State of Tel Aviv, Israel Podcast

On October 7, 2023, 19-year-old Itay Chen was serving in the IDF on the border with Gaza. His father, Ruby, recalls the agonizing wait until the IDF concluded that he had been taken hostage by Hamas. Not until March 2024 did they return to tell the Chen family that, based on intelligence they had gathered, the military declared that Itay had been killed. To this day the family has no concrete evidence that Itay is alive. Or not. And so they live with a sliver of hope and face each day with courage and tenacity, fighting for the release of every single hostage. Ruby speaks about the attention and compassion shown to the hostage families by Presidents Biden and Trump and the staff in their administrations. In contrast, he has had virtually no contact with Israeli government officials. Watching Ruby (and so many traumatized families) continue to mobilize to ensure that awareness of their loved ones languishing in captivity remains in the forefront of public awareness is inspiring and heartbreaking. In addition to my interview with Ruby, I also include some “in the moment” reporting from today at the Sha’ar HaNegev junction in southern Israel, where people demonstrated, quietly, lining the highway with yellow flags. It was at this intersection that Hamas massacred so many on that horrible morning before continuing to the nearby town of Sderot, which they occupied for two days. It is 600 days later, and in many ways we are standing still.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

In this second episode of my recent interview with Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, we begin by discussing his reaction to the horror of October 7. Within minutes of hearing and reading reports of the Hamas atrocities, he said he knew that this would result in total disaster for Hamas as well as the people of the Gaza Strip. He decided to pivot in his very comfortable life and job to immerse himself in explaining and advocating the conundrum of Gazans. Alkhatib is adamant that the majority of the people living in the Strip hate Hamas. And now they are suffering immeasurably because of Hamas. He refuses to despair, and he refuses to accept that Palestinians cannot and will not be self-governing. He also refuses to blame Israel for the disaster that has befallen the people of the Gaza Strip - including many members of his family and personal friends. This is what we talk about. That horrible day. What has ensued... and what may transpire. Ahmed is determined and hopeful.As a postscript to our discussion, I would be remiss if I did not mention the tragedy that occurred yesterday. Nine children of a female pediatrician who was working in a hospital were killed in an Israeli airstrike. Understandably, the international community is outraged. So are many Israelis. These tragedies... at this point there has just been too much pain and death and destruction for all. I am also confident that Ahmed would allow himself to feel immense sorrow but would temper it with his signature rationalism. We must, he would maintain, find a way to end this endless conflict and suffering.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib leads Realign For Palestine, a groundbreaking new project at the Atlantic Council. This project challenges entrenched narratives in the Israel-Palestine discourse and develops a new policy framework for rejuvenated pro-Palestine advocacy. Realign For Palestine aims to cultivate a new generation of Palestinian voices committed to a two-nation solution, nonviolence, and radical pragmatism.Alkhatib serves as a resident senior fellow with the Atlantic Council’s Middle East Programs, where he writes extensively on Gaza’s political and humanitarian affairs, is an outspoken critic of Hamas, and a promoter of a radically pragmatic approach to peace and Palestinian statehood as the only path forward between Palestinians and Israelis. His writing and opinions have been published and featured across the US, Israeli, and international press, and his views are prominently featured across social media platforms, with his accounts that have tens of thousands of engaged followers.Alkhatib holds a bachelor’s degree in business administration and a master’s in intelligence and national security studies. He grew up in Gaza City and left Gaza in 2005 to attend college in the United States as an exchange student. Much of Ahmed’s experience is influenced by having grown up in Gaza during the Oslo peace process, and the difficulties resulting from Oslo's failure, and the rise of Hamas and Islamism in Gaza.Following the deadly October 7 massacre, Alkhatib’s life was deeply impacted when three different airstrikes killed 33 of his immediate and extended family members. Still, he has made a deliberate choice to be part of breaking the cycle of dehumanization and defying the cycle of hatred, incitement, violence, and revenge. In his presentations to students, policymakers, and thought leaders, Alkhatib exemplifies how others can exercise individual responsibility, spread empathy, and engage peacefully in the often-divisive Israel and Palestine discourse. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

Like so many of us, Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib’s life took a hairpin turn on October 7, 2023. Until age 15, he lived in the Gaza Strip. He then attended high school in the U.S. on an exchange program and has never left. Ahmed has returned to Gaza often over the decades and still has many family members living there. After October 7, he left his old life in California and relocated in Washington D.C. Since that time he has emerged as a leading intellectual activist articulating an alternate Palestinian view, which he says is far truer to reality. Ahmed openly loathes and criticizes Hamas, believing their destructive ideology to have brought ruin and misery on his people. That was true before October 7, he says, but has been more egregious since. He writes, speaks, engages; all in the hope of forging and finding a better way forward for Palestinians and Israelis. In Part I of our conversation, Ahmed discusses how he moved from aligning with a more simplistic and hateful view of Israel and Jews to what he calls radical pragmatism. I call it moderate. See what you think. We are all so divided. And it is important, in my view, to engage outside of our opinion silos, whatever our comfort zone might be. Ahmed does that. And he has a lot of very interesting things to say. Part II drops tomorrow. We get into October 7. And all that has followed. Thanks for listening.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib leads Realign For Palestine, a groundbreaking new project at the Atlantic Council. This project challenges entrenched narratives in the Israel-Palestine discourse and develops a new policy framework for rejuvenated pro-Palestine advocacy. Realign For Palestine aims to cultivate a new generation of Palestinian voices committed to a two-nation solution, nonviolence, and radical pragmatism.Alkhatib serves as a resident senior fellow with the Atlantic Council’s Middle East Programs, where he writes extensively on Gaza’s political and humanitarian affairs, is an outspoken critic of Hamas, and a promoter of a radically pragmatic approach to peace and Palestinian statehood as the only path forward between Palestinians and Israelis. His writing and opinions have been published and featured across the US, Israeli, and international press, and his views are prominently featured across social media platforms, with his accounts that have tens of thousands of engaged followers.Alkhatib holds a bachelor’s degree in business administration and a master’s in intelligence and national security studies. He grew up in Gaza City and left Gaza in 2005 to attend college in the United States as an exchange student. Much of Ahmed’s experience is influenced by having grown up in Gaza during the Oslo peace process, and the difficulties resulting from Oslo's failure, and the rise of Hamas and Islamism in Gaza.Following the deadly October 7 massacre, Alkhatib’s life was deeply impacted when three different airstrikes killed 33 of his immediate and extended family members. Still, he has made a deliberate choice to be part of breaking the cycle of dehumanization and defying the cycle of hatred, incitement, violence, and revenge. In his presentations to students, policymakers, and thought leaders, Alkhatib exemplifies how others can exercise individual responsibility, spread empathy, and engage peacefully in the often-divisive Israel and Palestine discourse. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

I’m delighted to be back in action with my regular guest on the podcast, Ya’akov Katz. He is a State of Tel Aviv favorite because he brings such deep knowledge and passion to his analysis. There is no sugar coating or equivocating with Ya’akov – but he is always grounded and well-reasoned. And today that is a tall order. We discuss Israel’s threats to renew the war on Gaza with a major ground offensive, likely after President Trump’s visit to the region in mid-May. In the meantime, tens of thousands of Israelis are receiving call-up notices for reserve duty. But 18 months after October 7, this nation is weary and many are no longer accepting the government’s direction without serious challenge. The domestic discontent is deeply concerning. Of course, any discussion of war in Gaza invokes and involves the fate of the hostages; of 59 still in that hellhole, it is believed that 24 are alive. Barely. (As I write this note I just learned that President Trump commented earlier today that three of the 24 hostages have been executed. Israel has been silent on this point.) They cling to life in the most barbaric conditions. And the government is very unclear - almost ambivalent - about where it stands on the matter of hostages. Unbelievable, I know. We finish up with the Houthis and America’s very sudden announcement last night that they would cease attacking the terrorists who have made a mess of commercial shipping lanes in the mid-east. The fact that the Houthis have sworn to continue attacking Israel seems not to have been a huge issue for the U.S. All of which shocked Israeli leadership and broke just after Ya’akov and I finished recording last night. It’s wonderful to have him back and I expect you will find his thoughts as insightful as I did.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

Immediately following the horrors of October 7, John Ondrasik, the singer-songwriter who fronts the band “Five for Fighting”, stepped up for Hamas hostages and, as he says, for moral clarity. His band is best known for his post-9/11 super-hit “Superman”, a beautiful tribute to those who perished on that terrible day in America. When Ondrasik heard that the mother of 24-year-old musician Alon Ohel (held hostage to this day by Hamas) was looking for someone with whom to collaborate musically, he answered the call. He always does. Ondrasik recently worked with Idit Ohel and her son, Ronen—also a musician—to produce a special version of Superman in honor of Alon. had to The trio produced a beautiful rendering of the song—with clips of John playing in Hostage Square, Tel Aviv, as well as his studio in LA. Idit and Ronen play on a yellow piano they installed in Hostage Square for anyone who wishes to make music. Do something. Remember that Alon Ohel is shackled and starved and seriously injured and tortured in a dark, filthy tunnel deep underground. Ondrasik discusses his first trip to Israel one year ago—when he performed at Hostage Square on the night of the Iranian missile attack. Saturday April 13, 2024. We talk about his commitment to the hostages and so many other righteous causes. And, of course, we get into his deep disappointment with the silence, at best, of much of his industry. Yes - Coachella and “Kneecap” do come up. It’s a fascinating discussion, and the episode ends with the full version of the new and revised “Superman.” Alon Ohel. He really is a Superman who must be freed. If you can watch on YouTube, you’ll see some great clips that are relevant to various big moments since October 7, but the sound will do for those of you who prefer the straight audio version. Oh, and do check out the podcast episode we published yesterday of my interview with Alon’s mom, Idit Ohel. State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

WARNING: Graphic and violent visual content.Israel is in a state of collective shock regarding many things in this post-October 7 apocalyptic reality. But perhaps the most incomprehensible is that 19 months after that attack, 59 hostages—alive and dead—remain captive in the most barbaric conditions. Then 22 years old, Alon Ohel had recently returned from his post-army trip to the Far East when he decided to head to the Nova Music Festival on Friday, October 6, 2023. Since then he has languished in a dark, airless tunnel. He is shackled. Cannot move or stand. Suffers from extensive shrapnel injuries and a severe head injury suffered when he was beaten immediately after capture by a Hamas madman. He repeatedly slammed the butt of a machine gun into Alon’s head. In real life, Alon is a gifted musician. He passes time in Hell by playing piano with his fingers on his chest. This, we know from his very close friend, Eli Sharabi, who was released in February. Sharabi tells the heartbreaking story of their final separation in a clip we include in the introduction to this interview with Alon’s mother, Idit Ohel. She is a mother doing everything conceivable to ensure that we do not forget her son and that he is released. Yesterday. Because Alon and all the captives are existing on borrowed time.Idit had no sign of life from Alon from October 7—when she knew he had been captured alive—until the release of Eli Sharabi and other Israeli men who had been held with her son. She somehow pushes through her anguish each day to fight for his life and release. Parents and loved ones of hostages, like Idit, face this unimaginable situation in which their own government seems ambivalent, at best, about making the sacrifices necessary to bring their people home. Some Israelis say the price to be paid to free them is too high. Others believe that the price to be paid by forsaking them is even higher.Idit is so thoughtful, and no holds barred. Tomorrow we bring you the other half of this story—an in-depth interview with “Five for Fighting’s” John Ondrasik, who has been a stalwart supporter of Israel and the hostage families from day 1. An extraordinary beacon of light.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

Part II: Government subverts democracy with its illegal firing of Shin Bet Chief.In this podcast episode, I speak with Amir Tibon, diplomatic correspondent with Ha’aretz newspaper, author, and member of kibbutz Nahal Oz. A survivor of October 7, Amir and his family were rescued that day by his father, retired IDF General Noam Tibon. In his superb book, Gates of Gaza, Amir tells the story of that surreal day, weaving in historical context so that readers develop a much deeper understanding of the colossal failure of October 7. In this podcast he is the yin to Simcha Rothman’s yang, explaining how the opposition to the government sees the firing of Ronen Bar and the extreme consequences for Israeli democracy should any ruling by the Israeli Supreme Court not be followed, as threatened by some government members. Both Rothman and Tibon very powerfully articulate their perspective and lay out for you, the listener, this epic conflict roiling Israeli society today.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

Part I: Can the government fire the head of Shin Bet? You bet! Says Simcha RothmanApologies for the gap in podcast posts, but this coming week your cup will runneth over. Lots of great stuff coming your way. And we begin with this fiery discussion with Religious Zionist MK Simcha Rothman. I spoke to him on Sunday, April 6, just after the government had fired Shin Bet Head Ronen Bar and two days before the appeal of his firing was being heard in the Israeli Supreme Court. Rothman sees this latest clash as yet another manifestation of the leftist deep state undermining the will of the people, as expressed by the democratically elected government. Any criticism of the termination of Ronen Bar is manufactured and disingenuous rage, in his view. Listen and decide. We get into the weeds on the recent revival of judicial reform efforts and the dramatic fallout from the firing of Ronen Bar and also discuss his position regarding the renewed fighting in Gaza and the issue of negotiating for the return of the hostages languishing in Hamas hell. Simcha is fascinating and a very influential political player in Israel. It is important to listen carefully. In a few hours we will post the second part of this podcast—in which I discuss the same issues with Amir Tibon, a writer and journalist who sees things very differently from Simcha Rothman. I thought it important to present both sides. I’d love to hear your feedback.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

Each week, it seems, the stakes get higher. Last week, PM Netanyahu strode into very dangerous territory. In addition to resuming the war with Hamas, his government took the rather bold steps of firing the Internal Security Service Head, Ronen Bar, as well as Attorney General Gali Baharav Miara. Never before has a government fired a Shin Bet boss. And this, in the midst of unprecedented security threats—externally. And then there’s the fact that these acts were brought to the Israeli Supreme Court for an emergency hearing. And the Court held that the government was acting outside the law in firing Ronen Bar in such haste and that it must adhere to threshold legal standards and procedures. That, of course, was met with derision by the PM and several of his senior cabinet colleagues. For them, this was yet another example of the constant subversion engaged in by the entrenched Leftist deep state; a label they slap on anyone or interest that takes issue with their policies and execution of same. Yes. They really said that. Many times. On Sunday. This is standard for the government coalition. So. Here we are. With the government leadership vowing to give the Supreme Court the middle finger. And just do what they deem appropriate. And that has set off alarm in Israel. It’s all too much and too close to the bone. As always. Conricus and I get into the detail, and yes, we are both deeply concerned. As are 63% of Israelis. A recent poll indicated they worried about the future of the country as a democracy.Below is a link to our YouTube version of the podcast. If you appreciate our work, please take a moment to like us on your podcast platform, YouTube, or wherever. And if you would subscribe to YouTube, that would be very helpful.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Jonathan Conricus is a senior fellow with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington D.C.-based think tank. He served in the IDF for 24 years, four of them as spokesman during the intense 11 days of the Guardian of the Walls Operation between Israel and Hamas. Now a reserve officer with the rank of Lt. Col., he is a sought-after speaker internationally and is frequently seen on major television news shows. Jonathan was born in Jerusalem to a Swedish father and an Israeli mother and spent his formative years in Sweden.Jonathan Conricus on X: @jconricus This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe

A video from an ultra-orthodox wedding last week went viral and stoked fresh rage targeting the ultra-orthodox population.In his column in the Jerusalem Post last Friday (see the Podcast Notes for the link), State of Tel Aviv regular, Ya’akov Katz, gave voice to the growing anger that many Israelis feel towards the ultra-orthodox population in Israel. This time, it was triggered by the wedding video, showing a prominent Rabbi leading what looked to be many hundreds, maybe more than a thousand, men in a frenzied song and dance. As they rocked to the beat, they referred to the nation of Israel as a country of heretics and celebrated their continued refusal to serve in the IDF. Well… hell hath no fury like a population that has given its all to the war effort for 17 months now, being scorned and mocked so openly. This same ultra-orthodox population also receives tens of millions of shekels in funding for their educational institutions annually from this nation of heretics. And they use this funding to provide an education that further demonizes the Israelis who serve and work, entrenching this insane cycle of entitlement, dependence, and exploitation. Ya’akov Katz is hopping mad, and rightly so. We discuss the policies, the gutter political reality, and how this very broken paradigm cannot continue. The IDF has a severe shortage of soldiers—in the draft and reserve armies. This Haredi holiday is over. Ya’akov and I get into it. And pull no punches. You can listen to the podcast on the State of Tel Aviv site or, if you prefer, click on YouTube and have the full AV experience. Please like and subscribe. Ring the bell on YouTube. We’re working hard to build our YouTube presence and really appreciate your support.State of Tel Aviv is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Podcast Notes:1) Column by Ya’akov Katz published in The Jerusalem Post, Friday March 14: “The IDF needs soldiers but Israel is paying yeshivas to dodge the draft—opinion”This might have been possible to tolerate before October 7, but definitely not now, at a time when the IDF is missing over 10,000 soldiers to fulfill the missions it already has.2) Column By Ya’akov Katz published in the Jewish Chronicle, Tuesday March 11, 2025: “Dismissing Israel’s Attorney-General is a distraction from government’s failures.”Yaakov Katz is an Israeli-American author and journalist. Between 2016 and 2023, Yaakov was editor-in-chief of The Jerusalem Post where he continues to write a popular weekly column.He is the author of three books: “Shadow Strike – Inside Israel’s Secret Mission to Eliminate Syrian Nuclear Power”, “Weapon Wizards—How Israel Became a High-Tech Military Superpower” and “Israel vs. Iran: The Shadow War.”Prior to taking up the role of editor-in-chief, Yaakov served for two years as a senior policy adviser to Naftali Bennett during his tenure as Israel’s Minister of Economy and Minister of Diaspora Affairs.In 2013, Yaakov was one of 12 international fellows to spend a year at the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University.Originally from Chicago, Yaakov has a law degree from Bar Ilan University. He lives in Jerusalem with his wife Chaya and their four children.Find Yaakov Katz on X @yaakovkatz This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stateoftelaviv.com/subscribe