Cold War Conversations

Adrian Jones was commissioned as a lieutenant in the Irish Army in 1983. As a 23 year old officer he served in the United Nations Peacekeeping Force UNIFIL in Southern Lebanon from 1987 to 1988.The Irish battalion consisted of 580 personnel which were rotated every six months, plus almost 100 others in UNIFIL headquarters and the Force Mobile Reserve. In all, 30,000 Irish soldiers served in Lebanon over 23 years.The Irish troops in Lebanon were initially intended to supervise the withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces from the area after an invasion in 1978 and to prevent fighting between the Palestine Liberation Organization forces and Israel, however beginning in 1985, the Israeli army scaled back its numbers, remaining only in support of the South Lebanon Army in Southern Lebanon which was fighting the newly established Iranian proxy spinoff of the Amal movement – the Arab Shia Hezbollah.We hear about Irish officer training, the position of Irish neutrality during the Cold War. Among many subjects Adrian also talks about the challenges of his peacekeeping mission, rules of engagement and the deaths of Irish peacekeepers. Extra info, book details and videos are here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode176/Now I need help to continue to track down these unknown stories of the Cold war and ensure they are preserved before they are lost. If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to pledge a small monthly amount per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you helping preserve Cold War history.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/James Chilcott is your host today and I am delighted to welcome Adrian Jones to our Cold War conversation…Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and early life of Adrian Jones2:08 SListener Donations Request7:34 Discussion on the role of the Irish military in global peacekeeping16:23 Irish neutrality during the Cold War24:55 Adrian's deployment to Lebanon: preparations and initial impressions30:12 The mission in South Lebanon and changing political landscape50:24 Reflections on the Lebanon tour and challenges of peacekeeping1:00:00 Navigating communication and politics in a pre-cell phone era1:04:00 Looking back at the time in Lebanon and closureChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In August 1960, a Soviet colonel called Oleg Penkovsky contacted the West to offer to work as a 'soldier warrior for the free world. MI6 and the CIA ran Penkovsky jointly, in an operation that ran through the showdown over Berlin and the Cuban Missile Crisis.He provided crucial intelligence, including photographs of rocket manuals that helped Kennedy end the Cuba crisis and avert a war. Codenamed HERO, Penkovsky is widely seen as the most important spy of the Cold War, and the CIA-MI6 operation, run as the world stood on the brink of nuclear destruction.We speak with Jeremy Duns, the author of Dead Drop also called Codename Hero in the US which investigates exactly how did the Russians detect Penkovsky, and why did they let him continue his contact with his handlers for months afterwards? Described as thrilling, evocative and hugely controversial, the book blows apart the myths surrounding one of the Cold War's greatest spy operations.Extra info, book details and videos are here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode175/If you are enjoying the podcast please leave a written review in Apple podcasts or share us on social media. By telling your friends you can really help us grow the number of listeners.Now I need help to continue to track down these unknown stories of the Cold war and ensure they are preserved before they are lost. If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to pledge a small monthly amount per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you helping preserve Cold War history.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/I am delighted to welcome Jeremy Duns to our Cold War conversation…If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and guest - Jeremy Duns2:33 The story of Soviet Colonel Oleg Penkovsky and his disillusionment with the Soviet Union10:17 The intelligence Penkovsky provided to MI6 and CIA and its impact23:30 The lack of satellite cover over the Soviet Union and Penkovsky's methods of passing information30:06 The complications and aftermath of Penkovsky's discovery and his influence on the Cuban Missile Crisis36:00 Arrests of Penkovsky and Greville Wynn, Wynn's trial and sentence42:31 The fate of Oleg Penkovsky and how he was betrayed45:32 DCode Name Hero: books on Oleg Pankovsky46:07 Sponsor: Acknowledging patron support46:58 End of episode and thanks to listenersChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

70 years ago today would have been the middle of a desperate battle by outnumbered British forces at the battle of the Imjin River in Korea. The Korean War was among the most destructive conflicts of the modern era, and one of the few times when the Cold War turned hot. There were approximately 3 million war fatalities and a larger proportional civilian death toll than World War II or the Vietnam War.Tommy Clough is one of the last survivors of the battle of the Imjin River and was just 19 when the Gloucestershire Regiment were cut off from their brigade by more than 10,000 Chinese troops in 1951. Outnumbered and surrounded, they dug in on a hilltop for three days, repelling attack after attack until their ammunition ran out. The battle of the Imjin River was one of the most famous of the Korean War.We hear in detail Tommy’s experiences in the days up to the battle, as well as the desperate fighting to hold off the Chinese army as food, water and ammunition ran out. Inevitably the Gloucestershire Regiment was forced to surrender and Tommy's story continues, with the hardship and privation of the 500 miles march to their prisoner of war camp. Following an escape attempt, Tommy is held and handcuffed for 6 weeks in solitary confinement including a lengthy period held in a small cage. It’s an incredible story of fortitude and resilience under the most extreme circumstances and I am so humbled and honoured to be able to share this story with you. I’d like to thank The History of War magazine for putting me in contact with the Soldiers of Gloucestershire Museum and subsequently Tommy.Extra info and videos are here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode174/If you are enjoying the podcast please leave a written review in Apple podcasts or share us on social media. By telling your friends you can really help us grow the number of listeners.Now I need help to continue to track down these unknown stories of the Cold war and ensure they are preserved before they are lost. If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you helping preserve Cold War history.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/I am delighted to welcome Tommy Clough to our Cold War conversation…If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciatedSupport the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and Tommy Clough's first encounter with the enemy2:39 Sponsor: History of War Magazine and request for financial support2:49 Tommy Clough's enlistment and journey to Korea13:45 Encounters and incidents during the advance towards the Yellow River22:30 Observations at the Imjin River and the ensuing Chinese attack30:18 The desperate measures and the moment of capture47:41 Arrival at the POW camp and survival strategies57:12 Escape attempts, interrogation, and hard labor sentence1:05:38 The end of the war and Tommy's journey back home1:11:07 Transition to civilian life and post-war experiences1:18:50 Tommy's silence about the war and eventual return to Korea1:20:25 Closing remarks and invitation to join the Facebook discussionChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Matisonn is a South African journalist who grew up in the suburbs in Johannesburg. In 1979 he was sentenced to jail for refusing to reveal his news sources.Matisonn describes life as a journalist in apartheid South Africa as well as his meetings with some of the key South African personalities of that period. He met with several South African Prime leaders including John Vorster, PW Botha and FW de Klerk who eventually oversaw the end of white majority rule. Also included are details of several meetings Matisonn had with Nelson Mandela the first black President of South Africa.We also hear about Soviet training for African National Congress leaders and the South African nuclear weapons programme.Now I could really use your support to help me to continue to produce these podcasts. A monthly donation of $4, £3 or €3 via Patreon will really and you will get the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.Special thanks to several listeners who left 5 star reviews including Louth23, monster ceilidh band and Mortificating.Peter Ryan is our interviewer today and I am delighted to welcome John Matisonn to our Cold War conversation…There’s further information on this episode in our episode notes which can be found here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode173/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction of guest John Matisonn2:02 Sponsor: Request for listener support and acknowledgments2:34 Matisonn's experience as a journalist in Apartheid South Africa7:00 Interplay of Cold War dynamics in South Africa10:03 Nelson Mandela's relationship with Communism and the Soviet Union14:27 ANC leaders' training in Soviet Union and GDR21:02 South African collaboration with Western intelligence services26:26 The concept of "linkage" in the Cold War and Cuba's involvement29:38 South Africa's nuclear program35:27 Reagan administration's approach towards South Africa42:48 Matisonn's personal interactions with Apartheid era leaders46:06 Introduction to John Matisonn's book "God, Spies and Lies"48:25 Sponsor: Acknowledging Patrons and Sponsors49:11 Invitation to Join Facebook Discussion GroupChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

9.07 a.m., April 12, 1961. A top-secret rocket site in the USSR. A young Russian sits inside a tiny capsule on top of the Soviet Union’s most powerful intercontinental ballistic missile and blasts into the skies. His name is Yuri Gagarin. And he is about to make history. We speak with Stephen Walker author of “Beyond” a new book that tells the thrilling story behind that epic flight on its sixtieth anniversary. Drawing on extensive original research and the vivid testimonies of eyewitnesses, many of whom have never spoken before, Stephen unpacks secrets that were hidden for decades and takes you into the drama of one of humanity's greatest adventures. Now I thought I knew Gagarins’s story, but discovered so much more after reading this book. The episode just scratches the surface and there is so much more in the book itself, Stephen and I could have talked for hours. This podcast wouldn’t exist without the generous support of our Patreons If you are enjoying the podcast, and want to continue to hear it please support me via a small (or large) monthly donation. Plus, you will get the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show. I am delighted to welcome Stephen Walker to our Cold War conversation…There are a book giveaway and further information on this episode in our episode notes here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode172/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction4:19 The significance of the first man in space and misconceptions10:14 The Soviet Union’s involvement in the space race18:37 The KGB's insistence on having a bomb onboard the spacecraft27:58 The secrecy of the Soviet space program33:44 The Myth of the Lost cosmonauts38:22 Gagarin's landing and the unravelling of decades-long lies52:20 Gagarin's demeanour during the launch and the aftermath of the landing1:02:01 The decision to leapfrog the Soviets in the space race and Gagarin's life post-space mission1:10:21 Closing and acknowledgements of patronsChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In April 1966, a state-of-the-art Soviet aircraft, the Yak-28P crashed into the British Sector of West Berlin. This intelligence gift to the Allied forces resulted in a tense confrontation with the Soviet forcesWe speak with historian Bernd von Kostka of the Allied Museum in Berlin-Dahlem who has researched this story for his upcoming book Capital of Spies: Intelligence agencies in Berlin during the Cold War which he co-authors with Sven Felix Kellerhoff.The book will be published in October in the US and in December 2021 in GB.This podcast wouldn’t exist without the generous support of our Patreons so if you are enjoying the podcast, you can show your support via a small (or large) monthly donation. Plus you will get the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us and sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I’d like to thanks Beam2, Woodhead4780 and Tree Fella. for their 5-star reviews on Apple Podcasts I am delighted to welcome Bernd to our Cold War conversation…There’s further information on this episode in our show notes which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode171If you can’t wait for next week’s episode, visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated – goodbye.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and crash of Soviet interceptor in British sector of Berlin0:49 Interview with historian Bernd von Kostka and discussion on his upcoming book2:34 Overview of Cold War Berlin in 1966 and frequent overflights by Soviet aircraft7:06 Examination of the Yak 28p crash site and its significance14:44 Analysis of the Soviet Union's limited control in West Berlin and the tense standoff at the crash site18:06 Debunking of common rumors surrounding the crash and discussion on the aftermath20:23 British attempts to extract secrets from the crashed aircraft and discovery of the radar equipment23:22 Negotiations and handover of the wreckage to the Soviets30:19 Exploring the impact and memory of the incident in Germany and the Soviet Union37:20 Posthumous honors for the pilots and introduction to the book "Capital of Spies"41:06 Acknowledgement of the patrons and invitation to join the Facebook discussion group41:50 Closing remarksChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We speak with Chris Summers who as a 22 year old was sent by his employers to East Germany in a Ford Escort to install British factory machinery. He provides us with interesting insights into life in the provinces of the GDR. Long term listeners of the podcast will recognise one of Chris’s colleagues was Tim, husband of Antje who was our guest in episode 82 “A Cold War Romance” available here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode82/Chris was also sent to Poland, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia where he tells what he saw and experienced in the latter half of the 1980s.   If you can spare it I’m asking listeners to contribute at least $3 USD per month to help keep us on the air (larger amounts are welcome too) plus you can get a sought after CWC coaster as a monthly financial supporter of the podcast and you bask in the warm glow of knowing you helping preserve Cold War history.Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/I am delighted to welcome Chris Summers to our Cold War conversation…There’s further information on this episode in our show notes, which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode170/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. It is really appreciated Radio GDRIf you are interested in East Germany we can highly recommend our friends over at Radio GDR.Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and toast anecdote0:50 Interview with Chris Summers about his work with Detexamat in East Germany15:39 Experiencing nightlife in East Germany20:26 Independent tourism during the Cold War26:31 Installing equipment and training locals in East Germany38:59 Chris Summers' work experiences in Poland and Russia45:57 Experiences in Soviet factories and Georgian culture49:09 Unique experiences and restrictions in the Soviet Union54:45 Chris Summers' work in Czechoslovakia56:33 Tim's wedding and Ancher's arrival in the UK59:36 Wrap up and donation informationChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Soviet Tours is a Berlin-based tour operator focussed on off-the-beaten-path destinations across the globe. Their core area, as the name suggests, lies mainly in and around the former USSR. From the mystic forests of Central Siberia to the austere peaks of the High Caucasus, from the scorching deserts of the Soviet Stans to the windswept steppes of Southern Russia. We talk with the founder of Soviet Tours Gianluca Pardelli. He is a Berlin-based photojournalist, adventurer and travel author who is fascinated by that enigmatic country that was once known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.  If you are enjoying the podcast, you can show your support via a monthly donation of $4, £3 or €3 via Patreon, plus you will get the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.Image by Arsenyi Kotov https://www.instagram.com/northern.friend/Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and background of Gianluca Pardelli4:07 The birth of Gianluca's interest in the Soviet Union8:01 Unique itineraries offered by Soviet Tours13:41 Ethics of photographing locals during tours18:45 The remote autonomous republics in the former Soviet Union24:03 Soviet Tours' expansion into Africa27:12 Short tours and volunteer programs33:56 Favorite region of the former Soviet Union35:46 Contact information for Gianluca Pardelli and Soviet Tours36:14 Acknowledging patrons and sponsorsChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our conversation with Rob Forsyth continues when he became Executive Officer - and in command on occasions - of HMS Repulse, a Polaris nuclear missile submarine.We hear in detail the challenges of command on these boats, their launch procedures and the conversations Rob had with his captain about the circumstances when they might refuse to launch the missiles.Rob tells of many fascinating incidents including a very close encounter with the Malin Head AGI, a notorious Soviet Spy trawler. We also hear about his promotion to “Teacher” or instructor for the Submarine Commanding Officers’ Qualifying Course aka “The Perisher” and his command of HMS Sceptre, a nuclear powered "hunter-killer" submarine.In the last section of our conversations, Rob tells us why his views on the British nuclear deterrent have changed. You can read more here http://www.whytrident.uk/I could really use your support to help me to continue to produce these podcasts. A monthly donation of $4, £3 or €3 via Patreon will really help, plus you will get the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Rob Forsyth to our Cold War conversation…There’s further information on this episode in our show notes which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode168/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction and overview of the episode0:59 Rob Forsyth's experiences on HMS Repulse, a Polaris nuclear missile submarine5:43 Missile tests and weapons system readiness routine11:19 Life on a submarine: staying active, alert, and coping with challenges17:06 The psychological aftermath of patrols: crew members' struggles23:47 Post-launch plans and moral implications of a nuclear attack31:55 Anecdotes and stories from Rob's time with HMS Repulse36:04 Rob's transition to a Perisher teacher and his experiences49:42 Rob's command of HMS Sector and encounters with Soviet submarines1:00:15 The financial and operational cost of Trident, and the UK's nuclear policyChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Commander Rob Forsyth joined submarines in1961. By March 1962 as a young officer, he joined HMS Auriga a 1945 vintage diesel submarine. Within 7 months the 22-year-old was loading live torpedoes and preparing for a war mission during the tense days of the Cuban Missile Crisis.Robs tell of many fascinating incidents in his career including under-ice operations and an incident where Rob's captain made an error that almost resulted in the total loss of submarine and crew.He also details what it was like to take the Submarine Commanding Officers’ Qualifying Course aka “The Perisher”. This six-month course is a prerequisite for the command of a submarine. Failure means your submarine career “perishes”.I could really use your support to help me to continue to produce these podcasts. A monthly donation of $4, £3 or €3 via Patreon will really help, plus you will get the sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history. Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/If a financial contribution is not your cup of tea, then you can still help us by leaving written reviews wherever you listen to us as well as sharing us on social media. It really helps us get new guests on the show.I am delighted to welcome Rob Forsyth to our Cold War conversation…There’s further information on this episode in our show notes which can also be found as a link in your podcast app here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode167/If you can’t wait for next week’s episode do visit our Facebook discussion group where guests and listeners continue the Cold War Conversation. Just search Cold War Conversations in Facebook.Thank you very much for listening. Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPodFacebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations0:00 Introduction1:15 Guest Introduction: Rob Forsyth, Royal Navy Veteran7:15 Submarine Training and the Cuban Missile Crisis Experience16:04 Recollection of Near-Miss Submarine Incidents18:10 Deployment to Canada and Leisure Time in Bermuda22:17 Lessons from Under Ice Operations and Handling Submarine in Icy Conditions28:47 Work on Sound Propagation in Water and Anti-Submarine Training33:47 Trimmed Down Submarine and Operation Differences in War and Peace Mode37:33 Life in the Far East Fleet and Goodwill Visits46:23 Experience of Perisher and the Realities of Submarine Command1:00:41 Maintaining Morale and Teamwork During Crisis1:05:00 Acknowledgment of the Patrons and Episode ConclusionChapters powered by PodcastAI✨ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices