Spiritual Life and Leadership

Josh Hayden, the author of Remissioning Church: A Field guide for Bringing a Congregation Back to Life, shares wisdom from his own journey—moving from church planting to leading a 158-year-old congregation—and he helps us understand the difference between revitalization and remissioning.  He also talks about the power of what he calls “creative destruction” and reflects on the hope that churches and people really can change. If you are a ministry leader wondering how to lead your church through deep transformation and discovering a renewed mission, you’ll find both encouragement and practical guidance in this conversation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Josh Hayden explains that remissioning involves inside-out transformation of the church through discipleship for the sake of neighbors and the world.Revitalization focuses on refreshing existing programs, while remissioning addresses deeper, DNA-level transformation.Josh Hayden underscores the importance of listening first—both to the church and the neighborhood—before making plans for change.Markus Watson highlights the challenge new pastors face in established churches, including resistance, sabotage, and managing change.Remissioning leaders must exegete both their congregation and their community to identify gaps and opportunities for meaningful connection.Josh Hayden stresses that successful remissioning requires teamwork; pastors must not attempt change alone.Markus Watson reflects on the emotional challenges of change, including the shame spiral that can occur when a church confronts its shortcomings.Josh Hayden illustrates the shame spiral with an example of unnoticed “No Running in the Halls” signs that undermined stated values of hospitality.Remissioning involves inviting the congregation into a process of repentance, learning, and transformation, rather than imposing outside solutions.Josh Hayden shares how tradition-to-innovation means honoring a church’s history while translating it into practices that serve current needs.Experiments in ministry should create shared experiences that allow for evaluation, learning, and adaptation over time.Josh Hayden describes creative destruction as embracing necessary endings so new life can emerge, drawing analogy from nature and industry.Effective change involves creating feedback loops, town hall conversations, and allowing time for the congregation to process and adapt.Not all experiments or changes need to succeed; failed experiments still provide valuable lessons for ongoing transformation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Josh Hayden:Iwa Collabora websiteBooks mentioned:Remissioning Church, by Josh HaydenCanoeing the Mountains, by Tod BolsingerRelated episodes:16. Canoeing the Mountains, with Tod Bolsinger192. Leading Change Without Authority, with Roy Inzunza264. Building a Future-Focused Church, with Kara Powell, Jake Mulder, and Raymond ChangSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger unpack the fascinating connection between the Latin roots of “prayer” and “precarious”—suggesting that it’s often in our most uncertain moments that we’re drawn into deeper dependence on God. Together, they explore how precarious situations not only shape our leadership but also form and mature our prayer lives. You’ll also hear practical wisdom on leading others in prayer through times of change and how discernment, rather than just asking God to bless our plans, is central to a healthy approach to leadership.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jeff Hoffmeyer in Ep. 246: Have We Forgotten to Pray?:"The Latin word for prayer is the same root for ‘precarious’. So, I think when we're in a precarious situation, God's desire is that we'll be driven to dependence on prayer."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders cultivate their prayer lives in the midst of precarious situations.Leaders experience spiritual formation when they become aware of their dependence on God.Leaders guide their congregations into discernment by seeking God’s voice together.Leaders model a deep prayer life by honestly acknowledging their limitations.Leaders resist making plans independently and instead invite God to direct their path.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

For a lot of us, evangelism has become kind of utilitarian—just another tool to stop our church’s decline and hopefully secure a future for our congregation. But what if, instead of simply trying to grow our numbers or help people go to heaven when they die, we reframed evangelism as an act of journeying alongside people in their deepest pain, bringing truly good news to those who are struggling to find hope?In this episode, Andrew Root, the author of Evangelism in an Age of Despair, challenges us to rethink evangelism as a ministry of consolation—a ministry that meets people where they are, in moments of suffering and loneliness.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Andrew Root defines what he means by "the age of despair" and whose despair he references.Andrew Root explains that despair is a widespread cultural malaise, marked by sadness, unhappiness, and a rise in loneliness and rage.Despair in the world is not just circumstantial, but is rooted in the cultural emphasis on pursuing happiness, which ironically increases unhappiness.Andrew Root describes two forms of despair in the church: one shared with the wider culture, and the other, a fear of decline and extinction unique to congregations.Churches are tempted to view evangelism mainly as a way to increase attendance and avoid closing, rather than as sharing good news.Markus Watson reflects that treating evangelism as a utilitarian tool for survival creates questions about the real motivation for sharing the gospel.Evangelism should be understood as contextual and as a way of consoling neighbors in moments of loss, rather than following a fixed formula.Andrew Root states that the central work of evangelism involves the theology of consolation—being present with others in their brokenness and grief.Evangelism is about responding to Jesus’s call and helping people encounter Him, especially within their contexts of sorrow and loneliness.Andrew Root discusses the failure of social media and modern culture to offer true consolation or presence to people in grief.Consolation involves walking with people through suffering, which is an important aspect of Christian tradition and a necessity in these lonely times.Markus Watson observes that the traditional “four spiritual laws” approach doesn’t address the needs of people experiencing profound sorrow.Andrew Root argues that faithfulness in the church is not simply measured by numerical growth, and that addressing people’s suffering is not a distraction from its mission.Evangelism should invite people to join a pilgrimage, walking together through sorrow and loss toward a deeper encounter with God.The church’s calling is to create communities that walk with others in their pain, offering hope and the presence of Christ, instead of merely aiming for church growth.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Andrew Root:WebsiteBooks mentioned:Evangelism in an Age of Despair, by Andrew Root The Church After Innovation, by Andrew Root The Promise of Despair, by Andrew Root Related episodes:147. IsSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

In this episode, Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger explore what it really means to lead with care—especially when consensus isn’t possible and someone might get hurt. Tod brings his insight on adaptive leadership, highlighting the tension between seeking unity and making tough, missional choices that can disappoint or cause pain. Together, Markus and Tod reflect on how Jesus modeled mission-centered leadership, caring for people while staying true to his calling—even when it meant letting others down.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Marc Schelske in Ep. 258: Walking the Path of Other-Centered Leadership:“If I really love all the people that are impacted by this decision, then this decision has to be consensual."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders foster togetherness when they involve everyone in the decision-making process.Healthy leadership accepts that some decisions will inevitably cause pain or disappointment.Groups achieve consensus when everyone commits to follow the chosen path, even amidst disagreement.Leadership requires balancing love for people with dedication to the organization's mission.Leaders best serve their communities when they offer care to those most affected by painful decisions.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

What does ministry look like when your church gathers at the very place that’s meant to divide? In this episode, Seth Clark invites us into the powerful story of The Border Church, where the simple act of worship confronts separation with the radical unity of God’s love, and where he and his congregants—on both sides of the wall—have had to adapt to a reality in which the powers make it harder and harder for them to worship together.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Seth Clark describes the Border Church as a practice of publicly experiencing God's presence and unity at a site of division.The Border Church centers its ministry around sharing holy communion as a visible act of God’s love in a divided context.Seth Clark explains how families from both sides have long used Friendship Park to connect despite restrictive border policies.Border Church started as periodic communion services at the border and gradually grew into a more structured worship community.Seth Clark recounts the agreement that allowed Friendship Park to open for limited hours on weekends, enabling regular gatherings.Physical barriers at the border forced participants to adapt, sharing only a pinky touch through the mesh as a sign of peace.Leadership of the Border Church came by community discernment when the founding pastor stepped down, Seth Clark shares.Border Church functions without a traditional building, requiring creative leadership and adaptability in its pastoral approach.The COVID-19 pandemic and persistent border lockdowns have forced the church to continually reinvent how it worships and connects.Seth Clark highlights the shift of pastoral needs toward the Mexico side as waves of migrants and asylum seekers increased.Border Church supports partnerships with local shelters, providing meals and spiritual care for migrants waiting at the border.Markus Watson explores the deep sense of loss, frustration, and adaptation that accompanies changes to how the Border Church operates.Seth Clark emphasizes the importance of faithfulness over visible results, especially when facing circumstances beyond one’s control.Leading through loss involves distinguishing between what can and cannot be changed, and supporting people in navigating change and grief.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:The Border Church:FacebookInstagram - @theborderchurchBooks mentioned:Church at the Wall, by Seth ClarkRelated episodes:88. The Border Church, with Seth Clark119. Being Leaders of Grace in a Divided World, with Kirsten Powers120. Forming Leadership Resilience, with Tod BolsingerSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

This conversation reflects on the urgent need for genuine transformation in the church, rather than simply tweaking what isn’t working. Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the signs that point to deeper issues—like plateauing membership, aging congregations, and stagnating giving—and why now is the time for a true “hero’s journey” of change, not just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Rex Miller in Ep. 254: Digital Disruption and the Future of the Church:"There are some telltale signs that it's time to go on a hero's journey. One telltale sign is we're plateauing in our membership. Or our members are getting older.  Or our giving is plateauing. Now is not the time to try to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Church leaders recognize critical signs—like plateauing membership, aging congregations, and stagnant giving—that indicate the need for deep transformation.Leaders create only superficial change when they settle for “rearranging the chairs on the Titanic” instead of tackling the root issues.Effective leadership requires admitting when you don’t know what to do and being willing to learn all over again.Leaders lose key, healthy members when they make ministry primarily about themselves rather than about something greater.Transformation happens when leaders embrace adaptive change, let go of their expertise, and journey into new ways of leading.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Shalom is a biblical concept that goes far beyond our usual understanding of “peace.” It’s about healing, fulfillment, and every part of life coming together as God intended. For ministry leaders, this vision of shalom changes everything about how we lead, serve, and even think about the mission of the church.In this episode, Terry A. Smith, author of The Lord Give You Peace, explores what shalom really means, why it’s at the heart of God’s mission, and how we as ministry leaders can become bringers of Shalom in and beyond our churches.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson invites Terry A. Smith to share how the concept of shalom became important in his life and faith.Terry A. Smith explains that encountering Tim Keller’s writing helped him see shalom as the way God intended things to be.Shalom means more than just "peace"—it encompasses wholeness, flourishing, harmony, prosperity, and well-being.Terry A. Smith describes shalom as holistic well-being, productive flourishing, and happy fulfillment.Shalom involves every dimension of life: psychological, spiritual, physical, and relational wellness.Flourishing in shalom is not passive but should lead to positive, productive fruit in the world.Fulfillment includes experiencing deep happiness and contentment rooted in hope and connection with God.Markus Watson reflects that God’s mission for Creation is to restore shalom on every level—between humans and God, with each other, within ourselves, and with creation.Terry A. Smith affirms that the presence of brokenness and lack of shalom is due to the fall and the "vandalization" of God’s intentions.People can still taste and participate in shalom, even while living in a broken world.Terry A. Smith highlights that many biblical promises of shalom are directed at people in exile or less-than-ideal circumstances, encouraging hope and action.The church’s calling includes being a model of unity and peace, creating opportunities for shalom in relationships and community.Terry A. Smith describes his church’s intentional pursuit of diversity, unity, and partnership with local organizations as active shalom-making.Creating an environment of hospitable leadership fosters a culture where people and their God-given dreams flourish.Leaders who embody shalom can better guide others through change, adversity, and growth by bringing wholeness and well-being into every situation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Website – terryasmith.comThe Life Christian ChurchBooks mentioned:The Lord Give You Peace, by Terry A. SmithNot the Way It’s Supposed to Be, by Cornelius Plantinga, Jr.The Hospitable Leader, by Terry A. SmithRelated episodes:134. How to Help Your City Thrive, with Amy Sherman140. Bathed in Grace, with Matt Tebbe and Ben Sternke157. Seamless Leadership, with Steve GarberSend me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

This episode explores the critical role awareness plays in avoiding burnout and fostering healthy leadership practices. Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss personal anecdotes and practical strategies to cultivate awareness, so we can better navigate the challenges that come our way. Whether you're leading a team or just trying to lead a more intentional life, this conversation is packed with insights to help you break free from autopilot mode and make mindful adjustments for a more effective and fulfilling leadership journey.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jonathan Hoover in Ep. 254: Endless Expectations and Emotional Exhaustion:“Awareness is a precursor to adjustment.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Awareness aids leaders in recognizing when they approach burnout.Well-trained leaders naturally navigate crises using second nature skills.Developing awareness prompts leaders to stop, assess shifts, and adjust effectively.Noticing emotions or bodily sensations signals leaders to pause and reflect.Naming issues in a room empowers leaders to identify and implement adjustments.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Is the future of the church something to look forward to, or does it scare you to death.  Thriving into the future will require change, and the idea of changing the way we lead, or the way we do church, or the people we reach out to, can feel overwhelming.  Even if we want to do it, where do we even start?In this episode, Kara Powell, Jake Mulder, and Raymond Chang share insights from their new book, Future Focused Church, where they explore adaptive leadership and offer practical tools to help ministry leaders guide their congregations through meaningful transformation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Kara Powell asserts that the best days of the church are ahead despite current challenges.Kara Powell credits her optimism for the church’s future to her theology and understanding of God’s goodness.Church leaders should focus on the three checkpoints: relationally discipling young people, modeling kingdom diversity, and tangibly loving their neighbors.Jake Mulder explains the concept of a journey in church change, emphasizing the importance of checkpoints along the way.Jake Mulder lists the four zones of church change as here, there, who, and how.Jake Mulder states that a majority of change efforts fail due to outdated approaches and skills.Transformation in the church should not be a solo effort and requires a diverse transformation team, as Jake Mulder explains.Raymond Chang highlights how experimenting from the edges with small changes can lead to progress without being too disruptive.Churches often suffer from a lack of follow-through rather than a dramatic flaw when trying to implement change.Raymond Chang highlights the sons of Issachar as an example of understanding the times and discerning God’s direction.Maintaining disciplined attention is crucial, as Kara Powell emphasizes, to ensure cultural change efforts do not falter.Jake Mulder shares the importance of a diverse transformation team of five to twelve people representing different perspectives for effective guidance in church change.Jake Mulder notes that the process of church change is not about where leaders want to go, but where God is leading.The journey between a church’s current state and its future should begin with gathering the right team of people.Kara Powell shares an example where a church emphasizes youth engagement through consistent, simple actions like attending youth events.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Future-Focused Church websiteBooks mentioned:Future-Focused Church, by Kara Powel, Jake Mulder, and Ray ChangRelated episodes:222. Building a Multi-Inclusive Church, with Efrem Smith and Dan Kreiss242. Life and Leadership in the Fog, with Michaela O’Donnell and Lisa Slayton256. Digital Disruption Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss insights on the importance of developing leaders who are skilled in curious listening and creating a collaborative environment where ideas are shared and valued. The conversation uncovers how shifting from monologue to dialogue can not only empower communities but also lead to more meaningful adaptive leadership in times of change.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scot McKnight in Ep 250, The Prophetic Challenge of Deconstruction:“The evangelical world does not have a culture of conversation.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders improve their effectiveness by first listening before proclaiming.Sharing leadership with a team fosters better decision-making through collaboration.Engaging in conversations helps leaders adapt to situations without clear solutions.Encouraging conversations empowers groups by promoting shared ownership.Feeling heard validates individuals and supports their faith journey.Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.