

Changelog Interviews
Changelog Media
Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source & leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms & communities are welcome.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 24, 2023 • 1h 23min
The serenity of building your own OS
This week we’re talking to Andreas Kling about SerenityOS and Ladybird. Andreas started SerenityOS as a means of therapy. It’s self-described as a love letter to “‘90s user interfaces with a custom Unix-like core.” Andreas previously worked at Nokia and later at Apple on the WebKit team, so he had an itch to do something along the lines of a browser, and that’s where Ladybird came from. We get into the details of compilers, OSs, browsers, web specifications, and the love of making software.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 5 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Convex – Convex is a better type of backend — the full-stack TypeScript development platform that lets you replace your database, server functions, and glue code. Get started at convex.dev
Tailscale – Simple, secure networks for teams of any scale. Built on WireGuard.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Andreas Kling – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Sponsor Andreas’s work on GitHub Sponsors
Andreas Kling on YouTube
serenityOS
Ladybird
The Jakt programming language
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 17, 2023 • 1h 31min
30 years of Debian
Jonathan Carter, the current Debian Project Lead serving his fourth term, reflects on the 30-year journey of Debian. He shares personal anecdotes about transitioning from a Windows user to an open-source advocate and discusses the project’s unique volunteer-run structure. The conversation touches on Debian's open-source guidelines, versatility as a universal OS, and its surprising role in commercial use. Carter also addresses community engagement and outreach initiatives to support underrepresented groups, emphasizing the collaborative spirit that defines Debian.

Aug 9, 2023 • 1h 8min
Thinking outside the box of code
Leslie Lamport, computer scientist and mathematician, talks about creating LaTeX and TLA+, the importance of code descriptions, upfront design, thinking outside the code box, developing algorithms, and thinking algorithmically with TLA Plus.

Aug 3, 2023 • 1h 38min
DX on DX
This week Adam is joined by Abi Noda, founder and CEO of DX to talk about DX AKA DevEx (or the long-form Developer Experience). Since the dawn of software development there has been this push to understand what makes software teams efficient, but more importantly what does it take to understand developer productivity? That’s what Abi has been focused on for the better part of the last 8 years of his career. He started a company called Pull Panda that was acquired by GitHub, spent a few years there on this problem before going out on his own to start DX which helps startups to the fortune 500 companies gather real insights that leads to real improvement.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 33 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Watch Lazar Nikolov livestream on YouTube at youtube.com/@nikolovlazar. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months.
Caisy – Caisy is the headless CMS that gives developers endless possibilities. Learn more at caisy.io
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Abi Noda – Website, GitHub, LinkedInAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
DX
GitHub acquires Pull Panda
DevOps Research and Assessment
A Better Way to Measure Developer Productivity
DevEx: What Actually Drives Productivity
How Google Measures and Manages Tech Debt
Defining, Measuring, and Managing Technical Debt
Changelog Interviews #527: What it takes to scale engineering (with Rachel Potvin)
Dr. Nicole Forsgren Joins DX
For our ++ subs
$STDOUT
Changelog Interviews #466: Song Encoder on $STDOUT
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 28, 2023 • 1h 34min
From Docker to Dagger
This week we’re joined by Solomon Hykes, the creator of Docker. Now he’s back with his next big thing called Dagger — CI/CD as code that runs anywhere. We’re users of Dagger so check out our codebase if you want to see how it works. On today’s show Solomon takes us back to the days of Docker, what it was like on that 10 year journey, his transition from Docker to Dagger, Dagger’s community-led growth model, their focus on open source and community, how it works, and even a cameo from Kelsey Hightower to explain how Dagger works.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 4 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at developer.squareup.com to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Passbolt – It’s time for a new password manager. Read why
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Solomon Hykes – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
dagger.io
docs.dagger.io
Changelog & Friends #6: Even the best rides come to an end
Ship It! #48: Launching Dagger
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 20, 2023 • 1h 43min
Storytime with Steve Yegge
This week it’s storytime with Steve Yegge! Steve came out of retirement to join Sourcegraph as Head of Engineering. Their next frontier is Cody, their AI coding assistant that answers code questions and writes code for you by reading your entire codebase and the code graph. But, we really spent a lot of time talking with Steve about his time at Amazon, Google, and Grab. Ok, it’s storytime!
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 9 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Code-level APM built for developers! Stay ahead of latency issues and trace every slow transaction to a poor-performing API call or database query. Sentry is the only developer-first application monitoring platform that shows you what’s slow, down to the line of code. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Steve Yegge – GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Steve Yegge’s Google Platforms Rant
steve-yegge-platform-rant-follow-up.md
Steve Yegge joins as Head of Engineering (or, “Why I left retirement to join Sourcegraph”)
All You Need Is Cody
Cody is Cheating
A good day with Jeff
Steve Yegge on Wikipedia
Why I left Google to join Grab
Cody AI
Yin and Yang on Wikipedia
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 13, 2023 • 1h 5min
Types will win in the end
This week we’re talking about type checking with Jake Zimmerman. Jake is one of the leads at Stripe working on Sorbet — an open source project that does Type checking in Ruby and runs over Stripe’s entire Ruby codebase. As of May of 2022 Stripe’s codebase was over 15 million lines of code spread across 150,000 files. If you think you have a bigger Ruby codebase, Jake is down to go byte-for-byte to see who wins. Jake shares tons of wisdom and more importantly he shares why he thinks types will win in the end.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 4 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Code-level APM built for developers! Stay ahead of latency issues and trace every slow transaction to a poor-performing API call or database query. Sentry is the only developer-first application monitoring platform that shows you what’s slow, down to the line of code. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Typesense – Lightning fast, globally distributed Search-as-a-Service that runs in memory. You literally can’t get any faster!
Featuring:Jake Zimmerman – Website, GitHub, Mastodon, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
sorbet.org
Getting started with Sorbet
Sorbet: Stripe’s type checker for Ruby
Justin Searls
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 6, 2023 • 1h 23min
Efficient Linux at the CLI
Daniel J. Barrett, a Linux expert with over 30 years of experience and author of 'Efficient Linux at the Command Line', shares his insights on maximizing productivity with Linux. He discusses the power of command combination and re-running commands for efficiency. Barrett also explains advanced navigation techniques with the $CDPATH variable and the importance of mastering essential commands. Additionally, he explores the integration of AI tools like ChatGPT for learning Linux while stressing the need for a solid understanding of the system.

Jun 28, 2023 • 1h 7min
Don't make things worse!
Taylor Troesh joins Jerod to discuss a bevy of software development topics: yak shaves, dependency selection, -10x engineers, IKEA-oriented development, his new content-addressable programming language & much more along the way.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 4 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:DevCycle – Build better software with DevCycle. Feature flags, without the tech debt. DevCycle is a Feature Flag Management platform designed to help you build maintainable code at scale.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Featuring:Taylor Troesh – Website, GitHub, LinkedInJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Taylor Town
IKEA-Oriented Development
11 Ways to Shave a Yak
How to be a -10x Engineer
The Lindy Effect
Crafting Interpreters
The Unison language
Scrapscript
The Mother of All Demos - Wikipedia
Opening Keynote: Greg Young - Stop Over-Engenering - YouTube
The art of destroying software (Greg Young) - YouTube
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jun 22, 2023 • 1h 28min
Rebuilding DevOps from the ground up
This week we’re joined by Adam Jacob and we’re talking about his mission at System Initiative to rebuild DevOps. They are out of stealth mode and ready to show off their transformative new power tool that reimagines what’s possible from DevOps. It’s an intelligent automation platform that allows DevOps teams to build detailed interactive simulations of their infrastructure and use them to rapidly update their production environments.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 6 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:DevCycle – Build better software with DevCycle. Feature flags, without the tech debt. DevCycle is a Feature Flag Management platform designed to help you build maintainable code at scale.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Adam Jacob – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
System Initiative
System Initiative launch demo
What if Infrastructure as Code never existed, by Adam Jacob
10+ deploys per day at Flickr
Changelog Interviews #353: The war for the soul of open source
Changelog Interviews #460: The business model of open source
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!


