Barbarians at the Gate

In this episode we chat with Shanghai-based author and editor Jacob Dreyer, a China watcher who writes with great insight and nuance about the shifting landscape of China-US relations. We touch on questions such as: Is the China model of governance outperforming Western liberal democracy? Is China winning the AI and technology wars? (Spoiler alert: That ship has sailed.) How do the architecture and logic of surveillance and information control systems differ between the U.S. and China? Is the current China-US geopolitical chill drifting toward a hot war? And finally, we unpack the question posed in Jacob’s guest op-ed in the New York Times: Is Trump’s America beginning to look more like China?Recent Articles from Jacob Dreyer:Trump's America is beginning to look more like China, New York Times, July 1, 2025The Industrial Party, The Ideas Newsletter, March 30, 2025Why China's Innovation Model is Thriving, Nature, Volume 642, June 26, 2025AI, China's Invisible Scaffolding, The Ideas Newsletter, July 10, 2025China in 2035, NOEMA, June 11, 2024

This week on the podcast, we explore the role of the horse in Chinese culture with author David Chaffetz, whose new book Raiders, Rulers, and Traders: The Horse and the Rise of Empires traces the sweeping impact of horse domestication across world civilizations. Chaffetz explains how equestrian cultures not only transformed warfare and mobility in China, but also reshaped the very boundaries of empire and cultural identity. Our conversation follows China’s long and complex relationship with the horse, from defending against nomadic cavalry along the northern frontier to importing prized horses through Silk Road diplomacy. Chaffetz recounts the challenges faced by Chinese dynasties in breeding horses to match the superior mounts of Mongol raiders. We also explore the echoes of China’s horse culture preserved in relics, from paintings and artifacts to the horse statues unearthed among the Terracotta Warriors.Link to the book:David Chaffetz, Raiders, Rulers, and Traders: The Horse and the Rise of Empires

In this classic episode of Barbarians at the Gate from 2020, David Moser and I examine Putonghua (普通话), the spoken language most people refer to as Mandarin, and ask the question: What is the point of Putonghua?We look at the question of what constitutes a dialect, and what defines a language, especially in a country as diverse as China? We look at the historical evolution of standardized speech in China, tracing a line from the Mandarin as spoken during the dynastic period, to "Guoyu 国语" (National Speech) in the Republican Period, and finally to Putonghua in the PRC. We also receive assistance from Zhang Yajun, who discusses with David the differences between the spoken language of Northern China, particularly around Beijing, and "Standard" Putonghua.Recommendations:A Billion Voices: China's Search for a Common Language by David Moser (Penguin, 2016)Dialect and Nationalism in China, 1860–1960 by Gina Anne Tam (Cambridge University Press, 2020)

In this special episode, we examine the Trump administration's ongoing attacks on higher education in America and their implications for the future of US-China academic exchanges. On May 29, the Department of Homeland Security banned Harvard from enrolling international students—a decision that is now being challenged in the courts even as the educational plans of nearly 7,000 students and post-grads are thrown into jeopardy. This announcement comes on the heels of US Secretary of State Marco Rubio's announcement last Wednesday that the State Department will start "aggressively" revoking the visas of Chinese students, starting with those with connections to the ruling Chinese Communist Party or studying in critical fields.David and Jeremiah convene an emergency meeting of the podcast to unpack these developments and how these announcements will affect the future of US-China educational exchanges, America's global influence in higher education, and economic competitiveness.Spoiler alert: They're both quite salty about the subject.

In this episode of Barbarians at the Gate, hosts Jeremiah Jenne and David Moser interview Steven Schwankert about his groundbreaking research into the forgotten story of the Chinese survivors of the Titanic disaster. Schwankert, author of The Six: The Untold Story of the Titanic's Chinese Survivors, details how he uncovered the remarkable tale of six Chinese men who survived the sinking in 1912—a story largely erased from historical records.The conversation explores how these third-class passengers achieved an extraordinary survival rate despite their disadvantaged position on the ship. Schwankert explains how their maritime experience as professional sailors working for the Donald Steamship line may have helped them make crucial life-saving decisions during the disaster.We talk to Steve about the thorough detective work he and his team carried out researching the lives of the six surviving Chinese passengers, including their challenges in identifying Romanized Chinese names that had been misread for decades. They also got hands-on, using a full-scale replica of a Titanic collapsible lifeboat built by students and teachers from the Western Academy of Beijing to test historical claims about how the Chinese survivors escaped.Throughout the episode, Schwankert addresses the discrimination and false narratives these men faced in the aftermath of the disaster, including libelous newspaper accounts claiming they had dressed as women or stowed away. The documentary based on this research received a wide theatrical release in China in 2021, bringing this important historical correction to audiences worldwide.Finally, we discuss racism, official policy, and historical bias, as well as Steven and his team’s work to recover the lost stories of the six Chinese men who survived the sinking of the Titanic.

In this episode, Jeremiah and David explore a topic drawn from their many years of experience with American study abroad programs: culture shock. Students studying in China often go through a challenging and transformative process of adjusting to a new cultural environment. In this episode, they explore key questions: Are there predictable stages of culture shock? How much does language proficiency influence adaptation? And are some students naturally better at navigating the difficulties of cultural adjustment? The experience of culture shock can lead not only to a deeper understanding of Chinese society but also to new insights into students' own cultural defaults. In today's post-COVID era—when fewer American students are going to China—the value of immersive, first-hand experience is more crucial than ever for building meaningful cross-cultural understanding.Jeremiah's review of Peking Picnic (1932) at China Books Review.

In this episode of Barbarians at the Gate, we talk with Emily Feng about her new book Let Only Red Flowers Bloom: Identity and Belonging in Xi Jinping’s China. Drawing on years of on-the-ground reporting for NPR, Emily paints a picture of how state control has intensified over recent years, reshaping Chinese society, politics, and culture. Emily explains how she wove together personal stories into the historical, cultural, and political contexts, offering insights into the lives of Uyghurs separated by detention camps, human rights lawyers battling censorship, Mongolian educators struggling to preserve their language, and ordinary citizens whose acts of remembrance have become quiet forms of resistance.

Manya Koetse, founder of What's on Weibo, offers a deep dive into the fascinating world of Chinese social media. She explores Weibo's role as a crucial platform reflecting China’s shifting nationalism and social dynamics. Manya discusses the nuances between Weibo and WeChat, highlighting how their user demographics and functionalities cater to different audiences. She reveals the challenges of curating content that resonates globally while navigating the complexities of online sentiment and cultural trends, providing listeners with valuable insights into an often-misunderstood digital landscape.

Chris Stewart, creator of The History of China podcast, shares his journey from Shanghai to Bozeman while diving deep into the intricacies of Chinese history. He reflects on the cultural implications of the pandemic and the importance of contextualizing historical narratives to grasp modern events. The conversation touches on authoritarianism, drawing parallels with China's Cultural Revolution, and highlights the challenges of engaging audiences with accurate historical content. Stewart emphasizes the role of social media in shaping cultural commentary amidst crises.

This week, we explore a topic close to our hearts: the world of jazz in China. Jeremiah and David bring their respective musical experience to the table—Jeremiah as a rock and blues keyboardist, and David as an active pianist in Beijing's jazz scene.David takes us back to his experiences in the 1980s, a period of renaissance for jazz in Beijing, when Chinese rock musicians began to discover—or rediscover—this intricate Western genre. During China's early "Reform and Opening Up" era, musicians with little prior exposure to jazz and scarce recordings embarked on the challenging journey of mastering its fundamentals: the elusive "swing" rhythm, the art of improvisation over complex harmonies, and the pursuit of a unique musical "voice." For them, jazz represented a liberating contrast to the structured pop music of their youth, offering a sense of artistic freedom and boundless creativity.David reports that a new generation of post-millennial jazz musicians has emerged who, having grown up with the genre, are quickly ascending to world-class status, gracing stages at prestigious international festivals.In a previous podcast, we covered the origins of the jazz scene in 1920s Shanghai in our interview with Marketus Presswood about his award-winning documentary "Yellow Jazz, Black Music." David's article on Jazz in Beijing: The Book of Changes: Twenty-five Years in Chinese Jazz Spotify Playlist of Contemporary Chinese Jazz