Spiritual Life and Leadership

Terry Walling is Founder and President of Leader Breakthru and the author of Unlikely Nomads. In this episode, Terry Walling shares about people he calls “nomads.”  They love Jesus, but they don’t love the more traditional expressions of the church.  They want to be part of the church, but the way most of our churches are structured isn’t life-giving for them.Terry and I reflect together on what a “nomad” is, what “nomads” are longing for, and how churches like yours and mine can love and bless “nomads” as they seek to live out their love for Jesus.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Terry Walling expresses his passion for mentoring leaders who are willing to take risks within the kingdom.He reflects on his own transformation from pastor to leadership development expert during a significant transition period.Walling shares humorous anecdotes from his pastoring days, particularly while presiding over the church his parents attended.Terry Walling discusses the shift from traditional programmatic church models to environments that foster safe and meaningful community connections.Terry Walling believes that church expressions are changing, with "Unlikely Nomads" capturing this evolutionary process.Walling advises the church to unlearn old paradigms and embrace new ones to stay relevant and effective.He emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for community interaction over adherence to traditional programmatic structures.The concept of a "bridging church" is presented as a means to help individuals reintegrate into their local communities.Terry Walling speaks about "unlikely nomads" within the church who seek a more profound journey with God and authenticity in their faith.He discusses the challenge of transforming church structures and the need to focus on personal renewal before organizational change.Terry Walling proposes that a shift towards personal discipleship can lead the way for structural transformations within the church.Markus Watson and Terry Walling hosts highlight the gradual, faithful process required for becoming more genuine followers of Jesus.They discuss the relevance of learning from those who have left the church to gain a broader understanding of faith and community.Walling and Watson emphasize the importance of not forcing individuals to conform to existing church expressions, but to have open conversations.The conversation delves into the difficulties church leaders face when adapting to evolving congregational expectations and societal shifts.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINK:Terry Walling:Leader BreakthruPodcast - The Nomad ChroniclesBooks mentioned:Unlikely Nomads, by Terry WallingStuck, by Terry WallingSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson unpack a powerful quote from Steve Carter, "You only learn resilience through the fire and through the suffering." This quote emerged from Steve Carter's experience of letting go of everything he had known and worked towards when he offered his resignation from a church leadership position in the wake of abuse allegations against the senior pastor, Bill Hybels. From this, the conversation explores the concept of resilience and how leaders are formed in the crucible of change and suffering. Tod Bolsinger draws from his work in Tempered Resilience to discuss the importance of reflection, relationships, and spiritual practices in developing resilience in the face of suffering.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Markus Watson in Episode 163, You Can't Be Found if You're Never Lost :“You only learn resilience through the fire and through the suffering.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders develop resilience through facing the crucible of change and suffering.Reflecting, nurturing relationships, and spiritual practices are essential in developing resilience.Steve Carter's quote emphasizes the importance of willingly engaging with suffering to learn resilience.Formative leadership happens when individuals courageously face challenges, seeking growth amidst suffering.Resilience isn't just about enduring hardship, it's about embracing reflective practices and nurturing supportive relationships.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Daniel Lee is the academic dean for the Center for Asian American Theology and Ministry at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of Doing Asian American Theology.Daniel Lee discusses the fact that each of us does theology from a particular persepective.  Recognizing our own "particularities" makes us far better leaders.  Why?  Because the more we are aware of our own cultural particularities, the more we become competent as leaders in regard to one another's cultural particularities.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Daniel Lee discusses the idea of God transcending divisive issues and the theological basis for God's perception of people.Daniel Lee initially saw his Korean heritage as baggage and tried to shed his cultural identity for a more generic evangelical perspective, but later realized the importance of embracing his Asian American identity in relation to his faith and theology.Initially resistant to being an Asian American theologian, Daniel Lee eventually embraced the need to articulate and address the significance of his cultural identity in his theological work.Daniel Lee points out that everyone has their own perspective and that when some perspectives become normalized, others are seen as abnormal. This issue exists in society and churches.Lee highlights the absence of modern-day race in the Bible and emphasizes the interaction between God and individuals, suggesting God's unique interaction with each person.Daniel Lee compares Asian American theology to the witness of God found in the gospels, emphasizing that theology is contextual and filtered through human perspective.It is important to recognize theology from an Asian American perspective and to witness to the one God collectively, while acknowledging that different perspectives yield a robust understanding of God.Ministry leaders need to move beyond crude stereotypes depicted in pop culture and gain a deeper understanding of colonial history and community-specific challenges.It is so important to gain more vocabulary and knowledge about different communities.  We also need humility and adaptiveness when interacting with individuals and communities.Both Daniel Lee and Markus Watson talk about the importance of discerning and joining in with what God is doing within communities.It is important to understand particularity in theology, as well as apply ministry in specific and precise ways rather than using a generic approach.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Daniel Lee:Center for Asian American Theology and MinistryBooks mentioned:Doing Asian American Theology, by Daniel LeeDoing Local Theology, by Clemens SedmakChurch Leadership InstituteRelated Episodes:Episode 173: The Art of Interpreting Culture, with Justin BaileyEpisode 167: Called to Each Other, with Claude AlexanderEpisode 149: Ministry Leadership in a Racialized SociSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore a powerful quote from Lisa Lamb: "An abdication of leadership is also an abuse of leadership." Lisa's perspective as a preaching professor adds a unique angle to the discussion, highlighting the responsibility of leaders to recognize and respond to the needs they see in the world. Tod shares insights from his experience, emphasizing the collaborative nature of leadership in calling for change and transformation.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Lisa Lamb in Episode 161: Preaching for Deep Connection:“An abdication of leadership is also an abuse of leadership.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Abdicating leadership responsibilities is an abuse of leadership.Stepping into places of pain and taking responsibility is true leadership.Leadership is about convening people and inviting them to make a difference.Preaching serves leadership by calling people to take responsibility for change.Leadership in a changing world is a collaborative experience that involves using the preaching moment to call people to take responsibility for transformation.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

In this conversation, Adam McHugh, the author of Blood From a Stone, opens up about his transition from ministry as a hospice chaplain to the world of wine, becoming a wine tour guide and sommelier.  Adam shares about the emotional rollercoaster that goes along with redefining one's identity and faith outside of traditionally established ministry roles.For pastors and ministry leaders struggling with letting go of their church-centered identities, or struggling with transitioning in the way they are called to lead in a constantly changing world, this conversation will encourage you to lean into the patience and the inner transformation needed to live and lead in new ways.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Adam McHugh shares his journey from ministry to a new career path, reflecting on the difficulty and fear associated with such a transition.Markus Watson and Adam McHugh explore the prevalence of compassion fatigue among pastors and chaplains, acknowledging the personal toll it takes.The conversation touches on the struggle to redefine personal identity and faith when moving beyond traditional pastoral roles.Adam McHugh recounts his impactful experiences as a hospice chaplain and how they shaped his sense of self and faith.Adam and Markus delve into the "dark night of the soul," discussing the profound search for authenticity amidst life's challenges.Adam McHugh describes his transition from being a pastor and chaplain to a sommelier and wine tour guide, revealing a new chapter of his life.Adam McHugh articulates the struggle of identity and the transformation he underwent from Reverend to sommelier, framing it as an evolution of his humanity.Adam McHugh and Markus Watson emphasize the necessity of acknowledging the end of one life phase before embracing a new one, underscoring the importance of the internal transition process.Markus Watson adds insight into the stress associated with pastoral duties and the importance of embracing one's humanity over a clerical role.Adam McHugh advises pastors grappling with identity transitions to be patient and considerate of the internal processes involved.The discussion reveals Adam McHugh's tumultuous shift from a pastoral identity to embracing a new community and profession.Markus Watson speaks to the ongoing journey of transformation, underscoring the significance of patience and being shaped by God's hand.Adam McHugh advises embracing patience during the difficult process of identity transition, recognizing that it is a part of the continual path of transformation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Adam McHugh:Email – adammchugh@gmail.comInstagram - @adammchughwineInterVarsity Press bioBooks mentioned:Blood From a Stone, by Adam McHughPowers and Thrones, by Dan JonesManaging Transitions, by William BridgesRelated Episodes:Ep. 142: Navigating the 7 Stages of Transition, with D. Michael LindsaySend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the transformative power of vocation and its integral role in God's mission. They emphasize that every person's calling is important, whether paid or unpaid, and involves hearing God's voice. The podcast explores how vocation shapes our identity, spiritual formation, and the overall mission of the church.

When I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2022, it was something I had been longing to do for years.  After a fairly traumatic experience at a church I'd been serving, the thought of just walking with Jesus for an extended time felt like exactly what I needed.I walked the Camino together with Jon Huckins, the founder and Director of Journey Home.  In this episode, Jon unpacks why pilgrimmage is so meaningful and how it can help those of us in leadership to be our best selves for the sake of those we're leading, for the world, and for ourselves.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jon Huckins is founder and Director of Journey Home and is adjunct professor of New Testament at Point Loma Nazarene University.Jon Huckins describes the transition to the second half of life as a shift from doing to being and embracing one's identity as deeply loved by God.The Camino de Santiago pilgrimage is presented as a crucial tool for self-reflection, challenging external expectations, and engaging spiritual awakening.The transition from leading Global Immersion to starting Journey Home reflects Huckins' focus on facilitating societal and individual healing.Jon Huckins shares the profound influence the Camino pilgrimage has had on his ministry and his dedication to the work of peacemaking.The Camino serves as a means for intentional dislocation to face oneself and the authentic realitiies of life.Huckins comments on the distinct challenges faced by pastors and ministry leaders in an era where their conventional roles are questioned.Pilgrimage, according to Jon Huckins, is linked to the process of acknowledging and grieving loss, while also confronting the resistance to change in our ministries.Becoming second-half-of-life individuals allows for more resilience and a generous, open-hearted approach to leadership.Jon Huckins emphasizes the significance of spaces like the Camino for transformation, focusing on experiencing rather than decision-making.Jon Huckins highlights the transformative power of being fully present and releasing control, as experienced on the Camino.The mission of Journey Home aims to facilitate pilgrimages that act as vehicles for healing and development for leaders.Jon Huckins stresses the importance of pilgrimages like the Camino in aiding Christian leaders through their spiritual and emotional development.The challenges of ministry require spaces and practices that support healing and rejuvenation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:JourneyHome:Website – Journeyhome.infoInstagram - @journey_home_pilgrimagesBooks mentioned:Falling Upward, by Richard RohrLeadership on the Line, by Ronald HeifetzRelated episodes:Ep 163: You Can’t Be Found if You’re Never Lost, with Steve CarterEp 112: TheSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the concept of disequilibrium and its impact on systems, leadership, and organizational health. They discuss how prolonged equilibrium can be detrimental to a system's ability to adapt and innovate, and how crises and moments of disequilibrium can actually reveal underlying problems and present opportunities for growth and change. Drawing from experiences and examples, they highlight the potential for systems and individuals to become stronger, more resilient, and healthier due to the experience of disequilibrium.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Markus Watson in Episode 139: Disequilibrium and the Mission of God :"When a system experiences disequilibrium, the system has the opportunity to become stronger, to become more resilient, and even to become healthier." THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Experiencing disequilibrium allows a system to become stronger, more resilient, and healthier.Prolonged equilibrium can lead to a loss of ability to adapt.Crises reveal opportunities to hit the organizational reset button and address underlying issues.Disequilibrium can lead to increased capacity and clarity in dealing with crisis and making hard decisions.Disequilibrium or crisis provides opportunities to make a system stronger.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Would your neighborhood even notice if your church ceased to exist?  I imagine that’s a question many of us have thought about.  Maybe you’ve even posed that question to your congregation.Maybe the question should be, as churches, how do we become more present to our neighborhood.?  That’s what I talk about in this episode with my guest, Tim Soerens, the author of Everywhere You Look: Discovering the Church Right Where You Are.Tim walks us through his shift from wanting to be a big church pastor to learning what it means to truly embody the Christian narrative in our neighborhoods. And he helps us better understand the concept of a parish and what it means to have a “minimum viable presence” in your community.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tim Soerens emphasizes the need to listen and understand the specific hopes and dreams God has for both communities and individuals.He advises on discerning how to actively address the particular needs and challenges within a neighborhood or parish.The conversation delves into determining a parish's boundaries, considering factors like centers of activity, edges, and resident affiliation.Soerens notes the complexities in identifying a parish in suburban and rural settings, influenced by architectural designs and local governance.Markus Watson discusses the varied needs of communities in serving their neighborhoods effectively.Tim Soerens suggests congregations often comprise multiple parishes, sparking discussion on discerning their locations.Soerens introduces the idea of a 'minimum viable presence' for church experimentation, akin to the business concept of a 'minimum viable product.'He highlights the value of small, experimental initiatives to understand better what works in community outreach.The discussion encourages involving others in these small experiments and celebrating the courage it takes to try new approaches.They stress the freedom to experiment without the fear of failure, emphasizing that each community requires a tailored approach.Soerens recommends starting outreach efforts with curiosity, prayer, and involving others in experimental activities.Tim Soerens shares insights into The Parish Collective's mission and upcoming events, inviting listeners to connect.He recounts a pivotal interaction with Michael Frost that steered him away from preaching-centric community formation to joining what God is already doing.The conversation touches on the formation of The Parish Collective, which encourages congregations to align their ecclesial life around joining God's work.Soerens advocates for a vision of the church that transcends Sunday services, focusing instead on being actively involved in God's hopes and dreams for neighborhoods.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Parish Collective WebsiteBooks Mentioned:Everywhere You Look, by Tim SoerensRelated episodes:Episode 129: Recalibrating the Church Around Jesus, with Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch Episode 185: From Sunday Services to Real TrSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Get Becoming Leaders of Shalom for free HERE.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the technological challenges faced by congregations during the pandemic. They discuss a quote from Scott Thumma about the hybrid and customizable nature of the world and its implications for congregations. Tod shares insights on the importance of aligning values with technological adaptations, the decreasing willingness to change post-pandemic, and the need for enduring long-term adaptation. Together, they discuss practical strategies for pastors to navigate these challenges and ensure congregations reflect the ever-changing world.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scott Thumma in Episode 198: Clergy, Congregations, and Hope After the Pandemic:“Our world is customizable. It is on demand.  It is hybrid.  It’s virtual as much as it is in person. In the rest of our lives we’ve come to understand that’s how the rest of the world works. So, we really have to think about how do we make our congregations reflect that.” THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Scott Thumma suggests that our world has become customizable, on-demand, and virtual, and calls for congregations to reflect the changes in the wider world.Tod Bolsinger emphasizes that adaptive leadership is not just about technical solutions, but about values, behaviors, and attitudes.The decrease in people's willingness to adapt beyond the crisis is observed, signifying the tendency to revert to the familiar when the crisis has passed.Wise and enduring change requires self-reflection and a shift from short-term crisis adaptations to long-term adaptation in a changing environment.Tod Bolsinger recommends that congregations start by identifying their deepest values and then being willing to change everything else to align with those values.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.