The Application Security Podcast

Jeff Willams of Contrast Security joins Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast to discuss runtime security, emphasizing the significance of Interactive Application Security Testing (IAST) in the modern DevOps landscape. After reflecting on the history of OWASP, the conversation turns to the challenges organizations face in managing their application security (AppSec) backlogs. Jeff highlights the alarming number of unresolved issues that often pile up, emphasizing the inefficiencies of traditional security tools.Jeff champions IAST, and here are a few highlights that he shares. IAST is ideally suited for DevOps by seamlessly transforming regular test cases into security tests. IAST can provide instant feedback, leading to a Mean Time To Repair (MTTR) of just three days across numerous applications. Unlike Static Application Security Testing (SAST) or Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST), which can take hours or even days, IAST can complete security testing during the build, fitting within the tight SLAs of modern pipelines.IAST offers developers comprehensive insights, which aids in a better understanding and quicker resolution of the identified issues. It is also adaptable, as IAST can detect vulnerabilities before they are exploited. Jeff argues that IAST's ability to work with existing test cases and provide rapid feedback makes it a perfect fit for the fast-paced DevOps environment.Jeff emphasizes that while runtime security can be a game-changer, it doesn't replace other essential aspects of AppSec programs, such as training. In conclusion, Jeff Williams champions IAST as a revolutionary tool in the application security domain. Its adaptability, efficiency, and depth of insights make it a must-have in the toolkit of modern developers and security professionals.Links:Jeff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/planetlevel/Java Observability Toolkit (JOT): https://github.com/planetlevel/jotIdentified by John Wilander: https://www.amazon.com/IDENTIFIED-hacker-thriller-headlines-newspapers/dp/B09NRF399JVenture in Security article about circle stickers:  https://ventureinsecurity.net/p/solving-the-circle-sticker-problemFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark Curphey and John Viega join Chris and Robert to explain the details of Chalk, Crash Override's new tool. Mark also talks about why ZAP departed from OWASP and joined the Software Security Project, highlighting some of the value and differences of both organizations. Open Source Software is important to the industry, but Mark calls on companies to contribute to the development and support of the projects they use. The conversation explores the challenges faced by companies, especially large tech firms, in managing their software engineering processes. Many organizations grapple with identifying code ownership, determining code versions during incidents, and prioritizing alerts from static analysis tools. Chalk emerges as a solution to these challenges, providing clarity and reducing friction in the software development and maintenance process.Toward the end, both speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the entire software engineering process to make informed decisions. They advocate for an "outside-in" perspective, urging listeners to step into the shoes of others and view challenges from a broader perspective. This holistic approach, they suggest, can lead to more effective decision-making in the realm of software development.Listen until the end for book recommendations on cybersecurity, business, and personal growth.Links:Crash Override: https://crashoverride.com/about/Chalk: https://crashoverride.com/docs/chalk/overview/The Software Security Project: https://softwaresecurityproject.org/The Open Worldwide Application Security Project (OWASP): https://owasp.org/Books:Cybersecurity Myths and Misconceptions... by Eugene H. Spafford, Leigh Metcalf, and Josiah Dykstra: https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/cybersecurity-myths-and-misconceptions-avoiding-the-hazards-and-pitfalls-that-derail/P200000007269/9780137929238Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/crossing-the-chasm-3rd-edition-geoffrey-a-moore?variant=32130444066850The Pragmatic Framework: https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/product/framework/Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habitsStart with Why by Simon Sinek: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maril Vernon is passionate about Purple teaming and joins Robert and Chris to discuss the intricacies of purple teaming in cybersecurity. She underscores the significance of fostering a collaborative environment between developers and the security team. Drawing from her experiences, Maril shares the challenge of development overlooking her remediation recommendations. She chose to engage directly with the developers, understanding their perspective and subsequently learning to frame her remediations in developer-centric language. This approach made her recommendations actionable and bridged the communication gap between the two teams.Maril also looks into the future of purple teaming, envisioning a landscape dominated by automation and AI tools. While these tools will enhance the efficiency of certain tasks, she firmly believes that the human element, especially the creativity and intuition of red teamers, will remain irreplaceable. She envisions a future where dedicated purple teams might be replaced by a more holistic approach, or white teams, emphasizing collaboration across all departments.Maril's powerful message on the essence of security: "You get what you inspect, not what you expect." She emphasizes the importance of proactive inspection and testing rather than relying on assumptions. And she re-states the centrality of cooperation between teams. Maril's insights serve as a reminder of the dynamic nature of cybersecurity and the need for continuous adaptation and collaboration.Helpful Links:Follow Maril: @shewhohacksPurple Team Exercise Framework: https://github.com/scythe-io/purple-team-exercise-frameworkScythe: https://scythe.io/MITRE ATT&CK Framework: https://attack.mitre.org/MITRE ATT&CK Navigator: https://github.com/mitre-attack/attack-navigatorAttackIQ: https://www.attackiq.com/SafeBreach: https://www.safebreach.com/ PlexTrac - https://plextrac.com/Atomic Red Team: https://atomicredteam.io/Book Recommendations: Security+ All-in-One Exam Prep: https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/comptia-security-all-one-exam-guide-sixth-edition-exam-sy0-601-conklin-white/9781260464009.htmlThe Pentester BluePrint - https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Pentester+BluePrint:+Starting+a+Career+as+an+Ethical+Hacker-p-9781119684305The First 90 Days - https://hbr.org/books/watkinsFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dan Küykendall visits The Application Security Podcast to discuss his series "Why All AppSec Products Suck" and explain why software companies should understand the uses and limitations of any security tool. The series aims to highlight the limitations of each tool and to help users make informed decisions when selecting the right tools for their needs. In this field, there is no such thing as an expert; there is always something new to learn.Dan, Chris, and Robert remember the late Kevin Mitnick, a well-known figure in the cybersecurity community. They share their personal experiences with Mitnick, highlighting his curiosity, humility, and the importance of remembering that everyone in the cybersecurity community is a regular person with feelings and concerns.The hosts discuss the challenges of dealing with heavy client-side applications, such as those built with React, and the difficulties faced by Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) scanners in handling different data formats and client-side complexities. They share their experiences in redesigning DAST scanners to handle various data formats and the importance of separating data formats from attack payloads. Dan helps Chris see the usefulness of DAST in certain situations, such as a large enterprise, without hiding some of the limitations inherent in DAST.The podcast also touches on the importance of training engineers in web security and the need for a collection of tools that address different security concerns. The hosts emphasize the value of designing security into applications from the beginning and the role of training in achieving this goal. Learning the basics, such as understanding TCP/IP, is still important for security and developers.To gain more valuable insights and resources from Dan KuykendallThe Dan On Dev website - https://danondev.comSocial Media- https://twitter.com/dan_kuykendall- https://twitter.com/Dan_On_Dev- https://instagram.com/dan_on_dev- https://facebook.com/danondevFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kevin Johnson is the CEO of Secure Ideas. He began his career as a developer but turned toward security when he discovered that the interface for an intrusion detection system, Snort, was out of date. This led him to create BASE (Basic Analysis and Security Engine), a testament to Kevin's proactive approach.Kevin has a deep-rooted passion for open-source projects. He highlights the challenges and joys of initiating and sustaining such ventures, emphasizing the pivotal role of community contributions. Kevin also details how to install and start with SamuraiWTF, a tool tailored for those keen on mastering application security. He outlines two paths for developers: one focused on learning application security intricacies and another on actively contributing to the project's growth.Kevin also discusses the notable departure of ZAP from OWASP. Kevin expresses his concerns and reflects on the broader implications of this decision on the cybersecurity community. The episode wraps up with a touch of nostalgia, as Kevin and Chris reminisce about their early tech adventures, showcasing Kevin's unwavering commitment to knowledge-sharing and community collaboration.FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tony Quadros, the AppSec Lumberjack, shares the unique career path that led him to find his passion in Application Security. The discussion delves into the work of an AppSec vendor, with Tony explaining his role and the responsibilities it entails. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the needs and environment of the customer, and whether the product he represents can fulfill their requirements. Tony also shares his philosophy of sales, centered around solving problems and providing business value.Tony reveals the challenges salespeople face in the cybersecurity industry, particularly the pressure to meet quotas and the need for good company culture. Chris, Robert, and Tony highlight the importance of setting realistic expectations at the executive level to avoid putting undue pressure on customers and prospects.In addition, the conversation touches on the importance of sales leadership in setting processes and creating a positive company culture. Sales leaders need to educate themselves about their products and market segment. Tony stresses they should provide value to customers through their conversations.He also talks about becoming involved with OWASP Maine and encourages community involvement for all members of the AppSec community.FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Steve Giguere, cloud security expert, discusses cloud app sec complexity, security by default, broadening AppSec with new security personas, and the consolidation of SAST and SCA. He recommends 'Hacking Kubernetes' and predicts the future of cloud app sec.

"Visualizing the Software Supply Chain" is a project which aims to kick off a discussion about the scope and breadth of the software supply chain.Paul McCarty emphasizes the importance of understanding what's in the software supply chain to secure it effectively. He uses the burrito analogy, stating that you can't decide if you want to eat it if you don't know what's in it. We discuss the nuances around the Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) and the importance of understanding the differences between various SBOMs, especially for companies that deploy frequently.The conversation also covers third-party components, such as APIs, SaaS solutions, payment gateways, and identity providers, which are part of the software supply chain. Paul gives the example of Stripe, a payment platform that includes software components and SaaS.Paul's project helps people understand the different threats associated with each category in the software supply chain. The episode concludes with a call to action for organizations to prioritize understanding their software supply chain and leveraging automation as much as possible.Gain valuable insights into securing the software supply chain and consider guidance on actionable steps organizations can take to enhance their security.Four key takeaways from the episode:Understanding the Software Supply Chain: Paul McCarty emphasizes the importance of understanding the scope and breadth of the software supply chain. He suggests you can't secure or have a valuable conversation about the software supply chain if you don't know what's in it.The Role of Third-Party Components:  Third-party components in the software supply chain are crucial. These can include APIs, SaaS solutions, payment gateways, and identity providers. Paul uses Stripe as an example to illustrate this point.The Nuances of the Software Bill of Materials (SBOM): SBOM has nuance. We highlight the importance of understanding the differences between various SBOMs, especially for companies that deploy frequently.Threat Thinking in the Software Supply Chain: We appreciate the depth of threat thinking in Paul's project. This approach helps people understand the different threats associated with each category in the software supply chain.Links:https://github.com/SecureStackCo/visualizing-software-supply-chainhttps://github.com/6mile/DevSecOps-PlaybookFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Farshad Abasi, a security consultant and AppSec expert, shares three models for deploying resources within application security teams. He discusses the challenges of implementing threat modeling in the Dedicated AppSec Person Model, the reduced allocation required in the Federated Model, and the benefits of the Champion or Deputy Model where developers handle day-to-day security issues with AppSec team support.

Kim Wuyts discusses her work in privacy threat modeling with LINDDUN, a framework inspired by Microsoft's STRIDE for security threat modeling. LINDDUN provides a structure to analyze privacy threats across multiple categories such as linking, detecting data disclosure, and unawareness. The framework has been updated over the years to incorporate new knowledge and developments in privacy, and it has become recognized as a go-to approach for privacy threat modeling.Kim believes that privacy and security can be combined and highlights the importance of protecting individuals' rights and data while securing systems and assets.Privacy by design, which focuses on reducing unnecessary data collection and considering individual needs, is discussed in relation to secure architecture and threat modeling. The Threat Modeling Manifesto is emphasized as a significant resource for promoting privacy threat modeling. Kim addresses emerging trends in privacy, including the concerns surrounding AI and responsible AI, and stresses the need for increased awareness among individuals and companies about privacy issues and the importance of privacy protection.Listen in as Kim explains the importance of collaboration between security and privacy teams, integrating privacy into security practices, and recognizing the value of privacy for both privacy protection and overall security.FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~