Swarfcast

I highly recommend you watch the video version of this podcast. Click on the link to go to the video. I won a few big matches on my high school Tennis team, but I was never awesome. I never won the big tournaments. What killed me was that I always had more fun and played better in practice than in big matches when pressure made my muscles tight. For the last few months, I’ve been fascinated by a discovery a tennis pro made 50 years ago that’s revolutionizing how people perform under pressure. It started when I listened to “The Coach in Your Head,” an episode from Michael Lewis’s “Against the Rules” podcast. Check out the video I made breaking down the whole story on my YouTube channel, I Learned It on a Podcast.   We all experience this. Job interviews, presentations, equipment demonstrations. We “play tight” when stakes are high, performing worse at the very things we’ve trained for. Tim Gallwey figured out why this happens. In 1974, he published The Inner Game of Tennis, decades before today’s coaching boom. Like me, he was skilled but didn’t perform his best when it mattered most. While teaching tennis at a country club during summer break, he had a profound realization. Instead of giving a student technical instructions for hitting topspin, Gallwey stayed quiet and just tossed balls for 3-4 minutes. Suddenly, the guy was hitting perfect topspin shots. His next lesson, he told a complete beginner to shut her eyes and see herself hitting the ball. She executed perfectly, naturally doing everything he would have taught her. His realization was simple. Performance isn’t about more instruction. It’s about eliminating mental interference. This method became known as mind coaching. It helps people notice when thoughts create tension and worry, then redirects focus to what’s actually useful. Michael Lewis’s daughter Dixie, a competitive softball player, worked with a mind coach who transformed her brutal self-talk from “don’t screw up” to “loose and aggressive.” When she focused on that positive phrase, her muscles could work instead of being locked up by tension. I’ve started trying to apply the “loose and aggressive” mindset in my daily life. I think about it in my morning routines, content creation, and business negotiations. Recently, teaching my 3-year-old to throw a frisbee, instead of explaining technique, I demonstrated it to him a few times and said “just watch and do it.” In minutes he was doing it–of course in his own way with two hands, but he was really doing it, probably better than if I’d verbally instructed him Today mind coaches work with firefighters developing mental routines for emergencies, executives learning to compete rather than just manage. Perhaps this week, try to feel where you are playing tight. Maybe you’ll notice you’re so focused on not failing that you can’t access what you actually know. Or, if you’re coaching other people, you might ask what they noticed instead of listing what they did wrong. The big puzzle I find is to not let yourself get tight about trying to be loose. It just creates more of the same problem. Question: Do you perform well under pressure? What is your secret?

“This is how it’s always been done.” Businesses sometimes can do OK with a philosophy like that. Maybe even make good money.  But it sucks being just ok, because you know you could be so much better. Today on the podcast we are joined by Jim Mayer, founder of the Manufacturing Connector and host of the Manufacturing Culture Podcast. Jim is a manufacturing advocate who helps companies break free from the “it’s always been done this way’ mindset.  He specializes in transforming workplaces where the culture is “just OK” into awesome places to work, where employees are engaged, people trust each other and they celebrate successes together. It was a great conversation, he even gave me valuable advice about improving meetings at our company, Graff-Pinkert. ************* Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.     .   View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Noah Graff: On your website you mentioned taking “OK” scenarios at manufacturing companies to a new place. Explain that. Jim Mayer: “OK” in the sense that I use it means status quo. The way things have always been done. When I hear people say, “That’s the way things have always been done,” I see it as a sign of room for growth, opportunity, and improvement. I can take what has always been done and provide a solution or a way to become better, become more profitable, become more process-oriented. Noah: I know you don’t believe that a culture for one company is necessarily right for another. But how do you define a “healthy culture” in your surveys and when you’re consulting manufacturing companies? Jim: The idea of organizational culture is that you have a good culture when your employees and your organization have alignment of values. When your company values are X and your employees also value that same thing, that’s when you have alignment. That’s when you have a healthy culture for your organization. It’s individualistic because every employee is going to have their own values. Every organization is going to have their own values based on the values of top-line leadership. That’s why it’s not my job to judge. What I value may be different from what that company values or what the employees value. I’m just making sure they’re aligned. Noah: How has remote work affected business culture and manufacturing culture?  Jim: Typically, what I find with the shops I work with, remote work is not accepted where it could be. Of course, folks on the shop floor can’t be remote, but they can have flexible hours more suited to their lifestyle and work-life balance needs. It all comes down to what that individual is looking for. But remote culture in manufacturing can thrive. It’s just a matter of trust. That’s really the foundation of why it doesn’t work. Leadership in this industry is so conditioned to have eyes on processes and people who are part of the processes. When they aren’t able to have eyes on somebody, the trust just isn’t there that they’re getting their job done. Noah: One thing I’ve wanted to do more at our company, Graff-Pinkert, is have some huddles or meetings. We have never had anything routine. We are moving right now, and we’re going to have the added challenge of having a separate office and warehouse. I’d like to have some meetings to bring people together and be more engaged. Jim: I would say start with a weekly meeting. But really define what that weekly meeting is designed to accomplish ahead of time. “Hey team, we’re going to have a weekly meeting where we talk about this week’s wins, this week’s failures, this week’s lessons learned.” You have to have that defined ahead of time so that people don’t walk into it thinking, “Why are we having this meeting? I have no idea.” I always like to talk about celebrations. What were our successes? What were our opportunities for learning this week? When you take that kind of mindset, it changes the framework of the discussion. But then also, the way that you create a culture that values those people and values that learning and development is asking them, “What were your failures and what did you learn?” What were some of the misses we had this week and what did you learn from them? Companies that generally have healthier cultures don’t view failure as a mistake. They view failure as an opportunity to grow. Questions:  What aspect of your company’s culture are you most proud of? What aspect of your company’s culture would you like to improve? ********* This transcription was aided by claud.ai. to improve readability. For more information about Jim Mayer’s services go the manufacturing connector.

If you had $100,000 to spend on your machine shop, what would you spend it on? When I polled people on LinkedIn, out of 170 responses, 46% said they would buy a new machine, 33% said “robots and automation.” Only seventeen percent said “hire and train people.” Does this mean American shops have basically given up on finding good workers? On today’s show, Lloyd and I are going to discuss why this is happening, what it means for the future of manufacturing, and whether there might be a better way to think about that $100,000 investment. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights What the Poll Results Really Mean When only 17% of respondents chose to invest in people over equipment, it reveals how the industry has essentially decided that finding, training, and retaining skilled workers is too difficult compared to buying another machine. But Lloyd argues we might be approaching this decision all wrong. Lloyd’s Contrarian Take While most shop owners automatically think “new machine” or “automation” when they have capital to invest, Lloyd suggests an option that I didn’t think to put in the poll: sales and marketing. “People tend to use the answers that you propose for them,” Lloyd explains. “But I would like to propose another answer… sales and advertising and an attempt to get new clients or to expand the clients that you have.” In an industry that’s notoriously bad at marketing itself, Lloyd suggests that $100,000 invested in finding new customers might generate more long-term value than any piece of equipment. I argue that Gen Z buyers want videos and social media advertising rather than traditional salespeople. But Lloyd counters with something even more old-school: actual in-person visits to potential clients or existing customers. While phone calls might not work with younger buyers, Lloyd believes face-to-face relationship building could be the most neglected and potentially most valuable investment a shop could make. Military Contracts Driving Change We discuss how military contracts are forcing equipment decisions beyond simple cost considerations. New security requirements and quality standards mean some work simply can’t be done on older equipment anymore, regardless of the shop’s preferences. But getting military work isn’t just about having the right equipment or submitting the lowest bid. Lloyd argues that political connections might be the key to landing big contracts for ammunition and defense work. “You know people. You contribute to people’s campaigns,” he explains. It’s about having a good network, knowing somebody who knows somebody, and being willing to go through the bureaucratic process to get certified. This reality represents more than just equipment upgrades. It’s about understanding that success in defense manufacturing often depends as much on relationships and political connections as it does on machining capabilities. Tariffs and Uncertainty Throughout our conversation, one theme keeps emerging: uncertainty. Whether it’s tariffs on raw materials, changing military requirements, or the ongoing challenge of finding skilled workers, manufacturers are making capital decisions in an environment where the rules seem to change weekly. Lloyd points out that there’s actually been less indecision lately now that some things have been somewhat solidified, even with the caveat that they could change again. This temporary clarity, however fragile, has helped our business pick up over the last month and a half. But the tariffs themselves might be doing more damage to American manufacturers than to China. Lloyd argues that China, as the low-cost producer of steel in the world, can absorb tariffs without too much pain. Meanwhile, American shops face significant cost increases on raw materials like steel and aluminum, most of which is imported. The result? Tariffs may be hurting the very manufacturers they’re supposed to help. The underlying volatility in trade policy remains, and many companies are still paralyzed by the constant flux, which may be the biggest threat to growth of all. Questions: What would YOU spend $100K on in your shop? Are you investing more in equipment or people this year?

During my career as a used machinery dealer, I’ve met many successful companies in the machining business who have no social media presence and don’t even have a website. Surprisingly they use some of the most advanced equipment and have more customers than they need.  Today we’re pulling out a favorite podcast episode about a company just like that. I interviewed Jay Sauder, owner of Sauder Machine in Plymouth, Ohio. Sauder makes a variety of precision components such as casings for mechanical pocket watches and wheel cylinders for horse drawn buggies driven by Amish people. Sauder Machine has no sales team nor a social media presence, yet it has a diversified, profitable customer base that continues to grow through great networking. Jay Sauder told me about how doing great work and establishing great relationships with customers has been the fuel to keep his business rapidly growing year after year. Listen with Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, or your podcast favorite app. Main Points Jay talks about the origin of Sauder Machine. His dad started the business with his uncle in 1982 in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Jay is the fourth generation of machine shop owners in his family. In 2009 he started at the business and eventually took over administrative duties from his dad, who prefers to be working on machines to pushing pencils. Jay says when he started, the business had a lot of good customers, but his dad had not been charging some of them enough for various jobs to be profitable. (3:00) Jay talks about his Mennonite background and how that has brought him Amish clientele. He grew up as Old Order Mennonite, a religious group with many common customs and origins as the Amish. He started driving a horse and buggy when he was 15 years old (he has only been driving a car for six years). Jay says the communities vary, but on the whole, Amish people are more conservative than Mennonites. Jay says he grew up with electricity and telephones in his house, while Amish people usually don’t have those amenities. Mennonites don’t have to have beards and don’t have to dress quite as conservatively as Amish. (5:00) Jay says the commonalities and connections between Mennonite and Amish communities have brought Sauder Machine some important customers. Sauder Machine designed a hydraulic brake system for Amish and Mennonite carriages. The carriages already had brakes, but they were using cast iron rear cylinders imported from China, which were modeled after those on a 1941 light-duty Ford truck. Sauder’s wheel cylinders are made of anodized aluminum and are water resistant. The company also makes master cylinders. Since Sauder started making the wheel cylinders in 2012, it has produced 140,000 of them, which the company makes on an OKK CNC 500mm pallet horizontal mill. (7:45) Jay says his company uses no advertising, sales team, manufacturer’s rep, or social media. The company has a single page website that Jay says has brought him a few RFQs in the past. He says his business connections and customer good will are his key getting new business. (10:20) Jay talks about a casing for a mechanical pocket watch he produces. Amish people do not wear wrist watches, and some require the watches to be mechanical rather than battery operated. An Amish watch producer in Wisconsin had been been importing his casings from China, but he was looking for a supplier in the United States. He spoke with an Amish owned machine shop in Ohio that Sauder made parts for, and they referred him to Sauder. Sauder sent him a quote and the watchmaker immediately ordered 5,000 pieces, which Jay says he will make on the company’s INDEX C65 lathe. (11:00) Jay talks about a 2% discount he gives every customer if they pay within 10 days. He says 90% of his customers take this discount, everyone from the Amish watchmaker, to steel producers and Parker Hannifin. (15:00) Jay says the same principles that have grown his business within the Amish community have helped him in other spheres. He says that a steel company customer in Ohio refers new clients to Sauder Machine. Jay says he keeps the steel company as a middleman, rather than working with those new clients directly. This reinforces their cooperative relationship. (16:00) Noah asks Jay, what advice he would give a new company who does not have an existing network of customers to bring it referrals. Jay admits that he does not have experience in this scenario, but he suggests to try a service like manufacturing.com to source work, which hopefully would start a network of more customers. (18:30) Jay says since he took over the business operations of Sauder, he has had to go to longtime customers and dramatically raise prices because the company was losing money on various jobs. He says some of the customers left, but within a year they came back and didn’t even try to negotiate. He says if you do parts right the first time, customers are not going to want to go elseware. (20:30) Jay talks about the negotiation process with customers. Noah asks him what he would do in a hypothetical scenario where customer came to him with target a price of $2.00 per part, while he knew that Sauder could actually produce the part for $1.00. Jay says his first instinct is to offer to make the part for $1.75. This way Sauder makes some decent money, and the customer feels good as well. He says however, that if later he is able to improve his process internally to make the part cheaper, the price of the part to the customer will often stay the same. Sometimes he might lower the price to strengthen a relationship with a customer or stave off competition. (24:20) Jay talks about his constant reinvestment in his business. He always is concerned with upgrading equipment and taking care of employees. He says taking the right steps to do good work is one of the most important ways to keep customers and find new ones. If people know they can buy parts from his company and there won’t be problems they will continue to come back and bring him new customers. (27:20) Jay says he likes to buy equipment (always used) if he sees fantastic opportunities—he does not need to have work for it yet. He says the most money he has ever paid for a machine was $140,000 for a Traub he recently bought, which might have cost 6 or 7 times that price new. He says he is considering buying his first new machine, a Mazak Multiplex, for a Parker Hannifin job. To make a part come of the machine complete he needs a machining center that can do probing, induction hardening, and grinding. He says he is not afraid about losing the job because he could repurpose the machine. He also says that large companies often make decisions slowly. He says a part Sauder makes for Parker took two years from the time it made a sample part until being approved for production. Then it took another year to make one change on a print. (29:40) Noah asks Jay to tell him something he learned last week. Jay says he learned he can draw out a solid piece of steel rod cheaper than the price of tubing by using an Iscar SUMOCHAM drill. He says the material cost is about $.60 cheaper. Jay says his philosophy is “live and learn, crash and burn. If the tool doesn’t crash you’re not pushing it hard enough.” (32:45) Question: Is word of mouth the best way to find new work?  

Sometimes great conversations just happen. But what I’ve learned after 14 years selling used machines, and almost 250 podcast interviews, is that most conversations, even great ones, could be guided to be even better. Recently, I heard a podcast with journalist Polina Pompliano that reinforced techniques I’ve been using in business and my own journalism for years. It inspired a new episode from my YouTube show I Learned It on a Podcast, where I break down the best insights I find while listening to way too many podcasts on my commute. Think of it as my attempt to save you time by highlighting the episodes that actually teach you something useful. (Blog continues below video) Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Show Highlights Strategic Interrupting “Wait… you saw the Ayatollah speak in Iran?” I had to stop my guest Donato Notaro mid-sentence during a recent Swarfcast interview. He’d casually mentioned seeing Ayatollah Khomeini during a machine installation job in Iran in the ’80s—like it was just another day at the office. The interruption was important because it made sure the conversation directed to the interesting, surprising place that materialized. Great interviewers are editors in real time. They know when to stop someone and redirect the conversation toward what’s actually valuable. In business, your customers and suppliers often bury the lead. They’ll mention the real issue—cash flow problems, equipment failures, family dynamics—as an aside before launching into their rehearsed pitch. You have to stop them. The key is being polite about it. I’ll say, “Sorry, I hope you don’t mind if I interrupt you right here.” Then steer the conversation where it needs to go. Pre-Interviewing When I started Swarfcast in 2018, I thought pre-interviews would kill spontaneity, but it turns out  they leave room for plenty of spontaneity, just with the conversation focused on the most interesting, significant stuff. My interviewees have already told me the basic background—where they were born, that they like to play tennis, etc. But I learn the important things by asking them what they can teach our listeners. Before a business meeting, I look people up on LinkedIn to see what their position is at their company. It’s important to know if they are an owner or executive or a shop manager. I study their website to see what machines they have or what they make, so I can bring up other opportunities for machinery or M&A. Mirroring I’ve been using this conversation technique in negotiations for years, after learning it in Chris Voss’s best seller Never Split the Difference. When someone says something interesting, you repeat their last few words back to them. When people hear you repeat their words, they feel heard. They know they’ve been heard because you’ve recited what they said back to them. When people feel heard they feel in control, and they feel relaxed. This makes them open up to you, which is essential for a great negotiation or interview. You have the ability to control an interview or a conversation. It’s up to you to say the things to guide it where you want it to go. Watch the full video to see these techniques in action on my YouTube channel.

I don’t know about you, but when the tariffs hit on Liberation Day, April 2nd, we were like “Oh @#$%, is this really happening?” We watched our portfolios crash in real time. Our company lost half our profit from one deal overnight, and honestly, we had no clue what was coming next. On today’s show, Lloyd and I are discussing how tariffs blindsided the machining industry and how maybe we’re seeing the same panic-to-adaptation cycle we lived through during the pandemic. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Adapting to Tariffs As used machinery dealers at Graff-Pinkert, we watched deals evaporate when Trump’s tariffs hit. But after months of uncertainty and a dead-quiet first half of 2025, things seem to be finally picking up—maybe even ramping up fast. Maybe this is a little bit like how the machining business reacted during Covid. First came panic, then indecision, then gradually people figured out how to adapt. For two months after the tariffs hit, nobody in the machinery business did anything. Everyone was waiting to see what would happen next. But now Graff-Pinkert has been selling more machines, and several customers have told us that they’re getting a lot of work. One of our customers imports steel from Europe and stores it in Nucor’s warehouses. The end client assumes price risk rather than paying financing premiums. It’s supply chain innovation born from necessity. China: The Economic War Lloyd discusses the United States’ economic war with China. The manufacturing disparity is staggering—China produces several thousand ships annually while the United States produces five. China holds a lot of cards because so many companies have moved operations there, making us dependent on their supply chain. But China has enormous problems too. Their birth rate is falling and they’ve overbuilt enormously in real estate, with virtually whole cities that are empty. Still, they’re playing the long game and believe that over time, they will defeat the United States economically. AI and the Future of Machining Jobs We explore an unexpected career question: should young machinists choose cam-operated screw machines over CNC programming? With AI advancing rapidly in coding, the manual hands-on skills required for multi-spindle setup might prove more durable than programming skills that could be automated. Lloyd, at 80 years old, has become surprisingly adept with ChatGPT. I use AI for everything from triaging my son Abe’s pneumonia symptoms to writing persuasive emails. I even had a debate with Claude.ai about negotiation tactics when writing to a customer—Claude initially disagreed with my approach of acknowledging that a million-dollar machine price might seem high, but came around when I explained the Chris Voss negotiation philosophy of the accusations audit. Questions: What equipment have you bought this year? Are you looking more at used equipment?

Malachi Greb, my guest on today’s show, has a mission, “freeing humans, one robot at a time.” He is the founder of Elite Automation, a company that designs automated systems for manufacturing clients, taking manual processes and automating them with robotics, conveyors, vision, and more. They also provide robotic welding systems. Malachi and I talked about some of the latest technologies in the robotics field. Malachi also hosts the Manufacturing Come Up Podcast. We discussed his career journey, from dropping out of high school on purpose to founding his own company in his 20s, which has grown to 27 employees in just a few years. Perhaps the most interesting thing we talked about is how Malachi channels the same type of programming skills he uses in robotics to create a business system that enables him to scale his company. If you’re looking for an interview with an astute entrepreneur who doesn’t like to take no for an answer, or you just want to learn about industrial robots, this one’s for you. Question: If you could automate one task in your life, what would it be? Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link, or:                                                                                                  View the podcast our YouTube Channel. Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights Noah: What’s your story? How did you come to start Elite Automation? Malachi: I started off a little bit rough – dropped out of high school at 16 but got a quick GED at 17. I began college to be an electrical lineman but realized I needed a commercial trucking license for the job. At that point in time, I had a suspended license, and I was going to be suspended for like two years. So I pivoted to robotics. After graduating, I worked for a systems integrator, gaining skills in areas like robot and PLC programming, vision, motion control and safety systems.  Noah: What made you start Elite Automation? Malachi: The company I was at didn’t have the leadership that was needed to grow. It was in business for 20-something years at that point, and it was still a fairly small company.  I kind of had it in my mind at some point that I wanted to be an executive in a company. And, I don’t do very well in the corporate setting as far as climbing a ladder Noah: How did you break into working with big auto companies?  Malachi: They usually start small, outsourcing programming, then increasing project scope and cost if you deliver. Building relationships takes consistency and patience.   Noah: On your t-shirt it says, “Freeing People One Robot at a Time.” Do you see a parallel in how you have designed your business to free yourself from day-to-day 9-5 tasks?  Malachi: I came from a programming background. It’s definitely created a mentality of a very systematic approach that paired with my desire to scale the company and grow it to one of the largest companies in the world.  The objective is to free my time so I can operate as CEO of the company. Noah: Cobots versus standard industrial robots. Are Cobots a bit overrated? Malachi: I’d say they are overrated. Especially if they’re not equipped with other tools like a vision system, bin picking vision, things along those lines.  And people are trying to use them in complex situations, which doesn’t really help with their name. Also you probably lose somewhere around 30% speed (compared to traditional robots). But there are also really good use cases for them too. Like if something fits within their payload and it’s a slower cycle time. Palletization makes a lot of sense with collaborative robots because you don’t have to worry about putting up the full fencing around it. Noah: Thank you, Malachi. Note: This transcript excerpt is a condensed depiction of the interview, partially created with the assistance of AI. Various sentences and paragraphs have been combined or paraphrased to improve readability.

Most shop owners get comfortable after 50 years. John Griner gets uncomfortable on purpose. John has been making screw machine parts since 1979 while starting countless other businesses, which he refers to as “hobbies.” As a machinery dealer, I’ve bought and sold equipment from John over the years. He’s always a tough negotiator and always interested in trying new equipment and specking on opportunities that seem undervalued. And, he’s usually having fun with his business, which makes him fun to work with. Today we’re exploring what it means to build a life around calculated risks, being most comfortable when you’re being uncomfortable, and keeping business fun. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Interview Highlights From Race Cars to Entrepreneurship  John’s journey into manufacturing began when he was frustrated he couldn’t find reliable parts suppliers for his racing hobby. “The people making my (race car) parts, they’d either charge me too much, they wouldn’t get them done on time or they’d mess them up,” he recalls. So he did what any determined gearhead would do: he started making his own parts. What began as a solution to a personal problem became the foundation of Griner Engineering. After working as a tool and die maker for a semiconductor manufacturer and later an aircraft sheet metal fabricator, John’s boss gave him the news that would change everything: “Friday is going to be your last day working here. And I’m going to give you all the work that you possibly could want.” John’s reaction? “That was the happiest day in my life. I literally went up my little space and broke into tears.” When asked about his business philosophy, John admits he’s had to “have my head examined” for some of his decisions. But these weren’t reckless gambles—they were calculated risks that often paid off spectacularly. One of his biggest wins came in the early days when Ford threatened to cut prices in half and move work to Canada. Instead of accepting defeat, John bought his first Hydromat—a quarter-million-dollar investment that represented the entire value of his building at the time. “I didn’t think they’d succeed at it,” he says of the Canadian supplier. He was right. Not only did he keep the business, but Ford eventually became 70% of his revenue. Another memorable gamble came when a $2 million company took on a $4 million automotive job, requiring three Hydromats and $3.5 million in equipment. “One year made a million dollars profit off of it,” John notes, proving that sometimes the biggest risks yield the biggest rewards. The Art of Being Uncomfortable What sets John apart from many business owners is his relationship with discomfort. While most people seek stability and predictability, John thrives on challenge and change. “I like to be uncomfortable. I’m bored. I get bored,” he explains. “I’m uncomfortable when I’m comfortable.” This philosophy has kept him exploring new opportunities well into his 70s. His latest “hobby” involves 3D printing and manufacturing suppressors—a venture that combines his love of learning new processes with his knack for finding undervalued opportunities. John’s approach to new ventures is telling—he calls them “hobbies” rather than businesses. But don’t let the casual terminology fool you. “All my hobbies always have turned into businesses,” he explains. “Anything I do, I try to turn into a business.” From exotic animals (his first wife’s clowning business complete with monkeys and an alligator in the bathtub) to software development, from a failed Mexico plant to his current 3D printing venture, John has never been afraid to explore new territories. Throughout our conversation, John repeatedly emphasized the importance of enjoying what you do. “I think just enjoy what you’re doing. I personally myself, I like new opportunities, learning new things,” he says. His approach to business challenges is refreshingly pragmatic. When I asked about his tolerance for difficult employees, he admitted, “I don’t really demand respect out of people. If they can kind of figure it out… long as we get the job done, I’m not saying that’s the right way, but that’s just how I tend to do things.” Taking Calculated Risks When asked about the role of luck in his success, John points to several “last-minute saves” that kept his business afloat during tough times. In 2004, when material prices doubled and customers refused to pay, he sold his Mexico plant at the perfect moment, getting back the cash he needed to weather the storm. “I’ve had money fall in my lap a lot of times,” he admits with characteristic humility. For aspiring entrepreneurs, John’s advice is simple: “Find somebody with the money. Follow the money.” Rather than buying equipment first and hoping for work, he suggests finding customers who need work done, then building the capability to serve them. He also believes service industries might offer better opportunities than manufacturing for new entrepreneurs, citing higher hourly rates and lower capital requirements. At 71, John Griner continues to challenge himself with new ventures, new technologies, and new markets. His secret isn’t avoiding discomfort—it’s embracing it. In a world where most business owners his age are thinking about retirement, John is learning 3D printing and exploring new markets. “I need some challenge,” he says. “I like to keep playing the game.” For John Griner, the game is never over. That’s exactly how he likes it. Question: What’s the biggest risk you’ve taken in your business? How did it turn out?

On today’s episode we continue our season talking about companies who produce their own products. Our guest is George Breiwa, founder of DynaVap, a company that produces a unique type of vaporizer, using Index multi-spindles and CNC Swiss lathes. George says that one of the keys to the company’s success is growing and nurturing a community of passionate customers. Main Points George describes DynaVap’s VapCap 2020 M vaporizer, which he prefers to refer to as a selective thermal extraction tool. To operate the VapCap M a user removes a temperature indicating cap and places a chosen substance (often dry herb) for consumption inside the extraction chamber. Then the user applies a portable heat source to the VapCap such as a lighter. George also showcases a battery powered induction heater that can be used with the VapCap. (3:10)  George talks about the differences between thermal extraction (using a vaporizer) and smoking. He says that when burning a smokable substance, portions of it are burned away rather than extracted, whereas with thermal extraction, the plant material is heated to a temperature where the active compounds evaporate and can be extracted, leaving everything else behind with minimal chemical changes a no incomplete combustion byproducts like tar, resin and carbon monoxide. (Fingers crossed that I summarized him correctly!) (5:05) Noah asks George about the health ramifications of using DynaVap’s vaporizer. George says health and safety depends on the substance being extracted and if it is done in moderation. He suggests that using a VapCap is a healthier alternative to smoking. (6:40) George describes how DynaVap’s products are machined. Tube stock is custom drawn at the mill in variable thicknesses to manufacture the various parts. Again, he shows the 2020 M VapCap, which does not require tools to assemble or disassemble its four parts. The 2020 M can be purchased in a variety of colors. George describes one color called rosium (see video), which he describes as pink, gold, and blue with a little bit of green. The color is produced through a process called PVD (physical vapor deposition), which he says is very commonly used when producing carbide cutting tools for CNC machines. He also describes another model the company sells called AzuriuM, which starts as blue but changes to several different colors when exposed to heat. (8:40) George talks about the value proposition of DynaVap’s product, which uses an external heat source (like a lighter) rather than using a built-in battery like a typical vaporizer. He says the VapCap’s small size and portability are significant advantages. DynaVap’s products can fit in a person’s pocket and also are extremely durable because they don’t have sensitive electronic parts. He says a person can throw a VapCap on the ground or even drive over it with a car and it will hold up. He says he is confident DynaVap’s products will remain functional for 20 to 30 years if taken care of properly, and the only parts that may need to be replaced are the o-rings.(12:30) George talks about how DynaVap makes its products. He says the tip is machined on an INDEX multi-spindle (MS22-8 with double NCU). (14:20) George discusses the company’s approach to marketing its products. DynaVap focuses primarily on growing relationships with the customers it already has, giving them the tools and knowledge to talk about the product with others. He says the primary way people are introduced to the product is by personal interaction with others who already have it. (16:05) George talks about the impact of building a community around a product. He says many of DynaVap’s customers learn about its products in online communities like Reddit. He says the ability to customize a product to suit a personal preference is highly appealing to the company’s customers. DynaVap designs its products so that creative people can customize certain components. It shares necessary dimensions with the public and even supplies certain materials for customers to make after-market accessories like interchangeable stems. Meanwhile, the high-precision parts are still made by DynaVap. DynaVap’s community of users post photos online of their homemade components. (18:50) George explains that the starting cost of a DynaVap vaporizer is $75, while the top of the line models sell for $180-190. (21:05) George says the most important factor in the company’s growth is its user community and “social proof.” This wasn’t something he initially realized, but he discovered that the more the company supported and engaged with customers, the more the customers shared their love of the products with others. (22:30) George talks about how the DynaVap’s numerous online videos show how passionate he is about the company’s products. (23:55) George says that getting customers to have a great experience with a product requires educating them. He says DynaVap devices are simple to use, but they do require users to learn how to operate them properly. He draws a comparison to a chef’s knife. Most people know how to use a knife, but how many people do so correctly? (25:00) George states that while using DynaVap devices may seem to require more work than similar products, few customers seem concerned. The company’s user community also provides resources to overcome the initial learning curve. (26:35) George says community enrichment of customers is a very important aspect of bringing a new product to market. He says if the customers don’t know who you are and you don’t know who your customers are, then you need to familiarize yourself and engage with them, or you will not be successful. (27:55) George shares something he recently learned. He reports that traveling to Europe right now is not difficult. He just spent two weeks in Amsterdam on business. He traveled on commercial airlines in major airports and experienced no issues or concerns. His COVID-19 test was negative upon his return. (28:30) Question: What online communities do you belong to?

I know a ton of people reading this will relate to what I’m talking about: starting something that feels completely daunting. So here’s another blog about my new YouTube channel, I Learned It on a Podcast—partly because I desperately need viewers, but mostly because this episode hit me hard.” “For those new to the show: I Learned It on a Podcast is my attempt to create what I always wished existed—something that highlights amazing podcast episodes the way book reviewers highlight great books. I listen to podcasts constantly and kept finding incredible insights that I wanted to share.” Watch the video on youtube I’d already put out Episode 1 when I heard filmmaker Robert Rodriguez on The Tim Ferriss Show during my drive home from work. His insights energized me in a way I wasn’t expecting—which is perfect timing since I’m juggling an amazing wife, a three-year-old, a commute, and a podcast. I laugh to myself when I tell people, “I wasn’t busy enough, so I started a YouTube channel.” This episode ended up being particularly meaningful because it traces my own filmmaking evolution—from making goofy movies with friends in high school, to creating a short artsy film in college, to my 2007 reality show “Jew Complete Me” (yes, that was really the name), and now to this YouTube channel. It’s a reminder that creative journeys are never linear, and sometimes the best projects come from embracing uncertainty. Listen on your favorite podcast app using pod.link.        View the podcast at the bottom of this post or on our YouTube Channel Follow us on Social and never miss an update! Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/swarfcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/swarfcast/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/todays-machining-world Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmwswarfblog ************* Link to Graff-Pinkert’s Acquisitions and Sales promotion! ************* Key Takeaways from The Video Embrace Your Limitations as Creative Fuel Rodriguez made his breakthrough film “El Mariachi” with just $7,725, proving that constraints don’t have to be obstacles—they can be catalysts for extraordinary creativity. When film stock alone costs thousands of dollars, he had to shoot much of the film in one take. Manifest Who You Are Being One of the most powerful concepts discussed is Rodriguez’s approach to identity: he printed business cards calling himself a filmmaker before he’d made his feature film. As he puts it, you don’t call yourself an “aspiring filmmaker”—you’re either a filmmaker or you’re not. This mindset shift from aspiring to being is transformative. Use Daily Habits to Build Your New Identity After committing to doing one small action daily toward the channel—whether it’s watching a tutorial, brainstorming thumbnail ideas, or planning content—the consistent habit gradually built the identity of being a YouTuber. So claim your identity, embrace your constraints, and build small daily habits that support who you’re becoming. You don’t need clarity to begin—you just need to begin. Question: What are you putting off sharing?