

Chief Change Officer
Vince Chan
What’s Stopping You from Outgrowing Yourself?
Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.
Chief Change Officer isn’t just another podcast. It ranks in the Top 3% globally, hit #1 in Careers (US), and cracked the Top 10 in Business (US)—because it offers what others don’t: expansive human intelligence, shared by the world’s most extraordinary thinkers and doers.
This is the space for transformation gurus, bold hearts, black sheep, and unsung visionaries. We go beyond digitized tips and AI-smooth talk. Here, you get real, time-tested, experience-driven wisdom—the kind that blends logic and love, art and science, hindsight and foresight.
For me, this show marks career transition #18. Across 17 transitions, I’ve been mentored by global changemakers who helped me emerge stronger and freer. Now, I’m passing that power forward—through raw, unfiltered conversations with extraordinary people across cultures, industries, and identities.
If you’re a growth progressive, a black horse, a visionary underdog, or someone boldly rewriting the rules—you’re already one of us. Because you are the Chief Change Officer.
Our mission?
To help you become wiser in action, clearer in thought, and more ambitious in motion—so you can outgrow yourself and unlock outcomes beyond imagination or calculation.
A better you is already unfolding.
130,000+ followers are outgrowing.
Join them on LinkedIn, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube @chiefchangeofficer.
Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.
Chief Change Officer isn’t just another podcast. It ranks in the Top 3% globally, hit #1 in Careers (US), and cracked the Top 10 in Business (US)—because it offers what others don’t: expansive human intelligence, shared by the world’s most extraordinary thinkers and doers.
This is the space for transformation gurus, bold hearts, black sheep, and unsung visionaries. We go beyond digitized tips and AI-smooth talk. Here, you get real, time-tested, experience-driven wisdom—the kind that blends logic and love, art and science, hindsight and foresight.
For me, this show marks career transition #18. Across 17 transitions, I’ve been mentored by global changemakers who helped me emerge stronger and freer. Now, I’m passing that power forward—through raw, unfiltered conversations with extraordinary people across cultures, industries, and identities.
If you’re a growth progressive, a black horse, a visionary underdog, or someone boldly rewriting the rules—you’re already one of us. Because you are the Chief Change Officer.
Our mission?
To help you become wiser in action, clearer in thought, and more ambitious in motion—so you can outgrow yourself and unlock outcomes beyond imagination or calculation.
A better you is already unfolding.
130,000+ followers are outgrowing.
Join them on LinkedIn, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube @chiefchangeofficer.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 11, 2024 • 35min
#97 Juliana Schroeder Phd: How to Stay Human in a World of AI Machines
Juliana Schroeder, Associate Professor at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business, unpacks the evolving dynamics of communication in the human-machine era.Juliana dives into the intersection of human and machine interaction, highlighting how technological advancements like generative AI are reshaping how we connect, collaborate, and convey ideas. From leveraging paralinguistic cues to mastering the art of switching between communication modalities, Juliana emphasizes the timeless value of empathy, adaptability, and emotional intelligence in navigating a world increasingly mediated by technology.Key Highlights of Our Interview:The Mind Behind the Machine“AI isn’t just changing technology; it’s reshaping how we think, act, and perceive power. When virtual assistants act human-like, they give users a psychological boost that can even alter decision-making.”Confirmation Bias Central“When users consult ChatGPT, it often mirrors their ideas, reinforcing their thoughts. It’s a colleague that nods a lot but rarely challenges, creating a unique kind of echo chamber.”Medium Matters“From text to video to voice, the platform you choose shapes how your message lands. Want to make a strong first impression? Skip the text and go for face-to-face—or at least a well-delivered elevator pitch.”Humanize the Experience“Paralinguistic cues—like tone of voice and facial expressions—are what make conversations truly human. To connect, think beyond words and embrace the richness of full-spectrum communication.”High Stakes, High Scrutiny“In critical domains like hiring, people demand transparency. The idea of an algorithm handling everything creates unease, sparking backlash when decisions feel like they emerge from a ‘black box.’”_________________________Connect with us:Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Juliana Schroeder, PHD_________________________--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Deep Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives, Visionary Underdogs,TransformationGurus & Bold Hearts.6 Million+ All-Time Downloads.Reaching 80+ Countries Daily.Global Top 3% Podcast.Top 10 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>100,000+ subscribers are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 10, 2024 • 43min
#96 Mary Shea PhD: Cracking the Code for Hidden Talent
Mary Shea, General Manager for North America at HireQuotient and former co-CEO of Mediafly, takes us on a tech-fueled journey through the wild world of AI-driven hiring.
From cracking the code on hidden talent pools to dodging ghosting recruiters, Mary’s got tips for everyone—job seekers, recruiters, and those just trying to figure out if their LinkedIn profile is detailed enough. She even schools us on networking, blending classic human touch with digital-era wizardry. If you’ve ever wondered how to outsmart the bots while keeping your humanity intact, this episode is your playbook—with a side of humor and heart.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
AI as a Recruiter’s Right Hand
“Offloading 75% of the recruiting workload, generative AI and automation work overtime, tackling bias and sourcing talent far beyond the usual platforms.”
Beyond LinkedIn
“Why limit your search to one platform? With integrations across tools like Crunchbase and Apollo, HireQuotient casts a wide net, uncovering passive and active candidates who often fly under the radar.”
Championing Diversity
“When male-dominated results dominated a recruiter’s search, HireQuotient adapted with a few new prompts, demonstrating how AI can open doors for underrepresented talent.”
White Glove Experience, AI-Style
“Automation doesn’t mean impersonal. By automating outreach and early-stage screening, recruiters had more time to build personal connections and keep candidates engaged.”
Omnichannel Humanity
“Use every channel, but never forget the power of face-to-face. It’s not just networking; it’s feeding your humanity.”
The Human Advantage
“AI might read resumes, but humans hire. Keep networking, stay visible, and remember that meaningful relationships can outlast any algorithm.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Mary Shea PhD
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5+ Millions Downloads
80+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 10, 2024 • 41min
#95 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part Two
Greg Morley isn’t your average HR guy. He’s the former DEI and HR head at Moët Hennessy, Disney, and Hasbro—and the brains behind Bond, the book on belonging your workplace desperately needs.
In Part 2 of this two-part series, Greg breaks down the complexities of implementing DEI in global organizations. He shares how rewiring systems—not just setting quotas—creates real inclusion. From tackling unconscious bias to aligning leadership with grassroots energy, Greg highlights the power of authentic cultural shifts. He also contrasts Eastern and Western DEI strategies, showing how understanding local values can foster belonging.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
The Crisis of Workplace Loneliness
“Workplace loneliness isn’t just a personal issue—it’s a challenge organizations must tackle to foster belonging and inclusion.”
The Employee-Employer Power Flip
“The workplace dynamic has shifted—it’s now a buyer’s market for employees who demand recognition, safety, and belonging.”
Redefining Diversity
“Diversity isn’t just what you see—it’s also life experiences, generational perspectives, languages, and abilities, visible or hidden. Most of our diversity at work is invisible. Who someone marries, whether they have kids, or cognitive differences often go unnoticed—but they matter.”
Start With Yourself
“Change begins within. Reflecting on personal experiences of inclusion or exclusion can help leaders empathize and create a more welcoming environment for others.”
East Meets West
“In the East, inclusion feels more organic, driven by community and connection. In the West, it’s often about achieving measurable outcomes and hitting diversity targets.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Greg Morley
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5+ Millions Downloads
80+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 9, 2024 • 31min
#94 Greg Morley: Turning DEI Drama into Workplace Wins – Part One
Greg Morley isn’t your average HR guy. He’s the former DEI and HR head at Moët Hennessy, Disney, and Hasbro—and the brains behind Bond, the book on belonging your workplace desperately needs.
In Part 1 of this two-part series, Greg spills how to ditch boring corporate jargon and actually create cultures where people feel seen, heard, and ready to crush it. From rewiring outdated systems to tackling bias head-on, Greg brings humor, grit, and a whole lot of wisdom. Oh, and he’ll show you why making your team feel like they belong isn’t just “nice”—it’s how you win.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
The Inspiration Behind the Book
“The idea for my first book, Bond, came from a friend’s suggestion that I had an obligation to share my experiences. That idea sparked a journey to explore what it takes for any organization to create a true sense of belonging.”
Cutting Through the Noise
“In a world polarized by amplified voices on the extremes—whether labeled woke or anti-woke—my focus is on the middle ground. Most people want to feel safe, heard, and valued at work, free from political distractions.”
A Sandwich Approach to DEI
“Balancing a top-down strategy with grassroots alignment ensures each Maison retains its uniqueness while embracing broader organizational values to drive meaningful DEI outcomes.”
Facing the First Challenge: Self-Awareness
“The journey began with unconscious bias training for all employees, helping them recognize unintentional biases shaped by upbringing or experience. This laid the groundwork for open, honest conversations about diversity and inclusion.”
Leadership Advocacy is Key
“There’s nothing more powerful than a CEO advocating for DEI consistently. A strong top-down message, combined with grassroots energy, creates the momentum needed for real change.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Greg Morley
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5+ Millions Downloads
80+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 8, 2024 • 26min
#93 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part Two
In the second episode of this two-part series, Mary Shea, General Manager of Hire Quotient and former co-CEO of Mediafly, delves into the co-CEOship model—a rising approach in today’s complex business landscape.
With growing challenges for single leaders, she explains how trust, complementary skills, and shared vision are essential for success. Mary candidly discusses the model’s benefits, like shared workload and greater impact, alongside challenges like slower decision-making. She also highlights the importance of open communication, board oversight, and coaching as “umpires” to navigate conflicts. This episode offers timely insights for leaders exploring innovative ways to thrive in a rapidly changing world.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
AI’s Impact on Sales Teams
“AI is paving the way for smaller, more agile sales teams, moving away from the traditional 80/20 rule toward a future where 80% of the team delivers 100% of the revenue.”
The Rise of the Consultant Seller
“AI acts as a coach on the salesperson’s shoulder, helping them become more advisory-oriented, and enabling deeper impact in customer interactions.”
Why Two CEOs?
“In today’s complex world, no single leader can address everything, from geopolitical challenges to the rapid pace of AI innovation. The co-CEO model allows for a divide-and-conquer approach.”
Challenges of Co-Leadership
“Decision-making can be slower, and sometimes we wish we could just do things our way. But alignment is key, and when it works, it’s incredibly impactful.”
Who’s the Umpire?
“Our ‘umpire’ is our investor and board. If we truly can’t resolve a disagreement, we rely on their input as the ultimate decision-maker.”
The Professional Marriage
“Co-CEOship is like a professional marriage—it requires resilience, commitment, and sometimes even a ‘marriage counselor’ in the form of an executive coach to navigate tough patches.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Mary Shea PhD
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5+ Millions Downloads
80+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 7, 2024 • 22min
#92 Mary Shea PhD: From Oboes to Outcomes – A Journey Through Change and Sales Leadership – Part One
In this first episode of a two-part series, Mary Shea, General Manager of Hire Quotient and former co-CEO of Mediafly, shares her remarkable journey from classical musician to sales leader and diversity advocate.
Mary reflects on the pivotal moments that shaped her career, including the risks she’s taken and the transformative lessons learned. As a proud member of the LGBTQ community, she discusses her mission to amplify underrepresented voices and drive equity in sales leadership.
Drawing from her time as Principal Analyst at Forrester, Mary provides valuable insights into the digitization of sales and the role of creativity in building high-performing teams. Packed with passion, advocacy, and actionable advice, this episode sets the stage for an inspiring conclusion in Part Two.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
From Music to Business
“I started as a classical musician, playing with the Mexico City Philharmonic and Guadalajara Symphony. But when the career palette felt too small, I took a leap into business, changing my life forever.”
Sales: The Great Equalizer
“Sales is one of the few fields where hard work and skill can lead to financial independence, regardless of where you start. That independence allows you to make meaningful changes in your life and others’.”
Playing Catch-Up with Purpose
“Coming into the business world with a PhD put me 10 years behind my peers, but it also ignited a fire. I moved quickly, knowing every opportunity was critical to closing that gap.”
Creating the Playbook
“I’m not just about managing to a playbook—I love creating it. The intellectual stimulation of building strategies with teams and seeing them succeed is what drives me.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Mary Shea PhD
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5 Millions+ Downloads
50+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 7, 2024 • 28min
#91 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part Two
In this second episode of the two-part series, James Hilovsky delves deeper into the mindset and qualities required for success in franchising.
Drawing on his extensive experience, James highlights the flip side of athletic traits—how passion and ego can sometimes derail franchisees, but how the right systems and guidance can bring them back on track. He shares insights into why franchising isn’t just about following a playbook but also about owning your business and betting on yourself.
For corporate professionals and non-athletes, James emphasizes the importance of overcoming fear, finding the right franchise fit, and partnering with a supportive franchisor. Packed with actionable advice, this episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to take the leap into franchising and build something truly their own.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
When Ego Enters the Game
“For highly successful athletes, ego can become a stumbling block. In their circle, they’re often surrounded by ‘yes’ people—but in franchising, the system is the boss.”
Coachable or Combative?
“Not every athlete thrives in a franchise model. If they’re resistant to coaching or feel they don’t need the franchise system, they might be better suited for entrepreneurship.”
From Control to Chaos
“Athletes transition from highly controlled environments to the unpredictable world of business. Education and mindset shifts are crucial to navigate these new challenges.”
The Athlete’s Advantage: Resilience
“Athletes are no strangers to failure. In baseball, hitting .300 is a win—despite failing seven out of ten times. That resilience becomes a powerful tool in business.”
The Franchisor as a Partner
“Your franchisor should be more than a brand—they’re your business partner. Look for one that offers strong support and aligns with your vision for success.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: James Hilovsky
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5 Millions+ Downloads
50+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 6, 2024 • 27min
#90 James Hilovsky: Guiding NBA and NFL Athletes Through the Bridge of Sports and Franchising – Part One
In this first episode of a two-part series, James Hilovsky takes us from the baseball field to the world of franchising, sharing how athletes possess unique qualities that make them exceptional business owners.
Having transitioned from professional sports to a successful career in the restaurant and franchise industries, James highlights the parallels between following a coach’s playbook and executing a franchise system. With a focus on risk-taking, leadership, and embracing coaching, James explains how athletes are naturally equipped to thrive in franchising. He also shares his passion for guiding athletes and professionals through the franchising process, helping them avoid pitfalls and find opportunities that align with their goals.
Whether you’re an athlete or just looking to take the leap into business, this episode offers valuable insights to inspire your journey.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
From Baseball to Business
“My baseball career was short-lived due to injury, but transitioning to the restaurant industry felt natural. It was another kind of team—working together toward a shared goal.”
Systems That Lead to Success
“Franchises, like sports leagues, refine their systems to avoid pitfalls. They hand franchisees a proven playbook to help them stay on course and achieve their goals.”
Athletes and Franchising: A Natural Fit
“Athletes already understand the value of following systems and being part of a team. That mindset translates seamlessly into running a successful franchise.”
From Coach to Franchisor
“In the franchise world, the franchisor acts like a head coach—laying out the strategies, providing guidance, and ensuring the business operates at peak performance.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: James Hilovsky
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5 Millions+ Downloads
50+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 6, 2024 • 26min
#89 Wayland Lum: From Corporate Comfort to Purposeful Leadership
In this episode, Wayland Lum, CEO of Copperbox Leadership Advisory and former leader at Chicago Booth, Korn Ferry, and Nvidia, shares his journey from art supplies to boardrooms.
Blending creativity with business psychology, Wayland redefines what it means to be a modern leader. With a passion for helping leaders reach their full potential, he explains how betting on oneself can lead to transformational change—not just in business, but in life.
From navigating the balance of fear and courage to embracing core purpose, Wayland reveals the power of leadership grounded in authenticity and impact. His insights extend far beyond corporate walls, showing how intentional leadership can create a ripple effect that positively shapes the world. If you’ve ever considered stepping out of your comfort zone and betting on your own vision, this episode will leave you inspired—and maybe a little bit braver.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
Breaking Free from Prestige
“Leaving prestigious organizations for my own leadership practice wasn’t easy. Many stick to the comfort of a stable paycheck and a corporate name—but I felt called to something more.”
Why Modern Leadership Matters
“In a world of constant flux, leadership grounded in systemic and timeless principles offers the resilience and clarity needed to navigate both societal and business challenges.”
The Private Equity Sprint
“Private equity moves fast. Our work helps leaders in portfolio companies close leadership gaps quickly, aligning their capabilities with quarter-by-quarter business demands.”
Inspiration Starts Within
“To inspire others, you must first be inspired. Your energy, your spark, comes from operating with purpose—and trust me, people can tell if it’s there or not.”
The Wisdom of Acceptance
“Modern leadership is about accepting the full spectrum of emotions—joy, fear, grief, and love—and leading with a wisdom that reflects this understanding of human nature.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Wayland Lum
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5 Millions+ Downloads
50+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dec 5, 2024 • 32min
#88 Wayne Turmel: Hybrid Work Is Not a Strategy—It’s a Hostage Negotiation
Wayne Turmel, co-author of The Long-Distance Leader, joins the show to unpack the chaos of remote and hybrid leadership. Is hybrid work really a strategy?
Wayne says it’s more like a game of tug-of-war—companies push for office days, employees dig in their heels, and somehow three days in the office feels like a compromise nobody loves. He dives into how proximity bias sneaks into decision-making, why intentionality is the secret sauce for great leadership, and how balancing deep work with collaboration can save everyone’s sanity. Whether it’s giving feedback on time (without needing to see someone’s face) or managing your team across time zones, Wayne serves up leadership advice with wit, practicality, and just the right amount of Zoom fatigue relatability.
Key Highlights of Our Interview:
Lessons from History’s Leaders
“Genghis Khan ruled half the world without a Webex meeting. Julius Caesar? Brilliant in the field, but the office politics got him. Leading from afar isn’t new—it’s just evolved.”
The Proximity Bias Trap
“In hybrid setups, those in the office often get more attention and opportunities—intentionally or not. Awareness is key to ensure fairness across the team.”
Bridging the Trust Gap
“Leadership tasks haven’t changed, but relationships, trust, and proactive communication now require a conscious effort to avoid gaps and micromanagement.”
The Synchronous-Asynchronous Dance
“Effective hybrid work balances synchronous collaboration with asynchronous deep work. It’s not about clocking in at the same time but about delivering results with flexibility.”
Intentionality Over Chaos
“Hybrid solutions require intentionality. Schedule in-office days for meetings and collaboration. Leave remote days for focused work. Let people own their time to produce quality results.”
_________________________
Connect with us:
Host: Vince Chan | Guest: Wayne Turmel
Chief Change Officer: Make Change Ambitiously.
Experiential Human Intelligence for Growth Progressives
Global Top 3% Podcast on Listen Notes
World's #1 Career Podcast on Apple
Top 1: US, CA, MX, IE, HU, AT, CH, FI, JP
2.5 Millions+ Downloads
50+ Countries
--Chief Change Officer--Change Ambitiously. Outgrow Yourself.Open a World of Expansive Human Intelligencefor Transformation Gurus, Black Sheep,Unsung Visionaries & Bold Hearts.EdTech Leadership Awards 2025 Finalist.20 Million+ All-Time Downloads.80+ Countries Reached Daily.Global Top 1% Podcast.Top 5 US Business.Top 1 US Careers.>>>180,000+ are outgrowing. Act Today.<<<See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.