
Changelog Interviews
Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source & leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms & communities are welcome.
Latest episodes

Nov 20, 2024 • 1h 48min
Two tickets for Departure, please
Today we’re joined by a dynamic duo, Helena Zhang & Tobias Fried, who team up on all sorts of digital passion projects. This includes the wildly popular Phosphor Icons plus their latest joint, Departure Mono, a monospaced pixel font with a lo-fi technical vibe… that both Adam & Jerod are pretty much in love with. We discuss their tastes & inspirations, how they collab, making money on passion projects like these, velvet ropes & so much more.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 10 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun to get started in minutes.
Timescale – Purpose-built performance for AI Build RAG, search, and AI agents on the cloud and with PostgreSQL and purpose-built extensions for AI: pgvector, pgvectorscale, and pgai.
Wix Studio – Wix Sudio is for devs who build websites, sell apps, go headless, or manage clients. Integrate, extend and write custom scripts in a VS code-based IDE. Leverage zero set up dev, test and production environments. Ship faster with an AI code assistant. And work with Wix headless API’s on any tech stack.
WorkOS – A platform that gives developers a set of building blocks for quickly adding enterprise-ready features to their application. Add Single Sign-On (Okta, Azure, Google, Microsoft OAuth), sync users from any SCIM directory, HRIS integration, audit trails (SIEM), free magic link sign-in. WorkOS is designed for developers and offers a single, elegant interface that abstracts dozens of enterprise integrations. Learn more and get started at WorkOS.com
Featuring:Helena Zhang – LinkedIn, Mastodon, XTobias Fried – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Project sites
Departure Mono
Phosphor Icons
Fonts mentioned
Iosevka
Berkeley Mono
Commit Mono
IBM Plex
Unifont
Other cool stuff
A great library of old PC fonts
Somebody made the game from Severance!
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Nov 14, 2024 • 47min
Gotta give to get back
We’re on the main stage at THAT Conference with Danny Thompson. He has an amazing story and journey into tech. Thanks to our friends at Cloudflare for helping us get to THAT Conference earlier this year to enable this conversation.
Special thanks to Nick Nisi and Clark Sell for coming in clutch and getting us the audio to ship this show!
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 9 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Code breaks, fix it faster. Don’t just observe. Take action. Sentry is the only app monitoring platform built for developers that gets to the root cause for every issue. 100,000+ growing teams use sentry to find problems fast. Use the code CHANGELOG when you sign up to get $100 OFF the team plan.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun to get started in minutes.
AssemblyAI – Turn voice data into summaries with AssemblyAI’s leading Speech AI models. Built by AI experts, their Speech AI models include accurate speech-to-text for voice data (such as calls, virtual meetings, and podcasts), speaker detection, sentiment analysis, chapter detection, PII redaction, and more.
Featuring:Danny Thompson – GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Nov 6, 2024 • 1h 46min
ANTHOLOGY — Packages, pledges & protocols
The hallway track at All Things Open 2024 — features Carl George, Principal Software Engineer at Red Hat for a discussion on the state of open source enterprise linux and RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux), Max Howell, creator of Homebrew and tea.xyz which offers rewards and recognition to open source maintainers, and Chad Whitacre, Head of Open Source at Sentry about the launch of Open Source Pledge and their plans to helps businesses and orgs to do the right thing and support open source.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 13 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Code breaks, fix it faster. Don’t just observe. Take action. Sentry is the only app monitoring platform built for developers that gets to the root cause for every issue. 100,000+ growing teams use sentry to find problems fast. Use the code CHANGELOG when you sign up to get $100 OFF the team plan.
Coder.com – Instantly launch fully configured cloud development environments (CDE) and make your first commit in minutes. No need to traverse README files or await onboarding queues. Learn more at Coder.com
Eight Sleep – Take your sleep and recovery to the next level. Go to eightsleep.com/changelog and use the code CHANGELOG to get $350 off your very own Pod 4 Ultra. You can try it for free for 30 days - but we’re confident you will not want to return it. Once you experience AI-optimized sleep, you’ll wonder how you ever slept without it. Currently shipping to: United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Europe, and Australia.
AssemblyAI – Turn voice data into summaries with AssemblyAI’s leading Speech AI models. Built by AI experts, their Speech AI models include accurate speech-to-text for voice data (such as calls, virtual meetings, and podcasts), speaker detection, sentiment analysis, chapter detection, PII redaction, and more.
Featuring:Carl George – GitHub, LinkedIn, XMax Howell – GitHub, XChad Whitacre – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
RHEL
AlmaLinux
Rocky Linux
tea.xyz
opensourcepledge.com
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Oct 31, 2024 • 2h 2min
Rails is having a moment (again)
(Includes expletives) David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner of 37signals, joined the show to discuss this Rails moment and renewed excitement for Rails. We discuss hard opinions, developers being cooked too long in the JavaScript soup, finding developer joy, the pros and cons of the BDFL, the ongoing WordPress drama with WP Engine, and what’s to come in Rails 8.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 1 minute at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun to get started in minutes.
Speakeasy – Production-ready, enterprise-resilient, best-in-class SDKs crafted in minutes. Speakeasy takes care of the entire SDK workflow to save you significant time, delivering SDKs to your customers in minutes with just a few clicks! Create your first SDK for free!
WorkOS – A platform that gives developers a set of building blocks for quickly adding enterprise-ready features to their application. Add Single Sign-On (Okta, Azure, Google, Microsoft OAuth), sync users from any SCIM directory, HRIS integration, audit trails (SIEM), free magic link sign-in. WorkOS is designed for developers and offers a single, elegant interface that abstracts dozens of enterprise integrations. Learn more and get started at WorkOS.com
Unblocked – Other developer tools can’t tell you how your codebase works and why. Unblocked can. We augment your code with context from Slack, Confluence, Jira, and more, so you get accurate answers without having to search for them. Sign up for free at getunblocked.com
Featuring:David Heinemeier Hansson – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Rails World 2024 Keynote - David Heinemeier Hansson
What’s New in Ruby on Rails 8
Rails is leaning hard into SQLite right now
The Empowered Programmer (Justin Searls) - Rails World 2024
Kamal - Deploy web apps anywhere
LiteFS - Distributed SQLite
Turso - libsql
RubyGems.org
Automattic is doing open source dirty
Matt’s “Response to DHH”
Capture less than you create
My Freedom of Speech
Open Source and Power with Matt Mullenweg (Rework podcast)
Breaking Camp
Our cloud-exit savings will now top ten million over five years
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Oct 24, 2024 • 1h 24min
Elasticsearch is open source, again
Shay Banon, the creator of Elasticsearch and founder of Elastic, dives into the exciting return of Elasticsearch to open source. He discusses the challenging decision-making processes surrounding licensing and trademark law. Listeners will learn about the impact of this shift on both users and businesses, and the competition with Amazon's OpenSearch. Shay emphasizes the importance of community involvement to preserve open-source integrity and reflects on the cultural connections between innovation and creativity in tech.

Oct 17, 2024 • 1h 23min
Lessons from 10k hours of programming (remastered)
Kurt Mackey, Co-founder and CEO of Fly.io, and Ant Wilson, CTO at Supabase, dive into programming mastery after 10,000 hours of coding. They discuss the evolution of developer needs, advocating for modern cloud solutions that enhance usability. The conversation highlights complexities in software, like security vulnerabilities and the importance of code quality. They reflect on emotional ties to coding and stress the significance of balancing simplicity and functionality. Join them for insights that evolve the developer experience!

Oct 10, 2024 • 1h 47min
The Moneyball approach
John Nunemaker, a Rails-based SaaS expert and entrepreneur, dives into his recent acquisition of Fireside and shares his journey with Very Good Software. He discusses the intricacies of valuing SaaS companies, emphasizing long-term vision and cash flow management. John reflects on his experiences with debugging techniques and the role of telemetry in application monitoring. Additionally, he navigates the challenges of the podcast landscape, balancing entrepreneurial ventures, and the importance of work-life balance in tech.

Oct 2, 2024 • 1h 27min
Free-threaded Python
Pablo Galindo, co-host of the Core.py podcast and contributor to Python core development, joins the discussion on the groundbreaking changes in Python 3.13. They highlight the experimental option to remove the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL), paving the way for true parallelism. The conversation dives into enhancing debug capabilities, challenges in cloud development, and the implications of threading updates. They also touch on future aspirations for Python, emphasizing community involvement and ongoing innovations in usability and error handling.

Sep 26, 2024 • 1h 15min
Leveling up JavaScript with Deno 2
Jerod is joined by Ryan Dahl to discuss his second take on leveling up JavaScript developers all around the world. Jerod asks Ryan why not try to fix or fork Node instead of starting fresh, how Deno (the open source project) can avoid the all too common rug pull (not cool) scenario, what’s new in Deno 2 & their pragmatic decision to support npm, they talk JSR, they talk Deno KV & SQLite, they even talk about Ryan’s open letter to Oracle in an attempt to free the unused “JavaScript” trademark from the giant’s clutches.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 11 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Assembly AI – Turn voice data into summaries with AssemblyAI’s leading Speech AI models. Built by AI experts, their Speech AI models include accurate speech-to-text for voice data (such as calls, virtual meetings, and podcasts), speaker detection, sentiment analysis, chapter detection, PII redaction, and more.
Socket – Secure your supply chain and ship with confidence. Install the GitHub app, book a demo or learn more
Supabase – Supabase just finished their 12th launch week! Check it out. Or get a month of Supabase Pro (FREE) by going to supabase.com/changelogpod
Speakeasy – Production-ready, enterprise-resilient, best-in-class SDKs crafted in minutes. Speakeasy takes care of the entire SDK workflow to save you significant time, delivering SDKs to your customers in minutes with just a few clicks! Create your first SDK for free!
Featuring:Ryan Dahl – Website, GitHub, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Node.js: The Documentary - YouTube
From Node.js to Deno: How It All Began - YouTube
10 Things I Regret About Node.js - YouTube
JSR: the JavaScript Registry
rusty_v8: Rust bindings for the V8 JavaScript engine
JavaScript™ (Dear Oracle)
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 18, 2024 • 1h 24min
The best, worst codebase
Jimmy Miller talks to us about his experience with a legacy codebase at his first job as a programmer. The codebase was massive, with hundreds of thousands of lines of C# and Visual Basic, and a database with over 1,000 columns. Let’s just say Jimmy got into some stuff. There’s even a Gilfoyle involved. This episode is all about his adventures while working there.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 12 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Assembly AI – Turn voice data into summaries with AssemblyAI’s leading Speech AI models. Built by AI experts, their Speech AI models include accurate speech-to-text for voice data (such as calls, virtual meetings, and podcasts), speaker detection, sentiment analysis, chapter detection, PII redaction, and more.
Supabase – Supabase just finished their 12th launch week! Check it out. Or get a month of Supabase Pro (FREE) by going to supabase.com/changelogpod
Speakeasy – Production-ready, enterprise-resilient, best-in-class SDKs crafted in minutes. Speakeasy takes care of the entire SDK workflow to save you significant time, delivering SDKs to your customers in minutes with just a few clicks! Create your first SDK for free!
Test Double – Find out more about Test Double’s software investment problem solvers at testdouble.com.
Featuring:Jimmy Miller – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
The best, worst codebase
Join our Zulip (It’s better than Slack)
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
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