

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing
Legal Talk Network
Are you hungry for more clients? Tired of wasting time (and money) on marketing that doesn’t work? This podcast serves up real-world tips and proven digital marketing strategies that actually drive results for law firms.Hosted by Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam—two legal marketing pros who’ve been in the trenches. You’ll get practical advice on client acquisition, website teardowns, and what’s actually working for lawyers today—all with a touch of mirth.Congratulations, you found it—THE podcast for lawyers who want to grow their practice! So, if you’re ready to take your business to the next level, pull up a seat and dig in with Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 22, 2023 • 34min
Legal Marketing MADNESS: The Sweet 16 of Marketing Tactics
Conrad and Gyi hit the hardwood as the top marketing channels square up for the Big Dance.It’s March Madness… Marketing Madness that is! Gyi and Conrad fill out their tournament brackets, not with their favorite teams, but rather the top marketing channels and tools. Then it’s a battle to the end as the guys pit these tactics head-to-head to see which will come out on top. From the Sweet 16 to the final matchup, the action never stops! Tune in to see which marketing powerhouse reigns supreme.The News:
ChatGPT 4 launched this month. Now it’s taking standardized tests such as the LSAT … and it’s beating most humans.
The new March Google Core update is out.
TikTok is under fire again amid threats to ban the video app from the U.S.
Conrad made a special appearance as a guest on The Game Changing Attorney podcast.

Mar 8, 2023 • 40min
Dispatches from ABA TechShow: Authentic Branding || Why Invest in Marketing?
The day has finally come: Conrad and Gyi are live from ABA Techshow! F.O.P’s Allison Johs and Rukayatu “Ruky” Tijani share the importance of investing in marketing and authentic branding and purpose.(1:46) You may be surprised at how few small firms and solo practices have a true budget, never mind a specific marketing budget. So how do these firms know how much money they have and how to use resources effectively? In our first segment Allison Johs of Legal Ease Consulting gets right into the results from the latest ABA Tech survey with tips on how to deploy your resources to grow your business.(12:38) Being intentional and goal oriented starts with knowing yourself, your clients, and your goals. Consider Rukayatu “Ruky” Tijani, a shining example of how lawyers can build their brand and create meaningful connections with real people. Hear how Tijani sets goals, creates routines, and thrives as her authentic self.Resources from This Episode:ABA TechshowCheck out Alison Joh’s book, “How to Do More in Less Time: The Complete Guide to Increasing Your Productivity and Improving Your Bottom Line, Second Edition”CanvaGroove appLunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTubeLunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Feb 22, 2023 • 34min
ABA Techshow 2023 Preview || Google Ads: Too Expensive?
A rundown of what Conrad and Gyi will be talking about at the March ABA Techshow. Plus, Google Ads are so dang expensive, amiright?-----Oh, boy! ABA Techshow is really, really soon, and the guys can’t contain their excitement. On the pod, Gyi and Conrad give you a preview of their sessions and what you can expect; including branding and positioning, a data-driven section on the future of legal marketing, and using LinkedIn for brand acceleration.I mean, you ARE going to Techshow aren’t you? Ha, of course you are. Be sure to bring all of your homemade #LHLM gear, hunt down the guys, and share your undying love for all things Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.Then, Conrad tries to make Gyi’s head explode with the question, “Are Google Ads too expensive?” So, are they? Maybe, just maybe, you’re asking the wrong question. If the only thing you are measuring is cost-per-click, you might be a little bit off-base. Learn from the best on how to analyze the true cost and benefit of your digital ad spend.The News:
A.I. saw a $100 billion market cap loss. What happened? And how did Google react?
DoNotPay is in the news again, and it could mean legal troubles are brewing.
Using fruit snacks to generate good reviews from jurors.

Feb 8, 2023 • 45min
Maximizing Your Marketing Mix || SEO-Optimization is Killing Your Content
Are Gyi and Conrad even real anymore? The “guys” discuss the most effective and efficient use of your marketing dollar. Then, it’s into the listener mailbag to commiserate over the ubiquity of unbearable (but SEO-optimized!) legal content.We’re not sure who carries eggs in baskets anymore, but we’re all familiar with the classic idiom. And, it applies to your marketing mix as well. Gyi and Conrad evaluate each of the major marketing channels, weighing cost and time-to-success to help you think through how to build a own well-rounded (egg-shaped?) and effective marketing portfolio. Then the guys respond to a listener question: Has compelling, useful content died in Legal? Lawyers are supposed to be good writers, right? So, how come so much of their marketing content is just plain awful? It seems that we all stopped creating content that an actual person would find useful in favor of serving our SEO god, Google. Remember, the client journey doesn’t end when they click your link. You still have to convince them to actually hire you. Hold fast, don’t give up; you can still create good content and win the SEO wars. The News:
Gyi talks Google Business Profiles on Legal Talk Network's New Solo podcast
Google's latest approach to ChatGPT content
Lawyerist’s "Best Law Firm Websites" contest
ABA Tech Show: Register now!

Jan 25, 2023 • 36min
ChatGPT for SEO: Trap or Treasure? || CallRail’s 2023 Marketing Outlook Report
Yes, it’s more of that pre-sentient AI everybody loves, ChatGPT! But first, we take a look at CallRail’s 2023 Marketing Outlook for Law Firms.-----As a devotee of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, CallRail’s 2023 Marketing Outlook for Law Firms offers you the chance to see how well you’ve been following along. But, regardless of whether the report surprises you, the takeaways are crucial. Gyi and Conrad break down some of the most significant findings and give you the context you need to understand how they should impact your practice.And, you know we couldn’t leave it alone. Everyone’s favorite subject—ChatGPT—is still top of mind. With Google flip flopping on whether AI content will help or hurt your site, should you be using it? Avoiding it? The guys break down the pros, cons, and today’s best practices, so you’re ready for tomorrow.The News:
Lawyerist and Affinity have tied the knot. Congrats to the happy couple!
Google’s messed with stuff again, but at least they told us how, so you can adjust how you look at your metrics.
And DoNotPay will… well, PAY a cool million if you let a computer feed you arguments in front of the Supreme Court.
Mentioned in This Episode:CallRail 2023 marketing outlook for lawyersDoNotPay/Supreme Court on TwitterChatGPT Marketing Explained on YouTubeGoogle’s AI can see through your eyes what doctors can’tABA TechshowABA Techshow Startup AlleyRegister for TechshowLunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTubeLunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Jan 11, 2023 • 32min
Conrad’s Crystal Ball: The Re-Return || Marketing Resolutions for 2023
The New Year! A look back, a look ahead. Plus, resolutions you can start today that can make you even more prosperous in 2023.-----It’s that time of year again; Conrad and Gyi put away the snow-globes and bring back the crystal ball—what can we say, orbs really tie the room together—and make their predictions for 2023. But, what good are prognostications without accountability? First, the gents look back at what they got right, and what they got wrong in 2022. And with a success rate about as good as Nostradamus, without all the weird murkiness, they give it another go, gazing deep into the future to tell you what you can expect for 2023.And then, let’s talk about the one thing everyone loves committing to: New Year’s Resolutions. The guys share their personal resolutions for 2023, and then, out of the kindness of their hearts, tell you yours too. Be inspired and equipped to make your practice thrive in 2023.The News:
Layoffs in legal tech and digital marketing.
CallRail’s new2023 outlook for legal marketing is available now.
And Gyi’s new article, “My First ABA Techshow,” is online.
Mentioned in This Episode:“Top 4 legal technology news stories of 2022,” Nicole Black, ABA Journal“2023 Marketing Outlook for Law Firms,” CallRail“My First ABA Techshow,” by Gyi Tsakalakis“Bankruptcy Statistics,” American Bankruptcy InstituteJennifer Gore-Cuthbert ABA TechshowABA Techshow Startup AlleyRegister for TechshowClio Legal Trends ReportLunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTubeLunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Dec 28, 2022 • 41min
The 12 Days of Legal Marketing: The Musical!
In a holiday special, Conrad and Gyi share a festive song – about legal marketing. A great recap of 2022’s biggest lessons.-----The holidays: a time when everybody (hopefully) takes a little time off for themselves and their families; a time to turn off the email, to sit and relax and suffer the endless stream of Christmas music. Speaking of which…Lunch Hour Legal Marketing™️ proudly presents: “The 12 Days of Legal Marketing.” The guys use this once in a lifetime opportunity to share their impressive singing skills, along with a fun reminder of some legal marketing tips we’ve shared over the past year. And be sure to stick around for a special fireside retelling of the tale of Zippy the Chicken.From dark social to pay-per-clicks a-clicking, here’s a look at some of the biggest topics Conrad and Gyi covered in 2022. Thank you for joining us at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing! Happy New Year, and may your 2023 be filled with fat stacks.The News:
China is banning A.I. generated content without watermarks, or are they?
Ken White, at The Popehat Report, bails on Twitter.
Techshow registration is open, as are applications for Startup Alley (deadline is Jan. 6, people).

Dec 14, 2022 • 45min
ChatGPT and Deep Fake Marketing || Congratulations, Your Law Firm is Now a Media Company
Welcome, A.I. overlords! ChatGTP, the rise of artificial intelligence content creation, and why your law firm needs to make more cat videos.The guys have a new best friend: ChatGPT. Well, maybe not best friend, but it’s pretty damn cool and maybe, fills us with just a wee bit of existential dread. Recent, high profile advances in AI-driven content generation have painted us (literally?) a vision of the future. However, legal content is highly nuanced and localized. Is that even what people want? What is good content anyway and does it matter who—or what—wrote it?Then, are you still just running a law firm, or are you a media company too? If you’re still avoiding content development, social media, video, etc., there may be an expiration date on your practice. You don’t have to hire a TikTok dance choreographer to build brand affinity and start renting space in potential clients’ minds. Get your name out there and make yourself the go-to firm for anyone thinking “law.”The News:
The explosion of ChatGPT and deep fake marketing.
Google’s Infinite scroll is getting some buzz. Congratulations, you’re all on the front page now!
ABA Techshow’s “Startup Alley” is accepting applications for 2023.

Nov 23, 2022 • 37min
Working From Home Or Living At Work? || Why No One Likes Your Law Firm
How setting boundaries when working from home can make you happier, plus knowing the difference between building brand recognition and building brand affinity.-----Like it or not, the pandemic opened Pandora's box of WFH, but does it feel like you’re working from home or living at work? The lines have certainly blurred. However, that doesn’t mean you have to be on call 24/7 waiting by the phone to meet a client’s every beck and call. Gyi and Conrad are here to help you find the right balance of flexibility, technology, and boundaries to meet your client’s needs and still keep your sanity. You’ll just need to find some other time to listen to podcasts since you fired your commute. *wink*There are three parts to branding: Know, Like, and Trust. Sure, you can put up a billboard easily enough, but how do you get people to actually LIKE you? That, dear friends, is the difference between brand awareness and brand affinity. The guys tell you why you’ve woefully bungled your Veteran’s Day messaging, spank you on the bottom, and implore you to get out there and do better. Maybe the best segment Conrad and Gyi have ever done? You be the judge. The News:
Battle of the industry reports. Does it seem like every legal directory is putting out a “State of the Industry” report? Maybe it’s because they are.
Lawmatics announces new integration with MyCase.
Is there a hint of a decline in the prevalence of Google local search results?
References mentioned: Lunch Hour Legal Marketing now on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok LawSites, “Small Firm Lawyers Are Awash With Optimism About Their Practices, Thomson Reuters Survey Finds,” Martindale-Avvo, “Understanding the Legal Consumer 2022” Lawmatics Integrates With MyCase A Glitch in the Google Local System? Morris Lilienthal YouTubeLevinson & Stefani YouTubeDerrick Law Office on YouTubeChris Walker, Refine Labs Clio Legal Trends Report

Nov 9, 2022 • 42min
Data that Makes Dashboards Dazzle || Lawyers, Your Clients Want Flat Fees
Gyi and Conrad talk about gorgeous data dashboards and the gorgeous-er data behind them. Then, the guys dig into how your clients really feel about fees and billing. Plus, book club!-----Straight from the YouTubes: Gyi and Conrad answer a listener question regarding metrics dashboards. Plot twist, it’s less about the tools you use to display your data, and more about the integrity of the data you put into it. Get your data, keep it clean, and make it actionable for your law firm. Throwing money at a pretty dashboard may make you feel more on top of things, but getting down and dirty with the raw numbers will put you more in touch with your business.Next, you’ve heard this a million times: your clients want alternative billing methods. And yet, according to the Clio Legal Trends Report, only 37% of law firms offer flat fee pricing. We know change is hard, but seriously, why aren’t you listening to what clients say about fees and billing?And then, back to the business bookshelf for David C. Baker’s “The Business of Expertise.” Selling expertise is exactly what attorneys do, even if you aren’t allowed to say you're an expert. “Five Stars” - Gyi Tsakalakis.The News:
Google is changing Similar Audiences, the algorithm for finding ad targets.
Plus, some Google spam updates. Be in the know.
And a mystery CRM product coming in January, we know nothing … nothing!
Finally, some talk about SEO, rankings, and reviews. This never gets old.