said in this interview.   [2:13:27] Dr. Stephen Cabral: What I recommended for the elderberry, I looked at the studies and the studies actually looked at four or five different herbs. They looked at five different specific cytokines in the immune system—certain interleukins—and it found that elderberry raised all five, Echinacea raised two out of the five, and then there was just one raised in the other herbs.  You could look at that as saying, “Okay, these raised the inflammatory response in the body on a Th1 basis, and that caused a cytokine storm.” It did and that’s exactly what it was supposed to do—I keep trying to tell people. I say that in a nice way like, “The herb is doing exactly what the herb’s supposed to do. It’s supposed to stimulate the immune response. However, there is too much at stake right now.”  If you end up with the fever and the coughing, I do believe that because we just don’t know that use the elderberry, use the Echinacea—which are proven immune boosters, and elderberry was proven to kill viruses—use them. Then if the symptoms start to get higher, I would stop. Only because we just don’t know. This is the first time this has come around. I’m also saying we have so many other things that we can use. Someone mentioned colloidal silver, we have monolaurin, we have l-lysine, we have the fire cider, we have other things that we know plus all of our vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc, melatonin that now are proven to be working. I’d say there’s no one herb that we have to use, use it now. If those symptoms really start to get aggravated, at least take the precaution and I would say come off. Hopefully, that helps.   [2:15:18] Ashley James: I love it. For those that have never taken melatonin before, don’t take it during the day. This is a nighttime supplement. I could just see some people falling—well, if you’re under house quarantine, sure, sleep all day. If you take too much melatonin you’ll get lucid dreams and nightmares. Dosing is different for everyone. What would you say people should start with? One milligram, three milligrams?   [2:15:40] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Most people will do fine with anywhere between one and three milligrams per night. That’s a very small dose. It’s a fraction of what your body makes on a daily basis. Two and a half to five milligrams is what a lot of people in our practice are using right now to really lower the cortisol at night and to produce that melatonin, which is a natural anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, and hormone regulator.  Then if you were to get the virus and get run down, current more medical-based recommendations are 10-20 milligrams. I’ve certainly never gone that high before except when trying to reacclimate after long-distance travel for time zones, and that could be for short-term use. We’re not talking about long-term use. Again, right now, anywhere between one and five milligrams completely fine thirty minutes before bed. We like liquid melatonin because it’s in and out of your system a little quicker, and you don’t get groggy the next morning.   [2:16:39] Ashley James: Yes, me too. I really enjoy taking melatonin when I need it. This is a good time to take it, lower cortisol, help our bodies get enough sleep. That’s a good thing.  Cindy also asks about—she said she’s heard the immune system’s first reaction when we’re exposed to it is called the prime, and it sets the tone for the immune system response moving forward. She wants to know—obviously if we’re exposed we don’t know we’re exposed, that’s the thing. We don’t know when we’re experiencing the prime or the first. Like you said, when it touches our tonsils and our body goes, “Ah, virus. Okay, quick. Mount a response.” It sets the tone for the immune system moving forward is what she says. Is there any advice around that or we just really should just follow everything you said in this interview today?   [2:17:28] Dr. Stephen Cabral: She’s correct. That’s why typically your immune cells ramp up over 72 hours. So you’re exposed to a bacteria or virus, your body recognizes it—we’ll say it primes—it starts to create the proper immune response—a certain type of white blood cell natural killer cell—and then it begins to destroy that bacteria or virus. Oftentimes, if we don’t have to mount that larger response, well, we never feel any specific symptoms, but it’s working inside of our body. Maybe we just feel a little bit more rundown than usual, or we have a little headache.  We don’t know but that’s taking place. It’s also why antibiotics—oftentimes when taken on day four or five of our cold—only shorten the duration of a cold by about 24 hours. That’s because our body was creating the same immune response. So it’s interesting looking forward for most people like do you really need the antibiotic, that’s a question. Of course, don’t use antibiotics during a virus because antibiotics for antibacterial bacteria and virus is a virus, which is different than bacteria. They’re not going to help with your virus unless, of course, you’re using one of these newer drug combinations, which is the azithromycin and the hydroxychloroquine. Again, you’re in really bad shape at that point. Again, I’m telling most people, you are most likely—if you are healthy—going to be fine. That’s good news. Let’s take care of our people that are immunocompromised, and that are elderly, and they need us for their sake to stay away for right now, but do their shopping for them, and get them all their supplies, and FaceTime them, and Skype them so that they know that they’re not alone, even though they do have to spend this time away from those people that might be carriers but asymptomatic.   [2:19:19] Ashley James: Very good. Last question, Sarah asks something, I really like this one. “If you are a carrier,” so like you said, 80% of the people that experience that they’re asymptomatic, and they have the virus, the body mounts the response, everything’s good. Especially all the wonderful listeners who take care of the terrain of their body and have a healthy balanced immune system and they mount an immune response, but they have the virus inside them. So they could potentially spread it to other people. At what point does it clear from you or do you always have it? Does it lay dormant in your body forever like a lot of viruses do? A lot of viruses, your body is constantly keeping them at bay. Does it ever leave your body or your body figures out how to—so are you always going to spread it? How does this work?   [2:20:13] Dr. Stephen Cabral: No, that should not be the case. There will be a period of time that your body has the virus active, and while it’s active you are contagious. When it is inactive—whether it’s dormant or whether we just kill it off like we do the flu. So if I got the flu in let’s say December, and I accidentally coughed on you, in July you wouldn’t get the flu.  We’re hoping that this type of virus—once gone, and incubated, and destroyed by our own body, or whatever we have—is no longer contagious. Whereas a particular virus-like a herpes virus—when active—could be passed on to someone else. I don’t believe—but again I don’t know—that the Covid virus will be contagious after the particular 14-day period of it being active in your body and you being contagious.   [2:21:15] Ashley James: But the virus always lives in your body like many viruses? They just live dormant in your body or does it get cleared out?   [2:21:26] Dr. Stephen Cabral: This particular one or like a flu most likely gets cleared out, and what we keep are the particular immune cells that recognize that in the past that then live on. When we do come into contact with it—typically they don’t last forever, but we know they last somewhere between five years, ten years or so—we’re able to fight it off again. I don’t believe that this will live on, but again I don’t know because this is not my expertise.  Does the virus live on here? It shouldn’t, but other viruses like Epstein-Barr virus, or a strain of herpes-based virus they do. They do live on in the body, they just become dormant because our immune system is strong enough to keep them dormant and it’s balanced enough. This is different though. This is not a herpes based virus. This is a—what seems like it may be—seasonal for this season just like last season’s flu strain was last season’s flu strain. Same with SARS, and avian or bird flu. There have been these before, and I believe that it’s just going to die off—that’s my optimism speaking as well—and that’ll be it.   [2:22:43] Ashley James: Excellent. So really very optimistic. We have to take it seriously. If we can we should. Obviously, avoid contact with those who are most susceptible. If we can, do social distancing and isolate yourself in your home. There are so many fun things. When I heard that we, potentially, were going to be told to stay in our homes, I actually got excited because I’m like, “Oh my gosh. All the things I’ve been putting off.”  We’re going to clear out that closet, we’re going to do the Marie Kondo thing. We started doing it, but now we’re going to finish the whole house, and we’ve got spring cleaning to do because it’s springtime now. I’ve got a huge garden in the backyard I’ve got to start working on. I just started thinking about all the things that we kind of put off every weekend because we’re just busy going out, going, going, going, running, running, running around. All the wonderful cooking I’m going to do.  So something I learned from Tony Robbins years ago that really helped me get over a huge negative hump in my life is asking yourself—when it comes to very bad situations, very difficult, and some situations that don’t seem like there’s any hope, this when you ask this question—what’s good about this? If you’re, “Okay, I don’t have money for rent. I have to stay at home, and there’s no work.” Just all these and that’s all you’re focusing on is all the negatives and the threat, threat, threat, and your body’s perceiving these threats. Ask yourself—in a very honest way, not a sarcastic way, but a very honest way—what is good about this? You keep asking, and you keep trying to answer that question. It’s a thought exercise until your brain can get out of the fight or flight, and your brain actually starts to solve the problem. Maybe you figure out that you can do Uber Eats to make money. There are ways that we can solve every problem. They can’t even make a computer as smart as our brains. Our brains are amazing, but we’ve got to grab hold of the wheel and be the one driving the bus, and ask yourself, “What’s good about this?”  Instead of focusing on because I could have totally gone in the direction of, “This is the worst thing possible. What am I going to do? I’m going to be stuck in a house with a four-year-old. What do you mean we can’t leave the house? We’re going to be under martial law.” All the negatives. I can go down that road and stress my body out, or I can ask myself over, and over, and over again, “What is good about this? What’s good about this?” I ended up with a really long list of wonderful things that made me excited about this. Of course, I’m not excited about martial law, of course, I’m not excited about the economy going into a tailspin and people losing their jobs, of course, I’m not excited about people being sick, but we can only control what we can control. When we can focus on what we can control, it does decrease stress. That helps our body, and it helps our immune system.  So focus on what we can control, eat healthy, get enough sleep, do things every day that brings you joy, move your body in a way that brings you joy. You can go out in nature walks. You’re not going to get the virus in the middle of the freaking woods. So get out, get out. Get some fresh air, get some sunlight. I don’t know if you’ve heard this but there are even talks that sunlight kills the virus. Have you heard of this?   [2:26:10] Dr. Stephen Cabral: I have not, but I don’t discount that at all. One thing Ayurveda used to do is something called sunbathing, and you would get the natural infrared rays from the sun, you would get the UV rays—which we know kills bacteria on the body and potentially inside—and the sun creates vitamin D, but it also creates what’s called sulphuration. That increases the amount of sulfur in the body, which helps with detoxification.  So remember good food, clean water, fresh air, the sun, not too much beats that. I mean, really. That’s why I’m telling people prep with good food now because this could last another 6-12 weeks, and they are quarantining city by city. Please do prep with real food. We have fresh food for three to four weeks, and then we have our frozen food, and we have our rice and beans, and olive oil that we can make a meal of forever, and then we have our supplements.  If you have that and soap, don’t worry about the toilet paper as much, get soap. Get those other things, and you’ll be okay. You will be. It’s not going to be fun, I’m not saying that. For kids who are cooped up, it’s not great for parents, kids, for the economy, but we will be okay. If at least we can get the basic survival things.   [2:27:24] Ashley James: Yes, excellent. Wonderful. Know that it can be delivered to you. Amazon is still delivering. If we’re under home quarantine, they’re not going to cut us off from food supply. They’re going to cut us off from supply. Even in China, they have a system that they worked out because everyone was mandatory in their homes. They had a system where you would just report online how many people you have in your home, and then they would deliver, or have some way to get to you that amount of food per week. So they developed a system.  We’ve got lots of systems in place to make sure that everyone’s taken care of. You know what, God forbid, if you didn’t have food for a few days you can survive on water. We can fast. My husband just finished a 17-day water-only fast. Totally fine. Very sick people, like you said, should not jump into fasting for long periods of time, but if you’re in generally good health, we can live for a few days. We can skip a few meals, we’re going to be fine. We don’t want to do massive hoarding. We want to support our friends and family. We can also grow quick greens. There are certain foods. There’s one guy I love in Australia, he just made a video. He’s Mark from Self Sufficient Me. You can look it up on YouTube. He just made a video of things to plant right now that grow quickly. So sprouts, you can sprout food. I went to Cash & Carry and bought, for $25, a giant 50-pound bag of lentils, and you can sprout lentils. I take one cup of lentils and it makes 8 cups of nutrient-rich, vitamin C goes through the roof, 700% vitamin C goes up when you sprout lentils, and also has amazing amino acids. So it’s a great protein source, a great vitamin source, a great live enzyme source, and you do it in your kitchen. You can be anywhere. It doesn’t matter the weather, you can do it in your kitchen. So sprouting is a great thing to do. You can grow microgreens that grow really fast. You can grow spinach, and lettuce, and kale, some crops that grow faster. Something that comes to shoot quickly like radishes, and peas. So there are things that we can do to be self-sufficient. I love all the advice you gave today. Thank you so much for coming on the show, and for giving us everything that we can do to stay healthy. We talked a little bit about colloidal silver. I love colloidal silver nasal spray. There are no negative side effects of doing that. Could we use colloidal silver nasal spray as a preventive if we do go out grocery shopping? Because it coats the nasal passages and that would kind of help destroy the virus. Is that something that you’re doing or that you recommend?   [2:30:15] Dr. Stephen Cabral: First and foremost, I want to let people know that I am not worrying about the virus. I am worried about it from the standpoint that I want to help as many other people as possible, but if I get it, I am confident in my body’s ability, in my ability to use proper nutrition, fasting, and nutritional supplements to be able to fight it off. I want people to know that first and foremost because stress and lack of sleep are going to cause me to be immunocompromised and cause far more damage—I believe—than me getting this particular virus. Again, I don’t want to get it. I’m not saying that at all. The second is that I personally very much recommend colloidal silver nasal spray, but I also like a product by NutriBiotic called Nasal Spray, and it contains citricidal, which is a grapefruit seed extract. What you would do is you would actually spray it into the nasal passages, two squirts in each nostril before you go out, and then two squirts after you go out. You could also gargle with a little bit of fire cider, which of course will burn a little bit when you come back. What that does is it will kill anything that’s still on those surfaces.   [2:31:27] Ashley James: Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much. You’re such a wealth of knowledge. Please, listeners, check out Dr. Cabral’s website, and his podcast. Of course, all the links to everything that Dr. Cabral does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. It’s been such a pleasure to have you on for a third time. I definitely recommend listeners go back, check out to 271 and 301 as well for great information.  Normally, I end the podcast by asking the guests to share anything that’s been left unsaid. I really don’t feel like anything’s been left unsaid. You’ve been such a wonderful guest today. Thank you so much for everything that you do, and I really appreciate that you’ve helped ground us. Really important, as important as our food, is decreasing stress and getting out of fear, and then using all the precautions that you’ve mentioned today, so that’s wonderful. You’re welcome back any time on the show, anytime you want to continue to teach, and bring great grounded science-based holistic information to us. We just would love to have you back. Thank you so much.   [2:32:41] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate you.   [2:32:43] Ashley James: Wonderful. That’s a wrap. It went longer than I thought, but I really, really, really think it’s going to be very appreciated by everyone. So thank you for taking the time to do this.   [2:32:57] Dr. Stephen Cabral: My pleasure. Thank you.   [2:32:58] Ashley James: Thank you so much. Well, stay safe. Are you allowed to go home? Are you allowed to fly to Boston or are you stuck, you’re grounded?   [2:33:05] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Well, we were supposed to fly out of LA so all our flights got canceled, and at that point, we just decided we’re just going to stay in our little quarantine area of the world and not go back to Boston, which is one of the hotspots. For now, we’re staying put.   [2:33:21] Ashley James: Are you able to get out in nature in your area?   [2:33:25] Dr. Stephen Cabral: That’s one of the reasons why we’re here. It’s not snowing in Boston so we can actually walk outside, there’s sunshine, there’s the ocean air, so I’m a big believer that if myself and my young daughters were to get sick, I want them to have sunlight, fresh air, be outside, so that’s why we’re doing this. In Boston it’s cold air, it’s bad for the lungs, mucus-producing. It’s also allergy season. Most people are going to think their allergy symptoms are the Covid-19 and it’s not. We didn’t mention that on the podcast but that’s going to be another scare for people come April, come now.   [2:34:00] Ashley James: I’ll include that, I’ll include this right now. Great. Wow. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. This is awesome. Okay, great. I’ve got the links that you sent me, so we’ll include that as well.   [2:34:14] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Perfect. Great speaking with you today. Let me know if you need anything.   [2:34:16] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. Please, thank you. Go enjoy the fresh air and sunshine.   [2:34:23] Dr. Stephen Cabral: Thank you. You as well. Take care.   [2:34:25] Ashley James: Thanks, bye.   [2:34:26] Outro: I hope you enjoyed this interview. You can go to equilibriumnutrition.com/lth. That’s equilibriumnutrition.com/lth, and then use coupon code LTH10 for a special discount for the listeners on everything that Dr. Cabral does, his supplements, and I think he also sells some online classes, and awesome online courses, and digital downloads. Check that out as well. Of course, go to the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com, and check out all the links that Dr. Cabral gave us. Please, share this episode with everyone so we can help as many people as possible to Learn True Health.   Get Connected With Dr. Stephen Cabral: Official Website Dr. Stephen Cabral Podcast Equilibrium Nutrition The Rain Barrel Effect Cabral Wellness Online Store The Cabral Concept Facebook Instagram Recommended Reading The Rain Barrel Effect Check out these other amazing interviews with Dr. Stephen Cabral Episode 271 – The Rain Barrel Effect Episode 301 – Energy Draining Toxins

MedTerraCBD.com and use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Visit LearnTrueHealth.com/cbd to listen to episode 300 with Jay. IT'S HERE! Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen Use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Check out IIN and get a free module: LearnTrueHealth.com/coaching Join the Facebook group: LearnTrueHealth.com/group   Liposomal CBD https://www.learntruehealth.com/liposomal-cbd   Highlights: Effect of CBD on dogs What chromatography is Is CBD safe for children? Liposomal CBD Is there an antiviral or antibacterial cannabinoid?   We’re now in episode 420 and who better be on the show than Medterra CBD founder, Jay Hartenbach. In this episode, we caught up with Jay on how Medterra is handling the coronavirus situation and how they’re still able to produce and ship products to customers. Jay also talks about what Medterra has been up to, what studies they’ve participated in, and what products are in development.   [0:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 420. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Jay Hartenbach who is the founder of Medterra CBD, my favorite clean CBD company. Jay, we had you all the way back in episode 300. We’re in the 400s now so it’s been a while since we had you on the show. I can’t wait to hear what’s happened since we’ve had you on the show, and also how your company is staying in business to supply us with the needed CBD we need to keep our sanity. Because it’s so great for anxiety. Hemp cannabis is so great for keeping people calm and helping them. It’s very medicinal. You have a very clean form of CBD that doesn’t trigger tests if someone were to go get tested for THC, which we talk about in detail in episode 300. I recommend listeners check that out. Jay gives us a fantastic discount, gives the listener is 15% off by using coupon code LTH. So we can go to medterracbd.com and use coupon code LTH for the listener discount. Jay, welcome back to the show.   [0:01:38] Jay Hartenbach: Thanks for having me back, Ashley. I’m excited to be here.   [0:01:40] Ashley James: Absolutely. You are in social isolation. Your company has been making some major transitions for ensuring that everyone is safe, that your customers are safe when they receive your products, that your employees are safe. I’d love to go through all this information. Welcome back to the show. First of all, we’ll definitely hear what has been happening in the world of CBD since we had you on the show in episode 300. Right now, I know that your company has been taking this really seriously—the Covid-19 really seriously. You guys are in Southern California. What is your company doing to create social distancing and to make sure that everything is sanitized so that everyone’s healthy—both your customers and your employees?   [0:02:37] Jay Hartenbach: Absolutely, yeah. I think companies have a huge responsibility here. As the founder and the CEO of Medterra, you can impart a lot of change with something that can be viral—literally viral. Even though we may only employ 70 or 80 employees, there’s a huge responsibility because those 70 or 80 employees if sick could go and infect a lot more people and create this cascading effect. We made the decision two weeks ago to shut down the office entirely. We’ve sent all the employees home just except for the few fulfillment employees that we have that are now going to be leaving tomorrow. They’re going to just be able to go on permanent leave, basically a paid vacation which is it’s good for them. They’ve worked so hard over the last months. They more than deserve it. We’ve been able to send everyone home. It’s been a huge transition for us as a company because we have been so close for the last three years and working with each other. You’ve got a lot of friendships that have developed. Now everyone being remote, we were really worried about just the productivity but just also the morale. There’s a lot of concern in the environment of what’s going to happen, what’s going to happen with the economy? It’s been really reassuring to see you’ve got employees that are tagging each other on social media and making them do challenges from their house. We’ve stayed really, really connected. In some ways, I think we’ve actually become even more productive and the communication has been even better because you’re forced to do so. You can’t not communicate because the only way to do it is to actually send them a message or a video chat. We have made that decision. It’s great to see other companies also making the decision to shut down the office and send everyone home.   [0:04:25] Ashley James: So you have a 40,000 square foot office—I think you said—in Southern California. How are you doing fulfillment then if everyone’s going home? So if someone orders your products are they not going to get it for the next two months or how does that work?   [0:04:45] Jay Hartenbach: That’s a great question. The fulfillment staff that has stayed there really for the last two weeks, like you had said, it is a very big space so social distancing is very possible in the Medterra office when there are only six employees doing fulfillment. What we’ve also been able to do—and this just us growing and maturing as a company—is starting to work with other third-party logistics companies spread out throughout the United States. Our business, fortunately, has grown a lot larger than even when we last spoke. So the need for these different warehouses across the United States is very important. They are very, I should say, prepared to handle these types of situations. Just like what we were doing in the Medterra office where every order that we were sending out we were just wiping down as an extra precaution. For our customers, these third party logistics warehouses and companies that we work with throughout the US are doing the same. That just allows everything to stay and run smoothly. We work with three different shipping partners: UPS, FedEx, and USPS, so orders are going out on time and they’re being delivered. In some cases, actually being delivered faster because we’re moving some of that shipping to our East Coast warehouses as opposed to having to ship everything from California.   [0:06:00] Ashley James: Awesome. So everything is sanitized. You are paying your employees to stay home during this quarantine, which I love to hear that people are able to keep their jobs. They will, of course, be loyal to your company for doing that. You help them they’re going to help you. I love seeing that. You’re not just hanging them out to dry. What did you mean by challenges from home? Can you give me some examples of how your employees have been challenging each other from home?   [0:06:39] Jay Hartenbach: I think everyone’s seen the push-up challenge or tag a pup. That’s gone viral on Instagram and social media. Now, I’m starting to see employees saying where they used to have, at two o’clock, they’d go get a shot of expresso together to beat the afternoon slow down. They’re now doing it remotely. It’s just fun to fun to see it. We are fortunate enough that we’ve got a very nice gym in the office. Now that everyone is not able to use that, it’s the same thing. You got people tagging each other and making them do home workouts. It’s just funny. There are also the challenges of working from home. I think it’s not a true conference call when people are working from home unless one dog barks or you have one child in the background. That’s been fun just seeing everyone, what they look like at home. Like I said before, it is just incredible. I think we are so fortunate to have employees that truly believe in what we’re doing as a company. That’s why it’s so easy to take care of them because they just are—whatever adversity we give them, the CBD industry just in general has had a lot of adversity. Obviously, this has thrown another layer of challenges on, and just seeing how the employees are responding is incredible. I sent a message actually out to the team earlier today and I said, “If we had to start from scratch, I have no concerns because this is the team that I would do it with.” I truly mean that. There’s a lot of great CBD companies, but I really think that the Medterra team, in particular, is a special group. I’m just excited to continue to work through them no matter what the challenges present themselves to be.   [0:08:30] Ashley James: Absolutely. In our first interview, episode 300, we talked about the quality of Medterra about how you really work hard to make sure that the hemp that you derived the CBD from is really high-quality and medicinal, doesn’t have pesticides, that you have a filtration system so that you extract the CBD without the THC. There’s a lot that goes into the production. Listeners can go back to episode 300 to hear about that. We also shared a really interesting story about—I think it was a friend’s father or grandfather who had Parkinson’s. When he took the CBD, his shaking reduced or went away when he took it. Any updates on him?   [0:09:22] Jay Hartenbach: Yeah, continues to use the product. Just so that we’re friendly with our friends at the FDA, certainly not endorsing it as a treatment for that. I can say confidently that he has included that in his daily regimen. Going back to that point of having employees really believe in the company, every one of our employees has some type of personal connection to CBD. Whether it’s a family member or a friend that has seen the benefits for themselves—individually seen the benefits. It’s really easy as a CEO of a company to motivate people when you already have that type of product. It’s exciting. That’s one of the cases. Because of that case actually and a couple others we’ve created this Medterra Assists program where there’s people that—based on either a disability or just being older and on a limited income or any type of service member: so military, police, fire—we give a significant discount sometimes up to 50% depending on the condition so that they can get access to these products. Because even though we try to keep our products as fairly priced as possible, they still are expensive. Those cases make it worth it for us, so we try to help where we can.   [0:10:39] Ashley James: Absolutely. It’s an expensive process to go through to make a CBD isolate that is clean, safe, and healthy. You’re making a high-quality product, and sometimes you have to pay more for quality. You get what you pay for especially in this industry. I love that you’re providing a big discount for those who really need it but can’t afford it. That’s fantastic. It’s like you could almost create a charity program or something on the side. What has happened in the last—I think it’s been about a year and a half since you’ve been on the show. What’s happened in Medterra CBD in the last year and a half? How have you guys grown? What kind of science, what kind of studies have come out? I’d love to hear what you guys are doing now.   [0:11:44] Jay Hartenbach: Absolutely. It’s a year and a half years. I think three or four years or maybe five years. So much has happened. When we talked last, which was like you said a year and a half ago, we were in a 3,000 square foot office. We had 10 employees working with us.   [0:12:03] Ashley James: It’s awesome.   [0:12:03] Jay Hartenbach: Now, like I said, we’re in a 40,000 square foot space. We have just under 80 employees working with us. It’s just been incredible to see that growth. A lot of it is compliments to the team in executing, but it’s also just being a part of such a fast-growing industry. When we talked about we really were focused on isolate, and we were really focused on CBD. That was our mission as a company. Now, a year and a half later, CBD is still our primary mission, but what we’ve recognized as a company is that there are other ingredients beyond CBD that can be powerful. So our goal is not to deliver the best CBD product but just to deliver the best product in general. So we’re now working on really cool blends that take other natural ingredients to really enhance that efficacy. We’re just launching this new gummy line right now where gummies can be a great way to deliver CBD because it’s in a friendly format. Customers and consumers like gummies. If that helps them get on a regular regimen, then I’m all in favor of it. Just not selling a CBD gummy that’s got high fructose corn syrup and is loaded with gelatin and isn’t vegan friendly. Ours are pectin-base and all have additional ingredients whether it’s our Keep Calm, or Sleep Tight gummy, or even our Stay Alert gummy. They all have these different ingredients that ultimately give a more efficacious product to the consumer, which is what they’re doing. One of the realizations we’ve had over the last year and a half too is people aren’t taking CBD for the sake of taking CBD. At least not anymore. I think in 2017 and earlier, it was this cool hip product. People were taking it just to be on that cutting edge. At this point, people are taking CBD because they believe that it works and it can help them. That’s become our mission as a company, just to ultimately deliver the most effective product. Those products all do contain CBD, but how do we get there? It’s different blends as well as some of our new delivery methods like liposomes that we’re working on.   [0:14:09] Ashley James: And have enough CBD in them so it’s not like trace amounts just so you can say. I bought a deodorant and it actually really works. I’m really happy with this deodorant. I always buy 100% natural deodorants, but honest to God it says there’s CBD in my deodorant. I had to laugh so hard because I’m like, “Why do my armpits need CBD really?” It’s probably trace amounts just so they can say like, “This is a CBD deodorant,” and that’s not why I bought it. I mean there’s charcoal and coconut oil and all kinds of other stuff and baking soda and whatever. It works. It’s one of the best deodorant I’ve ever used, but just the fact that it has CBD in it just made me chuckle because it’s one of those things now, it’s gimmicky. You can put a trace amount of CBD in something and then, “Oh, it’s CBD. We could charge $10 more,” but you’re not doing trace amounts in these gummies. You’re trying to get as much CBD as possible into them?   [0:15:06] Jay Hartenbach: That’s correct, yeah. We just take that stuff for granted, but it is worth highlighting because there is just a wide variety of CBD products on the market. Our gummies, as an example, have 25 milligrams of CBD per gummy. Most gummy or CBD gummies on the market usually have 5 to 10 milligrams. So we’re anywhere from 5 to 2 ½  times stronger from a gummy standpoint. That just goes back to our belief in looking at the clinical data where really, at a minimum, if you’re ingesting CBD you’re starting to see effects and that 15 milligrams per serving and kind of going up from there. A 5 or 10 milligram gummy is great. I think that’s a good place to start, but we are very scientifically-driven. So we want to make sure that we’re putting efficacious amounts to the CBD and all of our products.   [0:15:55] Ashley James: Speaking of scientifically-driven, have you guys participated in any studies or any scientific papers? Has there been anything new in the last year and a half in terms of the science?   [0:16:15] Jay Hartenbach: Absolutely, yeah. That’s something that we’re actually very proud of. We just finished a study that’s in peer review right now with the Baylor College of Medicine. It was a combined study with Baylor as well as some local that’s in Houston. What we were studying was the effect of CBD both in naked format or the way that it’s taken now as well as a liposomal format, which we can talk about more. We compared the efficacy versus obviously a control. So as a five-arm, double-blind placebo-controlled study. We were taking senior dogs that had not found any benefit from traditional arthritis medication. Their owners volunteered to participate in that study. We weren’t locking the dogs up. They went home with the owners every night. I was talking to the marketing team. They said, “You need to make sure that when you talk about this that you clarify that this was not an animal study where they’re locked up.”   [0:17:1] Ashley James: People would be knocking on your door so hard. I love that. When you said vets I thought you meant veterans, but you actually meant the doctors like veterinarians. That’s another thing you definitely want to clarify because I’m like, “Oh, the vets. They would really like this.” Coming back from war and having post-traumatic stress and then being given liposomal CBD and seeing how it affects them. Okay. So this is pain and dogs, which I find funny that we have to do a double-blind placebo study because it’s not like the dog knows whether we’re giving it olive oil extract or CBD. The dog doesn’t know, but this just going to prove even more that it works. How would they measure pain in dogs? They’re not limping, they’re not yelping, they’re able to walk and run? How did they measure the effects of CBD on these dogs, these senior dogs with arthritis?   [0:18:18] Jay Hartenbach: Well, that’s a great point. So the reason the double-blind was required was because we use something called the Helsinki Pain Index, which is an internationally recognized way of scoring animal behavior specifically to dogs. Like you said, it ties to their gait, how quickly they can go from sitting to standing, and then standing to laying down, and just this qualitative score. That double-blind placebo-control is really important because we don’t want the vets that necessarily know which dog is receiving the CBD or not CBD, but also throw the owners as well. If you’ve got an animal or a pet that’s in suffering, it breaks your heart. You’re really looking for any glimmer of hope. Maybe they get up a little bit faster than they usually do and you’re like, “Oh my God it’s working. This it.” So it was very important for us just to make sure that it was completely double-blinded so that there wasn’t any way of misconstruing the data because it was a qualitative as opposed to a quantitative scoring system. We were looking at, like I said, how they were getting up and how they’re moving. What was really exciting was in the arm of the study where we were giving—these were larger dogs so 80-pound dogs. We were giving them 50 milligrams a day. What we were doing was also looking at their liver profile to make sure that there weren’t any elevated liver enzymes, as well as looking at their red and white blood cell counts, as well as kidney analysis just to make sure that there was minimal side effects if not any side effects. In that one arm, 80% of the dog saw 50% improvement or more. This is on a 30-day study, which for us—I think anyone that’s familiar with clinical trials or any type of kind of medical research—30 days is lightning fast. So to see that type of result in 30 days, then we did a follow-on study 30 days after they completed a treatment just to see how quickly they would revert back to their previous symptoms. It was really encouraging to see. That study is in peer review. Go ahead.   [0:20:35] Ashley James: I was just going to say, so to clarify, how many dogs were in the study?   [0:20:39] Jay Hartenbach: There were 25 dogs total. We had five dogs in each arm.   [0:20:44] Ashley James: Okay. When you said each arm there was a placebo, so five dogs were not getting anything?   [0:20:52] Jay Hartenbach: Correct. Five dogs were in the control, five dogs were in the 20 milligrams of regular CBD oil, and then the third group was 50 milligrams, and then we did 20 milligrams of our liposomal delivery, and then 50 milligrams of our liposomal delivery. Each there was five, which is not a very large number. This is granted a preliminary study, but it was powered enough where we could see statistically significant results because of—   [0:21:22] Ashley James: Eighty percent of the dogs that received the CBD saw a 50% improvement. Was there a big difference in dose or did they—across the board no matter what the dose was—see an improvement?   [0:21:35] Jay Hartenbach: They did. The one group that received CBD that saw an improvement but not a significant improvement was the 20 milligrams of CBD oil. So non-encapsulated in a liposome. The one comment that we have to make on that is obviously these were larger dogs, so the average weight was 80 pounds. So think of big labs. One was that enough CBD for them to be effective, and two, these were, like I said, severely arthritic dogs that I don’t think we’re necessarily having the run of a mill arthritis or just age-related conditions. In that 50 milligram arm of just receiving plain CBD oil, so just our Medterra Pet CBD oil 50 milligrams a day, so 25 in the morning and then 25 at night, that’s where that 80% saw 50% improvement or more. That’s something that I’d be happy to share. Like I said, it’s in peer review right now. We are hoping to publish in the next month or so. So we’re excited about that.   [0:22:42] Ashley James: Very cool. That’s great. So you followed up a month later. How are the dogs doing?   [0:22:49] Jay Hartenbach: Yeah. So a month later is a little bittersweet. For the dogs that were receiving just a regular CBD oil, it was this little heartbreaking because the owners are like, “I need to put them back on CBD as quickly as possible.” The dogs were obviously not very happy from seeing this huge reduction in their symptoms, and now all of a sudden reverting back over the course of really 15 to 20 days to start showing the same symptoms that they were having prior to starting the study. All of the dogs that completed the study though are now receiving free Medterra CBD for life. It was a tough 30-day period after this study, but now they’re all receiving their CBD and they’re all taking it What was really fascinating for us and this what’s leading us to do some additional studies and actually talking about vets in the sense of veterans, the liposomal delivery, which is a way of encapsulating the CBD so that it becomes hydrophilic and non-hydrophobic, but also dramatically increases the bioavailability as well as the length of time that it is biologically active in the blood. We were seeing 30 days after still some of the symptoms coming back but significantly reduced. That was very encouraging. I was joking with someone. Someone said, “I don’t know if that’s a great product for you guys to be selling. You’re going to put yourselves out of business.” Look, at the end of the day, we truly believe it. If we’re helping people and animals, then ultimately we’re going to have a strong company. If we ultimately can help them take less CBD down the road, then that’s great because that means they’re seeing less symptoms.   [0:24:33] Ashley James: I think it’s fantastic. You make a quality CBD product that ends up making it so that people need to take less and it lasts longer. Sure, they’ll buy less from you, but you’ll get more customers. Your goal has always been to help as many people as possible, and to make a high-quality product that is holistic, that is healthy, and healing. You’re on par with your mission statement. You’re not looking to try to get as much money out of everyone as possible. You’re trying to really help them. If you can make a very effective CBD product, then you actually would rise above the rest. I love that you’re putting the effort and the money into all the science around it, which is what you talked about also in episode 300. Really interesting. I love that those dogs are on Medterra CBD for the rest of their life. I thought that was really cool. Why does CBD help to reduce pain especially in an instance where maybe it’s bone-on-bone? Obviously, CBD is not reversing arthritis, but it is significantly helping with pain. Is it that CBD blocks pain receptors, decreases inflammation? Do you know scientifically why CBD helps so much with pain?   [0:26:06] Jay Hartenbach: We’ve got a couple—I shouldn’t say guesses I think it’s a little more educated than a guess. That’s part of the ongoing research, but what we’re seeing is a couple of things. This is done with some of the lab work that we’ve partnered with Baylor to do. One, we’re seeing CBD actually bind directly to the neutrophils. So usually, in cases where you’ve got systemic arthritis, you’ve got overactive neutrophils that are part of our immune system that if operating and working properly these neutrophils are helping combat any foreign particles that are entering or foreign bacteria or viruses entering the body. If you have an overactive neutrophil that’s basically attacking nearby cells that aren’t bad and they’re native to the body, then that’s a huge issue. What we’re seeing is CBD actually binding to these neutrophils and turning that activity down. That is one, going to just help arthritis in general because that can be a cause of arthritis. The second part of it is to just the actual inflammation around the body. You’ve seen, we do have studies showing that CBD can turn down inflammation through a variety of methods in the body both applied topically and ingested. One of the things I think we talked about in episode 300 was if we look at just the human conditions that people are afflicted with, a vast majority of them have some tie-in to inflammation or that’s a GI issue, a dermatitis issue. If you can address just the root cause of that inflammation, then you’re going to ultimately see that benefit. The actual mechanism and the pathway forward is really—I think actually under scrutiny right now—a lot of people have thought—this is new to the industry. Okay, you’ve got this endocannabinoids system. That CBD binds to CB1 and CB2 receptors, and that’s how it operates. We’re seeing, yes, that is part of the pathway for CBD to interact with the body, but like I said, you’re seeing CBD also bind with other parts of the body that aren’t tied directly to the endocannabinoid system. It’s almost creating a more holistic effect than what we thought. The endocannabinoids system, it was really discovered and started being researched in the early 90s. To think that there weren’t going to be any revisions or new understandings on how it would work, I think was a little misguided or maybe too optimistic. We’re starting to find that out, and that’s exciting for us where you have CBD that’s actually binding to serotonin receptors in the brain. It’s not going through a CB1 receptor and then activating some type of cascade that then affects our serotonin levels. It’s actually just binding to the serotonin receptor in the cell. That’s exciting for us. It’s just hinting at the potential of both CBD, but just all of these cannabinoids that we’re now looking at and starting to evaluate.   [0:29:12] Ashley James: You mention that CBD, they’re seeing now that it binds to neutrophils, that it’s part of the immune system. Are there studies that show that CBD helps us to combat bacteria or viruses?   [0:29:27] Jay Hartenbach: Yeah. That’s a great question as of late. CBD and just like you talked about your deodorant that has CBD in it. What is the actual justified use? CBD can be very helpful in helping our iMMUNne system from a variety of ways, but not necessarily directly. In the sense that we look at CBD and its ability to help people reduce any type of stress or potentially help with anxiety, those are both causes of immune system degradation. If you’re overly stressed, if you’re not sleeping well, then your immune system is going to start performing poorly. CBD has an immediate opportunity to be beneficial to the immune system through those pathways of just helping you be an overall healthy. Medterra right now, we actually are developing, and we’re going to be launching this shortly—an Immunity Tincture. It has CBD in it because of those properties that I just described, but it also has Echinacea and elderberry in it to directly act on the immune system to boost the immune system. So kind of goes back to that mission of ours where we want to use CBD where CBD is very important to us, but we’re also not ignorant to the other ingredients that we could potentially include to get this more holistic, more ultimately efficacious product. There is one cannabinoid though. I’ve heard CBG as an example that may have some antibacterial and antiviral effects. There’s a lot more work that needs to be done on that, but that is really interesting to see that there is one cannabinoid specifically that has shown some antibacterial properties, which is exciting.   [0:31:16] Ashley James: Back when I interviewed you in episode 300 your CBD has been filtered so that there’s no other cannabinoids, there’s no other—what’s the word—particles from the cannabis plant or the hemp plant.   [0:31:36] Jay Hartenbach: Yeah, cannabis.   [0:31:37] Ashley James: There’s the terpenes and all that stuff. It’s not in there, it’s only CBD and that’s great for postal workers, and flight attendants, or policemen, and people that have to take drug tests, or construction workers. They have to take drug tests. I remember my husband was a foreman union carpenter for 20 years. There was drug testing. When CBD came on the market he was worried about taking it. He wanted to try the CBD, which doesn’t get you high. Kids can take it safely. Like you said, pets can take it safely. It’s not a drug. It’s not a street drug. It’s not going to get you high. He really wanted to take it, but at the state at the same time, there wasn’t any CBD product that would say this is not going to trigger a drug test. When he was a union foreman union carpenter, if he were to have an accident let’s say like cut himself, if you have any accident on the job, they immediately require you to get a drug test. I just remember his conflict because he really believed in all the information coming out and really wanted to try it. He had always had anxiety. He was looking for more natural ways of handling it. Then, of course, the anxiety of, “Well, if I take this CBD what if I have to do a drug test? What if it shows up positive?” That would give him anxiety. He was really just stuck in a hard place. Whereas you’ve solved this problem. That a policeman can take your CBD and know that it’s not going to trigger a drug test because it’s been isolated away from all the other elements of the plants that might trigger the test. When we did speak in episode 300 we talked about all the medicinal benefits that are in the plant itself, because aside from THC and THCA, it’s the acidic form before it’s been heated. It doesn’t get you high, but it has medicinal properties. There are so many other cannabinoids in the cannabis and in the hemp plant that don’t get you high if processed properly, and that are medicinal and so healthy. There are now companies that want to make whole plant medicines. You were looking into that back then in the last year and a half. Have you made any headway or have you decided against it?   [0:34:27] Jay Hartenbach: Absolutely, yeah. To all those points that, Ashley, you just made one was a recognition. Even when we started Medterra there was this idea that when we looked at the medical research there was so much justification for having a CBD isolate because all of the medical research—specifically to CBD—was done on the isolate as opposed to a full-spectrum product. We felt confident that it was something that we could sell and feel like we were actually providing benefits. Even since the beginning of Medterra, we never were wanting to dismiss the other properties of these cannabinoids because while CBD could really do a lot of the heavy lifting, I think it would be crazy to think that other parts of the plant couldn’t be beneficial. We just talked about CBG potentially having some antibacterial or antiviral effects. To your point, one of the things that we had been exploring was this broad-spectrum component. As a company, Medterra really will never sell a product that has THC in it, but to your point, maybe there’s a way of including other parts of the plant like the terpenes, and the flavonoids, and the other cannabinoids besides THC to get more of a holistic encompassing effect. We have actually recently launched a broad-spectrum product. It’s something that we’re really proud of because we’ve been working on it for a while. There’s a lot of broad-spectrum products out there and some are really good. So I want to make sure I clarify that. We don’t only have the good one, but a lot of broad-spectrum products use a manufacturing method very similar to ours to produce our isolate. The way that they get rid of the THC is by just simply adding more and more isolate back into the full spectrum blend. If you add enough isolate into your full spectrum blend that might be let’s say 60% CBD and has 3% THC right when it leaves, obviously, the distillation. You just continually bombard it with more and more isolate, then eventually you’re going to get to the THC level will be to a non-detect amount, which is great. You now may not be free of THC, but you’ve got it at such a low level that people shouldn’t be concerned. The downside is that you’ve basically also diluted everything else out of that full spectrum blend except for the CBD. Now you’re just selling hemp-flavored isolate, which I think is a disservice to people.   [0:36:53] Ashley James: A lot of companies are doing that. You go to the drugstore or you buy online, that’s what you’re getting.   [0:37:01] Jay Hartenbach: Exactly. That’s unfortunate. Just like when we’re talking about when we last spoke, if there’s any time you have any concern, any reputable CBD company should be able. One, they should have it on their website, but two, if you call them into their customer service line or send them an email, should be able to provide any CoA from any batch that you’ve purchased. You can quickly ascertain, “Okay. Are they doing this hemp-flavored isolate where they’re just diluting everything out?” You’ll know because you’ll see CBD concentration really high and then everything else will be non-detect, which like I said, doesn’t necessarily do you any good. You should just buy CBD isolate. It’s going to be cheaper. With that being said, there have been some advances in the actual processing. Through this process of using chromatography where we’re able to selectively isolate out a compound. Instead of saying, Look, we’re going to isolate for CBD and leave everything else behind.” What we’re going to do is actually take this entire full-spectrum blend and just pull out the THC. You can do that through a process called chromatography. Even when we talked last time, it largely wasn’t scalable for the CBD industry. You could produce maybe two or four kilos at a time or even the best labs. If you’re trying to put that on a national level, that’s just not going to scale, but some of the more recent advances have really allowed that to scale. You’ve got a lot of labs that are now operating in a much larger level. Now that we are confident that it is a true broad-spectrum product, we’ve actually brought it to market. Our target for these broad-spectrum products is to really have anywhere from 10:20, 20:1 CBD:my inert cannabinoid ratio. It is meaningful. It’s still very largely a CBD product, but you have meaningful amounts of CBG, and CBC, and CBN all showing up on the COA. Not only in the bulk format but in the actual finished product format so that consumers are actually getting that benefit. That’s been great for us because it’s really allowed us to branch out. The broad-spectrum products have quickly become a favorite of a lot of our customers where they love the CBD products, but getting those extra cannabinoids in there certainly isn’t hurting them, and for a lot is helping them. So that’s been exciting for us.   [0:39:25] Ashley James: Yeah, no kidding. What was the process, chromatography? How does that work?   [0:39:32] Jay Hartenbach: Knowing that you’ve got different molecular weights for all the cannabinoids—and part of the issue of isolating them out and this why it hasn’t been largely scalable is because the molecular weights are so similar. The compounds themselves are just very similar. It’s very difficult to isolate. Using a chromatography, you basically create these call it chemical filters or chemical gradients that allow basically the different densities of the compounds to sift through this filter. What it creates is this almost imagine a flowing tap—for illustrative purposes. You put the material through in the beginning, and then what comes out first will be let’s say CBD. Then as you go to a different molecular weight then it’s CBG. Then a different molecular weight it’ll be CBN. Then the next molecular weight that passes through the filter based on the different densities will be THC. You just note, “Okay. Based on what’s coming through on your testing you’re kind of pulling samples. Okay, this is the THC part of it. We need to just discard that, and then we can continue to last the rest of the flavonoids and terpenes flow through. They each come out individually and then you recombine them at the end and. It basically reconstitute that full-spectrum blend just without the THC.   [0:40:57] Ashley James: Fascinating. Do they take the THC and go sell it as a concentrate?   [0:41:05] Jay Hartenbach: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve got that question. We’re just talking with one of our distributors and they said, “Just let me know as a friend where they discard it.” No, they destroy it. It’s just a part of the federal regulations.   [0:41:20] Ashley James: Oh, man. They could have made such a great—I don’t know. I just think I live in Washington and they sell stuff here legally. I will just be like, “Hey, that’s like a byproduct that they could turn around and sell to people that want it,” I don’t partake anymore. I’m from Canada. All Canadians in the 90s grew up on pot. I prefer to be sober. I actually prefer. I don’t drink alcohol. I prefer to just have my wits about me. I’m not against anyone that chooses to partake. It’s just I like being in my body. I’m a Pisces. I’m so ungrounded and so like in the ether as it is. I just like to be grounded as much as possible and have my wits about me. I see that it’s in Washington State, people partake. I think it’s a healthier alternative than drinking alcohol, to be honest. People don’t smoke a joint and then start a bar fight and kill people. They usually just chill out, whereas alcohol, alcohol tends to cause more accidents and more violence in general. Your product does not contain anything that would make someone high. Can children take it or is there a warning that children aren’t allowed to take it? How does that work?   [0:42:54] Jay Hartenbach: That’s a great question. We do have parents buying it for their children and taking and giving it to their children. We’ve had a couple of parents say that it’s helping their child focus more, be less hyperactive. So children are taking it. It’s just like anything. When you’re talking about children, or pregnant women, or any of that, it’s just making sure that whatever y                                                                                                                                                                                              our primary care physician or anyone that has some medical experience to just make sure that they’re in the loop. There haven’t been a lot of studies just because CBD is so new. We’ve talked about there is an endocannabinoid system in every mammal. Whether you’re a newborn or you’re 80 years old, CBD has the ability to interact with your body however it may do that. Especially with really young children, as children get into their teens, then you don’t have as much concern. That’s just something that you want to watch very carefully. You’ve got children that are obviously taking it for the treatment of epilepsy with Epidiolex. They’ve done a lot of safety studies on these children. Looking at their liver and making sure that it wasn’t toxic to their liver in really high doses. That doesn’t seem to be a big safety concern, but at the same time, I think anytime you’re giving something to your children you’ve got to make you’re really educated. If you’ve got any questions, we’re here to help. Certainly, your physician should be able to help guide that conversation.   [0:44:39] Ashley James: Absolutely. That makes so much sense. I know of a few epileptic children who have completely been able to—and these were the ones that weren’t responding to drugs. Using cannabis, using CBD they, were able to reduce. In one instance, one person completely eliminated their seizures. That’s very interesting. I’ve had several doctors on the show talk about this. That our body has the endocannabinoid system. We have receptors for cannabinoids, and our body makes cannabinoids. So essentially our body’s making CBD. Because we’re nutrient deficient, so let’s say Omega 3s, whatever fatty acids our body uses to make these endocannabinoids. When we are deficient in certain healthy fats our body can’t make enough of it, and then we become deficient in them. Then when we take an external CBD, it is like filling the nutrient deficiency. It’s a nutrient we’re deficient in. Those people that gain great benefits, so they take the CBD and they notice that they’re happier, calmer, significantly less anxiety, they’re able to focus, that they have better sleep, that they’re in less pain. Those people had nutrient deficiencies and fatty acids to the point where their body wasn’t making. Their own endocannabinoid system was deficient, so now they’re fulfilling it. Some people take CBD and they don’t notice anything. Well, maybe they don’t have anxiety, they don’t have pain, and they don’t have problem sleeping. They were kind of surprised, “I took it. I didn’t notice anything.” Well, maybe they’re not deficient. So they took it, but the CBD didn’t need to fulfill.  There was no nutrient deficiency for that person. It’s not that CBG doesn’t work, it’s that it really works for people who are nutrient deficient, and many people are. Many people don’t have enough of those healthy fatty acids because we’re eating the wrong fats. We’re eating polyunsaturated fatty acids. That’s the majority of our diet, especially in the United States. So we’re getting the wrong fats, which are clogging everything up instead of the right fats that we can use, that our body can use to fulfill the endocannabinoid system. Your CBD supplement is literally a supplement that’s fulfilling a deficiency, which is what these doctors are saying. I find that to be really fascinating especially when we look and see that some children react really well to it. Of course elderly and everyone in between. This deficiency doesn’t discriminate against age because it’s about whether we’re consuming, digesting, and absorbing enough nutrients. This is what these doctors are saying about CBD. So we can really see it as a nutrient that is necessary for our body and not something that’s recreational or something just that’s cute and fun and, “Oh, that’s interesting.” It’s an essential nutrient the body actually needs.   [0:48:10] Jay Hartenbach: Totally. I couldn’t agree more. That’s one thing that really has to be communicated, that endocannabinoids system like you said. An endo-cannabinoid, as an example, is anandamide, which is a very similar analog to CBD. So if your body’s not producing that, like you said, because you’re not getting the right fats in your body, they’ve linked omega-3 deficiency with the inability to produce endocannabinoids as an example, then you’re going to need some type of supplement. Going back to the earlier point of if we ultimately sell less CBD because people are healthier, then that’s okay because we’re going to get more customers. I don’t think the world is going to have a shortage of people that are not nutrient deficient or need to be healthier. If we can help people on their health and wellness journey, get a little bit more healthier then I think that’s awesome. That’s just a huge win for us as a company. We’re going to start understanding that even more as we do more research. Like everything in the body, it’s never black or white. It’s always something connected to another thing. There’s never a one fix-all. You could take a ton of CBD, but if you’re sleeping two hours at night, you’re probably not going to be a very healthy person. You sleep eight hours at night and you eat McDonald’s for lunch every day. It’s all about balance and making sure that you’re in touch with your body. I love what you said about just being grounded in general. Because when people have more self-awareness of what’s going on in their body, then they can find even more effective treatments because they know exactly what issue they need to address.   [0:49:47] Ashley James: Wonderful. It has been about a year and a half, and you’ve talked about some exciting things. Is there anything in the CBD industry that’s come out that really surprised you? Because you have been so deep in this information. Has anything surprised you recently about CBD? Any new studies that have shocked you?   [0:50:14] Jay Hartenbach: New studies that shocked me, let me think on that. We talked about this. What we understand of the endocannabinoid system is going to be turned on its head, a little bit at least. That’s not for the worst, I think that’s just us understanding it better. The endocannabinoids system is going to continue to be very important, but just know that CBD isn’t limited to just these CB1 and CB2 receptors I think is relatively groundbreaking for scientists because they’ve been so closely looking at CB1 and CB2 receptors. What’s going to be really groundbreaking, maybe we talk in a year and a half—hopefully, it’s much sooner—it’s these other cannabinoids that are now coming to light. They’re becoming feasible to put into products. Early studies of CBG I thought were pretty groundbreaking and showing that it could be antibacterial. That it’s actually helping. I saw some studies out of the UK that it shows that it’s actually helping with cancer. That’s really on the forefront. Everyone has this sneaking suspicion that we’re just scratching the surface, and it’s great to see those finally come to light. I think shocking just in the CBD world in general, what we’re seeing is the FDA finally coming on board. We’re kind of shocked by how long it took the FDA. It’s one of those things where I totally respect what the FDA is doing. They need to do it in a systematic way so that they’re not doing it incorrectly or leaving any loopholes, but the longer they take to act the more time unscrupulous companies can exist. We’re very careful when we’re talking about medical claims and making sure that we have our products manufactured correctly. It’s hard to continue to stay and compete and do well when you have some guy that’s mixing it up in his garage and he’s saying that it’s going to be the end-all-be-all. Medterra is doing fine, but it’s that has been shocking because ultimately, the FDA can do a lot of good by being very clear on future guidelines of CBD and really forcing the bad actors to either clean up their act or get out of the industry.   [0:52:34] Ashley James: Yeah. We have to be careful about the claims that these companies make. It’s kind of the Wild Wild West, isn’t it? We want good regulations but at the same time, the FDA is a revolving door for pharmaceutical companies. They’re threatened by CBD because it’s cutting into their profits because people are getting off of pain meds or reducing pain meds. That reduces their profits. I’m always leery. On one hand, we want the FDA to protect us, but on the other hand, we don’t want them to take away our right to access it. That’s why the FDA does not regulate supplements. There are laws. You can’t make health claims. I can’t say, “Buy my vitamin C. It cures XYZ disease.” You can’t make health claims and make a profit off of something. If I was a doctor, I could say, “Vitamin C cures scurvy,” and that would be legal. But I couldn’t say, “My vitamin C brand cares scurvy. You should buy it.” There are laws around health claims and selling supplements, but as far as if the FDA regulated the supplement industry, they would do so in order to shut down many of the good companies that are out there. This is just getting into we need the Goldilocks. We need the balance. We need to be able to have good regulations, like you said, can get the bad actors to clean up or get out. I’m always like just cautious because CBD is such a good product at reducing pain. It is cutting into the profits of the pharmaceutical industry. So I don’t want them to start regulating it to the point where it’s going to shut down good companies like you.  Your company could lobby. Have you considered hiring some lobbyists to help Medterra and help the whole CBD industry? Is it to the point where we don’t need to lobby?   [0:55:00] Jay Hartenbach: No. There definitely need political action. Medterra, since really our existence, we’ve been a part of the U.S. Hemp Roundtable. This year, we actually just joined the Executive Board of the U.S. Hemp Roundtable. It’s a great advocacy group that works directly with politicians. It’s so interesting what politics being so polarizing. We are, as a group, working closely with Senator McConnell’s office and also working with Senator Schumer’s office. Depending on which side of the aisle you lean towards, one of those names might send chills up your spine.   [0:55:42] Ashley James: You need both sides to be on your side. You just need everyone to be on the side of CBD. It doesn’t matter. You just need all of them. Get as many of them as possible.   [0:55:54] Jay Hartenbach: That’s exactly it. They are. I guess it’s maybe a little biased, but I feel like the politicians in my mind are redeeming themselves. Because there’s this idea in America that some of the politicians can be very self-serving or just really only aligned with the party and not necessarily in with putting American citizens’ interests first. Them both working with each other, it kind of shows that look they are working towards a greater good. The new FDA Commissioner even said—I think it was a couple of weeks ago—said, “I would be a fool to think that I could outlaw CBD.” We know what the future holds we just don’t know when. The first step that’s going to happen in probably sometime this summer, Congress is looking to pass a bill that will include language mandating that CBD is a dietary supplement. We think that’s going to happen in the summer with obviously an election year as well as obviously this international health crisis that we’re all facing. There’s some TBD on that, but ultimately that will pass. The FDA, like we said, is I think in favor of making CBD a dietary supplement. They just don’t want to create a policy. One of the issues is this will be the first time that something has existed as a pharmaceutical product that then is now going to be sold as a dietary supplement. The reason this was set was in 2014 GW Pharma, right when it became legal, filed their IND for Epidiolex. So it became a pharmaceutical off the bat before anyone could even sell CBD as a dietary supplement. They’re selling it now. The FDA does have some concern, not about CBD, but what other pharmaceutical drugs are now going to start being marketed as a dietary supplement, or what pressure are they going to face for other compounds not even related to CBD because of the precedent that they’ve set. I don’t envy their job. I know people have this love-hate thing with the FDA, but I do believe that they are acting really in the best intention of making CBD as a dietary supplement. I think they’re on board with that. Allowing there to be some clear guidelines to kind of remove those bad actors, and then just freeing up these questions and concerns. You’ve got retailers like we work with, as an example, Albertsons is selling ingestible CBD products. Other retailers like CVS and Walgreens that we work with only carry the topical products because they’re worried about carrying the ingestible products. There’s just this confusion that ultimately is going to get cleared up. In the meantime what we’re also working on that pharmaceutical front and talking about veterans, we actually are working on developing prescription or pharmaceutical products. We’re not using synthetic compounds. We’re using CBD and we’re encapsulating in our liposomal format, which we have a patent around. So that will be great because then we can actually allow doctors to prescribe and say, if the studies go well, and we’re talking a couple of years now, “You can take this product for X condition.” That also gives it a little bit more legitimacy as well.   [0:59:20] Ashley James: What you’re saying is that you’re liposomal CBD, which is not synthetic, you’re working towards having it be a prescription which would be paid for then by their health insurance. It wouldn’t be a drug, it’s not synthetic. It’s still naturally-derived and yet it would be a prescription, which would be amazing and be very helpful especially for veterans, and servicemen, and women, the elderly who are on a fixed income, or the disabled who are on a fixed income. That it could be paid for by the insurance companies. The insurance companies would be happy because there’s so much evidence that good quality CBD, especially liposomal, helps people reduce their need for pain medications, which would actually save these companies money. These pain medications come with a host of side effects that then would cause the insurance companies to have to shell out more money. They’d be saving money by going the more natural route by paying for the prescription of liposomal CBD. That’s really exciting. When will we be able to access your liposomal CBD? When will we be able to buy some? Is there a date you have in mind for when it’ll be available to purchase?   [1:00:53] Jay Hartenbach: Yes. We will be launching it. One of the new lines that we’re launching is our Medterra Clinical Line. As a company, we’ve worked very closely with independent pharmacists across the country really since the beginning of Medterra. They’ve been a huge part of our business. We’ve actually developed what we call our Medterra Clinical Line. They are higher concentrations of our existing products as well as some new blends. That will be the first line to receive our liposomal products. We’re developing a sleep product that has liposomal CBD but also has life is only melatonin, which is also not very bioavailable. We can dramatically reduce the amount of melatonin that we’re putting in it because it is in a liposomal more bioavailable format, which is just better for you. Then we’re also doing a wellness liposomal product that will have turmeric and ginger in liposomal encapsulation, which turmeric as an example, has a very hard time being absorbed by the body. Those are launching in June—so this summer—in independent pharmacies. Then we’re going to be ultimately releasing those liposomal formats in the third quarter for just the entire company. People can buy that online as well. Really, really excited about it.   [1:02:16] Ashley James: Will you have a list of the independent pharmacies that we can drive to and pick up your liposomal products? Support the local companies or we just want to receive it faster, or do you have a list on your website?   [1:02:34] Jay Hartenbach: Absolutely. Yeah. We have a store locator. We’re actually updating the store locator now that we’ve got these different lines and products. You’ll be able to search on the store locator probably I’m going to say two weeks. I usually over-promise on website development.   [1:02:51] Ashley James: All your employees are at home so they should be even more productive.   [1:02:54] Jay Hartenbach: That’s true. That’s true. I will let them know that. In the next month or so you’ll be able to actually filter the store locator and say, “Hey, look. I’m looking for this specific, I live here and I want to buy this Medterra product.” They can validate if that store carries it. We work with—actually at this point—over 15,000 retailers throughout the US. Not all of them carry all of our products. It’s just helpful for consumers to figure out what they want. We love working with the retailers because online is great. It’s a great business. It’s important to us as a company, but a lot of people when they want their CBD they want it now. So being able to get it and access it at a retailer relatively quickly is important. We’re thrilled with our retail footprint that we’ve developed.   [1:03:48] Ashley James: Nice. You know what, if listeners want to stay at home and get the package shipped to them they’re going to get 15% off by using coupon code LTH. They can’t walk to the pharmacy and say, “Coupon code LTH please.” So they’re going to get 15% off, and they get to stay at home and chill—Netflix and chill—and wait for their CBD to arrive. Coupon code LTH, 15% off on your website Medterracbd.com or they can go to your website and check out the pharmacy near them so that they can go there. I’m so excited about the liposomal CBD. That sounds amazing. Your turmeric will it have black pepper in it to activate the turmeric?   [1:04:33] Jay Hartenbach: That’s the thing. It won’t because it’s in the liposomal format—the black pepper is really helpful in increasing absorption because it slows down the digestion, but because it’s actually being not absorbed through the stomach and it’s actually hydrophilic, you don’t need the black pepper for the turmeric to be very bioavailable in a liposome.   [1:04:54] Ashley James: That’s really cool. It helps people because there are some people that are really sensitive to black pepper. That’s going to be great for them.   [1:05:03] Jay Hartenbach: We’re really excited. I’ve got some prototypes, and it’s my favorite Medterra product, not to rub it in for anyone that can’t get it yet. I think people are going to be really excited about it.   [1:05:14] Ashley James: I’ve got episodes I published four years ago that people still listen to. For someone who may be listening to this in a few months and they’ll be like, “Okay, I’m just going to go to Medterracbd.com and buy my,” what’s it going to be called the turmeric CBD liposomal thing?   [1:05:32] Jay Hartenbach: We’ve got a working name right now, but we’re calling it our Wellness Capsule.   [1:05:38] Ashley James: I love it. I love it. Wellness capsule. That is so great for decreasing inflammation, that’s great for autoimmune, that’s great for, obviously, pain. Turmeric is anti-cancer. It mops up those free radicals. You said that there was turmeric in it and obviously liposomal CBD. What was the other thing that’s in it?   [1:06:05] Jay Hartenbach: Ginger.   [1:06:06] Ashley James: Ginger, that’s right. Wonderful. Oh, man. What a powerful combination. I love how herbs create—when you combine certain herbs it creates a synergy like 1 plus 1 equals 10. It creates a synergistic effect. They individually are good but combined they’re amazing. Ginger turmeric is amazing together. Really interesting to see how CBD and those two play off of each other while giving healing effects to the body. You’re not deficient in CBD so you don’t see this huge difference like some people do when they start taking it, because obviously, you take your products. Why do you love the liposomal wellness capsule, the liposomal ginger turmeric CBD? Why do you love that? What do you notice personally in your body?   [1:07:02] Jay Hartenbach: It’s a great question. One, I think it’s great because if you’re taking CBD as a liposome it makes it more bioavailable. You’re just going to get more bang for your buck with this CBD. That’s a preferred format if available, but the ginger and the turmeric, same thing. I used to take turmeric capsules separate of my Medterra products and ginger. So just having that all-in-one is great. Liposomes are a tough thing to manufacture. So when we first started, we’ve been working on this at this point probably for thirteen or fourteen months now. Liposomes, when you have things that are not very bioavailable, can be tough. Making a liposomal vitamin C is actually pretty straightforward. There’s a lot of it, but you’ve got something that’s incredibly hydrophilic. You put it right in the center of the liposome and you don’t have to kind of wedge it in between the phospholipid biolayer. You’re good to go. When you start mixing with ginger, which we use gingerall, which is the active form of the ginger or turmeric as an example it can start getting a little trickier. I noticed—and there’s maybe some placebo effect but I think I’ve got it pretty adjusted—that when I take it as a liposome there’s this mood elevation. If you read a little bit about turmeric as an example, it has been associated with just general feelings of well-being and can elevate your mood. One, I’d love it just because it’s ginger and turmeric. Those are very important they’re very good for your body and making it more bioavailable is just only going to enhance those effects. Taking care of also the daily CBD that I’m taking. In addition also getting this more uplift in mood, which everyone can stand to be a little bit happier. That’s why I like taking it.   [1:09:03] Ashley James: Everyone can stand to be a little happier right now. Come on, Jay. Come on, Jay. Launch it sooner. We need it now. Right now, we’re all freaking out isolated at home getting bored and anxious. If we could choose one of your products, what would be the best one to choose right now to help us calm down?   [1:09:33] Jay Hartenbach: The Broad Spectrum Tincture and the best flavor, in my opinion, is the citrus flavor. So we’ve got a broad spectrum both 1000 and 2000 milligram concentrations. The 2000 milligram, obviously, has more CBD but also has more of those minor cannabinoids. We’ve got a lot of people that have said that it’s been very helpful with their stress relief. That’s just giving credit to these other cannabinoids that also are playing their part on the body.   [1:10:08] Ashley James: Okay. So we get the 2000. We got one bottle of the 2000 milligram Broad Spectrum, citrus flavor. We get it in the mail sanitized—you guys are great. Then how much do we take? Is it a few drops? Is it one dropper full? How much would we take throughout the day? Is it one dose a day? Is it throughout the day? How do we go about taking this? Let’s say it’s a person of average weight. Does weight matter like a 400-pound person versus a 90-pound person?                                                          [1:10:40] Jay Hartenbach: It’s one of those things that we were just saying where it really depends on just the state of your body. We’ve seen people that are 250-pound man only needs 25 milligrams of CBD. You’ve got 140-pound woman that may need twice as much. So my recommendation on it is starting with half a serving, so half an ml, half of the dropper. Take it in the morning, and just see how you feel. The other cannabinoids, they do seem to have some of a neurological effect as well. The one—I should say not to complain but just what people have said is that it does help them feel very relaxed. Depending on what your day looks like maybe feeling too relaxed is not what you need. Starting with half of it and seeing how your body reacts to it. Then maybe taking the other half at night. Just trying that for the first couple of days and then going from there. Some people take it as needed.   [1:11:44] Ashley James: A lot of us are stuck at home with our kids that we love dearly that are driving us up the wall. We really don’t need to start drinking wine at 9:00 in the morning, which a lot of people are sharing pictures of their alcoholic drinks on Facebook. My friend is stuck. He’s a psychologist or a psychiatrist. He and I were best friends in junior high. He lives in a condo in Toronto. He’s isolated at his condo so he started to make—it’s the best, it’s so hilarious—exercise videos with wine bottles. His pictures or videos of clips of him throughout his condo doing squats and bicep curls with wine bottles. Then other people have joined him. There’s just this group of people that are all doing the wine workouts. They’re just lifting wine. They’re not like working out drinking the wine. Just making fun of the fact that everyone is freaking out. I saw someone posted a in a homeschooling group. “It’s 10:00 AM. Can I pop the bottle of wine now?” People are just freaking out especially if they’ve never homeschooled before. We’ve been homeschooling our son, who’s almost 5. It can get very stressful, so I can imagine if families have multiple children. They’re looking to just calm their nerves. This sounds great. So the Full Spectrum citrus flavor sounds like a great way to calm the nerves. I would say get the 2000 milligrams tincture because you don’t know if you need the more concentrated, the less concentrated. If you get the stronger one then you can always just take less of it. If you get the weaker one, you might run out sooner if you needed a stronger dose. Does that sound like a good recommendation?   [1:13:39] Jay Hartenbach: Totally. You do get a better bang for your buck. Even if you only need half it’ll last you longer, but it’ll also just be a better value for your spend.   [1:13:55] Ashley James: Nice, nice. Okay. Cool. Use coupon code LTH, get 15% off. So Full Spectrum 2000 milligram citrus flavor. Let’s all go buy that so we can calm down a bit. Take half of a dropper in the morning and see how we fare. Do we hold it in our mouth for a few minutes and then swallow, or can we swallow right away? What’s the way to maximize absorption? Should we do it on an empty stomach or with food?   [1:14:26] Jay Hartenbach: I know there’s been a lot of back and forth on that. Is it sublingual? We haven’t seen too many studies that have actually confirmed in an oil format that it’s able to penetrate in the mouth. I always wash it around my mouth for 10-15 seconds, but ultimately swallow it. We do recommend that people take it with some food because if you do have some food in your stomach it just helps it get to the liver and that will speed up. People have seen a lot of results taking on an empty stomach. It’s pretty resilient once consumed.   [1:15:08] Ashley James: Because it’s an oil format, if someone doesn’t have their gallbladder, for example, they should take it with some food and they should take a bile supplement to make sure they’re actually emulsifying it so that they can to digest and absorb it.   [1:15:24] Jay Hartenbach: Great point.   [1:15:26] Ashley James: There are some people who just—because they don’t have a gallbladder—cannot. They don’t have the ability to emulsify fat so they’re not really going to absorb the medicine. Those people would really benefit from the liposomal CBD, wouldn’t they?   [1:15:41] Jay Hartenbach: They would. Yeah. Absolutely. It doesn’t need to be processed in the liver, and it doesn’t need to be in an oil suspension.   [1:15:50] Ashley James: I’m really looking forward to that product coming out. Can’t wait for it. Awesome. Well, thank you, Jay, so much for coming on the show and sharing with us the latest. When I knew that the episode 420 was coming up I said, “Oh, man. Got to have Jay back on the show.” I’m only going to do episode 420 once and it needs to be one about hemp cannabis. It needs to be one of that. Obviously, everyone knows 420 and what that means. I was so happy that you were isolated at home and had nothing better to do than to be on my show. That was great.   [1:16:29] Jay Hartenbach: I just love that you thought of me for 420. I really do appreciate that.   [1:16:33] Ashley James: Yeah. You were the first thing that came to my mind. I’ve had other cannabis and hemp peep experts, but you probably are the funnest. Also just so interesting the fact that you’re so involved in the science, and in the industry, and in the latest coming out of the industry. That you’ve been in the cutting edge of how to create a full spectrum that is also void of THC is amazing. That your company is in the light. That you function in the light. That you show everyone that you are a company for good, and for light, and that you are not one of those shady companies that works in their garage and claims that they cure everything. You’re involved in the political side, the science side, the industry side, the production, side, the farming side. You have your fingers in everything, but you also are navigating this crazy, crazy world of Covid-19 with your company doing it in the best way possible. Supporting your employees through this time. Everyone’s working from home, and your fulfillment staff is able to take a paid vacation, staycation. You’re able to keep the lights on because you’ve navigated this and figured out how to still fulfill the orders in a sanitized way to protect the customers. Really, I just love your company. I love the work that you do, and I love that you’re functioning in the light and for good. Thank you so much for the mission that you set out. If only a few years ago—when was it 2016—that you formed Medterra CBD?   [1:18:15] Jay Hartenbach: 2017.   [1:18:17] Ashley James: 2017. Oh, yeah. It was 2016 that you first started the conversation. It takes more than a year to get it all up and running. You’ve been functioning, you’ve been doing this for a few years, but you basically now earned your Ph.D. in CBD at this point. So congratulations. You now are a full-fledged Ph.D. in the school of hard knocks, you’ve earned it. It’s been great having you on the show. Thank you so much. I love your products. My husband and I have really enjoyed your CBD. We’ve tried many others. We really get the quality is there. We really appreciate that. Of course, my listeners have told me that they really enjoy your products as well. I’m happy that you give us a 15% off discount. Thank you. Coupon code LTH. You talked about your conference calls having the dogs in the background. Well, I didn’t realize that my cat was locked in our office. He’s meowing. Your dog barked, my cat meowed. We’re clearly all at home under quarantine. It’s been so great having you on the show. Thank you so much. Is there anything you’d like to make sure that you say to wrap up today’s interview? Is there anything left unsaid?   [1:19:42] Jay Hartenbach: No. I think we covered it all. Ashley, I really do appreciate the kind words. It means a lot coming from someone like yourself.   [1:19:51] Ashley James: Awesome. Well, Jay, can you just come back on the show every year and a half or so and update us on the latest in the industry? Or if something big comes out, some big science, something major in the industry that you really want to make sure we know about, please come back on the show. I love to keep all of us, all of the listeners—and myself included—up-to-date on all the really cool information about the CBD industry. Keep coming back. We’d love to have you. Stay safe, stay sane. You were just talking about how you’ve been hiking because there’s a hiking trail right behind your house, but you, of course, stay a safe distance to respect everyone and everyone’s health. You are getting out in nature. If you can, everyone get out in nature as long as you’re safe and everyone else is safe. Get out in the sunlight. Get out in the open air. Yes, we have a stay-at-home order. That doesn’t mean you can’t go in your backyard and get some sunlight on your face. We should all remember that for our sanity. We need to take deep breaths. We need to do things to calm our nervous system like taking CBD or putting our feet in the grass and our face in the sun and taking some deep breaths. We’re all going to get through this, and we’re all going to do it as a globe, as a whole. The whole earth, we’re all going to get through this together. The more that we focus on self-care to boost our immune system and support our health overall our mental, emotional, and physical health overall. W­­­e will get through this in the healthiest way possible. We need to focus on that. You’ve brought up some great, great, great ways we can do that today. Thank you so much, Jay. Just stay safe and keep in touch.   [1:21:42] Jay Hartenbach: Absolutely. Will do, Ashley. Thank you so much.   [1:21:45] Outro: Are you in to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Takeyoursupplements.com. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.   Get Connected With Jay Hartenbach: Official Website Facebook Instagram Twitter Recommended links: GenCanna Hemp Supporter  

IT'S HERE! Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen Use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! Check out IIN and get a free module: LearnTrueHealth.com/coaching Join the Facebook group: LearnTrueHealth.com/group www.realimmunity.org Homeoprophylaxis Programs 3 Films -- Quest for Real Immunity; Passage to Real Immunity; Choosing real Immunity My latest book: There is a Choice: Homeoprophylaxis HP for Influenza including Covid19   Homeopathy Treatment for Coronavirus https://www.learntruehealth.com/homeopathy-treatment-for-coronavirus   Highlights: Importance of awareness and exercising awareness What terrain is What susceptibility is Why some people get sick when around germs while some don’t Homeoprophylaxis Genus epidemicus Trust your intuition and get away from fear   Everybody from around the world is experiencing some form of fear and anxiety over the coronavirus. Dr. Cilla Whatcott is back on the show with us. She talks about different ways on how we can prevent or deal with the coronavirus by using homeopathy, homeoprophylaxis, and the importance of “trusting your intuition and getting away from fear.” Intro: Hello, true health seekers and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I have interviewed Dr. Cilla Whatcott several times. Please go to learntruehealth.com and type in Dr. Cilla Whatcott. Check out all the other episodes that I have done with her. You can also go in the show notes of this episode for the links to my interviews with Dr. Cilla Whatcott on using homeopathy, and homeoprophylaxis, and past discussions on real immunity and creating a very healthy immune response towards all illnesses. Today specifically, we are focusing on Covid-19. We’re focusing on the coronavirus. I’m very excited that she has some wonderful up-to-date information to bring you. Dr. Cilla Whatcott is connected with a network of top homeopathic practitioners around the world who are treating people that currently are experiencing Covid-19. They have the coronavirus, they’re experiencing it, and they’re successfully moving through the symptoms back into health using homeopathy. This episode is primarily about that. If you’d like to learn how to increase the terrain of your body—it’s all about the terrain supporting your body and being the healthiest possible—please, go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. That’s learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. That’s the Learn True Health membership. You learn how to use food as medicine, how to nutrify your body, and we also teach you some amazing other stuff as well. All about helping the terrain of the body to be as absolutely healthy as possible at all times for all ages and using food in a way that supports everyone. The kids love it. The recipes, we had to adapt them so the kids will like it. So please, go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. Learntruehealth.com/homekitchen. If you’re stuck at home and you’re wondering what to watch, go there, go watch our videos. We have over seven hours now. Every week we’re adding more great content. Go to learntruehealth.com/homekitchen and check it out. Excellent. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Enjoy this episode and the rest of your day.   [0:02:25] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 419. I am so excited to have back on the show Dr. Cilla Whatcott, Ph.D. in Homeopathy. Her specialty is homeoprophylaxis. Cilla has been on the podcast several times. All of our episodes will be linked in the show notes. You can go back and listen and learn about homeoprophylaxis, and homeopathy, and how it can be used. The closest way I can describe it is like a vaccine in that it trains the immune system to mount a response. You’re the expert. We were talking earlier and I found out that you have some amazing information about Covid-19, about the coronavirus, and how we can support our immune system in this very chaotic time. Welcome back to the show.   [0:03:30] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Thank You, Ashley. It’s great to be here. I appreciate you having me.   [0:03:34] Ashley James: Absolutely. I heard that you hosted a webinar and it sold out. It was max capacity. Huge webinar where you were teaching people what we can do to train our immune system to mount a healthy response. I said, “Oh my gosh. You have to come on the show and teach us everything.”   [0:03:54] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Thank you. Yeah, I had a webinar. There were 900 people registered, and it was free. Now it’s available for $1 only, and that’s available on realimmunity.org. Right on the homepage, you can click on that and access that webinar and see the recording.   [0:04:12] Ashley James: Awesome. Very cool. I’d love for you to teach us today some things so that we can bring down the fear levels. Right now, fear is our enemy. Fear lowers the immune system. When we’re in a state of panic, and fear, and anxiety—even if you don’t think you are—you might realize that maybe you’re having trouble sleeping, maybe you have racing thoughts, or worrying, which is normal in being in a state of chaos that we’re in at the moment. In that state of fear, our body is in the fight-or-flight response, the nervous system’s response for survival. That shunts blood away from the logic centers of the brain. When that happens, we can’t think clearly, but it also weakens our immune response if we are in the state long-term. The best thing we can do is get out of fight-or-flight so we can get full access to the logic centers of our brain, so we can think clearly and make better decisions for our survival. Also, support our body to be in a state of healing and balance so that we are the healthiest we could possibly be. I know that some information that Cilla is going to share with us today will help us to calm and ease that panic. Information is power and arming ourselves with what we can do with natural medicine to support our body’s ability to be healthy and stay healthy is what’s going to help us to decrease to that panic, and to regain a foothold, feel a sense of control again. Cilla, what do you have to share with us that is so profound? I’m just very, very excited. I can hardly contain it. What do you have to share with us that is so exciting about homeoprophylaxis and homeopathy in response to the coronavirus?   [0:06:15] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: First, I want to start, Ashley, with just drawing an analogy. If we look at our immune system and we understand that each time we catch a mild virus it exercises and educates our immune system. We build specific immunity—antibodies—to that particular virus. We overcome it. That real health is not never getting sick, but it’s the ability to be adaptable and get well to mount that immune response. What happens is we bump up against a virus, we contract it, our immune system goes into gear by creating those natural antibodies: a fever, a sweat, an eruption, and resolution, and then we’ve built immunity. Fear, let’s look at it in a similar way. If everything is energy and what happened initially in Wuhan created tremendous fear, anxiety, fear for life, fear for well-being, fear for being isolated, losing income, losing family members, tremendous fear. An energy of frequency of fear was generated. That frequency dissipates around the world. We bump up against it. Throughout our day we hear something, we see something, we read something, and we bump up against that frequency of fear because it’s been generated. It’s no different than bumping up against a virus. When we bump up against it, if we can then recognize that—okay, acknowledge it, observe it, this is what’s happened: I read a report, I feel my heart rate go up, I feel myself go into that fear mode, and then what do I need to do to calm that? Do I need to get a drink of water? Do I need to go to a yoga class? Do I need to—whatever it is—hug my dog? Whatever you can do in the moment—keeping yourself in the moment—brings you back to your base point. It’s identical to this process of bumping up against the virus, raising an immune response, regulating your system, resolving the immune response, and boom you’ve exercised, and gained an education towards that virus. You’ve enlarged yourself so to speak. Same thing with the fear. We bump up against it in one of many ways. We acknowledge it, we observe it, we do what we need to do to move back from it, and we’re ascending our own frequency. We’re bringing our own frequency up so that we will not be sucked in and pulled down with the fear. Does that make sense?   [0:09:18] Ashley James: Yes. We can do yoga classes at home. Just because some of us are quarantined. We can turn on the TV and there’s YouTube. There are plenty of yoga classes. I like to just grab an essential oil and take a few deep breaths with it. That really brings me back to now, calms me down, gets me out of that fear response.   [0:09:40] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Yeah. It doesn’t have to be an hour class. It can be petting your cat, it can be reading a book. The important part of that process is the awareness. Just be aware and observe yourself, “Oh, I heard the news and then I started getting frightened” That awareness alone is enough to start to educate, and ascend your own frequency, and pull yourself back. Then it’s easy to find some little something. For me, I can empty the dishwasher and it brings me back to reality. Do some tasks around the house or look out the back window. It’s simple. It doesn’t have to be long, and involved, or expensive, or arduous. It’s just shifting your attention.   [0:10:28] Ashley James: Wonderful. Yeah. Taking those few deep breaths and then becoming aware that this is my body, this is what I’m feeling, this is my body’s reaction to the news I just got. Because the mind, when we’re seeing the news—I woke up and I checked a text message from a friend and he sent me an article that was really disturbing about the financial predictions by economists about what’s going to happen. It was all doom and gloom. I could feel my body going into the stress response. I could feel my stomach tighten, almost like nausea. I could feel my body just going into almost like a pre-panic attack, but I felt it every step of the way. I’m like, “Okay,” and like you said, become the observer. I am observing my body responding to this crisis because when we’re reading an article, the mind is imagining, “What does this mean to me and my life? What does this mean to my family?” Our mind, in a split second, is imagining us homeless and having lost everything. In that moment, the body—because the body is always listening to the mind—perceives that as a threat that’s currently happening. The body goes, “There’s an immediate threat to my survival, I need to go into fight or flight mode. I need to go into the sympathetic nervous system response to survive this immediate threat.” All I’m doing is reading an article, but my body is mounting a response like I’m in a war zone right now. I love that you said that do something when you notice the sensations in your body because stress isn’t an emotion, but we see the results of stress like elevated heart, or nausea, or sweating palms, or feeling dizzy, or almost like hyperventilation. Sometimes you feel a sensation in your neck like high blood pressure. Just notice what sensations you have in your body. Tunnel vision’s another one. If you can’t see your periphery you can only see tunnel vision. That’s another one. You catch yourself and you go, “Okay, my body is giving in to fear and mounting a stress response because it thinks we’re under attack right now. I need to do a few things to tell my body that we’re actually safe in this moment.” That taking a few breaths, like you said, doing some chores, looking out the back window. For me, it’s breathing some essential oils, and taking a few deep breaths, and visualizing.  Whatever we visualize in our mind our body sees, our body responds to. If you visualize yourself safe and your family is safe, your body goes, “Oh, okay. Everything’s safe,” because the body is always listening to what we’re imagining in our mind. That’s why the body cannot tell the difference between what’s perceived or what’s imagined and what’s real.  That’s why our body will freak out when we’re watching a zombie movie even though we’re totally safe. It’s fun to watch those scary movies. Our body is going through all the stress responses as though it’s real, but it’s not. So it’s fun because, “I’m safe but I’m feeling like I’m under attack by zombies. This is kind of fun.” Some people like that, and that’s the exact proof. The body doesn’t know the difference between what’s imagined and what’s real. Every time we see something on the news we’re imagining negative things happening or the impact of that to our own lives like loved ones dying or us getting sick. Then our body goes, “Oh my gosh. This is actually a problem that we’re facing right now. I need to mount a response.” That’s when we lose access to the logic centers of our brain because we go into the fight-or-flight response.  I love that you say the number one thing we can do right now, the first thing we can do is always catch ourselves. It might be 20 times a day, but catch yourself when you’re stress response, the sympathetic nervous system response, and do what you can. Whether it’s yoga, deep breathing, cuddling your children, hugging your cat, whatever. Do what you can 20 times a day or putting on a funny Youtube video, laughing for a few minutes to get your body out of that stress response, and imagining your family is safe, you’re safe. Imagining in your mind. That also helps us send that signal to your body that we’re safe, and that your body then gets out of the stress response.   [0:15:10] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Ashley, the most important part is the exercise. Just like the more you get a virus and mount an immune response, you’re building the strength of your immune system by exercising. Same thing with this, the more times you notice it and pull away from that fear response the more adept you’ll become at doing it. That’s what raises your frequency. It’s the repetitive action of doing it again and again that raises your own frequency.   [0:15:43] Ashley James: Right. I’ve talked to a man who’s very high up in terms of personal growth and development. Dedicated his entire life to teaching it. He’s dedicated his entire life to working on himself. It was hard to not put those people on a pedestal and think they’re somehow better more evolved than us. He said that he gets angry, that he gets triggered, that he gets in stress response. He says, “You don’t get to this point where you’re not going to do it because it’s part of being human. It’s how quickly you get out of it.” He might get really angry like someone cut him off in traffic or whatever, and then he catches himself and he does the exercise. He gets himself out of stress response. It’s the speed at which we do it.   [0:16:38] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: And the way to increase that speed is by doing it again and again and again. That’s how we increase the speed of it. Here it comes again and then try to adjust. I had an experience just the other day, something threw me way off balance. It took me quite a while to come back to my own center, but I observed the whole time, and then took steps. What am I going to do next time? How will I not get thrown off when this happens next time? It’s all about awareness, that’s all. Exercise that awareness muscle.   [0:17:13] Ashley James: You said, you learned from the last experience. “Okay. This threw me off. What things can I put in place?” I have my essential oils right by my desk. I have them throughout the house because, for me, it’s the quickest way to turn off the stress response. Utilizing several of your senses so inhaling, breathing, feeling, and also smelling that helps to bring you back. For me, that’s a good one. I have my husband and our son. Hugs and cuddles also help and talking it out with my husband. He’s very supportive of getting out of fear and back to what’s good about this. That’s something I learned from Tony Robbins is to ask yourself what’s good about this? Even in negative situations, what’s good about this? I’m like, “Okay. What’s good about being quarantined?” Because right now we’re coming into a time of mandatory quarantine. After I list it off—what’s good about this—I started looking forward to it like, “Man, we’re going to get the shed cleaned out.” We’ve been meaning to do that for a while. We’re going to do our spring cleaning. It’s just this whole list of things that we’ve been meaning to do working on the garden. We’ve got a big vegetable garden going. We’re going to make the best of it, but we ask ourselves what’s good about this? That also turns off the stress response because now I’m imagining all these positive things. My body goes, “Oh, we’re not under siege? Okay, great. We can go back into healing mode.   [0:18:53] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: That’s your immunity. Right. Right. Exactly.   [0:18:55] Ashley James: Last time we had you on the show you shared this ongoing story of how you battled cancer and you got it under control. How have you been since? You’ve been challenged. We’ve all been challenged with the fear that’s going on in the world. How has your health been since I last had you on the show?   [0:19:22] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: I’m not sure when it was we last talked, was it August? Six months ago? I’m not sure. I’m in remission, stronger, better than I’ve been. I have to say, Ashley, it was the biggest gift I could have gotten, honestly, because it was a wake-up call for me. I put some things in place. I became more aware. Truly, it’s helped me to make changes in my life that were necessary. I view it as a blessing. I’m grateful. I’m really grateful. I had to come to terms with death in certain ways. I had to look at my diet, my exercise, my busyness level, my stress level, my relationships. I had to examine all of that, and what better thing to do than put all those things under a microscope and make changes that are necessary.  I’ve adapted a meditation practice that is very effective, a yoga practice, weight training, exercising more. My diet was pretty good. It didn’t need a lot of adjustment, but I’m always tweaking my diet. That too has been impacted and just my ability to create boundaries because I just couldn’t stop helping people. I never ever said no. It could be 11:00 at night, it could be anytime. I couldn’t say no because my empathy for my clients was huge. I just reached a point—just before my diagnosis—when I felt like I can’t hold up the sorrow and suffering in this world anymore. That’s how responsible I felt. I let go of that. I reframed my perspective to understand that whatever we come into this world with, whether it’s poverty, or pain, or relationship issues, or whatever it is that’s our “cancer.” I have to honor other people. I can be here and offer what I have, but I can’t fix anybody else. Whether I answer the phone at 11:00 at night or wait until 9:00 the next morning, that’s not what’s important because it’s theirs. I have to honor and respect that it’s theirs to deal with. I can make my boundaries and still be helpful in that relationship with them. I came to a deeper understanding of that so that I’m a lot healthier in how I execute my own practice. It’s good. Boundaries are a thing—it’s just like the exercise program, it’s just like the virus, it’s just like the fear. I got to rein it in. It starts to loosen up, and I feel it. I feel the warning signs, and then I rein it back in, and then it loosens up, and I rein it back in. It gets easier. All those changes have been made. I’m in remission. I’m happy. My plan is to return to Mexico. I actually canceled my trip this week. I would have been there now for a tune-up. They do a full-body ultrasound, they do tons of blood work, they have hyperbaric chamber, they have vitamin IVs. All different natural immune-boosting things all in one place in a loving environment. I want to be able to go back there at least once a year and get a checkup, and a tune-up, and be doing that. So that’s the plan.   [0:23:16] Ashley James: The center you worked with is hopefourcancer.com, is that it?   [0:23:22] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Correct. It’s the number four, Hope Four Cancer.   [0:23:26] Ashley James: Yeah. I’ve heard great things from you, and I’ve heard great things from other people. It’s always good to share those resources. You, for many years, have been an expert in the immune system from a homeopathy standpoint. Then you really doubled down on your education around the immune system when you had to heal your body from cancer. Because cancer is an immune issue, so you’ve really been focusing on the immune system from a very different standpoint than modern medicine. We have to be very careful to say that we’re not saying we’re here to cure anything. The body does its own healing. I’m not here to tell you a cure or Cilla is not going to tell you a cure, but the body is the one that cures. The body is the one that heals itself. We can tell you information to support your body in doing the best job it can.   [0:24:32] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Right. It’s all about the terrain. It’s the terrain. It’s not the germ, it’s not the disease, it’s the terrain.   [0:24:40] Ashley James: Can you explain that for people who’ve never heard it before?   [0:24:43] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Germ theory says that we get sick because there’s a germ, and it touches us, and that makes us sick, but that doesn’t account for why some people can be in the room with the germ, and they don’t get sick. Other people are in the same room with the germ, and they do get sick. What we know as homeopaths is there’s such a thing as susceptibility.  Susceptibility is our predisposition to getting that germ to catching, to that germ. Our susceptibility is based on our diet, our sleep, our emotional state, our relationships, our ancestry. Many, many components comprise our susceptibility. The susceptibility is expressed throughout the body at a cellular level. That’s our terrain. It’s the gut biome. It’s the blood. It’s all of our body. There’s something called dark field microscopy that looks at a drop of blood and can see lots of facts about the terrain. I had this done three times during my process. Literally, there are some people doing it—well, I shouldn’t say some. I’d say anyone doing it can see these holographic images in the blood.  For myself—when I first had it done right after my diagnosis—I had in hand a mammogram and an ultrasound with pictures of the tumor. It was odd-shaped almost like a sword. It was sharp. It was long and odd-shaped. When I did the dark field microscopy, there it was a hologram in my blood. The identical shape, identical. It was bizarre. Six months later, after doing all the treatments in Mexico, I had it done again. It was gone from my blood. I could still feel it, but it was no longer being represented in my blood.   [0:27:01] Ashley James: When you say you could still feel it you mean the tumor was still present in your breast?   [0:27:05] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Correct. Correct.   [0:27:06] Ashley James: But the holographic image was no longer in your dark field microscopy?   [0:27:11] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Microscopy. The person doing it for me said, “If you want to have it removed this an ideal time because there’s no fear of spreading. You’re not going to open up and spread it.” Because this is what happens sometimes with surgery when you pierce the area. That was her advice. It had been about nine months at that point since my diagnosis. It was fairly aggressive. It had a 40% proliferation rate, and it hadn’t grown. I’d held it at bay, which was a win. I had about five people close to me that died during that time. Some of them from cancer, some of them from other methods. It wears on your mind. Every time, I just wanted to not feel it there anymore. I wanted it gone. I opted, at that point, to have a mastectomy.   [0:28:13] Ashley James: I think that was the smartest move possible because you did all this natural medicine for nine months and proved that you could stop the growth of it. It didn’t, like you said, proliferate, it didn’t metastasize, but you stopped the growth of it, of something that is a rapid-growing tumor with all the natural medicine. Supporting your body’s ability to keep it at bay. Then you had it removed. Since then, you’re free and clear and you still practice everything that you learned from the cancer to support the terrain of your body. Was it Louis Pasteur who talked about the terrain of the body?   [0:28:58] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: On his deathbed, he said it’s not the germ it’s the terrain. He recanted because he had discovered—he had talked about germs. It was on his deathbed that he said that definitely.   [0:29:10] Ashley James: It’s more about the health of the individual because, like you said, we can all be in the same room with a virus and not everyone gets it. Some people are asymptomatic, some people have it in their body but completely asymptomatic, some people die from it, some people have minor symptoms, and some people have major symptoms. Why is that? It’s not because they’re old. There are young people too that are having the symptoms. What is it? There have been older people who have completely survived. There are older people who have not had any symptoms at all. The question is what is it? Why is it that some people get it some and some people don’t? One thing that’s very interesting—that’s come out of China and South Korea—is that the malaria drug in conjunction with zinc, because the malaria drug forces zinc into the cell. The cell up takes more zinc. The zinc interrupts the cell from making the RNA for the virus. It interrupts some way that the virus is asking the cell or hijacking the cell to make RNA for it.  I talked to some people about this, some health professionals about this. It’s very interesting because zinc is—someone’s healthy and if they have healthy zinc levels, then zinc is present in their cells. This comes back to the terrain of the body. If someone has their nutrient tank is full of the 90 essential nutrients, the nutrient tank is full of all the minerals all the vitamins that their body needs in the right amounts—including zinc—then what they’re seeing is that if there’s enough zinc in the cell, the cell will not make the RNA for the virus. Maybe that could explain why some people don’t get the virus. They could be carriers. They could just have it in their body, but they’re not reproducing it. They’re not having symptoms of it because the terrain of their body was healthy. You said it was more than just nutrient levels. It can be stress levels, it could be genetics. There are so many factors.   [0:31:44] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Influencing it. Let’s take it one step farther. Let’s say your nutrient tank is full—as you have described. You come in contact with that particular virus or any virus. Your body sees it, but it does not get ill. It doesn’t contract it and get ill. What’s happened now? Your body has become familiarized with it because it’s bumped up against it.  This is similar to the principle behind homeoprophylaxis. Because with homeoprophylaxis, we’re exposing the body to the frequency of a disease, but it’s a safe frequency. It’s not material. If your terrain isn’t 100%, and your nutrient tank isn’t full, you are not at risk because this is a frequency. It’s not the material disease. Then you become familiarized with it. We’re giving it in that energetic form, in the HP, and then if you meet it in nature—because you’re familiar with it—you have a better chance of mounting an actual immune response or repelling it. I have to say upfront, no method is 100% effective, nothing. Not a vaccine, not a medical intervention, not homeoprophylaxis, nothing’s 100%. We have to accept that to start, but certainly, something that’s safe and has been shown to be effective by the track record for over 200 years is a great option which is why I promote homeoprophylaxis.   [0:33:26] Ashley James: There are no side effects. It’s safe for all ages, right?   [0:33:32] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: It’s safe for all genders, all ages, all species. In third-world countries, they can put it into the water supply for livestock. It can be used with other interventions. If you want to use other interventions at the same time that’s fine. There’s no cold chain required so you can distribute it very quickly. It’s inexpensive. You don’t need medically-licensed people because it’s not injections. They’re pellets so you can train people quickly. Nothing could be more ideal for third-world countries. You can quickly distribute it. In Cuba, 2010 swine flu epidemic, they distributed their HP to 9 million people. They never had a swine flu epidemic there. It didn’t touch Cuba.   [0:34:24] Ashley James: I was just telling one of my guests, he is traveling to Africa to do some research with some tribes there. I said, “You know, you should look into homeoprophylaxis since you’re going to go there. You’re probably going to get a bunch of vaccines, but hey you should check out homeoprophylaxis because it’s been proven to be very effective especially in travel in the third-world countries.” I’m not sure if we’re supposed to call it that anymore, but tropical countries where there are different diseases.   [0:35:07] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Tropical diseases.   [0:35:07] Ashley James: Tropical diseases, thank you.   [0:35:09] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Dengue fever, typhoid, common malaria. Those are some of the big ones.   [0:35:12] Ashley James: Right, right. He had never heard of it. I started telling him about what you said about Cuba. He goes, “Did you know I’m Cuban, and I had no idea.” He goes, “Yeah. I’m very interested in this.” I sent him the studies, and he was amazed.   [0:35:31] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Did you send him the leptospirosis study? The one that was done in Cuba that’s been written up?   [0:35:36] Ashley James: Yes. For those who haven’t heard it, can you explain that here right now?   [0:35:42] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Sure. The leptospirosis study—and this can be found in my free knowledge vault. If you go to familyhomeopathycare.com, click on courses. Within those paid courses there’s a free knowledge vault. You just sign up for the knowledge vault. You can go in, you can download whatever you want. The lepto study is there.  2007-2008 they had multiple hurricanes come through Cuba. They typically vaccinate the entire population against leptospirosis before hurricane season. Because they had multiple hurricanes they could not roll out and distribute these vaccines. They decided to try homeoprophylaxis. They have an institute there called the Finlay Institute and their research and development for vaccines. They distribute vaccines around the world. They have a natural department that was headed up. Within that department, they created this leptospirosis nosode that was for prevention. They distributed it to 2.3 million people in one region that they knew was going to be hit particularly hard that year based on charting prior years. The first year it came down, but it came down in some other regions. So they thought, “Well, maybe it’s just down everywhere.” The following year they continued to dose the HP. The following year it flatlined to zero, and it went up everywhere else. That was their proof. It was written up. It’s a PubMed study. That’s inside the knowledge vault for people to see.  They have very little problem there now. That’s the last I heard. Dr. Isaac Golden, who’s the world’s leading authority with homeoprophylaxis, spent about 10 years there going back and forth between Australia and Cuba, collecting data, writing it up, and doing these interventions with the doctors at the Finlay Institute. Swine flu was one of them. During this particular epidemic, we’re going into now, I consulted with Dr. Golden. He felt that the best HP would be a combination of influenza A, influenza B, bacillinum, which is from tuberculosis, and pneumococcal. That would cover the symptom picture. Because in homeopathy, we use the law of similars. We use things that are similar to the symptoms being expressed by the disease. That’s the homeoprophylaxis that I feel confident using. That being said, there are many very renowned homeopaths around the globe who are recommending other things for prophylaxis. The Indian government is recommending the homeopathic arsenicum weekly. There’s a doctor by the name of Rajan Sankaran in India who’s well-respected. He’s recommending camphora. There are people out there that are recommending different things. There’s no one right thing. The choice has to be the individual’s choice based on their feelings of security. For myself, I respect Dr. Golden, and that’s the advice that I’m going to follow, and that’s the product that I’m actually offering to people because something very close to that was used for the swine flu. It makes sense the way that he’s developed it. I’ve also heard of just the actual nosode. Nosode being something from the disease products: sputum, saliva. A remedy is made from that as a prophylactic. That may very well be helpful as well. I don’t know. Isaac didn’t comment on that. He said he doesn’t know where that was procured from. He also questioned just a pure nosode because he had seen effective action when there was a combination of similars. That’s why he recommended what he did. That’s what I’m going with.   [0:40:20] Ashley James: For those who are just learning about homeoprophylaxis for the first time—I definitely recommend going back and listening to our other interviews with Dr. Cilla Whatcott—tell us a little bit about the history of homeoprophylaxis in India, and why the Indian government recommends homeopathy and homeoprophylaxis?   [0:40:46] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Indians are forerunners with homeopathy. They’re homeopaths go through four years of medical school. They operated in the hospitals. They’re well-respected. They really utilize homeopathy because it’s such an inexpensive form of medicine, and they can get it out to all the people in the rural areas. It’s easily distributed for all the reasons I mentioned earlier. Their government actually supports the use of homeopathy.  During epidemics, they will put out public signs saying gather such-and-such place to receive your homeoprophylaxis. They have a boat that’s like a pharmacy—a floating homeopathic pharmacy that goes into the backwaters. Places where people can’t get out and get to the cities. They distribute different remedies or homeoprophylaxis. In my second film called Passage to Real Immunity, I’ve interviewed one of the Indian docs about using homeoprophylaxis in India. It’s done. It’s used. It’s successful. They’ve done a large intervention with Japanese encephalitis that was very successful, dengue fever, chickenpox, chikungunya, lots of tropical diseases. They do use it.  They actually apply resources to experimentation to see what’s the best prophylactic prescription for this particular disease. They came out with their suggestion for arsenicum very early in this process. Early in the epidemic, the anxiety level was huge. This frequency of fear that we talked about. Arsenicum is very, very popular for addressing that. Perhaps—I’m just speculating here—perhaps by addressing that fear it brings it down to a level where the immune system can deal with the virus better. That may be a good intervention in that regard, but all epidemics are dynamic. Viruses are dynamic. They don’t stay exactly the same.  Over time, they’re going to morph, they’re going to shift. What homeopaths have done for generations is something called identifying the genus epidemicus. What that is identifying a number of cases—the more the better—seeing what the common symptoms are amongst those cases, seeing which remedies best address those symptoms, and they may come up with four, six, eight different remedies, and then they consult with other homeopaths around the world.  We’re networked. We all know that these remedies A, B, C, D, E are the ones that are treating the current symptom picture. If we get patients with the epidemic disease, we know we can use one of those remedies. We’re differentiating between one of those remedies. This is what was done with the Spanish flu. So 1918 Spanish flu, the mortality rate for conventional medicine was about 30%. With homeopathy, it was 1% who got it—   [0:44:19] Ashley James: So 30% of people—sorry. I want to just slow that down because this is so important. Back 100 years ago, there were hospitals that were dedicated to homeopathy.   [0:44:35] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Correct.   [0:44:37] Ashley James: We had—in some ways—access to natural medicine more so over 100 years ago than we do today because there was more freedom. Because the allopathic medical system hadn’t pushed everyone out.  There were hospitals. You could go to a hospital for allopathic medicine and take their pharmaceutical-based drug medicine, or you could go to a homeopathic hospital and get treated by homeopaths. Back in 1918 when the Spanish flu epidemic was happening, people who went to hospitals or saw medical doctors at the time that we’re treating with drug-based medicine, 30% of the people that had the Spanish flu died.   [0:45:29] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Correct. Approximately 30% mortality.   [0:45:30] Ashley James: Huge. That’s a very scary number. That is much larger. Right now, they’re seeing numbers somewhere around between 2% and 4% depending on the country, but we don’t have accurate numbers with the coronavirus because we are not testing everyone.   [0:45:52] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Right which raises some bewilderment at best and suspicion at worse in my mind. Because if something is so deadly or so transmissible, why are we not testing for it? What is that about? The not knowing raises more fear than anything else. I could have it. You could have it, any minute we could have it. Anyway, that’s another topic.   [0:46:22] Ashley James: We have to catch ourselves when we’re in that fear of others. I was just at Costco yesterday stocking up. There are signs everywhere that say six-foot social distancing and staff members were enforcing it. As I was walking around, we all tried to avoid each other. It felt like this air of distrust. You can’t trust your neighbor, you can’t trust people. It was very interesting.  I just started observing it and going, “Oh, this is just part of human behavior.” It’s very interesting. Let’s take that and go, “Okay. I observe myself doing this. That’s not productive. It’s putting me in stress response.” Instead, transmute it into love of my neighbor, “I’m going to stay six feet away from you to show you I love you, and respect you, and care about you. It’s not about not trusting you.” It’s interesting because we do that. There’s this reptilian maybe primal part of our brain that starts to want to distrust others and that was sort of being enforced. Back in the Spanish flu, 30% of people passed away which is huge and totally worse. Totally, totally worse than the coronavirus. Thank goodness that the coronavirus is not as bad as that. Those who went to the homeopathy hospitals, homeopathic hospitals, what was the percentage? What was the mortality rate?   [0:48:04] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: 1.05% mortality.   [0:48:59] Ashley James: It is like how in the world do we not still have homeopathic hospitals? How in the world do homeopaths not work alongside our medical doctors and hospitals if that is the level of effectiveness? How in the world have we allowed, have we pulled the wool over our eyes and allowed pharmaceutical companies to take over our medical system, not for our benefit. Drugs are good, they save lives. I’m not saying no drugs ever. I’m saying that for their profits—if you look at the history of modern medicine—they pushed out all others. There are times we want to use homeopathy because it’s more effective. We should have a bigger tool belt. We should be allowed to.   [0:48:59] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: The why did it get pushed out—the answer to that is in an interview I did with an ER doc who now does mind-body medicine. I interviewed her for a live presentation. It’s on the Facebook page Real Immunity Movie. Anyone can go there and listen to that interview. It’s fabulous. Dr. Kim really outlines what happened in medicine and why it got pushed out. She does a nice concise job of it so people can listen to that there. Part of the reason that that death rate was so high was because they were suppressing the fever. Aspirin had just come out and it was the wonder drug because you could give the same aspirin to 1000 people without having to take the case. All you had to do was see they had a fever, give them aspirin, boom their fever comes down.  Homeopaths had to take the case because they had a genus epidemicus. They knew it was one of these five remedies, but they had to talk to the patient, ask some questions, observe the symptoms in order to give the proper remedy. Then those patients were surviving, whereas the ones whose fevers were eliminated, it was forcing the pathology deeper into the system because the system wasn’t allowed to move things up and out with this fever, and they were dying very rapidly. The reason I talk about this is because of genus epidemicus. It’s a method that’s been used successfully for generations by homeopaths. There are some classical homeopaths who do not support homeoprophylaxis. They say the only method to use is genus epidemicus.  I would say both methods can be good. Genus epidemicus is great, and we use it. I’m actually doing a class on it next week because we’re identifying the genus epidemicus for this particular epidemic, and it will morph as things change. But what about the weakest among us? What about those who get sick and die before they can get any homeopathic treatment?  Homeoprophylaxis can be effective and it works. We know it’s about 90% effective with these tropical diseases so why not use it? It can’t harm anyone, and it’s easy to distribute, easy to use. It seems to me there’s room for both in the world: genus epidemicus as well as homeoprophylaxis.   [0:51:34] Ashley James: Homeoprophylaxis is like a homeopathy vaccine in that it trains the immune system—   [0:51:44] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: It exercises.   [0:51:45] Ashley James: Exercises, familiarizes. The immune system makes a more educated approach when it then actually comes in contact with the pathogen versus genus Epidemicus, which is once we already have the illness, then we want to take some homeopathy to help us move through the symptoms faster.   [0:52:10] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Correct, correct. Exactly.   [0:52:11] Ashley James: Both should be in our tool belt.   [0:52:17] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Genus epidemicus, if you’re really ill, you probably need a professional homeopath to intervene, to differentiate what remedy you need. I wouldn’t recommend people treating themselves but have remedies on hand. If you have to reach out to a homeopath that’s easy enough to do or if you have enough education knowledge in homeopathy you could probably differentiate and choose the right remedy, but it’s not so easy to treat yourself or your family. Even homeopaths, we reach out to colleagues if it’s ourselves or our family.  Having those genus remedies can be really helpful. Right now I know because I have people emailing me daily saying a lot of the homeopathic pharmacies are out of a lot of the remedies. They’re not able to fill orders, many of them right now.  I know for myself with the Influenzinum CV that I’m offering, I can’t keep it in stock. I pick up 100 or 200 vials of it at a time and they sell out within a day. I have doctors’ offices. This is the encouraging thing. I have MD’s offices contacting me for the Influenzinum CV. They’re open-minded, forward-thinking MDS, and their practices lean towards natural methods, but they’re MDs. They’re classically trained in medical school. They recognize the value of it. They’re reaching out for Influenzinum CV.   [0:53:52] Ashley James: Very exciting. When someone gets a vial of this, they can actually make it last years. Because I got the Influenzinum from you—gosh, I want to say two years ago. It’s when I interviewed you about it. It was well over a year ago. It has to be over a year ago because I’ve been through almost two flu seasons now with it. We didn’t get the flu both seasons.  There have been times where we felt like, “Oh, I kind of feel flu-like symptoms,” and then we would take it, and it would pass. We, of course, do lots of other stuff too to keep our immune system up and to support our body in general. When I took the Influenzinum and made a vial, took a few pellets of this whole vial of pellets, and put it in some alcohol. We don’t really drink. A friend left sake in our house so I ended up making it out of sake and a big dropper bottle. Then pounding it 100 times.  We keep it in the fridge. We just take a few drops of it every week or every two weeks. Like you said, it’s retraining with homeoprophylaxis, with the Influenzinum, you can take it every few weeks throughout flu season to educate your immune system to mount an intelligent response.   [0:55:26] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: You made a tincture. That’s great. That’s really commendable. Yeah, you made a tincture. Those pellets, you could have made 100 bottles of tinctures from those pellets.   [0:55:34] Ashley James: Right. It could last our family forever. It’s why I love. It’s such an inexpensive medicine. It’s not molecular medicine, it’s energetic medicine. A lot of us have been raised in the system of if I can’t see it out I don’t believe it. That molecular medicine is the only kind of medicine.   [0:56:00] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Ashley, let me present this to you. Let’s say you were around in 1800, and I said to you, “I’m going to take a picture of you, and I’m going to look at your bones. I’m going to see all your skeletons.” You would have looked at me like I was from Mars. Now, we x-ray people.  Technology is never done. Very clearly, it’s catching up to homeopathy. These energetic methods are becoming more understood and more explainable. It’s happening. The science is catching up. The science is there. Trust me, we are going to see the day where it’s explained and it’s accepted. It is the future of medicine. I honestly believe that.   [0:56:48] Ashley James: I really believe it too. I’ve done a few interviews recently talking about energy, and the morphic field, and how we can affect it and it affects us. There are so many scientific studies happening now to prove that matter and energy go in and out of phase with each other. There even whirled a photograph—a particle being a wave and a particle at the same time recently. You could probably google it, but they just took an image right at the moment where a particle was becoming a wave.  Something physical, something material was becoming energy and phasing in and out. We have to just really wrap our brain around this idea that we are energy, that our body is frequency, that we vibrate, and that there’s actually more space in us if you think about it. I love thinking about is, on a molecular level, the space between atoms that were actually made up of a lot of space when you think about it. That we’re all vibration and frequency. That’s what homeopathy is. No wonder, it is so effective. When you get the right remedy if you’re helping the body move through symptoms. A homeoprophylaxis is so effective because, like you said, it’s a non-invasive way of training the immune system to mount over an intelligent response. Have you met anyone who’s been using homeopathy and has been in contact with the virus or have you talked to any colleagues?   [0:58:42] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Yeah. One colleague who gave a webinar on the genus epidemicus has called between 60 and 70 cases of positively diagnosed coronavirus from around the world—all different countries. That’s what he’s based the genus epidemicus on. He has had actual proof of the disease itself and the remedies.  Personally, because of the dearth of testing in Minnesota where I am there hasn’t been testing. I have been treating many children mostly that have had suspiciously similar symptoms, but they’re not taking any kind of test. I’ve treated them homeopathically. Some of them have been quite miserable, but they get through it. The parents are freaked out over the symptoms. The high fever and child’s moaning and clearly uncomfortable—very, very uncomfortable—but they make it through.   [0:59:55] Ashley James: There is a woman here in Duvall, Washington who was a first responder for a nursing facility in Kirkland where they became confirmed cases—some of the first responders. I think there was something like 50 or 60 in total that were infected. She was one of them, and because she’s a health professional, documented her experience through the entire thing and wrote down.  She said she’s got the fever. It was about 102 point something. Then after the fever, she had a day where her lungs were on fire. She said her lungs were burning, but she documented and shared all of her symptoms. I hadn’t heard that before that symptom that she said her lungs were on fire and burning for a whole day. She survived and shared her experience in hopes that it would help. The children that have been having the high fever, and the moaning, and the similar symptoms, did the parents also get it? Are you seeing a lot of?   [1:01:04] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: In some cases, yeah. In some cases it went we went through the family, others not. A lot of my patients are from Hawaii to New York. They’re all over the map. They’re not necessarily only here. Some in California, some in Hawaii, New York, East Coast—a bunch on the East Coast, which is what made me suspicious because it would be the coast that would pick it up first with flights coming in. That’s where I’ve been treating most of these sick kids.   [1:01:36] Ashley James: Like you said, we should work with a homeopath because I might have burning lungs, and someone else might have burning lungs, but because of how we present our symptoms, and because of our constitutional, and all these factors a homeopath might give me a different remedy than someone else as they’re going through the disease. It’s best to work with an experienced homeopath. Are there some remedies that you can share that yes, people should stock up on or have available that have been really helpful to help people move through the fever? Especially what’s deadly is the inability to breathe.   [1:02:24] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Right, right. We see a lot of lung involvement. I’m actually going to be doing an in-depth class on this next week, which will be available through my website. A little sneak peek I would just mention a few remedies. The first one is aconite. In stage one of this, we’re seeing a lot of aconite, which is a very sudden onset of high fever. You’re not feeling well, maybe something’s wrong, and boom 102 fever—very sudden. That’s an aconite feature. You can always start with aconite. We’re also seeing a lot of phosphorus symptoms or phosphoric acid. The difference between phosphorus and phosphoric acid, there are lung symptoms, there can be choking, coughing, desire for cold drinks. The phosphoric acid has a lot more depletion, exhaustion. We see that also in stage 1 and stage 2 of this virus where there’s tremendous depletion. People are just limp, very heavy, very tired.  Then one of the most common remedies is antimonium tartaricum. This is for the inability to cough something up and out. You see in the elderly they’re not strong enough to cough something up, that they can’t expectorate, or very young children sometimes need antimonium tartaricum because they don’t have the musculature to cough and get something up and they start to choke on it. A lot of antimonium tartaricum, phosphorus, phosphoric acid, aconite is there.  There are a few others, which I’ll go into detail next week in the class with what we call materia medica. It’s a list of symptoms that are associated with that particular remedy.   [1:04:17] Ashley James: This is great for people who don’t have access to a homeopathic practitioner or like you said, it’s the middle of the night and we’re just trying to move through the symptoms. What’s the difference between suppressing a symptom and helping the body move through them?   [1:04:31] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Suppression takes place when you use a pharmaceutical drug to stop the action of something, so stopping the fever with a pharmaceutical drug. Giving any homeopathic remedy is supportive. Given correctly it’s supportive. I suppose you could suppress with a homeopathic remedy if you hammered a system with the wrong remedy time and time again, but in the right hands, homeopathy is supportive.  The other remedy for high fever is belladonna of course. You can put that in water and give it to a child every 15 minutes to bring a high fever down, and you’re not suppressing the fever. You’re facilitating the body to function with the fever, move through the fever. The other thing that can be helpful for fever, which is a folk medicine prescription is calcium lactate. This is a supplement. In high fever, the muscles try to leach calcium from the bones. You burn up your calcium very quickly. If you supplement with calcium lactate—it comes in powder, it comes in pellets—you can put it in water, you can put it in juice, and have the child sip it. I’ve known families that never use any fever reducer. They use belladonna, they use calcium lactate.  The calcium lactate can also be helpful if children are prone to febrile seizures. Febrile seizures can occur because the muscles are trying to leach calcium from the bones so they’re spasming to leach that calcium. You see it when the fever goes up rapidly very, very quickly. They don’t necessarily pretend a lifelong of seizures. It’s scarier for the parent than the child, but the calcium lactate can preclude that. Keep getting the calcium in the system and have them sip this calcium lactate in juice or water.   [1:06:39] Ashley James: Does the body do this—leach calcium from the bones—to put into the muscles because a fever is acidic and it’s trying to balance the acidity?   [1:06:50] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: I can’t really answer that, Ashley. All I know is that there’s a higher demand for calcium. I don’t know about the acid-base balance.   [1:07:00] Ashley James: I wonder if people who are deficient in their minerals because if you don’t eat a really good diet it’s very easy to be deficient in minerals. We’ve been lied to about just drink your cow milk. The reason why cow milk has such minerals is they feed the cows supplements. Well, let’s just skip the middleman, take some supplements ourselves, and also why don’t we just go eat what the animals eat, get some greens in us.   [1:07:29] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Right, and leave out the antibiotics that the animals get.   [1:07:32] Ashley James: Yes, yes. Also, milk is the biggest food that affects the immune system because you’re drinking the immune system of another animal. It’s very confusing for our immune system. Many, many reasons to cut out milk to promote a healthy immune system. That’s not my opinion. That’s from Naturopathic medicine.  We’ve been told that that’s where we should get our calcium from. Yet, animals don’t make minerals, plants don’t make minerals. Minerals are in the soil. How we get them, the best way to get them is from our fruits and our vegetables. If someone doesn’t eat enough, especially toddlers or children maybe they’ve been eating a lot of processed food like pasta and crackers. They’re not eating a ton of fruits and vegetables, maybe they’re mineral deficient or they have a digestive issue that we don’t know about because they’re allergic to milk. We don’t know.  Maybe that’s why some children get these seizures and other children don’t. The terrain of the body. If a child is fully nutrified and they’ve got enough minerals, then when under that stress of a fever they’re not having those seizures, but a child who’s minerally deficient— the muscles don’t have enough calcium—then they’re having those seizures as a result while the parathyroid is trying to get the calcium out of the bones to feed the muscles. It’s again coming back to that idea of the terrain of the body, which is very interesting. Why we should spend all our time throughout the year filling our nutrient tanks, and decreasing our stress, and practicing self-love, and supporting our body’s ability to be fully stocked up, fully nutrified, and fully healed. That way, when we come across illness, it has its best chance of survival and of thriving. Very interesting about the seizures and the calcium supplement.   [1:09:48] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: You can find that information, again, in the free knowledge vault under natural methods. That’s in the knowledge vault for anyone who wants to download that.   [1:10:00] Ashley James: In the Spanish flu, when they were suppressing the fever, why was that killing people? Why was it killing people to suppress the symptoms?   [1:10:14] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Homeopathically we know that when you suppress that function of the body—the fever serves a tremendous function to reboot everything, to burn up bacteria, to burn off the illness basically. Take that away and it’s going to go rampant. The first place that’s going to go is into the lungs. This is what we see all the time. It goes to the lungs, and then the people would be coughing up blood in the Spanish flu situation, and dying very quickly.  It was understandable because the “modern medicine” was aspirin. You could treat so many people with aspirin. It was the modern way, so that’s what they were doing. In the class I have coming up I have some of the testimonials of some of the doctors that were treating homeopathically or the nurses that were in hospitals and seeing the difference between those taking homeopathy and those taking allopathy or conventional medicine. It’s very interesting to look back in history and see what happened.   [1:11:25] Ashley James: I bet. Absolutely. We need to learn from the past especially now. Especially now.   [1:11:31] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: I know that members of our Homeopathic Association have gone to the State Medical Association and offered to assist and showing the data from these past epidemics and saying, “We’re prepared to assist,” but they’re more or less ignored.   [1:11:49] Ashley James: Of course. This is the system that’s been set up, and also people have been trained for the last 100 years by pharmaceuticals. If you look at Edward Bernays and how we’ve been manipulated. Just study Edward Bernays and how we as a society have been manipulated over the last 100 years to view pharmaceutical-based medicine as the only cure, or the only tool, and everything else is quackery. They discredit everything else multi-generationally. They’ve made it so that we don’t trust great-grandmother’s remedies basically.  What we have to come back to, we just have to keep coming back to the results. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Let’s look at the results. The results are that homeoprophylaxis has—in many countries—gotten great results, and it is cheap, it’s effective, there’s no side effects, everyone can take it. So why not? Why not practice homeoprophylaxis? Even if it just lowers our stress levels a bit, that’ll be helpful too.   [1:13:09] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Right, right, right. Exactly, exactly. Look back again, Ashley, at frequency. The frequency of conventional medicine is such that it can’t see or hear a different frequency. It can’t understand homeopathy. It can’t let it into its field because it’s at such a lower vibration, a denser vibration. I’ll have to say that for emergency medicine, conventional medicine is great. If you have an arm hanging off or you’ve been hit by a car that’s what you want, but it doesn’t treat chronic disease. It doesn’t really prevent disease in quite the same way as a good terrain can prevent disease. It’s a different frequency. Will it ever be able to see natural medicine or homeopathy? I don’t know. The frequencies are pretty far apart as I know from the whole cancer journey. Every time I walked into an allopathic office it would take me days to get my center back again because the frequency would be so dense and so doom and gloom. You do this or it’s not going to work. You can feel it, feel a different frequency. I’ll have to look up Edward Bernays. Is it like mayonnaise? Is that how it’s spelled, Bernays?   [1:14:37] Ashley James: Well, if you just type into Google, Google will spell it right for you. Edward Bernays is sort of the father of media manipulation. He wrote some really good books. One of them is called Propaganda. He just shares his formulas. He is one of the people who is celebrated as creating how they manipulate us using media back in—I don’t remember the exact time frame whether it was the 40s of the 50s, but right around then smoking, only men smoked. In the movies, only the villain smoked. The cigarette companies wanted to sell cigarettes to women because that’s half the population. They want to sell twice as much as what they’re selling now. They use this manipulation in the media all of a sudden they made they used Hollywood so film, and television, and radio, and print ads to make smoking be something that women have freedom do. That it’s a symbol of freedom, it’s a symbol of womanhood. They were able to very quickly turn the narrative 180 to go from only the villain smokes to now sexy women smoke, and your doctor smokes. Look at how their sales went through the roof because they were able to change the perception of cigarettes. It took them many years to change the perception of cigarettes to be like cancer sticks. We’re fighting still against their marketing in some aspects and the remnants of their marketing. That’s just one example, but they’ve used in modern medicine they’ve used the same tactics to turn people against holistic medicine. They’ve manipulated, that’s very well-documented that the hospitals wanted to make more money. Birth pretty much happened at home. Home births—for how long have we been alive here on the planet? Hundreds of thousands of millions of years, who knows how ever long we’ve been here. It was home births. The hospitals wanted it to be in the hospital so they could make more money. They started to put out advertising and articles about how if you have a midwife from a different country—so they used this xenophobia—that they will bring their third-world country diseases into your home. As they deliver your baby they’ll infect your baby. They made people afraid of midwives and said, “Your baby will die, and you will die if you have a midwife. Come to our clean pristine hospital we’re modern. You’ll be a modern woman.” Look at how they marketed that breastmilk was inferior to the science of formula.   [1:18:13] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Most recently they said that nursing your baby was contradictory to vaccines. Vaccines couldn’t work as well if you nursed your baby.   [1:18:22] Ashley James: Right, right. The thing is that we have to use our critical thinking. If you want to learn critical thinking there’s a website called Trivium Education. I think it’s triviumeducation.com. It might be .org. Google Trivium Education. It’s a free website that has been around for a very long time. I’ve been following them for over ten years. They teach for free. They teach critical thinking. It’s a system of thinking from Plato’s era. It’s a 3500-year-old system of critical thinking that was taught to people, but it was actually systematically taken out of the education system when they introduced the project and education system about 150 years ago—somewhere around there. They took it out of the education system. It’s still taught in certain private schools like Jesuit private schools, but it is a system that was taught rigorously. It’s critical thinking. You can watch their videos, and listen to their audios, and you learn this system you learn all the linguistic fallacies. If you learn the system you will become a human BS detector. You’ll actually be able to hear the lies that the media is spewing. It’s all about gathering the facts, and not letting the spin and the Edward Bernays style manipulation take over. Very Orwellian if you’ve ever—just read the first chapter of 1984. Watch the movie to get how the media spins things and controls to manipulate because all major media outlets are owned by the corporations that want to control the population. It’s not conspiracy this fact. It’s the first paragraph in Edward Bernays book says that he believes that the population needs to be controlled by a few powerful men that own these media outlets. That major corporations owned the media outlets so that they can control the interests. They can control the population. I guess I’m showing my tinfoil hat at this point, but it’s about coming back to what we can control. Because I can’t control, the media does. I can’t control what the few powerful men out there are doing to the puppet masters. What I can control is my breath, I can control taking homeopathy, I can control eating organic food, I can control supporting my family in love, and joy, and bringing myself to a higher vibration, and I can control educating myself, and informing myself. So that when I take in the information, I look at it through the lens of critical thinking, through the lens of being able to decipher the fallacies. I recommend people study critical thinking, especially if we’re all going to be locked up in our homes for the next few weeks. Study critical thinking. It’s called the Trivium Education, triviumeducation.com or .org.   [1:21:49] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: It’s .com. I just went there.   [1:21:50] Ashley James: It’s .com. Okay, good. I always think it should be .org because it’s a free thing, but it’s triviumeducation.com. Just study the trivium and learn the system of critical thinking so that you can decipher. Don’t just let the media dictate your nervous system. This will also help our nervous system to learn critical thinking because you’ll be able to see through the lies and stream through all the information to pull out the truth, and to weigh it, and to analyze it. If the medical system used the trivium and analyzed homeopathy, they would adopt homeopathy as one of their tools because they would see the results. They’d see that there is a place for homeopathy alongside allopathic medicine because people get fantastic results. It’s all about the results, and that it increases survival rate. That’s wonderful. We have two tools in homeopathy. Like you said, we have homeoprophylaxis, which is something we can do to exercise the immune system. There’s homeoprophylaxis for all kinds of diseases, which is really exciting, but right now, everyone’s focused on the coronavirus. They can go to your website. Is it realimmunity.org that they would go to your website and go under shop for the homeoprophylaxis?   [1:23:20] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Yes, or they can look for just general programs for their family, for their children as well. For the homeoprophylaxis for viruses, for Influenzinum CV that’s under shop.   [1:23:33] Ashley James: Okay. I know that you sell out. So you have to go to the website every day because it sells out very quickly. Then you go, and you restock, and then it sells out again. One of my friends locally was able to get one. He says the tracking shows it’s on the way. He’s going to share it with all of us locally here, which is exciting. Just keep going to realimmunity.org, and checking out every day, and seeing. I know Cilla is doing her best to keep it in stock. We can use that for years to come because it exercises the immune system against several viruses, is that correct?   [1:24:18] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Correct, correct. You can use it year after year.   [1:24:24] Ashley James: Terrific. Your training, which is going to teach us more about when we have symptoms then we could take these homeopathic remedies to help our bodies, for our body to move through it faster—instead of suppress it move through it faster. How do we find that training?   [1:24:46] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: It’ll go out in a Mailchimp, it’ll be on Facebook, it’ll be on Instagram. The goal is to have it offered next Friday, the 27th. I’m working towards finishing it up to have it offered by next week.   [1:25:03] Ashley James: Okay, great. If we got on your email list we’ll see it. If we follow you on Facebook we’ll see it. Is it going to be a live webinar?   [1:25:12] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Yes, live webinar with Q&A.   [1:25:16] Ashley James: Oh, great. I was going to say, “Do you have Q&A?” Okay, perfect. That’ll be great, so we should all sign up for that. That’ll be fun. For those who can’t attend live you’ll have the video for sale or available afterward?   [1:25:31] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Possibly. I might just be updating it and offering it again live. We’ll see.   [1:25:40] Ashley James: Okay. We’ll stay tuned. Cilla, I love how dedicated you are to education, educating us, and supporting us to support ourselves and being healthy. You’ve been on the show numerous times, and we’ve gotten to know each other over the years. I love how much integrity you have and how heart-centered you are in the work that you do. I only promote things I believe in, and I really, really believe in the work that you do. I feel like I’m the mama bear sometimes. I protect my listeners. I protect in that I don’t want to send them down the wrong path like I don’t want to be sent down the wrong path. I protect my listeners by not taking on advertisers. I get offers every day for all kinds of things. I comb through them, and I have not taken any advertising dollars. I don’t believe in commercials because I don’t know if I could trust those companies. The only companies that I will promote are ones that I believe in that I know make a difference, and then I’ve gotten fantastic feedback afterward for my listeners saying that it really helped them. Then I’ll continue to promote those companies. You are someone who I will—time and time again—refer people to because the work that you do is exceptional, your heart-centered, you are full of integrity, and you get great results. You have three documentary movies that listeners can check out. I definitely recommend them. You have homeoprophylaxis, a kit for the entire family that covers everything like polio, and measles, and mumps, and rubella, and all that stuff. That covers a ton of them. People can get the whole homeoprophylaxis kit from you. The whole family can go through that program. You’ve got lots of free information. Again, tell us how to get to your free library, your free vault of information.   [1:27:54] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: The free knowledge fault is on familyhomeopathycare.com. I have a free giveaway for your listeners as well, Ashley. The first of the three films, I’ve divided it into three half-hour episodes, and I’m giving away the first episode. That’s going to be on Instagram, Facebook. People will be able to find it on the Real Immunity Facebook page or Instagram page. I don’t know if my assistant’s gotten it up there yet, but as soon as she gets it up there it’ll just be a link, password, and people can access that first episode of the film.   [1:28:32] Ashley James: Great. I recommend just buying the digital access to all of your films because the three films together paint this great story. It’s so worth watching. Didn’t you have Dr. Debra Gambrell as one of your?   [1:28:50] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Yes.   [1:28:51] Ashley James: I interviewed her and we talked about this in a past episode. She’s an anesthesiologist who started getting into holistic medicine after her son was diagnosed with autism. He was on the spectrum to the point where he couldn’t be in a—if he was going to go to school it was going to be a very specialized school for people on the spectrum. She did natural medicine with him. Now she says in a “normal school.” He’s in classes with children who are not on the spectrum, and he is functioning with them. That’s very exciting. One of the things she shares in our interview is about the importance of fevers. She talks about that in your movie as well. Parents, we’ve been trained to suppress a fever. We’ve been trained to give baby aspirin or ibuprofen to our children the moment they have a fever. We’ve been trained to be afraid of fevers. We’ve done a huge disservice to our children as a result because fevers are healthy. She talks about this that fevers are healthy. Seattle Children’s Hospital, which I adore. I adore the work they do. They have an article, you can google Seattle Children’s Hospital fever myths. They say that even a fever of 108 or 109 for a child can be a healthy fever. I’m not saying it’s always a healthy fever, but it can be a healthy fever. When your child is 102, think about this, your child could be at a 108 and a Children’s Hospital in Seattle thinks it could still be a healthy fever. Dr. Debra Gambrell discusses in detail what to look for in children to see whether it’s a healthy fever or an unhealthy fever in my interview. Also, she talks about it with you in your movies. The point is that if we suppress symptoms we could actually be doing tremendous harm and a disservice to the child. Of course, always talk to your child’s doctor, always talk to your pediatrician. Go read that article that Children’s Hospital put out about fevers. Listen to my interview with Dr. Debra Gambrel about it, and also watch Dr. Cilla Whatcott’s three movies that she made where she interviews amazing doctors of holistic medicine to bring you this information about how to support the immune system. Your movies are real—what was it? I get them mixed up.   [1:31:36] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: It’s the Real Immunity series: Quest for Real Immunity, Passage to Real Immunity, and Choosing Real Immunity. Those are the three. They’re all available on realimmunity.org.   [1:31:47] Ashley James: The third one’s the best one but you have to watch the first two. You have to watch all three. You have to watch all three, so realimmunity.org. Go there, get the movies, get the digital access to them. I have a feeling we’re going to have a lot of free time on our hands for a lot of us who are social distancing or quarantined at home. We’ve got a lot of resources we’re giving you today to go check out. It’s been so great having you on the show. I could just talk to you for hours about my love of homeopathy. I have some stories about homeopathy I share in past interviews so I won’t share them now, but I have had great success with homeopathy in my personal health but also in my child’s health when he was a baby when he was weeks old with horrible colic. I was trying everything. I was giving him the special little drink you give babies—that colic calm or whatever they call it—where it has fennel in it.   [1:32:54] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Fennel tea.   [1:32:54] Ashley James: Yeah, fennel tea. I was giving him fennel tea with a little bit of ginger. I was rubbing his belly with very diluted dill essential oil. I was trying everything natural to help with the colic. He had horrible, horrible gas pain. He was just looking up at me with these desperate eyes like, “Please, help. I’m dying.” His guts were being torn up from the inside. Horrible, horrible because, unfortunately, he had to be on formula and we were also getting breast milk donated. The formula was from a cow because everything else he was allergic to. We tried everything. We tried a lactose-free one that he was still allergic to it. While we were trying to access breastmilk he had to be supplemented on this. The colic was just unbearable. In the middle of the night, I’m exhausted, he’s exhausted, he’s screaming, I’m crying, and I’ve tried a bunch of different things. This isn’t placebo. Then I put a little pellet of the homeopathy in him, and the calmness comes over his face. It melts in his mouth—this little pellet—and he calms and he looks at me. It’s just relief. He didn’t pass gas. It happened every time because, for the first year of his life, he had horrible gas pain and colic until we dialed what food allergies he had, and was able to adjust his diet for him, and of course when he got off breastmilk and formula. Homeopathy was what helped him move through it. This is what I tell people for people who are skeptical, “How does homeopathy work for a dog? How does it work for an infant?” Because you can explain like if I’m an adult and I take it and I believe in it and then I get a result you could say it’s placebo, but how does the placebo effect work when homeopathy helps animals and it helps infants. Other things I was giving my child wasn’t working. So it couldn’t be placebo because he can’t sit there and think he’s a one-month-old baby. He can’t go, “Oh, my mom put something in my mouth therefore I’m going to have a placebo effect. I believe this will help.” Homeopathy has been shown—time and time again—to work whether you believe in it or not. That’s the exciting thing. If you want to hear more of my stories that I’ve shared in my personal life. Cilla has shared many wonderful stories and also lots of great information. Go to learntruehealth.com, search Dr. Cilla Whatcott in the search bar at learntruehealth.com. You’ll find all the episodes where Cilla has been on the show. You can also look in the show notes of this podcast to find all the episodes. Listen to all of them so you’ll hear more great information about homeopathy and homeoprophylaxis. Thank you so much for coming today and talking specifically about the coronavirus, and how we can use homeopathy and homeoprophylaxis for the Covid-19. Is there anything that you want to make sure that you say today to the listener? Anything left unsaid before we finish today’s interview?   [1:36:24] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: First, I want to thank you, Ashley, because it’s always a pleasure to come on your show. I just so appreciate everything you’ve said. Your recognition that I try to work with integrity from my heart means the world to me because that’s the most important thing to me. Thank you sincerely for having me. I think that the most important thing is to trust your intuition and get away from fear. That’s the keynote of my films, really. Coming at it from every direction to try to get parents to trust their intuition. You have this, and you can get through this. Just quiet yourself, go inside, learn, read, understand, know what you need to do for yourself, and trust that. That’s my best advice. Nobody can tell you what’s right for you. It has to be your choice.   [1:37:22] Ashley James: Brilliant. Thank you so much, Dr. Cilla Whatcott for coming back on the show. You are always welcome. Keep coming back, and keep teaching us. We’d love to have you. Before we wrap it up, is there a resource for those who would love to hire a homeopath? Either a digital one online or one in person? Some people, they’re learning about homeopathy for the first time. How do they navigate this world and find a good homeopathy?   [1:37:50] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Let me tell you a website, I’m just pulling it up. Center for Homeopathic Certification. They have a list—here it is, hang on. Council for Homeopathic Certification. The actual URL is homeopathicdirectory.com. These people are certified. I would highly recommend people who have the CCH after their names. It’s rigorous training, rigorous testing, and they are certified. Homeopathicdirectory.com. You can click on your state, and you can find who’s certified in your state.   [1:38:26] Ashley James: What does CCH mean?   [1:38:28] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Certified Classical Homeopathy.   [1:38:34] Ashley James: Is there any alphabet behind their name if they’re into homeoprophylaxis?   [1:38:41] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Some do, some don’t, C.HP. Certified in HP, but not everyone because I’ve certified quite a few medical doctors, chiropractors, Naturopaths. They don’t necessarily have that designation. You just have to ask and see if someone has training.   [1:39:07] Ashley James: Do you offer training for people who want to study homeopathy?   [1:39:10] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: I do. I don’t advertise it publicly. People who reach out to me I save their emails, and then when I do a training I limit it to about six people so there’s a lot of personal interaction. It’s a six-hour training and the seventh hour is one-on-one with me to adapt it to your own practice. I provide tons of information, handouts, written information. There’s just lots of stuff. I’m hoping to teach that again sometime this summer. People can contact me. I just give them a free 15-minute consult so we can see if it’s a good fit for them.   [1:39:51] Ashley James: Got it.   [1:39:52] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: But they need to have a practice. They need to have some sort of practice. It’s not available to parents or laypeople. Professionals who are in some sort of practice.   [1:40:03] Ashley James: About 20% of my listeners are holistic health practitioners. Those who have a practice and want to learn homeoprophylaxis—fantastic tool to have in your practice—can contact Dr. Cilla Whatcott and see if it’s right for them in their practice. That’s very cool. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. So realimmunity.org. Lots of great information. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I want to leave everyone with the homework to practice self-care, self-love—especially now—more diligently. Soak in magnesium, drink lemon water, go for walks—even if just walks around your backyard. Get out in sunlight, ground yourself, take your shoes off and put your feet in the grass in the backyard, get out in nature. Even though we’re self-isolating do your best to get outside in nature and take care of yourself. Lots of love, and cuddles, and hugs to get the oxytocin up. Oxytocin and cortisol are opposite. So cortisol is the stress hormone, oxytocin is the love hormone. If we can do lots of cuddles—30-second hugs with our spouse and our children—and love on our pets like you said. Our dogs, or cats, or whatever. We can increase oxytocin and that helps to decrease cortisol. You’re either in a cortisol state or you’re an oxytocin state right now. You want to keep yourself in oxytocin state as much as possible and keep yourself out of cortisol as much as possible. My homework for everyone is to practice as much self-love as possible. Even if you have to write down a list. I have a list on my fridge. Just write down a list of ways that you decrease your stress and ways that you increase your joy. Whether it’s put on music and dance. Just ways you increase your joy and decrease your stress. Put it up around the house—post-it notes—to remind yourself, “Oh, I can do that right no. I can decrease my stress.” Then after that, take all the resources we told you about Dr. Cilla Whatcott’s website and her free resources vault, and her videos, or movies. Also, if you want to study what I talked about today with triviumeducation.com. Take all these resources and bring that information into you as long as you’re staying out of cortisol, as long as you’re staying out of the stress response. If you catch yourself in stress responsible while studying, get up, walk away from your computer or your phone, and do something that brings you joy and increases your oxytocin. Stay in a state of oxytocin for better health long term. Cilla, such a pleasure as always. Come back on the show again sometime soon. Keep sharing with us. I love, love learning from you.   [1:43:07] Dr. Cilla Whatcott: Thank you, thank you, Ashley, very much.   [1:43:10] Outro: Are you in to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price? For high-quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you, go to takeyoursupplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Takeyoursupplements.com. That’s takeyoursupplements.com. Be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.     Get Connected With Dr. Cilla Whatcott!  Real Immunity Organization Council for Homeopathic Certifcation Trivium Education World Wide Choice Family Homeopathy Care Twitter Learn True Health – vaccines Book by Dr. Cilla Whatcott There Is a Choice – Homeoprophylaxis Recommended Readings by Dr. Cilla Whatcott Dissolving Illusions – Suzanne Humphries (Vaccines) Miller’s Review of Critical Vaccine Studies – Neil Miller (Vaccines) Impossible Cure –  Amy Lansky (Homeopathy) The Complete  Homeopathy Handbook – Miranda Castro (Homeopathy) Check out other interviews of Dr. Cilla Whatcott! Episode 137: Homeoprophylaxis Episode 155: Developing Real Immunity Episode 228: Homeopathy Episode 305: How To Naturally Avoid The Flu Episode 394: Choosing Real Immunity