The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Curt and Katie talk about the idea that burnout and depression could actually be the same thing. We look at how stigma and a sense of superiority may inhibit clinicians from reporting that they’re actually experiencing depression rather than “burnout.”        It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The blog article that sparked the conversation about why doctors don’t get depressed The idea that burnout and depression may be the same thing The functionality of diagnosis in treatment and how it impacts what one is diagnosed The definitions of burnout and depression and the different schools of thought The place of elitism both in the definition and the treatment of burnout A sense of superiority and or a feeling of higher level on the hierarchy leading to less burnout and depression Katie’s ideas around simple burnout or complicated burnout and the overuse of that word Where the ideas around burnout actually came from and whether it is a sound foundation The medical model divorcing depression from situational factors The concern that pop psychology may have invaded the space The idea that when people have sought the situation that has led to burnout or depression – there is an existential crisis The rationale that it is “worth it” because we have sacrificed to move forward in our career Tips from Freudenberger (who introduced the concept of Burnout) on how to avoid or treat burnout: hiring, work culture, thoughtfulness about work and work day, breaks and vacations, staff development and feeling time, sharing experiences, time off to learn, adequate staffing, balance of physical exercise

Curt and Katie talk about the Corona Virus scare. We look at how to take care of ourselves, our clients, and our businesses during the current outbreak. We also look at the mental health impacts and the legal and ethical responsibilities we have to our clients.         It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The current concerns about the Corona Virus The impacts of the virus on therapists How to identify our responsibilities as therapists Info from the World Health Organization and the Center for Disease Control on COVID-19 The reactions that we are seeing in society as mental healthcare professionals Looking at practical steps to increase safety in your office How to think about your cancellation policy Incorporating telehealth into your practice The complexity of insurance companies covering telehealth session Xenophobia toward individuals of Asian descent, and the mental health impact on these clients The impact on the individuals (or their caregivers) who have compromised immune systems of needing to remain home or in isolation The legal and ethical considerations When we can tell our clients that they must stay home and when it could be discrimination The problems with self-quarantines The importance of therapists refraining from contributing to the anxiety and sharing accurate information from reputable sources

An interview with Dr. Jamie Marich on how to navigate through dissociation in the therapy room. Curt and Katie interview Jamie about her own experiences with dissociation and what she does to cope as a dissociative professional. We discuss the importance of mindfulness and other strategies to take care of ourselves as well as treating dissociative clients. We also chat about how to navigate professional organizations as someone who likes to challenge the status quo.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Jamie Marich, Ph.D., LPCC-S, LICDC-CS, REAT, RYT-200, RMTJamie Marich, Ph.D., LPCC-S, LICDC-CS, REAT, RYT-200, RMT travels internationally speaking on topics related to EMDR therapy, trauma, addiction, expressive arts and mindfulness while maintaining a private practice in her home base of Warren, OH. She is the developer of the Dancing Mindfulness practice to expressive arts therapy and co-creator of the Yoga Unchained approach to trauma-informed yoga. Jamie is the author of seven books, including the popular EMDR Made Simple and EMDR Therapy and Mindfulness for Trauma Focused Care (Springer Publishing in 2018), written in collaboration with Dr. Stephen Dansiger. Her newest title, Process Not Perfection: Expressive Arts Solutions for Trauma Recovery, released in April 2019. North Atlantic Books is publishing a second and expanded edition of Trauma and the 12 Steps, due for release in the Summer of 2020.In this episode we talk about: Creative mindfulness Joy in facilitating transformation Jamie’s experience with trauma, addiction, dissociation, and how that led to her work EMDR and “the weird stuff” that has led to improved outcomes The power of embodied healing Jamie coming out as being in recovery, bisexual, and struggling with dissociation The response of other therapists to Jamie coming out as a dissociative professional The importance of being candid to remain present and to combat the label of impaired therapist Shame about dissociation and the difficulty therapists have in treating dissociation How to navigate through dissociation as a therapist – we all dissociate, just at different degrees The importance of mindfulness in combatting dissociation Rituals and routines to ground and return to the present Learning the models for treatment and then “breaking the rules elegantly” to innovate How institutes develop effectively and the struggles of bringing treatment to the mainstream Jamie’s standing up and pushing away from the mainstream – and some of the consequences Why Jamie and Curt love EMDR

Curt and Katie talk about the ins and outs of intuition. We look at when you can trust your gut feelings and when you cannot. We sort through how to actually develop and use clinical intuition as well as the problems that can come into play when you do not follow the appropriate steps.     It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Definitions of the 4 types of intuition: mystical, spurious, inferential, wholistic Confirmatory bias – how it can be known, but go unrecognized How operant conditioning might be supporting your feeling of being able to trust your gut Discounting affect (ignoring when your assumptions were wrong) Whether or not we should pay attention to Mercury in Retrograde The challenge of looking for evidence that both supports and challenges your assumptions The different individual characteristics that get in the way of evaluating things appropriately The importance of deliberate practice The two different thinking processes described by Daniel Kahneman in Thinking Fast and Slow The need to test our assumptions, even though it is potentially laborious or threatening Using the scientific method The problem with “mindbugs” like the availability heuristic and the misinformation effect in trying to actively improve our ability to assess data Deductive intuition versus inductive intuition Conditions required to use clinical intuition: regularity, practice, immediate feedback Looking for things that prove you wrong, hearing and sorting through both positive and negative feedback A danger of specialization where you fit every client into your area of focus The left brain/right brain fallacy When case examples or individual stories don’t honor all of the times that clinicians are wrong Unexamined bias is a constant challenge in trying to make sure you are evaluating the actual data and not what you are expecting to see Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below are affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Glyn Brokensha – Clinical Intuition: more than rational? Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People by Mahzarin R. Banaji and Anthony G. Greenwald Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Awakening Intuition by Terry Marks-Tarlow Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for SpeakersTherapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Sponsors Relevant Episodes and Blog Posts:Saying “Trust Your Gut” Is Bad AdviceDeliberate Practice episodes:Be a Better TherapistFinding Your Blindspots Connect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference) Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute Hour Credits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

An interview with Carrie Wiita and Ben Fineman, MFT Trainees and the co-hosts of the Very Bad Therapy podcast. Curt and Katie interview Ben and Carrie about their experience as graduate students and mental health advocates. We look at the short-falls of the educational system as well as the mythologies that stagnate the profession. We talk about how to improve therapy and the training we receive.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age. Interview with Carrie Wiita and Ben Fineman, Marriage and Family Therapist Trainees and Co-Hosts of the Very Bad Therapy podcastVery Bad Therapy gives voice to the stores that begin with an exasperated "You would not believe what happened with my therapist." Weekly episodes explore real-life stories of very bad therapy experiences as hosts Caroline Wiita and Ben Fineman seek to learn from diverse guests and experts in the field who help shed light on how things could have gone better. Supported by scientific research and a mission to bring out the best in psychotherapy through discussion of its worst moments, Very Bad Therapy is a corrective emotional experience for clinicians and clients alike. In this episode we talk about: How Curt is responsible for Carrie and Ben meeting (and how proud he is of that fact) What is missing in therapist education and how to look at the profession of therapy critically What we are told when we enter into the field and what the reality actually is How going to grad school and listening to MTSG Podcast can be super confusing The research that says therapists do not get better with experience The mythologies in the profession that stop us from being curious The disappointment in the status quo and the failure to move into the cutting edge The stagnation of the field when we have the same people talking about the same things The inconsistency of the faculty and their ability/desire to teach graduate students in therapy Problems with graduate programs related to the bureaucracy and misinformation Ben Caldwell’s Saving Psychotherapy (of course) Feedback on the Very Bad Therapy podcast (and how Carrie and Ben have taken it in) The importance of research, grounding in laws, ethics, clinical excellence, when challenging the status quo The willingness to make mistakes publicly and be transparent with accountability to normalize mistakes and reinforce that we are not perfect and cannot be perfect as therapists The role of defensiveness in very bad therapy The problem of perfectionism in the field Minimizing risk and maximizing “joining” or developing the therapeutic relationship How harmful the communication between therapists can be The impact of bias on the work How to improve your training

Curt and Katie talk about structuring self-care into your business practices. We look at how to incorporate self-care best practices into the way you build your work day. We also talk about common challenges to taking this advice.   It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Creating a cohesive plan for self-care in all aspects of your work Incorporating the concept of Flow into your work practices Defining Flow – the thoughts about losing yourself or being incredibly mindful The absence of mental load that occurs when you are doing the things that you are good at and enjoy most Decision fatigue, spoon theory Identifying how to set up your day strategically Studying your energy and motivation at different times of day The importance of rest, balancing of stress and rest to increase stamina The times when creativity comes are not when you’re working Working to prevent burnout, rather than manage it after it happens Intentionally scheduling rest and rejuvenating activities What types of rest are effective and what types of rest are ineffective The danger of the ideas of productivity and hustle The inefficiency of continuous running How to structure your schedule effectively Ritual and routine, grounding and mindfulness Creating systems to decrease the required number of decisions you need to make each day How the people around you elevate you or pull you down Intentionally separating “work” from home Closing out, decompression, and consultation Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below are affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! 2020 Kauai Continuing Education Retreat for Therapists Hosted by CAV AcademyFlow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly CsikszentmihalyiWhen: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Daniel PinkPeak Performance: Elevate Your Game, Avoid Burnout, and Thrive with the New Science of Success by Brad Stulberg and Steve Magness Spoon Theory Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty EdwardsTherapy Reimagined 2020 Call for SpeakersTherapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Sponsors Relevant Episodes:Self-Care, Self-Compassion, and Self-Awareness for TherapistsThe Danger of Poor Self-Care for TherapistsCompassion FatigueTherapists in TherapyToxic Work EnvironmentsManaging Vicarious TraumaThe Burnout SystemAddressing the Burnout SystemThe Mental Load of TherapistsAll Kinds of Burned Out Connect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference) Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute Hour Credits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

An interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSW about therapists who become suicidal. Curt and Katie interview Norine on the risk factors that therapists face as well as how we can support each other in our community. We talk about prevention, interventions with a colleague, and how to manage when a colleague dies by suicide. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSWNorine Vander Hooven is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and has been in practice for 32 years. She specializes in trauma, anxiety, suicide prevention, and life transitions. Norine is also certified in EMDR therapy, and is in training to be an EMDR therapy consultant. She uses this to work with people with PTSD, anxiety, and traumatic life events. Norine provides clinical consultation for therapists, as well as she works with young adults and adults in her private practice. Learn more at norinevanderhooven.comIn this episode we talk about: Following up on a previous episode, Therapist Suicide. Looking at supervisors who have died by suicide The lack of research and data regarding therapist suicide (both ideation and completion) The fear and stigma about disclosing suicidal ideation and attempts for therapists The difference between therapists and others in suicide risk Heightened risk factors for therapists How therapists take in the work with their clients The isolation and lack of support that can happen with therapists Suggestions for therapists to address suicidal thoughts, isolation, loneliness Belonging, Burden, and Capability The importance of community and consultation The suggestion to be in your own therapy Incorporating self-care even down to the small moments during the work day How to incorporate knowledge about the challenge of the profession into our educational system The shame therapists feel (both perceived and actual) about mental health challenges How to support therapists who might be experiencing suicidal thoughts How to provide therapy to therapists, incorporating conversations and assessment about suicide from the beginning, normalizing the experience and challenge of being a therapist Supporting therapists in our community Planning for postvention – comprehensive conversations after therapists have clients die by suicide or other big events in our colleagues’ lives The importance of normalizing the feelings that therapists could be presenting with in consultation groups What can we do when one of our colleagues die by suicide The typical reactions and responses from colleagues, clients, and community members Preparing to have a conversation with a client whose therapist has died by suicide

An interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSW about assessing suicide appropriately for our clients from the beginning of treatment. Curt and Katie talk with Norine about what therapists often miss with their clients and how to treat suicidality when it comes up.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSWNorine Vander Hooven is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and has been in practice for 32 years. She specializes in trauma, anxiety, suicide prevention, and life transitions. Norine is also certified in EMDR therapy, and is in training to be an EMDR therapy consultant. She uses this to work with people with PTSD, anxiety, and traumatic life events. Norine provides clinical consultation for therapists, as well as she works with young adults and adults in her private practice. Learn more at norinevanderhooven.comIn this episode we talk about: Norine’s story and how she entered into suicidology How to appropriately assess for Suicide Risk from the beginning of treatment What needs to be asked in your intake The fear that therapists have in deeply looking at suicide with clients The importance of exploring traumas from birth for clients Why “die by suicide” is so much better than “committed” suicide What #notsix means (how many people are actually affected by a single suicide) Risk factors for suicidality: lack of belonging, feeling of being a burden, capability What therapists often miss when assessing for suicide The need to understand the client’s perception of the level of crisis around suicidality Old school assessments and safety contracts that are not useful, and what to use instead Who is most at risk for suicidal thoughts What to consider in assessing for suicidality with clients who don’t appear to be at risk Different types of suicidal thoughts Searching for hope and forward thinking in life Types of treatment modalities to address all types of suicidal thoughts How to successfully assess, safety plan, and address suicide head on

Curt and Katie talk about the nuance of treating therapists in therapy. We look at the unique dynamics in the therapeutic relationship as well as common traps to avoid.   It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The lack of research or guidance on how to treat therapists in therapy How different are therapists as therapy clients What it is like to have a therapist for a therapy client What to assess for with therapists The importance of looking at what the presenting problem is The expectation that therapists would be different that other clients The therapeutic alliance and dual relationship conversations The dynamic of making assumptions about therapists as clients The theme of competition between client and therapist Therapists overidentifying with therapist clients and making inaccurate assumptions A different type of presenting problem and length of treatment Common coping strategies (i.e., rationalization, focusing on cognition, non-judgmental, disconnect from feelings) that need to be overcome more with therapist clients Clarifying the role and rules in the room, so we can take off the armor Avoiding the temptation of staying in intellect and insight Pushing for some comparison to other clients – reassurance, validation, vulnerability, trying to please or take care of the therapist The importance of the therapist holding the container, so the therapist-client can do their work How to navigate the differences between being a therapist and a supervisor or a manager How therapists are like other clients, but totally different Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Speakers Relevant Episodes:Therapists in Therapy Connect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference) Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute Hour Credits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

An interview with Pardis Mahdavi, PhD, and Negeen Moussavian, AMFT, regarding Iran, current events, and how the news might impact Iranian clients.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age. Interview with Pardis Mahdavi, PhD and Negeen Moussavian, AMFTPardis Mahdavi, PhD is currently Director of the School for Social Transformation at Arizona State University. Before coming to Arizona, she was Acting Dean of the Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver (2017-2019), after spending eleven years at Pomona College from 2006-2017 where she most recently served as professor and chair of anthropology and director of the Pacific Basin Institute at Pomona College as well as Dean of Women. Her research interests include gendered labor, human trafficking, migration, sexuality, human rights, transnational feminism, and public health in the context of changing global and political structures. She has published four single authored books and one edited volume in addition to numerous journal and news articles. She has been a fellow at the Social Sciences Research Council, the American Council on Learned Societies, Google Ideas, and the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. In 2018 she was appointed by Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper and re-appointed by Governor Jared Polis to serve on the Colorado Commission on Higher Education.Negeen Moussavian is a Registered Associate Marriage and Family Therapist (#107771) working under the supervision of Curt Widhalm LMFT (#47333) in Encino, CA. She received her Master of Arts in Clinical Psychology with an emphasis in Marriage & Family Therapy from Pepperdine University. She works with clients dealing with relationships, dating, infidelity, and trauma. Additionally, she works with Iranian-American clients on issues surrounding identity, generational trauma, and other culture specific topics. She implements a combination of holistic and traditional therapy practices, including EMDR therapy.In this episode we talk about: Current events in Iran as well as historical context Liminality – the feeling of not belonging here or there The importance of being informed The uncertainty that can lead to fear and then to hate The crushing tsunami wave of islamophobia that is coming in the United States How significant events related to Iran impact Iranian-Americans The dramatic changes within Iran How therapists can help Iranian families to cope with the impacts of current events