The Disrupters: Faith Changing Culture

Leaders are expected to meet increasingly high standards, but many are silently suffering under the pressure of constantly needing to perform. But God never called us to perform—He called us to be relational people.In this episode of The Disrupters, host Nicole Martin is joined by Sheila Wise Rowe and Dr. Nicholas Rowe, co-authors of Healing Leadership Trauma, spiritual formation mentors, and longtime leaders in ministry and education. Sheila Wise Rowe is an award-winning author and counselor who has spent over 30 years walking alongside abuse and trauma survivors. Dr. Nicholas Rowe is the Hansen Associate Professor of Leadership at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, with decades of experience in leadership, reconciliation, and formation. Together, they offer not only practical wisdom but a deep well of spiritual insight.Through honest reflection, they unpack how unhealed trauma fuels performance-based leadership and how many Christian leaders carry the past, present, and future like a crushing weight. They discuss how early wounds, fear of failure, and pressure to succeed can disconnect leaders from their core identity in Jesus. But when you crucify performance, what rises is something far more powerful: character rooted in truth, leadership grounded in rest, and a witness that’s not built on performance, but presence.Tune in now to discover how surrendering performance can allow you to lead as a “human being,” not a “human doing.”This episode highlights the following themes:Crucifying performance and recovering authenticityHealing leadership trauma across past, present, and futureLeading others by being rooted in your identity in ChristLinks from the episode:Learn more about Sheila Wise Rowe and Dr. Nicholas RoweCheck out their book: Healing Leadership TraumaLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin's book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In a culture that promises life will go "up and to the right," we're conditioned to believe that success follows a predictable trajectory of increasing achievement and personal fulfillment. But for Christians who desire to lead more faithfully, our expectations for life and leadership must come from what God says about us, about our calling, and about his kingdom.In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin talks with Joanna Meyer, Director of Public Engagement at the Denver Institute for Faith and Work and author of the award-winning book Women, Work and Calling. As a leader in the national Women, Work and Calling initiative, Joanna brings deep insight into how Gospel-formed expectations become the foundation for authentic calling and faithful leadership.Nicole and Joanna explore what it means to crucify our expectations and lead from a place of flexible surrender rather than rigid entitlement. They share about their experiences as women who lead and serve in the Church, and how they’ve needed to navigate and sometimes reject the expectations that have been placed upon them in the process. Joanna shares her journey through unmet expectations, revealing how beauty and brokenness have worked together to shape her calling and deepen her relationship with Jesus. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize the difference between being faithful and being fruitful, challenging listeners to align their hopes with what God promises will be rather than their own expectation of what should be.Tune in now to discover how to develop faithful expectations, navigate disappointment, and remain anchored in the Gospel when life doesn't go according to plan.This episode highlights the following themes:The difference between being faithful and being fruitful in leadershipHow broken expectations can deepen intimacy with ChristMoving forward in faithfulness when life doesn't meet expectationsLinks from the episode:Learn more about Joanna MeyerCheck out Joanna's book: Women, Work and CallingLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin's book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In a culture obsessed with numerical growth and expansion, Christian leaders often measure success by the size of their congregation, budget, or influence. But for believers who desire to lead with integrity and purpose, we must reframe our leadership goals with a different question in mind: "What are we measuring, and why?"In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Bishop Geoffrey Dudley, pastor of New Life in Christ Church and CEO of Ilead Enterprises. As a retired Air Force chaplain with over 20 years of service and the author of Leading Through the Storms, Bishop Dudley brings practical leadership wisdom and spiritual insight to navigating ministry growth and decline.Together, Nicole and Bishop Dudley explore what it means to "crucify scale" and lead through the inevitable storms of ministry. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize that true success isn't measured merely by numbers but by the depth of maturity, spiritual growth, and kingdom impact. Bishop Dudley shares his journey from preaching at age thirteen, Air Force chaplaincy, and later to pastoring a thriving church, revealing how storms and challenges crystallized his calling and transformed his approach to leadership. Together, they invite us to practice honest self-reflection and align our understanding of scale with God’s vision.If you've ever felt dissonance between your vision for growth and your current reality, this conversation is for you.Tune in now to discover how to measure what truly matters and lead faithfully through both seasons of expansion and turbulence.This episode highlights the following themes:Finding meaning beyond numerical metrics in ministryPreparing for inevitable leadership stormsDeveloping multi-generational leadership for long-term impactDifferentiating between growing a church and growing disciplesLinks from the episode:Learn more about Bishop Geoffrey DudleyCheck out Bishop Dudley's book: Leading Through the StormsLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin's book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In a culture that celebrates the pursuit of “more,” we’re taught that success is measured by the accumulation of wealth. But for Christians who desire to lead their families, churches, or organizations well, we must commit to a different teaching: “You cannot serve both God and money.”In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Bob Doll, CEO and Chief Investment Officer at Crossmark Global Investments, a long-time financial strategist and faithful servant leader. With over 40 years in the financial industry and regular appearances as a finance correspondent on CNBC and Bloomberg, Bob brings both economic insight and a gospel-centered mindset to wealth management.Together, Nicole and Bob talk about what it looks like to follow Jesus in a consumption society. Throughout their conversation, they emphasize that God doesn’t want our money—he wants us—challenging us to reassess how we define our own value. Bob offers practical wisdom on confronting the love of money, decluttering our lives, and living with an eternal perspective. He shares how he balances wealth with generosity while keeping the Kingdom of God front and center. If you’ve ever struggled to serve God with your finances or felt trapped in the iron grip of material wealth, this conversation is for you.Tune in now to discover how to live generously, steward well, and invest in eternal riches.This episode highlights the following themes:The differences between temporary and eternal wealthLiving in freedom from the fear of scarcityHow to faithfully save, invest, and use our moneyLinks from the episode:Learn more about Bob DollCheck out Crossmark Global InvestmentsLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

To whom have you given your loyalty? Who is loyal to you?A hallmark of modern leadership is the demand for unquestioning loyalty—loyalty to the boss, loyalty to the organization, loyalty to the vision.  But when loyalty is demanded instead of inspired, it can quietly become a weapon of control that quashes dissent, silences the vulnerable, and enables abuse.  And misplaced loyalties can create harmful power imbalances in even the most equitable organizations.In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with Dr. Natasha Sistrunk Robinson—writer, international speaker, leadership consultant, mentoring coach, and founder of Leadership LINKS, Inc. Natasha is a former Marine Corps officer, graduate of the US Naval Academy, and author of many books, including A Sojourner’s Truth. With over two decades of leadership experience across the military, government, church, and nonprofit spaces, she brings clarity and conviction to what it means to lead with integrity and inspire loyalty to God.Natasha offers stories from her time in the military and the church, exposing how misplaced loyalty can cover abuse, silence victims, and keep leaders trapped in cycles of control. From church politics to mentoring dynamics, she names the hard truths: spiritual leaders are not immune to abusing people’s loyalty, and even Christians can be tempted to place their loyalty with people rather than with God. But she also shows a better way—how consistent meditation on God’s Word and practicing sacrificial leadership can inspire loyalty to God and his mission rather than to us and our own. Jesus never demanded loyalty, he invited people to follow. And healthy leaders should do the same. Tune in now.This episode highlights the following themes:Practicing intentional, considerate, sacrificial leadershipPower dynamics, boundaries, and abuse of loyaltyHow to lead to inspire loyalty to Jesus and his missionLinks from the episode:Learn more about Natasha Sistrunk RobinsonRead Natasha Sistrunk Robinson’s book: A Sojourner’s TruthExplore Leadership LINKSLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

What if your desire to “get it right” is the very thing preventing you from doing what God wants to do through you? We often cling to perfection because we fear loss. However, transformation and leading through change always demand it.In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin welcomes Tod Bolsinger, leadership expert, professor, and author of the new Practicing Change Series, as well as Canoeing the Mountains and Tempered Resilience. Tod is the founder of AE Sloan Leadership and serves as executive director of the DePree Center Church Leadership Institute. With decades of pastoral and consulting experience, he brings powerful wisdom on navigating real transformation in leadership, especially when the path forward is unclear, uncomfortable, and costly.In this engaging conversation, Tod challenges the myth of lossless leadership and invites us into the real work of adaptive change. He confronts the idol of perfectionism in leadership, showing how anxiety, ego, and the pressure to always know what to do frequently get in the way of real growth. He challenges Christians to stop expecting that following Jesus will be a comfortable, lossless process. Tod also shares how spiritual resilience is formed, not found, and how keeping a Jesus-centered view of organizational leadership requires pursuing the mission, never the brand. When we stop trying to control the outcome and instead join hands with others, we begin to move forward one faithful, imperfect step at a time. Because the goal isn’t about looking like you’ve got it all together. It’s about trusting God enough to lose what’s safe, so something eternal can rise in its place.Tune in now to discover what you need to lay down to lead with courage, clarity, and Christ at the center of everything.This episode highlights the following themes:Crucifying perfection and embracing transformationLeading through loss and adaptive changeHolding mission and identity above brand and imageLinks from the episode:Learn more about Tod BolsingerRead Tod Bolsinger’s new series: Practicing ChangeRead Tod Bolsinger’s books: Canoeing the Mountains and Tempered ResilienceLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

What if the influence you’re chasing is costing you a more valuable, eternal reward? In a culture obsessed with instant likes, applause, and relevance, many leaders are settling for temporary honor instead of eagerly seeking God’s praise. In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with Christine Caine—speaker, author, activist, and founder of A21, Propel Women, and Equip & Empower. For over 30 years, Christine has served the global Church, fought human trafficking, and raised up women to walk boldly in their God-given purpose. She brings raw honesty and spiritual fire to this conversation, sharing what it really means to crucify our obsession with worldly influence and to influence the world for Jesus instead.Christine speaks with conviction about the difference between fame and faithfulness, urging us to surrender to God in the hard seasons that He uses to shape us. She challenges the idea that anointing is about being seen when it is more often forged in the dark—through obscurity, faith, failure, and years of preparation. As Christine shares stories of the cost of her own faithfulness, we’re reminded that real influence starts, is sustained, and ends in deep dependence on God. True influence is not about how many people follow you, but whether your life leads others to follow Jesus. Listen to the full episode now.This episode highlights the following themes:Eternal rewards over temporary applauseGod’s anointing as the source of true influenceTrusting God's process over platform-buildingLinks from the episode:Learn more about Christine CaineLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin’s book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian FellowshipAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Have you ever caught yourself craving applause more than God’s praise? In a culture that thrives on followers, likes, and platforms, it’s dangerously easy to let our egos take the lead. But what if leadership was never meant to be about who sees you, but about how you radically serve others? What if true authority isn’t marked by the applause you receive from people, but by the joy you receive from God? That’s the message that Jesus taught when he said, “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to lay down his life as a ransom for many.”In this episode of The Disrupters podcast, host Nicole Martin sits down with Chrishan Jeyaratnam, lead pastor at Hillsong East Coast. From growing up between cultures in Australia to leading one of the largest and most recognizable church communities in the world, Chrishan’s story is full of challenges, grace, and humble leadership. With profound vulnerability, he opens up about what it takes to tame the ego and stay grounded in God's love while standing on even the largest stages.Chrishan shares his personal story—from navigating identity as a child of Sri Lankan immigrants in Australia to leading a global church in the heart of New York City. Along the way, he confesses the hidden weight many leaders quietly carry: the pressure to perform and the applause that feeds the ego. He reflects on how easy it is to confuse public affirmation with spiritual authority, and how even good intentions can become entangled with pride. But instead of shame, he offers a freeing truth: you don’t have to destroy your ego, you have to anchor it. Through contemplative silence, emotional intimacy with others, and a deep understanding of God’s unwavering delight, he urges leaders to stop leading for love and start leading from love. Because God’s message to his people isn’t just “Be strong”—it’s “Be still and know that I am God.” We invite you to join us in crucifying our egos together. Engage in God’s joy, feel his pleasure in your calling, and start leading from a place of wholeness and humility. Listen to the episode now!This episode highlights the following themes:The essential, daily discipline of crucifying ego in leadershipNarcissism, pride, and how societies reward self-centerednessLeading for God’s praise instead of worldly affirmationLinks from the episode:Learn more about Chrishan JeyaratnamLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin’s Book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

True power isn’t about control—it’s about surrender. When the world demands dominance, Jesus calls us to be servants, people who are a witness to God’s power by the way we live in “with-ness” with others.In this first episode of the sixth season of The Disrupters podcast, Hosanna Wong joins host Nicole Martin to tackle one of the most common leadership idols: Power. Wong is an international speaker, bestselling author, and spoken word artist. Known for her powerful piece “I Have A New Name,” she challenges us in this episode to embrace the truth that God’s power actually is made perfect in our weakness. Her latest book, “You Are More Than What You've Been Told,” unpacks how God's love for us overshadows what the world says about us.In this conversation, we’re confronting what it means to crucify our own power so that we can lead in God’s divine power instead. Step into the freedom of sharing the Good News with people, not holding it over them. Discover the hope found in real relationships and learn what it means to stay rooted in God's power, even when the pressures of leading become overwhelming. Be encouraged to trust God more deeply as Wong shares a story about her brother Elijah, a testament to the impact of God’s miraculous power in her own life.Be inspired. Be challenged. Be disrupted. Tune in to discover how the power of God’s love can heal and transform us and our leadership practices.This episode highlights the following themes:Leading in God’s power when you are powerlessAuthenticity and humility in leadershipThe impact of God's love over worldly powerLinks from the episode:Learn more about Hosanna WongRead Hosanna Wong’s book: You Are More Than What You've Been ToldLearn more about Nicole MartinRead Nicole Martin’s Book: Nailing ItRead the transcript hereCredits:✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tDisclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

The world is undergoing a crisis of leadership.Traditional models of leadership are no longer serving institutions and their constituents well.Leaders need new, innovative paradigms to counter the status quo and to serve their organizations.In season six of The Disrupters, host Nicole Massie Martin, IVP author and chief operating officer at Christianity Today, reveals healthy leadership disruptions that lead to flourishing in the home, the workplace, the church, and the world.Martin converses with pastors, executives, parents, activists, and influencers like Hosanna Wong, Tod Bolsinger, and Christine Caine to inspire us to crucify our leadership idols and nail our outdated leadership practices to the cross.Join Nicole Massie Martin as she explores the ways that Christians can disrupt unhealthy leadership structures and practices.Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or watch on the IVP YouTube channel.Season six of The Disrupters kicks off on April 9th.Links and CreditsLearn more about The DisruptersLearn more about Nicole Massie MartinRead Nailing It by Nicole Massie Martin✅Special offer: Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPOD25 for 25% off any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.✅Producers: Jack Reece and Travis Albritton✅Executive Producer: Helen Lee✅Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts✅Social Media Manager: Allie Noble✅Production Assistant: Christine Pelliccio Melo✅Podcast Art: Kate Lillard✅Theme Song: "Something Else" by Nu Alkemi$tAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands