
Changelog Interviews
Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source & leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms & communities are welcome.
Latest episodes

Mar 9, 2023 • 55min
Chasing the 9s
This week Adam talks with Marcin Kurc about chasing the 9s. Marcin is the Co-founder and CEO of Nobl9 where they build tools for managing service level objectives, aka SLOs. We also talk about service level agreements (SLAs), service level indicators (SLIs), error budgets, and monitoring, and how it all comes together to help teams align on goals, improve customer satisfaction, manage risks, increase transparency, and of course, a favorite around here…continuous improvement. Kaizen! This is an awesome deep dive into the world of chasing those 9s, and how teams are levering SLOs to earn the trust of their customers as well showcase transparency.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 1 minute on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at changelog.com/square to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Marcin Kurc – Website, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
New to SLOs?
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Mar 1, 2023 • 1h 10min
You’re just a devcontainer.json away
This week we’re joined by Brigit Murtaugh, Product Manager on the Visual Studio Code team at Microsoft, and we’re talking about Development Containers and the Dev Container spec. Ever since we talked with Cory Wilkerson about Coding in the cloud with Codespaces we’ve wanted to get the Changelog.com codebase setup with a dev environment in the cloud to more easily support contributions. After getting a drive-by contribution from Chris Eggert to add a Dev Container spec to our codebase, we got curious and reached out to Brigit and asked her to come on the show to give us all the details.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 9 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Postman – Build APIs together — More than 20 million developers use Postman for building and using APIs. Postman simplifies each step of the API lifecycle and streamlines collaboration so you can create better APIs—faster.
Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at changelog.com/square to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Brigit Murtaugh – GitHub, LinkedInAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
containers.dev
Dev containers templates and on GitHub
Dev containers CLI
PR #437 (from Chris Eggert): Add GitHub Codespaces support - https://containers.dev 👀
Beginner’s Series to: Dev Containers
The Changelog #459: Coding in the cloud with Codespaces with Cory Wilkerson
The Changelog #277: The Story of Visual Studio Code
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Feb 24, 2023 • 1h 18min
Into the Fediverse
This week Evan Prodromou is back to take us deeper into the Fediverse. As many of us reconsider our relationship with Twitter, Mastodon has been by-and-large the target of migration. They helped to popularize the idea of a federated universe of community-owned, decentralized, social networks. And, at the heart of it all is ActivityPub. ActivityPub is a decentralized social networking protocol published by the W3C. It is co-authored by Evan as well as; Christine Lemmer-Webber, Jessica Tallon, Erin Shepherd, and Amy Guy. Today, Evan shares the details behind this protocol and where the Fediverse might be heading.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 2 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Postman – Build APIs together — More than 20 million developers use Postman for building and using APIs. Postman simplifies each step of the API lifecycle and streamlines collaboration so you can create better APIs—faster.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Evan Prodromou – Website, GitHub, Mastodon, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
ActivityPub - W3C Recommendation (23 January 2018)
PeerTube
Twitter says it’s intentionally blocking apps like Tweetbot
Changelog.social
Mastodon Roadmap
The Changelog #257 with Evan Prodromou
Medium embraces Mastodon
Cosocial
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Feb 17, 2023 • 1h 27min
What it takes to scale engineering
This week we’re talking to Rachel Potvin, former VP of Engineering at GitHub about what it takes to scale engineering. Rachel says it’s a game-changer when engineering scales beyond 100 people. So we asked to her to share everything she has learned in her career of leading and scaling engineering.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 7 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Session Replay! Rewind and replay every step of the user’s journey before and after they encountered an issue. Eliminate the guesswork and get to the root cause of an issue, faster. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Rachel Potvin – GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Rachel adores EngFlow (investor and advisor)
Rachel’s 2016 paper on Google’s developer infrastructure
Harvard Business Review on Psychological Safety
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Feb 10, 2023 • 1h 41min
Git with your friends
This week we invited our friend Mat Ryer to join us for some good conversation about some Git tooling that’s been on our radar. You may know Mat from Go Time and also Grafana’s Big Tent, which we help to produce. We speculate, we discuss, we laugh, and Mat even breaks into song a few times. It’s good fun.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 4 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Postman – Build APIs together — More than 20 million developers use Postman for building and using APIs. Postman simplifies each step of the API lifecycle and streamlines collaboration so you can create better APIs—faster.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Mat Ryer – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Git Heat Map
Git Sim
git-bug
GitUI
Git Branchless
Jerod’s pick - GitX
Mat’s pick - ReviewPad
How did Git get its name?
MacStadium
Beyond Code Season 1: Keep Ruby Weird 2014
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jan 27, 2023 • 1h 5min
Mainframes are still a big thing
This week we’re talking about mainframes with Cameron Seay, Adjunct Professor at East Carolina University and a member of the Governing Board of the Open Mainframe Project. If you’ve been curious about mainframes, this show will be a great guide.
Cameron explains exactly what a mainframe is and how it’s different from the cloud. We talk COBOL and the state of education and opportunities around that language. We cover the state-of-the-art in mainframe land, System Z, Linux on mainframes, and more.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 2 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Working code means happy customers. That’s exactly why teams choose Sentry. From error tracking to performance monitoring, Sentry helps teams see what actually matters, resolve problems quicker, and learn continuously about their applications - from the frontend to the backend. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Postman – Build APIs together — More than 20 million developers use Postman for building and using APIs. Postman simplifies each step of the API lifecycle and streamlines collaboration so you can create better APIs—faster.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Cameron Seay – LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Open Mainframe Project
IBM zSystems
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jan 20, 2023 • 1h 12min
Just Postgres
This week we’re talking about by Postgres with Craig Kerstiens, Chief Product Officer at Crunchy Data, and a well known ambassador for Postgres. Just Postgres. That’s what this week’s show is about.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 2 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Working code means happy customers. That’s exactly why teams choose Sentry. From error tracking to performance monitoring, Sentry helps teams see what actually matters, resolve problems quicker, and learn continuously about their applications - from the frontend to the backend. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Postman – Build APIs together — More than 20 million developers use Postman for building and using APIs. Postman simplifies each step of the API lifecycle and streamlines collaboration so you can create better APIs—faster.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Craig Kerstiens – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
webstack
The Art of PostgreSQL
Crunchy Data
Postgres Playground
The Changelog #510: Taking Postgres serverless with Nikita Shamgunov from Neon
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jan 14, 2023 • 57min
The principles of data-oriented programming
Jerod is joined by Yehonathan Sharvit, author of Data-Oriented Programming, to discuss the virtues of treating data as a first-class citizen in our applications and the four principles that make it possible.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 2 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at changelog.com/square to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Sentry – Working code means happy customers. That’s exactly why teams choose Sentry. From error tracking to performance monitoring, Sentry helps teams see what actually matters, resolve problems quicker, and learn continuously about their applications - from the frontend to the backend. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Yehonathan Sharvit – Website, GitHub, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
📘 Data-Oriented Programming
Principles of Data-Oriented Programming
The history of DOP
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jan 6, 2023 • 1h 22min
Don't sleep on Ruby & Rails
Welcome to 2023 — we’re kicking off the year talking to Justin Searls about the state of web development and why he just might write a “You Might Not Need React” post. He’s been so productive using Turbo and Stimulus (and tailwind) in Rails 7 that we had to talk about the state of Rails development today and a bunch of other fun topics around building for the web in 2023.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 16 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Working code means happy customers. That’s exactly why teams choose Sentry. From error tracking to performance monitoring, Sentry helps teams see what actually matters, resolve problems quicker, and learn continuously about their applications - from the frontend to the backend. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at changelog.com/square to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Featuring:Justin Searls – Website, GitHub, Mastodon, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
SO PRODUCTIVE in Rails 7
Shaking my head big time at The Changelog #509
What excites you about Ruby on Rails in 2022?
The Changelog #509
Ship It #44
Debugging Ruby with VS Code
Searls says:
For liner notes purposes, @hsbt and @ko1 have indeed both contributed to ruby.debug but it was clearly Koichi’s baby.
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Dec 23, 2022 • 1h 29min
State of the "log" 2022
Our 5th annual year-end wrap-up episode! Sit back, relax, pour a glass of your favorite beverage and join us for listener voice mails, our favorite episodes, some must-listens, and of course the top 5 most listened to episodes of the year. Thanks for listening! 💚
Join the discussionChangelog++ members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today!Featuring:Adam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Listener favs:
Go Time #250: Mat’s GopherCon EU diary
Ship It! #44: Fundamentals with Kelsey Hightower
The Changelog #454: The return of Richard Hipp
Backstage #18: Tenet with heavy spoilers
Backstage #23: The Oban Pro with Parker Selbert
The Changelog #464: This insane tech hiring market with Gergely Orosz
The Changelog #516: This !insane tech hiring market with Gergely Orosz
The Changelog #480: Git your reset on with Annie Sexton
The Changelog #494: Lessons from 5 years of startup code audits with Ken Kantzer
Jerod’s favs:
The Changelog #474: Complex systems & second-order effects with Paul Orlando
The Changelog #477: Song Encoder: Forrest Brazeal
The Changelog #506: Stable Diffusion breaks the internet with Simon Willison
Adam’s favs:
The Changelog #486: Practical ways to solve hard problems with Frank Krueger
The Changelog #502: Fireside chat with Jack Dorsey from the main stage at Square Unboxed 2022
Both our favs:
The Changelog #513: The story of Heroku with Adam Wiggins
The Changelog #484: Wisdom from 50+ years in software with Brian Kernighan
Adam’s must-listens:
The Changelog #515: Advocating for and supporting open source at ATO ’22
The Changelog #508: A guided tour through ID3 esoterica with Lars Wikman
The Changelog #500: The legacy of CSS-Tricks with Chris Coyier
Jerod’s must-listens:
Ship It! #62: Operational simplicity is a gift to you with Gary Bernhardt
JS Party #244: The spicy React debate show 🌶️
Go Time #256: gRPC & protocol buffers with Akshay Shah
Most popular episodes of 2022:
ONE MORE thing every dev should know with Jessica Kerr
Wisdom from 50+ years in software with Brian Kernighan
Securing the open source supply chain with Feross from Socket
Principles for hiring engineers with Jacob Kaplan-Moss
Making the command line glamorous with Toby Padilla from Charm
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
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