The Curious Bartender Podcast

Today I am speaking with Serge Valentin. Serge is a whisky expert and the founder of a whiskyfun.com - which is widely regarded as the go-to review repository for whisky tasting notes and scores on the internet. Over the past 23 years Serge has tasted over 20,000 bottles ranging from entry level staples to some of the rarest in the world. His scoring system has become the de facto benchmark by which many measure the quality of a dram, and Serge has become a cult hero amongst the world’s whisky geeks.On the episode we discuss tasting whisky - personal preferences over objective goodness, the hubris of blind tasting, whether whisky is too serious, the role of independent bottlers, how whisky changes in the bottle, recent exceptional whiskies, weird whisky, the founding of whiskyfun.com, the importance of education, changing tastes, whisky myths, and much more.

In today’s episode, I’m joined by one of the true mavericks of American distilling — Lance Winters of St. George Spirits. This is a journey that begins in the orchard, with pears, quinces and raspberries destined for eau de vie, and stretches all the way to absinthe, American gin, rum and even highballs built on umeshu and Baller whisky.We trace the roots of St. George back to Jörg Rupf and the early days of California craft distilling in the 1980s, and follow Lance’s arrival and the evolution of a house defined not by category, but by philosophy. Along the way we dive into the uncompromising art of eau de vie — fruit selection, fermentation, and the stills that shape every spirit they make — and ask how that sensibility influences whisky, rum and beyond.From jalapeño vodka to acorn spirits, from dill lactones in oak to the question of consistency versus expression, this conversation is about more than products. It’s about place, curiosity, and a willingness to let flavour lead. We explore American gin through Californian botanicals, the rebirth of absinthe, the origins of Baller, the future of eau de vie, and where all this innovation leaves the legacy of St. George.This is not a tour through a portfolio — it’s a look inside a creative engine. To support the show please rate, subscribe and share - thanks!

Charles Denby is the co-founder and CEO of Berkeley Yeast, a company that’s reimagining fermentation through genetics. With a PhD in molecular and cell biology from UC Berkeley, Charles and his team are using genetic science not to replace brewing tradition, but to enhance it — designing new yeast strains that can transform how beer, wine, and even spirits are made.In this conversation, we dive deep into the biology that underpins flavour. We unpack what yeast actually is, why it produces alcohol, and how its metabolism creates the esters and aromatics we love in drinks. Charles explains how fermentation conditions shape flavour, how lager and ale yeasts differ, and what really happens inside the tank at every stage of fermentation.From there, we go microscopic — exploring yeast genetics, DNA modification, and the molecular tools that make it all possible. Charles shares how Berkeley Yeast engineers strains to enhance tropical aromas in hazy IPAs, introduce new layers of bitterness, or even make brewing non-alcoholic and healthier beers more efficient.We also discuss the broader implications of this technology — from applications in wine and spirits to the stigma surrounding GMOs and what “responsible innovation” really means in the drinks world.This is a fascinating deep dive into the invisible world that drives fermentation — and how science is quietly shaping the future of flavour.If you like this content please consider subscribing.00:00 Introduction02:34 Charles’ Background in Science & Origins of Berkeley Yeast10:29 What is Yeast? Why Does it Produce Alcohol? Yeast Metabolism16:49 Fermentation Conditions, Ester Metabolism22:04 Yeast Species: Lager & Ale Yeasts24:24 Stages of Fermentation28:34 Nutrients for Fermentation, Amino Acid Synthesis, Diacetyl Production36:34 Why Is Beer Fizzy? Production of CO2 During Fermentation37:34 Yeast Genetics, Cell Biology, Evolutionary Biology42:29 Modifying Yeast DNA, Molecular Scissors, Polymerase Chain Reaction55:54 The Complex Web of Genetic Modification1:01:14 Testing Yeast in Berkeley Yeast’s Microbrewery1:04:04 Comparing Hazy IPA Yeasts, Creating Tropical Aromas1:09:19 Engineering Yeast for Bitterness1:12:04 Brewing Non-Alcohol Beer, Vacuum Distillation: Method, Downsides1:16:54 Brewing Beer for Health1:22:17 Applications in Wine: Flavour, Low-Alcohol, Cultural Knock on Effect1:26:14 Residual Sugar in No/Low Alcohol Ferments1:27:59 Applications in Spirits: Flavour & Efficiency1:30:49 The Berkeley Yeast Business Model, Lifespan of Yeast Cultures, Competition1:35:44 Overcoming the Stigma of GMO, Responsible Technology, Defining GMO in Beer

Megs Miller is a bartender, educator, and all-round agave obsessive — whose journey has taken her across multiple continents but most recently to Mexico City, where she runs Salón de Agave, a tasting room dedicated to exploring the depth and diversity of Mexico’s native spirits.In this episode, you can expect to learn about agave species and taxonomy, how different agave species affect the mind and body — Megs and her co-worker Sophie have been conducting a two-year experiment on this — insights into retailing agave spirits in Mexico, the nuances of terroir and regional flavour mapping, and the joy of glass-matured mezcal.We also dive into sotol, pulque, and the evolving conversation around responsibility, sourcing, and politics in agave spirits. From the cheesiness of Inaequidens to the pine forests of Chihuahua, and from women’s progress in the industry to the cultural storytelling behind each bottle — this is a deep and generous look at the Mexican spirit.Megs was so generous, in fact, that we tasted around 25 different distillates — and as someone who’s tasted quite a few in my time, I wasn’t surprised to find that there were many amazing surprises. I wasn’t able to write down or document them all, but if you’re interested in anything in particular, I suggest giving Salón de Agave a follow on Instagram or booking a session with them next time you’re in Mexico City. It’s awesome.https://salondeagave.com/00:00 Intro02:25 Meg’s Trip to Durango06:25 Agave Species and Taxonomy, Tequila11:25 How Different Agaves Affect Your Body, Agave Spirits Distillation15:35 Retail of Agave Spirits in Mexico16:35 Terpenes in Agave Spirits, Health18:55 Moving to Mexico – Opening Salón de Agave26:25 Glass-Matured Mezcal, Pechuga, Salt & Lime37:25 Agave Education, Price & Value45:05 Mapping Flavour Around Mexico, Terroir49:55 Tasting Maguey Inaequidens Agave, Cheesiness, Narcos56:45 Back to Durango, Maguey Lampranillo, Label Design1:00:35 Tasting Vino del Norte from Pechotierra, Pulque Production, Appreciating Pulque1:06:40 The Evolving Flavour of Agave Spirits, Appreciating Agave Spirits, Glassware1:08:15 Sotol, Dasylirion1:10:32 Texture and Mouthfeel in Agave Spirits, Tuning Your Flavour Perception, Context in Tasting1:19:25 Mezcal Labelling, DO, Rebellion, World Agave Spirits, Mezcal Politics, Responsible Sourcing1:28:25 Chihuahua Sotol, Pine Forests, Cultural Terroir1:31:42 Women in Agave Spirits: Challenges, Progress1:40:25 Guerrero Cupreata, Inconsistency, Scarcity, Bottle Killing1:45:15 Distilado de Pulque from Salmiana, Mango Distillate1:48:45 Identifying Agave by Smell: Inaequidens & Salmiana, San Luis Potosí Agave Cooking1:51:45 Challenging Preconceptions in Agave Spirits, Smokiness1:54:25 Oaxaca, Small-Batch Cupreata, Cowhide Fermentation1:56:35 Tasting Notes, Describing Flavour, Context

Richard Hart is one of the world’s most respected bakers and a celebrated author. He first rose to prominence in the early 2000s while working at the legendary Tartine Bakery, San Francisco. From there, he co-founded Hart Bageri with René Redzepi in Copenhagen, before relocating to Mexico City, where he recently opened his latest venture, Green Rhino. Richard is also the author of the James Beard Award–winning book Richard Hart Bread, and is widely regarded as one of the greatest exponents of sourdough bread on the planet.In this episode, we dive deep into the craft and science of sourdough: how Richard’s methods and protocols have evolved over the years, the role of different cereals and milling techniques, the importance of water in bread, yeast management, ovens and baking temperatures, and practical tips for baking at home. We also explore bread culture and chew over some wonderfully contentious questions — from whether a pizza qualifies as a sandwich to the eternal mystery of the Jaffa Cake.Although this is primarily a podcast about spirits, cocktails, and bars, The Curious Bartender is ultimately about curiosity. Bread has always fascinated me, and sitting down with one of the key figures who helped popularise sourdough worldwide was an opportunity I simply couldn’t turn down. It didn’t disappoint.00:00 Introduction01:44 Drinks Preferences 02:44 Balancing Eating & Exercise as a Chef & Baker, Working Hours 06:14 Baking Schedule & Flavour Considerations 08:44 Baking at Tartine in San Francisco, Instagram & Fame 12:29 Working with Rene Redzepi, Copenhagen, Hart Bageri, Danish Bread Culture, Family 19:29 Moving to Mexico City, City Life, Gentrification 23:14 Opening Green Rhino, Baking for Life, Incorporating Mexican Food, Chocolate, Corn, R&D, Fucking People Up 30:54 Flour, Milling, Selecting Wheat, Sourdough Process: Temperature & Time, Gluten 39:04 Water for Baking 40:59 Sourdough Starters: Superstition, Protocols, Effects of Altitude in Mexico City 48:29 Pursuing the Perfect Loaf, Defining a Perfect Loaf, Tweaking Parameters, Comparison to Cooking and Cocktails 54:04 Working with Rye, Danish Bread Culture 57:34 Other Grains: Oats, Spelt, Durum, Einkorn 1:00:44 Water Substitutes: Beer, Tea 1:03:04 Making Brioche, Burger Buns 1:05:44 Stoneground flour, Wood fired ovens, Thermo-oil vs Electric Ovens, Oven Dynamics 1:08:58 Baking Bread at Home - Techniques and Tips, Temperature & Steam 1:12:01 Is Bread The Best it’s Ever Been? Fixing Supermarket Bread 1:15:11 Bread Guilty Pleasures 1:15:53 Is a Pizza a Sandwich? 1:18:58 Burger Flipping Masochism 1:20:50 Is a Jaffa Cake a Cake or a Biscuit? 1:21:14 Sandwich Filling & Bread Pairing

Dave Broom is one of the most prominent and influential voices in the world of whisky and over the course of his career he has written some of the most important books on whisky and spirits including The World Atlas of Whisky, Whisky: The Manual, A Sense of Place, and The Way of Whisky — works that have shaped the way both enthusiasts and professionals understand flavour, culture, and the people behind the glass.On the episode we delve into the all important sense of place — from the cultural terroir of Scotland to the artistry and craft of distilling, and how flavour finds its way into the glass. Dave takes us from Japan to New Zealand, from English farms to French stills, as we explore the global spread of malt whisky and why everyone seems to be making it.We also get into his writing: the discipline, the methodology, the architecture of narrative non-fiction, and the influence of mentors like Michael Jackson. Along the way, we talk music, art, storytelling, and the state of drinks journalism today.And we taste some stuff too — French sorghum whisky, Breton malts, German rye, and the genius of Chichibu, and a sneak preview of the whisky from my new project at Rosemaund Farm — each dram opening the door to wider conversations about style, strength, regionality and the shape of whisky itself.And we close with the big themes: whisky’s current bubble, the secondary market, daily drams, and favourite distilleries.02:37 A Sense of Place - Terroir in Spirits, Scotch Whisky Cultural Terroir10:02 Artistry & Craft in Whisky Making - Learning from Masters, Adapting Tradition, Economics and Law15:07 How Do Flavours Find Their Way Into Whisky? The Way of Whisky and Japan19:42 Whisky In New Zealand - Codrona, Burning Manuka Wood, Waiheke Distillery22:17 Why is Everyone Making Malt Whisky?23:59 Writing - Latest Project, Mixing American Whiskey, Untold American Whiskey History, Researching History34:27 Dave’s Writing Process - Research, Poetry, Methodology - The World Atlas of Whisky: Influence, Practicality39:48 Writing Narrative non-fiction - Road Trip Books, Telling Stories, Narrative Architecture, The State of Drinks Journalism, Content and distraction, Photography52:17 The Arts & Spirits - Music, Art, Culture56:47 Tasting Bows French Sorghum Whisky - The French Whisky Category, Regionality, Eau de Vie1:02:07 *Dave’s Methodology for Assessing Whisky - Writing Tasting Notes, The Shape of Whisky1:07:37 The Macbeth Whisky Series - Making Whisky Fun through Communication of Flavour1:11:07 Tasting Rosemaund Farm 10 Year Old English Whisky1:17:30 Whisky Bottling Strength - The English Whisky Category1:20:42 Dave’s Early Career - Writing, Oddbins, Pubs, Becoming a Spirits Writer1:25:37 The Influence of Michael Jackson - Writing Style, Beer, Writing for Consumers1:28:57 Dave’s Writing Style - Poetry, Discipline, Trade Knowledge1:32:42 Tone of Voice in Writing1:34:07 Tasting Breton Whisky from Distillerie La Mine D'or ‘Galad’, Armorik Distillery, Development of French Whisky Market1:37:12 *The Bursting of the Whisky Bubble - Overproduction, Lessons from the Past, Pricing, Perception of Whisky1:48:47 Secondary Whisky Market - Auction House Bubble, Karuizawa, American Whiskey1:51:42 Opening Rare Bottles, Buying Whisky, Daily Drams, Changing Preferences for Taste1:57:27 Tasting Hardenberg German Straight Whisky - Leopold Bros.2:00:09 Chichibu Tasting - The Genius of Ichiro Akuto, Malting, Barley, Mizunara2:03:56 Quickfire QuestionsDave's site - https://thewhiskymanual.ukDave on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davewasabi/Liquid Antiquarian YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheLiquidAntiquarianRosemaund Farm Distillery - http://www.rosemaund.com📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/

In this installment, Nick Strangeway, a veteran British bartender with nearly 40 years in the game, shares captivating stories from London’s iconic bars like Fred’s Club and Hawksmoor. He reflects on the influence of the legendary Dick Bradsell and the vibrant Soho scene of the '80s and '90s. Discussions include the art of the martini, the revival of punch, and the creativity behind batching cocktails. Nick also introduces his latest venture, No Regrets, a unique basement bar offering curated martinis with an intimate vibe.

Henrietta Lovell is the founder and CEO of The Rare Tea company, a tea educator and author of the book Infused: Adventures in Tea. Over a career of more than 20 years Henrietta has travelled around the foothills of the Himalayas, across China, Japan, India, and Malawi, sourcing some of the best teas in the world and learning from the communities that grow them. She has worked with world class chefs and bartenders, including supplying tea at some of the bars I have owned over the years. In fact we first met around 15 years ago when I opened the Worship Street Whistling Shop in London.This episode is a tea masterclass that covers the basics of growing, processing, brewing and tasting tea, but also explores, history, economics, sustainability, agricuture, health, poverty, and some of the most expensive teas on the planet. Expect to learn where most of the world’s tea is grown - clue it isn’t china or India, why it is the Emperors Golden Eyebrows costs in excess of £250 for a 30g bag, why you shouldn’t ever brew good tea for three minutes, best practices for making tea infusions in spirits and for the bar, and much more.To support this podcast please like and subscribe.🙏 This episode is sponsored by Fever-Tree📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/00:00 Introduction 01:41 Cold Brewed Tea - Avoiding oxidation, Osmosis, Method06:21 The Remarkable way that high end Jasmine Tea is Made, tasting, uses of Jasmine tea Noma10:56 Tea as an Alternative to Wine - tasting Himalayan First Spring blended with Japanese Sencha13:24 Tea Varietals, Colonial History, Early Tea Drinks in India, Blending Tea & Comparisons to whisky19:11 Tea Types - White, Green, Oolong, Black, Pu’erh - Controlling Oxidation, Drying, Terroir and Agriculture, Fermentation25:24 Where Tea Grows - Environment26:41 East Africa, The Problem with Commodity Tea, Brokers, Responsible Tea Drinking, Direct Trade32:46 finding the Best Teas - Flavour, Independent, Organic Practices (vs. Organic Certification), Polyculture Framing, Impact of other Flora on Tea38:27 The Lifespan of a Tea Plant, Harvesting (Machine vs. Hand), Risk of Tech on Tea Communities45:51 Perception of Tea - Taste Testing, The Problem with Tea Bags, Practicality of Brewing Tea vs. Coffee54:16 Fruit Teas - Flavour Essences, Fruit Extracts01:00:46 Trading Up on Tea - What to Look For, Margins on Tea1:05:44 Tasting Coffee Leaf Tea1:08:31 Pu’erh Tea - Pairing for Food, Flavour, Ageing Tea, Tea Cakes, Tea Collectors, Tong Mu Village, Emperor’s Golden Eyebrow Tea1:17:21 Brewing Techniques - Equipment, Temperature, Brew Ratio, Time1:28:14 Carbonating Tea, Salting tea, Pairing with Cheese1:30:18 Matcha - Colour, Origins, Production (traditional vs modern), Commodity Matcha Syrups & Matcha Trend, Matcha and Coconut Water1:40:23 Caffeine in Tea - Inconsistency, vs. Coffee, Decaf Tea1:43:53 Alcohol based Tea Extractions - Protocols, Flavour, demo with Gin Infusion, Tea Cocktails1:52:11 Closing Words - Tea in the Present Day, Yerba Maté

Dale is a bartender, author, brand owner, and the co-founder of the Museum of the American cocktail. In the late 90’s working at NYC’s Rainbow Rooms Dale was probably the most famous bartender on the planet and has remained one of the best loved bartenders to this day. I sat down with Dale in Manhattan a few weeks ago, looking out over the Empire State Building as the sun went down. The interview was scheduled during a very tight window of opportunity between Dale arriving back from Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans and me catching a flight back to London. We had just 90 minutes, which wasn’t nearly enough time for a man with some many stories and such a sharp memory.In fact chronologically we barely got to 1990 before I had to turn off the microphones and hot foot it to catch my flight. For that reason, I am calling this interview Part one and hope to sit down with Dale to record the second part next year - and who knows, maybe we will need a third part.What you are about to hear is less a story of Dale’s career and more a tour of New York and Los Angeles hospitality from the late 1950’s through to the 80’s, exploring its jazz clubs, neighbourhood bars, and some of the greatest restaurants and hotels of the 20th century. Dale recounts the musicians that provided the soundtrack, the chefs that designed the cuisine, and the architects that imagined the buildings, all in vivid detail.Perhaps the most significant of these people to Dale, was Joe Baum - one of the United States most significant restauranteurs who introduced the concept of themed restaurant tot he world with no expense spared. Working with acclaimed chefs like Julia Child and James Beard, he opened hundreds of restaurants across America, most notably The Four Seasons Restaurant, Windows of the World at the top of the world trade centre, and the Rainbow Room at the Rockefeller Centre. You’ll hear about other venues during the course of our conversation too.We also discuss the founding and challenging upbringing of the Museum of the American Cocktail, the incredible aesthetic and culinary vision of Joe Baum, the establishment of modern American cuisine, what it was like working at the Bel Air Hotel in the 1980’s, the establishment of The Rainbow Room, and much much more.There are perhaps 100 different names and venues mentioned in this episode and it can get quite confusing. If you’re of the mind to do so I recommend watching the episode on YouTube when you get a chance, as I have provided archive images and captions to help paint the picture.Episode sponsored by Fever-Tree Mixershttps://degroffspirits.com00:00 Introduction03:11 Tales of the Cocktail06:41 Building the Museum of the American Cocktail - Jared Brown & The Rainbow Room, Ted Haigh, History of the Cocktail, Building the Collection, Locations20:09 Dale’s Early Life - Acting, Moving to Manhattan, Packing Bibles*, Restaurant Associates, Howard Johnson’s, Jazz Clubs*, McGlade’s Bar38:11 Working with Joe Baum, Restaurant Associates, Charlie O’s, Newarker, Four Seasons at the Seagrams Building, Modern American Cuisine, James Beard, La Fonda del Sol53:59 The Rainbow Room: Early History, Design55:11 Bel Air Hotel in Los Angeles - Cocktails, 7/11 Mix, Martini Rituals*1:06:32 Aurora Restaurant, Reviving Classic Cocktails, Fresh Juices, Jerry Thomas1:08:11 Building the Rainbow Room - Researching Classics, Recruiting Teams1:18:01 Becoming Famous, Impact on cocktail culture around NYC, Consulting with Keith McNally - Balthazar, Pravda, Lucky Strike

Today I am speaking with Alexandre Gabriel. Alexandre is the founder of Maison Ferrand, Citadelle Gin, and Plantation—now Planetary—Rum. Expect to learn how a Burgundian farm boy turned his hand to bartending in New York and then went on to innovate across the categories of cognac, gin and rum. We take a deep dive into the production of Cognac - terroir, grape varieties, distillation, maturation, and discuss the changing market of cognac in France and abroad.From there we turn to gin, covering the birth of Citadelle in 1996 and the challenges of establishing the world’s first modern craft gin distillery. The conversation then shifts to rum—Alexandre’s early encounters, the founding of Plantation, double maturation, Jamaican and Barbadian styles, muck, dunder, and the acquisition of West Indies Rum Distillery. We taste our way through the Rockley still, and high-ester ferments, and discuss geographical indications, tradition and community. We also discuss the decision to change the Plantation brand name to Planetary, and much more.00:00 Introduction & Clarification on Jamaican Rum GI05:16 Origin Stories - Childhood, Farming, Marc de Bourgogne, Growing What You Sell, Wine vs. Brandy, Bartending in NYC16:06 Cognac - Acquiring Ferrand, The Cognac Market18:16 The Cognac Regions, Cognac Houses, Geology & Flavour, Terroir, Yeast30:56 Grape Varietes in Cognac - Ugni Blanc & Colombard - Acidity, Stability, Producing Seasons33:36 Emphasis of Distillation over Fermentation37:18 Maturation in Cognac - Coopers, Elevage, Limousin Oak, Gastronomic Approach, Trancais, Fill Strength51:41 Tasting Ferrand 1840 - Finding old Cognac, Perception of Flavour based on Dilution, Historical Recipes, David Wondrich & Mint Juleps, Ancient Still Designs, The Evolution of Tradition1:04:09 Dosage in Cognac - Methods, Purpose, History - Physiology of sweetness and salt perception, sugar quality1:11:59 Changing Perceptions of Cognac - Cognac highballs, Misconceptions and Understanding1:17:52 Creating Citadelle Gin - Gin Market in 1996, First Craft Gin Distillery of Modern Era, Growing Juniper, Legislation, Plymouth Gin, Ferran Adrià1:32:24 Rum: Alexandre’s Early Experiences with Rum1:34:16 Thierry Gardère and Barbancourt, buying barrels, the origins of Plantation, Navy Rum & Mr Fogg1:42:56 Establishing the Plantation Brand - Nicolas Wine Shop Distribution, Naming the brand Plantation, First products, West Indies Rum Distillery team, Amaretto Cask Rum1:47:04 Double Maturation in Rum - Tropical and Continental - History, Benefits1:52:06 Jamaican Rum GI - Regulation Regarding Overseas Ageing, Myers, Captain Morgan - comparison to Single Malt Scotch2:00:18 Clarendon & Long Pond Distilleries - Southern vs. Northern Distilleries Styles in Jamaica - Historical reasons for styles, Esters, Export2:06:16 Muck, Dunder, Cane Vinegar & Bacteria in Rum Fermentation2:09:12 Acquisition of West Indies Rum Distillery (WIRD) in Barbados - George Stade (Founder), Origins of NRJ2:19:41 Stade’s Rum - Rockley Still: World’s Oldest Rum Still, Restoration, First Distillation2:26:22 What is Barbados Rum? Varieties of Stills, History, Using Seawater in Rum Production2:30:58 Tasting Hogo Monster - 2000ppm Esters2:36:05 Stiggin’s Pineapple Rum, Pushing the Limits2:38:16 Barbados Community, Growing Cane on Barbados, Curacao2:41:49 Next Steps: Cognac grapes, Renovating more stills, Navy Rum R&D, Paraguay2:46:41 Changing from Plantation to Planetary - Language, History, ConsultationEpisode Sponsored by Fever-Tree