The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Mental Health EntrepreneurshipAn interview with Lawrence E. Shapiro, Ph.D. about lessons learned through serial entrepreneurship. Curt and Katie talk with Dr. Shapiro about how to identify whether your idea for a product or service is good, the importance of solving a problem, and what business models are strongest for therapists. He also talks with us about why we shouldn’t fall in love with our products, why we shouldn't expect to make money writing books, and why building apps don’t make sense. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Lawrence E. Shapiro, PhDLawrence E. Shapiro is an internationally known psychologist, recognized for his innovative and practical approach to helping people with mental health problems. Dr Shapiro has written more than 75 books and developed more than 100 therapeutic board and card games. His work has been published in 28 languages.Dr. Shapiro has developed a broad understanding of mental health problems in various professional positions as a teacher of emotionally disturbed teens, a school psychologist, a Director at the National Children’s Center in Washington D.C., and in private practice in Washington DC and Philadelphia.Dr. Shapiro is also considered a pioneer in using technology to address mental health problems. He has developed a number of apps for mobile devices, including an award-winning app to help prevent suicide among military personnel. He is the Founder and President of Between Sessions Resources, a company that develops clinical software for therapists and counselors and publishes therapeutic homework that professionals give to their clients to accelerate their growth.Dr. Shapiro’s books include:For Parents: How to Raise a Child with a High EQ: A Parents’ Guide to Emotional Intelligence; The Secret Language of Children; The Baby Emergency HandbookFor Kids and Teens: The ADHD Workbook for Kids; I’m Not Bad, I’m Just Mad, Stopping the Pain: A Workbook for Teens Who Cut and Self-InjureFor Adults: Overcoming Depression, The Panic Disorder Workbook, Taking Care of Your Mental Health During the COVID-19 PandemicDr. Shapiro is a frequent media guest, and has appeared on CNN, NPR, The Today Show, and many other national and local outlets.In this episode we talk about: Shapiro’s forays into entrepreneurship and alternate revenue streams The importance of getting used to making mistakes The lack of follow through that leave ideas as ideas (and not businesses or products) The need to actually be solving a problem, not pursuing an interest Finding something that has value to other people Writing books and self-publishing The goal for self-publishing a book (it’s not the profit) A book as a business card Strongest business models The need for on-going work and learning as an entrepreneur Protecting your work (copywriting, registered copywriting, trademarking) Ideas are just ideas and may not actually need protecting The perspective of improving on what others have done, rather than coming up with a unique idea or doing what has “never been done before” An iterative process to find your product, incremental innovation Leveraging the success of others How to learn what to do, following the recipe of what is worked Selling a business and moving onto the next idea Different places that people can shine – ideas, implementation, marketing The benefit of having partners to have different skill sets Marketing as building your platform and audience Why Dr. Shapiro advocates for email marketing The concept of a sales funnel and adding value along the way

Negotiating Sliding ScaleCurt and Katie chat about the pros and cons of sliding your fee for therapy services. We look at the theories around fee-setting, sliding fee scales, and conversations around money. We discuss what actually makes a difference in determining if clients are invested and will benefit from your services. We also dig into the laws, ethics, and practicalities if you choose to offer sliding scale in your practice. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Feedback from our conversation with Tiffany McLain Clinical theories on how fee impacts the clinical relationship The different ways that people enter into therapy, different financial situations, etc. A more nuanced conversation about sliding scale fee Freud’s views on having direct conversations with clients on fee How clinical orientation can impact how therapists view fee-setting The idea that fee must be set at an “uncomfortable enough” that clients invest in therapy How fee paid impacts attending the last session Different types of investments that might impact how much people benefit of treatment Practical ways to assess what fee would be in the sweet spot for sliding scale (e.g., written out scale, financials, etc.) Do therapists show up differently for clients who pay more or less? How fees average out among larger caseloads Incorporating outcome measures and practice-based evidence to assess whether you are showing up differently for clients who pay more or less Mythology around what we have to do and what is best to do Laws and ethics, practical considerations Usual and Customary fees Advertised fees Philosophy related to how you set your fees The impact of insurance on our profession related to sliding scale Ethical codes on fee setting related to services provided and client ability to pay Models of subsidy for mental health services The need for a standard justification The risks for insurance fraud related to fee-setting and accepting copays The ability to adjust usual and customary fee as needed as long as it doesn’t violate state law What we have to do and what the softer, virtue ethics might recommend The importance of accurate billing and justification The tension between the equity argument and the practicalities of business Are you unfairly treating clients who are paying less? The need for pro bono work, but not sliding scale work The need for clinician-led discussions and opt-in from the client Check your insurance contracts, advertise your fees correctly, written basis for a range of fees Options for sliding scale Other models for addressing access How to create a sliding scale practically Why you need to identify what you need to make on average per session Moving your sliding scale or pro bono work outside of your practice Our recommendations for Open Path Psychotherapy Collective and Give an Hour

Invisible and ScrutinizedAn interview with Dr. Sheila Modir on racial trauma and identity within the Middle Eastern North African (MENA) population. Curt and Katie talk with Sheila about how MENA individuals are impacted by racial profiling, prejudice, and the lack of data on the MENA community. We also explore typical coping strategies as well as how therapists can support MENA clients.    It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dr. Sheila ModirDr. Sheila Modir is a pediatric psychologist at Children’s Hospital of Orange County (CHOC). She obtained a combined doctoral degree in Clinical, Counseling, and School Psychology at the University of California, Santa Barbara and her master’s degree in social welfare at UCLA. Prior to coming to CHOC, Dr. Modir completed her doctoral internship at the UCLA Semel Institute for Neuroscience and Human Behavior where she worked at the UCLA Stress, Trauma, and Resilience Clinic. Her research interests include racial trauma and understanding risk and resilience factors in the context of trauma, and she has presented at conferences and published articles on this topic. Most recently, she has written a children’s book (coming fall 2021) called The Proudest Color, which is a timely and sensitive introduction to race, racism, and racial pride for children.In this episode we talk about: MENA (Middle Eastern and North African) clients The common mistake of assuming that all MENA clients are Muslim A lack of data on immigration and the demographics of these clients The lack of clinical research and education on MENA clients An invisible community that is greatly scrutinized due to profiling The layers of racial trauma Bronson Brenner’s ecological model: Sociopolitical discrimination, Institutional discrimination, Relational discrimination due to “cultural ignorance” The consistent portrayal of MENA individuals as terrorists, the Middle East as war-torn MENA individuals called terrorists versus white individuals called “lone wolves” who are “mentally ill” The impact of how the insurrection in January is viewed as “white terrorism” What influences racism and bias against MENA clients The typical coping strategies for MENA clients related to racial trauma Resignation, cowering, “getting used to it” leading to depression and anxiety Coping strategies, including education and being a cultural representative The contrast between the Asian American community pushing back against the “model minority” while MENA clients are aspiring to be a model minority The importance of identification of MENA individuals on the census How the Muslim Ban has impacted MENA individuals’ relationship with the government Clients minimizing, denying, not disclosing racial trauma The thirst for appropriate and accurate information on culture The benefit of affinity groups How non-MENA therapists can best support MENA clients The nuance of asking a MENA client to educate you as a therapist Collectivist culture and how it shows up in the room, how it can be complicated The challenge of cultural sensitivity when there is little research A call to action regarding research and education

Understanding PolyamoryAn interview with Dana McNeil, LMFT, about polyamory and ethical non-monogamy. Curt and Katie talk with Dana about the basics that every therapist should understand about polyamory. We cover some of the vocabulary, the values and perspectives within the polyamory community, as well as the biases many therapists hold and what therapists often get wrong when working with polyamorous clients. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Dana McNeil Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Co-Founder of Confident Couples TherapistDana McNeil is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and is the founder The Relationship Place, a group practice located in San Diego, California. Dana’s practice specializes in couples’ therapy and utilizes an evidence-based type of couples’ therapy which is known as the Gottman Method. Dana is a certified Gottman Method therapist and Bringing Home Baby instructor. Dana’s practice works with all types of relationship issues from pre-marital counseling, dealing with the aftermath of extramarital affairs, partners working through addiction recovery, military deployed families, parents of special needs children, LGBTQ, and polyamorous clients.Dana has been featured on many relationship podcasts and in publications such as the Business Insider, Authority Magazine, Eat This-Not That, Parade, Oprah Living, Martha Stewart Living, Ladders, AARP, and is the resident relationship expert on the Cox Communications show “I Do.”Dana is also the co-founder of Confident Couples Therapist, a consultation and training program. She and her partner Nancy Ryan teach the tips and techniques to build a successful cash pay practice working with couples.In this episode we talk about: Polyamory and ethical non-monogamy (ENM) The faulty assumption that therapists don’t have skills to work with polyamorous clients The complexity of the non-monogamous relationships Jealousy versus compersion Metamour, Polycule, and new relationship energy The goals and aspirations within the polyamorous community The underlying reasons for entering into polyamorous relationships The poly identity and lifestyle Typical biases therapists hold related to ethical non-monogamy The difference between boundaries and rules and agreements The negative tone that can express bias to client Dana’s use of the Gottman method with ENM clients The reality of how ENM relationships – emotional and practical logistics The importance of transparency, clear communication within these relationships Considerations related to when members of the polycule are parents, who and how they are introduced to children Sex, fluid bonding, protection and testing Swingers have sex as sport, open relationships are sexual, poly relationships may be for love and romance and not sex The stigma and misunderstanding that these individuals may face

Overcoming Your Poverty MindsetAn interview with Tiffany McLain about how therapists deserve to make a good living and often do not. Curt and Katie interview Tiffany regarding her perspectives related to how sliding scale fees can perpetuate racist and classist systems, the problem with therapists sacrificing themselves and acting as saviors, and the impact you can make if you amass wealth and seek luxury. It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Tiffany McLain, LMFTTiffany McLain, LMFT is a therapist & consultant whose mantra is, “Full fees are the new black.” Via her program, The Lean In. MAKE BANK. Academy, she helps therapists ethically earn 30 to 50% more per month while seeing fewer clients by showing them how to think about and directly address fees in a clinically appropriate manner.In this episode we talk about: Tiffany’s Lean In Make Bank Academy How current events are impacting therapists making money The belief system that we are hurting clients by charging them Why therapists are so susceptible to these messages How women and minorities are external reinforced to sacrifice ourselves The stigma of building wealth, living life more fully, seeking luxury Grappling with raising fees, with people needing help The internal dialogue that comes in when trying to raise fees How luxury has been sustained on the backs of others The misguided attempt to fix the system through self-sacrifice What the cost is when you self-sacrificing The problem with Saviorism How a sliding scale can encourage racism and classism Negating self-efficacy and fostering dependency, through lowering our fees Sliding scale = subsidizing our client’s treatment Tiffany’s experience with a sliding scale therapist How gratitude for a therapist sliding their fee can lead to clients hiding themselves, not fully showing up or engaging in treatment effectively The value issue related to people asking for a sliding fee or balking at paying the full fee How these issues may come in at the beginning of a therapist’s career Talking about your fee as a clinical intervention Unconscious dynamics that keep us from acting on what we know re: setting fees and money Money is a representation of the therapist’s need and desire Processing emotional reactions to fee changes with clients. For example: “When I raise my fees, it hurts you” without collapsing, lowering the fee, or losing boundaries The challenge of looking at financial capacity for individuals The idea that we do not have to take care of individuals who cannot afford our fee in order to create access – and ideas of how we can increase impact once we’ve had the ability to create financial stability and wealth The benefit to society of women gaining wealth, with the ability to make a bigger impact The importance of setting your fee appropriately from the beginning

Navigating Pregnancy as a TherapistAn interview with Emily Sanders, LMFT about how to navigate being a therapist while pregnant. Curt and Katie talk with Emily about when and how to disclose to clients, what it means to integrate the pregnancy into the clinical work, the transference and the richness that is available in the clinical work. We also look at practical, business, and clinical logistics for pregnant therapists (with a couple of thoughts for therapists with pregnant partners).        It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Emily Sanders, LMFTEmily Sanders is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in the state of California who works in a solo private practice in Orange County seeing individuals and couples. Her areas of focus are anxiety, perfectionism, attachment wounds, and relationship issues. In addition to her 8+ years of clinical practice, Emily has taught Human Development and Advanced Counseling at Life Pacific University, speaks for retreats and workshops, and contributed to leadership health and readiness assessment teams. Of all the roles she plays, she most loves being wife to her husband, Michael, of 13 years and mother to their three children Liv, Ellis, and Arlin.In this episode we talk about: The challenges facing therapists when navigating pregnancy Whether or not to hide pregnancies as long as you can How to integrate the pregnancy into the clinical work The fear of bringing your parenting journey into the work Navigating client infertility while pregnant The individual differences that could impact disclosure, transference and the clinical work Considerations for when and how to disclose to each client Themes of abandonment that can come up Desires that clients can express related to wanting to be your partner or your baby The connection clients may feel and what they can witness, the curiosity they can experience Assessing the level of self-disclosure Seeking the stories related to considerations related to parenting and the parenting journey Integrating self into the room as a whole person therapist Planning for taking time away from your practice The business considerations (including finances) Clinical coverage and whether clients return to you after a maternity leave Idea for notifying clients when the baby is born The importance of looking put together when you return and challenging the notion that you might be fragile Transference when you return Looking at the timing of how long you can be gone (financial consideration) The fear that people will decide on their leave based on financial concerns Opportunities afforded when you are going to be out for maternity Business considerations to make sure you’ve addressed prior to maternity leave The logistics of breast feeding when you return to work Considerations when your partner is pregnant Logistic versus comfort-seeking questions you can get from clients both before and after pregnancy

White Terrorism and TherapyCurt and Katie chat about the attack on the US Capitol by radicalized Trump supporters. We talk about the role therapists play in addressing white supremacist terrorism, how to support clients in responding to a domestic terror attack, and what therapy looks like for clients who are impacted by Trump supporters or radical rhetoric. We also talk about the challenge of finding compassion, the need for thoughtful communication, and ideas about how to move forward.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: White Supremacy Terrorism, Domestic Terrorism, and the definition of Terrorism The evolving threat of White Supremacy Our responses to the domestic terrorism activity, the insurrection at the Capitol Processing the event in real time during sessions, with clients with double screen The lack of definition in the role of therapists during this time Thoughts related to people connecting violence to mental illness QAnon, other groups and the need to understand what they are, the signs The different types of clients coming into our office and how to support them Dealing with the “white stuff” like white apathy, being further removed from the events Susceptibility to political reactionism Trauma around safety, responses to the lack of equity, vulnerability, marginalization The importance of opening conversations and allowing clients to fully express their experience Supporting clients who have been pushed away from Trump supporters among family or friends Self-Identity versus Family-Identity Responding to divisive messages The complexity of interacting with someone who has been radicalized The need for community and connection to shift the culture What to do when a client who is in the process of being radicalized enters your therapy office The harm of “what about-ism” Risk factors for radicalization Conversations beyond Tarasoff and safety planning Desire for connection, attachment needs Simplicity of radicalized rhetoric and the goal to dig deeper into underlying needs and goal The possibility of therapy as a counter to the division Societal change, needed messaging, taking care of disenfranchised folks We are pro-human The need for compassionate communication Making things real to people who are disconnected and have the option to opt out, so they choose and can re-engage in the societal change that is needed A reminder to take care of yourselves as therapists during this time 

Taking a Shot at VaccinationsCurt and Katie chat about Covid vaccinations and how that will impact your work as a therapist. We look at who can be required to get a vaccine, what accommodations can be made for people who do not want to (or cannot) get vaccinated, and the clinical implications of the vaccine conversation coming into the therapy room.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: Laws and ethics related to requiring vaccinations for clients and employees Vaccine exemptions and who/how they need to be honored The best practices of encouraging Accommodations for people who are not vaccinated The complexities of following the health advice Different considerations for employees and employers What the implications are for requiring clients to get vaccines The challenges of talking with clients about vaccines Other options related to telehealth, masks, timelines for vaccines When you may need to refer out Strategies for working with insurance in the transition What to do when you’re working at an agency Implications for mental health access Protecting yourself and managing your own risk Clinical Implications of the vaccine and how to talk with your clients Respecting the different reasons why people may be hesitant or refuse to get vaccinated The cultural differences relevant to interaction with the medical system The power differential and clinical ramifications Helping clients making decisions around vaccination Scope of practice and medical decision-making The challenge to physical health being out of our scope of practice The importance of having adequate knowledge of the science of the vaccines and the health decisions that clients often make Where ethics come in – forcing our clients to follow “science” is unethical Navigating the power differential Additional considerations that we were not able to talk about

You Don’t Have to Be A Thought LeaderCurt and Katie chat about the latest pressures on therapists to become “thought leaders.” We look at how thought leadership is defined, what it typically is trying to solve, and other options therapists can take if they aren’t ready to be in the spotlight, start a side hustle, or leave the profession.It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.In this episode we talk about: The definitions of thought leader Why you must earn the title of thought leader Thought leadership as content marketing Repackaging content, predicting the future, or sharing a brand-new perspective The role of luck in thought leadership The importance of doing “you” whether you choose to use thought leadership or not The option to be a therapist in private practice without doing thought leadership as your form of content marketing Assessing values, skills, and energy in your decision whether you focus on thought leadership Challenging the notion that you have to leave the career if you’re burned out The ability to have hobbies and not monetizing everything Other options to address burnout or financial needs or lack of meaning in your work The myth of passive income and thought leadership as a mechanism to a better life The idea of fixing your business as an alternative The focus on the thoughts as the strongest, most aligned type of thought leadership Force of personality and Cult-like leadership Take an uncomfortable look at where you’re at to determine what you can do going forward Identifying a path forward that doesn’t get you stuck (stepping outside of shoulds) How to assess what is missing or what you’d like to get rid of The concept of self-leadership

Malpractice is No JokeAn interview with Rachel Warners of CPH & Associates on the ins and outs of liability insurance. Curt and Katie talk with Rachel about some myths related to therapist liability, the best practices in getting (and keeping yourself) insured. We also talk about the types of claims and the services that are covered when you’re insured. We look at how you can best protect yourself from malpractice claims and what the most common complaints (and consequences) are.       It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.Interview with Rachel Warners, CPH & AssociatesRachel Warners is the Director of Operations at CPH & Associates, a leading provider of Professional Liability Insurance for mental health provider. Having been with CPH for 10 years, she understands the importance and unique nature of a therapists work and is proud to partner with them in protecting their career.In this episode we talk about: Why you need liability insurance The benefit of keeping liability insurance continuously through your whole career Why you may need a policy while working as a W-2 with an employer who is covering you Debunking some myths about your liability The problem with letting your policy lapse or having a gap in coverage The benefits of continuously coverage (especially if you’d like to get credentialed with insurance) The types of services you’re entitled to when you’re covered The ability consult when you get subpoenaed Common board complaints and lawsuits, like practicing outside the scope of licensure, negligent supervision, boundary and dual relationship issues, custody conflicts, unprofessional conduct When you are not covered, even when you have insurance The consequences of having a board complaint whether the complaint is dismissed or not (and how to navigate reporting this to your insurance carrier, etc) How often complaints are founded or unfounded The cost of protecting yourself from complaints Other types of insurance you may want to consider as a practice owner (general liability - slip and fall, personal property coverage, cyber liability) Insuring your corporate name The importance of protecting yourself and using insurance to cover costs of handling your defense or the required steps to repair what is broken The ways that you can avoid liability, including accessing the resources availability to you Considerations for Telehealth Resources mentioned:We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!CPH & Associates: www.cphins.comCPH phone line: 312-987-9823 | 800-875-1911Articles on Avoiding LiabilityRelevant Episodes: Toxic Work Environments Joining Your AssociationConnect with us!Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined Conferences Our consultation services:The Fifty-Minute HourCredits:Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/