It's the motherlode episode.Most women of a certain age (our age) have kids. They just do. And we don't. Living in that reality can be complicated — it's fun to be an "auntie," but it's not the same as being a mom — there's grief and there's gain. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy grapple with their own winding paths to life without kids. We share what's it's meant to mourn that loss while finding ways to embrace the gifts of a childfree life.We're joined by Erin S. Lane who helps us challenge the default scripts of motherhood that society — and churches! — so often impose on women's lives.GUEST: Erin S. Lane is a writer, theologian, and author of "Someone Other Than a Mother." She has a masters in gender studies from Duke Divinity School and works as a vocational retreat facilitator.

Is this real blood we're drinking?There's an old joke that a religion is a cult plus time. So are we just late comers to a very old cult? Katelyn and Roxy explore this plus all the other scary things — like aging! — in our All Hallow's Eve episode. And religion reporter Sam Kestenbaum joins to talk vampires, mummies, QAnon devotees, and groups with some cult-y vibes (including maybe ... some of the churches we've attended).GUEST: Sam Kestenbaum is a religion reporter who has written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, RNS and many other outlets about fringe and fascinating religious groups.

The midterms ... truly the spookiest season of them all.Everyone seems to be talking about Christian nationalism right now. The phrase is in the air. And, while, there's plenty of focus on the evangelical vote every election cycle, this is not quite the same. Religion News Service, and especially religion and politics correspondent Jack Jenkins, has long been covering this new iteration of Christian nationalism. So, for this special episode, in the run up to the midterms, Roxy talks with Jack about his (award-winning) reporting on Christian nationalism over the past few years.What is it? Where did it come from? And why is it playing such an outsized role in American politics right now?GUEST: Jack Jenkins is a national reporter for RNS based in Washington, covering the intersection of religion and politics as well as U.S. Catholics. He is the author of “American Prophets: The Religious Roots of Progressive Politics and the Ongoing Fight for the Soul of the Country.”This episode was produced with support from The Stiefel Freethought Foundation.

Can men and women just be friends or does the sex always get in the way?Billy Graham and Billy Crystal both seemed to believe the answer was: nope and yes, always.A rare instance of overlap in the evangelical-Hollywood Venn diagram, perhaps. But maybe it shouldn't be? In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy discuss their own friendships with men: when and how they've worked — and why they sometimes haven't. And we explore the vision Christianity offers for non-romantic, opposite sex relationships. Plus: coarse joking! Whatever that means.

Oh, the pressure of perfection.Is there anyone who reads the Bible with the intensity of an evangelical 12-year-old? So asks Charles Marsh, our guest for this episode and the author of "Evangelical Anxiety: A Memoir."We resonate.Katelyn and Roxy reflect on the amped up nature of an evangelical upbringing, recalling childhood fantasies of martyrdom, the high stakes proposal of eternal salvation or damnation, and Christian bumper stickers.GUEST: Charles Marsh is a professor of religious studies at the University of Virginia and director of the Project on Lived Theology. Charles grew up as a preacher’s kid in the Deep South in the 1970s and writes about those experiences in his new book "Evangelical Anxiety: A Memoir."

Let's be honest: Christians seem uniquely bad at having a good time.We get it: slippery slopes, dens of iniquity, roads to hell, etc. But maybe we've taken the Puritan instinct a little too far? Made everything that's fun suspect? Maybe it's time to lighten up a bit, look around at all God's created and go delight in it? Well, we'd like to give it a try anyway.This week, "fun coach" Annie F. Downs joins Katelyn and Roxy to go deep on being lighthearted. She makes the case for why fun is essential to our calling. Plus: speed dating!GUEST: Annie F. Downs is a NYT Bestselling author, self-appointed "fun coach" and founder of the "That Sounds Fun" podcast network. Check out her newest book, "Chase the Fun: 100 Days to Discover Fun Right Where You Are." 

It all started innocently enough: with evangelistic aerobics.As many famous Christians do, Beth Moore entered ministry with a simple desire: to teach people about Jesus. In the 1980s, that meant choreographing aerobics routines to Contemporary Christian Music. (Think Jazzercise for Jesus.) It also meant teaching a women’s Bible study class at church that quickly mushroomed in size. Soon, Beth was speaking at churches across the country, publishing several best-selling Bible studies, and starting her own ministry, Living Proof.Many leaders would envy this kind of ascendant reach. As it turns out, Beth wouldn’t wish superstardom on anyone. As she told Katelyn and Roxy in this week’s episode, she doesn’t think anyone can thrive under an intense spotlight; they can only hope to survive it.Beth has indeed survived it, using her platform since 2016 to speak up on behalf of women and people of color who have been hurt and marginalized in the evangelical church. Her public advocacy has received scrutiny from SBC leaders and online gadflies, but Beth is surviving because of the support of her family, plus simple joys like using her cast-iron skillet, visiting her neighbor’s donkey, and making batches of jelly.GUESTS:Beth Moore is the founder of Living Proof Ministries and the author of several Bible studies and books, including the forthcoming memoir All My Knotted-Up Life.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

American Idol: Worship Leader Edition.In the past two decades, worship music has dominated the Christian music charts, bringing churches like Hillsong into the evangelical mainstream and making millions through licensing and sold-out concerts. Worshipers come seeking a profound encounter with God and an ecstatic experience. That is often true for the performers as well.But when ministry, commerce, and relationships are blended, it can be hard for industry insiders to stay true to their craft – and to themselves. Such is the case for recording artist William Matthews, who wrote and recorded songs with Bethel Church, a large, influential charismatic congregation in Redding, California. William joined Katelyn and Roxy to discuss life in the performer spotlight, the physical, mental, and spiritual toll it takes, and what happens when you can no longer support the version of Christianity being taught from the stage.GUESTS:William Matthews is a singer songwriter and recording artist who currently serves as music director of New Abbey Church in LA. Learn more at his Spotify page.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

Is there any hope for toxic celebrity pastors?Stories abound of pastors who started to believe their own hype – and ended up capsizing their church and hurting a lot of people. There are spiritual and relational costs to putting leaders on pedestals.But celebrity dynamics also are bad for pastors themselves. Many find themselves “alone at the top,” without real friendship and accountability, which can foster various addictions and abuses. In the second episode of our summer series, Roxy and Katelyn are joined by spiritual formation expert Chuck DeGroat, who has counseled hundreds of pastors in crisis. Chuck explains what happens when leaders are put in the spotlight too young or for the wrong reasons, how narcissistic tendencies show up in the pastorate, the deployment of cheap grace, and how ministry leaders can start the inner work to heal – if they are willing.GUEST:Chuck DeGroat is professor of pastoral care and spirituality at Western Theological Seminary and author most recently of When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community from Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Learn more at ChuckDeGroat.net.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

On booty photos followed by Bible verses…It’s never been easier for women with massive talent to share their work and build a community around it. Social media have democratized the work of teaching and preaching. Instagram, with its aesthetic, aspirational vibes, has proven to be the most popular social media platform for Christian women influencers.In the first episode of a four-part summer series on celebrity in the church (also the topic of Katelyn’s new book), Roxy and Katelyn are joined by author Hannah Anderson to chat about the platform that’s equally fun and frustrating. Anderson helps unpack the unspoken rules that Christian women must follow to wield authority online. We’re tempted to roll our eyes at some of the rules (such as the ubiquity of beachy waves), but there’s a lot more at play: what Hannah Anderson calls women’s ‘superpower’ in building communities of women for good causes.GUESTS:Hannah Anderson is author of several books on spirituality, including the most recent All That’s Good: Recovering the Lost Art of Discernment. She is cohost of the Persuasion podcast, a great “thought leader” Twitter follow, and lives with her family in the Blue Ridge Mountains.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.