What makes an organisation toxic, and how can we spot the signs before it’s too late? What are the common traits that make seemingly unrelated organisations, ranging from the Catholic Church to corporations, do harm?On this episode, I’m joined once again by one of my favourite guests — Professor Benjamin van Rooij — for a deep dive into the hidden dangers of organisational life.Benjamin and his co-author, Professor Nicholas Lord, are working on a new book (working title) Toxic: Organisations Gone Bad, which explores not just headline-grabbing scandals, but the patterns of behaviour and structures that consistently lead organisations to cause harm.SummaryIn our discussion, we unpack how organisational processes — like silencing, secrecy, and the relentless pursuit of unrealistic goals — can multiply risk.Benjamin explains why organisations, both public and private, can become “toxic” not simply due to bad people or poor oversight, but because of a combination of systemic dynamics and cultural norms that reward silence, over-ambition, and passive harm.We also discuss why the term “toxic” itself is both useful and problematic, and how understanding these dynamics can help leaders make better decisions before disaster strikes; whether it’s Facebook’s role in spreading misinformation, Wells Fargo’s aggressive sales targets, or the normalization of deviance at Chernobyl and Enron, Benjamin helps us trace the common threads that connect seemingly unrelated crises.And, true to form, he doesn’t offer simplistic solutions — instead, he gives us tools to ask better questions, challenge dominant narratives, and push for root-cause thinking over box-ticking fixes. Guest Biography Benjamin is Professor in Law and Society and Director of Research at the School of Law at the University of Amsterdam, as well as a Global Professor of Law at the University of California, Irvine.In his academic work, Benjamin specialises in understanding how laws and regulations operate within real-world organisational settings, focusing on compliance, harm, and institutional accountability. He blends criminology, behavioural science, and legal studies to explore why people and institutions obey (or disobey) rules, and what systems best support ethical behaviour.  Previous appearancesOn COVID Compliance 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-1/On Questioning Compliance 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-questioning-compliance/On The Behavioral Code 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on/On Compliance 2.0 with Professor Danny Sokol 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-benjamin-van-rooij/On Measuring Compliance with Professor Melissa Rorie 🎧 👉  https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-melissa-rorie-benjamin-van-rooij-on-measuring-compliance/LinksBenjamin's profile at UVA: https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html?cbThe Behavior Code: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/676270/the-behavioral-code-by-benjamin-van-rooij-and-adam-fine/AI Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction to toxic organisations and examples from Netflix-level scandals[00:01:00] Benjamin van Rooij’s background and new book with Nicholas Lord[00:03:00] Organisations as multipliers of harm, active vs passive harm[00:04:00] The inductive approach — identifying patterns across scandals[00:05:00] Why the term “toxic” is used despite its flaws[00:06:00] How scandals like VW, Enron, and Boeing capture our imagination[00:07:00] How the media and society react to scandals: harm → individuals → system[00:08:00] Bad apples vs the “orchard” — systems shaping behaviour[00:10:00] Connecting dots across different kinds of organisations[00:11:00] Organisational secrecy and silencing — beyond simple fear[00:13:00] Examples: Chernobyl, 3M, Enron — passive and active silencing[00:14:00] Leadership failure patterns — neglect and irresponsibility[00:15:00] Identifying patterns through reading, criminology, and org science[00:16:00] How case studies were selected and why some were excluded[00:19:00] Similar patterns across companies, churches, and political parties[00:20:00] Book opens with contrast: Communist Party famine vs Purdue Pharma[00:21:00] Unrealistic targets — why they’re the most important insight[00:23:00] The mismatch between organisational goals and available means[00:25:00] Scale and complexity: why modern orgs are different[00:28:00] Limitations of simple solutions — complexity and nuance matter[00:29:00] Leaders must balance ambition and safety, long-term vs short-term[00:30:00] Why most harmful processes aren’t illegal — and that’s the problem[00:32:00] Comparing organisational toxicity to viruses — some survive, some don’t[00:34:00] Groupthink and cultural dynamics — the dangers of agreement[00:36:00] Asking questions as a powerful organisational intervention[00:38:00] Why we often don’t know what’s bad for us — lacking language or insight[00:41:00] Empowering employees to ask the right questions backed by theory[00:42:00] Why short-term thinking is embedded in systems and markets[00:45:00] The overuse and misuse of “culture” as an explanation[00:47:00] The need for genuine root-cause analysis[00:48:00] Compliance playbooks vs reality — solutions don’t always fit[00:51:00] The gap between what we do and what works — “compliance theatre”[00:54:00] Good times can sow the seeds of harm — ambition blinds risk[00:56:00] Organisations as overstretched systems — especially with scale[00:58:00] Social media companies as a case of toxic organisational harm[01:01:00] Retweet buttons, algorithms and unintended consequences[01:02:00] Finalising the book and expanding it to include social media[01:03:00] New project: The US executive branch as a potentially toxic organisation[01:05:00] Conclusion and final reflections

How can we prevent violence against women?  And what role do men who don't engage in violence, have to play?This episode tackles a serious, but important topic.  Violence against women affects millions worldwide, yet too often, the focus is placed on how women can protect themselves rather than addressing the behaviors and systems that enable violence in the first place. This isn’t a problem women can solve alone—society as a whole, and particularly men, need to be part of the solution. But how do we move from awareness to meaningful change?Episode SummaryOn this episode, I sit down with Amy Watson, the founder of HASSL, an organization dedicated to tackling the root causes of female harassment and violence against women.We explore the traditional responses to these issues, why they fall short, and what needs to change. Amy shares her personal experiences that led her to launch HASSL and how her entrepreneurial mindset is driving her mission.We discuss how Amy is using a business model, rather than a charity, to fund and scale her impact. She explains her five-stage strategy, which includes education, community engagement, and innovative reporting technology designed to make it easier for victims to seek justice.She also highlights the importance of engaging men in the conversation, not as part of the problem, but as critical allies in creating safer spaces.Beyond the specifics of violence against women, this conversation offers lessons for anyone interested in advocacy, making a difference, or building a business with a social purpose.Amy’s story is one of determination, strategic thinking, and the belief that real change is possible when we tackle problems at their root.Guest BiographyAmy Watson is the founder of HASSL, a newly launched organization dedicated to addressing the root causes of harassment and violence against women. With a background in entrepreneurship and a degree focused on business innovation, Amy has always been drawn to projects that combine social impact with business acumen.Before launching HASSL, she worked as the COO of a health tech startup, where she honed her skills in building and scaling a mission-driven company. Her experience of being harassed in broad daylight—and the realization that no one stepped in to help—was the catalyst for founding HASSL.Rather than relying on traditional awareness campaigns, Amy is focused on using a business model to fund long-term solutions, including workplace training, school education programs, and cutting-edge reporting technology.She has rapidly grown a strong community, with over 250,000 social media followers and an ambassador network of 650+ individuals dedicated to making society safer for women.AI Generated Timestamped Summary [00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and why this conversation is essential.[00:01:00] Why violence against women is not just a women's issue—it's a societal issue.[00:02:00] Introduction to guest Amy Watson and the mission of HASSL.[00:03:00] Amy’s background in entrepreneurship and social impact.[00:06:00] The personal experience that led Amy to start HASSL.[00:09:00] Why traditional solutions focus too much on reaction rather than prevention. [00:12:00] The role of governments vs. private initiatives in solving societal issues.[00:15:00] The business strategy behind HASSL and why it’s structured as a social enterprise.[00:17:00] The importance of bootstrapping and keeping control over the mission. [00:21:00] The five-stage plan for HASSL’s growth and impact.[00:26:00] The broader implications of addressing harassment beyond public spaces. [00:29:00] The messaging strategy—why starting with strong advocates is key. [00:35:00] Understanding the spectrum of male allyship and how to shift behavior.[00:40:00] The challenge of balancing strong messaging with accessibility. [00:47:00] Addressing the “not all men” argument and why it misses the point.[00:56:00] Why men need to be part of the solution, not just observers. [01:02:00] The importance of scalable advocacy and shifting the messaging over time. [01:07:00] How workplace training can engage people who might not otherwise listen.[01:12:00] The need for a more inclusive and engaging approach to education. [01:20:00] Final thoughts on what needs to change and how listeners can help.LinksHassl website - www.hassl.uk

What does tea have to do with human behaviour? A lot more than you might think.  On this epusoed, I'm exploring one of the world's most popular drinks and what we can learn from it.SummaryMy guest is Giles Oakley, a professional tea taster, entrepreneur, and long-time friend. Giles began his career at Tetley before co-founding Two Spoons Tea, a company dedicated to celebrating tea as the hero crop it is.Over the course of our conversation, Giles introduces me—and you—to the rich history and intricate science behind tea. From its origins in Camellia sinensis to the skill of blending, he reveals why tea is far more complex than we often think.Giles takes us behind the scenes of tea tasting and blending, offering fascinating insights into how colour, flavour, and texture are meticulously evaluated. We even do a live tea tasting during the episode! Along the way, Giles shares incredible stories, from the history of tea pillows to the traditions of tea production in Kenya and Darjeeling. His passion for elevating tea is contagious, and it shines through in the ethos of his company.Whether you’re a casual tea drinker or a full-on enthusiast, this episode has something for you.Learn about the art of crafting consistent tea blends, the delicate balance of tradition and innovation, and the personal philosophy that drives Giles’ business. And of course, don’t forget to grab a cup of your favourite brew while you listen—it’s the perfect pairing.Guest BiographyGiles Oakley is a professional tea taster and co-founder of Two Spoons Tea, a company devoted to celebrating tea as a hero crop.After starting his career at Tetley in 1998, Giles spent over 20 years in the tea industry, travelling the world and mastering the art of tea tasting and blending. With expertise honed in places like Kenya, India, and Malawi, Giles eventually decided to step away from corporate life and create his own tea brand.Two Spoons Tea focuses on high-quality, ethically sourced blends that honour the social and cultural importance of tea. Giles and his business partner Mark, are committed to using their tea-tasting expertise to provide customers with exceptional, sustainably sourced products.Their ethos revolves around making tea fun, accessible, and memorable while maintaining the highest standards of quality.AI Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction to tea as a topic and Giles Oakley as the guest[00:01:00] Giles’ journey into the tea trade and the importance of tea in daily life[00:03:00] Tea’s global impact and its complex journey from bush to cup[00:06:00] How blending creates consistency in tea flavours[00:08:00] The art and science of tea tasting, including blindfolded tastings[00:11:00] Why tea is an underrated hero crop and its social significance[00:19:00] Starting Two Spoons Tea and building a company ethos[00:23:00] The difference between tea bags and tea pillows[00:27:00] Balancing tradition and innovation in the tea industry[00:32:00] Tea as a personal and cultural experience[00:43:00] Myths about tea, including caffeine content and hydration benefits[00:46:00] Ethical Tea Partnership and ensuring supply chain integrity[00:48:00] Giles’ most memorable cups of teaLinksTwo Spoons Tea websiteTwo Spoons Tea InstagramEthical Tea PartnershipCamellia sinensis plantEpisodes of the show featuring Professor Charles Spence on Sensory Perception and Sensehacking

How do we create systems that encourage whistleblowing without incentivizing malicious reporting? Should we reward whistleblowers financially? Why is closure important, both for whistleblowers and the organisations they are whistleblowing on? Episode SummaryOn this episode, I speak with Pav Gill, the whistleblower behind the Wirecard scandal and former General Counsel for Wirecard’s Asia Pacific operations. But this conversation isn’t about Wirecard. Instead, we explore the broader dynamics of whistleblowing—beyond high-profile scandals—focusing on the personal and organizational challenges of speaking up. Pav shares insights into what happens after a whistleblower comes forward, why some struggle to move on while others thrive, and how organizations can encourage reporting without creating perverse incentives. We discuss the psychological toll of whistleblowing, the role of incentives in encouraging disclosures, and the importance of closure—not just for individuals but for entire organizations. Pav also introduces the Confide Platform, his end-to-end whistleblowing platform designed to improve the process for both whistleblowers and companies. With experience as both a whistleblower and a compliance professional, he offers a unique perspective on making whistleblowing work for all stakeholders. Whether you work in compliance, risk, legal, or HR or are simply interested in ethical business practices, this episode will provide fresh insights into a complex topic. Guest BiographyPav Gill is the founder and CEO of The Confide Platform, a whistleblowing tool that streamlines the reporting and management of corporate misconduct. He gained prominence as the whistleblower behind the Wirecard scandal, exposing a multi-billion-dollar fraud that ultimately led to the company’s collapse. At the time, Pav was General Counsel for Wirecard’s Asia Pacific operations. His decision to speak out was instrumental in bringing the case to light. Beyond his whistleblowing experience, Pav is a legal and compliance expert with deep knowledge of corporate governance, risk management, and regulatory compliance. Before founding the Confide Platform, he held leadership roles, providing legal and strategic counsel in high-stakes corporate environments. His insights into whistleblowing—shaped by both personal experience and professional expertise—make him a leading voice on ethical corporate behaviour and whistleblower protections. 📌 Pav on LinkedIn: Pav Gill 📌 The Confide Platform: confideplatform.com AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00:00 - Introduction to Whistleblowing Beyond Wirecard (2 min)Christian introduces the episode, explaining that this discussion moves beyond the Wirecard scandal to explore the deeper dynamics of whistleblowing. The conversation examines the challenges of speaking up, the psychological toll, and how to encourage ethical disclosures while avoiding perverse incentives. 00:02:42 - Pav Gill’s Journey After Wirecard (4 min)Pav shares what he has been working on since exposing Wirecard, including founding Confide, an end-to-end whistleblowing platform. He explains why most reporting systems fail to address both the logistical and psychological aspects of whistleblowing. 00:06:25 - Why Whistleblowing Is More Than Just a Hotline (7 min)Christian and Pav discuss why many organizations see whistleblowing as a simple logistical issue—install a hotline, job done. Pav explains why it’s much more complex, requiring cultural shifts, psychological support, and credible processes that give employees confidence to report misconduct. 00:13:14 - The Fine Line Between Whistleblowing and Malicious Reporting (6 min)Pav challenges the traditional narrative of whistleblowers as heroes versus corporations as villains. He highlights real cases where people use reporting mechanisms for leverage rather than ethical reasons and explores how organizations can differentiate between genuine concerns and bad-faith claims. 00:19:30 - The Role of Incentives in Whistleblowing (5 min)We examine the controversial topic of financial rewards for whistleblowers. Pav advocates for rewarding genuine whistleblowers who suffer retaliation but warns against systems that create "honeypots" encouraging opportunistic reporting. The discussion highlights global inconsistencies in whistleblower reward schemes. 00:24:40 - Why Recognition Matters Beyond Financial Rewards (6 min)Pav emphasizes that whistleblowers need more than just monetary compensation—they need recognition. He discusses how official acknowledgments, career support, and public appreciation can make a difference in how society perceives those who speak up. 00:30:00 - The Stigma of Being a Whistleblower and Career Consequences (7 min)We discuss why many whistleblowers struggle to find jobs post-disclosure. Pav suggests that companies should rethink how they view whistleblowers, treating them as valuable truth-tellers rather than troublemakers. 00:37:00 - Should Companies Hire Whistleblowers? (5 min)Christian and Pav explore whether companies should actively hire former whistleblowers, similar to how the cybersecurity industry recruits ex-hackers. We discuss how organizations can harness whistleblowers’ skills while ensuring a constructive work environment. 00:44:00 - Corporate Closure: How Organizations Handle Reports (6 min)Pav highlights how companies often prioritize moving on from whistleblower cases without fully addressing the underlying issues. We discuss how organizations can achieve proper closure—for both the whistleblower and the company—without leaving unresolved tensions. 00:50:00 - Why Some Whistleblowers Become Angry and Bitter (7 min)Pav explains why some whistleblowers become embittered, often due to a lack of justice, continued corporate wrongdoing, or personal retaliation. He suggests that structured post-whistleblowing support could help individuals move on positively. 00:57:00 - Lessons for Compliance and Leadership (5 min)The conversation turns to what compliance leaders and business executives can learn from whistleblowing cases. Pav underscores the importance of designing systems that align with how people actually behave, rather than how companies wish they would behave. 01:02:00 - The Confide Platform: Building a Better Whistleblowing System (5 min)Pav explains how The Confide Platform seeks to fix the flaws in traditional whistleblowing platforms by ensuring accountability, psychological safety, and transparency. He discusses the platform’s features, such as audit trails and dynamic case management. 01:07:00 - Final Thoughts: The Future of Whistleblowing (3 min)Pav reflects on his journey, the lessons he has learned, and his mission to improve corporate ethics. We close with a discussion on how organizations can create environments where people feel safe speaking up. Related Podcast Episodes📌 Dan McCrum on Wirecard – Insights from his book Money Men 🎧 👉   Listen here📌 Zelda Perkins on NDAs – Her campaign to limit their use after breaking her NDA to expose Harvey Weinstein 🎧 👉   Listen here📌 Professor Ludmila Praslova on The Canary Code – How improving conditions for neurodiverse employees benefits everyone 🎧 👉   Listen here

Dr. Hemma Lomax, an ethics and compliance expert and former VP at Zendesk, discusses the transformative power of storytelling in corporate settings. She highlights the significance of curiosity in understanding human behavior, emphasizing its role in compliance and leadership. Hemma also explores her new podcast 'Unless', aimed at inspiring action through narratives. The conversation touches on personal transformation, the hero's journey, and the importance of fostering independent thinking in education and corporate environments.

How does a major global bank keep surviving crises; until it doesn't?Episode SummaryOn this episode, I’m joined by Duncan Mavin, author of Meltdown: Scandal, Sleaze, and the Collapse of Credit Suisse.Duncan’s book dives deep into the bank’s dramatic downfall, uncovering decades of mismanagement, scandals, and cultural clashes that eventually led to its collapse. As someone with intersecting touchpoints with Credit Suisse throughout my career, I couldn’t wait to have this conversation.During our discussion, we explore the intricate dynamics that defined Credit Suisse’s rise and fall, from Swiss banking secrecy laws to the revolving door of executives who struggled to fix a broken culture. Duncan shares eye-opening stories, including the mind-boggling choices made by individuals who valued short-term gains over long-term survival.This is more than just a tale of one bank’s failure—it’s a masterclass in understanding human behavior, organizational dynamics, and the systemic issues that plague the financial industry.Whether you’re a financial services expert or a curious observer, this episode will leave you questioning how much has really changed since the financial crisis.Guest BiographyDuncan Mavin is a financial journalist and author. Over his 20-year journalism career, Duncan has worked at renowned publications like The Wall Street Journal, where he served as Finance Editor for Europe, and Bloomberg News.Before becoming a journalist, Duncan spent a decade as a finance professional and accountant.His latest book delves into the story of Credit Suisse, a firm he became intimately familiar with through his reporting and his earlier book on the Greensill scandal.Duncan’s insightful analysis and gripping storytelling bring to life the human decisions and cultural dynamics that contributed to Credit Suisse’s collapse.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Welcome and Duncan’s background as a financial journalist.[00:01:00] How Duncan’s first book on Greensill led to Meltdown.[00:02:00] Credit Suisse’s litany of scandals and its survival against the odds.[00:06:00] Swiss banking secrecy laws and their unintended consequences.[00:08:00] Cultural clashes between Swiss and American banking styles.[00:15:00] The short-term thinking and CEO turnover at Credit Suisse.[00:25:00] Archegos and Greensill—critical moments in the bank’s collapse.[00:29:00] How social media accelerated Credit Suisse’s final downfall.[00:35:00] The reaction in Switzerland to the collapse and the book.[00:42:00] The ongoing legacy of Credit Suisse and lessons for banking.[00:50:00] Reflections on regulation and the future of financial services.LinksMeltdown - https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/duncan-mavin/meltdown/9781035037469Pyramid of Lies, Duncan's book on Greensill — https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/duncan-mavin/pyramid-of-lies/9781529088922Duncan on Twitter/X - https://x.com/dumavThe Swiss government report on the collapse of Credit Suisse: https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-103689.html

What can we learn about a country from its favourite sport?  A lot. Particularly when that country has a history and culture like Germany.  Which is what I'm exploring on this episode.Even if you're not a football fan, this episode — in a year when Germany goes to the polls — will have something of interest.Episode Summary On this episode, I speak with Kit Holden, a British-German journalist and author whose love for German football has led him to uncover the rich tapestry of stories behind the Bundesliga.Kit's perspective as an "insider, yet outsider" allows him to explore not just what happens on the pitch but also the cultural and societal dynamics that shape the game in Germany. From the legendary 50+1 ownership rule to the passionate fan culture that prioritizes community, we discuss what sets German football apart.Kit shares his experiences writing two books: Scheisse, We're Going Up, chronicling Union Berlin’s extraordinary journey from underdog to Champions League contender, and Played in Germany, a deep dive into how football reflects the soul of the nation.Our conversation delves into topics such as fan ownership, regional identities, and the challenges of maintaining tradition while engaging a global audience. Whether you're a football fanatic or a newcomer, this episode offers insights into the intersection of sport, society, and storytelling.We also explore Kit’s craft as a journalist, how his bilingual skills and cultural curiosity enable him to connect with fans, players, and club officials, and the lessons football can teach us about resilience and identity. With stories that span the Ruhr Valley to the rise of East German clubs, this episode will leave you with a newfound appreciation for the beautiful game and its deeper meanings.Guest Biography Kit is a British-German journalist and author based in Berlin. He covers German football for Der Tagesspiegel and AFP, and his work has appeared in The Guardian, The Athletic, and Die Zeit.Through his work, Kit explores how football reflects societal values, regional traditions, and the challenges of modern commercialization.AI-Generated Timestamp Summary(00:02) German Football Bundesliga and Fan CultureGerman Bundesliga's unique fan-focused ownership structure and its connection to regional identities explored by journalist Kit Holden.(08:03) Football Fan StoriesUnion Berlin's rise to success is a testament to the dedication of its fans and the power of community in sports.(17:09) East German Football Legacy and IdentityLeipzig's role in German football history divided past and present and challenging traditional values.(21:55) Uncovering German Regional Identities Through FootballStorytelling in journalism captures historical narratives, regional identities, and football culture in Germany and the UK.(29:22) German Football and National IdentityFootball in Germany connects with the past, regional identities, and post-war narrative while acknowledging and remembering its connections to the Nazi era.(32:50) Ultras in German FootballGerman football clubs have taken responsibility for their Nazi ties, with ultras playing a vital role in preserving fan power and resisting private equity investment.(38:21) German Football and Fan ParticipationGerman football clubs, ultras, and fans debate preserving traditional culture while remaining competitive in the global market.(43:03) Resilience and Tradition in German FootballFan culture, commercial interests, private equity, club identity, competitive vitality, local connections, football clubs, and supporters' identities.(49:30) German Football Clubs and Identity ReimaginedExamining Schalke 04's decline and its impact on Gelsenkirchen while exploring diverse matchday experiences in Bundesliga clubs like Union Berlin and HSV.LinksKit's first book Scheisse! We’re Going Up! about Union Berlin's extraordinary rise: https://www.duckworthbooks.co.uk/book/played-in-germany/His latest book Played in Germany: A Footballing Journey Through A Nation's Soulhttps://linktr.ee/playedingermany and https://www.duckworthbooks.co.uk/book/scheisse-were-going-up/Kit's journalistic profilesThe Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/author/kit-holden/The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/author/kit-holdenTagesspiegel (in German): https://www.tagesspiegel.de/autoren/kit-holdenA football fan's guide to German football: https://www.footballingermany.com/

What role does experimentation play in making big life and creative decisions? What lessons can podcasters teach us about effective communication in business?Show Summary To answer these questions, in this festive episode, I’m thrilled to welcome back two friends of the show, two of my favorite podcasters, Tim Houlihan and Kurt Nelson, co-hosts of the Behavioral Grooves podcast.Known for their brilliance in behavioral science and knack for experimentation, Tim and Kurt bring unique insights into podcasting, creativity, and decision-making. Together, we dive into their individual projects and collective experiments that push the boundaries of podcasting.Tim shares his personal behavioral experiment—searching for a new home through a disciplined, satisficing approach. He reveals the challenges and joys of balancing criteria while navigating the stress of decision-making. Meanwhile, Kurt and Tim reflect on their podcasting journey, exploring creative formats like episodic series and Groove Jams.They also discuss how podcasting can be a powerful tool for internal corporate communication, offering insights into storytelling and audience engagement.This conversation is packed with reflections on experimentation, the value of adaptability, and how behavioral science can improve our personal and professional lives.Whether you're a fan of behaviorual science, a podcast enthusiast, or someone looking for fresh perspectives, this episode will inspire and entertain.Guest BiographiesTim Houlihan is a seasoned behavioral science communicator. He brings years of expertise in applying behavioral insights to real-world challenges, focusing on decision-making, innovation, and communication.Kurt Nelson is a behavioral scientist with a passion for leveraging psychology to inspire better outcomes in business and life. Known for his engaging storytelling, Kurt brings deep knowledge of behavioral principles to both podcasting and corporate consulting.Both of them co-host the fabulous BeSci podcast, Behavioral Grooves, has become a go-to resource for exploring behavioral science concepts through fascinating interviews and creative formats. With over 450 episodes, they continue to redefine the podcasting space.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary(02:00) - Tim's Behavioural Science Experiment of where he should live(11:32) - Decision-Making and Satisfaction in Housing(17:26) - Navigating Choices (21:21) - The Power of Corporate Podcasting(35:01) - Effective Communication in Organizations(47:08) - Exploring the Evolution of Behavioural Science Podcast Mini-series(55:47) - Selecting Podcast Guests(59:18) - Building Genuine Connections Through Podcasting(01:07:23) - Future Plans for Behavioral Grooves Podcast(01:13:24) - Behavior Shift with an 'f'(01:22:53) - Impact of Behavioural Science ApplicationsLinksBehavioral Grooves podcast: https://behavioralgrooves.com/Their first ever Groove Jam with me! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/historys-biggest-what-ifs/Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-houlihan-b-e/Kurt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtwnelson/Hartmut Rosa's book Resonance - https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=resonance-a-sociology-of-our-relationship-to-the-world--9781509519897Google's Notebook LLM whcih produces an AI-generated 'podcast' summary of documents: https://notebooklm.google/

What does a pink puppet called Connie have to do with ethics? More than you might think. On this episode, I'm speaking with a lawyer, whose innovative approach to getting employees to engage in ethics, involved turning to something we all know from our childhood, a puppet.Episode SummaryThat lawyer and my guest on this episode is Fraser Simpson, Associate General Counsel at the Wellcome Trust.  He's on the show to me to tell me about a creative and award-winning approach to embedding ethics in organisations. Fraser and the team at Acteon Communications tackled the challenge of inspiring ethical decision-making in a world where written policies often fall short. Their solution? Connie, a hot pink puppet who represents a conscience, prompting employees to ask, "What would Connie do?" Fraser shares how Connie was born from a need to engage employees in meaningful, human-centred conversations about ethics and compliance. We delve into why traditional approaches often fail, how behavioural science can transform organisational cultures, and why creativity is a powerful tool for behaviour change. Whether you’re in legal, compliance, or simply curious about innovation in professional settings, Fraser’s insights are both practical and inspiring. Throughout our conversation, Fraser illustrates the power of storytelling, humour, and simplicity in sparking conversations that matter. Connie’s journey—from a sketch to a living, breathing character—offers lessons for anyone trying to make complex ideas relatable and impactful.Guest BiographyFraser is the Associate General Counsel at the Wellcome Trust, one of the world’s largest charitable foundations supporting science to tackle urgent health challenges. Fraser’s work that we discuss on the show focuses on developing a business integrity framework that empowers employees to make sound decisions in moments that matter.With a background in law and a passion for creativity, Fraser has pioneered innovative approaches to compliance, including the development of Connie, a hot pink puppet that embodies ethics and inspires employees to think critically.He describes himself as a dad of two first and a lawyer second, drawing on everyday challenges and creativity to influence his professional work.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary of Key Points[00:00:02] Innovative Ethics Solution (14 Minutes)Fraser introduces Connie, a bright pink puppet created to make ethics training engaging and memorable. By using behavioural science, Wellcome Trust demonstrates the power of moving from dry rulebooks to fostering value-driven decisions. [00:14:05] Revolutionizing Ethics Engagement (8 Minutes)The importance of using creativity to influence ethical decision-making, rather than over rigid rules, focusing on empowering employees with adaptable tools. Fraser explains how storytelling helps make ethics relatable and impactful. [00:21:50] Bringing Connie to Life (13 Minutes)Fraser shares the playful inspiration behind Connie’s creation, including how a Hetty vacuum cleaner sparked the idea and how he worked with Acteon, a behavioural science-driven agency. Connie balances humour and professionalism to spark meaningful conversations. [00:34:32] Communicating Ethics Through Creativity (11 Minutes)The Compliance team has considered how to deploy multi-sensory strategies, such as tactile tools and music, to make ethics training more engaging. These creative methods integrate ethics seamlessly into employees' daily routines. [00:45:05] Launching Connie and Sustaining Engagement (6 Minutes)Connie’s debut redefines compliance training by prioritising empowerment over box-ticking. Strategies like in-person meetings and digital tools ensure Connie stays relevant across the organisation. [00:50:51] Encouraging Ethical Conversations (14 Minutes)Fraser discusses innovative training approaches, such as regular ethical dilemmas and the "What Would Connie Do?" framework. These quick, consistent exercises develop decision-making skills and foster lasting habits. [01:04:50] Balancing Compliance and Personal Accountability (12 Minutes)The conversation highlights the importance of personal agency in decision-making. By promoting thoughtful judgment, the approach helps create a culture of accountability and better choices. [01:16:23] Inclusive and Accessible Communication (12 Minutes)Inclusivity is central to the approach adopted by Wellcome, including the deployment of a Braille Code of Conduct and other accessible formats. Fraser explains how Wellcome developed practical tools, like a mobile app, for use in critical moments. [01:28:34] Connie’s Global Reach and Future Potential (10 Minutes)Connie’s cross-cultural appeal in compliance training is explored, along with the vision of e-Connie—a virtual companion for ethical decision-making on a global scale.LinksThe Wellcome Trust — https://wellcome.org/ Acteon, the firm that helped to design and develop Connie — https://www.acteoncommunication.com/ Acteon’s case study of Connie — https://www.acteoncommunication.com/case-studies/meet-connie-your-conscience/ Sarah Abramson of Acteon pitching the idea of Connie at ECEC, the 2024 European Compliance & Ethics Conference — https://youtu.be/iCf1CklbysQ?si=z5-Vt3xcC2loZLB1&t=1641 Sarah’s appearance on this podcast — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sarah-abramson-on-speaking-to-the-human/

Can you distill a complex concept into a single sketch? Jono Hey can and on this episode, he joins me to talk about Sketchplanations —a project that explains the world, one sketch at a time.SummaryI’ve been a long-time admirer of Jono’s work, which makes complex ideas accessible and engaging through simple, elegant sketches. We discuss how he manages to turn abstract or intricate concepts into visual explanations that resonate with so many people, while maintaining accuracy and nuance. Jono has a fascinating background in product design and UX, and he shares how his professional journey has influenced his approach to Sketchplanations. We dive into his creative process, discussing the challenges of staying true to his vision while balancing the pressure for commercial success. Jono opens up about the origins of his project, the tools he uses, and the philosophy that keeps him motivated after more than 900 sketches .We also explore the broader lessons that designers, educators, and anyone curious about the world can draw from Sketchplanations.From navigating the challenge of accuracy to embracing creativity in visual form, Jono’s insights are valuable for anyone looking to communicate ideas more effectively or understand the world a little better. Guest BiographyJono Hey is the creator of Sketchplanations—a series of sketches that aim to explain the world, one concept at a time. He has a rich background in product design and UX, having worked with various startups, including Nutmeg and Zen Educate, where he led UX, design, and product development. His passion project, Sketchplanations, has gained a wide audience due to its clear, engaging visuals that break down complex ideas into easily digestible formats. Beyond Sketchplanations, Jono has a PhD in product design and has worked across multiple industries, applying his expertise in design thinking and growth strategy. AI-Generated Timestamped Summary [00:00:00] Introduction to the show and Jono Hey's work [00:01:00] My admiration for Sketchplanations and Jono's mission [00:02:00] Jono’s background in product design and UX[00:04:00] What Sketchplanations are and how they began [00:06:00] Jono’s creative challenge and learning exercise [00:08:00] The eclectic nature of Sketchplanations topics [00:11:00] The balance between commercial success and staying true to his interests [00:13:00] How Jono chooses what to sketch and the role of curiosity [00:16:00] The process behind creating each Sketchplanation [00:19:00] Challenges of accuracy and oversimplification [00:22:00] The role of sketches as jumping-off points for further exploration [00:25:00] Staying motivated and balancing artistic integrity with audience feedback [00:29:00] Jono's analogy of a good teacher as a DJ for learning [00:33:00] The importance of timeless content and building a long-term project [00:37:00] Using sketches to connect different topics and foster curiosity [00:43:00] The constraints that shape Sketchplanations' format and identity [00:52:00] Keeping the creative process grounded in simplicity and accessibility [00:57:00] Jono’s decision to allow open use of Sketchplanations for non-commercial purposes [01:01:00] The idea of building a community around freely accessible content [01:04:00] The Sketchplanations podcast, co-hosted by Jono, Rob Bell and Tom Pellereau, and what it offers listenersLinks Sketchplanations website:  www.sketchplanations.comSketchpanation podcast: https://podcast.sketchplanations.com/ Jono’s book ‘Big Ideas, Little Pictures: Explaining the world one sketch at a time’: https://sketchplanations.com/big-ideas-little-pictures The YouTube video Jono released to reflect what he’d learned from 900 Sketchplanations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8pWsaeRb8g Sketchplanations referred to on the show The Golden Circle: https://sketchplanations.com/the-golden-circleand the associated Sketchplanations pod episode: https://podcast.sketchplanations.com/the-golden-circle/ Herd Immunity: https://sketchplanations.com/herd-immunity The Olympic Flag: https://sketchplanations.com/the-olympic-flag The Solstice: https://sketchplanations.com/solstice The Moon Illusion: https://sketchplanations.com/the-moon-illusion The Swiss Cheese Model: https://sketchplanations.com/the-swiss-cheese-model Human Risk: https://sketchplanations.com/human-riskand the associatedSketchpanations pod episode: https://podcast.sketchplanations.com/human-risk-with-christian-hunt/