The Michael Shermer Show

Daniel Lieberman, a Harvard evolutionary biology professor and author, delves into the paradox that humans did not evolve to exercise but rather for physical activities necessary for survival. He discusses how modern sedentary lifestyles contribute to health issues and why understanding our evolutionary past is crucial. Lieberman also challenges traditional views on sleep and exercise, suggesting optimal sleep is around six to seven hours and advocating for a balanced approach to physical activity. He critiques BMI as a health measure, emphasizing the importance of fat distribution and the need for preventative health through diet and exercise.

In this special episode of the Science Salon podcast, the last of 2020, Dr. Michael Shermer offers some reflections on 2020, starting with race and the Black Lives Movement, putting it into perspective from other books he read this year, along with podcast guests who appeared in 2020, such as Shelby Steele. Dr. Shermer recently read Isabel Wilkerson’s book Caste and Ibram X. Kendi’s book How to Be an Anti-Racist, and offers some thoughts on them, along with other issues competing for our attention of ills troubling society, including class conflicts, income inequality, lack of education, anti-Semitism, far-left illiberalism, and religious indoctrination. Everyone thinks that their particular focus is the only one that matters, but broad reading can put each into perspective. Dr. Shermer then reads his essay of the podcast title, originally published in The American Scholar and expanded on here and in an upcoming issue of Skeptic magazine.

In this special episode of the Science Salon podcast Dr. Michael Shermer reflects on the recent resurrection of Jordan Peterson, the resurgent criticism of him and why so many people attack him, why similar such unwarranted attacks have been made against public intellectuals like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris today, and of Stephen Jay Gould and Carl Sagan in the past. Dr. Shermer then reads his essay of this title that was originally published in Skepticmagazine 23.3 (2018), and on skeptic.com, and is reprinted in his essay collection Giving the Devil His Due.

In a conversation based on the book Threats: Intimidation and its Discontents, Shermer and Barash discuss: 2020 as the most momentous year of the past half century, judging historical figures based on modern morals (e.g., race and slavery), whether humans are naturally gullible or skeptical, the evolutionary logic of deterrence, how animals deal with threats, how humans deal with threats, game theory of deterring threats, nuclear deterrence (Mutual Assured Destruction) as a threat strategy, the motives behind nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the U.S. arms race against the U.S.S.R., the arms race within the U.S. between the Army, Navy, and Airforce, close calls with nuclear weapons and why this is not a sustainable strategy, how to deal with threats like Iran, China, Russia, and North Korea, Trump and what he did right with regard to North Korea. David P. Barash is an evolutionary biologist and Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Washington. He has written more than 280 peer-reviewed articles and 40 books. Barash has penned op-eds in the Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, and The Chicago Tribune, as well as numerous pieces in The Chronicle of Higher Education, Nautilus, and Skeptic.

Shermer and Prothero discuss: flat earth theories and how we know the earth is round, hollow earth theories and how we know it’s not hollow, the return of Ptolemy and an earth-centered solar system model (and how we know it’s wrong), how science deals with anomalies, fringe claims, and challenges to the orthodoxy, whether humans were in the San Diego area 130,000 years ago, how consensus is achieved in science (and the messy road to get there), from Newton to Einstein and what ultimately determines if a theory is true or not, flood myths and what causes such stories to arise in some cultures but not others, catastrophism vs. uniformitarianism in geology, the age of the earth and how geologists determined it, the myth of Atlantis and what Plato really intended with his account, biblical accounts of the world and how we should read the book as literature, not science, how science won the evolution-creation wars, science denial and how to deal with it, and the real-world consequences of denying science. Dr. Donald R. Prothero has taught geology for over 33 years as Professor of Geology at Occidental College in Los Angeles, and Lecturer in Geobiology at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, and currently at Pierce College in Woodland Hills, CA. He earned M.A., M.Phil., and Ph.D. degrees in geological sciences from Columbia University in 1982. He is currently the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of 33 books and over 250 scientific papers, including five leading geology textbooks and three trade books as well as edited symposium volumes and other technical works. He is on the editorial board of Skeptic magazine, and in the past has served as an associate or technical editor for Geology, Paleobiologyand Journal of Paleontology. He is a Fellow of the Geological Society of America, the Paleontological Society, and the Linnaean Society of London, and has also received fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the National Science Foundation. In 1991, he received the Schuchert Award of the Paleontological Society for the outstanding paleontologist under the age of 40. He has also been featured on several television documentaries, including episodes of Paleoworld (BBC), Prehistoric Monsters Revealed (History Channel), Entelodon and Hyaenodon (National Geographic Channel) and Walking with Prehistoric Beasts (BBC).

In this wide ranging conversation focused on Greg Lukianoff’s co-authored (with Jonathan Haidt) book The Coddling of the American Mind, and his new documentary film Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story, about the free speech champion Ira Glassner, who headed the ACLU for decades, he and Shermer discuss: the state of free speech today, how coddled today’s students are, the data on rates of depression and anxiety in students today, possible causes of the coddling of the American mind: social media, screen time, culture of safetyism, culture of victimhood, helicopter parenting, the decline of unsupervised, child-directed play, cancel culture and its effect on self-censorship and silencing speech, current rates of deplatforming and canceling in academia, the polarization of politics, when self-censorship is healthy, default to truth theory vs. default to skepticism theory, How gullible are we, really? how to combat the negative influencers on social media, a brief history of free speech in the 20th and 21th centuries, why people in power want to silence dissenters (even free speech advocates in power), and the value of viewpoint diversity. Greg Lukianoff is the president and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE). Lukianoff is a graduate of American University and Stanford Law School. He specializes in free speech and First Amendment issues in higher education. He is the author of Unlearning Liberty: Campus Censorship and the End of American Debate and Freedom From Speech. Read about his new film: Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story.

Why are so many humans religious? Why do we daydream, imagine, and hope? Philosophers, theologians, social scientists, and historians have offered explanations for centuries, but their accounts often ignore or even avoid human evolution. Evolutionary scientists answer with proposals for why ritual, religion, and faith make sense as adaptations to past challenges or as by-products of our hyper-complex cognitive capacities. But what if the focus on religion is too narrow? Renowned anthropologist Agustín Fuentes argues that the capacity to be religious is actually a small part of a larger and deeper human capacity to believe. Why believe in religion, economies, love? Fuentes employs evolutionary, neurobiological, and anthropological evidence to argue that belief — the ability to commit passionately and wholeheartedly to an idea — is central to the human way of being in the world. The premise of the book is that believing is our ability to draw on our range of cognitive and social resources, our histories and experiences, and combine them with our imagination. It is the power to think beyond what is here and now in order to see and feel and know something — an idea, a vision, a necessity, a possibility, a truth — that is not immediately present to the senses, and then to invest, wholly and authentically, in that “something” so that it becomes one’s reality. The point is that beliefs and belief systems permeate human neurobiologies, bodies, and ecologies, and structure and shape our daily lives, our societies, and the world around us. We are human, therefore we believe, and this book tells us how we came to be that way. Shermer and Fuentes also discuss: what it means to “believe” something (belief in evolution or the Big Bang is different from belief in progressive taxes or affirmative action), evolution and how beliefs are formed…and why, evolution of awe, wonder, aesthetic sense, beauty, art, music, dance, etc. (adaptation or exaptation/spandrel?), evolution of spirituality, religion, belief in immortality, Were Neanderthals human in the “belief” sense? human niche and the evolution of symbolism/language, evolution of theory of mind, how to infer symbolic meaning from archaeological artifacts, components of belief: augmented cognition and neurobiology, intentionality, imagination, innovation, compassion and intensive reliance on others, meaning-making, dog domestication and human self-domestication, Göbekli Tepe and the underestimation of ancient peoples’ cognitive capacities, the development of property, accumulation of goods, inequality, and social hierarchy, gender role specialization, monogamy and polyamory, gender and sex, and continuum vs. binary thinking, violence and warfare, political and economic systems of belief, and love as belief. Agustín Fuentes is a Professor of Anthropology at Princeton University. He is an active public scientist, a well-known blogger, lecturer, tweeter, and an explorer for National Geographic. Fuentes received the Inaugural Communication & Outreach Award from the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, the President’s Award from the American Anthropological Association, and is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.

Apollo’s Arrow offers a riveting account of the impact of the coronavirus pandemic as it swept through American society in 2020, and of how the recovery will unfold in the coming years. Drawing on momentous (yet dimly remembered) historical epidemics, contemporary analyses, and cutting-edge research from a range of scientific disciplines, bestselling author, physician, sociologist, and public health expert Nicholas A. Christakis explores what it means to live in a time of plague — an experience that is paradoxically uncommon to the vast majority of humans who are alive, yet deeply fundamental to our species. Featuring new, provocative arguments and vivid examples ranging across medicine, history, sociology, epidemiology, data science, and genetics, Apollo’s Arrow envisions what happens when the great force of a deadly germ meets the enduring reality of our evolved social nature. Shermer and Christakis discuss: the replication crisis in social science and medicine, determining causality in science and medicine, how we know smoking causes cancer and HIV causes AIDS, but vaccines do not cause autism and cell phones do not cause cancer, randomized controlled trials and why they can’t be done to answer many medical questions, natural experiments and the comparative method of testing hypotheses (e.g., comparing different countries differing responses to Covid-19), the hindsight bias and the curse of knowledge in judging responses to pandemics after the fact, looking back to January 2020, what should we have done?, comparing Covid-19 to the Black Death, the Spanish Flu, and other pandemics, bacteria vs. viruses, coronaviruses and their effects, and why viruses are so much harder to treat than bacteria, Bill Gates’ TED talk warning in 2015 and why we didn’t heed it, treatments: hydroxychloroquine, remdesivir, Vitamin D. How civilization will change: medical: coronavirus is here to stay — herd immunity naturally and through vaccines, personal and public health: handshakes, hugs, and other human contact; masks, social distancing, hygiene, long run healthier society (e.g., body temperatures have decreased from 98.6 to 97.9), economics and business, travel, conferences, meetings, marriage, dating, sex, and home life, entertainment, vacations, bars, and restaurants, education and schools, politics and society (and a better understanding of freedom and why it is restricted), from pandemic to endemic. Nicholas A. Christakis is a physician and sociologist who explores the ancient origins and modern implications of human nature. He directs the Human Nature Lab at Yale University, where he is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science, in the Departments of Sociology, Medicine, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Statistics and Data Science, and Biomedical Engineering. He is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science, the co-author of Connected, and the author of Blueprint.

Philip Goff, a philosopher at Durham University and author of 'Galileo’s Error,' dives deep into the mysteries of consciousness. He introduces panpsychism, suggesting consciousness is a fundamental aspect of all matter. Goff critiques traditional scientific methods, arguing they fall short in explaining consciousness. The conversation dances through dualism, free will, and the philosophical implications of our understanding of reality, offering fresh perspectives that could shape future explorations in science and morality.

The provocative thesis of Break It Up is simple: The United States has never lived up to its name—and never will. The disunionist impulse may have found its greatest expression in the Civil War, but as Break It Up shows, the seduction of secession wasn’t limited to the South or the 19thcentury. It was there at our founding and has never gone away. Investigative journalist Richard Kreitner takes readers on a revolutionary journey through American history, revealing the power and persistence of disunion movements in every era and region. Each New England town after Plymouth was a secession from another; the 13 colonies viewed their Union as a means to the end of securing independence, not an end in itself; George Washington feared separatism west of the Alleghenies; Aaron Burr schemed to set up a new empire; John Quincy Adams brought a Massachusetts town’s petition for dissolving the United States to the floor of Congress; and abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison denounced the Constitution as a pro-slavery pact with the devil. From the “cold civil war” that pits partisans against one another to the modern secession movements in California and Texas, the divisions that threaten to tear America apart today have centuries-old roots in the earliest days of our Republic. Richly researched and persuasively argued, Break It Up will help readers make fresh sense of our fractured age. Shermer and Kreitner discuss: what happens if Trump loses the 2020 election and refuses to leave, the possibility of the secession of California, Oregon and Washington, States rights vs. Federal power in issues like climate change, abortion, health care, etc., how Native American tribes and nations governed themselves and what the colonists learned from them, how the 1st colonial revolution was fought not to create a federation but to destroy one when Boston rebelled against the Crown-backed Dominion of New England, separatists movements throughout our history, Aaron Burr’s attempts to create a new nation he would head, spread of slavery to the west and Jefferson’s fear that it sounded like a “fire bell in the night,” why John Quincy Adams introduced a petition demanding the dissolution of the U.S.: If the day should ever come, (may Heaven avert it,) when the affection of the people of these states shall be alienated from each other; when the fraternal spirit shall give away to cold indifference, or collisions of interest shall fester into hatred, far better will it be for the people of the disunited states, to part in friendship from each other, than to be held together by constraint. how Southern states initially sought to expand the union of slave holding states, not secession, why reconstruction failed, the Civil War of the 1960s, Brexit, Texit, and Calexit, Russia support for American secessionist movements, James Madison’s observation (in Federalist Paper No. 51) about the problem all human groups/tribes/nations must solve: But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. Kreitner’s summation of America’s irrepressible conflict “The ‘irrepressible conflict’ was not just between North and South, freedom and slavery; it reflected something even deeper. The truly ‘irrepressible’ conflict was between union and disunion, whose forces bringing American together and those tearing them apart.” Richard Kreitner is a contributing writer to The Nation. He is the author of Booked: A Traveler’s Guide to Literary Locations Around the World. A graduate of McGill University, he has also written for The New York Times, Slate, Salon, The Baffler, Raritan, The Forward, and the Boston Globe. He lives in Brooklyn with his wife and daughter.