Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Aaron Goldenberg, actor, comedian, and (hilarious) content creator, joins Lola and Meagan to talk about being gay as a Christian child, what it was like learning Bill Gothard’s IBLP homeschool curriculum as a boy, and how his parents discovered his queerness and sent him to conversion therapy. He talks about Exodus International, a now-disbanded “ex-gay” Christian ministry that taught that you could heal your gayness (until its president apologized to the gay community and said it didn’t work), doubling down on his belief that he could force himself to be straight, and how getting sober finally forced him to confront the truth and accept himself for who he really was.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Sarah Stankorb comes on the show to talk about her book, Disobedient Women, and the deep dive she did on why a series of evangelical women in America began to leave their communities as the internet came into prominence. They discuss patriarchal teachings within cultures like the Quiverfull movement, including stories like Vyckie Garrison’s, who was pressured into having repeated pregnancies that defied her doctors and put her life at risk.They also dive into figures like Bill Gothard, who built the IBLP curricula and created a system of mini-cults across the country, the many stories of sexual abuse that were covered up by various religious organizations, and how online communities helped women share stories, band together, and begin to speak out. Plus: how figures like Doug Wilson helped push Christian nationalism from the fringes into the political mainstream. SOURCES: Disobedient Women Elle Vice Vice Washtington Post Cosmopolitan Marie ClaireSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Guests Erika Lantz and Elin Lantz Lesser join to discuss season 3 of their investigative podcast The Turning, which follows the journey of a young woman named Lindsay, a former member of a Christian group in Minnesota called River Road Fellowship. They talk about the background of the leader Victor Bernard, how Lindsay’s parents moved the family to the cult compound, and what it was like living there—with rapture drills that required the members to never venture far from the compound, a massive bonfire designed to destroy the members’ attachments to their pasts, and other forms of strict control.  They discuss how Lindsay was selected as a teenager to be one of Victor’s ten “maidens,” a group of girls and women living next to his lodge who were subjected to coerced labor and eventually sexual exploitation in what Lindsay only later learned was meant to be a lifelong commitment, the escape plans she was making, and how glimpses of the outside world led her to finally leaving. SOURCES:  The Turning: River RoadSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Jane Borden joins the girls to discuss her book Cults Like Us, a gripping investigation into how cultic thinking is woven into the fabric of American life. Jane delves into the radical roots of early Protestant settlers, how the deep-rooted American mythology of a strong rebel cowboy who can save us from the bad guys makes us more susceptible to demagogues and authoritarians, and why pronatalism is just another form of doomsdayism.They talk about how fear of the end of the world, fear of not being good enough, and fear of “the other” influence us. They discuss everything from the bootstraps myth to mass marketing to self-help empires, and how the promise of salvation has shaped the American psyche more than we like to admit.SOURCES:Jane BordenCults Like Us: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives AmericaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Megan Elizabeth Cox–not to be confused with our Meagan Elizabeth–shares how she first started Gwen Shamblin’s weight loss program as a child, when her mom began listening to the cassette tapes in the 90s. She opens up about what it was like growing up in a family that was fixated on weight loss, how it felt meeting Shamblin, the high-haired woman behind the voice, and how the program evolved into the Remnant Fellowship, a full-fledged church centered around skinniness as righteousness.Megan tells the girls about the level of control the church had over her eating and even her thoughts, with Bible study sessions that required the members to weigh themselves, how she drifted in and out of the church during dark times in her life, and what made her finally realize she needed to leave the group for good.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Claire Hoffman joins us again, this time to discuss her new book Sister, Sinner: the unbelievable true story of Aimee Semple McPherson, a glamorous Pentecostal preacher who pioneered entertainment evangelism. McPherson was so famous in the 1920s she could have been a Kardashian.Claire talks about how the early televangelist used theatrics and mass media to build an empire around her preaching–only to mysteriously disappear in 1926, leading to one of the most notorious court cases of the time. The girls unpack early 20th century fame, faith, scandal, and the dangers of worshipping cultural icons.SOURCES:Sister, SinnerSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part 1 of our interview with journalist Claire Hoffman, Claire shares what it was like growing up in an Iowa trailer park community built around the Transcendental Meditation (or TM) movement and its charismatic leader, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi–whose followers included The Beatles. Claire shares what the daily routine was like in the TM community, how it felt believing every adult she knew could levitate, and the powerful mystique of Maharishi.Plus, she tells how the fall of the Berlin Wall and her subscription to Cosmopolitan magazine helped lead to her eventual awakening about the guru being a mere mortal, and the book she wrote about that experience, Greetings From Utopia Park.SOURCES:Greetings From Utopia ParkSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Attorney Carol Merchasin didn’t set out to expose cults, but after investigating allegations about a high-control Buddhist organization and discovering that the abuse had run more rampant than she’d imagined, she became a lawyer and focused her practice on getting justice for survivors of cults and abusive groups. Carol discusses the legal ins and outs of suing cults and spiritual leaders, where American law stands in recognizing coercion and human trafficking, and why the differences in ideologies between high-control groups really don’t matter. Plus: the patterns and red flags she’s learned to spot, why spiritual language is often used to disguise harm, and what to do if you get sued by your group for speaking out.   SOURCES: BITE MODEL of Authoritarian Control  Heartwood Center McAllister Olivarius Law For pro bono legal help, look up your state bar association for a directory of pro bono attorneys.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Artist and writer Akina Cox returns to share more about her experience growing up in the Unification Church (also known as the Moonies), its physical punishment rituals, and where the church stands now. The girls then transition from the topic of her particular cult to a discussion on the cult-like patterns of the current American political landscape, and how to approach political disagreements with loved ones. Akina also reflects on her article for Salon, where she explores how the Trump administration employs many of the same tactics used by Reverend Moon, and how high-control groups tend to choose a group to scapegoat for their problems. They discuss the demonization of immigrants and trans folks, the realities of ICE kidnappings, and how the failures of political leadership effectively addressing income inequality created an opening for demagogues to thrive.   SOURCES: Akina Cox Salon How to Talk to Your Republican Uncle The Atlantic   ORGANIZATIONS FOR OUTREACH AND RESISTANCE: Ktown For All CHIRLA Unión del Barrio LA Tenants Union National Day Laborer Organizing Network (NDLON)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Akina Cox, an artist and writer who grew up in the Unification Church, shares her intriguing journey from devoted follower to critical thinker. She vividly recounts her experience of participating in mass weddings and contrasts the lavish lifestyle of Reverend Moon with the unpaid labor of members. As she delves into her childhood, she reflects on the emotional complexities of cult life and its ties to contemporary political issues. Akina also sheds light on how her college years sparked her doubts about the church's teachings and practices.