Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Sarma Melngailis, author and former owner of the acclaimed vegan restaurant Pure Food and Wine, shares her captivating journey from finance to culinary fame. She recounts her fateful meeting with the enigmatic Mr. Fox on Twitter, revealing the initial red flags she overlooked. Sarma delves into the subtle manipulation tactics he employed, from financial demands disguised as emergencies to the psychological grip of constant communication. Listeners will be intrigued by her experiences of vulnerability, intuition, and the staggering toll it all took on her life.

Arabelle Sicardi, a writer and image theorist, dives into the intricate web of the beauty industry and its psychological impacts. She explores why Utah sees high rates of plastic surgery within Mormon communities and discusses how beauty ideals create cult-like dynamics, influencing women to align with unrealistic standards. The conversation touches on luxury's role in isolating us from global exploitation and the troubling normalization of beauty procedures among Gen Z. Ultimately, Arabelle champions the idea that true beauty lies in fostering genuine human connections over superficial aesthetics.

Anthony Cesar Duncan, an artist and mental health advocate, shares his harrowing journey through a psychotic episode triggered by extended interactions with ChatGPT. He reveals how what began as casual use escalated into obsession, isolating him from loved ones as AI amplified his delusions. Anthony discusses the blurred lines between reality and AI suggestions, his experiences with intervention, and the importance of navigating mental health crises in the digital age. Now in recovery, he emphasizes building boundaries around AI use.

Aaron Goldenberg, actor, comedian, and (hilarious) content creator, joins Lola and Meagan to talk about being gay as a Christian child, what it was like learning Bill Gothard’s IBLP homeschool curriculum as a boy, and how his parents discovered his queerness and sent him to conversion therapy. He talks about Exodus International, a now-disbanded “ex-gay” Christian ministry that taught that you could heal your gayness (until its president apologized to the gay community and said it didn’t work), doubling down on his belief that he could force himself to be straight, and how getting sober finally forced him to confront the truth and accept himself for who he really was.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Sarah Stankorb comes on the show to talk about her book, Disobedient Women, and the deep dive she did on why a series of evangelical women in America began to leave their communities as the internet came into prominence. They discuss patriarchal teachings within cultures like the Quiverfull movement, including stories like Vyckie Garrison’s, who was pressured into having repeated pregnancies that defied her doctors and put her life at risk.They also dive into figures like Bill Gothard, who built the IBLP curricula and created a system of mini-cults across the country, the many stories of sexual abuse that were covered up by various religious organizations, and how online communities helped women share stories, band together, and begin to speak out. Plus: how figures like Doug Wilson helped push Christian nationalism from the fringes into the political mainstream. SOURCES: Disobedient Women Elle Vice Vice Washtington Post Cosmopolitan Marie ClaireSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Guests Erika Lantz and Elin Lantz Lesser join to discuss season 3 of their investigative podcast The Turning, which follows the journey of a young woman named Lindsay, a former member of a Christian group in Minnesota called River Road Fellowship. They talk about the background of the leader Victor Bernard, how Lindsay’s parents moved the family to the cult compound, and what it was like living there—with rapture drills that required the members to never venture far from the compound, a massive bonfire designed to destroy the members’ attachments to their pasts, and other forms of strict control.  They discuss how Lindsay was selected as a teenager to be one of Victor’s ten “maidens,” a group of girls and women living next to his lodge who were subjected to coerced labor and eventually sexual exploitation in what Lindsay only later learned was meant to be a lifelong commitment, the escape plans she was making, and how glimpses of the outside world led her to finally leaving. SOURCES:  The Turning: River RoadSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Jane Borden joins the girls to discuss her book Cults Like Us, a gripping investigation into how cultic thinking is woven into the fabric of American life. Jane delves into the radical roots of early Protestant settlers, how the deep-rooted American mythology of a strong rebel cowboy who can save us from the bad guys makes us more susceptible to demagogues and authoritarians, and why pronatalism is just another form of doomsdayism.They talk about how fear of the end of the world, fear of not being good enough, and fear of “the other” influence us. They discuss everything from the bootstraps myth to mass marketing to self-help empires, and how the promise of salvation has shaped the American psyche more than we like to admit.SOURCES:Jane BordenCults Like Us: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives AmericaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Megan Elizabeth Cox–not to be confused with our Meagan Elizabeth–shares how she first started Gwen Shamblin’s weight loss program as a child, when her mom began listening to the cassette tapes in the 90s. She opens up about what it was like growing up in a family that was fixated on weight loss, how it felt meeting Shamblin, the high-haired woman behind the voice, and how the program evolved into the Remnant Fellowship, a full-fledged church centered around skinniness as righteousness.Megan tells the girls about the level of control the church had over her eating and even her thoughts, with Bible study sessions that required the members to weigh themselves, how she drifted in and out of the church during dark times in her life, and what made her finally realize she needed to leave the group for good.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Journalist Claire Hoffman joins us again, this time to discuss her new book Sister, Sinner: the unbelievable true story of Aimee Semple McPherson, a glamorous Pentecostal preacher who pioneered entertainment evangelism. McPherson was so famous in the 1920s she could have been a Kardashian.Claire talks about how the early televangelist used theatrics and mass media to build an empire around her preaching–only to mysteriously disappear in 1926, leading to one of the most notorious court cases of the time. The girls unpack early 20th century fame, faith, scandal, and the dangers of worshipping cultural icons.SOURCES:Sister, SinnerSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Part 1 of our interview with journalist Claire Hoffman, Claire shares what it was like growing up in an Iowa trailer park community built around the Transcendental Meditation (or TM) movement and its charismatic leader, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi–whose followers included The Beatles. Claire shares what the daily routine was like in the TM community, how it felt believing every adult she knew could levitate, and the powerful mystique of Maharishi.Plus, she tells how the fall of the Berlin Wall and her subscription to Cosmopolitan magazine helped lead to her eventual awakening about the guru being a mere mortal, and the book she wrote about that experience, Greetings From Utopia Park.SOURCES:Greetings From Utopia ParkSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.