The 2024 fictional film “Civil War” shows an America that has been fractured into armed factions. It’s not the dystopian fantasy that interests us here, however, it’s the collapse of the currency! In the movie, the US dollar has lost its value, like the fate of Confederate money after the (real) US Civil War. With his imagination piqued by the film, Steve asked Brett Scott, author and monetary theorist, to help us think about the dynamics of commerce, currency, and systemic forces in times of societal collapse and global capitalism. Brett and Steve look at historical cases like Zimbabwe's hyperinflation and Ireland's banking strike. They discuss barter systems, mutual credit, dollarization, and informal credits. The conversation delves into broader themes of pre- and post-capitalist markets, moral logics within economies, and the systemic nature of global capitalism. Highlighting the inadequacy of simplistic elite-blaming narratives, they advocate for understanding economic interdependence and discuss Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) as a counter to austerity. Brett Scott is an author, journalist, and activist, who explores the intersections between money systems, finance, and digital technology. He’s the author of The Heretics Guide to Global Finance: Hacking the Future of Money. His latest book is Cloudmoney: Cash, Cards, Crypto, and the War for Our Wallets. Find more of his work at https://alteredstatesof.money/ brettscott.substack.com @Suitpossum on Twitter

“I was still a true believer, but doubts were starting to creep in at a certain point when you saw a large segment of our coalition cheering the brutal death of Rachel Corrie under a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer. And then, you know, a month later, cheering for the death of Tom Hurndall who was killed protecting a Palestinian child from Israeli snipers and was shot in the head by an expert marksman looking through a scope.” Jonathan Kadmon is on the leadership team of Real Progressives and writes for the website. He also helps put out this podcast. Today, however, he is talking to Steve about his vast knowledge of Zionism, Palestine, and US support for Israel. Jonathan was raised in a Republican household and became a passionate supporter of Israel during his college years, when he was given training and taken on trips by powerful players in the Israel lobby. After growing up a Jew in the South, he now became part of a powerful community and embraced it with pride. He talks of his experiences and describes his increasing discomfort as discrepancies between fact and propaganda became too great to ignore. Steve, a vocal critic of the administration’s role in the current genocide in Gaza, is regularly attacked for his views. Jonathan, having studied in Israel and been trained by AIPAC, says: “That stuff bounces off me like I was wearing body armor... I'm like, oh yeah, you're going to tell me I'm a self-hating Jew? Are you kidding me? My resume and my credentials here probably outstrip anything you have. And the fact of the matter is, I do this because I am a Jew and I'm proud of being a Jew. And I'm proud of my history and my heritage. I learned the lessons of my history and my heritage.” The discussion goes into historical and political manipulation by Zionist organizations to blur the lines between Jewish identity and support for Israel, the erasure of Palestinian history, and the media and political complicity in perpetuating the Zionist narrative. The episode includes profound insights into Holocaust education, which is intentionally designed to emphasize the trauma and neglect the political economy. Jonathan Kadmon is on the leadership team at Real Progressives, where he is a writer and a co-host of the weekly discussion group, Macro ‘n Chill. @JonathanKadmon on X

In June, Real Progressives hosted a webinar with Carlos García Hernández on his book, Fiat Socialism: Achieving the Goals of Socialism Through Modern Monetary Theory. After hearing his Macro N Cheese interview last year, we wanted to open the door for our volunteers to ask questions and engage with Carlos on this topic. He is an important voice applying the insights of MMT to socialist theory. “‘Fiat socialism’ is my name for an open and prosperous society ruled by the principles of the Modern Monetary Theory and functional finance.” In talking about his book, Carlos laid out the goals of fiat socialism: Full employment Full and prudent use of material resources The guarantee of the five essentials to every citizen: food, housing, clothing, health services, and education Social security at all major exposed points in the social structure (eg, old age, sickness, accident, temporary unemployment, and childbearing) Labor standards, to be assured by labor unions This episode includes his presentation followed by Q&A with the event’s attendees. Carlos García Hernández is the founder and director of Lola Books, a publishing house that has introduced MMT to Spanish and German readers. He is the author of Fiat Socialism: Achieving the Goals of Socialism through Modern Monetary Theory. @Carlos_G_H_ on Twitter

According to Mischa Geracoulis, of Project Censored, media is a public good and journalism is a public service. “Being able to access information, being able to join in, participate in the free flow of information, to have an opinion, to formulate a stance –that is actually considered a human right, under Article 19 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.” It only follows that censorship is a violation of human rights. Project Censored defines censorship more broadly than a government’s control over the media. It is the suppression of information, whether purposefully or not, by any method – (including) bias, omission, underreporting, or even self-censorship by the reporter or publisher. Steve and Mischa discuss the urgency of getting the public to understand the genocide in Gaza, and crucial for Americans to see their government’s role in it. They look at the challenges faced by independent press, as well as special problems of news deserts. They also talk about the need for media literacy while much of the public relies on social media, where algorithms play a suppressive role. Mischa Geracoulis is a media literacy expert, writer, and educator, serving as Project Censored’s curriculum development coordinator. Mischa is on the editorial boards of the Censored Press and the Markaz Review. @MGeracoulis, @ProjectCensored on Twitter

Steve’s guest this week is Dirk Ehnts, a lecturer and authorwho specializes in modern monetary theory (MMT). They discuss Dirk's new book,"A Simple Guide to the Monetary System," which aims to simplify theoften complex concepts of MMT. They discuss the significance of the Copernican turn to MMT,which refers to the shift in perspective that occurred during the COVID-19pandemic. Dirk explains that the massive increase in government spending andthe lack of inflationary effects challenged conventional economic theories thathad previously dismissed MMT. Dirk explains the theory behind inflation targeting and howit has failed to deliver on its promises of price stability and fullemployment. He also highlights the role of trade policy and income inequalityin shaping economic outcomes, pointing out that these factors are oftenoverlooked in favor of focusing solely on interest rates and inflation.The conversation shifts to the rise of the BRICScountries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) and the geopoliticalbattles that have influenced international trade. They discuss the idea oflosing faith in the US dollar as the primary world reserve currency and thepotential impact on global trade. Dirk emphasizes that the public needs to understand howmoney and resources interact in order to find solutions to problems likeclimate change. He believes that as more people become aware of MMT and itspotential policies, there will be a demand for change.Dirk Ehnts is a German heterodox economist.He is one of the leading proponents of Modern Monetary Theory in Europe. Ehntsis a member of the standing field committee History of Economic Thought of theGerman economists association. Every summer since 2016 Ehnts has held a courseon MMT at the Summer School of Maastricht University. In February 2019, heorganized the 1st European MMT Conference. He is also a lecturer at the MMTsummer school at the University of Poznan in Poland.

When corporations are guilty of poisoning the population, it is newsworthy. When state and local governments are complicit, it is newsworthy.  Yet the US media refuses to cover some of the most scandalous and tragic stories of our time, despite overwhelming evidence of corporate and government culpability.Jordan Chariton, CEO of Status Coup, has many years of experience working for both mainstream and independent news organizations. He and Steve discuss the media’s role in perpetuating the distorted narrative. If they’re not ignoring the facts, they’re misrepresenting them.  Jordan talks about his continuing coverage of the Flint water crisis and the East Palestine train derailment. He describes the case of Graphic Packaging International in Kalamazoo, Michigan, where a paper mill has been releasing deadly gases into a poor black community for decades. Despite complaints and environmental violations, the plant has not been shut down.He finds himself waging war on two fronts; after digging up the truth he struggles to get other media to help spread the information. He and Steve highlight the gatekeeping role of social media algorithms and clickbait in determining what news gets attention.Jordan also mentions his upcoming book, "We the Poisoned," which exposes the Flint water crisis cover-up and the poisoning of 100,000 Americans.Jordan Chariton, Status Coup CEO, is an independent progressive journalist who has worked inside and outside the belly of the corporate media beast for over a decade. He worked at Fox, MSNBC, and TYT, before starting Status Coup.@JordanChariton on Twitter@StatusCoup 

**On Tuesday evening we’re gathering for a listening party and discussion of this episode of the podcast. Get the Zoom link here https://realprogressives.org/event/macro-n-chill-284/  If anyone still thinks adopting the Euro was a good idea, this episode should set you straight. Writer and journalist Thomas Fazi joins Steve to talk about the critical issues surrounding the European project, beginning with elite reaction to the recent election of Marine Le Pen in France, which Thomas calls a script that, as an Italian, he has seen play out many times: “And that is one where as soon as a “populist” or “anti-establishment” government comes into power, or has a good chance of coming to power, as Le Pen does now ... then the kind of democracy-proofing mechanisms of the European Union, and of the Euro, kick into action.” Markets begin selling off the bonds of the country in question, in this case France, because they’re said to be spooked by the election results. The mainstream media frames this as the market’s natural reaction to “irresponsible” politicians gaining power.  “But in fact, this is a very simplistic narrative, because, as MMT teaches us, it's the central bank that ultimately controls the interest rates on the government bonds...markets can only spook governments and countries, and can only put [financial] pressure on countries, so long as a central bank allows markets to do it.”  The European Central Bank has every interest in using financial markets to discipline governments, ensuring they don’t stray off the neoliberal path.  The discussion goes into the US role in European geopolitics, the importance of economic and industrial sovereignty, and the negative impacts of relying on imports and being subordinate to the US. They go into the purpose of the bombing of the Nord Stream gas pipeline, the petrodollar system, and the destruction of Ukraine. They also question the MMT community’s disturbing reluctance to speak out on geopolitics, especially the ongoing genocide in Gaza.    Thomas Fazi is a critically-acclaimed writer and journalist. His books include The Battle for Europe: How an Elite Hijacked a Continent — and How We Can Take It Back (Pluto Press, 2014), Reclaiming the State: A Progressive Vision of Sovereignty for a Post-Neoliberal World (co-authored with Bill Mitchell; Pluto Press, 2017) and The Covid Consensus: The Global Assault on Democracy and the Poor — A Critique from the Left (co-authored with Toby Green; 2023). He is the co-director of Standing Army (2010), an award-winning feature-length documentary on US military bases featuring Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky; His articles have appeared in numerous online and printed publications. He is a columnist for the British magazine UnHerd and a contributing editor for the American magazine Compact.  @battleforeurope on Twitter 

** For a full transcript of this and every episode of the podcast, go to our website, where you will also find an “Extras” section with information and links to resources discussed in the episode. realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/  At Macro N Cheese we’ve been having an ongoing conversation about the need for radical change in the labor movement and the rise of class struggle unionism.  Traven Leyshon is president of the Green Mountain Central Labour Council and part of the leadership team of the Vermont State Labour Council. Traven, who has over five decades of labor organizing experience, talks to Steve about the pushback from national labor institutions against Vermont's newly elected progressive leadership and what it represents for the movement. The episode delves into the historical context of labor shrinkage and addresses the practical challenges of organizing in a neoliberal economy dominated by corporate money. He emphasizes the need for a participatory democracy within unions, contrasting this approach with the dominant model of business unionism, where members often feel disconnected and disengaged. Traven and Steve highlight the need for workers to have a deeper knowledge of how the system operates in order to fight back against the capitalist order. They also touch on issues such as the need for a job guarantee and the impact of austerity measures on working-class people.  In the face of climate crisis and continual economic crises, building a powerful, inclusive labor movement is more urgent than ever. Current president of the Green Mountain Central Labor Council, part of the leadership team of the Vermont State Labor Council, AFL CIO member of OPEIU 153, Teamster truck driver for Teamsters for a Democratic Union, and proud rank and file UAW Audi worker.  @TravenL on Twitter 

Chief Economist of ITUC Daniel Kostzer and host Steve delve into Argentina's economic challenges under President Milei. They explore factors driving inflation, the IMF's role, and the historical economic models of Argentina. The discussion highlights the resilience of Argentine society amidst ongoing economic struggles.

Dan Kovalik, author and human rights lawyer, joins Steve to talk about his new book, The Case for Palestine: Why it Matters and Why You Should Care. The conversation goes into the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the concept of settler colonialism, and the current situation in Gaza.They criticize the US government's support for Israel and the lack of accountability for the ongoing genocide. They blame the corporate media for not adequately informing the public about these issues, allowing for a privileged perspective that ignores the suffering.  They touch on the role of social media in raising awareness of the atrocities, discuss the need for the American public to unify around principles of peace & to call out the US for war crimes and also talk about the attempts to silence criticism of genocide by labeling it as anti-Semitic or terrorist sympathizing.Dan Kovalik is a labor and human rights lawyer and peace activist. He is the author of the recently released book, The Case for Palestine: Why it Matters and Why You Should Care. Some his other books include The Plot to Control the World: How the US Spent Billions to Change the Outcome of Elections Around the World, and The Plot to Scapegoat Russia: How the CIA and the Deep State have Conspired to Vilify Russia@danielmkovalik on Twitter