The Human Risk Podcast James Healy on BS at Work (Bullshit & Behavioural Science)
Sep 27, 2025
01:04:46
Why do so many workplaces run on bullshit processes and procedures? And how might Behavioural Science help resolve them?
Episode Summary
In this episode, I sit down with author, speaker and advisor James Healy to explore his book BS at Work — and the everyday nonsense we all recognise inside organisations.
James argues that while behavioural science has transformed public policy and consumer behaviour, workplaces have lagged behind. We dig into why leaders keep choosing rituals over results, why nobody seems to ask “does this actually work?”, and how our search for simple answers can make complex systems worse.
I ask James to unpack some of his favourite stories, including the strange origins of the DISC personality test — created by Wonder Woman’s inventor, complete with “dominance” and “submission” baked in — and the utterly self-parodying experience he had with e-learning about not cheating on e-learning. 😳
We talk context vs. character, box-ticking vs. behaviour change, and why “I don’t know” is often the most honest answer in big organisations. We finish on what to do instead. James doesn’t offer commandments — he offers principles that sometimes even contradict each other, because context matters.
Together we make the case for designing environments that make the desired behaviours easier, embracing complexity with humility, and asking better questions — especially when a shiny quick fix is on the table.
GUEST BIO
James is an author, speaker and executive advisor who applies behavioural science to organisational problems — with a mission to make workplaces more human. He's also the Founder and Managing Director of The Behaviour Boutique and host of The B-Word podcast,
AI-GENERATED TIMESTAMPED SUMMARY
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:03:00] James’s path: economics → philosophy → Kahneman & Tversky lightbulb.
[00:06:00] The question James asks in orgs: “Does anybody think this will work?”
[00:09:00] The missing third answer: “I don’t know” — and why nobody measures impact.
[00:10:30] Why people stick with accepted rituals; self-preservation beats candour.
[00:13:30] The book’s stance: no silver bullets; principles, not commandments.
[00:16:00] Personality tests & categories; the DISC backstory via Wonder Woman.
[00:20:00] Humans on continua, not binaries; our craving for neat boxes.
[00:23:00] Complexity rising; we cling harder to simplicity and widen the gap.
[00:24:30] The brain’s connectome as humility check; limits of two-by-two thinking.
[00:27:00] Context > character; orgs try to “fix the individual” instead of the system.
[00:29:00] Mixed signals: “be collaborative” vs. incentives and spaghetti systems.
[00:34:00] AI and magical thinking; processes are simple “except for all the ways they’re not.”
[00:41:00] Call-centre scripts vs. common sense — when design defeats judgment.
[00:45:00] Purpose theatre: the Greggs poster and the risk of making things worse.
[00:51:00] The e-learning about not cheating on e-learning; incentives and signals.
[00:55:00] “Do something” bias (Geldof); why activity ≠ effectiveness in orgs.
[01:00:00] Failure as feature; thinking critically beats imported “models.”
[01:01:00] Book and podcast details; where to find James.
LINKS
James on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-healy-behaviour-boutique
James' website for his business The Behaviour Boutique: https://thebehaviourboutique.com/
James' Book BS At Work: Why so much of modern work is bullshit and how behavioural science can make it better - https://www.amazon.co.uk/BS-At-Work-bullshit-behavioural/dp/0646719173?ref_=ast_author_dp
James' Podcast The B Word - https://thebehaviourboutique.com/podcast/
Episode Summary
In this episode, I sit down with author, speaker and advisor James Healy to explore his book BS at Work — and the everyday nonsense we all recognise inside organisations.
James argues that while behavioural science has transformed public policy and consumer behaviour, workplaces have lagged behind. We dig into why leaders keep choosing rituals over results, why nobody seems to ask “does this actually work?”, and how our search for simple answers can make complex systems worse.
I ask James to unpack some of his favourite stories, including the strange origins of the DISC personality test — created by Wonder Woman’s inventor, complete with “dominance” and “submission” baked in — and the utterly self-parodying experience he had with e-learning about not cheating on e-learning. 😳
We talk context vs. character, box-ticking vs. behaviour change, and why “I don’t know” is often the most honest answer in big organisations. We finish on what to do instead. James doesn’t offer commandments — he offers principles that sometimes even contradict each other, because context matters.
Together we make the case for designing environments that make the desired behaviours easier, embracing complexity with humility, and asking better questions — especially when a shiny quick fix is on the table.
GUEST BIO
James is an author, speaker and executive advisor who applies behavioural science to organisational problems — with a mission to make workplaces more human. He's also the Founder and Managing Director of The Behaviour Boutique and host of The B-Word podcast,
AI-GENERATED TIMESTAMPED SUMMARY
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:03:00] James’s path: economics → philosophy → Kahneman & Tversky lightbulb.
[00:06:00] The question James asks in orgs: “Does anybody think this will work?”
[00:09:00] The missing third answer: “I don’t know” — and why nobody measures impact.
[00:10:30] Why people stick with accepted rituals; self-preservation beats candour.
[00:13:30] The book’s stance: no silver bullets; principles, not commandments.
[00:16:00] Personality tests & categories; the DISC backstory via Wonder Woman.
[00:20:00] Humans on continua, not binaries; our craving for neat boxes.
[00:23:00] Complexity rising; we cling harder to simplicity and widen the gap.
[00:24:30] The brain’s connectome as humility check; limits of two-by-two thinking.
[00:27:00] Context > character; orgs try to “fix the individual” instead of the system.
[00:29:00] Mixed signals: “be collaborative” vs. incentives and spaghetti systems.
[00:34:00] AI and magical thinking; processes are simple “except for all the ways they’re not.”
[00:41:00] Call-centre scripts vs. common sense — when design defeats judgment.
[00:45:00] Purpose theatre: the Greggs poster and the risk of making things worse.
[00:51:00] The e-learning about not cheating on e-learning; incentives and signals.
[00:55:00] “Do something” bias (Geldof); why activity ≠ effectiveness in orgs.
[01:00:00] Failure as feature; thinking critically beats imported “models.”
[01:01:00] Book and podcast details; where to find James.
LINKS
James on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-healy-behaviour-boutique
James' website for his business The Behaviour Boutique: https://thebehaviourboutique.com/
James' Book BS At Work: Why so much of modern work is bullshit and how behavioural science can make it better - https://www.amazon.co.uk/BS-At-Work-bullshit-behavioural/dp/0646719173?ref_=ast_author_dp
James' Podcast The B Word - https://thebehaviourboutique.com/podcast/