On Brand with Nick Westergaard

Patrick Holly has worked for agencies like R/GA and brands like Apple, Uber, and Harley Davidson, where he served as brand director. Currently, he's Upwork’s Executive Creative Director leading a team of writers, art directors, designers, and strategists who are changing the way the world thinks about work. We discussed all of this and more this week on the On Brand podcast.About Patrick HollyPatrick Holly is a multidisciplinary creative whose career has run the gamut from agencies like R/GA and AKQA, to brands like Apple and Uber, to building a content platform with Steph Curry. He currently serves as Upwork’s Executive Creative Director leading a team of writers, art directors, designers, and strategists who are changing the way the world thinks about work. Prior to joining Upwork, Patrick was the brand director at Harley Davidson, overseeing content, PR, social, and brand partnerships. When Patrick is not working, he spends most of his time on two wheels or watching Sex and the City reruns with his wife and dogs in Austin, Texas.Episode HighlightsWorking for a brand as “effortlessly cool” as Harley Davidson. What was that like? “It was stressful!” Patrick laughed, noting that the pandemic created challenges in connecting these rabid fans without motorcycle shows. “We ended up holding a No Show on Instagram—an All-Show, No Go.”Redefining how work works. In the wake of the pandemic, Upwork launched its latest brand campaign to address one of the biggest changes in how we work since the invention of the assembly line: the shift away from full-time, in-person work to hybrid workforce models that leverage remote talent. Patrick called this “Hollywood model” while I joked that it's like building a heist team.“A brand is only as strong as the team building it,” Patrick notes. “As advertisers and marketers, our job is to stand out in a way that feels honest to the brand.” That's why the Upwork launch included a zombie musical to communicate that the old ways of work are dead. “Who better to tell you something's dead than a zombie?”What brand has made Patrick smile recently? “I'm gonna share a local Austin brand—Tito's.” The vodka brand recently captured Patrick's attention with a campaign on why they weren't creating a seltzer as other spirit brands have. Sometimes you can stand out by zipping where others zag.To learn more, check out the Upwork website and connect with Patrick on LinkedIn.As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lee LeFever literally wrote the book on explanation. In addition to being the author of The Art of Explanation and Big Enough, he’s the co-founder of Common Craft where he helps leading organizations simplify their explanations through guides, videos, and visuals. We discussed all of this and more this week on the On Brand podcast.About Lee LeFeverLee LeFever is the co-founder of Common Craft and the author of two books: The Art of Explanation and Big Enough. Since 2007, Common Craft has won numerous awards, worked with respected brands like LEGO, Google, Intel, and Ford, and created original explainer videos that have earned over 50 million online video views. Today, Common Craft produces educational guides, ready-made videos, and digital visuals that are used by educators in over 50 countries. Lee and his partner Sachi are Common Craft’s only employees and work from their home off the coast of Washington State.Episode HighlightsWhy is it so hard for us to explain things? “We do it every day and we can take it for granted.” Lee went on to note that, just as learning to be a better runner, you can learn to be a better explainer.The curse of knowledge gets in the way. “It curses us by forcing us to use jargon, add examples, and more.” Lee notes that it’s best to err on the side of being familiar. “We’re not dumbing it down, we’re making it familiar.”How to make an explainer video. Common Craft has produced explainer videos that have earned over 50 million views online. All of these are grounded in solid explanations. Where do you start? “Start like you’re talking to your parents—explaining what you do and why it matters.”What brand has made Lee smile recently? On a recent trip to Costco, Lee got a new Winix air purifier that connected seamlessly to his home wifi.To learn more, check out the Common Craft website and Lee’s personal website for info on his books.As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Todd Irwin is the Chief Strategy Officer and Founder of Fazer. The brand strategy agency has worked with Fortune 500 brands like Coca-Cola and Nike as well as SMBs and startups. Todd joined me this week on the On Brand podcast to discuss Fazer’s positioning-based brand strategy methodology.About Todd IrwinTodd Irwin is the Chief Strategy Officer and Founder of Fazer, a brand strategy and creative agency. He has developed a compelling brand strategy methodology that delivers business-to-brand strategic alignment to position companies more competitively in markets. Todd brings 30+ years of brand strategy experience, helping big brands such as Coca-Cola, Nikon, Verizon, Walmart, Pepsi, Ann Taylor, Macy's, Olive Garden, and The New York Times, as well as a host of SMBs and early-stage funded growth companies. Episode Highlights“Branding is a tangible asset,” Todd noted, defying the popular theory that brands are intangible—and thus not always seen as a valuable aspect of the business. “Brand is the product, the people—that’s value.” This also helps tell the value story internally.High brand connection pays off. Todd cited research from Google and Gartner that showed a 500% gain in customers when they have a “high brand connection.”Workshopping brand strategy. Todd stressed that it’s important to have leadership at the table. “You need the C-level, the chair, the founder. You need the vision.”What brand has made Todd smile recently? Todd came prepared. “It’s easy to go to the Apples and Warby Parkers of the world,” Todd began before explaining that his smile came from the personal brand of Ken Burns after watching his recent Benjamin Franklin documentary.To learn more, go to the Fazer website.As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cindy McGovern is the founder of Orange Leaf Consulting and author of the new book Sell Yourself, which helps people create authentic personal brands that they can live day in and day out. We discussed how to do this work and how it intersects with organizational brands this week on the On Brand podcast.About Dr. Cindy McGovernDr. Cindy McGovern is the founder of Orange Leaf Consulting, which helps organizations, entrepreneurs, and individuals create dynamic and robust sales processes. Before launching her business, McGovern was a college professor of communication as well as a successful sales professional. She has worked with hundreds of organizations of all sizes and specialties across the globe and is now one of the most sought-after business and sales authorities. Episode Highlights“Personal branding IS challenging,” Cindy clarified early on. “It’s holding up a mirror. A personal brand represents who you are, how you behave, what you say, how you react to others and how they react to you. A personal brand is how you present yourself to the world.”What are the three critical components in creating a successful personal brand? Create. If you don’t devote some time and thought to creating a personal brand, or if you think you don’t need one, then the people you interact with will create one for you. They might not create the same one you would like to have. So it is crucial to deliberately create a brand that is authentic and that you will be able to live day in and day out. Live. Simply creating a brand will not help you at all unless you live it consistently. If your brand is “nice,” be nice—all the time. If it’s “professional,” don’t let your professional guard down—ever, at least in public. Sell. If you create an authentic personal brand and live it like it’s who you are, it will be easy to sell others on believing you can live up to your brand. Selling your brand is the same as selling yourself. But it takes some planning, effort, and a conscious choice to rely on your brand to sell yourself. Cindy shared further detail about each during the show.How do personal brands connect with organizational brands? These two should work well together but it can be a challenging conversation. “At the end of the day, the organization is stronger for it if everyone brings their best selves to work,” Cindy notes.What brand has made Cindy smile recently? Are you ready for something shocking? Cindy smiled recently from an experience with an airline. And it was a good smile too! Learn what United did to make Cindy smile this week on the show.To learn more, check out Cindy's website and her book Sell Yourself.As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Branding expert and author David Aaker returns for his third appearance on the On Brand podcast. While he thanked me for having him back, I thanked him for continuing to create interesting work. His latest book is The Future of Purpose-Driven Branding which we discussed this week on the show.About David AakerDavid Aaker, is the author of over one hundred articles and 18 books on marketing, business strategy, and branding that have sold over one million copies. A recognized authority on branding, he has developed concepts and methods on brand building that are used by organizations around the world. His latest book is The Future of Purpose-Driven Branding. Episode HighlightsPurpose vs. mission. We jumped right in with a big question that David takes on in the first chapter of his book. What’s the difference between purpose and mission? “Purpose starts as a why question. Mission is a how question.” The two are related but different, which is why David addresses both in his book.Brand as a lens. I jokingly asked David how he keeps writing books. What more is there to say?? David answered on the importance of brand as a lens that you can use to examine issues like stories (the subject of his first On Brand interview) and innovation (what we chatted about during his second visit to the show). “You need branded programs to do all of these things.”The importance of signature programs. David spent a lot of the interview talking about why brands need signature programs that reinforce their social program rather than ad-hoc charitable, socially conscious activities. He points to Dove Beauty as the gold standard while also citing what Thrivent has done to support Habitat for Humanity.What brand has made David smile recently? David pointed to one of his favorite examples, the brand conglomerate Unilever. Specifically, he defended Hellman’s purpose-driven work that was recently attacked in The Wall Street Journal. David makes a good—and on-brand—case for why Hellman’s is on the right track.To learn more, check out his blog at davidaaker.com (his next post will be on the Hellman’s issue noted above) and his new book The Future of Purpose-Driven Branding.Want more David Aaker On Brand? Check out his first appearance on signature stories and his second appearance on innovation.As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michelle Mazur is a messaging expert who helps brands of all shapes and sizes craft their own unique and powerful messages. This isn’t as easy as it sounds. But with her “3-Word Rebellion” approach—drawing on social movements and her background in market research—Michelle helps brand builders simplify and clarify. She shares how this week on the On Brand podcast.About Michelle MazurDr. Michelle Mazur is a messaging expert who works with brilliant business owners who are shaking things up but having trouble talking about it. She combines the tools of successful social movements with the qualitative research skills she earned in her Communications Ph.D. to help them craft their powerful, captivating message. The author of the 3 Word Rebellion, host of the Rebel Uprising podcast and featured in Fast Company, Entrepreneur, and Inc., she knows that speaking about what you do in a clear and captivating way is the key to reaching the people you could help the most and making more money in your business. Episode Highlights“We are terrible at describing what we do!” Michelle exclaimed as we began our conversation. Why is this? Part of it is the Curse of Knowledge but she also cited the work of Lee Lefever noting that our level of knowledge on our business or area of expertise is often Level 10. The mistake we make is addressing our audience at Level 6 when they’re actually at a Level 2.The Russian nesting dolls of messaging. The metaphor was mine but Michelle’s definitions for these concepts imply this hierarchy. “What is messaging? It’s what you want to say. Copywriting is how you turn that into words. And marketing amplifies this—but you have to have the messaging first.”Just three words? How does this work?!? As Michelle explained, 3-Word Rebellions are everywhere. “Look at Simon Sinek and Start with Why and Tim Ferris with the Four-Hour Work Week. This has its roots in social movements such as Black Lives Matter, Make America Great Again, and Me Too. You want to create curiosity around the change you want to see in customers or your industry.”What’s one thing listeners can do to get started? If you’re excited about crafting your 3-Word Rebellion but don’t know where to start, consider this advice from Michelle: “Listen to your clients—they’re constantly talking about you. Plus, it’s great when you can pull from customer language.”What brand has made Michelle smile recently? Funko Pops! I couldn’t agree more—with over 20 of the fun figurines adorning my desk and the walls of the On Brand podcast recording studio.To learn more, check out Michelle’s 3-Word Rebellion audio workshop and her website.As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guillaume Wiatr is the author of Strategic Narrative and the Principal/Founder of MetaHelm, a strategy consulting firm specializing in helping business leaders unlock profit and energize their team with a shared narrative grounded in their organization's purpose. His work teaches leaders how to build a strategic narrative. We discussed all of this and more this week on the On Brand podcast.About Guillaume WiatrGuillaume Wiatr is the author of Strategic Narrative: A Simple Method That Business Leaders Can Use to Make Everyone Understand Their Business, Get Behind it and Believe In It. His company, MetaHelm, guides CEOs, founders, and business owners to align teams and accelerate innovation adoption.A former big-firm strategy consultant, Guillaume has founded four ventures. He is sought after by senior executives of companies like Alaska Airlines, the Gates Foundation, Generations For Peace, AIG, L'Oréal, Spencer Stuart, GAP, Google, Microsoft, and the US and French governments. Guillaume teaches and mentors entrepreneurs at startup incubators, EMLyon international business school, and the University of Washington Master of Science in Entrepreneurship, ranked #3 in the US. Episode HighlightsStorytelling vs. Strategic Narrative. We can’t resist definitions here on the On Brand podcast. As Guillaume was quick to note, businesses have many different stories. “Narratives are systems of stories that you intentionally design to bring customers on your journey.”“Strategic narrative is an act of leadership.” Of course, this work should involve the usual suspects from branding and marketing but for your narrative to shape your organization’s culture the CEO has to be “holding the pencil” as you facilitate these important conversations. Guillaume reinforced this with a story from his work with Horizon Airlines.“Leadership is not a title,” notes Guillaume. “It’s who shows up to participate in a conversation that has an impact on the brand.”What brand has made Guillaume smile recently? In keeping with the idea of bringing about transformation, Guillaume cited the work of Girl’s Garage.To learn more, check out the Metahelm website and connect with Guillaume on LinkedIn and Twitter. As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As Director of Strategy at Smashbrand, Siena Dexter helps both online and offline brands refine their point-of-sale positioning and packaging. Believe it or not, in 400+ episodes, we haven’t spent that much time talking about these incredibly important topics and touchpoints. Sienna and I discussed point of sale, packaging, and testing this week on the On Brand podcast.About Siena DexterSiena Dexter is Director of Strategy and Associate Partner at Smashbrand, where she works with FMCG brands to create branding and packaging that’s proven to perform at point of sale through quantifiable data. Working internationally at agencies in London, Dusseldorf, and now Idaho, Siena has positioned brands from startup challengers to multi-brand enterprises for proven commercial success. Episode HighlightsWe don’t talk about packaging and point of sale enough … Not to be confused with Encanto’s Bruno, we don’t talk about these important topics nearly enough as we’re distracted by the abundance of shiny new—often digital—things in marketing today. “Direct to consumer is seeing opportunities from shelf,” Siena notes.“Testing feeds into strategy which feeds into testing,” Siena said. However, brands and agencies alike tend to keep testing at arm's length when it should be better integrated—as it is at Smashbrand—to be a more holistic aspect of your ongoing strategy.What’s one thing listeners can do to help with their point of sale today? “Knowledge should be shared more,” Siena began, noting that there are two important things brands can do …“First, understand your audience and make sure they’re the heroes of your story. Not your brand,” Siena cautions. “How does your purpose fit into the lives of consumers?” She also suggested that marketers should start looking at the shelves as they shop and consider the various messages and hierarchies and how they relate to one another.What brand has made Siena smile recently? Siena came prepared for this question! While she was originally going to talk about Dirtea mushroom powders and teas, she settled on a new story featuring a pair of salt and pepper shakers “pinched from Virgin Atlantic.” Listen to the episode for the full story—along with a surprising connection to our point-of-sale conversation.To learn more, check out the Smashbrand website and connect with Siena on LinkedIn. As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brett Hyman is the president, CEO, and founder of NVE Experience Agency, which was recently named Ad Age’s Experiential Small Agency of the Year. As an expert in building and activating meaningful brand experiences from consumer products to Comic-Con, I asked Brett to help us define some of the labels used (and misused) in experiential marketing during our conversation on the On Brand podcast.About Brett HymanBrett Hyman is the president, CEO, and founder of NVE Experience Agency, a privately-owned brand experience and production company with offices in Los Angeles, New York, and London. Guided by 16 years of global agency and brand leadership experience, along with the principle that the right moment will transform someone forever, Hyman leads NVE’s team of cross-industry experts to deliver culturally connected campaigns and transformative experiences for some of the world’s most iconic brands and Fortune 500 companies including Amazon, Anheuser-Busch, Apple, Pandora, Lincoln Motor Co., Hennessy, Tinder, Twitter, AT&T, PlayStation, and more. Episode Highlights“There are peaks and troughs in every brand experience,” Brett noted. “Even with going to Disney, it’s not a constant peak.” You have to work to amplify the peak moments.Fans vs. the masses. You have to define who you’re trying to reach with your experience—the super fans or the masses. With a recent Dungeons and Dragons activation for Paramount, NVE wanted to reach new people.Lighting Round! I asked Brett to define some of the most used and misused terms when it comes to experiential marketing. Activation—“It used to be a physical build-out. Now it’s how a brand shows up for consumers.” Experience—“What consumers believe they will feel as a result of interacting with a brand.” Experiential 1.0—“What a brand is going to do.” Experiential 2.0—“How, where, and why they’re going to do it—how brands show up for their customers and build a deeper and more meaningful relationship.” Integrated—“Embedding strategic insights, cultural empathy, and inclusive values into marketing.” Interactive—“Transcending the boundaries of events by allowing consumers to use technology to extend their experience.” How can a small brand build meaningful experiences? First, it doesn’t have to be as big as Comic-Con. “Don’t worry about making it big. Make it real.”What brand has made Brett smile recently? “It was actually one of the first things we talked about during the interview”—NVE’s recent brand activation for Paramount’s Dungeons and Dragons series at Comic-Con.To learn more, check out the website for Brett’s company NVE Experience Agency. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn. As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gina is CEO/Chief Creative Officer of The Craftsman Agency, where she focuses on creating magical experiences and immersive stories for brands like Disney and Microsoft. Where does one start with experiential marketing and brand experience? We discussed all of this and more this week on the On Brand podcast.About Gina MichnowiczGina Michnowicz is CEO and Chief Creative Officer of The Craftsman Agency, where she focuses on creating magical moments through custom experiential marketing and immersive storytelling for B2B and B2C brands. With past clients including Cisco, Disney, Paramount, and Microsoft, Gina has led projects from concept to delivery of immersive digital experiences, experiential installations, websites, and bespoke advertising campaigns.Gina’s work spans from marketing and sales within brands, to agencies, to management consulting. Her time in management consulting has strengthened her ability to think both strategically and creatively, leading teams to push the envelope with work that surprises and intrigues prospective clients. Episode HighlightsFirst things first, how do you create a magical brand experience for an already magical brand like Disney? “Oh it’s everything—sometimes it’s a 12” chocolate dress for Cruella,” Gina explained citing her agency’s recent activation for the Disney film.The importance of being unexpected. “Especially today” Gina stressed, noting the noisy world we consumers find ourselves in.Asking questions. Gina’s background as a management consultant provided great context for developing strategic brand experiences and activations. “Management consultants ask a lot of questions.” This is especially useful in determining clients’ needs and what form of experience will work best.How do you measure brand experience? “You have to connect and have social be your elixir.” Gina also mentioned the importance of hashtags, ambassadors, and simplicity in executing a successful experience.What brand has made Gina smile recently? “Disney makes me smile every day,” Gina noted. She also mentioned regular smiles from the Four Seasons Maui.To learn more, connect with Gina on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn and check out The Craftsman Agency website. As We Wrap … Listen and subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, iHeart, YouTube, and RSS. Rate and review the show—If you like what you’re hearing, be sure to head over to Apple Podcasts and click the 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review to help others find the show. Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is a part of the Marketing Podcast Network. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices