In his August cover story for Harper’s Magazine, Jason Blakely argues that an overreliance on scientific authority, or “scientism,” only furthered the divide between those who adhered to and those who disobeyed public health guidelines during the COVID-19 pandemic. Instead of engendering legitimacy through dialogue, Blakely says, policymakers passed down “neutral” doctrines in the name of science and often at the expense of other social values. Blakely sat down with Harper’s deputy editor Jon Baskin to discuss his piece and its implications as we’ve gained hindsight on the pandemic. * Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97: harpers.org/save* Read “Doctor’s Orders,” Jason Blakely’s piece in the August edition of Harper’s* Jason Blakely’s book We Built Reality* The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, by Max Weber* Giorgio Agamben’s Homo Sacer* 4:32: How could these two opposite positions “shed light on our situation”* 8:12: “Some very extreme human experiences happened at that time”* 15:11: It’s the economy, stupid!* 17:02: “Humans are a weird animal; we can become like the things that describe us”* 23:20: “People have to be listened to in order to understand what’s guiding their life”* 27:26: RFK Jr., and the blurred lines between anti-scientism and anti-science* 37:09: “As daunting as it is to say politics must start from the bottom up, there’s no other way” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

An estimated one out of every four Nigerians is a silent carrier of sickle cell disease, a hemoglobin disorder that can cause serious health problems and even death. With recent advancements in genetic testing, many Nigerians won’t take the risk of reproducing with other silent carriers or people with the disease. But, as Krithika Varagur reports, love doesn’t always accord with the Punnett square. Providing a snapshot of what our “genetic responsibility” could be as prenatal tests proliferate, Varagur sat down with Harper’s Magazine senior editor Elena Saavedra Buckley to discuss one couple’s story of public health, family, and most of all love in Lagos.* Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97: harpers.org/save* “Love in the Time of Sickle Cell Disease,” Krithika Varagur’s story in the August edition of Harper’s * Krithika Varagur’s book, “The Call: Inside the Global Saudi Religious Project”* Larissa MacFarquhar on the family court system* Katherine Boo’s piece, “After Welfare”* Aristotle’s Poetics* 3:35: The story started as “an aside my friend in Nigeria made”* 8:10: “I am a romantic, and I don’t think I would write this story about people who don’t choose love”* 13:25: “In a lot of traditions, unlimited choice is not the one way route to a good life”* 14:52: There’s been a “revolution” in sickle cell treatment over a single generation* 17:35: “Sickle cell is no longer a death sentence,” which complicates responsibility* 22:30: A range of possibilities is “closer to our reality with genetic testing” than a yes/no* 26:00: “Genetic responsibility shouldn’t turn into a genetic blame game”* 34:25: The best story is one that would be powerful at the dinner table* 37:55: To quote Carl Sagan, “If you want to invent an apple pie from scratch, you have to create the universe” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

Christopher Carroll, the reviews editor at Harper’s, sits down with the former New Books columnist, Claire Messud, and her successor, Dan Piepenbring, to discuss the history, challenges, and pleasures of the storied column. The three critics go over their influences, the changes in publishing today, and, above all else, the great opportunity the column has given each writer to “go on a walk through your own mind.”* Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97: harpers.org/save* Claire Messud’s “New Books” columns * Claire Messud’s “New Books” column on Kurt Wolff, Phillipe Sands, and Tom Stoppard* Chris Carroll’s “New Books” column for July* Dan Piepenbring’s premier “New Books” column for August* Elizabeth Hardwick’s 1959 “The Decline of Book Reviewing” essay in Harper’s* Claire Messud’s novel, The Emperor’s Children* Dan Piepenbring’s book CHAOS* “New Books” columns, including Zadie Smith, Joshua Cohen, and John Leonard* Jonathan Franzen’s essay “Perchance to Dream” from April, 1996* 0:49: History of “New Books” coverage* 3:38: What goes into choosing a book* 7:36: Writing fiction as a critic* 9:10: Changes in publishing today, “gone are those days”* 13:59: “Centripetal vs. centrifugal forces” in book criticism* 15:45: “If you care enough about what happens, then the book has already won you over.”* 17:16: The critical pan, and why they’re less necessary now* 29:10: The pleasure of connecting different titles, “serendipitously” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

Braucherei, a form of healing used in Amish and Mennonite communities, might seem like an appropriately antiquated practice for a traditional culture. But the writer Rachel Yoder returned to her Mennonite roots to investigate the practice’s modern uses. Embodying all the contradictions and complexities of the much-discussed Amish community overall, Braucherei might be most significant because of its commitment to an ancient practice: someone honoring your pain. “What could be more valuable?”* Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97: harpers.org/save* “In the Glimmer,” Rachel Yoder’s essay in the July issue of Harper’s* The Long Lost Friend: A Collection of Mysterious and Invaluable Arts and Remedies* 1:36: The origins of Braucherei* 4:25: The “flattening” of Amish and Mennonite communities in media* 14:20: An alternative solution to chronic pain: “pain itself can be so mysterious to modern medicine”* 19:33: The power of it: “Being two bodies together in a place and caring for each other.”* 26:59: The “evolution” of these communities* 33:40: Being interested in “the mysterious” as a direct link to being a writer* 35:52: Writers as a “secular clergy”* 37:17: Goop-mystics on the Upper West Side and the Amish healer* 43:04: Returning home This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists’ Doomsday Clock has never been closer to midnight, yet the nuclear panic of the 1960s feels like history. Jackson Lears, who served as a naval officer on a nuclear-armed ship during the Cold War, discusses how we have embraced the myth of technological prowess to detach ourselves from the horrors of war. “War is the most unpredictable, least controllable enterprise that human beings are capable of, and yet it’s the one to which we pay the most technological homage,” he writes. * Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97: harpers.org/save* “Behind the Veil of Indifference,” Jackson Lears’s story in the July issue of Harper’s * The Doomsday Machine by Daniel Ellsberg* Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt* Catch-22 by Joseph Heller* The Naked and the Dead by Norman Mailer* 2:35: 9/11 security state and its doomsday undertones* 6:40: The government has “given up on diplomacy”* 10:25: Stalin was less demonized than Putin today* 13:45: “The media is more like a stenographer for the security state now”* 16:45: “There was genuinely more interest in, curiosity about, and public awareness of the danger of nuclear war in the 1960s.”* 21:03: Faith in technology allows for a distance between the soldier and the target* 29:05: “Algorithmic rationality” protects the soldier from the “dreaded human error”* 37:38: The religiosity of the American military* 46:15: Assange, Ellsberg, any hope for whistleblowers? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

After the Titan submersible imploded last week, Matthew Gavin Frank’s journey to the depths with Karl Stanley, a friend of Stockton Rush’s, took on a new meaning. (Frank rode in Stanley’s sub in February of this year; his essay, in which Frank meditates on the eternal dangers and allure of deep-sea exploration, went online the day after the OceanGate sub went missing.) He discusses Stanley’s warnings to Rush, mass fear, and whether he regrets his experience.* Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97: harpers.org/save* “Submersion Journalism,” Matthew Gavin Frank’s essay in the July issue of Harper’s* The New York Times piece which mentions Stanley’s objections to the Titan* [8:46] Submersible enthusiasts ignore the all-encompassing danger of the sea* [13:57] The psyche of a submersible enthusiast vs. the psyches of the rest of us* [16:13] “There is a malign quality to this certain and particular breed of wonder.”* [19:32] The Titan tapped into “a fuse of our greatest, fearful hits.”* [20:31] How the countdown aspect made us “keenly aware of how much closer we are to our own deaths”* [22:38] Joking out of love, joking out of spite, and roasting someone after they’ve died* [25:53] The media’s endless quest for ratings* [32:15] “If there is such a thing as an expert in risk assessment in one-off, uncertifiable, deep-sea manned vehicles, my resume is hard to beat.”* [35:28] Going for a walk, as an antidote to submersible addiction This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

Exploring 2,000 feet below the sea’s surface is something only professionals—or billionaires—are able to do. However, the writer Matthew Gavin Frank found Karl Stanley, an eccentric submariner, to take him to the depths in a DIY sub off the coast of Honduras. Frank dived to the bottom of the sea against his own anxieties and explored not only bioluminescence and sharks, but also the sublimity of being “completely quieted” as a writer. * Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97* “Submersion Journalism,” Matthew Gavin Frank’s essay in the July issue of Harper’s* Alberto Río’s poem, “Some Extensions on the Sovereignty of Science”* Leslie Jamison’s Make It Scream, Make It Burn* [4:30] Karl being a renegade, likes the lack of regulations of a place like Honduras* [11:20] Despite its danger, it’s also the only way to reach the “unattainable”* [18:28] The “largeness and mystery” of writing can calm his anxieties* [23:50] “Art for me is the product of obsession, I don’t know how to do it without it.”* [25:06] “I felt if not invisible then just gone. Like completely quieted.”* [36:15] Despite almost “calling the whole thing off,” he went through with it* [40:10] On Aristotle, the first marine biologist* [41:55] The thin line between mythology and domination* [52:15] “I think about it every day, if not all the time” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

Only the good die young—no, really. The historian and Harper’s Magazine contributor Daniel Bessner joins Violet Lucca to discuss the series of love fests for Henry Kissinger, and Christopher Hitchens’s “The Case Against Henry Kissinger,” an iconic two-part takedown of the statesman published in early 2001. You can read this masterwork—and everything else Harper’s has published since 1850—for only $16.97 a year. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

It’s a familiar story, but one no less tragic because of its familiarity: a female author makes a huge splash with her debut novel, but despite her promise, the doors slam shut and she fades from view. Nancy Lemann, author of the cult novel Lives of the Saints (1985), discusses the experience of that career trajectory, as well as the recent, renewed enthusiasm for her writing in the pages of Harper’s, The Paris Review, and elsewhere. With candor and her distinctive sensibility, Lemann also lays out her myriad influences, from Walker Percy to Evelyn Waugh.* Subscribe to Harper’s for only $16.97* “Lions and Daughters,” Nancy Lemann’s essay in the June issue of Harper’s* “Diary of Remorse,” Lemann’s essay in the Fall 2022 issue of the Paris Review* “Musical Hallucinations,” Lemann’s post on The Daily* Lives of the Saints on Bookshop.org* Christopher Beha’s Substack* The Whole Five Feet on Bookshop.org This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com

On May 2, 2023, the Writers Guild of America called a strike. While this may seem far afield from an august magazine that specializes in literary nonfiction, the WGA’s demands are in-line with the mission of Harper’s: to uphold the rights and unique voices of writers. As the balance of power in Hollywood has shifted away from traditional studios and toward streaming companies like Netflix, Amazon, and Apple, their plan for “disrupting the industry” is almost identical to what tech companies did to journalism in the aughts. Tom Bissell, a member of the WGA and a contributor to Harper’s, discusses the finer points of the strike, the mood on the picket line, and the false menace of A.I. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit harpersmagazine.substack.com