The Application Security Podcast

Hasan Yasar believes that everyone shares the responsibility of creating a secure environment, and this can only be achieved by working collaboratively. He underscores the idea that security is not an isolated endeavor but a collective effort, urging everyone to come together and build a world where safety and security are paramount.Yasar also shares his thoughts about education and security. He highlights the need for integrating security concepts right from the foundational levels of teaching programming languages. By introducing concepts like input validation and sanitization early on, students can be better equipped to handle security challenges in their professional lives. Yasar also mentions the importance of bridging the gap between real-world problems and academic research. By organizing workshops and connecting researchers with real-world challenges, there's an opportunity to create more awareness and solutions that are grounded in practicality.He contrasts the challenges faced in developing complex systems like simulators with those of web applications. In the context of simulators, every aspect, from memory management to user interface, needs to be meticulously crafted, keeping both safety and security in mind. This holistic approach ensures that safety and security are intertwined, ensuring a robust system. On the other hand, with web applications, developers often only see the tip of the iceberg, unaware of the underlying dependencies, making security a more challenging endeavor.Hasan Yasar introduces Chris and Robert to the concept of "actionable SBOM" (Software Bill of Materials). He passionately argues against viewing the SBOM as just a static file tucked away in repositories. Instead, Yasar champions the idea that it should be actively integrated into the infrastructure as code. This ensures that when deploying tools like Docker containers, there's a consistent alignment between the software components and their documented versions in the SBOM.Yasar further underscores the importance of real-time monitoring of the SBOM, especially in a production environment. This proactive approach not only keeps track of the software components but also alerts organizations to new vulnerabilities as they arise. By integrating the SBOM with vulnerability management tools, organizations can maintain a secure environment, ensuring timely updates and patches when potential threats are detected.The podcast also touches upon the challenges of maintaining an actionable SBOM in fast-paced development environments, where software updates can occur multiple times a day. However, Yasar remains optimistic. He believes that with the right mindset and tools, it's entirely possible to keep the SBOM updated and relevant, making it an invaluable asset in the ever-evolving world of software development and security.Links:Software Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society by Chris Hughes, Tony Turnerhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1394158483?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_PHSFCKCRM7Q8KZ41RDXTCybersecurity First Principles: A Reboot of Strategy and Tactics  by Rick Howardhttps://www.amazon.com/Cybersecurity-First-Principles-Strategy-Tactics/dp/1394173083Carnegie Mellon UniversiFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Varun Badhwar, a luminary in the cyber security industry, joins Chris and Robert to discuss scanning with context, SBOM plus VEX, and the developer productivity tax. The integration of SBOM plus VEX aims to streamline the vulnerability management process, ensuring that only relevant and critical threats are addressed. They also emphasize the importance of 'Scanning with Context' to avoid false positives and irrelevant findings.

The Application Security Podcast presents the OWASP Board of Directors Debate for the 2023 elections. This is a unique and engaging discussion among six candidates vying for a position on the board. Throughout the debate, candidates address pressing questions about their priorities as potential board members, the future direction of OWASP, and strategies for community growth and vendor neutrality. Topics such as vendor agnosticism, the allocation of profits from global OWASP events, and the importance of community involvement are among the critical issues discussed.The questions presented by Chris and Robert include:What experience do you have running an organization like OWASP? Have you been a C-level exec? Have you served on a Board of Directors? What hard decisions about the strategic direction of an organization have you personally made?What are your priorities as a board member, and what should not be on the board's agenda?How do you envision maintaining the legacy of OWASP's open-source projects in the future, especially compared to organizations like the Linux Foundation, which has successfully nurtured community engagement and secured funding for project sustainability?The individual paid memberships are in a steady decline year over year. What is your plan to increase the number of paid members of OWASP?How do you plan on remaining vendor agnostic and maintaining the open-source character of the org without becoming an incubator for companies?With the individual events happening around the globe under the OWASP brand, what should happen with the profit from those events? Should it become part of the Global OWASP bank account?For those interested in the future of OWASP and the perspectives of its potential leaders, this debate offers valuable insights. We want to invite all application security professionals to tune in and listen to the complete discussion to gain a deeper understanding of the candidates' visions and strategies for the advancement of OWASP in the coming years.Chris concludes with this message: "I can't stress enough the importance of your active participation in the upcoming board elections. These elections play a pivotal role, and you, as a valued member of the OWASP community, have the power to shape our organization's future. I want to remind you that there's a dedicated candidate page for each contender, complete with videos where they lay out their platforms and provide written answers to various questions. You must be informed. As an OWASP member, I urge you to exercise your right to vote. The voting period for the board of directors will open on October 15 and run until October 30. I genuinely believe that voting isn't just a right—it's a responsibility. Your vote will help determine the next generation of leaders who will steer OWASP in the coming years."Links:OWASP Global Board Candidates webpage:  https://owasp.org/www-board-candidates/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Itzik Alvas, Co-founder and CEO of Entro, is an expert on secrets security.Itzik joins Chris and Robert to discuss the significance of understanding and managing secrets, emphasizing the importance of knowing how many secrets an organization has, where they are located, and their potential impact. He elaborates on the three pillars of secrets management: listing and locating secrets, classifying and understanding their potential blast radius, and monitoring them for any abnormal behavior.The conversation takes a turn towards the future of secrets management, where Itzik believes there's a need for a shift in mentality. He stresses the importance of education in this domain, urging listeners to seek knowledge, understand the potential risks, and start with actionable steps. Itzik's perspective on prioritizing risks, investing in processes, and the challenges of remediation offers a fresh take on application security.As the episode wraps up, Itzik shares a key takeaway for the audience: the importance of getting educated about secrets, understanding their potential risks, and starting with quick, actionable steps. Chris Romeo, the host, and Itzik also touch upon their love for sci-fi, adding a personal touch to the conversation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone keen on enhancing their understanding of secrets security and management.Helpful Links:Entro -- https://entro.security/Recommended Reading:Foundation by Isaac Asimov -- https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-Isaac-Asimov/dp/0553293354Ringworld by Larry Niven -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1911GL1Seveneves by Neal Stephenson -- https://www.amazon.com/Seveneves-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0062334514FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Harshil Parikh is a seasoned security leader with experience building security and compliance functions from the ground up. He notably built the security and compliance team at Medallia from scratch and led it through several transitions. He is also a conference speaker, and, most recently, he co-founded Tromzo. Harshil shares insights about AppSec, running a startup, selling effectively, and provides justification for his mantra, "Context is king." Harshil underscores the importance of understanding context in security, emphasizing that it's the bedrock for making informed decisions. He also brings to light the significance of data-driven metrics in application security.Harshil champions the cause of enhancing the developer experience in application security. He posits that security professionals should be more than just watchdogs; they should be enablers, aiding developers in making the right security decisions. This involves equipping developers with the necessary tools and knowledge and providing them with the relevant context to understand the bigger picture. Harshil's insights into the trend of developer autonomy, especially in modern companies, are particularly enlightening. He discusses how developers today often take ownership beyond just coding, emphasizing the need for security guardrails to guide them.Rounding off the episode, Harshil touches upon the challenges of scaling application security programs in organizations. His main message resonates powerfully: the role of security professionals extends beyond mere problem detection. It's about risk management, improving developer experiences, and navigating the complex labyrinths of organizational hierarchies. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone keen on understanding the nuances of application security in today's dynamic tech landscape.Recommended Reading:The Metrics Manifesto by Richard Seiersen. https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Metrics+Manifesto%3A+Confronting+Security+with+Data-p-9781119515418FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jeff Willams of Contrast Security joins Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast to discuss runtime security, emphasizing the significance of Interactive Application Security Testing (IAST) in the modern DevOps landscape. After reflecting on the history of OWASP, the conversation turns to the challenges organizations face in managing their application security (AppSec) backlogs. Jeff highlights the alarming number of unresolved issues that often pile up, emphasizing the inefficiencies of traditional security tools.Jeff champions IAST, and here are a few highlights that he shares. IAST is ideally suited for DevOps by seamlessly transforming regular test cases into security tests. IAST can provide instant feedback, leading to a Mean Time To Repair (MTTR) of just three days across numerous applications. Unlike Static Application Security Testing (SAST) or Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST), which can take hours or even days, IAST can complete security testing during the build, fitting within the tight SLAs of modern pipelines.IAST offers developers comprehensive insights, which aids in a better understanding and quicker resolution of the identified issues. It is also adaptable, as IAST can detect vulnerabilities before they are exploited. Jeff argues that IAST's ability to work with existing test cases and provide rapid feedback makes it a perfect fit for the fast-paced DevOps environment.Jeff emphasizes that while runtime security can be a game-changer, it doesn't replace other essential aspects of AppSec programs, such as training. In conclusion, Jeff Williams champions IAST as a revolutionary tool in the application security domain. Its adaptability, efficiency, and depth of insights make it a must-have in the toolkit of modern developers and security professionals.Links:Jeff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/planetlevel/Java Observability Toolkit (JOT): https://github.com/planetlevel/jotIdentified by John Wilander: https://www.amazon.com/IDENTIFIED-hacker-thriller-headlines-newspapers/dp/B09NRF399JVenture in Security article about circle stickers:  https://ventureinsecurity.net/p/solving-the-circle-sticker-problemFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark Curphey and John Viega join Chris and Robert to explain the details of Chalk, Crash Override's new tool. Mark also talks about why ZAP departed from OWASP and joined the Software Security Project, highlighting some of the value and differences of both organizations. Open Source Software is important to the industry, but Mark calls on companies to contribute to the development and support of the projects they use. The conversation explores the challenges faced by companies, especially large tech firms, in managing their software engineering processes. Many organizations grapple with identifying code ownership, determining code versions during incidents, and prioritizing alerts from static analysis tools. Chalk emerges as a solution to these challenges, providing clarity and reducing friction in the software development and maintenance process.Toward the end, both speakers emphasize the importance of understanding the entire software engineering process to make informed decisions. They advocate for an "outside-in" perspective, urging listeners to step into the shoes of others and view challenges from a broader perspective. This holistic approach, they suggest, can lead to more effective decision-making in the realm of software development.Listen until the end for book recommendations on cybersecurity, business, and personal growth.Links:Crash Override: https://crashoverride.com/about/Chalk: https://crashoverride.com/docs/chalk/overview/The Software Security Project: https://softwaresecurityproject.org/The Open Worldwide Application Security Project (OWASP): https://owasp.org/Books:Cybersecurity Myths and Misconceptions... by Eugene H. Spafford, Leigh Metcalf, and Josiah Dykstra: https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/cybersecurity-myths-and-misconceptions-avoiding-the-hazards-and-pitfalls-that-derail/P200000007269/9780137929238Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/crossing-the-chasm-3rd-edition-geoffrey-a-moore?variant=32130444066850The Pragmatic Framework: https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/product/framework/Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habitsStart with Why by Simon Sinek: https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maril Vernon is passionate about Purple teaming and joins Robert and Chris to discuss the intricacies of purple teaming in cybersecurity. She underscores the significance of fostering a collaborative environment between developers and the security team. Drawing from her experiences, Maril shares the challenge of development overlooking her remediation recommendations. She chose to engage directly with the developers, understanding their perspective and subsequently learning to frame her remediations in developer-centric language. This approach made her recommendations actionable and bridged the communication gap between the two teams.Maril also looks into the future of purple teaming, envisioning a landscape dominated by automation and AI tools. While these tools will enhance the efficiency of certain tasks, she firmly believes that the human element, especially the creativity and intuition of red teamers, will remain irreplaceable. She envisions a future where dedicated purple teams might be replaced by a more holistic approach, or white teams, emphasizing collaboration across all departments.Maril's powerful message on the essence of security: "You get what you inspect, not what you expect." She emphasizes the importance of proactive inspection and testing rather than relying on assumptions. And she re-states the centrality of cooperation between teams. Maril's insights serve as a reminder of the dynamic nature of cybersecurity and the need for continuous adaptation and collaboration.Helpful Links:Follow Maril: @shewhohacksPurple Team Exercise Framework: https://github.com/scythe-io/purple-team-exercise-frameworkScythe: https://scythe.io/MITRE ATT&CK Framework: https://attack.mitre.org/MITRE ATT&CK Navigator: https://github.com/mitre-attack/attack-navigatorAttackIQ: https://www.attackiq.com/SafeBreach: https://www.safebreach.com/ PlexTrac - https://plextrac.com/Atomic Red Team: https://atomicredteam.io/Book Recommendations: Security+ All-in-One Exam Prep: https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/comptia-security-all-one-exam-guide-sixth-edition-exam-sy0-601-conklin-white/9781260464009.htmlThe Pentester BluePrint - https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Pentester+BluePrint:+Starting+a+Career+as+an+Ethical+Hacker-p-9781119684305The First 90 Days - https://hbr.org/books/watkinsFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dan Küykendall visits The Application Security Podcast to discuss his series "Why All AppSec Products Suck" and explain why software companies should understand the uses and limitations of any security tool. The series aims to highlight the limitations of each tool and to help users make informed decisions when selecting the right tools for their needs. In this field, there is no such thing as an expert; there is always something new to learn.Dan, Chris, and Robert remember the late Kevin Mitnick, a well-known figure in the cybersecurity community. They share their personal experiences with Mitnick, highlighting his curiosity, humility, and the importance of remembering that everyone in the cybersecurity community is a regular person with feelings and concerns.The hosts discuss the challenges of dealing with heavy client-side applications, such as those built with React, and the difficulties faced by Dynamic Application Security Testing (DAST) scanners in handling different data formats and client-side complexities. They share their experiences in redesigning DAST scanners to handle various data formats and the importance of separating data formats from attack payloads. Dan helps Chris see the usefulness of DAST in certain situations, such as a large enterprise, without hiding some of the limitations inherent in DAST.The podcast also touches on the importance of training engineers in web security and the need for a collection of tools that address different security concerns. The hosts emphasize the value of designing security into applications from the beginning and the role of training in achieving this goal. Learning the basics, such as understanding TCP/IP, is still important for security and developers.To gain more valuable insights and resources from Dan KuykendallThe Dan On Dev website - https://danondev.comSocial Media- https://twitter.com/dan_kuykendall- https://twitter.com/Dan_On_Dev- https://instagram.com/dan_on_dev- https://facebook.com/danondevFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kevin Johnson is the CEO of Secure Ideas. He began his career as a developer but turned toward security when he discovered that the interface for an intrusion detection system, Snort, was out of date. This led him to create BASE (Basic Analysis and Security Engine), a testament to Kevin's proactive approach.Kevin has a deep-rooted passion for open-source projects. He highlights the challenges and joys of initiating and sustaining such ventures, emphasizing the pivotal role of community contributions. Kevin also details how to install and start with SamuraiWTF, a tool tailored for those keen on mastering application security. He outlines two paths for developers: one focused on learning application security intricacies and another on actively contributing to the project's growth.Kevin also discusses the notable departure of ZAP from OWASP. Kevin expresses his concerns and reflects on the broader implications of this decision on the cybersecurity community. The episode wraps up with a touch of nostalgia, as Kevin and Chris reminisce about their early tech adventures, showcasing Kevin's unwavering commitment to knowledge-sharing and community collaboration.FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~