In this episode, Steve has a conversation with Tschäff (pronounced “Jeff”) Reisberg, the secretary of the Charlotte Metrolina Labor Council and a professional flight attendant, about the vital role of the labor movement through the lens of MMT.  They look at the intersection of movement building and labor's role, emphasizing that real economic advocacy should lead to tangible change. Steve contrasts this to the naivety of relying solely on voting within a captured oligarchic system.  They discuss historical and current labor struggles, touching on the need for transforming unions from business unionism to class struggle-oriented unions. Tschäff shares insights on the positive outcomes of recent labor actions which have revitalized union activity. They also talk about the importance of a job guarantee and consider how unions might engage with broader social movements, emphasizing solidarity and the power of labor to enact change by shutting down production. Tschäff Reisberg is not only an early proponent of MMT, but is secretary of the Charlotte Metrolina Labor Council, and an Association of Professional Flight Attendants member. He has been with the American Airlines Flight Attendants union in difficult and contentious times, including through Covid. This perspective has given Tschäff unique insights into the burgeoning labor movement we are experiencing today. 

**Each episode of Macro N Cheese has an “Extras” section filled with information and links to resources related to topics touched on in the interview. Go to https://realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ where you will also find a full transcript of the episode. Steve Grumbine’s guest is Steve Hall, a Professor Emeritus of Criminology who has published in the fields of criminology, sociology, anthropology, history, economic history, political theory and philosophy. The discussion covers a range of political and economic issues, including class consciousness and unity among the working class in the US and Europe. They discuss the historical fear and suspicion of the working class by the political and economic elites. They talk about the impact of identity politics and the need for unity among the working class. They also touch on the influence of neoliberalism and the weaponization of identity struggles.  They highlight the disconnect between what is presented in the news and the needs of the working class. They look at the concept of natural laws in economic models and how they often ignore the role of human decisions. The conversation ends with a discussion on the limitations of the current political system and the need for agency and alternative avenues of power for the working class.  Steve Hall is a Professor Emeritus of Criminology. He worked at the Universities of Teesside, Northumbria and Durham. He is the author of Criminal Identities and Consumer Culture, and Theorizing Crime and Deviance, and co-author of numerous others.  @ProfHall1955 on Twitter 

Bryce Greene was recently arrested during campus protests in support of Palestine. Steve, who believes ignoring the slaughter in Gaza is akin to ignoring the holocaust, invited him to describe his experience and insights into the student encampments and the anti-Zionist movement in the US. Bryce is a writer and organizer currently working towards his PhD in Informatics. His work focuses on media and geopolitical analysis. He emphasizes the importance of dismantling the myths and narratives surrounding American support for Israel and the oppression of Palestinians. He believes that studying Palestine brings understanding of the broader forces and processes that define American Empire. He goes into the impact of social media and alternative platforms in challenging the traditional narratives and gatekeepers that shape the public’s understanding. Or misunderstanding. They talk about the brutality of the Israeli state, including land grabs, settlements, and military violence against Palestinians. Bryce expresses frustration with the manipulation and gaslighting that occurs when the Holocaust is used to justify these atrocities. They also touch on the topic of university complicity in supporting Israel, criticizing universities for partnering with companies that enable genocide. Bryce discusses the use of counterterrorism measures against peaceful protesters and the surveillance of activists. He warns of the growing infrastructure for surveillance and repression, which could have serious consequences for organizing and activism. Bryce Greene is a writer, student and organizer based in Indiana. His work focuses on media and geopolitical analysis. He has appeared in Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting, as well as many other venues. He is currently pursuing a PhD in Informatics. @TheGreeneBJ on Twitter 

**On Tuesday evening we’re holding a listening party and informal discussion of this episode. Join us for Macro ‘n Chill. Register here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZArcuqsqD0tH92MxVmJIqj4PHtojQGgFl2l Grassroots political organizer Jay Ponti talks with Steve about his book, "Be the Revolution: How Occupy Wall Street and the Bernie Sanders Movement Reshaped American Politics." Jay maintains that there’s a vibrant network of people doing great work that isn’t covered by corporate media.  “Politicians are not heroes who can save us. We have to save ourselves. That's what the Occupy Wall Street movement taught me. We can't rely on someone else to make the changes we want to see. We have to get organized, we have to get active, and we have to fight for our own rights.” Jay shares his experiences in Occupy Wall Street and the motivations behind it. He describes how the movement emerged as a response to the 2008 financial crisis and the fraudulent practices of financial institutions. He also touches on the Bank Exit campaign, which aimed to divest from banks funding the Dakota Access Pipeline. He speaks of the challenges and successes of the campaign and its connection to the broader movement for social and economic justice. Steve and Jay discuss the need for grassroots movements and an inside-outside strategy to bring about real change. Jay Ponti is a grassroots political organizer, trainer, and consultant who has participated in some of the most important social movements of the last decade, including Occupy Wall Street, Standing Rock, and Bernie Sanders’s two presidential campaigns. He is the author of "Be the Revolution: How Occupy Wall Street and the Bernie Sanders Movement Reshaped American Politics," Find his work at jayponti.com @jayponti on Twitter 

Aaron Good, a political scientist and historian, talks with Steve about the US political system and power dynamics. They explore the roles of the deep state and oligarchy in policy-making and the suppression of democracy.“This is a very low point in the history of democracy. Perhaps the lowest point ever, if you put it in a historical context. The United States was never really a democracy. Democracy isn't so much an either/or proposition, I would say it's a continuum ...“Even in the generic sense of political rights and universal suffrage and basic 'one person, one vote' rules, the US comes up short. The electoral college is a ridiculous system. There are barriers to getting on the ballot.”The conversation includes a discussion on the role of empire and the pursuit of global dominance in shaping US politics and policies. Aaron argues that the US prioritizes its imperial ambitions over domestic issues, resulting in a loss of political power for most of the population.Aaron Good holds a doctorate in political science from Temple University. He is the author of American Exception: Empire and the Deep State. Find his podcast at patreon.com/americanexceptionFollow Aaron’s work at americanexception.substack.com/@Aaron_Good_ on Twitter

In a previous episode of this podcast, David Van Deusen spoke about the radical ten-point program adopted by the Vermont State Labor Council, AFL-CIO. This time, he and Steve discuss David’s new book, Insurgent Labour: The Vermont AFL-CIO from 2017 to 2023.They look at the importance of working-class unity, the need for unions to be more democratic and inclusive, and the need for a new approach to labor organizing. They touch on the problems of racial oppression, police unions, global labor movements, healthcare, and the futility in relying on the political parties. David's book provides insights and lessons from their experiences in Vermont, offering a potential roadmap for a more effective and inclusive labor movement in the US and abroad.They discuss the global race to the bottom and international solidarity of the working class.“We can't have the US government foreign policy defining our foreign policy as a labor movement. We need to look for those groups that are truly engaged with struggles against the capitalists, against the elite, against the billionaires. And we need to make one on one direct relationships with them and support them where we can ... We should be reaching our hands out as a labor movement, as a US labor movement, saying 'what can we do to support you?' Because if they win there, they're going to set the example that could spread to other regions of the Middle East, Europe, and aspects of the United States. And shouldn't we be supporting democracies, especially those that actively invite labor activists, labor unions, to be part of the molding of the society that they labor within?”Check out the other interview with David:https://realprogressives.org/podcast_episode/episode-186-the-power-of-organizing-with-david-van-deusen/David Van Deusen is a longtime organizer and militant union leader. He served two terms as President of the Vermont AFL-CIO (2019-2021 & 2021-2023) and is part of the working class left United! Slate. He is also a member of Democratic Socialists of America and a past member of Anti-Racist Action. His new book from PM Press is called Insurgent Labor: The Vermont AFL-CIO 2017-2023.

When most of us think about bail, we focus on the financial burden it presents to the accused. This week’s guest is Jeffrey J. Clayton, Executive Director of the American Bail Coalition. He talks to Steve about the complicated anti-democratic trap that is our criminal justice system.Jeff explains that across the US there are plans in place to eliminate bail. (One would think that’s good news. One would be wrong.) In reality, these plans result in greater violations of civil liberties. Bail is being replaced by pre-trial incarceration and risk assessment tools using computer algorithms (AKA profiling?)In his dissent in United States v. Salerno, Justice Thurgood Marshall warned that we are quickly moving to a criminal justice system where "a person innocent of any crime may be jailed indefinitely." Marshall called the bail system a shortcut to conviction.Steve and Jeff discuss the most obvious ways to address crime – by providing jobs, housing, and education or training. Some caught up in the criminal justice system need recovery treatment. In the US, those healthcare services have become punitive. Jeff refers to them as the dragnet of the state.Steve speaks of addressing the material conditions that contribute to criminal behavior. He brings up the concept of a federal job guarantee and talks about resource allocation and macroeconomic justice.Jeffrey J. Clayton serves as the Executive Director of the American Bail Coalition (ABC). He holds a B.B.A. from Baylor University, an M.S. in Public Policy from the University of Rochester, N.Y., and a J.D. from the Sturm College of Law, University of Denver.@ambailcoalition on Twitter

**Check our website for upcoming events such as book clubs, RP Live webinars, and the Tuesday evening discussion group, Macro ‘n Chill. https://realprogressives.org/This week’s episode is the audio track of a recent webinar with historian Esha Krishnaswamy. Esha is now living in Russia to research and write a people’s history of the Soviet Union.The discussion begins with the story of the First World War and the Bolshevik Revolution. The formation of the USSR as a proletarian state shook the capitalist nations of the West to their core. As a result, the Soviet Union was regularly under threat economically, militarily, as well as propaganda warfare.Esha talks about the history of the Soviet Union and its ultimate dissolution against the will of the majority. She delves into the impact of its fall on various countries and the global economy. She looks at the shock doctrine years of Boris Yeltsin in the 1990s and the effects of such extreme austerity and privatization on the average citizens. She then goes into the Putin era and the move towards social democracy.Finally, she touches upon NATO, the IMF, and the war in Ukraine.Esha Krishnaswamy is a writer and media critic, whose focus is on history, foreign policy, and Modern Monetary Theory. She hosts Historic.ly and Late Nights with Lenin.Find her work at historicly/substack.com@eshaLegal on Twitter

“Assange is being targeted by the US government because he doesn't conform to the dominant culture of the US prestige media. He's not going to be invited to the White House Correspondents' Dinner. He's not going to be given a Pulitzer. He's not going to be treated as one of them.”Steve’s guest is journalist Kevin Gosztola, author of Guilty of Journalism: The Political Case Against Julian Assange. Kevin has been advocating for freedom of the press since the George W. Bush administration and the imperialist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.Steve and Kevin discuss the lack of available unbiased information, particularly regarding events like the ongoing genocide in Gaza and the presidential election. They look at the collusion between mainstream media outlets and the government, the demonization of individuals who counter the mainstream narrative, and the targeting of journalists and newsrooms.They highlight the efforts of the US empire to prevent information from reaching the public and discuss the significance of the documents published by WikiLeaks. They also discuss Assange's current situation and the deterioration of his health.Kevin Gosztola is a journalist, press freedom advocate, and the author of Guilty of Journalism: The Political Case Against Julian Assange from Censored Press and Seven Stories Press. He publishes The Dissenter Newsletter at TheDissenter.org and has spent the past 10-15 years reporting on Assange, WikiLeaks, the war on whistleblowers, press freedom, and government secrecy.@kgosztola on Twitter

Economist L. Randall Wray discusses the labor theory of value in MMT, neoclassical economics, and the importance of understanding money in a capitalist economy. He compares Keynes and Marx, emphasizes the federal job guarantee, and highlights the structure of the capitalist economy in determining the value of money.