Saved by the City

It's an evangelical origin story.Who are the evangelicals? It's a contested question with a long history of answers — answers that depend largely on who is holding the mic at any given time.In this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy examine our own roles within the traditional gatekeeping institutions of evangelicalism and reflect on how we feel about them now. We are joined by Isaac B. Sharp for a tour of evangelicalism's defining decades and how the movement was shaped in part by who was kicked out.GUEST: Isaac B. Sharp is the author of the book "The Other Evangelicals: A Story of Liberal, Black, Progressive, Feminist, and Gay Christians — and the Movement that Pushed Them Out." He is a visiting assistant professor at Union Theological Seminary and the director of online and part-time programs there.

Maybe beauty could be a little less fleeting?This week, Katelyn and Roxy dive face-first into the prickly subject of cosmetic procedures. They're not just for Hollywood stars and Dallas housewives anymore. But just because everyone is getting a little work done, should we? Would the Proverbs 31 woman — the biblical model for all things feminine — go under the knife? The laser? The needle?All this, plus skin care guru Jamie B. Golden on the do's and don'ts (and maybes) on your dermatologist's extensive/expensive menu.GUEST: Jamie B. Golden is a podcaster (give a listen to "The Bible Binge" and "The Popcast") and a skin care enthusiast (check out her 10-step skin care routine).

Living large on the Lord.$150,000 on a three-day luxury retreat in Cancun. $37,000 on flowers. $13,000 on high tea. $16,000 on custom skateboards.These are just a few of the line items recently uncovered in Hillsong financial statements. Last month, a leader in Australia’s Parliament, armed with 17 binders full of documents, accused Hillsong leaders of breaking financial laws in Australia and beyond, specifically of fraud, money laundering and tax evasion.We figured: we've covered sex and power at Hillsong, seems about time to do money. On this week's episode, Katelyn and Roxy take a look at the sprawling implications of Hillsong's newest scandal — not just for the Australian megachurch, but for wealthy pastors everywhere.When it comes to luxury in the house of the Lord, turns out we've got a lot of thoughts.Plus, the results of a Twitter poll — because you all had plenty to say too!

Sometimes going through the motions is the whole point.On this episode, which drops amid Holy Week, Roxy and Katelyn reflect on the beauty, meaning, and mystery they have found in the church liturgy. Instead of feeling rote, the rhythms and prayers of the church have become nourishing for us. Kind of like a favorite meal. They are joined by the Most Rev. Michael Curry, the presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, the American branch of the Anglican Communion. He talks about his approach to evangelism, his hopes for the church as it could be facing schism, and how he tries to ask 'what would Jesus do?' even when the answer is rather annoying.GUEST: The Most Rev. Michael Curry is presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, the first person of color to serve in the role. He is an author, activist, and appeared on the global stage as he officiated Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's wedding in 2018.

But did the era of heroin chic ever really end?Low rise jeans are trying to make a comeback — does that mean the bodies that look good in them must too? (Aka: teensy tiny itty bitty very flat stomach bodies.)On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore how the body ideals promoted during our teen years are still informing the way we see our adult bodies. We look at how some things have changed — because there has been some progress! — and how others have stayed frustratingly toxic. Plus, we're joined by Cole Arthur Riley for a lovely conversation on how attending to our flesh and blood bodies can help us heal inside and out.GUEST:Cole Arthur Riley is a writer and poet and the creator of the Black Liturgies project. She is also the author of the NY Times bestseller "This Here Flesh: Spirituality, Liberation, and the Stories that Make Us."  

Let's get a drink sometime!New York's a drinking town. Happy hours. Boozy brunches. Martinis and oysters. The city's social life revolves around artisan cocktails and bubbly toasts and late night dive bars. And while the pandemic may have put a screeching halt to the social side of that life, it didn't stop the flow of booze. Restaurants offered craft cocktails to go, the sidewalks became open carry and delivery drinks were an app away. Drinking went from social to solo and it was during that time that both Katelyn and Roxy began to wonder if all this imbibing was really OK.On this episode, we examine our relationships with alcohol and the changes we've made since the pandemic. We're joined by Sarah Bessey — a self-described "evangelist" for the sober life — who gave up drinking a few years ago and hasn't looked back since.GUEST Sarah Bessey is the author of several books, including Jesus Feminist and the co-founder of the Evolving Faith conference. You can read her weekly musings at her substack: Sarah Bessey's Field Notes.  

Watch out for the Cabbage Patch Kids!Katelyn and Roxy are back for a new season of Saved By the City and are joined by guest Jinger Duggar Vuolo. Listeners may know her as one of the siblings on the reality TV show “19 Kids and Counting," or maybe from the "Free Jinger" movement online.In addition to her childhood being well-documented, Jinger also grew up within a Christian movement that was, shall we say, a bit … strict. As followers of Bill Gothard and his Institute of Basic Life Principles, the Duggars emphasized modesty, submission to authority and, uh, avoiding music with a worldly beat.On this episode, Jinger shares how she has stayed Christian even as she's attempted to separate God from the fundamentalism she grew up with.Plus: Katelyn's got a pop quiz for Roxy! And we ponder our prospects as reality TV stars.GUEST:Jinger Duggar Vuolo is the sixth child in the Duggar family, featured on TLC's "19 Kids and Counting." She is the author of the new book "Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith From Fear."

Happy holidays!In New York City, the phrase has nothing to do with a culture war and everything to do with being a good neighbor. A recent NY Times article describes the city as "a swirling kaleidoscope of faiths," and living within that colorful milieu has profoundly shaped our posture toward other religions. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy discuss the ways New York City has exposed us to the beauty and wisdom of other faith traditions, while introducing us to the importance of interfaith work in a country that will come to more and more resemble the pluralism of our city.We are joined by Simran Jeet Singh, a fellow transplant to New York, who is dedicated to anti-racism and interfaith cooperation. As a Sikh, Singh knows what it's like to be the minority at the interfaith table and has helpful insights into how Christians, as the majority, can be good partners and allies.GUEST:  Simran Jeet Singh is executive director for the Aspen Institute’s Religion and Society Program, an RNS columnist, and author of the book "The Light We Give: How Sikh Wisdom Can Transform Your Life."

The year is not over yet but we're ready to hand in the verdict.This week, Katelyn and Roxy reflect on the year that was 2022 (better than 2020!) and share some highlights and lowlights in various categories. Favorite book? Check. Favorite TV show? Yep. Favorite friendship moment? Yes please. Strangest thing you saw on the subway? Of course.Plus, we share some goals for ourselves — and the podcast! — as we look toward 2023.

It's been 2000 years. Enough already.Abusing power is an ancient genre of sin — and using religion to justify abuse is perhaps the oldest trick in that book. We know it won't stop with this podcast episode, but, here we go anyway. Katelyn and Roxy address some of the difficulties of identifying spiritual abuse (no, it isn't just "church hurt") and examine how it has manifested in a few more recent and notable scandals. Veteran psychologist and expert on religious trauma, Diane Langberg, joins the episode and helps put the "pastoral" back in the pulpit.GUEST:Diane Langberg is a psychologist with more than 50 years of experience working with trauma survivors. She’s the author most recently of "Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church."