Deviate

“I learned so quickly that children change everything about travel.” –Bruce Kirkby In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Bruce discuss how Bruce got his travel-writing career started, and why he ended up traveling to a Tibetan Indian monastery with his young family (3:00); what it is like to travel overland with young kids in tow, from Canada to India, and how having a child on the autism spectrum affects the experience (12:30); what it was like to travel to Asia with a sixteen-person TV crew in tow (23:00); what it was like to life a low-tech offline life and teach English in a remote (yet changing) mountain region in Tibetan India (27:30); how Bruce and his family navigated the tension between tradition and modernity in Zanskar, and how being there for three months differs from a shorter visit (38:00). Bruce Kirkby (@bruce_kirkby) is a Canadian adventurer, photographer, and writer. His newest book, discussed in this episode, is Blue Sky Kingdom: An Epic Family Journey to the Heart of the Himalaya. More about Bruce and his career can be found at: http://brucekirkby.com/. Notable Links: Mergui Archipelago (group of islands in southern Myanmar) Family Ties (1980s TV show starring Michael J. Fox) Kate Harris (Canadian travel writer) Kate Harris on travel (Deviate podcast episode) Zanskar (mountain region in Tibetan India) Ladakh (union territory in India’s Kashmir region) Autism spectrum disorder (neurodevelopmental condition) Big Crazy Family Adventure (Travel Channel show) Long Way Round (TV travel doc featuring Ewan McGregor) Monkey mind (Buddhist concept) 14th Dalai Lama (Tibetan spiritual leader) Rumspringa (Amish rite of passage) Leh (capital city of Ladakh) Being a better bad tourist (Deviate episode) This episode is sponsored by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “Three Simple Lines & The Color of Wind,” a hybrid writing-photography webinar featuring Natalie Goldberg and Eddie Soloway (January 27-29, 2021); and “Across the World and Deep Within,” a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021). The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Riding trains offered a great chance to chat with people we’d never cross paths with in our lives normally.” –Monisha Rajesh In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Monisha discuss how her interest in train-travel dates back to a series of journeys she took around India (2:00); her more recent experience of taking the Trans-Mongolian train across Russia and into Asia (14:00); what it was like to travel by train in North Korea, China, and Southeast Asia, and how they differ from European trains (28:00); what it was like to take trains across Canada and the United States, and which global trains Monisha likes best (45:00). Monisha Rajesh (@monisha_rajesh) is a travel journalist, and the author of Around India in 80 Trains, and Around the World in 80 Trains. She currently lives in London with her husband and two daughters. Notable Links: Indrail Pass (Indian rail-pass for foreign nationals) Saint Basil’s Cathedral (church in Moscow’s Red Square) Eurail Pass (rail-pass covering 33 European countries) Trans–Mongolian Railway (long-haul train route) Circum-Baikal Railway (railway in Russia’s Irkutsk region) War and Peace (novel by Leo Tolstoy) Game of Thrones (fantasy TV series) Korean State Railway (train system in North Korea) Southwest Chief (American Amtrak route) German Baptist Brethren (Anabaptist group) Qinghai–Tibet railway (Asian train route) Skeena (Canadian passenger train service) Mandovi Express (train route in India) Flight shaming (environmental social movement) Sunset Limited (American Amtrak route) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The best experiences in life can be had for the price of showing up.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki take a road-trip to Colorado (with Salvie the cat yowling in his pet-carrier) and discuss how Rolf’s 2010 essay “5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home” can apply to home-life during a time of pandemic, including the notion that “Time = Wealth” (5:00); the importance of knowing how to “Be Where You Are” (8:30); the advantages of knowing when to “Slow Down” (20:00); the merit that comes in knowing how to “Keep it Simple” (25:00); and how life is more dynamic when you “Don’t Set Limits” (39:00). Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center. For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website. Notable Links: “5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home,” by Rolf Potts (essay) “A personal history of nostalgia” (Deviate episode) Late Night with Seth Meyers (news satire talk show) Rocky Mountain National Park (American wilderness area) Geographers’ A–Z (British street atlas) Thomas Guide (Los Angeles street atlas) Marie Kondo (Japanese organizing consultant and author) No Baggage Challenge (Rolf’s 2010 minimalist journey) Hoarders (reality TV series) Bumble (dating app) Atomium (landmark building in Brussels) Kanopolis State Park (hiking area in Kansas) Marquette Pioneer Trail (hiking area in Kansas) Lindsborg (Swedish-settler town in Kansas) Sterling (small-college town in Kansas) Coronado Heights (sandstone overlook in central Kansas) Richard Rohr (American spiritual writer) This Week in Flips (producer Justin Glow’s YouTube channel) This episode of Deviate alludes to Rolf’s experiences with Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“A lot of people seek out spiritual travel-sites without any ties to a specific religion: When they’re in Israel and they’ll go to the Western Wall and feel so spiritual there; a month later they’re in Thailand and they’ll go to a Buddhist retreat. They just glom on for a minute and play pretend.” – Ari Shaffir Note: Rolf is giving away copies of books by Deviate guests (like Paul Theroux, Kate Harris, and Chris Guillebeau) for people who buy Tortuga backpacks online, or who buy copies of Vagabonding at local independent bookstores. Just email a receipt (and, if applicable, a photo of yourself at your local bookseller) to deviate@rolfpotts.com, and Rolf will share a list of available books and mail a free copy of your choosing to any USA address. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s pilgrimage across Israel 20 years ago and why he took it, and Ari’s experiences there in a yeshiva and on a kibbutz as a young man (4:45); what it was like to walk in the agricultural north of Israel near the Sea of Galilee, and navigating the Jewish versus Arab cultural aspects of the country (15:00); longing as a part of travel, and what it was like to go to Israel as young man and see women in swimsuits after traveling in conservative Arab lands (29:00); the proliferation of Christian sites throughout Israel, getting picked up by Israeli girls while hitchhiking and going to Tel Aviv (36:00); the difference between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and what it was like to visit sites like the Wailing Wall and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (51:00); Rolf’s experience of canvassing for a pub in Jerusalem as an act of self-abnegation, and fasting on the Mount of the Temptation near Jericho (1:13:00); and the tendency of some travelers to superficially embrace the local spiritual tradition in places like Israel and India and Thailand, and how travel is in itself a spiritual act (1:26:30). Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. Notable Links: Galilee (region in northern Israel) Orthodox Judaism (traditionalist Jewish sect) Yeshiva (Jewish educational institution) 613 commandments (tradition from the Torah) Messianic Judaism (sect that combines Christianity with Judaism) Oslo Accords (1993 Israel/PLO agreement) Yardenit (baptismal site on the Jordan River) Saint Helena (influential 4th century Christian pilgrim) Megiddo (ancient city site in Israel) South Lebanon Army (Christian militia) Jerusalem Syndrome (mental disorder) Wailing Wall (site in the Old City of Jerusalem) Al-Aqsa Mosque (Muslim site in Old City of Jerusalem) Via Dolorosa (processional route in the Old City of Jerusalem) Souvenir, by Rolf Potts (book) Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Christian holy site) Tom Rhodes (American comedian) Zion Square (public square in Jerusalem) Jericho (Palestinian city in the West Bank) Mount of Temptation (Christian pilgrimage site) Pai (town in northern Thailand) Yetzer hara (in Hebrew, the inclination to do evil) Karen people (ethnic group in Myanmar) Rohingya people (ethnic group in Myanmar) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Earnest, hard-won failure can teach you as much as anything.” – Rolf Potts Note: For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeremy discuss breaking into travel writing and learning through failure (4:00); what defines travel memoir, and how it’s different from other kinds of travel writing (11:00); the role of research in travel writing, and the balance between personal expression and reportage (17:00); the travel writing industry, and what topics are covered in Rolf’s Paris Writing Workshop (25:00); and how “flaneuring” in place like Paris can lend a new perspective on place (37:00). Jeremy Bassetti (@jeremybassetti) is a writer, editor, educator, and host of the Travel Writing World Podcast. His website, travelwritingworld.com, features interviews with travel writers, book reviews, author profiles, and resources for travel writers and their readers. For more about Jeremy, check out jeremybassetti.com. Notable Links: Storming the Beach, by Rolf Potts (essay) Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) The Last Whalers, by Doug Bock Clark (book) Deviate interview with Doug Bock Clark (podcast) Eat, Pray, Love, by Elizabeth Gilbert (book) On the Plain of Snakes, by Paul Theroux (book) Deviate interview with Paul Theroux (podcast) Braver Than You Think, by Maggie Downs (book) Deviate interview with Maggie Downs (podcast) Writing Away, by Lavinia Spalding (book) Deviate interview with Lavinia Spalding (podcast) Drunk in China, by Derek Sandhaus (book) Deviate interview with Derek Sandhaus (podcast) The Painter of Modern Life, by Charles Baudelaire (essay collection) Psychogeography (urban exploration strategy) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets.

This episode of Deviate explores the benefits of minimalism (3:00); changing ones life philosophy and getting rid of bad habits (11:00); pragmatic approaches to personal finance and avoiding debt (20:00); living off the grid and life tips (29:00); and finding a life purpose (42:00). Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The perception that most Americans have about the original Thanksgiving is very much a Hallmark-card stereotype, where the native people and the colonists came together and broke bread and sang ‘Kumbaya.’ In truth, there was a great deal of trepidation on both sides.” – Paula Peters Full video episode In this episode of Deviate, Rolf presents an audio remix of American Pilgrim, the Thanksgiving Special he hosted for the Travel Channel in 2008. The episode begins with some contextual history of the Pilgrims’ voyage from England, and a visit to chef Bryant Alden’s kitchen in New Hampshire to discuss what food the Pilgrims ate (5:00); next, Rolf sails out of Plymouth Harbor with John Brewster, and learns about the sea conditions the Pilgrims faced coming over from England (12:00); at Mayflower Brewing Company in Plymouth, brewer Drew Brosseau talks about the importance of beer to the Pilgrims (17:00); elsewhere in Plymouth, Reverend Bill Fillebrown talks about how religious convictions shaped the lives of the Pilgrims (21:00); at Plimoth Plantation, indigenous descendants talk about relations between with Pilgrims and the native people in the area (27:30); in rural Connecticut, Rolf talks with farmer Courtland Kinnie about the Pilgrims’ agricultural practices (30:40); finally, at Fort Hood in Texas, U.S. Army Major Chuck Assadourian talks about the Pilgrims’ approach to defense and security (34:00). As the holiday season gets underway, a reminder that Rolf’s travel books make great Christmas stocking-stuffers. Vagabonding is a perennial gift favorite for travelers, though please also consider Rolf’s travel-essay collection Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, his travel-history book Souvenir, or his comic-book adaptation of an ancient Egyptian travel tale, The Misadventures of Wenamun. Fort Hood deleted scene Notable Links: Pilgrims (English settlers in North America) Plimoth Plantation (living history museum) Mayflower II (replica of 17th century ship) Wampanoag (Native American people) John Alden (Mayflower Pilgrim) Squanto (Patuxet tribal liaison) Pottage (thick stew) Edward Winslow (Mayflower Pilgrim) William Brewster (Mayflower Pilgrim) Mayflower Compact (governing document) Barque Eagle (U.S. Coast Guard training cutter) Mayflower Brewing Company (craft-beer business) Cooper (profession) William Bradford (Governor of the Plymouth Colony) Peregrine White (baby boy born on the Mayflower) Puritans (English Protestant sect in the 17th century) Pilgrim Progress (church-procession reenactment) Patuxet (Wampanoag village affected by plague) Wampum (traditional Native shell beads) Richard Warren (Mayflower Pilgrim) Fort Hood (U.S. Army post) Isaac Allerton (Mayflower Pilgrim) Myles Standish (military adviser for Plymouth Colony) Wampanoag deleted scene This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Savoring is attending to the moment.” – Stephanie Rosenbloom In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stephanie discuss solitude versus loneliness (3:00); the joy of eating alone (14:00); the art of being a flaneur and savoring experiences (22:00); the joy of going to museums alone (32:00); the relationship between anticipation, experience, and retrospection (43:00); and exercising your travel muscles as part of everyday life (54:00). Stephanie Rosenbloom (@stephronyt) is a travel writer for The New York Times, where she has been a reporter for more than a decade, and the author of the book, Alone Time: Four Seasons, Four Cities, and the Pleasures of Solitude. For more about Stephanie, check out http://www.stephanierosenbloom.com.  Notable Links: Abraham Maslow (psychologist) AllTrails (website) Bella DePaulo (Professor of Psychology) Thích Nhất Hạnh (Vietnamese Buddhist monk) Savoring: A New Model of Positive Experience, by Fred Bryant (book) The Lonely Guy (Steve Martin movie) Charles Baudelaire (poet) Sandro Botticelli (painter) The Birth of Venus (painting by Botticelli) Elizabeth Dunn (psychologist) On Photography, by Susan Sontag (collection of essays) Marcel Duchamp (painter / sculptor) LiveTrekker (app) A Philosophy of Walking, by Fredric Gros (book) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Getting in touch with reality is literally the essence of spiritual life.” – Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Far Out Podcast, by Julie-Roxane and Alasdair. They discuss “Time Wealth,” and vagabonding as a philosophy for life (3:00); sifting through mediated information, versus getting local information on the road, and “reality” as the essence of spirituality (13:00); appreciation versus achievement, embracing the possibility of travel, and how you get smarter about travel the more you travel (24:00); seeking to have an “option-rich” life, the freedom that comes with not having preconceptions about where to go or what to do, and the joy of being surprised on the road (46:00); travel as a way to find out what you value and love in life (58:00); and the importance of slowing down, on the road and in life (1:03:00). Julie-Roxane and Alasdair (Instagram: @thefaroutcouple) are travelers, entrepreneurs, guides, coaches, and co-hosts of the Far Out Podcast, where they chronicle their adventures in unconventional living. For more about Julie-Roxane and Alasdair, check out https://www.jrkrikorian.com and https://alasdairplambeck.com. Notable Links: John Muir (naturalist) Stoicism (school of Hellenistic philosophy) Platonic idealism (philosophical doctrine of ideas) Rolf on the Tim Ferris Show (podcast episode) The Snow Leopard, by Peter Matthiessen (book) Henry David Thoreau (philosopher) Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (poetry collection) Situationist International (French avant-garde movement) Dérive (experimental urban behavior) The best hostel ever, in Cairo (Deviate episode) Into the Wild, by Jon Krakauer (book) Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr (book) Antonio Machado (Spanish poet) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert Pirsig (book) Paris Writing Workshops (Rolf’s summer writing classes) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“That sort of fearlessness, and the assumption that the world is a good place – I like holding onto that idea to this day.” – Pam Mandel In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pam discuss the good that can come out of bad travel, and how Pam became a person who spent a lot of her teen years outside of the US (2:30); how Pam came to travel to Israel and work on a kibbutz as a teenager after high school (9:00); the magic of traveling while young, and Pam’s experiences of hitchhiking across Europe (21:00); Onward travel to Egypt, Pakistan, and India, and how the assumptions of travel as a woman in certain countries are different from those of young men travelers (30:00); what it was like to write a book about experiences that happened 40 years ago (45:00); and how Pam now sees her coming-of-age travels as a complicated mix of good and bad experiences (51:30). Pam Mandel (@nerdseyeview) is a travel writer and co-founder of The Statesider, a travel newsletter. Her book The Same River Twice, comes out this November. For more about Pam, check out her Nerd’s Eye View blog.  Notable Links: Hippie trail (1960s and 1970s travel subculture) Kibbutz (collective community) Tony Wheeler (founder of Lonely Planet) Squatting (practice of living in abandoned buildings) Child marriage in Pakistan Fields & Stations (magazine) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.